Model Engine Maker

Engines => Your Own Design => Topic started by: zeeprogrammer on July 29, 2012, 04:25:47 PM

Title: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 29, 2012, 04:25:47 PM
A finger-treadle engine in the form of a spinning wheel.

My daughter spins wool and some time ago I thought it would be neat to make a model of one.
I haven't had much time in the shop but have done some drawings and a little experimentation in the time I do get.

It's a 1/5 scale model of a double-drive Castle style spinning wheel.

It won't spin fiber but I'd like it to be functional enough to spin two threads together to make 'yarn'.

Many of you know I started this some time ago. But I ran into a number of issues. The original was a model of a single-drive Saxony (or Cinderella) spinning wheel. But to get fibers (or threads) to spin requires a difference in speed between the bobbin and the flyer. With a single-drive this is accomplished by braking the bobbin with a tension-able band (a Scotch brake I think it's called). I realized this would be unlikely to accomplish on such a small scale. A double-drive system makes this more automatic.

I have a number of other requirements. For one, I didn't want it to look too 'machiney' (have at it Marv  ;D). For instance, to mate two bars together you might drill and tap through both and bolt them. But I didn't want the hole to be seen on the other side. I would like to see a bolt on both sides. Since the hole depth is on the order of 1/4" I had to think of something else. You'll see this shortly.

I'd like to really bling this up but I expect I'll save that for later. By which time I may be so disgusted with my work that I'll move on to something else before I 'finish' it.  ;D

I've finished the drawings and started some experimenting. I'm not too happy with the design of a couple of aspects (the bed and more importantly the stand that holds the maiden) but it's a first go.

A real challenge (besides the scale) will be the flywheel. 3.6" diameter. (It may not fit my lathe!). In the early thread I was needled into considering a spoked wheel (some of you know who did the needling...his name starts with 'M', ends with 'v', and has the letters 'a' and 'r' somewhere in-between). So the current design is a brass ring with aluminum spokes and a split aluminum hub screwed together to keep everything in place. No idea if that will work.

So here's some pics. Sorry for the quality. I hope to get better at this too.

Here's a pic of the prototype:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e44bf8c6.jpg)

Don't know why it's sideways. The original picture was but I rotated it in PB and it shows rotated correctly in PB. But hey...it's wood and we don't want to look at it too long.

Here's a bobbin:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/108af1f9.jpg)

It came out pretty well but I doubt it will work. I need to chamfer the grooves so the band won't slip off.

Here's what I meant about pinning two bars together. What I did was take 1/8" hex rod, made an 0-80 bolt and a 'pin'.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/0023ed96.jpg)

Here's the bolt in the pin:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/4c489ad9.jpg)

Here's two bars pinned together. The other side looks the same.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/7eb3953b.jpg)

This next pic shows part of the flyer assembly. Fairly small. It's the 4th attempt and still I either got the central hole off or the sides milled at different distances. It's pretty rough. I used a steel button to try and round the edges as well as rounding around the central hole. Not a good job and I'll try again later.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/7e2a8b83.jpg)

This pic shows one of the 'legs' of the flyer. That will be a challenge too. You have to have a way to move the fiber (thread) along the leg to fill the bobbin. On wood systems this is done with open eye-lets. I'm hoping spaced holes with a little slot to the side will do the same.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/84aa7e52.jpg)

I have no idea when I can continue to work on this. It may even die a quiet death as my attention is easily distracted.





Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on July 29, 2012, 04:55:51 PM
Carl,


I hope that you can stick with that. Small parts are as fascinating to see as they are difficult to make.


Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on July 29, 2012, 05:05:38 PM
Head "needler" checking in here.

I like the bolt and pin arrangement.  For a less (gag) "machiney" look you might want to try faceting the hex heads.  Spinning wheel builders working in wood would probably have glued and doweled such a half-lap joint but a decorative, rosehead-like metal joiner would not be too out of place.

If the flywheel exceeds your lathe capacity, there will probably be lots of volunteers to turn the ring for you.

It's looking good so far.  Stick with it.  Unusual projects like this are great teachers.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on July 29, 2012, 11:19:54 PM
Zee has a project going on MEM, and now all is right with the world!
Take all the time it takes, Carl.  I'm just happy it's here.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on July 29, 2012, 11:41:33 PM
What Dean said.  Yeah.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 30, 2012, 03:14:56 AM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the support.

I've been thinking about that flyer arm...and the difficulty getting the ends and middle rounded.
Thinking about how I might use the rotary table.
Thinking I have idea.
Thinking I won't know stupid till I try it.
Thinking I'll try it next weekend.
Hoping I can try it next weekend.
Wishing I could try it now.

Have to do the flyer arm before I can do the spindle. Much like doing the cylinder and fitting a piston to it.

Need to order the brass for the flywheel too.
Not to worry. I average 2 to 4 tries before I get it right. I'll order enough for 3.

This new forum has given me a kick. Not to mention the friends. Thanks for that.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on July 30, 2012, 03:03:27 PM
Zee, not to put any pressure on you, but it's good to see you have a project, metal working project that is!  Always enjoy following your threads.

Chuck
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Troutsqueezer on July 30, 2012, 03:49:52 PM
Brass in that diameter...gonna cost a bit. Good thing you've been working some overtime, eh? I've seen a few posts where someone is turning flywheels on the mini-lathe with a pretty good-sized flywheel, larger than what you need for this, so it is possible.

I suspect you and I are similar with respect to this hobby. That is, when I'm in the house or doing some of my other hobbies, I think about the machining hobby often enough but getting out there to the shed and actually doing it takes a bit of effort and often gets put on the back burner.  :smokin2:  :atcomputer:   :bandrock:  :happyreader:   But when I finally do get out there, I don't want to stop and find myself wondering why I waited so long to start working on my engines again.

Then the cycle repeats itself.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on July 30, 2012, 04:00:36 PM
Rounding the ends of the flyer arm...

Hang it between the jaws of the mill vise from a rod (diameter doesn't matter) resting on the tops of the vise jaws.  Adjust the height of the endmill above the vise jaws such that it will be cutting at the correct radius for the rounded over end.  Clamp part and make a cut.  Unclamp part, rotate slightly, make another cut.  Sip from jelly jar and repeat until ennui sets in or jelly jar is empty.

You'll end up with a faceted end on the part.  Slather it with marking out dye and file/sandpaper gently until all the dye has disappeared.  Sip from jelly jar.

I can't tell the part size from the picture but it looks too small for my other method to be safe. If the piece were larger, I would suggest rotating it on a vise-held pin against a spinning rotary file.  (Similar to the technique I use in the rounding over jig post I made recently.)  However, I think your hands would be too close to the tool for this to be safe.  Unless the part is a lot bigger than I think it is, don't try it.  My first technique above is safer since your hands don't have to be anywhere near the part while cutting.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on July 30, 2012, 04:44:08 PM
Another rounding ...

Unfortunately Carl, I don't remember just what shop equipment you have, but just in case: I have used a rotary table with clamps to hold a piece while applying Marv's technique. The advantage to this way is that once you have it roughed down close you can use the RT to mill the piece smooth. Also, it keeps the fingers out of the way.

Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on July 30, 2012, 06:32:01 PM
 ;D Good to see you making parts in the shop again Carl!

I'd agree with Marv about the rounding over - just be careful that you press down the piece well each time you rotate it a bit while clamping it up again.  And check that you don't get swarf under the rod in the process - if you happen to have swarf trapped under the rod, the next cut will be too deep... DAMHIKT  :-[

The rotary table will work as well - and you could even make your spin indexer do it with a bit of thought  ;)

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on July 31, 2012, 01:49:13 AM
Thanks guys. It's very much appreciated.

Chuck, it's good to see read you. Get your avatar up. It's a wonderful pic. Very comfortable.

Trout...very true what you said. Imagine my surprise when I logged onto HMEM and saw everyone gone! I knew it couldn't have been me. I hadn't worn the tu-tu in a long time. And yes...now that I've started...I can't stop thinking about machining. More on this in a bit. As for the brass...I haven't priced it yet. I figure on using plate 1/4" thick, 3.75 or 4" wide, and sufficient length to mess up at least twice. A foot I guess. Too little can be a project killer...too much is a new project creator. (And I hope to cut it in a way I can keep most of the center for other projects. Would it be stupid to use a hole saw?)

Alan...I've got a mini-lathe and a mini-mill. Also a spin indexer, a rotary table, and a couple of vises. I like that mini-mill. The mini-lathe is destined to go in the corner some day. I intend to get something larger but that's a few years off yet.

As I mentioned...I've been thinking a lot about this. I really hope I get a chance in the shop this weekend. But here's the thought...

It's a small piece, less than 1/4 by 1/4 by 1. With a hole in the middle, and two holes at the end. The holes at the end are drilled through to get a 0-80 in and bored 3/32 part way through to set a bit of rod in that the 0-80 attaches to. You'll remember the earlier picture.

The idea I'm thinking is...

Mill some 1/4x1/4 aluminum to the required height. The width doesn't matter.
Drill a hole anywhere near the center, smaller than the final hole.
Mount some scrap aluminum on the rotary.
Mill it flat.
Put some double-stick down and mount the part on that with a bolt.

Then mill the outline with a small end-mill.
Going slow and easy I should be able to cut the edges to the outline I want without the part twisting.
If that doesn't work...then maybe glue it down. I can also clamp one end while milling the other.

Then drill and bore the end holes.
Tap through the end holes and hold the part down with some small bolts.
Remove the center bolt and then drill and ream the center to size.

Description might not be good...but if I'm lucky...we'll see it happen this weekend. It's much like making that forward/reverse lever on the horizontal mill engine.

Gosh. I feel so excited.
Uh-oh...
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: vcutajar on August 01, 2012, 01:56:59 AM
An unusual project which makes it more interesting.  Will be following also.

Vince
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ironman123 on August 01, 2012, 04:19:29 AM
Me too.

Ray
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on August 02, 2012, 11:46:29 AM
Me Three

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on August 02, 2012, 12:39:06 PM
I can see the gears turning Carl....good to have you back!!

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 04, 2012, 11:34:09 PM
I promised myself a post...and here it is.

Woke up this morning all ready to go. Took care of some mundane tasks and it's shop time!
 :whoohoo:

The part to be made requires 1" of 1/4" square aluminum.
Grabbed a length and hacked off 2".
 :pinkelephant:

I figured I'd be optimistic and allow for only one 'fooey' for the wall of learning.
(But you already know I've taken 3 runs at this.  :ShakeHead:)

Then time for the vise to shave it down.

No it's not...

Snookered. I am called away.
Crap crap and...crap.  :rant:

So I'm thinking I can at least get a pic of the stock.

I mean, gee, it's the best hack job I've done.  ;D

Snookered. Some one ran off with my good camera.
Crap crap and...crap.  :rant:

Okay. I'll use the camera that I can't get a good macro pic out of.
Snookered. Some one ran off with the memory card.
Crap crap and...crap.  :rant:

Oughta change my name. Instead of Zeep it should be Snookie.
No. That won't work. Won't work at all.

I think my name is crap.

Crap crap and....




crap.

Waste of a post.
Was going to be a great post.
Woulda been a contender.
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on August 05, 2012, 03:45:48 AM
some days it doesn't pay to get outa bed Carl :LittleDevil:
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 05, 2012, 06:38:57 AM
Dear Crap;
Please don't give up on this crap.  Remember, your crap makes us happy.
We need your crap.  Your crap makes our crappy world go 'round.
Keep up the good crap!

 :toilet_claw:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on August 05, 2012, 04:57:09 PM
OK, Zee, I uploaded my 3-year old avatar.  Now I'm real!

I hate having to remake parts, but it happens to me all too often.  Not sure why I have such a hard time getting it right the first time.

Chuck
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on August 05, 2012, 05:41:52 PM
Didn't Louie Armstrong do a song about a guy named Snookie Z. Crapster?  :smokin2:  "Hey man, there goes Snookie Z'..."


Zee', I am also glad to see that this project did not get forgotten about. Though it has been a while, the old memories are coming back and it feels good, thanks.  :whoohoo:


BC1
Jim




Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 05, 2012, 06:27:56 PM
Dean! Noooo. I should never have suggested the name change. That kind of name can 'stick'. But I'll keep making crap, good or bad (for a while anyway).

Chuck. Good to 'see' you.

Thanks Jim.

Today is not looking good for machining either. Crap.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 05, 2012, 06:36:58 PM
No worries Zee......try try again!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on August 05, 2012, 11:09:35 PM
Hi Zee, Nice to see you back in the saddle.
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 06, 2012, 01:35:43 AM
That kind of name can 'stick'.
What.. so now you want to be called "booger"?  Make up your mind!

You are just making things way too easy, Carl...
(Marv might have something to say if we could be a little less high-brow in this conversation.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 06, 2012, 04:56:14 PM
Dean?  High-brow conversation?

Sorry, I simply can't mentally put those two together in any meaningful way.   :Jester:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 06, 2012, 06:48:33 PM
Work it out, Marv.  Put a few asterisks between some of the words and draw a line under it.
I'm sure it will start to make sense sooner or later.   :Lol:

(I'm sure glad all you guys are here!)

 :)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 06, 2012, 07:32:06 PM
Got it!

You're suffering from male-pattern baldness and your brow is elevating.  That's it, isn't it?  Yeah, that must be it.  :old:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 06, 2012, 10:24:09 PM
Got it!
You're suffering from male-pattern baldness and your brow is elevating. 
Nope, but it makes me happy to know you can still form a theory, Marv.
Alas, still spending $14 every two weeks at the barber shop.  Upside is, the barber is now a young lady.

 :fro:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2012, 12:19:30 AM
Might I interject here?  ;D
No worry guys. My threads are your threads.
Just keep it clean.  ;D

Got some things worked out and a little bit of progress. Very little...

Here's the hack job I mentioned earlier...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/8a4504a0.jpg)

Then I milled it to the height I needed and hacked it into two 'blanks'...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/39d7dddb.jpg)

Then it was time to mount the rotary table (a little too early as it turns out). This is how I did it...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/39062692.jpg)

Then I mounted a bit of bar and milled a flat spot to place the blanks...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/7033ae5e.jpg)

I found a Mac program to resize the pictures (but they didn't warn me it had a time limit!). Looking for a different freebie to do that as well as to adjust brightness. Suggestions welcome. I'd rather not use my Windows platform...I keep that one off the Net.

Note the Rube arrangement of dial indicators in the back.

It was at this point that craptitude struck again. Yes...'CRAPTITUDE'!!

Realization #1: I should have put the center hole in the blanks first. But I managed that by mounting the part on another spare part, clamping it onto the above work area, and drilling the hole. Had to eyeball it though because I didn't want to have to re-center the rotary table. Probably stupid. If I'm too far off there won't be enough 'side' to the part.

Realization #2: Once done I have to drill the center hole to the correct diameter. But there's a hole already there and the drill will probably follow that. I'm thinking when (if!) it comes to that time I can put a bit of spare aluminum on that and drill through that...hoping the drill will stay straight.

Realization #3: When I drilled the center hole there was sufficient vibration for my wonderful Rube creation to turn into...er...crap creation. Well we'll see how it goes. Milling the flat spot had no issues.

Realization #4: I haven't realized everything.

But hey...I touched my machines! This is a big thing considering how little time I've had for touching...anything. (I did get touched back by the vise I used to hack the blanks into two. Slipped and knocked my finger into some sharp corner. Hm...which has reminded me to look at it...oops...better get the Neosporin. At least it's the middle finger and will give a better effect when used appropriately at work.)

Good to see you Dave and Frazer.
Don't let the geezers keep you away.  :Jester:

Dean...To answer your question...it's 'Zee', 'Zeep', 'Zeepster' (not Zeep-meister or Zee-meister yet), Carl, or as you can see below...'Hey'. Other names are reserved for use by those I love ('idiot' is a favorite as well as 'turd' and you can guess who is allowed to call me those). You see the implication right?  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 07, 2012, 12:47:50 AM
Carl,

Yes, my apologies for the hijack.  What can I say? I'm descended from a long line of robber barons.

The first step when working in the shop is to turn on the lights before taking pictures.  After turning on the lights, assume the lotus position and intone the mantra...

Never remove a part from its parent stock until absolutely necessary.


"CRAPTITUDE"  I love it.  Your inventiveness with the language is astounding.  You should consider a career writing advertising scripts for as-seen-on-tv products.  Adult diapers spring instantly to mind.

"If I'm too far off there won't be enough 'side' to the part."  It just gets better...

Realization #4: I haven't realized everything."  and better.

Seriously (what, me?), it's great to see you getting back into harness.  You remember how this goes...  Hours of frustration and annoyance followed by one brief moment of satisfaction.  (Reminds me of my high school love life.) 


"Don't let the geezers keep you away."  I'll try to stay under my bridge.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2012, 01:13:08 AM
Thanks Marv.
I needed that. Really.

Ah...'Never remove a part from its parent stock...'
I can always count on you Marv.
I do keep that mantra in mind...sometimes after the fact.
But I'd like to get these kids out of the house.

As for adult diapers...I admit I've been paying more attention to those commercials. Gotta prepare for what the future may bring.

You're absolutely right...that brief moment of satisfaction is well worth the hours of frustration.

But drat...now you've got me thinking of high school again and the many...many...many...hours of frustration. Many. Hm...trying to remember those moments of satisfaction. Yes! I remember one.

Get out from under the bridge. You'll turn into a troll.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 07, 2012, 02:36:30 AM
Good to see you Dave and Frazer.
Don't let the geezers keep you away. 


Naaah   Marv don't scare me much....he's been giving me spelling lessons......He duz a grate jowb! :Jester:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 07, 2012, 03:16:38 AM
But hey...I touched my machines!
This is the best bit of all.  :)


Quote
Then it was time to mount the rotary table (a little too early as it turns out). This is how I did it...
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/39062692.jpg)

That's a good way to center up your RT, Carl.  Something faster, and accurate for a good bit of your work,
is to make a plug that will fit the RT bore, and also have a concentric stub coming out of the top part of the
plug that you can mount in a mill collet.  Then put the two together and bolt down the RT on the mill table.
An easy way to make the plug is to get a soft MT center to fit your RT and turn down the top part for the
shank that will fit into the mill spindle.
I know you are short on shop time.  That's just something for later.  Then, when you find you have
mounted the RT to your mill too soon, and don't want to take it off because you don't want to re-center
it, it's a non-issue.


Quote
I found a Mac program to resize the pictures (but they didn't warn me it had a time limit!). Looking for a different freebie to do that as well as to adjust brightness.

The software for your camera usually has a photo editor of some sort.
Maybe you could make your pics a little larger, next time.  They're pretty small.


Quote
Realization #2: Once done I have to drill the center hole to the correct diameter. But there's a hole already there and the drill will probably follow that.

Can you bore it?  The boring bar won't care if the starter hole is off center.



Quote
Milling the flat spot had no issues.

 :ThumbsUp:    :)    There's always a silver lining.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2012, 04:10:32 AM
Hi Dean,

Pictures kind of small? I've been converting them to 320x200. They don't look so small on my screen. I'll try to show some different sizes next time and see what you think. Odd.

I think I understand what you're saying about mounting the RT. Something that mounts to the spindle and fits the RT...and when you bring the spindle down...it basically centers the RT for you? That would be excellent. Thanks! Took me over a half hour to center the thing.

The software that came with the camera is pretty basic. Just a download and browse function. Nothing to edit, modify, or resize. Seemed kind of strange seeing that it's a Canon. One would think the manufacturer would want to give you cool tools. But maybe there's some more stuff from their site.

Bore the hole? I suppose it's possible. But it's only 5/32 diameter. That would mean making my own cutter. Gasp! That brings up some memories!  :Lol:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2012, 04:17:32 AM
Been waiting for someone to suggest a name for my shop...
This thread has given me some ideas...

'crap-shop' comes to mind.  :ROFL:

And it's not all my crap.  ;D

But it's all good.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 07, 2012, 05:58:37 AM

'crap-shop' comes to mind. 

No, man!  Something fun, and nice.  Like "Jelly Jar Engineering" or "The Squash-Works".
All the stuff I wrote here about "crap" was just silly talk, you know.  ;)

About the pictures;  On my screen, which is set to 1280 x 800, your pics show up as 2.5" x 2".  They look
pretty small.  Maybe my screen res is set higher than other folks.
When I put pictures up, do they look really big to you?  I size mine to show up as 6x4 or 7x5 inches on
my screen.

I'm sending you a PM about a photo-editor I have.

DW
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on August 07, 2012, 09:06:17 AM
 ;D What a lovely way to start a morning!

Carl's been in the shop and is as fascinating as ever :ThumbsUp:

 Then to find a good bit of banter going on - have to clean the coffee off my keyboard now.

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on August 07, 2012, 12:29:25 PM
Hey, you!  Zeep-meister!  (I've always wanted to do that)

In order to center a rotary table, I use a large bull nosed center.  It's MT3, which fits in the spindle of the mill.  I carefully lower it into the center hole of the RT, and that gets it pretty near perfect.  Note that you might have to bore out the center hole so it is concentric with the axis of rotation, which is not necessarily the center of the table.  Quick and dirty, but it serves for most of my efforts.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Troutsqueezer on August 07, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
I run standard HD resolution (1920 X 1280) on my monitor, the pics are kinda dinky.  :o

Zee, you keep the Windows machine off the net, eh? Is that because of viruses? I think in 32 years of computing (yes, the TRS-80), I may have had one, maybe two viruses and neither of those did any harm. Of course, I don't know where you like to surf when away from this forum.  :Jester:

-Trout

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 07, 2012, 04:27:48 PM
+1 on the cone used to rough center the RT for all but the most demanding jobs.  Snug the RT hold down bolts and let the cone push the RT into alignment, then tighten hold-downs.

The pictures look tiny to me too.  As a reference point, I size mine to 800 x 600 before uploading to Photobucket.  IMO, anything smaller than 640 x 480 is too small.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 07, 2012, 10:39:37 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the pics all.

Arnold...hope the keyboard is okay. Don't drink and read.

Dean...thanks. I'll take a look at it soon.

rleete...thanks.

Trout...you may be better protected than I. It's an old laptop and I haven't bothered to refresh the anti-virus stuff.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: gjn on August 07, 2012, 11:42:39 PM
Zee

If you are after free image processing software to run on your Mac platform you could try GIMP. It may be overkill for what you need to do but it will do just about anything Photoshop will do, it's open source and therefore free to use. www.gimp.org/ (http://www.gimp.org/)

Rgds - Gavin
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 08, 2012, 12:14:40 AM
Thanks Gavin!  :ThumbsUp:

I have Gimp. Didn't even think about it. I had gotten it a while back when I was fooling around with iPhone apps.

Took it for a quick spin and yes...looks like it has everything I want.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 11, 2012, 09:16:00 PM
Some of you would call this 'a disaster'.
I call it 'coming home'.  ;D A comfortable place when what happens is as expected.

Some of you knew this was going to happen.
Thank you for allowing me to stumble.  ;D Stubbing a toe is a quick teacher to watch where you go.
(Unless there's a potential safety issue - then yell at me!.)

As you may recall, I had misgivings about clamping the part down onto tape. Rather, about clamping the part down at one point (the pivot point! ha!). Ah yes...snicker away my friends...snicker away. A bigger laugh is on the way.

I began by (mis)understanding the cutting path. Here's a pic...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e40b3da3.jpg)

The line is 1/32 away from the desired profile (using a 1/16 end mill).
Cutting from the right, the critical dimension is the distance from center before rotating the part.

Ah yes. Rotating the part. Aside from the nagging suspicion that the part wouldn't hold still and, at best, I'd see chatter along the cut, something bothered me about rotating the part. This was reinforced when I went to the mill wondering why I only needed to move the Y axis in one direction.

This was further reinforced by the memory that whether the nagging comes from inside (or via the ears...you know what I mean)...one should listen.

As I placed the end mill I was also concerned that the shank of the end-mill would hit the top of the bolt (the end-mill expands from 1/16 to 3/16).

The last concern I had was that it didn't appear the part was wide enough. This just couldn't be the case. The blank is 0.25 wide and I was cutting it to 7/32. Oh.  :facepalm:

And so all came to pass...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/546679a0.jpg)

Chatter...
Didn't even touch the middle...
Rotated too far. I saw that that was going to happen...but at that point it became a different kind of fun to keep going. (By the way, I had used a paper model to practice. I don't practice too well do I?)

Shank didn't touch the bolt!  :whoohoo:

I made a spare blank!  :whoohoo:
The blank's not wide enough.  :facepalm:

Time to celebrate  :cheers:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 11, 2012, 10:09:34 PM
The last concern I had was that it didn't appear the part was wide enough. This just couldn't be the case. The blank is 0.25 wide and I was cutting it to 7/32. Oh. 

I admit to not quite understanding what we (that's you) are doing here, but on your drawing it looks like what
you wanted was 9/32" rather than 7/32"?   I did say;  "not quite understanding"...  ;)

Your pictures are bigger now, Zee.  :)  Actually, they go clear off the page.  (I'm sorry.  I really am!)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on August 11, 2012, 11:13:22 PM
Sorry Zee but I had to have a good chuckle :ROFL: oh dear.
Not tyring to tell my granny how to suck eggs but why not use filling buttons they would save all the setting up on the rotary
Good to see you using you're machines again and enjoying the good humour that's always part of you're builds
Good luck.
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 11, 2012, 11:30:37 PM
Hi Dean.

Sorry for the quality of the picture. The diameter of the middle section is supposed to be 7/32. Using a 1/16 end-mill means I want to place the end-mill half the diameter of the middle plus half the diameter of the end-mill away. Or (7/32 + 1/16) / 2 = 9/64.

Going along the leg...the same thing. The leg is 5/32 wide. So (5/32 + 1/16) /2 = 7/64.

What the drawing shows is the distance I had to stop from center before rotating. 9/64 is the hypotenuse and 7/64 is the height. d = square root (h squared - height squared).

I know everyone knows that.  ;D Just saying what the diagram shows.

I think it's right and that what happened was the part moved, or more likely, I stopped too early and started rotating. I should have marked the dial indicator with my stopping point...I think I stopped too early. What confused me in part was that the original design did have an intended flat.

I'm glad you asked. It helps the post-mortem.

As for the pictures...hm...I resized to 800x600. I'll try the 640x480 too.

Thanks Dean!

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 11, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
Hi Frazer.

I tried using buttons the first time (well the first time I had a good enough part to work with  ;D ) but the part is so small I really struggled with that. (I didn't really try too hard though.)

Buttons should work but when I thought about the rotary table I thought it'd be good to try.

The part is pretty small...but I have another (better?) idea for clamping the part down. I'd thought about it before. Again, I should have listened to myself. (But no one else listens to me...why should I?)

Thanks Frazer.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on August 11, 2012, 11:48:54 PM
Cheers Zee, Thanks for the explanation its a lot clearer now
best wishes
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 12, 2012, 07:06:16 AM
'

You had me at hypotenuse.... 

We're listening to you, Zee!  Yes we are.  :)  Try starting with a larger piece of metal.  You can put a hole in it
anywhere and call that center.  It will make things easier for holding and, you can put clamps on the edges and
not have to worry about the cap screw being in the center hole.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2012, 03:46:35 PM
Carl, not sure if I am following the entire situation or not but do have one suggestion.  If I understand correctly, you were trying to machine the arm section of the part and then once you got to the correct coordinates (what you refer to as the hypotenuse) then rotate the rotary table to form the larger circular end.  Rather than finding the coordinates of this point what if you tried finding the beginning and ending angles of rotation instead. For example, if the top part of the large circle is 12:00 o'clock, then you would be machining from say 10 o'clock clockwise all the way around to 8 o'clock give the part orientation in your picture.  Obviously this would be done more accurately in degrees rather than clock positions, but hope the idea is related. You would still have to move the rotary table y axis by a distance equal to the radius plus 1/2 the endmill dia. (or even more and then ease back to that setting for the final cut) but then you are always working from the  center of the large circle. Not sure if this helps or not, just another way to look at the problem.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 12, 2012, 03:49:45 PM
Well this is embarrassing. And this icon is insufficient.  :-[
Stupid really. What was I thinking? :slap:

Oh yes...I played around with a paper model and pencil for an end-mill.
Didn't model the table though.

So as I moved the paper model back and forth...what else moves?
Why the center of the rotary table. Say the capitalized syllables slowly with me...

The RO-TA-RY table. The RO-TA-RY table with a PI_VOT center.
A PI-VOT center that moves WITH the RO-TA-RY table.

This became all too clear as I did a post-portem with the part still in place.

Then it came back to me. When I built the Horizontal Mill engine and used the rotary table.
The jig allowed the part to slide along the table so that the part to be rounded would have its center at the pivot center of the table.

Hm...wonder if I can find that picture...
Ah yes...here it is...
You can see the part mounted on a block that slides along a bar.

do-over time!!!  :whoohoo:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/1bd19484.jpg)
 

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 12, 2012, 03:53:01 PM
Bill,

Thanks. I was wondering the same thing earlier.

What may have confused people is that I wasn't clear that the legs had to be rounded in addition to the middle.

Had I shown a drawing of the part then I don't doubt everyone here would have jumped up and down and yelled :Wait! Wait Carl. You got it wrong!".  ;D

Thanks for looking in.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 12, 2012, 04:09:51 PM
I had to have broken at least 3 of Marv's rules.  ;D
What an opportunity.  :pinkelephant:

Aren't you guys glad you're not me?

Be kind Marv. I have a cold.  :'(
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
Carl, a quick sketch of what i was referring to...probably much clearer than my word description.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 12, 2012, 04:22:15 PM
Aren't you guys glad you're not me?

Not gonna touch it, not gonna touch it, not gonna touch it...
(Sitting on my hands helps.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dan Rowe on August 12, 2012, 04:25:26 PM
Carl,
Everyone reading this has has a bin of parts that did not quite work out.

I have been known to attempt the same wrong path several times before the light came on. :Jester:

Dan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 12, 2012, 04:33:59 PM
Bill...That helped. A lot. Re-reading the post was more clear. Thanks.

Dan...you must have been reading me while I was reading you. Thanks.

Marv...'not gonna touch it'? That's it? What a missed opportunity. Well I'll be sure to provide more.  :naughty:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 12, 2012, 04:36:13 PM
Marv...'not gonna touch it'? That's it? What a missed opportunity. Well I'll be sure to provide more.  :naughty:

I have the utmost confidence in you, Zee.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 17, 2012, 01:56:21 AM
OK Zee....where's the rest of this build.....I just read through and now have coffee stains on my shirt.....mustache too!

 :ROFL:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 04:17:24 PM
rleete and Marv...

I'd been thinking about your thoughts in centering the rotary table...

Came up with this...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/6bb1871a.jpg)

It turned out the die holder I have has a 3/4" diameter section before becoming 0.56 for the die holder itself. (Why 0.56 I have no idea.) It's a 2 Morse taper for the lathe's tail-stock and is the same for the rotary table.

Popped that into a 3/4" collet, brought it down into the rotary table, then clamped the table.

Just to see...I mounted the dial indicator and checked the concentricity of the center hole by rotating the table.

It moved by .0002 by the time I got to the far side and then back to zero.
Seems good enough for me.

Took seconds instead of the usual 20-30 minutes.

Worth a 'ta-da' no?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 19, 2012, 04:30:28 PM
Definitely worth a ta-da.  In fact, it's worth a...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2QdFrcTFU

You're getting into the region where you have enough "stuff" such that you can begin thinking about putting it together in new and unintended ways to solve your particular problems.  That's an exciting creative zone.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 06:02:20 PM
Thanks Marv. Might be a bit premature...

After what seemed hours to get things set, clamped, and perform some dry runs...it was time to drill the 1st hole.

peck peck peck snap crap crap crap

Well there was actually quite a bit of pecking before snapping. No so much (I won't say it) afterwards.

Time to set this part of the project aside. Learned quite a bit but I may just go back to the original way of making the part...of which I already have one now.

Drill bit stuck in aluminum. An opportunity to try the alum trick.

So I'm thinking about the flywheel and would like any one's thoughts...

Here's a quickie drawing...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e8e8653d.jpg)

The rim is brass 3.6" diameter. 0.20" thick. The inner diameter is 2.5"

15 total parts plus a couple of bolts.

Spokes, hub, and end of spokes that 'attach' to flywheel are aluminum.
Might make the end of spokes and spokes as one part.

The hub is in two halves. Bolting them together to capture the spokes.

As a side note...the calculation of the length of spokes takes into account the distance from the inner rim to the chord created by the end of spoke.

Main concern is whether this will be tight enough for the parts not to wobble.

Keep in mind the rpm is very low. It's a spinning wheel powered by finger treadle.

If all this makes sense...then I'm also wondering how to take out the inner part of the flywheel.
1/4" plate. Hole saw? Mount on a rotary table and mill it out?




Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on August 19, 2012, 07:03:42 PM
Zee, in my experience, the biggest problem with flywheels, other than making them, is getting them to run true, particularly with built up flywheels.  When I make built-up flywheels, I like to do finishing cuts and bore the center hole after the flywheel is assembled.  This usually means that it needs to be pretty robust.  I think your design would be strong enough.

If I'm interpreting your drawing correctly, it looks like the spokes are inserted into blind holes on the inside of the rim?  How are you going to make those holes?

Chuck

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 07:29:46 PM
Thanks Chuck. Yes, the last operation is to bore the center hole.

As for the holes in the rim...there aren't any.
What I'm thinking (I'll call it that for now) is...

Here's the spoke itself...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/cccb0716.jpg)

One end fits in this...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e9d9f67d.jpg)

That's the hub. It's in two pieces with holes around the circumference for the spokes. Bolted together.

This is what's on the other end of the spoke (if I make it two pieces)...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/c41e3d64.jpg)

Tiny! It slips onto the rim and the spoke pokes into a hole in that.

To help, I'm thinking of mounting the rim onto the rotary table and milling a half moon (or such) at each of the six places where that last part goes. The distance from the bottom of that part where the spoke is inserted to the inner rim has to take into account the chord made by that part to the rim (i.e. the rim is curved but the part that fits onto it is not).

Here also is a drawing of the crank...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/32c75553.jpg)

This should be a fun job too. Never have done something like this. Made of a single piece of brass. Maryak and others have some nice threads describing how to make it.

Now I'm going to see what it takes to order the brass for the rim and crank. Could be a project buster.  ;D

Edit: Not all dimensions are shown. These aren't final drawings...er...scribblings.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 19, 2012, 07:35:45 PM
Sorry to hear about the drill turned HSS insert.  Were you using kerosene as a lubricant?  Al likes to weld to drills, especially small ones.  Kero prevents that.  The alum will work faster if you make a saturated solution and keep it warm on a hot plate.

No offense but the spokes look a bit mechanistic.  The spinning wheels I've seen had decoratively turned spokes.   A single or double taper on the spokes would go a long way to feminizing the design.

Quote
If all this makes sense...then I'm also wondering how to take out the inner part of the flywheel.
1/4" plate. Hole saw? Mount on a rotary table and mill it out?

Hole saw, definitely.  Save the expensive slug for a future project.  Besides, hole saws are handy tools to have around the house anyway.  If, prior to hole-sawing, you mount the plate on a sacrificial backing, you can do the job on the lathe and, as soon as done, trim the ID with a boring bar.

Let me reinforce what Chuck said about getting flywheels to run true.  Bore, not drill, the center hole after assembly.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 07:48:15 PM
Thanks Marv.

Kerosene eh? Guess what I forgot...  :facepalm: ...any kind of lubricant at all.

Trying to enjoy this hobby with lapses of months at a time doesn't help me remember what I need to do. Seems like I've used cutting oil or WD-40 in the past. I have kerosene but I'm not too comfortable bringing it into the basement. Guess I can bring in a small amount in some safer container.

As for the center hole... It's only 3/16 diameter. I said drilling as the last operation...but meant reaming. Drill undersize then ream. That's how I've done all the flywheels so far.

Got the price for 12" of 1/4 by 4" brass. $60!!! Gotta go try and earn that...
"Dear? Can I help with the laundry? Need some weeding done? How about a nice back rub?"

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 19, 2012, 08:04:16 PM
WD40 is little more than deodorized kero.  You can safely use it in place of kero but kero is a lot cheaper.  That way you can save the WD40 for the unknown job for which it was designed.  Anyway, get out your crayons and write it in all capitals in your shop notebook - USE LUBRICANT WHEN DRILLING HOLES, ESPECIALLY SMALL ONES, IN MOST METALS EXCEPT BRASS.

Kero isn't that dangerous.  Sure it burns but so does lots of stuff you have in your house.  Get some small wash bottles as used in chem labs and you'll be fine.

Drilling and reaming will probably be ok but remember the litany...

Drills produce holes that are neither round, straight or on size.

Drill to remove material quickly.
Bore to straighten hole.
Ream to bring to size.

Yeah, brass is really pricey.  Wooden spinning wheels were typically made up of six chordal segments splined together.  You could do something similar with Loctite or braze in place of splines to avoid the need to get a large plate.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 08:20:11 PM
get out your crayons and write it in all capitals in your shop notebook - USE LUBRICANT WHEN DRILLING HOLES, ESPECIALLY SMALL ONES, IN MOST METALS EXCEPT BRASS.

Done. Added it to the other one...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/03746e14.jpg)

It'll be in the shop notebook too...soon as I find it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on August 19, 2012, 08:31:38 PM
Hi Zee, you will get there just keep the post it notes and make a book Marvs bed side reader all good tips
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 19, 2012, 08:45:28 PM
Sch?n.  Now where's the one with the drill litany?  (We Germans are never satisfied.  Don't believe me?  Just ask the Czechs.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 09:31:43 PM
Now where's the one with the drill litany?

Found my shop notebook!

We Germans are never satisfied.  Don't believe me?

Nat?rlich glaube ich Sie.
Ich bin die erste Generation Deutsch auf meiner Mutter Seite.

I have to admit to cheating with an online translator (and I don't trust it's grammar or vocabulary). It's been many years since I've used German. I remember when we came back stateside and I took German in school. Teacher and I had trouble understanding each other for a while. I had learned my German from all my Bavarian relatives. Simple things like 'Ich'. Most of my relatives pronounced it 'e'. Never liked 'ish'. Drove me nuts when other kids used 'ick'.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 19, 2012, 10:11:47 PM
Found the brass for $41!

she: "What'd you buy?"
me: "I saved $19"
she: "Okay"

If it works for her...it should work for me.  ;D
She's a good teacher.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 19, 2012, 11:12:33 PM
I'll spare you my opinion of Bayerische Deutsch and its crippled cousin, Schweizer Deutsch.

It always sounds to me as if they have their mouth full of dough.  They can understand me well enough but I can only catch the occasional word from them.

They do know how to party though.  Which reminds me that Oktoberfest is only 33 days away.  I must go and oil the hinge on my stein.

Anyway, Gr?ss Gott and all that.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 19, 2012, 11:33:05 PM
I'm glad you have these notes in crayon, Zee.  That way, they you bind them in book form they will be in
a writing I'm familiar with.
I use kero or WD-40 interchangeably for machining aluminum.  Just keep a small jar of kero, if that's what
you want to use.  I keep mine in one of those small pimento jars, and use a little paint brush to dab it on.
It helps a lot.  For a small quantity of kero, buy a pint bottle of lamp oil.  That's it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on August 20, 2012, 12:17:06 AM
Zee, you may have already thought of this, but here is a somewhat simpler method for making a flywheel.

(http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z195/cffellows/cede0c7e.png)

The inner rim has through holes that the spokes are inserted through into matching holes in the hub.  The outer rim is then pressed over the inner rim with an interference fit locking the spokes in place.  Loctite can be used in both the rim and the hub to help lock the spokes in place.

Chuck
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 20, 2012, 12:56:59 AM
Marv...Prost! And yes...the Bavarians, especially those around Munich, love to party. That's the only thing makes me question my background.  ;D I'm not a big party guy. I tend to party with myself...or family.

Dean! Thanks for looking in. Was about to PM you cause I hadn't seen you recently. I've got some kerosene. Got it when I bought the mini-lathe so I could clean it up. Should still be good.

Chuck...thanks. No I hadn't thought of that. That would work too. I've seen some threads where people pressed rims within rims. Takes some heat and cold don't it? Inner rim could be aluminum then I guess. We'll see how my first attempt goes. I do want to remember that idea though.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 12:08:46 AM
Got the brass stock to make the rim of the wheel.
Enough for two tries or even a third if I don't bother with the crank.  :o

But even though there's always success in failure...I'd like to try and make it in one go.

I ask for advice...

The final part is a rim. 3.6" OD, 2.5" ID, 0.2" thick with a groove around the outer circumference.
Stock material is 1/4" thick 4" by 4" plate (or will be when I hack it up...did I just jinx myself?)

Basic question is...how would 'you' do it?

I figure the 1st step is to hack off the corners (there...I said it again).
Mount it on the mill with sacrificial aluminum plate underneath.
Then hole saw something near the 2.5" (but under!!!).

From there I got options...or think I do...

If I mill the sacrificial plate flat (or not)...I can bore the inner diameter in the mill.

RATS! I have the boring head but no boring tools to fit it. Fat lot of good that is. I'll have to take care of that.

I don't think I can use the boring head to do the outer rim. Looks a tad too far.
Just for larks I mounted the boring head (for the very 1st time!), offset it, and oh-boy! did the table shake. Low speed is all I would be able to do.

So...bore the inside and mount it on the lathe.
Ah...but it's only going to be 0.2" thick. Using a spacer (or spider), is there enough to hold onto?

Turn the OD. Hm...is it concentric?
Maybe put the groove in at this point.
Then face one side.
Flip it and face the other side.

Could also use a flycutter on the mill (before the hole saw) to take to thickness.

If I'm lucky...and we all know my track record thus far...I'll make some other bits this weekend.

Thanks for any help.

Telling me to take up another hobby is no help.  ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 25, 2012, 12:52:34 AM
Zee,

Do you have a Rotary table and a mill:

You could mount it on a sacraficial plate to a rotary table by clamping the rim and then using an end mill, mill a circular slot and take the center out of the "dounut".   then, without moving the part,  put clamps on the inside and mill the outside round using the same method.

Using a lathe:

Knock the corners off the square to make it as round as you can. Leave a good 1/8" of stock at least on the OD.  Put a center hole into the center of the plate on the drill press.   Mount to a faceplate while on top of a sacraficial plate underneath.  This plate could very well be heavy plywood faced flat, but it should be attached to the faceplate.     Press the plate up against the sacraficial plate tightly with the tail stock/live center.   Taking light cuts, turn the OD to size.  While still mounted, add clamps to the faceplate clamping on the finished OD.   Withdraw the tailstock, and drill out the center.  Bore the center to size.

Alternatively:

Mount the square in a 4 jaw chuck.   Get it running with minimum run out.    Bore the center to size.....watch the jaws.    Once complete, saw off most of the corner waste.   Now mount on the 4 jaw chuck by the ID. and turn the od to size.

This is less attractive, because of the likelyhood of distortion by the 4 jaw chuck.   

Personally, I would start with a piece of tubing...turn the ID/ OD and part off.....but If I had to , I'd rather start with the rotary table....then the faceplate.

Hope that helps

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 25, 2012, 12:58:36 AM
Do you have a rotary table?  Judicious use of an RT solves a lot of your stock holding problems and obviates the need for a hole saw and all the attendant opportunities for screw-ups that tool offers.  With an RT you can cut near to size, then super glue to sacrificial plate and fine tune on lathe for size and finish.

edit: Dave types faster than I.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 01:18:28 AM
Thanks Dave and Marv.

I do have a rotary table.

Is the idea to mount it on the RT, use an end mill, and simply rotate it for the inner/outer cuts?

I can certainly see doing that to rough out the OD. I like it better than interrupt cutting on the lathe.

Is it better than the hole saw for the middle? I'm not too worried about losing (wasting) the inner material. It's at most 2.5" diameter and 1/4" thick. Who knows when/if I would want that. If I used a 1/4" end mill I'd still save near 2" round.

Super glue to plate and lathe it for final OD/ID and facing? Very scary to me. Happy to try it though.

So the idea of having less than 0.2" to hold onto in the lathe is not a good one?

BTW: re 'success in every failure'. Just wanted to point out I didn't say "who's" success.
Sometimes mine. Sometimes those who want to see me fail for whatever reason.
Example: "Oh good...he's going to give up that stupid idea now"  :Lol:

Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on August 25, 2012, 02:20:35 AM
Hi Zee,

I would:

Rough out the OD as already said and finish bore the centre hole.

Next Make a tapered mandrel, 0.0005" : 1" taper, turning the mandrel between centres so that it is around0.002" bigger than the centre bore of the flywheel at the large end. The large end of the taper is at the headstock.

The flywheel will now slide up the mandrel to the point where it grips.

Now you can finish off the flywheel between centres but always cut towards the headstock thus forcing the disc against the taper.

A light tap on the mandrel should release it from the flywheel and if needed the disk can be reversed and any machining required carried out on the other side.

You'll soon know if you try and take too big a bite as the wheel will stop turning. Light cuts are the order of the day. But it is a very accurate way to ensure concentricity of your flywheel.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 04:46:40 PM
Thanks Bob.
Not sure I understand but it seems the mandrel would be on the order of 2.5" in diameter. A bit too big for my little mini-lathe. Also wondering, with a taper, that only the edge of the inner circle would be against the taper. I'm thinking the side pressure would push it slant-wise.

Saw Jo's post making the rings. That's 'exactly' what I need to do except the sides need to be faced to 0.2 thickness, and the inner/outer diameters perfectly concentric. Not to mention the groove on the outer diameter.

I don't have the experience to know whether I, or my equipment is capable...so I should set my expectations for a trial before maybe, hopefully, getting the part right the 2nd time.

But on that note...here's comes another post.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 05:11:53 PM
Well this is just getting frustrating.  :disappointed:

I manage just a couple of hours on a weekend to do some machining. So I feel rushed. Dangerous at worst, but subject to (silly, stupid) mistakes at best it seems.

Today I thought I'd make the legs. Simple right? At first I thought I was done before I got started. The other day I had snapped the drill bit I needed for tapping 0-80. But then I found another I'd bought many moons ago.  :whoohoo:

The legs have an 0-80 on either end. Got some 3/16 aluminum rod and drilled one end. What a difference a better drill bit makes!  :Love: Things are looking up. Right. This is zeep's post remember.  :Director:

Needed to turn the rod down to 0.125 for 2". Mounted the tailstock with a center against the hole I'd drilled. Turned it down to 0.13 and took some measurements. 0.14 at the head end, 0.13 at the tail end.

The mumbling began...'poo'...rising to a crescendo of 'crap!'  :cussing:

Should have checked for runout when I mounted the thing but frankly it still would have been off. Side to side is one thing but my tailstock sits too high. (I determined that many months ago...but forgot.)

In the back of my mind is the fact that this model requires very small parts. Anything that's off is easily seen.

Also in the back of my mind is the lack of experience and maybe I should work on something else to gain more.

Also in the back of my mind is the desire for a better/larger lathe. But blocking that from getting to the front of my mind is time, money, and the need to justify this venture with some success. I have to wait for  :old:

So crap. I'm frustrated.
Success out of failure.
Yeah...sure.

 :noidea:

Wait a second. So the leg has a bit of a taper eh? So make all four with the same taper. Thick end at the bottom of the model. Hm. Might not look bad.  :whoohoo:

But now I'm out of time.  :cussing:





Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 25, 2012, 05:18:35 PM
Consider flycutting the stock to the 0.2" thickness before forming the ring.

After cutting the ring on the RT...

clamps on outside
cut central hole
clamps inside central hole
cut outer circumference of annulus

you can use the same procedure to clamp (not glue) the annulus to a sacrificial plate on the lathe for final trimming.  Just remember to not loosen the outside clamps until the inside clamps are in place.  With the thickness already established, there's no need to face the workpiece in the lathe.

With this procedure you have good, safe control of the workpiece at every stage of the process.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on August 25, 2012, 08:13:50 PM
Carl, 2 cents and a lot of words worth a token of support from another fairly newbie...
"Well this is just getting frustrating.  :disappointed: "
Therein lies the challenge and the fun, and more importantly the learning.  Cue music from "The A-Team":  Should you choose to accept your mission...

"I manage just a couple of hours on a weekend to do some machining. So I feel rushed. Dangerous at worst, but subject to (silly, stupid) mistakes at best it seems."
To quote the old saying - "More haste makes less speed" - the project won't run away; work fast in areas where you're comfortable at working fast, but take your time on bits that are complex or are new machining steps.

"Today I thought I'd make the legs. Simple right? At first I thought I was done before I got started. The other day I had snapped the drill bit I needed for tapping 0-80. But then I found another I'd bought many moons ago.  :whoohoo: "
Marv's suggestion on acquiring small drill bits rules.  I am inclined to buy less at a time of the really small ones, as they become more expensive the smaller they get; a 0.5mm (0.02") quality drill bit costs the same as the same make 13mm (~1/2") bit locally.  Guess which one breaks or gets lost the easiest  ::)

"Needed to turn the rod down to 0.125 for 2". Mounted the tailstock with a center against the hole I'd drilled. Turned it down to 0.13 and took some measurements. 0.14 at the head end, 0.13 at the tail end.
The mumbling began...'poo'...rising to a crescendo of 'crap!'  :cussing:
Should have checked for runout when I mounted the thing but frankly it still would have been off. Side to side is one thing but my tailstock sits too high. (I determined that many months ago...but forgot.)"
IMhO 0.01" out over that distance isn't caused by your tailstock sitting too high; it's more likely caused by the tailstock sitting about 0.005" too close toward yourself, or slightly rotated counter clockwise off the lathe axis.
Time to pause, break out the DTI and clock things up a bit.  I have suggestions around the steps if you want, and I'm sure our more experienced friends will have a lot more  :ThumbsUp:

"In the back of my mind is the fact that this model requires very small parts. Anything that's off is easily seen."
 ;) Now that's a fact!

"Also in the back of my mind is the lack of experience and maybe I should work on something else to gain more."
How much do you WANT it  ;) -  IMHO there's more to be learned from taking on a tough project and sticking it out to the end.  Unless you want to take a break and make up some tailstock die holders  :thinking:

"Also in the back of my mind is the desire for a better/larger lathe. But blocking that from getting to the front of my mind is time, money, and the need to justify this venture with some success. I have to wait for  :old: "
 8) You already have the best tool; it's between your ears.  The machines in the shop are just an extension of that one  ;) .  I have to admit that it's nice to upgrade machines and get toys like DROs and so on, but at the end of the day, that's just a convenience to make work quicker.  It doesn't prevent broken drill or milling bits or chipped lathe toolbits.  In fact, I've found more accuracy from judiciously applied manual labor using files and emery than my machines gives me  ;D . 

"So crap. I'm frustrated." - Channel it: - "I'm frustrated" = "Heck, this is a nice new challenge to overcome and learn from - even if I have to do it the hard way"

"Success out of failure.
Yeah...sure.
 :noidea:
Wait a second. So the leg has a bit of a taper eh? So make all four with the same taper. Thick end at the bottom of the model. Hm. Might not look bad.  :whoohoo: "
Now, THAT's the spirit  ;D
"But now I'm out of time.  :cussing: " - SIGH; that also happens all too quickly, doesn't it ?

Just stick in there buddy; the hardest-won things are the most appreciated  :ThumbsUp:

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 08:46:36 PM
Thanks Marv.
I did think about flycutting. But haven't been able to figure out how to mount it. Too big for the vise and it's as wide as my mill bed. Working on some other ideas. I have some length of aluminum plate so I'll practice on that.

Arnold! Thanks for the support. Just having a low point. No one ever said the road is level.
Your suggestion of music is a good one. I'll try some OMD.

Hey! Don't rain on my dream for a new lathe.  ;D



Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on August 25, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
Hi Carl ,good luck with the dreams but get one before :old:
A quick and easy way to check tailstock alignment simply place a dead centre each end, headstock\tailstock and gently nip a razor blade between them not tool room techniques but good enough for a rough arse like me.
Time or the lack of is always as problem for wage slaves like us but one day maybe :Lol: god willing
The spinning wheel is coming on you will get there just eat the elephant a bit at a time
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 25, 2012, 09:46:23 PM
Quote
I did think about flycutting. But haven't been able to figure out how to mount it. Too big for the vise and it's as wide as my mill bed. Working on some other ideas.

The plate is bigger than the final part size, nicht wahr?  (It better be or you have a more serious problem.)  You only need to flycut the portion that will become the part.  If it's still a problem, consider carpet tape.  Super glue doesn't do well in shear.  If you must use it provide a backstop for the part to take the shear loading.

Another option is to drill some holes in the central portion that will be removed and use those to bolt the stock to the table.  You no longer have an usullied scrap piece but, hey, eggs-omelettes, etc..

Oh, and Arnold is correct.  Vertical off-centering of the tailstock does not appreciably affect taper in the part.  It's the horizontal maladjustment that will get you.  Most (good) lathes came new from the factory with the TS slightly high so, as the base of the TS wore away, the alignment would improve, not get worse.  (Of course, at some point you go through zero but by then the rest of the lathe is sufficiently worn to require renovation.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 10:26:08 PM
Hi Marv. Thanks.

Yes my thoughts have been bolting the center down. Was originally thinking of just setting the end mill down on the 'rim' and rotating the table. Could do the same with a small flycutter instead of flycutting the whole plate. Hadn't thought of it that way. With the practice aluminum I can try both and see what happens. Can mill the outside rim too but haven't figured out how to bolt from outside to do the inside. Again...not enough room. The final part is almost the same diameter as the table. And...not convinced I'd get a good finish. Not as important for the outside because it'll be grooved though.

Interesting thought on the vertical. Two more legs to go so I'll keep trying.

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 25, 2012, 10:37:20 PM
I seem to remember encouraging you to make the over-sized sacrificial table for your RT so you would have room to clamp larger pieces.

I won't say, "I told you so."  No sir, I won't say that at all.  That would be mean.  Nope, won't do it. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 25, 2012, 10:39:42 PM
Also in the back of my mind is the lack of experience and maybe I should work on something else to gain more.

So crap. I'm frustrated.
Success out of failure.
Yeah...sure.

Carl, time for a little "pump-you-up" talk;
First, the part in the back of your mind telling you the "lack of experience" stuff is a nagging little wretch
that you should poke in the eye with a stick.  Look at a few of the things you've accomplished since you
started this game.  Yes, you have less experience than some, but more than many others.  We are all in
that boat.  You do have a number of successes behind you.  We remember those!

You also had to put off some shop time while you have been so busy earning a living.  Your play time is
short right now, so try to keep in mind that each little bit is its own project.  Next time in the shop, take
that time to adjust your tailstock side to side, and don't worry about it being high.  If you still have time
after doing that (and getting it right), make one of those legs as well as you can do it, and as right as you
can make it.  Call that good, and it's a thing done.

For that tailstock, remember what Arnold and Marv said;  "Vertical off-centering of the tailstock does not
appreciably affect taper in the part.
"  It can be quite a bit high and still only make the difference in the ends
of a piece barely measurable. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 25, 2012, 11:52:23 PM
I won't say, "I told you so."  No sir, I won't say that at all.  That would be mean.  Nope, won't do it.

You've changed Marv. Changed. What happened to the Marv I knew?  ;D
Nope. Same old Marv. Just a different style in delivering the same message.  :ROFL:

To your point, I remember the sacrificial part...didn't remember the 'over-sized' part. (I don't come across that term often.)

Dean...thanks. I do need to remember I have some engines running. And yeah...you're right...my sights may be too high.

Hm...as 'Oracle Jones' said..."I had me a vision...it come on me two days ago".
Another great 1965 move.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on August 26, 2012, 01:04:03 AM

Not sure I understand but it seems the mandrel would be on the order of 2.5" in diameter. A bit too big for my little mini-lathe. Also wondering, with a taper, that only the edge of the inner circle would be against the taper. I'm thinking the side pressure would push it slant-wise.

By centre bore I mean the crankshaft diameter  ;)   The flywheel in my avatar was finished using this method and the crankshaft dia 5/16" flywheel OD 6"

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on August 26, 2012, 01:32:14 AM
Carl I have just finished reading your thread. I must say you are to hard on yourself, your small set backs are part of learning. I too am a newbie to this craft and believe me I had a lot of ??>#* moments. But you just keep pushing forward and remake when you have to and strive to make it better the next time. I call it regrouping and rethinking things out, believe me it isn't easy for me, because I am a hot head.
I am interested in your project and hope to procure drawing for it, from you if at all possible.
I will be here till you finish. This is a real nice project you have started and I know you can finish it without any doubt.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2012, 02:17:28 AM
Thanks Bob. Sorry...still confused. The crankshaft bore is 3/16". The flywheel is a build-up...separate hub, spokes and rim. Just talking about the rim. ID=2.5" OD=3.6", 0.02" thick. To mount the rim on a lathe would require a 2.5" mandrel.

Don. Thanks for looking in. You're interested in the plans? That's a real compliment. If I get this done successfully I'll be happy to send you a copy of my scribblings. Thank you.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on August 26, 2012, 02:54:45 AM
Zee,

It's not you who's confused, it's me...............Ah well another senior moment and my apologies.

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 26, 2012, 03:00:02 AM
Zee,

You know how this goes now....your not as green as you think you are.....write this down with a crayon and post this over your bench
.....I CAN DO THIS!

Make a decision and proceed....I have faith bud....you CAN do this.

Go slow and think about what your doing....your logic is on....just push a little harder and your there!
.....I CAN DO THIS!.....
Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
Thanks Bob and Dave.

Well I got a bit more time in the shop this morning.
Here's how I did it...
Sat on chair, placed hands over face, leaned over...and blubbered.
No...it wasn't sympathy that worked (never does)...it was 'get out of here'.
I love her  :Love:

Finished the legs...now maybe that ZZ Top song (thanks to Bearcar) will get out of my head.

They don't look too bad. Slight taper but the dimensions aren't critical as you won't see the end that the bed sits on.

Need to work on my cutter but it sanded up okay. Stuck a hex bolt I made on one end, chucked it, placed a center in the tailstock, and sanded away at low speed (with towels).

The picture shows two unfinished bolts on one leg. One end for the base and the other in the bed.

BTW: Marv...you mentioned faceting the bolts. I've thought about filing but question getting consistent results. Also thought about putting it in a bit of rod, chucking it and facing at an angle. Consistency is still a question. Do you have other suggestions? Thanks.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/432732f3.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 26, 2012, 04:45:08 PM
They look great Zee!   told ya! ;D

What's this faceting thing?


Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 26, 2012, 05:24:01 PM
Just as with gems, there are endless possible faceting variants.  I'll describe how I do it in general terms so the reader can adapt it to his available equipment and artistic sensitivities.

Imagine a cylindrical workpiece mounted in some sort of indexing device.  Said device can be tilted in the MM vise so the work can be presented to the cutter at various angles.

Start with the indexer tilted at 45 degrees*.  Using the cutter**, make 6*** flats along the exposed edge of the workpiece.  Depth of cut should be relatively shallow; the individual cuts should not overlap.  Use the indexer to position the work for each cut.  Lock the depth of cut so it doesn't change from one cut to another.

Now tilt the indexer to an angle of 30 degrees*.  Index the indexer to a position midway between the cuts made above (e.g., if you made cuts above at 0,60,120,180..., you will now make cuts at 30,90,150,210...).  Adjust the cutter depth to make shallower cuts than you made above.  Make 6*** cuts that overlap the cuts made above.

Repeat the paragraph above with the indexer tilted to 75 degrees*.

As you can see, it's a fiddly process but all this fiddling is important because with faceting even the smallest inconsistency is visible and can really spoil the effect.  Also, it should be obvious from all the asterisks above that there are endless possible variations on this theme.  Don't be afraid to experiment but be sure to do some practice pieces before committing that part you slaved over for hours.


----

* All angles are operator's choice.  I used definite numbers to make the explanation more easily understood but there is nothing sacred about the numbers I chose.

** Any cutter is possible but I prefer a fly cutter because it leaves an unfigured surface.  It's almost impossible to post facto polish facets so forming them as perfectly as possible the first time around is important.

***Another number selectable by the operator.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on August 26, 2012, 05:32:02 PM
Zee,
I keep coming back to this:
Just to see...I mounted the dial indicator and checked the concentricity of the center hole by rotating the table.
It moved by .0002 by the time I got to the far side and then back to zero.
Seems good enough for me.
Took seconds instead of the usual 20-30 minutes.
It sounds to me like what you have done is to measure the roundness of the tapered hole in your rotary table.
What you want to do, given that the roundness is off only by 2 tenths, is to now sweep the spindle by hand and see how much your indicator fluctuates - and where. If the spindle sweep were to show the same 2 tenths in the same places that turning the table did, then the center of the table would be spot on to the center of the spindle.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2012, 06:34:07 PM
told ya! ;D

See Marv? Dave's not afraid to tell me.  :Lol:
Thanks Dave  ;D

Marv...thanks for explanation. It does give me lots of ideas. The thing I'm most concerned about is shearing the head off. It's an 0-80 bolt. BTW, when I said 'consistent' I meant bolt to bolt. I figured an indexer was in the plan to get consistent facets on the same head. Going with the 45 degree approach only. Or...for this project...I may just screw the bolt in a bit of rod and have at it with a file.  ::) Or...leave them square. Or...round them off. Endless.

Alan...will do. Thanks. In fact, all I checked was the hole at the top...not the tapered part where the 2M sits in. I'll check both.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 26, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
Yet another in the endless list of possibilities is to make bolt head covers.  Imagine little jewel-like dollops of brass glued over a slightly recessed 0-80 bolt head.

Look for decorative escutcheon pins in a woodworking or doll house making supply as a possible source of dollops.

Yeah, I've been way too easy on you recently.  From now on I'll loose the dogs of war and try to do better.  Let's start with a quote...

Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement
of the obvious. - George Orwell
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 26, 2012, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah, I've been way too easy on you recently.  From now on I'll loose the dogs of war and try to do better. 

uh oh.

On-off switch eh? Can I interest you in a rheostat?

Do you take it with ice?
Mind if it's in a jelly jar?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 26, 2012, 10:12:00 PM
Rheostat?  Well, I'm tempermentally more a pulse-width-modulation type but ok, just for you.

Ah, nasty memories.  All the fruit juice glasses I remember from home were jelly jars or those small cheese spread glasses.  I think I was fourteen before I learned that dishes came in matched sets.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on August 27, 2012, 04:29:27 AM
".... yeah she's got ...... and knows how to use them....."  :hammerbash:




BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2012, 04:44:43 AM
Darn it Jim! I just got it out of my head.
All-righty you...an oldie but a goodie...

"found a peanut"
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on August 27, 2012, 08:08:39 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing you make this flywheel Zee. I'm sure you'll get there one way or the other.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on August 27, 2012, 12:58:37 PM
Make the flywheel round Carl.... :mischief: it works better
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on August 27, 2012, 05:09:31 PM
Sorry Zeep', (no, not really) maybe this would be a better choice of subject matter..... >:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4iNw1Hvcu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4iNw1Hvcu8)


 :killcomputer: :killcomputer: :killcomputer: :killcomputer: :killcomputer:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 27, 2012, 07:32:48 PM
"found a peanut"
You didn't....   Oh, nooooo.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 27, 2012, 10:49:16 PM
Thanks Steve.

Make the flywheel round Carl.... :mischief: it works better

Sorry Pete. I'm much better at making oblongs. But I'll give it the zeepster try.

Jim. Nope. That one won't stick. Never really cared for them.  ;D

Yes Dean. Just now. I found it just now.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 28, 2012, 03:54:27 AM
A little progress...

Worked on the bed sides.
First milled some 0.25x0.25 out of 3/8 stock. That was fairly satisfying.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/4cbbf4e0.jpg)

First squared them. Milled one side, rotated and held against a strip of leather, did again, and then removed the leather and milled the last side.

Didn't mean to mill the last side. There's two bed sides and should have milled the last side on both parts at the same time. Normally I'm lucky to get within a hundreth of a barleycorn. This time I was well within two twips.

Then milled two...uh...shallow slots? The middle one is where the spinning wheel bearings will go. It would have been handy to use a vise stop but the one I made a couple of years ago is too thin. I didn't want to bother making another but it was easy to get them close enough.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/620ce0d4.jpg)

As you'll see...that was another mistake.

Here's the slots toward one end. These slots will hold the maiden stand.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/9b65d469.jpg)

A hole is needed in each slot. The mistake was I should have drilled the holes for the middle slots when the mill was still central to them.

But I managed.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/5a9fcaaf.jpg)

Here they are somewhat cleaned up...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/7426fe50.jpg)

I still have to drill/tap 0-80 in each end but I'm struggling to figure out how to  mount it in the vise so it's perpendicular. My squares are too big and the angle blocks are too fiddly. Could try the 4-jaw. Could make a jig. Could buy some collets. Would really like to have some collets for square and hex parts. Hm....blubbering might work but would have to wait a while. She gets suspicious if I cry more than once a week...unless we're watching a good movie...or I hurt myself...and its obvious.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on August 28, 2012, 04:04:23 AM
great work so far Carl. Looks like youre enjoying the build :ThumbsUp:
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on August 28, 2012, 08:40:02 AM
Would really like to have some collets for square and hex parts.

Sounds like you need to buy your mini lathe a four jaw self centering chuck :naughty: it will hold square, hex and round. Small ones can be hard to come by but Sherline do a couple: I have their smaller 2 1/2" one that I have fitted to my Cowells  :ThumbsUp:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 28, 2012, 09:03:41 AM
Zee,

Are you tapping the holes in the middle of the slots in the photo....or are they located on the ends ?

If it's the holes in the slots in the photo, you could make a tapping block for it.  If it's in the end, it's more difficult....

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 28, 2012, 12:07:57 PM
Thanks Pete. I did enjoy making those parts. Fairly simple and actually relaxing.

Thanks Jo. $110 for a self-centering 4 jaw. I can't justify that (yet) for the few parts I need to make. Looks like the same issue for some 5C collets for square or hex stock.

Thinking on a jig. Maybe take some aluminum plate, straighten one end for a base and just mill a slot perpendicular to that. Then in the vise. Could make all the slots the width I need or one wide slot and press the part against an edge.

Thanks Dave. In the ends. These two are about 3" long that need to stand on end in the mill or (somehow) held in the lathe.

On a side note...I've been using dial indicators on the mill and a micrometer more and more. As you'd expect, I'm much happier with results.

Very apparent too the difference between my cheap digital calipers and the micrometer.

How do calipers with dial indicators compare to the digital ones?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on August 28, 2012, 12:50:50 PM
Just a thought Carl. what if you marked and center punched the ends of the pieces and put them in your lathe tool holder similar to a 1/4" toolbit....then put the drill in the lathe chuck and feed it with the lathe carriage. Should work as long as things are well lined up parallel to lath axis etc. Only problem may be is if your lathe chuck will actually hold that small a drill.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on August 28, 2012, 02:22:29 PM
Quote
I still have to drill/tap 0-80 in each end but I'm struggling to figure out how to  mount it in the vise so it's perpendicular. My squares are too big and the angle blocks are too fiddly. Could try the 4-jaw. Could make a jig. Could buy some collets. Would really like to have some collets for square and hex parts.

Insert one bar on one side of the vise; this is just as a spacer. Take a parallel, press it against the other side of the mill vise's fixed jaw and press the other workpiece against the parallel as well.  Clamp up, locate the edges, find the center and drill...
Maybe too simplistic, but hey, I'm lazy  :Lol:

Regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 28, 2012, 04:20:38 PM
Here's another option for the tool poor...

Find a piece of round stock that's nice and straight.  Mount it in the mill chuck.  Bring the end of this piece down until it just about touches the top of the vise jaws.  Butt the workpiece against this rod while tightening the vise jaws on the workpiece.

Not as elegant as a 4jaw but it has the advantage of expediency and it's cheap.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on August 28, 2012, 07:21:06 PM
Marv's idea is quick and accurate if you want to use the mill for this, Carl.
I may be missing something, but what's wrong with just centering it up in the four jaw and drilling in the lathe,
then tap using a pin vise held loosely in the tailstock chuck?  (Lathe off for tapping.)

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 28, 2012, 11:27:30 PM
Thanks Bill, Arnold, Marv, and Dean.

Bill...interesting thought about using the tool post holder. Nifty.
Arnold...bit hazy on what you mean. Sent a PM for details.
Marv...very cool idea. Parts are only 1/4" square so the rod would have to be smaller. Don't know if I have anything that small and straight enough.
Dean...I did think about the 4-jaw. I've gotten better at centering a part in it.

But here's the thing...  ;D

I have several of these to do and so was looking for a way to reduce the fiddling.
What do you think of this...


Picture a bit of plate...maybe 1/4 or 3/16 thick.
Sides and top are not critical.
Flycut one face. That's the side that goes against the fixed vise jaw.
Straight cut the bottom edge and then mill a slot perpendicular to that.
The slot can be 1/4" (for the parts I'm making) or even bigger. Just 1/32 deep or so.
Could be multiple slots for the different bars I'm doing. 1/4", 7/32" etc. But not important.

Place plate in vise with slot vertical (uh duh...but I might put the wrong edge down).
Part goes in slot, up against edge. Clamp. Done.
Okay...not done. Find center, center drill, drill, and tap. Done.
Okay...not done. Got more to do.

Since I've got multiple parts...several the same length...

I can make it like a vise stop so it won't slide left/right in the vise.
I can place a parallel at the bottom so the parts are always at the same height.
Then center drill all required parts, swap for drill and drill all required parts, swap for tap and tap all required parts.
Can use the mechanical stop on the mill so I don't have to remeasure between operations.

Seems like I'd save quite a bit of time (even though we're not talking production runs here).

And I get a tool to help remove all that empty space in the tool chest.

Eh? Eh? Could be an 'atta-boy' here. Eh?

Can even use parts from the vise stop I made a couple of years ago.
Awwww c'mon!


Well I think it's cool.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 28, 2012, 11:55:23 PM
Quote
Marv...very cool idea. Parts are only 1/4" square so the rod would have to be smaller. Don't know if I have anything that small and straight enough.

Are you thinking that the rod I alluded to has to project down between the vise jaws?  Remember where I said...

Quote
Bring the end of this piece down until it just about touches the top of the vise jaws.

I'm presuming your part is long enough to extend above the top of the vise jaws.

The 4jaw is still the preferred weapon.  If you're concerned about centering polygonal stock in same, build one of these

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/mklotz/tools/flapper.jpg)

to make the job simpler.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 29, 2012, 12:14:33 AM
Are you thinking that the rod I alluded to has to project down between the vise jaws?  Remember where I said...
Quote
Bring the end of this piece down until it just about touches the top of the vise jaws.
I'm presuming your part is long enough to extend above the top of the vise jaws.

Hadn't but had. When I wrote the post I was indeed thinking of it sticking into the vise. But when I had originally read your post I was thinking there wouldn't be enough to stick up for truing or stick down for clamping. But thanks for the reminder. It's a method I know I'll use someday...and would have forgotten again!

Yes. The 4-jaw was my first thought. One or two parts is one thing. But several parts with 3 operations each is another.

I'm glad you posted that thingie tool. I remember it and need to make one. Got lots of space in my tool chest!

Yeah yeah...I know. On one hand I say I forgot...on the other I say I'll remember.
It won't matter tomorrow.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 29, 2012, 12:25:23 AM
There is a duffer's way of doing it in a 3jaw if the workpieces are really square.  Construct a thin tube with a bore equal to the diagonal of the workpiece (side times root 2).  Slit this tube and use it as a redneck collet in the 3jaw to hold the stock.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on August 29, 2012, 02:01:49 AM
Zee,

Are the bars all the same length?   If they are line them up side by side in a vice standing vertically.   Make up a block 3 times as wide as a single bar.   On 1 end drill a clearance hole in this bar that just slips the tap through.   It's important that the hole be square to the bar.   You can now use this bar as a tap guide , and the other bars as steadying surfaces.

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 29, 2012, 02:28:37 AM
if the workpieces are really square.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: You know me by now. They're square within 1 zeepster unit.

real men learn to use their 4jaw.

Drat.

Time for an emoticon...I'll use my everyday goal...

 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 30, 2012, 12:47:17 PM
Well it didn't go as well as I'd hoped but it should work...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e0ba5245.jpg)

There's room enough for the center drill and drill bit but tapping will require a tool change. Not sure I'd want to put the tap in the chuck even though I'd tap without power. Might though as I'm not using a tight thread and tapping is pretty easy. (Let me know if I'm facing a safety or tool issue.) Changing the tool means moving the bed so the jig may not be saving me as much work as I'd thought.

Could gain a bit more space if I used something other than my smallest parallel but I don't think it makes enough difference.

Need to redraw a couple of parts too. The bearings and maiden stand look similar to the bed sides but sit vertically with a single bolt at the bottom (through the bed). I think I'll make their base wider and use two bolts. I'll show drawings when I get them done.

Back to an earlier question...how does a dial indicator caliper compare to the digital ones? Assuming similar cheapness  ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on August 30, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
Carl, if the drill fits in that set-up, I would think the tap will also. Putting the tap in the chuck will also help keep it straight and true. This is an 0-80 hole IIRC so the tap will be less than robust!  Just snug it in the drill chuck so that if it begins to bind as you turn it by hand, it will slip in the chuck before breaking the tap. Use tapping fluid and back it out frequently and you should be good. Its tedious yes, but still quicker than having to remake the part (just trying to save you some "drats" and "craps" here :)  ).

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on August 30, 2012, 03:44:47 PM
How many zeros behind the decimal point is a Zeepster Unit?   ....   :ROFL:   Been following along in the shadows Z' and am enjoying every bit of the ride so far. Keep the faith.  :ThumbsUp:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 30, 2012, 04:32:45 PM
Turning a 0-80 tap with a drill chuck means you'll have very little feel for what you're doing.  The best thing, IMO, is still to make a dedicated tap holder with a guide pin that is held in the chuck.  Failing that, a ring that clamps to the tap shank and allows you to turn the tap with fingertips while the (stationary) chuck keeps the tap aligned (chuck set so that tap slips in the jaws) will work when you have minimum z axis clearance.

I know these suggestions all involve building new tooling but, if you're going to work with tiny taps, at some point you'll have to bite the bullet unless you enjoy frustration.

Re calipers...

Measurement accuracy with calipers is more a matter of technique than the inherent quality of the tool.  You'll hear lots of advice about not trusting them for better than 0.002" or even 0.005".  That's hogwash.  With my Mitutoyo dial calipers I can reliably measure to 0.001" (and even interpolate to 0.0005") and I've checked this with gage blocks and mike on numerous occasions.  However, to achieve that you can't mash the jaws down using that rapid-traverse roller or thumb button and you do need to pay attention to cleanliness. 

I have no cheap dial calipers but I do have cheap digitals.  Used properly, they're certainly good to 0.001".  They display to 0.0005" but I consider that noise.

While I use my calipers for all sorts of jobs, I don't use them on the lathe.  It's just too awkward to hold them properly.  For even rough measurements I'll use a mike.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dan Rowe on August 30, 2012, 06:48:53 PM
Zee,
Pictures worth zillions of words.....

I was doing some maintenance on my mini lathe and I realized I might have a simple solution to your setup problem.

This is a photo of my square tool block which a lot of small lathes have a similar version. Clamp the tool block to the mill table and use it to hold the square stock. This will give you the max headstock room as the work piece is sitting directly on the table.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/shayloco/MEM/lathetoolblock.jpg)

I agree with Marv mini taps need a guide 0-80 taps are really easy to snap. I used to hold my breath (did not help much just went :ShakeHead:) untill I sprung for a tap guide.

Dan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 31, 2012, 12:28:51 AM
Thanks Bill. Per Marv's note I was worried about the loss of feel. I tend to be hard-handed. A saved crap is a good crap.

Jim...there's at least one zero behind that decimal point. Somewhere.  ;D

Marv...yes as mentioned above I was worried about loss of feel. I've lost enough of that as it is. I probably won't do this...but a hollowed out cylinder held by the chuck that the tap can spin in and a ring around the tap with a set screw. Something like that...would have to hold up to down pressure.

And thanks for the reply on the calipers. I've gotten used to using my micrometer whenever possible rather than the digital caliper. Your measurements are pretty good. When I compare the same part between the micrometer and the digital caliper...they differ by as much as .003. Too much for me. I've got some other digital calipers and can try them.

Dan...looks like a great idea. I still have the original tool holder from my mini-lathe. I'll investigate that. A bit of beer can between the part and the screws...hm.

Thanks all.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on August 31, 2012, 01:47:48 AM
Quote
a hollowed out cylinder held by the chuck that the tap can spin in and a ring around the tap with a set screw.

That's what I was alluding to when I wrote...

Quote
Failing that, a ring that clamps to the tap shank and allows you to turn the tap with fingertips while the (stationary) chuck keeps the tap aligned (chuck set so that tap slips in the jaws) will work when you have minimum z axis clearance.

One needs so little axial pressure with a tap that small that the ring should be all you need.  Don't forget about relieving some of the strain on the tap by drilling for less than 75% depth-of-thread.  Ideal would be 1.3 mm with a DOT of 54% but, if you don't have metric drills, a #55 will give you 49%.  That should be plenty for an unstressed model part.  Oh, and USE LUBRICANT.  (But you knew that already, didn't you?)

0.003" is way too much error.  Here's something you can safely practice while sipping from your jelly jar.  Get a standard - something of known dimension.  Gage pins or blocks are fine but, lacking that, use the standard that came with your mike.

Clean the caliper jaws. (Wipe with finger - this ain't a hospital.) Open the jaws and place the standard as close as possible to the beam - up near the top of the jaws.  Using thumb and forefinger on your left hand opposite the ends of the standard, gently close the jaws on the standard.  You should get a measurement very close to the standard size.

Now, just for jollies, shift your fingers to the end of the jaws and press gently.  Bet you get a bigger error.

Try placing the standard at other positions in the jaws and closing the jaws with the thumb pusher and your fingers as above.  I think you'll soon see what I'm talking about when I mention "technique".  One has to develop technique to use a mike accurately; it's no different with a caliper.

BTW, I didn't comment but this...

Quote
A saved crap is a good crap.

is priceless.  I've added it to my collection of inspriational sayings.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on August 31, 2012, 11:36:38 PM
I sure hope 'priceless' isn't another word for 'no value'.  ;D

So got stole borrowed a 0.250 gage block from work today.

Failed to see to at what accuracy the block is. But at least I can do some relative checks.
With little/no force...

My micrometer measured 0.2505 (interpolating the last digit).
The digital caliper...0.248 near the head, 0.247 at the tip.
Difference of 2-3 or more thou.
Repeatable.

It's a cheap micrometer...bought some 30 years ago for an electronics class (to measure leads).
It's a cheap digital caliper...bought some 2-3 years ago for this adventure.
Gotta check the other digital calipers.

Interestingly...the mic and caliper were within about a thou of each other at 0.95

I used to think it odd that of all the mechanical engineers and technicians (one of whom is a certified machinist)...none of them do this at home as a hobby.

Was talking to an electrical engineer today and his hobby is building guitars.

Then I thought of myself - a software engineer.

Hobbies are 'other' interests.
Cool.

I worry those mechies sometimes.  ;D

Happy Labor Day everyone!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on September 01, 2012, 04:02:25 PM
Did you remember to zero the digital calipers before taking your test measurements?

Two, three thousandths is a lot.  Even my HF cheapies can do better than that.  The Mitutoyos are far better.

Was the mike zero checked?  A half thou error on a mike is pretty big. 

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2012, 04:27:45 PM
Thanks Marv.

Yep. Zero'd the caliper. Did another check today.
0.249 at the head and 0.248 at the tip. Maybe a thou better than yesterday - for whatever reason.
Will check my other digitals when I get a chance.

Forgot to verify the zero on the mike. But it's spot on (occasionally well within 0.00025) with repeated tries.
Got that same less than 0.00025 on the gage block this morning. So it was better too.

On to other things...

Realized today that the two bed sides I made have to be scrapped.
Don't we have a 'dunce' emoticon?.
This guy  :facepalm: is good but only for the occasional 'doh' moments.
Since I seem to be suffering from an extended series of 'doh'...
 :facepalm: :slap: :disappointed: :wallbang:
Now that I think about it...there's plenty of emoticons for me.

You'll recall the discussion about drilling/tapping the ends of the sides. This was so they could be attached to the bed's front and back. The sides carry the weight of the wheel and maiden. That means the bolts carry that same weight plus the sides.

Not a lot of weight mind you...but if you scale this up...you'll shear the bolts.

So spent the morning redrawing some parts.

Bed sides will extend over and be pinned to the front and back.

Why am I here? I'm in the shop. Wife is going for groceries. That means I have time to machine!

 :facepalm: :slap: :disappointed: :wallbang:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2012, 09:17:06 PM
Well well. Burned a finger, almost milled the wrong side...but so far so good!
I give myself a  :whoohoo:

Here's the front and back of the bed so far. Still have to round the ends.

A 1/8" hole is milled part way through. That's for the leg. A 1/16 hole is in the middle of that for the bolt.

Frazer suggested buttons for that other part I started this thread with (and have yet to finish) and then I saw Bearcar1's setup with the clamp and the fine job he did.

So I made those buttons that are in the pic. I think the stuff was drill rod.
I blackened them to make them harder.
It's been a long time since I've done blackening and it was time for a bit of smoked oil smell.
But that's now how I burned myself.
It's also been a long time since I machined hard metal and when I parted it off I hadn't realized how hot it had gotten. Used some mist after that. And yes, was using cutting oil throughout.

I don't lose my mind...just bits of it get loose for a while.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/76e3b5c0.jpg)

Oh right...the business of the wrong side. I slotted both parts at the same time. Then drilled two 1/16 thru holes at one end. Was about to mill the 1/8" hole for the legs when I realized the parts were upside side. Close call.  ;D

The slots hold the sides of the bed. The ends of the sides have a 1/4x1/4, 1/8 thick tab that will sit in the slot. They'll be pinned together using that method I talked about some time ago.

Might be hard to see in the next pic, but there's a pin on the penny. 0-80 bolt made out of hex brass and the receptacle also is made of 1/8 hex brass turned down a bit and tapped.

Here's the front/back placed together to give an idea.

I'll drill/ream for the pin through both mating parts at the same time.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/4ee2761d.jpg)

Now to try my hand at filing the ends. I'd like to keep today's  :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on September 01, 2012, 10:26:10 PM
I'm glad to see you made some buttons, Zee.  They will really help in making nice rounded ends on your pieces.
I think when you say you "blackened" them you mean you hardened them.  Heated the drill rod to the color of
carrots, then dunk in oil?  Yes, they do often turn black, but, it's "hardening".
(BTW, you can stop that black color by coating them in hand soap before heating them.  That can come in handy
when you need to temper your hardened parts.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 01, 2012, 11:31:29 PM
Thanks Dean. Yes...I hardened them. But no different than what I did for the machinist clamp I made or those thumbwheel clamps. And they're black. Thought that was what blackening meant. Unless you mean, the process is 'hardening' which will turn steel black? Didn't know about the hand soap trick. I'll have to try that sometime.

So...

I get to keep today's  :whoohoo:

Here's a pic of the setup with some filing and sanding done. Bit of masking tape there to keep the clamp screw from damaging the part.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/07e13116.jpg)

Here's the parts with one showing one of the legs sort of attached. Just need final finishing and polishing.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/34a880db.jpg)

Could have been a bit better and rounder but I'm pretty happy with it being first time and all.
Now I have hope for that other part.

Can't believe I managed so much time in the shop today. That last blubber of mine must have been a doozey. Maybe I have some change left over for tomorrow. Nah...she's pretty smart. The hammer will come down tomorrow..."You had all day in the shop yesterday! Now it's time for some work around here!"

And she's probably right.

She cooks good. I like to eat. I know what I have to do.  :'(
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on September 02, 2012, 12:29:39 AM
'

They look good, Carl.  You're on the right road, I think!

Unless you mean, the process is 'hardening' which will turn steel black?

Yes, that's what I mean.  The being black is a byproduct.


Quote
She cooks good. I like to eat. I know what I have to do. 

Kiss kiss, sweetie!  :) 
I reckon we all have it figured out...  She's wonderful.  Lucky dog. 

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 02, 2012, 01:08:17 AM
Nice to see you getting some good stuff done in the shop Carl. The legs are coming up well

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 02, 2012, 01:42:08 AM
Making progress Carl, I am a little anxious to see more of it. Do you have a larger photo of the wood spinster? I really would like to see one if you have one. I am interesting in making one in brass.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 02, 2012, 02:14:48 AM
Thanks Dean and Steve.
It was a fun day!

Don...I'd be happy to. The model is patterned after my daughter's double-drive Castle spinning wheel.
Might take me a bit though. I'll have to try and pry it away from her.

I'll take some detail pics and PM them to you along with some rough measurements. Plans are in flux (as you've seen) but I'll send them when I get further down the road. Could be a long road.

Send me a PM if/when you think I've forgotten.

Brass would look like nice. The only brass I'm using is for the wheel rim, pedals, crank and part of the flyer and fasteners.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 03, 2012, 02:19:21 AM
The parts so far...

Just placed together. Tomorrow I hope to start on some bolts.
The bearing blocks need to be drilled/reamed for the crank and the tops rounded. More buttons!

The bearing blocks aren't as great as I'd like. Hopefully a bit of sandpaper will make things right.
Also looks like I need to get more, better, end mills. I'm seeing tear out rather than nice chips.
Don't even think of suggesting of sharpening them. They are cheapo of the cheap and not worth it in my mind.  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/cf5fc08e.jpg)

Who would have thought that this is a valid equation?...

dishes + cleaning = machine time

 :whoohoo:


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 03, 2012, 02:24:29 AM
Looking good Zee!    Glad you sorted the tapping issue!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 03, 2012, 03:04:02 AM
Carl it is starting to take shape, that is a real good start. Looking forward to more progress.
And thanks for letting me know I can get photos, as I am really interested in making this project. Brass would really make it stand out. I am just a nut, about making things out of brass.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: doubletop on September 03, 2012, 11:40:38 AM
Zee

I'm just lurking on this thread of yours being entertained by the double act you have going with Marv. But you are making good progress there, so time to come out of the shadows.

Well done

Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 03, 2012, 12:44:29 PM
Coming along nicely Carl. Looking forward to seeing where you take this next

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on September 03, 2012, 07:07:00 PM
Looking good Carl,hows  the blisters  :stir:not my fault honest
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 03, 2012, 10:33:48 PM
Thanks guys.

Just made bolts and pins today.
4 pins and 12 bolts of 3 different lengths in brass. 0-80.
You can see one of the bolts inserted in a pin.
The pin/bolts will be used to attach the bed sides to the front and back.

I'll probably just sand the corners down rather than facet the tops (sorry Marv).

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/fdff1fe2.jpg)

Here's a pic of my setup.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/7e29dda7.jpg)

The back indicator is attached to a magnetic base sitting on top of my rotary table. On the back of the carriage is a couple of magnets that the indicator is against.

Some time ago I'd made a collar for the tailstock in an ill-fated attempt to mount a digital caliper. This time I took one of the previously incorrectly made bed sides, attached it to the collar and mounted a magnetic indicator on the tail stock.

Not the most accurate setup but well within the accuracy needed to make the pins and bolts. With that help, the job went faster than I'd thought it would.

No broken taps, no sheared off bolts, and the 3 bolts that went flying were found.
No blisters, no cuts, and no craps and drats.

Another  :whoohoo: day!

Don...it's raining here and I need sun to get good pics. I'll try and get them as soon as I can.
BTW...are you able to access my photobucket account? I think there's a way you can if the folder is public.

If you can, I can upload the pics and you can choose what you want. I'll make a different folder to make it easier.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2012, 12:26:06 AM
Well I had to go ahead and try bolting things up...

Needed to drill/ream for the pin.
Here's the setup...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/52523613.jpg)

Set up one side and found the center of the tab. With the vise stop I would have to find X/Y again.
Problem was keeping the end butted up right.
So I used some clamping gear and my little mechanics jack with a bit of scrap.

See the tape? Didn't do that the first time.
When I drilled the hole and lifted the mill head...I had a nice little propeller going.  Not smart.

Made witness marks on the joining faces to I could keep track of things.

Here's a pic of things bolted/pinned together...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/c5ad5c9a.jpg)

The pins are in the ends of the side bars with a bolt on the underside.

Kind of interested on working on the pedals, pittman rods, and joints.
Original just had a flexible bit of tube between the pittman rod and pedal.
I hope to make a 'universal joint' type thing.
Pretty small though... each half joint is ony 1/8 x 1/8 by 1/4 or 3/8.
So we'll see.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 04, 2012, 12:47:08 AM
Still making progress I see, persistence pays. Good to see you having positive results.
Carl I do not have a link to your photobucket account. If you look below my post you seethe link to mine.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2012, 12:56:15 AM
Thanks Don.
Ah yes...I'd seen your link before and visited. Very nice stuff there.

I'll put a link in when it comes time.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dan Rowe on September 04, 2012, 01:03:28 AM
Nice bolt work. :ThumbsUp:

That is starting to take shape.
Dan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on September 04, 2012, 06:59:35 AM
It's starting to shape up and look quite nice, Carl.  I'm beginning to understand how things will work (even!).  :)
The cap screws and pins came out quite nice.  A little bevel on the visible hex heads would look good, but
that's all up to you.

Glad I checked in today.  It's been one of "those days", and though it's now late night, seeing your progress
brightened up my evening.  Keep it up.  Do more dishes and cleaning.  Sounds to be worth it!

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 04, 2012, 10:55:34 AM
Looks Great Zee!

As to chamfering the bolts/nuts/pins,  That is usually done on the lathe with a chamfering tool....the chamfer is a simple turning operation with the widest part of the chamfer at the corners of the flat while the chamfer fades to nothing at the middle of the flat......if one was to do such a thing

I looks great just as it is!  Keep going!

Dave
 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on September 04, 2012, 11:52:05 AM
Looking good Carl. I'd be interested in seeing the pics of the full size spinning wheel also just to get a better idea of where this is headed.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 04, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
Thanks Dean. I hope today is much better for you.

Dave and Dean...was thinking to just sand or file the facets but I like the idea of using a chamfering tool. Put the chamfering tool in the head, make a holder for the bolt, put holder in tool post or mount to carriage, and feed it in? I like that it can be made repeatable. I have a chamfering tool that Vernon gave me.

Bill...the first post shows a picture of the original. But I promised Don some additional detailed pictures of it. Hopefully by next weekend if the sun gets out.

Thanks all.

Hm...bed might seem a bit spindly but we'll see how it goes.
[Edit]: Could make the legs out of 3/16 instead of turning them down to 1/8. Would just have to turn the top end down to 1/8 to fit the hole. We'll see after I get more of it done. In fact...it would make mounting the pedals better too. Hm...
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on September 04, 2012, 01:53:40 PM
Sorry Carl, I had missed that or either forgotten it the pics were there. Thanks!

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 04, 2012, 02:04:10 PM
Lookin' good, Zee.  Keep at it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2012, 02:35:00 AM
Thanks rleete.

Tried to make part of the 'universal joint' today. Silly me. Drilled/reamed a couple of 3/32 holes in a 5/32 part then reclamped for the next operation. Holes are no longer 3/32. Closer to an oblong 1/16. Lessons:

a) try to drill/ream holes last
b) small parts are easily mashed when using neanderthal power manly strength stupidity
c) make a jig
d) measure three times (I won't explain that one - but as usual - came out smaller rather than bigger)

Set that aside and started on the...on the...strap? Not sure what it's called. You'll see it...eventually.

Pictures seem to be up again.

Don...try this link. Let me know if the pics are what you were looking for.
Will follow up in PM with some dimensions. Should be by this weekend.

http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/spinning%20wheel/
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 05, 2012, 03:27:44 AM
Thanks Carl for the photos, given a few dimensions, I should be able to start laying one out in autocad. I want to build it as show in the photos. I am looking to start with a 5 to 6 inch wheel. Is that about your wheel size?

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2012, 12:52:36 PM
The original wheel is 18". So you're talking about 1/3 scale. Very workable it would seem to me.

I have mini-equipment and a bit short on experience so I struggled with 1/4 scale.
My model is 1/5 scale giving a flywheel of 3.6". That also makes many of the parts pretty small and presents their own struggles for me.  ;D

I expect the pedals to work and the wheel to spin. I'm hoping it will spin two sewing threads together. I don't expect to actually spin fiber. Your scale might though.

My thought was to mount two bobbins (as used in a sewing machine below the needle) to feed the wheel. Problem is...you have to maintain tension on the thread/fiber as you feed. And for all I know, it may be pretty sensitive and/or variable. That's why you see spinners holding the fiber between two fingers. They also pull back on it depending on what's going on. For my little model I'm hoping to feed the threads through some kind of material (leather?) with a way to adjust tension.

But I have two suspicions i.e. guys in the back of my head screaming at me...

1) The bobbin/tension idea won't work. I'll be lucky to hold two threads and spin them together
2) After building the model I won't bother with the rest of it and move on to the next project

There's a number of things to consder with respect to the maiden and flyer. I'll provide as much information as I can in the PM.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on September 05, 2012, 05:44:48 PM
Man that looks good so far Zee', those bolts are so tiny, my hat is off to you sir.  :NotWorthy:  You'll be spinning straw into gold in no time  :happyreader:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2012, 06:19:48 PM
Thanks Jim...I'm better at spinning garbage.  :Lol:

I'm finding that this little project is teaching me a lot, not to mention I'm gaining good experience.

Just wanted to post a little bit more information about this spinning wheel for those who might be interested...you machinists you... :Lol:

The trick to spinning (as I understand it) is getting a differential speed between the flyer and the bobbin. With a single-drive wheel you provide that differential by holding onto the fiber and slowing the bobbin down while the wheel drives both the flyer and bobbin. Basically you're braking the bobbin. You can get more control with a built-in brake (some called Scotch brakes).

On a double-drive wheel, one band drives the bobbin and another drives a whorl that then drives the flyer. The whorl looks like a set of different diameter disks. Putting the band on a different disk gives you a different speed relative to the bobbin. You can still affect speed of the bobbin by tensioning the fiber. There's other reasons to do this as it affects tightness of fiber etc. You can also install a (Scotch) brake.

It's easy to replace the bobbin on the single-drive. The band doesn't contact it and is located near the flyer's base.

On the double-drive, you have to loosen the band (pop them off the whorl), then remove the whorl, then replace the bobbin.

It's one single band just double looped (figure 8 kind of thing).

I tried making a design to avoid that but it got pretty hokey and more importantly started looking even more 'mechanical' and less 'traditional'.

I am not a spinner (my daughter is) and do not endorse any particular spinning wheel brand. Any information given about spinning and spinning wheels should be taken with a grain of...see reply to Jim above.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 05, 2012, 09:59:39 PM
 :offtopic:

Does anyone know how/if you can attach jpg and documents to a PM?

Don, I have that information ready but don't know how to send through PM.
If you like, send me an email to 'zeeprogrammer@yahoo.com' and I can reply there.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 06, 2012, 11:49:42 PM
 :help:

Newbie alert. Question...

I've never made one of these. I think they're called straps.

I've taken some rectangular stock, milled it for square sides.
Then drilled/tapped two holes in the end.
Then sawed a bit of end off.
Then bolted it back on.

The idea is to then drill/ream a hole in the center of the line between the two parts and the whole thing then bolted onto a crank.

There's a gap between the two pieces.

Doesn't seem surprising to me. I'm figuring that as the bolt goes through the end piece, it meets with a discontinuity when going into the main part...thus lifting away the end piece.

Is the end piece also tapped? Or just drilled through?
Or do you saw the end off then drill/tap through the two parts? Wondering how you get the two pieces to mate properly though.

Basic question...how do you make a strap? (If that's what it's called.)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on September 07, 2012, 12:08:47 AM
If I understand your question correctly you're making something that looks like the big end of a connecting rod.

Given that caveat, here's how I do it.

Drill two tap-drill-sized holes for the bolts
Saw the end off
Drill out the holes in the sawn off end to slightly larger than the OD of the bolts
Thread the holes in the main body of the 'strap'
Reattach the end using the threaded holes and the bolts.
Locate on the line between main body and end, drill and ream the hole for whatever the 'strap' attaches to.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 07, 2012, 12:51:24 AM
Thanks very much Marv.

Yes...it's the big end of a connecting rod. But rather than one long piece...it's a rod that will be threaded into the strap.

Will be showing pictures soon.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 07, 2012, 03:44:30 AM
Well not a great (4th) attempt...but I'm happy enough given it's really my first try at making one of these.
1st attempt...no point in talking about that one.
2nd attempt...milled to 1/8 then realized it needs to be bigger else the bolts will interfere.
3rd attempt...tried to mill to 3/16 but milled .02 too much. "What?" "How?"

Ends are a tad off but I'm hoping a bit of sanding will make it good enough.

Picture doesn't do it justice. The holes are actually pretty good.
I'm making two straps out of this.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/aa041b83.jpg)

Each strap is 7/16 wide, 9/16 long, and 3/16 thick.
Next step is to mill the corners (1/4 radii), then saw in half, then mill to length, then tap the end for 2-56 to attach the (pittman) rod.

I've been keeping track of which end is which and its orientation.

Kind of machiney...no?

I've really been enjoying this. Glad you guys started up this forum. It was the kick in the pants I needed to get started again.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 07, 2012, 10:09:48 AM
Looks great Zee!    Glad we kicked ya in the pants too........ :stir: :cheers:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 07, 2012, 11:56:55 AM
Hmm, we really need a kick in the pants emoticon! The strap looks the business Carl, things are progressing nicely

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 07, 2012, 12:14:58 PM
Thanks Dave and Steve.


Well I woke up in the middle of the night realizing I have a design flaw.
In the engine people...the engine.
Something I can do something about.

Original idea was to thread the pittman rod into the strap and the other end into the universal joint.
But that would mean the strap ends up rotated relative to the joint.  :facepalm:

Could leave loose or loctite the ends but I don't think it'd look good and may still not work.
Besides...just doesn't seem the way to do it.
Could pin the ends but I'd rather not.

If I make it out of a single piece with an integral strap and half-joint...then I'm wondering how to saw the strap in two.

Now I'm afraid of going to bed.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 07, 2012, 11:18:06 PM
Time to draw up a single piece control rod.
I studied gbritnell's thread and he was kind enough to answer some questions for me.
I think I know what to do but I'm troubled by one aspect...

George turned his rod down using a 4-jaw but the other end was free.
Turned it to .062!!!
His part wasn't overly long and of course he's got the skill...but I figure to run into trouble.

I'll need to turn it down with a center in the tailstock. It'll be 0.125. And then it's a question of how to hold the small end for milling and drilling. I think I have an idea. It's based on making the thickness of the small end the same as the strap end. That'd be only 1/32 more than the original part and I'm thinking a slightly larger part won't be a bad idea.

As for me making the fillets...har har har.




Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 07, 2012, 11:49:32 PM
Well I woke up in the middle of the night realizing I have a design flaw.

[Clint Eastwood voice]A man's got to know his limitations...[/Clint Eastwood voice]
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on September 07, 2012, 11:53:05 PM
I can't visualize what you're making (a Crap-o-CAD would be helpful) but keep in mind that many hard-to-machine tiny parts can often be simplified by converting them into assemblies of tiny parts that are easy to make (or buy).
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2012, 01:32:42 AM
 :Lol: Nice one rleete.

Marv...it's really just a 'standard' control rod. Exactly like George's (gbritnell). Well...it won't be 'exactly'. It'll be some time before I get to his quality of work...if ever.

So think of his control rod as 3 pieces...the strap end, the rod, and the other end (link?). If they're 3 pieces...how do you ensure the ends are parallel to each other? That's what I woke up with. That...and I had to go to the bathroom. It's that time of life.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 08, 2012, 02:42:01 AM
So think of his control rod as 3 pieces...the strap end, the rod, and the other end (link?). If they're 3 pieces...how do you ensure the ends are parallel to each other?

Do both drilling/reaming operations in the same setup.  You're talking about the holes in each end, right?


It's that time of life.

Menopause?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2012, 03:00:02 AM
Menopause?

Could be. Not sure. I think I missed the mid-life crisis. Didn't get the car I've always wanted. For that matter...as some of you know...I'm still lacking those things that some consider required for full manhood.

No grill, no lawn mower tractor, and no bowling ball.

I did get half a bowling ball for Christmas a couple of years ago. Son-in-law got the other half.
But he's also got a lawn tractor and a couple of grills.

It's just not fair.

I don't like grilling, hate mowing...but do enjoy bowling. I coulda been a bowler.

Drat. Off topic again. I talk to myself too much.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 08, 2012, 04:26:44 AM
Well, acording to the wife, I'm smack dab in the middle of my mid-life crisis.  I drive a little Miata, I play with my "toy engines" and I no longer do any bowling.    Funny, I'm enjoying life a lot more than when I was young and wild.

I still have to mow then lawn, though.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 08, 2012, 04:28:46 AM
Hey, you know what?  I still have my bowling ball sitting around somewhere.  It's drilled for a lefty, though; might make you dump it in the gutter a lot.  But you're welcome to come and get it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2012, 10:01:01 PM
Well, acording to the wife, I'm smack dab in the middle of my mid-life crisis.

Good place to be. My wife thinks I'm still a idiot kid.
My avatar IS me.  ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2012, 10:25:23 PM
Well I got a control rod. Couple of boo-boos but it'll do.
Some of my methods were questionable though. I have much more learning to do.

George was a big help. I had also looked at Simon's (smfr) thread back on HMEM and trolled his thread here. Very helpful stuff. Thanks both of you.

I couldn't get my head around turning the center down. So I didn't.

I squared up some stock then drilled and tapped a couple of holes in the cap. Also enlarged the holes in the cap itself. Than I slotted the link. Drat...I can never seem to get the height right when sawing.

Then I sawed the cap off and screwed it back on. Then milled all four sides again to size. Then milled the center down a bit.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/596df82a.jpg)

Now the part was ready for drilling and reaming. After that I wouldn't have to put the part width-wise in the vise and take the  certainty chance of mashing the holes.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/b5762efb.jpg)

Now time to do the sides. First step was to mill down one side to the edge of the link.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/df9d5dcc.jpg)

At which point I thought I was looking at disaster. Not much to hold onto to mill the other side. I placed a parallel underneath the newly milled part and lucked out that I had enough room to mill.

I also put the round corner in using a 3/16 ball mill that I got from Vernon a long time ago. I'd never used one before. Thanks Vernon. Wish you were still around.

I wanted to taper the rod. This presented the most interesting problem. To do it would mean the link was up in the air with nothing to hold onto to. So I stuck it out the side, placed a spacer between it and the parallel underneath. Then clamped it down.

There was no side support but I took it slowly with light cuts. The clamp did the job.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/aa2937b6.jpg)

Boo-boo number two. I didn't quite mill to the link on one side. Not too bad though. Might still be able to fix it.

Here it is with a bit of cleaning up. Still need to round the link.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/1d641ab8.jpg)

Overall I'm pretty happy with the result. I have another one to make.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: vcutajar on September 08, 2012, 10:31:42 PM
Carl

I have been following your build and enjoying it immensly.

The second conrod that you will make will be even better than the first one and you will have to resist the tempatation to redo the first one.

Vince
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 08, 2012, 11:16:33 PM
Thank you Vince.

The second conrod that you will make will be even better than the first one and you will have to resist the tempatation to redo the first one.

Don't know about the 1st part...but you're certainly right about the 2nd!  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 08, 2012, 11:45:25 PM
Nice job on the con rod Carl. Every part we make, makes us that much better the next time around.


Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on September 08, 2012, 11:50:50 PM
Looks good to me.  Stop beating yourself up.  Have a self-congratulatory jelly jar.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: smfr on September 09, 2012, 12:25:34 AM
Glad that my bumbling along has been useful, Carl!

I've been following along with interest. I'm keen to see what this "Spinster" turns out to look like!

Simon
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2012, 12:39:30 AM
Thanks Don.

Stop beating yourself up.

Ah but it's so easy to forgive myself. I do it all the time.  ;D

Have a self-congratulatory jelly jar.

Done. 'a'?

I'm keen to see what this "Spinster" turns out to look like!

Me too!

I enjoy your threads Simon. Them's good threads.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 09, 2012, 01:10:03 AM
Looks good to me.  Stop beating yourself up.  Have a self-congratulatory jelly jar.

Agreed.  But I would have liked to see a pic of the setup, instead of just the finished part.  The setups are where I learn from others.  And, it's usually the part I have problems with figuring out.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2012, 02:40:16 AM
Agreed.  But I would have liked to see a pic of the setup, instead of just the finished part.  The setups are where I learn from others.  And, it's usually the part I have problems with figuring out.

Quite right. Same for me.

I must admit to being a bit selfish...worried that what I was doing was just wrong and what others might think of it...or worse...giving poor examples to other newbies of how to go about some operations. I wouldn't want you to learn such things from me.

Rather stupid really. If I'm doing something wrong and don't allow others to correct me...then it will become a bad habit and frustration will always dog me.

I have a second control rod to do and will be more diligent with pictures.

Sure sure. Some of you may think "why should I worry". We're all pals here.
Right. Then I would point out that one person has added one of my statements to his collection of quotes and another (you rleete) has threatened to make it an internet meme.

"A saved crap is a good crap."

Sounds more like something one would put on a tombstone.  :old:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on September 09, 2012, 03:03:12 AM
Sounds more like something one would put on a tombstone.  :old:

Which one, the saved or the good?

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on September 09, 2012, 03:20:10 AM
going well Carl great progress unlke me who s having a crap run with my attempts at projects :P Still always find more to do.
I think the spnister is going to look a treat when finished
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 09, 2012, 03:28:00 AM
Carl when one is learning, there are no stupid questions and when one builds things and put his best effect forward, that is his best at the time he built it. There are no teachers that will tell you you did a bum job are that what you have built is junk because it is the best you can do for now. This is how we learn and if there is anyone who does otherwise then that person is not a teacher and don't belong here. There are no projects that we build that we should be ashame of, because like I said it is the best we can do for now, and learn how to do it better. The teacher will guide us in the right direction and will not ridicule you, and there is no such thing as a dumb questions when one does not know, and no person here is smarter then you. He may know more about some things more than you, but you also know more about things then he doe not. It all depends on his schooling and his exposure. Keep in mind that we are all learners here.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2012, 04:02:06 AM
Bob...why both of course.  ;D

Pete...thanks. I'll be proud of it. It's really kind of interesting for me. The first 3 projects were kits with plans. This is more like poking around in the dark with the occasional light bulb going off and friends illuminating the way.

Keep in mind that we are all learners here.

Learners AND teachers. It was the teacher side I was thinking of.
That ruler across the knuckles lasts a lifetime.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 09, 2012, 04:59:19 AM
I was just having a bit of fun with you.  I am a consumate smart-ass, so feel free to get return shots in anytime.

I would never criticise anyone's setup unless it looked to be downright dangerous.  I certainly am no expert, so for me to critique someone else's work would be inappropriate.  I may offer suggestions from time to time, but any comments are made with the best intentions.

Mostly I spend about half my time in the shop trying to figure out how to do something without making it impossible to do the next operations afterwards.  So, setting up and fixturing is always interesting.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2012, 02:10:13 PM
No problem rleete. It was a valid comment.

...trying to figure out how to do something without making it impossible to do the next operations afterwards.

That was my 1st concern along with the possibility of ruining the part. On an earlier part I had drilled a hole and when I clamped it again, the hole was mashed. I should have waited to make the hole.

Couple of pics...

I struggled a lot with my vise. I had made soft jaws for it some time ago and put a 1/16 ledge in it thinking it would help with small parts. Not much luck there. I ended up putting the part in the main jaw and find I've lost 1/16 of height. Not good when playing with a 1/8 or 3/16 part!

I need to redo the jaws and I'm wondering whether it wouldn't have been better to put the ledge on only one side. Or whether the ledge should be milled along half the length of jaw rather than the whole length.

I haven't put grooves in the jaw yet (don't have the tool) but have considered drilling/tapping some holes for small clamps.

Here's a pic of what I was talking about when making the taper...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/f30d7fa2.jpg)

There's no side-to-side support for the link end. And I worried that I might mash the link. Note also that the link is not parallel with the clamp. So I was basically clamping on the very tip...or most likely bending the thing. It worked just fine but I was lucky rather than proper. I had calculated the height needed and placed shims under the link. (No idea how far off I was because of the other errors.)

I couldn't figure out how to place the end mill by measure. I eye-balled it. I brought the end mill down on the low side until one side of the end mill touched. Then ran along the length until I got to the link end.

Again...not very accurate. Note that I didn't take into account the extra 'lift' due to the strap end rotating on its cap corner. Better would be to use a rod through the hole and lay it on top of the vise. (I tried that...but had insufficient meat to hold onto.)

Keep in mind these dimensions don't need a high level of accuracy (other than thickness and the holes)...it was more important to get symmetry which was possible (more or less) by doing the same thing to both sides.

Another example of luck...

When I used the ball mill I wanted a small ledge between the cut and the rod. In hindsight I can see a better method but what I did was notice that the taper was below the top of the vise by an amount close to desired. So I used paper between the ball end and the top of the vise to set the height of the ball end. Then zipped across knowing that I wouldn't hit the other vise jaw.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/891a459a.jpg)

Ugly. No?

I don't know when I'll do the next control rod and wanted to get this out there.



Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on September 09, 2012, 02:41:32 PM
Carl, the rod looks great to me...parts that small are never easy but i think you have done a fine job on it.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 09, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
About the only thing I might have done differently would be to put a shim in the small end where you're clamping it.  that would help prevent crushing the U-shaped end, and possibly making the hole through it non-parallel.

Thanks for posting pics, it really helps to see and understand the text.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on September 09, 2012, 09:13:24 PM
Still with you and watching, Carl.  Just wanted you to know that.  :)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 09, 2012, 10:38:20 PM
Thanks Bill, rleete, and Dean.

rleete...the slot is vertical so I don't think I could have put a shim in. But it might have been worthwhile to stick a 3/32 rod in the hole to ensure it didn't get mashed. Thanks for the idea.

Started on one of the pedals.
Actually started on two but I'd misread the print and cut the stock for one wrong.

The pedals have an angle cut on them. 30 degrees for one and 45 for the other. One pedal (the one I cut wrong) is longer.

Problem was getting the angle. My angle plates are thicker than the part. But ho ho! That little trench in the top of my vise came to the rescue.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/e5e6dbc7.jpg)

There's actually quite a bit of meat below the top of the jaws. Still, with so much sticking up I took it a little at a time. I'm right happy with the meeting of the two faces.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/0b90df43.jpg)

I need to get more light down here. Photos are never really good and I can't see well enough to know if I'm in focus or not. (I had to tilt my lighted magnifying glass to see the part for the last few passes. With machine off of course.)

I'd thought about fully squaring the part first but thought it best to keep it thick for now. The only critical part is the sides of the tab and the hinge hole that will go through it. I expect the rest of the edges to get rounded - after all - it's meant for a foot, and my feet don't like sharp things.

I'm blessed with soft-as-a-baby skin on my feet.  :ThumbsUp:
Downside is they're always wet (keeping them soft) and therefore stinky.  :ThumbsDown:

And no, my feet aren't that small. Not even my big toe. But pinkie may want to have a go.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 09, 2012, 11:11:05 PM
Looking good Carl, I am here till you finish. You seem to be getting on track. I'm anxious to see it completed.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 10, 2012, 01:39:42 AM
It's coming along Zee!   Keep at it bud!

Dave

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 10, 2012, 02:07:05 AM
Thanks Don. You're going to be a here a while then. Glad to have you.
Thanks Dave. Trying to keep at it.

These two holes attach to a strap underneath through which the pivot bar goes through. Two little 0.125 bolts threaded for 0-80. Countersunk so they don't stick up.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/a16e85ae.jpg)

And therein lies the problem. My little bolt driver is 0.218 in diameter. But I didn't have a 7/32 end mill to counter sink with. I used a 3/16. I'll have to turn down or sand the bolt driver or come up with something else.

Here's the left pedal. Ready to have the bottom corners rounded. Maybe round the corner at the angle cut too. Also have to round the tab for the hinge pin. I have an idea on how to do the corners but will wait to finish the 2nd pedal. Not sure how I'll round the tab. It's 5/32 and seems a bit small for buttons. But we'll see.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/6cb85eca.jpg)

All along I was sure I was going to countersink the wrong side. But I think I'm okay.  ;D

The pedal is 1.0 by 2.45 and 5/32 thick. The other pedal is the same but 2.65 long.
Well hopefully not quite the same. That would mean I got the countersinks on the wrong side.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 10, 2012, 03:34:32 AM
Drat. Cut the 2nd pedal .03 too short in width.
Double Drat. Realized the tab on the 1st pedal is supposed to be 1/8, not 1/4.

Opposite of Double Drat! It's salvageable.

I can trim both sides of the 1st pedal by .015 (keeping the holes in the middle), trim the tab by 1/8 (less .015) and redo the angle cut.

It's okay if the pedal is .97 wide instead of 1.0.

No one will know.

And you'll forget.

Yes you will.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 10, 2012, 03:55:41 AM
Good save Carl, no we want mind. Besides it is your dimensions anyway. I would of never known if you had not said so. Keep plugging bud.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 10, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
Who says the original dimension wasn't .97 to begin with, and some lazy person rounded it to 1.00?  See, it's not your fault, you're just correcting an error!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 10, 2012, 01:45:58 PM
Already forgotten Carl, what was that irrelevant and trivial imperfection you mentioned?

You probably already know this, but one easy way to attack those odd sized counterbored holes is to get a spare drill and grind the end of it flat with suitable clearance. Just grind it by hand, it doesn't need to be perfect and obviously it doesn't need to be able to cut in the middle, because you drill the small hole first. You then use an ordinary drill first before finishing off with the flat bottom one. I still do nearly all my counterbores that way. Used to be common practice in the trade years ago, I've got no clue what's done these days. Just a thought though, it's your baby  ;)

 :cheers:
Steve

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 10, 2012, 05:00:26 PM
Thanks Don.
rleete...as you already know...that 'lazy person' is me.  ;D (Arnold doesn't know what 'lazy' is.)

Steve...good idea. Thanks much. 'make a tool' should have been my first thought. Not sure I understand what you mean by 'clearance' though.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on September 10, 2012, 06:33:54 PM
 :) Good going Carl - I'm also enjoying following along.

Quote
In hindsight I can see a better method but what I did was notice that the taper was below the top of the vise by an amount close to desired. So I used paper between the ball end and the top of the vise to set the height of the ball end. Then zipped across knowing that I wouldn't hit the other vise jaw.
;) I think you had the right idea afterwards...  But it does not matter; if the job gets done, it's done  :ThumbsUp: .  Just a side-note... Always check the clearance for the cutter above both vise jaws.  The movable jaw can rise up a bit on "lesser quality" or worn vises.  I know you have soft jaws fitted to the vise, but still, it could save that "ding" in a jaw.  And on hardened jaws, save a cutter or ding  :ThumbsUp:


Quote
(Arnold doesn't know what 'lazy' is.)
:shrug: I just can't be bothered to think out a suitable response to that...

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 10, 2012, 11:12:28 PM
:shrug: I just can't be bothered to think out a suitable response to that...

I'm too lazy to ask if you were too lazy to finish that thought.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 10, 2012, 11:25:45 PM
You two cut it out and get back to work!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 11, 2012, 12:24:12 AM
By "clearance" I mean how you sharpen a tool so it cuts at the tip rather than just rub. Sounds like you get the idea anyway. BTW - It's really moving forward nicely

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 11, 2012, 12:36:17 AM
Thanks Steve. Sounds similar to the drill I modified to make the seat in the safety valve for that little loco I bungled made some time ago.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 11, 2012, 02:54:12 AM
Got the other pedal ready for finishing and fixed the first.

Need to round the bottom corners. I don't like the straight edges along the sides but I don't know what I can do about it yet. Thought about a chamfer but that makes the corners difficult. Best thing I'm thinking is a radius cutter (don't know the proper name)...but I don't have one (and I can't make a good enough one) so I'll probably just round the corners and be done with it.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/af923759.jpg)

I'm finding a lot of little things need changing as I go. Not surprising. It's a plan in progress.

On the upside though I'm coming up with a few tweaks that don't require a complete re-do. I just don't know how to do them yet.  :Lol:

Just doing parts that hits my fancy. And they still need finishing.

And putting off the big scary flywheel.  ;D

[Edit] Oops...the bed is backwards.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 11, 2012, 03:20:55 AM
Coming along nicely Carl, one perfect piece at a time. Keep chiseling at it Carl, it be done before you know it.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 11, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Hey Zee,
It's coming along great! 

If your going to round the edges with a file, mount them side by side in the bench vice, line them up and work both of them at the same time.   That way they have a very good chance of being identical.    You may have to grab them with a piece of wood on one side if they are different thicknesses as the vice will only clamp the thick one otherwise.

Dave

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 12, 2012, 02:59:11 AM
Thank you Don and Dave.

I'll be thinking a bit on rounding the edges of the pedals. I have an idea of a jig for doing the bottom corners. I'm leaning towards a chamfer for the top edges (left, bottom, and right). Have to stay away from the tab. The angle cut could probably stay as it is. In any case, it seems a bit complicated and I'll have to consider how. Seems like the RT will be handy.

I didn't have much time tonight so I quickly tried a new leg. 3/16 instead of 1/8 and that meant there'd be a shoulder where the leg meets the frame. Turns out to be a whole lot stronger. I haven't finished the other end so it's a bit long in the picture.

I think it's better. Plus, it solves a problem I had with the pedal rod that attaches to the bottom of the two side legs. The rod has to have pins on both ends that insert into the legs. This gives me a bit more meat. I can put a couple of flats on the legs and use shoulder bolts of brass. Maybe.

When it comes to having two metals rotate against each other, I prefer to have dissimilar metals.
To each their own.  :ROFL:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/a45af519.jpg)

Oh hey! The bed is facing the right direction this time!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 12, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
I recently bought a set of rounding over bits from eBay.  8 or 10 different sizes, in a nice wood case for less than 50 bucks.  Makes things much easier.  I'll get you the link if you'd like.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on September 12, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Starting to come together now zee and looking good and well.....just like a spinster :)

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 12, 2012, 11:01:56 PM
Thanks rleete and Bill.

rleete...yes I'd like the link. I'm stuck between buying sets of tools or onesies, twosies as I need them. I can pay a bit more for a good onesie or pay less for a bunch of cheapies. For tools I've never used I tend to go cheap. My learning to use them tends to destroy them. Once I get comfortable then I want the better tool. Just my way. With a cheap set I also get a feel for what I think I would use most in the future...that is identifying the onesie twosie that would likely be most used.

Right now I have crap end mills that need replacing, a bunch of drill bits that are questionable, and I'd really like to get better measuring tools.

Of course, I expect someone to pop up and say..."If you're only going to use it once...then make one". Which I'd consider if I was any good at even sharpening plain cutters.  :disappointed:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 12, 2012, 11:53:41 PM
PM sent with the link.  He also sels mill sets, similar to LMS and Enco. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 13, 2012, 01:36:14 AM
Got the link. Thanks. I'll check out his other offerings too. First I'll lock my wallet up.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 18, 2012, 10:43:32 PM
I'm here but not there.

Having withdrawal...

Can't see member's pics (on work laptop)
Can't smell my machines (I might be able to simulate the shop though)
Can't play with my toys

Just a hungry bear sitting behind bars watching the occasional taste treat go by.
Actually,  I'm more like Scrat and his acorn.
We're probably all like Scrat when the delivery arrives.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 19, 2012, 12:24:50 AM
OH Zee!    You seem so forlorn!......think happy thoughts of perfect parts.... ;D

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on September 19, 2012, 04:19:23 AM
OH Zee!    You seem so forlorn!......think happy thoughts of perfect parts.... ;D
Dave

and may all your parts be as good as the ones you have made already
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on September 19, 2012, 10:30:32 AM
OH Zee!    You seem so forlorn!......think happy thoughts of perfect parts.... ;D
Dave

and may all your parts be as good as the ones you have made already
Pete

Absolutely!


Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 23, 2012, 07:44:39 PM
And I'm back! Even better...she's gone on a business trip now.
Shop time with no interruptions (if you don't count the daughters...sigh).

I redid the legs and made them 3/16 instead of 1/8. Also drilled the holes in two of the legs for the pedal bar.

Then made the pedal bar and straps to hold the pedals to it.

I turned down some 3/16 rod to 1/8 in steps of about 1/4" for 3.4 inches. I didn't want to deal with the offset of the tailstock. I suppose a follower could be used but I've learned little about that. Also turned a couple of areas a bit smaller to keep the straps from moving.

Made the straps from one piece of 1/4 x 1/4 brass, then cut them apart and cleaned the end to size.

After a bit of filing and sanding, the bar came out pretty good.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/pedalbar_zps341b27b4.jpg)

Of course, none of that went without incident. Somehow I inserted my #55 drill in the mill's chuck upside down.  :facepalm: Although I noticed it just as I came down on the brass...the working end somehow got broken. Luckily I had another (my last).

Here's a pic showing the bar and how the pedals would sit on it. I'll be making a small support to go between the bedals. Otherwise that bar is going to sag. That bar should probably be steel or something harder but that can always be done if needed.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/pedalpreassembly_zpsb0efaa8e.jpg)

Now keep an eye out. A more disastrous discovery is to be made.

Here's a pic showing the underside of the pedals with the bar and straps. I'd wanted to mill the straps with a round trough for the bar but my end mill is too short. So I made the troughs square.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/pedalstrap_zps2d4a9afe.jpg)

Did you notice yet? No? Well maybe this will help. Here's the same pic with the straps off to the side.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/pedalstrapbooboo_zps3b516047.jpg)

Wait for it...

Crap!

I'd made a mistake on the drawing of the pedals. The holes are supposed to be 1/2" apart instead of 1/4". (The drawing has a 1/2" marking but used the wrong reference.)

Options:
1) Remake the pedals (I'd rather not. At least not yet.)
2) Add the 3rd hole and put a dummy bolt in the middle one. That would work but anyone (other than myself) would wonder what that bolt is attached to.
3) Make a plug and skim the top in hopes it won't show. Yeah. Sure.
4) Just add the 3rd hole.

Easy choice. Option number 4. Given that I intend to round the edges and still need to round the tab for the hinge...Option number 1 will most likely follow anyway.  :Lol:

[Edit] Just realized I could make another set of straps with the mounting holes 1/4 apart. Wouldn't have to redo the pedals. Looks close but I think it'll work.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 23, 2012, 10:49:35 PM
Hi Carl!  glad to see you back at it again. I see no problem making the straps smaller. Even plugging the hold is still a option. Just make sure to plug it with the same material it would blend together better. It is starting to really take shape and looking great.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 23, 2012, 11:27:45 PM
Forgot to thank Dave and Pete in my last post for their replies. Thanks!

Thanks also Don. By the way, I've sent you a couple of emails.

On another note...

As I mentioned earlier, I broke a #55 drill bit.
I've been lucky in that a nearby hardware store usually has a stock of wire gauge bits that I can buy in one-sies. Not this time. Out of stock.
The brand was Master Mechanic and I was pretty happy with it.
I'd rather not buy kits or sets of bits. I'm getting a pretty good idea of what bits I use most often.
Anyone have suggestions where I can buy on-line decent (not necessarily the best!) bits in one-sies?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 29, 2012, 03:24:21 PM
Hm...running into problems in the maiden area. Or rather, how to mount the maiden onto the supports. Some dimensions are just too small to be practical and I'm not sure I like the overall look. I'm going to have to get familiar with Alibre so I can see what the final model looks like.

To help myself I thought I'd do some work on the maiden itself. Enough at least so I can put it together and see what's what. I already have a bobbin and part of the flyer. Enough to use but they'll have to be remade later.

So I worked on the whorl.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/whorl_zpsb9de3ef5.jpg)

The smaller diameter will have a sleeve bearing on it and will be held by one end of the maiden. It's tapped part way (5-40) for a shoulder bolt. The two grooves gives two flyer speed selections from the flywheel.

Here's the back side. I wanted an integral washer for the bobbin to run against.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/whorlspacer_zps076cb205.jpg)

Took less than two hours (with several interruptions) and I'm pretty happy with it.

It would have been best to make a special cutter for the grooves. All I did was use a part-off tool and then filed the outer edges a bit to round them.

Must admit to one boo-boo. I drilled and reamed for 3/32 through and then drilled out part way for the 5-40 and then tapped. When I worked the 3/32 I forgot I needed to use a 5/64 first. So reaming did nothing. Luckily it shouldn't matter. The flyer doesn't spin in it.

Instead, the shoulder bolt's end is shaped as a D as well as the end of the flyer rod. They mate together in the whorl so that the whorl drives the flyer.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on September 29, 2012, 04:04:17 PM
Ya' musta have run out of M&Ms and are now using coins as a size reference Zee'?  :ROFL: The parts are TINY :o  thats a fact. Looking good though.  :ThumbsUp:  Most certainly there should be another source of drill bits in your area, Hansen is another brand that I have seen in hardware stores. Maybe a gunsmith shop or a big-box store? It's always such a PIA when this type of situation arises, kind of makes one want to  sit in the corner and stare at the wall doesn't it.


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on September 29, 2012, 06:02:55 PM
Glad to see you still chipping away at it. 

BTW, I think you're too hard on yourself.  Part looks good, so go with it.  If you constantly remake parts, you'll lose your motivation.  At least I do.  Sometimes you just gotta look past the minor imperfections and get on with it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on September 29, 2012, 06:39:56 PM
 :ThumbsUp: Looking VERY good Carl  :)

 :thinking: Just a thought...  Marv also mentioned this in the past...  Why do you want to buy your small drills in onesies ?  OK, I know odd-sized drills in the smaller sizes can be hellishly expensive, but at least try and buy them in threesies or more, and then replace them with onesies or twosies as soon as they get broken or dull, especially the sizes you use most - that way you should always have stock and not get in a pickle over a weekend or when the local suppliers are out of stock. 
Everybody have drills of sizes that are not often used; I've started to see which ones from my lot that is, and I tend to fall back to them for drilling pilot holes and so on; that way they also get used  :ThumbsUp:

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on September 29, 2012, 07:00:31 PM
Yeah, what Arnold said.

Also remember that most models do not require great thread strength.  In extremis, using the next size up from the recommended tap drill will only produce slightly less thread engagement and will also decrease the probability of breaking a tap.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on September 29, 2012, 07:01:10 PM
Hi Carl, it all looks good to me and glad to see you still progressing. Arnold is correct  buy the sizes you use the most in lots of twos and threes. I am always breaking bits and taps and glad to have spares or I would have one of those $&@8(: moments.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 29, 2012, 07:27:24 PM
Thanks guys.

Sorry about confusing you all. By 'onesies' I meant buying one size at a time rather than a set. When I go to the hardware store and find one I want...I buy at least two if I still have one left or three if I have none.

rleete...yes I'm usually pretty hard on myself. On the plus side...I end up with better quality. On the minus side...it's difficult to get that satisfied feeling. But I'm okay with it. If I don't get sufficient quality I certainly won't be satisfied.

Marv..good tip and I've done that a few times. Right now though I'm drilling for 50% thread (mostly because I lack the right bit) instead of 75% so I'm thinking I'm already at the limit.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 30, 2012, 01:14:30 AM
To quote myself... "and I'm pretty happy with it".
Uh...no.

Just a little post here as personal therapy. Hope you don't mind. Something of a blog.

As previously mentioned, the morning went well.
Lunch was great too. Met up with some of the guys from this and the old forum. It was a good time.
I'd like to blame them for jinxing me, but that would be unfair. Feels good. But unfair.

Made the brass sleeve for the whorl at which point I realized the whorl was wrong. The dimension of the smaller diameter is too small and even if it were bigger would mean aluminum rotating against aluminum. I'll have to redesign the sleeve. In addition, the whorl is too short by about 1/64 or 1/32. When I put the shoulder bolt in, the bolt would be against the holding post.

The shoulder bolt is a problem also. It has a 3/32 rod (with a D shaped end) followed by threading for 5-40. I thought there would be enough clearance but when I threaded the 5-40 it bit into the 3/32. Not a big deal really but it shouldn't have been a surprise.

What I wanted to do was make preliminary maiden parts so I could verify the design and give everyone an idea of what it was going to look like. I'd started with the part that would hold the end of the whorl. I have questions whether it would really work or look good. Initially I was real happy. It's basically a rectangular part and I was within half a thou in all directions. Then my last drill bit broke inside when drilling for the 1st 0-80. No more bits.

It doesn't help that a spider just dropped down on me from my basement ceiling. (Worse than that snake that went across my foot a couple of years ago.)

Haven't seen a locust or water in the basement so maybe I'm okay.

After another 'Crap! This is so frustrating! I'll never get this!', it is time for my usual therapeutic response...

"Take a break Phillips. Make yourself a 'stinking Hoppie'. Clean up the shop and relax. Remember Scarlett."

...time passes...

All of this is to be expected. My plan is working. Learning means failing. Not enough people understand that.

Roller coaster of life is headed up again. Without the downs you can't appreciate the ups.

Anybody got their kleenex out yet? Sheesh.

Drat. Tomorrow I promised I'd get involved in house work.  :whoohoo:

Hm...seems like an edit is in order. Something about that  :whoohoo:


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on September 30, 2012, 01:37:47 AM
Well - it's all progress isn't it Carl? You're getting there

regarding drills, I've bought quite a few of these, which are good and come in packs of 5. But the shipping time may be too slow for your tastes.

http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-378/HSS-TIN-TITANIUM-COATED/Detail (http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-378/HSS-TIN-TITANIUM-COATED/Detail)

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on September 30, 2012, 02:53:38 PM
Thanks Steve.

Taking a break from my 'therapy', I wanted to show a bit more of the flyer.

These are (most of) the various bits...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/flyerbits_zps1a9bb863.jpg)

Top left is part of the spindle. The left end rotates in a post. The right end is attached to the flyer which is shown just beneath. A hole goes from the left to what will be a hole through the center part. That's what the fiber is fed through.

Thinking I had a 3/32 collet, I was going to drill that center hole later. Turns out I don't have a 3/32 collet. The stock is 1/4 and I should have drilled that hole first and then turned the part.

Two of those rods are the legs of the flyer. The third goes through the center of the flyer and into the spindle end. I'm thinking of bolting all three together with 0-80 through the flyer.

To the right is the whorl.
To the right of the whorl is a brass sleeve that the whorl rotates in. The sleeve is held by a post.

Lastly, the bottom right is screwed into the whole. The end of it has a D shape that works against the spindle rod. You can see how the tip of it was scored with the 5-40 die. Not a problem though.
 
That should result in something looking like this...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/flyerproto_zps28754c22.jpg)

The flyer legs are overly long. The final ones won't go past the end of the bobbin.

The aluminum square rod kind of shows how it gets mounted to the maiden head. The left one will rotate and the right one has a slot in it that the assembly goes into. A removable pin will keep the flyer assembly in the slot.

In operation, you remove that pin, take hold of the right end, and rotate away from the right post. Then you can pull the whorl off and then the bobbin. No need to unscrew that end piece (the hex which I will probably replace with knurled rod).

The spindle is locked to the flyer arms and driven by the D shaped bit in the whorl. The spinning wheel drives the whorl and the whole thing spins except for the bobbin. The bobbin freely rotates on the spindle rod and is driven by spinning wheel. The different diameters means the spindle rotates at a different speed than the bobbin.

Hopefully that gives some sense of what I'm attempting.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 01, 2012, 11:54:16 PM
From Simon:

While doing this I had an "oh crap, I've done something wrong" moment.

From Jo:

I think I have seen it called somewhere on the forum as "having a Zee" moment. 

From me:

Not wishing to sully Simon's thread I must respond here...

I have to admit, when I read Simon's post, the first thing that came to mind was someone, some one, was going to take an opportunity. I even made bets on who. I was wrong.  :disappointed:

This is one of things that can stick to you (leave the image)...like a bad nickname. And while yes, I had offered to share by stating "my crap is your crap"...I must take back that offer. Too soon it will become 'zeecrap' or 'crapster' or worse. Henceforth...

"My crap is My crap."

It just doesn't measure up to other people's crap. And no one knows my crap as well as I. It's a personal relationship thing...right?

Not that others shouldn't use crap. I'm just saying they have their crap and I have mine.

BTW...all of the above is crap. I'm really happy to share. Send me a pre-paid stamped self-addressed envelope and I'll help you out.  Add a buck or two and I'll wrap it. :naughty:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 02, 2012, 12:03:18 AM
How about "Oh, Zee!"?

As in "Oh, Zee!, I broke the tap and it's my last one."    :Mad:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 04, 2012, 06:25:35 PM
How about "Oh, Zee!"?

As in "Oh, Zee!, I broke the tap and it's my last one."    :Mad:

Please no. It's subject to mutating.
Soon it would be "Oh Zeep!" or "Oh Zeepster" which would be synonymous with the person...me!
Or worse, become more feminine (?) as in "Oh Zeepstie" which would eventually be mispronounced and come out as 'Zippy'.

And I don't want to be known as 'Zippy'.

Let's stick with 'Crap'

We'll be back to our regular station very soon. I promise. Or my name is...
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 04, 2012, 07:12:43 PM
Is that Jimminy Cricket I hear singing?

"Zippity doo dah, zippity aye...."



(Ya leave the door wide open like that, and who knows what will wander in!)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 04, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
As an academic I find it fascinating the terms the different nationalities on the forum use to express a moment in the workshop that did not go as planned. Most can be traced back to good old Anglo-saxon English and have tour letters. So sorry your name "Zee" fails that important criteria :happyreader:.

 I personally prefer to use the word "wood" which as well as being Anglo-saxon and having four letters, I  find effective to recite when things go badly wrong or I have to work with the said material  :paranoia:

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 04, 2012, 07:43:16 PM
Well I know you do not like to work in wood (I seldom do woodwork - except on my house) Jo, but it has one important quality in this sense - ALL evidence of mishaps are completely gone after it has been used to heat the house during winter time ....  :thinking:

Zee - I certaily understand why ending up as the expression for a (bad ?) mistake, isn't the way you want to be remembered.  (Ups writing error, corrected now)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on October 04, 2012, 08:13:53 PM
There are many four letter Anglo Saxon words which when followed by "UP" aptly describe the "UP" event.

Somehow Jo, "A WOODUP" does not have the necessary "UMPH" to satisfy the intensity of these all to frequent, (well at least in my workshop), moments.

ZeeCarl will be pleased that I am of the same opinion of "CARLUP" and "ZEEPUP"

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 04, 2012, 09:17:09 PM
Hm...seems like we need another thread. Could name it 'craptitude'.

So sorry your name "Zee" fails that important criteria

I appreciate the attempt. But aliases include 'Zeep', 'Zeepster', along with their 'Mini-' forms...and of course 'Hey' (but never 'Hey you').
Around the home I'm also known as "you're an idiot" or "you turd".

I like Admiral_dk's eraser (and I also enjoy working with wood).

Thanks Bob. You're right, ZEEPUP and CARLUP just doesn't cut it.

I sure hope I can get some crap parts made this weekend  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 04, 2012, 09:27:19 PM
I believe there have been several academic studies that showed that being allowed to curse, truly curse, during painful or exasperating moments lessens the neurological impact of those experiences.

Not surprisingly,  weenie words like "wood", "zee..", "darn", and "crap" didn't provide relief and real curse words (I presume I don't have to supply examples) were required.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 04, 2012, 10:50:11 PM
Have you ever noticed that when you injure yourself that the volume emitted afterward is a direct inverse to actual damage?  You stub your toe, hammer your thumb, etc. and you swear/scream/curse.  But if you break a bone, cut yourself deeply or something more serious, that you are temporarily rendered speechless?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 04, 2012, 10:52:27 PM
Mr. Zeeprogrammer, sir.  We humbly request your pardon for our sidetracking your thread.   
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 04, 2012, 11:02:01 PM
...being allowed to curse, truly curse, during painful or exasperating moments lessens the neurological impact of those experiences.

Not working for me right now...and I mean RIGHT now.  :Lol:

Might be due to what the pain and exasperation emanates from. I guess it's not reading my thread.  :Lol:
Let me know if it helps you lot out. I mean, reading my thread.

[Edit] It's my own fault rleete.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 06, 2012, 04:10:05 PM
And now onto another topic...I mean the original topic  :Lol:

Still waiting on some drill bits so I'm trying to make what I can without them.

Started on the maiden base. I had to redraw them last night as I (dare I say it?) had second thoughts.
Still not sure about it. I may need a couple of washers and didn't account for their spacing. I'm counting on the fact that I'll probably cut under/oversize and find I'll have room anyway.  ;D Not a biggie if I redo a couple of parts. History has a way of repeating.

However, here's the odd thing that I can't figure out. I needed a hole on either end of a bar. 3/32D and a little over 1/8 deep. In that hole goes the end of a bolt. (It acts as a hinge.)

I measure the diameter of the bolt - about 0.091 (needed a little less than the 3/32 so it rotates).
I read 3/32 off the end mill but measured it as well - about 0.091 plus a thou or two.

But when I insert the bolt into the hole...man does it wobble. I can see a gap that must be easily .005 if not closer to .01. Used my transfer punch set...hole is bigger than 3/32 and smaller than 7/64. Both holes...it wasn't a one-off.

I can make the bolt end a bit bigger and test fit as I turn it (not while running).
But I'm going to have to figure out what happened.

I've gotten away with 3 hours in the shop. I think my time's run out.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on October 06, 2012, 04:58:54 PM
I also find endmills tend to drill oversize Carl. I just avoid using them as drills unless I'm not fussed about size. They do leave a nice finish on the hole though, but are no substitute for a reamer.

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 06, 2012, 05:06:30 PM
If I want to drop an accurate hole somewhere and I have not got a reamer then I normally use a  D bit :ThumbsUp:, rather than a slot drill :hellno:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 06, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
Ah! Good points Steve and Jo. Thanks for that.  :facepalm:

I know abut drills wandering but it hadn't occurred to me I could have the same issue with end mills.
Makes sense now of course. Especially since it's a small end mill.

I'd forgotten to mention they are blind holes and that's why I didn't go for a reamer.
Are there such things as reamers for blind holes?

Also, given that the end mill wanders like a drill bit, would I have been better off to start with a smaller hole and go up? I'm thinking not since there isn't anything to help 'point' the way.

I suppose a counter-bore would be another solution. But I don't have one that small. Plus, I believe it requires a pilot hole and that would have gone deep.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 06, 2012, 07:02:05 PM

Are there such things as reamers for blind holes?

Yes they are called  :happyreader: D bits: Let me know if you need details about making these.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: jonesie on October 06, 2012, 07:11:45 PM
zee if you are going to use an endmill to finish a hole just drill the hole .005 to .010 under size then use the mill. do not hold the mill in a drill chuck they will never run true , use it in  a collet in the mill. you can also flaten the cutting edge on a drill that is the size you want, again drill uner by a few thou. and then use the drill with the flattened cutting edge,for a couple of holes it will cut like a reamer . again do not hold the end mills in a drill chuck. good luck jonesie
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 06, 2012, 08:14:56 PM
Thanks Jo. Of course they're called D bits  :facepalm: That's going to remind a few folks of my trials on the old forum. Eh Marv? Dean?

At some point I'm going to have to give it a go. If I recall correctly, take some steel (maybe drill/silver rod), mill/turn to shape, harden it, then touch it a bit with a sharpening stone. I think Dean had a little something about that on his site.

Thanks jonesie. Yes...I use a collet whenever I can. Good idea there and similar to what Steve had mentioned earlier. But I forgot.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 06, 2012, 08:32:51 PM
Managed some pics.

This shows the maiden base on which the flyer and whorl are mounted.
The left hole is for the left support of the flyer assembly and allows it to rotate.
The two holes on the right are for the right support.
The right support will have a slot in it so that as you rotate the flyer assembly it sits in the slot.
A pin is inserted from the top of the support to hold it.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbar_zpse369c2ab.jpg)

That left hole is right but I milled a little too much off the side.

That squarish bit attaches to the front of the maiden base and extends down.
The maiden base itself rotates in a u-shaped piece. The squarish bit extends down past that to keep the maiden from rotating. At the same time, a screw will go through that lower part and against the squarish bit.  That way, once the bands are in place, you can use the screw to rotate the assembly backwards, applying pressure between the bands and the bobbin and whorl.

All will become clear...someday.

Here's a mockup. You can see the squarish bit attached and how the assembly can rotate in and out.
At the ends of the long bar are holes for shoulder bolts used as hinges in the u-shaped part.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbarmockup_zpsf1831b23.jpg)

Now I must go about my house duties. I can hear the tapping of the foot through the floor.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on October 07, 2012, 12:38:56 AM
"I can hear the tapping of the foot through the floor." 
:mischief:  :stir:

That is cool Carl. The second photo is instantly recognisable.

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 07, 2012, 07:44:55 PM
Got some more time in the shop but the foot tapping is reaching a crescendo...must post and go.

Worked on what I call the maiden base (prior part was the maiden bar...but I'll probably go back and forth and confuse everyone).

First step was to square up a piece and then drill/tap the holes in the ends for the pivot hinges. Then  I went to milling out the slots that the maiden stand will attach to. As I was milling a 'CRA-!' was issuing from my basement...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbaseoops_zps49740cd8.jpg)

[Just need to finish this post!]

...but it was cut short as I realized all was okay. As you'll see, the inner portion gets milled down.

Here it is ready for milling down. Pivot holes are in the ends, the slots are ready for the stand, and that other hole is for a thumbscrew that pushes against the lever I mentioned in an earlier post.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbasereadytomill_zps4dccd5c5.jpg)

[Be there in a minute!]

Then to milling the insides. Not sure this is a correct/good method but it came out better than the maiden bar (base?) I did earlier. I first lined up t the right edge, brought the mill down the required (desired!) depth and set my z-stop on the mill. Then went back and forth (in Y) until I reached the depth. Then shot over to the other end and did the same. Last time I kept doing that along the insides but things weren't so smooth at the bottom. This time I kept the mill at depth and ran back and forth along X taking a little off at a time.

Was happy with the method so I took this shot...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbasemilling_zps836bf3f1.jpg)

[Just a few seconds more!]

And of course then things went a bit awry. When it got what I thought was thin enough, I went to take it all. Bits started snapping off so I backed off. And here it is...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbase_zps82a4d1a5.jpg)

[Almost done!]

Naturally it wasn't until after that I thought I may have put the slots on the wrong side (I was happy enough that I got both pivot holes on the same edge). No matter, the maiden stand can be made either way and actually I think this is better.

Now for the mock-up...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/maidenbasemockup_zpsafc0c815.jpg)

[I'm NOT sitting down!]

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with it. Looks like there's sufficient room to put a brass washer at the hinge points.

You can see how that lever works now. The bands will pull on the flyer assembly and the screw behind the lever will counteract that...putting more/less pressure on the bobbin and whorl.

The bit of rod on the left is just there to hold things together.

What's missing is the support block on the right. The brass sleeve will sit in that.

You can't see the base for the right support behind the maiden bar (base?). It looks like it may be wee bit too far right. But that's a whole lot better than being too far left. I can make either the bobbin or the whole a bit longer.

You'll also notice some of the faces weren't machined. I'm running out of suitable material and didn't want to mill away large pieces. Not critical for the lever and I think the maiden base will be okay with some light sanding.

[Yes yes. I'm on my way!]

Time for coffee and a snack. What can I say? After all, she did say 'yes'...to my buying a lathe  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 07, 2012, 08:07:31 PM
Looking good.  Real progress today.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tvoght on October 07, 2012, 08:08:04 PM
Don't know crap about spinning, but that looks pretty cool.

--Tim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 07, 2012, 10:11:54 PM
Thanks Tim and rleete.

Don't know crap about spinning, but that looks pretty cool.

Oh har har.  :Lol:

Just a few notes...

There's going to be a lot of cleanup and finishing. I'm saving some of the rounding operations for later in hopes I can do them in as few a sessions as possible without having to change vise and/or rotary table not to mention pants. I'll have to see what all has to be done and how.

I'm a bit concerned about all the sharp corners but for now the main goal is to get parts made, dimensions set, and most important...see if it will actually work.

I feel okay about most of it. The biggie (or teenie depending on perspective) are the flyer legs. Most of the prototypes I've come across use 4 to 6 open eyelets screwed along each leg. Why both legs I don't know. Why there's even two legs I don't know unless it's for balance or convenience when moving the fiber. The reason for the eyelets is that as fiber is fed it spools on the bobbin in the area of that eyelet. To keep the fiber rolling along the length of the bobbin you have to move the fiber to another eyelet.

So the arms are 3/32 in diameter. Pretty small. It would be enough for me to see the bobbin turn at a faster speed than the whorl. But if that works, I'll be itching to see if I can wind some threads on the bobbin. (Instead of spinning yarn from fiber, I'll just spin two threads together.) If I do anything, I'll be happy with one eyelet (or something akin to it) just so I can see thread being wound on the bobbin.

Perhaps bent wire loctited in place? Maybe an offset hole through the leg with an open side? Maybe an oversize machined eyelet that screws to the leg? Don't know. Luckily the legs are bolted to the flyer arm and I can make however many I need to.

I think it's going to sand out well. Still not sure about the looks of the bed but we'll see how it looks once the flywheel and crank are in place.

I gotta get the maiden stand done. It's going to be cool to see the flyer assembly on top.

Hope my drill bits come in tomorrow.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 07, 2012, 11:51:41 PM
One more part done...

This is the pin that sits in the top of the support block that will hold one end of the flyer assembly. It keeps the flyer assembly from rotating.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/supportpin_zps84bfb209.jpg)

Even with such a simple part...disaster is part of my life.

As you can see, the part is knurled. I hadn't done any knurling since the very beginning of this hobby (hm...3 years now?) when I made a little hammer (aluminum handle and brass head) that I use on the mill to knock the thingie down to release a collet or chuck.

Needed to swap out the quick change tool post for the original tool post to hold the knurler.
Hm...what's this pin looking thing? Ah! It goes in this hole. Hm...what's this spring for?
To help push the pin up so it doesn't fall into the hole. That hole you just dropped the pin in.
That hole from which you may never retrieve that pin.
Tried some sticky stuff. Took the cross slide off hoping there was a hole underneath...nope.
So there it stays.  :cussing:

After knurling I turned the pin down to 3/32. Since the pin is about 5/8 long and would deflect, I turned in steps of a little more than an 1/8. Then I rounded the end and chamfered the knurled part with a file.

Ah! I remember now. The thingie is the draw bar!
I close now feeling somewhat better.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 08, 2012, 12:04:16 AM
Looks liked your are almost ready tp start spinning thread there Carl. Really starting to take shape I like it.
Keep the photos coming. Nice job on the knurl for the pin.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 08, 2012, 12:05:10 AM
The knurling looks very good considering how small the part is.

Re the pin in the hole...

Try the shop vac.  Must I tell you to clean out the vacuum can before the trial?  If you do this sort of thing often, you could make a muslin sleeve to fit over the hose end inside the tank and act as a catch net.  You could call it a thingie catcher.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 08, 2012, 12:44:04 AM
Thanks Don. I was pretty pleased although I'm wondering if a bit more chamfer is in order.

Try the shop vac.  ... You could call it a thingie catcher.

More like "Zeep's Folly".

Nice suggestion. I'll give it a suck.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 09, 2012, 01:14:09 AM
Made the screw that goes against the lever tonight. No picture. Looks just like the pin I made earlier...except it's screwed.

I forgot it's Columbus Day...no mail...no drill bits...bummer.

Starting to think about the crank. That's going to be an adventure.
I should start a pool...

First go?
Second go?
Third go?

Well we all know it won't happen on the first go.
If I go past the second go...I won't have enough brass for two tries at the flywheel.
So I'm betting on the third go.  :Lol:

Cause I never win my bets.

Man I'm enjoying this hobby.
And that's no crapola.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 09, 2012, 05:51:06 AM
Firmly ensconced in the corner and watching!

 :DrinkPint:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on October 09, 2012, 11:32:29 AM
Getting closer now Zee...given any thought to the video yet?  I think MEM deserves it own extra special Zeepster video...and since this is a textile related project...maybe even the tutu can have a part  :whoohoo:

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 09, 2012, 12:01:02 PM
Thanks Dave.
Thanks Bill.
You've seen my past videos so you may want to have a 'second thought'  ;D
It'll be a while before it's video time but your comment has me thinking.  :noidea:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on October 09, 2012, 01:32:43 PM
Enjoying the journey and the patter
thanks :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 10, 2012, 12:17:11 AM
Thanks Frazer.

Ahhh...a good day. A two-fer!  :whoohoo:

Got my drill bits for one.
Got cable into the basement for the other.

Up to now I had been using Slingbox to watch the news. But that also meant watching whatever 'they' were watching upstairs. Two young adult daughters and a wife meant interesting programming. Right.

Then the daughters got into 'discussions' about what to watch and wife was none to happy either.
 
:noidea:

So...switched services. Everybody got their own system and it turned out to be a cheaper system.

But Slingbox didn't work anymore and the computer I was using for it wouldn't connect...so now I was the one wanting.

Today I got a new cable line into the basement.

Man I am set (he said).

Shop, TV, stocked fridge...I could almost stay down here forever.
All I gotta do is convince her to resupply me once in a while.

Hm. No bathroom.
But there is the sump pump over in the corner for emergencies.  ::)

P.S. "All I gotta do is..."  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 10, 2012, 02:06:53 AM
Here ya go, Zee:  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/hunters-loo-seat-camo.aspx?a=278123
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 10, 2012, 02:19:00 AM
Great idea rleete. Kinda of goes against my philosophy though.

It has to be emptied.
That sounds like work.

Dirty work.

It has to be carried out of the basement.
An accident could happen on the way up the stairs.
I believe in Murphy's Law and his many corollaries. It WILL happen.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 10, 2012, 02:26:55 AM
You simply have to be more coniving.  Get a cat (for the wife/daughters).  Put the litter box down near the shop.  Make them clean it out.

Empty Zee bucket into literbox. 

Problem solved.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 10, 2012, 12:20:14 PM
Murphy.

To pick it up is to drop it.

Make them clean it out.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Too funny.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 10, 2012, 11:40:00 PM
Question:

I have a part that is 1/4 thick, 1/2 wide, and 13/16 high.
I need to slot it along the 1/2 dimension.
The slot is 1/4 wide with a 1/8 radius at the end.
I'm pondering how.

One thought:
1) Drill the end something smaller than 1/4D and rough out the slot to the edge.
2) Then plunge a 1/4 end mill at the end of the slot and move out to edge.
No?

Or replace 2 by putting the part on the RT and mill around the edges to size. I worry a little about that one.

Thanks for any and all (pertinent, relevant, somewhat meaningful) suggestions.
For all other suggestions please post them in Chatterbox.  :Lol:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 10, 2012, 11:58:55 PM
If you're cutting a 1/4" slot with a 1/4" endmill ensure that it's a two flute endmill.  A four flute will cut oversize.  Flush the cut so that you're not recutting swarf.

If it has to be dead nuts on 1/4" rough it out with a 3/16" and then trim the sides until it's 1/4".

The Brits distinguish between endmills and slot drills.  I've never seen "slot drills" for sale over here so I'll let them cover that nuance.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 11, 2012, 12:04:54 AM
I believe the translation Marv is a 2 flute end mill here is a "Slot mill" there.....or words and music....da di da di da.

dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 11, 2012, 12:11:35 AM
I think you're correct, Dave, but I didn't want to put words in the Brits' mouth.  They get all tiddly when you do that.

Actually, center-cutting endmill = slot drill, I think.  They need to be able to plunge cut.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 11, 2012, 12:15:22 AM
Thanks Marv.
Thanks Dave.

I'll give it a try.

I'm thinking you need a break Dave. Relax a bit.  :Lol:

but I didn't want to put words in the Brits' mouth.  They get all tiddly when you do that.

Marv..I'm not familiar with the machining term 'tiddly'.
And...is it the words that get tiddly? Or the Brits?  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 11, 2012, 01:14:52 AM
Actually...I've been home for two days with the head cold from hell!

 ::)

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 11, 2012, 01:53:46 AM
Sorry to hear you're feeling puny Dave. Hope you get well soon. But that does explain the 'da di da di da'.

So having gained some confidence from Marv and Dave...here we go...

This is the setup. The part to slot is on the right. The bit on the left with some shims is to give some support to the vise.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/rightsupport1_zpsca548fab.jpg)

Then I took a 2-flute 3/16 end mill and chain plunged to the side. Surprisingly easy!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/rightsupport2_zps3c591289.jpg)

Final cut with a 2-flute 1/4 end mill.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/rightsupport3_zpsfffcc98c.jpg)

I'm happy with it. I still need to chamfer the ends of the slot and the top of the part, and then drill/tap two 0-80 in the bottom. Plenty of opportunity for a visit from my dear friend Murphy.

Oh my! Did I check that I slotted in the right direction?  :hellno:
step step stumble stumble run run...
Yes! It's good.  :whoohoo:
You may not see it in the picture but there's a hole running along from the top along one side that will hold a pin.

Oh those bits of orange you see between the parallels? Well some of you may remember. I use foam to keep the parallels from moving around. Here's where the foam came from...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/IMG_4495.jpg)

Appropriate for this time of year.

Off topic:

Every year the family buys pumpkins for Halloween and sets them about the house.
'Oh how neat it looks!' they say. 'Oh isn't this festive!' they say.
And then they forget about them. Until one day when they ask...
"What's that smell?" and realize it isn't me.
Who gets to clean it up? Me.  :ShakeHead:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 11, 2012, 07:08:16 AM
Actually...I've been home for two days with the head cold from hell!

 ::)

Dave

I think he is coming down with somethink known as SB9 scrapeing syndrome :D.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 11, 2012, 12:23:29 PM
OH I wish....I have aweful stuff coming out of my EARS!... :hellno:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 11, 2012, 12:43:16 PM
Looks good Zee....carefull with the clamped vise set up and cutting a slot....sometimes the vise will close up on the tool...if your lucky...the part is oversize....otherwise...it grabs....it depends...but apparently.....ya done good!
 :NotWorthy:
Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 11, 2012, 12:59:12 PM
OH I wish....I have aweful stuff coming out of my EARS!... :hellno:

Pink and convoluted? Experiencing memory loss? You might consider a couple of plugs.
In any case...keep it to yourself.  :Lol:

Good point on the vise closing up. Wonder if it would have helped to slot from the inside.
I did do a trial fit and it went well. Had it not though I could have adjusted the sleeve that will sit in it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: jonesie on October 11, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
zee sometimes if the part is big enough just move the part so that the slot is out past the vise jaws then you are not clamping on the slot. on little parts  like that i use a small grinding vise to hold the part then hold the small grinding vise in the larger vise.doing that lets you make the set up on the bench  or surface plate  to make sure  it is flat.     jonesie
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 11, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
I'm late to the party this morning but I would have said the same thing...  Don't squeeze the slot while you're cutting it.

Related to this is something I watch.  If a hole has to pass from one side of a slot to the other (e.g., the hole for a clevis pin in a clevis) I drill the hole before cutting the slot.  That way the two arms of the clevis can't be forced together by the pressure of the drill thus producing axially canted holes.

This may not matter if the clevis arms are thick relative to the size of the hole but, whenever possible, I opt for the approach most likely to foil Murphy.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 12, 2012, 12:02:52 AM
Thanks jonesie. Good tip that I'll remember.

Thanks Marv. re: the clevis pin...if I understand correctly, that's exactly what I had to do. There is a hole that passes through the slot, which I drilled before slotting.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 12, 2012, 01:26:08 AM
OH I wish....I have aweful stuff coming out of my EARS!... :hellno:

Pink and convoluted? Experiencing memory loss? You might consider a couple of plugs.
In any case...keep it to yourself.  :Lol:

Good point on the vise closing up. Wonder if it would have helped to slot from the inside.
I did do a trial fit and it went well. Had it not though I could have adjusted the sleeve that will sit in it.

Nahh All that Pink convoluted stuff came out years ago....I think its home to a ground squirral at the moment....which explains the ear effluent..either that  or a dropbar....Tel would know!.....
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 12, 2012, 02:29:21 AM
Bummage!  :cussing:

Got the last maiden support done and thought I'd put it together and see what's up...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/mockup1_zps89875ba3.jpg)

BTW I'm thinking of changing that hex bolt on the right to a knurled one.

Came across two issues...one minor and one I have to think about. I hate thinking about.

Here's the minor...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/mockup3pin_zps0e4a30f4.jpg)

The pin interferes with the sleeve.

Here's the major problem...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/mockup2bad_zps8e905874.jpg)

As you know, the upper part rotates on some hinges. As it rotates backward you can see how that maiden support rotates into the space where the stand fits. (Even if moved to the side it would bang into the bottom bar.) It may be that it doesn't have to rotate that far. But I suspect it's a problem.

Hm...just thought of a possible solution. I can trim up that 1/4" base that the support is sitting on to 1/8. Yeah. That'd work. Cool. I can relax. I'll have a 'stinking hoppie' to celebrate. I always take the opportunity to celebrate. In my life disaster seems to occur every few minutes so I take that in-between moment to celebrate.

I should change my perspective though. Instead of celebrating the passing of one disaster...maybe I'll celebrate the upcoming one. Right! That way I have a celebration no matter what happens! Works for me.



Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 12, 2012, 02:39:43 AM
Ahhh seems a meer pimple on the A$$ of progress!   You'll sort that one out before you finish the stinking hoppes!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 12, 2012, 03:06:55 AM
Looking good Carl, seems to me you have it well in hand. I would change that on bolt to a knurl also.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 12, 2012, 03:13:00 AM
Yep yep. It'll get sorted.

On the plus side (I'm always looking for the bright side of life) I see that my measurements of the assembly are good. The assembly of the left post, flyer arm, bobbin, and whorl came in just where I had hoped. There might be a little more space than needed between the whorl and the right support but that was by design because I wasn't sure about having enough clearance for the assembly to rotate into the right support. Once I verify how much clearance is needed I can modify the length of the spacer part on the whorl.

I'm pretty excited actually. Can't wait for this weekend to start on the stand that holds the assembly up.

Don't think I'll be able to start the crank yet.

As an aside, I was pretty happy and impressed with the drill bits I got. Amazing difference from the cheapo drill set I started with. The new ones were cheap...but still much better than the older ones.

Just saw your post Don while typing this. Thanks. Yeah...it'll be knurled.

On that note...I've done the knurling with...not sure of the name...but it creates the cross hatch pattern. Causes a lot of side pressure that pushes the compound away. Have to be careful and lock things down good. It's not like knurling with the straight cut rollers.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: DaveH on October 12, 2012, 11:32:52 AM
On that note...I've done the knurling with...not sure of the name...but it creates the cross hatch pattern. Causes a lot of side pressure that pushes the compound away. Have to be careful and lock things down good. It's not like knurling with the straight cut rollers.

Perhaps a scissor type knurl might be a better option  :)
 :)
DaveH
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 12, 2012, 02:14:33 PM
BTW I'm thinking of changing that hex bolt on the right to a knurled one.

Either knurl it or cut the height down.  It looks too "beefy" as it is.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 12, 2012, 11:11:24 PM
Thanks rleete. The hex bolt was cut overlong at the time because I just wanted to try some things out. I do plan on replacing that bolt with a knurled one.

Dave...I think what I have is a scissors type. But frankly I'm not sure. Here's a pic of it...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/knurler_zps5b59ae4e.jpg)

One thing I don't like about it are those clips holding the axles of the rollers. The first pair snapped when I tried to get them off. Granted...I didn't use the proper tool. I got what I think is the proper tool but still...the clips bend out of shape. I don't think they'll last long. In my mind, they're not appropriate for a system where you replace the rollers. I'll probably replace the axles at some point with something better to keep them in place. I don't know if I can modify these...whether they are hardened or not.

Here's a pic of the rollers I used. And I think I see what I could have done better. (drat...went to look at the knurler again and one of the clips dropped off).

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/knurlerrollers_zps9dd7b019.jpg)

The left side was away from the headstock. I think that orientation tends to force the carriage in that direction. Had I put the rollers on the other way, the direction would have been towards the headstock and the lathe stop would have been have help.

Ahhh...and the pic shows that clip about to drop off.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 12, 2012, 11:39:57 PM
That is a scissor type knurling tool Carl, I have one just like it and like you have the same problem. I will be replacing the shaft with longer ones and different type snap rings.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 12, 2012, 11:51:27 PM
Wot Don  said....or a nut and jam nut...which might be easier to service but harder to get into a shoulder.

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on October 13, 2012, 03:36:25 AM
My knurler has the nut & bolt fixture and they tend to get in the way at times
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 12:46:16 AM
Thanks for popping in Don, Dave, and Pete.
.....

So was this a good day? Tally shows one disaster, one potential show killer, and lots of parts.

First the parts. Made the maiden stands today along with a bunch of 0-80 bolts and 0-80 pins. Also redid the...the...I don't have a name for it...that hex looking bolt. Well it's not a hex looking bolt anymore (because of rleete's whining  ;D )

The disaster had to to with the stands. I have no excuse. I was really stupid.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/stands_zpsf685a71f.jpg)

You can see the left one has a 'chip' taken out of a corner. I was in the process of setting the end mill when I got interrupted by my soul mate. I hadn't tightened the collet down and thought I'd set the height for the first cut. No excuse. It was really stupid. And it gets worse. As the first cut was made I heard funny noises. Kept going trying to figure it out and then realized the end mill was being pulled down. I should have stopped at the funny noises. I had in fact not tightened the draw bar.

I wish I could blame her...or rather anyone buy myself...but it was me.

Thought of a few options....

1) trim the tops down and insert a spacer at the bottom
2) make a filler...could...though you would see a line that doesn't belong there
3) remake the part
4) do nothing

I opted for #4 (for now). It's not too bad and hard to see. But mainly...this is about seeing if this will even work which is another reference to the next post coming.

Here's a pic of what I have so far...sort of. I need to adjust some bolt lengths.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/proto1_zpsdb1e4540.jpg)

And a side view...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/protoside_zps737069dc.jpg)

And a close up. I finally milled the rod (that you can't see going through the bobbin) with a 'D' end and when I redid the bolt on the right side I did the same. They fit real nice and the assembly seems stiff enough.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/protoclose_zps9fd50342.jpg)

This post is probably coming across as a bit of a 'shucks' but it shouldn't. I got more done today than I'd thought and overall am pretty happy with the results.

Or I will be depending on the outcome of the next post's 'oh crap!'.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 12:59:05 AM
So if you're reading this thread newest to oldest...well then you're starting at the end of the book.  ;D

Don't mean this is the end of the story...just that you're reading backwards.

Went to bed last night thinking about the crank, pedals, and flywheel which are the biggest tasks yet to do.
And then I realized...yes I'll say it..."oh crap!". This project might have the same chance of success as my wife saying.. "Say dear...why don't you go spend some time in your shop?".

Here's the problem...first a C-of-C..

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/problem_zpsc9706408.jpg)

This drawing shows the crank, the control rods, and the pedals. At the bottom of the control rod is a 'double-hinge'.  Obviously, as the crank turns, the control rods will rotate and one-half of the double-hinge takes that into account. Call that the +/- x direction. As the pedals move up and down, the end of the pedals move +/- in the y direction. The other half of the hinge takes that into account.

But when I went to bed I though...hm...doesn't that +/- y try to force the top of the conrod to rotate on the crank along the axis of the crank...not just radially as we expect.. Worse! If the conrod moves in the +/- y direction it could interfere with parts of the crank.

I won't know for sure until I build the thing...but it just seems like I have a fundamental design flaw. Might be okay if there's enough distance between the conrod and the sides of the crank...but don't know yet how I can get that.

Stay tuned for this and future bummage.

And so tentatively I  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 01:01:08 AM
P.S. I'm thinking that bed might go to 3/8 instead of 1/4. But it doesn't affect this experiment. I can do it anytime.

Oh Wow! Wife and kids are making shrimp for me! Bye.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on October 14, 2012, 01:56:08 AM
Zeep' that's turning out to be a pretty slick little device, complicated little bugger to match. I never really thought that spinning wheels were so complex in their make-up, course, they really dumb them down in the cartoons I watched as a young lad.  :Jester:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 02:12:43 PM
Thanks Jim.

Still many parts to go. Mostly the crank, some pedal stuff, and the flywheel.
Have to remake/correct some of the parts and there's lots of finishing/polishing.
It doesn't look great yet...but I can see the potential.

I don't know how much progress I can make over the next couple of months.
I might make a cardboard flywheel and take a pic to give an idea of the final model.

Also thinking about taking a little motor and driving the flyer assembly.

Most importantly...I need to come up with a back-up plan in case it does turn out the control rods interfere with the crank.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on October 14, 2012, 02:44:09 PM
Glad you fixed that formerly hex bolt thingy.  I sleep better now.

And why the heck do you need a "back up plan"?  Cross that bridge when you come to it, and stop worring about it beforehand. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 03:11:37 PM
And why the heck do you need a "back up plan"?

It's in the genes. Can't help myself.

When I walk into a room...I'm looking for another way out.

It's the holes I dig for myself that I have problems with.  ;D

But yeah...I won't until I have a better idea that it's a problem.
Just look at all the unfinished parts! All part of the back up plan.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 14, 2012, 03:48:28 PM
That is turning out very nice Carl. All that procrastination and she is shaping up great. I like the look of it. I would make a spoke flywheel for it or make a wheel from round stock a use an endmill to cut round holds around the inter perimeter.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 14, 2012, 05:13:59 PM
Thanks Don.

The flywheel will be an experiment all to itself. I may change my mind (I'm well past 'second thoughts' now) but the current idea is...

Ring of brass, six aluminum spokes, and an aluminum hub.
Around the inner diameter of the ring are six half-moon shaped indents on both sides.
In that indent will be a u-shaped bit of aluminum with matching half-moon that fits the ring.
Into that bit goes one end of a spoke.
The hub is split and then six holes made along the diameter that the other end of the spokes fit.
The hub is bolted together.
A pin goes through the crankshaft that is captured by the hub.

At some point I'll show drawings.

No idea if this will work. I expect it could be very wobbly.
In any case it will take a long time.

I plan on it being the last part of the model. I figured if I had the rest of the model in place then it would act as inspiration/motivation to finish the flywheel one way or the other. If I did the flywheel first I ran the risk of such discouragement and frustration that I'd give up and go onto other things.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 16, 2012, 12:46:16 PM
Just a text update...

You may recall my failed idea of a 3-piece control rod and instead I made an experimental one piece.
That's allowed me to finalize the dimensions and drawing of it as well as the linkage to the pedal.
One other change is, instead of a yoke on the end of the control rod, the linkage will have a yoke on both ends.

I intend to make them next. That or continue paving the road to hell.

Still thinking on the crank. It's just under 2" long with 3/16" axles. 3 axles, all offset by 1/4" from each other. That is, one control rod connects to an axle that is 1/4" away from the main axle and the other control rod connects to an axle that is 1/2" away from the main axle. Small!

Haven't tried figuring out the machining operations yet. I've considered silver soldering the bits together but I suspect at this scale there's little chance of getting things lined up right.

One last note about how the control rod, link, and pedal works. When pushing on a pedal, it will bottom out at about a horizontal position. The other pedal will then top out at about 1/2" above the horizontal plane. Pedals are about 2 and 2.2 inches long giving angles ~13 to ~14 degrees (depending on which) so the distance change at the end of the pedal is on the order of +/- .003 which is nearly three inches away from the crank. So probably no problem.

But! One of the pedals may be too short by about 0.1. Won't worry about it for now. All of this is within my slop.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mzt on October 16, 2012, 01:43:25 PM
Carl,

if I got it correctly, You will have to push the six spokes with identical force, having the hub well centred into the ring, when bolting the hub.
Or are You going to glue/pin the U shaped bits to the brass ring ?
If the spokes were round, You could have them rotating free into the U bit, and threaded on the hub end, for fine adjustment.

Marcello
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on October 16, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
Zee. I thought of you this weekend during our annual festival. Although it is mainly old engines and tractors, we have had for the past few years a local hand spinning and weaving guild there doing demonstrations and they were right next to where i had some models set up. One of the spinning wheels looked very much like your spinster only done out of wood of course and full size. It was interesting to watch none the less.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 16, 2012, 04:29:19 PM
Thanks Marcello.
I'm hoping the u shaped bits are a close fit into the the indents of the brass ring. And yes the spokes are round.
The original idea was that each end of the spoke had an integral collar.
One end of the spoke fits into the u shaped piece with the collar acting as a stop.
Similar at the hub end with the collar as a stop.
Distance between collars being exactly what is needed to remove any slop.

First possible change to this idea is to make the spoke and u-shaped piece as one instead of two. But I have to think about the machining steps to do that.

Your thought about threading the end into the hub to give more fine adjustment is interesting. I haven't looked yet but I suspect there's not very much space for threads.

I'm thinking/hoping that a little bit of looseness may be okay. The wheel isn't supposed to rotate very fast.
We'll see how it goes. It's all about seeing what works and what doesn't.

Thanks Bill. Yes. When I watch my daughter spinning it's pretty interesting (for a good while anyway and then it becomes like watching paint dry  :Lol: ). But there's more skill to it than one would think. The feel of the fiber (like the feel of our tools), the proper tensioning of the fiber (like the torgue on a bolt), the knowledge of different fibers (like our materials).

On the upside...and maybe I shouldn't say...but it's usually women that spin and that adds to the interest.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dan Rowe on October 16, 2012, 05:00:28 PM
On the upside...and maybe I shouldn't say...but it's usually women that spin

Zee,
I would say that this thread is proof that you can spin a yarn also :Jester:

Dan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on October 16, 2012, 06:24:27 PM
You're doing well on making the small parts Carl and they are looking really good  :ThumbsUp:

I'm not quite getting how you intend to make the flywheel though; those "U" parts have me puzzled...

Looking forward to the connecting rods  :)   - though I must admit there's something niggling at the back of my mind about them.  Do you perhaps have a photo of the original full-sized ones ? - I know less than nothing about spinning wheels...

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 16, 2012, 11:29:49 PM
Thanks Dan. I think.  :Lol:

Arnold...here's some pics of the original.

This shows the top of the control rods (pitman rods):

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/spinning%20wheel/9b226fe1.jpg)

This shows the bottom. They're attached to the pedals with a bit of rubber rod (horrible!).

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/spinning%20wheel/bd1f4033.jpg)

And if anyone is interested, you can paste this link in your browser to look at other pictures of the prototype:

http://photobucket.com/zeespinningwheel
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 16, 2012, 11:40:01 PM
Just so's yous don't just read this post and move on to other threads...the previous post answers Arnold's question about the control (pitman) rods on the original.  :Lol:

This post tries to answer the other question about the u-shaped bits. So here's some drawings of the parts of the flywheel (and one of the crank).

These are preliminary studies. I have to finalize many of the dimensions. I'm also rethinking some concepts...primarily whether the spoke and end u-shaped bit is two parts or one.

This is the spoke. Simple rod with two integral collars that act as stops...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_spoke_zpsfaeb0128.jpg)

The calculations you see have to do with taking into account that the u-shaped bit creates a chord on the inner rim and changes the needed the length of the spoke.

This is the hub. I expect to chamfer the edges. You might note the dashed lines on the inside. That's for the pin that goes through the crankshaft and is captured by the hub so it turns when the crank turns. Duh.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_hub_zps53064ccd.jpg)

The u-shaped bit (it's a yoke really) that goes on one end of the spoke and connects to the ring...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_spokeend_zpsc6ba7dc1.jpg)

The ring showing the indents for the u-shaped bits...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_ring_zps8d86e4c7.jpg)

An assembly drawing of the whole thing...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_flywheel_zps1381b83c.jpg)

And here's the crankshaft. This the drawing I'm working on now. I'm not happy with the 1/8 width of the square bits. Thinking of going to 3/16. But that also means the length of the pedals have to change. Or not. Might be okay. And no problem remaking the pedals. I'm used to do-overs.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_crank_zpsac9dd7ae.jpg)

Hope this was of some interest.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 17, 2012, 12:03:51 AM
Absolutely!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 17, 2012, 01:48:47 AM
So if you saw the drawing of the crank in the previous post...you can see it's small.
The 3 axles are only 3/16D.
Outer axles are 1/4" away from the center axle.
Overall dimensions are 1/4 x 13/16 x 1 3/4.

I'm thinking I can do this with my 4 jaw.

Here's a drawing of the major steps...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/drawing_crank_op_zps0859f665.jpg)

First:

1) Square up some stock to the outer dimensions. So I have a flat plate.
2) Insert and center in the 4-jaw. Hole looks large enough to insert in as far as need.
3) End of axle will have a threaded hole so I can use a live center against it.
4) Turn the major axle.

Second:

1) Flip and hold onto squarish part with 4-jaw again.
2) That end also has a threaded hole and could use a live center to turn the outer axle (probably won't use the live center as the axle is only 3/16 long.

Third:

1) Use mill and mill down the left support to size.
2) Use mill and rough out the center to the middle axles.

Fourth:

1) Back to lathe. Use 4-jaw and hold onto squarish part.
2) Turn the middle axle.

Looks very do-able.
Any pit falls?

I mean aside from the usual "It's Zeep that's doing it"?

I'll have to be very careful in measuring, indicating, and getting the axles positioned right.
Actually not critical distances from axle to axle...but they need to be parallel to each other.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 17, 2012, 02:30:10 AM
Sounds like a plan to me Carl, go far it pal. You have done your homework on this one. I am curious to see what the crank will look like when you complete. The flywheel seems ok, but I would make a split hub and insert the spokes to the wheel. You could also do the opposite and screw the spokes to the hub and split the wheel rim. This makes it a bit more complicated. Now if they are straight spokes just pass them through the wheel rim and loctite them. Just my 2cents.

I just went over your drawing again and your wheel rim is only .200 wide am I reading this correct?
Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 17, 2012, 03:52:52 AM
Thanks Don.
Yeah I'd thought about the idea of inserting the spokes into the wheel. One problem was making the holes in the rim. Not sure how to do that. The inner diameter is just under 2.5". I also thought it would look neater with the contrast of the aluminum and brass. But...that all depends on if I can do it. I'll be making the spokes and u-shaped bits first. If I have too much trouble then I won't put the indents on the rim.

I just went over your drawing again and your wheel rim is only .200 wide am I reading this correct?

Yep. Problem? I'm thinking the inertia shouldn't be too much of a problem because it's a dual pedal...but I have no experience here.

Been giving more thought to how I'm going to machine the crank and get the axles in the right position. I'm thinking that after squaring up the stock of punching some holes in the end where the axles are and using them to indicate into the 4-jaw.

Okay okay. I hear you. Just do it.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 17, 2012, 04:38:03 AM
Carl do you have a RT? If you do you can cut the hole pattern in the parent stock before cutting it to length for the outer rim.

Quote
 I'm thinking the inertia shouldn't be too much of a problem because it's a dual pedal...but I have no experience here.

I don't think you will have any trouble with interia, not enough speed. Unless you are talking about overcoming it from a dead still. That I don't know till you make your crank.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 17, 2012, 12:00:02 PM
Thanks Don.

I'm pretty sure you have to give the flywheel a push to get it started.

If a pedal is full down and the other full up then it's 'locked'. That is, the crank axles are vertically in line and there's no force available to go either way. (There's a term for that...can't remember...topped out? bottomed out? dead something? Haven't finished morning coffee yet.)

Even if the crank was slightly off center and giving nearly full stroke when pushing a pedal down I think you'd have to manually spin the wheel to overcome the forces of the bands on the bobbin and whorl. But we'll see once it's made.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on October 17, 2012, 03:05:51 PM
WoW! Zee', I'm still in awe at the complexity. Pretty neat stuff going on here (I know squat about spinning wheels) and I do enjoy your very clean drawings. Nice :ThumbsUp:  Now, get to it mister ...  :LickLips:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 19, 2012, 05:15:57 PM
Thanks Jim! Trying to get busy.
Taking a couple of days off this weekend. Thought I'd get started on the crank.

Well I got started.

I wasn't sure how to go about this but here goes (suggestions for better approaches most welcome)...

Milled a piece of brass to outer dimensions. (I thought all I had was some 1/4 plate and that meant there was only about 1/32 border on the axles. Went ahead anyway. Then I found some 3/8 bar of the right size. Cool. I'll practice/ruin the 1/4 and then have the right material for the next.)

Then made a dimple on the ends for each axle. Thinking I can use them to center the part in the 4-jaw.

Rather than doing an end axle, I went for the middle thinking I'd have better/more opportunity for holding the thing when doing the other axles.

First roughed out with the mill. Oops. I'd pulled out a 3/16 but somehow picked up a 3/8. You'll see the result in a moment. Changed to 3/16.

Mounted in the 4-jaw and centered it on the axle. Used a dial indicator along with a wiggler. Thought I'd gotten within about 1 thou and felt good. (But I was slightly off. I think the dimple was right but the wiggler may have been jammed in too tight and off center.)

The axle length is only 3/16. No suitable tool to get in there. Considered trying to make one but realized it would end up looking more like a parting tool. So used the parting tool. Took it easy.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank2_zps0fb23d68.jpg)

Kind of satisfied with the job. Tried out the control rod. Poo. Needed to make the axle length a bit longer. I have to remake the control rod anyway so I milled the face down a bit.

A bit tight but it 'fits' and turns. The control rod cap seats too.
Don't look closely at the yoke of the control rod. It's off. As I said, I have to remake the control rod over again...primarily because the length is wrong. But I've also changed from a yoke to...uh...tab?

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank1_zps425124ec.jpg)

Good enough as a trial and learned some things.

Looking for better ways to turn that middle axle. I've seen it done with a parting tool before but not sure it's appropriate. If it is, I'm thinking that having milled the rough out might not have been a good idea. Had trouble with the sides interfering with the parting tool. Thinking that if I'd gone ahead and starting parting from the beginning it would have been better. As I said...advice suggestions are most welcome.

Calling it a successful morning because I can.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 19, 2012, 05:27:10 PM
Looks like a very successful morning :ThumbsUp:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 19, 2012, 05:58:13 PM
Quote
I think the dimple was right but the wiggler may have been jammed in too tight and off center.

Use a center drill to mark the alignment reference.  Unlike a dimple or a center punch, it will leave a hole for the very tip of the probe.

Center drills come in very tiny sizes.  Look for #0 or #00.  (More idiotic nomenclature!) I think my smallest has a 1/32" drill size.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 19, 2012, 07:05:34 PM
Thank you Jo.

Thanks Marv. I did use a center drill to mark. But from your reply it sounds like a hole rather than a dimple would have been better and to let the wiggler spin inside.

However, it wasn't the wiggler that was spinning but the part. I had held the wiggler against the dimple and it could have been (and was) anywhere. And I should have known. I had centered using a dial indicator on the part. Thought it was perfect and then set the indicator against the wiggler. (See how bad this is getting?) Then corrected for the wiggler.

I don't think I needed the wiggler.

Could I have drilled deeper and set the wiggler inside and against the edges of the hole?

Well...now that I have a ruined part...I can use it to try some other approaches with turning an axle and see what works!

Sure is nice to have a day off to ruin parts learn in the shop!  :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dan Rowe on October 19, 2012, 07:26:01 PM
That is a a tough job with a parting bit. Most folks rough out the blank first with a mill as you did. A long blade setting with a interrupted cut with a parting blade is not a fun job.

If you set it in the 4 jaw you could rough it on the mill with the chuck centered on the RT set horizontal. Then you could make the finish cut with parting tool.

I have a spin indexer that I can use any of the chucks on the mill so I would rough it then cut each pin location with the same z setting before I switched to the lathe.

Dan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 19, 2012, 07:48:00 PM
Thanks Dan. Caught your post after I made another attempt.

I know what you mean about interrupted cutting with a long blade! But it's a small part made of brass so I went for it.

Things went much much better this time. Had a little trouble at the end and wondered if the parting tool wasn't square enough. But I got there. 0.005 at a time  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank3_zps875b5e92.jpg)

Used the stop block on the left. Then moved the carriage the needed distance (and a little more this time!) to the right and used my machinist clamp as a stop (with a bit of aluminum underneath to protect the way).

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank4_zps7dbe912b.jpg)

Then just fed a 0.005 at a time and moved back and forth.

I was real happy with the finish on the sides. Towards the end though a bit of a shoulder built up on either end of the axle. But it's small enough I can put some relief on the control rod.

Put the control rod on and it fit snugly and no wobble. Could have used another thou off but I think it'll wear in.

I was still a tad off center though in the 4-jaw. Not sure but I think the end of the dial indicator was loose. Found that after I was done.

Feeling good!  :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 19, 2012, 07:55:42 PM
Looking good Carl glad to see you making progress. I see the crank throws going to be 180 degrees apart.


Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 19, 2012, 10:07:27 PM
Quote
However, it wasn't the wiggler that was spinning but the part. I had held the wiggler against the dimple and it could have been (and was) anywhere. And I should have known. I had centered using a dial indicator on the part. Thought it was perfect and then set the indicator against the wiggler. (See how bad this is getting?) Then corrected for the wiggler.

I don't think I needed the wiggler.

Could I have drilled deeper and set the wiggler inside and against the edges of the hole?

I got a bit lost in your description above so let me describe how I would indicate such a part in the 4jaw.

Drill a small center hole at the point that has to be on axis, i.e., run true.  The hole should be conical, just like the hole one would drill if using a center in the tailstock to support the work.  [Though, of course, the hole needn't be that large.]  The wiggler or pump center goes into this hole and the conical face of the wiggler rests against the conical walls of the center hole you drilled.  The tip of the wiggler, like the tip of a dead center, projects into the hole made by the center drill.  The dial indicator goes against the wiggler/pump center, not against the part.  Then use the 4jaw centering procedure I've described before to get the center drilled hole running true.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 19, 2012, 10:14:56 PM
Thanks Marv!

I am embarrassed to say I was using the wrong wiggler...one of jobbies that initially spin at a great angle and when it comes against an edge will become straight. I'd never used one before. I was using it to see if as the part spun it would run true. Thus my description was complete...you know the term.

I should have thought of your method. I'm so used to using the cylindrical end, I forgot about the conical end. And...it had been a long while since I've done anything other than find the edge.

Thanks!

When I get around to making the crank the again, I'll take pics so others will see the setup.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 19, 2012, 10:52:01 PM
You're welcome.

I'm sure we've all used the wrong wiggler now and again.  {Did you ever consider a second career as the straight man in a comedy act?]
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 19, 2012, 11:19:15 PM
Did you ever consider a second career as the straight man in a comedy act?

I can understand the question. Most straight men seem to come across as somewhat oblivious.  ;D

Don...missed your post. Yes...the crank throws are 180 apart.

Worked on the control rods a bit this afternoon. Gotta get some new end mills. Sheesh what a mess.

Rub a dub dub
End mill made crud
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 19, 2012, 11:39:09 PM
Quote
I can understand the question. Most straight men seem to come across as somewhat oblivious.

Just imagine what Groucho might have retorted had you said, "I was using the wrong wiggler...".

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 20, 2012, 01:05:21 AM
Quote
I can understand the question. Most straight men seem to come across as somewhat oblivious.
Just imagine what Groucho might have retorted had you said, "I was using the wrong wiggler...".

Ah...then I would have made a decent straight man. I had thought it was about this...

it had been a long while since I've done anything other than find the edge.

The edge of oblivion perhaps?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 20, 2012, 01:36:24 AM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 21, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
The nice thing about having a couple of days off...by day 3 I finally start forgetting about work, time, and what day it is. Usually it takes a few 'stinking hoppies' in quick succession to achieve the same result but the downside is I get little done.

Yesterday and today was about control rods, hinges, pins, and buttons...

Speaking of hinges..here is the start of two. Perfect squareness, perfect length, perfectly located holes, perfectly drilled/reamed holes.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/badhinge_zps03012869.jpg)

Perfectly wrong. Went to bed the other night...feeling good...and then the inner me showed up and says 'you idiot...they're supposed to be 90 degrees to each other'.  I make quite a few parts perfectly wrong.

So okay...new hinges. Made a couple of less than perfectly square, located holes, and short hinges. But they will do. Then went to slitting the slot. Two problems...

One...forgot to back up the stock. But got over that with the little vise stop I'd made some time ago...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/stopblockslitsaw_zps0f792bc1.jpg)

Two...I've yet to slit at the right location. One tab is slightly thicker than the other. The slot itself is right. I had four tries to get it right but they all came out the same. I could argue I must be more insane than I give myself credit for. [ i.e. doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results].

But they will do...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/goodhinge_zps24312f7b.jpg)

Made two control rods. They're okay. Not sure about the shape. But right now the goal is to see if this whole thing even works. You'll note I change the end from a yoke to a tab.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/yokes_zpsd82c4c92.jpg)

Made some buttons (out of drill rod) and rounded the edges of the control rods, hinges, and pedals. I was pretty happy with all that. Everything came out better than expected.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/yokeshingepedal_zps2abd9187.jpg)

Next up is to go for the crank again. Aside from a couple of bolts that would leave the flywheel. I have a lot of parts to remake but what I have is sufficient to prove the design.

Really calls for more rounded edges...and some parts to have different dimensions but first step is to see it work


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 21, 2012, 10:53:11 PM
Quote
I make quite a few parts perfectly wrong.

Every post seems to have a gem to add to the quote file.

You might want to try anticipating these sorts of mistakes.  Sharpie mark the workpiece with the required hole locations and mentally check that the marks are correct before committing to moving metal.

Quote
I could argue I must be more insane than I give myself credit for. [ i.e. doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results].


The quote is credited to Einstein.  Obviously, Albert never dealt with a MicroSoft operating system.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 22, 2012, 12:40:46 AM
Keep at it Zee!   Your doing just fine!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 22, 2012, 01:12:33 AM
Keep at it Zee!   Your doing just fine!

Dave


What Dave said

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2012, 07:37:26 AM

Perfectly wrong. Went to bed the other night...feeling good...and then the inner me showed up and says 'you idiot...they're supposed to be 90 degrees to each other'.  I make quite a few parts perfectly wrong.
.......

Made some buttons (out of drill rod) and rounded the edges of the control rods, hinges, and pedals. I was pretty happy with all that. Everything came out better than expected.


........90 degrees :???:, but at least with the slots it meant that you could recover the parts ;)

I make my buttons out of any old bit of steel bar that comes to hand. I started off using drill rod (silver steel) but unless you are going to faf around hardening them I don't see the need. The buttons add to the width of the job, so when the file touches the button it slows the cutting and you should see a file line appear on the buttons. If you want more indication of getting there then use a permanent marker on the outside edges of the buttons :LittleDevil:

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 22, 2012, 12:30:33 PM
Zee - I know how you feel ...!

I did a complete outside insulation job on my house in 2008-9 and the cellar was covered in something that looks like Styrofoam. I made several special cutouts that where perfectly mirrored in one or two planes  :censored:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 22, 2012, 02:08:48 PM
Thank you Marv, Dave, Don, Jo, and Admiral_dk.

Good idea to use the sharpie Marv. It was one of those moments of 'oh...well while I'm here why don't I just do the holes now'.

I've added "why don't I just" to my list of "If you say this you are making a mistake".
Along with "Hm. That's odd" (you can replace 'odd' with 'funny', 'weird', and many others.
Even the benign sounding "Maybe it's..."

Sounds like an interesting thread topic eh? I'm sure it would be lengthy.

I have two lists actually. One for machining and one for my wife. It begins with "Can I do it later?"

Jo...I used drill rod for one set of buttons simply because it was the diameter needed (for one) and I had nothing smaller for the other or not much of it. I had plenty of drill rod in a few diameters. (First time I've used the stuff.)

But you imply you would have hardened drill rod and I recall your comment about not hardening your buttons.  Is that because of the softness of drill rod?

Great idea to mark the buttons.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2012, 03:12:43 PM
 :hellno: I don't harden by filing buttons.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 22, 2012, 03:39:15 PM
Jo...Maybe I misunderstood. I recall you had said you didn't harden filing buttons but you seemed to imply you would if the filing buttons were drill rod. I'm thinking now you had meant to say you wouldn't bother making buttons out of drill rod in the first place. Is that correct?

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2012, 04:19:12 PM
Some people swear by making their buttons out of drill rod and then hardening them. Their argument being that when you get to size the file skates across the hardened button. True, but it takes longer to make a hardened button, than a soft one and personally I do not like rubbing my good files against something that will blunt them :hellno:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 22, 2012, 05:27:33 PM
Thanks Jo. Good points.

I had hardened by first set of buttons, but not these. I just took it slow and did many feel-ups.

Got a few marks on the buttons but they were easy to make and easily replaceable.
I was quite happy with my result.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 22, 2012, 08:55:03 PM
Quote
I just took it slow and did many feel-ups.

The setups just keep coming, don't they?  :Jester:   :stir:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 22, 2012, 09:21:01 PM
Quote
I just took it slow and did many feel-ups.

The setups just keep coming, don't they?  :Jester:   :stir:

Well you called it Marv. I guess I AM a straight man. I should be more careful I suppose but then I wouldn't be zeep.

But you remind of some posts on another thread and the word 'chuff'.

I have an Aussie working either side of me and a number of Brits close by that I also work with.
It's always interesting to hear their 'local' language and there's several occasions where we talk about it.
I remember one woman who was confused when I said I was visiting 'the folks'. It took her a minute to realize I was referring to my parents.
We also have a few Swiss a couple of pods down from me. But they're little fun when it comes to language. Other than when they try to use our local language. They've got the right appropriate time (usually) but it usually sounds silly...wrong emphasis on syllables and a heavy French accent doesn't seem to work well.

Back to 'chuff'. When I first heard it I was aghast, thinking surely they hadn't said such a thing in mixed company. My thought was it reminded me of what some 'guys' say when they get excited...using a term related to that brown stuff nobody here seems to like to work with.

Well I was half right. The speaker was excited...and nearly as much as those other 'guys'.

Now...back to that crank. Got it squared up and drilled some reference holes. Now for the lathe...
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on October 22, 2012, 09:31:41 PM

Back to 'chuff'. When I first heard it I was aghast, thinking surely they hadn't said such a thing in mixed company. My thought was it reminded me of what some 'guys' say when they get excited..

Chuff (UK): The sound a steam engine makes as it lets off its exhaust. or (just checked my Webster's .. :o it does not translate) to be flattered.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 22, 2012, 09:57:42 PM
Meant to say 'chuffed'. In which case (Merriam-Webster) it becomes 'British - quite pleased or delighted'.
Interestingly, the origin is English 'chuff'.

Also found a reference for local slang from the urbandictionary. But that is most inappropriate.

Have had two interruptions now while trying to work on the crank (phone calls). I'm a little less chuffed.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tel on October 22, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
Quote
Have had two interruptions now while trying to work on the crank (phone calls). I'm a little less chuffed.

Were they crank calls?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 12:10:06 AM
You too Tel?

This forum is full of jokesters ain't it?  :Lol:

A very enjoyable place.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on October 23, 2012, 02:17:16 AM
Don't get cranky Carl :LittleAngel: Just think the next day you can crank up your lathe and get back to it :ROFL:
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 03:51:05 AM
Argh!  :facepalm:

It just doesn't stop.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 04:22:57 AM
Time to put an end to the crank jokes (he said)...

Almost done with the crank. Still need to tap two holes (they're already drilled) and to figure out what to do about the third. More about that in a moment...

Made a few (several) mistakes along the way...but it turned out okay. (yeah yeah...it 'turned' out okay).

First mistake was doing the short end axle first. I should have done the middle one. But I was concerned about turning the middle first and having just a 3/16 rod holding the end while I turned that. I suppose it would have helped to superglue a spacer in the middle while turning the end...but oh well.

Here's a pic I promised Marv showing how I set up the center finder...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crankdialsetup_zps823e11a8.jpg)

I apologize for not taking pictures during the operation. I really wanted to get this done before returning to work tomorrow.

So here it is...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank_zps0591135c.jpg)

See that little hole to the left of the middle axle? It's not supposed to be there. But I'd drilled my reference hole a little too deep so I decided to just run it through as a little detail. That's fine except I gave a little bevel to it and I'm not sure I can reach the hole on the other side to do the same. Not a problem though. It's very difficult to see both ends of a hole at the same time. (Unless you're inside the hole. Then you can. Believe me.)

Simple turning of the short outer axle. Used a new parting tool for the middle. Then simple turning of the long axle. Interrupted cuts were not bad at all. Probably because it's brass and I didn't take cuts bigger than .005 to 0.010.

You might also notice the left support is just a tad wider than the right one. It's supposed to be. It must be because that's how I made it.

Here's the assembly so far...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crankassembled_zpsc275b304.jpg)

And a closeup...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crankassembledcloseup_zps33679083.jpg)

I'll be making a round bolt to go on the far end of the crank to hold the control rod in. Also one for the flywheel side although it's not strictly needed as the hub will be captured by the bearings. (Made the crank a tad too short too but I can fix that with the bolt by making it a shoulder bolt with a tad undersized diameter. Also deliberate. Had to be since I made it that way.)

I was pretty worried about doing the crank. Feeling fairly 'chuffed' right now.  ;D

Several parts to remake (but that will wait) and several bolts and pins to make (that can't wait) and then it's time for the flywheel.

That may be a while. I've been informed I have some booked weekends coming up. And a furnace to be installed which means my shop will be invaded. And I need to do some shop cleaning and, most important!, tramming the mill.

First up will be the spokes. I want to see if I can make them a one-piece instead of two. And the ends have to be rounded. I don't think I can use buttons so I'll have to come up with another way. The length will be longer than needed because I can trim to length once the hub and rim is done.

And now for my celebratory  :DrinkPint:
Drat! It's past my bedtime. Drat drat drat.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Captain Jerry on October 23, 2012, 04:40:24 AM
Zee

When I first saw that crank picture, I forgot that it is a double throw.  I thought it was supposed to be a single throw crank and I laughed my A$$ off.  I thought that you had gotten the final crank joke laugh.

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/crank_zps0591135c.jpg

When I remembered how it works, I was still impressed but not as amused.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on October 23, 2012, 05:10:07 AM
Wow, looks great Carl

I tune out for a while and you go and make a heap of progress! Perhaps I should tune out more often  :cartwheel:

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on October 23, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
Nice Job Carl!   Cranks are never easy!....Congrats!

 :cheers: :cheers:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on October 23, 2012, 11:26:35 AM
The crank looks great Zee...as does the whole assembly so far. Quite a unique little model, but then we knew it would be even from the beginning!!  The flywheel (or whatever it's called on a spinning wheel) will be the icing on the cake.

Bil

Edit: Can't help but notice you seem to be out of M&M's lately :)  Those pennies don't taste nearly as good  :LickLips:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 12:27:02 PM
Jerry, Steve, Dave, and Bill...thanks for your comments and looking in.

It was a good couple of days off from work.

Bill...you might be thinking about Dean. Although I did use M&Ms a couple of times a long time time ago. Including an enlarged photo of one to fake the scale.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on October 23, 2012, 12:34:40 PM
yeah I know Dean does...who was it had the plastic one with the arms and legs?  I thought that was you.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: jonesie on October 23, 2012, 03:30:52 PM
zee it looks like your making good progress and the crank looks good, the more you do the easier it gets.keep up the good work   jonesie
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on October 23, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
The assembly sure looks nice.  I like the crank, too.  Looks like it turned out real good.

Chuck
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on October 23, 2012, 05:00:06 PM
Carl,

Very nicely done indeed.  It's really looking like a "mechanism" now.  It's gained that mechanical complexity that turns little pieces of metal into something that draws the viewer in and intrigues.

Thanks for the picture showing your alignment setup.  I have only one nuance to mention...

For that to work correctly it's important that the DI be aligned with the mid-line of the workpiece.  With the standard, as-delivered tip on the DI achieving that can be a fiddly, time-consuming job.  Replace the as-delivered tip with a tip with a largish flat face.  That way, the DI can be plopped down without much thought and the tip will naturally touch the cylinder of the edge finder at the mid-line. 

DI point kits are available cheaply from the usual suspects, e.g.,

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=605-4538&PMPXNO=943849&PARTPG=INLMK3

or you can make your own.  Actually, I find it worthwhile having the required tap and die around so that I can make specialty points and extension rods as and when I need them.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 06:10:58 PM
Bill...you're right. I do have a little plastic M&M with arms and legs. I don't use him anymore because it doesn't really show scale (and he's the orange scary one).

jonesie and Chuck...thanks for looking in.

Marv. Thanks.

It's gained that mechanical complexity that turns little pieces of metal into something that draws the viewer in and intrigues.

I admit that was one of the reasons I put off doing the more interesting parts. But the bigger reason was having done, or doing, the less interesting bits would give me more motivation to make the flywheel and more complicated bits. I will surely fail the first time and run the risk of dropping the project if I get too frustrated. Now I have to make it work.

Thanks for the suggestion on the DI.

I assume the problem in doing it the way I did was the chance/probability of the DI moving slightly up or down. If it stays solid, it shouldn't matter if I'm above/below center line. The flat face tip removes this possibility.

I do have some different tips for the DI, including ones with flat faces. Came as a set in a cheap plastic box when I bought some thing or other (probably a DI). Speaking of which, there are several that look identical except for length. Length might change 1/8. Some look identical...don't know if they're spares or what. I'd forgotten I had them and when I'd first gotten them I didn't know to what purpose they would be used. Having gained a little experience now I can see several uses...some for checking hole depth of tiny holes, some with a conical end (I guess for working against a small surface or taking relative readings against a small hole).
Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on October 23, 2012, 06:33:58 PM
Another Well Done from me as well Carl  :praise2:

I like the way you made the links from the pedals to the conrods - I was wondering about that bit.  As mentioned earlier, I do have some reservations about this though...  The pivoting motion of the pedals will try and move the conrods axially as well, and you've done such a fine job of making closely fitting parts, there might be some interference issues  :headscratch:

And a belated Thank You for the photos you posted earlier at my request - together with those and your last assembly shots, it's becoming clear now!

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on October 23, 2012, 09:30:38 PM
Nice work Carl, :praise2: :praise2: An interesting and challenging model
Oh and the patter is brilliant :Lol:
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 23, 2012, 11:28:23 PM
Thanks Arnold and Frazer.

and you've done such a fine job of making closely fitting parts,

 :hellno: What gave you THAT idea!?  :Lol: Well we'll see.

Yes, I'm concerned about possible interference too. A bit of pseudo-code:

   if (interference happens)
      trash it
   else
      celebrate
   if (trashed)
      retrieve from trash
      think of some way to fix it
      fix it
      if (fixed)
         celebrate
      else
         assert (celebrate)
   else
      celebrate

I can't lose.

And! The code can obviously be optimized which will result in...a celebration :DrinkPint:
And! There's a bug in the code. Which means I'll be called upon to fix it and...celebrate :DrinkPint:

Yeah I know. I can skip all that work and just... Celebrate! But there's no fun in that.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on October 24, 2012, 12:38:33 AM

 A bit of pseudo-code:

   if (interference happens)
      trash it
   else
      celebrate
   if (trashed)
      retrieve from trash
      think of some way to fix it
      fix it
      if (fixed)
         celebrate
      else
         assert (celebrate)
   else
      celebrate

I can't lose.

And! The code can obviously be optimized which will result in...a celebration :DrinkPint:
And! There's a bug in the code. Which means I'll be called upon to fix it and...celebrate :DrinkPint:

Yeah I know. I can skip all that work and just... Celebrate! But there's no fun in that.

Looks like it could be a loop or sub-routine; just keep repeating until done.   :Lol:   Just don't celebrate to the point of being unable to follow the code.   

Maybe;

  if (drunk)
     goto bed

  else
      continue loop

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 24, 2012, 12:48:38 AM
Yea Carl, you been sneaking these photos in on me I am just catching up. Great job on the crank it is really starting to look the part now. Nice all the way around.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 24, 2012, 12:51:00 AM
Maybe;

  if (drunk)
     goto bed

  else
      continue loop

Hm...looks recursively deadly which means it has a terminating condition and therefore does not represent an infinite loop.

I would prefer a simpler infinite loop...

   label:celebrate
      celebrate
      goto label:celebrate

Gasp! I used a 'goto'. Not allowed in my world. I will resort to 'C':

   for (;;)
      celebrate

or better...

   while (TRUE)
      celebrate

or best...

   why the heck am I coding...I should be celebrating.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on October 24, 2012, 01:50:27 AM
Looks like you had one of the programming code bliss there Carl. Old habits die hard.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 24, 2012, 03:17:52 AM
Old habits die hard.

Which drives my family nuts...yet they appreciate my consistency.

On another note...

I do worry about the possibility of interference with the control rods and crank as the pedals go up and down.
But after playing with it...a bigger problem may be interference of the bolts on the hinges and the pedal next to them.

Well..I can separate the pedals quite a bit more to solve that.

But the pedals may be subject to some side-to-side (rotational) movement because of the single strap that holds them to the bar they sit on. I can either make the strap wider or make two straps. First I'll see how much of an issue it is.

Still feeling pretty positive.

If anything, when I'm done, I'll put a little 'Do not touch' sign on it.  ;D
It'll be a static display...but it'll look good.

Like me...as I said...I'm consistent.  :Lol:


For Marv..."I'm consistent until I change my mind."
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on October 24, 2012, 08:28:09 AM

   if (interference happens)
      trash it
   else
      celebrate
   if (trashed)
      retrieve from trash
      think of some way to fix it
      fix it
      if (fixed)
         celebrate
      else
         assert (celebrate)
   else
      celebrate

I can't lose.

And! The code can obviously be optimized which will result in...a celebration :DrinkPint:
And! There's a bug in the code. Which means I'll be called upon to fix it and...celebrate :DrinkPint:

Yeah I know. I can skip all that work and just... Celebrate! But there's no fun in that.

Reads to me like an Algorithmic Excuse  :atcomputer:

Still you are doing great work and soon you'll be spinning a different kind of yarn.  :embarassed:

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mzt on October 24, 2012, 10:16:10 AM
Quote
See that little hole to the left of the middle axle? It's not supposed to be there. But I'd drilled my reference hole a little too deep so I decided to just run it through as a little detail. That's fine except I gave a little bevel to it and I'm not sure I can reach the hole on the other side to do the same.

Turning a piece of drill rod to a 90deg pointed end, than filing half of it to make a taper D-bit would work?
Marcello
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on October 24, 2012, 11:59:12 AM
Thanks Bob.  ;D

Thanks Marcello. Yeah A D-bit would work too. As it turns out I can just reach it with a center drill.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 01, 2012, 11:29:22 PM
A cheap shot at keeping this thread going... ;D

As has been mentioned by myself and others...there's some concern about those hinges and control rods having some interference. So I did a bit of calculation...

The pedal end moves up and down a 1/4" (1/2" total). The distance from center of hinge to pedal pivot point is about 1.93". The change in X (if you will) as the pedal goes up and down is on the order of:

1.93 ( 1- cos(arcsin(0.25/1.93))) or about 0.0164-ish

Not looking at the effect of the hinge...the center to center of the control rod is 2.25. Let's say we want to know how much the control rod moves say about 1/2" inch away from the pivot end.

1/2(sin(arctan(0.0164/2.25))) or about 0.0036-ish.

I'm thinking this is good enough to not worry about at this time.

Another area of potential interference is the hinge to hinge as the crank turns. So long as the pedals are about a 1/4" apart or more...no problem. They don't come close.

You all should have stopped at the first sentence.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 02, 2012, 02:12:56 AM
A slightly more expensive cheap shot...

Made a new bobbin for the spinning wheel tonight...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/brassbobbin_zps399c5b81.jpg)

Made it from brass this time thinking it would provide better contrast.
Then I realized it would be rotating on a brass rod.
That could result in a...wait for it...galling situation.  :Lol:

Well I doubt it. No heat. No high speed. Will rarely be used.
Still...a better approach I'm thinking is to make the whorl of brass and keep the bobbin aluminum.
One or the other needs to be different.

Just redoing some parts until I have a sufficient block of time (and gumption) to tackle the flywheel.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on November 02, 2012, 03:44:20 AM
One of the reasons I am working on a large engine is I got tired of making parts I could barely handle and see.  :old:  That bobbin would make me nuts.  :insane:  Looks great with the close up.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on November 02, 2012, 07:56:45 AM
I like the brass Zee!    If your worried about gaulling...make the shaft from steel.....and get the picker looked at.....

signed..


Your Mom
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 02, 2012, 10:55:27 AM
Thanks Rick and Dave.

I finally got the guts to retrieve my good camera from T so the close-up came out much better.
Yeah you already know me. It wasn't guts. It was the usual blubbering that got it.

I've been avoiding steel on the model. Primarily because I didn't want to deal with rust issues although I know the aluminum and brass will have their own issues.

The one part that probably should be steel (instead of aluminum) is the pivot bar the pedals sit on. It's only about 1/8" round. I intend to put a support in between the pedals. We'll see if it's strong enough.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: NickG on November 02, 2012, 11:44:32 AM
brass on brass will be much better than brass on aluminium I would have thought. Pistons and cylinders are often both made from brass.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on November 02, 2012, 02:20:53 PM
Carl,

A few pages back you wrote "I'll be making a round bolt to go on the far end of the crank to hold the control rod in.".  Can you explain this?  I often use round bolts, in fact I have never successfully made other kinds, although I do have some hex shaped dies.  Those dies refuse to make hex shaped bolts though.  Can you help, or am I helpless?

Lee    :thinking:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 02, 2012, 04:25:23 PM
brass on brass will be much better than brass on aluminium I would have thought. Pistons and cylinders are often both made from brass.

Nick...I don't know enough myself. I have seen brass pistons and cylinders. I'd welcome any other thoughts on this.

Lee...I may be using the wrong term. But here's the idea. A large head bolt that screws in the end of the crank. The head is large enough to keep the control rod captured. But I have a couple of concerns. The first is easy...if the crank length turns out too small then the bolt will look more like a shoulder bolt. Threads, followed by a short shoulder with a diameter close to but under the diameter of the crank diameter followed by the cap. If the crank is too long...I'll just shorten it.

The 2nd concern may be more problematic. I don't know if the bolt could unscrew itself. I'd rather not loctite/superglue it in but I suspect it will be tight enough. Should only be a problem if the control rod is pushing to unscrew. Which I think it will or can. I think it'll be okay.

I have one aesthetic concern about it too. I'd rather not slot the bolt. Not sure why and may end up doing it anyway. First go is probably a knurl but I don't want the cap too thick.

Hope that explains it...if not, I'll provide a drawing when I get round to making it (the drawing that is).
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on November 02, 2012, 04:36:57 PM
Quote
I'd rather not loctite/superglue it in but I suspect it will be tight enough.

Your local Home Depot or such will have the blue Loctite (242 if memory serves but it often doesn't) which will lock threads but can be undone with ordinary hand tools.  Every home should have a tube of this and a tube for the shop is a good idea too.

I've done plenty of brass on brass devices.  Keep it well-oiled and you shouldn't have a problem.  The same can definitely NOT be said for aluminum on aluminum.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 02, 2012, 11:28:42 PM
Thanks Marv. That's good news about brass on brass. What I had wanted anyway was two bobbins - one of aluminum and one of brass - just as part of the 'kit'.

I may not have said...probably because I may never get around to it...the base will be some cheap 5x7 frame. Instead of a 'picture' I've got some basswood to cut in strips and make a miniature wood floor. The spinning wheel would be mounted on that with the spare bobbin on the floor.

In fact, if this works (he said) I hope to put a couple of posts with two of those thread bobbins you use in the well of a sewing machine to feed the spinning wheel. Only problem is, I need a way to provide friction or variable resistance to the thread as they get spun on the bobbin.

Like I said...I may never get around to it. That dynamo and boiler are starting to rattle on the shelf. Maybe I'll break down and do two, two projects at one time.

I need to take an inventory of my shop. Haven't in a long time and I think I have some of that type of loctite (I think it's an HF knockoff though).

Oh yeah...regarding earlier post about the bolt. I could also make it hex. Might try that too just to see how it looks.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bezalel on November 03, 2012, 12:09:50 AM
Hi Zee


To get the right thread tension for the bobbin you shouldn't need anything more than a simple belaying pin. one or two wraps of the thread around the pin should do it, I would imagine.  If that's not enough, just keep adding turns until it does.  Just don't let the later turns lay over the top of early ones, that will create too much friction.


I'm enjoying the thread, just bin observing from the back of the room.


 keen to see how go with the rest.


Thanks


Bez



Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 03, 2012, 12:52:23 AM
Cool idea Bez. Thanks very much. If that works it would be an elegant solution.
I was thinking of bits of leather with a tensioning spring and/or screw but wasn't too thrilled with what it would look like. The only thing I don't know is whether the tension has to be continuously adjusted (much like the fingers of a spinner). In that case...it'll just have to be my fingers. By that time the ole index should be mended.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on November 03, 2012, 11:36:33 AM
Note to self:

When joking about making a hex bolt (where the threaded part is a hex) use more smileys to indicate the humorous intention!

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 03, 2012, 01:21:21 PM
Ah sorry Lee.

The first time I read your previous post I thought there was some tool or process I wasn't aware of. (Should have asked but now I'm glad I didn't. I would've really looked the dunce then.  :Lol:)

It was a good joke! I missed it because my brain was stuck on the cap being round (or hex or knurled) and not thinking about threads being other than round. (Here's where some one is going to jump in with an example of a non-round thread.  ;D )
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on November 03, 2012, 03:24:01 PM
Hi Carl been following along still and Looking for more progress but I have one think to say  :pics:

Other then that great work so far.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on November 03, 2012, 03:36:30 PM
Quote
I may not have said...probably because I may never get around to it...the base will be some cheap 5x7 frame. Instead of a 'picture' I've got some basswood to cut in strips and make a miniature wood floor.

Cutting your own miniature floor boards can get tedious.  Consider an old model ship builder's trick that I used to create the deck under my model deck gun...

People who make heirloom furniture out of plywood like to hide the edges where the plys show.  Stores like Rockler and others sell coils of adhesive-backed wood veneer to apply over these edges.  It's a doodle to lay these on a piece of backing wood to create a very authentic looking board floor.

To further enhance the effect on my deck gun I colored the edge of each strip with a marker before I applied it to the backboard.  This makes the joins stand out and gives the appearance in my case of the tar-soaked lignum used to water proof deck boards on real ships.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on November 03, 2012, 04:51:53 PM
If you have to do wood... I can recommend coffee stirrers :naughty:, they look very nice reused on models.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on November 03, 2012, 07:06:01 PM
You can use black paper between each plank  :Lol: gives a good finish but very fiddly
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 03, 2012, 08:44:58 PM
Hey Don...I got some pictures on another thread.  ;D But only related to this thread in that it happened as a result of my work on this thread.

Marv...might be tedious. Your hint about the joints is a good one. My intent was to sand the merest bevel, paint, and then wash with something darker to bring out the joint. It's been a while since I did this kind of thing though.

Jo...the only coffee stirrers I see around here are plastic round things. Could use popsicle sticks but slicing up a strip of basswood is pretty simple.

Frazer...right. Very fiddly.

If I keep to scale the planks would be somewhere around 1/2" to 1" wide and staggered. Even thought about simulating wood plugs for the old style flooring (if the scaled size is nearer 1" but won't...that would certainly take a jig to get them right and still wouldn't look good).
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on November 03, 2012, 10:02:54 PM
Quote
If I keep to scale the planks would be somewhere around 1/2" to 1" wide and staggered.

Those are the widths (along with 3/4") of the veneer tape I've mentioned.

Quote
Jo...the only coffee stirrers I see around here are plastic round things. Could use popsicle sticks but slicing up a strip of basswood is pretty simple.

Think Starbucks!  Or craft supply places like Michaels and JoAnn's sell bags of these sticks for crafters who make truly hideous, glitter covered things with them.

Quote
Even thought about simulating wood plugs for the old style flooring (if the scaled size is nearer 1" but won't...that would certainly take a jig to get them right and still wouldn't look good).

A small hole punch applied lightly to create a circular indentation might simulate a plug well enough to fool the eye at these scales.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 03, 2012, 11:01:35 PM
Think Starbucks!

A small hole punch applied lightly to create a circular indentation might simulate a plug well enough to fool the eye at these scales.

Since I wouldn't feel comfortable walking out with a hand full...it would mean many trips. I don't drink the stuff. Here's another clue to my uncultured ways...I drink instant coffee. At least at home. Several cups until that magic hour when my thumb comes into better use. (Read my blister thread if you don't understand.)  :Lol:

It also supports my desire to avoid confrontation and unpleasant work. No issues over the last cup. No worries if it's too strong or too weak for others. Don't have to help with guests. "Me make the coffee? Sorry. Don't know how." I can boil water though.

Indenting the holes and filling with a dark wash is a great idea. It would be an easy jig to make. Not sure if the wood I have has short enough fibers. But I may try that. Nah. I know what'll happen. If I do this at all...it'll look more like Pergo.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on November 04, 2012, 05:43:50 PM
Shocked oh com on boiling water on coffee next you will say you prefer T
cheers
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 04, 2012, 11:40:53 PM
Shocked oh com on boiling water on coffee next you will say you prefer T

Uh no. Preferring T is always the first thing I say (even if a look at Jo's shop is a possibility).
But my morning instant coffee is certainly second.
Without that I'm a non-starter.

Maybe I'm lazy a minimalist at heart.
I have a hot water butler.
So the morning is cup, spoonful of instant, dash of sugar, and add hot water...then time to read the forum.
I'd dropped the splash of milk long ago because that's a second trip to the fridge.
Evening is jelly jar, crushed ice from the fridge, and vodka. And if T remembered to buy them...3 cocktail onions and some juice. I'd pass the onions because of the work involved but I do love them (nyah to you Marv).

Arnold ain't got nothing on me.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on November 05, 2012, 12:13:23 AM
Decaffeinated coffee is kind of like kissing your sister.  Around here the Mexicans say "Nescafe no es cafe".

I drink real coffee (Starbucks brewed at home) and lots of it.  I know I've had enough of it when I can thread a sewing machine while it's running.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on November 05, 2012, 12:43:29 AM
Decaffeinated coffee is kind of like kissing your sister.  Around here the Mexicans say "Nescafe no es cafe".

I drink real coffee (Starbucks brewed at home) and lots of it.  I know I've had enough of it when I can thread a sewing machine while it's running.


I want video!...
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 05, 2012, 02:30:40 AM
Decaffeinated coffee is kind of like kissing your sister.

Who said anything about decaf?! That's just mud. Just flavored water.
And when did you kiss my sister!!!
And what's wrong with my sister!!!
It's a good thing we're a couple of thousand miles apart.
I'd have a lot to say about what's wrong with my sister.
A lot!
I need some new emoticons...fuming, wronged, agreeable.

P.S. You haven't seen my sister. Don't go by my pic. I think I was a stray. So they try to tell me.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on November 05, 2012, 03:41:45 AM
The 1st home grown, live US song I ever heard was in the Yacht Club Bay City Michigan.

Woe is me, shame and sorrow in the Family,

Ya Daddy's not ya Daddy but ya Daddy don't know.


Those two lines have been stuck in my head for almost 50 years.

Talk about Bob's Glossary of Useless Knowledge

Hope that makes you feel better Zee  :stir:

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on November 05, 2012, 05:40:45 AM
Zee,
Regarding:
In fact, if this works (he said) I hope to put a couple of posts with two of those thread bobbins you use in the well of a sewing machine to feed the spinning wheel. Only problem is, I need a way to provide friction or variable resistance to the thread as they get spun on the bobbin.
My sewing machine uses a flat plate against the thread in the bobbin to allow it to disengage when full. You could try something similar for tension using a piece of spring bronze (phosphor bronze?) against the thread.
The machine's other tensioner is more complex: The thread rides between a pair of spring loaded convex washers mounted on a post. That would allow you to more easily switch the bobbins if desired since they would be free on their pins.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on November 05, 2012, 05:50:26 AM
Think Starbucks!

A small hole punch applied lightly to create a circular indentation might simulate a plug well enough to fool the eye at these scales.

Indenting the holes and filling with a dark wash is a great idea. It would be an easy jig to make. Not sure if the wood I have has short enough fibers. But I may try that. Nah. I know what'll happen. If I do this at all...it'll look more like Pergo.
Rather than a punch, use brass hobby shop tubing. it can be cut to a reasonable length, held in the drill chuck, and a bevel filed on the bottom. You can then gently drill the indentation without crushing the wood. In fact, at fast enough speed you can probably burn the circle into the wood this way. It would take some experimentation to get it right but should work.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 05, 2012, 11:42:21 AM
Talk about Bob's Glossary of Useless Knowledge

Pamphlet or tome?
Mine's more like a flyer cause the pages keep dropping out.

Thanks Alan. Some good ideas. You made me think of another when you mentioned spinning fast enough to burn that might be a bit quicker for me. A simple jig and a wood burner or soldering iron with modified tip.

No progress this weekend. Had to be at the office. Looks like that may be the order of the day for while.
I did manage another bobbin. This time out of aluminum but I wasn't too happy with the result.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on November 05, 2012, 12:29:49 PM
 ;) Soldering iron with modified tip would get my vote; you might have to make a jig to make nice consistent markings.

Quote
Arnold ain't got nothing on me.  (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/Lol.gif)
I'll let that one ride - at least when it comes to coffee  :LittleDevil: 
I'm with Marv on the coffee - REAL coffee and plenty of it; it's easy enough to brew up a fresh cup in the pot when needed. Very strong with a bit of sugar and no milk...  Milk destroys the subtle taste  ;).  And a dark-chocolate coated cookie like the Germans from Munich likes it...
And did I mention freshly brewed coffee ? - Not the mud that's been sitting on the hotplate for half an hour like happens so often in cafes...
Can you tell I'm particular about my coffee yet ?

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on November 05, 2012, 02:27:57 PM
Poke/burn some small holes or divots to simulate nails.  I'd do it by hand to introduce the slight non-uniformity you'd see on a real floor.  If you wash the whole thing with dark stain or thinned black paint, it will bring out the grain and fill in the "nail" holes.  You don't need it to be painfully obvious, just the suggestion that it's not a solid chunk of wood glued down.


Edit: as far as coffee, if you can't stand the spoon straight up in the cup, it's too weak. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 05, 2012, 05:13:01 PM
I need to rename this thread to 'The Spinster and a Cup of Joe'.

If I were by myself...brewing a pot would be the way to go. Saves having to spoon out the instant and stir.
When I want coffee...I want it now.
But I'm not by myself...so I can't make the coffee the way I want it. It must satisfy the palates of those around me. And in satisfying those palates...there is less, if any, for me.

I will drink it hot.
I will drink it thick.
I will drink it any way I can.
I will drink it burned.
I will drink it old.
Without my coffee I am not who I am.

Now I need to go to the store and find some Lebkuchen. Thanks Arnold.

Nice idea rleete. I may do some experimenting.

Or "The Spinster and a Group of Opinionated Farts"  :Lol:
Nah...no sense stating the obvious.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on November 05, 2012, 06:52:31 PM
My fault,I only asked about the coffee :lolb:
Make mine espresso roast and Italian Lavazza
Starbucks ??????
Nice job on the Spinster :ThumbsUp:
kind regards
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 12, 2012, 11:44:47 PM
Been working everyday for the last couple of weeks...no let up in sight...except!!!....

Got a couple of days coming up because we're having our furnace replaced.
Furnace is in the basement.
Shop is in the basement.
I'll be in the shop.
I could work on the itty-bits (bolts, pedal straps,...) but I don't want to waste this opportunity with the family being out of the house.

Might just be flywheel time.

So a question...

As you all will no doubt recall  ;D the flywheel is an assembly of ring, spokes, and hub.
The ring is 3.6" OD and 2.5" ID. My drawing shows 0.2 width but it doesn't have to be.
In fact...I have 1/4" brass plate and will just skim it, keeping as much width as possible.

Keep in mind I have a mini-lathe with a supposed 7" swing (3.5" center to bed).

What do you think of this approach?

1) Put the plate on the RT with some spacing underneath.
2) Drill then bore the ID.
3) Mount the ring on the lathe using a 3-jaw on the inner.
4) Face each side.
5) Turn the OD.
6) Groove the OD.

I've got a couple of problems with this:

1) I'll need to put a spacer behind the plate on the lathe. Should be okay. But I have to make sure when I flip it that it's true. (Thinking about Bogs' nudger as a help.) Not too worried if the ID isn't perfectly square to the side.

2) Will have to put the ring back on the RT so I can mill the indents along the ID to hold the spokes. There the question is how to ensure the ring is centered? Would it be a matter of centering the RT, then moving the ring around until the ID indicates center...then clamp?

I can trial this with some aluminum plate. Got plenty of that (at least 4 or 5 tries) before I use the brass.

Or do you think the whole thing can be done on the RT? Even the outer groove?

After these two days it won't be until Christmas time that I have enough time for this job.
I may just wait. I really don't want to do this under stress.
I've got enough of that right now and this is supposed to be relaxing.

I should probably wait. Even though the family is out...no doubt I'll get interruptions from the furnace people.
Craptitude.

Well the question still stands.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on November 13, 2012, 12:25:45 AM
Can you mill the indents on the ID just after drilling and boring the ID while it is still on the RT?  Why are you using a RT for the drilling and boring the ID?

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 13, 2012, 01:30:38 AM
Thanks Lee.

I could mill the indents afterwards but the width of the ring hasn't been defined yet. I'd really need to skim both sides to size.

I was thinking of using the RT to drill and bore the ID because I don't think the mini-lathe can hold the ring to do it there. Unless I go to a backplate. I've never done that before.

As a side note...the question I've been waiting for people to ask is how I would ensure the indents on both sides of the ring are in the same place. Not sure. One thought was to machine the indents on one side...then drill through two of them and set a pin in the sacrificial plate underneath. Then when I flip it on the RT...use the pins to locate the ring and I can do the indents on the other side. That's the thought anyway.

One thing I like about machining is the puzzles it presents to do a job. That's the best part of the kind of stuff I do at work. It's all about solving puzzles. But like most things...the puzzles are rarely unique and other people have solutions.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on November 13, 2012, 01:15:43 PM
One thing I like about machining is the puzzles it presents to do a job. That's the best part of the kind of stuff I do at work. It's all about solving puzzles. But like most things...the puzzles are rarely unique and other people have solutions.

I like doing the problem solving also and get plenty of it at work.   I have always worked at jobs that require a lot of diagnostic and troubleshooting skill.  That is except for a stretch when I was in management.   Then I had to undergo the lobotomy and logic disconnect that companies require to be a manager.   :ROFL:  You are right,  machining presents plenty of puzzles to solve.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 15, 2012, 10:41:02 PM
Was home today for the furnace install but didn't get as machining in as I'd hoped.
Most of the time was spent trying to answer "how the heck am I going to do this?".
I could not come up with a way to do it on the mini-lathe. Chuck is just too small.
Not sure about using a faceplate (I've never used one - probably should take the opportunity.)
In any case...this is what I came up with...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringjig_zpsbd87e65f.jpg)

This will mount on the RT. The two short bolts attach to the...to the...thingies that ride in the slot of the RT.
Once mounted I'll mill two shallow slots to hold some low height parallel bars.
Mount the work piece on top of the parallels using the two inner bolts.
Hm...maybe wide slots so I can move the parallels around and keep them close to the area of cutting.
Hopefully that will reduce bowing but I intend to take light cuts throughout.
That will allow me to skim the top of the plate around where the ring is going to be.
Then flip and do the same.
That should get me parallel faces on the ring.
Then use the outer bolts to clamp the work piece down.
Then mill/bore the ID. (Never have used the boring head either.)
Mill the indents and drill a pin on two of them.
Flip and use the pins to locate the ring and mill the indents on the other side.
Then I can go to the lathe and use the ID to hold the ring while I turn the OD and groove.
Why are you still reading this? Wait for the pics.  :ROFL:

Hm. Jo's made me hungry.
With warning I can have dinner at her place.
There will be plenty of warning.
Just putting this in here to record it.  ;D
And I already know she likes wine.

Reminds me though of the time I was in the UK on business. Took a long walk and found an out of the way local pub. Probably the best chicken dinner I've ever had. (Next to T's of course.)

Still reading this? Tsk tsk.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on November 16, 2012, 07:44:15 AM
Hm. Jo's made me hungry....Reminds me though of the time I was in the UK on business. Took a long walk and found an out of the way local pub. ....

Still reading this? Tsk tsk. ;)

Pub grub in the UK has improved no end over the last decade or so.  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: doubletop on November 16, 2012, 07:46:31 AM
Carl

You need a copy of John's "how to make a flywheel" you may need to adapt the approach to your equipment's capability but you'll get the idea.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=871.0 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=871.0)

The pictures are missing but I've got a .pdf version and I'm not sure if I copied it from  the link above or there's a copy available elsewhere

No doubt he'll be watching and let you know

EDIT - Carl; Many ways of skinning cats - check your email

Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 12:49:23 PM
Thanks Pete. Got your emails and have responded. Nice articles!
Very much appreciated.

Pub grub in the UK has improved no end over the last decade or so.

Oh no you don't Jo. I know the difference between home-cooked and going out.  :Lol:
BTW If it helps any...I'm the house dishwasher (it's how I pay for my meals).

On another note...every time I went to the UK I never missed going to a curry house.
There's a couple around here and while they are 'good' they're not 'English' and only serve to remind of better.

I've been going to Queretaro Mexico about every 6 weeks for business.
Imagine my surprise and delight to find an authentic English curry house downtown!
Buddies at work didn't know about it. Now they go with me every visit...and sometimes without me.

And no Jo. You needn't suggest a curry house either. Unless you plan on having twice dinner in one day.
Then I'm in.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 02:30:21 PM
So far so good. I hope I haven't jinxed myself...

When last we left our newbie...I'd said I would have a go with aluminum as a trial.
I'm glad I did. It was disaster. Tried a hole saw and soon learned that would not work for me.
Wrong kind of hole saw I'm sure. It was meant for wood.

So I decided on something different and went for the brass...
 :paranoia:

The blank...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringblank_zpseba7f11d.jpg)

Mounted on the RT. So far things don't have to be centered. Just near enough...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringpreface_zps0a545d25.jpg)

Milled the face, flipped, and milled the other side...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringfaced_zps8a9fdd38.jpg)

Then clamped it down. Still don't need to be exactly centered...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringmounted_zps4d5b6c73.jpg)

Then chain drilled with a 9/32...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringchained_zpse31867b7.jpg)

Then used a 1/4" end mill to get the center out...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringchainedmilled_zps7b10b63b.jpg)

And kept going for a nice ID...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringid_zps2b7ad43a.jpg)

Not to size yet. The finish so far looks pretty good.

Would boring to size give better? I'm thinking it's not needed.

In any case...at this point the part needs to remain centered.
Yeah I know it's not. The end mill is off to the side.
But I set my dials and marked the axes with grease pencil.
I should have to just account for backlash.

To bad it's just 9:30 in the morning...else  :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 03:58:27 PM
Still going well. Something's going to bite...soon.

Here's the ring with the ID to size. I just stayed with the end-mill. Quite happy about it.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringtoid_zpsacbbcd9b.jpg)

Then a bit of thinking...a bit more coffee...and then did the indents on one side.
All the while hoping I had gotten the RT back to center.
Ran to one edge with the edge finder. Located the 1/4" end-mill 1/8 into the part and then milled down 1/32.
Back to center, rotated 60 degrees, back to touch ring and then in 1/8". Repeated until done.
Thankfully, each time I came to touch I was within 2 thou of my dial.
Very good for me!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringoneside_zps63ab351a.jpg)

And now for the real problem. How to flip it, keep it centered, and get the indents at the same place.
I'm thinking there were some things I could have done in preparation to make this easier.

But oh well.

So the idea is to drill through two opposing indents with a small hole into the support below. Then insert two pins. Then flip the part onto the pins. I'll probably be off...but should be close enough. Can't help but think there's better ways though.

Okay jinx...now's your chance.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 04:10:08 PM
Hindsight. I love hindsight. I just wish I had foresight.
Most of us have hindsight. Fewer have foresight.
Fewer still...nosight.

What I should have done...

Make a little jig. A bit of bar with the ends rounded to 1/4". Length to match one indent to the other. Hole in the center to match to center of RT. Then I could have used that to flip the ring to center and know where the indents are.

Hm. Could still do it even though I'd have to break down what I have so far.

Okay. That's the backup plan. No harm trying the pins. Won't see the holes anyway.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 05:22:29 PM
Are you ready for some cheese?
Well I have a cheesy shot coming up...

In going for the pins I realized that with a 1/2" gap between the part and the support, the pins would go every which way. So I stuck a bar in, shimmed it, and clamped it...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/cheese_zpscaa1c605.jpg)

Then drilled two holes and inserted some 1/16 drill bits as pins.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringpinned_zps15cbc0f4.jpg)

Flipped it. Initial measurement showed I was good. Milled the indents...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/indents_zpsc7866a0d.jpg)

Should have done more measurements. Half of them look right on. The other half seem to be off a bit from their cousin. Ah well...

We'll go for it.

Ready to turn the OD and put a groove in. Alas, the furnace guys are cleaning up...I must return to work.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 16, 2012, 05:48:17 PM
Turned the OD.
Was very happy there was no discernible wobble.
Just need to do the groove and the flywheel will be done.
Unless those indents are too far off.
He said.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringturned_zps3f1b5cf1.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on November 16, 2012, 10:00:41 PM
Looking good Zee  :praise2:

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on November 16, 2012, 11:56:16 PM
Great job so far Carl, it's starting to look like a wheel.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on November 17, 2012, 01:39:07 AM
Go Zee!  Go Zee!  Go Zee! who who!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bogstandard on November 17, 2012, 05:58:38 AM
Pete,

Quote
You need a copy of John's "how to make a flywheel" you may need to adapt the approach to your equipment's capability but you'll get the idea.

I will have a look next week on getting that post resurrected onto here, just in case someone else has a need of it.

If there are any posts that I have done elsewhere that someone would like to see again, with all the pictures intact, then you only have to send me the link by email, PM or mention on here, then I can get the post abridged and fitted up with all the original pictures for all to see.

John
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 17, 2012, 12:53:52 PM
Thanks Bob, Don, and Dave.
John, I'm sure others will be interested in that thread. Good info in it.

Grooved the OD last night and cleaned things up a bit.
Had some trouble making the groove because of the size and not sure if it's deep enough. But it looks okay.
I'll provide a pic once it's a bit more cleaned up.

Some indents are fairly off. Ring should be remade but it's workable for now.
I need to see if this works at all before spending too much time making it perfect.
Can't see both sides at the same time anyway and I'll put the boogered indents on the far side.

Not sure why the indents are off. Looking at the holes I made for the pins...they aren't well centered. Could have been bad eye-sight and I was off. Looked fine when I drilled them. But since they're off then when I flipped the part it wouldn't have remained a perfect mirror image. I think the jig would have been better.

Earlier post talked about milling the indents...going to center...rotating...and then made to ring edge for the next indent. Don't have to go to center. Just back off a bit then rotate and come in.

Another weekend of work.  :'(
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on November 17, 2012, 03:15:17 PM
Interesting flywheel. I have not made one like that.   I like your workaround for having a small lathe.  A face plate really is a good addition to your tools.  You can mount some really odd shapes on it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 17, 2012, 04:12:12 PM
Thanks Rick.

I do have a faceplate although I've never used it. Aside from learning...my biggest concern was the travel of the cross slide and being able to cut the ring. I lucked out in turning the OD by setting the tool post 90 degree and using an indexing insert. But the groove was difficult. Might have been able to grind some kind of tool to do the groove but it would have had to be at 90 degree to the shank.

Lots to learn!

The challenge now is getting the ring to run true. Initial thought is to make the spokes 'perfectly' the same length and then turn the hub down until they fit. I'm expecting lots of trial fitting and fiddling.

Most important...I haven't thrown my hands in the air and surrendered yet.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on November 17, 2012, 07:21:51 PM
I always enjoyed making a cutting tool for a specific job.  Have plenty of them around now to pick from.

You are way ahead of me on this one.  I have not yet made a flywheel from pieces.   All of mine were just turned on a lathe.

I don't suspect you will give up.  More likely to adapt and overcome.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 17, 2012, 09:28:28 PM
Cleaned up the ring a bit. More sanding/polishing to do. Here it is...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/ringfinished_zpsa7c447fb.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on November 17, 2012, 10:19:22 PM
That's looking good Carl your almost there bud.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on November 26, 2012, 09:39:28 PM
Wow, I sure missed a lot of stuff.  Looking good, Carl!

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 28, 2012, 04:48:22 AM
Thanks Don.

Dean! It sure is good to see you again.

If all goes well I'll be off work for the last 2 to 3 weeks of the year. I sure hope to get this running.
Unfortunately the family knows of my plans and are making their own plans for me.
I will have to spend some time planning their plans to fit my plans so that my plan goes according to plan.
Something like that.
I suddenly got a craving for toast.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on November 28, 2012, 06:24:38 AM

I will have to spend some time planning their plans to fit my plans so that my plan goes according to plan.


You mean I need to:

Plan a plan
Which plans why the plan I planned
Didn't plan out
The way I planned it.  :insane:

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on November 28, 2012, 06:51:36 AM
Good stuff Carl, I like the planning plans plan - well I just like plans

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on November 28, 2012, 10:52:37 PM
I was getting better, but now my head hurts!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on November 28, 2012, 11:18:33 PM
Yo Dean!   Good seein ya bud!
 :cheers:
Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 28, 2012, 11:32:14 PM
I was getting better, but now my head hurts!   :Lol:

Suffering Spinsteritis? I hope not. Although it's given me plenty of headaches.
And a bum finger that still hasn't fully healed.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 29, 2012, 11:02:54 PM
Made the blanks for the spokes. Not much to see. Just some rectangular parts.
I need six. Made eight.
All the same length so I can make up some jigs.
One jig to round an end.
One jig to slot the end.
A small assembly line.
Haven't figured out whether to round then slot or slot then round.
Then use the four jaw for turning. I'm thinking I can center one part in the four jaw, mark two jaws as fixed and then be able to swap out parts using just the other two jaws without having to recenter (har har).
I'll have pics of the rounding operation.

The blanks are overly long so they can be held in the chuck and then parted to length.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/spoke_blanks_zpsb3c74906.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mzt on November 30, 2012, 07:06:07 AM
Carl,
I have not a clear idea about the final look of the spokes.

That said...
You can probably make a third jig, to be centred in the 4jaws, where the slotted end of the spokes would fit,
either held in place by screw, washers and nut (it the slots are going to be drilled for a pin) or clamped between by two stripes of metal.
Put a center on the opposite end of the spokes, and use the TS for support while turning.
Marcello

[edit]
"Rounding"
Filing buttons ?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 30, 2012, 11:58:59 AM
Thanks Marcello.

Maybe this poor drawing will help...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/spoke_drawing_zps025b97f7.jpg)

The 'spoke' part is not very long. On the order of half an inch or so. 1/8 diameter.
The u-shaped end that fits the ring is 1/4" wide, 1/8" radius. The slot is 0.23 less 1/16 (each tab is 1/32 thick).
Between the 'spoke' and the u-shaped end is an integral collar for detail.
At the end of the 'spoke' is a smaller diameter pin that fits into the hub.
(The hub is two parts and sandwiches the spokes.)

The diameter of the spoke is not critical so I think turning it without a live center should be okay.

I'm starting with rectangular blank.
1st jig is to hold it on the rotary table and round the end.
2nd jig is to hold it upright in vise and mill the slot.
Alternatively, use the 1st jig and use a saw to make the slot. But that may be more fiddly.
3rd step is to mount in 4-jaw and turn the 'spoke'.

I can round all six then slot all six then turn all six.

I'm thinking/hoping that the jigs will reduce the amount of measurements needed and improve my chance of all 6 being made the same.

Thought about starting with round stock but a collet would be necessary for the milling operations. Which is fine but there'd be no 'assembly line' advantage...each part handled/measured individually.

The critical measurement is from the bottom of the slot (that fits against the ring) to the end of the 'spoke' (not including the pin). That length has to be exactly the same for all spokes.

Now that I'm thinking about it...I may go ahead and try using round stock and see just how identical I can make the spokes. Hm. It would certainly make turning easier. But each part would have to be milled, rounded, and slotted while in the collet before starting the next part and I worry that the depth of each slot wouldn't be the same.

Hm. Now that I'm waking up a bit more...I'd probably get the depth of each slot pretty accurate. My problem is going to be getting the width of the slot accurate and centered. I've always had problems with the slitting saw.

Hm. Waking up a bit more. If I leave the milled and rounded part in the collet, I can mill the slot rather than saw it. I'm usually better at that.

Hm. Now that I realize I haven't had enough coffee yet I'm wondering how to get the collet on the RT for the rounding operation. Has to be in the collet else I won't be able to line up the slot properly.

Sorry to be rambling on. Going to get more coffee before I put everyone to sleep.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on November 30, 2012, 12:48:40 PM
Zee,

Did you think of making the square ends separately and attaching them to a piece of round stock? It might save some time ;).

I would have held a piece of the appropriate shaped material, for the ends, in a vice, then taken out the slot. Rounded the end with a filing button (supergluing in place  8) ). Cut off over length, put in a four jaw and drill for the spindle, then made separate spindles and inserted them in the hole drilled in the end :D.

It is of course horses for courses, there is always one more way of doing things than there are model engineers advising you on how to do something :Jester:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on November 30, 2012, 02:59:56 PM
I have sometimes run into problems in this situation if I slot first and then round over, depending on the rounding method.  The problem is chattering because with some setups/rounding methods the metal on both sides of the slot is not solidly supported.

That will probably read as gibberish. 

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 30, 2012, 05:39:43 PM
Thanks Jo and Lee.

Jo...yes, the original design had a separate end. And that might still be a better way to go. I went to the single piece because I thought working with a part that is only 1/4 by 1/4 by something a tad less than 1/4 would be difficult to manage.

I could use the blanks to make the ends. Round, slot, drill for the spoke, and then part off. But not sure what I gain. If the parent material is long enough...then why not just turn it for the spoke?

I suppose having a separate spoke and end would result in a more accurate spoke to end interface. That's another of my big worries in doing it as a single piece. Although accuracy is not that important except for looks.

Well...I got metal and time. I can try one way and move to another if it doesn't work out.

I got blanks.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on November 30, 2012, 06:53:59 PM
How are you attaching the slotted end to the rim?

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on November 30, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
Hope and prayer?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 30, 2012, 10:04:35 PM
How are you attaching the slotted end to the rim?

No real attachment. The slotted end fits into the indents I made along the inner diameter.

Hope and prayer?

The foundation of all my plans.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: V 45 on December 02, 2012, 04:20:40 PM
Wow Zee !! You had mentioned my parts being small !! If so yours are very TINY !! Looking good !!
Are the spokes going to be pinned to the flywheel?
 
  Again very cool project... :cheers:
     Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 02, 2012, 05:59:12 PM
Thanks Dave.

No, won't be pinned. Just fitted onto the indents of the ring.
The other end of spokes will fit into a hole drilled along the diameter of the hub.
The hub will be in two halves and will sandwich the spokes.
The hub will also sandwich the pin that goes through the crankshaft.

I suspect things will be wobbly. We'll see. It's an interesting experiment though.

I'm troubled that some of the indents are not aligned to their brethren on the other side.
Not sure whether to file away at the tab to fit...or make the indent wider.
I'll probably file away and see how it goes.

Less than two weeks to go to vacation. I hope to have quality time in the shop to finish this then.
I really want to start the dynamo over the holidays.

But there seems to be at least 1 or 2 additions to the job jar everyday.
Fix phone line, fix door, move furniture, clean this, clean that...sigh.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on December 03, 2012, 03:08:44 AM
Hi Carl, looking good bud, the flywheel is nothing that you can't handle. I am on vacation here watching you. Get her done bud. How about more photos.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 04, 2012, 12:12:42 AM
Help me Jo!

A few posts back you mentioned supergluing some filing buttons onto the part and then filing it round.
I've got the buttons...
Gluing one on would be a snap...but how to align the other to it? Or were you thinking one button on one side?

(Either way...I'd better wait for vacation...I suspect I could be going to work with my fingers glued together along with some parts stuck to them.)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 04, 2012, 07:04:52 AM
If the end of the rod is square and to length (i.e. it ends on the dia of the curve) then it is simply a job of making two identical buttons and glueing them on either side. You may also want to make yourself a third to go tight in the slot, don't worry about gluing that on in place, it is there to prevent you from crushing the slot ;) . If the slot is too short you may find yourself needing to file a small flat on it.

Superglue on your fingers is horrible stuff, it looks like you have't washed your fingers however much you scrub at it.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 04, 2012, 11:46:08 AM
Thanks Jo.

Still not sure how I get the buttons to be in line with each other.
That is, if one is a few thou to one side and the other is a few thou to the other side.
I think a third hand will be helpful.
Hm. A simple jig. A bit of wax paper.
I'll give it a try.

BTW. I was planning on doing the rounding and then milling the slot.
The part would be stood up in a vise and I'd touch off the outer diameter for reference to get the right slot depth.
Problem with that might be finding the very top of the diameter to touch from.

Hm. Thinking of the above jig...it may be better to mill the slot and then round.
I'll go for that.

As for a third button...no. The slot's depth is on the order of half of the diameter. The button (if round) would have to be about 1/8 diameter. Too small for me.

Well...if this doesn't work, I can go to the RT and make more learnings there.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on December 04, 2012, 04:35:31 PM
Acetone will remove cyano glues nicely.  Keep a small vial handy when gluing.  Getting the container open with two fingers glued together can be trying.  DAMHIKT.

Women's nail polish remover used to contain acetone.  I don't know if it still does.  You can buy acetone by the pint at the big box stores.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mzt on December 05, 2012, 07:03:11 AM
Quote
BTW. I was planning on doing the rounding and then milling the slot.
The part would be stood up in a vise and I'd touch off the outer diameter for reference to get the right slot depth.
Problem with that might be finding the very top of the diameter to touch from.

Carl,

a flat ruler gently pushed on the top of the wp by a pointed rod held into the mill spindle will be horizontal when the spindle will be aligned with the top diameter.
Marcello
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 05, 2012, 10:37:55 AM
Thanks Marv. My company moved recently and now I have to drive right past one of those stores every day. Very convenient!

Thanks Marcello. I use that trick when centering a cutter in the lathe. I hadn't thought about applying the same idea elsewhere. Nice.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on December 05, 2012, 04:43:14 PM
Zee,
BTW. I was planning on doing the rounding and then milling the slot.
The part would be stood up in a vise and I'd touch off the outer diameter for reference to get the right slot depth.
Problem with that might be finding the very top of the diameter to touch from.
You have room after STARTING the slot. You can make an initial light pass or two first, then measure the depth and use that measurement to adjust the depth of cut. Remember to debur the starting slot before measuring. Also, you might want to make a quick plunger depth gauge. A simple one would be a piece of round stock, faced on both ends and with a hole down the middle. A piece of drill rod down the hole will let you check the depth. Mark I eyeball should be good enough to insure that the gauge body is horizontal. If you make the gauge with a clamping screw in the side you probably should put a small brass pellet undet the screw to avoid scratching the drill rod. I would use small drill rod, perhaps 1/16", rather than a heavier rod with a point.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 16, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
Today I managed to justify (to her) my shop.

The under-counter mixer shelf (spring-loaded, pulls out and latches) had dropped a support bar.
The hinge was a simple press fit and had fallen out. A weak point in this contraption.
Couldn't press it back in...it just fell out again.
So drilled the hinge, threaded it, and bolted it on. Beauty.   :cheers:

Showed it off and got a flat voiced simple 'good' from her.  :cartwheel:
This was great. My fear was "That's all it took? Why didn't you do this weeks ago?"

Got the rest of the year off but for the last couple of days I've been hitting the 'complaint jar'.
Well she's been great. I had ignored no idea busy no excuse how many little jobs needed doing. Couple of doors. Some cabinets. Lamp. New towel rods. I'm maybe halfway done.

I can't believe she's let me get away with it all.
I guess I still have it.
Life insurance.  :Lol:

A few more jobs and back on the Spinster.
Thanks for the tip Alan.


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on December 16, 2012, 10:23:25 PM
It is always good to keep the honey do list short.   Keeping up with projects around the house is like putting money in the bank;  it keeps you from getting the overdraft notice!   :hammerbash:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 01:05:26 AM
Keeping up with projects around the house is like putting money in the bank

Keeps me desirable. I have little else to offer but good conversation.

Okay...on to some real garbage...it's been 3 weeks since you people have been off the hook. I finally got some hogging hacking hammering machining in today.

When last we left our hero newbie, he'd made some blanks for the spokes. Here they are ready to be slotted.

Warning! What follows is not necessarily good practice. It was the best I came up with.

Sitting on a parallel with another parallel pushing against a leather strip. The The C clamp is prevent the end ones from tilting as I mill the slot.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/blankstoslot_zps1e318f77.jpg)

The intent was to mill down the center and then take a bit of the inner sides off. I don't know how I was off but it didn't go down the center. I was fortunate though in that one side (tab) was fine so I only had to shave off a bit from the other side. Here they are...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/blanksslotted_zps374fbbb4.jpg)


Then it was time for rounding. I didn't have to superglue the buttons. My machinist clamp did the job. The buttons were hardened which I think was a good thing as there was a lot of filing and the file just skated off the button. They came out decent.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/blanksrounded_zpsebeccaf0.jpg)

Naturally nothing fitted. A bit of filing got me pretty close though.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/blankinring_zpsfebedeba.jpg)

The marks are to keep track of which spoke fit where since I can't manage the same cut twice.

The next step is to turn each spoke. (That's why they are overly long.)

Still not sure this is a good idea. I think it's workable (by someone else, anyone else) but I just haven't achieve good enough accuracy.

In case anyone is wondering...what I expect will happen is that I'll turn each spoke to the same length as best I can. Still, they will differ a little because of the ill fit at the slot. When I make the hub,  I'll mount it in the 4-jaw and get the rim running true before drilling the hole for the shaft. I'd rather have the hub wobble.

To be honest...I'm a bit discouraged. It's not turning out as nice as I'd like. Not nearly good enough to warrant a nice display. Still, I do intend to finish this to the point of at least seeing if it'll run.

It's still a nifty idea in my mind and I see a lot of potential for cooler designs.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on December 19, 2012, 01:50:04 AM
Oh! finally some progress Carl, and it seems to be taking shape. Are you going to round the spokes? It should be a interesting wheel though. I have not completed my drawing on the spinster yet, to many other irons in the fire. I did get the book and a set of prints for a full size one. Maybe I can shrink it. Anyway great work Carl.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: V 45 on December 19, 2012, 01:55:29 AM
Hi Carl,
 Did you use the leather to keep them in line? Were they not the same width? Looking all the same !! Glad you got back to it...more than I can say for the moment.
Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 02:48:54 AM
Thanks Don. Yes the spokes will be rounded. And the end will be turned a smaller diameter to fit into the split hub. On that note...I realized the hub would be better out of brass. It would give more contrast to both the spokes and the bed. Has to be under an inch diameter then cause that's all I have.

Thanks Dave. Yes they're the same width, or rather, are supposed to be. Even so, I thought using the leather would be a help. Maybe not. The C-clamp was probably enough.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on December 19, 2012, 04:54:22 AM

Keeps me desirable. I have little else to offer but good conversation.



That and a great set of ................legs.  *ahem* so I've heard that is.  :shrug:


I'm enjoying your journeys here Zee, it seems that you have been successful in your work arounds so far. Keep the faith, you will be spinning straw into golden thread shortly  :ThumbsUp:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 19, 2012, 07:29:07 AM

Keeps me desirable. I have little else to offer but good conversation.



That and a great set of ................legs.  *

  :hellno: Oh dear it is too early in the morning for thoughts like that.

Zee: Any chance of a drawing of your spokes? I am trying to get my head around the challenge and how big they are.  ;)

They seem fairly thin so I am assuming that are you going to provide them with tailstock support. If so have you thought about how you are going to achieve this? I would guess your rotating/fixed centre is going to be a little too thick to fit into that slot you have just machined.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 11:05:53 AM
Thanks Jim and Jo.

Keeps me desirable. I have little else to offer but good conversation.
That and a great set of ................legs.  *
:hellno: Oh dear it is too early in the morning for thoughts like that.

Allow me to add to Jo's discomfort...

That reputation started when I was a runner-up in the 'Miss Snowflake Contest' years ago...even though they were covered with the sheer material of my belly dancer outfit.

Too early in the morning?

Zee: Any chance of a drawing of your spokes? I am trying to get my head around the challenge and how big they are.  ;)

They seem fairly thin so I am assuming that are you going to provide them with tailstock support. If so have you thought about how you are going to achieve this? I would guess your rotating/fixed centre is going to be a little too thick to fit into that slot you have just machined.

There's a drawing in reply 453 but I'll insert it here and save you all a trod..

They are not very long. ID of ring is 2.5 and hub will be about 1". That leaves 0.75 part of which is the square tab. So the spoke is turned to 1/8 for about 5/8 length.

I'd known that using a center wouldn't be possible unless I did slots and rounding last. I couldn't figure out how to do that at the time. (I have some thoughts now...possibly turn and then put into 1/8 collet for slotting.)

High accuracy of turning isn't required. They just need to look as alike as possible.
I figured with aluminum and the short length I could get away with letting the part hang out there.

If it doesn't work I can try stepping the turning. I've got two spare spokes should they be needed.

Drawing not to scale...
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/spoke_drawing_zps025b97f7.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 19, 2012, 12:00:03 PM
Allow me to add to Jo's discomfort...

That reputation started when I was a runner-up in the 'Miss Snowflake Contest' years ago...even though they were covered with the sheer material of my belly dancer outfit.

Too early in the morning?


 :o That thought may just have done wonders for my diet over Xmas.

Zee, Looking at that sketch I think you should try for tail stock support. All you need is a piece of bar thin enough to fit in the slot with a suitably turned point on the end, held in a drill chuck and a small centre drill hole hidden in the centre of the fork. 

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 12:23:06 PM
Thanks Jo. Neat idea.
Effectively a dead center then?
I've not used a dead center before. Always live ones.
Any concern about rotating metal on metal?
I suspect the part held by the chuck would be better as steel? Since it would be less than .175 diameter.
I have a small enough center drill to fit.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 12:37:18 PM
I think that if I were to do this again I wouldn't have made the tabs so deep.
I made the indents a half circle 1/8 radius. Might have been better as a smaller chord...say 1/3 of a 1/4" circle.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on December 19, 2012, 03:58:20 PM
Looking good Zee. ( the spokes, not your legs)  I finally got the picture of how this all works out.   Cool design.  Way more work than I have ever put into a flywheel.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Thanks Rick.

I must admit to not having a whole lot of confidence but it's still too early to tell. If the wheel goes wobbly...I will too.

Did some verification of the hub. The two halves are held together by two bolts. Originally thought I'd use brass 0-80 hex. But they have to be recessed and the counterbore is too large for the radius of the hub I want. The bolt has to go between two of the spoke ends.

I wanted the hub to be as small as possible (or at least to scale) to minimize the wobble that is sure to be in it.

But it looks like the hub will have to be closer to 1" diameter and the bolts will be 4-40 socket head caps. They'll be on the back side so not as noticeable.

On the upside, the ends of the spokes that fit into the hub will be about 1/16 and that means one can go through center, through the crank. Or have two opposing ones meet each other in the middle.

Won't be able to get much chamfer on the hub.

Calculations show the spoke itself (not counting the smaller end or the tab) is about 0.625. Not very long and I had intended to let it hang out of the chuck and turn it.

But Jo got me thinking and given that the end of the spoke is 1/16 diameter, the spoke may fly off if I turn to that. Not even sure if a center would help.

Another approach may be to make the end of the spoke separate. Drill a hole and insert a 1/16 rod.

Hm. That could solve or improve a couple of other problems. I can make a split collar to hold the spoke in the chuck for drilling. That would mean the end of the spoke is 'flat'. Maybe I can fiddle (sand) with the end of the spokes and get the hub more concentric.

Should consider milling a flat on the hub for each spoke.

You're right Rick. This is a lot of work.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on December 19, 2012, 08:35:01 PM
I'm finally starting to understand this wheel.  Boy, am I surprised at that!
;)

Go Zee, go!

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 19, 2012, 08:47:19 PM
Hiya Dean! Glad you popped in.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tel on December 19, 2012, 10:01:34 PM
Quote
Any concern about rotating metal on metal?

Lubricate it! Neat STP is good!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on December 20, 2012, 08:24:47 PM
Neat STP is good!
Bourbon is better.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 20, 2012, 10:08:22 PM
STP? Bourbon? I only know of STP as a fuel additive (and was told strictly verboten when I had my Beetle). As for Bourbon, I know it as a different fuel additive  ;D (and was told strictly verboten until I reached the 2nd level of stupid in life), an antiseptic, or a town in Indiana.

Turned the spokes. I didn't listen to any of you. ;D (I suggest others do not do as I do.)

I put one in the 4-jaw and marked two of the four jaws with a bit of tape to remember them.
Then turned the spoke by stepping towards the chuck to keep as much thickness as I could.

Then did each one the same by loosening the marked jaws, putting the new part in, tightening up, and verifying with dial that the part was in the same place as the last one. I was generally within a couple thou which was good enough.

You need not point out my inability to count. I have plenty of parts that remind me of that.  ;D

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/flywheelwithspokes_zpsabcdbba3.jpg)

I should start a poll. Will this work? Will it not? Personally I suspect an interesting shape will come out of all this albeit less interesting than a true and running flywheel.  :Lol:


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 20, 2012, 10:33:47 PM
Got a question...

When it comes to the hub my approach is going to be (as of 5:25 PM today)...

All done in the 4-jaw:

1) Drill, thread, counter sink, and counter bore for the bolts that go in to the side and hold the halves together.
2) Saw one half off then bolt the thing together.
3) Using RT in vertical, drill the holes for the spokes along the split
4) Back in lathe, turn to size while trying to fit spokes and rim (oh har har)
5) Chamfer
6) Get the rim running true (hence the 4-jaw) then drill ream for the crank.
7) Part off (chamfering the other side of hub before finishing

On step 2...I would be sawing a rod of 1" brass. Any thoughts on that? I thought about drilling a hole (smaller than the final hole) and using the RT while cutting so I'd only be cutting through half. But if that hole isn't true to the final hole I'm not sure I'll get the final hole drilled/reamed properly.

Thanks.

And some of you need to quit your snickering.  :Lol:

P.S. The spokes are obviously not done yet. I haven't worked the ends.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mzt on December 21, 2012, 08:48:54 AM
Carl,

make Yourself sure the radial holes in the hub do not go to the central bore, so You will have the means of inserting some bits of metal of carefully selected thickness below the spokes, to have the hub carefully centred in the rim.
Through radial holes could be tapped to have portions of threaded bar set at the required position to gain the same result, but why work more.
Definitely, a wheel design I will copy.

Marcello
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 21, 2012, 11:31:54 AM
Thanks Marcello. Those are a couple of interesting ideas. The hub may be a little small though and having a split hub may make it difficult as well. Gives me something to think about.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 25, 2012, 06:18:16 PM
Got the flywheel put together.
Not great but things worked out a whole lot better than I was expecting.
Still, a couple of concerns I hope to mention later in the post.

I'm very much winging this and have no idea as to best practice. Certainly there are better ways.

I mounted the hub in the 4-jaw, trued it and then went to the mill.
No head height so I clamped the thing on a couple of parallels.
Drilled, tapped, and countersunk for the 4-40s.
Major concern here. As it turned out, I only managed a couple of threads to hold onto but it seems to be enough for this.
Then drilled a hole in the center. You'll see why in a moment.
A concern here as well. Later I have to drill and ream for the crank. I fear that hole is going to cause the drill  to go off. You'll see why later.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/hubdrilled1_zps3596437a.jpg)

I then mounted on the RT to saw the cap. Hence the reason for the center hole. The saw blade isn't wide enough to reach across 1". I just wound the saw in a bit then rotated the part to cut. Repeated until the cap came off. It was pretty clean.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/hubsawed2_zpsbcedd272.jpg)

Put the cap on, went to the lathe and turned the hub. Then set the RT vertically and trued it up.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/hubvertical3_zps0e573db1.jpg)

Then milled the spoke holes every 60 degrees. I also drilled 1/16 in one and through the opposing hole. This is for the pin that will capture the crank. If you remember that scribed line in the first pic, it was used with a square to place the spoke holes such that they wouldn't get in the way of the bolts.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/hubspoked4_zpsec83bff7.jpg)

After cleaning up the spokes I fitted it together.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/hubwithring5_zps015a6513.jpg)

So how'd it go?

Here it is turning...

Video >>>

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_MVI_9468_zpseb2e17f5.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=MVI_9468_zpseb2e17f5.mp4)

I was off by about 15 thou in one direction. I got to within a couple after adjusting.

Video >>>

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_MVI_9469_zpsb72a7767.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=MVI_9469_zpsb72a7767.mp4)

Then I drilled and reamed for the crank. I also put a bit of a chamfer on the one end.

The hub is a bit off center. Not as bad as I'd expected. The rim and spokes are held pretty good but could be a bit tighter. A little wobble but not much.

Still need to part off and chamfer the other side.

I wish it were better but for a first go I'm okay with it.
I'll feel better after a few  :DrinkPint:  ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 25, 2012, 06:27:36 PM
A treadle wheel never ran true so if you did not have a couple of thou run out it would not look realistic ;).
You can always mount the hub on a mandrel and give the outer surface another skim.

Would you like to make me one next?  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on December 25, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
Looking really good Zee.  Cool to come up with your own design and approach.  Time to:  :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on December 25, 2012, 07:28:23 PM
Looks good to me Carl, I think you did a jam of a job on it. For not being a expert machinist and designing your own models you have done great. I should do as good.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 25, 2012, 08:26:42 PM
Thanks all. Your comments really mean and help a lot.

You can always mount the hub on a mandrel and give the outer surface another skim.

I could kick myself. I'd dreamed that solution a few weeks ago. Thanks Jo. Great idea.

Would you like to make me one next?

So many thoughts are going through my mind.  :naughty:
None I can sell but several I can enjoy.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 25, 2012, 09:48:48 PM
Couple of assembly shots...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/frontassembly_zpsebbc4488.jpg)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/backassembly_zps03261218.jpg)

Many defects but for a first go I'm fairly satisfied.
Small gaps between the end of the spoke tabs and the indents.
Small gaps between the inside of the tabs and the inner ring.
Bit of a wobble when rotating.
Got the hub on backwards.  :cussing:

Overall though it's looking kind of nifty.

Need to make the crankshaft pin, redo the straps for the pedals, make a support for the pedal bar, and a few more bolts and pins and I think a quick run can be had. First up a temporary base so it'll be stable.

[Edit] Meant to thank Jo for her timely post. The part was still in the lathe. All I had to do was skim the hub to get it to look true. Thanks again Jo!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on December 25, 2012, 11:03:10 PM
I think it looks fantastic Carl, and a highly original model  :cartwheel:

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on December 26, 2012, 12:57:54 AM
I think it looks fantastic Carl, and a highly original model  :cartwheel:

Steve

Me 2  :NotWorthy:

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on December 26, 2012, 02:08:57 AM
all I can add is 'wow nice job' :cheers: :whoohoo:
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: smfr on December 26, 2012, 05:37:01 AM
Wow, that's really coming together! Looks great  :ThumbsUp:

Simon
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 26, 2012, 07:09:38 AM
So many thoughts are going through my mind.  :naughty:
None I can sell but several I can enjoy.
:noidea:

I like the contrast you have achieved by using different materials. You mentioned a couple of gaps, assuming that this is for your good lady, you don't want her getting metal polish building up in those gaps. So have you thought about how you going to do to try to keep her polished appearance?

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tel on December 26, 2012, 09:24:42 AM
Onya Zee - lookin' good!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 26, 2012, 11:49:16 AM
Thanks very much all.

I admit to having felt a bit down for a while. I had little confidence it would come together as well as it did (albeit not as well as I'd hoped) and it was a bit of struggle to work on it. But whether it looks as good as I want, I've regained some excitement and feel I've proved some things to myself.

You mentioned a couple of gaps, assuming that this is for your good lady, you don't want her getting metal polish building up in those gaps. So have you thought about how you going to do to try to keep her polished appearance?

Nope.
I'm going to be in trouble aren't I?  :Lol:

Actually, the bigger trouble I'm facing is that I have 3 good ladies around me. Wife and two daughters.
The older daughter's hobby is spinning and I expect this model will eventually find it's way to her.
So the problem is the younger daughter. Her hobby is socializing. What to make?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on December 26, 2012, 02:56:08 PM
That looks fantastic.  The unique wheel design, and having it all work out, should make you feel proud.

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 26, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
Thanks Lee. Yeah...I'm proud...ish.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on December 26, 2012, 06:57:52 PM
So, where does the air go in?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on December 26, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
Congratulations on an excellent project.  I love to see things other than engines made using our skills and doing such a good job makes it all the better.

Quote
So the problem is the younger daughter. Her hobby is socializing. What to make?

Yeah, know what you mean.  I've got two (adult) daughters too.

Socializing among the younger set today often involves candles.  How about an oil lamp done in metal?  Something along the lines of these...

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/45635-By-request-more-Christmas-presents?highlight=oil+lamp+wick
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 26, 2012, 07:17:58 PM
Thanks Marv.

The candle idea is a good one although I'm hoping for something a bit more kinetic.
However! A little fan above the candle that twirls from the air uplift would do.
I'm sure you know what I mean...those (typically German) wooden houses with a candle at each corner and a fan blade above that causes figures to rotate.

Seems like it would be a decent gift...or bribe.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on December 26, 2012, 07:25:59 PM
Ah, yes.  We have an expression for those...

Weihnachten Kitsch

I like them almost as much as those [censored] nut crackers.

My apologies.  I haven't washed the taste of Xmas out of my soul yet.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on December 26, 2012, 07:46:23 PM
Nifty indeed Carl!!!  And unique, and well made, original, nice contrast of metals, fascinating, and the main thing...a testament to your ever growing skills.  We will of course need a video of it doing its thing once finished.  Your daughter will treasure it I am sure!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on December 26, 2012, 09:50:40 PM
I like it Carl, you daughter should really treasure it as it was you who made it for her. Great job and great post although a few sidelines but I enjoyed it. And yes video please!

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 26, 2012, 11:15:39 PM
Thank you all for the comments. Very much appreciated.

The plan is for at least two videos. One when I get it running at all. One when fully finished (that will be a while). For that matter, the first might be a while. I just discovered I have to remake the pedals too.  :cussing: If I ever get done I'll probably have the parts for two. Would that count Jo?

Marv...I know what you mean, particularly about the nutcrackers. But at least the kids enjoy the Weihnachten Kitsch.

I've flamed at least two Weihnachten Kitsch and had a couple with fans that were worthless. The last one I got 3 or 4 years ago and it's still a gem. (Always buy quality.) Actually, the last one is the only one I ever bought. All others were booby-traps gifts.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on December 27, 2012, 01:54:52 AM
That is just plain C-O-O-L  8)  beans Zeep! Really neat. I have to admit though, that I had no idea what the finished product was going to look like. I've always pictured a spinning wheel as one of those huge spindly wheels mounted on a just as spindly three-legged stool but then, I'm just a moron when it comes to things involving thread and fabric. Your daughter is going to be thrilled to no end.


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: NickG on December 27, 2012, 03:30:49 PM
agree with everyone it looks  fantastic, like the method for the wheel. well done.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on December 27, 2012, 04:05:36 PM
You must have a very small daughter to be able to pedal this.  Or will you be training gerbils?

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 27, 2012, 04:46:48 PM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the comments.

You must have a very small daughter to be able to pedal this.

Maybe she can pedal just using her big toes.

She's 6' 2", slim, and could've been a model.
Takes after her 6' mom who could still be a model.  :naughty:

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 27, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
She's 6' 2", slim, and could've been a model.
Takes after her 6' mom

Not after her dad then :LittleDevil:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: John S on December 27, 2012, 04:58:38 PM


My apologies.  I haven't washed the taste of Xmas out of my soul yet.

That's news marv, didn't know you had one  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on December 27, 2012, 05:24:31 PM


My apologies.  I haven't washed the taste of Xmas out of my soul yet.

That's news marv, didn't know you had one  :facepalm:

I bought an extra.  Would you like me to send it along to you?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 27, 2012, 06:04:19 PM
She's 6' 2", slim, and could've been a model.
Takes after her 6' mom

Not after her dad then :LittleDevil:.

Jo

Well I used to be 6' 2". And slim. And no doubt some one's going to pop in and mention the possibility of where she got her legs from. As pretty as mine are...she got Mom's. Which is probably good considering my legs are the length of someone who would be 5" 10". I've been told I've got an extra vertebra in my back. Doesn't help give me spine though.



My apologies.  I haven't washed the taste of Xmas out of my soul yet.

That's news marv, didn't know you had one  :facepalm:

I bought an extra.  Would you like me to send it along to you?

Oh lots of comments here...

"Felt the need for more soul Marv?"
"Whose did you buy?"
"What kind of person would sell their soul and would you really want it?"
"You didn't deal with a used-soul salesman did you? Consider where they get their supply."
"Surely you didn't get a new out-of-the-box soul! That could be damning."

Keep polishing up the one you have Marv. It's a good one...made special for you.
Should be shared and not sold.

 ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on December 27, 2012, 06:51:39 PM
Quote
"Whose did you buy?"

Guy named Niccolo.  (I used to teach violin.)  :mischief:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 27, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
Quote
"Whose did you buy?"

Guy named Niccolo.  (I used to teach violin.)  :mischief:

Took a second but I found it. Paganini - "The Devil's Violinist". "rumored by his contemporaries that he had sold his soul to the devil".

So you're the buyer eh?

You don't say whether you taught him...but I wouldn't be surprised. Given he passed away in 1840, it would explain the well worn cynicism.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: John S on December 27, 2012, 09:06:17 PM
Quote
"Whose did you buy?"

Guy named Niccolo.  (I used to teach violin.)  :mischief:

Though you was on the fiddle..............
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on December 27, 2012, 10:14:32 PM
Late, always...
Finally got to see the videos, Carl.  Look pretty good!
I love the look of the assembled spinner.  I'm very fond of contraption-ey things, and
this fills the bill nicely. 
Keep at it, legs.  Vacation is half over!  ;)

Dean
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 28, 2012, 04:18:12 AM
Dean! Yeah you're right. Vacation is half over and I still have a lot to do!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 28, 2012, 04:31:06 AM
I got good news and bad news. Which first? Well let's go for the bad news so we end up on a high note.

 :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: Broke my 0-80 die. The part came off in it and in trying to get it out I broke one of the cutters. Have to order another one (I'll order two). There's no chance of finishing this over vacation.

So here's a little video. Because I broke the die I had to scavenge some of the bolts from other parts of the model.

Since I had to remake the pedals I didn't have to remake the straps for them.
Took an old 1/16 drill bit and broke off a short length for use as the pin in the crank that the hub captured.
A bit stiff but for not having run it in yet I was fairly pleased.
One issue is some interference from the crank to the outer control rod. The pedal is a tad short. Should be easy enough to fix though.
I think it'll work out so it will run freely but I'm concerned that once it's loaded down from the flyer it may be difficult to keep going.
I was surprised that when I got the pin in and put the thing together there was no discernible wobble...at least so far.

The base is temporary.

Anyway...just a quickie video. Because of the broken die and much finishing to do, it'll be a while before I can complete this.

Hope you enjoy it...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_MVI_9475_zps99e18ed1.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=MVI_9475_zps99e18ed1.mp4)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on December 28, 2012, 06:36:37 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

That's really cool Carl  ;D - nicely done so far!

Sorry about that die... all part of the "fun" though.

I'll add a toast from my own jelly jar tonight after work  :DrinkPint:

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: sbwhart on December 28, 2012, 06:44:28 AM
Thats come on well Carl

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Stew
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tel on December 28, 2012, 07:06:35 AM
Looks good Carl.  :ThumbsUp:
A little tip with removing broken things from dies - jeweler's saw through on of the holes, saw roughly half way through the 'bit', move to next hole, ditto repeato, ditto repeato for all holes, offending 'thing' should jusr fall out.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on December 28, 2012, 07:30:46 AM
Look like you need a bit of practice pedaling :D, even full sized wheels can be temperamental when you are learning.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on December 28, 2012, 10:18:01 AM
That's looking awesome Carl!   don't worry about the tap...you'll sort that out
 :cheers:
Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 28, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
Thanks all.
And thanks for the tip Tel. I've been wanting to get a jeweler's saw. Now it's a necessity as I know I'll break off a part in the die again.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on December 28, 2012, 02:01:43 PM
Awesome Carl, I really like it a lot. A couple of more drinks and you'll be pedaling it down the road. She a beaut Carl.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on December 28, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
Wonderful Carl!!!  So nice to see it come to life after all your efforts.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Captain Jerry on December 28, 2012, 03:10:54 PM
 :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:

Nice going, Carl.  You have shown yourself to be a man of thoughtful planning, patience, and perseverance. Under those circumstances, success is always a possibility!

Jerry
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: cfellows on December 28, 2012, 03:28:13 PM
Great project, Zee!  Looks like a little Jewel.  I especially like the flywheel.

Chuck
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 28, 2012, 04:43:12 PM
Thanks very much all. Very nice comments and much appreciated.

Probably no more updates for a while. Need to get the new die (which I ordered today), get drive loosened up, figure out how to make a band for the wheel, and start polishing. Won't be much to show until then.

I think I'll start that dynamo too. I hope I get some time. Gotta move some furniture to my daughter's house, finish a wine rack I had promised a year ago, and all the other little jobs people have bugged me about.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on December 28, 2012, 05:13:59 PM
Congratulations Zee, Nice to see it working :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on December 28, 2012, 10:10:35 PM
I love it, Zee!  It's truly a fun thing, and it WORKS!  So cool.
The way Tel told about getting a piece out of a die is exactly how I do it, too.
Small dies often end up with a piece broken off inside. 

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Pete49 on December 29, 2012, 02:34:44 AM
 :whoohoo: :cartwheel: :whoohoo: nicely done Zee the finishing touches will certainly make your daughter a happy dudette :Lol: I'm sure she will treasure it.
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on December 29, 2012, 03:30:09 AM
Probably no more updates for a while.

*ahem*    You are not finished yet there bub.  We need a video of it "running".  Making thread or whatever the full sized ones do.   :thewhip: 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on December 29, 2012, 04:30:47 AM
Thanks guys.

*ahem*    You are not finished yet there bub.  We need a video of it "running".  Making thread or whatever the full sized ones do.   :thewhip:

You are correct. I am not done. Just saying there won't be much to show until I am done.
However, if that is insufficient I can provide pics of grit, rags, polish, and provide an audio of blue stream vocals.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on December 29, 2012, 04:18:39 PM
Very nice Zee.   Good progress and fun to see it in action.  Flywheel is looking awesome on there.

On pins that I am using for pivots I usually spin them in the lathe and run some 1500 grit paper over them to catch any rough spots or burrs to help with the stiffness.   Just don't over do it.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 02, 2013, 05:41:29 PM
Thanks Rick. Useful tips.

..............

Well rats. Got the 0-80 dies but I couldn't get either to cut.
One of them looks like it's even unfinished...the cutters seem joined together.
The other is way closed and I tried to open the gap. No good.
Am in touch with vendor to see what can be done.

You might recall I mentioned some interference between the crank and the far control rod. That the pedal is a tad short. I realized the other night I can remake the strap and move the pedal a bit forward. I can trim the near end of the other pedal to match. That should take care of it. I may also put a washer against the control rod...not sure if there's enough room though.

In the meantime, I made a base for Spinster. The frame will probably be replaced.
Not real happy with how it turned out but it'll do. I'm lousy at picking colors too.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/base_zps462db117.jpg)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on January 02, 2013, 05:48:24 PM
Zee,

Commiserations :-\ there are some real rubbish dies kicking around these days. Which is why I gave up buying them mail order.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 05, 2013, 08:18:55 PM
Oh happy day.

You gotta love LittleMachineShop.
I told them about the problems I had with the dies and today two more showed up as replacement!

This happened twice before. A couple of bolts snapped when I was mounting my newly acquired RT. They sent new stronger replacements with no fuss. Another time I had reported a part missing and boom, there it was in the mail.

They really know how to keep their customers happy.

I'm just a customer. No other affiliation.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 05, 2013, 09:36:50 PM
Carl I noticed you are wanting to get started on your Dynamo. I found this site which would be real helpful machining it. http://www.mysidewheeler.com/pmdynamo.htm

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 05, 2013, 10:03:34 PM
Oh thanks very much Don! That is very helpful.
(I note the fellow is another Carl. Even the same incorrect spelling.  ;D)
I'd also come across IronHorse's build back on HMEM.

I do intend (and hope I don't continue paving the road to hell) to make some modifications.
I'd like to try bead blasting the end caps before painting.
Also, I'm not happy with the seam on the top of the casting. IronHorse improved that by using an engraver.
I'm thinking of trying to make the dynamo look more like a model of a larger machine.
Maybe a catwalk across the top (hiding the seam) and some stairs going up to it. That's why I had asked about that grating on the other thread.

But all that for when I get the thread started. Still waiting to see what happens at work. I don't really want to start a project only to set it aside for what could be a long time. I expect the job to be okay...but there's a real possibility of a major change in role. I haven't decided whether that would be good or bad.

It'll probably fall into the category of 'it is what it is' or 'most things turn out better than you think'.
Or most likely..."it's never what you thought"  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: vcutajar on January 05, 2013, 10:21:41 PM
A very original model.   :praise2: :praise2:

Love the flywheel. :ThumbsUp:

Vince
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 05, 2013, 10:28:41 PM
Carl the Dynamo is really not that hard of a project. A couple of weekend and its done.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 05, 2013, 10:33:48 PM
Carl the Dynamo is really not that hard of a project. A couple of weekend and its done.

Ah yes. I understand that. But my plan is to build it into a small diorama. Hence the catwalk and stairs. I haven't fully designed it yet. But the idea is a little power generator house. Couple of lights...partial roof...that kind of thing. Hence my reference to 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

The other thing I have to figure out (it may be quite easy...I just haven't thought about it yet) is what would be needed to drive it. The ultimate plan is an engine with governor. And there I am completely lost. There will be so many choices.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 05, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
Try Bob Shore's Silver Angel, it has a governor and is 6" high. Of coarse this is a hit and miss IC engine.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on January 05, 2013, 10:57:16 PM
These little generator models like to run fairly fast.  Once you get the generator done, consider doing the following before committing to an engine design.

With the target load connected, use a variable speed motor (drill, Dremel or whatever) to drive a pulley connected to the generator pulley.  Once you get a satisfactory light output, note the pulley diameters and the drive motor speed so you can use these in selecting an engine design.

Keep your eyes open for small, low voltage filament flashlight bulbs or the like.  They're getting harder to find and you don't want to use LEDs in your model steam power house.

Also, if you're building a diorama, investigate the lighting options that are available for doll houses.  There are some very sophisticated filament grain-of-wheat bulb systems out there and some of the light fixtures have a suitable industrial look about them.  MicroMark has some but they are more HO train oriented.  Look for the real doll house suppliers.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 06, 2013, 12:57:43 AM
You do want to keep it looking like the times. Like on steam engines using lighting of the time, but I have no fault In using an LED light. The jumbo white LEDS have the look of a lamp globe when installed into a lamp pole thus keeping with the time. This way you don't have to run you Dynamo at any higher speed then need to. A seried resistor is installed to limit the current drain to a safe level because the LED has a set max level. By adjusting the resistor value you can control what voltage level to use from your Dynamo.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 06, 2013, 01:06:16 AM
Thanks Don and Marv.

Yes Marv. Good idea. My early thinking at this point (not having anything to work on yet) is to incorporate a little voltage regulator. Two of the lights are for the 'shop' that houses the dynamo. Probably LED but I'll experiment. The 3rd light will probably be incandescent. Not sure why at this point. It's for a street lamp.

Some time ago when I was investigating hobbies (and came up with machining), I looked into doll houses. I was surprised at how large a niche market it is...and all the interesting items that are available. As I was surprised about hobby machining and other hobbies too.

It really made me realize how important having a hobby, any hobby, is and that there's a lot of support and social interaction available. I ended up here.  ;D

Just saw your post Don. I'm very familiar with LEDs. I design bill acceptors that use LEDs of various wavelengths to scan banknotes. Still, that's more from a software point of view rather than actually designing the hardware. (Although I used to do that too...I started 'life' as a hardware engineer...but then saw the 'light'  ;D).
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Troutsqueezer on January 06, 2013, 05:01:48 AM
Zee, I have been away for awhile and have not seen your spinning wheel assembled. May I say it is a wonder to behold. Mighty nice work going on there, good buddy. I like the choices you make for construction projects. Variety is the spice of life.

Dennis
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on January 06, 2013, 08:10:55 AM
..I started 'life' as a hardware engineer...but then saw the 'light'  ;D).

Zee, We have a similar background: I started as an electronics engineer, designing microprocessors for satellites, then became a software engineer. I now design systems and their architecture.  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 06, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
Dennis! Very glad to see you pop in and thank you very much for your comments. Get a build going! I know there are many here who would like to see it.

Jo...seems like we have a lot in common then. Software, machining, wine,...and we don't wear dresses anymore.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on January 06, 2013, 01:26:03 PM
 Yes but Zee I have every intention of being able to wear mine in the not too distant future. ;).

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 06, 2013, 03:38:43 PM
We now return to our regularly unscheduled programming...

Maybe LMS got a bad batch of 0-80 dies.  :'( The first two dies I got some time ago were great. I don't think it's me...I've made a bunch of 0-80 bolts with little issue...but there's always that chance.

I couldn't get one of the dies to cut. The other one cut a bolt but the bolt just sort of slips into the pin rather than screwing into it. Tried another pin and it was better. I opened the die a bit (or tried to) and made another bolt. Better but it doesn't take hold in the pin until about 1/16" in. Tried some other threaded holes...not a good fit. I supposed it could also be my tap.

Major diameter is supposed to be .06 but I can't get it to cut at that. .056 seems to work. Measured after cutting and it seems to be at .053.

Just came across some Interstate dies at Enco. Half the price. Hm.
I don't know anything about Interstate.
Anyone have other possible sources at a decent price?

I also see that Enco offers some taps at a reasonable price.
Interstate again (cheap). Hertel (a bit more) and OSG (more expensive but still not bad).
Any comments?

Thanks.

Hm...I could also save myself a lot of aggravation and simply buy a bag from MicroFasteners. Bag of 100 pc 1/2" is $8.40...about the price of a cheap die or tap. Goes against my wish to make all parts but it would save a whole lot of time. I need 44 of them.

Which reminds me...You'll recall I got the hub on backwards which means the bolts holding the hub together is on the front side rather than the rear. I don't think I can reverse the hub. (Can't flip the whole flywheel around because the spoke tabs are really crappy.) But I think I can replace those black 4-40 socket heads with brass and make it look better. I'd slot them for a screwdriver.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: smfr on January 06, 2013, 06:13:19 PM
Too bad about the dies :(

I just purchased some new-old-stock taps and dies from this seller on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/feldgeneralstore/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/feldgeneralstore/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686). Shipping was prompt and the tools look good, but I haven't used them yet. They have a 0-80 die for $6.99.

I've also purchased Interstate taps and dies from Enco; quality seemed good and they cut well.

Simon
Title: Spinster
Post by: NickG on January 06, 2013, 06:23:29 PM
Yep Been there with the dies, I got some soba ones which I was lead to believe were good quality. I was trying to thread some rod 10ba for poppin, kept wondering why it wasn't working to find out the prongs had bent and there were no teeth left. I got the, probably 30 year old presto one passed on from dad and that worked a treat! The crap die is still sat on my shel as was going to go back to them but couldn't be bothered!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on January 06, 2013, 06:26:53 PM
I now only buy dies if I can see them first. I have some whirlwind dies that are second only to a coventry die head.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 06, 2013, 06:49:54 PM
Thanks all.

Simon...that looks like a pretty good link and seller. Thanks!

Jo...unless some one around here can point me to something close, I don't know of any place where I can 'look before buy'. Trade shows are sparse too and I generally hate waiting for anything (except taxes and death).

I think I'll go ahead and order some things from Enco. I've dealt with them before and been happy.
I'll also order some bolts from MicroFastener. At least then I can put Spinster together quickly with less potential frustration.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 06, 2013, 09:10:13 PM
Carl, of the brands you mentioned above, Hertel should be ok and OSG I would trust even more. As with many things, you get what you are willing to pay for.  Am I understanding that the replacements from LMS were bad too? The .053" major diameter you note would be way too loose for sure especially in that small size...almost 12% undersized.

PM Research also shows these smaller sizes but doesn't list a brand name so not sure where they come from.  You might also try MSC though they only list Interstate at $11.75 and OSG at $42.04 (ouch) in HSS.  They ship out of PA so you should have 1 day service.

Micro-Fasteners are good to deal with and their prices seem good to me if you can stand buying 50 or 100 of an item.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 06, 2013, 10:12:15 PM
Thanks very much Bill.

Yes. The replacement dies were little better. Bit of a surprise considering the ones I had initially gotten from LMS. It may be me...but I kind of doubt it.

When I went online to order the bolts from MicroFastener I noticed they had an 0-80 die as well as tap. The prices were decent so I went ahead and ordered them. I have no idea what brand they are but if they work they work. If they don't...then another lesson I should probably have learned already.

I don't mind getting a baggie of bolts. I went for 1/2" as that's the longest I need for this and will cut them down as required. I suspect (rather, I'm sure) they'll be used (or lost) over time  ;D.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 09, 2013, 02:40:55 AM
I (re)discovered the wonders of oil! It's amazing what a little dab will do ya.

I was thinking of using something else to run Spinster in but instead I just squirted a little 3-in-1 in various places. I didn't want to disassemble it yet until I receive the bolts.

Here's a short video. Sorry...no music, no commentary, no knees.

I do well with a single finger. Very hard to synchronize with two fingers. Interestingly, it's a bit easier with two fingers if I place them at the end of the pedals (away from the hinges).

I have my doubts it'll spin thread for a number of reasons. For one thing, adding the extra load may make it too difficult to run. For another, I haven't figured out what to do for a band. Can't be a rubber band or that kind of thing. The flyer adjusts to put tension. Thought about string but I worry the glue used to put it together will prevent it from going round the small pulley. I doubt I can find a thin enough, long enough, o-ring. I'm thinking my best bet is some thick fishing line but even then...it may slip on either the pulley (whorl or bobbin) or the flywheel. Well we'll see.

There's also the issue of getting the thread onto the flyer in the first place.

While it doesn't look it because of the base (it's not very stable), there's a lot less wobble than I thought there'd be.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_oiled_zps58e9cf60.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=oiled_zps58e9cf60.mp4)

Been having troubles with PB so I hope this works. You may have to give a second or so to load.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 AM
Looking good Zee!   For a drive band check into the drive springs used on small toy steam engines like Mamod.    The springs can be sized by twisting the ends into each other so you can get the tension you need.   Get the unjoined bands and cut to length.   You can find them in the US but here is a UK site;

http://www.mamodparts.com/spares-Drive_Bands.asp?part_id=100336 (http://www.mamodparts.com/spares-Drive_Bands.asp?part_id=100336)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 09, 2013, 03:52:35 AM
Awesome Carl, that really gets after it. You have done a great job be proud bud. :praise2:

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on January 09, 2013, 04:20:35 AM
Yes, what Don said   :pinkelephant:

Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 09, 2013, 11:21:51 AM
Thanks guys. It's pretty exciting  ;D

Rick, thanks for the suggestion. I took a look but I don't see what the diameter is. Also not sure if it can drive a wheel that's on the order of 1/4 or 3/8 diameter. The band (or cord) has to be pretty thin diameter stuff. Probably on the order of 1/32 if not smaller. It has to wrap twice around the flywheel and the rim is only 0.2 wide (and I didn't do the greatest job of getting a groove in it).
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 09, 2013, 11:33:32 AM
Amazing Carl...not that it works...I had no doubts about that...but how well it works and what a great job you have done on it too!!  3-in-1 is great stuff too....ranks right up there with duct tape and some good Tennessee sippin whisky :)

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 09, 2013, 11:45:34 AM
Did someone say sippin whiskey? Zee I'll buy. Great job. I have been following since the start and to see it run even lowered my stress level. I know you are as proud as a new pappa. Gotta have one of them finger driven thingees of some sorts for the desk. Congrats.
Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Captain Jerry on January 09, 2013, 02:12:30 PM
Carl and Zee

You guys have created a work of art and you can be rightfully proud of the flywheel (I had some doubts) but for me, the double throw crank is the top attraction.  That is really cool.

Jerry
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on January 09, 2013, 03:34:39 PM
Great work Carl.  :cartwheel: :cartwheel: :cartwheel:  It certainly goes the old finger engine about a hundred times better.
You might be able to use thread of some size for the band if you can glue the ends with one of the anti-fray adhesives. You could experiment with rubber cement to make the band also; coat the entire loop and let it set well to maybe provide traction. If there is no stretchable band would you want to add a spring loaded idler or would that throw the concept too far out?
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bezalel on January 09, 2013, 09:08:24 PM
Hi Zee


Looking real good.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:


If you'er still looking for drive belt options you could try a drive belt for VCR or Audio recorder from a model before everything went direct drive.


This mob is bound to have one the right size and profile.  whether the belt profile is flat, round, square or whatever.


http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/belts.htm (http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/belts.htm)


I'll be interested to see how it turns out.


Bez
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on January 09, 2013, 09:26:11 PM
Some more cord/belt ideas...

RC belt supplier...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=belts&search=Go

O-ring cord by the foot...

http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=117_537

make your own kits...

http://www.daemar.com/o_ring_kits_130.html

another approach...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-silicone-O-rings-and-tubing/
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 09, 2013, 11:39:12 PM
Thanks very much everyone. It's really starting to get exciting. Just got my bolts, die, and tap today. Not so sure about the bolts. The heads are a bit smaller than I'd hoped. But I think they'll do.

(I had some doubts)

Hee  hee. You, me, and many others I'm sure. But still a ways to go!

You might be able to use thread of some size for the band if you can glue the ends with one of the anti-fray adhesives. You could experiment with rubber cement to make the band also; coat the entire loop and let it set well to maybe provide traction. If there is no stretchable band would you want to add a spring loaded idler or would that throw the concept too far out?

Thought about some kind of string. Hadn't thought about rubber cement. That's something to remember.

Don't want the band to be stretchable. The flyer tilts back using a bolt and that puts tension on the band to drive the flyer. In the prototype, you adjust the tension so as you feed the material in, you can retard the action and change the characteristics of the product. (I have no hope of that in this small of a model).

There's really 3 possibilities at this point:

1) The flywheel is able to drive the flyer and spin two threads together into yarn. Yeah right.
2) The flywheel is able to drive the flyer but forget about spinning two threads together. I'm okay with that.
3) The flywheel can't drive the flyer. Bummer but I'll live with it. And I've got that now. It's still cool to me.

It's all about being able to drive over the friction that is needed (cause there is some) and not having so much friction that it doesn't work (but there's probably some).  ;D

Thanks for the links Bez and Marv. I will certainly look at them. Like, right now...
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on January 10, 2013, 12:45:17 AM
I'm hoping for possibility #1. After all of your hard work on this you deserve it.  :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: metalmad on January 10, 2013, 12:49:04 AM
Hi Zee
Just watched the video
Way cool  :whoohoo:
Pete
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 14, 2013, 12:29:34 AM
I deem this cruddy.

I gave the flyer a run. It seems pretty obvious that spinning two threads together will put me in knots.
I was hoping that the flyer would at least run...but that's looking pretty doubtful too.
I'll keep at it though. I still have hope.
Still, if it ends up stationary but can still turn the flywheel...I'll be happy.

Just took a strand from some thick string, tied it, and ran it with a drill.
I suppose I should feel pretty good though. It's never run before, still have some polishing and loosening up to do. Definitely need some washers to get things placed right.

The drill bit is in place of the knurled stop that doesn't fit. The first time I ran it the whole thing popped out and skittered in parts around the floor. My knees hurt.

A little video...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_flyerrun_zps008bb635.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=flyerrun_zps008bb635.mp4)

You might notice on one of the flyer arms what appears to be a hole or slot in the side.
The prototype uses eyelets to take the fiber from the feed to the bobbin.
The arm is only 3/32 diameter. As an experiment, I drilled a hole then used a slitting saw at an angle to cut a slot from the outside to the hole. The hope is that it will hold the thread as it's wound on the bobbin.

Should be a few of them. As the bobbin fills up you would move the thread/fiber to another eyelet. This isn't a production unit...so one is enough to have fun with.

I am called to dinner. Which means the end of today's shop-time.
After dinner it's wine and the next episode of Downton Abbey.
T made fresh baquettes to go along. Mmmmm.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 14, 2013, 12:42:18 AM
Ok Zee the movement is nice enough if it never never spins a yarn :Doh: After dinner fresh bread wine and some tele, start the pretty flywheel slowly spinning and just repeat : If Marv just hadn't ran off to Tijuana with my sheep over and over. You'll be out like a light. :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 14, 2013, 01:23:36 AM
If Marv just hadn't ran off to Tijuana with my sheep over and over. You'll be out like a light.

What? Go to sleep prepping for a nightmare?

I usually think about 3 things when I go to bed...

1) The upcoming day at the mines..."how can I make this work?"
2) The project I'm working on..."how can I make this work?"
3) None of anyone's business but still involves "how can I make this work?"

Reverse order of course.
I must admit though...at my age, #3 is quickly answered...either by me "Probably not" or by some one else, "Go away", which makes me happy to know I was right. But I live to be wrong.  ;D

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on January 14, 2013, 08:20:59 AM
#3 is quickly answered...either by me "Probably not" or by some one else, "Go away" ;D

See SWMBO can solve alsorts of problems that you may have otherwise been worrying about ;D

Best I don't tell you what I think/dream about when I go to bed, 'cause you might be dissapointed  :embarassed:.

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on January 14, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
You'll get it bud.....that way too! 8)......

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on January 14, 2013, 01:13:17 PM
I don't get it.

(take that any way you want) :)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on January 14, 2013, 10:37:32 PM
"Go away"..  Ow!  That could hurt a guy's feelers.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on January 14, 2013, 10:59:22 PM
But I live to be wrong.

I sympathize.  After all, my shrink told me, "Maybe life isn't for everyone."
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 15, 2013, 12:32:40 AM
"Go away"..  Ow!  That could hurt a guy's feelers.

Ah...but sometimes I'm wrong.  :naughty:

Not that different from machining. Make bad parts until you get it right. And then  :pinkelephant:
The only real difference is I can usually get a good part after a few tries.  :lolb:
Well...another difference is...I may quit after trying to make a part a dozen or so times.
Thousands of 'Go away' won't. I don't believe there's even a limit.

[Edit] Okay, so I'm wrong. There are many many differences.
Cold metal...warm something something
Hard metal...soft something something
Unforgiving metal...unforgiving...well maybe that's more of a sameness...at times.
Cuts like butter...cuts like a knife  :lolb:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: 90LX_Notch on January 15, 2013, 02:10:39 AM
Carl-

Sorry I'm late to the party; but I must say, well done.  That is very cool project.  You've come along way since that first build a few years back.  Great job.

-Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 15, 2013, 02:27:29 AM
Thanks Bob. I remember you as one of the first to welcome me to this group back on HMEM.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Say that last with no expression on your face and you'll capture my feeling.  :ROFL:

Thanks for popping in.

That one's with a smile.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 22, 2013, 12:28:36 AM
Sanding away.

Overall I'm fairly pleased with how the parts are finishing up. I'm not going for the bling-bling...just a nicely sanded finished.

I've got at least 3 major issues to deal with. Well 2 and 1 not so much.

Not real happy with the flyer assembly. That's going to need some work. Washers and probably one or two parts remade. Not so bad really. The little hole and slot in the flyer arm is problematic. Real easy to bend because there's not much metal left. I'll try something smaller. And I'd really like to get 3 of them in rather than just one.

I'm stuck on the pedals. (Seen in bottom right of the picture.) I've thought about filing the edges and bottom corners but I just know what'll happen (it won't be straight) and that will really take away from the look. I should bite the bullet and get some round-over bits and play with RT. Luckily I have two other pedals to practice on. Ah...the advantage of remaking parts.

The third issue...the third...drat. Can't remember. But there's a third. I know there's a third because there has to be a fourth, fifth...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/somesandedparts_zps2273c580.jpg)

Not the best job on the flywheel rim...but it'll do.

I was pretty surprised and satisfied with some of the button filing work. I reworked some parts and they came out much better. Not 'excellent'...but given I hadn't done this before...I'm happy.

Really just a blatant attempt to keep this thread going.  ;D

I'd have more but I'm being pulled out of my hole for dinner.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 22, 2013, 12:41:25 AM
Zee, I just think that flywheel is great looking!! It has such a vintage artsy look. Great job :cheers:
Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: propforward on January 22, 2013, 12:44:30 AM
I agree. I really like the finish you have achieved on that. Those parts are looking excellent.

I hear you on the filing - some people can take a file to metal and produce lovely straight edges, or perfect radii. But not me.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dave Otto on January 22, 2013, 01:01:22 AM
That's a nice looking pile of parts Zee!

I'm late to the party but I did go back and check out your project; nice work! :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 22, 2013, 05:00:21 AM
Oh good Carl!  you are going to add some bling to the spinster. Yea i know not bling bling. Just remember when you sand to keep your sand paper clean as you sand or the particles you remove will scratch as you sand. It best to use water with wet and dry sandpaper, just keep the water flowing this will remove the particles as you sand. Also flush you sandpaper often.
On the pedals just give them a bevel edge by passing a file gently around all the edges. This is to give it a used look and not just square. A suggestion is to use a rock tumbler with beads or sand in it. That will take the edges off. You have done a great job Carl, you should be proud. Not everyone has the ability to do what you have done. Doing is the only way you will learn and failing to try to do things, gets nothing done and nothing learned. You my friend have talent and never under estimate yourself.

Don
Title: Spinster
Post by: NickG on January 22, 2013, 11:05:43 AM
Looking really good Zee, finishing is something I can never be bothered with.  I pay lip service to it and hence the standard of my models is never as good as it could be!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on January 22, 2013, 02:27:26 PM
I like the fact that you haven't blinged it out completely.  I have to resist the urge to polish everything to a mirrior finish myself (I blame Ralph!).  Since it becomes such a chore (I'm a perfectionist), it leaves many a project half finished.  Your flywheel looks fine to me.

BTW, those green scothbrite pads are perfect for putting a fine brushed finish on aluminum.  You can even cut rough circles and mount them in a dremel cutoff mandrel for theose hard-to-get-at inside corners. 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on January 22, 2013, 03:20:46 PM
Looking good Carl, whats next a CRACKER :Lol: go on you know you want to :LittleDevil:
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 22, 2013, 03:42:46 PM
Those finishes look good Carl. The more I see that flywheel, the more i like it too!!  You will do a final video won't you....once you are happy with everything? Maybe even the dancing popsicle stick puppet...complete with miniature tutu :)

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on January 22, 2013, 03:51:10 PM
I hope so Bill it will be a high point in my sad existence and after chastising others does Carl have an option :facepalm: :naughty:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on January 22, 2013, 04:47:54 PM
It DOES look good Carl  :)

BTW, those green scothbrite pads are perfect for putting a fine brushed finish on aluminum.
Oh yes, I agree totally.  The lazy person's way to get a nice brushed finish on aluminium - that's why 95% of aluminium on my engines was done with it  ;)

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: steamer on January 22, 2013, 05:20:28 PM
Keep going buddy!

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 22, 2013, 06:34:04 PM
THanks everyone.

And thanks rleete for reminding me about the scotchbrite. There are a couple of places I'ld like to clean up.

Frazer...yeah I know. It's really bugging me to do a Cracker. But as I recall that requires working with copper and silver soldering. I should get a bit more experience with that and put together the boiler kit I got.

Bill...no promises other than I will do a final video. But I will give the stick puppet idea some thought. Oops...lost it. Drat...back again.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on January 22, 2013, 07:48:45 PM
But as I recall that requires working with copper and silver soldering. I should get a bit more experience with that and put together the boiler kit I got.
Bah...  The boiler kit is more expensive and bigger than the materials for a Cracker boiler.  The "bigger" part makes it more difficult to silver solder.  The "expensive" part speaks for itself.  Plus, you'd get to play around with gears on the Cracker.  It's about time you got things in gear  :stir: And you'd get around to play with machining, bending and annealing copper stock  >:D .  I might even be tempted to draw up and send you the plans for the double-acting wobbler engine I built for mine - It has a smaller bore than the original engine to preserve steam...  It's slightly more difficult to build than the original single-acting engine, but runs much smoother...

 :cheers: , Arnold
 
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on January 22, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
Hi Carl, Cracker uses small amounts of materials and the boiler is very simple nothing to be worried about honestly
If you do decide to do one give me a shout as I have some burner info and I would also add 1/2 to the rear of the frames just to make it easier to mount the gas tank
The gears and wheels are available for very little cost so that shouldn't be a problem
Go on have a go :mischief:
Good luck with the completion of the spinning wheel it has turned into a really fine model
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 27, 2013, 08:26:32 PM
Well this is just fine. Along with Prop's question "What are you working towards?" I've been re-evaluating my projects. Besides a Cracker, I have to add a paddle boat (probably a side-wheeler although a stern-wheeler is pretty attractive too. And then there's this little diorama I have in mind. Involves that dynamo, a boiler (I kind of wish I'd gone for the horizontal one instead-but I can do both), an engine, and some things to be driven. I suspect the engine will have to be somewhat high speed but at this point I have no idea what it'll be. Oh and then some kind of internal combustion engine. Sigh.

Did some looking around for Cracker stuff. Found one set of plans, Arnold's fine thread on MadModder. (I hadn't seen that before and was glad to find it.) and several references to good ol' Vernon who was building a couple. Yeah I'll have to do a Cracker.

Anyway...I thought I'd make a little video about Spinster's flyer assembly. Hope it's of some interest.
Just getting over the flu and you can tell it in my voice. I'm always surprised to hear myself. I definitely still have some Ozark hills in me.

Couple of notes I hadn't mentioned. The thread/fiber would be attached to the bobbin with tape. I have a couple of options to fix the interference with the thread and the bobbin. One is make the diameter of the spindle that the thread goes through a bit bigger. Another is to provide some kind of piping to get the thread further away. Probably won't do anything though. (Actually, the solution is to increase the diameter.)

I just ordered some roundover end mills. When they get in I'll take a run at the pedals.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/th_MVI_9491_zps1805cbc7.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/?action=view&current=MVI_9491_zps1805cbc7.mp4)
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2013, 08:45:16 PM
Very nice update Carl...that's quite a little assembly there and seems to be working well. Having worked in textiles in a former life...its of particular interest to me. Glad you are feeling better too!!

BIll
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on January 27, 2013, 09:56:02 PM
A beautiful assembly Carl. nicely done.  :ThumbsUp:  Rumplestiltskin would be most envious of it. I have to salute your fortitude in laying out and building a vision from scratch. BRAVO!!!  :cheers:


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on January 27, 2013, 10:36:14 PM
Very nicely done Carl and I enjoyed the explanation of how it all works. Great job bud.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2013, 01:53:11 AM
Thank you Bill, Jim and Don. Very much appreciated.

Still somewhat under the weather. Made it to work but had to leave a bit early.
Felt a little better and managed to file off the corners from the hinge point of one pedal.
But that's all.

Got to get to bed. Hopefully dream of Cracker, Dacre, and Idris. Oh what to do. What to do.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Captain Jerry on January 29, 2013, 02:38:24 AM
Oh!  That's what it does.  I had no idea.  This has been a puzzle to me.  Did you splain that earlier?  I mustamist it.  Now I am impressed. Nice work.

Jerry
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2013, 11:08:10 AM
Thanks Jerry.

Did you splain that earlier?

If I had...not well.  ;D
I think I may have said a few things in bits and pieces but without using the assembly as a prop.
I'm glad the video helped.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 29, 2013, 11:53:39 AM
Carl, maybe an extra dose or two of that magic elixer from the jelly jar would knock out the rest of the flu bug :) Worst case...it would make it more paletable at least!! Hang in there and feel better.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: swilliams on January 29, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
I like the video Carl. The mechanism turned out real nice.

Take it easy till your doing better
Steve
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on January 29, 2013, 01:17:12 PM
Nice piece Zee!   :ThumbsUp:   I had no idea how one of those worked.   How did you figure it all out?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on January 29, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
Carl, that is a nice mechanism, and looks good too.  Sorry you are unwell, but at least it will pass.

I am always surprised to hear someone's voice after reading them on a forum, they never match what I expected.  It's hard to picture that burly voice in a tutu.

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 29, 2013, 08:10:55 PM
Zee, finally watched the video at work this morning. If I may be serious for a moment( it won't last) that's just neat as bear scat. My grand mother worked at the local woolen mills back in the day and it's funny but a lot of the names of the parts I can remember hearing her talk to my grandaddy about. I love seeing how things we use everyday are made, both from the past and today. You know ten out of nine times the principles are very much the same it's just now some programmer or some physicist are making space age looking machines do the same thing :stir:  :lolb: Boy you rite bout that accent You swamp or mountain boy ? Just shows that you may move away but you just take it with you. I'd thought T and them home baked baguettes and world travel might prove me wrong: wrong. By the way now if you go to the Doc don't forget to get "all" your prescriptions refilled :lolb: :Jester:

Get well soon
Yo Redneck
Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dean W on January 29, 2013, 08:34:30 PM
Enjoyed your video explanation of the flier and bobbin, Zee.  That does help me
understand what's going on. 
I looks quite pretty and intricate, too.  Nice job!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 29, 2013, 11:39:14 PM
maybe an extra dose or two of that magic elixer from the jelly jar would knock out the rest of the flu bug :) Worst case...it would make it more paletable at least!!

Daughter was kind enough to keep a stream of hot toddies coming (black tea, lemon, honey, and whiskey). It warmed me (for two reasons) and I could feel better for a little while.

Thanks Steve.

How did you figure it all out?

Rick Rick Rick. (As said in the school yard when a relationship is discovered...) Somebody's not been reading. Somebody's not been reading.  ;D It's modeled after my daughter's full scale spinning wheel. The two design challenges was the hinge between the control rods and pedals (just a rubber tube in the original) and the ability to rotate the flyer up and out to removed the bobbin. The left rotating post lets me get it rotate out while the right post/pin removes the need to rotate up. Other than that, I measured the prototype, scaled, and hoped mightily that it would (will) work.

It's hard to picture that burly voice in a tutu.

Burly? Can't say I'd ever been described that way. Cool. But then, a lot of people think I'm 'big' whereas my self-perception is that of a smaller guy. But I guess 6'2" 240lb is big. My 'self' is more like that kid on the left who was no more than like every other kid.

Boy you rite bout that accent You swamp or mountain boy ? Just shows that you may move away but you just take it with you. I'd thought T and them home baked baguettes and world travel might prove me wrong: wrong. By the way now if you go to the Doc don't forget to get "all" your prescriptions refilled

Mountain. Yeah, the accent changed a lot as a kid from moving country to country every 3 years or so. But I ended up in the Ozarks during that time you practice your voice on the girls. I guess it stuck.

Prescriptions aren't the problem. But like any communication, there's no point saying something if nobody's listening.  ;D  :lolb: Ah that one cracks me up. [EDIT: To be fair, it also doesn't help if you're in the shop all the time and the prescriptions are upstairs.]

Thanks Dean! Always glad to see you.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on January 30, 2013, 12:59:25 AM
Zee, my granddad was the one that taught me to fish as a kid. He and his insurance buds would sit in the cabin drinking what they called  "Whopper Stoppers", a concotion of orange juice, honey, and bourbon.  Meanwhile me and my cane pole with cork ( being way too young to indulge), would catch the majority of fish for the day....Bream, crappie, and bass. Fond memories.  He passed from complications of alzheimers when i was in my 30's, but those days of youth, early saturday mornings and fishing, are among my favorite memories.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 30, 2013, 01:07:57 AM
Nice one Bill.  ;D
Reminds me of old memories. Makes me want to go home, but can't. Changed too much.
But like old memories...I visit once in a while.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dave Otto on January 30, 2013, 01:19:35 AM
Hi Zee

I just wanted to say that I watched you video the other day and thoroughly enjoyed it; learned some things too!

That is one cool little assembly; thanks for taking the time to video it for us.

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2013, 12:25:28 AM
Thanks Dave.
==========================

Well I believe I'm somewhat bummed out.
Things have taken a bit of a dive.

Spent the past week sanding, polishing, putting back together.
The flywheel has some significant wobble now...in both axes. Now sure I can make it better. Taking it apart and putting it back together is pretty risky given that it doesn't really fit right. I was lucky the first time.

Then...the pedals didn't come out real well. Maybe I can make it better. But I'm thinking I've been at this long enough now. I've accomplished pretty much what I set out to do, proven some concepts to myself, certainly learned a lot.

Anyway...here's a pic of the pedals. I used a roundover bit (first time). Overall it was pretty straightforward but for whatever reason I had a lot of chatter.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/polishedpedals_zps79764b22.jpg)

Here's a shot of the whole thing. I haven't mounted the pedals yet. I also made a post to hold a couple of thread spools. I'm still hoping I can twist a couple together...but I've found the system to be pretty tight now.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/withthread_zpsf1482aa7.jpg)

What's left?
Attach the pedals.
Mount everything to the base.
Run it in and try to loosen it up.
See if I can twist some threads.

And then the video. That will depend on whether 'tu-tu Productions' can fit me into their schedule.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on February 05, 2013, 12:59:00 AM
What chakged with the flywheel Zee? Knowing how critical of your own work you are i suspect it isn't all that bad  and the pedal look good too.  little sanding should get rid of the chatter marks. All in all its a most impressive project and I know you daughter will be elated to have it!!

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dave Otto on February 05, 2013, 01:08:41 AM
Zee it looks great!

I think any time you tear something down and do finishing work; you are bound to have some teething issues going back together. If it were an engine it probably wouldn't run without some fussing.
Hang in there; you will get a handle on it     then :cheers: :DrinkPint:

I like the plank floor on your base :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 05, 2013, 01:14:32 AM
Awesome Carl, I love it. You did a jam up job on it Bud. I want to see a video of it twisting the thread. Like bill said a little sand paper and the chatter marks will be gone. Beautiful job Carl and go fit and finish.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2013, 03:07:45 AM
Thanks guys.

Bill...not sure what happened with the flywheel. I suspect it just didn't get put together the same way as the first time. I'll probably take Dave's advice and play around with it. I don't think I can make it worse. But it takes a while...it's pretty fiddly.

As for the chatter...I think I know what I did wrong. Couple of things. I had mounted the pedal, on edge, in the vise. It was sticking up out of the vise maybe 3/8". I took the cut at full depth. So I think the pressure caused some bend forcing the part away. I took a couple three passes but the damage was done. I should have taken several lighter cuts maybe. And/or figured a way to support it from the back.

I did do some sanding but got tired of it (I'm lousy at finishing projects - pun intended). I'll have another go at it this weekend. I have a couple of those moldable? sanding blocks that I could use to knock off the majority of chatter.

Well here's hoping. It sure would be neat if it twists some thread.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Jo on February 05, 2013, 07:23:23 AM
Thanks guys.

As for the chatter...I think I know what I did wrong. Couple of things. I had mounted the pedal, on edge, in the vise. It was sticking up out of the vise maybe 3/8". I took the cut at full depth. So I think the pressure caused some bend forcing the part away. I took a couple three passes but the damage was done. I should have taken several lighter cuts maybe. And/or figured a way to support it from the back.

I did do some sanding but got tired of it (I'm lousy at finishing projects - pun intended). I'll have another go at it this weekend. I have a couple of those moldable? sanding blocks that I could use to knock off the majority of chatter.

Zee: use needle files to get rid of the chatter marks then finish with paper, other wise you will loose the edges.

As for the flywheel, try putting it on an arbor loosen up the fixings and then tighten then up to see how they throw the wobble. Somewhere along the lines you should find the appropriate order for tightening the mountings to true up the wheel.

Or you could send Spinster to me I will true it up and send you a video of the wheel running true ;D best not send it back: it might get damaged in the post  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: NickG on February 05, 2013, 09:30:20 AM
Wow, looking very pretty  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
Thanks Jo and Nick.

As for the flywheel, try putting it on an arbor loosen up the fixings and then tighten then up to see how they throw the wobble. Somewhere along the lines you should find the appropriate order for tightening the mountings to true up the wheel.

Or you could send Spinster to me...

The only problem with setting the flywheel on an arbor is that I have to take it apart and then once done, take it apart again to put on the crank and I'll be (likely) back where I started. What I may try is...

There is a pin that goes through the crank and is captured by the hub.

1) Make another mounting bed (so I won't damage the good one)
2) Take off one half of the hub and mount everything on the bed
3) Try and true things up
4) With luck I can get the hub back on without losing true
5) Move it back to the good bed

(I've left out step 3a which goes something like...'drat fooey rats craptitude' and step 5a which hopefully goes 'yay yippee yay'.

As for sending Spinster to you...I really appreciate that. But without a guaranteed return policy I would have to come with it...and that would be costly to both wallet and soul.  ;D (My soul, as there's someone here who would quickly rip it from my chest, show it to me, and ask 'wanna keep this?')
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 05, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
Zee, man this thing is neat. When you first started I had visions of the old wheel in my mother's living room. But, this looks like something from a mill in the days when we wereThe Industrial Nation. I think it looks d&$m good. I'd be as happy with that on a shelf as I would having a Remington sculpture and he didn't have to design the horse. Great job Zee.

Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on February 05, 2013, 01:17:51 PM
Carl,

Would it be possible that after getting the wheel aligned you could use some green (wicking) loctite at the outer ends of the spokes to lock the assembly together?

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2013, 11:02:39 PM
Thanks Eric and Lee.

Lee...I suppose some kind of loctite could be used but not sure why or if it would help. When assembled it pretty much stays put although I can push the rim a little off center. But I'll keep it in mind.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 05, 2013, 11:26:43 PM
Carl to get the wheel align put the hub on an arbor ( the arbor does not have to be tighten, the hubs could be loose enough to handle) and mount the arbor in the tail stock chuck, then chuck your outer wheel in the headstock chuck. Bring the tail stock till the hub half is under the wheel and start installing the spokes and then tighten the hubs together. All should be aligned once secured.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 05, 2013, 11:52:32 PM
Thanks Don. Unfortunately, the hub, spokes, and rim have to remain on the crank. The hub contains the pin that goes through the crank. If I put the flywheel on an arbor to straighten it up, I have to take it apart again to assemble it to the crank and I'm back to the problem. I'm going to try and keep it on the crank and straighten it on that. But I feel somewhat optimistic that I can at least make it better. A small amount of wobble just may not be avoidable. Eventually, the model will be sitting on a shelf. People will simply turn the rim by hand and go 'neat'. ;D

I worked on the pedals tonight and followed Jo's suggestion to use some needle files. I don't know if what I used are appropriate 'needle files' but the pedals are much improved.

My bigger problem now is figuring out the video. It's not likely to be done in one scene and I have no experience editing or splicing videos.

And I have little confidence that 'tu-tu productions' know what they're doing. They have no resources, no experience, and are owned by a sometimes incompetent fool who is in danger of losing his soul.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 06, 2013, 12:05:28 AM
Carl chuck the crank into the tail stock and see if you can do it that way.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on February 06, 2013, 12:30:29 AM
Well, if the pedals are improved the the needle files were appropriate :).

Ooooh, a multi part video....can't wait!!! No excuses now as to the management of tutu productions  :lolb:
Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2013, 12:47:32 AM
chuck the crank into the tail stock and see if you can do it that way.

Hm. Gotta think about that. I can certainly put a live center in the tailstock against one end of the crank. I like that because I would have access to the hub bolts. The other end of the crank would have to go into a 4-jaw. Yes. Worth thinking about.

No excuses now as to the management of tutu productions


You are right. No excuses. None can be made. There is nothing to support or defend any excuse  ;D
I would not recommend them to anyone....outside this forum.  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on February 06, 2013, 03:27:14 AM
..............And I have little confidence that 'tu-tu productions' know what they're doing. They have no resources, no experience, and are owned by a sometimes incompetent fool who is in danger of losing his soul.  ;D




Sounds like the ravings of a Chicago Cub fan to me.  :'( :help: :slap: :Director: yes but just wait till next year.




Sorry Zee, I can't help you with solving your problems but thought a little humor might lighten the mood. I really like your 'Spinster' and hope its troubles can get worked out.


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: larry1 on February 06, 2013, 04:06:37 AM
Zee,  It is truly a pleasure to see your work and hear your voice.  I sure missed everyone.   larry
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2013, 11:49:11 AM
Thanks Jim. Humor is always welcome here. I wouldn't be here if we weren't having fun.

Thanks Larry. I saw your welcome earlier and thought we'd run across each other before. Glad you found us.

Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on February 06, 2013, 12:55:26 PM
Zee;   looking great.  Certainly one of kind.   Have an appropriate answer for the guest who asks;  "Can you make one for me?"

The home stretch with all the filing, sanding and polishing is always my least favorite.   I think my next project will be painted in "crinkle" paint and just hide all the flaws and tool marks.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on February 06, 2013, 02:15:22 PM
Bead blast the pedals.  No sanding, no polishing, no filing.  It roughens up the surface enough to hide machining marks, but will leave the rounding detail.

You can sand or polish the top surface afterwards to get a contrast, or blast the whole thing.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: arnoldb on February 06, 2013, 05:39:02 PM
She looks great to me Carl  :ThumbsUp:

The final fiddling around to get it close enough to "just right" always takes the most effort  :LittleDevil:

Kind regards, Arnold
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 06, 2013, 11:41:49 PM
Thanks Rick, rleete, and Arnold.
You are of course right...this is the fiddly time.

rleete...I haven't got any bead blasting equipment but was thinking about it the other day.
If I'm lucky I may make a  little buying trip this weekend.
But I'll probably be unlucky and find myself at work.  :'(
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on February 07, 2013, 12:55:39 AM
Zee, as you know i am an advocate of bead blasting and it can gine some nice contrasts between rounded and flat surfaces. Masking is easy too. Do you have any way to tru it out at work perhaps before investing in a cabinet and media and suitable compressor? I am fortunate to have access at work and do it there.

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 07, 2013, 01:23:04 AM
My sister in law is a stained glass artist and she has done some etchings with stencils and some type of media blast. I think the gun was almost like an airbrush. Might work on our scale projects. Google or I'll try to ask her.

Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 07, 2013, 02:24:16 AM
Thanks Bill and Eric.

No such equipment at work. We're an electronics manufacturing group. For that matter, we do the designs but manufacturing is elsewhere. We do have a lab...scopes, waveform generators, test equipment, etc. There is a single combo mill/lathe for the techs to modify prototypes...but I won't go near it. Many eyebrows would be raised if they saw a software engineer fooling around with physical things.  :naughty:

I'm thinking of doing some blasting for my next project...but I may just get a gun and material and try it outside. Then maybe invest in a cabinet. But that's down the road a bit.

Next few months are going to make it tough for shop time. The project at work is at critical which is why I expect to be doing some weekend work. I may be going overseas to the customer in March. Then a trip to visit my folks. Then T is planning a trip to Europe (another visit to the Deutsches Museum and some other old stomping grounds I'm hoping!).

I think the pedals will look fine with a bit more fine sanding. This weekend, if I have time, will be fiddling to get the flywheel running better and see if I can spin some thread. But I've heard the kids and T whispering behind my back and that's not a good sign.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: rleete on February 07, 2013, 02:17:38 PM
rleete...I haven't got any bead blasting equipment but was thinking about it the other day.
If I'm lucky I may make a  little buying trip this weekend.
But I'll probably be unlucky and find myself at work.  :'(

The cheap Harbor Fright handheld works pretty well for what it is.  Any kind of blasting will make a mess if you don't have a hood.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on February 07, 2013, 03:23:51 PM
I recently bought this one:

www.harborfreight.com/portable-abrasive-blaster-kit-37025.html

If you use VERY dry play sand available from a hardware store it does an OK job on small parts.  I did an aluminum part and was pleased with the finish, especially for the price.

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 09, 2013, 10:11:42 PM
Well my friends, it's a bust.  :'( It doesn't work and I can't spend any more time on it.  :hellno:
There'll be no video.  :ShakeHead:

I'm calling it done.

But...it's successfail!.  :cheers:

Daughter will be happy with it even if it doesn't work.

Several issues came up. I tried some string coated with rubber cement as the band. At first I thought this was going to work. But trying to install it is extremely difficult and even once I managed it, it was clear it wasn't going to work and nothing else would either. It just comes off the flywheel. Worse, I couldn't get it set in such a way that the tension could be adjusted. The flyer assembly simply falls over.

Yes I'm disappointed but on the other hand I feel pretty good. Real good actually. It's not total craptitude for  one thing. I 'finished it for another. And it does look kind of cool.

Anyway...here's some final pictures. I've also included a few that show some of the poorer aspects. I include them so that other newbies (like me) will realize perfection isn't the be-all and end-all.

It's been a fun spin  :lolb: but I've got to get to other things. As for the next machining project...I haven't decided. I really need to satisfy a number of promises I've made to T.

Here's the front and back...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/frontclose_zpseca1bcdc.jpg)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/doneback_zps56ab6d89.jpg)
A view of the pedals and some of the bolts. I never did really finish the bolts.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/pedalsclose_zps6fe2fdce.jpg)

The flyer assembly. You can see the band and I manually turned the flyer to spin a couple of threads.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/flyerclose_zps62305dcd.jpg)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/yokeclose_zps2db23b32.jpg)

Here you can see some of the big boo-boos. They're on the back of the flywheel so not so noticeable. You can see how I had to file down the spokes to fit the rim. You can also see the gaps between the spokes and the rim.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/Spinster/flywheelclose_zps87fa315b.jpg)

Thank you everyone for looking in and supporting me. I hope you enjoyed it. I certainly did and I appreciate all the help, banter, side trips, jokes, ideas, etc.

Here's to you all  :cheers:

Speaking of which...it's after five. Time to continue my celebration  :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: ScroungerLee on February 09, 2013, 10:19:55 PM
Carl, I think that looks fantastic.  It sure will make a great gift.

Lee
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on February 09, 2013, 10:27:05 PM
Hi Carl,she looks great and will no doubt well received :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:
Congratulations and thanks for sharing the ups and downs of the journey
WHATS NEXT :Lol: :ThumbsUp:
best wishes
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Stilldrillin on February 09, 2013, 10:55:29 PM
Hi Carl.
I've been with you from day one, and enjoyed the entertainment on all 44 pages.  :praise2:

Looks wonderful to me........ A failure? Definately not!  :disagree:

David D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 09, 2013, 11:08:11 PM
Carl I see no failure here, the journey  you took upon yourself to take to complete this project speaks for itself. You should be vey proud that you were able to make such a beautiful piece of art. I am quiet sure your daughter will be proud  of you for making it or her. Well done my friend.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Bearcar1 on February 09, 2013, 11:28:14 PM
What a beautiful and heartfelt piece of work Carl! The journey has been a great deal of fun to follow and as much as you point out the character flaws, chances are that no one will know any different. Be proud and enjoy the moment all the while knowing that your daughter will be thrilled with your work :Love: . Well done!!! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:  I'd certainly like to be around in the backround when she receives this little jewel.


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Spin
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2013, 12:10:55 AM
They say Mona Lisa wasn't much of a kisser, but, she sure made a nice picture.
I'm proud of it too. Bet someday you Will go back and in no time it'll be spinning yarn. Like my ex wife you just gotta walk away for awhile. I'm gonna check on her in about another fifty years. You don't have to wait that long.

Yo Redneck Pal
Eric
Title: Re: Spin
Post by: mklotz on February 10, 2013, 12:14:30 AM
Like my ex wife you just gotta walk away for awhile. I'm gonna check on her in about another fifty years.

Chuckle.  Boy, I hear you.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2013, 12:31:02 AM
My present wife is much better. She told me she was leaving one time and I told her well just let me get my sh$t and I'll go with ya. I didn't know how good of a first wife I had till all the boys at the beer joint told me! :facepalm:

Yo Neck
Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: black85vette on February 10, 2013, 01:57:24 AM
Still an awesome project Zee.   As always the journey was a fun one to follow.   I think you have set the standard in posting with fun and flair and not just technical information.
Title: Spinster
Post by: NickG on February 10, 2013, 10:25:12 AM
It is awesome and not all models can work, it would have been a bonus if it did but some things can't be scaled down this far I guess, the smaller it is the more difficult it gets. I've seen some great looking models of machinery but its doubtful whether they can cut metal like a real machine.
Not a failure at all, a massive success.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 10, 2013, 01:43:09 PM
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your comments.

One other thing I wanted to mention...This was the first time I put thread in the flyer. As you can see, it goes through the end of the spindle, takes a 90 through a hole, and through a notch in the arm before it gets to the bobbin. When I wound it manually (using the knurled bolt at the other end) I could tell it took quite a bit of power to pull the thread. Much more than I expected and I knew there was no hope. The band was likely to slip.

Still, when I started this I'd said I'd be surprised if it worked. I was already surprised that the flywheel came out as well as it did and that the pedals were workable. I learned a lot.

To be honest, I still think (perhaps foolishly) that it can be made to work but it would take much more than I can give it and the chances are too low to warrant the try.

I'm stuck on what to do next. I have this little dynamo to do. And a vertical boiler. But I can't get an 0 gauge loco out of my head. And the choices! Cracker, Idris, Dacre...I welcome any suggestions.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2013, 02:04:57 PM
Zee, if you started with with the dynamo then you would want to build an engine to run it. If you build the boiler then you are gonna wanna build an engine for it to power. Engine build in future with either one. I'm not that up on locos, but I'd guess with it you would have to build both engine and boiler. Now you have me undecided. How bout a blind draw. Put each one on a piece of paper and draw from a hat. Still bet one day you will have the Spinster spinning. You will be sipping on a jelly jar and you'll go "HEY I got it (not Hey You) and it'll work. You'll see, that I'm not undecided on.

Yo Redneck
Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2013, 02:51:47 PM
All in all a fantastic project Zee. What a fun trip too...all 45 pages!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 10, 2013, 03:07:41 PM
Carl,  I would do like Eric said or just start building an engine to drive your Dynamo. You have Boiler, Engine and Dynamo to choice from. All will go together when complete. Throw them in a hat and pick one, as they are all fun builds.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 10, 2013, 05:14:40 PM
Carl,
I like it. And I enjoyed your descriptions of what and how as the build progressed. Thanks for the ride.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Dave Otto on February 10, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
Zee it's beautiful!
 :cheers:

Dave
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 10, 2013, 05:27:13 PM
Thanks all.

You're right of course. The dynamo needs an engine. The boiler needs an engine. My heart needs a loco.

As to the engine...I need some help there too. The project idea is this...
Boiler drives engine. Engine drives dynamo. Well that's straightforward no?
But I want the engine to also drive a mechanical gizmo or two I have in mind.
The first gizmo involves some levers. The thought is to drive them from a governor. But I have no idea of forces required or involved. I have to do some experimenting. But as you can see, a governor is involved.

It may turn out the governor is not the way to go and I'll have to come up with some other mechanical doo-hickey driven by the flywheel. But I still want a governor.

The second mechanical gizmo I'm not sure about yet. That may involve some kind of pump.
Point is...I'm going for some kind of diorama if you will.

Suggestions for an engine would be very welcome. Just keep in mind I'm limited to a mini-lathe and mini-mill.

I haven't decided to do one after another. Spinster got tiring at times so I may play around with multiple projects even though that means they'll take longer. But we're used to long threads aren't we?  ;D
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on February 10, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
Sounds like you need to build a steam-driven marble machine.  Then you could include all sorts of devices unconstrained by any considerations of utility or standard practice.  Rube Goldberg goes steam punk.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Don1966 on February 10, 2013, 05:42:55 PM
Carl, I suggest Ruby kouhoupt's forward and Aft Compound Steam engine. It had the ability of turning you Dynamo and other devices you have in mind. That engine is on my list of engines to build next. I will be using my PM Research Vertical boiler to drive it with also.  Just my suggestion.

Don
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 10, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
Sounds like you need to build a steam-driven marble machine.  Then you could include all sorts of devices unconstrained by any considerations of utility or standard practice.  Rube Goldberg goes steam punk.

Speaking of which...when I first decided to get into hobby machining, the first project I dreamed about was a manually driven pin-setting machine (bowling alley model). I soon realized the enormity of the challenge. The second was a old-style slot machine (one-armed bandit). That too went by way of "yeah right". I've thought about marble machines too. But nah.

I wish you hadn't reminded me of that pin-setting machine.

Thanks Don. I'll look into it. Got a link?
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on February 10, 2013, 06:00:46 PM
Quote
I wish you hadn't reminded me of that pin-setting machine.

Are there any other things you don't want me to remind you about?

I'm not sure but I think I remember a tableau in the Deutsches Museum.  It was a miniature, fully-operational model of a working coal mine, complete with winding gear, elevators, water pumps and functioning underground coal trains hauling the coal to the shaft.  Ever since seeing that I've wanted to add it to my imaginary train layout that looks something like the one in Hamburg - Miniatur Wunderland
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: fcheslop on February 10, 2013, 06:02:55 PM
I'm sure what ever you decide on it will be a fun journey with plenty of patter
Go for what you're heart desires :Lol:
I need to look for the loco Dacre, Cracker is a good build I'm looking at doing Wild Rose built by Dave Watkins the plans are on his site as are the ones for Idris
Just to play devils advocate how about a boat as that involves the brown stuff as well :Lol:
Best wishes
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
Just plain old driven butter churn. Baguette size dollops fresh. Then you can add the ice-cream freezer and popcorn popper. This could lead to ferris wheel and merry-go-round. A carnival before you know it.
You knew better than to ask us. We'll have way confused.

Eric
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 10, 2013, 06:46:05 PM
Ah yes. I should have known better.

Marv...I'm seeing the Deutches Museum again in May. Ooooo can't wait.
(I have many imaginary layouts too.)

Frazer...yes a boat is in my future. I've looking around at paddle steam ships. It would probably be a side wheeler so I can have more fun with it in the pool.

Eric...rats. A carousel is on my list too.

So many cool things to do!


Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Maryak on February 11, 2013, 01:29:42 AM
Carl,

1st up "The Spinster."  :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: .

2nd.......... Your multifunction project reminds me of my time at Defoe Shipbuilding Co., Bay City, Michigan. In the yard there were a series of mobile cranes, these were all steam driven and ran on a railway system.

So we have a steam driven device with lots of pulleys and levers, the craving for a loco is partially satisfied, finally the crane could be modified so that its' steam engine drives a dynamo which in turn drives a motor for the locomotion and motors for the slew, jib and hoist or combinations of steam and electricity to your heart's content.

Food for thought?

Best Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 11, 2013, 11:21:41 AM
Food for thought?

More like an 8 course meal.  :Lol:

Most of my dreams are like that though. Then I think diet and go for smaller portions.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 11, 2013, 07:16:04 PM
Maybe the first mechanical device for the engine to power is a water pump to keep the boiler up to level? There are also steam powered water pumps with no rotating parts; just a double acting steam piston at one end and a pump at the other end of a conrod.
Enjoy the dreaming; then enjoy the building.
Alan
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: mklotz on February 11, 2013, 07:26:18 PM
Carl,

1st up "The Spinster."  :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2: .

2nd.......... Your multifunction project reminds me of my time at Defoe Shipbuilding Co., Bay City, Michigan. In the yard there were a series of mobile cranes, these were all steam driven and ran on a railway system.

So we have a steam driven device with lots of pulleys and levers, the craving for a loco is partially satisfied, finally the crane could be modified so that its' steam engine drives a dynamo which in turn drives a motor for the locomotion and motors for the slew, jib and hoist or combinations of steam and electricity to your heart's content.

Food for thought?

Jerry Brown (RIP), a dear friend and one time member of our club, spent many years designing and building his own functional steam shovel cum drag line...

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/jbrown.htm

Everything on it is steam-powered - tracks, turning engine, feed pumps, winding engine, etc.  It's truly an astounding piece of work.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: sco on February 11, 2013, 09:11:04 PM
That crane is indeed 'A proper job'!

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 11, 2013, 11:42:53 PM
Nice ideas. What it makes me think of is a diorama that I can continually add to.
That's kind of how this one started but now I'll be thinking of the next one...already!
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: tvoght on February 12, 2013, 12:03:16 AM
Carl,
  I'm way late, but I wanted to congratulate you on the completion of Spinster. Not only a nice machining job, but tons of credit for designing it, too.
As for your next project, I hope you don't put it up for a vote, it should be something that inspires you alone.

--Tim
Title: Re: Spinster
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 12, 2013, 02:45:45 AM
Thanks Tim.

As for a vote...don't you know me yet? It's data. Then I'll go my way.  ;D
Because it 'will' have to inspire me.
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