Model Engine Maker
Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: J.L. on April 26, 2020, 07:57:04 PM
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On page two of this forum's Vehicles & Models category, I wrote a 17 page thread of the iconic Japanese 2-8-2 locomotive and tender.
It was a significant build with brass, steel and cast metal parts. DeAgostini Model Space company is based in London, England. Although the parts were made in China, they were machined and cast to the British company's specifications.
The product was of the highest quality. Even the instruction booklets were offset printed on quality glossy paper.
Things have changed. The quality is still there with the C57 parts that I am going to assemble here, but like most companies, the instrucitons are to be downloaded by the consumer. A sign of the times.
Here is a sample D51 booklet that came with the kit and the title page of the first downloaded set of instructions for the C57, printed off my computer.
The engines are similar, so this thread will be significantly shorter.
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Unlike the D51, which was shipped in brass with the option of being painted, the C57 is factory painted black.
I'll just bet you the company realized that a black engine would be preferred over presentation brass.
I must say the painted C57 parts are beautifully done. They look very professional. They may have even been heated with a black powder coating.
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Great to see that you grant us the privilege of a glimpse of your journey on this one too :praise2:
I believe that this one will have a lot of followers too - like all your previous builds here :cheers:
Best wishes - more :popcorn:
Per
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:cartwheel: Looking forward to this!
I had completely missed that thread on the 2-8-2 (back when I wasn't on the forum for a while).
Wonderful thread.
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Thank you fellows. You have given me a lift in these hard times. I am still dealing with health issues that may have consequences.
Your kind words lift my spirits.
Admiral_dk, may I call you Per? Sorry, that name is unfamiliar to me. You have been very positive and kind in your posted comments.
John
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John,
Looking forward to following you on this build too! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Sorry to hear about the health issues :(
Kim
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You are very welcome John and yes, my given name is Per - this i a Scandinavian short version of the French Pierre - though there are also differences.
In Norway they have the Danish Per and the slightly longer Peer almost pronouced the same way and also the Swedish Par and Pär and if memory serves the Finnish version is Paar. I have encountered a few North Germans named Per or Peer and that is as far as I know the geographical area where my given name and it's derivatives are used.
All the versions shows how language morphs over distance and time :old:
Best wishes
Per
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Thank you Per for the explanation. Very interesting. I have leaned something new this morning.
Thanks Kim. Yes, health is a concern at this time. But considering what the world is facing, my worries are minor.
It is so refreshing to be working on parts that are cast with great precision. This smokebox front plate is perfectly round. I do not have to use a wood rasp to file away white metal to make a hole concentric! :disappointed:
Notice also that the lugs for the upper and lower hinges are cast with the ring. The part came with steel hinge pins already set into the hinge straps as well. On the D51, you had to cement the hinges into holes in the smokebox ring yourself.
I think the D51 was designed first and then improvements were built into this follow-up C57 model.
Most impressed. :ThumbsUp:
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The smokebox...
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Did you buy the whole kit or are getting it in installments?
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Good question.
All 12 packs were bought at the same time. Many have found that once a month just ties them up. Some packs can be made in days.
John
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Here is Stage 3 of the build. It seems rather peculiar to be assembling the first driving wheels and coupling rods this early in the build, but I am following the instruction sheets step by step.
Again, the quality of the. parts is evident. Look at that nice little machined brass bush and the black shoulder bolt. You will also note the texture of the paint on the wheels. :)
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A question was asked about how the kit was ordered. I've finished Pack One in two days!
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I have mentioned before about how fastidious DeAgostini is about their packaging. Fortunately in this country we have plastic recycling.
Every part is placed in a special well molded to its shape. These five photos show just how careful they are with the parts. Even the plastic cover is molded to the shape of the wells (photo 1)
All bolts come in a little baggy and have their own well. (photo 2)
In this pack, front deck parts overlap, so tissue paper is used to separate them to prevent scratches in the finish. (photos 3& 4).
A far cry from throwing parts in a bag.
P.S. The company anticipates the possibility of loosing a bolt here or there. One extra bolt is always
added to number of bolts required. This is true for every bag of bolts provided.
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I was extremely impressed with the quality of the D51 parts, but this is even better - if not for any other reasons, then the paint job certainly ups the ante :ThumbsUp: :praise2:
I think you are enjoying it even more John - but you also pays the bill, so that's only fair ;) :cheers:
Per
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Yes Per, I am enjoying this build very much.
There are some interesting constructions on the front deck.
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Hi John,
It is so very good to see you back again and enjoying another build! I haven't really been active on the Forum and only just noticed your new effort.
As you point out the quality of everything to do with these kits is outstanding. I'll be following along and admiring the work.
Regards, David
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Hello David,
Very nice to hear from you. Thank you for your compliments. It will be great to have you 'aboard'. We'll ride this locomotive right into its display case!
A distinctive difference between the C Class engines and the D class engines is the location of the feedwater heater tank.
On the photo of an actual D class engine and the photo of the D51 model, it is located on top of the smokebox behind the headlight.
On the C57 it is tucked down under the lower deck. I suppose I could have painted its mounting straps white.
I like the grab bars on this engine's lower deck.
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Assembling the frame thus far completes the assembly of parts in Pack 3.
There are 12 packs in the entire build.
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I mentioned that it is a good thing clear plastic is being recycled.
Here is a set of wheels set into deep plastic wells for safe shipping.
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I read somewhere that wheel size determined the tasks given to various engines. Correct me if I'm wrong. Eight drive wheels of the D51 are all of the same small size. These engines were put to use hauling freight.
The six larger drive wheels of the C57 gave a softer ride and were used on passenter lines.
But look at the difference in these photos. The C57 wheels are as large as the D51's cab!
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Speaking of wheels, here is an example of fine work. :ThumbsUp:
DeAgostini also carries a line of metal vehicles. I'm sure the VW and the 'Hippie' VW camper van would be models of high quality as well.
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Larger wheels mean faster speed for the same RPM. Softness of ride depends on the quality of the track and the suspension in the passenger cars. The tractive effort of a locomotive is higher with smaller driving wheels as they make the angle of the conrods smaller. This is important as freight trains are much heavier than passengers trains.
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Thank you kvom for this explanation.
I must apologize. I have forgotten your actual first name. You have offered many constructive comments on my threads. For this, I thank you.
John
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First name is Kirk. If you could make it, the Japanese railway museums in Kyoto and Saitama both have collections of Japanese steam locos. The Kyoto museum has both a C57 and D51 on display as well as a dozen or so others. Saitama has a C57. Both these museum are well worth visiting for any railfan.
While the Shinkansen trains in japan are standard gauge, these pre-war locomotives used a narrower gauge (3' 6").
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Thank you Kirk.
Again,very informative information.
Cheers...John
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I have learned so much about the engineering involved in providing a suspension system for these engines that will compensate for any conditions in the railbed. I think the detail that went into making the parts for this model is what makes me enjoy building it so much.
The whole system would appear to 'float', but it is all carefully designed to be strong and robust. I appreciate the amount of work that went into designing, testing and refining it over the years.
This is probably 'old hat' for those on this site who make locomotives from scratch, but here is how I see it working.
The wheel axle rotates in an axle box that is fastened to leaf springs above. But because the wheels are fastened to the axles on this model, the axle box is split so that it can be clamped around the axle in two pieces. This axle box slides up and down in a track and is held in place being bolted to the leaf springs above.
The leaf springs have straps that come down to equalizing bars that pivot in the middle. On the model, each pivot point is fastened with a bolt running through a 4.5mm long brass bush. Each end of the straps are also bushed.
I went through all this with the other engine, but the penny really dropped for me when I stopped to study the action of the parts more carefully on this model.
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The result...
Note:
The model is sitting on a piece of micro fibre cloth I borrowed from my wife. I quickily discovered that it has an affinity for small, often lost parts. So if you are assembling something with a host of very small items, try using one. It will not only cushion your work, but save you a lot of time crawliong around on the floor looking for little parts with a flashlight. It grabs little nuts and bolts like a magnet!
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I'm really enjoying this build John. :ThumbsUp: I'm also amazed at the quality of the kit. I noticed on the manufacturer's website that it's sold out.
Jim
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Thank you Jim. I must apologize for not keeping an eye on what you are about on the site. Will correct that.
The three wheels are now commected. No drive system hooked up yet, but getting the three links together required care. There are brass bushings of different sizes involved in securing the bolts to the wheels and central pin.
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Thank you Jim. I must apologize for not keeping an eye on what you are about on the site. Will correct that.
John............you haven't missed much lately on my PMR #5 build. I've been distracted, but am determined, in the near future, to at least give the can a small kick down the road.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
There is a lot going on these days to distract indeed!
The piston rod can be seen going into the cylinder and being held in place on the motion bar by the crosshead. The connectiong rod is fastened to the crankpin on the center wheel. So it's the drive wheel. But the actual drive from the motor on this engine will be from the third wheel with a worm gear.
On an Occre Adler locomotive and tender model built recently, the model could optionally powered by a motor mounted in the tender.
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Assembling the valve gear meant following the illustrated diagrams religiously. Several times links had to be removed, turned over or reversed and put back together again.
How in the world did the engineers of the early steam slide valve operating systems keep them in good working order? Boggles the mind.
Parts include: expansion links, radius rods, hanging links, connecting links, combination levers, and most importantly, piston valve spindles.
Also,many parts on the model were attached together with slot headless 2 x 3.6mm set screws. :insane:
Good challenge.
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The valve gear is in place.
In the last photo, you will see the two piston rods in action; one being driven forward, the other being pulled back by the linkage - representing being acted upon by the double action of a steam valve.
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The quality is amazing. Makes me want one.
I certainly enjoy following your thread.
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"How in the world did the engineers of the early steam slide valve operating systems keep them in good working order? Boggles the mind."
John, that is why almost every time the train stopped for any time, someone was out with an oil can and grease bucket!
Though you had to print the instructions, it looks very much like the quality is on par with the other locomotive you did.
You are doing your usual masterful job with this one as well.
Cheers
Tom
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Too bad they're out of stock...............I'm thinking they'd sell a few just from this excellent build thread.
Jim
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Thank you fellows for the kind comments.
I just discovered something yesterday. I've been calling this a 2-6-2 engine.
It's not! :-[
It is a 4-6-2 engine. How do I know? Well, when I started looking more closely at the instructions, I noticed a large mount for the leading truck. Four wheels!
It's a wonder somebody didn't trip me up on this glaring error.
I appreciate the engineering that went into its design. I guess as the engine rounds a sharp curve, the front truck, being so long would have to pivot in a special way. They made provision for this by having a moveable pivot point. Four links allow the pivot mount to slide back and forth.
I've never seen this type of pivot point before. Very clever.
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The leading truck is a nice little model in itself.
It would be a wonderful child's toy! :)
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The locking bar for the door is now in place.
I like the lens for the headlight. It has vertical striated lines with a lens in the center. The light is LED.
When I looked down the chimney the other day, I saw a shiny aluminum disk. Oops! I forgot to paint the floor of the spark arrestor. So the plan is to drop a few drops of PVA glue down the chimney and give the wet glue a shot of graphite. Instant soot! :D
The two bands around the tank do need some colouring. Hopefully, I can slip a piece of paper between the bands and the walls of the tank as masking and paint the bands either white or brass. We'll see what Google can come up with when C57 pictures are found.
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One of the disadvantages of gluing delicate parts onto a painted surface is that the glue may not stick or that if may mar the surface of the paint. I read recently that hand lotion will remove the white residue left by CA glues. :shrug: Epoxies smear and leave a shine.
Well, these instructions mention synthetic rubber adhesive and multi purpose adhesives. I'm not sure about the first one, but I did find a water based All-Purpose Adhesive that was fast drying and fast tacking. It's called Quick Dry Tacky Glue by Aleene's.
It goes on like white PVA and leaves a mess at first. But with a wet Q-tip it dissolves instantly and the wetmess is removed quickly with a dry Q-tip. Best of all, there is no streaking left from the clean-up. :ThumbsUp:
The grab rails around the smokebox door were attached this way. The stauntions were very tiny and the curved grab rod had to pass through their tiny holes and be glued in place.
Worked like a charm.
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Great tip about the glue, John :ThumbsUp:
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Hi Per,
You are very welcome.
Although the tacky glue is very easy to apply and clean up, it is not as strong as CA or epoxy. I notice in some places, the instructions suggest backing it up on a hidden side with these stronger glues. For example, on the inside of a tube where the part comes through, but its lug will not be seen when CA glue is added. With the more forgiving tacky glue, you also have time to adjust the part carefully knowing that any glue left about by sliding the part around to fit properly can be easily cleaned up.
I've also noticed that because the glue is tacky, you can put a bit of it on the end of your finger and set a nut into it. The nut stays in place as you reach inside something to find a mating bolt and acts somewhat like thread locker. ;)
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I'm on a roll with suggestions today. ;)
I notice that I'm leaving fingerprints all over the painted matt surface of the boiler walls. I tried using cotton gloves, but they were a pain.
But when I was placing painter's tape around boiler bands to hold them in place while I turned the model over to bolt the bands together, I noticed that when turned back over after finishing, removing the tape left a flawless matt surface.
Of course! Forensic investigators use tape all the time to removed fingerprints! :popcorn:
The yellow tape is less aggressive than the normal green tape. I now that because when I was asked in a paint store if I would be applying the masking tape over a painted surface or not. Since I was, they gave me the yellow tape instead of the green tape.
As an aside,I know that if you put an object in a sealed chamber, adding CA glue will reveal fingerprints. The CA vapours react with the oils on the print.
Of course, we all know that CA glue was invented for surgeries during the Korean War.
:embarassed:
Too much information.
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Notice in the photo above, the horrible paint job on the hand wheel. Acrylic paints just don't do the job. I've ordered enamel paint. I think the bolt head should also be painted brass.
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The smokebox, boiler and firebox are assembled.
A nice feature of having the parts pre-painted at the factory is that different finishes can be achieved. A satin finish is given to the boiler bands providing a nice contrast to the flat black surfaces of the boiler.
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Thanks for posting pictures of this build. I'm really enjoying following along with this.
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You are very welcome Steve. Posting photos of the progress is as much enjoyment for me as the build.
There are four gauges on the firewall or backhead as I believe it is called.
The guage faces came from the earlier Allerton Steam Pumper build. I found the template sheet still on the platen of the printer!
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Having built the D51, it is interesting to make comparisons between the models.
These three pictures show the clamshell firedoors on the D51. They operate to reveal a red LED light inside that represents a fire in the firebox.
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But because that option was not built into the C57, the doors of the firebox are cast as one.
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It might be simpler but it's still very detailed and I see small holes in the doors - so you could still have an LED behind them, if you wish .... :cheers: :popcorn:
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Hi Per,
Now that's a good thought. A LED light might be able to be spliced into the switch circuit.
However, It might be more complicated than that. On the D51 there was a firebox with a circuit board. It let the light pulse like a real flame.
Nevertheless, a continuous red glow through those holes would work.
Food for thought.
John
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I have to jump ahead and finish the electronic work under the base so that I can turn the base over and have a safe place to put the engine's understructure before things are put together.
Battery power does not thrill me. I now have the more practical option of using an AC/DC 9 volt adaptor.
The speakers look impressive. The stereo whistle is great, but when I listened to the sound generator put out simulated train motion noises on the D51 I was very disappointed. It shounded like intermittant white noise. :-\
We'll see what this generator produces. I'm not holding my breath. It looks the same.
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The C57 was built with a stoker engine, so less need for clamshell firebox doors.
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Before you finish the electronics and base, you may wish to look at something like this-
https://evandesigns.com/products/fire-led-kit
Search for model flickering fire.
Walt
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Hi Walt,
Thank you very much for this link to lights that would work.
A line could be spliced into the 'Light' line so that when the toggle is thrown, the headlight and the flickering light showing through those little holes in the closed clamshell doors would also be on.
I'll check the site out carefully and see if they can send me one. Shipping could be triple the cost to me here in Canada.
Thanks again.
John
Edit: The shipping costs were four times the cost of the bulb.
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The presentation of the control panel is very nicely done.
Walt, I have ordered a red flat mounted LED wafer from Colorado.
Thanks again.
Two Fahnestock clips to the underside of the base have been added to connect the wire coming from the headlight, new firebox LED and the lead to the generator.
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A heavy hand was used when the parts of the engine and tender were factory painted. And that is understandable. But if you study photos of the real engines, or have machined brass parts for fittings, you realize that many parts on the black finish should be painted. The firebox pit for example is a rusty red, tender trim is white, all wheel handles are brass, etc.
Now, it takes time for enamel paint to dry when you touch up these parts and that ties up the model from furthur work.
I should use that time to start working on chores outside, but yesterday it snowed here!
So, I have jumped around a bit with other parts of the model that can be handled while those painted parts dry.
When I took this first shot of the tender's truck parts, I got the feeling that I was cheating on this Forum. I am in the company of master machinists here, and all I am doing is assembling beautifully parts already machined.
Kim, I thought of you and those 10 degree angles on your wheels you machined and how well you brought them to 3 degrees. Now that is machining, as well as all the other parts you are building from scratch. :ThumbsUp:
And you are not alone. The jaw drops when other threads are opened.
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Those are some nice looking wheels! And yes, looks like they have the 3o angle correct there :embarassed:
You're doing great work on this beautiful model, John!
Kim
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Thank you very much for the compliment Kim. Much appreciated.
Here are the two tender trucks. They have dumbed them down somewhat from some suspensions on the D51 (last photo), but still very nice.
The clearance holes on the joining members of these trucks caused the bolts to bind a bit. It's the first time I've ever had to take a part to the milling machine. Otherwise the fit and quality of parts has been impeccable.
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I'm still following in the background and enjoying :praise2: :wine1:
You mentioned having the drive motor in the tender. This used to be quite common before small electric motors were readily available and also allowed for the 'daylight' under the boiler. Some drove the tender wheels and others were connected to a worm on one of the main axles via a flexible shaft (piece of plastic tubing). Some very small model locomotives were pushed along by a motorised goods van. This is a tiny example from Busch:
http://www.busch-model.com/online/produktinfos/docs/anl12190.pdf
The track gauge is 6.5mm.
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Hello Roger,
Thank you for the information regarding the location of the drive systems for model trains and the interesting link. Kind of you to take the time to explain these.
I like the site you included.
In this photo, I'm holding the little plastic tube to which you are referring. On the D51, when I had a hang-up with the drive system, the torque of the motor actually twisted that little tube into a pretzel! Eventually, I replaced it with a brass coupling.
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There are three sand tubes on each side of the boiler shell. They would terminate at track width on actual engines, but for modelling purposes, they continue on and are clamped together at the botton of the boiler.
After the walkways are installed, clips will be added to make it appear as though they attach the tubes to the boiler wall.
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I'm sure working with sand could be a tricky job.
I wouldn't want to be climbing up those steps and standing on the platform with a bag of sand over my shoulder. The engineers must have had special containers and funnels they could use while opening the hatch (photo 2) and filling the sand dome.
I have not added the valve that opens the six sand tubes yet. It has a lever activated by a rod controlled in the cab. But opeining six tubes with a single valve puzzles me. Linkage woud have to connect all six ports and operate them all at once.
The sand would be dry due to the heat radiating from the boiler and would flow freely.
Another caution I would wonder about is having sand fly up off the rails randomly near wheels that are packed with grease. ::)
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Something new to me on this model are the cooling tubes.
At this point, I am finding it quite confusing which are left running board parts and which are right running board parts. The sides of the engine are not symetrical. When you open a pack, it's not a case of just applying them to say, the right side of the model. Some are set aside for the left side later on.
In some cases they may refer back to parts you have set aside four or five steps ago.
So, it goes without saying, that following the instructions is key to success here. It's a shame that they did not print the instructions in booklet form like they did on the last model. Reference to diagrams is a constant.
For me, I can't keep running to the computer for a quick look at the shape of a part to determine which end goes where. Being old school, the printed page is paramount for me.
Cannon has made money from me as I keep printing pages.
But who's complaining? This is a model with challenges but great rewards.
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Not sure how things were done in the far east but in the US, sanding towers were used. They were commonly found along with the coalling towers. Dry sand was carried to the top by conveyor or screw and discharged via a spout. Towers might be wood or, better, round metal containers. The metal helped keep the sand dry.s
Walt
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The sand would be applied only if the wheels were slipping, mainly at startup on wet or icy track.
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Looking good John.
I was wondering if they identify what some of these parts actually do or is it more just knowledge a person needs to have about locomotives?
Jim
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Thanks Kvom and Walt for information related to the use of sand.
Walt, I have never heard of a sand tower. Interesting.
Jim, no, I guess the assumption is that you know the function of each part listed in the instructions. However, it seems that the designers of the kit have been very diligent about replicating parts as closely to the oringinals as possible.
At the outset, the kit introduction tells the modeller that much can be learned and appreciated about these steam engines by building the model.
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My Father and Grandfather and Great Uncle were all locomotive engines on both steam and diesel engines. Sand is still used for traction. Not only on wet or icy rail but also more traction on grades and level ground with heavy loads. The outlet was closer to the rail for better placement and it wouldn't scatter upward. Air pressure was used to apply the sand. My father had a talent for precise movement of the engine and was requested when available to help at derailments. The wreck crews instead of hoisting up each car could crawl along the track and place wooden blocking to re-rail cars because my father could apply throttle and brake together with sand all in very small amounts to move the engine saving a great mount of time.
My grandfather gave me some pipe plugs when he retired. They were tapered wooden plugs about six inches long and had been lathe turned end to end only connected by the small parting off groove. When a pipe broke they would break off a plug and drive it in the open end of the break. Sometimes this was in a remote area and enabled them to continue. Steam engines also had a hose in case they ran low on water they could stop at a creek, river or pond and use the injector to fill the water tank or engine. In more dire situations they would call the local fire department to help fill up with water.
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At the outset, the kit introduction tells the modeller that much can be learned and appreciated about these steam engines by building the model.
Reminds me of the time, a number of years back, that I assembled a radio controlled helicopter model. It really helped me to understand the workings of a helicopter. I even learned to fly it..................sort of! :-\
Jim
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Thank you Shadlow for those personal accounts and relevant information. Appreciated.
Here is what the parts list call the Compressor with an attached regulator (?). It is well detailed with seven parts. I've turned it bottom up so that you can see the detailing on the compressor base (a separate part). Only would an engineer know the function of those mesheing parts and no viewer would ever see them. Again, it goes to show the detail taken in casting the parts.
I like the compressosr support. It is cast with two ribs and a curve to match the arc of the boiler wall behind it.
P.S. What ever happened to that helicopter Jim? Did it wind up in a neighbour's tree? ;D
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Air compressor is powered by steam, and the compressed air is used to operate the brakes.
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Okay, now it's starting to make sense. That air is hot. That's what the cooling tubes must be about.
I just discovered that an air reservoir is to added to the underside of the left running board and hooked up to the cooling tubes. :old:
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P.S. What ever happened to that helicopter Jim? Did it wind up in a neighbour's tree? ;D
No tree, but it did find a barb wire fence once. I was getting cocky and started learning how to do flips. Bad idea................I started doing a bunch of aerobatics without intending too...........right up to the time of finding the fence. :facepalm2: I still have the helicopter, but wouldn't even attempt to fly it anymore............... I prefer more sedate adventures nowadays. :)
Jim
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I'd like to see that helicopter Jim.
The water pump is also nicely detailed:
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So now I think I have it straight. The air compressor on the left passes gasses through the piping and is hooked up to its air reservoir. The tubing passes under the boiler and continues circulating air on the right side of the boiler as well.
The water pump is on the right side of the boiler, but not completely hooked up yet. It will have a water hydrant outlet in its piping.
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So now we come to a crashing halt. No more work can be done on the engine until the LED light wafer arrives from Colorado. The cab would prevent bolts from being tightened if the cab was installed now.
So it's on to the tender.
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The detail given to the baseplate of the tender is beyond belief. The engineers really had a field day with this one. And none if its detail will ever be seen. :praise2:
The baseplate itself is 1/8" of solid steel.Then there are two steel pressed metal beams running down the centre. Then there are four cast bolsters. Then there are two heavy cast edge beams. And to top it all off there are six angle iron girders fastened diagonally along the base.
The baseplate is also tapered towards the middle.
Now this is high end model engineering.
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That is quite an amazing model kit :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
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Agreed Roger. This company knows what it is doing.
I am surprised that it is not suggested anywhere that the trim of the tender walls be painted white. Particularly since great effort was undertaken to make white subplates for the running boards to exposse a white trim all along the engine.
So here we go again with the spray painting. You can see remnants of gold paint on the turntable from the boiler cover from the Steam Pumper Engine built earlier. The trim pieces are held in place with thin strips of masking tape.
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I tried to use that tacky glue I mentioned earlier in the thread. It is useful in some circumstances but here, it failed.
What was used here was CA glue carefully applied to the inside of the white trim strips. I was worried about excess amounts squishing out and ruining the finish of the painted walls. But a tiny amount applied with a toothpick seems to be working. We'll know when the clamps come off.
The tender is so black. When I see photos of the finished model, I feel that the eye stops at the cab of the engine. The tender is an afterthought.
But by painting the trim on the tender white, the eye continuse on to the back of the tender. This is very noticable on the D51 mounted in its case.
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Here is the basic tender before adding all the little details.
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It's not much to write home about, but unless a picture is taken of it now, it will never be seen again!
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Thank you Kim for your kind comments on your Kozo build. Carl, your comments are appreciated as well there.
The front of the tender has received its details minus the hookup gear. Interesting to see a sight gauge in the wall. The engineer could just turn around when standing in the cab and view the water level, even although the water portion of the tender is away at the back. Obviously, there must be a tube coming through the coal, perhaps along the wall, to connect with that gauge.
Kvom, you mentioned that the C57 was built with a stoker engine, so there was less need for clamshell firebox doors. Could you explain? This looks like a manual coal feed system. Am I missing something here?
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Hi John, at least in North America, most stoker equipped engines still had manual or air assist fire doors, in case the stoker broke down on the road. They frequently did, caused by normal mechanical issues / breakages but also by jamming with foreign objects like scrap wood and rock, or stray bolts / spikes . These would jam a stoker auger tight. If the fireman couldn't un-jam the auger, or get the stoker engine going again, the shovel was pulled out and the fire doors used to access the fire. Could be it was same scenario in Japan and other parts of the world.
Your engine and tender are coming along well! looking good! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Thank you for the compliment and thank you for the explanation.
Yes, on top of the meshing clamshell doors they have modellied an air cylinder.
John
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The firebox needed doors for other purposes that shoveling. When maintenance time came around one unlucky worker got to crawl inside.
The big american engines had nozzles using steam to blow the coal from the stoker auger into different areas of the grid. The fireman had an array of valves to control this.
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Yes unlucky.I can remember when working a summertime job at Quaker Oats in Peterborough where I was put into a swinging hoist chair and lowered into a feed bin three floors deep. I put my foot on a cross brace and shoved myself outward toward the edge of the bin with a stiff broom to knock off caked on material from its walls. At least I wasn't crawling around in a blackened, dirty firebox!
Here are two last views of this C57's tender.
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I took a quick shot of the electrics on ther bottom of the display board. You can see the 9 volt AC/DC adaptor that provides optional power to the black battery box.
I mentioned on the D51 site how disappointed I was with the sound effects of the engine running. The whistle was perfect with those two speakers, but the train sounds of the engine in motion were terrible. It sounds like intermittent white noise.
I see on the internet that there are sound generators you can purchase for steam engines, but I am reluctant to buy one because the whistle sound I have is perfect. It is the sound of rolling stock I am looking for.
We'll see...
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Before and after...
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That's some fascinating detail, John. What does all that apparatus do for the front wheels? Does it provide some 'steering' for them? move them to the left/right to follow the tracks? Or is it just suspension?
Kim
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What does all that apparatus do for the front wheels? Does it provide some 'steering' for them? move them to the left/right to follow the tracks? Or is it just suspension?
I see links for both purposes. One set does the suspension and another is connected in such a fashion as to turn the wheels when they are moved sideways by the track - I might still have missed something though.
I'm still enjoying the journey John :cheers:
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Good question Kim.
Per has hit the nail on the head. I am no engineer, but I see the main function of the setup as suspension. The truck also pivots, but the leaf spring is connected to the third wheel on each side.
I guess there will be a lot of weight to hold up and dampen the stresses that develop in the cab.
Thanks for asking.
John
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Located below the firebox is the ash box - a metal bender's work of art. :D
It will take 39 bolts to make and put it in place!
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In place...
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Shortly after taking the above shots of the ash bin, I brought the model upstairs from where I do my desktop photography and looked for a safe place to put it until the base is properly placed. I set it on the coffee table beside the Picket Boat.
Later, I looked at it while sitting at the work table and was struck by the size of the locomotive's undercarriage in relation to the ship.
Worth a photo. It's all about scale isn't it?
Cheers...John
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Interesting last picture and your comment about scale - it's not the same or is it ?
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Hi Per,
Very observant of you. Upon investigation, I was surprised to find that Cushing's Picket Boat #1 is the same scale as the C57 - 1:24.
Now that was a shock!
John
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Now that is a new take on a trailer boat! Or the start of a model of that rail lift that is (or once was) part of the canal that goes past Peterborough.
Seriously, an amazingly detailed model John, being built to your usual high standard, and most interesting to follow along.
MJM460
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Hi MJM460,
Not sure what to what you are referring, but Peterborough has the highest hydraulic lift locks in the world. But I'm afraid with Covid-19, there won't be that much tourism or water traffic this summer.
John
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A few details were added to the cab while waiting for the firebox light.
My finger is on an interesting detail of this model. The window frames slide in a track!
On this C57, the district markers are solid. On the other model there was a brass rack into which individulal markers could be slid into place.
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The first photo shows the brake shoes fastened to their brake levers with the undercarriage upright.
The second photo shows the undercarriage turned upside down with the brake beams in place. A 1mm gap was recommended between the shoes and the wheels but I have been a bit more generous here.
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I'm always impressed by the gluing and painting skills.
I tend to glob things up.
More hints on 'drawing within the lines' are welcome.
:ThumbsUp:
I've been googling such projects as the one you're working on. You're going to cost me money. ;D
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Hi John, I’m sorry if my reference was a bit obscure. It was a mix of ideas from my other hobby, sailing, and the fact that I have had a trailerable boat of some kind for many years.
Put together with my vivid experience of living on Ontario for about 3 1/2 years, even though it was over 40 years ago now. I was fascinated by that lift lock at Perterborough, 64 ft in one lift I seem to remember, and made a special trip with my young family one weekend to see it. I even have a photo some where, you know, one of those ancient technology types involving paper and complex chemical processes.
In my reading on the canal generally at the time, casual rather than in depth research, I learned of another lock which had the lifting basin mounted carriage, which ran on an inclined track. It went up, even going over a road to where it coupled to the upstream section of the canal. I never managed to make the trip to see that one, such are the limitations of having both a toddler and early primary schooler to carry in the back seat of the car, and long working hours. My memory is that it was on the same canal somewhere, but perhaps I am mistaken.
An exquisitely detailed model you are building there,
MJM460
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I've been silently following along John & your eye for detail is second to none. I've really learned a lot about loco's just from your build thread & the methods you use, just fantastic work! :NotWorthy:
John
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Thank you for your lovely words John. You are very kind.
Hello MJM460 (that sounds so impersonal. I apologize.). Yes,I indeed do understand what you are saying in your last post about chemicals. My dad's hobby was photography and I spent many hours at his elbow as a kid in the darkroom. Later in life I had my own darkroom and was still fascinated watching images appear in the developing tray that I had taken with the enlarger. Then the stop bath and the fixer and on I could go. All gone now. If you mentioned a darkroom today, this generation would think of a room with the lights off.
You are referring to the Trent-Severn Waterway’’s Big Chute Marine Railway near Coldwater Ontario.
Here is a video featuring it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf32_I-eXXo
Cheers...John
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Hi Carl,
Sorry I didn't respond to your comment about trim painting. To be honest, I'm not very good at it either.
The saving grace about this model is that the trim pieces are separate pieces of metal that are fastened to the edge of parts. These two pictures of a tender will illustrate.
I spray paint the trim before it ever sees the edge of a mating part. And the new tacky, water based glue makes clean-up much easier.
There is a little trick with that tacky glue however. It really is not that permanent. Yes, it will stck - but over time, it can fail. So I spot apply it to the edge of the trim and apply a tiny drop of CA gel glue in the gaps. The CA glue is not going to squish out all over the place while you fit the part; the white tacky glue gives you some adjustment time, but when things are in place properly, you've covered your bases with a little bit of that strong CA glue as backup. ;)
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The worm gear box is well made. And look at that beautifully machined worm!
I plan to load the gearbox with white lithium grease before closing the box.
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Hi John, thanks for that video, that certainly sounds like the one. I am sorry I did not get to see it, but in a big country, you can’t do everything in limited time. It had to be a day trip from Toronto at the time.
It’s certainly spectacular, I imagine that taking a ride on it would be a really attractive option for people with a boat on the water or on a trailer anywhere in range. No wonder it’s busy.
I hope that now my tongue in cheek suggestion is clear. Interesting thing about today’s world, even on a worldwide forum, it in not necessarily easy to guess where people might have travelled.
I have been MJM since a secretary delivered telexes to my desk twice a day, so no need for apologies. I thought there would be an MJM on the forum when I joined as it is a common enough combination, but I think I saw that an MJM actually registered after I did. (I just checked, he or she had already joined before I registered, but not very active.)
MJM460
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Hello MJM,
Now that's insteresting. I have been JL since I began teaching at a Public School years ago. I had a friend there with my name - John Madill. He taught Grade 4. I taught Grade 6. Whenever a parent called, the secretary would say "Which one?"
So I became JL - Lewis being my middle name.
Here is the gear box. Notice the silicone tube on the shaft. It avoids having to use a universal joint to connect it to the drive shaft of the motor.
Low technology, but if there is not a hang-up, it works.
I did mention it turning into a twisted pretzel when tested on the other model. ::)
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I'm still waiting for that red LED light to install in the firebox, so I'm preparing other parts in the meantime.
I like the deflectors on the C57. They are very substantial and distinctive. Parts of them are die cast.
You can see the difference in these two shots when you compare the D51 deflectors to those of the C57.
Sorry aboout all the relflections in the D51 shot. ::) I was too lazy this morning to take off the model's plastic cover.
Speaking of plastic. There is a fellow in Montreal that makes acrylic covers for any kind of model. I was going to get him to make me one for the C57. They are made without any wooden struts to obstruct the view.
But with the demand for plexiglass for faceshields with the pandemic, he can not get any right now.
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The light arrived! :cartwheel:
Now this may all be just a tempest in a teapot, but anticipating what we'll end up with is all part of the fun.
The light has a shrink wrappeed portion in its pigtail. I assume that provides the flickering action of the light.
I made an aluminum cowl to house the light.
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The Firewall is now installed. This means that the installation of the cab can now proceed.
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What a difference the cab makes to the overall look of the engine. It really is a pleasing experience to mount it.
I can see how fellows who have spent months on their boilers and fireboxes long for the day the cab can be mounted and give the engine so much character. I've seen photos of boilers rusting in scrap heaps with no cab. They look so foreign. Naked and stripped of their character.
Oops, getting philosophical there.
I like the green cushions on the seats.
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Hi John
I've just read the thread through it looks an amazing engine kit the quality looks 1st class. Could you tell me what Gauge/scale the engine is.
Stew
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Stew, the engine and tender are 1:24 scale.
You are right. The kit is high end with parts of brass, steel and die cast metal.
John
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When I reached pack 12 of the D51 build last year, I found that there was one part missing - a brass tank that sat on the running board near the cab.
DeAgostini did not just send me the missing part; they sent me a complete pack 12 box! That was a significant bonus for me. Not only did it contain the missing. part, it contained all the ball bearings for the track, a complete set of brass track, all ties and roadbed ballast, and even another motor! The brass track, roadbed ties and ballast were later used in the Occre Adler model (photo 1).
But the kit also came with three very nicely painted figures; a driver, a fireman and a tourist. These figures are not included with the C57 kit. I may use them.
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The superstructure of the engine is just about complete. Clamps are holding the rafters of the cab in place.
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The base of the model is taking shape.
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One last look at the cab before the engine is mounted onto its substructure.
I decided to put a driver in the driver's seat.
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Tomorrow things come together.
The moment of truth will come when we throw the switch.
I've manually rotated the worm gear and things just might be a go.
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The smoke deflectors on this engine are quite distinctive. They are also very cleverly and robustly designed.
Their cast frames are sandwiched in place by what is called a Bypass Valve Inspection Lid. It's a superb example of this kit's die casting. These photos show how its pins engage the deflecor's frame.
A sheet of steel attaches the lid from under the running board.
Once these deflectors are in place, the engine will be attached to its undercarriage.
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One of the distinguishing features of the C57 that caught my eye when I first saw it in kit form, was the shape of the deflectors. Ironically, if you go on the internet and search for pictures of the C57, you will note that the deflectors have all been altered to a solid, full sheet of metal right down to the running boards - like the D51.
Perhaps they found the smaller deflectors ineffective and converted them for efficiency.
I still like their look.
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The knuckles at the front of the engine and the back of the tender are functional. Removing the pin allows their jaws to open.
It looks as though this fellow is quite taken with the one at the back of the tender.
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Looks like you are on the last stretch on this build John.
I notiched him taking photos of your previous build too ;D
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Yes Per, this lad gets around.
You are right. The closing chapter of this thread and this site for me is just about done.
I liked the added detail on this tender of the light above the signage.
I was not happy at al with the simulated cast coal parts or their colouring for the tender however. I threw them out!
A friend of mine runs a narrow gauge railroad and has bags of coal. I prevailed upon him to spare a baggie of it for me. Now the lumps are rather large and out of 1:24 scale, but a ball peen hammer should make short work of that issue.
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My friend must have known exactly how much this tender would carry!
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That looks amazing, John!
Are you going to glue the coal in place to keep it from spreading around and making a mess? Some clear sealer type glue or something?
Great work as always.
Kim
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The pin for the knuckle at the rear should be attached to the bar above it to allow the lever to raise it. Was there a chain supposed to be included?
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Hi Kim,
Yes, I was at one point thinking of stabilizing the coal with a clear sealer, but decided not to do that. Any sealer I have used has taken the edge off the crisp, sparkle of the material - especially a product like this coal. The tender is a static display item and will be under an acrylic cover.
Hi Kirk,
You are right. The chain could be raised and lowered by grabbing either end of the horizontal bar that has a bump out for the chain to be directly above the eye of the pin. No, no chain is included in either kit. I have lots of scaled chain, but never felt the need to add the few links needed.
Observant of you.
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Before I show two final pictures of the completed C57, I would like to show where it all began - the building of the brass D51.
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The last shots. A little darker for drama.
You will see the oversight of not removing the making tape from the earlier broken air hose. :shrug:
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Well, I couldn't leave this thread without removing that piece of green tape. ;)
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Just beautiful, John!
Kim
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OK so this is the end of another nice thread - thank you very much John for taking us all on the journey with you :cheers:
Beautiful result :ThumbsUp:
Per
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Absolutely stunning John. :ThumbsUp: Thank you for taking us along on this journey. :)
Jim
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:praise2:
Another beautiful piece for your collection! Fantastic work all around!
John