Model Engine Maker
Engines => Restoration of Model Engines => Topic started by: Stilldrillin on March 29, 2013, 10:40:32 PM
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After almost a couple of years delay. I've made a tentative start, on completing my Robinson engine rebuild. :ThumbsUp:
Shop time is still very limited. But, I'll post whenever there's some progress.
Here's the original saga. Just getting the engine to the condition I hoped it would be in, when it arrived...... http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,3555.0.html
The flywheel casting halves are eccentric to each other, and the bosses have been machined true to the opposing sides! :help:
Turned away as much of the balance weight as I could.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030269_zps49c85653.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030269_zps49c85653.jpg.html)
The engine has been dropped, and one foot is broken. :facepalm2:
Milled away the ragged edge......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030271_zpsb54da12b.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030271_zpsb54da12b.jpg.html)
And made a cast iron block to fit in the recess........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030277_zps833cec94.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030277_zps833cec94.jpg.html)
I've had little practice at silver soldering. But, never (yet) had a failed joint. :)
What's the best sequence to use, for a sound joint in this situation? Should I flatten the wire, to lay between the parts?
Any tips would be much appreciated.
David D
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Hi David, As long as you have plenty of heat you should have no problem repairing this casting.
Just make sure the casting is scrupulously clean - no trace of oil in the pores - mix up a good paste of flux with clean water and coat all surfaces liberally and use plenty of heat - you could lay in strips of rod but personally (as long as the insert cant move) I would get the heat up first applying more flux as it goes then apply the solder just as the flux turns 'watery' feeding it in as it flows.
I quite envy your opportunity - I used to love reclaiming something of this nature. Good luck with it :ThumbsUp:
Regards - Ramon
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Hi David,guess both of us are on a play time shortage at the moment.My air cooled ones still sulking under the bench as the drawings from Mr Westbury do have there problems :facepalm:
Dave's Sterling coming on very slowly
I think Ramon has covered the silver solder question but any probs with heat send her up here its not a problem
Will catch up soon :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Hi Ramon.
Thanks for the confidence boost. I wondered if any different technique was required for c/i.
Seems just the usual common sense preparation, and sensible heat distribution.
I quite envy your opportunity - I used to love reclaiming something of this nature. Good luck with it :ThumbsUp:
Thanks! It's nice someone else understands my love of rectifying failed efforts. Rather than building from scratch...... :)
Several more orphans are waiting patiently in the toy cupboard.
Hi Frazer.
Thanks for the offer of extra heat assistance. But, I'm sure all will be ok. Probably!
Yes our present paths seem to be running parallel. But not managing to coincide as we hoped.
Phone availability times remain unchanged. As does the Harrogate meet.
Thanks Chaps! Pics will be displayed...... Win, or lose!
David D
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Well.....
When I'd dropped the insert on the floor, for the third time, while trying to wire it into place. I realised, it was April 1st.... :wallbang:
Finally got it fixed, with flux more or less where I wanted it, and positioned on a fire brick.
After some time of heating, I realised my blowlamp was ok for copper plumbing. But, well underpowered for this job! :facepalm:
The flux was bubbling, but no sign of any red heat! :(
Only thing to do was dab and hope.........
The solder slowly melted, and puddled. So, I dabbed some more. Hoping it might flow through. (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/confused/sorry-3.gif) (http://freesmileyface.net/free-confused-smileys.html)
Then I went for me lunch, leaving it to cool........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030282_zps6f1bcdb1.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030282_zps6f1bcdb1.jpg.html)
Turned it over, a couple of hours later. Not too bad........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030283_zpse2cbe438.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030283_zpse2cbe438.jpg.html)
Milled off excess. Expecting it to come unstuck.
Why do we always go that one thou too deep? :embarassed:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030286_zps175491f4.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030286_zps175491f4.jpg.html)
Still attached. Looking ok.........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030293_zps6a990341.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030293_zps6a990341.jpg.html)
Rolled it over. Angle grindered and drilled 5mm........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030294_zps1299c072.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030294_zps1299c072.jpg.html)
A couple of dabs of filler and some paint, should look ok! :D
Thanks for the support Chaps. Much appreciated! :ThumbsUp:
David D
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Nicely done David - it's surprising how much heat somethings actually take but it looks like you made it okay :ThumbsUp:
Ramon
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Very nice repair indeed David. :praise2: :praise2:
You are showing with your restorations that nothing is really too far gone not to run again, it just takes time and confidence.
I have a casting set to build one of these engines, maybe one day it will get to the top of the pile.
BTW, did that displacer piston work OK? If it did, then when eventually I get mine made, I will take that route instead of making it out of the supplied parts, it seems to be a little more accurate.
John
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Thanks Ramon!
After getting that sinking feeling, when I realised I was well short of heat. I really didn't expect it to "stay stuck". :disagree:
Don't know what make/ grade of solder I used, but it worked a miracle for me...... :whoohoo:
Thanks John!
Confidence...... Yes! Reading my original saga, I have progressed quite some way over the last two years. ^-^
The displacer fitted/ worked perfectly, thanks.
It is a much better component than the presently supplied spinning, with it's large radius corners, giving much dead space......
David D
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All stripped again......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030305_zps1c6654dc.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030305_zps1c6654dc.jpg.html)
Looks better than the first stripdown! :)
Starting to clean parts, and adjust them to fit each other properly. Never seen a drawing, so I'm building blind. :shrug:
I used Bluecol top up mixture for coolant.
There is rust in the nooks and crannies, despite piping air through the engine for 3 days, after running. Would machine coolant mix be kinder?
What do others use?
David D
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Hi Dave,
If your trying to dry out the coolant jackets and they're not that big...bring the engine outside and flush the coolant jacket with "drygas" which is nothing but alcohol. Its hydrophilic...or in english...it bonds to water...and when it evaporates...takes the water with it...it will be bone dry once it evaporates...the down side would be if you have any parts that will react poorly with alcohol...can't think of any...but...think before you do.
Also if your running compressed air...make sure your tank is drained and you have a moisture seperator...or your pumping moisture from the air in as well as the compressed air....
Dave
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Hi Dave, just run her dry or use the anti freeze but don't thin it with water but she will still need well drying after use or hide it in the airing cupboard :lolb:.We used to have a coolant for the Rolls Royce engines that I used to borrow for my old Morgan and never had any scale/rust problems but dont know where to get my grubby hands on any :ROFL:
Oh we have a runner :ThumbsUp:just a tidy up then onward :LittleDevil:
cheers
frazer
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Hi Dave.
I've never heard of Drygas! :shrug:
The engine is stored in a dry, household cupboard.
The air supply is from a fish tank aerator pump. Just a gentle air flow, for a few days. Many of the Steamtoy Lads do the same, to dry out their boilers.
Rather disappointed, the Bluecol allowed rust to form....... :-\
Hi Frazer.
The Bluecol is the top up mixture. Ready to use.
She's been dry. Hiding in the airing cupboard, for 2 years! After the last run.......
Yay! Well done, getting a runner! :whoohoo:
David D
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Dave try shellac thinners its about 94 percent alcohol unlike meths and the engines run loads better on it but its clear so don't get it mixed up with the Vodka :Jester:
Thanks I will do a little pic show of her.
Started planning out the start-able single steam plant for the min vap hull
best wishes
frazer
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Shellac thinners? Ah! that would fetch out the residual water, would it? Hmmm...... :thinking:
No chance of finding vodka here! :ShakeHead:
That sort of stuff gives me headache, after I've fallen over....... :help:
David D
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I think Iv had to much cannot even spell it correctly :Lol:
The shellac thinners should work the same way as the one Dave mentioned.Its always a problem my own hit and miss engines have suffered the same way in the past and its so annoying
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I am sure you know that the moisture causing the rust may be that in the atmosphere in your shop...40%...60%. Cool the air and it will come out to meet you.
Sorry, just had to mention it.
Mosey
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Future food for thought : Many foods and electronics products come with silicon desiccant packets (do not eat) -- the sole purpose of these is to trap moisture in the packaging and prevent it from spoiling the food/ruining the product.
If you see any of these in something you buy, immediately after opening the product, put the silicon desiccant packet in an air tight container for later use. You can gather a few of these and put them in an air tight container with anything you wish dried out or kept dry, and it will suck all the moisture out of the air (allowing moisture on the parts to evaporate, thus being sucked up, etc)
Another product that I've used to remove high amounts of humidity from the air is designed for damp rooms or closets, called Damp-Rid, available just about anywhere (supermarkets, walmarts, home depot, etc) and it comes in various types of packaging for various purposes. It would work in a similar situation - place your parts-to-be-kept-dry and a package or two of Damp-Rid in a closed container and let it do its magic.
I live in a very high-humidity locale, and have to deal with humidity in a variety of ways - I have a dehumidifier running 4 hours a day in my master bedroom (it gets up to 85% in there by morning), and have used damp-rid in a number of other situations. I also always place silicon desiccants in my lockboxes and things that hold important papers, to keep moisture from ruining them.
-- Rayanth
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Mosey, Ryanath.
Thanks for the thoughts. It isn't a humidity problem. I think! :thinking:
I'm in the same room as the toy cupboard. The humidity's 42%, and temp 21c.
David D
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Hi Dave.
I've never heard of Drygas! :shrug:
The engine is stored in a dry, household cupboard.
The air supply is from a fish tank aerator pump. Just a gentle air flow, for a few days. Many of the Steamtoy Lads do the same, to dry out their boilers.
Rather disappointed, the Bluecol allowed rust to form....... :-\
Hi Frazer.
The Bluecol is the top up mixture. Ready to use.
She's been dry. Hiding in the airing cupboard, for 2 years! After the last run.......
Yay! Well done, getting a runner! :whoohoo:
David D
:lolb:
OK you live on a continent that rains more than it shines...and no drygas!...
It's at any service station here....about a dollar a bottle...pop one in when you fill up.
I like the shellac idea...but don't put any alcohol in there after!
Dave :cheers:
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Made a little headway.
Spent a lot of time filing and fitting together. Cleaning out threaded holes, and shortening new screws to fit.
Painted some parts........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030308_zpsee3209cc.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030308_zpsee3209cc.jpg.html)
Not happy with the deck surfaces. So, will scrape off, and re paint. :(
Didn't like the pifflin' 3/16"dia. m/s crankshaft, holding a 4.5" dia. cast iron flywheel. :ShakeHead:
So, I replaced with 6mm silver steel, and new bushes......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030312_zps9ed4b0e4.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030312_zps9ed4b0e4.jpg.html)
In real life, these engines were usually located in the scullery, to supply water from the well, to an in house storage tank.
Does anyone know what kind of pump would be used?
David D
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Good to see you back on the case Dave :ThumbsUp:
Nice paint Job
Should see you at Harrogate on the Saturday Chesters stand 12 Oclock
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Thanks Stew!
I'll be there, all being well....... :whoohoo:
Slow, but steady progress. :cartwheel:
I've sleeved the flywheel bosses back to a sensible diameter. Also, the bore to 6mm.
The colour's not as orange, as it seems here........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030317_zps36906e6a.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030317_zps36906e6a.jpg.html)
Lit a small burner, to cook the paint a little.....
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030324_zpsdc4bd30b.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030324_zpsdc4bd30b.jpg.html)
Warmed gently for 5 mins or so........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030319_zps9182361a.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030319_zps9182361a.jpg.html)
Didn't want any paint blisters....... But it's a trier......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030322_zpsf7d34595.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030322_zpsf7d34595.jpg.html)
Finally coming together! :D
David D
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Thought you might have cooked it in the oven when you're lass wasn't looking :mischief:
Looking good now David whats next out of the cupboard :naughty:
Cheers
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Well done David :ThumbsUp:
Looks like this is another orphan that's finally at home.
Kind regards, Arnold
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Well done David :ThumbsUp:
Looks like this is another orphan that's finally at home.
Kind regards, Arnold
Yes it does! Looks great Dave! :NotWorthy:
Dave
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Thanks for your kind comments Chaps!
Today's temporary trial. No coolant. Borrowed the gas burner from the Huxtable.
Oh..... Happy Day!!!! :whoohoo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4PUmj25vZg
Now needs a coolant tank, and it's own gas heating system.
I've ordered a gas tank. Will have a go at making my own burner. :ThumbsUp:
David D
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Brilliant. Well done David. :ThumbsUp:
Jo
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A beautiful runner Dave, I like them like that, elegant and quiet, kind of how a good lassie should be :mischief:
BC1
Jim
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Just needs a pump :mischief: :mischief:
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Jo.
Thank you! :ThumbsUp:
Jim.
That made me smile! :D
Frazer.
Pump! Any ideas? How yer fixed?
Too many orphans, wanting out of the cupboard. I'm too busy........ ;)
David D
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I wish Iv nearly forgotten what the toy room looks like :Lol: and the DIY scroll just gets bigger Im sure wor lass thinks Iv got a 28hour day
cheers and thanks for the offer :lolb: but we've got a poppop boat to sail :facepalm:
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Lovely job.
You could maybe paint the inside of the waterjacket with Glyptal casting sealer?
Or similar high temp epoxy paint.
Might cut down heat transfer a shade but not too much. And would make it rust proof.
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Frazer.
You go and enjoy. Sharing quality time...... ;)
Hopper.
Never come across Glyptal! Don't intend stripping/ painting again, for a long time.
But..... I came across a can of water dispersant, long forgotten, in the workshop. :whoohoo:
Must have followed me home from work one day, long ago! I'll give it a swill out, after running........ :ThumbsUp:
Stillsmilin'. :D
David D
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Hopper.
Don't intend stripping/ painting again, for a long time.
David D
Glyptal ?? Not at this price you won't ... :o
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eastwood-Glyptal-sealant-aluminium-castings/dp/B00C68DQ4G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368601561&sr=8-1&keywords=glyptal
Used to use it as a high voltage coating to stop corona .. [ electrical, not fizzy pop .. ]
If you really want to paint the inside, you might try this stuff. Somewhat cheaper.
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product-product-AQU_Q05167.htm
Dave BC
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It's been a long journey Dave, but a lovely end result. :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy:
I just hope mine turns out as well when eventually .........
John
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Very nice indeed. Very tempting. Next project perhaps.....
Well done,
Rod
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Great job on the Robertson Dave, enjoyed the video.
Don
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Great job Dave, looks and runs superb. It is tempting me to have a go at one myself, would go nice with my Rider model.
Cheers,
MartinH
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Yeah we'll done David running sweetly and looks great - sure its the same engine?!
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Thanks for all your kind comments Chaps! :)
It has been a while hasn't it. And, it's not over yet! :facepalm:
Bought some 'inch and a bit' dia. brass tube offcuts from Harrogate. For burner body, and cooling tower.
Needs a wooden base.
This thing could run and run........ :thinking:
David D
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I've started work on the gas burner.
Machined the jet area, as a mixed copy of my Bix burner, and the Scott engine plans......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030350_zpsd77e3694.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030350_zpsd77e3694.jpg.html)
Another section of Russian vacuum cleaner pipe, and offcut of mini lathe guard.
Think I'm getting the hang of this silver soldering now........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030352_zpsab7b7217.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030352_zpsab7b7217.jpg.html)
Topped a brass disc to 1.400"......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030354_zps498d5494.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030354_zps498d5494.jpg.html)
And perforated........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030357_zps2f77baa4.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030357_zps2f77baa4.jpg.html)
Group shot, as of this eve.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030358_zps922aef0b.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030358_zps922aef0b.jpg.html)
I'll make tubular spacer/ shelf, to hold the brass disc in place. Just inside the top of the pot.
Well..... That's the outside "done". What goes inside?
I intend to span the full internal diameter, with the inlet pipe. With outlet holes, or a slot, facing downwards.
Bouncing the gas off the floor, to fill the chamber more evenly. Maybe! ?
Anyone got any better internal ideas?
David D
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Nice David :ThumbsUp:.
Ok I need to know: how did you drill the pretty patterns :noidea: are you using a DRO or just the rotary table?
Jo
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Thanks Jo!
Using just the r/t, on mini mill. Two, or three turns in X, to give spacings.
David D
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Tested the MK 1 burner, this afternoon. Still got me eyebrows! :ThumbsUp:
It all went very well, considering. :whoohoo:
Sensible maximum. (Don't like the high centre cone).......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030372_zps53a880ce.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030372_zps53a880ce.jpg.html)
Sensible minimum.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030377_zps2cda77ae.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030377_zps2cda77ae.jpg.html)
Turned right up......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030375_zps1a0fcf01.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030375_zps1a0fcf01.jpg.html)
With those blue tips being blown upward, I think we need some more holes!
Mid sensible, setting. It ran the engine perfectly! :whoohoo:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030380_zps41ece1c1.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030380_zps41ece1c1.jpg.html)
A bit of cosmetic work to do on the pot, and drill some more holes..... Job's a good un! :D
David D
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Drilled a few extra holes.
Some of them, larger diameters. Until testing showed all the little blue flames were where they should be. :ThumbsUp:
So, I reduced the oal height to 1/2", painted and finish assembled......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030392_zps7f7e1d0a.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030392_zps7f7e1d0a.jpg.html)
Must say, I'm a little surprised at the lack of comments. Doesn't anyone build gas burners? (http://serve.mysmiley.net/mad/mad0270.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Still..... I'm pleased at the performance of my first attempt. :whoohoo:
David D
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Lack of comment ??? Could be we're speechless with admiration ... :ThumbsUp:
I was going to ask you to elaborate on the Bix Burner bit 'cos I've made a burner, or some bits of one, but I've not much idea where to put the jet or what size & where from etc.
Mine is a tubular doins with slits, like a Bunsen Burner on it's side, but with no hole at the far end, just slits on one side ...
( In fact, nowt like a Bunsen Burner really ) ??? :headscratch:
I have some gauze to poke in it, to make a diffuse set of flames. Was going to use it on that Stirling Engine that I melted with my big propane burner.
Dave BC
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Dave.
Nah! Any speechlessness around me is exasperation. Usually!
How do you want me to elaborate?
To get the jet position, you need to measure one, or look at a similar drawing, an I did both..... ;)
I was more concerned about what was needed inside the box. But I guess I guessed right! :ThumbsUp:
David D
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Just quietly watching David, she a good un :ThumbsUp:
The end of the jet usually sits inline with the edge of the air hole and you can add a few baffles in the base to mix the gas n air.
The poker burners Iv built seem to work better if the slits are no wider than the tubes gauge
cheers
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Thanks Frazer! :ThumbsUp:
I found it burned best, with the end of the jet holder 1/2 way across the air holes.
It was your comment, at Harrogate, about plugging the end of the tube.
That gave me the idea to bounce the gas/ air mix off the floor...... :praise2:
David D
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Ah! But what are we poor paupers to do who lack a burner or drawing to look at ??
I have a jet ripped from a defunct Taymar thingy, but I have no idea what the damn thread is on it ??
Nor do I know how much gas it will pass. Judging by the output on the torch, a lot more that I want, so I guess it could be restricted on the input ??
It does have a number on it ( 5 ?? ) does yours have a number ?? The one I have is for propane or propane butane mix, which is what I use.
Do you know what the thread is ?? It's a damn titchy thing to measure, it appears to be 1BA, but I don't know for certain.
Dave BC
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Usualy 1BA a number 5 has a 0.2mm dia hole
cheers
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Dave.
Don't know how Taymar rate their jets for their thingies. :headscratch:
Several of the Steamtoy lads have adapted small blowlamp heads....... http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic31388-0-asc-0.php
The jet I've used is a No5. The smaller one is a 3, not much difference, I'm told.
Let me have a bit of breakfast, an I'll ring you. :ThumbsUp:
David D
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David, the design of gas burners might be better as a new posting instead of part of your Robinson.
It seems to be something of a black art and a lot of cut and try before getting an acceptable burner. I have used the ceramic with holes to make a burner for a G1 DeWinton loco but although the result worked I'm not sure it was optimum.
Is it worth trying to make jets or are they just too difficult? I discussed this with a someone at an exhibition but he wouldn't say much about how he made the jet hole!
John
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Hi John.
Yes. You're right. A separate posting might have generated more discussion. :ThumbsUp:
I wouldn't try to drill such small holes! :o ........ Not when jets are available, so easily..... http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/gas_jets.htm
David D
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Tested the MK 1 burner, this afternoon. Still got me eyebrows! :ThumbsUp:
It all went very well, considering. :whoohoo:
Sensible maximum. (Don't like the high centre cone).......
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/322/p1030372a.jpg)
Sensible minimum.......
(http://imageshack.us/a/img856/7199/p1030377u.jpg)
Turned right up......
(http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4769/p1030375y.jpg)
With those blue tips being blown upward, I think we need some more holes!
Mid sensible, setting. It ran the engine perfectly! :whoohoo:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img856/3715/p1030380t.jpg)
A bit of cosmetic work to do on the pot, and drill some more holes..... Job's a good un! :D
David D
Great job on that burner Dave....Like others, I've tried the slotted poker burners before on propane...they work..but not as well as that one does!
:ThumbsUp:
Dave
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Some of the burners for my hot air engines started life as camping stoves, worth looking at if only to get ideas. Yes I think a few more holes may help. Ian S C
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David, I have no idea how burners work. How did you do it then, machine the body bits yourself and bought a jet? Certainly looks to work perfectly.
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Dave, Ian...... Thank You! :ThumbsUp:
Nick.
I installed a Bix tank and custom made, small burner on the Huxtable, some time back. It works very well.
That was all I knew about gas power..... :-\
After trying meths, I got a runner, (just), on a piece of esbit......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-b7CB1XpLo
The only answer had to be, gas.
Here's the Bix/ Huxtable set up.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030348_zps7e8d7888.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030348_zps7e8d7888.jpg.html)
I already had the spare No5 jet, in a 5/16" holder. But made the rest following the Bix design, also the burner drawing for the Scott engine. As serialised by John Boggy.
This gave me the jet chamber/ venturi dimensions. But, I had no idea of what was needed inside the pot.
Once I got me head around the need to thoroughly mix the mixture, before the flame. I decided to dump the charge downwards, to the floor of the chamber.
The three exit holes are installed the other way up. No hole in the end of the pipe......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030362_zps202d2ff0.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030362_zps202d2ff0.jpg.html)
It worked! Very well!! :whoohoo:
David D
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Dave
Polly do them as well .
tanks , filler fitting and the ceramic to cut your self
no association with them but another source to peruse
Stuart
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Nice thread David and congratulations on the build.
I would also support a thread on building gas burners. It's something in my future and I too would like to keep what little eyebrows I still have.
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Stuart, Carl, thanks for your replies...... :ThumbsUp:
Well....... I'm still here! ::)
Unfortunately, shop time and enthusiasm have been hard to find recently. :(
But, I've sourced a rubber wood base, gas tank, and drilled some more holes in the burner rose......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030467_zps11858145.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030467_zps11858145.jpg.html)
It runs ok, so far.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030468_zpsc066984b.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030468_zpsc066984b.jpg.html)
Trying to get me head around plumbing the water tower. It needs up/ down pipes.
I intended to solder direct into the side. But, don't like that idea, now........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030481_zpsb046d6fc.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030481_zpsb046d6fc.jpg.html)
Cos it needs to unplug from the engine stubs......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030482_zpscbbd041c.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030482_zpscbbd041c.jpg.html)
Thought, mebbe I could solder in, boiler type bushings.
Then plumb lower pipe through a 90* elbow, and upper, bend over to horizontal.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030486_zps128c1007.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030486_zps128c1007.jpg.html)
Anyone else got a better idea? :thinking:
Are there any better looking, 8mm dia fixings, than these?
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030483_zps9a8aa45e.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030483_zps9a8aa45e.jpg.html)
It's nice to be back! :whoohoo:
David D
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This has really come together nicely David. Glad you are back working on it!!
Bill
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Bit baffled here, how's that going to work ??
If the tubes at the engine end are at the same temp. I don't really see much thermo-syphon effect is going to happen.
Or am I missing the plot somewhere ?? Maybe just to increase the coolant volume ??
Dave BC
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Bill...... Thank You! :ThumbsUp:
Dave.
Hot water always rises, if it can. So, it rises up the higher pipe, to the top of the tank.
This then brings in cold water from the lower pipe....... Circulation!
Same as a fire back boiler, or my old sidevalve Reliant.
David D
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Dave
Oh yes, looking at the pic. it will ... knew I'd missed something ...
Never had the pleasure of a SV Reliant .. :ThumbsUp: Lots of other bad things happened to me instead ... :Lol:
Somewhere I have some banjos and matching bolts. 8mm IIRC any good to you.
Wanna piccy ?
Piccys herewith thread is 8mm, the hole through the bolt could be opened to 5mm, waisted part is 6.8mm dia.
Dave BC
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Hi marra, nice to see some progress.Instead of the clips you could use a push on brass tube to cover the joint as there is no pressure it wont need to be dead tight
see ya later duck :ThumbsUp:
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Thanks for the kind offer Dave. :ThumbsUp:
Frankly, I can cause meself enough problems, chopping them out of a length of 1/2" bar. As opposed to trying not to scrap your spares! :embarassed:
Something like this.
Top bush to rear. Bottom bush and elbow to fore.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030488_zpsd4703af4.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030488_zpsd4703af4.jpg.html)
Turned a hardwood plinth, and soldered a disk into the bottom of the tank. It doesn't leak! :)
Top pipe in place, no bush fitted, yet........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030489_zps87dcf6d0.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030489_zps87dcf6d0.jpg.html)
Frazer! Heyup ma duck! ;)
Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. Need some softer tube, than the standard neoprene, in stock. :thinking:
Gan canny marra....... :D
David D
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Ah divent kna what size tube you need but Iv got crate loads of sillycone on the van different sizes just yell and I will send some
cheers duck
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Frazer. Thara goodun! :)
A short length of 8mm/ 5/16" bore, would do nicely..... :ThumbsUp:
Bless yer! ;)
David D
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No problem :ThumbsUp:I maybe gone some time :ROFL:
Did you know theres no handles on the inside of the renault side doors and the van back half was full :lolb: had to ring the customer to let me out :censored: :censored: :censored: :facepalm2: At least I had a phone signal
cheers
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No problem :ThumbsUp:I maybe gone some time :ROFL:
Did you know theres no handles on the inside of the renault side doors and the van back half was full :lolb: had to ring the customer to let me out :censored: :censored: :censored: :facepalm2: At least I had a phone signal
cheers
Ohhhh...... NO!! :facepalm: :embarassed:
The things you do, for your mates......... ::)
David D
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Sorry Frazer, but it's very amusing.
Hugh.
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Entertaining Grandad's little sweetheart, took up a lot of time today.
She loves to potter in the workshop. But, doesn't like the noise of the machines, as yet! ^-^
Managed to get the bushes soldered in. Then spent ages tweaking/ adjusting the pipes to fit, "just so"......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1030494_zpsfb8807a5.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1030494_zpsfb8807a5.jpg.html)
I was going to fix the copper pipework in place with sleevelock.
But, I reckon blue Hylomar will do the job, allowing a little flexibility, and easy adjustment, if necessary.
David D
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Looking really smart that David. :ThumbsUp:
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Very neat and tidyDavid. I understand the concept of the hot water rising and then sucking in the cooler water from the bottom of the tank, but since both the hot and cold sided are at the same level at the inlet and outlet of the engine, I am still wondering if it won't take something to get the cycle started?
Bill
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Thanks Nick! :ThumbsUp:
The tank looks better, now it's pickled and polished...... ;)
Bill. Thank you! :ThumbsUp:
Two years ago, I ran it several times. Using a treacle tin.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx4MsDvT55A
Never gave any trouble! As, hot water will always rise...... And it can, in one of the pipes.....
I even, also ran a low temp engine, sitting on the top of the can. ;)
David D
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Well as they say David, the proof is in the pudding...and it obviously works in that video. This really is a fascinating engine to watch with its unique linkage to the displacer and piston!!
Bill
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The Mrs. will be a treat to see once done David; she's REALLY looking good so far :ThumbsUp:
Can't wait for the final video :)
Kind regards, Arnold
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Nice runner David. The Westbury one is still in disgrace under the bench :lolb:Whats next
cheers
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Thanks Bill!
Shouldn't be too long now, before I prove the thermo syphon system.
Thanks Arnold!
Video, sometime. Will try to include a blackbird soundtrack. ;)
Frazer.
Thanks! I'd forgotten the Westbury! ::)
Next? I think that will have to be the Maiwald, don't you! :embarassed:
Assembly time!
I'm not sure how hot the burner body will get, under there. Don't want any charred wood!
So, I decided to stand it on 3 wood-screws......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030496_zps0938aea2.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030496_zps0938aea2.jpg.html)
Gas tank, with it's operating lever........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030498_zps1248b8cb.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030498_zps1248b8cb.jpg.html)
And the assembly, assembled......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030499_zps30bf2ca7.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030499_zps30bf2ca7.jpg.html)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030501_zpsa585a378.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030501_zpsa585a378.jpg.html)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030500_zps04f1b28b.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030500_zps04f1b28b.jpg.html)
Busy, for the next few days. Video, eventually.
David D
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David, I think the wood screws under the burner is a wise decision. I did something similar with the burner for the Rider-Ericsson but added the screws to the bottom of the burner body instead. Same end result however, and so far haven't had any problems with the screw heads melting or burning into the varnished wood base that the burner (and engine) are mounted to. The finished pictures are wonderful....what a transformation from when you started the restoration!! :praise2: :praise2:
Bill
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You must be well chuffed with that David, by far the best Robinson I've seen.
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Bill, Nick. Thanks for your kind words, and encouragement. :ThumbsUp:
So.........
Yesterday, I fired up. At the start of a full heat test run. Away she went, running nicely, as usual. :whoohoo:
Time to fill the cooling system. Using a 5% mix of Shell Supercut-Plus, instead of the previous Bluecol top up mix....... :LickLips:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030527_zps8e3dd356.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030527_zps8e3dd356.jpg.html)
A couple of minutes later, the well remembered water boiling sounds started. And she stopped. :ShakeHead:
This proves, once again. Stirling Principle engines will not run on steam! :wallbang: :wallbang:
Removing the thumbscrew, and extracting the stainless steel air tube, revealed smears of coolant.
The fluid must be leaking up the outside, and into the power cylinder. :facepalm:
I machined 3off, 5thou deep recesses, into the tube's o/d. To hold the Hylomar, and seal between air tube and brass tube's bore.
Then I fired up the burner several times, spinning the engine to allow it to breath, and dry out.
Left the system open, and this morning all was well. :D
Generous application of Hylomar sealed it, as hoped.
Set up, in the kitchen. Not a particularly good idea, so I was informed....... :(
But all went well, during a half hour run.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030524_zps93de23b9.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030524_zps93de23b9.jpg.html)
Observations.
The thermo syphon system worked very well. (Bill).
The burner system is too on/ off. Also, needs a smaller diameter, more concentrated flame.
Smoke from under the feet, indicated things were getting much too hot. Couldn't touch the underside of the base wood! :o
The copper chimney got a bit warm, too.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030528_zps1eb69d6e.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030528_zps1eb69d6e.jpg.html)
I'm going to try this choke ring, next. Failing that, it's a new rose, with a smaller drilled area.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030529_zps5fc66769.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030529_zps5fc66769.jpg.html)
Must look for a No 3 jet......
David D
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David.....a little off thread .....I also have a BIX manufactured gas tank..........may I ask why you changed the as-built needle valve hand wheel to the lever format?.........Derek
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Hi David, glad to see you got over the water leak.
You should know by now not to upset the powers that be :LittleDevil:
I may have some bits of machinable ceramic to make heat resistant stand offs for the feet.Just ask
cheers
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Glad to hear you got things sorted out David. It does look like there is a bit too much heat, but hopefully the choke will help in that regard.
Bill
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Derek.
Those tanks and valves are made for powering boilers. Running full on, mostly.
I need to be somewhere between "just lit", and "just hear it hissing". Around 1/8 of a turn.
I've altered the needle taper, to give finer control. But, it doesn't make much difference! A lever makes tiny valve adjustments easier.
Frazer.
The Power that Is..... Is still grumbling about, "stinking the house out". Strange things wimmin! :shrug:
Bill.
Thank you. Some more steps in the right direction. It's all an experiment!
David D
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David
Brilliant. Another amazing restoration with the usual captivating log.
The base looks familiar - I got mine from the Co-op, but unfortunately will have to look elsewhere for the next one!
Kind regards
Geoff at Inky Engines
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Hi Geoff.
Thanks for that! :ThumbsUp:
The base? I got 2 from Staveley Factory Shop. It's worth checking in there, occasionally!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1010664.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1010664.jpg.html)
The first one, made a 7" dia base, for the Gold Blend engine......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1010684.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/P1010684.jpg.html)
David D
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David
Thanks for the advice. You got a bargain - maybe that's why my Stow Green chopping board supplier is closing down!
Mine carries Elmer's Factory and Mill Engines
(http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p594/InkyEngines/Screenshot2012-08-28at180637_zps0a198117.jpg) (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/InkyEngines/media/Screenshot2012-08-28at180637_zps0a198117.jpg.html)
Kind regards
Geoff at Inky Engines
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Geoff.
Those boards were made with us in mind, I think! ;)
Had another test run today. Just over 1/2 hour.
The burner is better, with the choke ring. But, there's still a lot of heat, where it's not wanted. Some lovely colours on the copper chimney! :o
Have started to make another rose. Probably, with 1.5mm holes, over a 3/4" diameter area.
Also, ordered a couple of No 3 jets. (One for the Huxtable).......
David D
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Here's a little conundrum.......
The new crankshaft bearings I'd made had too much clearance, on the new 6mm silver steel shaft. :(
So, I bought some 10mm o/d needle roller bearings. Mounted the pedestal on a mandrel, and recessed each end of the casting bore, to suit.
The needle rollers had a bigger wobbability factor than my original bushes!! :o
Can't work that out. Am I missing something? :thinking:
Managed to locate four ball races. 6 x 10 x 3mm.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030578_zpsbcf62336.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030578_zpsbcf62336.jpg.html)
And these fitted perfectly, in pairs, either end of the pedestal........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030579_zpsbfcdd84d.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030579_zpsbfcdd84d.jpg.html)
Job's a good un. But, I can't work out why the rollers seem to be oversize, on the 6mm shaft....... :shrug:
David D
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For some reason there's a voice saying that needle rollers (some, anyway) are a push/press fit into their housing. This fit then reduces the ID to the specified size. Mebbe, mebbe not, but it works as a reason for your conundrum.
Cheers, Hugh.
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A press fit sounds reasonable Hugh! :ThumbsUp:
The clearance seems somewhere around 5 thou, to me...... So, they would certainly need some PRESS....... ;)
David D
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I said it was too getting hot, under her skirt. Didn't I? ;)
Even with the choke ring, the present burner is too enthusiastic....... :-\
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030541_zps26f8c412.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030541_zps26f8c412.jpg.html)
Some mica insulation, under the feet........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030542_zps982a7229.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030542_zps982a7229.jpg.html)
Fitted a No3 jet, and made a smaller rose.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030535_zps7c0afbd6.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030535_zps7c0afbd6.jpg.html)
Good. But still too much........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030548_zps84605c2c.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030548_zps84605c2c.jpg.html)
So, I reduced the burner area even more........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030586_zpse3558b46.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030586_zpse3558b46.jpg.html)
And, I reckon it could still work well, even smaller........
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030588_zps6050e1ae.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030588_zps6050e1ae.jpg.html)
Start up from cold, is now "instant". 10secs is all she needs to begin to run.
Here's a little vid, taken during during a 1hr test run. Mounted on a plastic turntable. Should give a smile.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnjBj8WQr8
That was when I realised the flywheel balance weight was out of sync. After fitting the new bearings! :facepalm:
Just got to find why she clonks, when hot....... But not when cold. :shrug:
David D
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:ThumbsUp:
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As an addendum to the burner development.......
Gas power is usually used, to get as much heat as possible, under a boiler.
The problem is. I need a gentle, controllable, flame.
It finally dawned on me, what's needed, is lower gas velocity. Provided by larger holes!
As an experiment, I removed the rose insert. But it then insisted on burning, down inside the body.
Made a rose, with 3.5mm holes. (And 2mm central hole, which was already in the piece of bar).
The old, and new roses.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030861_zps3e031a1e.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030861_zps3e031a1e.jpg.html)
No. 3 jet, giving a full flame. Which doesn't blow itself out when full on.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030863_zps2bd31fac.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030863_zps2bd31fac.jpg.html)
But will turn down, sufficient for the engine to stop, with the burner still lit.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/Return%20Album/P1030868_zpsec21d470.jpg) (http://s110.photobucket.com/user/Dayjo/media/Return%20Album/P1030868_zpsec21d470.jpg.html)
Heading the right way, now. I think!
David D
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Ah, that looks a lot more sensible. :ThumbsUp:
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Forgot to mention earlier, 23rd Nov., was local A&P show, and the vintage machinery group, and me with one or two of my hot air engines display our bits and pieces. One of the lads bought along a full size Robinson hot Air engine that he bought in Austrailia, it arrived in Christchurch the day before. Once the fire was lit under it, and we waited about 20 minutes, it ran, and kept going all day, lovely engine. At some stage I may have a photo. Ian S C
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It wasn't a 4.5" bore tiddler then? Would be nice to see a photo.
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At some stage I may have a photo. Ian S C
I would like to see that, Ian! :ThumbsUp:
David D
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The Robinson motor is one built by Gardeners in UK about 1890/94, it seems to be rated 1/3 HP, I forgot to measure the bore, it's somewhere about 8", or 10". Ian S C ps my little engine on the table(ex ironing board), top right corner.
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WOW!! :o
Thanks for showing, Ian. :cheers:
That's the largest Robinson I've ever seen..... (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/surprise/surprised-034.gif) (http://freesmileyface.net/free-surprise-smileys.html)
David D
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Another Wow, thanks for the pic Ian :ThumbsUp:
wont get that one on the coffee table David :Lol:
cheers
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Here's a Robinson No. 6. This is the largest size made - 5/8HP with a bore and stroke of 10".
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Thanks for the pic.It has helped me out :ThumbsUp:
cheers
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Thanks for the pic, Easy! :ThumbsUp:
David D
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The regulator(? suppose that's what it is), worked ok, while there is no load on the motor, it clicks away, and a hand on the rim of the flywheel, and it stops clicking, and the motor gives full power. Could not see any number on it, and the 1/3 hp is on the little notice that came with it from Austrailia. There is no ash pan, so there was a nice round burnt area of grass underneath the fire box at the end of the day. Ian S C