Model Engine Maker

Supporting => Vehicles & Models => Topic started by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM

Title: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 01:58:26 AM
After I started the build, I wished I'd left space for an index.  Since I didn't, I'm adding it to the beginning of my intro post.  The actual introduction starts right after the build index. Please skip up there if you don't want to read the index :)


*1/15/2024: A newly updated BOM spreadsheet (Rev D) has been attached at the bottom of this post. - It has updates up through most of Chapter 29 (Sand Dome)*
*2/4/2023: A newly updated BOM spreadsheet (Rev C) has been attached at the bottom of this post. Has changes up through the first half of Chapter 23 (Boiler)*



Index of Kim's Kozo's Pennsy A3 Switcher Build:


Tender

Chapter 2: Tender Wheels
Chapter 2.1 - Tender Wheels - Reply 20 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg186561.html#msg186561)
Chapter 2.2 - Tender Axles - Reply 105 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg189853#msg189853)

Chapter 3: Tender Truck Frames
Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes - Reply 116 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190533.html#msg190533)
Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings - Reply 142 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg190980.html#msg190980)
Chapter 3.3 - Columns - Reply 157 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)
Chapter 3.4 - Bolsters and Side Bearings - Reply 170 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191521.html#msg191521)
Chapter 3.5 - Tie Bars and Arch Bars - Reply 201 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg193364.html#msg193364)
Chapter 3.6 - Coil Springs - Reply 234 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg195959.html#msg195959)

Chapter 4: Tender Frame
Chapter 4.1 - Side Sills - Reply 251 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg196863.html#msg196863)
Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill - Reply 262 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg198276.html#msg198276)
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster - Reply 296 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199037.html#msg199037)
Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar - Reply 298 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg199408.html#msg199408)
Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps - Reply 303 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200154.html#msg200154)
Chapter 4.6 – Step Brackets - Reply 323 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201312.html#msg201312)
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket - Reply 329 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg201612.html#msg201612)
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board - Reply 342 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg202387.html#msg202387)
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin - Reply 348 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg203066.html#msg203066)

Powder Coating the Trucks and Frames - Reply 360 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg203284.html#msg203284)

Chapter 5: Tender Tank
Chapter 5.1 – Tank Floor - Reply 421 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg205245.html#msg205245)
Chapter 5.2 – Side Plates - Reply 447 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg206540.html#msg206540)
Chapter 5.3 – Side Corner Members - Reply 463 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg208179.html#msg208179)
Chapter 5.4 – Bottom Horseshoe Member and Top Horseshoe Member - Reply 475 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg208566.html#msg208566)
Chapter 5.5 – Verge Board - Reply 480 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg209328.html#msg209328)
Chapter 5.6 – Vertical Board - Reply 489 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg209836.html#msg209836)
                       Vertical Board Revisited - Reply 507 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg210779.html#msg210779)
Chapter 5.7 – Front Plates - Reply 503 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg210437.html#msg210437)
                       Front Plates Continued - Reply 518 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg211772.html#msg211772)
Chapter 5.8 – Top Plate - Reply 528 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg212080.html#msg212080)
Chapter 5.9 – Rear Corner Member - Reply 546 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg212708.html#msg212708)
Chapter 5.10 – Soft Soldering and Filing the Bottom - Reply 552 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg213227.html#msg213227)
Chapter 5.11 – Headlight Baseplate and Headlight Base - Reply 573 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg213687.html#msg213687)
Chapter 5.12 – Coal Stopper - Reply 589 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg214927#msg214927)
Chapter 5.14 – Dummy Side Plates - Reply 599 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg215215.html#msg215215)

Chapter 6: Tender Manhole
Chapter 6.1 – Mounting Plate, Manhole Plate, and Lug - Reply 613 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216357.html#msg216357)
                       Manhole Plate - Reply 619 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216689.html#msg216689)
                       Lug - Reply 629 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216977.html#msg216977)
Chapter 6.2 – Manhole - Reply 620 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg216690.html#msg216690)
Chapter 6.3 – Manhole Cover - Reply 634 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg217083.html#msg217083)
Chapter 6.4 – Hinges and Pin - Reply 637 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg217389.html#msg217389)

Chapter 7: Steps and Handrails
Chapter 7.1 – Steps - Reply 641 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg218209.html#msg218209)
Chapter 7.2 – Handrailing - Reply 644 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg218850.html#msg218850)
Chapter 7.3 – Handholds - Reply 661 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg219735.html#msg219735)
Chapter 7.4 – Handholds - Reply 673 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg220900.html#msg220900)

Chapter 8: Hand Pump
Chapter 8.1 – Pump body - Reply 683 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg221522.html#msg221522)
Chapter 8.2 – Plunger - Reply 710 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg222297.html#msg222297)
Chapter 8.3 – O-Ring Retainer - Reply 712 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg222299.html#msg222299)
Chapter 8.4 – Plug - Reply 724 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg222750.html#msg222750)
Chapter 8.5 – Suction Valve - Reply 725 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg222751.html#msg222751)
                       Suction Valve Screen Retainer - Reply 742 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg223099.html#msg223099)
Chapter 8.6 – Link - Reply 731 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg222858.html#msg222858)
Chapter 8.7 – Lever - Reply 746 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg223103.html#msg223103)
Chapter 8.8 – Handle - Reply 752 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg223722.html#msg223722)
Chapter 8.9 – Pins - Reply 753 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg223723.html#msg223723)

Chapter 9: Tender Piping
Chapter 9.1 – Drain Pipe, Drain Plug, Suction Stud, Delivery Stud, Suction Strainer and Nut - Reply 760 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg223990.html#msg223990)
                       Drain Plug - Reply 761 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg224581.html#msg224581)
                       Suction Stud and Delivery Stud - Reply 761 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg224581.html#msg224581)
                       Suction Strainer and Nut - Reply 767 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225491.html#msg225491)
Chapter 9.2 – Nipple Joints and Nipples - Reply 768 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225492.html#msg225492)
Chapter 9.3 – Union Nuts - Reply 768 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225492.html#msg225492)
Chapter 9.4 – Pipe Tip - Reply 771 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225874.html#msg225874)
Chapter 9.5 – Pipe Clamps and Tube Clamps - Reply 771 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225874.html#msg225874)
Chapter 9.6 – Rubber Tubes - Reply 771 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg225874.html#msg225874)
Chapter 9.7 – Bending a Copper Tube - Reply 774 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg226159.html#msg226159)
Chapter 9.8 - Assembling the Tender - Reply 783 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg226253.html#msg226253)
                       Adding Lettering to the Tank - Reply 802 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227115.html#msg227115)


Engine

Chapter 10: Main Frame
Chapter 10.1 – Side Frames - Reply 793 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg226420.html#msg226420)
Chapter 10.2 – Pedestal Braces - Reply 818 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227303.html#msg227303)
Chapter 10.3 – Rear Axle Boxes - Reply 824 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227344.html#msg227344)
Chapter 10.4 – Front Bumper and Footplate - Reply 839 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227481.html#msg227481)
Chapter 10.5 – Remaining Work for Side Frames - Reply 832 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227401.html#msg227401)
Chapter 10.6 – Corssties and Pins - Reply 851 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227813.html#msg227813)
Chapter 10.7 – Front Coupler Pocket - Reply 853 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg228184.html#msg228184)
Chapter 10.8 – Foot Board - Reply 866 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg228528.html#msg228528)
Chapter 10.9 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar Pin - Reply 873 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg228789.html#msg228789)

Chapter 11: Axle Boxes
Chapter 11.1 – Front Axle Boxes and Axle Box Caps - Reply 878 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg229540.html#msg229540)
Chapter 11.2 – Bushings - Reply 886 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg229657.html#msg229657)

Chapter 12: Driving Wheels
Chapter 12.1 – Driving Wheels - Reply 891 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg230160.html#msg230160)
Chapter 12.2 – Driving Wheel Axles - Reply 972 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg233905.html#msg233905)
Chapter 12.3 – Pump Eccentric and Lubricator Eccentric - Reply 973 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg233906.html#msg233906)
Chapter 12.4 – Crankpins - Reply 974 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg233907.html#msg233907)
Chapter 12.5 – Side Rod Pins - Reply 978 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg234207.html#msg234207)
Chapter 12.6 – Quartering - Reply 983 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg234318.html#msg234318)

Chapter 13: Side Rods and Main Rods
Chapter 13.1 – Side Rods - Reply 995 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg234416#msg234416)
Chapter 13.2 – Main Rods - Reply 1026 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg236221.html#msg236221)
Chapter 13.3 – Bushings and Spacers - Reply 1042 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg236543.html#msg236543)
Chapter 13.4 – Cotters and Bolts - Reply 1049 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg236623.html#msg236623)

Chapter 14: Cylinders
Chapter 14.1 – Cylinders - Reply 1055 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg237405.html#msg237405)
Chapter 14.2 – Steam Chests - Reply 1095 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238096.html#msg238096)
Chapter 14.3 – Steam Chest Covers - Reply 1111 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238261.html#msg238261)
Chapter 14.4 – Steam Chest Cover Casings - Reply 1123 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238599.html#msg238599)
Chapter 14.5 – Rear Cylinder Heads - Reply 1131 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238723.html#msg238723)
Chapter 14.6 – Front Cylinder Heads - Reply 1138 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238964.html#msg238964)
Chapter 14.7 – Cylinder Head Covers - Reply 1144 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg238999.html#msg238999)
Chapter 14.8 – Piston Rod  Bushings and Valve Stem Bushings - Reply 1150 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg239036.html#msg239036)
Chapter 14.9 – Bolts and Nuts - Reply 1151 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg239075.html#msg239075)
Chapter 14.10 – Tee - Reply 1162 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg239404.html#msg239404)
Chapter 14.11 – Steam Deflector and Exhaust Deflector - Reply 1204 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg239893.html#msg239893)

Chapter 15: Pistons and Crossheads
Chapter 15.1 – Pistons - Reply 1210 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg240995.html#msg240995)
Chapter 15.2 – Piston Rods and Pins - Reply 1223 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241158.html#msg241158)
Chapter 15.3 – Nuts - Reply 1223 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241158.html#msg241158)
Chapter 15.4 – Crossheads - Reply 1228 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241233.html#msg241233)
                       Crossheads Continued - Reply 1240 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241373.html#msg241373)
Chapter 15.5 – Crosshead Pins - Reply 1232 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241275.html#msg241275)
Chapter 15.6 – Slippers - Reply 1235 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241328.html#msg241328)
Chapter 15.7 – Assembly - Reply 1286 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241850.html#msg241850)

Chapter 16: Guide Yokes
Chapter 16.1 – Tie Plate - Reply 1300 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg241958.html#msg241958)
Chapter 16.2 – Guide Yokes - Reply 1320 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242454.html#msg242454)
                       Guide Yokes Continued - Reply 1337 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242582.html#msg242582)
Chapter 16.3 – Guides - Reply 1332 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242551.html#msg242551)

Chapter 17: Valve Gear
Chapter 17.1 – Valves - Reply 1370 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242857.html#msg242857)
Chapter 17.2 – Valve Nuts - Reply 1389 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg243107.html#msg243107)
Chapter 17.3 – Valve Spindles - Reply 1397 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg243394.html#msg243394)
Chapter 17.4 – Valve Spindle Yokes - Reply 1399 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg243724.html#msg243724)
Chapter 17.5 – Combination Levers - Reply 1404 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg243991.html#msg243991)
Chapter 17.6 – Union Links - Reply 1412 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg244085.html#msg244085)
Chapter 17.7 – Link Brackets - Reply 1417 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg244387.html#msg244387)
Chapter 17.8 – Radius Rods - Reply 1422 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg244527.html#msg244527)
Chapter 17.9 – Link Blocks - Reply 1427 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg244610.html#msg244610)
Chapter 17.10 – Expansion Links and Trunnion Plates - Reply 1438 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg245108.html#msg245108)
Chapter 17.11 – Link Brackets - Reply 1453 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg245494.html#msg245494)
Chapter 17.12 – Return Cranks - Reply 1462 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg245775.html#msg245775)
Chapter 17.13 – Pins - Reply 1473 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg246269.html#msg246269)
Chapter 17.14 – Setting Return Cranks - Reply 1475 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg246394.html#msg246394)
Chapter 17.15 – Eccentric Rods - Reply 1476 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg246395.html#msg246395)
Chapter 17.16 – Bushings - Reply 1495 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg246688.html#msg246688)

Chapter 18: Reversing Gear
Chapter 18.1 – Running Boards - Reply 1551 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg249645.html#msg249645)
Chapter 18.2 – Support Plates and Brackets - Reply 1566 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg249906.html#msg249906)
Chapter 18.3 – Stand and Quadrant - Reply 1573 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250084.html#msg250084)
Chapter 18.4 – Reverse Lever - Reply 1603 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250370.html#msg250370)
Chapter 18.5 – Latch Lever - Reply 1610 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250478.html#msg250478)
Chapter 18.6 – Spring - Reply 1611 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250479.html#msg250479)
Chapter 18.7 – Pin and Collar - Reply 1619 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250513.html#msg250513)
Chapter 18.8 – Reach Rod - Reply 1625 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250549.html#msg250549)
Chapter 18.9 – Reverse Shaft - Reply 1630 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250674.html#msg250674)
Chapter 18.10 – Reach Rod Arm and Reverse Arm - Reply 1647 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250800.html#msg250800)
Chapter 18.11 – Reverse Shaft Bearings - Reply 1655 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg250845.html#msg250845)
Chapter 18.12 – Radius Rod Hangers - Reply 1661 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg251075.html#msg251075)
Chapter 18.13 – Pins - Reply 1662 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg251076.html#msg251076)
Chapter 18.14 – Setting Reverse Arms - Reply 1667 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg251212.html#msg251212)
Chapter 18.15 – Setting Reverse Gear and Cutting Notches - Reply 1667 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg251212.html#msg251212)

Chapter 19: Cylindar Cocks
Chapter 19.1 – Cock Bodies - Reply 1686 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg252782.html#msg252782)
Chapter 19.2 – Cock Plugs - Reply 1698 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg252936.html#msg252936)
Chapter 19.3 – Links - Reply 1699 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg252937.html#msg252937)
Chapter 19.4 – Arm Shaft - Reply 1700 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg252941.html#msg252941)
Chapter 19.5 – Arm Shaft Bearings - Reply 1700 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg252941.html#msg252941)
Chapter 19.6 – Arms - Reply 1713 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253086.html#msg253086)
Chapter 19.7 – Collar - Reply 1720 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253176.html#msg253176)
Chapter 19.8 – Front Bracket - Reply 1723 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253210.html#msg253210)
Chapter 19.9 – Rear Bracket - Reply 1724 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253237.html#msg253237)
Chapter 19.10 – Lever - Reply 1734 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253269.html#msg253269)
Chapter 19.11 – Reach Rod - Reply 1742 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253297.html#msg253297)
Chapter 19.12 – Link - Reply 1743 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253298.html#msg253298)
Chapter 19.13 – Pins - Reply 1747 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg253320.html#msg253320)

Chapter 20: Feedwater Pump
Chapter 20.1 – Pump Body - Reply 1799 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254361.html#msg254361)
Chapter 20.2 – Fittings - Reply 1812 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254458.html#msg254458)
Chapter 20.3 – O-Ring Retainer - Reply 1816 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254501.html#msg254501)
Chapter 20.4 – Plunger - Reply 1816 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254501.html#msg254501)
Chapter 20.5 – Pin - Reply 1827 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254562.html#msg254562)
Chapter 20.6 – Eccentric Rod - Reply 1832 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254843.html#msg254843)
Chapter 20.7 – Eccentric Strap - Reply 1835 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254951.html#msg254951)

Chapter 21: Lubricator
Chapter 21.1 – Pump Housing - Reply 1843 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255082.html#msg255082)
Chapter 21.2 – Cover - Reply 1864 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255206.html#msg255206)
Chapter 21.3 – Pump Body - Reply 1867 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255256.html#msg255256)
Chapter 21.4 – Plug and Nut - Reply 1872 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255329.html#msg255329)
Chapter 21.5 – Plunger - Reply 1874 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255333.html#msg255333)
Chapter 21.6 – Crank - Reply 1877 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255371.html#msg255371)
Chapter 21.7 – Ratchet Wheel - Reply 1880 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255453.html#msg255453)
Chapter 21.8 – Bushing and Nut - Reply 1886 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255505.html#msg255505)
Chapter 21.9 – Pawl Brackt and Lever - Reply 1887 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255561.html#msg255561)
Chapter 21.10 – Spring Pawls - Reply 1890 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255607.html#msg255607)
Chapter 21.11 – Eccentric Strap - Reply 1911 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg255924.html#msg255924)

Chapter 22: Grate and Ashpan
Chapter 22.1 – Grate - Reply 1924 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256043.html#msg256043)
Chapter 22.2 – Grate  Supports - Reply 1938 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256141.html#msg256141)
Chapter 22.3 – Ashpan - Reply 1949 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256283.html#msg256283)
Chapter 22.4 – Ashpan Latch and Spring Hanger - Reply 1956 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256348.html#msg256348)
Chapter 22.5 – Pins - Reply 1957 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256349.html#msg256349)
Chapter 22.6 – Spring - Reply 1958 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg256350.html#msg256350)

Chapter 23: Boiler
Chapter 23.3 – Formers and Backing Plates - Reply 1986 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg258251.html#msg258251)
Chapter 23.4 – Forming - Reply 2011 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg258478.html#msg258478)
Chapter 23.5 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Front Tube Sheet - Reply 2031 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg258590.html#msg258590)
Chapter 23.6 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Backhead - Reply 2082 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg258986.html#msg258986)
Chapter 23.7 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Firebox Sheets - Reply 2161 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg260068.html#msg260068)
Chapter 23.8 – Machining and Silver Soldering the throat Sheet - Reply 2183 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg260257.html#msg260257)
Chapter 23.9 – Rolling the Shell - Reply 2205 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg260470.html#msg260470)
Chapter 23.10 – Silver Soldering the Shell - Reply 2268 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg261411.html#msg261411)
Chapter 23.11 – Truing and Facing the Shell - Reply 2302 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg261891.html#msg261891)
Chapter 23.12 – Silver Soldering the Bushings and Studs - Reply 2304 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg261893.html#msg261893)
Chapter 23.13 – Silver Soldering the Steam Dome Base - Reply 2326 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg262449.html#msg262449)
Chapter 23.14 – Bending the Outside Firebox Sheet - Reply 2383 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263019.html#msg263019)
Chapter 23.15 – Silver Soldering the Outside Firebox Sheet
                           Making the parts  - Reply 2405 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263229.html#msg263229)
                           Soldering - Reply 2450 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263861.html#msg263861)
Chapter 23.16 – Firebox Sheet
                           Making the parts  - Reply 2438 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263539.html#msg263539)
                           Shaping - Reply 2455 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263937.html#msg263937)
Chapter 23.17 – Silver Soldering the Tubes - Reply 2494 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg264183.html#msg264183)
Chapter 23.18 – Silver Soldering the Tubes - Reply 2516 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg264389#msg264389)
Chapter 23.19 – Silver Soldering the Foundation Ring - Reply 2540 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg264540.html#msg264540)
Chapter 23.20 – Silver Soldering the Throat Sheet Staybolts - Reply 2609 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265000.html#msg265000)
Chapter 23.21 – Silver Soldering the Backhead
                           Blower Pipe - Reply 2507 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg264319.html#msg264319)
                           Soldering the Backhead - Reply 2610 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265002.html#msg265002)
Chapter 23.22 – Silver Soldering the Staybolts
                           Stay Bolts - Reply 2427 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263350.html#msg263350)
                           Soldering the Staybolts- Reply 2616 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265066.html#msg265066)
Chapter 23.23 – Silver Soldering the Front Tube Sheet - Reply 2648 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265248.html#msg265248)
Chapter 23.24 – Hydrostatic Testing - Reply 2664 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265346.html#msg265346)

Chapter 24: Fire Door
Chapter 24.1 – Fire Door - Reply 2750 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265894.html#msg265894)
Chapter 24.2 – Door Shield - Reply 2768 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266000.html#msg266000)
Chapter 24.3 – Spacers and Pin - Reply 2770 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266094.html#msg266094)
Chapter 24.4 – Spring Latch - Reply 2774 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266126.html#msg266126)

Chapter 25: Smokebox
Chapter 25.1 – Smokebox - Reply 2778 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266147.html#msg266147)
Chapter 25.2 – Smokebox Door - Reply 2900 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266806.html#msg266806)
Chapter 25.3 – Door Hinges - Reply 2983 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.new#new)
Chapter 25.4 – Door Clamps - Reply 2991 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg267545.html#msg267545)
Chapter 25.5 – Number Plate - Reply 3007 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg267693.html#msg267693)
Chapter 25.6 – Handrail Brackets - Reply 3031 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg267815.html#msg267815)
Chapter 25.7 – Handrail - Reply 3066 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268120.html#msg268120)
Chapter 25.8 – Stack - Reply 3085 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268224.html#msg268224)
Chapter 25.9 – Cone - Reply 3119 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268599.html#msg268599)
Chapter 25.10 – Headlight Bracket - Reply 3125 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268716.html#msg268716)
Chapter 25.11 – Smokebox Saddle - Reply 3133 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268786.html#msg268786)
Chapter 25.12 – Bottom Cover - Reply 3161 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268910.html#msg268910)
Chapter 25.13 – Exhaust Nozzle - Reply 3168 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268935.html#msg268935)
Chapter 25.14 – Steam Piping, Blower Pipe, and Union Nut - Reply 3170 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg269003.html#msg269003)
Chapter 25.15 – Deadweight - Reply 3183 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg269072.html#msg269072)

Chapter 26: Headlights
Chapter 26.1 – Housing - Reply 3199 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg269442.html#msg269442)
Chapter 26.2 – Top Covers, Rear Covers, Baseplates, and Glass Holders - Reply 3226 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg270507.html#msg270507)
Chapter 26.3 – Reflectors - Reply 3292 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg271358.html#msg271358)
Chapter 26.4 – Glasses and Minature Bulbs - Reply 3194 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg269321.html#msg269321)

Chapter 27: Boiler Jacket and Handrails
Chapter 27.1 – Boiler Jacket - Reply 3312 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg271746.html#msg271746)
Chapter 27.2 – Straps - Reply 3336 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg271941.html#msg271941)
Chapter 27.3 – Handrail Brackets - Reply 3346 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272150.html#msg272150)
Chapter 27.4 – Handrailss - Reply 3357 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272267.html#msg272267)

Chapter 28: Throttle and Safety Valves
Chapter 28.1 – Throttle - Reply 3365 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272528.html#msg272528)
Chapter 28.2 – Trunnion - Reply 3385 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272876.html#msg272876)
Chapter 28.3 – Gland Nut and Nut - Reply 3400 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272924.html#msg272924)
Chapter 28.4 – Valve Stem and Fork End - Reply 3404 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272942.html#msg272942)
Chapter 28.5 – Link and Lever - Reply 3411 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg272989.html#msg272989)
Chapter 28.6 – Gasket - Reply 3425 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273249.html#msg273249)
Chapter 28.7 – Springs - Reply 3420 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273127.html#msg273127)
Chapter 28.8 – Valve Bodies - Reply 3433 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273310.html#msg273310)
Chapter 28.9 – Valve Plugs, Valve Bonets and Nuts - Reply 3445 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273383.html#msg273383)
Chapter 28.10 – Snifting Valve - Reply 3473 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg273529#msg273529)

Chapter 29: Steam Dome, Sandbox, and Bell
Chapter 29.1 – Steam Dome - Reply 3506 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273728.html#msg273728)
Chapter 29.2 – Sandbox Saddle, Sandbox and Cap - Reply 3571 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg274323.html#msg274323)
Chapter 29.3 – Water Plug and Gasket and Bolts - Reply 3622 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg275343.html#msg275343)
Chapter 29.4 – Sandpipes and Screws - Reply 3630 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg275588.html#msg275588)
Chapter 29.5 – Bell - Reply 3686 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg276301.html#msg276301)
Chapter 29.6 – Bell Stand - Reply 3704 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg276623.html#msg276623)
Chapter 29.7 – Tounge, Cap Nut and Lever - Reply 3738 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg276961.html#msg276961)

Chapter 30: Manifold and Whistle
Chapter 30.1 – Manifold - Reply 3764 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277203.html#msg277203)
Chapter 30.2 – Manifold Plug and Gasket - Reply 3778 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277327.html#msg277327)
Chapter 30.3 – Whistle Valve Push Pin - Reply 3786 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277421.html#msg277421)
Chapter 30.4 – Cap and O-ring Retainer - Reply 3793 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277443.html#msg277443)
Chapter 30.5 – Spring and Plug - Reply 3800 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277500.html#msg277500)
Chapter 30.6 – Whistle - Reply 3806 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277635.html#msg277635)
Chapter 30.7 – Pressure Gauge Tubing - Reply 3817 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277778.html#msg277778)

Chapter 31: Water Gauge and Valves
Chapter 31.1 – Water Gauge - Reply 3830 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg277878.html#msg277878)
Chapter 31.2 – Plug and Nut - Reply 3848 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg278050.html#msg278050)
Chapter 31.3 – Glass Tube and Gland Nuts - Reply 3855 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg278090.html#msg278090)



Welcome everyone, to my introductory post for my new build of Kozo’s Pennsy A3 Switcher!

I’m sure this is no surprise to anyone since I’ve been talking about it, asking questions about it, and doing some pretty serious planning on it for well over a year now.  But, this is my formal intro to my build thread.  So, if you’re too disappointed, please feel free to skip on past to the next post.  I promise not to be offended.

As an intro post, here is my obligatory photo of what I’m shooting for.  This is the cover photo from Kozo Hiraoka’s book “The Pennsylvania A3 Switcher”. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-1-DSC_4895.jpg)

The final engine will be 38” long, 10” high, and 7” wide.  It is a  3.5” gauge, 1:16 scale (3/4” to a foot) model of an 0-4-0 Pennsylvania Switcher Type A3.  The drivers are 3.25” diameter and the cylinder bore is 7/8” with a stroke of 1-1/4".  It will have Walshaerts type valve gear, will be coal-fired with a running pressure of 100psi.  Engine plus tender will weigh-in at about 62 lbs.

So, this will be quite a monster for me!  More than double the size of the steam tractor I did. And a MUCH more serious steam project than I’ve taken on in the past.  But I’m ready and very excited for the challenge!  And isn’t that half the battle right there? (He says with naïve optimism :)).

With that lengthy introduction, let me now introduce you to my BOM spreadsheet.  Kozo’s book is amazingly complete and gives excellent instructions on all his fabrication techniques.  But!  It does not include a bill of materials!  So, what does any self-respecting anal-retentive engineering-type do?  Create a spreadsheet, of course.
Last updated: January of 2024

I’ve attached my spreadsheet to this post.

If anyone is ever interested in doing this build, I would think having the BOM available would be helpful.  I went through the book, entered every piece of stock as specified by Kozo, broken down by section and part number within the section (and often sub-element of a part within a section).  It includes all fasteners, jigs and the sacrificial screws Kozo uses to hold parts together while silver soldering.  That’s the first sheet. It's labeled “A3 Switcher BOM” and has something like 850 unique lines.

The second sheet is the Materials List.  This has one entry for each type & size of material used and summarized the total number of inches (for bar, rod, hex) or square inches (for sheet material) that are needed for ALL parts using that type of material.  it has more than 350 lines, but only 260 something of them ended up being used in my final version of the BOM.

The actual materials listed are based on “My Material”, not on the type originally specified by Kozo.  He did almost everything with 360 Brass.  I substituted a lot of 1018 (CRS) or 12L14, or even Stainless in some places.  But I did leave Kozo’s originally specified material listed on the first sheet.  And someone could move to using that material if they wanted to.

The completion of my BOM spreadsheet took me almost a year of background work, so was no small task in itself.

Late last week I did an inventory of my stock on hand against this Materials List.  Then I entered that into the spreadsheet and it told me how much of what I needed to purchase.  After that, I went through the spreadsheet and did some more substitutions and combining of lines.  For example, if I need 1” of 5/16” brass, I’d look at changing it to 12L14 or if it needed to be brass (because it comes into contact with water) I would just combine it with the 3/8” brass.  I made some fancy columns to help me combine lines.  Not intuitive, but if anyone's interested I'd be happy to explain it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-2-DSC_4862.jpg)

Last weekend, I spent hours placing a big metal order.  I ended up going mainly with On Line Metals, and with Speedy Metals.  On Line Metals generally had better pricing on 1018, Stainless, and Brass, whereas Speedy Metals had better prices on 12L14 and had a larger selection of sizes of 1018 than On Line Metals. Unfortunately, shipping from Speedy Metals is 2x more than On Line Metals because they are on the far side of the country from me. But I tried to get it all these two larger orders.  Shipping hurt, but it could have been worse!

And yesterday a bunch of my metal started showing up! This was the bulk of the order from On Line Metals.  Speedy Metals won’t arrive till next week.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-3-DSC_4869.jpg)

After opening the containers and comparing to the shipping invoice (all correct, BTW) here’s what I’ve gotten so far.  And this is probably about two-thirds of what I ordered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-4-DSC_4873.jpg)

In addition, there’s a bunch of fasteners, non-metal parts and various new tools I’ll need for this build.  I also kept a list of tools I needed to order for this build.  That’s also one of the sheets in my spreadsheet.  Here’s what’s arrived from that list so far:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-5-DSC_4907.jpg)

Kozo uses a TON of random sized threads in his build.  He uses 5-40 and 5-44.  He uses 8-32 and 8-36.  I considered standardizing on taps I already had but decided it would be fun to get some new taps anyway.  And I figure he had some reason for using the finer pitched threads, so why not follow his lead, since I’m game for buying another half dozen taps and dies :)

Then one other thing I bought for this build, and am just a little too excited about, is a set of letter & number punches.  I have a very cheap set (cost $10 at a harbor-freight look-alike place) but they are so cheap that they make poor letters. And any of them I’ve used more than once are already getting so flat it's hard to read what gets punched.  This is a set of CH Hansen Letter and Number Punches.  It cost significantly more and had quite good reviews with people saying the punches held up under actual use.  And I’ll say they look much better than my cheapy punches.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001a-Introduction-6-DSC_4908.jpg)
Kozo recommends punching identifying numbers & marks into each piece so that you can get it re-assembled back into the same spot it was designed for. I'm going to try and do that too.


So, wish me well on my next multi-year voyage in the world of Steam Model Engineering!

Thanks,
Kim

*Rev B BOM Update*
I've updated the Bill Of Materials now (as of 12-21-22).  This version fixes several mistakes I found where I had the wrong qty of items required or an incorrect dimension or part.  I also fixed some material issues where I'd specified putting 1018 instead of stainless steel in areas touching water/steam.  And I updated a few places where I used different material than what I'd initially specified.

I've only completed up through chapter 22 in Kozo's book and am currently working on the boiler (Chapter 23.)  So only the first half or so of the materials list has been verified.  Regardless, there are undoubtedly many errors still even in the 'verified' half of the BOM, so consult my list at your own risk.

You'll want to make your own determination of materials and what stock to use anyway, so you'll need to review the entire thing.  But please feel free to use this as a starting point if it is of any help to you.

Kim

Rev C of the BOM now includes the Bell Stud for the boiler shell. And I added a change log to the BOM (sheet labeled 'Change Log'.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 19, 2018, 02:27:37 AM
This is exciting Kim!!!  I am along for the ride as always!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 02:30:31 AM
Ooohhh!  Excellent!!!


Great prep work, and nice pile of future swarf. These big projects seem too daunting at first, but one part at a time and its a lot of fun to see come together.


Really looking forward to seeing you go on this one.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 19, 2018, 03:21:24 AM
Kim..........this is going to be another great build thread to watch!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 19, 2018, 03:27:08 AM
 :whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 05:25:12 AM
Thanks guys, it will be great having you along for the build!

:whoohoo: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :whoohoo:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I've had that book on the shelf right above my desk for over 10 years.

As I age I think of selling it on.

 :cheers:

Pete
Pete,
You should start your own Pennsy Switcher now!  We could do parallel builds!  Wouldn't that be fun?
I'd love to see you do that :)  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 19, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Well I'm on board too, this should be another great ride.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on October 19, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
 8)

I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 19, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
Hello Kim

I must admit that I really haven't really commented much in your excellent tractor build (there has been plenty others, so not much need).

I do make BOM for the products we make at work, but - WOW - what a list and amount of work you have put into this one  :praise2:

I will certainly follow this build too  :cheers:  :popcorn:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 19, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Very cool Kim, I will be looking forward to following your progress.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on October 19, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
Off to a great start Kim. I'll be riding along on this one also.

Whiskey
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 02:44:34 PM
Thanks everyone!
Yeah, I'm pretty pumped about this one.   :cartwheel:


I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost  :paranoia: I prefer to just tick that I have it available 

I also like to mark off the date I complete each part - it shows how quickly the engine came together (or how slowly/how long the build gaps were  :facepalm2: )
It did give me pause; putting the cost of materials in the sheet.  But it also helped me make some material trade-offs.  Some of the columns I've hidden were a comparison between a "Mostly Brass" model and my hodge-podge version. I hid the columns because I stopped keeping it up at some point and I didn't want to spend the time to fix it.  I figure I saved about 35-40% in cost by avoiding gratuitous use of brass :).  Don't get me wrong - there will still be a lot of brass!  But dramatically less than Kozo uses!


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on October 19, 2018, 06:40:22 PM
Hey Kim - i am checking in too!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

I imagine Kozo used brass because it is easier to machine than steel. Especially with small hobby machines. But there's nothing wrong about using other materials if it makes sense or if it doesn't need to be brass.

Now i guess we have to wait for your first swarf pictures.  ;D

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2018, 08:26:27 PM
Thanks Florian!

Yeah, it shouldn't be too long before I start making Pennsy Switcher swarf.  Still a bit more on the steam tractor to finish up, but that's getting every so close!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2018, 08:55:03 PM
Swarf!

Swarf!

Swarf!

And tractor running video too, of course!   :Lol:
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ShopShoe on October 20, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Jo said:

"I do parts lists for my engine as well but I decided it was best not to write down how much it cost"

When I was restoring cars one of my mentors said:

"Never, NEVER keep track of what it costs or the time involved: It will make you want to do something different."

ShopShoe (Still only keeping track some of the time.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on October 20, 2018, 09:52:55 PM
Kim,   I'm really looking forward to a video of your tractor running......Regards         Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 22, 2018, 04:01:12 AM
Thanks Terry, me too!  I posted a bunch of pictures of it today, but no steaming video. Not yet anyway :)


Over the weekend I did a little more preparatory work toward my new steam locomotive project.

One thing I did was to change the oil in the lathe.  That took a while and was a messy job.  But its been needing to be done, so now its done. And it gets charged to the Pennsy :)

I also checked in some additional materials.  Metals On Line shipped the Bronze stock I needed, plus the 3/4" copper tube to be used in the boiler.  That big hunk of bronze (2” diameter on the left) is for the cylinders. It wasn't cheap! But it's still about half the price of the castings.  And this way I can screw up several times and still have extra material left over!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-1-DSC_4916.jpg)

Another thing I did was to experiment on how to make copies of the parts drawings.  I like to have copies of the drawings so that I can have them with me at the machines and see the dimensions I’m working toward.  And of course, I don’t expect the book to remain pristine, but I don’t really want to have it close to production where oil and yuck can get splashed on it.

For other builds I’ve just photocopied the main drawings.  But it can be difficult to hold a book on a photocopier. And with this one, there’s literally hundreds of drawings I’ll want to print out over the course of the build.  So my solution to this problem was to see if I could find a scanning app for my phone that would work. And as it turns out, CamScanner seems to do a pretty good job. You take a picture of the page you want to ‘scan’, and then outline the section of the image you want to extract.  Based on the outline, it rotates and scales the picture to fix keystoning and other image artifacts. Then it filters out the lighting variations to make a nice, clean, black & white image and converts it to a PDF. Here are a few samples that I’ve tried:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-2-DSC_4919.jpg)

It’s still not like having CAD drawings, but it’s a heck of a lot easier than photocopying each page, that’s for sure. Here’s what they look like printed out.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-3-DSC_4986.jpg)

The last thing I did today was to go through the pile of screws, fasteners, and miscellaneous hardware and put them in my nifty dividers for little parts.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/001b-Introduction-4-DSC_4984.jpg)

You were supposed to be able to see that these are full of various screws and such, but the glare on the plano boxes seems to prevent you from seeing inside. Trust me, there’s a lot of goodies in there now :)

One more significant shipment of metal this week (hopefully tomorrow) and I should be ready to launch forth!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on October 22, 2018, 12:37:56 PM
Hi Kim,

Looks like a great start to another amazing build.  I will be following.

If you use an iPhone, the new "Notes" Ap has a great feature to incorporate a document using the camera.  It squares up the document and everything.  You can save it then print it.  Incredibly easy to use and seems to give a good result.

MJM460
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 22, 2018, 02:14:04 PM
Kim, thanks for the   tip on CamScanner. I can see where that would be very useful. With my own 2D drawings I can save them as a .pdf file and that works. This sounds ideal for getting other printed material onto the phone though. WIll be checking that out.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 02:10:45 AM
Chapter 2.1 Tender Wheels

What is the saying?  “The journey of 1000 shop sessions begins with the first swarf.”
Or something like that, right? :)

Today I started cutting metal on my Pennsy Switcher!

Earlier in the week the last of my big shipments came in (this one from Speedy Metals).  It had all my big 12L14 bar, which is what I needed to get started.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-1-DSC_4988.jpg)

Because the 2 3/8” round 12L14 stock was destined to be tender wheels.  I needed to slice off eight 1/2" pucks.  That little HF saw really earned his keep today!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-2-DSC_4991.jpg)

And here they are.  All eight of them.  These are going to become the wheels for the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5000.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002a-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5004.jpg)

Not a ton of progress, but it’s a first step.

I also cleaned my assembly table, as you can see in the pictures here.  Something to keep me busy while the saw was working away.  There’s still a little more ‘between project’ cleaning to be done, but it will happen over time.

Now, to make those pucks look like train wheels!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 28, 2018, 02:25:01 AM
Great start, going to be watching along! You are right, its a big project, but just a lot of manageable small parts.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 02:49:55 AM
Hot dang, first cuts.

Now I'm very curious: why 3.5" gauge?

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 05:06:33 AM
Why 3.5" gauge?  Good question Pete!

Well, partly because that's what Kozo's plans are for. He does show modifications for a 7.5" gauge (1.5" scale) model.  But I opted for the 1:16 scale (3/4") model, which is big enough to be fun, but small enough to be nearly manageable.  It will be over 3' long, and weigh more than 60 pounds.  Luckily, that will be in two smaller pieces - the tender and the engine.  But still a sizable chunk.  And another reason is the cost of the materials.  I opted for less expensive materials than Kozo specified (i.e. I'm not using all brass) but even with that, I had to save up quite a while to afford my recent metal spending spree.  It would have been MUCH more if I opted for a larger scale.

Maybe I could have gone smaller, but then things would get too small to suit my tastes (or more specifically, my talent :)).

Guess we'll see how it all comes out!

I don't really have any plans to build a 3.5" track in my back yard or anything.  I doubt this locomotive will ever run much.  It's just a fun project for me to build.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
Well, I asked because those same questions have been rattling around in my gourd for a few years now with precious few solid answers yet. I'm 70 and by the time I could finish a loco it could be too big to handle! Hmmmmm... :thinking:

Oh, and I really like your new avatar.

Thanks!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 28, 2018, 12:18:15 PM
Great to see you off on this new project Kim. Everything you learned on the traction engine will surely be of help here as well!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 28, 2018, 02:44:27 PM
Oh yeah, I'll be following this one Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:52:45 PM
Hey Chris, thanks!  Didn't mean to overlook you last night in my reply!

Pete,
Think you should dive right in and do one of these with me! I think that would be just too fun!

Thanks for following along, Bill and Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2018, 04:58:24 PM
As a builder of the 7.5" gauge version I will follow your adventure with interest.  There are several websites that list some of the few errors in the plans, so I'd  familiarize yourself with those.

You might want to check out Friends Models for castings of the loco drivers and cylinders.

Hi kvom,
Where are these websites with the plan errors listed?
I've done some research and haven't run across that yet.  Sounds like it could be really helpful!

I have found the Friends Models site, and I've elected to fabricate the cylinders and the drivers.  Partly for cost reasons, and partly because I want the chalenge.

Thanks for the pointers,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on October 28, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
Hi Kim, good to see your start of a new projekt. I will following along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2018, 06:08:56 PM
I can't find the error site now myself either.   :shrug:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on October 28, 2018, 06:19:26 PM
Has anyone pulled all the errata together in to one document? As popular as this loco is I would think it might have been done??

Thanks,

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 12:57:23 AM
Moving forward on the wheels for the tender.

I mounted one of the blanks into my 3” Taig 4 jaw chuck (I have an adaptor for this chuck that I’ve made for other projects and it works quite well). I indicated it using the outside radius to get it fairly centered in the chuck. Then I faced off one side, nice and clean.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-01-DSC_5006.jpg)

Next step was to pan out a good chunk on the wheel.  This needed a 15o slope on each side of the scooped-out section.  To get this, I ground a tool with a 30o angle with a nice broad rounded tip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-02-DSC_5013.jpg)

Then went about panning the first wheel. It seemed to be going quite well and was looking really good, except I noticed things sounded funny toward the outside of the section.  I soon discovered that the edge of the tool was interfering terribly with the outside radius of the cut-out section.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-03-DSC_5009.jpg)

And of course I had one of those “Duh…” moments.  All you experienced guys saw this coming from a mile away, I’m sure.  But I had to discover it on my own apparently. :Doh:

So, I modified the tool and created a lot more clearance on the left side of the tip.  I needed to get about 1/8” deep with the tool, so I cut the clearance that far back (plus some safety margin).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-04-DSC_5017.jpg)

With that modification, things worked MUCH better!  And I think I can still pull this one out and NOT have to scrap this wheel (at least, not for this bonehead move.  Maybe for the next one :)).

With the sloping edge of the tool, it was kind challenging to get the correct width of the carved-out area. In addition to the sloping tool, it was difficult to get a good datum on the very center of the wheel. So, I did a ‘good eyeball’ estimate and carved out most of the area, leaving a nice buffer on each side.  Once I got to the correct depth (1/8”) I snuck up on the inside and outside radius, measuring with the dial calipers till I got the correct inside (5/8”) and outside (1 3/4") diameters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-05-DSC_5015.jpg)

With that completed, next was to make the 5/16” axle hole.  I started this with a center and then drilling a 1/4" hole all the way through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-06-DSC_5020.jpg)

Then, to ensure that the axle hole was perpendicular to the freshly machined side of the wheel, I bored the hole out to just under 5/16” ( went to about 0.304”, leaving about 8 thousandths for the reamer).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-07-DSC_5021.jpg)

Having ensured the hole was perpendicular, I then reamed it out with a 5/16” reamer:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-08-DSC_5024.jpg)

Having completed all operations on the first side, I flipped the wheel around in the 4 jaw and then centered it using the freshly cut axle hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-09-DSC_5028.jpg)

Next op was to face off this side and cut it down to the correct width for the wheel (7/16”). 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-10-DSC_5031.jpg)

And repeat the panning operation on this side (as described above).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-11-DSC_5032.jpg)

And that is the first series of operation for each wheel blank.  After I get all 8 wheels to this stage, then I’ll work on turning the flange and the tread.

I got two wheels turned up to this point.  I think I’m getting faster.  First one took 4-5 hours because I had to grind the panning tool (and then re-grind it to fix the relief problem) and figure out how to do all the steps.  But the second one only took 90 min or so (I didn’t actually time it, but it was much faster).  I’m thinking they’ll get even faster, but it will still take some time.  I’ve got 6 more of them to go!

Anyway, here’s my progress so far, showing the two completed up to this point and one of the ‘blanks’ just for fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002b-TenderWheels-12-DSC_5037.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2018, 01:01:43 AM
Very well done!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 04, 2018, 01:02:34 AM
Hey, that is some good progress Kim. The time should come down a lot on the successive wheels.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 04, 2018, 01:17:44 AM
Sweet!

 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 01:38:55 AM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Pete!

I've never done 8 repetitions of something before.  The most I've done is 5 - for Rudy's Radial Five.  Luckily, things will go down to fewer repetitions after the tender wheels & trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 02:15:18 AM
kim  and all  I came across this pbs (Parts breakdown system ) published by martin of the MMX project. it is a free download an engineering tool to manage complex projects. Try it or not but looks interesting could com in handy.


 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKW_-ygHTu2z4inSSGPFnjAoIolORW19d-Xu-uhDw9E/edit#gid=0)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 05:05:37 AM
That does look interesting!  That looks somewhat similar to a project numbering system that was used by a company I used to work at.  Each project was given a 4 digit project number, then there was a prefix that indicated what documentation this was for the project, and a post fix for revision control.  The prefix was something like - 100 series was drawings, 200 series was specs, 300 was something else (I can't remember them all) and 900's were for the BOMs.  It was very hierarchical too.

That spreadsheet looks pretty interesting.  Thanks for sharing!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tin Falcon on November 04, 2018, 12:17:50 PM
You are welcome Like I mentioned this is an offshoot of the Marble machine x project.  Wintergaten you tube Chanel. This aspect of the project is described in episode 57 of the build. The guy has been IIrc about a year /year and a half on this project and hopes to have it pretty much wrapped up by Christmas.  Not only is he building this machine but he is designing / redesigning most of the parts as he goes. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2018, 02:57:25 PM
Wow! I had to go google that.  Pretty impressive! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 02:58:56 PM
This is a short update representing a lot of work.  I completed the first phase on all eight tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002c-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5040.jpg)

Next will be to add the flange & tread to the wheels!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 11, 2018, 03:28:27 PM
You started this while I was on my road trip. I've been looking forward to catching up.

What fun!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 11, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
Great start, looking forward to seeing the build!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 11, 2018, 04:03:09 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2018, 06:11:01 PM
Thanks Zee, and Chris!

I've been looking forward to it for a longtime too! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 12, 2018, 12:02:47 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 12, 2018, 12:34:19 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
And the bin of spares...


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
Now we need to see the other side of the wheels.   :mischief:
Kvom, that picture shows both sides - half of them are right-side-up, and the other half are upside-down.  :Jester:

And the bin of spares...
 :cheers:
Yeah, didn't show the recycle bin (yet). There's only ONE puck in the reuse bin - so far. I mis-read my dial caliper (thought it said 0.775" and it really said 0.675, and I cut the hub way too small). I figured I'd get through the next series of steps on the wheels then show my rejects.  Not that I think there will be any more.  No, of course not.  But I don't want to Jinx it!  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 12, 2018, 09:50:04 AM
Hello Kim,

Looking real good and you are making good progress so far. I enjoy seeing parts beginning to stack up, large piles of completed parts is a good thing.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Thanks Thomas! :)

This week I made some more progress on the tender wheels.

First, I made a 5/16” mandrel to hold the wheels.  A fairly simple turning operation.  Here I just finished single-pointing the 5/16”-24 threads:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5042.jpg)

With that complete, I mounted one of the wheels in the mandrel and turned it to the final outside dimension of 2 1/4". 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5048.jpg)

Then I cut the general shape of the tread, but no tapering (yet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5049.jpg)

Then, I did it seven more times!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002d-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5054.jpg)

The next step will be to taper the tread and the flange, which should finish up the tender wheels.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 18, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
They look great Kim, nicely done.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 18, 2018, 04:31:46 PM
Yes, they look great.

Why didn't you do the tapering after turning the general shape?
Any concerns about keeping it concentric?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 18, 2018, 05:29:26 PM
You might consider buying/making a form tool for the flanges, and you'll have 4 more to do for the loco.  Note that the flat part of the tread needs to be at a slight angle. 

http://ibls.org/files/Standards/IBLS%20Wheel%20Standard%203534DG%20Gauge.pdf

If you do decide to machine them manually, I suggest doing the same cut on all wheels at one time for consistency.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2018, 06:24:54 PM
Thanks Cnr, Zee, and Kvom,
Zee, the reason I didn't do tapersthis time through is that I'm going to have to reposition the compound slide a few times for the tapers.  And as Kvom hesaid, I want all the tapers to be consistent. So I'll set the taper once then do all eight wheels. If I did it now, I'd have to reposition the tool lots of times, and likely not get the same taper!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gerritv on November 18, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
Lovely work. Always fun plotting repetitive parts sequence of ops.

Gerrit
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 10:39:37 PM
Thanks Gerrit!

The next step on the Tender Wheels was to angle the tread and the flange.

Kozo recommend that you blue (or somehow color) in the tread and flange so that its easier to see when you cut close to the corner.  So, that’s what I did. After which, I set the compound at a 10o angle and cut the tread on the first wheel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5056.jpg)

Did this seven more times.
Then I readjusted the compound to be 10o for the front side of the flange, and cut all eight of those:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5061.jpg)

Next, was another compound adjustment to cut the 10o angle on the back side of the flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5066.jpg)

And finally, I used a file to round over the top of the flange a bit, and to take the edge off the front of the tread.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5071.jpg)

Here’s a shot of all eight completed tender wheels:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002e-TenderWheels-5-DSC_5077.jpg)

Before I'm all done with the tender wheels I need to clean them up a little more and paint them red!  I’m going to do some of the painting as I go this time.  Can’t leave all the fun for the end, right?   :Jester:  (I don’t really like painting, just in case you didn’t know that.)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
The wheels look very nice Kim, but I'm curious about the 10 degree taper, was that a typo; I see 3 degrees on the print underneath the wheels?


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Same question. I don't have the A3 book but both the Shay and climax also show a 3 degree tread angle as does kvom's reference.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2018, 11:07:19 PM
 :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:     :facepalm:    :facepalm:     :facepalm:
Nope, not a type-o. Wish it was.  I cut them at 10o, though it clearly says 3o.
 :hammerbash:

That kinda blows my last few weeks of work.  And an expensive chunk of 12L14....
  :wallbang:

Well, now the question - do I do-em again?  Or decide that my slightly over-tapered tread on these wheels won't matter a smidge, since this will never be used on a track in any serious way. It's more of a mantle piece for me.

Hmm... how noticeable do you think that will be in a finished model?  Will people be shocked and appalled at the cones I'm using for wheels?  Or will it not even be noticed.  :slap:

 :Doh:

Guess I'll think about that for a bit and do something else for a while...

Kim  :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 23, 2018, 11:16:25 PM
Ouch! I hate when very carefully, precisely, doing the wrong thing.   :zap:




One other option, recutting the bevel to 3 degrees, and trimming the flange. How much would it reduce the OD of the wheels? Too much?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 23, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
The taper is just to keep the wheels on the track going around a curve, and when on a straight track it won't be noticeable.  I wouldn't scrap them.  You can recut them at 3 degrees and then adjust the flange.  Wheels will be a bit smaller but again not a big deal.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 23, 2018, 11:22:10 PM
Or you could cut the treads square again, heat shrink a tire on each and cut the proper angle. It probably won't matter for display purposes but I would sure be wanting to run it after investing all that building time.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 23, 2018, 11:27:10 PM
I agree that the angle won't really matter. Nor does the exact size. And the fix is not hard if you do as Bill suggests. I don't know how many times something like this has set me on my heels until I've had time to fully appreciate the impact....

Ouch!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 23, 2018, 11:29:41 PM
Sorry Kim that's a bummer. :(
If it were me I would either repair them or remake them, I really doubt that I would leave them as is. As Chris indicated maybe you could just re-cut the wheel and reduce the diameter accordianlly. How much would this be on the radius? Maybe not enough to matter.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 23, 2018, 11:47:14 PM
That's a bummer and I'm betting you're still kicking yourself over it.
Set it aside. They can wait. Do some other things (i.e. parts) for a while.
The answer may/will come later.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 12:17:46 AM
Thank you all for the commiserations and the suggestions.  I do appreciate it.

Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.  I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.  If history is any guide, I'll probably feel less down about it tomorrow.  But right now, its pretty much taken the wind out of my sails...

 :'(
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on November 24, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Yeah.  I'm feelin' kinda irritated with the whole thing at the moment.

Nah. Just the wheels. Don't forget about all the good feelings you had with other parts.

I'll probably just go away and try not to think about it for a while.

Hard to do, but yeah.  ;D

I've stopped projects for less. Don't do that.

I should listen to myself sometimes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 12:38:15 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 12:41:50 AM
Assuming you cut the taper so that the flange diameter is intact, then the diameter of the face of the wheel is already a bit smaller.  But cutting the proper taper won't change that; only the flange diameter will end up being reduced.  Based on this and the drawings, I calculated that the wheels are smaller by .049" than per plan.
So it scales out to  wheels with a bit of wear that the maintenance shop refaced. Realistic!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 12:52:53 AM
If that is correct then the tender would only sit .0245" lower. Negligible for display or running. Sounds like a plan to me.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 12:55:42 AM
I did the same thing and came up with .043" on the radius, but I was only working from the dimensions that I could see in Kim's photos.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 02:30:06 AM
I meant to say the radius. 

Measurements done using Draftsght.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 03:10:51 AM
Yes, some time away doing other things was a good idea.  Helps put the world into perspective ;D

Yes, Dave and Kvom, guys have it right.  It would be about 0.043" short on the radius, or 0.086" smaller in diameter (not quite 3/32").  Since the inner diameter is SUPPOSED to be 2 1/16", that would be about 4% smaller.

Now much will that bother me?

I might play with one wheel tomorrow and see how it looks. But right now, I'm kinda thinking that the next several weeks of my shop time will be making 8 more wheels!  But it will go better this time!  And think of the cool paper weights I'll have to sit around my desk?   :-\

How would I learn to pay better attention to the plans if I didn't make stupid mistakes, right?
And it keeps me humble.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 03:19:56 AM
You could use the 8 practice wheels to make a set of ore cars to pull.


Or some windstorm safe poker chips!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on November 24, 2018, 07:19:30 AM
Hi Bill

Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Why not machining the wheels down to square and fit new rims on each one? That should at least safe half the work!
You don.'t even need to heat shrink them - I would just use some loctite and glue those rims on the wheel.
That is in the end even more realistic bexcause thats how wheels were made - except the fitting method.

Florian

So, if I do as you and Bill suggested, and machine the wheel flat up to the flange, then put a ring on it, that sounds reasonable, but where do I get a 2 1/16" outside diameter (1 13/16" ID), 13/32" wide ring? If I make them out of the 12L14 round stock, I'll be using almost as much material and turning 90% of it into swarf.  Is that really easier than just starting over?  Maybe, or maybe not...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 05:45:26 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 05:59:34 PM
You could use some DOM tubing but that may also cost as much as the solid 12L14.
https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3504-8242-2-14-od-x-375-wall-dom-steel-tube.aspx

Dave

Interesting idea, Dave.  But you're right.  Price wise, its pretty close. And that DOM tubing is no fun to machine.  Its very tough and stringy.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 06:01:49 PM
Kim, if you can live with the reduced diameter of the wheels as others have calculated, that would seem the best option other than starting over. The wheels will look right at least.

Bill

Yeah, I'm not sure if I can live with it.  But I may give it a try on one wheel and see how it looks.   It would be the first step to turning it flat for a tire re-fit anyway.  And it wouldn't matter if I decided to remake them.

Kim


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 06:20:45 PM
Every suggestion made has pros and cons of course. I hate it happened, but sure you will do what works for you and that's what matters really.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 07:32:10 PM
Kim, I totally understand about the tender being low but that assumes the loco is at the top of its travel. Above all it's how you feel and looking at it on display.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on November 24, 2018, 08:35:19 PM
Hello Kim,

Like Bill, I sure hate that this happened but ( my 2-cents worth ) you must do whatever makes you happy. As hard as you worked on the last project and look how beautiful it turned out....and only you know if every little part turned out perfect. "Perfect" whatever pleases you.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2018, 09:12:58 PM
Thanks for all the support guys!

Haven't had much shop time today.  Somehow, I thought this was Shop Day, but really, its do stuff around the house day (like fix the router, put up Christmas lights, and several other things like that).

But I did manage to slip out into the shop for a few min (like 15 - it really wasn't very long) to give this a try.

One of the suggestions has been just to re-cut the tread angle to 3 degrees and deal with slightly smaller wheels.  So, I did that to one of the wheels and here's the result (one on the left has been re-cut to 3o, the one on the right is the evil 10o angled tread).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5081.jpg)

Not too bad.  It was fast for sure.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5083.jpg)

The tread part of the wheel is about 60-70 thou smaller in diameter than it’s supposed to be which is a little better than I’d calculated (I calculated ~0.084”).  Probably means my angle settings aren’t super accurate, which is not hard to believe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002f-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5086.jpg)

And with the tread being ~1/16” small, the flange is ~1/16” larger than its supposed to be.  ~1/32” on either side.

If I were willing to deal with the slight delta on the wheel diameter, are the flanges OK as is?  Or would they need to be cut down to suit?

Now I’m beginning to lean this way.  Certainly a lot less work, I don't scrap the material, and it doesn't look bad to me at all (yet).  Plus, there’s nothing that says I can’t change my mind and re-do the tender wheels later if it proves to be too big of an issue at some point.

Thanks for all the thoughts on this.  I really do appreciate the thoughts and discussion!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 24, 2018, 09:20:29 PM
The extra flange diameter doesn't look bad , but you will have a small flat where the tread was cut down. Not an issue for display, those that run live steam will have to comment on that from a running perspective though. All in all, I think you are on the right track!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 24, 2018, 09:21:04 PM
Wow - big improvement in the appearance!

For the flange, it looks fine, but it would depend on what rails you would be running it on (if any) - if left too tall they could hit the track holding spikes/bolts/etc. If this is for display and static running, looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on November 24, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Looks so much better and 15 minutes well spent. As you said you can always change your mind.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 24, 2018, 10:57:20 PM
That looks much better Kim.
It wouldn't take too long to skim the OD and re-cut the 10 degree tapers, then the proportions would be correct; but tucked up under the tender it probably won't matter either way.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 24, 2018, 11:18:16 PM
I would try turning one to the correct angle and just see what it looks like. The only bit that would give the game away would be the thickness of the tyre.

Steve

Yes, this is another strong contender.  If I do this, the whole wheel will be 0.084" smaller than its supposed to be and the tender will sit 0.042" lower than designed.  That's almost 3/64".  Maybe not a big deal, but I'm not sure I will be happy.

Ah... decisions, decisions...
Kim

Just ignore it for now and finish the frame and trucks.  Then you can judge its appearance.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 25, 2018, 02:30:47 AM
Hi Kim,
 Just catching up on progress. The wheels look fine, just like they have been in the shop for re- profiling in full size! A friend of mine purchased a loco of another club members estate & found all the wheels a different diameter.....UP Challanger & went down the turn all too the same size & tired the lot.
 If you decide to go down the tire route another option is to use heavy wall tube, say schedule 40 or maybe 80 or even more or get some laser or water cut plate.

Keep up the progress.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2018, 06:17:33 AM
Thank you everyone, really appreciate your thoughts on this!

Dave, you're right, I was thinking the same thing - it wouldn't take very long to bring the flanges down a tad and then it would look even better.  Besides, I'll have to clean up the flange tapers a bit anyway.   Have to get rid of that little flat spot on the flange that Bill was talking about :)

Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on November 25, 2018, 06:19:11 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 03:25:58 PM
Thanks Pete!


Back to the shop to tackle the wheels.

I’d decided to bring the flanges down a tad to make them more proportional to the slightly smaller wheel.  The basic dimensions that I used for my ‘resized wheels’ was 2 3/16” for the outside of the flanges (vs. the 2 1/4" in the plans) and for the max tread height, I went with 1.90”  (where the plans say 2 1/16”).  If you bother with the math, you can see that this comes out to the 0.042” (radius) that I will be off due to re-cutting the tread at 3o (from the  10o I mistakenly, initially used).


Here is the flange being brought down to its new size, after cutting the tread slow down to 3o:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-1-DSC_5088.jpg)

After this, I re-tapered the flanges, both front and back.  Didn’t show pictures of that, since its identical to what I showed back in post #57 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg188280.html#msg188280)).  After filing the flange top round and polishing them up a bit, here are all 8 wheels in their final form:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-2-DSC_5091.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-3-DSC_5094.jpg)

It wasn’t all roses today. When was cutting down one of the flanges, I mis read the DRO and just cut WAY past my stop point making the flange noticeably short.  So, I cut one more blank and started from the beginning on another wheel. It probably took me a little over an hour, but I got it back to the same point as the others quickly enough. My only issue here was “Now that I’m making a fresh one, should I leave it as specified in the plans? Or should I ‘make’ it smaller to match all the others?”  In the end, I decided that I’d just make it match the other seven.  If I decide I need that extra 1/16”, I’ll just have to make 8 more wheels. But it was kind-of hard to make it ‘wrong’ intentionally!

And in the spirit of showing off my foibles, here’s a shot of my wheel reject bits:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/002g-TenderWheels-4-DSC_5098.jpg)

The one on the right was just today with the over aggressively shortened flange.  The one on the left was several weeks back.  I mis-read the dial caliper.  It showed 0.675” for the size of the center hub, but I read it as 0.775”. You know how you can see the ‘7’ when you’re in the high-range of the 0.600’s? Well, that bit me and this was the result.

With that, I think I’m ready to start a new part!  And next up will be the axels for the tender.  Luckily, only four of those :)

Thanks for all your support!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 02, 2018, 03:31:29 PM
Bottom line - nice stack of wheels!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 02, 2018, 03:59:44 PM
Those should work just fine Kim. I like that the flanges are proportional again. Nice recovery  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 02, 2018, 04:15:43 PM
Looking good :praise2: when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
Thanks Chris, Bill, and Steve,

... when I was an apprentice I was told the difference an amateur and a professional was how well they can get out of a situation. Well executed recovery.
Well, then I guess I can emulate a professional as long as I have a large team of helpful coaches giving me tips and suggestions!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 04, 2018, 04:34:33 AM
Great looking wheels Kim. A very good start to your locomotive's tender!  Also a couple of skill - building 'recoveries' under your belt for drive wheels and wheels of other locomotives.....can't get that out of any book or Yoot Ube video.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 04, 2018, 05:14:07 AM
Thanks CNR,
Yeah, the drivers... I'm excited/scared to get to those :)  I'm planning on fabricating them if I can.  Should be doable, but if I run into too much trouble, all it takes is some $$ and I can buy a set from Friends.  But I'm excited to give it a try (eventually - that's probably a couple years out yet, at my rate!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 04, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Now that the tender wheels are sorted out, what are you planning to tackle next Kim?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2018, 05:09:29 AM
Next will be the axles, then I'll be moving on to the truck assemblies, starting with the Journal Boxes. :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
Chapter 2.2, Tender Axles start about halfway down this post.

It’s been a while since my last update, but I have made some progress.  A few weeks ago, I started painting the tender wheels.  I did a couple of coats of primer, then painted them red.  It’s been pretty cold out in my shop lately, so it takes a while for the paint to dry! 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5107.JPG)

Today, I took the tape off.  And they seem to have turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5110.JPG)

One of the things Kozo shows, is gluing sandpaper to a piece of plywood, then holding that flat against the wheels with the tail stock to clean up the ends of the wheels.
Worked a treat!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5114.JPG)

And it made some cool patterns on the sandpaper too! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5116.JPG)

After doing all the ‘front’ side of the wheels, I flipped them around and sanded up the backside in the same way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5121.JPG)

And here’s all eight of them, half upside down, and half right side up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5123.JPG)

Chapter 2.2 Tender Axles

Next, I cut four chunks of 3/8” 12L14 and faced it off to exactly 4.750”.  Then using the collet chuck, I made a few steps in each end like this. The bigger step (5/16”) is for the wheel, and the smaller step (1/4”) will go in the bearing in the Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5104.JPG)

All four of the axels completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_5112.JPG)

And here’s the current family shot.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/9-DSC_5125.JPG)

Not much of a locomotive yet, but I’ll get there. One step at a time.  And this, my friends, officially completes my first step in Kozo’s book!  Only 34 or so to go!  (and this was an absurdly easy one! ::) )

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 15, 2018, 10:50:12 PM
That really changed the look.


 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 15, 2018, 10:50:33 PM
Hello Kim,

Boy those sure look good, the sandpaper trick is a neat way to finish them.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Those look great to me Kim. Love the sandpaper trick as well. So are the frames chapter 2?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2018, 11:06:42 PM
Thanks Chris, Thomas, and Bill!
I'm pretty pleased with how the wheels look.  The paint really does pep it up some, doesn't it?  Those nice crisp lines...  :Love:

Bill, the next step is making the trucks.  Lots of parts and work there. I won't get to the frame till after the trucks are completed.  Interestingly, the first step (the tender wheels) is chapter 2.  Chapter 1 is the intro and general assembly drawings.

I'm thinking maybe I should start labeling my updates with chapters, so if anyone wants to reference in the future, they can match it to Kozo's book more easily. I think I may do that.

I've also thought about adding an index at the beginning of the build.  I'll just update it with links to where the different parts are.  It might be helpful to someone, but it would also fit my mildly obsessive personality.  It would be fun to have the index for the whole thing in one place :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 15, 2018, 11:27:08 PM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 16, 2018, 02:28:56 AM
At least there are only 4 trucks.  I didn't build a tender, so no hands-on experience here, but the machining looks straightforward.  Bending the arch bars may be the trickiest part.  I would probably look for off the shelf springs.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 05:56:55 AM
Thanks Kim. I mis-spoke. What I had meant was the tender truck frames....my bad. An index may be a good idea, not sure anyone has tried that. Guess I will have to buy the book to follow along. Can't tell the players without a program right??  :Lol:

Bill
Clearly, everyone needs the hymnal so they can follow along  :ROFL:
But really, this is a great book, so I'd recommend it whether you care about my build or not!  Just a great reference for tips and techniques (at least for a less experienced machinist like me!)

And sorry for misunderstanding you.  But it worked for the good.  It will help me make things more clear going forward  :)

Thanks Kvom,
I'm going to give winding my own springs a shot!  Kozo give such clear information, I think I can do it.   Yet another fun thing to learn!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on December 16, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Those wheels look great Kim. Well done.

I thought of something while looking at them. I know how much 12L14 wants to rust. Well, I just bought a couple of new planes for the woodworking side of my shop. The manufacturer recommends wiping them down with Camelia Oil to ward off rust. Here's the Amazon link to my source for Camelia Oil: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00362HBPQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'm going to try it on the 12L14 fly wheel on my first wobbler build.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 16, 2018, 05:15:15 PM
Beautiful job on the wheels Kim!
I can see when building a Loco that finishing the parts as you go may be a better option than tearing the whole thing down for painting when it is finished. Is this what you are thinking for the rest of the parts and assemblies as you proceed?

Dave

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
Thanks Jim and Dave,

I had considered using a coat of clear matte finish on the unpainted steel to help keep it from oxidizing.  I was worried the oil would pick up dust and yuck.  But maybe the oil would still be a better soution.

Yes, I'm planning to finish parts as I go on this model.  I see other people doing this and thought it might be fun to give it a try.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 03:21:46 AM
This week I got started on Chapter 3, the Tender Truck Frames.  And the first step in that is the Journal Boxes.  The Journal Boxes require a few jigs.  Kozo recommends a couple of jigs to for milling the angles, and another one for drilling some screw holes.

I don’t intend on making the screw hole locating jig, but I did build the angle setting jigs.  I figure using the DRO will be better accuracy than I could obtain with a jig.

Chapter 3.1 - Journal Boxes

First, I’ll tell you about the Jigs. I didn’t exactly do things in this order. For example, I did some of the journal box steps while the steel for the jigs was cooling. But it makes a much better narrative flow this way.

I used 1/2"x 3/4" 1018 bar (CRS) for these jigs and finished a couple of pieces to 3”.  Before I did any significant milling, I decided to do a little strain relief.  So I heated them up with my torch for a bit.  I know its better to use an oven and soak it for a long time, but I don’t have an oven. So, I use the torch.  It seems to mostly work :)  This is an exciting shot of the two hunks of metal cooling.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-1-DSC_5132.jpg)

Fist I did the 45o jig.  I set that one up using some angle blocks and clamped it in the vise and cut the ‘V’ in it. (Forgot to take a picture of that).  That one was relatively easy.  But the 3/10 angle jig was more challenging for me. A 3/10 angle works out to be 16.69o.  So, finally came up with this; I used a vice with a sine vice and set it to 16.69o and I clamped that in the mill vise. (try doing this in the Taig! :naughty:)  The workpiece being held long-ways like that wasn’t ideal, but I took small cuts and took things easy, and it worked out alright.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-2-DSC_5140.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the 3/10 fixture, just after being milled.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-3-DSC_5142.jpg)

And here are the two angle jigs, ready for use!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-4-DSC_5147.jpg)

But wait!  I have those cool number stamps!  Why not put them to good use:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-5-DSC_5150.jpg)
Clearly I’m going to have to learn how to get those lined up better.  The numbers are going all which way.  Does anyone have any good hints on how to get the numbers aligned better and more evenly?

Here’s my blanks for the Journal Boxes.  These are cut from 5/8” square 12L14.  I only need 8 of these, but I made a spare just for fun!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-6-DSC_5129.jpg)

I cleaned up the 5/8” blanks to the correct length (13/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-7-DSC_5135.jpg)

And here are all 8 (plus spare) cut to size and ready for the next operation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004a-Journal_Box-8-DSC_5143.jpg)

This is where I leave off for today, and possibly till after Christmas.

May you all be blessed with a wonderful and merry Christmas!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 24, 2018, 03:57:07 AM
Thanks for the update Kim. Christmas wishes to you and your family too.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:01:29 PM
Hi Kim, re how to line up letter stamps - the old fashioned way was to make a 4 sided frame of square stock that is a sliding fit for 4-6 stamps side by side. A brass screw through one short side of the frame can be used to adjust for holding more than one stamp. If the frame and stamps can be clamped in place to the work or the vise holding it, alignment can be made very close to perfect. In theory you could hold more than 4-6 stamps, but because they are loose in the frame, they would be unwieldy to hold everything while using the hammer to make the impressions.

One thing to note though - check the dimensions on your stamps - on a set I bought a few years ago a couple were .008" to .010" bigger than the others, and one had a side at 95 degrees to its' neighbour! (it was a very cheap set, but still.....) A friend with a surface grinder sorted the big and unsquare ones quite quickly.

You may have noticed that the stamp impressions leave metal raised above the surface. This may not ever be an issue for you but the raised bits can interfere with making an accurate thickness stack of blocks or a height setup. If you mill a .010" deep slot on the blocks, then letter stamp in the slots, the impressions will be well below the surface. The die makers in the first shop I worked in used to do this so they could grind the blocks without grinding the ID letter and number stamps away when fitting the die blocks together. Again just an old trick of the trade.

If you plan to have your shop elves or gnomes make such a frame, be careful they start it before they get into the egg nog with Navy rum this time of year. Crueby on here has had some egg nog related shop elf issues this season...... :naughty:

Merry Christmas to everyone on the forum.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 24, 2018, 04:28:19 PM
Yeah, thier partys are fun but messy...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 04:49:07 PM
Chris, you may need to consider a better lock on the spirit locker for next Christmas.......

Ish power;luf schtuf tha elf eg no^&g..... :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 06:07:41 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on December 24, 2018, 06:52:57 PM
Hello Kim,

Your new "layout" by chapter is really neat and should be extremely helpful to all those who build a like unit.

Happy Holidays,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 24, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
Thanks CNR, that's a very clever idea!  That would get them lined up and solve the vertical alignment and rotational issues.
Is there a standard way to get the letters spaced evenly?  Or do you just eyeball it?

Thank you!
Kim

Hi Kim, I can't take any credit for the idea - saw it done many years ago by the old-timer master mould and diemakers I worked with. Just passing it along. As to spacing, you can't get the letters closer together than the punch centre to centre distance (without altering the punches), but you can of course add spacers between punches. When using punches in a frame, one set of letters/numbers could be punched after the frame is located to a datum, say a mill vise stop, by a spacer made from scrap, or a gauge block stack. Then if you want a second set of letters / numbers punched a known distance away, do another spacer or gauge block stack the desired distance away from the datum, less the frame thicknesses. Five piece frames with 3 crossmembers can be made to punch two rows of letters/numbers, more crossmembers could in theory be added to the frame for more rows. Again though the more punches in the frame the more chances for one to jump out of position while using the hammer. Good luck and have fun letter punching!

I'm off to my workshop now to see how bad my own shop elves / tool hiders have broken up the joint - they picked up some bad egg nog habits from Crueby's elves I think..... :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2018, 08:39:13 PM
Thanks Thomas!

And thanks for the reply, crn.  I'll have to think on the horizontal spacing a bit.  But getting things aligned vertically would be a big improvement for me! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 26, 2018, 05:27:15 PM
Hi Kim,
I think I will follow your lead and work in chapters also painting as you go. After three years on and off I just have a collection of bits and pieces for my 5" gauge Kozo climax's.
Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 07:37:08 AM
Sounds great Steve, can't wait to see where you are on you build!
Now I'll have to get the Climax book.  That and the New Shay are the two I'm missing from the set.

So, are you scaling Kozo's plans? I thought all Kozo's locomotives were 3.5" scale.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:35:00 AM
Hi Kim,
It's a strange world I'm happy playing with CNC but I have a phone that's a lot smarter than me and I generally run a mile from computers. I'll have to work out how to load pictures and start another thread.
The only Kozo book I haven't got is the old Shay, but the one I would like is the K27 when it happens. That would make a good size loco in 5".
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 27, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
Forgot to mention, yes I am scaling up to 5". Some of the components need a bit if refinement I think and you have to keep an eye on fixings and tube sizes but other than that it should work out.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2018, 06:56:19 PM
Thanks Steve,
Well, I'd love to see what you're doing. If you wanna try, there are a bunch of us here willing to help you figure out how to post pictures to the forum.  It's not that difficult, I've figured it out after all  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
As I mentioned in another thread, Santa was generous this year and stuffed a nice new vise down the chimney for me!  Here’s a picture of the bench all prepped, with mounting holes drilled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_5172.JPG)

And here’s the finished product.  I’m pleased with the new vise.  Much more substantial than my old, rather rickety vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_5174.JPG)

OK, continuing on with the Journal Boxes.  This work was done in several segments out in the shop, but I’m combining it all into one update to get me up to real time.

This is going to be a multi-step operation. So, I marked each of the Journal Box blanks on one end so that every time I swapped that piece into the mill vise, it would be oriented the same way.  With that, I setup the stop and positioned the mill to spot and drill a 3/8” hole for the journal bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_5154.JPG)

Then I setup the boring head to produce a 0.393” hole, and bored all the holes to that size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_5157.JPG)

Here’s the shot to this point (that was one shop session).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_5160.JPG)

After getting the vise anchored to the bench today, I did some experiments to work out how to cut a 5/16” slot JUST right.  I used two passes of a 1/4" end mill.  Apparently, the 5/16” end mill doesn’t quite make a 5/16” slot.  And doing it in two passes of the 1/4" felt safer.  Anyway, after I got that worked out, it was just a matter of doing it 16 time; once on the top and once on the bottom of each Journal Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_5177.JPG)

Here’s all the Journal Boxes at the end of play time today.  I started with nine so that I had one spare.  Well, I burnt that spare today on the 5/16” slotting operation.  I missed one of them and dialed in the incorrect number. (The one I boogered up is on the far right).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_5183.JPG)

I'd considered leaving the mill setup for one pass and cycling through all 16 positions, resulting in 32 part moves. But instead, I chose to only have 16 part insertions/removals and position the mill using the DRO each time.  I thought that would be less errorprone.  Guess I was wrong. Ah well. At least I had a spare, right?

Still several more steps on the Journal Boxes, so I'll be tackling those tomorrow.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 28, 2018, 08:15:24 AM
Still following along and enjoying :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: A good start on chapter 3  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 28, 2018, 10:20:17 AM
You are making really good progress with your axel boxes. It doesn't matter how many spares I make I'll always trash them.  :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2018, 06:12:48 PM
Thanks Roger and Steve,
Appreciate the commiseration :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 07:16:07 PM
Continuing on with the Journal Boxes:

Next step was to spot, drill and tap 32 holes.  The holes are the same on the top and bottom of the box.  Rather than move the mill head each side, I decided to do twice as many part insertions.  So, my order of operations was:
Here’s part way through the first step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-1-DSC_5185.jpg)

Next, was to drill 32 holes, 3/16” deep.  I did basically the same thing here – 32 drilling operations, one per insertion (1 each side of 16 sides (8 boxes), reposition mill and do it again).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-2-DSC_5187.jpg)
This was the first time I've used the depth stop on the Z-axis.  It actually worked WAY better than I'd thought it would.  I'd had not expected to rely on the stop, but to just have it keep me from making really gross errors. But I was able to set it to the thousandth, and it stayed there, VERY consistent. That made this drilling operation, repetitive as it was, much less onerous!

Finally, was the tapping.  Same process.  I hand tapped, but used the mill to keep the tap straight.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-3-DSC_5189.jpg)

All totaled, there were 96 part insertions to complete this step! And each one registered quite well.  I was quite pleased with that.

With all holes drilled and tapped, the final step was to put the fancy bevel cuts on the boxes.  That’s where those fancy angle jigs I made come in :)

I first did the 45o section.  This was 3/16” on each side, so I calculated that I needed to go down 0.132” from the tip. It came out just right! :) Did 8 of these.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-4-DSC_5192.jpg)

And finally, the 3/10 angled section.  I calculated the depth to be 0.1796” for this.  And it also worked out just right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-5-DSC_5196.jpg)

Here’s the 8 Journal Boxes now complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/004c-JournalBox-6-DSC_5199.jpg)
They need a bit of clean-up to help get rid of the mill marks, but they look pretty good!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 29, 2018, 07:25:49 PM
Looks like a great production run to me Kim. Seems like you are getting along with the new mill quite well. Do you have a DRO on it?

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2018, 08:02:31 PM
Thanks Cletus! :)
DRO?  Oh yes, definitely! That was part of Santa's treat LAST year about this time :)

Loving the Mill, and love the DRO.  The Vise on the mill is great too!  It's a 4" South Bend vise from Grizzly. Really nice quality, easy to use and it works so smooth and slick. I just love using it.  Made the hundred+ insertions easy to do.  And as I mentioned, they were repeatable and accurate!  What more can you ask for?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 29, 2018, 08:11:06 PM
Looking good, you sure are making progress. I never use flute less taps, are they any better as sometimes the threads tear with me if I use structural steel.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 29, 2018, 09:33:41 PM
Nice looking vise Kim, you are going to enjoy using it; can't go wrong with a Wilton, I have four of them! :lolb:
The A3 parts are also looking quite nice.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 30, 2018, 12:50:40 AM
Wow, impressive progress Kim. The boxes look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 30, 2018, 01:56:14 AM
Coming together great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 02:05:15 AM
Thanks Steve, Dave, Bill, and Dave!

Steve,
I do like the roll form taps. They don't have the flutes, so my theory is that they have a little more beef to them to help keep them from breaking.  Secondly, you don't make chips, so you don't have to worry about reversing to break the chips.  I've heard that the roll form taps can be difficult to use in steel, but I've not had any problem in 12L14, or even 1018 steel.  Maybe if I spent as much on the cutting taps as I do on the forming taps I'd have as good of luck with them too.  Most of the cutting taps I have are cheap imports.

Anyway, I like them :)

Thanks for the comments on the vise Dave.  I'm pleased with it, and hope to be more pleased as I start using it!

Bill, I can make a little more progress than normal since I've got a few days off here.  I've got family in town, but still getting some time to play! :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:06:49 AM

Chapter 3.2 - Journal Bearings

Today I started the Journal Bearings.  These were made from 1/2” C932 Bearing Bronze.  The 1/2" is a little big, but there was no 7/16” rod available. Besides, it would have probably been more expensive to purchase two rods when I can just  whittle down a little bit of 1/2".  Wouldn’t even save work since I’d have to cut the 7/16” down too, just not as much.

These bearings are a bit complicated.  Kozo makes them barrel shaped, not just a cylinder.  To do this, you have to cut a slight taper on both ends of the bearing, as you’ll see below.

First step was to drill and ream a 1/4" hole in the bearing for the axles.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-01-DSC_5200.jpg)

Then I cut a short length down to the specified 0.393”.  This will just fit inside the holes bored in the Journal Boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-02-DSC_5202.jpg)

To make it easier to cut the barrel shape, I used a black sharpie to color the bronze rod.  That way I could see what I was shaving off more easily.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-03-DSC_5205.jpg)

I made little marks at 0.125”, 0.145”, the important points on the bearing. Then I used the compound, set at 3o to taper the outside of the bearing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-04-DSC_5207.jpg)

And then adjusted the compound to 3o the other way and tapered that side.  It’s hard to see in the photo, but there’s a slight taper on each end.  The black band in the middle is about 0.020” wide and is kept flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-05-DSC_5209.jpg)

Finally, I cut off the bearing, a little oversized.  In a later step, I will face off that side to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-06-DSC_5210.jpg)

Here’s a picture of two completed.  The marks on the end are to help me remember that this is the ‘cut off’ end that needs to be faced later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-07-DSC_5213.jpg)

Here’s how it will all go together; the bearing on the axle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-08-DSC_5215.jpg)

And the Bearing will slide in the Journal Box.  And here is what all that extra work making the barrel shape buys you: the axle can tilt a little bit relative to the bearing box.  This shot shows one direction:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-09-DSC_5216.jpg)

And this shot shows the other.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005a-JournalBearing-10-DSC_5218.jpg)

Makes sense.  Seems like a pretty smart technique :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on December 30, 2018, 06:09:05 AM
Smart as paint and sharp as a tack! That's a really simple, good, way to take care of axle oscillations. No muss, no fuss, cheap and easy.

I need to take the book down and go through it again. I'll never build it but I'll read that porn...  :naughty:

Nice work, Kim. This adventure is off to a great start!!

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 30, 2018, 09:19:05 AM
Looks very sharp Kim. I find it interesting that Kozo changes a lot of the smaller details as his trains evolve. On the Climax journal boxes there is no provision for the axel to tilt. Everything is size for size with square edges and true cylinders. I did do a small mod on mine and put an easy radius on the journal box slots. Fingers crossed and time will tell.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 05:51:49 PM
Thanks Pete and Steve,
Interesting to hear how Kozo's plans evolve over time.  Wonder what order his plans developed? I think the Pennsy is fairly new, but the New Shay is most recent.  I'd guess the original Shay book is oldest, but I don't really know. I'll have to look.  Should be able to tell by the copyright dates on the books.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 30, 2018, 07:51:38 PM
You're really moving with this one Kim - but then again, with the amount of parts needed for this loco - it will still take some time before you reach the end of this journey. Oh - and nice parts too  :ThumbsUp:

I will follow your progress along with the others  :cheers:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 30, 2018, 08:20:41 PM
Kozo's books:


Shay, 1982
Hiesler, 1986
Climax, 1988
A3, 2001
New Shay, 2007


He currently has a new one being serialized in Live Steam magazine, Building The Rio Grande K-27, which will be a book afterwards, currently on part 28, throttle.


His methods have evolved during the series, fantastic reference for all sorts of methods.


Chris
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2018, 11:26:56 PM
Thanks Chris!  You saved me the trouble of looking them up  ;D

Hi Admiral,
Yes, this is going to be quite a journey for me!  But I'm excited about it and just keep plugging away.  I won't always get this kind of time to make progress, but since I've got some time, I'm going to make hay, as they say.  Or I guess, make A3 parts :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 12:09:42 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 31, 2018, 01:18:58 AM
How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 05:43:01 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Thanks Eric, couldn't agree more! :)

How do you like that diamond tool holder Kim?
I love it!  It is very consistent.  It works well on almost any material, for both facing and turning.  It's easy to sharpen, is quite sturdy, and generally leaves a great finish.

It's my general purpose tool for almost everything now :)

YMMV of course.  For people with more experience, and know what they're doing, this tool may not be quite as magical as it is for me.  But I really like it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 31, 2018, 06:48:50 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming along nicely!
I’ve got a couple of Kozo’s book’s & like you say they are a great resource, lots of hints & tips.

On the diamond tool holders, they are great! Had mine for a couple of years now & they are capable of some serious work if your lath has the power, or you are brave enuff! I got the parting tool as well, can recommend that as well!

Well there 4 hours of this year to go, so have a Happy, productive New Year!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on December 31, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
It ain’t the destination, it’s the ride  8) ;)

Cletus

How very true. Every now and then I make something at work on the CNC, yes it is quick but it has very little value to me as it is just typing numbers.

You are making good progress Kim and your pictures always paint a thousand words. It's nice to see how other people overcome problems in a home workshop and what emphasis you put on tooling.

I am really tempted to try the diamond tool holder but to be honest I have so much tool steel it seems a waste.

Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JC54 on December 31, 2018, 07:59:33 PM
Is the diamond toolholder the same as tangential toolholder? If it is I made one and find it one of the best things that I have made/bought for the workshop. It cuts superbly and as a learner it is so easy to sharpen and set tool height . I use ordinary HSS tool steel of which I have quite a stock. :old: :DrinkPint: JC
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on December 31, 2018, 08:02:51 PM
Yes it is JC. Steve, if you have any 1/4” HSS then alls you need is the holder.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
Yup, Cletus answered it - the Diamond is a tangential holder.  It's just someone's product name. These are sold by Village Press.

I finished up the Journal Bearings today.
I used a 25/64” collet to hold the bearings to face off the other side.  Even thought they were barrel shaped, this worked quite well!

I used a 1/4" rod held in the tail stock to insert the bearings – that way they were mostly square with the world.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-1-DSC_5221.jpg)

Once in the collet, I faced them off to length, then used a 45o chamfering mill to chamfer the hole a bit:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-2-DSC_5220.jpg)

Here’s are all 8 of them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/005b-JournalBearing-3-DSC_5223.jpg)

And that was it for the bearings.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2018, 10:50:01 PM
Chapter 3.3 - Columns
Next up, the columns.  These will support the axels and connect them to the bolsters.

One of the things I need for the columns is some 1/16” steel cut into strips.  I also need some of that for Arches, which will be coming up soon. So, since I was going to switch the horizontal band saw over to being vertical, I figured I’d prepare them all right now.

Here I’m cutting the 1/16” steel into strips on the band saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-1-DSC_5226.jpg)

And here’s most of the strips cut.  I still have one more 0.090” strip to cut (you can see the last strip is marked on the sheet).  The ones on the right are 1/16” thick, the ones in the middle are 3/32”  (well, 0.090”, but that was as close as I could get to 3/32” in sheet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006a-Columns-2-DSC_5236.jpg)

That was it for today. It took an absurdly long time to cut those strips!  It's just slow going.

Thanks for following along.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 01, 2019, 06:06:00 AM
Hi Kim,
 Looking good.
One of the reasons I built the new larger table for my bandsaw is the fence that goes with it. A little bit of setup time makes cutting strip like you have just done easy, no need to mark your stock.......it doesn’t make the cutting any faster!
Keep up the good work!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2019, 04:54:12 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

I could see a good fence being a real help here.  I did try clamping a piece of stock in place to act as a fence, but that caused me more trouble than it was worth, so I just took it off. Turns out that the table is not square with the blade.   After I took the fence off, I saw that when was actually cutting a straightish line the was
like 10o off from being perpendicular to the blade.  Now, that doesn't really matter, but it did make it so when I lined up the fence with the table, it didn't work too well  ::)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
The vertical saw is one of the handiest, yet, the most tedious and boring machines in the shop. Maybe it’s just a mental thing, but, it seems I do better if I deeply scribe or score my cut line with a scribe. Seems like vertical saws need a good bit of blade tension also that doesn’t show up as much as on a horizontal. Good looking sawing Kim  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:. I bet your eyes and thumbs  are a bit tired too  :old:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 02, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
Nice work! I’m particularly jealous of your surface finish  :)

I’m working on one in 3/4 scale as well. I’ve been working a full year now and only a bit farther along!

I have the tender done from the frame rails down (less paint). I decided to flip over to the engine until I get to a step that requires the knowledge from building the tender tank or pump. If I run into that I’ll likely switch back to the tender.

Keep up the good work and perseverance through setbacks! I had to walk away from mine for a while, in part to cool off after making a few mistakes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:26:48 AM
Thanks Cletus and Matthew,

Yeah, the band saw was tedious. But I kept telling my self that it was better than cutting them by hand with a hacksaw!  :o

Matthew, that's great that you're doing an A3!  You should start a build and post some pictures of your progress.  I'd love to follow along with your work too!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2019, 05:29:51 AM
Had a little time in the shop today after dropping my daughter off at the airport (always sad to have your kids leave again after the holidays, but it sure is fun to have them home!)

Today was all material prep.  I needed to get those 3/32” and 1/16” steel strips I cut yesterday to a more uniform size.

To start with, I cut them to an approximate length that would be needed for the columns and the arch bars. Cutting them to size made them all much easier to hold on the mill.

Since the strips were longer than my 4” vise, I used some 1/2" parallels to provide better support along the whole length.  I used a combination of parallels to get them supported to the correct height above the top of the vise/parallel, then 1/2” carbide mill to cut them down to width. (5/16”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-1-DSC_5242.jpg)

Even doing them 4 at a time, it still took a while.  But I got them all done, and here they are, all the steel strips I’ll need to complete the tender trucks.  The 12 longer ones are the various arch bars for the trucks, and the short ones are for the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006b-Columns-2-DSC_5244.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2019, 11:10:21 PM
Continuing work on the columns, I cut 8 pieces of 5/16” square 12L14.  These will be the actual columns for the trucks.  Before milling them I heated them up nice and hot with the torch and let them cool down slowly – for stress relief.

The columns have a basic “T” shape.  The cuts to make the T are very shallow.  I made this cut in the mill as seen here.  Did this 8 times, once for each column.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-01-DSC_5246.jpg)

Then I flipped them all over and did the other side.  This made the T symmetrical.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-02-DSC_5247.jpg)

Then I finished the columns to the correct length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-03-DSC_5248.jpg)

I should have done this step first!  it was was only supposed to be 1/4" tall.  Doing this step first would have provided more surface area for the vise.  But in the end, it worked out just fine. I only had to remove a 1/16” anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-04-DSC_5258.jpg)

Then I dialed in the center hole for the post and drilled and tapped 1-72.  This threaded hole will be used to hold things together while silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-05-DSC_5261.jpg)

Here’s the tapping part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-06-DSC_5262.jpg)

On the long edge, I drilled a close fit 1-72 through hole.  Again, this will be used to hold things in place during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-07-DSC_5265.jpg)

The last part of the column, is the top connecting bar. These are made from those little short pieces of steel sheet that I cut out the other day.  All I had to do here was drill a couple of holes, 7/8” apart.  Here’s that op:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-11-DSC_5266.JPG)

Here’s the column family shot: the 4 cross pieces at the top, the 8 columns in the middle (two groups of four), and last but not least, the soldering jig at the bottom.  This is a precisely cut little jig to help hold things square during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-08-DSC_5273.jpg)

I’m assembling the first one, using the soldering jig.  But before I put the top cross piece on, I made a few pops on the end of the columns.  I’ve seen Chris do this many times, and now, on Kozo’s instructions, I’m doing it too :)  The idea is that this will hold the other piece away JUST enough to allow the silver solder to wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-09-DSC_5276.jpg)

And the cross piece in place ready for the soldering operation:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006c-Columns-10-DSC_5278.jpg)

Now all I need to do is actually silver solder it.  But that will wait for another day.  I’m done in the shop for now.  My feet hurt and I’m ready for lunch!  No matter how much fun it is, if I stay out in the shop too long, it quits being fun and starts feeling like work. And I don’t want it to be work.  I’ve still got a couple of days off before I have to go back to that!

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 04, 2019, 12:43:43 AM
Very nice progress Kim. Looking forward to seeing these come together.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 04, 2019, 10:54:06 AM
You are curtainly making good progress. I know what you mean about quitting while you are ahead. This is enjoyment not a job.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2019, 06:52:07 PM
Thanks Steve and Bill!
You'll see the first steps of that 'coming together' here :)


Yesterday I got the columns soldered together.  This was an important step in that it proves that I can successfully silver solder 12L14 and the 4130 sheet steel.  I fully expected it to work, based on my extensive research (asking you guys and Googling) but its nice to see it work regardless! :)

Here’s my soldering setup – all prepped and ready:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-1-DSC_5281.jpg)

And after the job.  This happens to be a different “after” shot (i.e. it doesn’t correspond to the before shot above) but the idea is the same (I forgot to take a picture of the first one).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-2-DSC_5283.jpg)

I found that it was best to do each side separately. If I prepped both sides, the flux was all dried out and worthless by the time I got the first end done.  So I just took to prepping one end at a time.  8 solder sessions vs. 4, but it was worth it to have it work!  :Lol:

After soldering and a bit of pickle and a wash, I milled off the heads of the sacrificial screws that helped hold things together for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-3-DSC_5286.jpg)

Then milled off the overhanging part of the sheet that joins the two columns.  Did this on both sides. (Note, I didn’t mill of the head of THIS screw, since it wasn’t soldered and can be re-used.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-4-DSC_5288.jpg)

Then there was some serious filing work to clean up the top connecting plate.  Here three of the four columns have been filed to shape, with the bottom right still to go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006d-Columns-5-DSC_5290.jpg)

Today I’ll drill and tap the final holes in the columns then get going on the bolsters!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2019, 07:29:21 PM
Great job. Getting comfortable with the silver soldering opens up all sorts of fabrication.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:38:35 AM
Thanks Chris!

The Columns aren’t quite finished yet.  I still need to finish cleaning them up, and adding the screw holes.

I wanted to start with this shot:  My new vise :)
This is my first real use of my new vise and it is quite nice! I’ll have to say its much more stable than my old vise and is more than adequate for this job!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-2-DSC_5295.jpg)

The unfortunate thing is that I wanted to make some Aluminum soft jaws for the vise.  I started taking off the stock steel jaws but I couldn’t get them off. They are held on with little Philips head screws and they I found them VERY hard to get out.  I was able to remove a couple of them, but I completely stripped out one of the screws.  Now I can’t get it off at all. I’ll have to drill it out or something.  But, that’s not a job for today.  Instead, I just used double-sided-sticky-tape to hold a couple of pieces of aluminum in place over the steel jaws.

Anyway, here’s one of the columns ready to be filed to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-1-DSC_5291.jpg)

Next, I drilled 4 holes in each of the column assemblies (this is the top of one column):
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-3-DSC_5306.jpg)

And then tapped them 3-48 (this is the bottom of the column).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-4-DSC_5309.jpg)

And the final shot of all four completed columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/006e-Columns-5-DSC_5313.jpg)

And that’s it for those. Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:43:00 AM
Chapter 3.4 – Bolsters and Side Bearings
Following the columns are the bolsters.  These consist of upper and lower bolsters.  There will be coil springs between the upper and lower bolsters and the wheels will connect to the lower bolster.  The columns that I just made will keep the upper and lower bolsters aligned.

I cut several 5 1/2" lengths of 1018 steel.  Two for the upper bolsters (5/8”x3/4”) and two for the lower bolsters (5/16” x3/4”).

Since the bolsters (the upper in particular) will have some significant milling, I wanted to stress relieve these before starting.  Again, I did this with my torch, heating them up to a nice dull red.  Then I closed my “oven door” and left them to cool slowly.  You can see my ‘oven’ all closed up here :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-1-DSC_5297.jpg)

Here’s after the door is open.  You can see the 4 chunks of steel that were cooling all night.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-2-DSC_5303.jpg)

But many of the cuts on the bolster need to be done at 3o.  So, I need to make a jig to allow me to cut easily at 3o.  For this, I used a 6” piece of 1/2" square 1018 that I had in my ‘short pieces’ pile.

To cut a 3o angle, I setup my sine vise, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-3-DSC_5314.jpg)

Here’s after I shaved a little 3o wedge off.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-4-DSC_5317.jpg)

With this done, I cut the bar in half, and the jig is done.  I will be able to support pieces clamped between these two parts in the vise, and it should produce a 3o angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-6-DSC_5323.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007a-Bolsters-5-DSC_5324.jpg)

That’s where I left off today.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 06, 2019, 12:47:44 AM
Nice day in the shop Kim. Gonna hate to see you have to go back to work. Very much enjoying the build.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 12:55:59 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 06, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Thanks Bill!
Yeah, me too!  But I'm going to have to start W**k next week. :/  I'm enjoying having a bit of shop time every day. Guess it gives me something to look forward to in my retirement  :D
Kim


Ick!!  Condolences on the W**k.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 01:12:08 AM
Kim, I really like your solution to the 3* problem! Very clever..

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:28:36 AM
Thanks Pete!
Unfortunately, the only credit I can take here is maybe how I made it.  This is the 3o fixture that Kozo shows in his book.  But I made it a different way than he shows, so I'll take credit for that.  (or for copying someone else and not realizing it, so not attributing it to them, which is highly likely  :embarassed:).

Appreciate you following along Pete! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 06, 2019, 08:57:38 AM
 :ThumbsUp:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on January 06, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying the build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on January 06, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
 :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 06, 2019, 12:31:31 PM
For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 06, 2019, 12:36:30 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
Thanks for following along Rich and Thomas!

For temporary soft jaws for your vise, just mill some aluminum in the form of "angle iron" that sits on top of the steel jaws.
I'll probably do that) though this is working at the moment :)

I was hoping to be able to screw in some soft jaws. I've heard that if you clamp things only in the top part of the jaws, the ones held by magnets can flip up, if that makes sense.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2019, 05:52:01 PM
Hi Kim

Following along, and enjoying it.  I've got the book, and even got around to drawing up a BOM a few years ago...
Maybe seeing you progress will get me off my behind...

Cheers, Joe

Yes! you should definately start this project! While it does challenge me, Kozo breaks everything up into manageable steps. I've found it quite rewarding, so far!

It'd be grea to have a couple of A3 builds going at once :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 06, 2019, 07:47:40 PM
You are making great progress Kim. The good thing about the Kozo trains is that you can make so many sub assemblies and get a feel good factor. There are so many hints and tips in the book even if you don't or can't follow them you can certainly get the general idea.

Over the years I have tried to make short cuts with holding jobs for a one off and fallen fowl. Now I just make soft jaws and fix them in. At work I purchased a length of ally and pre made a pile of them to fit the vices.

 :facepalm:owe yes the w word! Back in tomorrow  :toilet_claw:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 07, 2019, 12:49:11 AM
Hi Kim

Lots of nice work going on here, won't be too long and you will have some assemblies that you can push around on the bench. :Lol:
I had missed the post about the soft jaws, after seeing some comments I had to go back and look for it.
You should be able to drill the head off of the screw then after the jaw is removed there should be enough of the screw sticking out that you could grab it with some vise grips.
If you use a left hand drill bit, lots of time the screw will back out as you are drilling.

Don't know if you remember this thread or not. Might be good for some ideas. :)
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6105.msg121984.html#msg121984

I have been using some sheet aluminum covers on my 6" vise that are way beyond their useful life. An engine collector friend gave me some nice copper bars the other day so I can make a decent set of jaws for this vise too.

Everything is looking great!
Dave


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2019, 05:47:48 AM
Thanks Steve and Dave,

Yes, I do remember that thread, Dave! Are those jaws still just as pristine looking today?  :LittleDevil:
Yeah, that's probably what I'll do, is drill the heads off the screws.  Just a bit frustrating.  Why would they put the screws on so tightly for removable jaws?   Doesn't make sense to me.  Maybe they put Loctite on them, which even makes LESS sense.  But since I got 2 of them out, I doubt that's the case.

Anyway, I'll deal with it some day.  And I'll make some really pretty soft jaws like you have Dave!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2019, 11:56:46 PM
Last shop session, I’d left off having cut and stress-relieved the bolster blanks, and them made the 3o jig that will be used in fabricating the bolsters.

First, I took the bolster blanks and milled them all to length (which was 5 3/16”, just in case  you care).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-1-DSC_5328.jpg)

The two upper bolsters need to be 19/32” thick, and the material I have is 5/8” thick , so I need to loose 1/32”.  My plan was to shave a bit off each side, to decrease the chance of the part going all banana on me. I started in using a 1/2" carbide 4-flute end mill.  This took too passes which produced the familiar line down the middle of the part.  Not a biggie.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-2-DSC_5332.jpg)

But then I remembered that I had a cool new tool that I got when I purchased the Grizzly mill – a 2 1/2" face mill!  Figured I should give that a try! Wouldn’t want any of my tools to feel left out, would we?
It worked quite well!  And I could do the 3/4” wide piece in a single pass.  And gave a very nice finish too!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-3-DSC_5334.jpg)

After shaving the upper bolsters to width, it was time to cut the grooves that the columns will slide into. These grooves will be at a 3o angle, which is where that cool jig comes in. Now, I didn’t show it very well in this picture, but the bolster is clamped between those two parts with the 3o faces.  It worked amazingly well!
I made 3 passes with a 1/4" HSS end mill to cut the 0.315” wide angled groove (one down the center, then one along each edge to get the proper width).  0.315" is just a few thou over 5/16”, which is the width of the columns (just in case you don’t remember – cause I never would if it wasn’t my build).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-4-DSC_5337.jpg)

I had to cut 4 of these – two on each side of the upper bolsters.  The trick was remembering to make the 3o angle face the correct direction (narrower at the top).  Luckily, I was able to maintain my attention the whole time and did them all correctly.  You can see in the next picture that I’d labeled one side of the bolsters as ‘Top’ to help ensure the angle was sloping the correct way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-5-DSC_5340.jpg)

With the column slid in place, you can see how the angle will give the truck some wiggle room and allow it to move a bit as it goes over the track.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-6-DSC_5342.jpg)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007b-Bolsters-7-DSC_5343.jpg)

That’s where I ended the day.  I’ll need to cut similar groves in the lower bolsters, then drill some holes to retain the springs that provide the suspension for the trucks.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2019, 12:19:57 AM
Very well done, watching along with great interest!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2019, 05:59:54 AM
Thanks Chris :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 13, 2019, 06:34:49 AM
That wiggle room is evident many places in his designs. It shows the complete nature of his understanding of how things work.

It's the first thing that grabbed me when I first saw his book. Then had to buy it. :whoohoo:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 13, 2019, 06:53:42 PM
Getting to the stage when you can start bolting thins together. It's amazing how w :censored: gets in the way and we are reduced to weekends.

Looking really good and can't wait  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:28:10 AM
Thanks Pete and Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2019, 02:30:41 AM
Today I focused on the lower bolsters, cutting the slots in those.

First cuts were identical to the upper bolsters – ~5/16” wide slots sloped at 3o on each side.  This was tricky because the BOTTOM was narrower for the lower bolsters (opposite of the upper bolsters).  I got that all right!

Then, I needed to cut a similar 3o angled slot across the bottom of these parts – connecting the side slots.  First I did one side, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-1-DSC_5346.jpg)

Then flipped it around (and the angle jig too) and did the other side.
The peak of this one didn’t come out ‘exactly’ on center, which means one side raised up a bit when I tightened the vise. But I figure it can’t make THAT much difference to have this shallow peak off center by a fraction of an inch.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-2-DSC_5350.jpg)

Here’s a better one:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-3-DSC_5353.jpg)

And here they are all mock assembled with the upper bolster and the columns:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007c-Bolsters-4-DSC_5354.jpg)

Unfortunately, as I was fitting them together, I realized that I’d cut the connecting slots of one of the lower bolsters on the TOP instead of the bottom.  But I didn’t really notice it till some time during the fitting.  And as it turns out, I can’t really tell a difference in the movement of the ‘right side up’ one and the ‘upside down’ one. Which makes sense, as there really isn’t much difference in height a 3o slope over 1/4".

Anyway, I’m currently planning on not worrying about that blunder.  I don’t think its going to make a noticeable difference in how the tender moves.  If I change my mind as I’m going along, I can always re-make that lower bolster.  But as I said, I don’t notice any appreciable movement difference between them when assembled.  Maybe it will look different when I get the springs in place?  We’ll see.

Just one moment of inattention caused this dilemma. I’m sure it was that I was hurrying to get this step done before I went in.  Hurrying is always a bad idea.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 12:04:30 AM
Today I completed the bolsters.  Last session I'd just I’d screwed up one of the lower bolsters by milling the slots on the wrong side. My plan was to ignore it and go on.  However, that bothered me.  And even though it didn’t act ‘much’ different, I could still tell the difference in how the bolster moved inside the columns.  So, I decided to remake that part.  I’m sure, in the end it wouldn’t have made any real difference, especially for the amount of time I plan to actually run this on a track.  But it bothered me and so I remade the part.

Here’s the new part – the one on the bottom is new, the one on the top, with the X’s is the bad one.  It’s hard to see the difference in this shot, but it’s the direction of the 3o side slope in the grooves on the ends of bolsters.  The new one is brighter than the old ones because I didn't bother to stress relieve the new one.  I only did the original ones because I had to do it for the upper bolsters, so why not?  But I didn't think it was really required for the lower bolsters, and I believe I was right.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-1-DSC_5362.jpg)

After remaking that part, I drilled the holes that will retain the suspension springs.  I set it up for one of the holes, then did ONE hole on each end of the upper and lower bolsers.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-2-DSC_5359.jpg)

Then I moved the position of the mill and did the matching hole on each end of all bolsters.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-3-DSC_5365.jpg)

The upper bolster had several holes that needed to be drilled.  The center hole for the pivot pin, and threaded holes where the side bearings will attach. Here’ after the holes are drilled and I’m tapping the side bearing holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-4-DSC_5367.jpg)

And to finish off the update, here’s a picture showing one set of bolsters stacked on the columns (no suspension springs yet) and the other set spread out for display.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/007d-Bolsters-5-DSC_5369.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2019, 12:42:32 AM
Things are looking good Kim. Great to see a new update on your progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2019, 12:44:58 AM
Nice work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2019, 05:09:18 AM
Thanks for stopping by for a look Bill and Dave! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
Hi Kim, again a lot of progress.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Thanks Achim!
Slow and steady progress is about the best I can do!  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2019, 11:04:54 PM
Today, I made the side bearings.  These are little blocks that slide along the underside of the tender frame to keep the trucks from flopping around.  They will also limit the rotational movement of the trucks.

These are made from 1-3/16” lengths of 3/8”x3/4” 1018 bar.  I cut four pieces, then milled the ends to length.

Next was to cut the rotational limiting tabs on each end of the side bearings.  These are supposed to be 1/8” thick, and 1/8” tall. I started by taking a swath out of the middle of the bearing.  I used this operation to set the depth of cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-1-DSC_5374.jpg)

With the depth set, I just needed to finish off each end.  So I set the x axis so that it left 1/8” tab on the far end, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-2-DSC_5375.jpg)

Then I flipped the piece around and, using exactly the same settings, did the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-3-DSC_5378.jpg)

Next we need to make mounting holes.  I used a #37 drill for a close fitting 3-48 clearance hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-4-DSC_5379.jpg)

And finally, I made a 3/8” counter sink with a #3 drill.  For both of these operations, I did one side, then flipped the part around to do the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-5-DSC_5381.jpg)

And here’s all four side bearings complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-6-DSC_5384.jpg)

And now a family shot of all the truck parts I’ve made so far.  Going clockwise starting in the upper right hand corner we have the journal boxes, then the axle bearings, the lower bolsters, the upper bolsters, the columns, and the side bearings (in the center top).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/008a-SideBearings-7-DSC_5389.jpg)

And that, my friends, is all I could do today.  Doesn’t seem like so much, but it sure takes me a while to do it!

I’m getting pretty excited – all I have left for the trucks are the Arch Bars and the suspension springs!  And then, of course I have to paint them.  But it’s getting close!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 21, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
Everything looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2019, 11:57:04 PM
Thanks Dave!  Didn't mean to ignore you there, guess I just forgot to reply!


Chapter 3.5 – Tie Bars and Arch Bars
Next up are the Tie Bars and the Arch Bars.  There are 3 different types of bars: the Tie Bars (7), the Lower Arch Bars (8 ), and the Upper Arch Bars (9). I thought I'd include this picture here since I know I couldn’t begin to imagine how it all came together without a picture:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-0-Capture.JPG)

Since there are 2 trucks, and each truck has two sets of wheels (one set on each side), we need to make 4 copies of each bar.  This will make for a total of 12 bars.

I made the bar blanks several weeks ago, back when I started the columns, since they needed some of the sheet stock cut to the same size.  You can look back in Reply 157  (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg191121.html#msg191121)  if you want to see that.

Before attacking the bars, I need to make the bar bending and drilling jig.  Now, this Jig doesn’t exactly help you to bend the parts, but it does help to make sure you bend them to the correct angles. To make the bending jig, I started with a 4 5/8” length of the same metal bar that will be  used for the Arch bars (3/32” thick).  I drilled 6 holes in it.  The two in the middle are for the columns, the 4 on the outside ends are for the journal boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-1-DSC_5392.jpg)

Then I shaped, drilled and tapped the upright pieces.  There are two of these.  One for the Tie bar and the upper arch bar.  They have a 5/16” rise.  The other one is for the lower arch bar, which has a 1” rise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-2-DSC_5394.jpg)

Here are the completed jig pieces, with it assembled for use on the 5/16” rise bars.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-3-DSC_5401.jpg)


For bending the bars, Kozo makes a more elaborate punch and die type bender that replaces the jaws in your vice.  I chose to just go ahead and use the soft jaws directly.  This won’t work for all parts, but it should work just fine for these.  I’m using the aluminum covered jaws on the vice, and a cheap pair of sheet metal hand seamers to bend the bar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-4-DSC_5403.jpg)

This shows how your supposed to use the bending jig; It indicates how much bend to put in each side.  You have to make sure that the bar crosses the jig at the scribed line on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009a-TieAndArchBars-5-DSC_5398.jpg)

Next I’ll bend the ends of the bars and then drill holes.  Oh yeah, and make another dozen of them!

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on January 27, 2019, 12:42:34 AM
 :praise2:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on January 27, 2019, 01:44:24 AM
Ain’t said much, but, I’m really enjoying all this. These builds are definitely like the old “eating an elephant “ references: it’s just one bite at a time. Great work Kim.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 27, 2019, 02:13:01 AM
I remember reading the installment for making those arch bars......Yup   Eating the elephant!    coming along great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 27, 2019, 03:30:35 AM
Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional. Very impressive though!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:29:25 AM
Thanks Pete, Cletus, Dave, and Bill!
Appreciate the comments.

Though I can't claim to have actually eaten an elephant, the description sounds pretty apt.  One bite at a time.  :Lol:

Great progress Kim and that assembly picture helps a lot, though I am still looking forward to seeing them assembled and functional.
I looked at my original post and apparently my number 8 came out as a sunglasses guy (8), so I had to go back and add a space to keep the parser from turning into an emoji!  (I'd put the numbers in parentheses which is what created the emoji, like ( 8 ) but without the spaces).  Anyway, hopefully that makes a little more sense than the cool sunglasses guy  :embarassed:

And I'm looking forward to seeing it assembled too! Just a few more bites of the elephant, and I'll hit that milestone! :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on January 27, 2019, 08:34:38 AM
Looking really good and you've made it look so easy  :praise2:
Can't wait for the next instalment  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2019, 05:38:09 PM
Thanks Steve!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 04, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I like your stress relieving oven  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I must buy a few more insulating bricks  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:33:36 AM
Thanks Roger! Yes, those bricks are a big help.  I've often thought I should get another set.  I keep wishing I had one or two more!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 12:40:38 AM
My how time flies!  Not a lot of shop time over the last few weeks, but I finally got some time today. And it was quite enjoyable!

Last time I’d just started bending the Tie Bars.  I started with them because they were only 1/16” thick.  The Arch Bars are 3/32” thick! That’s getting pretty substantial!

After I bent the middle bends, I used the hole jig to drill the two middle holes to attach the columns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-01-DSC_5404.jpg)

I wasn’t very happy with how this went.  It worked, but it just felt squishy to me.  I could wiggle the bar back and fortha bit and it just didn’t feel as precise as I would like.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-02-DSC_5407.jpg)

Regardless, I finished up bending the four tie bars.  This wasn’t a fast process.  It took 15-20 minutes per bar to get things bent correctly so that it all lined up, wass just the right height, and didn’t have any twists in it anywhere.  I just found it took a lot of tweaking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-03-DSC_5408.jpg)

For the next set of bars (Lower Arch Bars) I used a different technique.  I calculated the location of the center holes and drilled them first.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-04-DSC_5412.jpg)

Then I marked the locations where the bends should go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-05-DSC_5420.jpg)

The problem with drilling the holes first is that when you go to bend the bars, it wants to bend in the weakest spot – right where the hole is!  :Duh: But, as long as I clamped over the hole and bent the other side it worked just fine.  And I feel that the holes came out much more predictably.

Here’s one of the Lower Arch Bar fitted to the bending pattern.  Again, quite the time consuming process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-06-DSC_5424.jpg)

And this picture shows the set of 12 bars with the column holes drilled and bent to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-07-DSC_5425.jpg)

To drill the outer holes (the ones for the journal boxes) I was going to go back to the drilling jig. But before I did that, I needed to re-make the hole guide.  Turns out that my first attempt had a couple of problems.  First, the cross bar was too flimsy (I used 1/16” sheet material).  And second, the holes weren’t centered.  They were in the correct positions lengthwise, just not centered.  So, I made a new one using some 1/8” 1018 steel. This one turned out much better.  The bottom one is the original one (note the non-centered holes), and the top one is the new one (with the more centered hole pattern).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-14-DSC_5415.jpg)

And here’s how I drilled the holes for the journal boxes.  Attach one of the bars to the jig, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-09-DSC_5436.jpg)

Flipping it over, you can see the template with the hole pattern.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-10-DSC_5437.jpg)

Then I just drilled the holes!  The little brass bar clamp is just to keep the bars aligned with the jig.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-08-DSC_5434.jpg)

And did the same thing with the Upper Arch Bar and the Tie Bar (they are the same, with the exception of the thickness of the bar).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-11-DSC_5440.jpg)

And finally, we have all 12 bars bent and drilled!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-12-DSC_5443.jpg)

By this time it was getting to be the end of my shop time but I just had to get one of the frames assembled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009b-TieAndarchBars-13-DSC_5445.jpg)

You can’t imagine how happy this little piece here made me!  I still have to cut the bars to the correct length, but that’ll be the next step.

Getting close to having the trucks complete!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 10, 2019, 12:47:31 AM
That is a lot of tedious work there Kim, but it sure looks good assembled. One down, three to go  :cartwheel:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 10, 2019, 01:10:35 AM
Nice progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 10, 2019, 01:17:07 AM
Very nice!

Those little brass bar clamps are handy, got a set of those that come out once in a while for holding bits on.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
Thanks Bill, Dave, and Chris,

Yeah, those little brass bar clamps do com in handy from time to time.  You can't exert a lot of pressure with them, but for little things like this, the work great!  Those are from back when i was doing some ship modeling.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 10, 2019, 10:04:00 AM
Hello Kim,

Coming along quite nicely.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 10, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
Really taking shape now, it sure is time consuming putting holes in bent bars and getting it all to tie up.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 10, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
I hadn't seen that type of bar clamp before.  Looks useful.  Good progress being made.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 04:26:34 PM
Thomas, Steve and Kvom,
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!  I do appreciate it :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 10, 2019, 10:01:41 PM
Very nice build so far Kim  :praise2:

I'm enjoying your progress and parts made  :cheers:    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on February 10, 2019, 11:33:50 PM
Really nice Kim. I admire how you try to hold everything to the closet tolerance in the beginning and that pays off in the end. If you have more bending to do, think about hardwood dies. They can easily be cut and shaped, the grain isn’t going to split, and, you can easily adjust angles for springback. For thinner stocks, something about the wood makes things slide easier.

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2019, 11:40:37 PM
Thanks Admiral and Cletus,
Hadn't thought about using Wood for a die for bending... Wonder if it would hold up to repeated use (repeated 10-12 times).  The Aluminum jaws on my vise were starting to deform some on the edges after working over the dozen parts I had to make here!
Interesting idea for sure.  One I'll have to consider in the future :)  Guess its not that much different than using hard wood for forming copper, eh?
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 01:24:52 AM
Nice work! I found the arch bars to be tricky - and that was with brass!

Figuring out where to start the bends, especially on the ends that hold the axle blocks, was particularly fussy - it’s hard to get the height right while nailing the position of the bend. Too long and it interferes with the screw heads (especially if using  hex heads). Too short and it does not look right, or at least hard to get them to look identical front to back.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2019, 05:22:59 AM
Thank you Matthew!
Yes, those were quite the fiddly bits to be sure!

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2019, 12:01:56 PM

I'd love to see your Pennsy.  Do you have a build thread going?  Don't remember seeing it.  If not, you should one and post a few progress photos!

Kim

I will try to remember to create one and show an occasional progress photo. I get so little shop time I try to maximize it. If folks would find value with random leaps of progress I’ll try to pull one together  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steve17 on February 11, 2019, 09:00:00 PM
Hi Kim,
I was always recommend to go down to a Lawn bowling club and ask if they had any split woods. They are rock hard and stable.

Steve.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 02:24:12 AM
Thanks for the pointer Steve!

Here's my update for this weekend.

It took me a while to come up with a way to cut the bars to length, but this is what I ended up doing; I made a stack-up of the bars – not in the right order, but all in the same orientation.  I included the hole jig in the stack-up and used that as the reference length.

In this picture, the bottom is a correctly assembled truck frame.  On the top, is the various bars, assembled with the jig, ready to be cut to length.  You can see that the bars are in a different order in the stack, but all are the correct orientation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-01-DSC_5454.jpg)

Here is one of the stack-ups being milled to length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-02-DSC_5446.jpg)

To assemble the trucks, I needed some #3-48 1/4" round-head screws.  And I couldn’t find any 1/4" for sale.  I found 1/8”, and 5/16”, but no 1/4".  Not a lot of difference but the 5/16” were just too long.  Since I need a bunch of 3-48 x 1/4" I made a jig to help me cut them to size more quickly.  I know I’ve seen this several other places on this forum, but I don’t remember exactly who showed it, so will just give general credit to the list :).  I drilled and tapped a bunch of holes in a scrap piece of 1/4" aluminum bar then filled all the holes with the screws to be shortened.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-03-DSC_5449.jpg)

I put the whole jig in the mill upside-down, and shaved off the excess lenght.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-04-DSC_5451.jpg)

I was able to do 8 screws at a whack this way which made it pretty fast to do a bunch of them. And unscrewing them from the jig helped clean up the threads.  Worked a treat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-05-DSC_5453.jpg)

After I test assembled all the truck frames, I found they weren’t quite square with the world.  They would wiggle around when placed on a flat surface.  So I used the vice and a crescent wrench to encourage them to lay flat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-06-DSC_5458.jpg)

And here are all four of the truck frames!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-07-DSC_5460.jpg)

With them all assembled successfully, it was time to take them apart and carefully mark each piece so I can get them back together in the same way.  I still have to assemble them around the bolsters!  If you look closely, you might be able to see the little numbers punched into the inside of the journal boxes.  There are numbers on the inside of each end of the bars and columns too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-09-DSC_5467.jpg)

I’m getting close to assembly time for the trucks, and before I get there, I needed to Loctite the wheels to the axles.  I’ve not used Loctite 680 before, but it is thick green stuff. It says it is designed for slip-fit joints. It was a bit messy, but seems to have worked pretty well!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-10-DSC_5457.jpg)

The last thing needed before I can assemble the trucks are the suspension springs. So, first I made the mandrel (0.145” diameter).  And then I tried making a spring.  I forgot to take a picture of that – maybe next time!  But here’s my first attempt.  It seemed to go, OK, but my second attempt isn’t really worth showing.  I’m going to have to practice this!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/009c-TenderArchBars-08-DSC_5464.jpg)

That’s my weekend’s accomplishment.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 19, 2019, 02:43:58 AM
Those arch bars look really good, Kim. I've never built anything that didn't require tweaking, especially bent stuff. I'm eagerly awaiting the day those all go together!
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 04:40:29 AM
Thanks Pete!  Appreciate the encouragement :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 19, 2019, 01:13:33 PM
They look fantastic Kim. Also looking forward to seeing the trucks assembled. Do you have a section of track to try them out on?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 19, 2019, 01:45:54 PM
Yes those are looking fantastic!   Now do they stay bolted together?  or do you silver solder them once complete?   :headscratch:


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
Dave, this part just remains bolted together as best as I can tell.  Hopefully that's good enough?  I'm sure it will be for the number of miles (feet?  inches?) my loco will run :)

Bill, no, I don't have any track!  That's something I'm going to have to figure out soon here, isn't it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 19, 2019, 10:39:38 PM
Any material can be used for "shop" tracks.  Just need to make the gauge correct.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 12:38:21 AM
Chapter 3.6 – Coil Springs
Now to do the coil springs.  Yesterday, I started making the springs in earnest.  Or what I should really say, is making practices springs!  ::)

After a while, I got a process down.  I tried free hand first, but that didn’t work so well. They just didn’t look even.  So I set my lathe to do 12 TPI threads and used that to lay the coils. That worked quite well and made things look very regular.  The reason I didn't start that way is because doing course threads like this required a gear change and I wanted to avoid that.  I should have just started that way. It was clearly MUCH better! 

I would lay a couple of rounds very close, engage the half-nut, run about 7 turns, then disengage the half-nut and make a couple more close turns.  I got better at this with practice too.  Here’s a pretty nice one just before it came off the manderel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-1-DSC_5470.jpg)

And here’s my fleet of springs (and garbage) from my work. The bottom row are my initial practice springs and me trying to get the right TPI spacing on the coils.  The upper row is as I was improving.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-2-DSC_5471.jpg)

This is also straight out of  Kozo’s book.  I punched a 1/4" hole in a piece of scrap and clamped it onto the rest on my grinder.  This worked really well to flatten of the ends of the coils and get them to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-3-DSC_5475.jpg)

And the final contenders for the springs.  I chose the best 8 of these to use in the trucks. The others are spares for when I inevitably lose one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-4-DSC_5480.jpg)

Then it was finally time to assemble the trucks.  This took an inordinate amount of time. There are a lot of pieces and the all have a specific direction to go.  When I got the second frame assembled, I realized I’d done the first one upside down.  So, I fixed that. Then I realized I’d done the second one inside out.  So, I re-did that.  It took me till the last side frame to get it together right the first time.  Then I realized I had to put the wheels in before I got it all assembled.  So back apart and together again!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-5-DSC_5481.jpg)

Anyway, after all that, I’m super pleased with how they look. They are just a bit too fun!  :cartwheel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/010a-TenderCoilSprings-6-DSC_5485.jpg)

Next, I get to start on the frame for the tender!

Thanks for watching,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 25, 2019, 04:07:23 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:

Everything looks just great on the trucks! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on February 25, 2019, 04:40:15 AM
There's no doubt that you know how to assemble those trucks now! Beautiful! I'd want a bit of track to roll 'em around on.... toot toot...   And you now know how to make springs. Excellent! :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 05:53:55 AM
Hi Kim, looks like spring's a bit early this year in your shop!  :naughty:
  :Lol:
Yeah, I wish. They're saying its going to snow more tonight!  ::)

Thanks CNR and Pete!  Yes, I think I've got the assembly process down.  And if not now, I will after I take it apart, paint it, and re-assemble!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gary.a.ayres on February 25, 2019, 09:33:28 AM
Superb work, I reckon.

 :ThumbsUp:

gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 25, 2019, 10:04:15 AM
Hello Kim,

More beautiful craftsmanship from your shop. Really enjoying following this build.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 25, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on February 25, 2019, 12:12:56 PM
Looking great, Kim!  You're giving me a flashback to the late 60's... "Keep on Truckin' Brother...."

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on February 25, 2019, 12:58:14 PM
Very very nice Kim!! I can definitely see where the assembly could get a bit confusing too  :headscratch:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Hi Gary, Thomas, Admiral, Joe, and Bill,
Thanks for stopping by to have a look!  I'm pretty pumped about it for sure :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 06:23:35 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
Fantastic result Kim - the springs and trucks looks amassing  :praise2:

If I had walked and started commenting on the result I would have say that the boogies looks great, but you call them trucks - is this a country specific name ? :noidea:

Interesting observation.  Yeah, I've heard of bogies before.  I was into Lego trains for many years (I am an Adult Fan of Lego (AFOL, if you will)) and since Lego is based out of Europe, the parts to make the truck were always called bogies.  I never understood it, but used the term.  I had to look this up. And of course, Wiki has the answer:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogie)
"A bogie in the UK, or a railroad truck, wheel truck, or simply truck in North America, is a structure underneath a railway vehicle (wagon, coach or locomotive) to which axles (and, hence, wheels) are attached through bearings. In Indian English, bogie may also refer to an entire railway carriage.[4] In South Africa, the term bogie is often alternatively used to refer to a freight or goods wagon (shortened from bogie wagon)."

So, yes, you're right.  It's one of those differences caused by the Atlantic ocean apparently - bogie vs truck.

I learn something every day on this forum!
Kim
I was wondering about that too, figured it was one of those regional or time things. Though it does get more complicated if you need to transport a wheel assembly to the shop across town - do you put the bogie on the truck (flatbed, that is), or the truck on the truck, or the truck on the lorry....  :insane:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on February 25, 2019, 09:25:22 PM
Bogies and trucks, points and switches, sleepers and ties, a different language is used in the US, the rest of us have to be bilingual!

But strangely they use the UK version in Georgia, but then you have to understand the rest of their lingo.

You sometimes have strange experiences on a multinational project.  Can catch you out sometimes, just when you think you know what’s going on.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 25, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
As compared to a bogey, which is completely different. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 25, 2019, 11:29:29 PM
Nice family shot Kim.
They look great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 11:59:50 PM
Thanks Dave, Kvom, and MJM,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:36:16 AM
Last week I painted the tender trucks.  I took them all apart and spray painted them with a flat black paint.  I’m using Rust-oleum High Temp. I figure this is what I’ll need for the boiler and firebox, so just decided to use it for everything that’s black (which is almost everything!).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-1-DSC_5488.jpg)

Here’s the family shot, after I took the tape off of everything.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-2-DSC_5491.jpg)

And here we are after assembly. There are already bumps and marks that I’m going to have to touch up!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/011a-TenderTrucksPaint-3-DSC_5496.jpg)

That does it for the trucks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 01:41:37 AM
Today, I started on the Tender Frame.  The first part will be the frame sides. Which Kozo calls the Side Sills. 

Chapter 4.1 – Side Sills
There are two of these, a left and a right.  They are pretty much the same.

I cut two lengths of 5/16” x 5/8” 1018 bar stock, 15 3/16” long.  The part is 15 1/8 but I left a bit to clean up the ends.  Since these pieces are staying mostly intact, I didn’t bother to stress relieve them.  Though I did use my vice and some brute force to get them as straight as possible!

But before I did a lot of work on these long pieces, I decided it was worth investing some time to tram the mill.  I also squared up the vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-1-DSC_5498.jpg)

With that taken care of, I clamped the pair of bars in the vise and cleaned up one end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-2-DSC_5503.jpg)

With one edge clearly defined, I used that as my reference to drill the holes in the side that will hold the bolsters. These are identical holes through both left and right sides. Then I made a 82o counter sink in each hole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-3-DSC_5504.jpg)

Before taking the side sills out of the vice, I placed #3 screws in each hole and bolted it up to keep the pieces perfectly aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-4-DSC_5514.jpg)

Then I was able to release the vise and moved the part to where I could reach the other end of it to clean them both up to exactly 15 1/8”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-5-DSC_5507.jpg)

Following that, I flipped it over and made counter sinks on the outside of the other sill. Guess I didn’t have to keep the two sides lined up for this operation, but I did anyway.  I also marked them so I’d know which way was ‘top’ on both sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-6-DSC_5516.jpg)

And here are the mostly completed side sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/012a-SideSills-7-DSC_5518.jpg)

I still need to drill and tap holes in each end, but I’m going to wait on those till I can use the holes in the front and rear sills as guides to make sure they line up well.  But that will be for next time!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2019, 06:26:05 AM
Hi Kim, nice family shot. They are looking good these trucks.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 10, 2019, 01:36:38 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 10, 2019, 02:10:00 PM
Still making some nice progress Kim. The finished trucks look great!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:48:22 PM
Thanks Achim, Cnr and Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Sills look great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Re your lineup marks - maybe not strictly required in this case, but I think it's a good habit to get into to "think precision" in all ops. The easy ones are still easy but the tough ones are less tough, with this approach.

Standing by with  :popcorn:!
Yeah, you're right, it may not make much, if any difference in this case.  But since I machined them together this way I just want to be able to keep track of that. Sometimes it does matter, so I just try to maintain good habits :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:10:49 PM
Excellent work Kim. Might be time to think about a powder coating setup ( won’t chip as bad) BTW, a truck is also the adornment on top of a flagpole  8). Following along  :popcorn: :DrinkPint:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
Interesting thought, Cletus!  I may have to look into that.  Do you know if powder coating is ok with getting hot?  Like around a boiler or fire box?   :thinking:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
Don’t really know. Check out Eastwood’s website. I’ve been seriously thinking about it what for the chipping reasons. I know KVOM and Stan both use theirs.

Cletus

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on March 10, 2019, 10:14:12 PM
Here’s some more info

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/high-temp-gloss-black.html

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on March 12, 2019, 05:06:13 AM
Hi Kim,
 Coming on nicely!

Check out Nelson’s site for using hi temppowdercoat, I got inspired by this & got my kit about well way to long ago, still to be used!

http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/

Oh if nothing else it’s a great site to spend several hours reading!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 04:09:02 PM
Yesterday, I completed the Front and Rear End Sills and attached them to the side sills.  It was a pretty good day, but ended in frustration.  :wallbang:

Chapter 4.2 – Front End Sill and Rear End Sill
These will go on the front and back of the side sills to make a complete rectangle for the tender frame.

The Front End Sill and Rear End Sill both started as lengths of 5/8” square 12L14.  Cut to length and squared up to size.
These are not really very remarkable in any way. They just have a few through holes and tapped holes.

So I set to work on the Front End Sill first.  These are #3 clearance holes for the screws that will hold the Front End to the Side Sills.  And this shot is just after completing the 82o countersink in each of them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5522.jpg)

There are a bunch of #3-48 tapped holes too, but apparently, I didn’t get a picture of those.

On to the Rear End Sill.  This is very similar to the Front End Sill, but its 1/8” longer. The Rear End sill will stick out from the side sills by 1/16” on each side. The #3 countersink clearance holes are the same but the #3-48 tapped holes are all different.

There are also some holes for the rear coupler.  These will need to be drilled when I get that assembly completed.  But now that I have it all dialed in on the mill, I chose to leave a few marks on ‘about’ where they should go so that it's easier to position when I get to that point.  I scribed these with a small engraving bit I have.  It did the job nicely.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5524.jpg)

The Rear End Sill also has a couple of #8-36 tapped holes. These will be for rail posts down the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5527.jpg)

Here are the completed Front End and Rear End Sills.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5530.jpg)

Now for the fun!  I hadn’t quite figured out yet how I was going to drill and tap the holes in the ends of the Side Sills.  These things are over 15” long and even with my new big mill I don’t have the Z height to stand them up on end and still get the drill chuck and a bit in there. So, I worked out this method.  I awkwardly clamped the two pieces together, like this.  I had scrap pieces on the back and the side to help with alignment. You really can't make out what I did in this picture, can you?  Well, it seemed to work regardless.  :embarassed:
I used the clearance bit through the End Sill just to make a center hole.  Then I switched to the correct size for taping and continued to use the End Sill as a guide to help me keep the hole straight.  You can see the cordless drill sitting there on the vise waiting to do his job.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5536.jpg)

With the hole drilled, I took away all the fixturing, and making sure to clamp the piece at 90o to the vice jaws, I used a tap guide to help me tap the hole.  Again, this seemed to work pretty well.  Notice that I clamped the guide in place for added stability.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5539.jpg)

Unfortunately, this is where calamity struck.  On the LAST hole, I must have gotten a little careless, because I heard the dreaded crunching sound.  :o :'( :Mad:  I don’t know exactly what happened. I’d swear I was doing exactly the same thing as the other 7 holes I’d done this way. But clearly, I did something wrong.  Well, actually, I do know that I didn’t clamp the tapping guide in place.  I’d stopped doing that for the last several holes, just depending on my other hand to hold it in place.  That had worked for several holes.  But then this. Clearly, I let it shift or did something wrong.  Because here I am now with a two-piece tap, with one piece embedded firmly about 3/8” down in the hole. :wallbang:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5541.jpg)

There was no backing it out.  It's still there:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5543.jpg)

I’m considering what to do. While the tap is HSS, the part is also steel. So I don’t think the Alum trick will work (though I’ve only had marginal success with that in the past anyway).  I’m trying to think of a way to cut the tap out, but there’s so little material to work with.  The hole is centred 1/8” away from the top edge. And to make it worse, I don’t really have a way to get it in the mill to work on it.

My top thought at the moment is to see if I can chip away enough of the end of the tap to get a few threads exposed, then I can just make a VERY short screw to go in on top of it.

I’m open to suggestions.

So, ignoring that issue for the time being, I assembled the frame:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5546.jpg)
I was very careful in setting up which end of which sill went together.  But in the end, when I went to assemble it, I realized I’d completely forgotten to take into account that the Side Sills are NOT symmetrical. They middle bolsters are in different places from each end.  And of course, I can never accidentally orient things correctly, so had done it backwards.  But, on the bright side, my holes were uniform enough that even with turning things around, all the edges still line up beautifully!  So that’s one positive!  :)

Now I just need to deal with the half a tap that’s embedded in the frame there…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5547.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look at my trials and tribulations,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 04:46:24 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, you will probably invest more time in trying to remove it than just remaking the part.

Not sure if you mill has enough travel that would allow you to hang your part off the front of the table, while clamped to an angle plate. Rotate the turret of your mill off center to be able to reach the part.
On the Bridgeport style mills being able to extend the ram helps with getting the spindle centered over the part. I don't think your mill has a ram? 

I have drilled cutting taps out using a center cutting 4 flute carbide end mill taking very small bites using the depth stop on the quill to control that. With a roll form tap you would need to use a large enough end mill to remove all of the tap followed with a thread insert (Helicoil). Oh and it usually takes more than one end mill to get through the tap.

Dave 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on March 31, 2019, 04:46:40 PM
Hey Kim

I would either try using a "plug drill bit" (selfmade from some kind of tool steel) to drill around the broken tap, then cut a bigger thread into that beam and put a threaded sleeve into it.
Or you cut off a short piece, machine a step onto it and then make another part which is being screwed, silver soldered (would be my favourite) or riveted to the original beam to make it long enough again.

To machine the end of the beam, you could probably use your lathe and clamp the bar in the toolholder while the tool gets put into the lathe spindle (ideally with coolets)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 05:17:11 PM
Last couple of times I had that happen I used a small pointed diamond-coated dental bur in the high speed  rotary tool to grind out the center of the tap, then could wiggle out the outer teeth/flutes with tweezers. Care is needed to keep from damaging the threads, but it works.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on March 31, 2019, 05:31:04 PM
Bummer on the tap Kim, but the frame is looking good none the less. I would probably just remake, the one with the broken tap. Likely quicker in the long run.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 06:21:56 PM
Hi Kim, do you know any mouldmakers? or any other local shop with EDM? If you were on this side of the continent you'd be welcome to drop by my shop to use my home-built EDM machine based on the Ben Fleming design. I would use a hex shaped brass electrode a little smaller than the thread and blow a hole a few mm deep into the tap. Then a normal allen key can be used to ease the tap out. For your next tapped holes, can I recommend a nice new sharp tap, and a few drops of some some good cutting oil?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:27:17 PM
Thanks Dave, Florian, Chris, and Bill,
Appreciate the commiseration and the advice.

Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...

Florian, another good idea.  I've seen people do this - put the part on the cross-slide and the tool in the spindle.  I don't have T-slots in the tool holder platform on my lathe, so I'd have to come up with some way to hold things, but that's probably workable.

I like the Dental burr idea too, Chris.  May have to try that before I abandon the part.

Bill, I may remake the part.  Unfortunately, this is a large piece and I don't have enough to make a new one without ordering more.  The steel is cheap (
Its 1018) but the shippings a killer...  but probably still cheaper than a couple of carbide end mills!

Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 06:31:03 PM
Thank you Cnr,
I didn't see your post till I'd replied.

The EDM sounds magical! I think I need one of those :)

Yeah, new tap seems in order for sure  :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2019, 07:09:37 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2019, 08:16:23 PM
Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2019, 08:43:01 PM


Dave, actually my mill does have a Ram head, and that a great idea!  I've got to learn how to use the capabilities of my new tools. I have to learn to think differently...


Thank you all for helping me to think of options.  I really appreciate it.
Kim

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2019, 10:40:05 PM
Kim, I just went back through your pictures in the posts above. The tap in the pics does not appear to have flutes, or maybe just one flute. Are you using thread forming taps in steel, rather than the more usual spiral pointed "gun" taps or "plug" taps? If you are using fluteless or thread forming taps in steel, I would expect you may have lots of breakages.

The gun taps will cut better and faster than any other kind I have used, especially in thru-holes. If using them in blind holes they have to be backed out and cleared of chips every few turns.

Just to give you an idea of the ones I mean you can see them at the following McMaster Carr link. I do prefer Butterfield or FEW brand HSS taps though, for quality of thread and staying sharp the longest.

https://www.mcmaster.com/spiral-point-taps

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it. Standing by with  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: for your next progress post.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
If you have another small chunk of the same steel, you could always cut off the end and silver solder a new end on it. I did that on my Shay frames after a measure-once-cut-twice boo-boo.
Considering this.  though as has been said, likely more trouble than its worth, but I might give it a shot anyway.  Maybe I'll go to double the work to NOT have to re-do work :)  But not 4x.  And Definitely not 10x. I have my limits!  :Lol:

Hi Kim, I feel your pain, but as already said, remake seems to be the best option.
And spend some more money for industrial quality tabs.
My two Cent after banning the Chinese stuff from my shop.
What may be the reason for that ban ?
Thanks Achim,  yeah, might go the remake route.  But I'm going to struggle with it for a bit before I go that way. Even though its likely the best option  ;)

I was looking for a picture, but me and the forum search tool don't always get along.  :lolb:
Yes, I've found the same.  The search engine built into the forum software is marginal at best.  I tend to have better luck just doing a google search and including "ModelEnginenMaker" in the search.  I often get better forum results that way!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
Hi Cnr,
Yes, you're seeing right. I'm using forming taps. And I've used them in steel before and they have mostly worked - I try to stay under 75% threads. These should have been about 60%. But maybe that is part of the problem.  They work well in the 12L14.  I've used them in 1018 quite a bit and haven't had any significant problems that I can recall (and I tend to recall this kind of problem). But clearly I can't say that any more!  So maybe I'm asking too much from them?

You're thinking I should go to a spiral tap for the 1018 steel?  I'm OK with getting more tools :)  May have to consider this.

If you already know about all this, or if I'm not seeing the taps correctly in your pics, please excuse me for stating the obvious - just disregard it.
Cnr, please never worry about that in any reply to me.  Even if I know it, it won't hurt to hear it again. And if people hold back giving me good advise, I'm the worse for it!  Besides, even if I knew it, I wasn't taking advantage of my knowledge because I clearly broke the tap! This is exactly why I share my foibles (and there are plenty of them!);  so I can learn and get incrementally better with every screw-up. ( I mean, I already messed up, so I might as well get something worthwhile out of it, right?  :Lol: )

Looks like I might be asking too much out of the form taps?  They've done so well for me in the past, even in steel.  But if they are going to be questionable, maybe I should invest in some spiral cutting taps or something else?  Am I asking too much from a form tap when it comes to 1018?  what about stainless (303)?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 01, 2019, 12:09:44 AM
Hi Kim

You should be able roll form tap any ductile material including SS. Personally for hand tapping I would rather use a cutting tap, and that is not saying hand tapping with a form tap is wrong; just my preference. I wouldn't hesitate to run a form tap under power in a machine or with a tapping head, but hand tap, probably not.
I think the form tap will be less forgiving to any misalignment. Another thing to consider as this is a forming operation and not a cutting one, the choice of lube may be different than with a cut tap. I would have to do some poking around to see what might be better.    Moly-Dee maybe?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:26:29 AM
Thanks Dave, appreciate the input.

I've been using my general purpose lube for the forming tap too - Magic Tap.  It has worked pretty well for most things, but I clearly don't know what would be best. It's just what I've got handy.

My reasoning for the form taps is that since they don't have any flutes, they have a larger cross-section and therefore should be stronger.  Again, this was my thinking (though I do think I read that somewhere, it still doesn't mean its correct).  Plus, I've had much better luck with the form taps than with cutting taps.

Or, at least I think I have.  It's hard to say though. I broke more taps early in my model machining career than I have lately. But that may or may not be only the tap. Hopefully, I'm getting better at my setups and keeping things carefully aligned during tapping. That might skew things to looking better regardless.  Over the last several years I've switched almost exclusively to form taps. I've been attributing my better luck with tapping to this.  But there are so many variables.  The form taps I've purchased are much higher quality than the cheap Chinese cutting taps I used initially. That, and the experience thing make me wonder if my faith in form taps might be misplaced. Help! I'm having an existential tap crisis!  :help:  :Jester:

I think I'll be looking at getting some quality cutting taps and seeing how those serve me...
Kim

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 12:29:34 AM
OK, my current-most-likely-plan-of-attack is to cut a 5/16”x 3/4" chunk from the corner of the side sill and silver solder a little piece of steel back in its place.

My first step would be to use a slitting saw to cut underneath the broken tap and then use an end mill to remove the chunk from the main part.  This way I don’t have to mill through the tap.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013a-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5549.jpg)


Then I’ll clean up the notch, cut an appropriately sized piece of steel, and solder in place.

I won’t get around to this till next weekend at the earliest, so I’m still not committed.  Please feel free to comment if you have any thoughts/recommendations.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 12:33:07 AM
Powder coating will be fine for everything except for possibly the stack.  Curing temp is typically 400F.  I've been using it on my latest project and don't expect to paint any models henceforth.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 01:04:01 AM
Thanks Kvom,
I've been looking into powder coating and think I know what I'll be asking for for my Birthday!  :)  Seems like a great idea!  Always game to try something new!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on April 01, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
Hey Kim

Why not using the hacksaw to cut that out and clean up with an endmill? IMHO, this should be the fastest way. (at least if your hacksaw blade is sharp)

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 01, 2019, 07:52:31 PM
Is the tapped hole really that deep?

You could try drilling it out using a carbide endmill.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2019, 10:08:06 PM
That's a good idea Florian!  Hack saw shouldn't be too hard :)

Kvom, well, its not 3/4" deep, but the tap is at least 3/8" deep, maybe a smidge more.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Tennessee Whiskey on April 01, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Commisioneratios on the tap. You’re on the right track: nip that corner out nice and square, silver solder in an oversized piece, and mill to dimension. Painting or powder coating will hide all sins. Nobody but us will know in the end. Just a Cletus POV  :lolb:

Cletus
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 03, 2019, 12:50:48 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible. I am surprised yours broke, especially if going for 60% thread. Did you use the tap drill size for 60% thread based on form tapping or cut tapping? My form tapping charts say to use a #43 drill @ 0.089" to get a 70% thread. A 2.3-mm drill would get you to 60%. I would expect to feel the driving getting really hard before you reached the tap's limit. The only time I have broken one is in the CNC by rapiding into the work after fat-fingering a bad Z value.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:16:07 AM
Thanks for the reply Rklopp,

Yes, this has been my experience (limited though it may be), that the tap gave me very clear signals when it was at the bottom.  It wasn't hard to feel the difference and to know when to stop.  Even in the 1018.  I'd done quite a few holes in 1018 in the past, and 7 others in these pieces just that same day.

But you're right - I was using a #43 drill and that results in a 70% thread, not the 60% that I claimed.  I don't have a 2.3mm drill.  Maybe I should get one though.  60% should be plenty for anything I'm doing here.

Well, I did order a nice Union Butterfield cutting tap to try out (it just arrived today).  It's surprising the difference you can feel in the sharpness of the tap compared to the import cutting taps I have.  I will likely give that a try on some of the steel too.

But it's nice to hear that you use the form taps in 1018 too.

I'm leaning toward the theory that I was getting careless in my excitement to finish the job and I likely moved my tap guide.  There was a bit of a wiggle between the two jaws of the vice. That's one of the reasons I was clamping it down to start with.  Anyway, what's done is done. And I re-leaned a lesson that I have learned before.  Don't hurry. You don't get there faster - take the time to make sure things are secure and won't move about.  It's worth it.  :facepalm2:

Thanks rklopp,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2019, 05:17:55 AM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on April 05, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
I love form taps for making threads in softer metals like 1018 even when hand tapping. I avoid cut taps whenever possible.

Oh, and I meant to ask... Why do you avoid cutting taps?  Inquiring minds want to know! :)
Kim
Form taps are much stouter and make no chips. The formed threads are typically stronger, too, due to the work hardening that occurs while forming the threads. Form taps do require more care with tap drill sizing that do cutting taps.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:15:34 AM
Thanks  rklopp, your reasoning makes sense!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 12:21:12 AM
I finished up the Side Sill repair today without a hitch, thanks in large part to the great advice from the forum members! :)

I started, as suggested, by using a hacksaw to cut a notch from the Side Sill. I started with the longer cut and it only took a couple of minutes to complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-01-DSC_5553.jpg)

The broken tap is out!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-02-DSC_5555.jpg)

And cleaned up the cut on the mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-03-DSC_5558.jpg)

I used a 3/4" length of 12L14 square bar for the patch.  This will be just a tad oversized in each dimension.  Here I’m squaring up the two sides that will be silver soldered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-04-DSC_5560.jpg)

I decided to use a #1-72 screw to hold the two pieces together while soldering. This shows me hand tapping the hole on the mill. I used a new Union Butterfield Spiral Point Plug tap and it worked like a dream!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-05-DSC_5561.jpg)

Before soldering, I made several punch marks on the edges to be soldered. This is a Kozo trick (that Chris uses all the time :)) to help maintain a small gap between the pieces so the solder will wick through.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-06-DSC_5566.jpg)

Here it is, all loaded up with flux and a few pieces of hard solder.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-07-DSC_5568.jpg)

The soldering went OK.  Not the best I’ve ever done, but not the worst. It took longer to heat up the part due to the large bar. But eventually, I got there.  I had to apply additional solder, but it worked out in the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-08-DSC_5569.jpg)

I let it cool, then pickled it for a bit and washed it up.  Then put it on the mill and started to take down the top.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-09-DSC_5573.jpg)

Then the sides and the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-10-DSC_5574.jpg)

Here’s how it looks after some filing and a bit of cleaning.  Not too bad, though you can still see some black that I didn’t get off in my cleaning up process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-11-DSC_5576.jpg)

Finally, I drilled and tapped it, as I’d done all the others (though this time, I used a new spiral point 3-48 plug tap).  All went well with the taping :).

After assembly, here’s the repaired corner:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-12-DSC_5578.jpg)

And the whole frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/013b-FrontAndRearEndSills-13-DSC_5582.jpg)

You'll never see the repair after it's painted (or powder coated, most likely - that's the direction I'm headed :) )

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 07, 2019, 12:33:03 AM
Looks great Kim, and as you say, once painted no one will ever know. Nice save.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 07, 2019, 01:40:11 AM
Excellent repair!!
 :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2019, 05:14:46 AM
Thanks Bill and Chris! :)
I'm quite pleased with it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 07, 2019, 07:51:30 AM
Top notch fix Kim! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:25:27 PM
Thanks Cnr!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2019, 03:27:46 PM
Chapter 4.3 – Front and Rear Bolster
These pieces connect across the frame and hold the front and rear trucks for the tender.

The Bolsters started as chunks of 5/8” square 12L14.  They were milled to final length (5 5/8”) on the mill, then I found the center and drilled a “D” sized hole for the pins that will hold the trucks on.  This is not a through hole and only goes 3/8” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-01-DSC_5583.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole for the screw that will retain the truck pin in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-02-DSC_5586.jpg)

To position the bolt holes for holding the bolsters to the frames, I needed to find the right vertical position.  To do this, I made a little scratch mark through the holes on the frame onto the ends of the bolsters:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-03-DSC_5587.jpg)

Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-04-DSC_5590.jpg)

The horizontal positions I was fine using the DRO.  They just needed to be 0.375” apart.  But the vertical position was critical to making the frame line up flat.

Mounted it in the mill and found the vertical position (Y, in this case).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-05-DSC_5592.jpg)

This is a shot of tapping the holes.
This shot also shows my setup for drilling the bolster ends. I actually used 2 Kant-Twist clamps on this setup (kept it more solid), but I started taking it down before I remembered to get a picture!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-06-DSC_5595.jpg)

Finally, I drilled two holes for #3-48 CSK screws in the Rear Bolster. These will be used later to attach the Tank Floor.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-07-DSC_5596.jpg)

And here’s the beauty shot of the two bolsters.  Not really much to look at, eh?
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-08-DSC_5601.jpg)

And bolted into place with the rest of the Tender Frame Family!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-09-DSC_5603.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/014a-FrontAndRearBolster-10-DSC_5604.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by to take a look at my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on April 14, 2019, 03:42:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 01:00:32 AM
Thanks Thomas!
Appreciate all the support I can get :)

Next up is the Drawbar that will connect the tender to the engine.

Chapter 4.4 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar

I start with the Drawbar Pocket, which will hold the Drawbar.  This was made from a short length of 5/16”x5/8” 1018 bar.  I cut it and trim it to width.  Then mill a dado in the middle where the drawbar will fasten. (Do you call grooves like this a dado in metal work?  Or is dado just a woodworking term?)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-01-DSC_5619.jpg)

I drill three holes – one in the center for the Drawbar Pin, and the two on the outside for the 3-48 screws that will hold it to the frame.  Here I’m adding the countersink to the holes for the fastening screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-02-DSC_5623.jpg)

Next, I remove the Front End Sill from the frame assembly and connect the drawbar pocket with two 3-48 screws.  Using the hole in the Drawbar Pocket as a guide I can now drill the frame so the holes line up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-03-DSC_5626.jpg)

With the drawbar Pocket completed, I move to the Drawbar itself.  The drawbar is specified to be 3/32” thick.  I couldn’t find any 3/32” thick steel bar, so I used 0.090” steel plate (4130a).  I cut a piece (slightly oversized) by putting my HF horizontal bandsaw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-04-DSC_5616.jpg)

Then milled it to the correct width of 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-05-DSC_5628.jpg)

Next, I drilled 2-56 clearance holes (#43) at the correct locations for the ends of the drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-06-DSC_5630.jpg)

Then used some 5/16” filing buttons to round the ends of the Drawbar.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-07-DSC_5632.jpg)

After rounding, I drilled them out to the specified size of 0.161” or a size #20 bit.  The reason I did the holes in two steps is because I already had some 5/16” filing buttons with a #43 sized hole. That made the re-use easy, and drilling the holes out afterward didn’t take very long at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-08-DSC_5634.jpg)

And here are all the pieces I made (or modified) today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-09-DSC_5636.jpg)

Here we are with the Drawbar pocket assembled onto the Front End Sill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-10-DSC_5638.jpg)

And now, in situ with the whole frame.  You can see I’m using a #8 screw to hold the drawbar in place.  Eventually, I’ll get around to making the actual Drawbar Pin :).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/015a-DrawBar_Pocket-11-DSC_5644.jpg)

That ends my story for today. Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on April 21, 2019, 02:21:05 AM
Great update Kim. It's all looking great!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 05:21:01 AM
Thanks Bill!

And just now I noticed in that last picture - I got the Front End Sill attached on the frame upside down!  I'll have to fix that eventually :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on April 21, 2019, 10:19:51 AM
I'm quietly enjoying this one Kim,   nice work.        Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2019, 02:51:11 PM
Thanks Terry!
Appreciate you following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2019, 03:14:56 PM
Today I started on the Front Steps for the tender.

Chapter 4.5 – Front Steps

There are two of the front step sub-assemblies, which are fabricated parts, made up of several small pieces of sheet steel, silver soldered together.  I’ve kinda been looking forward to this!  It seems like a fun thing.  I’ve done some fabrication before, but Kozo shows a lot of different techniques and this is one of the challenges I was looking forward to in taking on this project.

The pieces needed for this sub-assembly are 0.040” thick and 1/16” thick steel plate (I’m using 4130 steel plate, which seemed better than 1018 based on the descriptions I was able to find online).  They aren’t big pieces, but later in this build I’m going to need some nice large pieces of these sheets for the sides of the tender and the engine cab.  I believe I ordered enough material to cover all the needs for this project, but I’d been intending to do a bit of a floor plan for the stock to make sure I leave sizable enough pieces for what is needed later in the build. And I decided this was the time to do it. So, before I cut the bits-o-sheet I needed for the steps, I set down and planned out my material.

This, as is often the case, took a lot longer than I’d anticipated.  And while I was at it, I did a rough plan for the copper sheets too – basically, any sheet material where I was pushing using more than 60-70% of what I’d ordered, I made a floor plan.  And here’s the results of my work:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-2-DSC_5651.jpg)

Not a lot to show for my time, but now I have confidence, that baring scrap (yeah, right!), I’ll be able to get by without ordering more sheet.

Not wanting to end the day having made no actual progress on the build, I did take the additional 30 min to actually cut the pieces I need for the step assemblies. 

In the top left corner are 4 pieces (0.04” sheet) that will become the sides. Then going clockwise you have 2 pieces of 0.04 sheet for the top step, 2 pieces for the bottom step (1/16” thick), below 2 pieces (1/16”) for the middle step, and the bigger square pieces are for the back (also 1/16” thick).  The picture in the lower left shows what the step assemblies will look like when completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016a-FrontSteps-3-DSC_5659.jpg)

Next time I’ll clean up the sizing of these rough cut pieces and assemble them!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 05, 2019, 04:50:53 PM
Great start on the steps, always worth it to plan out the sequence. Kozo is an amazing source if techniques.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 05, 2019, 06:14:29 PM
Interesting parts. Is there a jig or anything to hold all the parts together for the soldering?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2019, 05:11:24 AM
Hi Bill,
For this assembly, Kozo's technique is to cut little slits in the pieces, which are a little oversized.  The slits nest together to hold things in place during soldering.  Then you cut (or file) the excess part away.  Hopefully that confusing explanation will become clear when I post progress photos in the next update.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 06, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2019, 05:00:54 AM
Thanks Roger!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 03:32:45 AM
Continuing on with the Front Steps for the tender.

Last week I cut all the pieces from sheet steel.  Today, I started by milling the parts down to the correct size.

This is a stack of the six parts that need to be 7/16" wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5661.jpg)

I did the same to the 1/4" wide pieces (no pic – it pretty much looks the same!)

Then I used a slitting saw to cut a set of notches into each piece.  I did this in stacks, since I’m building two stairs, and each one has multiple pieces cut the same.  It saved a lot of time!  This is the 1/4" wide step pieces, all with two 0.040” slits cut 0.130” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5663.jpg)

Next was the bottom steps, which also got two 0.040” slits, but these were 0.220” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5666.jpg)

Finally, I notched the sides, which have 3 slits each – a 0.040” for the top step, and two 1/16” slits for the middle and bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5669.jpg)

Here’s a family shot of the Front Steps, all the pieces cut to width and with the appropriate slits.  I didn’t bother to cut them to length since as you’ll see, the extra length will be cut off later.  (Though, as I was slitting them, I realized setup would have been easier had I bothered to square them up nicely!  Ah well, one of those things I’ll do better next time :))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5673.jpg)

This shows you how the parts fit together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5675.jpg)

After a thorough cleaning, I fluxed the pieces up and put a 1/4" piece of silver solder by each joint.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5677.jpg)

And here’s the first sacrificial offering.  Didn’t turn out too badly, though it slid out of position while I was soldering.  For the 2nd one, I used one of those weights to help hold it in place.  Worked much better.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5679.jpg)

After a pickle and a bit of a cleanup, I bent the sides and did a test fit with the bottom step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5681.jpg)

Then I solder those in place.
Here’s the state of play when I got tired and decided it was time to call it a day.  Here are all the steps soldered in place, and below it is the back of the steps.  Next time I’ll solder the steps to the back and cut off all the excess.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016b-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5683.jpg)

Not a lot of progress this week, but ever bit moves me along!  And tomorrow, being Mother’s Day, will be spent with the family.  So maybe I’ll be able to finish the steps next weekend?  We’ll see.

Thanks for checking in!  I do appreciate the visit.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
A tricky fab job very well done!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 12, 2019, 01:32:52 PM
Nicely Done Kim. I can see now how the slits lock things together for the soldering.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2019, 04:24:44 PM
Thanks Cnr & Bill,
Appreciate you stopping by to take a look at my glacial progress :)
I think I need a half dozen of Chris's elves to help me out.  Guess my cookies just aren't enticing enough  ;)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2019, 05:22:03 PM
Kim, I don't think it's actually the cookies that get the elves motivated in Chris's shop  - I think they found a way in to his spirit locker and found the Navy rum. Just my hunch  based on the egg nog fumes at Christmas time.  :Lol:

So far the elves in my shop just swipe small parts and hide them, and stone off the sharp edges on my saws and cutting tools. Probably need a better grade of Navy rum!  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 12, 2019, 09:10:08 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 12, 2019, 10:07:49 PM
Well Kim, the fact that you are moving along at a human pace, does not make it less enjoyable for the rest of us to follow  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:    :popcorn:

And on a side note about Chris and his elves - since he is more or less one himself - you might consider them his family  ;)
Absolutely!  We all worked for the big guy up north till the, um, incident. I am not really any bigger than them, its just camera angles!   :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2019, 05:34:05 PM
First order of business for today is to silver solder the back onto the Front Step assembly.

I started by filing the bottom side of the step frames flat, to make sure we had good solid contact with the back across the whole assembly. (Sorry, no pic.)

Then, after a good cleaning, I fluxed the parts up and placed the bits of silver solder around.  I put them on the inside so I could apply the heat on the outside.  This worked for all edges except the middle step. And for that, I put the solder in the little section above so I could apply the flame in the larger hole.  I made a gap underneath the part so I could apply some heat there if needed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5686.jpg)

This actually worked out a lot better than I’d feared.  This is the most soldering I’ve done in a single operation – five separate edges, and several of them fairly long.  I did some preheating along the bottom, but most heating was done up top, right at the corner line between the back and the edges of the stair frame.  I’m fairly pleased with the results!  (Though it looks a little chard here, it's not really as bad as the photo makes it seem).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5691.jpg)

After soldering the other one, I left them both in the pickle solution for a while and worked on a tool I will need shortly.  I have to make an 82o countersink for the mounting screws.  These holes are at the bottom of a 1/2" deep hole and very close to the edge.  So I need a small countersink to fit down there.  Rather than go looking for something to purchase I decided I’d make one. Seems like a fairly simple tool to do.

I took some 1/4" W-1 that I had on hand, and cut an 82o cone on the end, then brought about 5/8” length of it down to 3/16” diameter.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5694.jpg)

Then I moved to the mill and made a single cutting edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5697.jpg)

Then I heat-treated and tempered it. Here’s the end result.  Now I’m all ready when I need to use it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5701.jpg)

Out of the pickle and washed off (no other clean up done yet) here are the two front steps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5699.jpg)
(Also, here you can see the two mounting holes on that drawing between the top and middle steps – the reason I made the countersink tool.)

Next, we need to cut off all the excess metal – the part that was used to hold things together during fabrication but really isn’t needed as part of the steps. Kozo says to cut it off with a fret saw, but I chose to mill most of it off.  Seemed easier to me.  I started with the flat sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5704.jpg)

Then moved to the complex angled sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5705.jpg)

Since it would make less filing later, I turned the parts at an angle and cleaned up the diagonal edge too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5709.jpg)

And finally, I cut down the width of the top two steps to 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5712.jpg)

The rest of the shaping was done by hand filing – cleaning up the final bit of the outside edges and then creating the rounded part between the middle and bottom steps. Here’s the first step completed, to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-11-DSC_5716.jpg)

Here’s a before & after shot, well, a not-done vs. done shot :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016c-FrontSteps-12-DSC_5713.jpg)

Next time I’ll finish shaping the other front step assembly.

Thanks for following along on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 19, 2019, 05:40:06 PM
Nicely done Kim. Lots of work in those little detail parts!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 19, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
Steps came out great! Got to remember the trick with the weighted arm for soldering....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 19, 2019, 11:47:12 PM
Nice work on the steps Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: J.L. on May 20, 2019, 01:39:29 AM
Hi Kim,
I really do appreciate the amount of work you have put into making each part. Here I am, reaching into a plastic vaccuum formed tray and pulling out a part that has taken you hours to fabricate from scratch.

You should be very proud of the each and every part that goes into this engine.

Very skillful work.

Cheers...John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2019, 05:37:19 AM
Thank you Bill, Chis, Dave and John,
Appreciate the comments! 
And thanks to everyone who stops by to check out the build, comment or not!  :)

John,
I'm thoroughly enjoying your D51-200 2-8-2 build.  Yes, they are different types of building, and yours is quite interesting and I'm learning a lot by following along.

Thanks,
KIm
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:04:13 PM
This weekend, I finished up the front steps for the tender.

After shaving off the extra parts of the second set of steps, I used my new fancy 82o countersink.  It worked OK.  Not great, but for the few holes I need it for, I’ll deal.  I tried to sharpen it several times, then I tried to grind some relief on it. That helped more than anything.  But it still pushed metal out of the way more than cut it. You can see a healthy mound around the edge of the countersink there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-01-DSC_5718.jpg)

It was very hard to clean up the edge around the countersink since it was so deep in the hole.  I ended up clamping it in the mill and using a little mill bit to take off that edge.  And here are the two completed steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-02-DSC_5737.jpg)

That completed the steps themselves.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2019, 11:07:50 PM
Chapter 4.6 – Step Bracket

Next, I made the brackets to connect the steps to the tender frame.

The bracket is a little piece of 1/2"x1/8” angle.

I made it from a piece of 1/2" square bar (12L14).  I put a short length in the mill and cut out the excess to make the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-03-DSC_5722.jpg)

Then using a chamfer bit, I cut a 45o along one edge of the angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-04-DSC_5725.jpg)

And cut the angle in half to make two brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-05-DSC_5729.jpg)

After cleaning up the ends, I drilled and tapped #2-56 holes for mounting the steps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-06-DSC_5732.jpg)

Then I drilled and countersunk the holes for mounting to the tender frame.  Again, you can see the marginal ‘cutting’ job that my countersink bit did here. But in this case, it was easy to file the little mound of metal away.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-07-DSC_5734.jpg)

And here’s the completed Step Brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-08-DSC_5739.jpg)

Then I screwed the steps onto the brackets:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-09-DSC_5741.jpg)

And mounted the brackets onto the frames.
Here’s the family shot, of the tender to date:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/016d-FrontSteps-10-DSC_5743.jpg)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 28, 2019, 12:52:06 AM
Looking great Kim! top notch work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 01:02:47 AM
Very nice Kim. Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 28, 2019, 05:48:00 AM
Thanks CNR and Bill,

Was the countersink bit an import?

Bill, the countersink bit was one I made.  You can see more about it in pictures 3 to 5 in post #316 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg200871.html#msg200871).  So I have no one to blame but myself and my own inexperience.  But I learned a lot from this exercise!  I think a straight D bit would have been better.  Or at least make more relief on the rest of the cutter.  Maybe if  I'd made 2 or 4 flutes it would have been better than the single?  Just thoughts for next time.  It worked well enough, and I'm past that part now :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on May 28, 2019, 02:43:59 PM
Sorry Kim, somehow I had missed that. As you say though, past that point now and it all turned out well in the end.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2019, 06:17:14 AM
Nothing to worry about there, Bill!  I'm happy to have people comment for any reason :)  There are a lot of builds going on here at MEM (which is wonderful!) and its hard to keep track of all of them all the time.  No reason to be sorry!

Thanks for the comments and for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 02:40:22 AM
Chapter 4.7 – Rear Coupler Pocket

Today I started on the Rear Coupler Pocket.  This will go on the back of the tender to hold the coupler.

This part is another fabrication job, very similar to the front steps.

The Rear Coupler Pocket is supposed to be made from 3/32” brass.  But I substituted steel for most of the brass, and I couldn’t find 3/32” steel sheet.  So I ended up using 0.090” 4130A sheet steel.  It's pretty close to 0.09375 (3/32”).  Here I’m cutting out the pieces for the coupler pocket from the 0.090” sheet using my HF saw in vertical mode.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5746.jpg)

Then I cut all the pieces to the correct width. I did four at a time here since they are all the same width.  These are being cut to 0.50” wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5747.jpg)

This is the back plate for the rear coupler being milled to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5750.jpg)

And a family shot of all six pieces that will make up the coupler pocket.  I’ve laid-out the locations for the slots and holes and marked where they are in black pen.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5753.jpg)

Back to the mill to cut the 3/32” slots.  Now, this slitting saw is brand new.  But its way out of round.  Like way out.  It only cuts with one tooth I think.  And It goes ‘Thunk, Thunk, Thunk’ as it turns since only one tooth hits metal.  Many of my slitting saws are a little out of round, but this one is WAY off.  I guess it worked in the end though.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5755.jpg)

Here are all the parts after cutting the slits.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5758.jpg)

And with the four pieces that make the pocket slid together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017a-RearCouplerPocket-7-DSC_5761.jpg)

Next time I’ll silver solder the pocket together, then solder it to the back.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Larry on June 02, 2019, 04:21:28 AM
Every slitting saw I use goes Thunk, Thunk, Thunk. I tend to think it is the mandrel but maybe a combination of the two. I have about 3 mandrels and they all do the same. Wish I could find a heavy duty accurate one.

You have taken on quite a project. Your posts are great.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:40:55 AM
Thanks Larry!
Nice to know I'm not the only one who has lopsided slitting saws!  The 1/16" one I used recently was very nice - almost seemed to cut on multiple teeth, so I don't think it's the mandrel (though I guess it still could be).

Most of my slitting blades have some eccentricity, but this 3/32" one is the most dramatic.  It could be because i purchase cheap ones - they're all <$10 a piece, so I'm sure they're all imports, and it's pot luck on how concentric it is.  Some are better, some are worse.  And some are truly exceptionally awful! :)

Thanks for following along Larry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 02, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
More nice fabrication work Kim. I would think something is amiss if my slitting saws didn't go thunk, thunk, thunk too  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 02, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
Thanks Bill!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
Well, I said next shop time I’d silver solder the coupler pocket. But I forgot that I need to do a little more work to get ready for that!  I still need to drill & tap some holes for 0-80 screws to hold the pieces together during the soldering operation.

So, I drill some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-1-DSC_5762.jpg)

And tap some holes:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-2-DSC_5768.jpg)

Then drill a few more holes – clearance holes this time.  I’ll be screwing the other pieces to this backing plate.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-3-DSC_5770.jpg)

And finally, Kozo shows to take a little off the holding flanges here.  I think this is so that the outside edge doesn’t get soldered to the base – it will make clean-up easier later.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-4-DSC_5773.jpg)

And here it is will all the pieces screwed together.  Front:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-5-DSC_5774.jpg)

And back:
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017b-RearCouplerPocket-6-DSC_5778.jpg)
Now, the astute among you might notice that the solder holding screws for the back flange are poking all the way through.  I accidentally drilled too deep and broke through the other side of that flange. So I just used longer 0-80 screws to fill the hole.  The part will be painted, so nobody should be the wiser :)


NOW, we’re ready for soldering!
Kim

P.S. I did this last weekend and didn’t get around to posting the progress till now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
This week’s shop time is silver soldering for sure!

Here’s the pocket assembled, fluxed and with bits of silver solder by each joint, just waiting for heat to be applied. This will solder the upright pieces to the base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-01-DSC_5782.jpg)

After a pickle and cleanup, I set up to solder the edges of the box together. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-02-DSC_5785.jpg)

And finally, I soldered the back flange onto the unit.  This is AFTER soldering this time.  Turned out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-03-DSC_5787.jpg)

Another pickle and clean up, and we’re ready to take the coupler pocket down to size. I have to mill off the excess pieces that were there just to hold things together during soldering. I started by evening off the bottom. It’s just flat, so quite straight forward.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-04-DSC_5789.jpg)

Next, I did the sides.  Here I had to be a little more careful because the back needs to remain wider than the pocket.  But I  milled off the parts that were just there to hold the pocket sides in place.  (And the head of the screw).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-05-DSC_5792.jpg)

After completing both sides, I did the top.  Then I put the part in at an angle (adjusted by eye) and took off the corners at an angle.  The rest will be cleaned up with files.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-06-DSC_5795.jpg)

After filing everything flush, I needed to round off the front of the pocket.  The drawing showed a 3/4" radius.  However, the center of the arc was about 3/16” out in mid-air.  Rather than free-handing the arc, I double-sticky-taped a little piece of wood to the rear flange and use that to support the dividers while I drew the arc.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-07-DSC_5797.jpg)

Then I filed the arc following the line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-08-DSC_5800.jpg)

Next, I drilled four mounting holes; two in the backplate (as shown below) and two in the back flange (not shown).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-09-DSC_5802.jpg)

And finally, I drilled and reamed a 1/8” hole for the coupler pin.  I drilled this from the bottom since I could get a better hold on the part that way.  I would have been good to do this step BEFORE I rounded the front of the pocket, but I didn’t think about it.  I almost forgot the coupler pin hole completely!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-10-DSC_5812.jpg)
You may also note the two little dimples in my vice jaws in the above picture :(.  I had a piece of packing in place when I drilled the mounting holes, but apparently, it wasn’t enough – or I was too exuberant in drilling my holes because I clearly drilled into my vice jaws on both sides.  How sad is that? :(  Ah well, it's bound to happen sooner or later.  And my vice is now 1.5 years old. Guess its time for some battle scars.

And here’s the completed coupler pocket!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-11-DSC_5813.jpg)

The only thing remaining is to mount it to the frame.

Back when I was doing the rear end sill, I marked these holes, but I did not drill them.  I wanted to wait to make the holes till I had the part in hand so I could make sure they matched up.  Turns out, they matched up perfectly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-12-DSC_5803.jpg)

So, I drilled and tapped the holes (3-48).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-13-DSC_5807.jpg)

Then, I mounted the coupler pocket.  Here it is, in its final resting place on the rear of the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-14-DSC_5815.jpg)

And another shot, just because it's fun.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/017c-RearCouplerPocket-15-DSC_5824.jpg)


Now, the Rear Coupler Pocket is officially complete.

Only a few more pieces of the frame (Footboard, and Coupler Pins) then we’ll be on to tank itself!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 09, 2019, 06:01:12 PM
Hello Kim,

Love to see this detail work on these simple yet complex to build pieces.  :ThumbsUp:

Your project is coming along beautifully.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 09, 2019, 08:09:02 PM
That is a lot of steps for that part but it sure turned out nice. Good stuff and great pictures Kim.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2019, 08:16:35 PM
Thanks, Thomas and Bill!
Appreciate you both following along :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 09, 2019, 11:52:00 PM
Great work Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 10, 2019, 12:40:14 AM
Nice fab and machine work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
Thanks Cnr and Dave!
Sorry for the delayed reply.  Though I'd done this days ago. Guess I just thought about it and never quite did it!
I'm good at that :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
Chapter 4.8 – Foot Board

Today’s mini-project is the tender Foot Board. Not being well versed in train anatomy, I’d have called it the rear bumper for the tender :)  But I’m learning.  I never know if the names Kozo gives things are just what he calls it, what its called in Japan, or the standard US name for an item.  But I generally just go with it since I don’t know any better.  So, Foot Board it is!

I started by cutting material for the brackets.  These are 3/32” thick sheet (well, 0.090” thick sheet, which is pretty close).  Here I’m cutting a strip off the sheet stock (4130a) for this purpose.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-01-DSC_5830.jpg)

I cut them to approximate length, then milled them to the appropriate width (9/32”).  No pictures of this fascinating operation, though I’m sure you can imagine it if you try.

With that complete, I made a 90o bend about 1/3 of the way down the part.  This leaves both ends long, but I decided its MUCH easier to clean up the ends after they are in place than to get a bend in exactly the right spot – especially on such thick material.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-02-DSC_5833.jpg)

Next was to make the foot board itself.  This is a 3/8”x1/2” – 1/8” thick angle which I made from a length of 1018 steel.  This is a shot of me milling the angle to shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-03-DSC_5836.jpg)

After shaping it, I flipped it over to drill and tap some 3-48 holes to help hold the brackets on while silver soldering.  The piece sitting behind it on the vise is the rear sill of the tender frame.  The double row of holes for along this is for the other end of the brackets.  So, the spacing of these holes should line up exactly with the ones I’m tapping in the foot board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-04-DSC_5838.jpg)

Then I drilled the through holes in the bracket.  These were all located from the 90o bend.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-05-DSC_5839.jpg)

Finally, before attaching all the pieces together, I filed off the corners of the footboard as shown in the drawings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-06-DSC_5841.jpg)

And here’s the Foot Board family, posing for a beauty shot before jumping in the fire.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-07-DSC_5844.jpg)

All fluxed up and ready to go!  Note I’m using the rear sill as part of the soldering jig here to help hold all the brackets in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-08-DSC_5846.jpg)

And done.  One thing about silver soldering steel – it can take a LOT more heat than the brass before it starts to melt into a puddle of goo.  And with such big hunk of steel to heat up, I melted the heads of the brass holding screws on 3 out of 4 of the joints.  I need to be more careful with my heat here.  I think soldering steel is letting me get lazy with my heat application.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-09-DSC_5849.jpg)

After a pickle bath, we’re back to the mill to shorten the ends of the brackets to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-10-DSC_5853.jpg)

A little filing work to finish the job, and take the heads off the brass screws (or what was left of them after my burnt offering to the silver solder gods).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-11-DSC_5856.jpg)

And there we have the foot board assembly!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-12-DSC_5858.jpg)

Finally, situated in place on the tender frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/018a-FootBoard-13-DSC_5862.jpg)

Well, that was a LONG shop session but I completed the foot board!
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 16, 2019, 08:20:37 PM
More nice work Kim. Am enjoying the step by step build log a lot.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on June 16, 2019, 08:32:29 PM
Hi Kim

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 17, 2019, 06:56:28 AM
Thanks Bill and Rich!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on June 17, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
I'm still following along Kim.  Very nice work.  I admire the soldering.  I've never done it.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 18, 2019, 05:23:36 AM
Thanks Bob!
Please don't admire the soldering job too closely or you'll see how truly rudimentary my soldering is!  But I am getting better! :)

I actually enjoy the silver soldering process.  It's kind-of magical to see it in action. 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
Chapter 4.9 – Center Pins and Drawbar Pin

The final parts of the Tender Frame are the Center Pins and the Drawbar Pin.  These are simple turnings and shouldn’t have taken too long.  But being as talented as I am, I was able to make them take my full shop time today!  Pretty impressive, eh?

OK, I did some other puttering around – sharpened some of the yard tools that my wife had asked me to and fixed the electric hedger.  But after that, I started on my project!

I got all set up on the lathe and then remembered I’d left the change gears in a non-standard state.  That was back when I did the springs for the truck - I needed a really course horizontal travel for the spring which required a gear change.  So, I thought, “I’ve got plenty of time, why don’t I change them back now?”

So, I did.  It just took longer than it should have.  But in the end, I got it done.  With the added bonus of breaking the gear change banjo (or Change Gear Pivot Bracket, as they call it in the Grizzly manual).  This picture shows the change gears on my lathe. The three gears in a row there are all connected to the banjo – the bottom one is where it pivots and the next two up are mounted to the banjo.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-01-DSC_5869.jpg)

It’s held in place by the nut you can see just below the middle gear (to the left of the lowest gear). And by a clamping screw that clamps it to the pivot point at the bottom.

And that’s where it broke.  I was tightening the clamp at the pivot and suddenly, the screw turned way too easily. Apparently, I’d over tightened the screw and broke the casting?  I didn’t know I could do that.  I didn’t think I was exerting that much force, but clearly, I did.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-02-DSC_5865.jpg)

After fretting about it for a bit, I decided to go ahead and use the lathe for today.  The clamp around the pivot isn’t what provides the rigidity anyway – it’s the other nut that really clamps it into place.  I’m thinking as long as there’s enough material to hold the banjo in place at the pivot point, I shouldn’t miss that clamping force from the pivot too much?  Thoughts from anyone on this?  Am I foolish for continuing to use the late with the banjo broken as such?

Regardless, I’m going to contact Grizzly and find out what it will cost to get a replacement banjo.

Anyway, after that exciting little mishap, the rest of the work went without hitch.

I started with the Drawbar Pin.   This was made from 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Using a 1/4" collet to hold it, I cut about 3/4” down to diameter (5/32”) then chamfered the end at 30o using the cross slide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-03-DSC_5874.jpg)

I then slid the bar out another inch or so and brought the required length down to diameter.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-04-DSC_5877.jpg)

And parted it off the rod.  I also took this opportunity to chamfer the top of the pin with a file.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-05-DSC_5879.jpg)

Now for the Center Pins.  These were also made from the same 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Kozo specifies these to be 0.245” to provide an easy sliding fit in a 1/4" reamed hole.  So I skimmed off a few thou from the 1/4" bar and chamfered the end.  Then I cut a 1/32” groove for an e-clip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-06-DSC_5881.jpg)

Next, I used a parting tool to cut a 1/8” groove in the pin for a set screw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-07-DSC_5882.jpg)

And parted it off.
And did it again.

Here’s the three parts I made today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-08-DSC_5884.jpg)

Showing the Darwbar Pin in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-09-DSC_5885.jpg)

And the center pins.  You can almost see one of the e-clips on the bottom of the rear center pin if you use your imagination! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/019a-CenterAndDrawbarPins-10-DSC_5888.JPG)

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 30, 2019, 05:17:55 PM
Drawbar and pin looks great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Don't worry about the broken banjo casting. Seen lots of broken ones on machines from China. The castings are pretty iffy it seems. Just use the old one as a patterm and cut / mill out a new one from mild steel. Breakage worries overwith. Outline could also be laser or waterjet cut if you have CAD capability and friend with those machines. Good luck with the repair!

(By the way welding and bronze welded repairs have not been successful on several broken ones I have run across, welds held but the iron just broke again 1/2" away. Others welded fine. These experiences are why I suggest new fab in  mild steel)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on June 30, 2019, 05:53:28 PM
Hello Kim,

Still following along and enjoying your beautiful work.  :popcorn:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on June 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM
Good looking pins. Sorry about the banjo, but agree a fabricated one and your worries will be over.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2019, 05:19:31 AM
Thanks Cnr, Thomas, and Bill!
Thanks for the suggestion on fabricating my own new banjo.  That makes a lot of sense to just make one.  I was hoping it would be easier to just get a replacement part from Grizzly.  But if its not that sturdy of a casting, maybe its not worth the money to replace.

I'll have to give fabricating more thought.  I'm still thinking the lathe is pretty usable even with that bit broken off the banjo, but it will inevitably break more, so I'll so something about it eventually...

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on July 01, 2019, 10:05:38 PM
I'd say you nailed those pins.  Nice work..

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:38:28 AM
Thanks Bob!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2019, 05:42:39 AM
Well, all my deep thinking about fabricating a new banjo for my lathe just flew out the window today.

I called Grizzly and the part cost $34.38.  When I looked at the cost of a chunk of steel big enough for the bracket, it cost as much as the casting.  Plus I'd have to put a bunch of work into it. Sure, it'd be a stronger part, but this one lasted me 6 years.  If I spend $35 on a new casting and it last me as long, I won't be too unhappy.  And if it breaks again, I can always fab one then.

So, I've got a replacement banjo on its way to me.  3-5 business days, so they said.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 02, 2019, 02:19:24 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 02, 2019, 03:14:22 PM
That seems a reasonable price Kim, Like you say, there is always the fabrication option down the road if needed.

Bill
Before installing the new one, take measurements for any possible future making of a replacement replacement...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 02, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
Kim, with a new casting, there's also a chance the factory have improved the casting technology or the metallurgy of the part. Could be far better than the older banjo. The factories in China do sometimes make improvements if user's complaints make it back to them.

I did not realize replacement banjos were affordable now. I priced one a number of years ago to replace a broken one for a friend's China lathe and was quoted multiple hundreds of dollars and a 12 week wait by our local (not very honest or cost effective) dealer.

The ones I made from mild steel were cut from scrap on hand, so cost was just for the labour.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 03, 2019, 05:21:35 AM
Thanks for the support, guys!
Cnr, I hadn't even thought about them making it better :) That would certainly be a bonus!

Plus, I've learned a lesson - you don't have to reef down on the clamping screw - most of the holding power comes from the nut further up the banjo anyway!  I can just snug that screw up and call it good.  This should make the casting last twice as long - and any improvement will be a extra bonus :)

Taking measurements - good idea Chris.  Will I do it?  Maybe, but the problem would be that I'd never be able to find it n+1 years from now when I actually need it :)  So I may wait till necessity demands that work :)  (its not that  I'm lazy, exactly, I just don't mind avoiding work that doesn't need to be done, unless it seems like fun!  :LittleDevil:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:26:02 AM
Got some time in the shop today after the holiday festivities.  I started by doing a pretty good cleaning – putting all the tools back in their place, sweeping up the swarf and vacuuming things up pretty good.  It looks nice now!

I also spent some time unpacking the new addition that the Birthday Fairy recently brought me:  a new Eastwood powder coating gun and oven  :cartwheel:

And since I had some time, I couldn’t just let it sit there thinking it was unloved, I had to give it a try.

So, I dug through my scrap bucket and came up with an interesting piece from some past project and decided to try that out.  It was an aluminum hunk from the 5-cylinder rotary engine I did a few years back that was rejected for some reason I don’t remember.

I cleaned the part really good then hung it up to powder coat.

I made a powder coating booth using the box the oven came. I only got black and red powder, so I went with red. You can sort-of see the grounding clip at the top of the picture. This is after coating BTW:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5899.jpg)

Then I moved it to my preheated powder coating oven (cleverly labeled as you can see) and waited for the powder to go liquid.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5904.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the part baking.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5901.jpg)

And here’s the part after it cooled down.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020a-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5906.jpg)

Interestingly, I was supposed to wait for the oven to heat up to 450F before I put the part in, and I kept checking it with an infrared thermometer.   It wouldn't go up past 250.  I was getting frustrated.   I finally tried opening the door and it was WAY hotter!  I was checking the temperature of the OUTSIDE of the door (go figure - it doesn't read temp through the glass door...  :facepalm: of course! :insane:).  Anyway, I put the part in, it seemed to go off in about 10 or so, then I set it to 400F and let it soak for about 20 min.  I took the part out and let it cool for a bit and that was all there was too it. Not that complex of a process really!

I’m just as tickled as you can imagine! :)

Tomorrow I’m going to strip the paint off the trucks and start coating the frame and trucks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 06, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
The first part looks great Kim! Nice result!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Something tells me that the special powder coating oven could also be used to heat and discolour bread or different sorts of pies at breaks or lunch time.... who knew?  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 06, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
Hello Kim,

That part looks really good, appears to have a nice heavy coating. :ThumbsUp:

This is good to know, now if Bill is too busy to do any powder coating for me,  :ROFL: :lolb:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 02:16:36 PM
Great result Kim and it really isn't much if any harder that doing a good job with regular paint. Maybe not as many color choices but the Eastwood powders seem to cover most of the bases pretty well.  Happy belated birthday too!! Now looking forward to seeing the trucks once they are done !!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 06, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
That look very nice Kim!

The usual method for prep is to sandblast (at least that is what the guy that I use does), do you have any idea how well the powder bonds to the base metal if it is only cleaned and not blasted? 

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2019, 05:22:22 PM
Thanks all for the kind replies!

Dave,
I don't know how well the powder bonds this way. I'll play around with it a little more today and see if can give some metric on how well it bonds.  Just holding it in my hands now and scratching on it with my fingernails - it has a LOT better bond than any spray paint, that's for sure.  It feels quite secure.  Don't know how it will hold up when I start rubbing metal against it, but it can't be worse than that the spray paint I've been using.

The instructions they provide are to clean well make sure there's no moisture left on it and NO FINGERPRINTS - no touching the metal after the final washing. They do recommend a solvent based cleaner that evaporates quickly to help ensure the "no moisture" part.  I picked up their painting prep cleaner and used that. They claim its better than lacquer thinner, but I don't generally use lacquer thinner anyway.  I generally use acetone. Don't know if that's any better or worse, it's just what I use.

I'll have to give you a better reading in a few days on this :)

Any comments Bill? You have more experience with it than I do

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 07:06:26 PM
Not much more experience than you at this point, but I also followed the Eastwood instructions as you did and used their cleaner/prep as well. Like you say, the bond has so far been great and MUCH better than conventional paint. I suspect bead blasting would help even more but not required as long as you are down to bare metal for the powder coat.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 08:41:19 PM
Is it possible to mask off a design on the powder coat, and apply another color on top? Though that would require tape that would take the baking...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 06, 2019, 09:42:39 PM
Chris, you can do overcoats, and in fact some of the translucent powders require a bast coat. Hi temp tape is available in both fiberglass and some sort of plastic.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2019, 11:20:33 PM
Neat stuff.... Need to put one of those setups on my Christmas list...   :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 06:05:46 AM
Yes!  You certainly need one of these, Chris! :)  Quite fun!

I'll post today's update soon (tomorrow sometime probably).  Unfortunately, today's session was slightly less successful - I don't think I got the powder quite thick enough this time, so it's going back to the paint shop for another coat.

But still, the process worked well, it was just inexperience on the part of the guy running the paint booth.  Hopefully he'll get better or I'll have to fire him :)

As for two colors of powder coat paint - I'm sure you can do this but after playing with the tape some today, it does mask the powder and withstand the heat - I can verify that.  But I don't think you get the same crisp line you would expect with sprayed paint.  It just seems to creep around corners and under the edge of the tape a little bit more than has been my experience with spray paint.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 12:34:05 PM
Kim, were you using the fiberglass tape or the blue plastic hi-temp one? I ordered some of the blue but so far have only tried the fiberglass. I am hoping the blue may provide crisper lines at least on smooth surfaces. But I agree, the electrostatic charge will definitely pull powder into even small spaces if not masked perfectly.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
Masking is probably the hardest part of powder coating.   ::)

I bought a set of varying widths of tape for this purpose.  You can get a fine  edge if done properly.  I also got the set of plugs for varying size holes, although for threaded holes a screw works best. 

The Eastwood gun has two settings, with the #2 setting recommended for spraying tight corners and small spaces.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 02:36:03 PM
Which version gun kit did you guys get from Eastwood?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
Chris, I got the dual voltage one just to have the added capability.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:17:23 PM
Like Bill, I got the dual voltage gun.  Seemed like 2 for 1 a little more money, right?  If I need it, I'll be glad I sprung the extra $40 for the dual voltage gun (that's my theory anyway :)).

Hi Kvom, I got one of the plug sets too, though I haven't had an opportunity to use them yet.

Bill, on the high-temp masking tape - I got several widths of the blue-green plasticy tape which is what I used. But you're right - I'm not using it on a flat surface.  I'm bending around corners and doing lots of weird stuff on these parts, so it isn't a fair trial really.  It probably will make much more crisp lines on a flatter surface.

I also got one roll of the white fiberglass tape, because it came with the 'accessories' pack that I got.  Haven't used that yet.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2019, 03:20:15 PM
First order of business today was to dis-assemble everything into its constituent parts for a paint strip, in preparation for powder coating.  I took this opportunity to get a quick family shot of all parts made to date.  Doesn’t look like so much when it's just sitting there. But that was a lot of work!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5909.jpg)

I decided the best way to do the wheels was to disassemble them too.  I had to heat them up to release the Loctite.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5910.jpg)

This also had the advantage of helping to strip the paint some.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5913.jpg)

Still took quite a bit of work with a wire brush and a lot of buffing with a 3M mesh wheel.  But I got them back to pretty nice condition for the powder coating.

I covered the edges with the high-temp masking tape, made little wire hangers for them, and powdered them.  I hung 3 at a time in my high-tech paint booth.  I did have to remember to move the ground clip when I moved from one to the next.  After coating them, I moved them to the rack that I’d set up right next to the powder coating station.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5915.jpg)

When all eight wheels were powdered, I moved them to the oven to bake.  It’s interesting, watching the powder melt and start to flow.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5918.jpg)

After the baking period, I moved the whole rack out to cool.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5921.jpg)

Unfortunately, after cooling, it became clear to me that I didn’t really get a thick enough cover with the powder.  A few are OK, but several just aren’t even and don’t have the color I want.  It’s easier to see in person, but a few you can see in the picture too, like the one in the top left corner, and the second one from the right on the top, to name a few.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020b-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5925.jpg)

Anyway, now I’ll get to try the re-coating.  It’s not any different other than it sounds like it can be a little harder to get the powder to coat well.  Guess I’ll find out! :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 07, 2019, 05:16:23 PM
Interested to see how that works out Kim. I haven't tried a second coat yet either. Might be good to use the 25kV setting for the redo though. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 07, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
A bit of a rub with scotchbrite helps with the second coat adhesion, although I haven't needed it on most parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
When you talk about the powder flowing, can a too-thick coating sag? Or does it just melt the particles into one film layer? Wondering if going on too thick could run like paint does? Fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2019, 05:46:17 AM
Well, with my minimal experience, it seems that the powder melts and flows together - a little.  But if it seems to need to be pretty evenly distributed or you can get lumps - they refer to it as "Orange Peel" though this seems to have several potential causes (powder too thick, bake too long, etc.)  I've got a few not-so-ideal pictures I can share soon.  Not sure if it will run like conventional paint though.  It might if you could stack enough powder in one place.

My re-coating went pretty well.  Most of the 8 wheels came out pretty good. but one I fussed around with a lot and it just kept getting worse.  I touched it with my finger once while trying to position it - that was dumb.  Big fat oily finger print right in the middle...  I cooked the other 7, and they are mostly OK - still might be a little thin in a spot or two.  But that one - I cleaned all the lose powder off and tried it again - a couple different times.

I think the concave shape of the wheels causes some problems.

Higher voltage didn't help.  Lower voltage is what most things I read recommended.  So I used the 15K setting.  The thing that actually helped the most was to turn the air pressure down.  I though I had it down below 10psi, but apparently not - it was more like 20psi, which was almost blowing the powder off the wheel.  Anyway, bring the pressure down helped the most (and getting rid of my finger print!  :wallbang:).

Pics to follow soon.
Kim

Eventually, the things that see
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 12, 2019, 04:10:11 PM
Good Morning Kim
I just finished reading through this entire thread, and I am really enjoying your detailed descriptions of each step. I have Kozo's book as well, and your posts have added a great deal to the work. It looks like you have some nice tooling as well. I will follow along now that I have the background of your build. Oh yes and it all looks great so far.

Mike 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2019, 09:34:54 PM
Thanks Mike!
Appreciate the kind words :)

Hopefully, me documenting my struggles can be helpful others.  It is certainly helpful for me!  I get so much amazing feedback from the members of this forum.  everything I know about model engineering, I've learned from people right here, sharing their wisdom and experience with me.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2019, 11:12:33 PM
Well, I wasn’t pleased at all with my second coat either.  It was marginally better, but most wheels still had very poor coverage, as can be seen in this picture.  I just wasn’t happy with the look at all.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5931.jpg)

So, I tried going back to basics.  Things just didn’t seem to be getting the powder and I wondered why. So I used an ohm-meter and sure enough – there was NO electrical connection between my wire and the part.  And looking at the hole in the wheel I could see that it was completely coated with baked-on paint. As was the wire I used to hold it. This picture doesn't show it very well, but it is quite clear in real life.   Things are dark in that hole, which messes up the picture. But trust me, it was completely coated – on all wheels.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5937.jpg)

So, I took the wire out and tossed it.  Figured it was way cheaper to spend a little wire on a new hanger. Then I used a reamer to clean out the hole.  With new wire and a reamed hole, I got an excellent electrical connection.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5939.jpg)

I did this to ALL the wheels.  Then tried re-coating them.  THIS time, I made sure my air pressure was turned way down (below 10psi), AND I used the diffuser tip on the powder coating gun.  You can see that in this picture – it’s the blue round thingy on the end of the gun (yeah, it's blue, it just has red powder all over it!). The idea of the diffuser is that it helps disperse the powder while preventing the blast of air from being so strong that it blows the powder off the part.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5941.jpg)

Also, I ended up doing the parts laying down, instead of suspended. I don’t know if this made any real difference – my thinking was that gravity might help some. But in the end, I think the main differences was – 1) good electrical connection, 2) taking the powdering a little more slowly, and 3) making sure I got good coverage.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-5-DSC_5944.jpg)

I think my real problem with my original coating was that I just didn’t get enough powder on the part.  The second try I think I didn’t have a good electrical connection, which made the powder not stick very well.  And with my inexperience, I didn't recognize what "enough powder" looked like.  Guess that's what experience will do for you, eh?

Here we are, baking the parts in the oven.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-6-DSC_5948.jpg)

After cooling, I took them out and started to strip the masking off.  It’s clear my masking failed on a few of the parts – I think this is a result of the many coatings and re-bakings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-7-DSC_5950.jpg)

After a considerable clean-up effort consisting of a lot of scraping with an X-Acto knife, some wire-brushing, and the use of sandpaper on a mandrel on the lathe, here’s how the came out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-8-DSC_5953.jpg)

Now, after the 3rd attempt, I am happy with them :)

On to black! Everything else will be powder coated black now!

One thing left to do on the wheels though. I don’t really want them to rust, and I see the steel (1018 and 12L14 – but 12L14 is worse) in my shop rust over time and I don’t really want to deal with that.  So, I’m seriously considering spray them with a clear coat.  Just regular spray paint mind you, no powder clear coat – that would be too much (I don’t really want that thick glossy look anyway). 

If you have any experience with this or feel that I’m planning to do something really stupid, please feel free to let me know!  But that’s my plan at the moment.

Thanks,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 15, 2019, 12:15:19 AM
Clear coat or an oily tool dip will keep the rust at bay Kim. Good excuse to get a dipping pot and heat soluble coating. But yeah, easy to spend other people's money, just ask Tennessee Whisky  :lolb:

Bill

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 12:46:26 AM
Some great learning Kim! Guess that any new process has its key things, looking ng much better. For my Kozo Shay, had same concern with the rims rusting, also 12L14, so used some clear coat spray, worked fine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2019, 05:31:18 AM
Thanks for the input Bill and Chris,
Good to know that others have done similar.  I've used the technique on model ships to keep the copper plating from oxidizing, and it has worked pretty well, so I hope for similar experience here.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 15, 2019, 01:13:15 PM
Ship models?  Pictures?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 15, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
Yes pictures...would be good.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 15, 2019, 02:36:23 PM
The wheels came out great Kim.  :ThumbsUp: Also, I now have a better picture of the powder coating process.

I too would love to see pictures of your ship models.  :)

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 15, 2019, 09:18:37 PM
Hello Kim,

OK I am also in line to see the ship photos ;D

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 17, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Well, since you asked, I'll post a few pics… My efforts in the model ship world are nothing compared to Chris, and Mike’s, and I’m sure many others.  I played around for a few years, completed one model and made it a good way into another.  Very modest work by comparison.

The first one was a Mississippi sternwheeler.  Not overly prototypical, but it was a fun, engaging project and got me into the hobby.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-KingOfTheMississippi1.jpg)

The next one I did was the HMS Surprise. It started as a kit but evolved significantly from there.  It’s plank-on-bulkhead construction and I learned a lot in the process. I painted and covered below the waterline with copper plates.  This is what I did the clear coat on.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise2.jpg)

Here’s the lower deck with completed chain pumps.
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurprise1.jpg)

I was making the cannons for the main gun deck.  I didn’t like the ones that came with the kit, so I made my own.  Made 22 brass cannons and blackened them.  These were going to go on the lower deck before I put the upper deck in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-HMSSurpise-Cannons.jpg)

But I had so much fun making the cannons it diverted me into building a little steam engine. Then that became another, and on we went.  I haven’t gotten back to completing the ship yet.  Likely will someday.  When the mood strikes.

Oh, and there’s one more model ship I built.  This one is a pirate ship I built with my daughter. She was about 5 at the time. It’s her paint scheme.  But this one, at least, has been completed!
(http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020c-PowderCoating-PirateShip.jpg)

So, that’s my foray into model ships.
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 17, 2019, 04:37:17 PM
Thanks for showing those Kim. Funny how one hobby can lead into others isn't it?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 17, 2019, 06:06:44 PM
Nice! Thanks for sharing those!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 17, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Great looking ships Kim! Your cannon in particular look superb. as does the "Surprise" hull. Have you read the Patrick O'Brien books? 'HMS Surprise' is one of his best.

Got some projects like the pirate ship on the go with my 5 and 10 yr old nieces. Great to do some shop work with kids, whatever form it takes! The 5 yr old loves to do "carpentry" with rigid styrene foam (cutting, shaping, nailing, gluing it). When she progresses to working wood there will be no stopping her! Her older sister is doing some simple metal work in steel and aluminum and does very well. 

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2019, 05:13:28 AM
Yes, I've read many of the Patric O'Brien books.  That was, of course, part of the inspiration for me tackling that model.  I was already committed and partway into it when I learned that the Surprise in the books isn't exactly the Surprise from real life. There were some similarities, but not the same.  I chose to model the HMS Surprise from the books, which, interestingly enough, gave me a lot of source material :)

But it's been long enough now I'd have to re-do my research.  I used to know exactly how many of what guns were on each deck and all that sort of nonsense.  It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!  :embarassed:

And it's great to do projects with the kids.  It's fun to just see where their imaginations take them.

But it was all fun!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on July 18, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
Nice ship models Kim.  :ThumbsUp: You are certainly not alone in the "unfinished model" arena.  :facepalm:

As far as: "It's surprising (no pun intended) how much you can forget when you stop thinking about something for 7 years!" That's no big deal. What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.  :facepalm:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on July 18, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
Quote
What worries me is how much I forget when I stop thinking about something for 7 MINUTES.

Almost spilled my tea laughing.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 18, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Hello Kim,

Thanks for showing the ship photos. You must finish that Pirate Ship and I love the paddle wheeler.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2019, 04:28:59 PM
Thanks for the kind words for my attempts at ship modeling.  I do plan to complete them.  I've got several years into the Surprise, and I'd love to see it completed too.  And I think I will. Someday.

But for now, I'm back to powder coating my steam engine parts!

I had a short shop time this weekend, but I got another batch of parts powder coated.  Black this time (as everything going forward will be…)

I set up the powder coating station for black parts, cleaned everything, hung them up for spraying.  To make things go quicker, I used a piece of light gauge wire to connect all my hanging parts.  This meant I could actually coat multiple pieces at a time without having to move the grounding clip for each one.  Seemed to work pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5957.jpg)

While that batch was baking, I worked on masking off all the other parts.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5961.jpg)

Turns out masking takes WAY longer than baking.  Who knew?

Here’s the morning’s batch out of the oven and after they’ve cooled down.  Look pretty good!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5962.jpg)

And you can still see the numbers I stamped on them even after the powder coat.  I was worried that it might obscure the numbers, but not so!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020d-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5967.jpg)

Turns out I found a couple of edges that I must have brushed or bumped while putting things in the oven. I’ll have to re-coat those. But for the most part, everything looks good to go!  I’m going to have to learn to be more careful in my parts handling before the powder is baked.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2019, 04:49:29 PM
I really want to get past this powder coating step – I’m feeling a little like I regressed since I had it all painted before.  I just wasn’t pleased with the paint. I’m QUITE pleased with how the powder coating is working out.  It seems much more durable.  I think I’m really going to love it!

However, even though I’d hoped to make big strides this week, I actually ended up spending most of my shop time on infrastructure projects.  I wanted to add another airline so that I didn’t have to keep switching between my blowgun and the powder coating gun. The worst of that was having to adjust the air pressure every time – for powder coating you only want 7-8 psi.  For the blowgun, while it’s not that specific, I need a lot more pressure than that for it to have the effect I’m looking for (i.e. blow the chips away!)  Not so convenient.

Anyway, sounded easy. I picked up an air hose and a manifold and was just going to plug them in.  But I got it all plugged in and could hear I had a leak. I could feel it leaking from around the manifold, so I thought it was with the connection (I’ve had bad luck with my pile of Harbor Freight quick connects – they tend to leak.  So, I got some from Home Depot. I got some fancy aluminum connectors that feel nice and solid, and are very light!)

Anyway, I spent a couple of hours trying to find the leak.  In the end, I found it was one of the outputs on the new manifold – not the connector!  Go figure!  Anyway, I put some Teflon tape on the connector and tightened it up – no more leak!  Just wish it didn’t take so long for me to figure it out.

Anyway, back to the main project.  With my remaining time, I powder coated another batch of parts. This time it went very well.  The masking, of course, took the most time.

There was one issue – I decided to powder coat the axle black just to keep it from rusting.  But there’s no hole to put a wire through for hanging. So I used tape on the end and hung the wire with that.  However, while in the oven, I heard a loud bang and looked around the shop to see what had fallen over!  Turns out one of the axles slipped out of the tape.  So, it finished up the baking process laying on the floor of the oven.  It didn’t turn out too bad, but it did leave a little flat spot on the axle.  Not sure if I will do anything about it or not.

Anyway, here’s the fruit of my labors today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020e-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5973.jpg)

And now, looking at this picture, I see a weird raised lump around the edge of those square blocks in the upper left.  I don’t remember seeing those before, so it may be more subtle than it looks.  I’ll have to check on that.  Maybe I got the powder on those parts just a little too thick?

Ah well. Still learning the more subtle side of this powder coating gig.

I am learning though.  I can REALY recognize the difference now if I’m not getting a good ground.  One time I forgot to hook it up and I could tell immediately!  Which is better than a few weeks ago for sure :)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on July 28, 2019, 04:56:23 PM
Hello Kim,

The extra added work you are doing will surely pay dividends in the long haul. However sometimes in life the shortest distance between two points is not ALWAYS the shortest.... :cussing:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 28, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
For the axles, could they have been suspended from two hooks rather than taping? I think I have seen parts done like that on car shows on TV. The Powder coating looks great, on my tool list!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2019, 06:26:38 PM
Thanks Thomas!

Chris, I considered that, and it may have been better.  But the reason I went with the single hook is that it makes the part easier to turn it while powder coating.  Having two hooks makes it a big process to rotate.  But I'm going to have to figure that out for some of the bigger upcoming parts!
Kim
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 28, 2019, 06:30:38 PM
Another option for round parts like that would be to turn up a shaft collar that could be attached to the end of the shaft ( either set screw or clamp type) and have a provision to attach the ground wire; then mask it off.
Parts look great Kim!


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2019, 02:19:18 AM
That's an interesting thought, Dave.  There's a lot to this powder coating thing that I've never considered before!  (not surprising, since this is my first exposure to it :)).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 29, 2019, 03:53:38 AM
I use a CO2 tank for powder vs. an air line.  It's very easy to get low pressure flow, and the same tank can be used for air brushing.  No water in the line is a plus.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2019, 05:23:22 AM
That's interesting - C02, eh? How expensive is it to keep that filled?  Do you find it lasts a long time or do you get it filled frequently?  That does seem like a clever idea!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 29, 2019, 12:29:11 PM
20 pound tank costs about $18 to refill.  For purposes of powder coating models it would likely last for years.

I got it originally for inflating offroad tires.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 29, 2019, 02:51:40 PM
Kirk, did you have to buy the tank initially? I assume it need some sort of regulator as well similar to welding tanks. Interesting idea though for sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on July 29, 2019, 02:58:08 PM
Kim, those look great. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but a cradle made out of aluminum bored to accept the bare ends of the shafts with just enough exposed to turn them might have worked also. You could ground the cradle and even transport the powder coated shafts to the over while still in it. Maybe too much trouble for just the four shafts however. I am really enjoying your work on the powder coating though, need to get back to doing more of it here. I keep finding things I now want to redo in powder as over the years paint has chipped off, etc.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 30, 2019, 12:02:09 AM
These are common in the offroading community, and one can buy complete setups.  The guy who sold me this one 15 years ago married a soda tank to a regulator and a hose.  I think I paid about $120 for the setup.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 30, 2019, 04:05:58 AM
Hi Kim,
 That’s coming on nicely! Loving the powder coat tutorials.
To help find leaks on air fittings in the future, if you don’t already know, a little dishwashing liquid in some water......bubbles & you’ve got a leak, makes life a whole lot easier!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2019, 05:50:33 AM
Thanks for the additional info on the CO2 Kvom.

Hi Bill, yes, lots of ways to do this.  I just have to start thinking a little differently for the powder coating.

Hi Kerrin, Thanks for the tip on the leak finder!  Yeah, the way I finally found the leak was to submerge the whole thing in a bucket of water.  It worked!  Your way would have been a lot easier though :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2019, 05:43:31 PM
Having resolved my shop infrastructure problem with the air system last week, THIS week, I was able to make real progress!  That, and I’d already had most of the parts masked and prepped – which helped a LOT!

I coated and baked 5-6 oven’s worth of parts this week!  Here’s one batch, just before being removed after their 20-minute bake at 350o.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-1-DSC_5979.jpg)

There were a few parts I decided to re-do a little.  The worst was the axle that slipped out of his tape.  Here’s the before shot.  This isn’t exactly how it looked coming out of the oven.  This is after some sanding to clean up the flattened spot in the paint.  The upper axle is a good one, the lower one is the one that fell (hopefully you can tell :))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-3-DSC_5977.jpg)

My first idea was just to reheat the part thinking that the paint would re-flow.  Well, that didn’t work.  So I tried it again with a very fine dusting of powder.  It came out passable, especially for a part that will be underneath and not seen.  Again, the axle I was repairing is the lower one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-4-DSC_5982.jpg)

For later repair jobs, I removed more paint and sprayed more powder on them, and that worked better.  I’m sure the best thing would be to completely strip the paint off and start over.  But I didn’t do that.  And they all look pretty good to me!

Here’s the full family shot before re-assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/020f-PowderCoating-2-DSC_5981.jpg)

Next job is moving on to the actual tank, starting with the floor. I’m excited to get to this next phase now!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 04, 2019, 06:05:30 PM
Those look fantastic Kim. I think you are now the MEM powder coating guru, and your great pics and descriptions will surely help others getting into this area  :NotWorthy:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 04, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
Nice looking family shot Kim!
It appears that you have the powder coating process nailed down pretty well.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on August 04, 2019, 06:55:39 PM
Hi Kim, I am curious about the differences between the painted parts and now the same parts have been stripped and powder coated. Is the powder coating that much better than an enamel finish? It also appears to a more complicated process.

Mike   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2019, 03:31:08 AM
Thanks Bill and Dave,
I've certainly been learning a lot, and I'm WAY better than a few weeks ago.  But guru?  more like second level neophyte, I'd think  ;D
But thank you,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2019, 03:47:18 AM
Hi Kim, I am curious about the differences between the painted parts and now the same parts have been stripped and powder coated. Is the powder coating that much better than an enamel finish? It also appears to a more complicated process.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I'm not enough of a paint expert to make any kind of blanket statements about what's better or worse.  I'm sure there are great enamel paints - like stuff they use on cars that has to be baked on or something?  that's pretty good stuff.  But I can tell you the rattle can spray paint I've been using just doesn't hold up that well.  I've been using Rust-oleum, but I've used other stuff too (Krylon, etc.) and none of it adheres that well, with our without primer.  The powder coating really adheres well!  Like, when the screwdriver slips off the head of the screw and you ding the paint - that happened frequently when using the spray paint.  But with this stuff, it doesn't really phase it.  The paint adheres very well.

On my test piece I took an exacto knife and scratched around on it. While you could see the marks (if you pressed hard enough) it didn't scratch all the way through to the metal.  Yes, you can keep scratching and cutting and get to the metal.  but you have to work at it.  It has way better adhesion that anything I ever got from a rattle can.

As for ease of application - yeah, the powder coating has some steps to it, and does make a bit of a mess.  But really, so does spray painting. We're just used to it.  And the best part for me is that I don't have to wait x-hours and re-coat (often 3-4 times). And then wait 24-48 hours while the paint dries.  The powder coating goes quite fast.  Spraying the powder on doesn't take that long, and the whole curing process takes about 30-35 minutes.  You bake it at 450oF till the part gets up to temperature and the powder starts to flow (about 10 min I've found with most of these smaller parts, maybe 15 or 20 with the bigger thicker parts), then a 20 min bake at 350oF to finish curing the paint.  After that, you just let them cool, take the masking off, and they are good to go!

I'm getting better and NOT having to re-do parts.  Most of the problems tend to be as I'm moving them from the powder coating both onto the rack.  I have to be careful not to brush one of the other parts with the back of my hand, or the side of my thumb or something.  That will knock all the powder off in that one spot. But I've done a few touch-ups by applying a little powder and re-baking.  Again, not that different from touching up a spray job - other than it takes FAR less time for the pain to dry.

So, yeah, there's some process involved. But right now, at this point, I am finding it WAY better (and more fun) than standard paint.  But I do reserve the right to change my mind as time goes on :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 04:33:00 PM
With all parts powder coated, today I reassembled the Tender frame and trucks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-1-DSC_5984.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-2-DSC_5988.jpg)

I’m really pleased with the powder coating! 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 04:37:58 PM
Chapter 5.1 – Tank Floor

I still had some shop time so started on the Tank Floor.  Kozo specifies brass for this, as he does for everything.  I’ve chosen to use less expensive materials for my build.  Since the tank will be exposed to water, I opted for 304 stainless steel sheet for the base.  I couldn’t find 3/32”, so went with 0.09”  (which is mighty close to 3/32” (3/32=0.093)). This cost about half what the brass did.  Seemed like a good trade to me.

But cutting a piece of stainless that large has proven to be a problem for me.  I went to cut it on my 4x6 horizontal bandsaw, placed in vertical mode.  Unfortunately, there’s on 4” of throat depth and I need about 6”.  So it doesn’t matter which way I do it, I can’t get the piece through.

I cut several inches in on each side, as far as I could. Then I moved to my scroll saw with a metal blade.  But that just doesn’t seem to cut the stainless AT ALL.  I tried various speeds and pressures but just can’t get it to make a dent in the stainless.

Then I moved to my wood bandsaw and tried it.  That took out another inch or so, but it was scary -lots of sparks and smoke - it got really hot and stopped making any progress after about 1".  I’m afraid it was hardening the area around the cut, which is making it harder to cut and will make it hard to work later.

So here’s where I am:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-3-DSC_5990.jpg)

You can see the burn marks along the last inch on this cut. That’s what I did on the wood band saw.  For one thing, I don’t have a real metal cutting blade for it.  For another, it just moves the blade way too fast, and I think that’s the main problem. Probably destroyed that blade  :-\
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-4-DSC_5993.jpg)

And my last attempt, with my hacksaw.  I know this won’t work.  Just don’t have the throat dept, even if I turn the blade 90 degrees, still not enough throat depth.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-5-DSC_5994.jpg)

I should probably get a deep throat hacksaw if there is such a thing.

But for now, I’ll probably just try chain drilling and mill between the holes.  I can’t come up with any other way to cut this chunk out of the plate stock.

That’ll be for another day though.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 11, 2019, 04:41:39 PM
Happy to see those brass slotted screws were just temporary.   :pinkelephant:

A floor mounted vertical bandsaw is really a necessity for metalwork.  You still have throat limitations on really large pieces, but they're a really useful piece of equipment.

I painted the Joy engine with automotive enamel and an airbrush, then the Muncaster with powder.  Both do a much better job than rattle can paint.  The advantage of powder is elimination of drips as well as hardness.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on August 11, 2019, 05:13:39 PM
With all parts powder coated, today I reassembled the Tender frame and trucks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-1-DSC_5984.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021a-TankFloor-2-DSC_5988.jpg)

I’m really pleased with the powder coating! 
Kim

Hello Kim,

Really looks good reassembled.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 05:18:02 PM
Hi Kim

The tender frame looks great!

304 SS in any form is not much fun to work with, as you are finding out. If you can get some bi-metal saber saw blade and go slow that will probably be your best bet. You are also going to find that drilling it isn't much easier that cutting it; but with good quality bits and proper speeds it can be done. I deal with it at work but we have the proper tools (Power Shear, NC Punch and Brake), which makes it not too bad.

Not sure how the tank is assembled or sealed but maybe a different material choice could make your life easier; galvanized steel maybe? With proper tinning it can be soldered and is much easier to cut and bend. That is what I used to make the water tank for the Pacific Engine.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 11, 2019, 06:13:12 PM
You might want to use 303SS instead.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 06:24:20 PM
You might want to use 303SS instead.

I'm not sure if 303 is available in sheet form?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 11, 2019, 06:49:46 PM
Wow, quite an update Kim, and the tender frame looks great. It's fun too when big brown delivers lots of new material and other goodies !!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2019, 10:11:56 PM
Thanks, Thomas, Dave, KVOM, and Bill,
Really appreciate the comments and recommendations.

Yes, to what Dave said - I was unable to find 303 in sheet.  SS sheet only came in 304.  I'm hoping this wasn't a total mistake.  We'll see.  I do have to drill and tap it, but no soldering required.  The tank will be screwed together using a sealant between the sides and the floor of the tank (Locktite Gasket Eliminator).

If I have too much trouble with this chunk of stainless I guess I can always go back and purchase brass.  Or try to find something like your describing Dave, some kind of galvanized steel.

We'll see... It says "Easily machinable"  but it also says it work hardens easily! I'm pretty sure that's what I've done here.

Wonder how you can anneal it?  Heat it and let it cool slowly?  Or do you heat and cool quickly?  Or does it not matter, as with brass?
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 11, 2019, 10:45:41 PM
Before you try to anneal it which may warp it beyond use. Pick up some high quality bi-metal saber saw blades and give them a try; keep the speed down and go slow. You may also have some luck with a silicon carbide grit blade (for cutting tile) until you get through the work hardened spot. Do you have a variable speed saw?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on August 11, 2019, 11:40:20 PM
Wow!! Kim the assembled chassis does look great.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 11, 2019, 11:57:55 PM
Chassis looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 04:52:49 AM
Thanks Mike and Cnr!

I'm really pleased with how the paint job turned out :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 05:26:24 AM
Dave!  You were absolutely spot on!

When you said saber saw, I thought, I have one of those!  A variable speed one, with a few (admittedly random) metal cutting blades.  So this afternoon I gave it a try.  Sure enough, it worked.  It was slow going – took me 30 minutes to complete the last 2 inches of the short side, but it was working.

I started down the long side and got another inch or so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-1-DSC_5996.jpg)

But the motor was getting hot, and it was starting to smell.  I was afraid I’d burn out the motor.  I think running it at the slow speed in metal was really pushing its limits.  The motor started to sound funny smell was getting worse. So I stopped.  I tried a fresh (not necessarily sharp) blade but that didn’t help.

Then, it hit me – I have one of those reciprocating saws – its quite powerful.  And I have a set of bi-metal blades for it!  THIS is what you were talking about, wasn’t it Dave:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-2-DSC_5998.jpg)

Now THAT puppy worked wonders.  Where it took me 45 minutes to do a few inches with the little variable speed saber saw, It only took a couple of minutes to cut the remaining 9-10 inches of the long side using the reciprocating saw!  I used a slow speed, but it was much more powerful and the blade was better.  It just cut right through that stainless.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-3-DSC_6000.jpg)

I filed the sharp burrs off the newly cut edge and set it on the frame and my heart sank… It’s like 3/8” too short!  And I was so careful to measure multiple times.  And I even left 1/8” extra for cleaning up the edges! :o
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-4-DSC_6005.jpg)

Then I looked back at the drawing, and thankfully, it shows that the tank floor stops well before the end of the frame.  Apparently, it just overlaps the edge of the rear sill.  So, I’m OK after all!  Whew!  :cartwheel:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021b-TankFloor-5-DSC_6003.jpg)

Next challenge will be figuring out how to hold this large plate on the mill while I square up all the edges. But I think that's a tractable problem.  I've got a few ideas for that! :)

Thanks for the great suggestion, Dave!  It worked like a charm!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2019, 05:36:18 AM
Happy to see those brass slotted screws were just temporary.   :pinkelephant:

A floor mounted vertical bandsaw is really a necessity for metalwork.  You still have throat limitations on really large pieces, but they're a really useful piece of equipment.

I painted the Joy engine with automotive enamel and an airbrush, then the Muncaster with powder.  Both do a much better job than rattle can paint.  The advantage of powder is elimination of drips as well as hardness.

Hey Kvom,
Sorry, I missed your earlier reply here!

Hmm... I actually still have the slotted brass screws in these pictures.  That's what holds the trucks together.  Do we not like the brass screws?  Do they need to be black?  Does it look overly blingy with the shiny brass showing?  I kinda thought it looked pretty, but maybe that's just wrong.  I'm open to input from people smarter than me in the ways of locos.

As for the bandsaw - yes, I'd love to have a fixed vertical bandsaw for metal.  I've considered converting my wood bandsaw, but that's a 'someday' project.

Thanks for your input on my build.  If I didn't have helpful input from you guys, my work would not get better!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 12, 2019, 05:43:01 PM
I use model scale screws and nuts myself.  You won't find brass screws on a locomotive.  That said, it's a matter of preference.

Confession:  I used some socket head screws on my Kozo.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 12, 2019, 10:41:39 PM
I agree...it's a matter of what suits your eye. I think the brass adds a nice bit of contrast to the black and red, but that's just me. What did Kozo use?

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 13, 2019, 05:47:26 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to be kinda prototypical, but I'm also willing to go a little off the full black to have a little bling.  I liked Kozo's red wheels, and bright brass in various places.

As for bras round head screws here - I'm not sure.  He clearly calls for Rd Head screws, and everything is brass.  But it's hard to tell from his pictures.  I thought he left them bright.  But upon further investigation, that may not be the case.  It's kinda looking more black to me now.  The only color picture I have of Kozo's Pennsy is the slip cover on the book. Everything else is black and white.

I'm going to postpone a decision here and leave them brass for now.  I always have the option of blackening them up later on.

I'm very open to input here, so don't hold back.  I promise to do what I want to in the end, regardless. :naughty:  But I do believe I come to a better decision having other's input. I appreciate it more than you know!

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 24, 2019, 10:57:30 PM
I've been out camping with my family, so haven't had a lot of time to play in the shop.  But today I made some incremental progress on the Tank Floor.

I spent about half the time creating the setup.  I had to do a lot of work to make sure my work envelope was big enough for the floor. First off, I had to move the ram head then re-tram.  No small task in itself.  Even then, I figured I’d have to do one side, then the other, re-calibrating the part for each long side.  But in the end, I was able to use a 3/8” carbide mill all around the edge without moving the part.  I JUST squeaked by – had to remove the chip cover on my X-DRO which gave me an extra half-inch on the Y-axis.  And I also defeated the stops on both axes which gave me a little more space too.  But it worked :)

After all that, I finally mounted the part on the mill and dialed in as parallel as I could.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-1-DSC_6009.jpg)

I cleaned up the top edge (this was one of the rough sawn edges) then did the left edge (also, a rough sawn edge).  To do the short edges I had to play clamp hop-scotch.  Milled up to one, took it off, then milled to the next one, put the first one back on and took the 2nd one-off, then completed the side.  This is just after completing the edge with one of the clamps removed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-3-DSC_6016.jpg)

After completing the right side, I then moved to the bottom edge.  This one was easier because I didn’t have to move the clamps. But it took a long time (like the top) because it was a long cut!  This is an action shot.  I don’t take many action shots, but I had so much time during this cut I went for it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-4-DSC_6018.jpg)

And here’s the floor square and cut to size.  This took me a long time!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-5-DSC_6028.jpg)

I plan to leave it mounted on the mill table in order to drill the multitude of holes required:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021c-TankFloor-6-DSC_6029.jpg)

While I considered waiting and drilling when I have the mating part, I’ve found that using the DRO, with the same spacing between holes on each part, the parts fit together quite well.  And if I wait, I just have to do it then.  I’ll check the spacing on a few (where it connects to the frame) but for the bulk of them, I’ll just drill where the plans show.  I will verify on the parts I still have to create yet when they are made.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on August 25, 2019, 12:39:59 AM
Nice work on that Kim!! At almost 16" that's a sizeable sheet of stock.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 31, 2019, 07:47:15 AM
Just catching up again on here. The truck assembly looks great  :praise2:  :praise2: I'm glad you finally beat that piece of stainless sheet  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 01, 2019, 06:36:53 AM
Thanks, Bill and Roger!

Continuing with the tank floor, I had a whole bunch of holes to drill.

I started by blueing the sheet and marking the locations of all the holes.  I did this while it was in place on the mill.  I didn’t want to have to square it up again!

I also did the calculations so I could use the DRO. I find that doing it both ways really helps prevent mistakes.  And in fact, it did today!  There were two or three times where I was off by a digit in locating a hole and having laid out the locations saved me.  And in one case I had actually calculated the coordinates incorrectly!  Yikes!  But my redundant method caught my mistake. So it was worth the extra effort!

I circled each of the cross points to make them easier to see.  Make sure I got all my holes before I took off all the clamps.  You can see I had to take turn removing hold downs so I could get to the holes under them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-1-DSC_6035.jpg)

A few of the holes needed to be threaded…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-2-DSC_6038.jpg)

And two were reamed to 5/16”.  I believe these will be for the water feed lines– one from the hand pump, and the other a feed line to the axle pump.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-3-DSC_6040.jpg)

After all the holes were drilled, I flipped the part over and made an 82o countersink.  All the holes that needed this, I circled in red.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-4-DSC_6041.jpg)

When I completed that exercise, I cleaned up the part and mounted it on the tender frame.  The only mistake was that I countersunk two holes on the wrong side.  So those got countersunk on BOTH sides :)  Not perfect, but nobody will see it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-5-DSC_6044.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/021d-TankFloor-6-DSC_6047.jpg)

Next, I get to start on the curved sides.  I’m excited about starting this!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 01, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
That's a LOT of holes Kim. Happy it all turned out well though!!  I am also looking forward to the curved sides but even now its looking great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 02, 2019, 04:56:23 PM
Thanks Bill,
I'm off to have some shop time today! Got to love those 3 day weekends - at least those of us who still work for a living!  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 02, 2019, 06:53:39 PM
Yeah I remember those three day weekends. Much better now that everyday is Saturday  :LittleDevil:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 02, 2019, 07:03:07 PM
Holey base plate Batman!   :o
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 03, 2019, 05:41:25 AM
Holey base plate Batman!   :o

 :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 03, 2019, 06:07:20 AM
Chapter 5.2 – Side Plates

Here’s how I started today:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-1-DSC_6052.jpg)
This isn’t REALLY wood - the discerning reader will quickly realize that this is a former for the tender sides! I had some maple from a project many years back and thought I’d use that. 

Laid out the shape of the former.  This will be both left and right sides, formed together, then cut in half in the next step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-2-DSC_6054.jpg)

Then I cut the angled edges (sorry, no pic) and rounded the corners on a disk sander that needs a new disk.  But I didn’t have one, so as can be seen in the lower left of the picture, it was more of burning the wood than sanding it round :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-3-DSC_6058.jpg)

Now I’ve set up my router table with a 1/4” round-over bit to round over all the edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-4-DSC_6056.jpg)

And here’s the completed former:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-5-DSC_6062.jpg)

Following the same process, I made a top-side clamping board. I just used a piece of plywood for this.  No rounded edges on this one.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-6-DSC_6066.jpg)

Finally, I got out the metal!  I cut a chunk of 0.040” copper plate to about the right size, blued it up and laid out the pattern.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-7-DSC_6069.jpg)

Cut it out using the scroll saw:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-8-DSC_6074.jpg)

And here we are; all the pieces to shape the sides!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022a-SidePlates-9-DSC_6079.jpg)
And that will have to wait till next time!
 
Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 03, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
Nice progress Kim - looks like you are busy making parts  :cheers:   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on September 16, 2019, 05:01:32 PM
Nice Progress Kim, I smiled when I read about the countersunk holes on the wrong side, I have done that myself a few times, so I know now that I am not the only one.

good looking work on the former, the tricky part is keeping the copper in the correct place as you do each annealing, I wonder if putting in a couple of tiny holes along the centreline where the sheet gets cut would help in keeping it aligned properly Kozo just shows a single clamp in his book, which is probably enough once it is back in the big bench vice. I have found that multiple annealings are a little fiddly to realign after each one.

mike   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2019, 09:40:45 PM
Really good thought Mike!
I've wondered about that too, figured I'd just line it up as best as I could on the center line after each annealing. But I like your idea way better!

Luckily (?) I've not started this yet, so can still do it the right way.  I've got a daughter getting married in a few weeks and had family in town for the bridal shower this week.  This is a wonderful thing but the side effect is that there won't be a lot of progress on the model engineering front for a while. :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 17, 2019, 01:00:30 PM
Congratulations on the upcoming wedding Kim. Enjoy the time with family and your daughter!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2019, 06:43:38 AM
Thanks Bill!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
Got a little time in the shop today.  It's been a while!

After my last update, I was just about to form the sides of the tender.  The left and right sides are formed together as a single unit.  I’d just made the forms and my next step was to start hammering away. But Mike made the suggestion to put some registration pins along the cut line so that it would be easier to get the part back in the form in the correct place after each annealing.  Great idea! thought, I. :)

So I did.  Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-1-DSC_6081.jpg)

With that done, I assembled the sandwich former and started pounding away.  Here’s the first round of forming.  Pretty cool!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-2-DSC_6088.jpg)

After an anneal, here’s the second round.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-3-DSC_6090.jpg)

Third round:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-4-DSC_6092.jpg)

And skipping a few, this is after the final round of annealing.  I think I did 6 rounds of annealing.  The last several were only working on the four tight corners.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-5-DSC_6096.jpg)

You can see on this one corner I apparently got things a little too hot while annealing the copper.  It won’t be a problem; I’ll just file it down. But I do need to be careful there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-6-DSC_6100.jpg)

And here it is after being removed from the form.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-7-DSC_6103.jpg)

And finally, cut in half.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/022b-SidePlates-8-DSC_6106.jpg)

Pretty exciting, eh? :)

Thanks for following along.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 29, 2019, 12:41:45 AM
That came out great!  How did you cut the two halves apart without distorting the sheet? Looks like the alignment pins probably made a good center reference on the metal for cutting too.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on September 29, 2019, 01:05:20 AM
Hello Kim,

That is some beautiful work.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on September 29, 2019, 01:21:55 AM
Well done Kim!! Those came out great  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2019, 05:55:31 AM
Thanks Chris, Thomas, and Bill!

Chris, I cut the halves apart using my 4x6 HF band saw in the vertical position.  It worked pretty well.  Since it was narrow on one end, I could get it almost 90% through the saw that way. Then I flipped it around the other way for the last couple of inches.

I had planned on using the scroll saw, like I used to cut the sheet out in the first place.  But the band saw is WAY faster.  And since it fit, why not use it, right? :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 29, 2019, 07:58:36 PM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:

Oh man they are small  :o  How did you make them stay - are they soldered in place ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 29, 2019, 09:37:03 PM
Nice progress Kim.
The tender sides are looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2019, 05:23:27 AM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
Here you can see the three little brads I used for registration pins:

Oh man they are small  :o  How did you make them stay - are they soldered in place ?

I used a interference fit into the bottom wood form.  For these brads a #55 drill makes a tight clearance fit, so I used a #53 in the maple form, cut the head off the brad and just pushed them into the hole.  It made a nice tight fit and they didn't come out during use.  I drilled #55 through the copper, and #57 in the top piece of plywood.

This way I could take the copper plate off, but the brads stayed in place in the form.

Probably should have show a picture of all three pieces of the sandwich to give you a better idea, but I wasn't that smart :)

Kim

A #55 drill is a tight clearance fit, and that's what I used through the copper.  The brads
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2019, 05:24:40 AM
Thanks Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on September 30, 2019, 05:17:57 PM
Hi Kim, even if I am quiet, I am following along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2019, 03:31:37 PM
Thank you, Achim!  I appreciate all the support :)


This is the first Saturday in some time that I’ve really gotten to play in my shop!  And I made some pretty good progress! Today I finished up the sides to the tender.  This involved cutting some edge support pieces for the sides and soldering them into place.  Kozo calls these “Side Corner Members.”

Before I get started on the update, I wanted to post one more shot of the formers I used for the sides.  I’d added some ‘registration post’ (i.e. little nails) to help align things between annealing. There were some questions about that so I took one more picture to show just the wood formers, without the copper side plate in the middle.  The brads are friction fit into one side of the former, and the other side just has clearance holes, as did the side plate that I was forming.  Hope this helps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-01-DSC_6111.jpg)


In my last update, I’d just finished shaping the sides and cutting the one-piece the middle to make the left and right sides.  So, my next step was to clean up the cut and make sure the sides were of equal size.  I did that mainly on the 4x36 belt sander.  (This is a staged shot.  I generally don’t steady my hand on the belt while it's moving.  That would hurt!)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-02-DSC_6109.jpg)

Then I spent some time cleaning up the sides to get rid of the soot and heating discoloration.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-03-DSC_6118.jpg)


Chapter 5.3 – Side Corner Members

Next up was to make the Side Corner Members.  These are 5/16” square brass bars that will fit along the base of each side. They provide rigidity and a way to attach the sides to the base.

After cutting the two pieces, I clamped both of them in the mill and squared up the ends, getting them to the correct length.  I realize that isn’t ideal, to have the bars sticking out from the vise, but I wanted to be able to use the DRO to measure the length.  So I just took light cuts, very gently and it seemed to work out OK.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-04-DSC_6115.jpg)

Next, I rounded the ends to fit the inside contour of the sides. This is just a standard 1/4" round-over wood router bit. It worked fine on the brass.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-05-DSC_6123.jpg)

Then drilled the mounting holes in the corner pieces.  I did them both at the same time, for simplicity.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-06-DSC_6124.jpg)

And then tapped them 3-48.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-07-DSC_6130.jpg)

Rotated the corner pieces 90 degrees and drilled holes for some 1-72 screws. These will be used to hold the pieces to the side for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-08-DSC_6131.jpg)

I fit each corner piece to the corresponding side. Using clamps to hold the pieces together in the right place, I drilled through the 1-72 holes into the copper sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-09-DSC_6133.jpg)

Then I opened all those holes up to be a clearance fit for #1 screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-10-DSC_6135.jpg)

And finally, I tapped the holes in the side corner members.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-11-DSC_6140.jpg)

Now, I was ready to solder the sides pieces up.
I cleaned up the solder joint area and prepped it for soldering with flux and lengths of solder.  It parts held together with five 1-72 brass screws.  Now, this is soft solder.  The point of these joints is to make the tank sides watertight (and to hold the parts together of course :)).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-12-DSC_6141.jpg)

After soldering:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-13-DSC_6144.jpg)

And here are the two sides, soldered and cleaned up.  I couldn’t fit these large pieces into my pickling container :(.  I sloshed the pickling juice around on the parts, then washed them up with soap, and I guess I’m OK.  But there was no ‘soak’ like I usually do.  I’m going to have to find a larger container to use I guess…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-14-DSC_6146.jpg)

And finally, here’s a family shot with the sides mounted:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-15-DSC_6151.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/023a-SideCornerMembers-16-DSC_6153.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 13, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
Nice work Kim!
It's starting to take shape now.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on October 13, 2019, 05:25:41 PM
Hello Kim,

That is some beautiful work, really nice.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 13, 2019, 06:13:00 PM
Very nice - love the family shots!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on October 13, 2019, 07:55:13 PM
Kim that looks great  the family shot shows it all off well.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2019, 10:27:57 PM
Hi Dave, Thomas, Chris, and Mike!
Thanks for stopping by to take a look and thanks for the kind comment :)

It is pretty fun when it starts to look like something!  :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 14, 2019, 12:18:55 AM
Looking great Kim!! Nice to see you get some shop time and you made the most of it  :ThumbsUp:

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 14, 2019, 04:39:21 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2019, 05:37:19 AM
Thanks Bill and CNR!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on October 14, 2019, 06:09:07 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work! Coming on nicely!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 20, 2019, 09:19:14 AM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: The wood router worked well on brass  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 02:21:02 PM
Thanks Kerrin and Roger,
Yeah, I've seen other people use router bits on their metal so I was optimistic that I'd have equally good success, and I did :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 03:33:42 PM
Chapter 5.4 – Bottom Horseshoe Member and Top Horseshoe Member

Today I worked on the Bottom Horseshoe Member. This is a support piece for the “U” shaped cut out in the front part of the tender. This U shaped cutout in the tender is where the coal would be piled to feed the firebox.
Here’s a picture showing all the pieces that make up this U-shaped section. Today’s focus is the Bottom Horseshoe Member (6), the Top Horseshoe Member (7) will be next, followed by the Verge Board (8) and the Vertical Sheet (9) which makes up the sides for the horseshoe shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-10-20191020_065607.jpg)

The Bottom Horseshoe Member is an 11” piece of 1/4” square brass. After cutting and trimming to length, I made the specified cutouts for the corners.  These cutouts will be where the 90o bends will be.  Kozo gives exact lengths for these cutouts and they work out just right!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-1-DSC_6159.jpg)

Next, I turned the part and drilled and tapped the #3-48 mounting holes.  I probably should have waited till the part was formed and then marked the spots for these from the base, but I chose not to.  Kozo’s plans are quite accurate and I had faith that the holes would fit.  And it's SO much easier to work on the piece when it is flat and straight than when its all bent up.  So I just went for it. Worst case I’d just have to do it again.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-2-DSC_6162.jpg)

When I get to soldering the whole horseshoe together, I’ll need holes for the screws to hold things in place.  So I drilled them now. The mating holes in the other piece will be located from these, so it's OK to dill them before forming.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-3-DSC_6164.jpg)

Here’s the part, all ready for bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-4-DSC_6167.jpg)

Now, here’s the part where I learned a lot.

I started bending the corners.  I’m thinking – I wonder if I will need to anneal this.  Kozo didn’t say anything about that in the instructions.  Just as I’m thinking this, ‘snap’ the part broke in two.  And I had my answer. Yes, of course, I should have annealed it! :facepalm:

So, before I started over, I decided to try silver soldering the parts together.  And that actually seemed to work out OK.  Now, I wasn’t smart enough to take pictures of my mishap.  I was kind-a focused on working myself out of my stupidity and wasn’t thinking about pictures at the moment.  But here’s one of the repaired spot after silver soldering (and a little filing, cause I was a little too free with the solder) while bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-5-DSC_6169.jpg)

And a wider shot of the bending process.  It took a couple of annealings to get the full 90o bends in place, but no more breakage!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-6-DSC_6168.jpg)

And what’s cool, is you can see that the lengths where Kozo had you narrow the width of the brass – they bent nice and evenly. You get a nice even radius there.  That’s pretty cool!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-7-DSC_6173.jpg)

Another closeup of the repair job I did:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-8-DSC_6174.jpg)

And here it is fitted in place on the tender floor.  And yes, all the holes lined up, though it did take some adjusting of the shape.  That’s the other reason I put the mounting holes in earlier.  I knew the spacing for the holes would be correct because I used the DRO.  The question was the radius of the corners.  So, if I did the holes first, they would help me get the right radius.  Does that make sense?  It made sense to me anyway. :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-9-DSC_6177.JPG)

More pieces to go, but I think this one turned out pretty good!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 20, 2019, 03:36:49 PM
Nice recovery!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Thanks Chris!
It's always frustrating to 'learn' things, but that's what I love about hobbies.  I'm always learning something :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on October 20, 2019, 07:52:59 PM
The fix worked out great Kim. Nice looking part and the patched area won't really be seen anyway. Nicely done.

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2019, 06:31:01 PM
Next up is the Top Horseshoe Member.  This is just like the Bottom Horseshoe Member, but it's for the top part :)

This was made from another piece of 1/4" square brass, but quite a bit longer (about 17”).  The Top Horseshoe Member has two sets of curves, one set to make the horseshoe shape, and another set to make the long uprights to hold it at the top.  The cuts in this piece are symmetrical about the center, so I made the cut on one side, then flipped it around and did the same on the other side.  This is the cut used to help for the curve from upright to horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-01-DSC_6181.jpg)

After doing the pair of cuts on a different side, I flipped the part to do a 0.040” cut for the Verge Board.  This one was the full length of the horseshoe.  But I only did the sides of this cut. The middle was suspended out over nothing so I decided to wait till I could remove the makeshift stop I’d put in place.  Then I would come back and finish off this cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-02-DSC_6185.jpg)

Next, I made a bunch of threaded holes (0-80 and 1-72) for holding the parts together during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-03-DSC_6189.jpg)

With that, all the work that needed the stop was complete. So I removed it and finished up the 0.040” deep cut mentioned earlier.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-04-DSC_6191.jpg)

Then it was off to the vice to do the bends. Here’s the first step of making the horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-05-DSC_6192.jpg)

After a few annealing and bending sessions, I had this:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-06-DSC_6195.jpg)

I used the Bottom Horseshoe as a template for bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-07-DSC_6194.jpg)

Next, I went after the upright bends:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-08-DSC_6198.jpg)

A few more annealing rounds and it was all done:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/025a-TopHorseshoeMember-09-DSC_6206.JPG)

And that’s that for the Top Horseshoe Member.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2019, 06:34:36 PM
Chapter 5.5 – Verge Board

On to the Verge Board!
I’ll re-post the picture of the horseshoe assembly.  The Verge Board is labeled ( 8 ) here.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/024a-BottomHorseshoeMember-10-20191020_065607.jpg)

I carefully laid out the Verge Board pattern on some paper then used spray adhesive to attach it onto the 0.040” sheet brass. Using the bandsaw, I cut that chunk off the huge piece of brass that I have.  I got this brass sheet from a local place here that USED to sell offcuts and scrap pieces by the pound. They don’t anymore, which is too bad.  I used to get some great deals on metal there.  Guess it cost them too much to sell the offcuts.  Now they just recycle it. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-1-DSC_6210.jpg)

Using the scroll saw, I cut the shape out of the sheet.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-2-DSC_6212.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-3-DSC_6214.jpg)

After a little clean up on sander, I bent the tabs to 15o.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-4-DSC_6216.jpg)

Then I bent the 90o corners and fit it to the top horseshoe member.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-5-DSC_6223.jpg)

It's clear that I have some fitting to do here.  The end should fit inside the notch here. I have about 3/32” to remove off each end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026a-VergeBoard-6-DSC_6223.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look at my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 05, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 05, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
Looks good Kim.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 06, 2019, 03:34:07 AM
Thanks Cnr and Mike! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 07, 2019, 01:48:20 AM
I left off fitting the Verge Board to the Top Horseshoe Member.

I started by drilling some holes to attach it firmly, so I could accurately mark the length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-01-DSC_6224.jpg)

Here I’m putting a mark to indicate the length on each side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-02-DSC_6227.jpg)

After filing & sanding to length, here it is, fitted in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-03-DSC_6230.jpg)

Now, I need to make the rim of the verge board. The rim is a strip that runs all around the verge board.  It is 1/8” wide, made from 1/16” brass sheet. The problem is that it’s a ‘little’ bigger than the verge board itself, but needs to fit flush with the edge.  So, I rolled the verge board around some and came up with this general shape.  I started to mark off the 1/8” width but then decided not to do that till I’d cut out the top profile, as you’ll see.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-04-DSC_6231.jpg)

I started by cutting out the shape on the band saw, leaving a bit around all edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-05-DSC_6235.jpg)

Then I shaped the top edge of one side on the disk sander, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-06-DSC_6238.jpg)

And used a divider set at 1/8” to mark the width for the part I’d shaped.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-07-DSC_6241.jpg)

Then cut out the bottom edge using the scroll saw. It goes slower, but it gives me much better control over the cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-08-DSC_6242.jpg)

Next, I drilled and tapped some 1-72 holes, for solder holders.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-09-DSC_6244.jpg)

And, holding the rim in place, I transferred the holes to the verge board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-10-DSC_6246.jpg)

Then drilled them with 1-72 clearance holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-11-DSC_6248.jpg)

After attaching the length that I had shaped, I formed the rim around the verge board and marked the rest of the shape up to the sharp bend at the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-12-DSC_6250.jpg)

After cutting and shaping up to that point, I held it in place with the existing screws and clamps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-13-DSC_6252.jpg)

And marked that final piece.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-14-DSC_6253.jpg)

Here’s the final rim piece, shaping complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-15-DSC_6256.jpg)

And now, with the trial fit before soldering, I’m ready to go!  One thing I found in the trial fit is that one of my carefully marked holes didn’t line up :(  But it seemed to have a good connection even without that screw so I didn't bother with it and just left it in to fill the hole. (You can see that right at the lower bend in the rim.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-16-DSC_6258.jpg)

After silver soldering the rim to the verge board:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-17-DSC_6261.jpg)

And finally, after a nice pickle bath and a lot of clean up and filing work to even everything out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/026b-VergeBoard-18-DSC_626118-DSC_6265.JPG)

THAT was a lot of work for one little part!

Thanks for taking a look.
Kim

PS.  You might note that I've made way more progress in the last few days than I normally would.  That's because I got my daughter all married this weekend and now that everyone has left I still have a few days off.  So I just had to play out in the shop :)  How fun is that?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 07, 2019, 02:51:32 AM
Lots of work............but wonderful results. Well done Kim.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 07, 2019, 03:06:37 AM
Beautiful work Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 07, 2019, 04:20:38 AM
Very nice job on the edge piece Kim.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 07, 2019, 06:24:14 AM
Thanks for the kind comments, Jim, Dave, and Mike!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 01:12:09 AM
Chapter 5.6 – Vertical Board

The next, and final part in this sub-assembly, is the Vertical Board.  It will tie the whole thing together.

I started by cutting a piece of 0.040” brass sheet from the parent stock to use for the Vertical Board.  Didn’t take a picture of me sawing.  You've seen that before.

As I was getting ready to bend the piece, I noticed that I’d messed up on the Top Horseshoe Member.  It was supposed to have the vertical bends with the cut-out portion facing down, that way the solid part of the bar would be there to support the sheet metal.  As can be seen in this photo, I bent it backwards. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-0-DSC_6271.JPG)

I toyed with the idea of leaving it as it was but decided against it.  I did several rounds of annealing and bending to undo the bends, then did a few more rounds to bend it the other way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-01-DSC_6272.jpg)

And after that, I had to fiddle with the holes in the Verge Board to get things to fit again.  But in the end, I won:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-02-DSC_6275.jpg)

Now, back to bending the Vertical Board.  Kozo shows an interesting little tool for bending that’s nothing more than a couple of bars clamped together to help bend the brass evenly.  I made one of those and gave it a shot:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-03-DSC_6278.jpg)

Took a couple rounds of annealing:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-04-DSC_6283.jpg)

And here’s what I ended up with.  Not such a perfect fit :(  There’s that nice gap along the upper right corner.  Now, it is supposed to be 0.040” away from that edge, but this is way too far!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-05-DSC_6286.jpg)

So, I took an appropriately sized steel rod and stuck in my vice to use as an anvil.   And pounding around with that (using a soft hammer) I was able to re-arrange things to have a much better fit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-06-DSC_6291.jpg)

This is where I finished up last week.  I’d intended to get this posted, but after about midweek I decided to wait and just finish up the part before posting.
So today, I started by transferring the screw holes onto the vertical board and drilling them.  It's never that easy, of course, and I had to adjust the holes here and there to make everything line up.  But I got it done:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-07-DSC_6293.jpg)

Then I did the same for the Bottom Horseshoe member:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-08-DSC_6295.jpg)

Here is the whole assembly, cleaned and fluxed up ready for solder (soft solder, that is).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-09-DSC_6303.jpg)

After soldering, pickling, and a quick wash-up, here’s how it looks:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-10-DSC_6305.jpg)

The last step I did today was to file down the heads of the solder-holder screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027a-VerticalBoard-11-DSC_6308.jpg)

I’ve still got a bit of work on the whole horseshoe assembly, so I didn’t finish it today.  But next week for sure!

Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 17, 2019, 01:26:33 AM
Nice job finessing the sheet, and really impressive that you could rebend that rail, must have judged when to re anneal just right.


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 01:35:40 AM
Thanks, Chris,
Not sure I knew - I only went about 1/3 of the way then re-annealed. That's when it started to feel not quite as ready to bend.  I did a lot of rounds of annealing - seemed safer than pushing it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on November 17, 2019, 08:05:35 AM
Does look good Kim, well done.  :popcorn:

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on November 17, 2019, 01:10:18 PM
Amazing progress Kim. There is a LOT of work in these parts as you say but the results look great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 17, 2019, 03:08:23 PM
Nice rework there and the final result looks good.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2019, 05:57:32 PM
Thanks, Jo, Bill, and Mike,
Appreciate the comments!  :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2019, 01:48:42 AM
Continuing on with the Horseshoe Assembly (the place where the coal sits before its shoveled into the boiler).

Next step was to file the vertical board flush with the bottom of the Bottom Horseshoe Bracket.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-01-DSC_6311.jpg)

Here we are, all nice, flat, and flush!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-02-DSC_6313.jpg)

Then I mounted the horseshoe assembly onto the floor of the tank.  All the holes lined up well, and I was thankful for that!  However, I discovered that one side didn’t line up the way it should have.  The edge circled in red should line up with the edge circled in blue.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-03-DSC_6315a.jpg)

Here’s a shot straight on from the side that might show better what I mean.  The red arrows point at the edge on the horseshoe, in the back.  And the blue arrows point at the edge of the copper side. Those two edges should line up, but the inside edge (marked in red) is about 40-50 thou off.  Not sure why, but it is.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-04-DSC_6319a.jpg)

So, I decided to cut the inner edge down a little to make it match.  I considered filing it, but that would have been hard for me to keep it straight, flat and uniform. So I decided to mill it down.  But to do that, I needed to make an appropriately sized wood spacer.  And to do that, I needed to use my table saw.  But before I could use my table saw, I needed to finally get around to cleaning it up.
As it turns out, a couple of months ago, our water heater went out.  And for some reason, they thought it was a good idea to put the house water heater in my shop!  Go figure!  (Well, sure, my shop is in the garage, but really, how inconsiderate!) So when our water heater went, it was leaking water all over the floor of the garage.  Nothing got seriously damaged, but in the hubbub, some wet items got sat on my table saw (since it was a nice, inviting flat surface).  A week later when I noticed, there was a nice layer of rust on the tabletop.
So, today, I took some oil and some steel wool and went to work.  Then I got smart and used a scotchbrite brush in my drill to speed the process up.  It worked pretty well. What you’re seeing on the table saw is the brown sludge that is created when the oil is mixed with the rust.  The table didn’t look THAT bad!  But after about an hour I had that cleaned up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-05-DSC_6322.jpg)

Here’s my setup for shaving down that edge on the horseshoe assembly.  You can see the piece of wood I cut to act  as a spacer in the open space between the sides of the horseshoe. The piece was clamped down well, but since it was so far from the support I took very shallow cuts. And I’m only cutting brass, so it worked out quite well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-06-DSC_6325.jpg)

Following that, I cut the inner wall, leaving 0.040” sticking up so it will mate up with the tank wall piece that will be coming next.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-07-DSC_6330.jpg)

then, I filed the square corners round, leaving the same 0.040” flange around the edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-08-DSC_6333.jpg)

And finally mounted the horseshoe assembly back in its place.  Things line up much better now!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-09-DSC_6336.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-10-DSC_6338.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/027b-VerticalBoard-11-DSC_6339.jpg)

So that’s it for the Horseshoe assembly.  Next up will be the front plates that cover the gap between the sides and the horseshoe assembly.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on November 24, 2019, 03:02:23 AM
Nice result Kim.  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the nice "back story" on how you got this accomplished. One thing I've learned about model machining is that there are always a lot of "back stories" involved in the process of machining a part!  :shrug:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2019, 05:32:07 AM
Thanks Jim,
So true!  There's always a story that goes into every part.  And that's what I find so fascinating about this site is that I get to learn how others tackle making things.  Each part has its own challenges, and I learn so much from reading everyone else's posts!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 24, 2019, 07:34:00 AM
That's some excellent fabrication  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 24, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Nice save on the fit.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 25, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Great repair Kim! that one could have gotten very involved if it were off a few thou more.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 12:53:00 PM
Thanks, Roger, Mike, and CNR!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 01:01:27 PM
Chapter 5.7– Front Plates

The Front Plates cover the space between the sides of the tank and the horseshoe.  They start along the bottom front of the tank then curve over the top and cover about 3” back along the top of the tank.

These are made from 0.040” sheet brass. After cutting a couple of pieces from the sheet stock, I cleaned up the edges on the mill and took them to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-1-DSC_6341.jpg)

The next thing was to shave off 0.040” along the section that would back up to the verge board.  I also cut out a notch for the rim on the verge.  I marked this off and cut the deeper notch on the scroll saw, then filed off the rest.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-2-DSC_6345.jpg)

This how the notch fits.  There will be one of these plates on each side of course.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-3-DSC_6349.jpg)

But, before we can bend them, I need to press mock rivet heads into the side of the plate.  So, I need to make a rivet head puncher.  Here’s what I turned out of W-1 for the punch.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-4-DSC_6352.jpg)

I then made an anvil with a 0.056” hole, as specified by the plans.  I hardened and tempered the punch and anvil, then fit the anvil into a base plate of aluminum that I could hold in my mill vice.  I took a piece of 5/8” square aluminum for a back fence to slide the material along.  The problem was that when I set the fence for the 5/64” distance from the edge (as specified by Kozo in the plans) my punch was too big to fit past the fence.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-5-DSC_6353.jpg)

I’d already hardened the punch, so taking that down more wasn’t an easy option.  The easiest thing to do was make a shorter fence.  So I found a length of 1/4" thick aluminum bar and used that.  No interference there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-6-DSC_6356.jpg)

I tried punching some test rivets in a piece of scrap (I cut the notch in the wrong place on one plate and had to start over). The challenge here is going to be getting them spaced evenly, and punching them to a uniform depth. The four on the right look pretty good to me. The remaining ones on the left look a little too shallow though.  I need to push a little harder on those, I think.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/028a-FrontPlates-7-DSC_6357.jpg)

I’ll practice a little more before I ‘rivet’ all around the front plates.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on November 30, 2019, 03:26:20 PM
Kim,I found that the easiest way to get the rivets spaced evenly was to make the die underneath the double the diameter of the space + the diameter of the rivet when punched. it might take a couple of tries to get it just right but once set it is pretty consistent. Also I made the die depression to the depth of the head when punched.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2019, 05:32:57 PM
Thanks Mike!  That's a great idea.  I'll have to look at doing that.  Not sure how to know how deep to make the hole in the anvil. I'll have to give that a try.  But I can see how to calculate the diameter of the anvil :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 30, 2019, 06:45:41 PM
The way I had gotten the spacings even was to drill a second hole to the side of the one used to make the dimples, that way the previous dimple would have a place to register into, making the rivets an even distance apart.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 09, 2019, 02:41:36 AM
Well, if you recall back a few episodes (which I’m sure you don’t, so I’ll tell you) I shaved off a bit of one side of the horseshoe assembly to make it line up better.  Unfortunately, as I suspected, that was only a symptom of the real problem which I hadn’t yet noticed.

It seems that this whole unit is a little cockeyed somehow.  It sits flat, and all the front edges are perpendicular to the base, but the back edge isn’t right.  The backside is all catawampus.  You can see in this picture from above that even though the bottom is nice and square, the top edge has a jaunty angle.  It should, of course, be parallel to the bottom.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-1-DSC_6366.jpg)

I could make up for it with other parts, but I think having the top of the verge board not be square to the rest of the tender will be very noticeable.  I think it will catch everyone's attention. And even if it doesn't, it will bother me.  I won’t be happy.  Plus it will make me care less about the remainder of the build. And I don’t want that.

I don’t know how to get it square at this point. And if I did, I think the ‘fix’ I made earlier will cause yet another problem.  I believe that the reason the front was sticking out, was because the back was whacked out like this.

So, I’ve decided to re-do the whole coal bin unit here. (or Horseshoe assemble as Kozo calls it).

I didn’t have any more 1/4" square brass bar. So while I was waiting for that to come in, I started cutting out the brass plate that will be needed.  The top one is for the ‘vertical board’ (the big piece that wraps around the inside of the horseshoe) and the lower one is the Verge Board (the slopy one that goes around the top of the horseshoe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-2-DSC_6369.jpg)

Well, this was last week’s update.

During the week my brass arrived.  So, yesterday I started on the lower horseshoe member.  I found a better way to hold it for milling.  And as usual, the 2nd time goes faster:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-3-DSC_6378.jpg)

Here’s a picture of how I lined up the piece so it was parallel to the mill bed.  This works pretty well and is a fairly quick way to get it setup.  Not as fast as the vice, of course, but with such a long piece, the vice was problematic anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-4-DSC_6377.jpg)

Unfortunately, the last step of drilling and tapping the #3-48 mounting holes went terribly awry.  I had gotten some 2.3mm bits off amazon – like a dozen for $3.99 or something.  2.3mm is the recommended drill size to use with the #3-48 roll-form tap.  Unfortunately, the bit I had wasn’t cutting well.  So, I swapped it out.  It took me 3 bits to find one that was sharp enough to cut.  And after drilling the holes, I went to tap them, and the tap almost slides through the hole :(.  I checked the hole size.  2.3mm is about 0.090”.  These holes were over 0.100”!  These supposed 2.3mm drills make 2.5-2.6mm holes.  :(

These are trash bits.  I can’t even really use them for 0.10” bits because they barely cut anyway. And I’m just trying to cut brass!  This isn’t stainless or anything.  Very frustrating.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029a-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-5-DSC_6381.jpg)

I’m never buying cheap drill bits again. It isn’t worth it.  Not only do they not work, they ruin the part you’ve put so much time and effort into!

Another lesson learned.  Again… (I think I learned this one already…)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 09, 2019, 07:47:44 AM
Hi Kim,
 Well that’s a bugger on two fronts.

An old friend of mine has a very good saying.......

“The high cost of saving money”

A hard lesson to learn......we’ve all been there done that!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on December 09, 2019, 02:33:22 PM
Wow - this is some lovely work Kim - very impressive. So involved! You must be pleased with how this is coming along.

I totally empathize on drill bits. I've made that mistake. At first I assumed I was just drilling holes with poor working practices, but you can't beat quality cutting tools.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2019, 05:12:29 AM
Thanks Kerrin and Stuart.  Appreciate the commiserations and kind words both!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike mott on December 11, 2019, 12:31:39 AM
Hi Kim, Ah that sucks! I agree that it is often much faster to start over that trying to fix some problems. Plus I agree with all the comments about quality cutting tools. I have even seen a drill bit unwind  :facepalm:

Looking forward to the new parts.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on December 13, 2019, 07:53:19 PM
Hi Kim,  some very nice and sucessfull fabrication work is going on there.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 14, 2019, 06:08:46 AM
Thanks Mike and Achim! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 14, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
I have been caught like that  :(  and now only buy good (expensive) drill bits and reamers.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 14, 2019, 04:39:52 PM
Kim, I have had great results with the cobalt drill bits from these guys, all sizes available single, some in 6 or 12 packs. I used theirs to replace some of the worn out ones from my set.
https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=012-50
Good prices but still very good quality, much better than the silly-putty ones from the home stores!
Chris

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
Thanks Roger!  Good tools make a big difference to the enjoyment for sure.

Thanks for the link Chris.  Looks like an interesting place!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2019, 06:15:53 PM
I’ve had some time off around Christmas and have had more shop time than usual.  Because of this, I’ve been able to catch back up to where I was before I decided to re-do the horseshoe assembly.

I didn’t take many pictures here because we’ve been through all this before. But, I did want to talk about what I did differently this time around.  The quick summary would be that I was just more careful.  The reality has a lot more detail.  This time I knew what to be more careful about!

One of my issues was that I didn’t allow for the 0.040” difference in the radius for the top horseshoe member compared to the bottom.  So, this time, when bending the top, I wrapped a piece of the 0.040” sheet around the 1-1/4" mandrel it to make up for that difference. I didn't do that last time.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-1-DSC_6382.jpg)

And I made sure that the top and bottom members had the exact same shape, with only that 0.040” difference.  It might be hard to tell what’s going on in this picture, but the TOP horseshoe member (prior to making the horizontal bends) is sitting directly on top of the bottom.  You can see that 0.040” cutout all around the inside edge of the top member.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-2-DSC_6385.jpg)

The next thing I did differently was to leave some material to make a radiused flange on the verge board.  This helped make sure there were no gaps around that radius.  This was a big problem for me with the first version.  (Kozo’s plans show to cut the tab out of the radius section completely – I liked this method MUCH better).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-3-DSC_6390.jpg)

Finally, and the biggest difference this time around, was how I assembled all the elements.  The first time, I assumed the top and bottom horseshoe members defined the shape, and I made the vertical board fit them.  Then, after getting everything screwed together,   I filed off the excess from the vertical board to make it match.

The second time around I reversed that.  I made the vertical board nice and square and made it the EXACT correct height.  I made IT define the height and the basic shape. I then attached the horseshoe members to the vertical board, using the vertical board as a guide for keeping things square.  This process resulted in a much better-finished product.

Here I’m shaving the height of the vertical board to get it close to the correct height.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-4-DSC_6392.jpg)

With a final pass of the mill to clean things up and get it exact and square.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-5-DSC_6394.jpg)

And here it is, all screwed together and mounted in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/029b-RevisitingTheHorseshoe-6-DSC_6402.jpg)
Interestingly, you can see a little gap between the top member and the bottom member in the lower-left corner of this picture. This shows that the length of the upper member was about 1/16" too short based on all the numbers in Kozo's plan.  I was VERY careful to get the exact right lengths.  But those bends just put a bit of a monkey wrench in things and make the lengths somewhat difficult to predict.  Using the vertical board as the reference was the key to getting this assembled square and accurate.

The other thing I did differently is that I didn’t soft solder the horseshoe parts together – yet.  Kozo has you do that at this point.  But another problem I was running in to was that I didn’t have access to drill and tap holes for mounting the front boards.  I will wait until the whole tank is complete before I solder things together.

This brings me back to where I was about a month ago. But in much better shape I believe :)

Thanks for watching me struggle,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 29, 2019, 06:22:13 PM
Now, to continue on with the Front Plates!

Here’s where we left the front plates – I’d cut them and made notches to fit around the verge board.  And now I need to form the curve so I can cut them to size.  So, I’m just about to anneal the plates before bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-01-DSC_6405.jpg)

After bending, I cut them to length on the front. Then I kinda flattened them out again to emboss the rivets.  Kozo says to emboss the rivets before bending, but I couldn’t figure out how to get the right length without bending.  So I did it this way.

And here I’ve got it marked (on the back) for rivet locations.  It’s just the horizontal location.  I figured the distance from the edge would be set by the embossing jig.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-02-DSC_6407.jpg)

And here I am embossing the rivets all around the outside edge of the part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-03-DSC_6410.jpg)

Ah yes, one other thing – based on some excellent advice from Mike Mott, I made a new die with the rim of the die set to the size to set the spacing correctly.  This worked a treat! And even though I marked the locations of the rivets, I wouldn’t have had to.  This produced very regular spacing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-04-DSC_6415.jpg)

After embossing the rivets I re-bent the panels into place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-11-DSC_6413.JPG)

To attach the front panels to the tank base I needed to make the front corner members.  These are short lengths of 1/4" square brass.  They have to have a little notch cut out of them so they go around the copper sides.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-05-DSC_6418.jpg)

Then I drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole to mount them to the base.  This I a picture of a tinny little tap handle (only about 1.5” long) that I purchased recently from Little Machine Shop.  It is the greatest thing since sliced bread!  I just love it!  It gives you enough leverage to tap these little holes, but it gives you a LOT of control.  And it's so light I’m not nearly as worried about breaking the tap!  A very good investment, I’d highly recommend it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-06-DSC_6421.jpg)

Here’s the pair of front corner members:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-07-DSC_6425.jpg)

And now, after they have been screwed in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-08-DSC_6427.jpg)

Next, I need to cut the top edge of the front plates to length.  Here’s how I marked those for length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-09-DSC_6429.jpg)

Length marked on both sides:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030a-FrontPlatesContinued-10-DSC_6431.jpg)

That pretty much gets my build log up to date.  A bit more to go on the front plates, then it's on to the top plate, and we’ll have the basic form of the tank completed :)

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on December 29, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
Impressive as always Kim. Sorry about the redo, but you seem much happier with things now which is good!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 29, 2019, 07:13:10 PM
Those rivet patterns came out great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 29, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
Great work Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2019, 05:30:28 AM
Impressive as always Kim. Sorry about the redo, but you seem much happier with things now which is good!!

Bill
Thanks Bill!  I am much happier :).  There are still things that could be better, but it passed the 'good enough' point on my quality meter, so we're going forward!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2019, 05:31:05 AM
Thanks for following along Chris and CNR :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2020, 06:23:05 PM
To finish off the front plates, I need to silver solder some little tabs onto the top end of the plates.  This will help the joint with the top plate that is coming next.

So, here’s one of the front plates all setup to hard solder the tab in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-01-DSC_6436.jpg)

And after the soldering is complete.  This went well.  I’m getting much better at this.  Guess practice really does help!  I’m quite enjoying the silver soldering now.  It’s quite satisfying!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-02-DSC_6439.jpg)

With the fabrication completed, all we have left is to mount them to the tank. Kozo recommends #0-80 round head screws.  I marked 10 locations around the rim and drilled right through the faux rivet for these mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-03-DSC_6445.jpg)

Then marked the first holes on the supporting structure and drilled and tapped.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-04-DSC_6448.jpg)

Here’s a picture of one of the many front plate fittings needed to mark the spots for the screws.  I marked them one or two at a time.  Notice that the Verge Board has been removed and I’ve got a few scraps of 0.040” plate stuck in those holes to fill the gap.  If I’d soldered it all together already, I would not have been able to remove it and I don’t know HOW I would have been able to drill and tap those mounting holes!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-07-DSC_6456.jpg)

Drilling through the copper tank sides after marking:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-05-DSC_6451.jpg)

And tapping the receiving holes for the #0-80 screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-11-DSC_6462.jpg)

This process involved a lot of steps for each screw (marking, drilling, tapping, re-fitting, repeat). So a lot of assembly and dis-assembly.  Interestingly, these little #1 and #0 brass screws aren’t all that sturdy. You don’t have to work very hard to just twist their little heads right off!  Needless to say, I did that several times.  Usually, I could grab the exposed part of the screw and unscrew it with some vice-grips.  But sometimes there wasn’t enough of a nubbin exposed to get a hold of, so I had to drill it out. This picture commemorates one of those events. I’m drilling out the middle of the #0 screw with a #58 drill bit.  Then I used a cutting tap to remove the remainder of the screw.  Not a big deal, but it all takes time.  I’m learning to be a little more ginger with these teeny-weeny brass screws!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-06-DSC_6453.jpg)

Last, but not least, I marked, drilled, and tapped mounting holes for the front corner members.  This picture shows the left side installed, and the right side sitting next to it, waiting to be installed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-09-DSC_6466.jpg)

And here’s the front plates, fully installed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/030b-FrontPlatesContinued-10-DSC_6471.jpg)

Next up is the top plate, and it will start to look like a tender!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 01, 2020, 06:45:13 PM
Very nice Kim. Excellent job as well through the pictures and words of each step you take. Going to be a fine looking tender for sure!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 01, 2020, 06:53:44 PM
Lot of fiddly steps, but it came out great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2020, 05:23:36 AM
Thanks Bill and Chris!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Chapter 5.8– Top Plate

The Top Plate was cut from the larger brass 0.040” sheet using my Rigid reciprocal saw.  This works quite well, but it’s not overly accurate.  It cuts fast, but you have to leave a good margin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-01-DSC_6475.jpg)

I’ve fixed a couple of pieces of steel bar to the edge of the bench that I use to clamp larger thin sheet while filing – anything too big for my vise.  It’s not perfect, but it works OK.  I wish I had a way to clamp it in the middle, but I haven’t figured that out yet.
Anyway, using this, I cleaned up the edges, squared up 3 sides, and took it to the correct width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-02-DSC_6478.jpg)

I then lined it up and used a scribe to mark the shape of the cut out for the front end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-03-DSC_6481.jpg)

Like so (this is the bottom side that I scribed).  I then took that mark and transferred it out 0.080” – this is the aprox line that I’m aiming at for this cut-out.  (The 0.080” comes from the thickness of the vertical board and the verge board.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-04-DSC_6484.jpg)

I then proceeded to cut the shape out using the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-05-DSC_6487.jpg)

And then slowly filed it to shape, test fitting frequently between filings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-06-DSC_6491.jpg)

One thing to point out: despite all my carefulness, the back end of the Front Plates came out slightly different lengths.  One side sticks out a tad more than the other (see the red arrows).  I shaped the top plate to match this.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-07-DSC_6495a.jpg)

After getting the cutout to fit, I bent the top plate to shape.  I had to do this in order to know exactly how long it needed to be. As I bent it to shape, I also shortened the length till it fit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-08-DSC_6499.jpg)

This took a lot of twiddling and adjusting, but I’m pretty pleased with the fit at this point.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-09-DSC_6500.jpg)

Next, I need to make an access cutout in the top of the tender.  The Tender Manhole will eventually be fitted into this cutout.  There are also a few holes for mounting the Headlight Base. Here’s the layout for the cutout and the holes for the headlight base.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-10-DSC_6506.jpg)

Since the corners of the cutout are supposed to be 1/16” radius, I used a 1/8” drill in each corner.  I’ll saw out the opening between those holes.  I used the mill table to accurately locate each corner of the cutout, and to locate and drill the headlight mounting holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-11-DSC_6509.jpg)

And here’s our state of play at the moment:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031a-TopPlate-12-DSC_6511.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 03, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
Quote
Thanks for taking a look.

It is us who should be thanking you for all the work - we are just enjoying the Journey from a safe distance  :)
 :cheers:     :popcorn:

Oh and before I forget - very nice work Kim  :praise2:

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Thank you, Per!
I appreciate your comment and the moral support you and other people following my build.  I've learned so much from people commenting on better way's to do things or offering helpful hints on how they did it.

You and people on this forum have taught me everything I know about machining! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 03, 2020, 10:26:07 PM
Quote
Thanks for taking a look.
It is us who should be thanking you for all the work - we are just enjoying the Journey from a safe distance  :)
 :cheers:     :popcorn:

 :ThumbsUp: Indeed.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2020, 10:30:44 PM
Thank you Zee :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2020, 07:31:31 AM
Nice bit of plate work Kim  :)

I have always struggled with those reciprocating saws. I found they had a mind of their own  :paranoia: I see you used a timber clamp to hold the large plates vertically for filing - I use a long thick bit of steel angle clamped in the vice and then clamp the plate to the extended piece of angle to the side of the vice, it brings the work a little higher for finishing ;)

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 04, 2020, 05:52:32 PM
Thanks Jo,
Good idea on using some angle iron in the vise for holding the plate.  I'll have to see if I can find a couple of chunks of angle iron to use for that!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 04, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
Some great work on the plates Kim, something I've not needed to tackle on small scale  yet....it's good to see it all coming together. :popcorn: :popcorn:       Back in my classic car days I regularly used lengths of thick angle clamped together with deep throat clamps for forming awkward chassis sections, mostly out the side of a heavy vice as Jo mentioned.
Much of the time I'm just quietly following along and enjoying the ride.             Best Wishes            Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 05:21:03 AM
Thanks for the comments, Terry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 05, 2020, 07:21:21 AM
Hi Kim,
 Looking good! Been enjoying the journey.

You just want to be careful, all that gold & you will have Don come visit with his polishing gear........


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 02:54:43 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

Yeah, I've thought about that.  My plan to avoid that is to plaint it soon.  Cover up all that pretty shiny brass with a nice black powder coat! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2020, 03:00:27 PM
Moving on with the top plate, I used the scroll saw to cut out the square section for the manhole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-1-DSC_6513.jpg)

Then I cleaned up the edges on the mill.  I didn’t want to cut out the entire thing on the mill because this setup for holding the top plate wasn’t that secure – it caused some bowing in the middle of the top plate.  I figured it was OK for skimming a few thou off the edge, but that a more challenging cut could be potentially error-prone, so I did it on the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-2-DSC_6518.jpg)

Next up was embossing all the rivets.  And boy, were there a LOT of them!
I whipped up a little rounded guide to use for the inside corners here. Seemed to work pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-3-DSC_6522.jpg)

I had to get pretty creative with clamping the guide.  Since I’d bent the plate first, it caused some interesting interference with various elements of the mill.  But I worked around them all.  My backup was to flatten the plate out somewhat for embossing, then re-bend like I did with the front plates.  But I’m glad I didn’t have to do that!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-4-DSC_6524.jpg)

And here’s the completed top plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-5-DSC_6525.jpg)

In situ on the rest of the tank (still not attached though).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/031b-TopPlate-6-DSC_6530.jpg)

I’ve had some time off work over the holidays, but starting tomorrow, I’m back at it. So, things will be returning to their standard glacial pace now.  While it is a good thing that I’m employed, I will certainly miss being home and having the flexibility to work in the shop when I want to!

As always, thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 05, 2020, 04:28:20 PM
Looking great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 05, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
I love the embossed effect :ThumbsUp:          bet you are glad they are not real rivets :hellno:        Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 05, 2020, 05:08:10 PM
Terrific!

For milling thin stock like that, clamping it down with a block of wood or between two blocks keeps it from bending up - though it can make it harder to see where you are on the cut.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2020, 01:14:57 AM
Thanks CNR!

Yes, Terry, I thought about that too!  glad these are all just fake embossed rivets.  It would take forever to do all those rivets - and they are so small!

Thanks Chris. I'll have to keep that one in mind for working with thin stock like this :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 06, 2020, 01:18:54 AM
You have a supreme amount of patience. It will pay off - the finished article is going to look amazing. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2020, 01:43:34 AM
Thanks Stuart!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 12:42:01 AM
Chapter 5.9– Rear Corner Member

The Rear Corner Member connects the end of the top plate to the base.  It’s made from a piece of 5/16” square brass.  Kozo’s drawings are very good, and there are very few mistakes I’ve found on them.  But this happens to be one – the text says you should use 5/16” square stock, but the drawings indicate 1/4" square.  The drawing for the part is wrong.  It really should be 5/16” as the text says.  The 5/16" measurement works out correctly with all the rest of the dimensions, like hole placement and such, so I'm certain that's the correct one.  I just wanted to point this out in case it helps anyone in the future.  Kozo's drawings are astoundingly good, so don't let this change your opinion!

I cut the 5/16” bar to length and took notches out of each side, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-01-DSC_6531.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped 3-48 to attach the corner member to the base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-02-DSC_6534.jpg)

Here it is in place:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-02-DSC_6565.JPG)

Next, I selected the spots for all the #0 screws to attach the top plate and drilled a clearance hole through the embossed rivet at each location.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-03-DSC_6540.jpg)

Then began the tedious process of marking each hole, drilling it out and tapping.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-05-DSC_6543.jpg)

To mark this connection between the front plate and top plate, I needed to block up some support.  I couldn’t mark it because it moved too much otherwise!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-04-DSC_6547.jpg)

I marked the holes a few at a time, drilled them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-06-DSC_6550.jpg)

And tapped them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-07-DSC_6548.jpg)

And here’s a few beauty shots showing the nearly enclosed tank:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-08-DSC_6553.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-09-DSC_6556.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/032a-RearCornerMember-10-DSC_6559.jpg)

The next step will be a bunch of soldering to more permanently fasten all the pieces of the tank together.

Thanks for stopping by my shop on this rainy Saturday afternoon.  Hope you enjoyed your stay!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 12, 2020, 03:19:49 AM
I did enjoy my stay, Kim. It's been fun watching this project come together.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 12, 2020, 03:26:23 AM
Very  much enjoying the ride.

Nice set of pics!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 05:38:14 AM
Thanks Jim and Zee!  Glad you enjoyed it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Johnmcc69 on January 12, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Looks great Kim! I really enjoy seeing your fabrications come together.

 John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2020, 06:39:36 PM
Thanks John!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 12:58:48 AM
Chapter 5.10 – Soft Soldering and Filing the Bottom

My goal today yesterday was to finish up the tank assembly.  I need to soft solder together all the parts so that it is one water-tight unit.

I decided to take it in smaller pieces, if I can, rather than just try and solder the whole thing together.  Seems like it will be REALY hard to get back in some of the corners as a whole unit.  It will also be easier to give each section the attention that it deserves if I do it in smaller chunks.  (This is my theory anyway)

So, I start by soldering the corner members to the front plates.  Here it is all set up for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-1-DSC_6568.jpg)

Now, doing it one section at a time caused this problem though – I have to maintain the little openings for other plates to slide into.  The soft solder effectively filled the 0.040” gap at the edge of the corner members.  So I used a razor saw to clear out those openings.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-2-DSC_6575.jpg)

This is an attempt to show you one of the slots I’m talking about, after opening it up.
 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-3-DSC_6569.jpg)

Here are all three corner members solder to their respective parts – the left and right front plates and the rear of the top plate.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-4-DSC_6579.jpg)

Now comes my latest setback.  I was attempting to clean up the solder joint area on some of the Horseshoe Member pieces using a fine Scotch-Brite wheel and ‘thought’ I was being careful.  But this thing is a rather gangly piece with things sticking out all over the place. And, well, I must have touched it to the wrong side of the wheel and the part shot out of my hand, bounced around a few times and hit the floor.  None too gently I might add.  Needless to say, all my carefully shaped curves and angles were all a skew :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-5-DSC_6582.jpg)

And what’s worse, is that it cracked partway through at one place where there’s a hole close to a corner (too close – that wasn’t very good planning on my part).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-6-DSC_6583.jpg)

After scolded myself for using the stupid Scotch-Brite wheel when I KNEW I shouldn’t, I started on the recovery plan.  (I KNEW I shouldn’t have used that wheel for this very reason but it’s so easy, and I was being careful… but not careful enough – have I ever been able to be ‘careful enough’ that I don’t lose a piece while using that wheel?  Not very often! So, I deserved the scolding! - Don’t you hate it when your right, but you don’t listen to yourself?)

Anyway,  my recovery plan was to anneal the part again and carefully re-form it back into its intended shape.  If I could be careful enough not to break it completely, it should be plenty good once it is all soldered into place.

So, the next many hours were spent re-forming and re-fitting that piece into the rest of the assembly. And of course, to make sure it all fit properly, I had to re-assemble everything I’d taken apart.  But in the end, I got there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-7-DSC_6585.jpg)

After that fiasco, I think I’m now ready to get back to the soldering.  But first, I have to take it all back apart again so I can clean the areas to be soldered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033a-TankAssembly-8-DSC_6588.jpg)

This was about all I could handle for one day.  It will take more time than I had (more patience than I had right then, to be honest) to flux up and solder it all together.  This will be a multi-hour process.  Maybe tomorrow?  I’ve got Monday off for MKLJ day:)

We’ll see how it goes then.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2020, 01:21:25 AM
Ouch Kim!

I have been there more times than I like to think about. Amazing how fast that wheel can take your part, slam it against the floor, bounce it off the ceiling and send it to the corner in a wadded up heap. >:(

Nice recovery, hopefully the rest goes with out any problems.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 05:13:54 AM
Thanks for the commiseration Chris.
I'm not feeling quite as frustrated about it now.  But yesterday, I wasn't a very happy camper!  :Mad:
Yet again, re-learning a lesson I already knew...  :facepalm:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 20, 2020, 07:54:42 AM
I hate it when that happens  :toilet_claw:

As you proved just because something unintended happens does not mean we cannot get round it and no one will ever know :)

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Vixen on January 20, 2020, 12:48:26 PM
Hi Kim,

How did you get on today? Did you fix it?

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
Thanks Jo and Vixen.
I'm just about to head out to the shop.  My plan (yeah, right :)) is to finish soldering up the tank today.  I'll be sure and report back on how I do.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 20, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
Just catching back up Kim after a few days I missed. Sorry about the misshap, but excellent recovery. Things look great!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 20, 2020, 11:02:44 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread. Lot's of learning. And although mishaps are a real bummer, I appreciate your posting them and seeing the recovery.

The tank assembly is awesome. When I first read it, I thought, man, he's going to be holding his breath throughout the process. I would be.
I would have been so scared, after all that work, to muss it up at the end.

Good job!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 05:02:31 AM
Thank you for your support Bill and Zee!
As you can see, I need all the help I can get! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 05:18:25 AM
As promised earlier, here’s my update on today’s shop session. And (spoiler alert!) it didn’t come out too badly, I think.

So today, I cleaned up the parts around the solder joints again – being quite careful NOT to take any unnecessary risks this time around!

Then I assembled the parts with flux in the joints.  For the first solder session, I did the horseshoe assembly and the front and top plates.  This was about the minimum I could do.  I’d have liked to do the horseshoe assembly on its own but once I soldered down the verge board there would be no way to get to the hold-down screws for the front and top plates.  So I did them all at once.  Also, I assembled them all on the tank base to make sure everything was aligned properly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-1-DSC_6593.jpg)

With that part assembled, I removed the base plate and then took it over to the soldering station.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-2-DSC_6597.jpg)

And here’s after soldering the whole thing.  There were a lot of joints there and it took me some time to get them all done. And things got pretty hot and boiled off the flux so I added more.  You can see the charred remains here.  But all in all, it actually came out not too bad!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-3-DSC_6600.jpg)

After cleaning this section up, I reattached the soldered portion to the tank baseplate then fluxed the joints for the sides and screwed them in place.  Once everything was ready, I again removed the baseplate and went to solder things.  This is after soldering the sides in place.  Not quite as charred this time, but still, it’s a pretty good mess.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-4-DSC_6603.jpg)

Here are a few beauty shots, after cleaning things up.  The underside isn’t so pretty:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-5-DSC_6608.jpg)

But the outside isn’t so bad.  Still some discoloration and some more cleaning to do, but it's not too bad!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033b-TankAssembly-6-DSC_6611.jpg)

So I’m calling this a success!  Thank you all for your continued support and patience with me.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on January 21, 2020, 07:39:44 AM
What are you using to clean off the old flux Kim?

Jo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 21, 2020, 12:07:00 PM
Nice progress and recoveries Kim  :cheers:

I would not be too worried about the coloration as long as the tank is water tight - as I'm sure it will be painted later (or ?).

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 08:13:23 PM
What are you using to clean off the old flux Kim?

Jo

I usually soak in a pickle solution for a while.  Unfortunately, my pickle solution is several years old and has been used a lot. Probably need to change it out.  But worse than this, my pickle receptacle is too small for the tank to fit in.  It's an old large glass cooking pot - probably 5 quart or so?  I can't even submerge half of it.  So, left one side in for a minute, splashed it around a bit, then took it to the sink and used soap.  Probably not the best of solutions.  I should leave it soaking in the pickle longer I'm sure.

And get new pickle solution!

I don't like the really caustic stuff so I've been using Sparex No 2.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2020, 08:15:51 PM
Nice progress and recoveries Kim  :cheers:

I would not be too worried about the coloration as long as the tank is water tight - as I'm sure it will be painted later (or ?).

Per

I did a quick check an found a leak around the front part, so did a little more soldering to fix that.  At the moment, it seems somewhat water tight.  I'll have to check more carefully before I'm all done.

And yes, it will definitely be painted!  Just have to make sure and get the gunk off of it so the paint's sticking to the metal! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 21, 2020, 09:12:53 PM
Quote
And yes, it will definitely be painted!  Just have to make sure and get the gunk off of it so the paint's sticking to the metal! :)

Amen to that - but I'm sure that if you end up with a few spots that aren't removed in the pickle, you will use some very fine abrasive paper to get rid of that too - or similar solutions.
Just make sure whatever you use doesn't contain metal particles that can result in future oxidations under the paint ....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 21, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Your tank come out really nice Kim.

I wonder how an airbrush sand blaster would work for cleaning things up?

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 21, 2020, 09:31:50 PM
Your tank come out really nice Kim.

I wonder how an airbrush sand blaster would work for cleaning things up?

Jim
Having used one I could say - they spray a very small pattern, would take a long time to do an area that big. Also would give the metal some texture that you may not want.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 22, 2020, 05:01:54 AM
I've got more filing to do also, so some abrasive work will come with that.

Yes, more cleanup is in my future, that's for sure!    ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: b.lindsey on January 22, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
Fantastic result Kim!!  Must feel nice once done with this part and getting it watertight!!

Bill
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 22, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Thanks Bill!
I've fixed a few obvious leaks, but not sure I can claim fully 'water tight' quite yet, but I'll get there!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 02:25:53 AM
To finish off the tank assembly, I needed to file off the exposed screw heads (these were the screws that held it all together while soldering:
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033c-TankAssembly-01-DSC_6614.jpg)

Then I filed the bottom of the tank flat, making everything the same level:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/033c-TankAssembly-02-DSC_6617.jpg)

I also verified that it did not seem to leak any water.  This was a little sketchy since I had to balance water in different sections of the tank.  It won’t truly be watertight till it gets attached to the base.  But I tried to verify that all the solder connections did not leak. And it passed my cursory test.  I actually did this first, so that I could do some re-soldering if needed.  But it didn’t seem to be.  At least not at this point :)

And with that, the tank is basically done.  I did set it in my pickling tank to try and get rid of more of the yuck.  It helped, but I really think I need new pickling solution.  So, I’ve got some Sparex on order.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 02:35:08 AM
Chapter 5.11– Headlight Baseplate and Headlight Base

Next, I started on the Headlight base.  I guess it's more of a ‘tail light’ since its on the back of the tender. But that’s what Kozo calls it.  I won’t be making the light for it yet – that will come later when I’m making the engine.  He has you make two identical headlights at the same time, one for the engine, and one for the tender, which makes a lot of sense :).  So for now, we’re just making a base for it to sit on.

The base has five pieces.  Four of them make the Headlight Base, and one is the Headlight Baseplate.  The base pieces are cut from 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 bar.  The baseplate is cut from a piece of 1/16” 4130a steel.  Here are the rough-cut parts:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-01-DSC_6618.jpg)

I took the four base parts, cleaned up the ends and milled them to length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-02-DSC_6621.jpg)

Then I drilled some holes in the end for some screws to hold things while I silver solder the base together.  These holes are 1-72 tapping size (#52 I believe).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-03-DSC_6623.jpg)

To drill the matching holes in the cross pieces, I used the holes I just drilled as a template.  To hold the template in place, I used several small clamps and some extra bits of scrap.  Here’s my method for doing this; The pieces labeled A and B are the ones we’re attaching.  A has the holes drilled already. We’re going to transfer those hole locations to B.  C is an extra piece I’m using to keep B lined up with the end of A.  One clamp holds B and C together, and the other holds A and C together.  This way A and B are lined up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-04-DSC_6627a.jpg)

In this shot, I’ve added a couple more scrap pieces and clamped on the ends to hold A and B in sideways alignment (you can’t see part B here because it's buried under the other pieces).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-05-DSC_6629a.jpg)

I held this setup by hand and rested the bottom of piece B on the top of the vice, then transferred the holes into piece B.  It worked pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-06-DSC_6625.jpg)

After transferring, I enlarged the holes in the A pieces to #1 clearance size then tapped the transferred holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-07-DSC_6633.jpg)

Then I test assembled the box that will become the headlight base.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/034a-HeadlightBase-08-DSC_6637.jpg)

Next, I’ll silver solder it together.  But that will be for next shop time.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 26, 2020, 03:03:01 AM
This is quite the journey you're on Kim. I'm enjoying following along.  :popcorn:  :wine1:

 :cheers: Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2020, 05:40:26 AM
Thanks Jim!
I'm enjoying it a lot too!

Also enjoying watching you with your PMR#5 build!  You're doing a bang-up job there!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 02:07:13 AM
Continuing on with the headlight base…

I cleaned the parts and fluxed them up.  Oh yeah – and added a few little punch marks inside the joints to allow clearance for the silver solder to flow (Kozo’s recommendation).  Ready to solder:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_6638.JPG)

After the soldering.  I actually did each corner in a row, all in one heating session.  I did one corner, turned it, added a bit of solder (as in this picture) and then did that corner, repeat.  I was able to do all four corners without getting a completely black crustified part!  I was pleased with that.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_6641.JPG)

After some pickling and a wash-up, I set it in the mill, supported on the inside by a parallel, and milled down the screws that were holding things together for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_6642.JPG)

Next, I took the plate, squared it up in the mill, and took it to size.  It's hard to see in that picture, but it is in the vice, sandwiched between two 1/2" parallels.  The parallels helped keep it from chattering since it provided good support close to the edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_6645.JPG)

Here are the two main assemblies for the headlight base.  Still some work to go.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_6647.JPG)

Here I’ve got the base in the mill vice and I’m using a few clamps to hold the plate in the correct position above the base to spot and drill through with a hole for tapping 1-72.  This way I know that the holes in the plate will line up with the tapped holes in the base!  The two holes in the middle are to mount the headlight itself (later).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_6649.JPG)

Then with just the plate, I opened up the holes to a 1-72 clearance and then countersunk them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_6653.JPG)

Then I tapped the four holes in the base using my favorite little tap handle.   Have I mentioned how much I love that little thing?  Its probably one of my most used purchases I made last year!  It works so well for these little taps.  I really can’t recommend it highly enough!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_6654.JPG)

And here’s where I finished up today.   I still need to cut the angle on the base so that the headlight plate will be parallel with the ground when mounted on the back of the tender.  But that will be my next task.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/9-DSC_6656.JPG)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 02, 2020, 04:05:43 AM
Good progress today Kim.  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 06:01:14 AM
Thanks Jim!
Slow progress, but good progress! :)
That's the only way I can get it done!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 02, 2020, 12:51:27 PM
Being lazy I likely would have made the "box" from a single piece of bar.   Soldering went well.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2020, 05:46:33 PM
Good point, that would have been less work.  But more expensive in materials, unless you had a chunk of steel that large already.  It would also make the tender heavier.  Probably no big deal though.

Thanks Kvom,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 01:46:15 AM
Next on the headlight base is to carve the angle on the bottom so that it matches the top of the tender tank.

The angle I calculated based on the plans is just over 16 degrees.   But I know that my sides are a tad different and likely to be off a tad here or there :)  So, I measured the actual angle on my tank and use that rather than the calculated angle.  Here’s what I measured:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_6659.JPG)

Interesting that it’s exactly 15o.  But that makes it easier because I have a 15o angle block.  So, I used that to help set up the base in the mill vise.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_6661.JPG)

And used a 1/2" mill to carve it down.  The brass spots on the left are the brass solder screws.  Unfortunately, on the right edge, the remaining little nubbins of brass screw pulled out. :( I’ll fix those holes later with some JB-Weld.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_6667.JPG)

After cleaning up the edges, I marked out and drilled the four mounting screw holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_6670.JPG)

Then tapped them 2-56.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_6672.JPG)

Here’s the finished headlight base with the plate screwed on the top.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_6674.JPG)

And here we are in situ on the back of the tender tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/7-DSC_6677.JPG)

The last step for the day was to mix up a dab of JB-Weld and plug up those unsightly holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/8-DSC_6680.JPG)

Now we’ll let the JB-Weld set and then clean up around them.

Not a ton of progress, but at least I got some time out in the shop today!  And some time is better than no time!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2020, 01:53:33 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 09, 2020, 01:54:21 AM
And some time is better than no time!

 :ThumbsUp:

I really enjoy your thread.

My dream is to build a Kozo loco and I'm learning a lot here.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 02:05:15 AM
Thanks, Chris and Carl,
Appreciate your stopping by on this rainy Saturday!  (of course, this time of year, most Saturdays are rainy in the NW :)).
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2020, 02:14:41 AM
Thanks, Chris and Carl,
Appreciate your stopping by on this rainy Saturday!  (of course, this time of year, most Saturdays are rainy in the NW :) ).
Kim
A snowy Saturday over here!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 09, 2020, 03:27:05 AM
That came out really nice Kim.   :ThumbsUp:

 But.............geeeez...............did you have to slip in that picture of your SPI Mini Protractor? I mean ..........that ranks right up there with those pictures that some people slip in of their Starrett 'Mini Mike"!   :embarassed:

So anyway...........where can I buy one?  :thinking:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on February 09, 2020, 04:47:51 AM
Gezzz Jim you mean you DON'T have one??

Digital angle gauge should find …..


like here   http://www.wixey.com/anglegauge/

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2020, 06:14:01 AM
Hey Jim,
Yeah, that's a handy little gadget to have for sure.  I think I picked mine up on sale at MSC.  I checked there now and they want' $104 for it.  I'm pretty sure I didn't pay that!  There's one on eBay for $50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPI-Magnetic-Base-Digital-Protractor-1-360-and-4-90-Measuring-Range/114097765749?hash=item1a90c1bd75:g:dRgAAOSwwgVeOIGN (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPI-Magnetic-Base-Digital-Protractor-1-360-and-4-90-Measuring-Range/114097765749?hash=item1a90c1bd75:g:dRgAAOSwwgVeOIGN) which is getting closer.  I'm pretty sure I paid around $30 for it, but I could be wrong.  It was several years ago, so the price doesn't bother me now :)

The ones that Kerrin points to are probably just as good.

The SPI digital protractor works quite well and has been accurate enough for any use I've had for it.  The display shows two digits of accuracy past the decimal point, but the hundredths is always zero.  And its pretty clear that the tenths digit is somewhat imaginary too.  It gives you readouts to the tenth but the documentation says its only accurate to +/-0.3o.  So I'm sure there are more accurate indicators out there. But this one is nice - it has a magnetic base and has done the jobs I need it to do.

Another fun tool to add to your list!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 02:04:36 AM
Chapter 5.12 – Coal Stopper

Today I worked on the Coal Stopper.  This is a gizmo that goes in front of the coal bin (I’ve been calling it the horseshoe) to keep the coal from rolling out.  Interestingly to me, it doesn’t seem like there’s much room for coal on this tender, but I guess that’s because it’s a switcher and generally only putters about in the yard. So, I guess it doesn’t need a lot of coal.

But, before I start on the Coal Stopper, I wanted to show the Headlight Base.  It's upside-down here, but that’s so you can see the two little spots along the front top edge that were filled with JB-Weld.  It looks pretty good. And once it’s painted, nobody will be any the wiser!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-01-DSC_6681.jpg)

OK, now we start on the Coal stopper.  I cut the required pieces out of 4130 Sheet Steel (1/16” and 0.040”) then squared them up and took them to size in the mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-02-DSC_6686.jpg)

Here’s all three pieces. The larger one is the stop plate and the two thin pieces are for the brackets. I’ve left them long and will cut to size after bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-03-DSC_6688.jpg)

I drilled holes in the stop plate for some solder holding screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-04-DSC_6690.jpg)

Then bent the brackets (still not cut to length).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-05-DSC_6692.jpg)

Next, I rounded the top corners off the stop plate.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-06-DSC_6694.jpg)

Here are the three pieces all ready to be soldered together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-07-DSC_6695.jpg)

Well, I forgot to take any soldering pictures, but here’s what it looks like after silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-08-DSC_6698.jpg)

And its high time for some family shots showing the progress.  So here are a few shots of everything completed so far:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-09-DSC_6703.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-10-DSC_6706.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/035a-CoalStopper-11-DSC_6709.jpg)

This was pretty exciting for me!  It’s the first time I’ve had all the pieces together for several months, and it looks pretty good!  It's starting to look like something :)

Thanks for coming on by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 16, 2020, 02:13:40 AM
Great looking family shot, following along!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on February 16, 2020, 02:40:58 AM
That IS a nice family shot Kim. Really gives a feel for what the Tender is going to look like. Quite the project I must say!  :ThumbsUp:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 05:20:38 AM
Thanks Chris and Jim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on February 16, 2020, 07:45:21 AM
Hello Kim,

Beautiful workmanship on these parts and incredible amount of work involved.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on February 16, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
Hi Kim,
some good locking success there at the bench.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on February 16, 2020, 10:29:51 AM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 16, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 16, 2020, 12:44:07 PM
Beautiful job!  :ThumbsUp:

I suspect you felt some giddiness when you took those photos. Really great job.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2020, 05:41:24 PM
Thanks everyone!  :cheers:
Yes, Zee, I was (and am) quite pleased!  Even had to bring it in to show my wife! She's very tolerant of my show-and-tell sessions  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2020, 01:06:39 AM
Chapter 5.14 – Dummy Side Plates

The last parts for the Tender Tank (Chapter 5) are the Dummy Side Plates.  These are made from 0.040” brass sheet.  But before I went cutting any brass, I wanted to make a cardboard template so that I could adjust the size and shape as needed to fit my tender.

Since I didn’t have a piece of cardboard large enough, I taped together several smaller pieces. These were just the backs of pads of paper or something – nothing too fancy.  Then I marked out the basic shape, cut it out, and trimmed it up to fit the way I wanted it to.

Here’s my template:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-01-DSC_6713.jpg)

And here it is placed on the side of the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-02-DSC_6712.jpg)

Then I laid them out two of them on the brass sheet.  Using the template made it easier to optimize the brass stock, which is important with how expensive that stuff is!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-03-DSC_6715.jpg)

It was too big to cut on my HF 4x6 band saw so I used the reciprocal saw.  It works well and cuts fairly fast but you have to leave a healthy margin because it's not overly accurate (to say the least).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-04-DSC_6717.jpg)

I was able to take that to the bandsaw and cut the two pieces apart.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-05-DSC_6720.jpg)

Then I used double-sided sticky tape to stick the two pieces together for the final shaping.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-06-DSC_6724.jpg)

And I shaped it using files, holding between a couple of pieces of flat steel screwed to the side of my bench.  Not the best vice, but it works for these long pieces!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-07-DSC_6726.jpg)

After I had it square and to the basic shape, I rounded the corners:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-08-DSC_6729.jpg)

And then carefully separated the two pieces.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-09-DSC_6731.jpg)

This gives you an idea of how the were taped together.  The spots on the left plate are some corrosion on the brass plate, not tape residue or anything.  I cleaned these up after I peeled the tape up.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-10-DSC_6734.jpg)

Then I set about making all the rivets around the outside edge of the side panels.  For the spacing of these rivets, I again relied on the size of the rim of the die.  It worked quite well to keep things evenly spaced.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-11-DSC_6737.jpg)

There are two rows of inner rivets. These are supposed to be done with double the spacing of the other rivets, so I just marked the spots where I wanted to emboss a rivet for these rows.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-12-DSC_6740.jpg)

And here are the completed Dummy Side Plates.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036a-DummySidePlates-13-DSC_6746.jpg)

Next time I’ll attach those to the tank and we’ll be on to the next chapter – The Tender Manhole!

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on February 23, 2020, 01:50:20 AM
Great job. And as usual, excellent documentation.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 23, 2020, 05:06:17 PM
Lots of really good progress Kim!
The side panels also turned out very nice.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2020, 01:23:32 AM
Thanks Zee and Dave! :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on February 24, 2020, 05:04:47 PM
Looking good. Lovely work

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on March 03, 2020, 04:20:32 PM
 :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Still following

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 01:08:02 AM
Thank you for the comments, Sam and Rich!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 01:10:20 AM
I’ve been out of town for a while, thus, no update last week.  But today I got a little shop time and finished up the Dummy Side Plates.

First, I drilled out a few of the embossed rivets in the side plates to make room for #0-80 mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-1-DSC_6751.jpg)

After carefully positioning the plate, I marked and drilled a hole to receive the mounting screw, then tapped it 0-80 (as shown in the picture).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-2-DSC_6753.jpg)

Did that that for all of the screw hole in the dummy plates then took some beauty shots:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-3-DSC_6754.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/036b-DummySidePlates-4-DSC_6758.jpg)

And this, my friends, completes Chapter 5, "Tank", in Kozo’s book.  Next up will be the Manhole.

See you for the next exciting installment!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 08, 2020, 02:02:18 AM
Very nice!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 08, 2020, 03:52:15 AM
... then took some beauty shots: ...

And well worth it.  :ThumbsUp:

I'm anxious for the next 'exciting installment'.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2020, 05:29:52 AM
Thanks Chris and Zee!
Yes, the next installment will be positively riveting, I'm sure!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Ye-Ole Steam Dude on March 08, 2020, 12:38:18 PM
Hello Kim,

That is a work of art, wonderful craftsmanship on your part  :praise2:

Have a great day,
Thomas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 08, 2020, 02:42:32 PM
Outstanding work Kim! :ThumbsUp: You've really gotten the hang of this type of metal work.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
Thank you Thomas and Jim!
Things have gotten quite hectic at work (and home) so I haven't had my usual time to check in on the forum!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2020, 03:34:31 PM
Chapter 6.1 – Mounting Plate, Manhole Plate, and Lug

Chapter 6 covers the Tender Manhole.  This is the assembly that will fit in the big square hole on the top of the tender tank.  When complete, you will be able to open the manhole cover to fill the tender with water or to access the hand pump to pump water into the boiler.  The large rectangle plate that holds the manhole cover is also removable to provide easy access to the inside of the tank.

The first part is the Mounting Plate.  It was cut from 0.040” brass sheet.  And since the first several parts are all from the same material I cut those at the same time.  In this picture, clockwise from the top left is the Mounting Plate (1), the manhole plate (2), the manhole flange (4), and the manhole itself (4) (the last two pieces are part of a single assembly, which is why they both have the same number).  The piece of brass in the lower right will become the mounting lug (3) for the manhole plate (just a scrap from the bin).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-01-DSC_6761.jpg)

The bandsaw leaves rough and not-very-straight edges.  So the first thing I did was to even out the top and bottom edges then mill it to width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-02-DSC_6763.jpg)

Then holding the plate sideways, I milled the other dimension square, and to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-03-DSC_6764.jpg)

Then I marked up the part showing where all the holes go and the large cutout in the middle.  It’s a little hard to see the scribe lines with all the scratches in the blue, but trust me, they are there!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-04-DSC_6768.jpg)

Using the DRO I drilled all the holes to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-05-DSC_6772.jpg)

Then I poked a hole in the part to remove and used the scroll saw to cut the large opening.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-06-DSC_6775.jpg)

Now I’ve got two pieces! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-07-DSC_6778.jpg)

Cleaned up the inside edge using files.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-08-DSC_6782.jpg)

And here’s the completed part!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-09-DSC_6785.jpg)

I used several clamps to hold the mounting plate in place, then drilled a couple of holes for mounting screws.  You can’t really see it in the picture, but the tank is being supported by a piece of wood clamped in the mill vice.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-10-DSC_6789.jpg)

Then I tapped the few holes I drilled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-11-DSC_6791.jpg)

And attached the mounting plate on the OUTSIDE of the tank. This is not where it will be in the end, it will be attached to the inside.  But this allowed me to drill the rest of the holes for the mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-12-DSC_6792.jpg)

And after tapping the remaining holes, we have attached the mounting plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-13-DSC_6797.jpg)

And here it is from the top:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-14-DSC_6800.jpg)

The next step was to file down the mounting screws – they are quite short, but still stick out the top of the tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-17-DSC_6805.jpg)

So, I filed them down.  I used some tape to help keep me from scratching up the rest of the tank in the process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-18-DSC_6806.jpg)

And here it is, after being filed down.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-19-DSC_6809.jpg)

The next step will be the manhole plate that fits in on top of the mounting plate.  I started this by milling it square and to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-15-DSC_6801.jpg)

You can see that it fits in the hole! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/037a-MountingPlate-16-DSC_6802.jpg)

That’s all for today, thanks for stopping by to take a look.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 16, 2020, 08:49:20 PM
Nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

The last many pictures of the Tender always has me thinking that you are very close to finish it and start on the Loco ..... But you keep on making more parts for the Tender  :thinking:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 16, 2020, 09:38:44 PM
The last many pictures of the Tender always has me thinking that you are very close to finish it and start on the Loco ..... But you keep on making more parts for the Tender  :thinking:

Ha. My thought too.

This is going to be a reference for others wanting to build this.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2020, 08:01:35 PM
Thanks Per and Zee!
Yes, while the tank itself is close to completion, there are a lot of things left before the full tender is done.  In addition to completing the manhole, there's the hand pump, some pipe work, and several 'decorative' items like stairs and hand rails and such. But it is starting to look recognizable! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on March 18, 2020, 08:26:30 PM
Lovely work Kim,       Regards           Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2020, 10:13:59 PM
Thank you Terry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
The next part on our list is the Manhole Plate.  This is the removable plate that has the manhole access to the tank.  It fits onto the Mounting plate that we just completed.

I squared up the blank and cut it to size, then marked and drilled all the holes.  Kozo recommends waiting to drill the manhole mounting holes till after you complete the manhole itself, but I went ahead and did it now. For things like this, I’ve found if I use the DRO to guarantee the same spacing on the mounting holes in the two parts that things work out quite well. And it saves having to line the parts up, punch the location of the hole, then use my eyeball to line up drilling a hole on that punch mark.  I find the DRO gives me a much higher success rate than punch and eyeball route (go figure :)).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-1-DSC_6812.jpg)

Then I cut the opening for the manhole using the scroll saw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-2-DSC_6813.jpg)

Tapped the holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-3-DSC_6817.jpg)

I didn’t get a shot of punching the faux rivets, but I did that next.  Then rounded the corners just a tad with a file (1/16” radius), and screwed it in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/038a-ManHolePlate-4-DSC_6825.jpg)

Not bad looking!  And the rivets even line up pretty well!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 12:50:49 AM
Chapter 6.2 – Manhole

The manhole itself is made out of the same 0.040” sheet brass.  If you recall, I cut the piece for this a while back.  Before bending it, I squared up the edges and cut it to the exact length I’d calculated that was required to get the desired diameter. (I used the diameter at the center of the wall.  Not sure if that was the right place or if I should have used the inside diameter.  Regardless, it was close enough that it worked!)

Then I broke out my new slip rolls that I got for Christmas (thank you Santa) and put them to their first use:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-01-DSC_6826.jpg)

After annealing the brass and running it through the rollers again, it came out very nice and round!  Just right! :)  You can see the little attacher piece that holds the cylinder together and aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-02-DSC_6830.jpg)

Next, I needed to make the manhole flange.  This was also cut at the same time.  I took that piece and laid out the location for the manhole.  I made the inner circle just a little small for the outer diameter of the manhole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-03-DSC_6832.jpg)

After cutting out the circle with the scroll saw, I used a file to carefully and slowly open up the circle till the manhole fit. The thing to remember here is that the manhole is straight up and down, but the flange will be at about a 15o angle to match the top of the tank.  That means the hole for the manhole will be more of an ellipse. Not a big one, but just a tad! So I did more file work to open up the hole and get an angle on the edges.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-04-DSC_6835.jpg)

And here’s out it fits!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-05-DSC_6838.jpg)

Then I added a couple of brass screws – one on the top side (underneath the flange plate) and one at the bottom (above the flange plate) to help hold it in place during soldering.  (Not my idea, this was Kozo’s, and it was a brilliant idea I can tell you!)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-06-DSC_6841.jpg)

Here’s the flange and manhole all prepped and fluxed for silver soldering! (Note that I also knocked the corners off the flange to make the flange easier to round up later).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-07-DSC_6844.jpg)

And here’s after the soldering job.  Not too bad!  I really like how this part came out!  Silver soldering isn’t quite as scary to me as it used to be. I’d even say it was almost enjoyable!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-08-DSC_6845.jpg)

Here’s the post-pickle shot.  (I just wanted to admire my silver soldering job again  :embarassed:)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-09-DSC_6848.jpg)

Next, I mounted it in the Taig 4 jaw and centered it as good as I could, to make the flange round.  With the flange being at an angle, it made for a really bizarre interrupted cut.  The first time I centered it up in the chuck, I didn’t tighten the jaws too tight - I didn't want the brass deforming out of round.  This was a mistake.  As soon as the tool contacted the metal it just popped right off the jaws and went bouncing around in a rather frightening way!  Luckily, the damage was minimal (none to myself or the machine, and one divot in the flange where it hit the tool and a few smaller marks in other areas.  I was able to gently pound out the flange ding, and everything else is fine.  So for my second attempt, I tightened things up a quite a bit tighter and was WAY more careful to sneak up on the cut. I ended up deforming the bottom of the manhole a bit with how tight I got it, but in the end, it won’t matter because that part is being removed anyway.  And all the important parts stayed round!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-10-DSC_6851.jpg)

And here we are, the manhole with a round flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039a-Manhole-11-DSC_6854.jpg)

That’s as far as I got this weekend.
Thanks for stopping by to take a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on March 24, 2020, 02:24:00 AM
Excellent Kim!  :popcorn:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 24, 2020, 02:54:28 AM
Nice write-up!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Thanks Jim and Zee! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 25, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
I'm still following along and enjoying  :praise2: There's an amazing amount of detail in this build  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on March 28, 2020, 06:29:45 PM
Excellent.Its looking good
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:21:27 PM
Thanks for stopping by and taking a look, Sam!
Appreciate it :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:24:41 PM
Continuing with the Manhole, I filed down the lug that I’d used to hold the cylinder together for soldering. This will be used to mount the hinge for the manhole cover eventually.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-1-DSC_6856.jpg)

Then I used a jewel’s saw to remove the bottom half of the manhole (the part NOT needed :) – and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-2-DSC_6861.jpg)

And now its in two pieces.  The part on the right is the part I care about.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-3-DSC_6863.jpg)

After filing the bottom flat, I held it lightly in the vice, to drill the mounting holes.  I started with 1/16” end mill since it was on a slope, then switched to a #52 to make the holes the right size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-4-DSC_6866.jpg)

Now, mounting the manhole on the manhole plate, you can see the ragged edge along the inside of the manhole.  This will now be filed flush.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-5-DSC_6867.jpg)

Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/039b-Manhole-6-DSC_6871.jpg)

And with that, the manhole assembly is complete!

Or is it!?  At this point, I realized I never made the lug for the manhole plate. So I’ve got one more piece to make before this assembly is complete.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2020, 11:26:36 PM
So NOW, I’ll make the Lug for the manhole plate.  This lug will attach to the bottom of the plate and hold it in place so the bottom doesn’t flap about.

The lug is made from the same 0.040” sheet brass.  I used a scrap piece and made it the appropriate width (15/32”).  Then drilled the mounting holes:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-1-DSC_6873.jpg)

After that, I cut off the piece and filed 15o slopes on each of the front corners.  With that, the lug was complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-2-DSC_6876.jpg)

All that’s left is to mount it to the Manhole Plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-3-DSC_6878.jpg)

Then put it all together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/040a-ManholePlateLug-4-DSC_6882.jpg)

And NOW the manhole assembly is complete! :)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 28, 2020, 11:29:26 PM
Looks great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 29, 2020, 03:13:14 AM
and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).

Sigh. Just what I needed. A reminder. I trimmed two parts today only to discover I had read the dimension between holes rather than the outer dimension.
I don't think double-checking works for me. I'm not sure triple-checking is enough.

Great thread. As I said before, this will be a reference for other builders.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2020, 05:33:56 AM
and yes, I double-checked before sawing!).
Sigh. Just what I needed. A reminder. I trimmed two parts today only to discover I had read the dimension between holes rather than the outer dimension.
I don't think double-checking works for me. I'm not sure triple-checking is enough.
Yes, I remembered to check THIS time - you know how many times I've done it backwards because I didn't remember to check?  Well, I don't.  Because it's such an embarrassingly large number that not only do I NOT want to remember, my subconscious actively works to keep me from remembering so that I won't get overly discouraged.  But if you want to know, read back through my builds and count the number of times.  Then multiply by 3.  Because sometimes I don't even mention it because its so embarrassing!

For example, just today, when I was drilling holes in the manhole flange, I carefully dialed everything in, then drilled the holes at the EXACT right spot.  But you know what?  its at a 15 degree angle!  And when I drilled them in the manhole plate, it was flat.  That made all the holes off by about 0.022" (Yes, I did the trig to figure it out).  So I went and widened the holes so they'd fit (using a 1/16" mill).  And guess what?  I made them farther apart - but they should have been 22 thou closer together!  So I did it one more time.  By this time, my tidy, carefully measured mounting holes were more like slots.  But it works.  And the screw heads MOSTLY cover up the oversized holes.  You can still see it if you look.  But I didn't point it out because I'd made such a point of saying (i my previous post) that as long as I use the DRO, my holes line up.  Which they would, if the operator didn't screw up!  (stupid operator).

Anyway, long story to prove my point.  So don't get too down on yourself, Zee.  There are others of us out here that sometimes remember to check, and double check. But then often forget to double check. And sometimes it accidentally works out OK. But most of the time, you find a way to work around it, or you start over.  At least, that's what I find.  I just take it as part of doing the work. I keep hoping I'll screw up less as I get more experience.  But I think its that I'm picking up more ways to 'make it work' when I screw up.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2020, 05:35:11 AM
Thank you Dave!   :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
Chapter 6.3 – Manhole Cover

Yesterday’s shop time (brought to you by the Covid19 sequester) was spent making the Manhole Cover.

But first, I needed to even up and level the top of the manhole.  I want the top of the manhole to be parallel to the base of the tank car.  So I clamped the whole tank onto the mill and shaved a few thou off the top of the manhole.  The only trouble here was that while things were clamped well, the manhole itself is kind of suspended out in the middle of the tank, only supported by the sheet brass.  This made it chatter quite a bit.  And in chattering, it loosened the screws holding the manhole plate in place allowing it to raise up during one of the milling passes. After discovering this, I tightened things up again and did another pass to even things out again.  Other than being a few thou shorter than spec’d, nobody will be any the wiser.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-1-DSC_6885.jpg)

Now for the manhole cover.   This was cut from 1/16” brass sheet.  It started as a square with the corners cut off (no pic).  I then used locktite to attach it to the end of a piece of 1” steel.  After the Locktite had set, I put it in the lathe and turned it to the specified diameter.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-2-DSC_6888.jpg)

To help make sure Locktite didn’t let go while turning, I used the tail stock to hold a steel plug against the part.  You can see the steel plug in the above picture.  Below, you can see it removed and see the Manhole Cover turned to size.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-3-DSC_6890.jpg)

Leaving the part glued to the Mandrel, I transferred it into the square collet block and held that in the vice in the mill.  Here I cut a short flat on one side of the cover:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-4-DSC_6891.jpg)

Then drilled holes for the hinge and the handle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-5-DSC_6895.jpg)

I bent a length of 0.080” brass wire to shape for the handle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-6-DSC_6898.jpg)

Kozo says you can press fit or use soft solder.  But I wanted to use silver solder to attach the handle.  So I did.  Here’s the pre-solder shot:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-7-DSC_6899.jpg)

And after soldering:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-8-DSC_6904.jpg)

Then with some clean-up, the Manhole Cover is complete.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/041a-ManholeCover-9-DSC_6906.jpg)

The hinge will be next up.

Thank you for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 30, 2020, 05:33:01 PM
Nice! Your shop elves will appreciate having a new cave to hide in...


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2020, 06:17:57 PM
Yeah, and this cave has a door!  Pretty up-town, don't you think?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2020, 01:54:43 AM
Chapter 6.4 – Hinges and Pin

This weekend's project was the hinge for the manhole cover.  The part was 5/32” thick, so I originally planned to use 3/16” brass.  However, I could find very limited supplies of 3/16” brass and I didn’t really need much of it anyway.  So, I opted to just use 1/4" bar stock.  I happened to use 1/4" x 3/4" because I had some.

So the first step was to whittle it down to size (5/32” thick) then to make it the right shape for the hinge pieces.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-01-DSC_6912.jpg)

Then I sliced off an 11/16” chunk, and a 1/2" chunk on the band saw (leaving a little extra to even up the ends).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-02-DSC_6915.jpg)

I squared up both ends and made them each the correct length.  Then I set it up vertically in the mill, found the center, and carefully drilled a center hole in the big end of each piece.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-03-DSC_6922.jpg)

On the larger part, I milled out a 1/2" gap for the other half of the hinge (I made it a few thou over 0.5” so the other part would move easily.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-04-DSC_6927.jpg)

Next, I rounded up the ends of the hinge pieces like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-05-DSC_6928.jpg)

And finally, drilled and countersunk holes to mount it to the lid.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-06-DSC_6931.jpg)

After mounting it, I cut a short length of 0.080” Brass wire (well, it is 12 GA which the charts show as 0.081”, but it was pretty close!) and coerced it in place to hold the two hinge pieces together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-07-DSC_6933.jpg)

This step was a little tricky because of the angles, but I carefully clamped the cover+hinge assembly to the spot where it needs to go, then equally carefully drilled holes to tap.  This is the second hole.  After I did the first one I put in a temporary screw in the first hole to help hold it in place – it wasn’t quite as fragile after I got that first screw in.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-08-DSC_6938.jpg)

With the mounting holes done, the last thing I needed to do was knock off the extra length of hinge pin sticking out either side of the hinge.   I did this by removing the hinge and filing the hinge pin down flush (very carefully!)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-09-DSC_6940.jpg)

The completed hinge!  And yes, it does bend back and forth, just like its supposed to :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-10-DSC_6946.jpg)

Here’s the beauty shot of the completed manhole with all parts in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-11-DSC_6950.jpg)

And open so someone can get inside a do some repair work on the inside of the tank!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/042a-ManholeCoverHinge-12-DSC_6949.jpg)

That completes the Manhole Assembly (Chapter 6).  It was a short one! :)

The next section will be Chapter 7 – Steps and Handrails.

See you all next week :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on April 06, 2020, 02:25:02 AM
Nice work Kim! Coming along very nicely.

Can just hear the elves singing....... hi ho hi ho it’s off to work we go........hang about they must have some ring ins visiting! :lolb: :facepalm:

Stay safe.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2020, 05:36:37 AM
Thanks Kerrin!
Well, we can't have the elves moving in till we get the stairs and railings in place.  Wouldn't want to get sued by the elf lawyers!  I hear they're pretty nasty! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on April 06, 2020, 11:28:40 PM

 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :wine1:

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 20, 2020, 08:40:33 PM
Chapter 7.1 – Steps

The next thing to make are the Steps.  I presume these allow someone to safely climb up the back of the tank to access the manhole.  Not sure what you do there? Check the water depth?  Climb in and check the tank itself? Regardless, I’m making steps!

The steps are made from 0.040” brass sheet.  I cut a strip from the large sheet using the bandsaw then took that strip to the mill to make the edges straight, parallel, and exactly 3/4" of an inch apart.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-1-DSC_6957.jpg)

Then I marked it up as best I could at the various places I would need to place a bend in order to make the stairs.  The shape of the steps can be seen below the ruler.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-2-DSC_6959.jpg)

I annealed the brass which burnt off all the layout blue, but you could still see the light scribe lines.  So using those lines, the vice with soft jaws and a small array of pliers (needle nose, and some smooth jaw pliers of various sizes that I’ve collected over the years) I bent the steps to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-3-DSC_6964.jpg)

And here we have the steps:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-4-DSC_6965.jpg)

Next, I laid out the locations for screw holes and drilled them, then used double-sided sticky tape to hold the steps in place on the tank:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-5-DSC_6969.jpg)

With that, I drilled through the top of the tank at each spot and tapped all the holes (0-80).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-6-DSC_6972.jpg)

And here are the steps attached and in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/043a-Steps-7-DSC_6974.jpg)

Next will be the handrails for the steps.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 20, 2020, 09:29:02 PM
They had to walk up the tank to light the oil lamp.  And likely to guide the nozzle for the water fill.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2020, 05:00:57 AM
Well, now, that makes a lot of sense, KVOM!  :embarassed:
Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2020, 08:48:00 PM
Chapter 7.2 – Handrail

Next is the handrail that goes along by the steps.

First I made the mounting plates for the rail.  The stair rail requires 4, but I need two of the exact same piece for the handholds along the front side of the car, so I made six.

I wanted to make this out of stainless, so I used a short length of 1/2" 303 stainless steel rod.  I put this in the 5C collet holder and milled some off each side to get the desired width for the mounting plates.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/01-DSC_6975.JPG)

Then I drilled the center hole for the rail and the two outside mounting holes. The center hole is a little trickier than you might think.  Most of the holes should be 3/32" straight up and down.  But ONE of them needs to be at an angle!  So what I did, was to drill a smaller hole all the way through the stack, but did a second drilling of 3/32" through about 75% of the length.  Just enough to leave at some length at the bottom that isn't a whole 3/32" (yet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/02-DSC_6979.JPG)

Next, I used a 1/32” slitting saw to slice 1/16” wide pieces off of this to make the supports.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/03-DSC_6982.JPG)

For the center hole, I made sure five of them were drilled out to 3/16”.  But I left one with a smaller hole and use that one to drill at an angle to match the slope of the back of the tank.  Using a 3/16” mill, I supported it at an angle and drilled out the hole. The itty bitty plate with the 1/8” marked on it is just there to move the piece out so I didn’t drill into my angle block below.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/04-DSC_6986.JPG)

And here’s all the mounting plates up to this point – the one on the right end is the one with the center hole drilled at an angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/05-DSC_6990.JPG)

Next, I made some filing buttons and rounded off the ends of the mounting plates:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/06-DSC_6991.JPG)

All rounded off:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/07-DSC_6994.JPG)

For the rail itself, Kozo specifies 0.090” rod.  I don’t know where he sources that from.  I used 3/32”, which is mighty close at 0.093”.  So I bent a length of 3/32” stainless rod into shape for the handrail:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/08-DSC_6997.JPG)

And drilled some tiny holes (#59, which is 0.041”) in the rail where I want the supports to go:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/09-DSC_6998.JPG)

I cut a couple of supports to length, then used a tiny round file to make one end concave, to fit closely against the handrail. To make a center hole in these supports I took a scrap of aluminum, clamped it in the vice, then drilled a slightly oversized 3/32” hole.  I used this to hold the supports and it was already centered for the #59 hole in the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/10-DSC_7004.JPG)

Then I cut a couple of short lengths of 0.040” stainless wire and used them to hold the supports in place on the rail, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/11-DSC_7005.JPG)

Now its silver solder time!
(before)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/12-DSC_7006.JPG)

(after)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/13-DSC_7009.JPG)

That worked out pretty well! Next, I’ll be soldering the mounting plates to the end of the four rail supports.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 03, 2020, 08:52:36 PM
That railing came out great! I'm calling you next time I need a railing for a tugboat model....
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 03, 2020, 11:32:04 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I worked with a carpenter once called Ray Ling, he was really good at banisters and spindles, for some reason....... :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 03, 2020, 11:47:31 PM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I worked with a carpenter once called Ray Ling, he was really good at banisters and spindles, for some reason....... :Lol:
:slap:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 04, 2020, 05:57:16 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I worked with a carpenter once called Ray Ling, he was really good at banisters and spindles, for some reason....... :Lol:
:slap:
:Jester:
Thanks CNR & Chris!  You guys are too much :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 10, 2020, 08:07:04 AM
Excellent detail work as ever  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

I thought that Ray Ling was a Chinese fence.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 10, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Roger, could be, but I thought the Chinese fence experts local to me were Bam Bu and Py Lup. They subcontracted to an Irish fence guy Pyle O'Stones.    :Lol:   :shrug:   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 10, 2020, 05:07:25 PM
Those puns are real groaners!  ::)

But I love 'em! Keep them coming!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 10, 2020, 05:12:45 PM
Moving on with the stair handrail for the tender, I silver soldered three of the mounting plates to the stair rail supports.  These three were positioned by measuring down from the handrail. The fourth mounting plate was harder to position and I did that one in the next step.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-1-DSC_7011.jpg)

After filing down the extra length on the supports so they were flush with the bottom of the mounting plates, I positioned the rail where it should go, as best I could, to get the location of the final mounting plate.  This one is on the flat part of the tender so it will not be the same distance from the handrail as all the other mounting plates.  In this picture, you can see how I’ve positioned the left most mounting plate to be even with the top of the tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-2-DSC_7013.jpg)

Here’s a closeup of the left-most mounting plate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-6-DSC_7012.JPG)

After silvers soldering and a lot of cleanup work to get it nice and shiny, here’s the completed handrail:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-3-DSC_7016.jpg)

Next, I positioned the rail and transferred the mounting holes to the top of the tank.  After drilling and tapping, here we are:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-4-DSC_7021.jpg)

OK, it really wasn’t quite that smooth. One of the holes came out in the wrong place.  I ended up drilling it out bigger and just using a nut on the underside to hold the screw in place.  This should work fine and nobody will see it but you!  :embarassed:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/044b-Handrail-5-DSC_7022.jpg)

While the handrail is now complete, I’ve got several more rails to go for the tender, so those will be up next.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 10, 2020, 05:48:33 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 11, 2020, 12:05:16 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 11, 2020, 12:50:02 AM
Hi Kim

The stairs and railing turned out very nice!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 11, 2020, 03:13:25 PM
 :ThumbsUp: and that's no pun.  ;D
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2020, 06:54:57 PM
Thanks Chris, CNR, Dave and Zee,
I do appreciate the kind (and punny) comments!
(intended or otherwise :)
Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: J.L. on May 15, 2020, 10:09:44 PM
Hi KIm,

This is a labour of love. You have put so much care and precision into your build. The careful, step-by-step photography also indicates the pride and enjoyment you are getting out of this amazing construction.  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on May 16, 2020, 01:17:24 AM
Hi KIm,

This is a labour of love. You have put so much care and precision into your build. The careful, step-by-step photography also indicates the pride and enjoyment you are getting out of this amazing construction.  :praise2:

Very well said John. Applies to many members here (including you).
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2020, 05:54:52 AM
Hi KIm,

This is a labour of love. You have put so much care and precision into your build. The careful, step-by-step photography also indicates the pride and enjoyment you are getting out of this amazing construction.  :praise2:

Thank you for the kind compliment John.  Your words mean a lot to me.

And I couldn't agree with Carl more!  This is true of many members of this site, especially you.  The care and detail you put into every step of your builds is inspiring.  Thanks for sharing your work with us!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2020, 06:37:24 PM
Chapter 7.3 – Handholds

The next item to make is the front handholds.  These are railings that go at the front of the tender to use when climbing the front steps.

These are also made from the 3/16” SS rod that I used for the stair railing.  I made a mistake in one of my previous posts.  I said Kozo called for 0.090” SS rod for the railing but its actually 0.100” rod he specifies.  However, I couldn’t source 0.100” rod either, so I went with 3/32” (0.093”) which is still pretty close.  1/8”  is the next closest, easily sourced size, and that’s off by 25 thou as opposed to 7 thou.

The first thing to make for the front handholds is the lower right-angle brackets.  I made these from 3/16” square 303 stainless.

I cut two little pieces, milled them to length, then cut a notch out to make them “L” shaped.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-1-DSC_7026.jpg)

Then I flipped them around and drilled a 1/8” deep hole to attach the railing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-2-DSC_7028.jpg)

Then I silver soldered the right angle bracket to the end of the railing:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-3-DSC_7029.jpg)

I got a little ahead of myself with the silver soldering – I’d intended to do the next two steps before the soldering but forgot.  So I’ll do it now. And it probably doesn’t make much difference, really.   I needed to drill the mounting hole in the bracket to attach it to the tender frame:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-4-DSC_7032.jpg)

And I needed to round the top side of the bracket, which I did by filing:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-5-DSC_7033.jpg)

Now, comes the challenging part – forming the curves in the railing.  This handhold has two bends in it – very tight radius of 1/4".  To do this, I cut a 3/32” wide grove, 3/64” deep, into a 1/2" diameter piece of steel.  Then used this as a form for the bending of the rail.  This shows the 1/2" form and the piece after the first bend.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-6-DSC_7037.jpg)
Here’s a picture of the second bend being formed. I had to be extra careful with this step – one rail had to be ‘left handed’ and the other ‘right handed’.  The direction of this bend is what made the difference!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-7-DSC_7038.jpg)

Here are the two hand rails after forming:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-8-DSC_7040.jpg)

And now, after silver soldering on the top mounting bracket.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045a-FrontStepHandholds-9-DSC_7042.jpg)

This brings us up to the state of play at the moment.  Only a few more steps to go for these front handholds.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: J.L. on May 17, 2020, 10:12:25 PM
Kim,
This is superb sequential photography that make the process so easy to follow.

Kudos! :NotWorthy:

John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 18, 2020, 05:19:56 AM
Thank you John  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 23, 2020, 10:29:32 PM
Finishing up the front handholds, I filed off the extra length of rail after silver soldering, then spent a good chunk of time cleaning up the handrails so they loop nice and shiny:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045b-FrontStepHandholds-1-DSC_7045.jpg)

I drilled and tapped holes in the frame for the front handholds.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045b-FrontStepHandholds-2-DSC_7046.jpg)

With them attached on the frame, I used the mounting plate itself as a template for the holes in the tank.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045b-FrontStepHandholds-3-DSC_7052.jpg)

Then tapped the holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045b-FrontStepHandholds-4-DSC_7056.jpg)

And attached the front handholds:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/045b-FrontStepHandholds-5-DSC_7059.jpg)

Now those two railings are done!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 23, 2020, 10:32:06 PM
The next handhold is the rear horizontal handhold – presumably for climbing on the tender from the back. :)

This requires more mounting plates similar to the previous ones, but these only have a single mounting hole.  Since these are smaller, I made them from 3/8” round 303 stainless.

Here I’ve cut the stainless rod down to width:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046a-RearStepHandhold-1-DSC_7061.jpg)

Then drilled the holes.  The bigger one (3/32”) for the rail and the smaller one (#48) for a #1-72 mounting screw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046a-RearStepHandhold-2-DSC_7065.jpg)

Then slice a few off:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046a-RearStepHandhold-3-DSC_7066.jpg)

I only need 4 of them, but I made a few extras for the shop gnomes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046a-RearStepHandhold-4-DSC_7069.jpg)

I’m making 2 of these horizontal handholds – one will be along the rear of the tender and the other will be set aside for use on the engine later.

This is where I called it a day and came in.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
Continuing on with the rear horizontal handrail.

The last step for the mounting plates was to use some filing buttons to round off the ends.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-01-DSC_7071.jpg)

Then it was time to silver solder them to some 3/16” SS rod:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-02-DSC_7075.jpg)

 And then bend them to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-03-DSC_7077.jpg)

After bending, it was time to attach a mounting plate to the other side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-04-DSC_7078.jpg)

Here’s after soldering, but before I filed off the excess rail.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-05-DSC_7081.jpg)

And after filing off the excess rail and some significant polishing up time to get them to shine!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-06-DSC_7084.jpg)

Then, as  I went to mount one on the tender, things didn’t seem to be lining up correctly.  So, I checked the demotions, and said “Bummer”.  I’d carefully made the rail 5 1/4” long, but the plans clearly show 5 1/4" between the mounting holes!  So my rails were 5/16” too long! :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-07-DSC_7085.jpg)

After giving it some thought on the best way to recover, here’s what I did:
I cut off one of the mounting plates as CLOSE to the plate as I could.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-08-DSC_7088.jpg)

Then I rebent that end so the rail was 5/16” shorter.  Like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-09-DSC_7091.jpg)


Luckily, I’d made a couple of extra mounting plates, so I used those and soldered them in place on the newly shortened handhold rails.  With that done, I cleaned and polished and was back to where I thought I was 90 minutes ago.  But this time, the rails were the correct length!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-10-DSC_7095.jpg)

Finally, I drilled and tapped mounting holes for the rail along the rear of the tender:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-11-DSC_7097.jpg)

And here it is, all mounted in place!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/046b-RearStepHandhold-12-DSC_7100.jpg)

It looks pretty good despite the minor mishap of that misread length  :embarassed:

Anyway, thanks for looking in on my build.  Always much appreciated!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 25, 2020, 11:25:52 PM
Looking great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Now those Pennsy engineers and firemen will have somewhere to rack their surfboards on the way to hang 10 at the beach   in sunny Altoona in February........ er ............maybe not. (Pennsy ran a long way west but not quite to SoCal - at least the switchers didn't  - I don't think........ :embarassed:)  Forget I said anything!  :Lol:    :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 26, 2020, 05:40:56 AM
Maybe they're going to surf the Atlantic?  Do people surf on the east coast?  I don't know :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 26, 2020, 01:39:32 PM
Maybe they're going to surf the Atlantic?  Do people surf on the east coast?  I don't know :)

Kim
There are definitely surfers on the east coast. Surf is nothing like the wave height in Hawaii though!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 27, 2020, 01:23:29 AM
More great progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2020, 05:01:17 AM
Thanks, Dave   :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 01, 2020, 08:30:49 AM
Wonderful attention to detail  8)  :wine1: and a good recovery  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 08, 2020, 08:48:47 PM
Thanks, Roger! :)
Kim

Chapter 7.4 – Handholds

This installment, we work on the last of our handholds are the vertical handholds.  We’ll be making four of these, two for the rear of the tender and two for the front of the engine. They are companions to the horizontal handholds just completed.

These vertical handholds are made from 3/8” 303 stainless rod.  They are turned to a taper with a little decorative bead on the top end and a hex shape at the base.  They are less than 3” long, but quite spindly little critters.

So, I start by turning down the part that will be tapered.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-01-DSC_7101.jpg)

But, as one might anticipate (and as I feared) as I got the part down in size, the tool dug in and the part snapped:  (the part that broke off is sitting on the live center)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-02-DSC_7104.jpg)

So, it was time to try again.  This time, I sharpened the tool up really good. And I decided to do more of it closer to the collet. That seemed to work.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-03-DSC_7107.jpg)

I think the sharp tool actually made a huge difference.  It was cutting really well.  So, I extended it out to complete the length.  I had to do the taper at full length regardless.  And that worked out the way I wanted it to this time:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-04-DSC_7108.jpg)

However, I wasn’t pleased with the little bead on the end.  I shapped this with a file, and it just didn’t come out looking very good.  It was hard to be very aggressive with the files because 1) the part was delicate and 2) I was too afraid of biting into the tapered part and it was VERY difficult to get in there.  This is quite small, in spite of how it looks in the picture (It’s a 3/32” wide bead).  The bead just doesn’t look rounded enough for me.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-05-DSC_7111.jpg)

So, I decided to do what I should have from the start and make a form tool. I wanted to use a 3/32” ball end mill to cut the shape in the tool, but I didn’t have one.  Then I had a better idea!  I used a 3/32” straight end mill (which I DID have) and drilled a hole through the tool steel at a 7o angle:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-06-DSC_7114.jpg)

Then milled off half of the hole (still at the 7o angle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-07-DSC_7115.jpg)

After that, I cut flats on the top and bottom of the tool and narrowed the business end of the tool a bit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-08-DSC_7116.jpg)

After hardening and tempering, I sharpened it up and carefully used it on the bead.  It was magical! So much better!  Well worth the effort of making the tool.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-09-DSC_7120.jpg)

After that, I shaped the bottom portion of the handhold to make a place for the hex and the #8 threads, then moved to the mill.  Holding it with the 5C hex collet holder, I cut the hex shape:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-10-DSC_7122.jpg)

Then I used a die to form the #8-36 threads on the end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-11-DSC_7124.jpg)

And we have one of the four vertical handholds completed :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047a-VerticalHandhold-12-DSC_7128.jpg)

Only 3 more to go.  This is the output of my last 2 weekends in the shop.  It took a long time for me to mess up, make a cool tool. And then try it all again.  Hopefully, the next three will go much faster now that I have the process down!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 08, 2020, 09:07:24 PM
Beautiful result on that railing!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Plani on June 08, 2020, 09:15:35 PM
Very nice parts, Kim  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

It's almost always worthwhile to go the extra mile (ask me how I know that one  ;))

Keep up the good work. I enjoy your build log a lot  :popcorn: It's inspiring!

Plani
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 08, 2020, 11:18:09 PM
Nice job!

Can you tell me more details about hardening and tempering that cutter?

(That raises another question for me...and hopefully I'm not hijacking things...)

I recently modified an HSS cutter. All I did was grind, file, and sharpen. No hardening or tempering.
Anything wrong with that?

Did you harden and temper because you used tool steel? (And I'm not sure what the difference is between HSS and tool steel.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2020, 12:06:18 AM
Thanks, Chris, Plani, and Zee!  :cheers:

Can you tell me more details about hardening and tempering that cutter?
I don't have a heat treating oven, so I just use my torch.  I heat the part up till it's a nice cherry red (or more) and hold it there for a few min, then douse it in water.   I use water because I'm using W-1, which is water hardening tool steel. (O-1 would be oil hardening.)

After drying the part, I polish it up a bit to get the soot and black off the part, then heat it up slowly and carefully till it just starts to turn a titch brown (people say "Straw Color").  Then stop QUICKLY.  And I try to be careful to stay away from the tool tip with the flame.  The tips can get hot fast, and if you do that, you can lose the hardening you did in the first step.

My understanding is that the tempering helps to make the steel less brittle, without losing the hardness you gained by heat treating.

(That raises another question for me...and hopefully I'm not hijacking things...)

I recently modified an HSS cutter. All I did was grind, file, and sharpen. No hardening or tempering.
Anything wrong with that?
Definitely not hijacking the thread!  This is good stuff!

Nope, nothing wrong with that.  Your HSS was already heat treated.  As long as you don't get the tip too hot, I think this is the correct way to do it. You don't need to harden it again unless you anneal it for some reason.  The tool should be hardened all the way through.

Did you harden and temper because you used tool steel? (And I'm not sure what the difference is between HSS and tool steel.)
Yup, just what you said.  I think tool steel is just high carbon steel that hasn't been hardened yet so you can still work it easily.  HSS is probably a little more fancy than just W-1 tool steel, but I don't know the specific difference. Smarter people on this board probably do though, and hopefully they'll answer.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 09, 2020, 01:13:44 AM
Thanks Kim!

I've been following closely. As I said before...your thread is a reference for me.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 14, 2020, 05:29:38 PM
A lot done in the shop today, but not many pictures to show for it.  I made the remaining 3 vertical handholds. Here they are together:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047b-VerticalHandhold-1-DSC_7129.jpg)

And put 2 of them on the rear of the tender, in their final resting place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/047b-VerticalHandhold-2-DSC_7132.jpg)

Next up will be the hand pump.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on June 15, 2020, 12:17:06 AM
Loving the progress.

Question...what are you doing for lighting when you take pictures? I've really struggled getting decent pics.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 15, 2020, 12:27:38 AM
The handles turned out real nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 15, 2020, 05:43:16 AM
Thanks Zee and Dave! :)

Question...what are you doing for lighting when you take pictures? I've really struggled getting decent pics.
I turn off all my task lighting and just use the ambient shot light, which is still pretty bright, but it doesn't glare nearly as bad as the task lights do.  I use a tripod and take long exposures, probably f-stop of 13 to 32 and an exposure of 2-6 seconds (sometimes up to 10s, but usually not that long).

I do a little post processing - white balance and cropping, sometimes some exposure adjustment.  But usually not too much.  I use Picasa, but I'm not sure Google has it available anymore.  Which is too bad.  I've found it to be a great image management program.  We've got 20 years worth of pictures all in Picasa.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2020, 05:58:41 PM
Chapter 8.1 – Pump Body

Next, I started on the hand pump.  The hand pump will be inside the tender.  The handle will be detachable, but when attached will stick out through the manhole and allow you to pump water from the tender into the boiler.

The first part of the hand pump is the pump body.  This is a complex little fabrication job with six different pieces used to make up the whole thing.  The first piece I made was the discharge nozzle.  This was made from 5/16” round brass and threaded 5/16”-24.

I drilled the hole in it (no picture) then threaded it:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-1-DSC_7134.jpg)

Then brought the connection point down to 0.200” and cut it off the rod.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-2-DSC_7136.jpg)

The discharge nozzle will fit into the column, which is made from 7/16” brass rod.  Here I’m drilling a #20 hole half way through the rod to accept the discharge nozzle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-3-DSC_7137.jpg)

I then proceeded to silver solder the nozzle into the column. Here’s the completed subassembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-4-DSC_7147.jpg)

The main part of the pump body is made from a length of 5/8”x3/4” 360 brass bar.  This part is drilled and reamed 7/16” for the column to be silver soldered into.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-5-DSC_7139.jpg)

Then I milled a 1/8” groove in the top of the body for the handle attachment lug,
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-6-DSC_7141.jpg)

and in the bottom for the stand lug.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-7-DSC_7144.jpg)

And here are all the pump body parts we have so far, and where I left off for the day.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048a-HandPumpBody-8-DSC_7145.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by for a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 28, 2020, 05:31:17 PM
Continuing on with the body of the hand pump.

The next thing I needed to do was to make the two lugs (one for the stand, and one for the pump handle), then silver solder the pieces together.

The stand lug is just a length of 1/8” brass stock.  The handle lug isn’t much more complicated, but it does have a hole in it and a bit of a shape.  So I drilled the hole:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-01-DSC_7150.jpg)

And filed to shape.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-02-DSC_7152.jpg)

However, when I went to solder it in place, I had a little mishap.  I was using a weight to hold the lug in place, but the material that went around the hole was so thin, that when I was heating the assembly up to soldering temperature the weight caused the brass to warp and smush the hole. :(  So, I made a second lug and chose to leave the hole, and final shaping till AFTER it was soldered in place.  You can see the smushed one on the brick in the lower-left corner.  This is after I soldered the new one in place. I actually soldered the pieces on one at a time.  The handle lug was the last one I did since it was small and I was worried that it could get overheated while I was messing around with all the other parts.  Seems my fear wasn’t misplaced!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-03-DSC_7153.jpg)

After a nice pickle bath it looks much better:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-04-DSC_7157.jpg)

I’m following Kozo’s steps for this part exactly as he shows them.  Left to myself, I’d have probably used the mill for all this drilling.  But he used the lathe.  So, I followed his process, learning some new methods and techniques in the process!  The column was intentionally left long just for this operation.  Clamping the long column in the 3 jaw I faced off the other end to the correct length:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-05-DSC_7158.jpg)

Then proceeded to drill a series of holes in the end.  This shows using a D-bit to create a good seat for the outlet check-ball.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-06-DSC_7162.jpg)


Next was tapping the hole 1/4"-32 and then opening up the end a few thou just larger than the threads. Not exactly sure what this is for, but it looks nice!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-07-DSC_7163.jpg)

After completing the top side (the outlet) ball chest, it was time to remove the excess length on the column, which I did on the bandsaw.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-08-DSC_7165.jpg)

Then it was back to the lathe. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get the part to fit in my 3 jaw – there were just too many small protrusions on the pump body.  My solution was to use the Taig 3-jaw chuck.  For some past project, I had created a mandrel to hold the Taig chucks mounted in my collet chuck on the big lathe.  It seems to work pretty well.

With the holding problem solved, I faced off the bottom end to length and proceeded to do a similar series of operations to this opposite side.  No ball seat on this side though.  The ball seat will screw into the threads.  Here I’m tapping the bottom with the same 1/4"-32 tap.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-09-DSC_7167.jpg)

And this is the state of play where I left.  The main pump body has been fabricated and I’ve created the ball seat for the outlet check-ball and the ball chest for the inlet ball.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-10-DSC_7170.jpg)

And just to prove that the hole really goes all the way through:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048b-HandPumpBody-11-DSC_7173.jpg)

Next time I’ll drill the hole for the plunger and hopefully finish up the hand pump body.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 28, 2020, 05:35:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on June 29, 2020, 10:02:32 PM
Great work Kim

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 29, 2020, 10:47:48 PM
Nice work on the pump!  As I recall, that counterbore above the threads is for an o-ring to seat in, to seal up the top plug piece.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2020, 06:15:18 PM
Thanks CNR, Samc, and Chris  :cheers:

Nice work on the pump!  As I recall, that counterbore above the threads is for an o-ring to seat in, to seal up the top plug piece.

Interesting.  I don't remember there being o-rings there, but maybe so.  Their is an o-ring around the plunger, but I thought the outlet was sealed by the threads.  But an O-ring could be a good idea.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 30, 2020, 07:10:36 PM
Rechecked the Shay book, no o ring there, my bad memory.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2020, 08:33:44 PM
Let's see... since you did your Shay you've only completed another 143 metal working projects, several dozen carvings, nine RC Submarines, and multi-dozen other projects... and you didn't remember if there was an o-ring?  :thinking: I don't think you need to worry about your memory, Chris!  You remember more about projects you did 7-8 years ago than I do about the one I'm doing right now!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 30, 2020, 08:48:28 PM
Let's see... since you did your Shay you've only completed another 143 metal working projects, several dozen carvings, nine RC Submarines, and multi-dozen other projects... and you didn't remember if there was an o-ring?  :thinking: I don't think you need to worry about your memory, Chris!  You remember more about projects you did 7-8 years ago than I do about the one I'm doing right now!  :ROFL:

Kim
:cheers:
And it was only 141 metalworking projects...  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 04, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
I had the day off for the 4th of July weekend, so got to have some extra time in the shop today!

Continuing where I left off with the handpump body, I clamped the assembly into the 4-jaw chuck and proceeded to drill a #22 hole all the way through to the vertical hole in the column.  Then I followed that with a near 3/8” hole, followed by reaming at 3/8”:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-1-DSC_7175.jpg)

The outer 7/16” was bored to 0.508”.  This will be for an o-ring to seal around the plunger.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-2-DSC_7178.jpg)

We’re getting to the final steps on this complex piece!
In the opposite end, I drilled and tapped a hole for a #1-72 screw. This is to keep the inlet check-ball in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-3-DSC_7180.jpg)

Then drilled and reamed the 1/8” hole in the pump handle lug.  I also rounded the lug, but no picture of that operation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-4-DSC_7182.jpg)

I drilled and tapped a couple of #1-72 holes for screws to hold the base in place during silver soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-5-DSC_7183.jpg)

And last for today, I cut the base plate and milled it to dimension, then drilled through holes for the mounting screws and for the #1 screws used for soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048c-HandPumbBody-6-DSC_7185.jpg)

That’s where I ran out of steam and left things for the day.  Couldn’t quite get the part finished, but it's close!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on July 04, 2020, 04:30:07 PM
Nice work. I was also working on the pump body this weekend. What a stressful part as there are some tricky (to me) steps and a lot of time and material $ goes  into the pump body. Unfortunately I could not hold the 0.375 cylinder bore on my sloppy 7” lathe. I ordered some 10mm 303 stainless stock that I’ll need to turn down a hair to save this assembly.

You did a really nice job on this, and are flying compared to me!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 04, 2020, 08:01:30 PM
Great progress Kim - hope you dont make the mistake I did on first pump, and you use stainless spring and ball bearings! Mine worked at first, then rusted.   :wallbang: Got right materials for reworking it. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 05, 2020, 05:17:42 AM
Nice work. I was also working on the pump body this weekend. What a stressful part as there are some tricky (to me) steps and a lot of time and material $ goes  into the pump body. Unfortunately I could not hold the 0.375 cylinder bore on my sloppy 7” lathe. I ordered some 10mm 303 stainless stock that I’ll need to turn down a hair to save this assembly.

You did a really nice job on this, and are flying compared to me!
Thanks Matthew! it does have a lot of steps!  I tried not to think about how much work it would be to re-do if I screwed up.  Just tried to focus carefully on each step as I went.  Hopefully I did OK. Guess we'll see soon!

That sounds like a pain, to have to turn down stock to 3/8".  But hopefully it worked for you!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 05, 2020, 05:19:49 AM
Great progress Kim - hope you dont make the mistake I did on first pump, and you use stainless spring and ball bearings! Mine worked at first, then rusted.   :wallbang: Got right materials for reworking it.
Yes, I was very careful to select stainless balls and stainless wire for the springs.  Made it a big harder to source, but it seemed like an important detail :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on July 05, 2020, 07:01:25 AM
Hi Kim, nice progress.
This valve ball/check valve story is mostly not so easy.
Very important is the design of the ball seat.
If it is not possible to do this so perfect as required, these type of balls will help a lot.
https://www.bengs-modellbau.de/en/material/seals/157/grafi-sil-valve-balls
This is a German source, but I am sure there will be also a US dealer.
A quick check at McMaster-Carr showing me this
https://www.mcmaster.com/silicone-rubber-balls
Good luck for your further steps with this excellent build.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on July 05, 2020, 08:19:22 AM
Hi Kim, here an explanation what I understand by not so easy to make.
Left side, standard ball seat with a 118° drill bit made.
Right side the best shape for sealing, but much more difficult to make.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2020, 05:51:39 AM
Thank you for the info, Achim!  I'm wondering if there's any US distributor that has those Silicon balls?  Those look like they'd be really good for these type of ball-check valves.

I did use a D-bit to create the seat, so hopefully it looks like the more ideal case in your excellent drawing.  But it can be hard to get a good, smooth seat there.  I may see if I can find some of those balls like that.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2020, 03:43:03 PM
Thank you for the info, Achim!  I'm wondering if there's any US distributor that has those Silicon balls?  Those look like they'd be really good for these type of ball-check valves.

I did use a D-bit to create the seat, so hopefully it looks like the more ideal case in your excellent drawing.  But it can be hard to get a good, smooth seat there.  I may see if I can find some of those balls like that.

Thanks,
Kim
Closest I have seen are these from McmasterCarr - not the same compound as he linked to, but meant for same use:
https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber-balls/durometer~70amps/

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2020, 08:37:16 PM
Thanks Chris,
I also came across these: https://www.plasticballsupply.com/5-32-in-0-156-black-viton-rubber-resin-balls-70a/?utm_campaign=shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItNeZqqy56gIVNx6tBh1RWQHWEAQYASABEgJZDPD_BwE (https://www.plasticballsupply.com/5-32-in-0-156-black-viton-rubber-resin-balls-70a/?utm_campaign=shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItNeZqqy56gIVNx6tBh1RWQHWEAQYASABEgJZDPD_BwE)

Seem to be similar.

Have you used these before instead of SS balls?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2020, 09:15:35 PM
Look like the same things - I suspect Carr's shipping will be cheaper than the $15 that PBS lists, worth an email to them to find out (since Carr does not show shipping in the shopping cart, but will respond with a shipping quote by email before ordering).

I've never used them for check valves, but it looks worth a try. Seems like they would form to the shape of the opening nicely, question is do they release easily or stick when squished in. For a few bucks, worth a try (especially if combined with a larger order for something else to dilute the shipping cost). For the rubber balls, seems like the shape left by a standard drill bit would work fine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 07, 2020, 09:42:30 AM
Hi Kim,
 I’ve tried the nitrile balls in the non returns on my loco. Worked great for awhile then I had issues, changed them out for new ones & had the same problem. By chance I found that they had deformed.
I have since found that using a square faced hole isn’t the way to go for nitrile balls, you need a tapered.
The other way to go is nitride balls. These are extremely hard & round, unlike stainless ones, the usual idea is to put a ball in the hole against the seat & give it a wack to create seat, throw the ball & use a new one. With the nitride ball you can use the same ball as they are so hard. Instead of a wack use your vice with a suitable length of rod & put a controlled squeeze on the ball to form the seat
When I get sorted I’m heading down this road, I got the balls via EBay.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2020, 04:59:49 PM
Thanks Kerrin!
Now I'll need to look into Nitride balls too :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2020, 05:23:53 PM
Just did some searching for nitride, is it the silicone nitride balls you are using?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2020, 09:40:52 PM
Since Silicon Nitride is stronger than steel, how would it be better than using Stainless Steel?  Isn't the benefit of using the rubber balls that they will conform to the seat better if it is slightly out of round or has a little defect?  If you use something harder than steel, you lose that benefit, so maybe I should just stick with the Stainless balls I already have?

Is there other reasons that make the Silicon Nitride better?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Liero on July 08, 2020, 02:59:44 PM
Hi

The mentionded balls are made of silicon nitrile (not nitiride)  ==> they are soft "rubberlike".

Lukas
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2020, 08:38:59 PM
Ah... makes sense.  I'll look that up now :)
Thanks Lukas!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2020, 08:41:20 PM
Wrapping up the pump body, I cleaned and prepped the piece to silver solder the base in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048d-HandPumpBody-1-DSC_7189.jpg)

After a good pickling and some clean up, here’s the completed Pump Body assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/048d-HandPumpBody-2-DSC_7202.jpg)

As previously stated, a lot of steps and operations involved in making the pump body assembly.  Glad that ones done!  The next few parts should go more quickly!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2020, 08:45:14 PM
Chapter 8.2 – Plunger

Next, I made the plunger for the hand pump.

The plunger was made from 3/8” 303 Stainless rod.
Here I’m tapering the front end of the ram:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/049a-HandPumpPlunger-1-DSC_7191.jpg)

And now I’m using a slitting saw to cut a 1/8” wide notch in the plunger.  I’d already drilled a hole to terminate the slot, and another 1/8” hole at 90o to secure the end of the pump handle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/049a-HandPumpPlunger-2-DSC_7193.jpg)

Here’s the completed plunger:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/049a-HandPumpPlunger-3-DSC_7197.jpg)

This was a simple part!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 08, 2020, 08:45:40 PM
Nice clean job, should be pumping water soon!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2020, 08:47:33 PM
Chapter 8.3 – O-Ring Retainer

The next small part to make for the pump was the O-Ring Retainer.  This piece slides into the wide end where the plunger goes to hold an o-ring in place.

It was made from a sort length of 5/8” bronze.  Though Kozo specifies phosphor bronze, I’m using 544 bearing bronze because it is obtainable, less expensive, and works easily.  Hopefully, the minor difference in composition between the two won’t make too much difference for my model that will see limited use.

The bronze rod comes slightly oversized.  So even though I was using 5/8” rod, I had to hold it in a 43/64” collet.

First I drilled the hole for the plunger:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/050a-HandPumpORingRetainer-2-DSC_7205.jpg)

Then I cut the profile, which is just an extra lip at the end of the retainer.  Then I cut off the part from the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/050a-HandPumpORingRetainer-1-DSC_7204.jpg)

Here’s the pump family picture, showing the pump body, plunger and o-ring retainer.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/050a-HandPumpORingRetainer-3-DSC_7208.jpg)

And this is what they look like assembled.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/050a-HandPumpORingRetainer-4-DSC_7210.jpg)

These little pieces make me feel like I’m making great progress!  Two in one day!

Thanks for stopping by to take a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2020, 08:48:18 PM
Nice clean job, should be pumping water soon!
Thanks Chris!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 09, 2020, 12:11:09 AM
Nice work on the pump Kim!
Just curious, what holds the O-ring in place?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 09, 2020, 12:51:44 AM
Nice work on the pump Kim!
Just curious, what holds the O-ring in place?

Dave
The bore for the plunger is wider out at the end for the inner edge of the o-ring, the outer end of the o-ring is pressed in by the o-ring retainer collar.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 09, 2020, 12:57:11 AM
What I should have said is what holds the O-ring retainer collar in place. :wallbang:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 09, 2020, 12:59:49 AM
What I should have said is what holds the O-ring retainer collar in place. :wallbang:

Dave
Ah - the little hole above the opening of the bore is for a set screw.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 09, 2020, 01:07:12 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 09, 2020, 05:37:23 AM
Yeah, what Chris said :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 14, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
Hi Kim,
 Sorry for the slow reply, re the balls! Ok so these are what I’m talking about...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=silicon+nitride+balls&_sacat=0

The reason to go for these over stainless is they are ROUND......stainless may not be, well not quite as round!
How hard they are shouldn’t be an issue as a non return as they dont open / close at a quick rate, hence beat the seat.

To quote Lukas..

Hi

The mentionded balls are made of silicon nitrile (not nitiride)  ==> they are soft "rubberlike".

Lukas


These are the ones I’ve tried, what I found is if you swap them out with your stainless ones, they will work fine...........for a while! You will then find that sometimes they work & sometimes they don’t work so well! I was getting frustrated with this !

I was at Dads & we were trying to figure out what was going on, with little success. I had the fitting out, when the phone rang, Dad can be gone for a while! Anyway, I tried the suck & blow test method! Same issue as on the loco, changed the ball all good, hmmmm I did the suck blow test for a while & all was good. Time for a closer look, out with the magnifier it was just possible to see indentation in the ball that had been in the non return......had to be the issue!
Sometime latter I read that to make these work you need to provide a bigger seat.....remember bigger in this sense is the difference between a sharp corner that has been “modified” by a wack,(given that the stainless ball you are likely to be using may not be round) & a controlled taper.

The NITRIDE ball can be used to form the seat in a controlled manner by using a press...aka vice....you can then use the same ball in the non return.
Hope that helps

Cheers Kerrin

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 14, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
Collets by 1/64?  That's a major investment!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2020, 05:24:55 AM
Hi Kim,
Sorry for the slow reply, re the balls! Ok so these are what I’m talking about...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=silicon+nitride+balls&_sacat=0

The reason to go for these over stainless is they are ROUND......stainless may not be, well not quite as round!
How hard they are shouldn’t be an issue as a non return as they dont open / close at a quick rate, hence beat the seat.

<snip>
Cheers Kerrin

Thanks Kerrin,
This is great!  I may end up trying the Silicon Nitride balls.  I've got stainless ones, but having used them in the past, I can relate to the hit & miss nature of them.

Thank you for the link!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2020, 05:26:34 AM
Collets by 1/64?  That's a major investment!   :ThumbsUp:

Yeah, well, it was part of a Christmas present to myself one year :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2020, 05:09:20 PM
I’m delinquent with my update from last weekend, so I’ll post that now before I go out and enjoy some shop time.

As mentioned before, I’m on a series of small parts for the tender hand pump. Today I made the plug and started on the suction valve.


Chapter 8.4 – Plug

The plug screws into the top of the pump body and holds the spring against the check-ball in the outlet side of the pump.  It's made from 5/16” Hex rod of 360 brass.

Here it is pretty much done, being cut off.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/051a-HandPumpPlug-1-DSC_7213.jpg)

And the completed plug.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/051a-HandPumpPlug-2-DSC_7216.jpg)

As I said, simple parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2020, 05:11:14 PM
Chapter 8.5 – Suction Valve

Next up I started on the Suction Valve.  This part screws into the bottom of the pump body and is the seat for the inlet check-ball.  The inlet side doesn’t have a spring, depending on gravity to keep the ball in the right place.

The suction valve is made out of 3/4" round 360 brass stock. I turned the basic shape on the lathe. The narrow end is where the ball will seat.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052a-HandPumpSuctionValve-1-DSC_7220.jpg)

Then used a die to cut the 1/4-32 threads.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052a-HandPumpSuctionValve-2-DSC_7223.jpg)

And here’s the part so far, after cutting it off from the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052a-HandPumpSuctionValve-3-DSC_7225.jpg)

Still a bit more work on the suction valve, but that was what I got accomplished last week!

See you all in a bit, after some good shop therapy!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 20, 2020, 09:21:51 PM
Today I finished up the Suction Valve, or, at least mostly finished it…

Picking up from where I’d left off, I held the big end in the hex collet holder and shaped the hex section of the part.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-1-DSC_7228.jpg)

Back on the lathe, I turned the part around and faced off the big end (which is the bottom).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-2-DSC_7229.jpg)

Then I drilled a cone shape in 1/32” increments. This worked well till I got bigger than 1/2" and then I had to move to 1/16” increments.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-3-DSC_7232.jpg)

With most of the material removed, I used my smallest boring bar and smoothed up the edges of the cone.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-4-DSC_7234.jpg)

With that, the machining is complete.  All that was left was to soft solder a screen over the big end.  This didn’t go so well.  I tried it 3-4 times.  My best attempt was to tin the bottom of the cone with solder, then try to heat every thing up again, but the solder still didn’t adhere to the screen. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-5-DSC_7243.jpg)

So, here’s where it’s at for the moment.  I think I may just clean it up and use Loktite to hold it in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/052b-HandPumpSuctionValve-6-DSC_7244.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 20, 2020, 09:31:59 PM
Soft solder? I've never had much luck with soft solder onto stainless steel, hard solder is fine on it, but it might melt the screen. Maybe a couple 0-80 screws?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 20, 2020, 09:41:42 PM
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen.  Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :)).
Do you think Loktite would work?  Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 20, 2020, 09:44:52 PM
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen.  Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :) ).
Do you think Loktite would work?  Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim
Maybe one of the thicker loctites, like 638, the wires dont give much contact patch. Maybe a better way would be to make a cap with an open center, would not need to be thick, just enough to hold the screen in place, and the cylindrical sides would give surface area for the solder or loctite.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 20, 2020, 09:50:26 PM
Hmm.... I'll have to think about that.

Thanks for the thoughts, Chris!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 20, 2020, 09:50:49 PM
Chapter 8.6 – Link

Next up is the link. This will provide the pivot point between the handle and the body.

It’s another simple part.  I started with a length of 1/4" 303 Stainless, milled it to length then drilled the pivot holes, turned int 90o and drilled some holes for the end of the slit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/053a-HandPumpLink-1-DSC_7239.jpg)

Before I cut the slits, I used some files and filing buttons to round over the end of the link.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/053a-HandPumpLink-2-DSC_7241.jpg)

And that’s where I’m stopping today.  Didn’t get the link complete as I still have to cut the slits.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on July 20, 2020, 10:26:38 PM
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen.  Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :)).
Do you think Loktite would work?  Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim

I ordered some brass screen from McMaster hoping that it will stick to solder. Not sure if it is too fine a mesh or not. That could be an option, I hope?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 20, 2020, 10:51:37 PM
Coming along nicely Kim!
 Maybe just a dab of "Super Glue" on the screen?

 John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2020, 05:48:26 AM
Yeah, that's what I was worried about, Chris - melting the screen.  Which is why I didn't consider hard solder (at least not much :)).
Do you think Loktite would work?  Seems like a filter screen on the intake isn't stressed THAT much. And it certainly won't be hot!
Kim

I ordered some brass screen from McMaster hoping that it will stick to solder. Not sure if it is too fine a mesh or not. That could be an option, I hope?
Yeah, I bought a pack of 100 "brass pipe screens" that are 3/4" round.  It was cheap that way, but I'm not sure it was the best idea?  It was something like this (if not exactly this): https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073JP7SFR/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=3%2F4%22+brass+screens&qid=1595306798&sr=8-6 (https://www.amazon.com/Brass-Pipe-Screens-Screen-Filters/dp/B073JP7SFR/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=3%2F4%22+brass+screens&qid=1595306798&sr=8-6)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2020, 05:49:01 AM
Maybe just a dab of "Super Glue" on the screen?

 John
Yeah, that's what I'm currently thinking :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on July 21, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
i like the cup over the screen to hold it in place if it is brass it would solder easily and you will know it will stay on
it could be crimped over a little . if you use super glue you will not know if it falls off .loktite is not really a glue
to stick things on like an epoxy glue and again if it falls off you won't know.      john 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 21, 2020, 12:12:20 PM
Hi Kim, +1 on John's cup idea to retain the screen. I would not depend on Loctite or Superglue to hold the screen forever immersed in water. Seen superglue fail in water immersed jobs several times.

In Kozo's earlier designs of locomotives he showed a groove around the pickup funnel and the screen retained by a wire wrapped around and twisted tight. That would also work, but the screen would have to be very thin and compliant to get it formed over the end to start with.

You are making great progress! enjoying your build pics!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2020, 06:07:52 PM
Thanks John and CNR,
I appreciate the thoughtful input.  I'll continue pondering and think about a more positive retention mechanism.  Seems that the superglue/Loktite solution isn't as good as I was thinking...  :thinking:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 21, 2020, 07:13:05 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2: Ball valves are tricky things  ::) The bore of the seating is also important, it should at least be reamed if the seating is flat or raised as in Achim's drawing.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 22, 2020, 08:38:42 PM
Still following along and enjoying  :praise2:  :praise2: Ball valves are tricky things  ::) The bore of the seating is also important, it should at least be reamed if the seating is flat or raised as in Achim's drawing.

Thanks Roger!
The D-bit I made for this has a 15o angle on the end, so there should be a good raised seat for the hole to sit on.

I'm looking at going with the Silicon Nitride balls that Kerrin (and others) mentioned a few posts back.  I've got a few on order and we'll see how they work out :)  I decided to go that direction rather than the softer Nitrile balls.  One reason is that I've already drilled the holes, and advice is that if you go with the softer balls you need to make the hole slightly undersized.  I'm too late for that!  So I'll give the super-hard ones a try.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2020, 12:39:11 AM
I’ve got a couple of parts for my update today.  First, we have completing the link for the hand pump.

I’d just rounded off the ends using filing buttons last week.  So, this week, I set it up in the mill and used a slitting saw to make two cuts to remove a chunk leaving a 1/8” wide slot on each side:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/053b-HandPumpLink-1-DSC_7263.jpg)

And here’s the final part:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/053b-HandPumpLink-2-DSC_7265.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
After completing the link, I went back to considering how to attach the screen on the Suction Valve.  My previous attempts at soft soldering didn’t go to well.  I just couldn’t get the solder to adhere to the screen.  I think the problem is that I was unable to get the screen hot enough without scorching the flux, so the solder would never adhere.  Usually, you can heat up one side of the metal and the other side gets hot enough to do the job.  But with the screen, it doesn’t work that way.  Plus, I was very worried bout melting the screen.

So, in the end, I went with making a cap to go over the end of the suction valve to hold the screen.

I started with 7/8” brass rod (360).  I used a series of drills to make a hole about .2” deep, then bored it out to 19/32” to match the bottom of the suction valve.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-1-DSC_7248.jpg)

Then I bored a .75” hole .125” deep, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-2-DSC_7250.jpg)

Just big enough for the big end of the suction valve to fit into:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-3-DSC_7251.jpg)

Then cut it off 5/32” long, leaving me a 1/32” thick lip all around the edge to hold the screen in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-4-DSC_7254.jpg)

With that done, I drilled and tapped a hole for a #0-80 screw to hold the screen retainer in place.  I was going to do two, but once I got there, I figured 1 would be plenty!  It’s not like its going to be under a lot of stress.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-5-DSC_7259.jpg)

I got a bright shiny screen out of the bag of 100 that I’d got off Amazon and used that in the final assembly.  And here’s out it turned out:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/054a-HandPumpScreenRetainer-6-DSC_7260.jpg)

This is a deviation from Kozo’s plans, but I think it turned out mighty nice looking!  And this way I can change the screen if it gets too clogged from excessive use! (yeah right :))

With that, I am calling the Suction Valve assembly complete.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 27, 2020, 01:09:55 AM
That came out great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2020, 01:11:04 AM
Thanks Chris!  I think this was your idea, so you should take credit :)
Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on July 27, 2020, 01:12:52 AM
that looks good
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2020, 01:13:10 AM
Chapter 8.7 – Lever

My last part for today was the Lever for the hand pump.

This was made from a piece of 1/8”x1/2” 303 Stainless flat bar.  First operation was to chuck it in the 4 jaw and center it as best I could, face it, then cut a 3/4" length down to 5/16” diameter:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/055a-HandPumpLever-1-DSC_7268.jpg)

Back to the mill to cut to length, then add 2 pivot holes – reamed to 1/8”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/055a-HandPumpLever-2-DSC_7270.jpg)

After shaving 1/32” off each side (to bring the width down to 7/16”, per the plan), I used 3/32” spacers on the narrow end and milled each side to an angle.  To get 3/32” I used a stack of feeler gauges (on the back side) and a 3/32” slitting saw (on the front).  A bit unusual, but that’s what I could find for 3/32” spacers!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/055a-HandPumpLever-3-DSC_7271.jpg)

Lastly, I rounded the narrow end using files & some 1/4” filing buttons and it was complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/055a-HandPumpLever-4-DSC_7274.jpg)

Here’s a pump family shot.  Only a few more parts to go, like the handle and some pivot pins!  But I’m getting close to completing the hand pump (believe it or not).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/055a-HandPumpLever-5-DSC_7275.jpg)

Thanks for visiting my shop today!  (and for maintaining an acceptable social distance :)).
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2020, 01:13:52 AM
that looks good
Thanks John!
You were part of this solution too.  I appreciate the input!  And the results speak for themselves :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 27, 2020, 12:29:55 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Top notch work! The cup / screws for screen retention look great and make it serviceable, which is a great feature, I think.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2020, 04:57:42 AM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 28, 2020, 07:15:52 AM
Nice work Kim.

Coming on very nicely.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2020, 04:59:13 AM
Thank you Kerrin!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2020, 10:21:04 PM
Chapter 8.8 – Handle

Today made the Lever handle for the pump.  The handle consists of two pieces, a 5/16” bar, for the handle, and a short length of 7/16” tube to connect the handle to the lever.

I started by making the tube.  I made it, because I couldn’t find (or justify the cost of) 1” of SS tubing, 7/16” OD, and 5/16” ID.   And it was easy enough to make.  I started with 1/2” 303 SS round rod.  In the lathe I drilled a 7/16” hole just a tad over 1” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/056a-HandPumpHandle-1-DSC_7277.jpg)

Then I cut it off at 1”.  That was easy.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/056a-HandPumpHandle-2-DSC_7280.jpg)

For the handle, I cut a ~5.5” length and faced both ends off in the lathe. Then holding it in the square collet block I drilled a #29 hole 3/4" back from one end (#29 being just over 1/8”, something on the order of 0.136”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/056a-HandPumpHandle-3-DSC_7283.jpg)

And used a slitting saw to cut the 1/8” slot up to that hole.  Here I’m almost done cutting the lower edge of the slot.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/056a-HandPumpHandle-4-DSC_7284.jpg)

Here are the two pieces that form the handle.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/056a-HandPumpHandle-5-DSC_7288.jpg)

With this, I used green 638 Loctite to glue the tube around the slotted end of the handle, and it was done!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
Chapter 8.9 – Pins

There are three pins required for the hand pump.  Two for the link and one for the plunger.

They were all made the same way out of 1/8” round 303 SS stock.

I started by cutting 3 short lengths for the pins.  This may seem odd – why not just use the long parent stock and cut them off as they are done?  Well, because my parent stock was 4’ long.  And when you have 3’ of 1/8” rod sticking out of the headstock of the lathe, it starts whipping around pretty good when its turning.  So, I chose to just use short bits.  It turns out about the same in the end.

Taking one of the pins, I put it in the 1/8” collet chuck, faced it and chamfered the end with a file.  Then, using the Warner grooving tool (1/64”) I cut a groove for the e-clip.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/057a-HandPumpPins-1-DSC_7290.jpg)

After that, I flipped the pin around, faced to length, and cut a groove in that end, just like before.

Doing that process three times resulted in this:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/057a-HandPumpPins-2-DSC_7292.jpg)

With the pins completed, last part for the hand pump was a spring, and I’d already had made appropriately sized springs before (back when I built a pump to pressure test my steam tractor boiler! :) ), so I didn't do that here.

My final task for the pump, before final assembly, was to form the ball-seats.  A few posts back people were giving advice on how to do the ball seats and what material worked best for them for the balls.  I chose to go the route of the Si Nitride balls (super hard).  I ordered a pack of 50 of these off Amazon. Using these Si Nitride balls, I put one on each seat, gave it a gentle whack. Before assembling, I did look and make sure that I could see a visible ‘seat’ in each location, and I did.  You can see the Si Nitride balls used here.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/057a-HandPumpPins-3-DSC_7294.jpg)

And here’s a shot that shows the handle removed:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/057a-HandPumpPins-4-DSC_7296.jpg)

And the pump fully assembled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/057a-HandPumpPins-5-DSC_7297.jpg)


Now, for the final test – does it pump water?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRfJuTf9-Q

Yup, it works!  It’s a little stiff in it's movement so I’m going have to work on that.  But it pumps and water comes out :)

Thanks for checking in!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 09, 2020, 10:46:50 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 10, 2020, 09:50:52 PM
Yet another box ticked off - nice progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on August 11, 2020, 04:25:25 AM
Hi Kim.  I've following along since you began, just haven't been saying much.  I look forward to your posts, something interesting every time!

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2020, 05:50:07 AM
Thanks CNR, Admiral, and Joe!  Appreciate the comments  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 11, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
Now just hope you never need to use it.   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2020, 05:16:10 AM
   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 16, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Having completed the hand pump, it is time to mount it in place, inside the tender tank:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/058a-DrainPipe-1-DSC_7300.jpg)

You don’t see it with the manhole cover on, but when you flip the lid open you can connect the handle and pump away!  Pretty cool, eh?  That Kozo is one cleaver fellow!

Now we start the piping for the tender.  This is the last part of the tender.  After the piping work, it will be on to the engine! :)  I still have to paint the tank which I’ll do after I complete the piping, but I think I’ll get to start the engine this year!  (Its good to have goals, right?)


Chapter 9.1 – Drain Pipe, Drain Plug, Suction Stud, Delivery Stud, Suction Strainer and Nut

Kozo packs a lot of items into this one section.  Granted, they are all fairly simple, but there’s a bunch of them!  We’ll start with the drain pipe.  As the name might imply, this is for emptying the water out of the tender.

The drain pipe fitting is turned from a piece of 5/8” hex brass.  Here I’ve drilled & tapped it 10-32 (for the drain plug, of course), shaped the bottom and am now cutting it off the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/058a-DrainPipe-2-DSC_7302.jpg)

Next I drilled and tapped the mounting holes, then cut a length of 3/16” brass tubing for the drain pipe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/058a-DrainPipe-3-DSC_7305.jpg)
I’ll silver solder those parts together later.  It’s too stinking hot out there for me to open the garage door!

And that was about all I could take in the shop as it was getting too hot, even with the door closed!    (It stays a lot cooler with the door closed, but it still gets hot!).

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 27, 2020, 09:28:01 PM
First up was to silver solder the drain pipe assembly:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7307.jpg)

Here’s the after shot, just ready for some time in the pickle!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7309.jpg)

Now to the Plug for the drain.  This was a fairly simple turn from 5/16” hex brass.  I used a center since it was so long, but now its time to take off the nub on the end.  I cut part way with the Warner grooving tool, then stopped and used a hacksaw the rest of the way.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7310.JPG)

Then I threaded the end 10-32, to screw into the Drain.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7314.jpg)

After cutting the plug off from the parent stock, here are the two drain pieces – the drain pipe and the plug:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7316.jpg)

Next up is the Suction Stud, and the Delivery Stud.  These provide attachment points for the piping to the axle mounted water pump (the Suction Stud), and the output from the hand pump (Delivery Stud).

These were made from 1/2" hex 303 Stainless.  As it turns out, I’d intended to make the drain from stainless too, but mis-read my notes so ended up making them from 360 brass.  I think I’ve got enough extra material to cover this, but the brass is like 40-50% more expensive than the stainless, so I tried to go with SS when possible.

On the lathe I drilled the center hole, took down the end to 5/16”, and then used a 5/16”-24 die to make threads to attach piping later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7317.jpg)

After cutting off from the parent stock to the appropriate length, I moved over to the mill and drilled the outlet hole in the side. Coper tubing will be soldered in place here eventually.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7318.jpg)

And here are the completed Drain and Delivery Studs.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/059a-PlugAndStuds-DSC_7321.jpg)

And that was my Saturday shop time!  Sorry its taken most of the week to get around to posting!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 27, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
Some more great parts!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 28, 2020, 12:36:21 AM
Hi Kim

I neglected to comment on your finished pump, it turned out great!
You continue to turn out very nice work.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 28, 2020, 05:41:14 AM
Thanks Chris and Dave!  :cheers:
Appreciate the kind comments.

Slow, but slowly, piece by piece, I'm moving along.  Eventually, I'll have a completed tender! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 02, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
Splendid little pump  :praise2:  :praise2: I'm still there in the background  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 02, 2020, 11:08:51 PM
Thanks for the support, Roger! :)  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
I’m getting slow about posting updates, but I guess it worked out this week.  The air quality is so bad in our area due to the wildfires that I’ve decided not to go out to my shop.  It’s fairly well insulated from the outside, but not as well as inside the house.  Also, we’ve had the garage doors up over the week for various reasons.  My wife (who has a much keener sense of smell than I do) says she can smell the smoke in the garage, but not in the house.  So, I’ve decided not to work out in the shop till the air quality gets better.  I’ve had significant issues with my sinuses over the years and don’t need anything more to exacerbate it.  (Thus, the issue with my sense of smell mentioned above :/)

My particular area is not in immediate danger from the fires, but the air is really bad. The sky glows yellow/orange and the air quality is in the hazardous zone.  I don’t remember it ever being this bad here.  I don’t mean to complain so much about the air quality; lets remember that many hundreds of thousands of people in Oregon have been evacuated or are on standby to be evacuated and many thousands have lost their homes and everything in them to the fires.  And my inconvenience is that I have to put up with bad air…

Anyway, all that to say I’m going to spend my day inside posting updates rather than working out in the shop.  And this will let me catch up.

After the Suction and Delivery studs, I made the Suction Strainer.  This is nothing more than a fancy nut that screws onto the Suction Stud, holding it in place on the bottom of the tender and straining the water that will get sucked out by the axle pump.

The Suction Strainer was made from 5/8” 303 Stainless Hex bar.

Here I’ve drilled & tapped the strainer and cut a 45o angle on the end. Now I’m cutting it off the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/060a-SucctionStrainer-01-DSC_7326.jpg)

And here I’ve flipped it around in the collet, faced it off flat and cut a 45o taper inside.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/060a-SucctionStrainer-02-DSC_7327.jpg)

With the basic shaping done, I drilled and tapped a few holes (#0-80) as screen retention method (I tried soldering the screen again, with equally pore results on soldering a screen as last time  :headscratch:)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/060a-SucctionStrainer-03-DSC_7330.jpg)

And here is the completed suction strainer and an additional nut I made (from 3/8” 303 stainless hex).  The strainer is the nut to hold the suction stud in place, and the plan 3/8” nut will hold the “Delivery Stud” in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/060a-SucctionStrainer-04-DSC_7333.jpg)

That completes all the parts for the section 9.1 – Drain Pipe, Drain Plug, Suction Stud, Delivery Stud, Suction Strainer and Nut.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2020, 06:05:43 PM
Chapter 9.2 – Nipple Joints and Nipples

The next section of the piping work is to make all the nipples.  Two of these are “Nipple Joints” and will be used as one end of the attachment to some rubber tubing used to provide a flexible water connection between the tender and the engine.  The other two are just standard nipples for metal-to-metal connection.

Staring with one of the nipple joints, these were made from 5/16” round 360 brass. I started by making the 45o face on one end of the joint – this end mates with the joining tube connection, and will be pulled up tight (metal to metal) with a union nut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-01-DSC_7336.jpg)

The back side has a 30o slope and matches with the inside of the Union nut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-02-DSC_7337.jpg)

Then it was cut off.  The long section on the back side is 3/16” diameter and will fit inside of the plastic tubing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-03-DSC_7334.jpg)

I made two of these nipple joints (with small deltas in dimensions). I also made two nipples, which are essentially the same thing but with a much shorter back side since they will simply be soldered to the coper tube rather than fit inside of plastic tubing.


Chapter 9.3 – Union Nuts

The Union Nuts are quite simple and I made four of these, one for each nipple made above.

The union nuts are made from 3/8” hex brass.  I drilled #12 through (just barely larger than 3/16”) and then followed that with a drill and tap for 5/16”-24 threads, 1/4” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-04-DSC_7340.jpg)

Then I cut off the Union Nut at 5/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-05-DSC_7342.jpg)

And here’s a shot of all the nipples and union nuts:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/061a-NippleJoints-06-DSC_7344.jpg)

Nearing the end of the little piping pieces!

Thanks for looking in as I catchup on my build.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mark S on September 20, 2020, 01:52:08 PM
Hi Kim, my name is Mark S and I've been looking at your posts for a while because I am making an A3 switcher too. I live in Bristol, UK. This is my first comment because I have just started making the handrail and I really like your ideas on how to make the feet. I bought some 1/2" hex 303 stainless bar because I thought it might be easier to hold. I think your bobbin idea for filing the end radii is inspired, so thank you for your excellent posts and please continue   :D
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2020, 08:31:29 PM
Thanks, Mark!
That's very kind of you to say :)
I can't take credit for filing buttons.  That's something I learned from the kind people of this forum. They have been incredibly helpful in my learning this hobby of model engineering!

I'd love to see some pictures of your build.  You should post what you're doing so we can compare notes!  Besides, you'll be passing me soon, I'm sure.  I move at a snail's pace. A very determined snail, mind you, but I do make progress!

Also, it would be great to get a quick introductory post from you over in the "Introduce Yourself" board.  That way everyone can get to know who you are, what you're interests are, and where you are from.  This is a great site (as you probably already know).  People are quick to help out and we are generally a non-contfontational lot.

Looking forward to seeing more about your A3 build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2020, 08:36:46 PM
Today I completed the remainder of the little parts needed for the tender piping.


Chapter 9.4 – Pipe Tip

This pipe tip is a simple brass tube designed to fit over one end of the 5/32” copper tubing used for the hand pump water delivery to the boiler.  It’s a short length of 3/16” 360 brass rod with a hold drilled to fit the end of the pipe.  Here its had the holes drilled and is ready to be cut off.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-1-DSC_7347.jpg)

And now, the completed part.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-2-DSC_7349.jpg)



Chapter 9.5 – Pipe Clamps and Tube Clamps

Next I made the pipe and tube clamps.  These were cut from 1/4" wide strips of 0.040” brass sheet. The edges were cleaned up and then they were bent to shape and drilled.  I shaped them using the vise, brass hammer, and various sized round pieces of steel to act as a form to bend them around.  Here’s one of the tube clamps that’s been shaped, but I haven’t cut off the extra length yet (or drilled the second hole).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-5-DSC_7355.jpg)

After drilling the holes, I used filing buttons to round off the ends. This is one of the pipe holders.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-6-DSC_7354.jpg)

And here’s all four tube clamps and the two pipe clamps completed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-7-DSC_7356.jpg)



Chapter 9.6 – Rubber Tubes

Last up for today is the rubber tubing.  This tube will span between the tender and the engine, providing some flexibility to the water connections.  Kozo’s plans show the tubing encased in mesh sheathing to help the tubes withstand the water pressure and provide a measure of protection from any hot ash that might land on the hoses.  I obtained the mesh from some old coax cable I had sitting around.  I cut the connector off one end, cut a length of the coax, carefully split and removed the insulation, then compressed the ground sheath so it would slide off the inner part of the coax.  The particular coax I used also had a piece of foil wrapped around the outside of the mesh ground sheath to help insulate the signal.  I just removed that.  You can see the parts here – from bottom to top:  origin coax, with a piece cut out, outer insulation (slit so it could be removed and discarded), foil wrap (discarded), ground sheath, inner insulation and signal wire (discarded).  The piece I’m after is the mesh ground sheath.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-3-DSC_7351.jpg)

Then I cut lengths of /16” ID rubber tubing.   The top one is a piece of the mesh ground sheath, ready to use.  Just below it is the rubber tube that will slip inside.  Below that is the second tube, already inserted inside the mesh.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/062a-TipClampsTubes-4-DSC_7352.jpg)

These mesh-sheath/rubber-tube assemblies will be held together using the tube clamps made above.

That’s it for today!  Next step will be the actual copper tubing.

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on September 20, 2020, 08:45:35 PM
Looking Good Kim :ThumbsUp:         Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
Thanks Terry!   :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2020, 07:49:04 PM
Today I installed the piping on the tender.

Chapter 9.7 – Bending a Copper Tube

I started by cutting the copper tubing and silver soldering it to the various fittings. This is the suction output for the axel driven water pump, after soldering:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-01-DSC_7361.jpg)

As I got ready to solder the next one (the hand pump output) the part slid off my soldering hearth and dropped to the floor.  I searched and searched for it but couldn’t find it.  And it wasn’t even that small of a piece!  Frustrated at having spent more time searching than it would have taken me to remake the part and still coming up empty-handed, I went ahead, bit the bullet, and remade the part. I guess this is why we love hobbies, right?  :wallbang:

Anyway, I remade the part soldered it up, and soldered the pipe tip to the other end, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-02-DSC_7364.jpg)

The more complex piping was to connect the hand pump to the discharge stud.  I made a little jig to bend the pipe and proceeded to bend it up.  Here’ I’m getting ready to solder the nipple to one end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-03-DSC_7366.jpg)

And in this pic, I’ve just completed soldering the nipple to the other end.  And yes, I DID remember to put the union nuts on the tube BEFORE I soldered the last end in place (this was one of my big fears!).  But luckily, I remembered – you can see them pushed to the far end of the tube there.  I even got them on in the correct orientation! (Just a little too smug, isn’t he?  ^-^)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-04-DSC_7368.jpg)

While those parts were soaking in the pickle, I marked and drilled the holes for the pipe hold-down clamps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-05-DSC_7371.jpg)

Then tapped them 2-56 (using my favorite little tap handle).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-06-DSC_7373.jpg)

And here’s a shot of the completed underside piping.  The lower one is the “suction” output for the axel pump, and the upper one is the hand pump output.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-07-DSC_7377.jpg)

And here’s the top-side showing the connection from the pump to the output stud.   You can also see the suction cover for the axle pump output just behind the hand pump and below the copper tube.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-08-DSC_7380.jpg)

Now for the beauty shots with the whole tender family. This is a shot of the undercarriage showing the drain and the rest of the pipe work.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-10-DSC_7389.jpg)

And one from the front showing the completed tender.  The only thing missing here is the headlight, which will be added later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/063a-TenderPiping-09-DSC_7384.jpg)

Oh yeah, and the paint.  That’ll be my next task, to paint over all that pretty brass and copper. :)

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on September 27, 2020, 08:43:17 PM
Lovely work Kim :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 27, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
Very well done!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 28, 2020, 12:36:13 AM
Looks great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on September 28, 2020, 04:05:07 AM
Just beautiful.  A pity to cover it all with paint.

Just needs a light cut and some polish.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2020, 05:45:03 AM
Terry, Chris, Dave, and MJM,
Thank you all for your kind comments :)  :cheers:

Yes, it is kind-of sad to cover it in paint, but that's what's going to happen.  I made the decision long ago and I'm actually quite excited to see how it will look when fully painted.   :cartwheel:


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 28, 2020, 11:20:36 AM
Major achievement to finish the tender Kim. Well done!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on September 28, 2020, 12:40:00 PM
 Major milestone achieved! :cartwheel:      Looking forward to more.

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2020, 05:34:35 PM
Thanks CNR and Joe!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2020, 11:56:53 PM
I don’t usually get time during the week to play in my shop.  But this week, I’m taking some vacation days.  It’s a use-it-or-lose-it situation, so I’m opting to use it :)  With the Covid situation and all, any of my standard type vacations were canceled for one reason or another, so I find myself with a few weeks to use before the end of the year.  So I’m going to be taking some time off over the next few months.  What fun! :)

Anyway, on with the shop update.

Chapter 9.8 - Assembling the Tender (Powder Coating the Tank)

This week, I started painting the tank.  If you’ll recall, I have already powder coated the wheels, trucks and frames.  So now I’m working on the tank.  But that’s a lot of parts!
First step, of course, was to disassemble the tank to the units that will be painted.  I chose to leave some pieces together for painting if it seemed unlikely that they’d need to come apart again during construction or use, like the riser for the headlamp – I’m painting the cover separately since it has to come off to mount the headlamp. But the riser will stay put.  I left several other pieces like that together for painting too.  Here are the disassembled parts:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-1-DSC_7393.jpg)


I started with the tank itself because I was most worried about that part fitting in the oven!  But I made it work :)  Here it is, ready for powder coating, following a thorough cleaning.  You can see the grounding lug clipped to one of the screws I’m using to support the tank.  You’ll also notice that I covered the oven rack with aluminum foil, so it didn’t come out black.  And there’s some scrap pieces of plate under the supporting screws to keep them from poking through the foil.  Seemed to work out OK.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-2-DSC_7397.jpg)


And here we are with the coating of powder, ready for popping in the oven!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-3-DSC_7400.jpg)


After taking it out of the oven I was a little disappointed because the sides didn’t get very good coverage.  It’s pretty easy to see that in this picture.  The sides aren’t that big of a deal because they will have a cover plate over them.  The really sad part is that the underside of the verge around the horseshoe didn’t get a very good coating either. You can’t see that due to the lighting, but believe me, in person with good lighting, it’s very visible. :(
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-4-DSC_7402.jpg)


After my initial disappointment, I decided to do a second coat right away.  It’s hard to get good coverage in those little nooks and crannies with the powder gun.   But I tried again.  And after the 2nd time in the easy-bake oven, I’m much more satisfied.  You can still see a little coverage problem right along the bottom edge, but in addition to not being overly noticeable, I don’t care because it will be covered by the side plates.  And the under-verge part came out very nice!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-5-DSC_7403.jpg)


Just another shot because it’s so fun!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-6-DSC_7404.jpg)


And last, but not least for today, is the tank baseplate cooling after its time baking. (The weird silver thing above the base plate is the foil-wrapped oven rack that it's wired to.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064a-PowderCoatingTender-7-DSC_7407.jpg)

That’s it for today. It was starting to get hot out in the garage and I wanted to come in for lunch.  So, there you have it.  Hopefully, I’ll get the rest of it covered tomorrow.

Thanks for looking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 30, 2020, 12:22:01 AM
Excellent work Kim, I am all caught up on your thread you have some amazing work going on in it...... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2020, 12:25:37 AM
Thank you Don!
I may not move quickly, but I just keep plugging away!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 30, 2020, 11:57:04 AM
Excellent progress  :praise2:  :praise2:  I hadn't thought up until now that the pipe from the tender hand pump has to carry full boiler pressure  :headscratch: Obvious once you know  ::)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2020, 10:10:34 PM
Completed painting the parts for the tender today.

Here’s another tray of parts just out of the oven:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064b-PowderCoatingTender-1-DSC_7412.jpg)

And the final parts – the side panels.  These will have the lettering on them eventually.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064b-PowderCoatingTender-2-DSC_7415.jpg)

And here’s the family shot of all the painted parts, before assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064b-PowderCoatingTender-3-DSC_7422.jpg)

Based on more excellent advice from the fine people of this forum, I’ve now ordered the following image cut in white vinyl.  This will be the lettering for the side panels of the tender.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/064b-PowderCoatingTender-Lettering.JPG)

Hopefully that should get here in a week or so, then we’ll see how it all works, eh?

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 30, 2020, 11:06:53 PM
Top notch paintjob Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2020, 05:35:18 AM
Thank you CNR!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on October 01, 2020, 07:38:06 AM
 Nice work Kim.

The first steam up is getting closer!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 01, 2020, 01:02:17 PM
My powder gun is dual voltage, with supposedly the lower voltage best for getting into the tight spots.  Yours turned out great with two coats.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2020, 06:31:51 PM
Thanks Kerrin!

My powder gun is dual voltage, with supposedly the lower voltage best for getting into the tight spots.  Yours turned out great with two coats.

Yes, mine has a dual voltage switch also.  Do you find that helps?

The little pamphlet that comes with the unit says the higher voltage may be required for larger parts, and since this was a fairly large part, I was using the higher voltage in this case.  That may have been incorrect.  However, I have found that those tight spots like that are hard to get in regardless of the voltage I use.  In some cases, that little deflector piece that fits over the tip can help, but not always.  I've found (in my very limited experience) that the best thing is just to make sure the air doesn't blast coming out of the gun or it will remove more powder than it deposites.  I try to keep the gun far back and use low pressure, or not point directly at the thing I'm coating, just close by.

I do find it hard to tell when I've got a good-enough coating, but not too much.

But my technique is improving!

Thanks KVOM,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
I’ve got the tender re-assembled after painting but the vinyl lettering hasn’t arrived yet.  So, while I’m waiting I went ahead and started on the engine! :)

Chapter 10.1 – Side Frames

As with the tender, we’ll start the engine by making the frame.  And the first element of the frame are the sides.  These will be made from 1-1/4" x 1/4" 1018 bar (cold rolled steel).  Since there are some fairly sizable chunks to be taken out of the frames it will undoubtedly go banana on me and have to be straightened out.   But to help minimize the bananazation of these rather long parts, I did some stress relief with a good heating, then letting them cool slowly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065a_EngineSideFrames-1-DSC_7425.jpg)


The left and right sides are symmetrical in many of their features so I double sticky-taped the two sides together. However, it is important to note that the two sides are NOT identical.  So, the trick will be to make sure I poke all the holes and cut all the notches that need to line up while the sides are together, but NOT do any of the asymmetrical work until they are separated.  Let’s see if I can actually do that!

Here's the parts taped together and marked up for machining.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065a_EngineSideFrames-2-DSC_7430.jpg)


After indicating them in on the mill, I trimmed both ends square, and to exact length.  The complicating factor here was to get the full travel required for this part, I had to remove the power X-drive off the table.  At the extreme end of travel it was hitting part of the DRO fixturing and limiting the last few inches of movement of the table (something I’d never noticed before).  So I took he power drive off for this operation.  It’s not hard to re-attach when needed.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065a_EngineSideFrames-3-DSC_7434.jpg)

After making them the correct length, I drilled, tapped and countersunk 3 places in the sides so they could be screwed together.  Kozo has already done the work of finding 3 places that won’t screw anything else up, so I went ahead and used his locations.  I considered skipping this since I’ve had good luck with the double-sided sticky tape, but decided to take the belt and suspenders approach  ;)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065a_EngineSideFrames-4-DSC_7440.jpg)

And finally, I spent many hours calculating the exact location for all the symmetrical holes and just where to drill to get the rounded corners in the cut-outs, then drilling them.  Following this, I made some slots as places to get the hacksaw blade in place so I can cut out the chunks.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065a_EngineSideFrames-5-DSC_7444.jpg)

But the actual work of sawing will have to wait till next time…

Ah… the anticipation! :)
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 04, 2020, 10:20:12 PM
Hi Kim

I'm curious what happened to the old limit switch?  :lolb:
Nice start on the engine frame.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2020, 10:24:12 PM
Hey Dave,
Yeah, I've wondered that too.  It was labeled that way when I got it from Grizzly.  Maybe its clearly labeled so they didn't send out the Old one anymore?  I dunno, but it does make one curious!  :naughty:

Thanks Dave,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gary.a.ayres on October 15, 2020, 11:20:43 PM
Wonderful fabrication work on that tank. Must have taken great skill and concentration to get everything to line up!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2020, 06:18:35 AM
Wonderful fabrication work on that tank. Must have taken great skill and concentration to get everything to line up!

Thanks Gary!
Skill? I'm not so sure, but what I lack in skill I make up for in persistence.  Just look at my reject bin!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2020, 10:12:05 PM
This is a late update from last weekend.  I made some progress on the side frames.

While I still had the parts dialed in on the mill, I used a 1/8” mill to cut the straight sides of the internal opening toward the front of the piece.  This opening will be used by the steam-Tee for the cylinders eventually.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-1-DSC_7446.jpg)

After that I cut the big chunks out of the frames using the band saw. Here’s where I expected things to go all banannas.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-2-DSC_7449.jpg)

But my stress relieving exercise must have really paid off because I didn’t get any warping as I’d expected. Either that, or I just got lucky - I’m going with the former! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-3-DSC_7454.jpg)

Next I wanted to finish up the steam-Tee opening.  The front part is cut at 45o.  So I centered up the RT using a co-axial indicator – this was fun!  You can count the number of times I’ve used that on one hand and still have fingers left over 😊
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-4-DSC_7455.jpg)

Then I clamped the sides on the RT with the point of the 45o centered on the RT.  After getting it dialed in to completely horizontal, I used the RT to go up and down by 45o and cut between my holes.  This worked really well!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-5-DSC_7460.jpg)

And here’s the results of my morning’s work:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065b_EngineSideFrames-6-DSC_7463.jpg)

Doesn’t seem like much, but that chewed up my whole shop time for last weekend.  Hoping I can finish up the side frames this weekend.  We’ll see!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 17, 2020, 09:42:00 PM
Ahhhhhh! A man and his tools....... just looking in Kim good to see some nice work happening..... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 18, 2020, 12:12:19 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 18, 2020, 06:19:43 AM
Thank you Don and Cnr,
Appreciate the encouraging comments!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2020, 09:19:03 PM
Well, my lettering finally showed up so this weekend (now last weekend  :o) I applied it to the tender. 

Adding Lettering to the Tank

Here’s what the sheets looked like when they arrived.  I ordered double what I needed, so seemed well worth having a spare.  It added less than a dollar to the whole thing – most of the cost was their setup & prep work, plus shipping I’m sure.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-1-DSC_7464.jpg)

I started by washing the false sides VERY carefully with mild soap.  I didn’t want to use anything harsh like acetone (which I often use for cleaning before silver soldering) because I’ve found that it will take the nice new look off the powder coat.  It doesn’t remove it, but it doesn’t look as nice and semi-glossy as before. So, I didn’t do that :)

I cut the two sections apart and position one of them in EXACTLY the place I wanted it.  The two little pieces of blue tape are to hold it in place.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-2-DSC_7466.jpg)

Next, I took a long piece of tape and placed it along the top to act as a hinge.  After removing the two little pieces of tape that were holding it in place, I was able to flip the lettering up and remove the backing from the vinyl.  I had to be careful here or the little serifs would want to come off with the backing.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-3-DSC_7468.jpg)

After the backing was removed, I flipped it back down and used a burnishing tool to rub all the lettering so the adhesive would adhere to the black paint.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-4-DSC_7470.jpg)

Then I simply peeled off the transfer tape – except by ‘simply’ I mean I carefully removed it a smidge at a time because the little serif edges and other parts REALLY wanted to come off with the transfer tape.  I finally got there, but it was a lot harder than they showed on their video!  I’m thinking that’s because in the video they were making a big sign and the strokes on the letters were an inch wide. Anyway, I got it off, and the lettering looks pretty good.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-5-DSC_7473.jpg)

After doing that to both sides I sprayed a clear coat over the whole thing.  My hope is that the clear coat will help protect the letters and keep them from coming up as easily.  Guess we’ll see.
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-6-DSC_7475.jpg)

With the lettering done and the clear coat in place, it was time for final assembly and some beauty shots!
(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-7-DSC_7480.jpg)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/066a-TenderLettering-8-DSC_7486.JPG)

I’m quite pleased with how it came out!

OK, now just the engine to go! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 23, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
Fantastic Tender Kim  :ThumbsUp:   one to be very proud off  :cheers:  and the lettering is just the final touch  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 23, 2020, 09:26:59 PM
Beautiful!!!

What did you use for the clear coat?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 23, 2020, 09:36:31 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

So now you've got the tough bit done, the engine should be a piece of cake, eh?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2020, 09:48:55 PM
Thanks Per!
Yes, the lettering really makes it stand out, doesn't it? :)

Thanks Chris!
I've been fond of the Krylon Acrylic "Crystal Clear".  They also have a matte finish that I like for some things, but I didn't want this to be matte - more of a semi-gloss kind of look.

Yes, Cnr,
Now I've only got the easy half to go... or is it the easy 3/4?  Sure, I've got WAY more than half to go, but I'm pretty excited about it still!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 23, 2020, 09:52:30 PM
Beautiful Kim!
I bet that you are super pleased with the finished tender.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2020, 11:46:05 PM
Thanks Dave!
Yes, I'm quite pleased with it!
Of course, I see all the things that I did wrong or would do better next time, but that's what it's all about, right?  If I wasn't learning and improving, what would be the fun?
But when I stand back and look at it, I'm really happy with it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on October 23, 2020, 11:49:23 PM
That turned out great :cheers:  Looking forward to the next bits!

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Johnmcc69 on October 24, 2020, 12:43:54 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Looks great Kim! A beautiful piece in itself, the tender.
 Looking forward to the loco build. You've really developed your skills in
Model making.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: "2 snaps up" :)
 :popcorn:
 John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 24, 2020, 06:26:02 AM
Thank you Joe and John!
Appreciate your kind comments  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on October 24, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
Looking really good Kim :ThumbsUp:      Are you doing Elvis impressions singing "love me tender"?   :facepalm2:       Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 24, 2020, 05:31:20 PM
That's a groaner  :Jester: 

Thanks Terry!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 24, 2020, 06:56:50 PM
Nice job on the lettering Kim it’s looks awesome!..... :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on October 24, 2020, 08:23:23 PM
Wow Kim - just wonderful! Beautiful job!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 25, 2020, 04:32:27 AM
Thanks Don and Stuart  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2020, 11:50:48 PM
Over the weekend I was able to kind-of complete the side frames.  I say “kind-of” because I can’t fully finish it till am ready to separate the sides.  And I can’t separate the sides till I complete a couple of other pieces.  So full completion is a ways out yet.  But it's good progress regardless of how you slice it.

After completing the five-sided hole for the steam-tee, I started to clean up the cutouts for the wheel bearings.  The front one is fairly deep and we took a chunk out with the saw. All I have to do is clean up the sides and bottom to more precise dimensions with the mill.  I was very careful to leave the radius from the place where I'd drilled out the corners.  Just used some careful math and the DRO to accomplish that.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065c_EngineSideFrames-01-DSC_7477.jpg)

I wasn’t smart when putting the frame in place for the previous operation so had to reposition it to cut out the hole for the front support.  Here I’m using a 3/8” roughing mill to take out the bulk of the material (I didn’t bother to saw this little chunk out).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065c_EngineSideFrames-02-DSC_7489.jpg)

Then cleaned it up to more exact dimensions with a standard 3/8” mill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065c_EngineSideFrames-03-DSC_7492.jpg)

And finally, I cut the grooves on either side of the front cut out.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/065c_EngineSideFrames-04-DSC_7494.jpg)

And now, before I complete the sides, I need to make the parts that go over these two axle holders.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2020, 11:56:10 PM
Chapter 10.2 – Pedestal Braces

The first of these parts is for the front axles. The Pedestal Brace is the one on the left.  The taller nubbins on either side will fit into the grooves that I just milled in the frames.  The one on the right is the Rear Axel Box – that one will come later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-1-DSC_7497.jpg)

To start with, I took one of the pieces that I cut out of the frame – it is still double sticky-taped together, which is perfect.  I started by cutting the piece in two.  One part will be used to make these Pedestal Braces and the other part to do the Rear Axle Box.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-2-DSC_7499.jpg)

Using the longer piece, I milled it to the appropriate length and thickness, then cut shaped the part as shown in the diagram:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-3-DSC_7500.jpg)

Then drilled mounting holes.  I drilled them to the size I need for taping #3.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-4-DSC_7503.jpg)

After that, I flipped the parts over and fit them into the place they go on the frames. Using the mill vice to hold them in alignment, I drilled the mounting holds into the sides using the ones in the pedestal brace as a template.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-5-DSC_7507.jpg)

Then I took the pedestal brace and drilled the holes out for a close fit for a #3 and countersunk for the heads of the mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-6-DSC_7509.jpg)

And finally, tapped the holes in the side frames.  Here are the completed Pedestal Brace parts connected to the frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-7-DSC_7511.jpg)


I was starting on the Rear Axel Box next – I had the part milled to size and shaped, and was just starting to drill the mounting holes when I had an unfortunate accident. :(  As the drill broke through the bottom side of the part, I didn’t stop my quill action fast enough and heard a nasty grinding sound.  I’d run the chuck into the part. And it took a pretty good gouge out of the top of the piece too.  (see the semi-circular shape on the top of the piece?  That wasn’t intentional :()
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-8-DSC_7515.jpg)

I had “hoped” to complete this part before I stopped, but clearly, I was hurrying too much and this is the silly kind of stuff that happens when you hurry.  So, it was time to pack it in for the day.

I’m thinking about whether I can use the part anyway or not.   It's not like it will be seen, but one of the sides of the bearing holder will be shorter than the other by a few thou.  Is that bad? 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/067a-PedestalBrace-9-DSC_7496.jpg)

I was initially thinking I could just go ahead and use it. But now I’m worrying that if it is uneven then it might pinch the bearing some, which wouldn’t be good.

And if I’m going to re-do it, now’s the time!

Any helpful hints or suggestions?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 28, 2020, 11:19:15 AM
I can't see if it will be tightend against the missing bit or the two other flat faces where the screws will be - but this make a big difference ....

At least it's a smal and simple part you had the accident with and not one with a lot of work done to ....

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 28, 2020, 01:27:25 PM
Hi Kim, how about building up the gouged area with a bit of silver solder, then mill to the .379 dimension and finish the machining. I don't think the two top points see a lot of load, but it is probably a good idea to have metal there as Kozo intended.

(And set the drill further out in the chuck for the next one......)   :Lol:

Just food for thought.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 28, 2020, 03:37:18 PM
Hi Kim

If those two little surfaces don't contact anything I would be inclined to take a fuzz off all of them so they are all the same height and move on. If they do make contact and are part of the mechanical alignment, I would probably remake them.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 28, 2020, 05:05:45 PM
I would use larger pieces of stock and drill the 9/16" hole first, then remove the top.

Was your plan to use a rotary table?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2020, 05:16:10 PM
Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

Per, I'm also not sure what will be tight against what.  I'm kind of thinking that those peaks hit, but not the flats since the hole is 0.375 deep and the peaks are specified to be 0.379 tall.  So that would mean those peaks hit first and the flats won't ever quite meet.  And if the peaks aren't there, then it will squeeze the bearing.  And if this is true, then they should touch bottom, which means I shouldn't take a few thou off, because that's all the height difference I need.

So taking Dave's advice, I think I'll just re-do.  As was mentioned, at least they are fairly simple (and small) parts and won't take long to re-do.  I've certainly re-done much more complex items!  ::)

KVOM, the way Kozo shows is to attach these two parts where they belong, THEN drill the hole with it bolted in place.  That will give the half holes in both the frame sides and this rear axle holder piece.

Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm off to the shop to make it happen now!  I'll report back later.
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2020, 11:11:04 PM
Chapter 10.3 – Rear Axle Boxes

When I got out to the shop this morning a new idea came to me.  It’s basically what Dave said – shave off a bit of the top and go on.  But in addition to shaving off a bit of the top, I shaved off the same amount of the lower flats so I kept the depth the same.  What changed was the thickness of the attachment points.  And I don’t believe that dimension is critical.  It just has to be thick enough to hold the wheel bearing and axle in place and I figured a few thou less wouldn’t bother anyone.

So, I finished drilling the rest of the mounting holes then switch back to the cutter and shaved off a tad.  Turned out it took about 13-14 thousandths to clean up my little oopsie.  Then I shaved the same off the T-wings and we were good to go!  (That little tuft of white fluff is from the double-sided-sticky tape.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-1-DSC_7518.jpg)

Here’s what they look like sitting in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-2-DSC_7522.jpg)

And I took this shot with a paper slid under the edge of the T shape to show that there TRULY is that small gap that I’d said there should be.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-3-DSC_7520.jpg)

With the axle boxes in place, I drilled the tapping holes (#44) for the #3-48 threads.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-4-DSC_7523.jpg)

No pics of this, but I drilled out the through holes and countersunk them for the #3 flathead screws, tapped the threads, and screwed the parts together.

With that, I was ready to drill out the 9/16” hole for the axle.
To find the center I used a laser center finder that I picked up a few years back.  It’s nice, but I’ve found the uses for it more limited than I’d imagined. But it was great for this op!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-5-DSC_7526.jpg)

I step drilled the hole starting at 1/8” going up to 1/2".
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-6-DSC_7527.jpg)

I didn’t have a 35/64” drill bit that Kozo suggests.  My drill bit selection only goes up to 1/2”.  Beyond that, I’m limited to a cheap set of Silver & Deming bits that are only in 1/16” increments anyway.  So, I went with the boring head to open the hole up to just under 9/16”.  The finish isn’t so great, but that’s OK.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-7-DSC_7533.jpg)

Because I’m following it up with a 9/16” reamer anyway!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-8-DSC_7536.jpg)

And here are the completed Rear Axle Boxes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/068a-RearAxleBoxes-9-DSC_7539.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by and for all your help!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 28, 2020, 11:31:43 PM
Looks good Kim, nice save!
I also have one of the laser center tools, and like you have found limited use for it. What I have found that it excels at, is picking up scribe lines and center punch marks. Actually if you are picking up scribe lines there really is no need to center punch too.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2020, 12:25:46 AM
Thanks Dave!

Interesting that you've had the same experience as me on the laser center. I attributed its lack of use to my inexperience.  I've used it some, but it just isn't as repeatable as a standard offset edge finder.  But your right, it does work well for picking up scribe lines!  Not sure it was worth the price for just that, but since I have it, I use it from time to time :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: pmerritt on October 29, 2020, 04:54:24 AM
Hi Kim,

Really wonderful work here. What impresses me even more are you’re detailed progress reports and photos. I don’t have the discipline to take notes much less photos and write ups we all benefit from! I also appreciate how you show us all how you work through the mistakes. Inspirational. Kudos!!

Peter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 29, 2020, 12:52:42 PM
Good job.  I had forgotten that the large version uses different axle boxes and I didn't recognize that part.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2020, 05:19:50 PM
Thank you Peter!

Kvom,
So you made the 1.5" scale version?  I didn't realize that!  This one is going to be plenty big and heavy.  I can't imagine doing the 1.5".  It must weigh several hundred pounds!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 29, 2020, 06:54:27 PM
I had steel boiler made (not copper), bought 2 injectors vs. axle pump, and purchased oiler, blowdown valves, sight glass, etc.  Purchased a tender body (not the slant back).  Horn made from a kit.  Tender trucks and couplers from Tom Bee.

Driver and cylinder castings from Friends.  Loco weighs about 150 lbs.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2020, 10:32:36 PM
I had steel boiler made (not copper), bought 2 injectors vs. axle pump, and purchased oiler, blowdown valves, sight glass, etc.  Purchased a tender body (not the slant back).  Horn made from a kit.  Tender trucks and couplers from Tom Bee.

Driver and cylinder castings from Friends.  Loco weighs about 150 lbs.

Wow, that's really cool!  Have you shared a picture of it on the forum here?  I don't remember seeing it and I'd love to see your engine!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
With the pedestal base and rear axle box parts complete, I’m back to working on the side frames themselves.  My goal for today was to finish up anything I need to do with the side frames still connected together.  Basically, any symmetric feature.

As it turns out, I've discovered that I'm doing things out of from what Kozo shows.  No biggie, but if you're following along by the numbers, you'll see that this one is definitely out of order :)

Chapter 10.5 – Remaining Work for Side Frames

There were a few tapped holes on the top and bottom (these are the ones on the top and will be used to eventually attach the crosshead support).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069a_EngineSideFramesCont-1-DSC_7541.jpg)

Next, I finally cleaned up the rear cutout.  This one USED to have one of the screws that held the two sides together, which is why I left it till last.  The sides are still double-sticky taped together, but I wanted to leave the screw as a fail-safe as long as I could.  But with this operation, I’m down to two screws (and the sticky tape).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069a_EngineSideFramesCont-2-DSC_7543.jpg)

This final operation was to take off the excess on the bottom front of the frame.  This section housed another one of the screws. So now I’m down to just one (plus the sticky tape).  But there appears to be no sign of anything moving, which is good.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069a_EngineSideFramesCont-3-DSC_7545.jpg)

And here are the side frames, with all symmetrical features present.  Oh yeah, I also made a countersink around some of the through-holes on both sides.  I wanted to do that now since the countersink is supposed to be on the outside of the frames, and this helped make sure I know which side is the outside!  Now there is DEFINITELY a left and a right frame! :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069a_EngineSideFramesCont-4-DSC_7550.jpg)

Tomorrow will be continuing the frames, but doing the asymmetrical work.  Can’t wait to be done with these side frames.  There’s a lot of work in these puppies!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 29, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 30, 2020, 12:04:13 PM
My build thread is on the "other" site starting 10 years ago.

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/kozo-a3-in-1-5-scale.10775/
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2020, 08:20:18 PM
My build thread is on the "other" site starting 10 years ago.

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/kozo-a3-in-1-5-scale.10775/

I spent some time looking around your thread there, Wow!  That's quite a beefy machine you made there!
I'll have to read more of it. Thanks for the link, KVOM.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2020, 11:20:52 PM
There isn’t too much left on the side frames – just a few tapped holes and opening up the window in the frame to view the oil level in the oil pump.

I went with the oil level viewing port first, since it was the most detailed.  I started by drilling out the corners of the viewing port with a 1/4" drill.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069b_EngineSideFramesCont-1-DSC_7553.jpg)

Then used a 1/4" flat end mill to carve out the rest of it.  I accidentally overshot one of the corners (as one does ::)) so I opened up the viewing port an additional 10-15 thou wider than specified in the plan.  I figured this wouldn’t affect the operation at all and would be far less noticeable in overall appearance than leaving the ding on one of the corners :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069b_EngineSideFramesCont-2-DSC_7556.jpg)

After drilling out the few remaining holes, I tapped them (3-48).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069b_EngineSideFramesCont-3-DSC_7558.jpg)

And here’s the family shot to date.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/069b_EngineSideFramesCont-4-DSC_7563.jpg)

Tomorrow I’ll be starting on the front and rear parts of the frame.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2020, 11:49:06 PM
Well, a post or two back I made something I called the "Pedestal Base". Turns out that is really the "Pedestal Brace".  Funny how I read that word many times and always read it 'base' not 'brace'.  Anyway, I noticed this just now as I was updating my build index (see the original post for this build if you care what that is http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg185965#msg185965 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8552.msg185965#msg185965)) and realized my error.  So now I've updated that post (#818) with the correct term in order to be less confusing to any future readers.  I apologize for any inconvenience you experienced due to my error and my editor takes full responsibility for the mistake.  :)

Pedestal Brace makes more sense, as it is bracing the Pedestal.  Though 'base' isn't totally bonkers is it?  Anyway, you live, you learn!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 31, 2020, 06:56:09 PM
Quote
I apologize for any inconvenience you experienced due to my error and my editor takes full responsibility for the mistake.

 :ROFL:    :lolb:    I would love to use that one myself .... if I can remember to do so ....

Nice progress Kim.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2020, 11:30:32 PM
Chapter 10.4 – Front Bumper And Footplate


Today I started the Front Bumper and the Footplate.  The Front Bumper goes in the front of the frame, of course, and the Footplate goes at the rear of the frame. They both started from lengths of 12L14 square stock; the Front Bumper is 3/4" square and the Footplate is 5/8” square.

Starting with the front bumper, I squared up and trimmed the part to length, then, since it was indicated in, drilled all the required holes on one side of it:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-1-DSC_7566.jpg)

And did the same to the footplate. They look similar, but they are different sizes with different hole patterns.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-2-DSC_7569.jpg)

Both of these parts have 1/4" dados to fit the side frames.  (Can you use the term dado in metalworking? Well, I did, cause to me, that’s what it seems these are!).  But they are different depth.  One is 7/32” deep (the front bumper) and the other only 3/16” (footplate).  To further complicate things, the parts have different dimensions.  Regardless, Kozo recommends to cut the dados in these parts as a single operation. I assume that is so they are exactly the same width, which will keep the side frames parallel.

So this is how I did it.  I stacked up some things to use for a 3/32” spacer below the smaller part and used some 3/16” spacers on either side of the shorter piece so that it would be centered on the larger part.  Then I clamped them together to guarantee center and clamped them in the mill vise to hold them in place vertically.  This is with the vise open so you can see my packing job.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-3-DSC_7572.jpg)

After tightening down the mill vice, the clamp I was using to keep things horizontally spaced was removed.  You can also see that I marked up the parts so I could keep the orientation straight!  Would hate to do this carving on the wrong side!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-4-DSC_7574.jpg)

And I’m ready for my first cut! Looks like all my measuring was right because the groove comes out centered nicely on the holes (as it should).  The final cut will be 1/4" wide, but I started with a 7/32” mill and worked up to it.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-5-DSC_7575.jpg)

All the bits I used, up to the 1/4”, were two flute bits.  Unfortunately, my 1/4" 2 flute cutter was several thou undersized and the frames wouldn’t fit in.  So I ended up doing the final cut with a 4-flute mill that is exactly 0.250”.  While I know it's best to stick to 2-flute cutters when doing slots, I figured it would be OK since it was only shaving a few thou off either side.  It seemed to work just fine and now things fit as expected.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-6-DSC_7578.jpg)

And here’s my progress for the day.  The top one (smaller) is the footplate, and the lower one is the front bumper.  Neither part is complete yet, still more ops to do on them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070a_FrontBumperAndFootplate-7-DSC_7581.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2020, 11:32:21 PM
Quote
I apologize for any inconvenience you experienced due to my error and my editor takes full responsibility for the mistake.

 :ROFL:    :lolb:    I would love to use that one myself .... if I can remember to do so ....

Nice progress Kim.

Thanks Per!
You're welcome to use my editor any time if you think you can trust him! :) :Jester:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 31, 2020, 11:48:37 PM
For me, 2-flute cutters are best for aluminum, but for steel and light cuts they work just fine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 01, 2020, 04:19:03 AM
For me, 2-flute cutters are best for aluminum, but for steel and light cuts they work just fine.

Thanks Kvom,

Interesting.  I've heard other people say you should only use 2-flute cutters for slots, and if you can't use 2-flute, then definitely a cutter with an even number of flutes, never 3-flute or your slot may not end up straight (uneven cutting forces - or something like that).

I haven't heard that 4-flute is best on steel.  I've been using a mish-mash of 2-flute or 4-flute, depending on what I have on hand that is the size I want.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on November 01, 2020, 10:54:14 AM
I have mainly used what ever tools available at the time   years ago end mills were made not cutting to the centre
and end mills were made to std size plus tolerance slots drills were size minus tolerance so to get a slot to size you needed to use a slot drill 2 or three flutes  a end mill would usually cut over size .the mean reason of avoiding
three tooth cutters i never had a three tooth measuring micrometer to check the size .similar 0ne inch end mills
often had 5 teeth did not have the 5 tooth measuring mic so after grinding could not measure the size ,on cnc machine using offsets you cannot put in the offset if you don't know the size the 5 tooth end mills cut all-right. i used what ever was there to use .  modern methods machining cutters from stock material cutters all seam to be more on the under size so old ideas don't apply the same.  John
slot drills are shorter so are stiffer and more likely to cut a better size.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 01, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
The more flutes the stronger the tool as the gullies are smaller are the core larger.  A 4-flute can be fed twice as fast as a 2-flute of the same diameter and composition.  Two flute end mills are best for aluminum in that there is more room to clear chips and avoid chip welding when you don't have coolant.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 01, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Thank you John and Kvom for the additional info.

Things I never knew!  That's one of the many wonderful things about this forum! I learn something useful every day here :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 01, 2020, 11:04:34 PM
Continued work on the front bumper and footplate today.

Drilled all the remaining holes in the footplate:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070b_FrontBumperAndFootplate-1-DSC_7582.jpg)

And in the front bumper.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070b_FrontBumperAndFootplate-2-DSC_7585.jpg)

To round off the ends of the front bumper, I centered up the rotary table, then used a close-fitting plug to hold the bumper centered, I clamped it down on the RT so it was centered exactly over the RT.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070b_FrontBumperAndFootplate-3-DSC_7588.jpg)

Then offsetting the X-axis, I slowly moved in and rounded off the corners to make a semi-circle.  Did this on each end.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070b_FrontBumperAndFootplate-4-DSC_7589.jpg)

Following that I did a ton of taping (various sizes) on both parts, and here’s where I ended up:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070b_FrontBumperAndFootplate-5-DSC_7593.jpg)

Though it looks similar to yesterday, the ends of the bumper are now rounded and all the required holes are drilled and tapped.

Next will be to connect these to the side frames. But that’s a story for another weekend.  And my big burst of speed here will come to an end.  I've been on vacation this week but will now be going back to being a weekend machinist!  If I don’t, they’ll stop paying me.  And while I’m quite ready to retire, I’m not ready to stop getting paid quite yet!

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 02, 2020, 02:00:31 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 07, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
I'm still enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  I also mark complicated pieces with a marker pen so I know I am cutting away the right bits  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 08, 2020, 12:00:23 AM
Thank you Roger!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 08, 2020, 12:02:34 AM
The first thing I did today was to drill and tap the 3-48 mounting holes in the side frames for the front bumper and the footplate.

Since the frames are so long, and the holes are in the end, I ended up drilling them with a hand drill using the bumper as a drilling guide.  I’d intentionally left these holes at the size for the 3-48 tap (not the through-hole), so this worked very well.  Here’s a shot of my clamping job for this drilling process:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070c_FrontBumperAndFootplate-1-DSC_7597.jpg)

And an end-on close-up – the ones circled in red are my ‘guide holes’ that, after this operation, will be drilled out to 3-48 through holes (#37).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070c_FrontBumperAndFootplate-2-DSC_7594.jpg)

With that complete and the holes tapped, I proceed to do as I said, and drilled those holes out to #37 and added a countersink.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070c_FrontBumperAndFootplate-3-DSC_7599.jpg)

After doing basically the same operation to the footplate, I screwed the parts together and it sprung into 3D! Here’s the basic frame complete:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/070c_FrontBumperAndFootplate-4-DSC_7603.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 08, 2020, 12:04:31 AM
Chapter 10.6 – Crossties And Pins

The next parts up are what Kozo refers to as the Crossties and Pins.  These are two pieces that go across the frames to help tie them together. They go just before and just after the front axle block.  The pins will be inserted into the crossties to allow the front axle block to pivot a bit to allow for variations in track height.

The crossties are made from short lengths 1018  CRS.  I cut them, trimmed them to length, then drilled and reamed the hole for the pin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/071a_CrosstiesAndPins-5-DSC_7605.jpg)

After that, I drilled the 3-48 mounting holes on each side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/071a_CrosstiesAndPins-6-DSC_7607.jpg)

And tapped them.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/071a_CrosstiesAndPins-7-DSC_7609.jpg)

The final step will be to add the pins.  But I ran out of steam at this point and decided it was time to call it for the day.

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2020, 10:53:31 PM
This weekend I finished off the Crossties and Pins.

There was not much left to do. I cut the pins from 3/16” 12L14 and Loctite’d them in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/071b_CrosstiesAndPins-1-DSC_7610.jpg)

And here there are, mounted in the frame:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/071b_CrosstiesAndPins-2-DSC_7612.jpg)

And that was it for these parts.
Off to the next!

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2020, 11:01:31 PM
Chapter 10.7 – Front Coupler Pocket

And what’s next, but the Front Coupler Pocket, of course!  ;)

The attentive reader (or maybe the anal-retentive reader) might remember we made one of these for the tender, although it was called the Rear Coupler Pocket in that case.  Regardless of the name, the construction technique is pretty much the same.

I cut the various pieces from 0.090” sheet steel (I used 4130a), which is petty close to the 3/32” thickness specified by Kozo. This is what I could find. Couldn’t seem to find any 3/32” thick sheet (3/32”=0.093” for those of you used to the more sane metric system).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-01-DSC_7615.jpg)

Then I squared the four smaller pieces and up trimmed them to a uniform size of 1/2” x 7/8”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-02-DSC_7618.jpg)

After trimming the backplate, I drilled the four mounting holes and two small 0-80 clearance holes for little screws to hold things in place during soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-03-DSC_7620.jpg)

With the smaller 1/2" parts, I cut two slots in each – this is the two horizontal pieces, ganged together while cutting the slots.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-04-DSC_7624.jpg)

With the slots cut, I drilled a 0-80 hole for the solder-holder-screws in the horizontal pieces.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-05-DSC_7626.jpg)

Then knocked the outer prongs down a bit.  This is to keep you from having to clean up a soldered piece right next to another vertical piece.  It’s a great little thing that Kozo does, that I’d never have thought of on my own, but it does make a big difference in clean up later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-06-DSC_7629.jpg)

Here's a shot of me tapping the 0-80 holes.  Have I mentioned that this is the BEST little tap handle ever?  If you don’t have one of these, do yourself a favor and spend a few bucks and get one! I got mine from Little Machine Shop*.
*No affiliation with LMS other than a satisfied customer. All standard disclaimers apply.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-07-DSC_7630.jpg)

Here are all the parts for the coupler pocket, ready for assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-08-DSC_7633.jpg)

And here’s what they look like assembled:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-09-DSC_7635.jpg)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-10-DSC_7636.jpg)

Here it is, all fluxed-up and ready for the torch.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-11-DSC_7637.jpg)

And after the torch ceremony – Yeah, I was a bit harsh with this one.  Maybe I had the oxygen too low/high? I sure got a lot of soot on it!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-12-DSC_7640.jpg)

And here’s after some time in the pickle.  I think it could use more time, but I will milling a bit off each edge anyway.  And it looks like I got good penetration with the solder on each of the joints, which is good!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072a_FrontCouplerPocket-13-DSC_7642.jpg)

Next time I’ll take the Front Coupler Pocket to shape and finish it up.

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 16, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
You definitely got penetration / flow of silver solder on that assembly Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

That's a beefy coupler mount box! You'll be ready for the tractor pull with that!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on November 16, 2020, 12:34:20 AM
Nice soldering Kim looks like it now comes naturally to you now. It's nice to see all those new tools being used....LOL.....


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 16, 2020, 12:51:08 AM
Nice fabrication there Kim!
Fun to see the frame get to the point where you can start hanging parts off of it.  :Lol:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2020, 06:36:42 AM
Thanks Cnr,
Yeah, gotta have a strong coupler box so I can pull big loads of cars around in the yard with my switcher, right? :)

Thanks Don,
It is certainly coming easier.  I've still got a lot to learn though.

Thank you Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2020, 11:17:40 PM
With the soldering complete on the Front Coupler Pocket, it is now time to take it to shape.

I milled off the screw heads and took a very light skim across the back to make sure everything was level.  Did the same to the front side (no pics, sorry).

Then on the top side, I shaved off 1/16”, which was the extra I put on the top and bottom for the fabrication. This made the top nice and flush.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-1-DSC_7644.jpg)

With the top and bottom milled to size, I shaved off the overhang tabs on the side from the fabrication process.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-2-DSC_7647.jpg)

And last, for the major shaping, I used a 20o angle gauge block and cut the bottom flange so shape.  Looks like 20o was pretty close!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-3-DSC_7648.jpg)

The last operation on the mill was to drill and ream the 1/8” hole for the coupler pin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-4-DSC_7652.jpg)

Then a little hand filing to contour the front of the pocket and round the corners just a tad.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-5-DSC_7653.jpg)

And the Front Coupler Pocket is complete!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-6-DSC_7657.jpg)

And here it is screwed in place on the front of the engine chassis.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/072b-FrontCouplerPocket-7-DSC_7662.jpg)


Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on November 22, 2020, 04:11:10 PM
 :ThumbsUp:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 22, 2020, 04:13:52 PM
That turned out nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 22, 2020, 05:29:27 PM
Thanks Don and Dave!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 23, 2020, 12:15:26 AM
Great job Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2020, 05:55:35 AM
Thanks Cnr!  Appreciate the encouragement :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: jmcyclist on November 23, 2020, 06:43:52 PM
Keep track of that handle, Kim! I just got an email from LMS about it...apparently it was a one-off, "on the side" thing for the manufacturer, who has since decided to stop making them.  :'(

Chapter 10.7 – Front Coupler Pocket


Here's a shot of me tapping the 0-80 holes.  Have I mentioned that this is the BEST little tap handle ever?  If you don’t have one of these, do yourself a favor and spend a few bucks and get one! I got mine from Little Machine Shop*.
*No affiliation with LMS other than a satisfied customer. All standard disclaimers apply.

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2020, 05:49:06 AM
Really?!?  I had no idea!  They had them on their web site for several years.  Guess they've run out now.  That's too bad.  The really are the bets little tap handle!

But you know, you could easily make one out of a 2" piece of aluminum round bar.  Just put a square hole in the middle, the right size for your taps and fancy up the ends (round them off, put a little knurling on them) and you've got a nice light tap wrench.  It won't be red or blue, like the ones LMS sold, but they'd probably work just as well.

Too bad they don't have them any more. I even have the smallest Starrett tap wrench and it's really nice to use, but when you get down to anything under #4's I really like those itty-bitty aluminum tap wrenches!  Nothing that I've found beats them.

Just my opinion, of course.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 24, 2020, 11:25:13 PM
Chapter 10.8 – Foot Board

The next part is the Foot Board. This will attach to the underside of the front bumper.

The Foot Board consists of four brackets, bent from 1/16” steel (4130), and some 1/2” x 3/8” x 1/8” angle. I’m going to make the angle from 1018 CRS bar stock.

I started with the brackets.  I cut some strips from a 0.0625” thick sheet of 4130 then ganged them together to trim them to 9/32” wide.  They are a little longer than needed.  I’ll trim to length later.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-01-DSC_7664.jpg)

Using my handy-dandy shop vise, and making sure they were at 90 degrees (like so):
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-02-DSC_7667.jpg)

I formed the first bend in the bracket.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-03-DSC_7668.jpg)

The second bend was more difficult since it had to be accurate with respect to the first bend.  The brackets are supposed to be 3/4" wide. Since the metal is 1/16” thick, that makes the inside have a width of 5/8”.  So I used a 5/8” steel bar as a form for the bending.  I also put a random sized bar long the back to hold it in place (making the bending possible).  I couldn’t hold it directly in the vise or I wouldn’t be able to bend it down.  So, held like this:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-04-DSC_7671.jpg)

I was then able to make the second bend around the 5/8” bar like this:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-05-DSC_7673.jpg)

That made them exactly 3/4" wide!  How fun is that?  Though I didn’t show it, I was also checking for squareness at every step along here.  Tried to make sure I started square, and then squared it up after bending.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-06-DSC_7674.jpg)

And here we have the basic brackets for the Foot Board assembly.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-07-DSC_7676.jpg)

The brackets need two holes in them for attaching to the bumper.  So I clamped them around a piece of 5/8” aluminum bar scrap and, carefully indicating the location of each bracket, drilled the required mounting holes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-08-DSC_7678.jpg)

Then, rotating the brackets 90o I again indicated in each bracket and (making sure the legs were square) drilled a hole to attach the bracket to the angle.  I did this on both sides of the bracket.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-09-DSC_7680.jpg)

And here are the four mostly completed brackets.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-10-DSC_7682.jpg)

Next, I need to make the 1/2” x 3/8” x 1/8” angle.  I cut appropriate lengths of 3/8” x 1/2" 1018 bar, then proceeded to do some stress-relieving by heating them up nice and hot with the torch for a bit. 
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073a-FootBoard-11-DSC_7685.jpg)

I’ve left those to cool overnight and tomorrow (?) I’ll carry forward with making the angles.

Thanks for checking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 25, 2020, 12:08:00 AM
Nicely done! 



And now you know how to make staples too.... I'll take 1000...   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2020, 06:12:45 AM
And now you know how to make staples too.... I'll take 1000...   :Lol:

I'd like to see the staple gun that uses these!  They're mighty big! :ROFL:

I'll get you down for 1000 of these.  Lets see, if I pay myself minimum wage, they come out to just about $15 each.  So, I'll the total bill will be $15,000, and I need 50% down (plus materials) to get started.  So when your check for $8000 clears I'll get started on it right away.    :naughty: :Jester:

Chris - you should really put a new password on your computer.  I think the elves have hacked the current one! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2020, 01:19:30 AM
Now that my stress relieved parts are cool, I used a 3/4" end mill to cut out the notch to make them angles, like so:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-01-DSC_7687.jpg)

Then trimmed the ends square and to the specified length, followed by drilling holes to tap #1-72 for solder holders.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-02-DSC_7691.jpg)

And the final op for the angles are to trim the top edges to 45o.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-03-DSC_7693.jpg)

And here’s a family shot of the foot board elements:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-04-DSC_7697.jpg)

And with them all screwed together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-05-DSC_7699.jpg)

Next, I fluxed things up and got it set up on the fire brick for soldering.  I used the front bumper itself as a jig to hold things together in the proper orientation while soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-06-DSC_7702.jpg)

Here’s a shot post-soldering.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-07-DSC_7703.jpg)

After a pickle bath and washup, I put it on the mill and shaved off the screw heads:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-08-DSC_7705.jpg)

Then cut the staple/bracket things to the correct length.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-09-DSC_7708.jpg)

And here’s the completed Foot Board:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-10-DSC_7709.jpg)

And for the parting shot, here it is, mounted in place on the bumper attached to the frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/073b-FootBoard-11-DSC_7717.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 28, 2020, 01:43:32 AM
Beauty!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 28, 2020, 01:53:01 AM
Nice work Kim!
I enjoy seeing all the steps involved in making these parts.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2020, 06:28:38 AM
Thanks Chris and Dave,

I do enjoy sharing my progress, though I'm not sure I have much to teach.  I mainly post my steps so others can see that even a neophyte machinist, like me, can build things if they are persistent and take their time to think through the steps.  AND so that people with more experience, like you guys, can point out mistakes I make or things I can do better next time.  That's how I learn, and hopefully others learn too! :)

Thank you for all your help, and for watching my back while I build.  I really do appreciate it! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2020, 08:53:13 PM
Chapter 10.9 – Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar Pin

The last pieces for the chassis are Drawbar Pocket and Drawbar Pin. This is for connecting to the Tender drawbar, of course.

The Drawbar Pocket is machined from a short length of 5/16” x 5/8” 1018 CRS.  After trimming to length, I milled the pocket:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-01-DSC_7721.jpg)

Then, turning the part over, drilled the mounting holes (with countersink) and the hole for the drawbar pin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-02-DSC_7724.jpg)

Attaching the drawbar pocket to the rear footplate from the chassis, I used the center hole to locate and drill all the way through for the pin.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-03-DSC_7726.jpg)

Next, the Drawbar Pin.  This was made from 1/4" round 12L14. The pin is rather long so I turned it in a few steps.  Here’s the first step, with the tapered tip:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-04-DSC_7728.jpg)

And the second step, to full length.  Here I’m cutting the pin off the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-05-DSC_7730.jpg)

I flipped it around in a different collet (5/32”), faced off the top of the pin then chamfered the edge.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-06-DSC_7732.jpg)

And here’s a shot of the completed Drawbar Pocket & Pin, in place on the rear Foot Board.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/074a-DrawbarPocket-07-DSC_7736.jpg)

And that concludes the work covered on the Main Frame (section10, in Kozo’s book).  The next section covers the Axle Boxes.

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 30, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
The fit and finish look great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 01, 2020, 12:10:40 AM
a man on a mission i like that...... :ThumbsUp:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 01, 2020, 12:48:49 AM
So that is the part that drags the tender around!
Looks nice!


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 01, 2020, 05:45:33 AM
Thank you Cnr, Don and Dave!
Appreciate you stopping by for a look!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2020, 09:12:56 PM
Chapter 11.1 – Front Axle Boxes and Axle Box Caps

It’s been a few weeks since my last update, but I’ve been plugging away at it, just haven’t taken the time to post.  So here it goes. This is a long one (covers 3 weeks!)

I’m just starting Chapter 11, which covers the axle boxes.  First will be a fairly complex part, the Font Axle Box.  What makes this complex is that not only does it hold the front axle, but it has to pivot too.  Kozo wanted to make sure the engine always had good contact with the track at all times.  To do this, he designed the engine to be supported at three points – two points are the two rear drive wheels and the final point is mid-way between the two front drive wheels.  This is the pivot point I referred to above.  The front axle box will pivot on those pivot pins that are on the crossties made several posts back (Post No 851: Chapter 10.6 - Crossties and Pins (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg227813.html#msg227813)).

The front axle box is made from 1” square 12L14 stock.  I cut a piece and milled it to the correct length, plus an extra 1/32”.  We’ll face that extra length off later in the lathe.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-01-DSC_7739.jpg)

Next, I milled out rabbets on either side of the bar to make room for the axle box caps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-02-DSC_7751.jpg)

The box caps are 1/2” x 33/64” x 1”.  I was originally going to make them from 1/2 x 5/8” 1018, but then I decided since I was going to be boring this lengthwise through half the box cap and half the axle box, it might be best to keep the material identical to decrease the chance that the drill bit would wander. So I used another piece of the 1” 12L14 for the caps too.

After facing the ends, I cut it in half-ish.  Not exactly half, because I needed one side to be exactly 1/2" wide.  I didn’t care about the other piece.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-03-DSC_7740.jpg)

After cutting, I cleaned up the larger half so that it was exactly 1/2" wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-04-DSC_7742.jpg)

Then I cut THAT in half – this time it really was half.  I’d made the piece long enough that I had extra to make sure each half was OVER 33/64” (the size I needed)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-05-DSC_7747.jpg)

I cleaned up the sawed side – not to a specific length, but just so that it was square with the rest of the piece.  Then using my ‘reference side’ (the side that would touch the axle box) I measured in and drilled and counter-sunk four 3-48 clearance holes for mounting screws.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-06-DSC_7754.jpg)

Then using a clamp to hold the axle box caps in place, I drilled through to locate and drill holes for 3-48 threads.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-07-DSC_7756.jpg)

And tapped them:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-08-DSC_7759.jpg)

With the caps firmly in place, I centered the assembly as best I could in the 4-jaw chuck and faced it off flat (it wasn’t even before because the cap stuck out too far).  When things were even, I took off an additional 1/64” to bring the entire assembly to nearly the correct length (I still had 1/64” to remove from the OTHER end too, so not quite to length yet).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-09-DSC_7762.jpg)

With the axle box still centered, I drilled a 1/4" hole, then 3/8” then 1/2".  Turns out all of my nice bits are screw machine length bits – none of them (even the 1/2" bit) was long enough to go through the 3 1/8” of the axle box.  So I used some jobber length HSS bits that I had.  These did the job just fine.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-10-DSC_7765.jpg)

I needed the hole to be 9/16” reamed.  But I didn’t have anything between 1/2" and 9/16”. So I decided to bore a bit out of the hole to get closer.  Turns out this didn’t work very well.  Looking back on it I think my boring bar was set to the wrong angle which is why it didn’t cut very well.  But it got me close enough…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-11-DSC_7768.jpg)

I had planned to ream the hole to 9/16” in the lathe, but it turns out that my reamer had a 9/16” shaft, and I had no way to hold it in the lathe.  My chuck only goes up to 1/2".  So I moved it to the mill.  Squared it up as best I could, found the center then reamed it there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-12-DSC_7772.jpg)

This seemed to work just fine, and here’s the axle box up to this point.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-13-DSC_7774.jpg)

This would have been the end of a post, but I never got around to making it.  So consequently, it's not the end :)

Next, I cut a 1/8” rabbet on each end, top and bottom, of the axle box.  Note that I removed the outer two screws to perform this operation!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-14-DSC_7776.jpg)

Then used a homemade tool to re-cut the countersink on the outside two holes.  I had to use this tool since there was that step right next to it and a standard countersink tool wouldn’t fit past the step - it's too wide.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-15-DSC_7779.jpg)

It took some doing, but I found a way to hold the axle box at a 45o angle to cut a 1/16” chamfer on the top side of the notches.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-16-DSC_7784.jpg)

Then I shaved a couple of thou off of the left and right sides of the axle box to give the assembly some mechanical clearance so it would pivot in the 1” slots provided in the frame.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-17-DSC_7786.jpg)

While it was squared up in the mill I also drilled and reamed the 3/16” hole for the pivot pins.  While I reamed these very accurately to 3/16”, I eventually ended up drilling them out a bit to #11 which is a few thou bigger than 3/16”.  As it turns out, I was supposed to have turned down the pins from 3/16” to a few thou under. But I didn’t do that (missed that in the drawing!).  So, rather than try and take the pins out and reduce their diameter, I just made the pivot hole a little larger.  I think it will work equally well :)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-18-DSC_7787.jpg)

The bottom side of the axle box needed to be opened up to 0.450”.  I believe this is to let the front axle slide in and out of the axle box and then be retained by the axle box caps.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-19-DSC_7791.jpg)

And finally, I drilled some oil cups for the front wheel bearings. These holes were 1/8” in diameter and 3/32” deep.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-20-DSC_7793.jpg)

A smaller hole was then drilled all the way through to get oil to the bushing.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-21-DSC_7796.jpg)

And with that done, the Front Axle Box is complete!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-22-DSC_7803.jpg)

And here’s my final shot showing the front axle box in place.  It did take some working to get it to move smoothly.  I had to take the sharp corner off of several edges of the axle box so that it would freely pivot without getting hung up on things, but now it pivots very smoothly, about 1/8” up and down on either side.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/075a-FrontAxleBoxes-23-DSC_7809.jpg)

And that now catches us up.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 18, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
Busy few weeks!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2020, 11:36:58 PM
Thanks Chris!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're elves would have thought it a snooze fest, moving so slowly.  But for me, it was real action! (We need a snail emoji!)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 19, 2020, 12:52:54 AM
Nice work Kim!
You have been busy.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2020, 01:18:35 AM
Thanks Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 19, 2020, 07:48:08 AM
Nicely done  :praise2:  :praise2: That's quite an interesting design to allow his 3 point suspension to work  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 19, 2020, 08:00:51 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2020, 04:12:27 PM
Thanks for the comments Roger and CNR!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2020, 08:39:41 PM
Chapter 11.2 – Bushings

The next parts are the split bushings for the engine axles.  There are four of these, all the same.  They are made from 1” round 932 Phosphor Bronze.  I ordered 3/4" for these, but it seems like that was a mistake.  The OD for the flange on these bushings is 3/4" but they are split, which will take a little extra out of the middle.  I must have missed that fact when making my material list since 3/4" just won’t cut it.  Well, it might… because the bronze rod always comes about 20-30 thou oversized. But even if I could keep my slit under that size, I’m worried that soldering the halves back together will be off by a few thou and I just won’t have room to true it up.  So, I went with the next larger size of bronze I have, which is 1”.  Luckily, it only takes a few inches of the stuff and I have enough.

So, the first move is to cut a few inches (about 3) in half.   I measure carefully and used a 0.040” slitting saw (after all, I’ve got a ton of extra wiggle room when using the 1” size!)
I cut from both sides so that I had it separated in half all the way up to the marked line.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-01-DSC_7811.jpg)

Here’s what it looks like right off the slitting saw.  Very nice finish, actually. I’d thought I might have to mill the middle flat but this seems plenty flat to me. The two halves fit together very well!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-02-DSC_7812.jpg)

Here are the halves fluxed up with some flattened solder on the.  I’m using soft solder for this operation.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-03-DSC_7816.jpg)

Now sitting together with a little weight on top to help push them together.  I’m hoping that the halves don’t slide too much when the solder melts.  Guess we’ll see.  I’ve got some room to play with anyway.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-04-DSC_7818.jpg)

Turns out it went quite well.  You can see that the back top half slid a little to the left there, and the front slipped a little to the right.  But not much. Well within my tolerances, though probably not if I’d gone with the 3/4" bronze though.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-05-DSC_7822.jpg)

Now off to the lathe where I centered the newly joined halves as best I could using the 4-jaw chuck.  The most important part was to make sure the centerline is in the middle.  The other dimension is less important but I still wanted to get it close-ish.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-06-DSC_7828.jpg)

Then I cut it down to 3/4” OD and drilled a 3/8” hole in the center.  From there I used a boring bar to open it up to about 0.415” (a little under 7/16” or 0.4375”).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-07-DSC_7833.jpg)

Followed by reaming to 7/16”.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-08-DSC_7835.jpg)

It was at this point I realized my error.  I DID realize the bushings were split and I DID order the right material.  I was misreading the drawings NOW, not then.  Looking at the drawings I misread the 0.075” as 0.75” for the diameter of the flange.  But really, it’s the width of the flange 0.075”  (silly little order of magnitude mistake).  And of course, the diameter of the flange is 11/16”. So I could have used the 3/4" phosphor bronze.  Ah well, what’s a little extra phosphor bronze swarf laying around, right?  :insane:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-09a-1-DSC_7814.JPG)

So, NOW I take it down to 11/16” OD.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-09-DSC_7838.jpg)

Then cut the main part of the bush to 9/16” and cut it off leaving a tad extra on the flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-10-DSC_7840.jpg)

After repeating that four times, I then popped each of the bushings into a 9/16” collet and faced it off to the proper width.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-11-DSC_7841.jpg)

Now, to un-solder the bushing halves.  I mistakenly thought that by suspending them like this, the weight of the bush half would separate it when I heated them up.  Unfortunately, no. I had to poke at them with something to get them to separate. But that wasn’t too hard, and they did all come apart.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-12-DSC_7844.jpg)

With a little cleaning up, they look almost presentable.  I also marked the halves so that I could keep them together.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-13-DSC_7848.jpg)

Kozo’s directions have you use Loctite to hold the upper half of the bushings in place.  Here it’s the lower half because things are sitting upside down.  Also, he has you put a piece of paper in-between the lower half of the bushing and the axle cap, then ream the bushings again. This will give a little extra space so that the axels spin well even when the axle caps are tightened down.  At least, that’s the theory.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-14-DSC_7850.jpg)

And here they are, all in place.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/076a-EngineAxleBushings-15-DSC_7853.jpg)

That’s actually a lot of work for those little guys!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 21, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
Great work on little but very important parts!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 21, 2020, 10:55:52 PM
Hi Kim, a handy trick for separating soldered halves type parts, like your bushings: use a pair of expanding type e-ring pliers to pop them apart while heating. You want the pliers that remove external e-rings, where the ends expand. Did that the last few sets of conrod bearings I made. Your chassis is coming together!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2020, 05:36:35 AM
Thanks Chris and CNR!

Hi Kim, a handy trick for separating soldered halves type parts, like your bushings: use a pair of expanding type e-ring pliers to pop them apart while heating. You want the pliers that remove external e-rings, where the ends expand. Did that the last few sets of conrod bearings I made. Your chassis is coming together!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Good tip, CNR!  I was trying to think of something like that.  Clearly, the parts are too light for the gravity assist I was hoping for, so something like the e-ring pliers is a great idea!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 29, 2020, 06:51:31 PM
Good work  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I see you have numbered each pair. I tend to use a largish (75w) electric soldering iron for soft soldering split bushes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2021, 06:48:44 PM
Chapter 12.1 – Driving Wheels

In chapter 12, Kozo describes how to make a pattern for the drivers and tells you to send it out to a foundry and have some cast for you.  I know you can get a set of driver castings from the Friends Yankee Shop Models ( http://www.friendsmodels.com/productsforsale/kozowheelsdrivers.html (http://www.friendsmodels.com/productsforsale/kozowheelsdrivers.html)), but I want to make my engine completely from bar stock.  Not sure why, I just want to.  So I came up with this idea for how to make the drivers.  My hope was to complete one to show it was possible.  I still believe it’s possible, but I’m not there yet, and it's time to let you all in on my foibles and progress (or lack of progress :)).

The first thing I did was to make a jig to help me with making the drivers.  This jig allows me to create a radius with the center outside the driver.  It might not make much sense yet, but in the next post, you’ll see how I use it.

I needed two 1/4" pins spaced exactly 5/8” apart.  This will be for the center of the hub and the crank pin.  I will use these holes to keep the wheel aligned during machining.  Then I need a way to locate the center of my radius that is outside the driver.  I did this by drilling and reaming a third 1/4" hole.  It wouldn’t have to be 1/4", but for simplicity, I kept them all the same size.  Here’s a hunk of aluminum I had that I’m using for the base of my driver jig with the three holes drilled and reamed:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-01-DSC_7873.jpg)

Then I made two 1” pins to fit the holes.  I used 1/4" 12L14.  This was a nice fit in the 1/4" reamed holes.  But I needed the pins to stay in place.  So, my idea was to knurl a bit on the end of the pin so that I’d get a nice friction fit.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-02-DSC_7876.jpg)

Unfortunately, that was WAY too tight. For the first pin, I tried to use my 1-ton press to get it to go in, but that wasn’t working – it wasn’t going in straight.  So I brilliantly used a hammer and pounded it in.  Took a lot of pounding but I won!  I got it all the way in. For the second pin, I was smarter and chucked it back in the lathe and filed off most of the knurling.  This one went in better, but still, not as easy as I’d have thought.

Guess it doesn’t take much ‘interference’ to make a good friction fit, eh?  The pin on the right is the first one. And what I didn’t think about is that all my pounding REALLY changed the shape of the pin.  It isn’t straight, it isn’t round, and it isn’t 1/4" anymore.  And this picture was taken after I’d done some filing to get rid of the mushroom head I’d put on the pin.  But again, that didn’t help much cause the whole pin was fatter and shorter than it had been before.  Good lesson learned here! Don’t use a friction fit if you want to keep a pin a specific size!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-03-DSC_7882.jpg)

With that lesson learned, I drilled out the deformed pin.   The remaining hole was now 6-7 thousandths over 1/4", so a new pin would wobble around in there way too much.  To fix this, I drilled out the hole, tapped it 3/8”-24, and made a 3/8” aluminum plug that I screwed and Loctited in place.  After that set, I milled it flat and drilled & reamed a new 1/4” hole in the plug.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-04-DSC_7904.jpg)

At this point, I realized that having two close-fitting pins on a part like this might make it hard to get the workpiece on and off.  So I decided to make a removable pin to use for this second one.  So that’s what I did.  And I used Loctite to attach a little handle to the pin so I could get it out easier too.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-05-DSC_7918.jpg)

OK, now, finally, on to making an actual driver!  The drivers for the A-3 are 3 7/16” in diameter at the flange.  So I used 3.5” round bar (12L14) for this and set up the saw to cut a 1/2" slice from the loaf of steel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-06-DSC_7856.jpg)

It was doing just fine till it got to some point and just wouldn’t make any progress. I fussed around with the saw trying to get it to cut more – the blade was still going around, but there were NO metal shavings coming out the backside.  None at all.  So I finally unclamped the piece and rotated it about 20-30 degrees.  I used the existing kerf to keep things lined up.  And then it would cut again, for a while.  Then it stopped again.  I went through this process 3-4 times till I finally saw what was happening!  The inside blade guide roller was hitting the clamp!  You can almost see that here (it’s the one in the back).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-07-DSC_7864.jpg)

And here’s another picture from over the top of the blade.  Anyway, once I figured that out, I moved the guides a few inches to the left to give it more clearance and all was good. (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-08-DSC_7866.jpg)

You can see the pretty pattern that resulted from me rotating the stock during the cut.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-09-DSC_7869.jpg)

Then to the lathe where I faced one side of the slice:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-10-DSC_7885.jpg)

Drilled and reamed a 1/4" hole in the center:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-11-DSC_7887.jpg)

Turned it around and faced the backside off to exactly 1/2".
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-12-DSC_7893.jpg)

Then over to the mill where I drilled and reamed the 2nd 1/4" hole, 5/8” from the center.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-13-DSC_7895.jpg)

And now you can see how it sits in my jig:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077a-DrivingWheels-14-DSC_7919.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2021, 06:53:36 PM
With the jig made and a wheel blank ready, I clocked in the rotary table using the coaxial indicator:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-01-DSC_7910.jpg)

And using a 1/4" gauge pin, I centered the distant hole on the rotary table.  I used the square as a way to align the jig with the table so I knew that the crank-pin was aligned.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-02-DSC_7915.jpg)

Then, using the rotary table and a 1/4" mill, I cut an arc, 7/16” deep.  This arc defines the lower part of the weight on the driver.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-03-DSC_7923.jpg)

Next, I re-centered the jig so that the center pin was exactly over the center of the RT and cut a similar arc all around the inside of the driver rim.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-04-DSC_7927.jpg)

Then cut an arc around the top of the hub:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-05-DSC_7932.jpg)

Now, using the same trick to center the crank-pin hole over the center of the RT. Again, I used the square to keep the jig aligned at the same angle to the RT.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-06-DSC_7928.jpg)

And cut a radius around the lower part of the hub.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-07-DSC_7935.jpg)

Then I carefully joined the upper and lower hub sections.  The sides are just about 11 degrees off vertical.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-08-DSC_7937.jpg)

Next, I re-centered over the middle hole (I will improve these steps to require fewer re-centering operations :)) and removed all the excess except for a 1/8” wide arc close to the outer rim.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-09-DSC_7939.jpg)

Then, I cut that down to only 1/8” high.  The reason I leave this raised section is that it will help hold the spokes at the correct height.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-10-DSC_7945.jpg)

Then I did the same to the other side.   With this, the major shape of the driver can be seen.  The rim, the weight along the top, and the hub.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-11-DSC_7951.jpg)

Next, I used a 1/8” ball-nose mill to cut grooves for the spokes.  There are 12 spokes, each 30o apart.  And they are offset 15o from vertical. Here I’ve cut the first two grooves for the spokes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-12-DSC_7955.jpg)

Now all 12 spoke grooves are complete.  (This did require some clamp leapfrog work.)
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-13-DSC_7957.jpg)

And here’s the state of play.  The side you are looking at will be the back of the driver.  The front will be the other side and the 1/16” of steel left on that side will be removed, revealing the spokes, inset by 1/8”.  My thinking in doing the hub, rim, and weight as one piece like this is that I should be able to attach the spokes and maintain things in the right dimensions so that the wheel will still be round.  It’s like a built-in jig for keeping the hub centered to the rim.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077b-DrivingWheels-14-DSC_7959.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2021, 07:08:05 PM
Next, I need to make the spokes.  They are all made from 1/8” x 5/16” CRS (1018).  I used a 1/16” round-over mill to round off the ends of the spokes.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-01-DSC_7961.jpg)

Then round off one of the long edges.  This will be the front side.  It will face down in the wheel I’ve just made and the rounded side will mesh with the ballnose shaped hole.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-02-DSC_7963.jpg)

Here are all the spokes completed.  Note that four of them needed to have both ends rounded.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-03-DSC_7965.jpg)

I also needed to round off the corner where the two round-overs meet.  Unfortunately, I started rounding off the ends that needed to be square on a couple of them, so needed to re-make those.  But you get the idea here.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-04-DSC_7967.jpg)

Now for the big step – soldering the spokes in place.  I’m all set up on the hearth with flux and solder…
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-05-DSC_7972.jpg)

And quite sometime later, I have this charred piece of junk :(  It did not go well.  By the time I got the rim (especially the weight section) hot enough, the spokes weren’t hot enough.  I had to blast heat from the top to get those since there is no access through the bottom.  I worked at it for a while with my standard welding tip (#1 I think).  But eventually moved to a rosebud (#4).  That worked better – got a lot more heat a lot faster.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-06-DSC_7975.jpg)

Anyway, left it to cool and then in the pickle.  Here’s what it looks like after several hours in the pickle.  You can see that almost NOTHING happened with the hub joints.  And only one of the outer joints looks like it has a decent solder job.  A few of the outer spokes seem to have been soldered to some degree.  But not most (though I intentionally stopped before I got around to most of them).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-07-DSC_7980.JPG)

Unfortunately, one of the outer rim joints that DID get made, came out in the wrong place!  I didn’t think they’d move. And they didn’t… much.  Just a little bit.  But its enough to make the spokes not align, and I don’t like that!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077c-DrivingWheels-08-DSC_7981.JPG)

So, my assessment*:
1)   The wheel has so much thermal mass it's hard for me to get the whole thing hot enough, fast enough.
2)   I can’t heat the spokes from the underside at all.
3)   I tried to do too much at once.   I should have focused on a few joints and tried it again for the next ones.  Doing all of them at the same time was a BAD idea.
4)   I should have had a way to keep the spokes from moving while soldering.

I may try and play with this experiment a little more – see if I can clean it up and get some better joints out of it.  My problem is that it's hard to get into the places you need to in order to clean up the joints for another go.

Anyway, that’s where I’m at. And that’s where my soft solder/powder coating question came from.

Thanks for taking a look and for any thoughts or comments you may have.
Kim

*I’ve learned all these lessons before.  Guess I just was so worried about heating up that whole thing that I didn’t want to do it multiple times.  In retrospect, that was silly, wasn’t it?

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 02, 2021, 07:35:35 PM
Hi Kim, even though your soldered assembly was not successful, I'd say this was an excellent attempt and that you learned a great deal from it. That in itself is a big win. I am sure with more heat (and maybe using a high heat black flux) your next ones will be golden.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tghs on January 02, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
were you using any firebricks to help keep in the heat?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2021, 09:57:41 PM
Thanks, CNR, that's what I'm trying to tell myself :)

Tghs,  good thought.  I'm sitting the item on firebricks, but mostly it was supporting.  I should try putting some on the sides and behind.  I just like to be able to get the torch all around the item so I'll have to learn a different technique to make that work.  But I guess that's the point, right?  The techniques I've been using don't work for this, so it's time to learn something new!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2021, 07:56:43 PM
This weekend I took a second try at silver soldering the wheel assembly. 

I did my best to clean it up some using various files and then set it up for another round with the torch.  Forgot to take a ‘before shot’ but here it is just after the soldering session.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077d-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_7987.jpg)

What I did differently:

And, as one might expect, it worked far better!  The biggest difference, I believe, was the black flux.  It really stays around much longer than the white flux.  And I focused on a few joints along the bottom rim and a few along the top of the hub.  With the part set up this way, I was able to get below and behind the part which made for better access for applying heat too.  I stuck a length of 1/4" steel in the hole to help provide some stability so the wheel wouldn’t fall over.  It seemed to work.

After I completed those few joints, I left it to cool, then a while in the pickle, and cleaned it up again for another run.


This time, I did another set of joints, then rotated the wheel a bit, and did a few more.  In this way, I actually completed the rest of the joints in that session.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077d-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_7991.jpg)

Another thing I did differently was to apply the solder after heating the part, rather than ahead of time as I normally do.  Not sure if that was better, but it allowed me to do more joints in one heating session that way.  I also found that dipping the solder in the black flux, then applying some directly to the hot joint seemed to help some.  Not sure it was the best, but it seemed to work OK.

Here’s a couple of close-ups of the wheel after it was pickled for several hours.  Not perfect joints, but getting better.  I think my next wheel will be even better!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077d-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_7992.jpg)

You can see a few here that don’t look complete, and some that look kind-of like ‘cold’ solder joints, like the solder didn’t really flow very well.  Not sure if that was a flux problem or a heat problem.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077d-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_7995.jpg)

Anyway, my plan is to go forward with a few more steps on this test wheel.  It is, only a test.  The spokes are too far out of whack so it's not worth perfecting this one anyway.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tghs on January 10, 2021, 08:11:09 PM
looking better,, soldering can be a hard learning curve!! then there are those days when everything should be perfect and it still doesn't work :wallbang:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 10, 2021, 08:30:00 PM
That is quite the journey! I wimped out and bought the casting - and finishing those nearly killed me!

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 10, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

More progress and more learning! Latest result looks far better.  Do you have or could you borrow a second torch to add more heat on the opposite side you are working? That can help when silver soldering deep or heavy assys. Just food for thought. Even an additional Spitfire type air/propane mixer tube  plumbing torch can help.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 10, 2021, 10:31:45 PM
Looks a lot better Kim and the learning curve on this is great. What I would of first done was to solder the inter spokes since there is less mass there and the heat would not of transfer to the outer rim very much. After completing the inner then I would concentrate on the outer rim with heat specifically in spots like two spokes at a time then move to the next two etc... just my two cents ..
Your work has been very intuit.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2021, 05:36:14 AM
Thanks tghs, Matthew, Cnr, and Don!

I wimped out and bought the casting - and finishing those nearly killed me!

Getting the castings is certainly not wimping out!  It's still not out of the question for me.  But as I said earlier, or some intangible reason, I really want to do the whole thing without castings.  Not sure of the reason.  It's not really cost - it may be a tad cheaper to fabricate them, but purchasing a foot of 3.5" 12L14 was not cheap!  Though I'll still have most of it left over after I make the wheels, so I guess it is cheaper material wise, but certainly not time wise.  Luckily, I'm doing this for fun, so whatever I think is fun is what I get to do :)  Don't you love hobbies?  :Lol:

Do you have or could you borrow a second torch to add more heat on the opposite side you are working? That can help when silver soldering deep or heavy assys. Just food for thought. Even an additional Spitfire type air/propane mixer tube  plumbing torch can help.

This is a good idea, though the only other torch I have is one of those BernzOmatic torches.  Maybe I'll get that in the mix and see if it helps with the heating.

What I would of first done was to solder the inter spokes since there is less mass there and the heat would not of transfer to the outer rim very much. After completing the inner then I would concentrate on the outer rim with heat specifically in spots like two spokes at a time then move to the next two etc... just my two cents ..

Good process inputs.  I'll have to think about the best process for my next try.

The black flux helped a lot by staying in place longer. But it sure is a booger to get off!  It leaves a thick black crust on the part.  The white stuff leaves more of a clear crust.  Guess its not TOO much different, but the black stuff makes it look uglier for sure!

Thanks for all the helpful input everyone!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 17, 2021, 09:31:09 PM
Now I’m ready to see if I can slice off the back (which is really the front) and make it look more like a driver!  I’m a little worried that the spacer I left on the bottom might have gotten accidentally soldered to the spokes or something.  I’ve just never done something like this, so I’m excited/apprehensive to see how it worked.

First, I centered it up on the ‘back’ side (the side where the spokes were exposed already), faced it flat, and then took 1/16” out between the main hub and the rim of the wheel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8003.jpg)

Then, I flipped it around and centered it up again.  This will be the final setup using the four jaw chuck.  After this, I’ll be turning using a mandrel on the axle hole so everything looks concentric when it's going around in circles.

The first thing I did on this side was to open up the 1/4" hole to 3/8” with a drill. Then I used a small boring bar to bring it out to just under 7/16”, to make sure the hole truly straight and perpendicular.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8006.jpg)

And finally, the 7/16” reamer.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8007.jpg)

With the center hold complete, I moved to shaving off the 1/16” that I left on the bottom of the fabricated part, which, as I said before is really the outside of the driver.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8012.jpg)

I took off the full 0.062”, then a few thou more because I didn’t seem to be through.  I was debating if I should take off a little more, but then I noticed the pattern here – I could see a subtle line around the outside and the hub.  It wasn’t nearly as pronounced as you see in this picture.  By the time I thought to take the picture I’d already poked and prodded it with some tools trying to get it to come out. When I realized it would, I stopped and took the picture.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-5-DSC_8013.jpg)

Then I continued my poking, prodding, and prying, and it finally came off, sort-of like those pull top lids!  There was one spot where I had to kind of tear the metal – you can see the jagged spot along the weight edge – some solder dripped there and made it not come out as easily there.  It will take some filing work to clean that part up. Regardless, it came off!  And the resulting wheel looked pretty good!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-6-DSC_8020.jpg)

Here’s another shot of the peel-off lid and the wheel.  I’ve done some cleaning up on the wheel to get rid of the sharp edges. But it still needs more cleaning for sure.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-7-DSC_8029.jpg)

Here’s another shot of the backside of the wheel – this side will be painted, except for the rim and the hub.  And you won’t see those gaps anyway, since it's on the inside (that was one of the reasons for making it upside down).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-8-DSC_8026.jpg)

And here’s the top side. You can still see the spot where the solder was along the inside of the wheel weight (just right of center).  It’s not quite as jagged, but it still doesn’t make the smooth line it should along there.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077e-DrivingWheels-9-DSC_8022.jpg)

And just in case you’re wondering, I’m quite pleased with how it came out!  Still have to shape the rim so it looks like a train wheel, but the method of fabricating the part so it looks like a driver seems to have worked!

Couple of things I'll do differently on the REAL wheel fabrication:

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 17, 2021, 09:38:17 PM
Love the pop-top trimming!  I must have missed something, you mention doing this all again on the 'real' wheel? Was this a practice one to work out the techniques?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: FKreider on January 17, 2021, 10:06:18 PM
That's a lot of work and dedication!  :cheers:

Just goes to show you can build just about anything out of bar stock!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 17, 2021, 10:10:17 PM
Great work. That really looks the business! I've looked at a good number of build logs and I don't think I've seen anyone do it this way yet!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 17, 2021, 10:36:04 PM
Wheel looks great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 18, 2021, 12:05:10 AM
One down, 3 more to go.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 18, 2021, 01:47:31 AM
Kim

I like that "Pop-top" wheel!  Looking good for a proof of concept piece.

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 18, 2021, 05:47:37 AM
Thanks Chris, Frank, Matthew, CNR, Kvom, and Joe!
Really appreciate your comments :)

Chris, I started with just one, even though I needed four.  I wanted to prove the technique before I went to all the work (and material!)  of carving up four of them.   I had hoped that this was just the first of four, with three to come up in parallel next.  But once I got to the soldering and one of the spokes came out crooked, that's when it became the prototype driver, rather than the first of a production run    :embarassed:

I've learned a lot with this one and I will jump into the real four, all in parallel, next.  I'm debating about whether I should do five, but I'm kinda thinking I'll just do four and do another one if I need to.  Which I hope I won't   :-\

Matthew, I've never seen it done this way before either.   I was just trying to figure out a way to do it that would somewhat minimize the machining (i.e. I didn't want to machine 12 spokes out of the solid).  My first plan was to do it in more of a Kozo method where every piece was screwed to a base plate, and that plate would be machined away.  Then I came up with the idea to just machine the backing plate as part of the rim.  And leaving the hub there helped keep the rim and hub concentric during soldering.  The last innovation I had was to do the rounding of the spokes and put them in from the back.  I really liked that idea because I think it will make the finished drivers look more cating like to have the rounded spokes rather than have a square edge on the spokes from my original plan.

The Pop-Top part, that wasn't part of the plan.  My idea was to machine the whole thing off.  But I think what happened was that as the metal got thin, it bent in under the pressure of the cutter and the last few thou didn't shave off.  Only the parts that were thick & held ridgid cut off.  That's why I'm making the next ones with another 1/32" or so to cut off.  I think it will get rid of the pop-top lid :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2021, 07:33:45 PM
The first task on my list today is to make the 7/16” mandrel needed for turning the drivers.  Not a lot of pictures here because it’s a straight forward turning job.

I made it from 4” of 7/8” 12L14.  The last half inch or so is threaded 7/16”-28 (yes, I single point threaded it! Kinda fun, you know?:))
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8031.jpg)

I didn’t have any 7/16”-28 nuts so I made one.  Standard 7/16” nuts are 3/4" wide between flats.  I didn’t have any 3/4" hex, so I made my nut 5/8” across flats.  And tapped it 7/16”-28, of course.  I also made it extra tall, at about 1/2" tall.  Figured it would help hold things in place better.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8033.jpg)

Here’s the test driver all setup on lathe installed on its new mandrel.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8036.jpg)

I punched a mark on the mandrel that lines up with a mark I’ve made on my collet chuck.  That way I can be sure to get my mandrel in the same orientation if I ever take it out.  And I am also using that same mark to line up the pin hole of the wheel. That way I can re-install the driver in the same orientation if I need to do more machining.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8038.jpg)

I turned the wheel down to 3 7/16” diameter.  Then cut the tread part of the wheel down to 3.25 leaving the last 3/32” for the flange.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-5-DSC_8039.jpg)


Next, I used a 60o threading tool and cut a groove right at 2.75” radius. This makes a nice groove ‘separating’ the weight from the rim, and it leaves a bit of a chamfer on the inside of the rim.  The trick here was to make sure I got the tool set to exactly 2.75” diameter.  To help with this I drilled a very tiny spot right in the center of the mandrel. This helped me center the tool.  Then I used the DRO to move out the specified distance.  It worked out pretty well.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-6-DSC_8044.jpg)

With the cross-slide set to 3o I cut the angle on the tread.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-7-DSC_8048.jpg)

Then cut the 10o angle on each side of the flange.  I also took a little chamfer around the outside of the rim and rounded over the top of the flange with a file.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-8-DSC_8049.jpg)

And finally, the beauty shot of my completed driver prototype.  Actually, I still need to drill out the pin hole a little larger.   But that shouldn’t be too hard.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077f-DrivingWheels-9-DSC_8053.jpg)

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 19, 2021, 08:17:03 PM
Looking good Kim!
A small blast cabinet would sure be nice to clean the wheels after silver soldering. ;)
Did you ever try boiling water to remove the flux?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 19, 2021, 10:51:49 PM
Wow - lovely work Kim. I have to agree - single point threading is fast becoming my favourite turning job. Don't know why. Something about knowing what's going on synchronizing everything on the lathe that is just fun.

Top shelf job - really impressive work!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 20, 2021, 12:32:56 AM
Nice job Kim...... :ThumbsUp:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 20, 2021, 12:53:03 AM
That wheel came out terrific - watching along as usual.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 20, 2021, 12:55:03 AM
That came out great!  It's a keeper to me.

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2021, 05:49:37 AM
Thanks Dave, Stuart, Don, Chris, and Joe!  :cheers:


A small blast cabinet would sure be nice to clean the wheels after silver soldering. ;)
Did you ever try boiling water to remove the flux?
No, Dave, I'm ashamed to say that I haven't tried that yet.   :embarassed:  But I'm going to!

I have to agree - single point threading is fast becoming my favourite turning job. Don't know why. Something about knowing what's going on synchronizing everything on the lathe that is just fun.
Totally agree about threading!

That came out great!  It's a keeper to me.
Unfortunately, if you saw it in person, you'd be able to see that a couple of the spokes are out of alignment.  Two directly across from each other don't line up :(  It's noticeable in a few of the close-ups.

But this was still a very worthwhile exercise for me to do!  I got a LOT of learning out of doing this, which hopefully means that the official production run will not only go more smoothly, but have fewer bungled steps!

Thanks all!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gary.a.ayres on January 20, 2021, 12:06:23 PM
Very cool work on that wheel!

:ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on January 20, 2021, 01:45:15 PM
There's a lot of work in that wheel but it looks like you have the technique sorted  :praise2:  :praise2: :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2021, 07:39:46 PM
Thanks Gary and Roger!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2021, 05:49:29 PM
Well, I’ve got a process worked out and so now I’ve started production on four drivers.  While it doesn’t sound like a lot, today I got four pucks sliced, faced, and drilled with the 1/4" center hole.  It’s a lot more work than it looks!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077g-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8058.jpg)

I don’t expect I’ll have much to post for a bit since I’ve already described the process I’m using in detail over the last several weeks. But I may show a few ‘in process’ pictures like this just to keep you abreast of my progress and just so you all know I haven’t disappeared 😊

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 24, 2021, 08:07:50 PM
As the prototype was close - it would be nice if these come out as they should  :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:    :cheers:   following along with the rest  ;)

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Brad on January 24, 2021, 08:29:06 PM
I dont know if i missed it or just over looked it. I did not seam to find your BOM spreadsheet. I am looking a starting this project. just ordered the book.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 24, 2021, 08:40:36 PM
I dont know if i missed it or just over looked it. I did not seam to find your BOM spreadsheet. I am looking a starting this project. just ordered the book.
Kozo usually has the BOM in the back of the book. Excellent books, I've learned a lot from them.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on January 25, 2021, 03:47:00 AM
I finally got caught up on your project Kim. You are doing a fantastic job on this build.

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2021, 05:41:50 AM
Thanks Per, Brad, Chris, and Jim!

Yes, Per, my prototype was pretty close, so I'm confident I can make these ones even better! :) (He says with more confidence than he feels   :agree:)

I dont know if i missed it or just over looked it. I did not seam to find your BOM spreadsheet. I am looking a starting this project. just ordered the book.
Interestingly, there is no BOM for this engine in Kozo's book.  And frankly, even if there was, I did a lot of substitutions with the materials I could find available.

Anyway, my BOM can be found in the first post, at the VERY end.  It is an attachment at the very bottom of that first post.  It's called "Kozos A3 Switcher BOM RevA.xlsm".  There are a few errors I've found in my BOM so far.  I should update it and repost.  Let me know if you're interested Brad, and I'll do that soon.  Or if you PM me I can just email it to you.  (Don't post your email to the forum - it's too easy for email addresses to get sucked up by spamers and other ner-do-wells.)

Thanks everyone,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Brad on February 06, 2021, 02:59:29 AM
Thanks Kim I have enjoyed following your build. I have decided to start one of my own
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 08, 2021, 08:50:47 PM
Great Brad! I'll be sure to follow along with your build :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Still working on the drivers.

I’ve made some progress over the last weeks.  As I said, no process shots, since it’s the same as for the prototype, but here are some progress shots.

First I did a quick layout, just to help prevent any real nasty oopsies.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8062.jpg)

Cutting the inside ark for the weight.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8064.jpg)

After milling the inside of the rim and the top side of the hub.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8068.jpg)

Next the bottom radius and both sides of the hub.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-3a-DSC_8069.jpg)

Then finally milling out all but the spoke supports (and I left them a little taller than last time).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8072.jpg)

Here’s another shot at a bit of an angle to give you a better view of the spoke supports.  Note that I left a little short piece on the inside to help cover those spokes – I was afraid that the outer support might not catch that last spoke before the weight.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077h-DrivingWheels-5-DSC_8075.jpg)

And that’s it for milling the basic shape.  Next will be the 1/8” ball-nose mill to make channels for the spokes.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 10, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Nice progress Kim and I am sure you'll do them proud....... :Love:


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 10, 2021, 10:23:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 11, 2021, 12:40:13 AM
Nice wheel-production line!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on February 11, 2021, 12:53:39 AM
Weird question: Have you decided on a color for the wheels?

I went with black, thinking it was more "prototype", but the red sure pop's nicely.

It's the only thing I've painted so far - - a must-do as it would be so much harder to do it after adhering the wheels to the axles.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 11, 2021, 01:19:11 AM
Nice progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2021, 06:03:20 AM
Thanks, everyone, appreciate the kind words.

Matthew, I'm going to paint them red.  I don't know how prototypical it is, but I really like the way it looks.  And it'll match the color of the Tender wheels too.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2021, 11:53:38 PM
I continue to plod away on the drivers.  It’s been several weeks and I’ve made good progress, but there’s a lot of work here, and up till now, it's been just a few hours a week… Hopefully, with my new retirement schedule that will change! 😊

Here’s a quick synopsis of the last four weeks of work:

In the last update, I left off with the four wheel blanks milled out, separating the rim, the weight, and the hub.

The next step was to cut the channels for the spokes.  There are 12 spokes per wheel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077i-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8077.jpg)

Following this, I cut 50 spoke blanks.  I only need 48 but cut 2 extras just for luck.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077i-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8079.jpg)

Here’s a shot of them trimmed to length and with one edge rounded (this will be the ‘outer’ edge of the spoke, but will face down in the current orientation of the wheels).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077i-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8083.jpg)

Now, I missed getting a picture of this, but next was to round one end of all the spokes and both ends of 16 of the spokes.  Following this, I went through the process of trimming things here and there to get them to all fit together:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077i-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8093.jpg)

I really like the change I made in the supports - I made them a little taller so they have a ‘guide’ slot in them for the spokes.  The spokes now feel very secure and I think it will really help keep things in place during soldering…. Which is what’s up next!

And that my friends, brings you up to date on my saga.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 07, 2021, 12:19:32 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Re the soldering - may the heat be with you....... :Lol:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on March 07, 2021, 12:26:34 AM
Nice work Kim, good luck with the rest of the wheel build
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 07, 2021, 01:33:39 AM
Nice mass production of wheels - for the soldering, May The Flux Be With You! 

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 07, 2021, 04:34:36 AM
Looking great Kim I am sure you learned from the first wheel and ready to take these one. You got this bud!..... :Love:




 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2021, 05:19:13 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence on the soldering, everyone!  I'm going to need it.  I am a little worried about it.  While I did learn from the first one, the soldering process always worries me a little till I get it done.  But I'm confident I can get it licked.  It may take me a time or two, but I'll muddle through it somehow!  :zap:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Barneydog on March 07, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
Hi Kim,
Looking good.
Retirement give more time? No chance! There will be more jobs to do

Julian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2021, 08:09:36 PM
Pushing ever forward on the drivers…

With the wheel blanks milled out and the spokes shaped and in place, the next step is to solder the assemblies together.  This was a big operation for me.  I’ve never silver soldered anything with anywhere near this much thermal mass!  But I managed to get them all done, much better than my prototype, I might add.  And each one in a single heating session. The heating sessions would last 30+ minutes.  It would take 5-10 minutes to get the thing up near temperature, then I’d go along the bottom of the rim and solder the spokes there, then do the same to the top spokes where they attached to the hub. I’d do 4-6 of them in one position, where gravity would help the solder flow where I wanted it.  Then I’d turn off the torch, use some implements to turn the wheel a bit, light up the torch, and go at another set of spokes.  Using this method, I kept the part up close to temperature, which saved time in having to re-heat the whole unit. Since the flux would burn off after the first little bit (yes, even using the Harris Black flux) I would just dip the end of the solder in the flux and use that to apply both solder and flux.  It actually worked out pretty well.  But the part was so hot I had to use a welding glove on my solder hand to keep it from cooking.  This made it a little harder to finesse the solder and flux around, but I got the hang of it after awhile.

Anyway, here’s just after finishing up one of the wheels.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8102.jpg)

And here’s all four of them, after soldering and some pickling (but still in need of some significant clean-up).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8108.jpg)

Here’s another shot of the “Pop Top” when I’d skim the front side down to get rid of the part that was holding it all together for soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8112.jpg)

And here’s after peeling that part out.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8116.jpg)

Unfortunately, I found this to be a pretty finicky operation.  I had to be very careful as I got close to depth because if I got a little too deep before removing all the ‘removable’ parts, the thin metal would catch on the tool and tear out a chunk.  All those parts were supposed to come out, but I needed to be careful of them coming out while the lathe was running! One time a chunk caught and twisted my tool post a little. Luckily, nothing was damaged. I just reset the post and went on – AFTER removing all the pieces from the work that I could.  So, while removing these pop-top parts was cool, it didn’t usually work out that way. I usually ended up removing them in pieces, as you can see from my collection below:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-5-DSC_8136.jpg)

And here’s a shot with all four of the production run drivers shaved down to their correct width:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-6-DSC_8121.jpg)

And finally, with the rim added and the driving pin drilled and reamed to 9/32”. The fifth wheel (off to the left side) is the original prototype. While not readily visible in this photo, some of the spokes on that driver are all cockeyed, which is how it became the prototype, instead of the first produced driver! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077j-DrivingWheels-7-DSC_8128.jpg)


All’s left to do on the drivers is probably a little more clean-up, then the painting job!
They need to be painted before I can mount the pin.

Thanks for following along on this slow but determined journey of mine!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 21, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
That is excellent!! Quite a lot of joints to do on each wheel, very well done!!   :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 21, 2021, 09:14:45 PM
Oh man they really look 'Orible .... at least in the first pictures  ;) .... but they clean up very well, and I expect that the will look fantastic when you are finished with surface treatment ....  :ThumbsUp:

Are they going to be - a) Painted,  b) Blackned, c) Nickel coated, or d) something I haven't imagined  ;D

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 21, 2021, 09:16:05 PM
Stupid me - they should match the ones on the Tender  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 21, 2021, 10:34:18 PM
Kim you did yourself proud bud,  the solder job looks awesome and the driver wheels will look great when painted. Your skills have come a long way and excellent....... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 21, 2021, 11:11:43 PM
Absolutely awesome. What a job!

What'd you do for stress relief? I mean for you?  ;D
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on March 21, 2021, 11:31:19 PM
Those turned out great! 

Well done Kim!

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 22, 2021, 12:19:10 AM
Nicely done Kim!
They look fantastic!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2021, 04:11:47 AM
Thanks for the kind comments everyone!

Yes, in those early pictures the wheels do look a fright!  But that's really just all the black flux baked onto them with a nice helping of soot and scale.  A little work with some needle files and a mini-wire wheel on my Dremel took care of most of that.  I wanted to try Dave's "Boil them in water" approach to getting rid of the scaling, but I didn't have a pan to boil them in. And I wasn't too keen on using one of my wife's good kitchen pans!  I'll have t pick up an old pan for 85 cents at Good Will to use for this sort of thing next time...

As for finishing, I will be powder coating them in red, just like the tender wheels were done.  And I think that will really improve their overall look! :)

As for stress relief?  I usually listen to NPR while out in my shop and I find "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" to be great stress relief   :ROFL:

Thanks, everyone!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2021, 10:20:37 AM
Hi Kim,
very interesting to see the way how to do it.
They are looking very nice.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 23, 2021, 01:15:19 PM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: The production wheels cleaned up well  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2021, 03:41:27 PM
Thanks Achim and Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2021, 11:08:26 PM
I spent several more hours sprucing up the drivers then did the painting prep; a really good cleaning followed by the masking.  Not an insignificant operation in itself!

Then I got out the powder coating gun and went to work.  Here are all four of the drivers with the powder applied, waiting for the oven to heat up!  (I’d turned it on, but don’t you know – I forgot to plug it in!  :facepalm2: )
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077k-DrivingWheels-1-DSC_8141.jpg)

But it didn’t take long to get up to temp, and I put those puppies in the easy-bake and waited for the paint to flow.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077k-DrivingWheels-2-DSC_8143.jpg)

After the wheels cooled down I removed the masking and then went to work cleaning up the pain edges.  This was very similar to the tender wheels, so I didn’t show much of this.  Also reamed out the holes to get rid of any pain that I got in there (you can see a bunch in the hole for the pin.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077k-DrivingWheels-3-DSC_8147.jpg)

After the clean-up, they look pretty good!  I’m pleased anyway :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077k-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8149.jpg)

Boy, now I’m not sure what to do with myself – I’ve been doing those drivers for so long!  I’ll have to look and see what’s next :)

Thanks for sticking with me through the whole long-drawn-out process!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 23, 2021, 11:10:52 PM
Those came out great!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 23, 2021, 11:52:02 PM
Very nice!  :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 24, 2021, 01:10:20 AM
Looks great Kim that red really stands out love it. I see you have a powder coat oven that’s a nice addition. I took a toaster oven about that size and install a temperature  controller for $38 with temp probe, control cube, and heat sink. Haven’t finished tuning it up, it over shoots about 5 degrees which is not bad.

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2021, 03:58:29 AM
Thanks, Chris, Dave, and Don!

I took a toaster oven about that size and install a temperature controller for $38 with temp probe, control cube, and heat sink. Haven’t finished tuning it up, it over shoots about 5 degrees which is not bad.

Yeah, I looked at getting an old toaster oven but didn't find anything used for a reasonable price in my area.  New ones that would go up to 450o were about $80 new and that's about what this one cost me from Eastwood.  Plus, I liked the fact that it had a big glass door and the interior size was actually larger than anything I could find (at least, anything that provided inside measurements anyway). 

I don't think the temperature settings have to be too accurate for baking the powder coat.  This one Eastwood sells is just a toaster oven with their name on it.  There's nothing special about it (other than its got a pretty good sized area inside and the nice big glass door on the front.  Some of them I looked at, the doors were smaller, or didn't open all the way.  This one opens nice ang big and gives you the entire width and height to get things in and out. Which I think is a real plus too.)

I'll bet your toaster oven will be great for powder coating!

Or were you planning to use it for something else?  Making pizzas maybe?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 24, 2021, 10:45:38 AM
 8)  8)  8)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 24, 2021, 11:53:34 AM
I love the wheels - especially those two where you 'only have a red stripe' round the recessed edge of the counterweight - gives them an extra touch of Class  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2021, 05:37:25 PM
Thanks for the comments Roger and Per!

I love the wheels - especially those two where you 'only have a red stripe' round the recessed edge of the counterweight - gives them an extra touch of Class  :praise2:

I agree - it does give it a sharp look!

I should have clarified when I posted the picture originally, but all four wheels are painted exactly the same.  It's just that two are turned over to show the backside (the top two with more red). On the back, everything between the central hub and the rim is recessed 1/16". The bottom two are showing the front side where the entire hub, counter-weight, and rim are all at the same level - so just the spokes and the v-groove that defines the inside of the rim are painted. This is one of the things that made the masking process a bit complex!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/077k-DrivingWheels-4-DSC_8149.jpg)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 24, 2021, 08:27:58 PM
Kim have you ever thought of pllating the rest of the metal? Micro Mark has plating for nickel chrome and I have used it on one of my engines to stop it from resting. The other engines I built,  I use stainless on them. If it’s not kept oiled they will rust even in your home. Another way to keep them from rusting is to put them in doll cases with the top completely sealed and throw some desiccant in it. I keep my brass engines in them and the patina stays one color. Only terminal expansion cases air to move in and out of it.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: zeeprogrammer on March 24, 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Better than commercial grade! Awesome work.
Wow, you have a come a long way.

And I enjoy your source of stress relief as well.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on March 25, 2021, 12:59:13 AM
Nicely done Kim!     Kozo would be very proud of those!!!!.  I remember reading that build series when it came out....great read!!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2021, 03:53:46 AM
Thanks Don, Zee, and Dave! :)   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Barneydog on March 26, 2021, 01:29:12 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :cartwheel: :cartwheel:

Nice job Kim

Cheers

Julian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 26, 2021, 02:42:46 PM
Wheels look great Kim, major milestone!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2021, 04:12:30 PM
Thanks Julian and CNR!
Yes, it feels pretty good to have those drivers done! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on March 28, 2021, 08:37:55 AM
Nice work on those wheels Kim!
They really look the part.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2021, 07:58:15 PM
Thanks Kerrin! :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
Over the weekend I did several small parts.  So I’ll have a few short posts to bring the build log up to date.  These parts go much faster than the wheels!

Chapter 12.2 – Driving Wheel Axles

The driver axels were super simple.  A length of 7/16” steel rod (12L14) trimmed to a specific length with little center holes in each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/078a-DrivingWheelAxles-01-DSC_8153.jpg)

Not sure what the center holes in the ends are for, but they are clearly shown on the plans, so I put them there!

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2021, 08:04:08 PM
Chapter 12.3 – Pump Eccentric and Lubricator Eccentric

There are two eccentrics on the rear axle; one that powers the water pump and that powers the oil pump.  The eccentric for the water pump is a tich over 1” in diameter, and has a 0.2” offset, therefore a 0.4” movement for each revolution.  The one for the lubrication system is a little smaller (just under 1”) with a 1/8” offset (or total throw of 1/4").

I made both eccentrics from 12L14 round bar.  I started by taking the diameter to the specified size, then using a modified cut-off tool to cut the groove 7/32” wide as shown.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-01-DSC_8158.jpg)

I touched it with a center drill, just to mark the center, then cut the part off the parent (no picture of these, but trust me, I did it!) and flipped it around and faced off the backside.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-02-DSC_8162.jpg)

Here are the two eccentrics up to that stage – you can see the center mark on them so you have proof that I did what I said :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-03-DSC_8163.jpg)

On the mill, I used the laser center to zero in on the center spot I’d made.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-04-DSC_8166.jpg)

Then from there, I offset 0.200”  (or 0.125” for the smaller one) and drilled, in steps, up to just under 7/16”. I followed that with a 7/16” reamer (implied, but not shown).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-05-DSC_8167.jpg)

With the axle hole drilled, I drilled and tapped a 5-40 hole for a set screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-06-DSC_8173.jpg)

And here are the two completed eccentrics – the one on the left is the Pump Eccentric, and the one on the right is the Lubricator Eccentric.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/079a-Eccentrics-07-DSC_8176.jpg)

And that completes the eccentrics.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2021, 08:08:19 PM
Chapter 12.4 – Crankpins

Next up were the crankpins.

These were almost as simple as the axles, but I did have to shave these down to size. Since I didn’t have any 7/32” rod, I took a 5/16” rod (12L14 again) and cut it down to 7/32”.  The center section was also dusted off by 0.001” to make a better rotating fit for the rods.  You can almost imagine it in this picture!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/080a-Crankpins-01-DSC_8179.jpg)

Then I cut off the pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/080a-Crankpins-02-DSC_8180.jpg)

After they were removed from the parent stock I flipped them around in a 7/32” collet and faced the backside off to get the exact length specified.

And here are the two completed pins, ready to be loctited into the drivers.  But that’s going to have to wait till after I quarter the wheels.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/080a-Crankpins-03-DSC_8183.jpg)

And that brings you up to date on where I am in the build. 

Next up will be the side rod pins, then I’ll quarter the wheels on the axles. And that’s like a serious train thing to do!  You know you’re really building a steam locomotive when you have to quarter your wheels!

Thanks for checking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on March 29, 2021, 11:12:22 PM
Those pins have some crazy tolerances. You can imagine me reading the drawings, then looking at my 7x16 mini-lathe, then back to the drawing, then frowning at the mini lathe ....

I made it work by doing the last few tenths with hand files!  In the end it not sure that level of tolerance was really necessary. But here we are.

I think with your skills and tooling it may not have been such a big deal for you!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2021, 04:56:34 AM
Those pins have some crazy tolerances. You can imagine me reading the drawings, then looking at my 7x16 mini-lathe, then back to the drawing, then frowning at the mini lathe ....

I made it work by doing the last few tenths with hand files!  In the end it not sure that level of tolerance was really necessary. But here we are.

Yeah, it was pretty interesting - one of the few parts where Kozo specifies down to tenths of a thousandth! But I'm not really sure if it would make any difference if you left the entire length of the pin at 7/32" - a close fit for the 7/32" reamed holes in the wheel (glued) and in the bearings (a sliding, but not-slopy fit)!

Regardless, I 'tried' to follow his tolerances.  Not sure I really made it, but I'm guessing it would pass the Close-Enough quality check of my shop!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 30, 2021, 12:47:00 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2021, 01:31:47 AM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:


Not a lot of shop time lately.  I thought it would take longer for all that doom and gloom prediction about not having any time when you retire!  Boy, was I wrong! I’ve had so much stuff come up in the last week it’s unbelievable!  And yesterday I thought I’d get some shop time.  But I remembered I’d taken the hitch out of the back of the truck to help with a move (some of that stuff that came up that I mentioned) and we’re hoping to do some traveling soon.  Plus, I wanted to get that big hitch out of the middle of my shop.  So I loaded it back into the bed of the truck.  But it didn’t fit where it came from – took me hours to get it back in.  Well, at least that “simple” job got done!  Plus, while I was at it, scooting things around to get at my shop hoist, etc., I came across a part that I’d dropped a year or two ago!  I remember looking for it for a LONG time – longer than it took to re-make it of course.  But here's the lost little sheep (after 2 years AWOL).  Guess I found one of the shop gnome’s hiding spots!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-1-DSC_8186.jpg)

Anyway, today I did get some time to play.  I continued on making the crankpins.  Last installment finished up with the crankpins – but those were just the rear crankpins.  The front crankpins are much shorter and they will have a small pin going through them that will attach the side rods.

These were also turned from the 5/16” 12L14 round rod.  Turned it down to 7/32”, drilled a 1/8” hole all the way through, and reamed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-2-DSC_8190.jpg)

Cut it off, turned it around, and faced it off to the specified length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-3-DSC_8193.jpg)




Chapter 12.5 – Side Rod Pins

Next up are what Kozo calls the Side Rod Pins.  These will go through the front crankpin to hold the side rods to the front wheels.

The side rod pins have a very big head, so they are made from 7/16” diameter 12L14 steel rod.  Here I’ve turned down a short length to the required 1/8” (actually, Kozo specifies 0.123” – so it rotates easily in the 1/8” hole of the front pins) and cut a narrow groove in the end for a retaining e-clip.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-4-DSC_8195.jpg)

With the groove in the end cut, I completed bringing the pin down to a uniform 0.123”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-5-DSC_8198.jpg)

After cutting it off from the parent stock, I flipped it around in a 1/8” collet and faced off the top side of the pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-6-DSC_8200.jpg)

And here are all crankpin pieces I made today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/081a-SideRodPins-7-DSC_8204.jpg)

The next activity will be to make a quartering Jig!
Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 03, 2021, 01:37:18 AM
Maybe the shop gnomes sent that part back as a retirement gift. Though, hopefully they didn't take two others...




Great progress, very well done!    :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2021, 06:05:20 AM
 Thanks Chris!  :cheers:

A retirement gift!  How thoughtful  O:-)
If only they'd be as thoughtful 2 years ago when it would have done me some good!  :LittleDevil:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 03, 2021, 01:18:07 PM
For future powder coating, I suggest buying the set of silicon plugs Eastwood sells.  Use them to plug holes that shouldn't get powder inside.  For tapped holes, a screw works just as well.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
Thanks for the pointer, KVOM, appreciate it!
I'll have to look into getting some of those, though it really wasn't too hard to re-ream the hole.  Keeping it out in the first place is probably the best idea.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
Chapter 12.6 – Quartering

To make the quartering jig, I pulled out all my latent woodworking skills.  I cut a couple of blanks to be the ends for the jig, nice and square, double-sticky taped them together, then, with some packing to hold them off the face of the RT, I milled the 90o shape in one end of the blanks.  I milled the required ‘lump’ right into the shape.  The lump had to be 7/64” up from the main ‘V’ shape.  That’s because the Axle is 7/16” diameter, but the crankpins are only 9/32”.  So, I made up for that diameter difference in the shape of the V.  This is what Kozo shows in his book and I’m sure is standard practice, but all new to me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-1-DSC_8206.jpg)

Here’s the jig all assembled.  You can see the crisp beautiful job I did with the re-used lumber scraps I had laying around :)  The “NO” and “USE” labeling are to help me remember which side to hold the pins against while the Loctite is curing.  (Right side leading.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-2-DSC_8210.jpg)

Here are the rear wheels, sitting on the jig curing.  The trick with the rear wheels was to make sure and remember the eccentrics for the water and lubrication pumps.  You can see the crankpins are inserted so they stick out the back of the wheel.  They aren’t being glued; they are just being used as a guide right now.  I’ll be gluing those in next.  But first, let's get the wheels quartered.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-3-DSC_8212.jpg)

Another shot of the rear wheels curing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-4-DSC_8215.jpg)

After a bit, I set the rear wheels aside and did the front wheels.   And here they are after quartering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-5-DSC_8218.jpg)

Once these cure overnight I’ll be Loctiteing the crankpins in place.

That’s it for this update!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 04, 2021, 10:49:13 PM
What an elegant jig! Never seen that kind before.

And its nice to see someone else using 'free-range metal' for jigs! Dug out of those surface mines called 'forests'...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2021, 11:06:23 PM
What an elegant jig! Never seen that kind before.

And its nice to see someone else using 'free-range metal' for jigs! Dug out of those surface mines called 'forests'...

Gives a whole different meaning to strip mining, eh?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on April 05, 2021, 02:04:49 AM
Chapter 12.6 – Quartering

To make the quartering jig, I pulled out all my latent woodworking skills. ....  This is what Kozo shows in his book and I’m sure is standard practice, but all new to me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/082a-Quartering-1-DSC_8206.jpg)

....

That’s it for this update!
Kim

Great work as usual!

For the future reference of others  (I hope Kim does not mind) ...  you can make this jig w/o a rotary table. Secure the two ends to one another as Kim did - they MUST be machined together (mine were aluminum so I screwed them together). Then you can clamp this to your milling machine table, angled to 45* (I used a Combination square. This only needs to be close to 45). Be sure to put something underneath them, like plywood, to not mill your table!

Now, you m ill that inside “V” using x and y feed, one axis at a time. This will get you the 90* “v” you need.  There is a jog in the parts that is oriented differently on each side of the jig - so you will need to flip one of the ends before assembly. In a sense, that makes the most critical part of this jig drilling the holes used to bolt each side of the jig to the base such that the ends are perfectly aligned.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on April 05, 2021, 03:36:00 AM
A lot of good stuff happening in this thread, looking good Kim!


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 05, 2021, 05:39:41 AM
For the future reference of others  (I hope Kim does not mind) ... 
Kim not only doesn't mind, he welcomes it!  Additional info is AWAYS welcome and encouraged! Thank you, Matthew!

you can make this jig w/o a rotary table. Secure the two ends to one another as Kim did - they MUST be machined together (mine were aluminum so I screwed them together). Then you can clamp this to your milling machine table, angled to 45* (I used a Combination square. This only needs to be close to 45). Be sure to put something underneath them, like plywood, to not mill your table!

Now, you mill that inside “V” using x and y feed, one axis at a time. This will get you the 90* “v” you need.  There is a jog in the parts that is oriented differently on each side of the jig - so you will need to flip one of the ends before assembly. In a sense, that makes the most critical part of this jig drilling the holes used to bolt each side of the jig to the base such that the ends are perfectly aligned.

I was originally going to do that - make the jog on one leg of the "V", then flip one of them over... but at least in my situation, I decided to do a jog on BOTH legs.  That way if my "V" was off-center, it wouldn't matter - both sides remained in the same orientation as they were milled.  I just  made sure to mark which 'jog' I used on which side.

Now my follow-up question for you Matthew -  I considered doing this in aluminum but decided that I could be accurate enough with wood.  Maybe that's not the case?  If I'm off by a few thou, will that cause me problems?  I did try to keep things quite square and accurate, but undoubtedly, it is not as accurate as if I'd assembled it with aluminum.  I'm sure its off a little bit... I was assuming that it would be close enough to 90 degrees, and the front and rear axels are 'quartered' in the same jig, so will have the same misalignment, if any.

Was that a bad call? (he asks in retrospect? - learning for the future.)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 05, 2021, 05:40:02 AM
A lot of good stuff happening in this thread, looking good Kim!


 :cheers:
Don

Thanks Don!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on April 05, 2021, 07:46:02 AM
Hi Kim, I like the jig.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 05, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
Wood always has it's uses  :)  :)

I often wonder how accurate the quartering and rod bearings must be  :headscratch: There must be an fair amount of play to allow for suspension movement. I remember someone over tightening the drive chains on a small 2' gauge petrol locomotive. It promptly derailed on the first set of points it drove over  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on April 05, 2021, 01:03:55 PM

Was that a bad call? (he asks in retrospect? - learning for the future.)
Kim

Well, as I’ve completed exactly zero model engines, I am no authority.  Others are better to ask.

I have made some jigs from wood. I am betting you will be all right. Setting the wheels is a low force activity.

 I have slight binding in mine in one part of the wheel revolution that I suspect will go away as the bearings are worn In.

I won’t personally cast stones at Kozo, but someone who seemed to have experience commented the specified tolerances are too tight for the realities of running a model steam engine over an imperfect track!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on April 05, 2021, 01:46:49 PM
I quartered mine on a surface plate with the aid of v-blocks and gauge blocks, so quite precise in theory.  Any flexing when running is accommodated by the rods.  Once both axles are mounted to the frames you'll see how smooth the motion is.  Once I had the frame and axle assembly, a tow around the track was a good test.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 05, 2021, 05:17:21 PM
Thank you Achim, Roger, Matthew, and Kvom,

Appreciate your insights and thoughts on this.  I guess we'll see how it turns out and have another data point on the accuracy of quartering :)

Thanks,
Kim


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2021, 12:00:12 AM
Chapter 13.1 – Side Rods

After Loctiting the pins in place on the drivers, I started work on the side rods.  To help make the side rods the correct length, Kozo creates a crafty little jig that lets you adjust the length between holes. It has one fixed pin and one that has an offset eccentric pin.  By rotating that pin you can change the length +/- by just a smidge.  But it seemed like a great idea, so today I made one.

It's all pretty simple operations so I didn’t show any specific machining except for the eccentric pin. After drilling a hole on center with the 7/16” portion of the pin, I offset it by 0.020” in the 4-jaw and created a slightly smaller eccentric secondary pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/083a-SideRodDrillingJig-1-DSC_8221.jpg)

Here are all the pieces to the drilling jig.  When yo put the eccentric bushing in one side, you can rotate it and it will vary the distance between the two 7/16” pins by +/- 0.040”.  As I said, I thought it was pretty ingenious!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/083a-SideRodDrillingJig-2-DSC_8223.jpg)

Here’s the jig assembled.  The fixed pin is Loctited into place. And the eccentric one is left to be able to turn.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/083a-SideRodDrillingJig-3-DSC_8227.jpg)

Here I’m fitting the jig into the axle bushings on the engine frame.  Once I found the right distance between the axle bushings, checking BOTH the left and right side of the frames, I put a drop of Loctite on the eccentric bushing and left it to set.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/083a-SideRodDrillingJig-4-DSC_8233.jpg)

Here’s a shot of the jig setting next to the axle bushings on the frame, just to help you see what’s behind the jig.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/083a-SideRodDrillingJig-5-DSC_8230.jpg)

Next time I’ll be using that jig that is now set for the exact length of the side rods.

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 06, 2021, 12:20:49 AM
Neat setup!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on April 06, 2021, 01:12:06 AM
Excellent - yes very ingenious idea for that fixture. Definitely putting that one in the memory bank.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2021, 05:20:06 AM
Thanks Chris and Stuart,

Yes, very slick little jig.  Of course, I can take no credit, it came straight from Kozo's book.  Or maybe the only credit I can take is having read the book!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on April 06, 2021, 08:14:27 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work on the jig.
If I’ve got it somewhere close to right, if your jig isn’t exactly 90 it isn’t the end of the world, as long as both are the same which your jig should do.
The side rod jig is a neat idea, if you have got it so it fits both side you have done some very good work!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 06, 2021, 01:18:16 PM
Re the quatering - disclaimer I have never done any ....

Logic dictates that the angle isn't the most important - BUT that the angle is exactly the same on ALL driver wheels that are connected with siderods ....
If Not - you will get a more or less partly lockup when turning the wheels ...!

I wish that I could claim the origin for the siderod adjustment too Kim - simple and elegant.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Thanks Kerrin and Per,
Yes, that sounds right to me.  Guess we'll find out soon enough!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2021, 07:28:48 PM
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track?   I've looked around some and haven't found too many options.  At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now.  I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.

Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on April 07, 2021, 07:48:03 PM
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track?   I've looked around some and haven't found too many options.  At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now.  I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.

Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim

Man, I'd love to know this too.

Research I did early on lead me down the path of "rolling your own" using LGB-sized rails and your own scale-sized wood ties.
That was really for static display purposes though - not for running from what I can tell.
I liked the idea but set it aside in lieu of model progress!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 07, 2021, 09:35:31 PM
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track?   I've looked around some and haven't found too many options.  At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now.  I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.

Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Kim,
Contact Jason at The Train Department, he carries a few brands. You can ask him for either individual rails or made up sections. I had bought a couple 6' lengths when I built my Shay, still have some and can mail you some chunks if you cannot get them elsewhere. They are shaped like the real thing, just smaller, and are available in a couple different metals. The makers are usually smalll home-businesses, and some from the past have gone away as they retired. Here is his website:
https://www.thetraindepartment.com/track-and-switches/

If you cant find what you need there, let me know!
Chris
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on April 07, 2021, 10:52:36 PM
Another step compete and well executed. Looking great Kim.....  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dan Rowe on April 07, 2021, 11:33:17 PM
Something I've been meaning to ask - does anyone know where you can get some 3.5" track?   I've looked around some and haven't found too many options.  At one time, I found a place where you could get a track-shaped piece of steel (I-beam kind of thing) that was scale size for 3/4" - it was like a 6 or 8 foot length. But I can't find that now.  I'd take pre-made track sections too, but I haven't been able to find that.

Any pointers would be very welcome!
Kim
Kim how much rail do you need? Jason only has G1 track in his store. The rail is listed as code 250 for Sunset Valley track this means the rail is .25" tall. LBG track is code 332 or .332" tall. For most G1 scales code 332 is huge. (elephant track)

It is common to use 1" tall rail for 1.5" scale so .5" or .625" would be good for 3/4" scale.
Here is a link to a discussion about 3.5" track:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=83559
Here are some possible sources of rail and more ideas, the groovy rail system uses flat steel sections with slots cut in the ties to support the rails similar to the tube spacers used in the first link.
http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=IBLS_Track_Standard

I found 3.5" track on EbayUK but the shipping was more than the track.

Cheers Dan
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2021, 12:02:09 AM
Dan is right, there are a lot of different sizes, depending on scale of model, narrow vs standard guage, all that. The stuff I used for the Shay base is the 250 code, this is what it looks like with the model. May not be totally accurate, but it looks nice for display.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MySn63w/DSC-7410.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dan Rowe on April 08, 2021, 02:48:58 AM
Here is a link to rail used in the US and the major railroads are listed. This works for scale tracks.
http://www.icrr.net/rails.htm

If this rail is for ride on live steam tracks the rail has to be sized for the load which is the big folks on the train so that is why 5/8" rail seems to be the choice.

The Pennsylvania RR used 5" 0r 5.5" rail so code 332 rail would work well for scale rail.

Chris code 250 rail works out to about 50 pounds per yard which is I think works but I did not check my Shay catalogs.

Cheers Dan
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2021, 05:25:02 AM
Wow!  Thanks Matthew, Chris, Dan, for the great comments on where to find track.  I'll have to look into these various sites.  Lots of good info here!

Thanks Don, for the encouraging words!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Barneydog on April 13, 2021, 09:00:02 PM
Hi Kim,
Jumping back a page to your quartering. Nice Jig you made. My jig is made from wood and will suit any wheels upto 7" and any size axles and pins. You saw it in my Sweet Pea posts but I did not give much detail as it is being printed in the next issue of Engineering in Miniature mag.

There is nothing wrong with wood....why waste ali?  So long as all your wheels are quartered on the same jig and match they will be ok. Ninety degrees is the preferred but if they are 88 or 92 it does not matter as long as ALL the axles are identical. You will soon know if they are not!

Cheers

Julian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 13, 2021, 11:55:18 PM
Thanks Julian!

Once I get the side rods done, THEN we'll know :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 16, 2021, 10:55:23 PM
I’ll apologize in advance for the length of this post – I’ve been working on the side rods and they were complicated beasts! It’s taken me almost two weeks to finish these guys.  In addition, I got my 2nd shot and that took me out for a day or so.  Anyway,  here it goes...

The side rods were made from lengths of 1/4" x 3/4" 1018 CRS.  Before machining, I stress relieved them by heating them up with the torch till they were nice and cherry red all over.  After keeping them hot for a while so they got a nice soak, I let them cool slowly. This is my attempt to keep them from going banana-shaped when machined.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-01-DSC_8234.jpg)


While the parts were cooling, I made a 7/16” counterbore. This will be needed for the side rods in a future step.  The guide is 9mm (0.3543”) and the upper part with the cutter is 7/16”.  I made it a single tooth cutter hoping it would work OK. And it did – not excellent, but good enough.  I tried to file in a little relief in the single tooth then harden the steel (this was done with W-1 tool steel).  Also, that little divot right in the tip of the guide is a mistake.  I didn’t have the mill pulled back far enough while I was setting the height.  Ah well – I just made sure to file that down so there wasn’t a sharp edge.  Didn’t really affect the performance of the tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-04-DSC_8248.jpg)


After the stress relief, I needed to machine the 1/4" width down to 0.200”.  I first tried the face mill, but I didn’t like how that sounded with the interrupted cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-02-DSC_8238.jpg)

So I switched to using my standard method for this kind of op.  I took some off of each side, then went back and did one final pass of a few thou on each side.  They stayed nice and straight.  So the strain relief and the symmetrical operations on each side must have helped (he says optimistically).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-03-DSC_8244.jpg)

Next, I blued the parts and did a little layout work.  Here are the two nascent side rods, the drilling jig, and the 7/16” counterbore.  You can see how it will be used to create the counterbore shown in the A-A section drawing on the right side of the sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-05-DSC_8250.jpg)

Now to use the drilling jig.  First, I drilled and reamed one of the 9mm holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-06-DSC_8255.jpg)

Then, using the drilling jig that I’d set previously, measured out exactly where to drill the second hole in the side rod.  As it turns out, it was EXACLTY 5.5000”.  :) Go figure.  I could have skipped the whole drilling jig after all!  But now I know for SURE that my processes were tight enough that I ended up where I expected.  Not always the case, but this time, it worked out.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-07-DSC_8256.jpg)

After drilling and reaming both holes, I lined up the two side rods, back to back, using a 0.354” gauge pin and the guide on the counterbore, then clamped them in the mill vice and milled a rough top profile in the parts.  I did actually remove the counterbore before I did the milling.  I just put it back in for this picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-08-DSC_8264.jpg)

Following this step, I counterbored the outside front hole in each side rod.  As of this step, the side rods are officially left and right-handed.  They are no longer interchangeable.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-09-DSC_8268.jpg)

You can see the basic profile in the rods here.  And see that one rod is LEFT and the other is RIGHT.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-10-DSC_8276.jpg)

To round the ends of the rod, I used the rotary table.  I zeroed in the center of the table, then positioned one of the end holes directly over it using the 0.354” gauge pin, and clamped it in place.  With that, I plunged a 1/4" mill around the outside edge of the circle – about 20 thou bigger than my final size.  (I did a bunch of trigonometry before this to know what angle to start and stop each of the sections – and I was pretty close!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-11-DSC_8281.jpg)

Then I went in and took off the peaks and the final few thou just rotating the RT.  The final cut was climb-milled to give a better finish.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-12-DSC_8282.jpg)

All four holes rounded off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-13-DSC_8285.jpg)

The next step is to take the sides down to size.  For this operation, I needed yet another simple jig.  This one required a couple of bushings – 9mm bushing with 1/4" holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-14-DSC_8288.jpg)

I drilled and tapped (1/4 – 20) two holes in a length of 1”x1” aluminum stock.  This lets me securely hold the side rods on edge so I could bring the width down to the required 1/8”.  Here it is all set up waiting for the first side to be carved:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-15-DSC_8304.jpg)

And just after the first side was carved.  I was only taking off about 37.5 thousandths, but I did it in a few passes, with the last pass being a small climb cut.  Notice that I left about 1/8” along the bottom at full width.  This is to provide additional rigidity while machining the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-16-DSC_8301.jpg)

Then I flipped the rod around in the jig, put a few shims behind the cut-off portion to help give it additional rigidity, and milled off this side exactly the same as the first.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-17-DSC_8307.jpg)

Here’s the current profile of the side rods after that last step.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-18-DSC_8311.jpg)

Back into the holding jig, but on its side this time.  I used a roughing mill to take off the bulk of the material that was left after the last step.  I deviated from Kozo’s instructions here.  He says to use a slitting saw to take off that portion, but I couldn’t figure out how to get a slitting saw in there without damaging the round holes on each end.  So I just went with milling it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-19-DSC_8313.jpg)

Switched to a standard mill for the last few passes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-20-DSC_8318.jpg)

To clean up the tooling marks, I wrapped some sandpaper around a 3/16” rod and slid the Jig back and forth. This helped to clean up all four sides (though on further review, I think I need to do more sanding).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-21-DSC_8326.jpg)

The last step is to drill and tap holes in each end of the side rods (2-56).  I assume these are oil holes, though it doesn’t ever quite say.  And I’m not sure why they are taped.  Nothing ever screws into these holes that I can see.  Maybe it just helps with making the oil drain more slowly or something?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-22-DSC_8330.jpg)

And the final beauty shot of the side rods.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/084a-SideRods-23-DSC_8336.jpg)

Thanks for sticking with it through the end!  It was a long story, but a lot happened :)

And thanks for checking in with me,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 16, 2021, 11:05:04 PM
Great sequence, worked great!  On the counterbore, did you harden/temper it?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Barneydog on April 16, 2021, 11:08:21 PM
Hi Kim,

Looking good. Retirement is starting to pay off!!

Cheers

Julian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on April 16, 2021, 11:13:04 PM
A lot of work in those parts.  Came out excellent!

Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 17, 2021, 12:36:18 AM
Nice work on the rods Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 17, 2021, 12:40:50 AM
Nice work Kim!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 17, 2021, 12:57:31 AM
That's really nice work Kim, both the parts and the write-up.

It would seem that those little tapped holes would be for a small oil cup, but when I reviewed my copy of the book the bushings aren't shown as being drilled, so oil wouldn't get through anyway. Maybe a dummy oil cup was intended? I couldn't find a single photo or drawing showing the side rods assembled in anything other than a "rods down" position, in which case that area is always hidden from view. I imagine you looked too, but I got curious.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 17, 2021, 03:25:52 AM
Great looking side rods  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 17, 2021, 05:11:40 AM
Great sequence, worked great!  On the counterbore, did you harden/temper it?

Thanks Chris!

I hardened the counterbore but didn't bother to temper, since I only needed it for two holes.  It has a very short useful life, so as long as it lasted for my two holes, I was set.  useful life is short.  And I always find it hard to keep the 'tempering' from getting too hot on the thin parts of the tool (like the sharp edges) which would start to draw away the hardening.  So I just skipped the tempering this time.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 17, 2021, 05:13:24 AM
Thank you for the encouragement Julian, Joe, Bob, Dave, and Craig!
Really appreciate the comments  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 17, 2021, 05:16:49 AM
That's really nice work Kim, both the parts and the write-up.

It would seem that those little tapped holes would be for a small oil cup, but when I reviewed my copy of the book the bushings aren't shown as being drilled, so oil wouldn't get through anyway. Maybe a dummy oil cup was intended? I couldn't find a single photo or drawing showing the side rods assembled in anything other than a "rods down" position, in which case that area is always hidden from view. I imagine you looked too, but I got curious.

Thanks for the kind words Ron and for checking on those tapped holes.  Yes, I looked through the book several times and couldn't find anything to go in there.  I considered oil cups, but never saw any.  I also thought about a set screw to hold the bearings in place, but the threads don't go all the way through.  they only go partway in.  So I'm stumped. But I put them in because it was in the drawings! :)

I appreciate you looking too.  Maybe one of will figure out what those tapped holes are for someday!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 17, 2021, 01:27:44 PM
You may want to check this forum, the Kozo support group!
https://livesteam.proboards.com/board/3/kozo-hiraoka-support-group
Chris
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 23, 2021, 03:01:50 PM
Excellent work on the rods  :praise2:  :praise2: It's interesting that suddenly a metric dimension appears  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 23, 2021, 04:40:24 PM
Yes, I have found that interesting too!   Several of the internal diameters on the wheels are in metric.  I'm sure he just used those because they were convenient for him.  For the most part, everything is in inch units.  But those few really threw me for a bit!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2021, 10:48:12 PM
Time flies when you’re retired!  It’s been a month since my last update on this project, but I haven’t been idle.  I’ve moved one of my daughters and her husband to another state, I’ve been out camping a week, repaired the trailer, and the list goes on.  As has been said – I don’t know how I ever had time to work!

Anyway, I haven’t been totally absent from the shop… just mostly absent. Though I’ve made minimal progress I felt it was time to make an update so you’d all know I was still around and kicking.

Chapter 13.2 – Main Rods

Where the Side Rods connect the sets of main wheels together (the rods I just completed (if ‘just’ can be a month ago!)), the Main Rods will connect the wheels to the piston rod.

The process for making the Main Rods will be similar to the Side Rods, however, the main rods are not symmetrical as the Side Rods are.  They have some tapering which requires some additional work.

But for starters, it’s the same.  The main rods were made from lengths of 1/4" x 5/8" 1018 CRS.  I did the same steps here as with the side rods – stress relief, then mill it down to the required 0.200” thickness. No pictures here, as it is the same as before.

With the rods at the correct thickness, I drilled three holes.   The two for the part (big end and small end) and an extra hole PAST the small end just for holding things during machining.  Each hole is drilled and reamed.  The big end is 9mm, the little end, 6mm, and the extra hole is 1/4"  (notice Kozo again chose metric values for the holes for the bearings.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-1-DSC_8339.JPG)

Next, I narrowed the big end down to its final size of 9/16”.  I took a shave off one side, flipped it over and did the same on the other.  Took me a few tries to sneak up on it, but I got the right final dimension and doing it this way made sure it was centered.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-2-DSC_8346.JPG)

Next, on the big end, I drilled and tapped holes for the fake cotter/bolt arrangement.  Those little pieces will be made later and will be threaded into these holes in the big end.  They provide no useful function, but make it look like the prototype.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-3-DSC_8352.JPG)

The obligatory tapping picture (2-56) with my favorite little tap handle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-4-DSC_8353.JPG)

With the big end completed, its time to take the rod down to the final thickness.  Only the big end will remain at 0.200” thick.  The rest will be shaved down to 0.125”. This was done similar to the side rod, but now you can see the need for the extra hole since we need include the small end of the rod in the reduced thickness.  That extra hole provides a way to continue to hold the rod in the fixture while getting the entire small end down in size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-5-DSC_8357.JPG)

After shaving off one side, I flipped the rod over, added a few shims on the backside to provide some additional rigidity in the center, and shaved off the other side just the same.

And here’s a picture of one of the blanks thinned (lower one), while the other waits its turn (top one)  which will be next shop time since I was out of gas for the day.  Do note that the rods in the picture are backwards from what is shown on the drawing below.  I should have turned them over.  Sorry.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085a-MainRods-6-DSC_8359.JPG)

The piece of paper in the background shows all my trig calculations on it  that I will be using to make a jig for cutting all the tapered angles on the rod.  Took me a few tries to get consistent results, but I think I’ve got it now.  Guess we’ll see next time, eh?

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 17, 2021, 05:40:52 AM
Great start on the rods Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

PS rods I have made usually warp badly when I mill the opposite side. I think this is because my metal suppliers slip Bananium alloy into my order rather than plain black hot rolled steel I ordered.  Must be cheaper than black HRS.  :shrug:  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 17, 2021, 05:07:53 PM
Looking good, Kim! Somehow getting side and main rods done turns a rolling chassis into a locomotive chassis :).

By the way, I was looking at various compressed air engines yesterday and ran across your Radial-5 build. Went right out and ordered the book those plans are in. You did a great job on that one too!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Great start on the rods Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

PS rods I have made usually warp badly when I mill the opposite side. I think this is because my metal suppliers slip Bananium alloy into my order rather than plain black hot rolled steel I ordered.  Must be cheaper than black HRS.  :shrug:  :Lol:

Thanks CNR!
Yeah, I think they've shipped me some of that Bananium in the past too!  I have found that doing the stress-relief heating step really seems to help the CRS a lot.  I picked that trick up from people on this forum many years ago on one of my first engines that used steel.   That, and taking a shave off of one side, then the same off the other side, in multiple passes.  Not only does that keep the stresses more symmetrical, by doing it on alternating sides if it gets a tiny warp in it, it gets milled back flat.  Of course, this is only helpful for small warpage.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2021, 06:10:45 PM
Looking good, Kim! Somehow getting side and main rods done turns a rolling chassis into a locomotive chassis :).

By the way, I was looking at various compressed air engines yesterday and ran across your Radial-5 build. Went right out and ordered the book those plans are in. You did a great job on that one too!

Thanks Ronald!  (BTW, do you go by Ron, or Ronald?)

Yes, I'm really looking forward to having the rods and wheels on the chassis! :)

The Radial-5 was a very fun little engine.  Highly recommend it.  About the same time I did that, Bill Lindsey (another member of the forum) did a 1/2 sized version of the same thing.  That was a pretty cute little engine too!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 17, 2021, 06:17:01 PM
Quote
Thanks Ronald!  (BTW, do you go by Ron, or Ronald?)

I normally go by Ron and please feel free to use that. I only use Ronald on the signature line to avoid confusion with the "other" Ron on the forum. :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2021, 06:21:44 PM
Quote
Thanks Ronald!  (BTW, do you go by Ron, or Ronald?)

I normally go by Ron and please feel free to use that. I only use Ronald on the signature line to avoid confusion with the "other" Ron on the forum. :)

Will do! Ron it is :)

Thanks Ron!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 21, 2021, 11:44:13 PM
Continuing with the main rods, my next step was to make yet another jig to allow me to cut the taper on the rod.  As I’ve mentioned before, I did a page full of trig to get the right location for the holes.  And, as I also stated, I had to re-do my calculations a couple of times to get it right.  But while I was setting it up to do, I actually had to re-re-re-do the math because I realized I HADN'T done it right (don't you love math?).  Eventually, I got a number that actually seemed right, and produced the right angles when I checked them.  So I used those numbers to drill and tap 1/4-20 holes in three spots – one for the big end (on the right) and two for the ‘extra’ hole on the small end – one for the shallow angle, and one for the steeper one at the end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-01-DSC_8373.jpg)

With a part in place on the jig, I checked to make sure that the cut line followed the marked out line I made on the part.  And it did!  That gave me confidence that I’d done my math correctly (at least ONE of the times :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-02-DSC_8364.jpg)

Then I cut the taper on one side, from the big end down to the inflection point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-03-DSC_8368.jpg)

Now, moving the little end of the rod to the OTHER hole, I checked this line, and it also looked right.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-04-DSC_8369.jpg)

Then I cut from the inflection point to the end of the rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-05-DSC_8377.jpg)

With my process proved out, I flipped the rod over and did exactly the same thing to the other side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-06-DSC_8380.jpg)

I realized that there was one other issue here.  The edge of the taper on the big end should match the place where the rod narrows.  I was off by about 0.020”.  I marked up the picture below to hopefully show what I’m talking about – the edge marked with the red line and the edge marked in yellow should touch at the corner.  And you can see, they don’t.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-07-DSC_8383_Annotated.jpg)

To fix this, I needed to extended the ‘thinning’ cut about 20 thousandths farther toward the big end.  So I put the rods back in the first jig, and took another smidge off each side.  I think it’s pretty close now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-08-DSC_8385.jpg)

I cleaned up the machine marks using the sandpaper over a steel dowel trick.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-09-DSC_8387.jpg)

Finally, I centered up the rotary table and centered the small end over that. (There’s a protective piece of aluminum under the part to keep me from digging into the face of the RT.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-10-DSC_8392.jpg)

Then proceeded to round off the end of the small end.  (You can see the extra length of the rod with the additional hole laying there in the lower right).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-11-DSC_8394.jpg)

And there you have it, two completed main rods:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/085b-MainRods-12-DSC_8400.jpg)

Thanks for sticking with me as I slowly move through my build.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 22, 2021, 12:20:44 AM
Nicely done Kim!
The rods turned out great.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 22, 2021, 12:23:57 AM
Great results, those rods look terrific!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 22, 2021, 05:14:22 AM
Thanks Dave and Chris!

Nice to have the rods done.  They were more work than one would think.  But the next few parts will be simple things like bushings and a few decorative items (for the rods, of course :))

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 22, 2021, 12:16:32 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 23, 2021, 12:27:41 AM
Nice job on the rods, Kim. Good, clear process pics and descriptions too. Yep, I think you've earned a few bushings (and a beer  :cheers:)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 23, 2021, 05:15:40 AM
Thanks CNR & Ron,
Appreciate the comments!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 24, 2021, 04:32:16 AM
 I am late Kim but nice wok buddy….. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2021, 04:02:17 PM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
Chapter 13.3 – Bushings and Spacers

As I said, the next set of parts is fairly simple, just a bunch of bushings and spacers.

They were all made form Phosphor Bronze (I believe it is 932 (SAE 660)).  This stuff machines really nicely!

I used some 3/8” and some 5/8” nominal to make this set of items.  All simple turning jobs:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/086a-BushingsAndSpacers-1-DSC_8402.jpg)

Then I spent some significant time getting it to all work right with the side rods.  Kozo’s tolerances are very tight. And I had to loosen things up some to get the wheels to turn freely when the axel pivoted (as its supposed to).  I worked at it till I got it to turn freely for the entire range of motion.  Hopefully that isn’t too slopy, but if it bound up with just the rods, I don’t see how I’d have a chance at getting it to run with the rest of the mechanism in place!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/086a-BushingsAndSpacers-2-DSC_8407.jpg)

Anyway, it seems to turn quite freely with both side rods on, no binding anywhere, and it doesn’t really seem too sloppy.  So I think I’m happy :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on May 25, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
It's a very impressive assembly - really looking great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2021, 04:53:10 PM
If it is 932 (SAE 660) bronze, that is called Bearing Bronze, it is not Phosphor bronze. It machines much easier that phosphor bronze does, less grabby and cooler. I like it a lot better than the phosphor bronze.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on May 25, 2021, 08:59:49 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: A significant step, Kim.

Still following & enjoying the ride!
Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 25, 2021, 10:43:41 PM
Lovely milestone you have reached here - and nice appearance too  :cheers:

Still following and enjoying the journey - thank you Kim     :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 26, 2021, 05:05:57 AM
Thanks Stuart, Chris, Joe and Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 26, 2021, 05:08:33 AM
If it is 932 (SAE 660) bronze, that is called Bearing Bronze, it is not Phosphor bronze. It machines much easier than phosphor bronze does, less grabby and cooler. I like it a lot better than the phosphor bronze.

Chris,
You are, of course, correct; the 932 is bearing bronze.  Kozo calls for phosphor bronze, but I substituted the Bearing Bronze because it's more readily available, less expensive, and much more machinable, as you said.

Sorry for my mistake in the original post. Hope I don't confuse too many people with that!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 26, 2021, 11:34:46 PM
Chapter 13.4 – Cotters and Bolts

Made a little more progress today.  I completed the fake cotter pin & nut for the big end of the main rod.  Here are the four little pieces (and I do mean little – they’re each ~ 1/4" long with 2-56 threads.) that make up the rod decoration.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/087a-CottersAndBolts-1-DSC_8412.jpg)

And here’s what it looks like installed on the rods:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/087a-CottersAndBolts-2-DSC_8416.jpg)

And finally, on the assembly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/087a-CottersAndBolts-3-DSC_8418.jpg)

Next up I’ll be starting on the cylinders!  That will be a big job…
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 27, 2021, 12:17:23 AM
Looking very nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2021, 05:16:17 AM
Thank you, Dave!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 06:44:11 AM
Hi Kim, more and more are coming together. Nice progress.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 06, 2021, 12:24:21 PM
Good to see the running gear together  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 06, 2021, 03:45:13 PM
Thank you Achim and Roger!
Haven't made much progress lately - too many home projects that need doing right now.  It will be a while before I get back out to the shop.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 20, 2021, 08:44:05 PM
Chapter 14.1 – Cylinders

Over the past two weeks started working on the cylinders.  These are complex parts, carved from a solid bit of bar stock and will have lots of steps involved.  This first installment covers some basic shaping.

The Cylinders are made from a ~1 7/8” piece of 2” Bronze bar.  Again, I used 932 bearing bronze.  This was one of the most expensive bits of material I purchased for this build (but not THE most expensive - the copper sheets used for the boiler win that prize!) A one-foot length of 2” 932 bronze cost $114.   I could have purchased the castings from Friends for a little less ($95 for the pair).  However, with the bar stock, I’ve got enough material to try several times and still have some leftover for future use.  Besides, I wanted to make it all from bar stock. :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-01-DSC_8420.jpg)

While those were being sliced by the bandsaw, I took a piece of 1” 12L14 and made a plug gauge.   I made several graduations; the first ones are more coarse.  Those close to the target are at 0.001” graduations.  All of the steps are 1/8” long except the target bore of 7/8” (0.875”) which I made 1/4” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-02-DSC_8443.jpg)

After the cylinders were cut off, I faced off both sides on the lathe.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-03-DSC_8424.jpg)

Then on the mill, I shaved off one side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-04-DSC_8434.jpg)

Flipped it over, then shaved down the other side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-05-DSC_8435.jpg)

And finally, a third side.  Each of these was done to a very precise depth, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-06-DSC_8439.jpg)

And finally, I took a step out of that last side.  This is where the cylinders start becoming left and right-handed.  They are still rotationally symmetrical for a few more steps, but pretty soon that goes away too, so I’ll be labeling them L and R from now on.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-07-DSC_8440.jpg)

The cylinder is bored off-center.  I found the right spot, centered it up using the four jaw, drilled a pilot hole then drilled to 13/16” leaving the last 1/16” for boring, which I’m doing here:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-08-DSC_8448.jpg)

And creeping up very carefully on the desired 0.875”, and using the plug gauge, I was able to hit the target bore!  The first label you see there is 0.876” – which means that the 0.875” size went into the hole, but the 0.876” didn’t.  This is good :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-09-DSC_8451.jpg)

With that done, I cut the 1 7/16” + 0.005” diameter cylinder on the end (1/8” deep) which will be the basic shape of the main cylinder.  The extra 5 thou are left for truing up once the rest of the cylinder is shaped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-10-DSC_8458.jpg)

I flipped the part around in the 4-jaw chuck, re-centered on the 7/8" bore and made the same 1/8" deep round shape on the other side.  With that done, here are both the left and the right cylinders with the basic shaping complete.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088a-Cylinders-11-DSC_8463.jpg)

Thank you for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 20, 2021, 10:58:17 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 20, 2021, 11:53:46 PM
Very nice work Kim! Glad you made it out to the shop!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on June 21, 2021, 03:19:04 AM
Every piece is another step closer and looks great Kim….. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2021, 05:30:46 AM
Thank you, CNR, Ron, and Don!

While this was one update, it represents 3 different shop sessions over the last many weeks.  I tend to only put in 3-4 hours in one session. If I try to go on much longer than that it quits being fun and starts feeling like work.   And clearly, I don't set any speed records.  But I do have fun!

Thanks for the kind comments,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on June 21, 2021, 03:43:22 PM
Keep at it Kim..I was outside in the 90+ F heat all day yesterdayand I worked myself to exhaustion..but I feel good today..and ready to get back at it.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 22, 2021, 05:10:34 AM
Thanks Dave!

That's too hot for me!  I'd give out WAY before 90F!  :insane:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 25, 2021, 10:24:45 PM
I’ve made a bit more progress.  It’s cool enough in the morning for me to get out in the shop for a while, but it doesn’t take long for things to get hotter than I can stand (or want to stand).  So it's been an hour or two here and there.

The last step for the basic shaping is to bring the valve face and steam port face to the correct width.  Starting with the valve face, I shaved a bit off of that to make it 1 3/32” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-1-DSC_8468.jpg)

Then carefully repositioning the cylinder, took the steam port face down to the same.  Each of these cuts were to match up with the cylinder shape on the ends, so it took some careful milling in those last steps.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-2-DSC_8471.jpg)

Here are the two cylinders with the business faces at the correct size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-3-DSC_8473.jpg)

Next, I’ll attack the valve face.  I made my sketch of all the important data points for the steam ports, then used a 1/16” drill to make holes at each corner of the ports.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-4-DSC_8477.jpg)

Then, with a 1/16” mill, carved out the steam ports.  The inlet ports are just a hair over 1/16” (0.078” which just happens to be 2mm) and the exhaust port is 0.394” wide (10mm wide).  Seems Kozo didn’t bother to change this part of his design from metric.  Worked fine for me.  But it’s interesting nevertheless!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-5-DSC_8479.jpg)

Finally, I drilled the 8 mounting holes for securing the steam chest. #47 for a 3-48 thread.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-6-DSC_8482.jpg)

At this point, it was just too hot and I decided to close up for the day.

One more of these to do, then I’ll move on to the steam port side that connects up to the Steam-T. 

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 25, 2021, 10:32:06 PM
Looking good Kim!

Quote
At this point, it was just too hot and I decided to close up for the day.
When my son and daughter-in-law bought their house in Portland, they thought "We don't need to install AC, this is cool and rainy Portland". After suffering through the last couple of summers of record heat, they just recently corrected their mistake!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 26, 2021, 05:04:29 AM
Boy, ain't that the truth!  We have AC, in the house, that is. But not in the shop (i.e. garage!)

I grew up in Portland and we've always had hot days - days when I wished we had AC, but when I was growing up, that wasn't something most people had (in this area anyway).  That's certainly changing!

This is the kind of heat we don't usually get till the end of July or August.  And here we are, mid-June, breaking records!  They're predicting 112-114F on Sunday!  That's Pheonix temperatures, not Portland!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on June 26, 2021, 11:27:05 AM
Any reason to use bronze vs. cast iron, which I assume would be cheaper.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 26, 2021, 03:47:06 PM
Hmm... That's a good question!  I chose bronze because that's what Kozo specified, and because I didn't think about cast iron as a less expensive alternative.  Which it clearly would have been.  Significantly less expensive! 

Is there a reason Kozo chose bronze rather than CI?  I don't know.  Maybe others know the trade-offs of using CI vs Bronze in this application.  If so, I'd love to hear!

Thanks for the question KVOM.  Sorry, I can't answer it meaningfully!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 26, 2021, 03:53:14 PM
Bronze machines nicely and gives a low friction bore. It will not rust if water is left in the cylinders or steam passages after steaming. Also heavier than CI so for smaller models the extra weight on the drivers may help tractive effort slightly. CI makes good cylinders too of course, but will rust if not dried out and oiled well after running. Mr Hiraoka's designs and his material specs are well thought out, in my opinion.

Your cylinders are looking great!  :cheers:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 26, 2021, 03:56:36 PM
Thanks, CNR!

Yes, that's a very good point!  Now that you mention it, while I converted most material from brass to steel (for cost reasons) I tried to keep anything in the water or steam path as brass or bronze (and sometimes stainless).  I'm sure this is exactly why Kozo specified Bronze for the cylinders!

Thank you for helping to shed some light on this!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on June 26, 2021, 10:44:44 PM
Weight....extra weight doesnt hurt on a loco and it improves traction.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 29, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
Still following and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: I do like the stepped plug gauges  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2021, 12:11:13 AM
Thanks Roger!
Yes, this is the first time I've used a stepped plug gauge like that and it was very helpful!  And not really that hard to make either.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2021, 12:59:21 AM
I had several sessions in the shop since Saturday, though I’ve kept them short and in the earlyish morning.  Things have been pretty hot – Portland broke its high-temperature record three times in a row!  Saturday was 108 (which broke the 107oF high set in 1965).  Then Sunday got to 112oF, breaking Saturday’s record.  And Monday it hit 116oF setting yet another record! That’s three all-time high records in a row!  That is too much heat and is just insane for this area.  That’s all I can say about that.
However, today we’re back into the eighties – still a fairly high temperature for this area in the month of June, but way better than 116!

OK, let's cool things off by talking about the progress I made on the cylinders for my Pennsy, shall we?

I finished up the valve ports on the other cylinder then laid out the holes for the steam-T side.  This side has 6 threaded holes: four to hold the cylinder in place on the frame and two to attach the Steam-T.  Then there’s a hole for the steam exhaust from the cylinder, and one for the steam ingress to the steam chest.  Here’s the first cylinder, all drilled up:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-01-DSC_8485.jpg)

The tricky part here is that once you drill the steam-ingress port, there’s no going back. That cylinder is now either left or right-handed.  You're locked in.  So I made sure to mark up and drill both cylinders VERY carefully.  And I think I got them right.

Here are both cylinders after drilling the steam-T face and tapping the 5-40 mounting holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-02-DSC_8494.jpg)

To make sure the mounting holes line up properly I fit the cylinders in their place on the chassis.  Yay!  It worked :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-03-DSC_8490.jpg)

OK, now remove the cylinders and get on with the work.

The next order of business was to drill out all the steam passageways in the cylinder.

First, there is the exhaust passage, which goes from the larger hole in the Steam-T face to the center valve port on the valve face.  That was done at 25o using a #19 drill:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-04-DSC_8495.jpg)

I tell you, there’s nothing like the feeling of seeing little bits of swarf start to come out of the exhaust port after you’ve drilled more than 1/2" into the part you’ve put so much effort into!  You drill and you keep going, HOPING that you’re going to hit the right spot…  Math tells you your right.  The drawing you did shows it should work.  Kozo says it will work.  But when it actually DOES work, in real life, THAT feels really good  :cartwheel:

OK, for the next steam passage it turns out I need one more flat place on the cylinder for registration.  So I set that up and took a slice off of the bottom of the cylinder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-05-DSC_8503.jpg)

Now, using the newly created flat I can register a 30o angle and drill the steam ingress passage.  This connects the inside of the steam chest to the steam input coming from the Steam-T.  This one is a bit harder because it starts on a sloped surface. I used this pointing gizmo to line up the right spot on the valve port face, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-06-DSC_8505.jpg)

Then I started the hole with a little mill and switched to the drill bit after it was off the sloppy part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-07-DSC_8508.jpg)

And the final steam passages are from the valve steam ports to the ends of the cylinder.  These holes were drilled at a 28o angle.  So, again, I started with a mill to make a flat spot:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-08-DSC_8511.jpg)

Then drilled two holes, side by side. Kozo specifies that the holes should be drilled in two steps – first a 3/32” drill as a pilot, then a #39 to finish.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-09-DSC_8514.jpg)

Now, this is what Kozo specifies.  3/32” and #39.   But 3/32 is 0.09375”, and a #39 is 0.0995”.  So it’s only 0.006” larger in diameter than the 3/32”?  Does that 0.006” really make that much difference? Anyway, I did it because that’s what it says to do.  And who am I to argue?  Maybe that extra 0.006” diameter is required to supply the necessary volume of steam?

Yet another tricky spot here – the cylinders are not symmetrical.  So, you have to drill the left-hand steam passage in a different place (symmetrical, but offset from the centerline in the opposite direction – if that makes sense).  Anyway, here’s what it looked like doing the other side – note that everything is opposite from the previous picture?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-10-DSC_8516.jpg)


Just another thing of note here.  I have angle blocks at 25o and 30o, but for the 28o one I had to use a 25 o and a 3o angle block ganged together.  Ganging angle blocks like this has always been a challenge for me.  I find it hard to get them to stay in place while I get the part set and clamped. But this time I had a better idea.  I used a couple of little pieces of double-sided-sticky-tape to hold the two angle blocks together. 
This seemed to work great.  The extra thickness makes no difference on the angle, and it allowed me to do the setup without the blocks always slipping out of position.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-11-DSC_8519.jpg)

And here’s where the cylinder blocks are now.  Note now the steam entrance on the ends of the cylinder is centered on the valve ports but NOT centered on the cylinder.  This is interesting and one of the things that make this left/right cylinder thing tricky.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-12-DSC_8527.jpg)

Just one more shot showing the valve face up close – you can see the two holes from the steam input port and the larger steam exhaust passageway at the bottom of the exhaust port.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088c-Cylinders-13-DSC_8530.jpg)

Anyway, that was a lot more work than you’d think and I’m very happy to have milling the ports and drilling the steam passageways behind me!

Thanks for looking in and for your support,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 01, 2021, 01:25:49 AM
Nice job on very complex parts.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on July 01, 2021, 03:37:37 AM
Very fine work indeed. Still following - very nice progress. Cunning and simple approach with the angle blocks. I’ve had similar problems, so I’ll be stealing that idea. :D
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 01, 2021, 04:34:34 AM
Well you certainly made short work of that. Looks great Kim….. :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 01, 2021, 05:25:35 AM
Thanks Chris, Stuart, and Don!

Well, Don, it may look quick, but nothing I do is actually very quick. (need the snail emoji here) :ROFL: I tend to be more 'methodical' than quick!  :embarassed:  If I logged the number of hours I spend in the shop doing each of these steps, you'd all have a good laugh!  But that's OK.  I'm having fun and enjoying my time building and learning.  And that's what counts, right? :)

Thanks much for the kind words and encouragement!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on July 01, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Kim, I’ve seen continents shift faster than I make parts. I think you’re moving along superbly.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 01, 2021, 03:35:55 PM
Quote
I'm having fun and enjoying my time building and learning.  And that's what counts, right?

Absolutely! And you're working to a high standard in the process. Well done! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2021, 12:17:20 AM
Thanks Stuart and Ron!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 02, 2021, 12:22:33 AM
The next step on the cylinders is to bring them to the final shape, which is to round things up so that it looks more like a cylinder!

First thing I needed to do was to make a 7/8” mandrel to hold the cylinder.  I made this out of some leftover pieces.  Rather than turn down a larger diameter rod to make a mandrel with a shoulder, I took a short length of 7/8” steel rod and fit a larger collar on it (to make the shoulder.  The 7/8” rod was a very close fit for the cylinders.  I probably couldn’t have turned a better fit.  The collar was made from a scrap piece of brass.  And the washer to hold it all together was cut from a piece of 1.25” round steel.

Here's what it looks like:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088d-Cylinders-1-DSC_8532.jpg)

And here it is with one of the cylinders fitted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088d-Cylinders-2-DSC_8534.jpg)

The method that Kozo shows to round up the cylinder is to use the lathe like a shaper.  He mounts a cutoff tool rotated 90o and has you slide the carriage back and forth to shave off parts of the cylinder.  I think he does this because he doesn’t want to assume people have a rotary table for their mill or something.  And he does assume they have a lathe.

But since I have a mill, and a way to rotate it, I am choosing to use my mill for this.

And I actually have this nice little 5C spin-indexer that I got many years ago, but have never really had an opportunity to use. This seemed like the perfect time!  So, I got that all squared up on the mill and ready for action.

Then, as I was tightening up a cylinder on the mandrel it slipped and rotated.  And it kept rotating…. Turns out, the 5C spin-indexer doesn’t really tighten down the 5C collet – it runs out of travel before the collet is pulled tight!  You can see this in the picture below.  The collet closer is as tight as it will go – pulled all the way to the end of travel – but with noting in the collet there’s a gap between the collet and the piece that should make it clamp down. :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088d-Cylinders-3-DSC_8537.jpg)

After studying this for a bit, I think if I make a washer to go between the collet housing and the closer handle that should give it a bit more travel and it ought to tighten down.  But that will be tomorrow’s project.

I’m not sure if this is a peculiarity with my 7/8” collet, or if this is the case for ALL 5C collets in this spin-indexer.  But I need it to work, so I’ll figure it out.  Guess that’s what you get for not using a new tool, eh?  Couldn’t return it now if I wanted to –I’ve had this for 4-5 years now, doubt they’d give me the time of day. But hey, I’ve got a machine shop.  I can fix this.  Other than that, it seems like a pretty solid little spinner.

Guess we’ll find out tomorrow!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 05, 2021, 10:49:03 PM
Last time I ended with my index/spinner not being able to close the collet all the way (or at all, actually).  So I made a nice little 1/8” thick steel washer to help give the closer enough travel to tighten down the collet.  OK, that should have been a quick little lathe job, but I had to change chucks, and then bore out a 1 3/8” hole in, which took a while.  Then, when I got it done and went to tighten down the collet, guess what happened?  The collet didn’t close – the handle popped off the end of the closer!  :o

So, I didn’t need to make this washer after all!  I just needed to tighten the set screws on the collet closer handle.  Go figure.  :Doh: So, I tightened up the set screws (there were 3 of them, spaced around the handle) and now it works great – likely don't even need the washer.  But I’ve got it now.  Here I’ve got the ‘before’ and ‘after’ shots and you can see that in the ‘before’ shot, the collet isn’t closed.  But in the ‘after’ shot, it is.
Before:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088d-Cylinders-3-DSC_8537.jpg)

After:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-1-DSC_8541.jpg)

Well, after all of that to make my spin/indexer work, I changed my mind and decided to go with Kozo’s direction of using the lathe for a shaper. And that’s what I did.  Same fixture, and same 5C collet, but now it’s in the lathe.  In this shot I’ve just taken a few passes, taking off one of the sharp corners.  I colored all of the areas to be rounded with a black pen.  Figured that would help make sure I round off the correct corners :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-2-DSC_8544.jpg)

Now I’m about halfway around.  I took it a quadrant at a time – taking off the corners first, then bringing down a larger section – being REALLY careful as I approached the ends of the cylinder (where it merges with the valve face or the steam T face.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-3-DSC_8547.jpg)

You could see in the previous pictures that the cylinder wasn’t being held perfectly square.  The far end was out of position by a thousandth or two.  And rather than keep taking material from the one side (making that side smaller) I flipped the cylinder around and did the same thing from the other side (again, marking up with the black marker.  This allowed me to get both ends down to the correct size at the expense of having the cylinders be a thou too wide in the middle.  I don’t think it will show.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-4-DSC_8549.jpg)


With the right cylinder completed, I used some files and a scotchbrite wheel to clean up the cylinder, and here is the right one rounded and the left one unstarted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-5-DSC_8553.jpg)

And here they are both complete:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088e-Cylinders-6-DSC_8556.jpg)

I still have some more work to do on these cylinders before they are complete.  I need to make holes for the drain cocks and drill and tap holes to mount the cylinder end caps.

Busy little pieces, these cylinders!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 05, 2021, 10:53:04 PM
That came out great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on July 05, 2021, 11:54:37 PM
Looking really good there, Kim!

Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 06, 2021, 02:33:24 AM
Nice Kim very nice……. :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 06, 2021, 02:52:56 AM
Nice work Kim!
The cylinders are looking great.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on July 06, 2021, 04:12:31 AM
Nicely done Kim!!!      Crisp!!!


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2021, 05:21:12 AM
Thanks for the kind comments Chris, Joe, Don, Dave, and Dave!
Really appreciate you following along and all the advice and encouragement.

I am quite pleased with how they are coming out :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 06, 2021, 11:59:12 AM
very nice work
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 06, 2021, 12:17:44 PM
Nice technique using the lathe as a shaper. One of the ones I learned from Mr Hiraoka as well! Great looking cylinders.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

(oh, and the one thou bulge in the middle - just say that`s to help with strength along the bores, if any joker should ask )  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Thank you KVOM and CNR.  I'll use that!  It's actually a safety feature!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 06, 2021, 04:27:30 PM
Its a model of an older engine, it has some middle age spread!   :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 06, 2021, 07:50:26 PM
Very nice result and work Kim  :cheers:

Considering that others here try to make their shafts thicker midway between the bearings, to get a more "organic form" - it's a feature  ;)
If it had a very small ridge all way around and a "draft angle" towards each end - you could claim it's from the casting process  ;D
And if we all pull together on this one, we might end up with way to many excuses explanations  :LittleDevil:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2021, 10:23:34 PM
Very nice result and work Kim  :cheers:

Considering that others here try to make their shafts thicker midway between the bearings, to get a more "organic form" - it's a feature  ;)
If it had a very small ridge all way around and a "draft angle" towards each end - you could claim it's from the casting process  ;D
And if we all pull together on this one, we might end up with way to many excuses explanations  :LittleDevil:

Per

I'll say!  And I was originally happy with "It looks pretty good" as my excuse  :Lol:

You guys are GOOD at this!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2021, 10:25:44 PM
Today I added holes for the cylinder drain cocks.

This wasn’t too hard; drill a #29 hole 3/16” deep:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-1-DSC_8559.jpg)

Drill a hole through to the edge of the cylinder.  I did this at a 15o angle to get it closer to the cylinder head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-2-DSC_8561.jpg)

And lastly, I made a 7/32” flat for where the drain cock will fit. Probably should have done this first, but hey, it seems to have worked.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-3-DSC_8564.jpg)

I can’t tap the holes yet because they need to be 8-36 and I don’t have an 8-36 tap.  Guess I missed that one when pre-ordering tools for this build.  That’s OK, should be here by the end of the week.

Next up will be starting on the steam chest.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2021, 11:04:47 PM
Chapter 14.2 – Steam Chests

Today I started on the steam chests.

I went to the safe and took out a chunk of gold and proceeded to slice off a couple of hunks of this expensive stuff (360 brass, 1/2” x 1 1/4"  ).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089a-SteamChests-1-DSC_8567.jpg)

After milling them to the correct length and width (2” long x 1 3/32” wide) I carefully found the ‘slightly off center’ spot where the valve stem should go.  It’s centered up and down, but off-center left to right.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089a-SteamChests-2-DSC_8568.jpg)

Then I centered up that hole in the 4-jaw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089a-SteamChests-3-DSC_8571.jpg)

And proceeded to cut the housing for what Kozo calls the valve O-ring retainer, but which I think would usually be called the valve packing gland.  Unfortunately, I was making it 1/2" long and it should have been 7/16” long.  DOH!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089a-SteamChests-4-DSC_8572.jpg)

So back to the gold bar to slice off another piece!

And it's time to stop for the day for me.  One practice piece per day is plenty!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 08, 2021, 12:08:40 AM
Nice to see the solid gold getting machined!  :Lol:   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 09, 2021, 10:53:21 PM
Yes, isn't it though?  The gold bar does machine nicely, that's for sure!   :Lol:

With a new steam chest blank in hand, I tried it again.  This time I got the depth correct!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089b-SteamChests-1-DSC_8575.jpg)

I then drilled a #30 hole (just larger than 1/8”) just a bit past 3/4" deep – that should take it all the way to the inside of the steam chest cavity.  Following this, I drilled a hole for the o-ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089b-SteamChests-2-DSC_8578.jpg)

Then used a tiny boring bar to bring the hole up to just a tad over 1/4" and flatten the bottom of the hole.  This hole was 13/32” deep (just in case you were wondering).  The O-ring and an O-ring retainer will fit in this hole eventually.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089b-SteamChests-3-DSC_8579.jpg)

And here are the two steam chests up to this point.  I took a shot down the business end just to help explain the hole business I was discussing above. (pun intended - get it - whole business - hole business  :ROFL:  Boy, do I crack myself up!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089b-SteamChests-4-DSC_8584.jpg)

Tomorrow I’ll work on carving out the inside of the steam chest.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 10, 2021, 12:12:11 AM
Your cylinders came out looking great, and the steam chests are comely along nicely too. Certainly better than your puns... :ShakeHead: ;)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on July 10, 2021, 01:37:06 AM
Looking good Kim!    Love the 4 jaw work!!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 10, 2021, 02:22:20 AM
Thanks, Ron and Dave!

Regarding the 4-jaw, I'm enjoying learning new techniques that I haven't tried before.  It's all part of the fun for me! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 10, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
My 8-36 taps arrived yesterday, so I tapped the holes for the cylinder cocks.

But wouldn’t you know it, I broke off a tap on my 3rd hole! :-o 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-1-DSC_8588.jpg)

Luckily, the #8 taps are pretty good-sized and the hole wasn’t very deep.  I was able to use a 1/16” carbide mill to chew out most of the tap and then fish the remaining chunks out.  And similarly lucky, I’d purchased the 8-36 “Tap Set” which came with a taper, plug, and bottom tap.  I broke the plug tap but was able to use the bottom tap to finish the job.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-2-DSC_8590.jpg)

Back to the steam chests!

The steam inlet is off to the side of the steam chamber.  To make sure there’s a free flow of steam into the steam chest, Kozo has you mill a hole at a 15o angle at the corner where the steam comes in.  I did this from the back using a 2 flute 1/8” mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-3-DSC_8593.jpg)

I was drilling the mounting holes first (#37 – a #3 clearance hole size) when I realized that I’d drilled one of the holes with the wrong coordinates!  Ugh… I was considering using a brass plug (probably threading 5-40 or something) and re-drilling, but the ‘wrong’ hole was only 12 thou from where it should have been.  That’s not very much.  So I chose to just make it a slightly oblong hole – Luckily, 7/64” (0.1094”) is VERY close to #37 (0.1040”), and oddly enough, I just happen to have a 7/64” mill (not sure why, but it worked out nicely!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-4-DSC_8595.jpg)

I should have made TWO drawings – one for the mounting holes and one for the steam chest opening.  But I thought I’d save some time and cram it on one sheet.  Bad move.  You can see it’s a pretty busy drawing – just waiting for me to use the wrong number for the wrong hole!  The numbers on the left and bottom are for the mounting hole coordinates – the numbers on the top and right are for milling the steam chamber.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-5-DSC_8598.jpg)

So, after THIS mishap I took a scrap paper and covered up the numbers I wasn’t using.  This helped.  I should have done it to start with, of course.  Live and learn (again :Doh:).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-6-DSC_8596.jpg)

Then I went on to mill out the steam chamber.  I was using a 1/8” mill to do this.  I’d previously drilled 1/8” holes at each corner.  However, on the last side I got a bit too complacent and apparently started to push things too hard and snapped the tip off the mill.  Guess I was just in too much of a hurry to get the part done.  And now I can’t finish it :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/089c-SteamChests-7-DSC_8603.jpg)


Well, three major mishaps in one morning. This wasn’t my day.  I closed up shop and will try again another day.  (Maybe Monday, when the 1/8” end mills come in? :))

Thanks for all your support!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 11, 2021, 12:05:03 AM
Bummer on the breakage!  That tap is new, but its already rusted??  Glad you were able to recover it!
In the second picture, what is that line inside the cylinder bore? Hope that the bore is not finished?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2021, 12:08:46 AM
Interesting point!  Yes, it looked like that.  It was a cheap tap and should have known better.  I was just looking for something fast.  And I got it fast.  I should have stuck with Union Butterfield.  I have had very good luck with their taps.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on July 11, 2021, 01:14:00 AM
I would stay away from using the t-handle tap wrench for starting a tap, as it's too easy to start crooked.  If you don't have a tapping station, then using the mill chuck right after drilling will start the tap straight.

Personally I'd have used an 8-32 tap, which one is very likely to have already.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2021, 05:20:51 AM
I would stay away from using the t-handle tap wrench for starting a tap, as it's too easy to start crooked.  If you don't have a tapping station, then using the mill chuck right after drilling will start the tap straight.
Yeah, very true.  The gizmo at the top of that first picture is actually a tapping block to help me start the tap straight.  I use it when I don't have it setup in the mill.  In this case, I believe that I just tried to tap past the bottom of the hole... :(  I was just putting the last little pressure on it to see if I was at the bottom of the hole and - snap - I sure was at the bottom. :(  I should have known better.  I did know better.  I was just being careless today, as shown by; broken tap, misplaced hole, broken end mill.

I probably should have stopped sooner... Though I don't know why, I was clearly driving distracted...


Personally I'd have used an 8-32 tap, which one is very likely to have already.
Yeah, I gave that serious consideration.  I finally decided to go with the 8-36 thinking that maybe that very short tapped hole would get an extra thread by using the 36 TPI.  It was only 5/32" deep, I'm thinking that's why Kozo specified 8-36?  Maybe?  Or maybe not being as familiar with the US system he didn't really know what was common, so just picked what he wanted.  He does use a lot of non-standard threads!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on July 11, 2021, 09:09:37 AM
Hi Kim,
 After a day like that I hope you took several long slow deep breaths, turned off the lights & closed the workshop for the day! Followed by a brisk walk to the fridge for your favourite tipple to sooth the nerves!

A couple of thoughts, get yourself some highlighters, pick a colour  for one set of holes, colour dimensions the same, repeat for other hole sets….current drawing I’m using has 3 colours on it, do each colour in turn. May sound like it may take extra time, but it’s quicker than starting over! I find cutting out internal squares by using multi drilled holes stepped over just a bit more than the dia is the way to go, only leaves a small amount of material to remove with the end mill.
Feel free to disregard the above if you already know this!

The parts are coming along great!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2021, 07:51:10 PM
Thanks Kerrin,
Yes, that's a good recommendation - I didn't do that this time for I don't know why.  I guess I just didn't think of it and the brass is pretty easy to mill.  If I'd been doing steel then I'd be much more likely to chain drill.  But maybe I should have anyway.

Thanks for looking in, I appreciate the commiseration!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 11, 2021, 11:19:10 PM
Several times in my early days in the toolroom I broke off taps and other tools in parts in progress that on occasion had many thousands of dollars worth of work done on them already. The first time it happened to me it was a 3/8-16" tap in an injection mould insert that had already had almost $20,000 of work done to it - very intricate switchgear part to be made in the mould. Thought for sure that was my last day. But when I told the lead hand about it he just said " well get it out then". I found out that tool breakages even in very involved and costly tool parts are just a normal part of the work, and you just carry on and repair as needed. Very few times the block had to be scrapped, something usually could be done to fix things.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on July 12, 2021, 01:46:42 AM
When i started as an apprentice engine reconditioned we did lots of crack repairs in cylinder heads it was common to break taps the cracks were repaired by using tapered plugs .the holes were usually into uneven surfaces  so it was easy to break  the tap so lots of practice at getting the out we often had mechanics bring in engine parts which brocken studs to see if we could get it out.often it was not just a stud .it would be drill and easy out in the hole as well .so lots of practice at getting taps screw remains in parts.out .it is much easier if someone has not
already tried and made it harder.I have never liked easy outs or used them there are tap removers and tools which are meant to work but i have not used any of them  i had to dig too many of them out after some one else has tried .bits can usually got out but it is not always easy. i have had more than 50 years practicing .
      John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2021, 10:55:00 PM
Thanks John and CNR,
Hearing stories like this makes me feel somewhat less stupid for breaking things!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 12, 2021, 10:57:32 PM
Chapter 14.3 – Steam Chest Covers

While waiting for the 1/8” end mills to arrive I decided to move forward with the Steam Chest Covers.  These are fairly simple parts made from 1/8” brass bar stock.  I cut two blanks out of a short piece of 1/8” x 2” bar, sticky-taped them together, then proceeded to mill them to size:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090a-SteamChestCovers-1-DSC_8605.jpg)

After that, I used the exact same coordinates to drill these holes as I used for the steam chests (and I used the RIGHT coordinates this time! :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090a-SteamChestCovers-2-DSC_8608.jpg)

Next, I drilled a hole in the center of the steam chest cover for a 3-48 threaded hole and made countersinks for all the steam chest cover bolts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090a-SteamChestCovers-3-DSC_8611.jpg)

And here’s after tapping the center hole for 3-48.  Next time I’ll soft solder the screws in place and remove the round head to create a short stud.  This stud will be used to hold a decorative cover over the steam chest, hiding all the flathead CSK screws on the steam chest cover.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090a-SteamChestCovers-4-DSC_8614.jpg)

That was it for today, thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 13, 2021, 01:34:44 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 19, 2021, 10:18:36 PM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:


OK, now to solder up the steam chest covers.  This is the underside of the steam chest covers with a little bit of the machine screw sticking through and some flux applied.  The lower one has been soldered and the upper one hasn't yet (of course).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-1-DSC_8616.jpg)

After a quick pickle, I filed the solder lumps flat and cleaned up the covers.  Here’s what they look like completed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-2-DSC_8620.jpg)

The 1/8” mill bits I ordered came in several days ago, so I’m ready to continue on with the steam chests.  I completed opening them up without further incident.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-3-DSC_8618.jpg)

Finally, drill and tap a 3-48 hold in the O-Ring holder for a little set screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-4-DSC_8622.jpg)

And here are the completed steam chests.  Note the extra cut-out in the upper corner of the right steam chest?  This is to connect up to the steam inlet passage in the cylinder (the steam chest is upside down in this pic).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-5-DSC_8624.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the steam chest showing how that extra cut-out makes a nice clear passageway for the steam ingress (lower right corner inside the steam chest).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-6-DSC_8630.jpg)

And here are the beauty shots of the cylinders, complete with steam chest and cover.  Still a good way to go they are complete.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/090b-SteamChestCovers-7-DSC_8638.jpg)

That’s the state of play as of today. Thanks for stopping by to take a look!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on July 20, 2021, 12:41:38 AM
Those are looking great, Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 20, 2021, 01:13:53 AM
Nice looking pair of cylinder assemblies Kim! :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 20, 2021, 01:19:36 AM
Terrific progress!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 20, 2021, 01:19:53 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 20, 2021, 02:39:21 AM
Great looking pair of cylinders & chests Kim! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 20, 2021, 05:40:09 AM
Thank you all for the kind comments, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to stop by and comment on my build.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 21, 2021, 01:21:46 AM
Great looking pair of cylinders & chests Kim! :ThumbsUp:

Yep agree!……… :Love:


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 21, 2021, 05:57:47 PM
I'm still following in the background and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2021, 06:20:38 PM
Thanks Don and Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 22, 2021, 12:06:56 AM
Chapter 14.4 – Steam Chest Cover Casings

The next part up is the Steam Chest Cover Casings.  These are beauty parts to cover the top of the steam chests.  They were made from 1/4" x 1 1/4" brass bar.  I cut two pieces, sticky taped them together and proceeded to square them up and make them the correct size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-1-DSC_8642.jpg)

Then I drilled the center mounting hole – this will fit on the stud that was soldered to the top of the steam chest covers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-2-DSC_8645.jpg)

Next, I carved out a 1/8” deep cavity that will fit over the steam chest cover.  I took out the bulk of the material with a 1/2" mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-3-DSC_8646.jpg)

Then switched to a 3/32” end mill to clean up the corners and do the last pass around the edges.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-4-DSC_8649.jpg)

This is where I ended the day with the cavity carved out of both parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-5-DSC_8652.jpg)

But I had to try it and make sure it fit over the steam chest, and it did. :)
Oh, and this shows one other thing I did today - I rounded the corners on the edges of the cylinder.  I believe that this is to make it look more like a casting.  Regardless, I think it looks pretty nice!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091a-SteamChestCoverCasings-6-DSC_8653.jpg)

To make it more beautiful all the corners will be rounded over.  But that’s tomorrow’s job.

Thanks for stopping by, I appreciate the visit!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 22, 2021, 12:13:49 AM
Excellent looking parts, its really taking shape.




I don't know if its common or not, but the Lombards had extra covers like that and around the cylinders to hold a layer of insulation for cold weather since they were mainly used in the winter. Seems like something locomotives would use too in winter?


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 22, 2021, 12:28:55 AM
Thanks Chris,

Interesting...  But this would only hold insulation over the top of the steam chest - not around the rest of the steam chest or over the cylinder. But maybe the steam chest cover is the thinnest part, so that's why you'd insulate it?

Hmm.... And here I thought it was only for looks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 22, 2021, 10:16:17 PM
To complete the steam chest cover casings I need to round over all the top edges.  I considered just filing them round but I’m just not that good with a file.  And these parts will be nice and shiny, up-front and center to catch everyone's eye, and I want them to look really good.  So I chose to use a 3/32” round-over bit to round off the edges believing that would produce a much nicer, more uniform look.

I picked this one up on Amazon for not too much.  It’s a wood router bit but I couldn’t find any 3/32” round-over bits specifically for metal that weren’t stupid-expensive.  So I went with this one and it performed admirably in this situation.

First I rounded over all the short corners, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091b-SteamChestCoverCasings-1-DSC_8658.jpg)

Then I rounded over all the long edges.  It appears easy, but there was a lot of setup time for each unique edge.  You have to get the depth and side cut set just right so you don’t get a stairstep on the side of the round-over.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091b-SteamChestCoverCasings-2-DSC_8661.jpg)

But eventually, I got it all completed, then buffed it up on a 3M abrasive wheel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091b-SteamChestCoverCasings-3-DSC_8663.jpg)

And here’s the cylinders up to this point.  I’ll eventually make little brass nuts to fit on top and hold the casings in place.  But for now, they’ll just sit there looking pretty! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/091b-SteamChestCoverCasings-4-DSC_8665.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Johnmcc69 on July 22, 2021, 11:09:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Real nice work Kim!
 Quietly watching & enjoying the journey!

  :popcorn:
 John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 23, 2021, 02:24:40 AM
Thanks John,
And what a journey it is, eh? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 23, 2021, 02:36:20 AM
Never tried a woid router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts.   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 24, 2021, 11:56:13 PM
Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts.   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you!  guess I was wrong there, eh? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 24, 2021, 11:59:26 PM
Chapter 14.5 – Rear Cylinder Heads


Today I started the Rear Cylinder Heads.  These will hold the O-ring retainer for the main cylinder rod and provide one of the mountings the crosshead guides.

I made them from 1.5” round 360 brass stock.  I mounted the bar in the 4 jaw chuck with a brass scrap wrapped around it to keep from marring the bar, then proceeded to turn the general shape for the Rear Cylinder Head.  Careful work, but pretty straightforward.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092a-RearCyllinderHeads-1-DSC_8671.jpg)

Then I drilled a #12 hole all the way through the part (just a hair over 3/16”), then enlarged 7/16” of it to M size and followed that with a small boring bar to bring the O-ring holder to the correct size (0.320”).   
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092a-RearCyllinderHeads-2-DSC_8673.jpg)

With all the concentric elements completed, I cut the part off leaving a 1/16” boss on the backside to mate with the cylinder.  Here are the two rear cylinder heads up to this point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092a-RearCyllinderHeads-3-DSC_8679.jpg)

I’ve still got to drill holes to mount the head to the cylinder, the crosshead guides to the head, and to retain the O-ring.  So still a lot to do on these parts.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 25, 2021, 12:01:41 AM
Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts.   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you!  guess I was wrong there, eh? :)

Kim
Maybe I did at one point - dont recall!  I know I've used quarter-round end mills.   :thinking:     Too many projects, not enough brain cells surviving the Elfensteiner beer with the elves...!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2021, 12:21:34 AM
Never tried a wood router bit for brass, nice idea for light cuts.   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Huh, I'm sure I've seen other people on this forum use wood router bits like this, I could have sworn that one of them was you!  guess I was wrong there, eh? :)

Kim
Maybe I did at one point - dont recall!  I know I've used quarter-round end mills.   :thinking:     Too many projects, not enough brain cells surviving the Elfensteiner beer with the elves...!
Gotta watch that Elfensteiner!  It can really sneak up on you after 50-60 thimble-steins!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2021, 11:10:39 PM
I made a little progress on the rear cylinder heads today.

I started by creating a spreadsheet for the table of offsets needed to create the PDC for the cylinder/cylinder heads.  It’s a fairly simple bit of trig.  The only wrinkle is that if I used the same surfaces for reference on both ends of the cylinder, I’d have to recalibrate my DRO.  I didn’t want to do that, so for one end of the cylinder I used the steam port as the X-reference, for the other end I used the flat on the opposite side (if you look at the picture, you’ll see what I mean).  For the Y-reference, I used the steam port face in both cases (so the Y values stay the same between the two cases).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092b-RearCyllinderHeads-Cylinder_PDC_Calcs.jpg)

I mounted the cylinder head to the cylinder using a few small pieces of double side sticky tape.  Using the right side of the above table, I drilled the six holes to #37 (tapping holes for 3-48).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092b-RearCyllinderHeads-1-DSC_8680.jpg)

Then I went around again and drilled ONLY through the cylinder head with 3-48 clearance hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092b-RearCyllinderHeads-2-DSC_8685.jpg)

And finally, removed the cylinder head and tapped the holes 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092b-RearCyllinderHeads-3-DSC_8689.jpg)

Here’s where I’m at now showing both cylinder heads mounted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092b-RearCyllinderHeads-4-DSC_8693.jpg)

That’s enough for today - the shop is too hot and I’m heading in!

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 26, 2021, 12:31:10 AM
Those turned out great Kim!
If it were me I would sweep the bore with a dial indicator and use the center of the bore for my X/Y datum. Maybe there is a reason that I'm not seeing to use a different point?
I would still use one of the flat surfaces to align the casting but sweep each end to ensure that the covers are concentric to the bore.

Anyway, it looks like what you did worked just fine, can't argue with success. :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 26, 2021, 05:16:02 AM
Thanks Dave!  :cheers:

I considered that, but chose to do it this way because the covers will be concentric because there's a 1/16" lip on the backside that fits snugly into the cylinder bore.  And that lip was turned at the same time as the center & packing holes made, so I'm pretty sure they are as concentric as possible.

Also, I hadn't drilled any holes in the cylinder yet either.  The cylinders and headcovers are drilled at the same time this way.

The plus side of doing it this way is that I don't have to zero in the cylinder bore for each side of both cylinders.

The only downside I could think of in using this way is that the bolt hole circle could be a little off-center, and I doubt that would be noticeable.  Regardless, the important features of the headcover should be centered over the cylinder bore, and that is what's most important.

Don't know if that helped explain my thinking.  Please feel free to let me know if I'm wrong here.  I don't have as much experience as many of you.  I'm just doing what seems best to me.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2021, 11:32:29 PM
Finishing up the Rear Cylinder Heads:

With the heads firmly attached to the cylinder, I can now carefully cut a flat, 1/4" long on the exact top and bottom of the head.  Here’s is the first side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092c-RearCylinderHeads-1-DSC_8704.jpg)

And here’s the second:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092c-RearCylinderHeads-2-DSC_8707.jpg)

Then I carefully dial in the center of that flat to drill and tap a 3-48 hole for mounting the crosshead guides on both sides.  These are blind holes and don’t go all the way through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092c-RearCylinderHeads-3-DSC_8709.jpg)

Then, on the third side, I drill and tap a 3-48 through-hole to use for a set screw for the cylinder o-ring retainer.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/092c-RearCylinderHeads-4-DSC_8711.jpg)

And that completes the work on the rear cylinder heads.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2021, 11:38:45 PM
Chapter 14.6 – Front Cylinder Heads

On to the front cylinder heads.  These are much simpler.  The process is very similar but without the o-ring retainer.

The front cylinder heads are also made from the same 1 1/2" 360 stock, turned down to 1 7/16” with a 15/16” boss on the outside.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/093a-FrontCylinderHeads-1-DSC_8696.jpg)

Also on the outside, we’ll add a 3-48 blind hole. This will be used to hold the Cylinder Head Cover in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/093a-FrontCylinderHeads-2-DSC_8699.jpg)

After cutting a 7/8” x 1/16” boss that will center the head on the cylinder bore, I cut the part off, flipped it around in a 15/16” collet, and cleaned up the nubbin left by the cutoff tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/093a-FrontCylinderHeads-3-DSC_8700.jpg)

I then proceeded to drill the bolt hole circle for the front end of the cylinders using the same process as before.  No pictures of this operation since it was identical to the rear cylinder heads.

And here are the completed front heads:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/093a-FrontCylinderHeads-4-DSC_8714.jpg)

And finally, the latest, most up-to-date beauty shot of the cylinders:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/093a-FrontCylinderHeads-5-DSC_8719.jpg)

I only have a few more parts to go to complete the cylinders:

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 30, 2021, 11:47:17 PM
Nice work, Kim! The cylinder/steam chest assemblies are such a key part of a locomotive build, both visually and operationally. Yours are looking fantastic, and I'm quite sure they'll function as well as they look! :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2021, 11:54:29 PM
Thanks Ron!
There's a lot of work in these guys for sure :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 31, 2021, 01:41:23 AM
Looking awesome Kim…… :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on July 31, 2021, 03:15:44 AM
Those came out great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 31, 2021, 05:16:42 AM
Thanks Don and Joe!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 01, 2021, 12:33:04 AM
Chapter 14.7 – Cylinder Head Covers

Today I tackled the Cylinder Head Covers.  These are somewhat decorative covers that go over each end of the cylinder.  I assume the purpose is the same as the Steam Chest Cover Casings – probably heat insulation?  But for me, they are mostly to make it look cool!

The cylinder head covers are made from the same 1.5” brass rod I’ve been using for the last few parts.  However, this time, I leave it at 1.5” diameter and hollow out one end so it will fit over the cylinder heads.

I stared with the rear end-covers.  So the first step was to bore out a hole to 0.830”, just big enough to slip over the o-ring holders in the rear cylinder covers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-1-DSC_8724.jpg)

Here’s the test fit:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-2-DSC_8726.jpg)

Then I bored out to 1.441” (an easy sliding fit for the 1 7/16” cylinder size) to a depth of 15/64”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-3-DSC_8729.jpg)

And lastly, cut it from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-4-DSC_8731.jpg)

I repeated this again for the other cylinder then did two more for the front end.  Those were even easier since they didn’t require the initial 0.830” bore, just a #3-48 clearance hole.

Next, I flipped one of the covers around in my small Taig 3” 4-jaw chuck. After centering it up, I faced off the top side where it was parted:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-5-DSC_8736.jpg)

Then used the 3/32” round-over bit to put a nice corner on the cover.  You'll notice I was using the live center to provide more assurance that the part would stay in place while using that round-over bit as a form tool.  Unfortunately, I couldn't do that for the rear covers since they had a big hole in the center. But I took it slow and careful, using very light cuts, and everything held.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-6-DSC_8734.jpg)

And here are all four of the covers completed.  The top two are the Front Cylinder Head Covers, and the lower two are the Rear Cylinder Head Covers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-7-DSC_8739.jpg)

And as I like to do, I’ll finish this post with the cylinder family shot, having added the front and rear covers to the cylinder assemblies.  In this picture, I have one facing forward and one facing back so you can see how the covers look on both ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/094a-CylinderHeadCovers-8-DSC_8743.jpg)

And by this time I was melting into a puddle on the shop floor so it was time for me to ooze back into the air-conditioned house.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 01, 2021, 12:37:09 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Looking great Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 01, 2021, 12:45:51 AM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 01, 2021, 02:37:32 AM
More Beautiness! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on August 01, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Fine looking assemblies!

Cheers Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 01, 2021, 07:47:10 PM
Thank you Ron and Joe!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 02, 2021, 12:02:49 AM
Chapter 14.8 – Piston Rod  Bushings and Valve Stem Bushings

OK, so I was calling them o-Ring retainers, but Kozo calls them bushings.  Regardless, that’s what I made today.

They were a simple turning exercise made from 3/8” nominal 932 bearing bronze. The bearing bronze comes about 50-60 thou oversize, so it really started at 0.425 rather than 0.375, but who’s counting.

Here’s one of Piston Rod Bushings being cut off after drilling and reaming.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/095a-PistonRodBushings-1-DSC_8745.jpg)

And here I’ve flipped it around in a smaller collet to face off the end that was cut off.  For you observant folks out there, yes, this is a ‘postproduction’ shot.  I forgot to take the picture so I stuck one of the bushings back in the collet after I’d already stamped it. Oops :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/095a-PistonRodBushings-2-DSC_8748.jpg)

And here’s the cylinders to date with all the parts attached including the new bushings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/095a-PistonRodBushings-3-DSC_8753.jpg)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 02, 2021, 09:59:53 PM
Chapter 14.9 – Bolts and Nuts

Now, THIS post finishes up the Cylinders.  In my previous list of what was left to do, I forgot to mention the nuts and bolts.  There are two tiny bolts that hold the front head covers in place, and there are two little nuts that secure the steam chest cover casings. This is what I made today.

The nuts and bolts were made from 5/32" hex brass.  Here's a shot of one of the bolts being cut off after threading:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/096a-BoltsAndNuts-1-DSC_8760.jpg)

And here’s a nut, just after threading, ready to be cut off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/096a-BoltsAndNuts-2-DSC_8762.jpg)

And finally, here are all the nuts and bolts made today.  The larger 3/8” nut on the right is actually for the steam-T that will be coming up next.  So this is a bit of a teaser for upcoming episodes!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/096a-BoltsAndNuts-3-DSC_8770.jpg)

And finally, the traditional cylinder shot. This one is from the front end so you can see the snazzy new brass bolts that hold the front head cover in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/096a-BoltsAndNuts-4-DSC_8774.jpg)

I hope you're as excited as I am to get on to something besides the cylinders soon!

Thanks for checking in with me today!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 02, 2021, 11:33:45 PM
Great looking parts!  Whats up next in the queue?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 03, 2021, 05:55:00 AM
Great looking parts!  Whats up next in the queue?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

The steam-T, which will connect the two cylinders while supplying steam and directing away the exhaust!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 09, 2021, 07:31:28 PM
So many little pieces  :)  :)  :wine1:

What do you do for small threads? As I see it the USA threads go down to 0-80 which is around M1.6/12BA. George Britnell seems to move to metric threads for the small sizes.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2021, 06:11:33 AM
So many little pieces  :)  :)  :wine1:

What do you do for small threads? As I see it the USA threads go down to 0-80 which is around M1.6/12BA. George Britnell seems to move to metric threads for the small sizes.

Interesting question.  The small threads in that last post were 3-48, which isn't really THAT small (way bigger than 0-80).  But I do use 2-56, 1-64, and 0-80 in this build too. 

I've never used anything smaller than 0-80, so not sure exactly what I'd do.  I do believe there's a #00 standard size too, but I'm not overly familiar with it.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 11, 2021, 11:49:05 AM
The standard thread sizes do keep going down in size, 00-90, 00-120, and beyond - smallest taps I have are 00-90, rarely use that one and very delicate. Watchmakers stuff!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on August 11, 2021, 01:34:38 PM
Those cylinder assemblies are phenomenal - the detailing in terms of putting fillets on all the corners of the covers really sets them off, and they just look like gold all in brass like that. That's some very fine and detailed work.

It's fascinating to go back several pages and review and watch everything coming together from stock material. I had missed the post on the rectangular outer covers for the steam chests, so I'm glad I caught up on all that.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2021, 04:57:23 PM
The standard thread sizes do keep going down in size, 00-90, 00-120, and beyond - smallest taps I have are 00-90, rarely use that one and very delicate. Watchmakers stuff!
Yes, what Chris said :)   I knew there was a 00, just wasn't sure of the TPI.  00-90 it is. :)  And yes, those get very small!

Here's a link I just found that shows the sizes of those small screw sizes: https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html (https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html)

0-80 has a major diameter of 0.060", just under 1/16" of an inch.  The 00-90 is 0.044" and 000-120 is 0.034" (that's a hair over 1/32" - that's small!  :o).

I've never used anything under 0-80, which itself is plenty small.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2021, 04:59:05 PM
Those cylinder assemblies are phenomenal - the detailing in terms of putting fillets on all the corners of the covers really sets them off, and they just look like gold all in brass like that. That's some very fine and detailed work.

It's fascinating to go back several pages and review and watch everything coming together from stock material. I had missed the post on the rectangular outer covers for the steam chests, so I'm glad I caught up on all that.

Thanks Stuart!  Appreciate you following along.
I hope to get back out to the shop some today, now that I'm back from camping!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dan Rowe on August 11, 2021, 05:46:19 PM

Here's a link I just found that shows the sizes of those small screw sizes: https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html (https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/misc/tapsizes.html)

0-80 has a major diameter of 0.060", just under 1/16" of an inch.  The 00-90 is 0.044" and 000-120 is 0.034" (that's a hair over 1/32" - that's small!  :o).

Kim, That tap chart has an error. 00-90 is 0.047" in diameter each screw size is 0.013" apart so 0.060" - 0.013" = 0.047".

http://www.custompartnet.com/tap-size-chart

I use 1.2mm for 00-90 most of the time. My smallest tap and die combination is 000-120 but I have not yet had to go that small.

Cheers Dan
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2021, 12:09:21 AM
Kim, That tap chart has an error. 00-90 is 0.047" in diameter each screw size is 0.013" apart so 0.060" - 0.013" = 0.047".

http://www.custompartnet.com/tap-size-chart

I use 1.2mm for 00-90 most of the time. My smallest tap and die combination is 000-120 but I have not yet had to go that small.

Cheers Dan

Wow, thanks Dan, that's really interesting!   I never realized there was a pattern to the random-seeming numbered machine screw sizes! That's pretty neat - 0.013" difference each.  I checked and it absolutely follows that pattern all the way up to 12-24!  I learn something new on this forum every day!  Well, I just googled and came up with that chart. The link you provided is clearly better, thank you!

And 0-80 is plenty small  I can't imagine using 000 or 0000!  That approaches trying to thread a hair or something!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2021, 12:11:25 AM
Chapter 14.10 – Tee

After spending some time with my new toy this morning (see my other post on the Edge Pro Tram:  https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,10455.msg239399.html#msg239399 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,10455.msg239399.html#msg239399)) it was time to move forward with the next part; the Tee.  I’ve been calling it a Steam Tee, but I guess Kozo just calls it a Tee.

The Tee is made out of a couple of hunks of brass that will, eventually, be soldered together to make the single Tee shape.  The larger one was cut from a 1” square brass bar and the smaller from a 0.5”x 1.25” bar.   It probably should have been a 0.5”x1” bar, but this is what I had, so there you go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097a-Tee-1-DSC_8785.jpg)

With my newly trammed mill, I squared the parts up and took them down to their basic size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097a-Tee-2-DSC_8788.jpg)

Here they are post sizing.  The bigger one still needs shaping, but that will have to wait till tomorrow.  It was getting too hot for me!  (Yet another heat advisory in the NW here – it’s going past 100oF today and tomorrow (Yikes!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097a-Tee-3-DSC_8790.jpg)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 12, 2021, 02:25:28 AM
Quote
I’ve been calling it a Steam Tee, but I guess Kozo just calls it a Tee.
I think your use of the term "Steam Tee" is better. I remember reading that part of Kozo's book and thinking "what exactly is this Tee thing for?" and having to look around at the drawings to figure it out.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2021, 05:19:30 AM
Thanks Ron!
It's not often I get something better than Kozo.  But then, English is probably not his first language either, eh?  His instructions are FAR better than anything I could do in English, much less in Japanese!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 12, 2021, 10:49:02 PM
Now to finish the major shaping of the crossbar of the Tee.  This is an odd-shaped piece, but we start by taking out two chunks on the bottom and the top, then removing a 1/2” Dado for the upright.  Here I’ve marked out the parts that need to be removed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097b-Tee-1-DSC_8794.jpg)

Using a 1/2" end mill I opened up the two outer slots on the top.  These are both 0.250” deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097b-Tee-2-DSC_8796.jpg)

At this point, I flipped it over and did the same to the bottom (no pic) then flipped it back to the top side and used a 3/8” end mill to carve out the 1/2" slot in the center - this one is only 5/32" deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097b-Tee-3-DSC_8798.jpg)

So here’s the state of play at close of shop today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097b-Tee-4-DSC_8800.jpg)

And here’s what it will look like after I solder the two parts together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097b-Tee-5-DSC_8804.jpg)

I’m done for today.  I won’t be doing any soldering now - it’s passing 100oF again today and I am NOT going to put up the garage door when it’s that hot!  Hopefully, I can get it done early tomorrow before it gets too hot, but I’m not sure that will happen.  They’re saying it will be almost 80oF tomorrow at 9:00 am which is earlier than I usually get out to the shop.  So it may have to be Saturday or next week. We’ll see.  This hot weather is not really my favorite :(

Thanks for checking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 13, 2021, 01:02:52 PM
Make sure that the length of the tee is the same as the outside width of the frame, or slightly longer so that you can adjust it during assembly.  The ends of the tee mount flush to the cylinders, and then the cylinders to the frame.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 13, 2021, 08:06:51 PM
Make sure that the length of the tee is the same as the outside width of the frame, or slightly longer so that you can adjust it during assembly.  The ends of the tee mount flush to the cylinders, and then the cylinders to the frame.

Yikes!  Good question! I haven't tried that yet  :o

[...sounds of feet running out to the shop...]

a few minutes later

[...sounds of feet walking calmly back in...]

Yes, of course, it fits.  I made it exactly to Kozo's specifications!  What could possibly go wrong  :LittleDevil:

Thanks for mentioning this KVOM.  I knew where this went but I never even thought to check. That would have been a good thing to do before my next update.  But now I've done it!  Better now than later at least :)

Thanks for the helpful hint!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 13, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
Well, it was only in the high 70’s at 9:00 am this morning so I decided to go ahead and silver solder the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097c-Tee-1-DSC_8807.jpg)

Following some time in the pickle and a quick clean-up, here’s what it looks like now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097c-Tee-2-DSC_8814.jpg)

And by 10:00 it’s breaking into the 80’s.  Time for me to put the door down and go in.

Next, I’ll start the finer shaping and drilling of the steam passages.

Kim

PS  Kvom, I didn't see your post till I was getting ready to post my update today!  Turns out everything is hunky-dory.  :D Thank you for thinking of this.  It would have been worse the further along I went if it didn't fit!  :-\
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on August 13, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Nice soldering work Kim, that came out really well. What is the pickle you are referring to? A basic passivation of some sort?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 13, 2021, 11:20:07 PM
That does look quite nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 14, 2021, 05:20:26 AM
Nice soldering work Kim, that came out really well. What is the pickle you are referring to? A basic passivation of some sort?
Thanks Stuart!

The pickle bath is a mild acid solution that helps remove the flux and clean the part that's been soldered.  You should wash the part after pickling to rinse off the mild acid.

I've been using Sparex as my pickle solution.  It's safer than the traditional sulfuric acid based pickles anyway!

Kim

 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 14, 2021, 05:20:51 AM
Thank you Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 14, 2021, 11:44:21 PM
My next step was to drill the steam passages.  To mark their location I clocked in the part on the mill and marked the spot for both the inlet passage and the exhaust passage on the top.  Sorry, no picture. Guess I forgot.

I took it to the lathe and dialed it in the steam input spot using the 4-jaw.  I even started to do this before I remembered to take a pic!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-1-DSC_8818.jpg)

I turned a spigot where the steam input pipe will be attached.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-2-DSC_8825.jpg)

And drilled the steam inlet passage all the way through the Tee.  I started with one of my better (read more accurate) drills, but they are all screw-machine length, and I needed something quite a bit longer to reach all the way through the part. So I broke out my el-cheapo Harbor Freight jobber length bit set and used that to finish up the last inch or so of the through-hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-3-DSC_8827.jpg)

Here I’ve just drilled a little wide spot in the end – I believe this is to receive the olive in the compression connection with the input steam pipe.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-4-DSC_8829.jpg)

And finally, I cut the 5/16”-24 threads into the steam input spigot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-5-DSC_8831.jpg)

I’d carefully added a center spot for the exhaust in my first step, but then my next step (cutting the inlet spigot) shaved that right off.  So, back to the mill to re-create the exhaust location.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-6-DSC_8834.jpg)

Now, back to the lathe, same setup, just centered on the exhaust spot this time.  And drilling an H hole all the way through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-7-DSC_8836.jpg)

Then I drilled the tapping size for 5/16”-24 and threaded the exhaust connection.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097d-Tee-8-DSC_8841.jpg)

And that was where I stopped today.  Tomorrow I’ll work on the cross holes for the steam and exhaust passages.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 14, 2021, 11:47:37 PM
Hi Kim

Nice set ups!   Is that a roll tap?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 14, 2021, 11:55:43 PM
Thanks Dave,

Yeah, that's a forming tap.  I went through a phase where all the taps I bought were roll-form taps.  I found them to be a little stronger and work well in softer metals.  But lately, I've found that if I get a good cutting tap (like Union Butterfield spiral-tip or something) that they work really well too.  I just have to be careful which kind of tap I have so that I use the right hole size (for cutting or for forming).   ;D

The only downside I've found to the roll form taps is that you tend to get a little mound pushed up around the hole that you have to file down or have a nice big chamfer there from a hole reamer or something.  Not a big deal, but something you have to take care of.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 14, 2021, 11:59:09 PM
Interesting!    I am considering a roll form tap for the con rods on the 12, for added strength.   something to keep in mind

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 15, 2021, 12:09:15 AM
Interesting!    I am considering a roll form tap for the con rods on the 12, for added strength.   something to keep in mind

Dave
Roll form taps add strength?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 15, 2021, 12:21:43 AM
I'm to understand that they do as the threads are formed....not cut.   so they have better performance.

.....Anybody have some paper on these?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 15, 2021, 05:20:52 AM
No paper, sorry.  But I have heard that they work harden the threads as they are making them since they are pushing the metal around.  Don't know how significant that is, but that's the non-substantiated info I remember hearing :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: derekwarner on August 15, 2021, 01:52:22 PM
A bit long winded  :Director:  , but Parker Hannifen have been producing their 3H series of hydraulic cylinders in the US for 50 years plus, which alll include tie-rods with rolled threads

So the bar stock is undersized, then the threads rolled up to size, and as Kim says ....'the metal is moved around'

So this eliminates the sharp thread cut V in the root or valley of the thread, replacing it with a rolled V profile with a rounded root profile and mirror polished thread faces

All a bit subjective, the thread rolling does produce that mirror thread surface, so by increasing skin hardness on the thread face which can reduce galling, however the rolling process does not alter the mechanical properties of the heat-treated bar stock

There are no Wifes Tales here :Lol:    , however have not seen any low production of rolled threads  :killcomputer: as commercially available

https://www.parker.com/literature/Industrial%20Cylinder/cylinder/cat/english/HY08-1114-6_NA_2H-3H%20.pdf

Derek
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 15, 2021, 02:18:30 PM
Thanks Derek.

I'm going to carry this subject on over in the tools thread, so as not to muddy up Kim's build, but I'd like to talk about it for sure!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 15, 2021, 11:27:48 PM
Thanks, everyone. I certainly wouldn't worry about muddying up my thread :)  But it probably will make it easier for people to find in the future :)
I love these kinds of conversations.  I learn so  much!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 19, 2021, 12:05:13 AM
To finish up the steam passages in the Tee, I started in the mill by marking the locations for drilling.  While in the mill I also spotted and drilled the 5-40 clearance holes for the mounting screws (which will mate with the cylinders).  The black circle is to help me remember that the marked hole is the exhaust hole and should be the larger of the two.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-1-DSC_8842.jpg)

Now, Kozo shows drilling these passages in the lathe, but since I’ve got it all set up nice and square in the mill, I decided to go ahead and do it here.  In Kozo’s process, you haven’t squared up these passage faces yet.  But I did that some time ago in my process.  So they are square with the world and parallel to each other.  I figure it would be easier just to do it here and should work just as well, as long as I can keep the holes square with everything.  And it seems to have worked just fine.

So, I drilled the steam inlet hole clear to the center, to meet the through-hole drilled on the lathe (upper rightish hole). Then did the same to the exhaust passage (lower leftish, larger hole).  I then flipped it over and did the same to the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-2-DSC_8844.jpg)

With the steam passages and cylinder mounting holes drilled, I wanted to make sure things were lining up properly.  So I connected it up to the cylinders.  To do this I ended up having to grind down one of my 5/32” hex keys.  The space in there is pretty tight (and even more so on the other side with the upright part of the Tee in the way.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-3-DSC_8848.jpg)

And here’s the Tee spanning between the two cylinders.  The Tee’s not done yet. Still more shaping to go. You can’t quite see it in this photo, but the frame mounting holes along the other side of the cylinder are covered up by the mounting flange of the Tee.  I need to shave those down so it doesn’t get in the way of the mounting holes (and so it fits in the pentagonal holes in the frame.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-4-DSC_8850.jpg)

Doing this calls for some hefty 45o chamfers on the mounting flanges.  For this setup I used some little V-blocks underneath, to hold things at 45o.  The V-block was held in the vise to keep it square with the mill.  To clamp the part in place for milling I used another 45o block on top (I’d made this for some other purpose in the past).  The thing on top of the 45 is a 30o block, but it’s just used as a spacer so that the clamp is above the Tee upright when it’s facing up (which it will be for some of the cuts).  Here you can see I’ve milled off one of the front corners of the Tee flange.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-5-DSC_8853.jpg)

And here’s after all four corners have been removed (note, they are not symmetrical – this IS intentional.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-6-DSC_8855.jpg)

After doing the other side I tested in the frame window and had that happy feeling because it fit!  :cartwheel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-7-DSC_8856.jpg)

As Kvom mentioned earlier, the Tee has to fit between the frame and then hook up to both cylinders.  I thought I could just wiggle it into place and then attach the cylinders.  Not the case.  It won’t be wiggled into place. I’m going to have to take the frame apart to get the Tee in place  :-\
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097e-Tee-8-DSC_8859.jpg)

But it should fit at least.  I did check :)

However, the Tee isn’t quite finished yet.  I still have some work on the bottom to do.  I have to shave it down by 1/16” and add some mounting holes for the steam and exhaust deflectors.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 19, 2021, 12:16:20 AM
Great progress, looking excellent!  I can see why you label things, bet that its very easy to get ends/directions confused on those shapes.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 19, 2021, 12:41:56 AM
All nice, neat, and tidy. Great work, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 19, 2021, 01:19:21 AM
Nice!
That will be quite an accomplishment to have the cylinder assembly mounted in the frame.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on August 19, 2021, 04:25:22 AM
Excellent work Kim ………  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 19, 2021, 05:09:45 AM
Just a thought before disassembling the frame - did you try dropping the tee in diagonally across the frames and rotating it? It may not fit in the Z axis but it might in the XY plane.....the vee shaped ends of the tee may allow a little more leeway in the assy than the top and bottom 90 degree edges. Hope the part fits ..... well..... to a tee!  :facepalm:  :Lol:

Good luck with it, anyway!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 19, 2021, 05:46:32 AM
Thanks Chris, Ron, Dave, Don, and CNR!
Appreciate the comments and encouragement :)

Yeah, I tried getting it in several ways and it just won't go.  The angle you have to turn it to get it between the chassis in the XY plane is even greater than in the Z plane.  It just won't go in.

I thought about possibly filing the corners on the flanges rounder so that it would sneak in, but not only would that look weird, it would leave non-flats on the seating face and for the mounting screws.  And I didn't like that compromise.  I'm going to be taking it apart and reassembling it many times over the next few years, I'm sure.  Might as well get in some additional practice now, right? :)

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on August 19, 2021, 01:25:13 PM
Nice work Kim, that steam T piece looks really neat
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 19, 2021, 05:33:34 PM
Thanks Sam!
The Steam Tee is one of the more interesting parts with all the steam passages and cool shaping.  Right up there with the cylinders!  Too bad you won't be able to see it once the engine's complete!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 19, 2021, 06:40:29 PM
Looking good  :)  :)  :wine1: Is the slight pink tinge on the cylinders due to the pickling?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 19, 2021, 10:43:55 PM
Looking good  :)  :)  :wine1: Is the slight pink tinge on the cylinders due to the pickling?

Thank you Roger!

I believe that the pinkish color you're seeing is because the cylinders are phosphor bronze, as opposed to brass.  But it's true that the brass often picks up a pink coloration on the surface.  It doesn't take a lot to remove it though.  But in this case, I think I'd run out of cylinder before I got rid of the color you're seeing there!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 19, 2021, 10:48:36 PM
To finish up the Tee, I needed to drill and tap the mounting holes for a couple of insert gizmos – the exhaust deflector and the steam deflector.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-1-DSC_8862.jpg)

Then I drilled out the lower part of the vertical steam passages for the deflectors.  I had to remember to add 1/16” to the depth of these holes since the dimensions are given from the final shape, and I haven’t done that step yet (same for the tapped holes above.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-2-DSC_8865.jpg)

But now, I did. I milled off 1/16” from the lower face of the Tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-3-DSC_8867.jpg)

I set a parallel across the Tee to help demonstrate what I just did – note that it’s 1/16” shorter than the flanges on the Tee? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-4-DSC_8871.jpg)

All cleaned up and ready for action!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-5-DSC_8873.jpg)

In this case, “action” meant removing one side of the chassis frame so I could insert the Tee in its place, then screw the cylinders onto the frame and into the tee.  Here you can see three of the four #5-40 SCHS that hold the cylinder to the side frame, and one of the two that attach the Tee to the cylinder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-6-DSC_8886.jpg)

And finally, the state of play of the A3 as of today.  It’s pretty cool having the cylinders mounted!  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/097f-Tee-7-DSC_8878.jpg)

Interestingly, the whole thing is VERY front-heavy right now.  It doesn’t take much to make the back end just flip up.  I assume that will be corrected as we start to add more parts to the middle and back of the engine.  But it sure feels funny right now  :-\

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: derekwarner on August 19, 2021, 11:54:06 PM
Kim....... not being familiar with this engine, design or build, what type of gasket material will you be using on these two principal joint faces between the T distribution body and the cylinder block faces?

Derek 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 20, 2021, 12:36:45 AM
Quote
Interestingly, the whole thing is VERY front-heavy right now.
I had the same issue with the little 0-4-0 I built. I kept a weight attached to the rear of the frame until the boiler went on, then it wasn't needed anymore.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 20, 2021, 04:59:01 AM
Kim....... not being familiar with this engine, design or build, what type of gasket material will you be using on these two principal joint faces between the T distribution body and the cylinder block faces?

Derek

In the book, Kozo recommends the Loctite Gasket Eliminator (518 I believe).  So that's what I'm planning to use.  Though I won't put any on till I get things painted and re-assembled.  Figure that should be a year or two out  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 20, 2021, 05:01:51 AM
Quote
Interestingly, the whole thing is VERY front-heavy right now.
I had the same issue with the little 0-4-0 I built. I kept a weight attached to the rear of the frame until the boiler went on, then it wasn't needed anymore.

Wonder if that's just the way it is with smaller engines - or maybe only if you start with the cylinders.  If I had started with the boiler and firebox, I probably wouldn't be having this issue! :)

No biggie.  I may use your solution too.  So far, I've just been setting the front and rear bumpers on blocks to keep the whole thing up off the bench and levelish.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 21, 2021, 01:09:32 AM
Hi Kim

The 518 gasket eliminator is a great product, I have been using it for years.
The running gear looks real nice with the cylinders added.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 21, 2021, 01:23:35 AM
Hi Kim

The 518 gasket eliminator is a great product, I have been using it for years.
The running gear looks real nice with the cylinders added.

Dave
What kind of temperature can the 518 withstand? Whats it like to take apart again?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 21, 2021, 05:32:10 AM
Hi Kim

The 518 gasket eliminator is a great product, I have been using it for years.
The running gear looks real nice with the cylinders added.

Dave
What kind of temperature can the 518 withstand? Whats it like to take apart again?

The temperature range I found quoted online -65F to 300F (-55C to 150C).  That seemed like an acceptable temperature range for steam.

As for how hard it is to disassemble, Dave might have some better input here, but Kozo does recommend putting in screws to help break the seal on any of the surfaces you seal with this (like the cylinder heads and the steam chest cover).  So it might be a little difficult to open up...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 22, 2021, 05:24:04 PM
With regards to the 518 Gasket Eliminator, it ca be a real bugger to disassemble items that have been sealed together with it. But that really depends on the joint design and how much surface area is involved. Jacking screws or some sort of relief where you can get a prying tool would be a good idea. If the area is small and you have something to grip it may be possible to just pop it apart.

I went to a Loctite class many years ago for work, during the class the instructor sealed two pipe flanges together with 518. One flange was blank and the other had an air chuck on it. After the sealer had cured he loosened the bolts but did not remove them, he proceeded to pressurize the assembly with a couple hundred pounds from a gas cylinder and the flanges did not leak or blow apart.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2021, 12:34:48 AM
Thanks Dave! Appreciate the info on the 518 gasket eliminator.  Sounds like good stuff!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2021, 12:42:58 AM
Chapter 14.11 – Steam Deflector and Exhaust Deflector

These last parts are really part of the Tee.  The first is the Steam Deflector, which splits the steam into the two passageways, one to the left, and one to the right, while mixing in some oil to lubricate the cylinders. The second is the Exhaust Deflector, which takes the exhaust from the two cylinders and curves it up toward the chimney.

Starting with the Steam Deflector; this was made from a length of 0.5” x 0.75” brass bar.  I started by centering it up in the 4-jaw then drilling a tinny (#56 I think) hole  0.75” deep – this needs to go all the way through the deflector.  This little hole will be for delivering the oil.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-01-DSC_8888.jpg)

Then I quickly drilled a slightly larger hole to about 1/16”, again, for use with the compression connection to the oil input.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-02-DSC_8889.jpg)

Now we start making the deflector take shape.  The first 1/4" will be threaded 5/16” for the oil connection.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-03-DSC_8892.jpg)

Then, using a flat-tipped parting tool, I brought a 3/8” length to 5/16” diameter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-04-DSC_8893.jpg)

Next, I cut the 5/16-24 threads.  I was supposed to have done this before the last step, but at least I remembered to do it before I the part off!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-05-DSC_8895.jpg)

After cutting it off, I moved to the mill where I found the center with a gauge pin, then drilled and countersunk the mounting holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-06-DSC_8899.jpg)

Flipping the part over, I used a 45o chamfer tool to bring the business end of the steam deflector to a peak.  This is where the steam, coming in from above, will be split left and right, and mix with the oil.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-07-DSC_8904.jpg)

Oh!  And one last thing I almost forgot – I need to thin the 1/2" width down to 15/32”, so I shaved 1/64” off both sides.  This operation completes the steam deflector.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-08-DSC_8907.jpg)

Now, for the Exhaust Deflector.  This one is 25/32” long which means I couldn’t make it out of the same 0.5” x 0.75” bar. So I switched to a 0.875” diameter brass rod for this one.  The exhaust deflector is simpler (no oil connection).  I made the basic shape then cut off the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-09-DSC_8911.jpg)

Next, I cut the width of the base down to 15/32”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-10-DSC_8914.jpg)

To find the center on the mill, I used a coaxial center finder (fun little tool!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-11-DSC_8916.jpg)

Then drilled the mounting holes:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-12-DSC_8917.jpg)

To help redirect the exhaust upward Kozo uses a curve surface here.  I used a 3/8” ball end mill to get the curve shape:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-13-DSC_8922.jpg)

And finally, flipping it over, I countersunk for the mounting screw heads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-14-DSC_8923.jpg)

And here are the two completed deflectors; the one on the left is the exhaust and on the right is the steam (with the extra oil connection).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-15-DSC_8926.jpg)

And finally, I mounted the deflectors in the steam Tee.  If you recall, there were two holes that went through to the bottom of the Tee.  Here’s where the deflectors will be inserted.  The hole on the left is the steam delivery, the one on the right is the exhaust.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-17-1-DSC_8935.JPG)

Here they are after mounting.  Not quite as interesting of a picture, but hopefully they'll be more functional inserted in the right place!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/098a-Deflectors-16-DSC_8928.jpg)

That completes the cylinder assembly.  Next up will be the pistons and crossheads.  Unfortunately, there’ll be a break in our regularly scheduled build as I will be taking some days (weeks?  months?  :o) to clean up the garage.  Not just my shop, but the other half where all the excess house stuff gets stored.  While that will take some time, it will be good to get it cleaned up!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 23, 2021, 03:25:53 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good luck with the garage cleanup. BTW I know a guy on here with a Marion steam shovel, a Mann steam truck, and lots of shop elves, if you need a hand...... :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2021, 05:19:50 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good luck with the garage cleanup. BTW I know a guy on here with a Marion steam shovel, a Mann steam truck, and lots of shop elves, if you need a hand...... :Lol:

Thanks for the offer of Chris's equipment and shop hands.  I could definitely use the help!  Though I think the most help would be a great big dumpster sitting in my driveway for a week!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 23, 2021, 05:28:36 AM
Oh those are the best kinds of clean ups!    It's harder to retrieve if its in a dumpster!!!

Good luck with it Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 23, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Good luck with the garage cleanup. BTW I know a guy on here with a Marion steam shovel, a Mann steam truck, and lots of shop elves, if you need a hand...... :Lol:


That sounds interes....ting....   HEY!!     :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 23, 2021, 06:48:28 PM
 :naughty:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2021, 11:06:29 PM
It’s been three weeks since my last update, and during that time the garage has gotten a LOT cleaner!  It’s so clean you could eat off the floor! …er… well, I wouldn’t suggest that.  But you can at least see the floor!  And THAT’s a big improvement!  I’ve still got several piles of stuff to get out of the garage yet (dump, Haz-Mat, e-waste, stuff to re-home) but it’s WAY better and should be even better when I get all the ‘in transition’ piles taken care of.

But today, I have an update on my Pennsy Switcher!

Chapter 15.1 – Pistons

Kozo specifies Phosphor Bronze for the pistons, the same material as the cylinders.  So I used 932 Bearing Bronze (SAE 660) same as I did for the cylinders. I used 1” nominal round stock and turned it down to just under 7/8” (0.8735”) to allow for different expansion between the piston and the cylinder.  Then used the 1/8” Warner grooving tool to cut a 9/64” groove for some graphite yarn to seal the piston.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/099a-Pistons-1-DSC_8939.jpg)

Then I drilled and reamed a 3/16” hole in the center for the piston rod, and cut off the part, slightly over length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/099a-Pistons-2-DSC_8942.jpg)

Finally, I faced the cut-off end to get the desired piston length, holding it in the 7/8” collet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/099a-Pistons-3-DSC_8943.jpg)

And here are the completed set of pistons.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/099a-Pistons-4-DSC_8947.jpg)

Next up will be the piston rod.

Thanks for your patience during my once per decade garage cleaning ritual :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 14, 2021, 11:16:10 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on September 15, 2021, 12:11:12 AM
No worries Kim    watching along!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 15, 2021, 12:43:39 AM
Glad you got your chores done and can get back to playing! Pretty pistons. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 15, 2021, 04:48:32 AM
 Yep…….I…………likeeeeeee…  :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2021, 05:11:20 AM
Thanks for stopping by, Chris, Dave, Ron, and Don!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 15, 2021, 12:22:07 PM
Great finish on the pistons Kim! Phos bronze is nice to turn, I find.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 15, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Glad to see you back on making  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: (cleaning up does have to be done though  ::) )
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on September 15, 2021, 09:10:04 PM
Lovely work Kim, and nice pics / descriptions.          Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on September 15, 2021, 09:13:30 PM
Nice work on the pistons Kim

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2021, 05:50:21 AM
Thank you Cnr, Roger, Terry, and Samc,
Appreciate the comments!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on September 16, 2021, 01:22:53 PM
Still following along. Congrats on the garage clean up. I do find a good clean up and reorg of garage / shoppe to be immensely satisfying.

Some really top quality parts coming out - must be satisfying to be back at it again.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2021, 05:30:57 PM
Thanks Stuart!

Yes, it does feel good to have the garage/shop clean!   And yesterday I even moved out several piles of stuff.  Got the e-waste and the Haz-Mat piles delivered to the recycling/processing facilities.  Still several piles to go, but I'm slowly claiming the space back, and it looks and feels good!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2021, 11:31:51 PM
I’ve now rehomed my Taig lathe and mill.  Turns out my brother was interested, so I was happy to have my tools find a new forever home with him! :)  That was fun!  And, as it turns out, he had an old sandblasting cabinet that he was going to get rid of.  So I took his sandblasting cabinet (it’s an old harbor freight cabinet – so nothing too fancy) and now I’ve already filled some of the space I just freed up. A new tool!  Can’t wait to try it out!


Chapter 15.2 – Piston Rods and Pins

The piston rods were made from a 3/16” 303 stainless steel rod.  I turned one end down to 8-36 size and threaded it with a die:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-1-DSC_8952.jpg)

After trimming to length, I used a 0.040” slitting saw to cut a little kerf in the non-threaded end.  Kozo specifies 3/64” here (which is 0.046”) but since it just provides a place for a flat blade screwdriver for when you’re you’re trying to screw the rod in or out of the crosshead to change the length, I figured the slit width wasn’t too critical.  And I HAD a 0.040” slitting saw, but not a 3/64”.  Hope I’m not wrong here :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-2-DSC_8956.jpg)

The next step was to drill a 1/16” hole for a cross pin, to hold the piston on the piston rod.  To do this, I attached the pistons to the rods using 608 green Loctite and left it to cure overnight.  The next day I drilled and reamed the 1/16” hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-3-DSC_8962.jpg)
This worked great for the first piston, but on the second one, I broke the 1/16” reamer inside the hole :(.  That’s a tiny reamer, and stainless is pretty hard.  Guess I tried moving a little fast for it.  Anyway, I was able to push the broken end of the reamer out and then I just used a 1/16” drill bit all the way through.

Here I’ve just cut the 1/16” pins from a 1/16” stainless rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-4-DSC_8963.jpg)

I wanted to use a friction fit for the pins. To do this I used a pair of vice grips to rough up the surface of the pin.  That worked quite well for the reamed hole.  For the drilled one I just had to be a little more heavy-handed with the roughing.  But it worked. And I was able to get a nice friction fit on both pins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-5-DSC_8966.jpg)


Chapter 15.3 – Nuts

The nuts get their own section. Go figure.  Anyway, I used 1/4" 303 stainless hex to make a couple of 8-36 nuts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-6-DSC_8968.jpg)

And here are the finished piston assemblies, complete with pin and nut. The nut will lock the rod in place against the crosshead so the rod doesn’t twist and change length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/100a-RodsPinsAndNuts-7-DSC_8969.jpg)

That’s my update for today, thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 18, 2021, 11:51:18 PM
I'm glad your Taigs stayed in the family. You'll be able to visit them once in awhile!
More really nice work! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2021, 12:02:19 AM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on September 19, 2021, 03:00:10 AM
Coming right along Kim!   Nice looking pistons!


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 19, 2021, 07:02:28 AM
Thanks, Ron, Chris, and Dave!

Yes, I was very happy to pass them along to my brother.  He'll get some good use out of them I'm sure :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2021, 10:23:22 PM
Chapter 15.4 – Crossheads

Next up are the crossheads.  These are kinda complex little parts. 

First, I cut a couple of little disks from some 9/16” 12L14, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/101a-Crossheads-1-DSC_8973.jpg)

Then took a piece of 3/8”x1” 1018 CRS, squared it up, and milled it to the required width of 29/32”.  A very odd size if you ask me! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/101a-Crossheads-2-DSC_8975.jpg)

So I will use these pieces to make up the crossheads shown in this picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/101a-Crossheads-3-DSC_8977.jpg)

But to do that, I want to use a 9/16” end mill.  I thought I had one of those, but it turns out, I don’t (or I can’t find it, which is essentially the same thing).  So, I’ve got one on order and it should be here Wednesday.  So I’ll have to find something else to bide my time till it arrives…

Thanks for taking a look at my minimal progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 20, 2021, 10:26:03 PM
Well into the fiddly-bits stage - looking good!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 21, 2021, 12:22:19 AM
Quote
But to do that, I want to use a 9/16” end mill.  I thought I had one of those, but it turns out, I don’t (or I can’t find it, which is essentially the same thing).
The perennial hazard of cleaning out the garage... :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2021, 10:49:12 PM
Quote
But to do that, I want to use a 9/16” end mill.  I thought I had one of those, but it turns out, I don’t (or I can’t find it, which is essentially the same thing).
The perennial hazard of cleaning out the garage... :shrug:

No joke!  I'll be finding where I sorted things into for years to come!
However, in this case, I think what I remembered is that I have a 9/16" ball nose mill.  I need a square end for this.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2021, 10:53:01 PM
Well, as I was brushing my teeth last night getting ready for bed, I realized that I’d made a complete guffaw with those absurdly little simple disks I made for the crossheads.  They were SUPPOSED to be 9/16” diameter, but I made them 5/8”.  I used 5/8” rod and forgot to shave it down to the required 9/16”.  That’ll be hard to do at this point.   

Anyway, so, the first thing I did this morning was to re-make those simple pieces. But THIS time I remembered to take them down to 9/16” before I cut them off.  I also realized that it would be a ton easier to drill the center holes on the lathe, so I did that too, prior to part removal.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/102a-CrossheadsAndPins-1-DSC_8978.jpg)

THIS is what that final picture yesterday should have looked like.  I used my grooving insert tool to cut off the disks this time – it makes a MUCH cleaner cutoff than my big fat (probably not very sharp) cut-off tool.  So clean, in fact, that I couldn’t tell which side was the nicely faced side and which was the cutoff side.  So I scratched an ‘O’ on one face (the ‘outside’ face) to help me remember :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/102a-CrossheadsAndPins-2-DSC_8981.jpg)

Now I need the 9/16” end mill which hasn’t arrived (didn’t expect it to).

So, I’m going to work on some other little pieces needed for the crosshead assembly, namely the crosshead pins.

Chapter 15.5 – Crosshead Pins

These are a fairly simple turning exercise made from 1/4" 12L14 round stock.  Here I’ve cut the basic shape and just completed putting the 8-36 threads on the end of the pin, just before cutting it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/102a-CrossheadsAndPins-3-DSC_8984.jpg)

And here are the completed set of Crosshead Pins.  Cute, aren’t they? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/102a-CrossheadsAndPins-4-DSC_8987.jpg)

I’ll probably move on to the crosshead slippers next unless the 9/16” end mill arrives. Then I’ll do the actual crosshead itself. That’s the part that will require all the work in this sub-assembly.

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on September 22, 2021, 12:23:35 AM
YUP>..sometimes I sit and stare at the part and go hmmmmm  which side did I part....LOL    I'll get my scribe out next time

What kind of lathe do you have Kim?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2021, 05:51:48 AM
What kind of lathe do you have Kim?

I've got a Grizzly G709 - it's a good-sized import lathe.  It's my 'new' lathe. I got it new about 8 years ago (2013) so I guess it's not really that new anymore.  It replaced my Taig lathe (which I just gave to my brother following my garage clean out).

I really like the lathe.  I'm sure it's nowhere near as nice as some of the old iron people have but I'm quite happy with it.  I've had almost no issues with it and have received good support from Grizzly for the one part that I broke.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2021, 10:57:23 PM
Chapter 15.6 – Slippers

Another little piece that we need for the crossheads are the Slippers.  These are essentially the linear bearings for the crossheads.

Kozo specifies phosphor bronze for the slippers but I used brass instead.  I assume that the bronze would wear better, but I couldn’t source any sheet bronze at a reasonable price and I already had the 0.040” sheet brass, so I just chose to use that.  If these become an issue I can always make bronze slippers to replace them.  But with how much runtime I anticipate this engine to have, I seriously doubt we’ll see any wear! :)

I had a small scrap of the 0.040” brass sheet so I just cleaned up the edges on that then used a slitting saw to slice off a couple of ~1/4” wide pieces.  I used the slitting saw because this small piece would be really hard (if not impossible) to hold in the horizontal saw’s vise.  And it was really easy in the mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-1-DSC_8990.jpg)

Trimming it to the actual required width (0.235” I believe).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-2-DSC_8992.jpg)

Then I sliced off 4 1” lengths on the scroll saw:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-3-DSC_8995.jpg)

And squared up the ends and trimmed them to exact length in the mill (15/16”).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-4-DSC_8996.jpg)

The final op was to drill and countersink holes for the 0-80 mounting screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-5-DSC_9000.jpg)

And there you have it, four slippers for the crossheads:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/103a-Slippers-6-DSC_9003.jpg)

And that was what I accomplished today!

Thanks for checking in on me.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 23, 2021, 12:21:07 PM
On my build some of the most finicky work was getting the crosshead/slippers/guides/yoke to work smoothly together.  Your next parts on pages 98-100 need to be made very precisely. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2021, 06:56:52 PM
On my build some of the most finicky work was getting the crosshead/slippers/guides/yoke to work smoothly together.  Your next parts on pages 98-100 need to be made very precisely. 

Thanks Kvom,
You're right, they will require extra special carefulness. But I'm actually really looking forward to the crosshead guides! Somehow getting those on there will make the mechanism all start to come together.  I've had those rods hanging there at the side of the chassis for months now.  But once I get the crossheads & guides on there, they'll have a place to go.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 23, 2021, 11:00:28 PM
More pieces to the puzzle added Kim. Always nice work……..did I say …..I………….likeeeeeee….. :Love:




 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2021, 11:04:18 PM
Thank you Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2021, 11:13:20 PM
I’m coming up on another silver soldering operation so I decided it was time to mix up my new Citric Acid based pickle solution.  I decided to start with a ~60g per gallon solution – that turns out to be 1/4 cup of dry citric acid crystal/powder.  I weighed it out and a Tablespoon is about 15 grams.  So 4 Tablespoons, which is 1/4 cup, (don’t try and tell me you don’t love these English units!) came out to be ~60g.  That seemed reasonable with what I’ve heard others using.  If I want it stronger I can add more later.  The citric acid powder seemed to dissolve well into the room temp water, so that seems good.

You can see the 5 lb bag of Citric Acid on the welding table, and the big red Rubbermaid tub that I’m using for the pickle bath sitting on the floor (do not be confused by the red Coleman cooler that is sitting in the "to go" pile).  I put about 7 gallons of water in it so I’ve got quite a good-sized bath.  Should be plenty big enough for the boiler, which was my goal.  But the boiler is still some ways away yet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9005.jpg)
All the stuff in the background sitting on and in front of the table saw is garage clean-up piles that are still in the process of moving out.  Hopefully, I’ll have my whole shop back soon!

OK, now, back to the Crossheads!  The 9/16” end mill came in yesterday so I’m all set to make more progress on this part.

I took the little steel chunk and drilled two holes for 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9008.jpg)

Then using a 7/16” mill I made holes 0.260” deep (that’s just over 2/3s of the way through the part).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9011.jpg)

Here’s where the 9/16” mill comes in. Using that magical new end mill I cut 9/16” holes 0.130” deep (that’s 1/3 of the way through).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9014.jpg)

With that done, I connected the 7/16” holes with 7/16” slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9020.jpg)

And then finally tapped the remaining holes 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-6-DSC_9022.jpg)

This block will have the two previously cut 9/16” disks soldered into the 9/16" holes.  Then the part will be cut in half and that will be the basis for the two crossheads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-7-DSC_9028.jpg)

Here’s a shot with the disks in place.  You can also see what the crossheads will look like when completed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104a-CrossheadsContinued-8-DSC_9026.jpg)

But the soldering will be tomorrow’s job. This is where I call it a day.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 24, 2021, 01:04:18 AM
I'm confused on that crosshead part - don't see how you get from that to what the picture shows.   :headscratch:    :noidea:
Guess I'll have to tune in to the next couple posts and see!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 24, 2021, 03:20:01 AM
Chris- I think Kozo planned "dueling crossheads"  :Lol: the open sides face each other and the piston rod ends face outward at each end. My theory, anyway!  :cheers:

Looks like a two  :DrinkPint: job to make that.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2021, 04:05:06 AM
Yes, exactly as CNR said - they are facing each other.  And even after they are cut apart there's still a lot of shaping to go.  That 7/16" slot that went down 2/3's of the way will be the slot that the connecting rod fits into.  Hopefully, it will become more clear as the crossheads emerge.

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 24, 2021, 04:26:44 AM
Guess I'll understand it when I see it come together - seems like a longer way to go than to just mill it out of a single piece, but I'm sure Kozo has a reason for it, he is always very good at working out procedures!  You got me hooked to come back and keep watching!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 24, 2021, 11:30:25 AM
I had to think about it too - but CNR's comment helped quite a bit.

So will you mill the slots in the top and bottom (that are the long thin sides right now), before you cut the two appart ?
I'm even thinking about doing it before soldering - but that is probably a bad idea, as it might warp more when soldering ....  :thinking:

I really enjoy following your build Kim - but there are so many commenting, that adding more might be fluf ....

 :cheers:      Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2021, 07:00:09 PM
Thanks Per!  I do appreciate the comments :)  And what's a little fluff amongst friends?  You can NEVER have too much fluff!  :Lol:

Yeah, I thought about cutting the grooves in the top and bottom before cutting them apart.  That might have been my first thought, but it isn't the order Kozo does it in.  He does that last.  And after more thought, there is a step where I need to mount the separated parts in the 4-jaw chuck in the lathe.  That will be easier to do if I don't cut the grooves first, so I'll probably go ahead with Kozo's suggested order on that.

I'm about to go out and do some work on those parts today - we'll see how far I get :)

Thanks for your comment Per!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2021, 11:21:49 PM
The first mission today was to silver solder the crosshead parts as shown yesterday.  So I cleaned them up, added a few center pings to provide a little space between parts, added flux, and used little brass 3-48 screws to hold the disks in place.  Unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture of my silver solder offering before I burnt it to a crisp.  In fact, I did it three times!  Somehow, I thought I could do both disks in one heating.  Wrong.  By the time I got to the 2nd side, the flux had all disappeared. I used the white flux and I should have used the black.  That was a mistake.  Would I have been able to do it in one heating?  Maybe, or maybe not.  But it couldn’t have hurt.  Also, it was very hard to heat from behind because there was a big air gap between the back of the part and the disk.  So I had to do some heating from the front. This really zapped the flux too.

Anyway, I got one side done then I cleaned it up and did the other side, and tossed it in the pickle bucket.  Oops – I didn’t wait for it to cool and I heard it sizzle as it hit the water – and I realized I may have just hardened the part being as it’s all-steel (not an issue if it were brass).  So I fished it out of the bucket and heated it up to red hot yet again.  This time, I let it cool before I soaked it in the citric acid.

So, that was my exciting time with silver soldering today.  Sorry, I was so engrossed in my mess that I forgot to take pictures.  But it was truly ugly.  Nobody would want to see THAT!  I’d even melted the brass screw heads :(

After that excitement, I milled off the heads of the screws and took the whole thing down to 0.360”.  And it looked much better after that:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104b-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9029.jpg)

Next over to the bandsaw to cut it in half:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104b-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9033.jpg)

And here’s the state of play at the end of shop time today.  Two nascent crossheads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104b-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9036.jpg)

By the way, for anyone interested, I feel that the citric acid bath did a very respectable job of cleaning up the part – it ate away a lot of flux and really helped the part immensely.  I’ll try to get some pictures going forward.  I just completely spaced on that this time.

Thanks for looking in on my incremental progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 25, 2021, 12:29:34 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 25, 2021, 12:50:49 AM
Nice job, Kim.
Assuming that's mild steel, you needn't worry about quenching it. It doesn't have the carbon content to harden.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 25, 2021, 05:45:58 AM
Thanks CNR and Ron!

Assuming that's mild steel, you needn't worry about quenching it. It doesn't have the carbon content to harden.

It was 1018, which I thought was considered carbon steel?  Now that I look it up I see it is a mild, low-carbon steel.  So, what I'm learning is that 1018 won't quench harden because it doesn't have enough carbon? That's pretty cool to know.  I knew it wasn't tool steel (like w-1 or o-1) but didn't realize I didn't have to worry about it hardening.

Thanks Ron!  I learn something from you guys EVERY DAY! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on September 25, 2021, 07:48:41 AM
which quenching the mild steel its more a matter of distortion and worst getting splashed of spat at by hot spots of water .
john
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 25, 2021, 05:25:30 PM
which quenching the mild steel its more a matter of distortion and worst getting splashed of spat at by hot spots of water.
john
Luckily, I didn't seem to have gotten much distortion.  So that's good! :)
Nor did I get splashed! But yeah, I can see that being an issue to watch!
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 26, 2021, 11:42:09 PM
Next step on the crossheads is to drill a few holes.  The center hole is the datum used to define everything else for the crossheads.  I located that, drilled, reamed and counter sunk that hole, then drilled a couple of smaller holes that will help define the shape of the crosshead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9038.jpg)

With the center hole defined, I cut the front side of the crosshead to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9040.jpg)

Then flipped it around and did the back end – all in relation to the center hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9041.jpg)

More shaping: using a 1/8” end mill I cut some slots on each end at an 8o angle.  Here’s the first one.  I did this on the opposite side of the same end too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9044.jpg)

Then I flipped the part over and did essentially the same thing (not quite as deep) to the other end, both sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9050.jpg)

And that is where the crossheads sit today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104c-CrossheadsContinued-6-DSC_9054.jpg)

There’s a lot of ops in these little parts, but they are really neat looking.  They may not be the most prominent feature on the engine, but I feel they really help bring out the steam engine look!

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on September 27, 2021, 12:14:55 AM
Looking good so far Kim. I was looking at the cross head castings on my Tich which look like they'll be "interesting"

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 27, 2021, 12:20:17 AM
Okay, now I'm seeing where this sequence is going. Clever.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2021, 05:51:51 AM
Looking good so far Kim. I was looking at the cross head castings on my Tich which look like they'll be "interesting"

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Yes!  I saw you've been able to get back to your Tich build, which is great!  I'm looking forward to seeing your crossheads and other progress! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2021, 05:55:10 AM
Okay, now I'm seeing where this sequence is going. Clever.

Yeah, wish I could claim any process brilliance here, but I'm just following Kozo's well-documented build.  I have made a few minor changes here and there (like the drivers, for instance!) but mostly, I'm just learning a ton from following his process outlines.

But you know Kozo's books.  Very good drawings and very good explanations.
Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2021, 11:35:10 PM
I’ll be moving forward a bit more slowly for a while here.  My father just passed away and I’ve been spending time with my mother and family helping with arrangements there.  But I did have some time in the shop today (very therapeutic) and made a little progress.

I’m going to round the ends of the crossheads that connect to the piston rod using the lathe.  But to make it easier to center on the lathe, I used the mill to find and mark the center.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9058.jpg)

Then moved this to the lathe and centered in the 4-jaw using that mark.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9063.jpg)

I spent considerable time carving a narrow round end tool to use for this operation.  There's not a lot of space between the inner boss and the outer protrusions.
 Anyway, I got it done and it seems to have worked!  You can see my fancy tool here and you can also see that it has successfully been used to round off that boss.  Kozo specifies 5/16” diameter for this, but I took it down just a bit farther since at 5/16” still had some mill marks from cutting those grooves.  It ended up about 10 thou under (0.302”) to get a nice clean look on the boss.  I felt that was a much better look than having it exact size but with a little divot showing.  Looks much better and nobody will even know about the slightly reduced diameter!  (sh… don’t tell anyone!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9066.jpg)

I also took the outer ends down 1/32”, as shown in the plans.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9073.jpg)

And drilled and tapped 8-36 to receive the piston rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9068.jpg)

Here is where we are with the crossheads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104d-CrossheadsContinued-6-DSC_9076.jpg)

I still have some shaping to do on both ends, and of course, cutting the grooves for the slippers.  But I’m making progress.

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on September 28, 2021, 11:39:33 PM
Sorry to hear about your news Kim, thoughts with you and family

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 28, 2021, 11:52:46 PM
Hi Kim

I'm still here quietly following along and you continue to make great progress.
I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your father, my condolences to you and your family.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 28, 2021, 11:53:16 PM
Kim, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 29, 2021, 12:17:56 AM
Sorry to hear about your Father, Kim, my condolences to you and your family. Take care.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on September 29, 2021, 01:53:45 AM
My condolences to you and your family Kim.    Shop time is very therapeutic.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on September 29, 2021, 02:04:37 AM
Sorry to hear that news Kim, all the best to you and yours.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 29, 2021, 05:10:30 AM
Kim my condolences to you and your family on your loss. Loss my dad when I was 19 wishing you the best buddy….


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2021, 06:10:38 AM
Thank you all for the kind thoughts for me and my family.  I truly appreciate it.  It is certainly a difficult time.  One of those sad blessings. It has not been easy on my Mom nor was my Dad enjoying much over the last bit. But that doesn't make it easy.  Just one of those hard things every family has to go through.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, they are appreciated.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2021, 11:27:34 PM
Today I decided to make the radius cut on the crossheads.  Kozo shows to do this with a pivot pin and a wrench to hold the part.  I’m sure that would work, but it looks a little scary to me.  I chose to do it with the rotary table.

So, I hefted the RT up on the mill table and centered it up using a coaxial indicator (fun little gadget!)  then centered one of the crossheads on the RT using a gauge pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104e-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9080.jpg)

This was great until I tried to approach the part with my short little 1/8” end mill.  The hold-down stuck up too high and I couldn’t get the business end of the mill down to where it needed to go.

So I spent a while trying to come up with a longer 1/8" bit (which I didn’t have) or a shorter way to hold it, which I figured out.  The brass is just a piece of scrap to protect the hole plate underneath. And since the crosshead piece is short and didn’t stick under my hold-down clamp quite halfway, I put the second crosshead piece on the other side of the hold-down. This helped keep the clamping force where I wanted it.  This worked well and was a much shorter clamping method.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104e-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9083.jpg)

With that sorted I milled off the little tab, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104e-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9085.jpg)

Then completed the radius cut through both sides of the crosshead and brought the radius up flush with the little sticky-out bits (the parts that will hold the slippers).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104e-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9088.jpg)

My traditional crosshead closing shot showing where we are now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104e-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9091.jpg)

Thanks for checking in on me today!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 30, 2021, 12:29:37 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: top notch work Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2021, 05:41:47 AM
Thanks Cnr, I'm slowly getting there :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2021, 11:27:30 PM
The next operation on the crosshead was to complete the shaping on the piston rod end.  To do this, following Kozo’s instructions exactly, I place the crosshead at 45o and used a 1/8” end mill to take a little divot out of the edge.  I did this on the top and bottom, both sides, for both crossheads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9094.jpg)

This next picture severs two purposes; first, it shows off the just-completed shaping on the piston rod end, and second, it shows how I’m going to cut the groove that will slide on the crosshead guide and that the slipper will fit in.

The idea here is to connect the crosshead to the piston rod then use the piston rod to set the center for the part.  I will cut a grove on the top side of the crosshead then flip the part over and cut another groove - the exact same depth – on the other side.  That guarantees that the piston rod will be in the exact center of the crosshead when held by the guides.  Pretty ingenious, this Kozo fellow!  (Yeah, this is his idea, not mine. Are you shocked?  I thought so! :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9096.jpg)

Here I’ve cut the groove on one side.  I’m using a 3/16” mill.  My plan is to cut in the exact center, both sides, measure, then take another cut, both sides.  When I get the correct depth, then I’ll move a little to the left, and a little to the right to clean up the grooves to the final intended width of 0.240”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9097.jpg)

Here’s my measuring method.  I need the bottom of the two groves to be 0.703” apart.  However, the anvil on my mic is 1/4" in diameter and won’t fit in the 0.240” slot (not to mention the 3/16” slot that I’m currently measuring).  So, my solution to this is to use some tiny 9/64” parallels that came in some little parallel set I picked up at some time.  They work just perfectly for this kind of thing.  So the opening I’m looking for here will be 0.703”+9/32”  (that would be TWO of the 9/64” parallels).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9102.jpg)

Here is where disaster struck. :o  That is to say, I struck… since clearly, my middle name is a disaster! :(  After my second cut on both sides I measured and I was already 0.030” too deep!  My heart skipped a beat here… I really don’t want to re-do the part – there’s so much work in it already.

I considered just making thicker slippers – that could work.  Or possibly shimming them.  But then, what do I do with the other crosshead?  Do I do it like this one so things are symmetrical?  Or do I just keep them left and right? (which I would likely do anyway). But somehow, that bothers me.

So, what I decided to do was to fill those groves and try again.  But next time, more carefully!

So, I found a piece of 3/16”x1/4” 1018 bar and cut a short piece in half with a hack saw.  It doesn’t matter how rough the top side is – I’m going to be milling most of it away anyway.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9105.jpg)

And here it is, post silver soldering.  I meant to take a photo but forgot.  So you get a nice shot of it sitting in the citric acid bath.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-6-DSC_9107.jpg)

Here’s a zoomed-out view so you can see my ginormous vat of citric acid sitting under the welding table.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104f-CrossheadsContinued-7-DSC_9108.jpg)

So, HOW did this happen?  I had been pondering that and came up with three ideas – bad mic reading, bad math, chips under the parallel.  But you know what?  As I prepared this post I could see in the shot of the mic that I misread it.  My 1” mic will go a turn or two above the 1” mark and I was so sure that I was above an inch, when I read the mic, I clearly saw what I wanted to and interpreted that as ~1.020”.  But really, it says 0.985”!  It's not often you get forensic evidence like this to show where you went wrong.  But this time, I did.  I misread the mic. :(

Anyway, I see how it happened and I promise to actually read the mic next time, not just see what I expect (he says after the fact).  We’ll give’er another go tomorrow!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 30, 2021, 11:57:55 PM
Nice work Kim-ozo!  Good recovery on the one slip, we've all been there!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gadabout on October 01, 2021, 01:50:07 AM
I read .995” 😁
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2021, 05:29:47 AM
I read .995” 😁
:facepalm:
Boy, it was a good thing I quit when I did!  I read it wrong a second time!  :-\

Yes, it definitely says 0.995".  Whew...

Tomorrow, I'll do better!  :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Flyboy Jim on October 01, 2021, 02:47:23 PM
Good recovery Kim.

I liked your method of measuring the width of the part in the grooves. I probably would of used that as a perfect excuse for buying a blade micrometer.  :Lol:

Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2021, 11:43:57 PM
Thanks Jim!  Nice to know you're following along still :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2021, 11:50:02 PM
Here’s what the crosshead looked like after fishing it out of the pickle.  Not bad – I seemed to get good solder penetration on all the joints, so I was pleased.  Yeah, I probably didn’t need to use quite so much solder, but in the heat of the moment (pun intended) I always feel like – “add a little more solder NOW -  if you want to do it later, you’ll have to heat the part all over again!”  So I tend to err on the side of too much.  As you can clearly see.
You can also see that the plugs stick out too far in front and in back.   
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-1-DSC_9110.jpg)

I don’t care about the height issue – I’ll be milling all of that off anyway.  But I did a quick skim of the edges in the mill to get things back to even:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-2-DSC_9114.jpg)

My previous post showed my method for creating the grooves in the crosshead so I won’t go into that again.  Yes, I did it wrong, but my description was pretty accurate! (I think?  :headscratch:)

After getting the right depth (as described yesterday) I then shaved out the edges some till I got the desired 0.240” width.  I used gauge pins to see where I was and to make sure it was the desired width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-3-DSC_9116.jpg)

After I had all the grooves, it was time to drill 0-80 holes to hold the slippers.  Two on each side of each crosshead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-4-DSC_9119.jpg)

And now tap them (using my favorite tap handle 😊).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-5-DSC_9121.jpg)

The final operation on the crossheads is to drill & tap a couple of mounting holes for a bracket that ties into the valve gear.  The little marks just above the holes are to help me know which side to drill. THIS is the defining step that makes the crossheads left and right-handed.  These bracket mounting holes are only on the outside.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-6-DSC_9125.jpg)

And just for old-time sake, here's a shot of the completed crossheads:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-7-DSC_9127.jpg)

With the crossheads completed, I was able to assemble all the parts – slippers, crossheads, and pistons into the full crosshead assembly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/104g-CrossheadsContinued-8-DSC_9130.jpg)

Up next will be the crosshead guides & yoke.  As Kvom said a few posts back, the challenge to it will be getting everything to slide and work smoothly together.  But it’s a challenge I’m quite looking forward to!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 01, 2021, 11:55:53 PM
Very nice parts! Well worth the extra go-round.
 :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 02, 2021, 12:14:59 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 02, 2021, 05:03:11 AM
Awesome results…..  :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 02, 2021, 06:10:58 AM
Thank you Chris, Cnr, and Don!
Yes, I'm pretty pleased with that recovery!
Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 02, 2021, 07:56:27 AM
Good rescue  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: I'm still following in the background and enjoying  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 02, 2021, 04:38:39 PM
Thank you Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on October 03, 2021, 12:23:28 AM
Looking good Kim!  Still following and enjoying :ThumbsUp:

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on October 03, 2021, 10:01:53 AM
Hi Kim,
Great progress!
You’ll be pleased to get those behind you.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 03, 2021, 11:22:53 PM
Thank you Joe and Kerrin!  I most certainly am happy to have them completed! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 03, 2021, 11:25:53 PM
Chapter 15.7 – Assembly

This is the final post for the Pistons and Crossheads – it’s where we make it all come together :)

Putting the piston rods and crossheads in took some work.  I had to do a little disassembly first.  I had to take off the front cylinder heads to get the pistons & rods in place, and I had to remove the front bumper to get at them.  Then it took a while to figure out how to get the crosshead pin in place with the connecting rod (which is the whole point, right?)  Anyway, I eventually wrangled it all in place then set the piston to ~1/8” from the front of the cylinder with it at top dead center, then tightened down the lock nut on the crosshead.  That’s where the screw slot on the piston rod came in super handy!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/105a-CrossheadAssembly-1-DSC_9134.jpg)

And after a little fiddling, I got this!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/105a-CrossheadAssembly-2-DSC_9136.jpg)

I took a video of it to show the wheels going round and the pistons going in and out  :cartwheel:  There’s a bit of a snort where the piston rods rub some, but that gets better when you hold the rods centered, so I’m expecting that to go away once I get the crosshead guides in place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKyF7MGz_0

Thanks for taking a look at my exciting achievement!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 03, 2021, 11:27:25 PM
Fantasic!  Better chain it down overnight or the shop elves will take it out for a spin soon.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 03, 2021, 11:49:08 PM
WooHoo! That's an important milestone, well done Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2021, 12:05:12 AM
Thanks Chris and Ron!  :cheers:

I'll be sure to keep an eye on the shop elves!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 04, 2021, 12:09:22 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

"She Rolls!" as Mr Royce said.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2021, 12:16:52 AM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 04, 2021, 12:34:39 AM
Very nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2021, 05:24:02 AM
Thanks Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 04, 2021, 06:48:22 AM
Did you have the piston rings on when you did the assembly?  With cast iron rings I needed to make the tool to compress them while inserting.

That assembly is a lot easier with the cylinder off the frame.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cwelkie on October 04, 2021, 02:17:44 PM
A major milestone Kim! Time for a celebration.
As an aside, I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to track the number of times we put things together only to take 'em apart again before we're "finished"  :)
Charlei
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 04, 2021, 02:57:53 PM
Quote
As an aside, I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to track the number of times we put things together only to take 'em apart again before we're "finished" 
Certainly not me. I can't count that high. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2021, 06:40:50 PM
Did you have the piston rings on when you did the assembly?  With cast iron rings I needed to make the tool to compress them while inserting.
Hi Kvom,
I'm planning on using graphite impregnated string rather than a CI ring. But no, I don't have the string in there yet.

That assembly is a lot easier with the cylinder off the frame.
Good point!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 04, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Go progress Kim ……. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
Quote
As an aside, I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to track the number of times we put things together only to take 'em apart again before we're "finished" 
Certainly not me. I can't count that high. :headscratch:
Interesting question, Charlie!
I've never kept track and would probably NOT want to know the number before I started a project.  It would be too scary!  :o
Thanks Don! :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 05, 2021, 11:33:19 PM
The next area I’ll be focusing on is the Guide Yokes.  These will hold one end of the crosshead guides plus a lot of other parts and brackets for the valve gear.  So, as Kvom mentioned earlier, their accuracy is key.

Chapter 16.1 – Tie Plate

The yoke is made up of three pieces; a tie plate and two guide yokes.  The tie plate, as the name implies, ties the two guide yokes together and holds them in place.  The guide yokes do the business of holding the crosshead guides and all the other brackets I referred to.

So, I started by cutting some chunks of 1/8” plate steel to use for the three pieces:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/106a-GuideYoke-1-DSC_9141.jpg)

And here they are in the general orientation of their final positions - the one across the top is the tie plate, and the two on the sides will be the guide yokes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/106a-GuideYoke-2-DSC_9144.jpg)

Not a huge amount of progress today.  I spent most of the time sketching and thinking about how I was going to make these parts. But I think I’ve got a good high-level flow.  We’ll see how it goes.  I usually have to change things partway through, but at least I have a direction to start.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on October 06, 2021, 02:42:05 AM
Theres a lot going on with those parts Kim..   Keep at it buddy!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2021, 11:24:31 PM
Thanks Dave!
I don't make a lot of progress on any given day, but like you said - as long as I keep at it, I'll get there someday! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2021, 11:26:05 PM
After cutting the tie plate from the full sheet I squared up all the sizes on the mill:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107a-TiePlate-1-DSC_9146.jpg)

Next, I cut two 1/4" notches in the appropriate place on the long end for the mounting feet.  These are 7/64” deep (not quite 1/8”).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107a-TiePlate-2-DSC_9156.jpg)

Now, what I didn’t show was drilling and tapping a 1-72 threaded hole in the center of these notches to hold the foot in place while soldering.  But I really did do it :)

For the feet, I used short lengths of 1/8”x1/4” 1018 CRS bar and drilled 1-72 clearance holes in the middle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107a-TiePlate-3-DSC_9157.jpg)

After fluxing it up and using a couple of brass 1-72 screws to hold things together, I did the silver soldering ritual.  It came out pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107a-TiePlate-4-DSC_9166.jpg)

And right now it’s having a luxurious soak in the pickle bath.

That’s today’s progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on October 09, 2021, 12:35:13 PM
Hi Kim, I am quietly following along and I enjoy every progress and every new part popping up.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 09, 2021, 01:40:32 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 09, 2021, 05:45:29 PM
Thank you for following along Achim and CNR,
I really appreciate people watching to make sure I'm not doing anything too boneheaded!  :D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 09, 2021, 11:55:39 PM
Here’s the tie plate after some clean-up.  You can see that the feet stand a little proud (1/64”) of the bottom of the tie plate.  That will come off here soon.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-1-DSC_9169.jpg)

But first, I drilled the 3-48 mounting holes to mound the tie plate to the chassis.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-2-DSC_9171.jpg)

After this, I shaved down the feet and took a very light skim off of the bottom just to make sure things were completely even.  I also took this opportunity to shave the feet down to size (I’d left the length a little oversize before).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-3-DSC_9178.jpg)

Next we have to cut a very small relief angle in the bottom of the plate in two places. Kozo specifies 55o, though I doubt the angle is really that critical.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-4-DSC_9182.jpg)

Because it’s just to make sure the tie plate clears the rims of the drivers.  It’s important to clear the drivers for sure!  But I’m not convinced that the 55o angle is super important to that! :)  Here’s a shot to show you what that little clearance cut was for (see the little tiny notches right over the rim of the front drivers? - that's what I just cut.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-5-DSC_9185.jpg)

Now I need to drill the holes to connect the yoke guides (3 on each side):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-6-DSC_9189.jpg)

And tape them 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-7-DSC_9192.jpg)

The final op for this piece is to take the curve out so that it nests with the boiler well.  I know you could just hacksaw and file this out, but I want to do it on the rotary table.  To do this, I drilled a couple of holes in the piece that will be removed.  These are tight clearance for 10-32 screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-8-DSC_9195.jpg)

And finally, I drilled some matching 10-32 tapped holes in a piece of aluminum that I use for a rotary table jig.  It already has some nicely placed 1/4" holes in it.  So I used one of those holes, and measured out with the DRO, and placed my holes.  Unfortunately, I did my calculations wrong.  This should make a 1.875” radius arc, instead, I’m getting a 1 3/4” arc.  But after being frustrated with myself for a bit, I’ve now figured out that I can use this anyway. All I need to do is shift the jig over 1/8” on the RT before I start. And I should be golden.  The locator hole doesn’t really have to be at the center – that was my original intent, but my poor math prevented that from coming true.  But it shouldn’t matter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107b-TiePlate-9-DSC_9198.jpg)

Anyway, we’ll see if my jig-save works tomorrow.  I’m done for today.

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 10, 2021, 07:01:17 AM
You'll need to attach "feet" to the yokes as well.  Make these oversize so that you can adjust their thickness to get the attached guide bars horizontal and parallel.  Once the bars are good the crosshead fit can be adjusted by the slippers.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 10, 2021, 10:05:42 AM
It all goes round and goes along  :whoohoo:  :praise2:  :wine1:

The first big step  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2021, 06:09:41 PM
Yes!  Quite exciting for sure!  Thanks Roger  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2021, 06:12:47 PM
You'll need to attach "feet" to the yokes as well.  Make these oversize so that you can adjust their thickness to get the attached guide bars horizontal and parallel.  Once the bars are good the crosshead fit can be adjusted by the slippers.

Thanks for the warnings, Kvom.  I appreciate the insights from someone who's been through this before!

I have been thinking of how to do the yokes to keep things all parallel and aligned.  With your input, I think I have a pretty good plan. (Famous Last Words!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2021, 11:08:35 PM
Well, I ended up re-doing my jig.  While I might have been able to just slide the jig 1/8” from the center of the RT it would have had to have been slid in a straight line – parallel to my direction of offset.  And I had no way to guarantee that other than eyeball.  And if it was off from the offset axis then my arc would be off-center.  I didn’t want to chance that.  The cost to drill & tap a few new holes was very small too :)

With that done, I centered up the rotary table with the coaxial indicator (cool tool alert!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107c-TiePlate-1-DSC_9201.jpg)

Then centered the jig on the center hole using a 1/4" gauge pin.  While the jig was held on center with the gauge pin I clamped things down with a bunch of hold-downs.  Then spent 45 minutes re-arranging them and swapping them out for shorter ones in order to find a way that I could get the mill to cover the entire sweep of the arc.

Once I finally had that, I used 1/4" drill to chain drill around the edge of the arc.  I moved it in 0.020” from the final dimension and will clean up that last 20 thou with the end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107c-TiePlate-2-DSC_9205.jpg)

Then moving to a 1/4" 2 flute end mill I proceeded to complete the arc.  Then I widened the arc those last 0.020”, with the final pass being a few thou climb mill.  It left a really nice surface on the arc.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107c-TiePlate-3-DSC_9207.jpg)

And here’s the final tie plate.  I’m pleased with this!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/107c-TiePlate-4-DSC_9211.jpg)

Now onward and upward to the guide yokes themselves.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 10, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
Very nice boat cradle. I mean tie plate!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2021, 11:32:25 PM
Very nice boat cradle. I mean tie plate!
Hey, it does look like that, doesn't it?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on October 10, 2021, 11:49:07 PM
His prints have always entranced me.    They are so nice, and clear and well presented!

That saddle looks awesome Kim....even if its only for a boat...... 8)



jk


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 11, 2021, 02:19:16 AM
Nicely done Kim.  Parts like that always look easy at first.  Then reality sets in.


-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 11, 2021, 04:08:33 AM
Thanks Dave and Bob! 

Dave, I have made a few model ships and have some cradles that really were for ships.  But you've made the REAL THING!  I'll bet you had bigger versions of that cradle for your boat!  :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 11, 2021, 02:37:28 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2021, 11:58:10 PM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2021, 12:09:28 AM
Chapter 16.2 – Guide Yokes

The next part is the Guide Yokes themselves.  There are two of these – a left-hand and a right-hand version, one for either side of the tie plate.

A few episodes back I cut the guide yokes from the same 1/8” sheet of steel as the tie plate.  But they are still rough cut, right off the bandsaw.

I took them and double sticky taped them together.  I use this SpecTape double-sided tape.  It works really well to hold parts together.  I find it better and easier to use than CA glue or Loctite for this kind of thing.  It cuts easy, goes on well, and holds quite well.  I’ve never had an issue with parts staying together using it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-01-DSC_9149.jpg)

With the pieces together like this, I squared them up and took the width to exactly 1.5”.  The length is nice and square, but it is less important.  I just wanted to make sure it was ‘long enough’.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-02-DSC_9153.jpg)

Then I spent a full shop session figuring the exact locations of all the holes I wanted to make in the guide yokes and checking them twice (and thrice).  I’m using the top edge and the right side as my references.  And I shifted all the features 0.030” down from the top so that I have a little bit to shave off after soldering the extra parts in place (stay tuned for future episodes!)

But for now, I’m going to make all of these features with the two plates together like this.  The left-hand one is on top (with the markings you see) and the right-hand one is on the bottom.  The fronts both face out so that they are mirror images of each other.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-03-DSC_9212.jpg)

Here I’ve drilled all the holes and countersunk the three that require it (but only on the left side – we’ll CSK the right side later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-04-DSC_9215.jpg)

Next, I chain drilled for the slot.  The slot is supposed to be 1/8” wide. But in my experience, if you drill 1/8” wide and use a 1/8” wide mill, you get really ugly looking edges.  So, to fix this I’m chain drilling 3/32”, and will mill it at 3/32”, then at 7/64” and finally at 1/8”.  This tends to give me pretty edges along my slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-05-DSC_9218.jpg)

Here I’ve just completed cutting full depth (1/4” in this case) with a 3/32” 2 flute end mill.  I took this slot slowly.  Only 0.025” per pass, lots of passes, to remove the rest of the material in the slot. But look at the edges of the slot – really ugly.  Not sure why.  It might be because the 3/32” drill wanders and doesn’t cut super clean holes.  Or it could be because the mill bit flexes back and forth as it mills the extra material between the holes.  I’m not sure.  But the multi-stage slot milling here will clean it up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-06-DSC_9222.jpg)

Now, here's after I used the 7/64” end mill.  I did this one in ONE pass, at full depth.  It was only taking off 8 thou per side, so full-depth wasn’t a problem.  You can still see a few marks on the side of the slot, but it is certainly a lot cleaner than the 3/32” pass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-07-DSC_9224.jpg)

And now, finally a single full-depth pass with a 1/8” 2 flute end mill.  The slot looks quite good now, all that roughness and gouges from before are now gone.  I’m happy :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-08-DSC_9226.jpg)

And finally, I flipped the part over (well, the two parts) and used a gauge pin to index on the three holes that need countersinking…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-09-DSC_9227.jpg)

And got the countersinking taken care of for the righthand yoke.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-10-DSC_9229.jpg)

Now, after prying the two pieces apart (I generally pound old box knife razor blades – carefully – between the two parts to get them separated.  It's harder than you think!) I have the two guide yoke plates.  The one on the left is the left-hand version and matches the drawing.  The one on the right is the mirror image of the drawing and is the right-hand version.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108a-GuideYokes-11-DSC_9231.jpg)

Next will be to make the little add-on parts for the yokes and silver solder them in place.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 14, 2021, 12:13:09 AM
Very nice!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 14, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Looking good Kim.

Question/thoughts for you re slot roughing finish- when doing the cut, were your table gibs locked? On my old mill, if I don't lock the gib on the axis that doesn't need to move, I get a slot that looks like I cut it with a Cockshutt 3 bottom plow rather than a mill. Also, if the endmill is held in a collet I get much better results than if I do a light cut with it held in the drill chuck. (yes, sometimes I cheat and do a small slot cut with a endmill in the drill chuck - even though it is a no no and I should know better  ::) )

Your final slot cut looks just fine anyway. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2021, 05:12:56 PM
Thanks Chris & Cnr!

Question/thoughts for you re slot roughing finish- when doing the cut, were your table gibs locked? On my old mill, if I don't lock the gib on the axis that doesn't need to move, I get a slot that looks like I cut it with a Cockshutt 3 bottom plow rather than a mill. Also, if the endmill is held in a collet I get much better results than if I do a light cut with it held in the drill chuck. (yes, sometimes I cheat and do a small slot cut with a endmill in the drill chuck - even though it is a no no and I should know better  ::) )

Your final slot cut looks just fine anyway. :cheers:

Good advice, CNR!
In this case, the Z and Y axes were locked (the X is the one I was moving to make the slot).  And I was using a collet for holding the end mill.  I always (well, always like you always apparently :) - meaning everyone in a while, for a light cut I've been known to use the drill chuck if it was already in place. But as you said, I know it's not ideal so I generally don't do that  :embarrassed:).

I've been thinking about it more and I'm leaning toward it being flexing of the small 3/32" mill as the forces change as it cuts through the bits between the chain drilled holes.  The side gouges seem to line up with those places. 

If I cut the entire depth in one pass, I'd likely get less flexing at the tip of the 3/32" mill.  But I worry that a 1/4" deep pass would be too much for a dinky mill like that and I'd break it. (I've done that before and it's not as fun as it sounds  :-\)  So I only take a little each pass (only 25 thou).  And that seems to correlate to the strata of the gouges too. They go in stripes all the way down the sides. In that picture I show, you only see the first row of gouge marks.  But they repeat all the way down the side.  Maybe only every 50 thou, meaning when I go one direction it makes marks on one side, and the other direction makes marks on the other?

But as I said, I don't really know. Those are just my guesses.  I got the same on my taig, and I see it using my (much more rigid) Grizzly mill too.  But the 3/32" mill bit didn't change between the two setups.  Maybe that's the problem?  Maybe my 3/32" end mill isn't very sharp?  That's also a possibility.

Anyway, I'm pleased with the end result!

Thanks for your thoughts on this!  I appreciate it. This is how I learn!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2021, 09:46:13 PM
With the main yoke plates drilled and slotted, I need to make the various little add-on doodads for it.  There’s a wider spot along the top of the yoke that will eventually hold up one end of the running boards, and there are the two protrusions that will hold the back end of the crosshead guides.

I started with the simpler one – the running board support.  It only needs to be 1/4” wide, but I chose to make it from 5/16” 1018 CRS because I want to be able to mill down the top so that it is flush and doesn’t have that ridge/divot thing at the joint.  So I cut a couple of short pieces of 1/8”x5/16” CRS and drilled a pair of 1-72 clearance holes to match the ones I made on the top of the yoke plates.  These are for solder holding screws.  The holes are mirror images to match the two yoke plates.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108b-GuideYokes-1-DSC_9235.jpg)

Then I cut 4 little blocks of 1/4" square 12L14 and squared them up so they were all 3/8” long. Next, I drilled a hole in the end for a 1-72 thread – these are to hold them on the yoke plates for soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108b-GuideYokes-2-DSC_9239.jpg)

Next, I rotated them 90o and reamed a 3/32” hole all the way through.  This will eventually be widened to a #3-48 clearance hole for mounting the crosshead guides.  But for the soldering process, it will be used with a 3/32” rod to keep these blocks properly oriented.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108b-GuideYokes-3-DSC_9242.jpg)

Finally, I cut some short chunks of 3/32” stainless steel rod to slide through those 3/32” reamed holes.  Here are all the parts of the guide yokes.  I also put punch pricks on the parts to be soldered to maintain a gap for the solder to flow.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108b-GuideYokes-4-DSC_9245.jpg)

I did a test assembly to make sure it all fit together appropriately, and thankfully, it does :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/108b-GuideYokes-5-DSC_9247.jpg)

Next step will be to take it apart, clean, flux, and solder. But that will be a project for another day.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 15, 2021, 12:40:01 AM
Looking good Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 15, 2021, 12:46:31 AM
Awww the smell of success a loos great Km and a little closer to completing……  :Love:




 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 15, 2021, 05:59:24 AM
Thanks Bob and Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 15, 2021, 07:18:03 AM
As for slotting, I use carbide endmills, and for small slots like  these chain drilling doesn't make sense.  Using a drill chuck for plunging an endmill seems perfectly OK.

When I made the yokes I seem to remember milling out of one plate each.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 15, 2021, 06:42:50 PM
Thanks for the input Kvom.  Just a few questions to help me understand what you're saying:

As for slotting, I use carbide endmills, and for small slots like  these chain drilling doesn't make sense.
Interesting... why is that?   My thinking was that chain drilling reduced the side load on the end mill - which seems especially important for those tiny end mills.  Seems like no chain drilling would lead to much higher sustained side loads. which is how you break them.  Or at least, that's how I break them!  :embarassed:

Using a drill chuck for plunging an endmill seems perfectly OK.
Sure.  But  I thought it wasn't best practice to use end mills in a drill chuck (at least, if you have a choice - I know some small mill/drills ONLY have a drill chuck).  They are held more firmly and with better concentricity in a collet vs drill chuck.  If I'm wrong here, that would be good to know!

When I made the yokes I seem to remember milling out of one plate each.
Not sure what you mean here?  I milled out one plate for each side, I just did them together.  But that might not be what you mean?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 15, 2021, 07:50:39 PM
Hi Kim

A couple things about milling with a drill chuck, they lack rigidity which equals crappy finish on your part. The second most important thing is most drill chucks are mounted on their arbor buy a taper fit, side loads and vibration may cause the drill chuck to fall off the arbor and dance around on top of your part. If you want to mill with a drill chuck it should be modified so that it can't come apart; this would be done by taping a hole in the end of the arbor and adding a socket head cap screw inside the the chuck that pulls it onto the arbor. If there is enough meat in the chuck body it can be counterbored for the cap screw.

Straight on pressure as in drilling doesn't cause a problem, so if you wanted to say, flatten the bottom of a hole or add a counterbore that would be acceptable. 

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 15, 2021, 11:57:58 PM
Ah... Thanks for the explanation, Dave!  Makes a lot of sense.   I think I'm following you there now Kvom.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2021, 12:06:53 AM
Today is silver solder day.  So, I took things apart, cleaned them to get rid of oil and grease, buffed the important parts on the 3M Scotch-Brite wheel, added flux (I used the black flux) and bits of silver solder.  Then it was up to the hearth for it:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-1-DSC_9251.jpg)

Here’s the after-soldering picture.  This is 4130 which is higher carbon steel than 1018.  So, I was sure to let it cool more before tossing in the pickle bath (didn’t want to accidentally harden it!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-2-DSC_9254.jpg)


Chapter 16.3 – Guides

While those parts were soaking in the citric acid I decided to move on with the crosshead guides themselves.  These are very simple parts.  Just a short piece of bar with holes at each end.

I cut them from 1/8” x 1/4" 1018 CRS.  I carefully cut four pieces to just over 3 1/16”.  I try not to cut too much extra because it just gets machined away and wasted.  Unfortunately, the parts need to be 3 3/16” long. Guess I just misread the drawings or misremembered what I read. :embarassed:

Anyway, once I discovered that, I cut some more bar to just over 3 3/16” long (checked, re-checked, and re-re-checked the drawings  :-\).  Then I double sticky taped them together and cut them to length and to thickness.  They need to be 0.235-0.236” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-3-DSC_9256.jpg)

With that done, I promptly separated the parts... then remembered I still needed to drill holes in each end!  Of course, I meant to do that before I separated them.  Ah well. I was able to line them all up in the mill vice to drill them all together.  I pushed them up against a gauge pin to make sure they were all aligned.  Plus, I stuck a chunk of cardboard (the kind on the back of a tablet of paper, not the corrugated kind) between them and the edge of the vice to help make up for any possible slight width difference there might be (since I no longer had the help of the sticky tape).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-4-DSC_9258.jpg)

And drilled 2 holes; 3-48 tapping hole on one side, and a 3-48 clearance hole on the other.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-5-DSC_9259.jpg)

With that, the guides are complete:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-6-DSC_9263.jpg)


After fishing the guide yokes out of the pickle bath and washing them off, they look pretty good.  The black flux seems to leave more of a mark on the parts.  But that’s OK.  I’ll be cleaning them up more as we go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/109a-CrossheadGuides-7-DSC_9266.jpg)

Next will be to finish up the yokes.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 16, 2021, 01:05:28 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 16, 2021, 01:19:03 AM
Great progress, following along...  Got a nice fresh bottle of white popcorn (no kernel shells to get stuck between the teeth)


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2021, 05:34:54 AM
Thanks CNR & Chris!
Got a nice fresh bottle of white popcorn (no kernel shells to get stuck between the teeth)
 :popcorn:

No hulls! That's the best! :)  With butter? (I hope?  ;D)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 16, 2021, 01:12:45 PM
Thanks CNR & Chris!
Got a nice fresh bottle of white popcorn (no kernel shells to get stuck between the teeth)
 :popcorn:

No hulls! That's the best! :)  With butter? (I hope?  ;D )
Kim
Popped in microwave in a silicone popper dish, either dry then with butter added, or popped in a little peanut oil which adds flavor. Tasty!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2021, 12:18:28 AM
Back to the yokes.

First thing I did was to mill the top down to where it should be.  I used the already drilled holes as reference.  These holes were all located with the DRO so I trust their relationship to each other.  If you recall, I’d left 0.030” at the top of the guide plates for this milling operation. I also milled the outside edge even where that added part stuck out and milled off the heads of the soldering screws. Here I’m checking the height of the top compared to one of the already drilled holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110a-GuideYokesCont-1-DSC_9271.jpg)

Next, I notched the brackets that hold the crosshead guides.  I cut the top inside bracket referenced to one of the existing holes (as above) then used an inside mic to set the distance between the two brackets at 1.040”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110a-GuideYokesCont-2-DSC_9272.jpg)

Here’s my reading.  Came out pretty close!  I have to confess, I don’t usually show the mic readings like this because I’m not usually that close and it's embarrassing to show when you’re off by a thou or two.  But I wanted to show this one! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110a-GuideYokesCont-3-DSC_9278.jpg)

And finally, I took off the screw heads on the backside and then milled the notch out of the top of the plate, according to the plan.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110a-GuideYokesCont-4-DSC_9281.jpg)

And here are the two guide yokes up to this point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110a-GuideYokesCont-5-DSC_9282.jpg)

I still have the final shaping to do.  The shaping work is less critical to the operation though. I still want it to look good, however, so will still be doing things in my slow, methodical way.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on October 17, 2021, 02:50:21 AM
Looking good, Kim!  Still following along.  Maybe I should invest in some popcorn....

Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2021, 05:38:59 AM
Thanks Joe!

I hear you should go for the hull-less variety - makes for better eating and less picking hulls out of your teeth!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 17, 2021, 07:40:21 AM
I missed where you drilled the bar supports.

That precise measurement of the spacing if matched by the matching spacing on the cylinders should mean that the bars go on parallel.  Once the yokes and tie plate are assembled to the frame will come the most exciting part since the check on driver quartering.  Smooth travel of the cross heads is the goal.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2021, 07:32:50 PM
I missed where you drilled the bar supports.

I drilled those before they were soldered in place - see post #1324 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242493.html#msg242493 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg242493.html#msg242493))

That precise measurement of the spacing if matched by the matching spacing on the cylinders should mean that the bars go on parallel.  Once the yokes and tie plate are assembled to the frame will come the most exciting part since the check on driver quartering.  Smooth travel of the cross heads is the goal.
Fingers crossed...  (we need a "fingers crossed" emoji! Something like this: (https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/FingersCrossed.JPG))

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 18, 2021, 11:47:41 PM
Moving forward on the guide yokes I trimmed the bottom end to length and thinned the 1/4" square crosshead guide brackets to the same width as the crosshead guides, which is 0.236”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-1-DSC_9288.jpg)

And I have to open up the vertical holes in the crosshead guide brackets to be 3-48 clearance holes.  I used a gauge pin to center on the hole:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-2-DSC_9289.jpg)

Then drilled #38 through both of the brackets.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-3-DSC_9293.jpg)

I had a lot of trouble figuring out how to make the curved pattern on the yokes so I ended up drawing it on paper using a compass, as best I could (Kozo doesn’t really give you clear info on this.  Probably because it isn’t critical.)  Then I cut out the shape and used spray sticky glue to attach the template.  In this picture, the brass screws are holding the two yokes together left & right, back to back, just as before (but without double-sided sticky tape this time :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-4-DSC_9296.jpg)

After I figured out how to hold it in the mill vice, I used a 3/8” roughing mill to remove the bulk of the material for the opening between the guide brackets.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-5-DSC_9300.jpg)

And cleaned up the last bit with a 1/2" 4 flute end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-6-DSC_9303.jpg)

Now for the curvy bits.  I used the belt sander and a bunch of files to finally get the shape put in these parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-7-DSC_9307.jpg)

And after a little cleanup work, here are the two completed guide yokes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-8-DSC_9309.jpg)

Now attached to the tie plate ready for installation on the chassis!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110b-GuideYokesCont-9-DSC_9312.jpg)

Oh, shoot.  I just remembered.  I still have to drill and tap a few holes in the top for the running boards.   So, I’m not as done with these as I thought. Well, it won’t get done today.  But soon!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 19, 2021, 12:12:03 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

all yoking aside they look great!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2021, 12:21:57 AM
Great results!    :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 19, 2021, 12:43:52 AM
Nicely done Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 19, 2021, 01:28:20 AM
 :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2021, 04:58:11 AM
Thanks Cnr, Chris, Dave, and Don!  Appreciate you stopping by for a look  :cheers:

all yoking aside they look great!  :Lol:

Cnr, you better run now, I just saw the pun police go by!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2021, 12:21:15 AM
My goal for today was to finish up the yokes and get them installed.

There were TWO things I had left to do – the first was to mill out a little clearance notch (similar to the one done on the tie plate), and the second was to make the screw holes for the running board.

To make the clearance notch, I put the yoke in the mill vice at a 35o angle and made the cut.  Easy peasy.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-1-DSC_9317.jpg)

Making the screw holes for the running board was a little harder.  I SHOULD have done this before I rounded things off yesterday.  That was my plan, but clearly, I forgot. So… plan B is to mount things in the vice as vertically as I can, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-2-DSC_9320.jpg)

Then drill the mounting holes.  I tapped them 3-48 too, but no pic of that.  But trust me, I really did it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-3-DSC_9321.jpg)

Now the hard part begins; making the crossheads slide well in the crosshead guides.  Kvom warned me that this was an arduous process, and he’s right.  I spent the rest of the day getting this working.  Luckily, I only had a few mishaps.  Unfortunately, I had a few mishaps.

The first thing I learned was that you can’t install the yoke plate when it’s all screwed together.  It won’t get past the rods.  So, I mounted the tie plate to the chassis and went to put on the yokes one at a time.  Unfortunately, you can’t access the bottom screw with the front drivers in place.  So they had to come out.  Luckily, I was able to disassemble the front bearings and swing the wheels out of the way without dismantling everything.

But with the yokes in place, the front wheels lost ALL their movement.  They are supposed to be able to wiggle back and forth a few degrees.  But there was barely any movement at all.  Look at the paper-thin gap between the back edge of the wheel tread and the bottom of the yoke plate.  Not good.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-4-DSC_9324.jpg)

So, back out they came and I filed a little angle across the bottom there.  If I’d known this, I might have done it in my mill set up earlier.  But at this point, I decided a little file work was just fine.  With that done to both sides, I’ve not got several degrees of movement back in the front wheelset.  Yay!  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-5-DSC_9328.jpg)


Now, on to installing the crosshead guides between the yoke and the cylinders.  The guides went in great.  But once I got them installed, things moved very poorly.  The crossheads were super tight and hard to move.

So I spent quite a bit of time fettling things here and there to make them move.  Turns out the main culprit was that I’d left the inside of the groove in the top and bottom of the crossheads freshly machined. Once I took the edge off those groves (all around) they slid quite smoothly back and forth across the guides.

Unfortunately (yeah, another one of those) one of the things I tried early on was to widen the spacing between the guides.  I did this by filing a bit off the upper mount; and thought it was helping. So I did it a little more.  Tuned out not to have any effect whatsoever other than to make things sloppy and wiggle up and down.  Not what I wanted.  So I currently have a brass shim in place there to bring it back where it was before I went all file happy on it.  I wished I'd just left that completely alone  :wallbang:

Anyway here’s a pic of where I ended up:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-6-DSC_9330.jpg)

And a short video to show it all working as intended!  :cartwheel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdEj9Rmc9DM

Now back to the sad part.  :hammerbash:  Here’s the side with my bungled attempt to fix things where I now have a nice shim installed.  I’m considering if I should leave it like this, or if I should silver solder a little piece in place there and make it look better.  That’s probably what I’ll do.  I just don’t want to mess up the parts that are already soldered in place.  But I think I can do it.  Any other thoughts on how to make this not look quite so stupid?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/110c-GuideYokesCont-7-DSC_9332.jpg)

Thanks,
Kim



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 20, 2021, 12:42:32 AM
Nice motion Kim!

My first thought on the shim would be to make it from steel and bond it place with some JB clamped up tight. Make it a little oversized so it could be dressed back down to the original surfaces.
Silver solder would be ok but there is always some risk involved with something going wrong on your finished part.  :wallbang:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 20, 2021, 12:47:46 AM
Nice motion Kim!

My first thought on the shim would be to make it from steel and bond it place with some JB clamped up tight. Make it a little oversized so it could be dressed back down to the original surfaces.
Silver solder would be ok but there is always some risk involved with something going wrong on your finished part.  :wallbang:

Dave
That was my first thought too. Or a little steel-colored paint on the brass edge... Not that I have ever done that. Today, anyway!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 20, 2021, 01:41:15 AM
You’ll make the right decision Kim. Just think it out but like Dave said silver soldering something could go wrong. Myself I feel comfort enough to give it a try and silver solder, if it failed start over it’s the risk I would take. Just my two cents.


Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2021, 05:20:55 AM
Thanks for the input Dave, Chris, and Don,

I like the JB Weld idea... Yes, making the added part a bit larger would be a good idea, Dave, thanks.

My one concern would be how the JB Weld would hold up during powder coating.  The spec says standard JB Weld is good to 500F so it ought to be OK.  The max you need for powder coating is 450.

Does anyone have experience with powder coating and JB Weld?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on October 20, 2021, 07:42:41 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work & great progress! Keep up the good work!

On the shim leave it as it is! The orginal full-size drawings I have for my project has brass shims on the plans! So you are spot on to full size!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 20, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
Loved the motion in the latest rolling video Kim! The crossheads and rods look really great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

+1 on using a shim or two being just fine. On most full size steam locomotives and traction engines (and cars too, for that matter, ie body shims etc.) shims were widely used to adjust running and assembly tolerances. As a steam locomotive saw hard use out on the road, wear was a reality and it is a lot cheaper faster and easier to add a shim than make a new crosshead bar or valve guide part, so that's what was done. On one traction engine I was involved with years ago, I found .140" worth of shims under a crosshead slipper, in .002", .005, .010 and many other denominations - including bits of coffee cans! Don't feel bad about using a shim or two. The old mechanics were masters at taking up wear and adjusting things to work. If they'd had JB Weld they likely would have used it.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2021, 05:17:59 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Kerin and CNR!

I'm thinking I'll be epoxying a shim in place today.  Then trim it down to size tomorrow.  The thought of having it look more prototypical with a shim is encouraging though! :)  My frustration is mostly with me not trying the more obvious fixes first.  I should have started from the basics like I did eventually. Unfortunately, I put it all together and tried to figure out what was wrong.

But what eventually got me there was to take everything apart (the thing I tried to avoid), and take it one step at a time:

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 20, 2021, 09:52:21 PM
I understand some of your frustrations .... and we have all been there in one form or another  :-[
But I certainly enjoyed to see it all move as it should  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2021, 10:06:06 PM
Thank you Per!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: petertha on October 21, 2021, 06:24:16 PM
I'm not up to speed on powdercoating baking temps but you might be pushing the heat limit of epoxy. It may not fail but if it softens & resets, that's not good either. I've also read where JB (any epoxy really) can 'out gas' at elevated temp & cause paint adhesion grief, bubble defects etc. If it wasn't for the temperature aspect, I think any of the proposed fixes would be fine. The added material would be hard to spot unless you were looking for it. There are lots of super tough finishing systems out there, but a) usually involve part B catalyst containing isocyanates in the good stuff b) not typically sold in thimble quantities.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 21, 2021, 07:37:44 PM
Yes, when I suggested the JB approach I had forgot the Kim was going to powder coat these parts. Might be a good idea to do a sample part/assembly.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 21, 2021, 11:26:01 PM
Thanks Pertha and Dave,

JB Weld is supposed to work even at high sustained temperatures (500-550F), so it ought to be OK.  I did a little more Googling and found some references to where people have used JB Weld as filler in their powder coated parts and they have had good luck with it.  Someone found that it outgassed if you didn't let it cure 24 hours before powder coating.  But I'll certainly be beyond that.  I'm going to give it a shot.  If it falls off during the coating process then it will probably be a shim. (or I can super glue it on after coating :)).

Thanks for thinking this through with me,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: petertha on October 21, 2021, 11:58:49 PM
Yes some references I saw regarding powder coat bake temps were ~< 400F if that is considered typical. So on that basis hopefully all will be OK.

Terry on the other forum has been using GunKote (POR-15) which has a lower bake temp, 275-325F +/- duration according to the specs if that's helpful. But presumably you are getting a batch of powder coat parts done & not wanting to mix & match coating systems.
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/ford-300-inline-six.33115/page-9#post-365314
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 22, 2021, 07:25:32 AM
I would leave the shim alone.  Also powder coat the yokes and tie as onr piece if possible to avoid changing dimensions among the parts. Don't coat the tie bars.  Don't coat anything until you have the valve gear made and all assembled.  There is a bracket still to be attached to the yokes and the clearance in the slots to be verified.

I spent a lot more than one day getting things to move smoothly, so you did very well.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on October 22, 2021, 11:27:42 AM
Why not soft solder a shim on? Make it over size and file it to match after. I use and love TIX solder. JB weld might work...but well, its JB weld. Really good stuff and very easy to use. I often use a small butane torch with it. Be sure to get the flux with it.

https://www.amazon.com/Tix-Solder-Boat-Train-Parts/dp/B000RB5BQU
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 22, 2021, 05:15:23 PM
I would leave the shim alone.  Also powder coat the yokes and tie as onr piece if possible to avoid changing dimensions among the parts. Don't coat the tie bars.  Don't coat anything until you have the valve gear made and all assembled.  There is a bracket still to be attached to the yokes and the clearance in the slots to be verified.
Good idea about powder coating the whole yoke together, Kvom.  And yes, I'll be waiting to coat it for a while yet.

I spent a lot more than one day getting things to move smoothly, so you did very well.
Well, I've spent the last two days continuing to refine things.  If you notice, I didn't have the O-ring retainers in the cylinders around the piston rod yet (what would normally be called the packing glands?).  It took some work to get those in and smoothly, plus a lot of other little work.  I think I'm almost ready to move on to the valve gear!


It's nice to have someone who's done this before giving me tips along the way!  Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 23, 2021, 05:17:02 PM
Quote
Why not soft solder a shim on? Make it over size and file it to match after.
Hi kim. I think soft solder would be my approach as well. But it's your choice and I would expect JBW to work fine too. Anyway, it's looking really good! Just a small hurdle to clear.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2021, 06:28:18 PM
PJ and Ron,
Yes, soft solder could be a good solution, but I'm planning to power coat the thing.  And the powder coating process requires that you bring the parts up to 450oF for some time.  That is higher than the melting point of soft solder, so would fall apart during the baking process.

The TIX solder looks very interesting too, but with a lower melting point than standard soft solder, I think it will have the same problem with the coating oven.

So for now, I'm leaving it at JB Weld.  If that doesn't work, it will probably just be left as a shim.  And as Kerrin and Cnr pointed out, shims were very prototypical  ;)

Thank you for following along.  I really do appreciate the input!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 23, 2021, 06:38:21 PM
My bad. Been catching up a little and commented without reading all the back posts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 23, 2021, 07:01:16 PM
Kim

I'll admit that I check this thread only occasionally, but I recognize the tremendous amount of effort involved in building a live stream locomotive, having built an Allen ten-wheeler some 20 years ago.  Mine was a three and one half year project, even working on it nearly daily.

It looks to me that you have this project well in hand and I like what I see. 

From the sidelines...  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2021, 11:07:52 PM
Thanks Craig!

Wow!  THAT is a big project!  My engine is tiny by comparison.  You should share a picture of it with us!  I'd love to see it.

Thanks for looking in Craig,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 23, 2021, 11:14:55 PM
As we’ve been talking about, I used JB Weld to attach the shim to the yoke guide bracket:  (that’s a little piece of wax paper that I used to help the clamp not get glued in place.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-1-DSC_9334.jpg)

Then I filed the shim down to match the bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-2-DSC_9337.jpg)

Unfortunately, when I went to drill the hole in the shim, it popped off :(.  I had let it set for 12+ hours, but not a full 24, so maybe that had something to do with it.  But I think the main issue is that there’s so little surface area for the bond to hold.  I did try and rough it up some by scratching a waffle pattern into it and the bracket where it is being glued.  Ah well.

I mixed a little more JB Weld and reattached the shim, using the screw to hold it in place this time.  Hopefully, it will hold through the powder coating process.  If not, such is life.

I took this opportunity to disassemble things further and finally drill & tap the jackscrew holes in the heads and the steam chest covers.  Here’s a shot of one set (I already had the other set assembled when I thought of the picture!)  You can see the threaded jack screw hole at the bottom of each part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-3-DSC_9339.jpg)

When reassembling things this time I added some graphite yarn to the pistons and put the o-rings in place on the piston rod.  I’d also never had the O-ring retainers in place, so that took some fitting and adjustments.


Chapter 17.1 – Valves

With things reassembled and running smoothly, I then moved forward to the valve gear.  There’s a lot of valve gear in this engine!  But the first element is the stem valve itself.

Kozo specifies bronze for this part (I’m using 932 bearing bronze).  I started from 5/8” nominal round bar.  This stuff is cast oversized so I ended up having to use a 43/64” collet to hold it.

First I shaved about a 3/4" length to 3/8” x 1/2".
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-4-DSC_9341.jpg)

On one of the 1/2" wide sides, I started the pocket for the steam valve with a 1/4" 2 flute end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-5-DSC_9342.jpg)

Switching to a 1/8” end mill I widened the pocket to the specified size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-6-DSC_9345.jpg)

Then, flipping the whole thing over, I cut the slots in the top of the valve for the valve nut and the valve rod using a 1/16” end mill.  Note that the long slot is NOT centered.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-7-DSC_9346.jpg)

Then I cut the part off from the parent stock.   I need to do one more of these, but this is where I stopped for the day.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-8-DSC_9349.jpg)

And just for fun, here’s the bottom side showing the steam pocket.  The left side still has to be milled square and to length.  When that’s done, the pocket will be centered on the valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111a-Valves-9-DSC_9350.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 24, 2021, 07:54:13 AM
As to that shim, you could pre drill a hole larger than the screw.  But it seems to me that the JB will make it thicker and require some filing after powdercoat.   Why not just coat it separately on the edges only and leave clamped in the assembly?

You could also use loctite, which would be a thinner adhesive.  I used it to glue some repair blocks on the cylinder of my Greene engine, and it survived powdercoating.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 25, 2021, 06:13:47 AM
Interesting.  So was that just standard red Loctite?  Or some high-temp version?

At this point, if it falls off during powder coating, it will likely end up as say here, just clamped in place by the screw holding the guide.  And the edges will be coated.  Or I might Loctite it after coating if it falls off.  We'll see. That's a ways away still!

Thanks Kvom,
Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 25, 2021, 09:24:53 PM
Thanks Craig!

Wow!  THAT is a big project!  My engine is tiny by comparison.  You should share a picture of it with us!  I'd love to see it.

Thanks for looking in Craig,
Kim

I will be the first to state that, having built one, building a live steam locomotive is a monstrous project.  Many are started, few ever get finished.  I have a friend who has been building one for 35 years; I doubt he will ever finish it.  I don't mean to belittle his efforts, it's just that the commitment is daunting.

I'll give you a photo of my locomotive, fronting it's consist below:(https://i.postimg.cc/fWS49PQt/WandG2.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 25, 2021, 11:34:51 PM
Wow!  That's a magnificent locomotive!  Thanks for sharing the picture  :ThumbsUp:  :D

You should feel good about that!  That's one impressive project, and you completed it!

Thanks Craig!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 25, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
Continuing on with the valves:

I completed the 2nd valve up to the same point and sawed it from the parent stock.

Then I trimmed the sawed end to the final length:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-1-DSC_9352.jpg)

All that’s left is to make the fancy angles on the sides of the valve.

First I cut the shallow angle – this one worked out to be a 13o angle.  So I set it up with some angle blocks and shaved off a little from the skinny side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-2-DSC_9356.jpg)

Next I did the 45o bevel on the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-3-DSC_9358.jpg)

And finally, the same (45) on the other two ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-4-DSC_9359.jpg)

Unfortunately, when doing the second valve, I got a little cocky and took too aggressive of a cut.  This valve is so thin with the pocket on the underside and the deep grooves on the front side.  But everything had been going so well.  Guess I found the limits of 1/64” of bronze!  :hammerbash:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-5-DSC_9362.jpg)

Another shot of my bungle out of the vise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/111b-Valves-6-DSC_9363.jpg)

I knew better.  I was being really careful.  But as I said, it was all going so well, and I guess I let myself get in a bit of a rush to get it completed.  Live and re-re-re-learn...

So, time for me to call it quits for the day.  I’ve got one valve complete at least.  I’ll redo the other one next time.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 26, 2021, 12:05:33 AM
Man what a bummer. Well as the saying goes you’re still learning and believe me you will never stop learning the hard way. They just get farther apart…
You got this Kim…..

Don..
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 90LX_Notch on October 26, 2021, 12:27:17 AM
That’s a bummer Kim.

-Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 26, 2021, 12:33:06 AM
Ouch!  At least you get the fun of making another part.   ::)   we've all been there.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 26, 2021, 01:53:46 AM
Clean up the edges, buff it up, hang it from a gold chain, and give it to someone as "art jewelry".
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 26, 2021, 01:56:08 AM
And when it happens…. It happens so quickly.  All you can do is watch in utter horror as that part you worked on so hard is jerked out of the vice and mutilated.  Well, at least you didn’t loose the end mill too, which has happened to me also.

Isn’t it amazing how hind site is 20 - 20?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on October 26, 2021, 02:57:59 AM
Ahh Man!!! Sorry to see that........ If its anything like when I do that the replacement gets made much faster......

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2021, 05:22:03 AM
Thanks for the commiseration everyone,
Yeah, it happened fast.  Luckily, it didn't pop out of the vise - that could have been worse - and more dangerous! I originally thought it came out of the vise - it's not being held by much.  But that wasn't the case.  It just bent in the middle at the weak point.  Should have gone at it more slowly.  I also see that I could have moved it down another 1/8" or so, which doesn't sound like much, but on a part that's only 1/2" long, that's 25% of the whole thing, so that could help.  I'll do that next time also.

Thanks for sticking with me through all my learning trials and tribulations.  As you said, Don, they aren't over yet.  Won't be over till I'm pushing up daisies and I don't plan on that any time soon!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 26, 2021, 12:58:04 PM
Ouch! sorry you had trouble on the valve. In my opinion relieving slide valves with fancy angles or relief cuts serves very little practical purpose. On full size engines it is wise to reduce the mass of slide valves to reduce wear, and to allow freer steam flow in the steam chest. In miniature though, mass has much less effect and steam chest volume is usually larger than scale already, as valve and stem and nut components are larger proportionally than full size, as is the steam chest. It's a whole lot easier to just make the functional pocket and two slots and leave out the fancy cuts. (yes I'm lazy, but I have built several engines and tried valves with and without fancy cuts in them - no detectable effect at all with or without cuts.) There may be some special cases of steam chest geometry / fluid mechanics that do cause the fancy cuts to have an effect in our small steam engines, but as I said I have not seen that yet. Just food for thought.

Kozo worked as a full size steam system designer at powerplants I believe. In those systems everything possible is done for absolute max efficiency and max working life. It could be that his normal thought process toward these goals was just carried over while designing the valve parts, and he made them to the optimal best they could be, even though real effect might not be measurable. Nothing wrong with chasing perfect, but again I'm lazy, and not driven to absolute perfection on non visible non critical to function features. But that's just me. I have the deepest respect for Kozo and his designs. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
Cnr, that's interesting, about Kozo.  I didn't know that he worked as a steam system designer.  You learn something every day on this forum!

Interesting idea about leaving them blocky, without the fancy chamfering cuts.  I was wondering myself why he did that.  Wouldn't change the downward force on the face of the valve - that would still be the same regardless.  Though it does look cooler :) I still think I'll do it even though unnecessary - I've got one done, just have to get around the second one now...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 26, 2021, 06:16:52 PM
The fancy angles sure do look cool. And now you know where you need to "tiptoe through the tulips" with light cuts!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 26, 2021, 06:25:40 PM
Just FYI Kim I scanned the bio about Kozo from the 2001 print of his Shay building book. It's attached. Interesting reading.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2021, 06:36:36 PM
That's really interesting.   I was going to say it must be in the New Shay book, because I have all the others.  But no, that is in one of the books I have.  Go figure. Guess I've read it and didn't retain the info.  Not that unusual for me :)

Thanks for sharing that CNR,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 26, 2021, 06:44:49 PM
Very welcome Kim.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
I finally got the second valve completed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/112a-ValveNuts-1-DSC_9367.jpg)

Chapter 17.2 – Valve Nuts

And now it’s time to start on the Valve Nuts.

I chose to make these from 1/4" square 360 brass.  I found a short length in my scrap box so used that.  I  placed it in a square collet holder, faced it off in the mill, clocked it in, then drilled and tapped a 2-56 hole right in the center:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/112a-ValveNuts-2-DSC_9369.jpg)

Then shaved off a few thou from each side to make it 0.240” square, as per the plan.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/112a-ValveNuts-3-DSC_9371.jpg)

And finally used a slitting saw to slice off two square nuts, close to 0.078” thick.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/112a-ValveNuts-4-DSC_9372.jpg)

After just a touch of filing work, here they are.  One is nestled in its spot in the valve, the other just sitting there so you can see how pretty it is. :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/112a-ValveNuts-5-DSC_9375.jpg)

Next up will be the valve rods.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 30, 2021, 12:15:45 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 30, 2021, 12:50:34 AM
Great valve sliders!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 30, 2021, 12:54:08 AM
lots... and Lots... and LOTS of parts in a steam locomotive. 

Look'in good !
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2021, 05:51:45 AM
Thank you CNR, Chris, and Craig!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 30, 2021, 07:14:03 AM
Still following in the background and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  You are working your way nicely through the various problems  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on October 30, 2021, 07:06:57 PM
Interesting looking slide valve, all the ones I've seen so far just have a relief milled around the outside, nice work Kim

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2021, 04:45:34 AM
Thank you, Sam!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2021, 09:32:32 PM
Chapter 17.3 – Valve Spindles

Next up is the Valve Spindle – that’s what Kozo calls it anyway.  I’d have called it a valve rod. But what do I know?

Regardless of what you call it, it’s a fairly simple part.  The only challenge here is turning a 1/8” rod down to 0.086”.  I did that by supporting the end with a live center and taking really small cuts.  And it worked.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/113a-ValveSpindles-1-DSC_9378.jpg)

Then I removed the live center, cut the taper using the compound slide, then threaded the rod 2-56.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/113a-ValveSpindles-2-DSC_9380.jpg)

After cutting it off at the specified length, I flipped it around and threaded a short length of the 1/8” end to 5-44.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/113a-ValveSpindles-3-DSC_9382.jpg)

And here are the two valve rods:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/113a-ValveSpindles-4-DSC_9386.jpg)

Slipped into their home positions with the valve nuts and valves:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/113a-ValveSpindles-5-DSC_9388.jpg)

Next up will be the valve spindle yokes (which I would call the valve rod clevis.)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 04, 2021, 09:42:05 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2021, 10:53:47 PM
Chapter 17.4 – Valve Spindle Yokes

Last weekend I started the Valve Spindle Yokes (the valve rod clevises).  I got about half done and was going to finish on Monday.  But my Monday took a different direction.  So instead, I finished them on Friday.  If you’re interested to hear more about my adventure, I posted a summary in the Chatterbox sub-forum.

But back to the Pennsy!

The valve clevises are small little forks that will thread onto the end of the valve rod. They were made from 1/4" x 3/8" 1018 CRS bar stock.  I cut off a piece a little over 1 1/8” long to make the two clevises from.  I will be making one on each end, then cut them in half.

The first op was to shave the part down to the right thicknesses – 0.200” x 23/64”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-1-DSC_9390.jpg)

With that done, I measured 0.100” in from each side and drilled & reamed a 5/64” hole all the way through.  This will be for the clevis pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-2-DSC_9392.jpg)

After centering up the RT, I used a gauge pin to center the end of the part over the RT and clamped it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-3-DSC_9397.jpg)

And rounded off the end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-4-DSC_9398.jpg)

Then, tipping it up on end, I carved out the forks by making a 0.204” wide gap centered in each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-5-DSC_9400.jpg)

At this point, I cut the part down the middle(ish) and cleaned up the ends to the correct length:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-6-DSC_9404.jpg)

The final step was to drill and tap 5-44 to match the end of the valve rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-7-DSC_9406.jpg)

And here are the completed clevises:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-8-DSC_9408.jpg)

Now, mounted on the valve rods.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/114a-ValveSpindleYokes-9-DSC_9411.jpg)

That’s one more piece down!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on November 13, 2021, 12:24:59 AM
Hi Kim, nice work on the clevis’s.  Good to see progress again despite the inconvenient interruption.

I always look forward to your updates.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2021, 06:11:57 AM
Thanks MJM!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 13, 2021, 01:07:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
Thanks CRN  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 19, 2021, 12:07:29 AM
Chapter 17.5 – Combination Levers

This week I’ve been working on the Combination Levers.  These are the short levers that connect the valve rod to the rest of the valve gear (the Radius Rod and the Crosshead) and produce that combined motion that is characteristic of the Walshaerts valve mechanism.

Just so I don’t confuse people who may be following Kozo’s book, this is NOT the method he shows to use for this part.  I charted my own process here.  I did use some of his techniques though, as you’ll see later.  But he did most of this part in a completely different way.

To start with, I cut some 1/4" square 12L14 bar then did some stress-relieving.  Not sure if 12L14 is as prone to go banana as the 1018 CRS is, but I figured it was easy to do.  The two short pieces are for the Combination Levers. The longer pieces are for the Radius Rods which will be coming up shortly.  Figured I’d just do the stress relief at the same time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-01-DSC_9415.jpg)

After shaving the 1/4" square down to 0.200” square I drilled some #49 holes in the right place.  These will be reamed out to 5/64” eventually, but for now, this size will allow a nice close fit for some 1-72 screws to use to hold the part in a jig for shaping.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-02-DSC_9420.jpg)

Next, I made a jig using some 1/2" aluminum.  I drilled & tapped holes in the right locations to hold the rod in place.  This jig will be used in both horizontal and vertical positions for various operations in the making of this part.

Here I’m using it horizontally to mill the neck of the ‘small end’ of the combination lever.  Hopefully, this will become more clear later.  I milled this 1/4", but if I were to do it again, I’d probably use 3/16” instead.  I think 1/4” was just a tad too big for this radius.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-03-DSC_9423.jpg)

With that done, I turned the part sideways (sans-jig) and drilled a #45 hole (0.082”) as the termination for the slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-04-DSC_9424.jpg)

And then proceeded to cut the slot from the end to the hole just drilled.  I did this by using an 0.040” saw, positioning it to produce the right with of the upper fork.  After slicing the upper side, I flipped the part over and did it again to get the other side (which was now the upper side again of course, since I flipped the part). This way the slot was centered and I had the same with of tines on both sides of my fork.  This operation was surprisingly satisfying.  I would have normally just gone to a 1/16” end mill for this operation, but Kozo showed doing it this way and I decided to give it a go.  I was super impressed with how well it worked!  :Lol:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-05-DSC_9426.jpg)

Back to the jig, where we mount it vertically in the mill vise and use a 5/32” mill to narrow the bulk of the lever.  The just-completed one is mounted in the jig, and the second one is sitting on the vise below, waiting his turn.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-06-DSC_9430.jpg)

There’s a notch that has to be cut into the small end of the lever, so I did that next.  I wanted to make sure and get that done BEFORE I cut the taper on the rod (which would make it a lot harder to hold!  I also did a double and triple check before doing this operation since the lever is no longer symmetrical - Wouldn't want to notch the wrong side!  :o
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-07-DSC_9432.jpg)

And now, the taper.  This is a very shallow taper.  I calculated that it was around 1.5o.  To do this, I drilled another hole on the right side that was 0.048” thousandths lower than the centerline.  I had to use the second hole from the right.  If I’d used the first one, the hole for the taper would have overlapped the hole for mounting it straight.  By using the second hole, I didn’t have that problem.  But I did have to make sure I did my trig calculations for THAT hole and not the other one.  It’s hard to see here, but the taper has been cut on the topside, but not the bottom.  To do the other side, I had to flip the part over.  This jig only cut the taper correctly on one side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-08-DSC_9436.jpg)

Here’s a better view of the part in the jig, post tapering.  It’s hard to tell, but the part is at a bit of an angle, and after the tapering, the top is now flat/straight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-09-DSC_9439.jpg)

And finally, I made some 0.200” filing buttons and rounded the ends of the combination levers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-10-DSC_9444.jpg)

Here they are completed!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/115a-CombinationLevers-11-DSC_9449.jpg)

Oh, wait!  I forgot to ream the holes out to 5/64”! :embarassed:  Guess I’ll do that tomorrow.  But they are essentially done!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 19, 2021, 01:55:45 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on November 19, 2021, 03:50:32 AM
Making progress Kim and very nice work…..


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 19, 2021, 07:54:08 AM
Nice work Kim,
They have come out lovely!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 19, 2021, 12:35:50 PM
I'd counsel against 12L14 as it's very prone to rust, and you won't be painting these parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 19, 2021, 06:24:09 PM
Thanks all, for the encouragement.

I'd counsel against 12L14 as it's very prone to rust, and you won't be painting these parts.
Kvom,
So, are you saying that 12L14 is more prone to rusting than 1018?  I have 1018 that has rust on it too, but that's interesting if that's the case.  I was planning to spray all the unpainted parts with some clear coat after they're all buffed up to keep things from rusting.  Hopefully that will help?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2021, 07:36:58 PM
A clear coat will definitely help on the 12L14. I used 12L14 for the wheels on my Kozo Shay, and they started to rust pretty quick. Sprayed them with clear lacquer, had some the kind sold for brass door knocker hardware, worked fine. After that started using 303 stainless for just about all steel parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 20, 2021, 11:18:04 PM
Thanks Chris!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 20, 2021, 11:20:08 PM
Chapter 17.6 – Union Links

Today’s project was to make the Union Links.  What are Union Links you might ask?  I found this chart (compliments of Wikipedia) that helps define all the elements of the Walschaerts Valve Gear.  And interestingly enough, Kozo is using all the standard terminology.  Go figure!  So where I said “I’d call it this or that” I was wrong.  Well, not wrong that I’d call it that, but I’d be wrong in what I called the part :)  This Kozo guy is pretty smart!

Anyway, the Union Link is part number 11 in this drawing, which can be found, along with a nice writeup, at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walschaerts_valve_gear  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walschaerts_valve_gear)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/116a-UnionLinks-4-WalschaertsValveGear.jpg)
As you can see, I’ve still got a LOT of mechanism to go!

The union links were made from 1/16” sheet steel.  I have been using 4130 for my sheet steel.   I had a scrap piece I was able to cut these two pieces out of. Here I’m getting ready to sticky tape them together to make them both at the same time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/116a-UnionLinks-1-DSC_9452.jpg)

I added another 1-72 hole to the jig and shaped the pair of them, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/116a-UnionLinks-2-DSC_9454.jpg)

Then use a filing button to round the ends, reamed the holes to 5/64” and there you have it.  Couldn’t be simpler, right? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/116a-UnionLinks-3-DSC_9457.jpg)

That was an easy one.  Not sure there are too many more easy parts remaining!

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 21, 2021, 12:14:27 AM
Might be simple, but they sure look good!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

(the designers in the days of steam may have called it a union link because "sausage link" was already taken) :Lol:

One thing's for sure, Kozo did his research, and knew his model subjects.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on November 21, 2021, 12:16:45 AM
Nice work, how did you do the stress relief, did you just heat up and let them cool or did you have to hold them at a certain temp for a while?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2021, 06:05:55 AM
Thanks CNR!

Nice work, how did you do the stress relief, did you just heat up and let them cool or did you have to hold them at a certain temp for a while?
My unscientific method was to bring them up to a cherry red for about 5 min, then let them cool down slowly.  Since these were fairly small pieces with very small crosssection, I only did about 5 min.  But for larger, thicker pieces I hold them at temp longer.  I'm sure a more controlled high temp and a slower cool-down would be better.  Clearly, it's not as controlled as a heat-treating oven would be.  But I have found it to help significantly, regardless. That's how I learned to do this step - actually, people on this forum told me I needed to; that's why some of my parts came out looking like a potato chip!  And after doing this stress relief it really improved!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on November 21, 2021, 08:37:05 AM
Thanks Kim, I'll give that a go when i next machine some valve gear bits, I got lucky when doing my coupling rods I think!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2021, 12:00:37 AM
Chapter 17.7 – Link Bracket

The next part is the Link Bracket which will connect the union link to the crosshead.

The blanks were cut from 1/16” steel (4031 same as the union links).  Here I’m getting ready to double sticky tape them together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/117a-LinkBrackets-1-DSC_9459.jpg)

After they were connected, I drilled three holes – two for attaching the bracket and one for the union link.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/117a-LinkBrackets-2-DSC_9462.jpg)

Then on to the jig.  Had to make a few new holes for this part.  In this position, I trimmed the parts to length then milled the neck on the bracket and trimmed the round part down so it would take less filing later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/117a-LinkBrackets-3-DSC_9466.jpg)

Now at an angle in the jig to cut the sloping sides of the bracket.  Here’s the first side done.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/117a-LinkBrackets-4-DSC_9470.jpg)

After doing the second side I rounded the corners with files and then we’re done!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/117a-LinkBrackets-5-DSC_9474.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 28, 2021, 02:02:52 AM
I'm impressed by your work on these small parts, Kim. Valve gear links aren't as sexy as some other parts, but they're just as critical to the smooth operation of the whole. Plus, they are among the parts that "get looked at" the most! It's obvious from the care you take that you understand both points. :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 28, 2021, 02:38:33 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2021, 05:25:45 AM
Thanks Ron and CNR,
I do try to take the same level of care with all parts.  I kind of look at each part as its own project, and I'm sure it shows in my snail's pace.  But as long as I'm having fun, right?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 28, 2021, 07:17:20 AM
Lots more fiddley and important parts  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  I have also found slitting saws better than end mills for slotting the ends of rods.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 01, 2021, 11:34:54 PM
Chapter 17.8 – Radius Rods

The last several days have been spent working on the Radius Rod. This is another part of the valve gear that connects the curved expansion link bracket to the rest of the mechanism.  I assume that’s why it’s called “Radius Link” because it follows the radius of the curved expansion link part (which will be coming up shortly), but I don’t really know.

This was made along the same lines as the combination lever with just a few differences.

After bringing the part to a 0.200” square cross-section, I drilled the holes at the appropriate locations.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-1-DSC_9476.jpg)

Then used a slitting saw to cut the slit in the end of the rod.  This part has a much deeper slit than the previous part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-2-DSC_9480.jpg)

Next, on the jig, I plunged the mill down at the right spots to create the neck of the small end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-3-DSC_9482.jpg)

Using the 5/32” mill thinned the length of the part except for the very end where the screw was holding the part in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-4-DSC_9487.jpg)

Then I added a clamp to hold it down and removed the screw.  That allowed me to complete the thinning job to the end of the piece.  I got smarter and for the second part, I took down the end first, then did the long middle section.  I had no mishaps, but having the thicker neck holding it in place made for a little less chatter while milling the end, and perhaps most importantly, it made me feel more secure!

Here I’ve completed the thinning job.  It looks like there’s a big thickness difference between the previously completed section and the tip that was just completed.  But honestly, it was barely noticeable in real life, and after a little filing/sanding to remove the tool marks, you can’t tell at all.  I think the picture is seeing a ‘grain’ difference in the direction it was milled or something.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-5-DSC_9489.jpg)

Apparently, I didn’t get any pictures of tapering the radius rods, but I did do that.  I used the jig, same as on the other part, though the angle was VERY shallow for this. But it worked well.

I made some 3/16” filing buttons to use in rounding off the small ends and used the 0.200” filing buttons from before for the split ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-6-DSC_9492.jpg)

And after a little buffing to clean up the tool marks, here are the completed radius rods:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/118a-RadiusRods-7-DSC_9495.jpg)

Still, a dozen or more parts to go in the saga of the valve gear!  And most of them are fairly complex little parts too.  So I’ll still be doing this for a while.

Thanks for checking in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 01, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Great job on the parts, following along...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 02, 2021, 03:12:25 AM
Awwww a craftsman at work, nice work Kim……


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 02, 2021, 05:25:31 AM
Thanks Chris and Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 02, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 03, 2021, 11:45:44 PM
Thanks CNR!

Chapter 17.9 – Link Blocks

Next up is the Link Block. This is a teeny-tiny piece that slides up and down in the expansion link.  It would appear to be a very simple little item – other than that the link bracket slot is an arc, so the shape of this block needs to be a little arc segment to match the radius of the expansion link.

Kozo recommends that this piece be made from bronze.  All the bronze I have is in rods.  I just happened to have a 1” piece of round 932 bearing bronze that I’d cut a chunk out of for something else.  So, I used that and cut another slice off of it for this.  Interestingly, the thin slice I cut (about 0.90” thick was my goal) did an amazing curl.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-01-DSC_9501.jpg)

I carefully bent the thin slice back to a flattish shape.  I used the vise some then I moved to this little V-block.  Working carefully, I was able to get it quite close to flat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-02-DSC_9503.jpg)

Then I sticky-taped it to a flat surface and shaved a few thou off of both sides to get my desired thickness (5/64”).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-03-DSC_9505.jpg)

Then I sticky-taped the blank to an aluminum jig that I’ve been using and clamped it to the rotary table so it was positioned with the correct radius.
Next I drilled two holes – one for the center of each of the link blocks.  These were drilled #53 (tapping size for 1-72) clear through into the jig block.  Then I drilled a clearance hole (#49) just through the bronze.  Then tapped through that hole into the aluminum jig, which allowed me to add some additional clamping using #1-72 screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-04-DSC_9509.jpg)

This chart shows how I’m planning to cut the link blocks.  I’ll be using the rotary table to sweep the arcs, then set specific angles on the RT for the top and bottom edges.  I used lots of fancy trig to figure out what the angles would be.  I’ve never done this before – using angles on the RT to cut a part to width and length.  But it seemed to work adequately.  I was able to get within a couple of thou at least!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-05-DSC_9511.jpg)


With the additional clamping screws added I swept the top arc.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-06-DSC_9512.jpg)

Then I did the lower arc.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-07-DSC_9515.jpg)

Next, I set the RT to my calculated angles to cut the top of one of the link blocks.  Since I want the edge of the blocks to intersect the center of the arc I had to offset the mill by 1/32” (since I was using a 1/16” mill).  And with this offset, I did the top of the other block too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-08-DSC_9518.jpg)

Now, to do the bottoms of the link blocks I had to offset the axis 1/32” in the opposite direction.  Then set the angles and make the cut. With that done you have the completed shapes of the two link blocks.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-09-DSC_9520.jpg)

The only thing left to do is to ream the holes to 5/64.  To do this I removed the clamping screws and relied solely on the sticky tape to hold things in place.  At this point there’s only a tiny square of tape holding it there.  But it worked and nothing pulled up from the table.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-10-DSC_9525.jpg)

And here you have the two link blocks.   Guess I need to clean them up a bit.  That black gunk you see on the parts is sticky-tape residue.  I just need to get it cleaned up.  But they are quite small!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/119a-LinkBlocks-11-DSC_9528.jpg)

I was fairly pleased with my ‘cutting to length by angles’ experiment.  The part was supposed to be 0.171” long and in the end, I measured 0.169”.  So, a couple of thou short, but it's plenty close for this.  The length of this part isn’t that critical I think. The width is more so and that was done using standard DRO methods, so that came out fine.  Besides, I’ll be milling the arc in the expansion link to match these parts anyway!

A tough part completed.  Now I’ve got a bunch more curved parts up next with the expansion link itself.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 04, 2021, 12:23:55 AM
Definitely some tiny parts, nicely done!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on December 04, 2021, 12:36:27 AM
Nice work   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 04, 2021, 01:28:40 AM
Nicely done Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 04, 2021, 12:53:07 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 04, 2021, 01:28:18 PM
Remember you want a nice sliding fit in the expansion links, so when machining the slot start a bit small and sneak up on the width.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 04, 2021, 05:54:12 PM
Thank you everyone!  :cheers:

Remember you want a nice sliding fit in the expansion links, so when machining the slot start a bit small and sneak up on the width.

Thanks for the advice, Kvom.  I appreciate it.  I'm going to go out and start working on that right now!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 04, 2021, 10:00:22 PM
Oh man - they are easy to put into the assembly the wrong way (or at least trying to do so) ....
It's not easy to see what way the sides curve with so little amount of metal left ....

I have seen a number of Walschaerts valve gear from an early age - sometime in real life and many times in books - but these small details you just made, are some of the things one never thinks about when looking at the assembled gear.

Still following and enjoying your journey and description + progress Kim - thank you :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 04, 2021, 10:48:23 PM
Thanks Per!

Oh man - they are easy to put into the assembly the wrong way (or at least trying to do so) ....
It's not easy to see what way the sides curve with so little amount of metal left ....
Yeah, I've thought about that too! But in person, if you look closely, you can see which side is wider than the other, so you can tell which direction to put them in (I hope!  ;D)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 05, 2021, 07:44:02 AM
Those are some tiny parts  :praise2: I'm surprised, but happy, that the sticky tape kept them in place  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2021, 12:29:17 AM
Thanks Roger!
Yeah, that sticky tape is actually pretty amazing stuff!  I used it a lot with woodworking and I'm finding that it works pretty well for machining too.  I was quite impressed that it held those itty bitty parts. Of course, it was only reaming it out a few thou, so not too much force, but still, there was VERY little surface area to adhere to!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2021, 05:51:40 PM
It’s been a while since my last update, but I’ve still been beavering away on my parts!  I had this idea that I’d wait till I completed the parts before I posted.  Not sure it was such a good idea, cause now I have many posts worth of work to catch up on!

So here goes…

Chapter 17.10 – Expansion Links and Trunnion Plates

The next parts are the Expansion Links and the Trunnion Plates. These parts need to be made together.  Not only do they share a lot of common machining operations, but it really helps to have all the parts as you’re doing this.  I actually interspersed operations between these parts more than it looks based on what I show here.  But even then you can see where I use the Trunnion Plates to mark up the Expansion Links in one place below.  I’m sure it could have been calculated mathematically, but it was much easier this way!

On with the show!

Starting with the Expansion Links, these are the curved parts that the radius rod slides around in as the Reverse Lever moves the radius rod up and down to adjust direction and steam cutoff.

The expansion link blanks were cut from 0.080” sheet steel on the bandsaw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-1-DSC_9533.jpg)

However, the Expansion Links are supposed to be 5/65” thick, which is 0.078”.  So I double-sticky taped the blanks down and skimmed a thousandth off of each side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-2-DSC_9536.jpg)

After sticky-taping the two blanks together I drilled three #49 holes.  Two of these will be used with #1-72 screws to hold the parts in the jig for machining and then will be widened to be #2-56 through holes. The last one is the lever arm that will connect to the eccentric rods (which we have yet to make). That last one was reamed to 5/64”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-3-DSC_9540.jpg)

To facilitate cutting the arcs I drilled and tapped the 1-72 holes in the Rotary Table jig which was set concentric to the center of the RT.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-4-DSC_9551.jpg)

Then mounting the blank pair on the jig I proceeded to mill the arc that the Link Blocks will ride in.   In this picture, I just completed milling this slot and I’m using my favorite pair of tweezers to move the link block around to make sure it’s a close sliding fit.  Side note:  I was deathly afraid of having that little link block go flying across the room never to be seen again!  I tried to be super careful.  But I just had to test the slot before I could say it was done.  Luckily, I didn’t lose the itty-bitty part.  But I sure worried about it. And I’ve still got many chances to lose it yet!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-5-DSC_9555.jpg)

With the slot cut, its time to cut the lower radius in the part:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-6-DSC_9558.jpg)

Before cutting the top radius, I drilled a hole where I wanted my arc to stop.  Don’t want to cut off the lever arm!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-7-DSC_9562.jpg)

And then proceeded to cut the arc.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-8-DSC_9564.jpg)

After taking off the scrap chunk I cut the angle across the top of the expansion links.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120a-ExpansionLinks-9-DSC_9565.jpg)

And that’s as far as I could go on the expansion links till I made some progress on the trunnion plates.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2021, 05:59:08 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2021, 06:00:20 PM
The Trunnion Plates surround the Expansion Links and provide the pivot point for the mechanism.  They have the same radius as the expansion links and have the same two mounting holes.

The trunnion plate blanks were cut from 1/8” x 5/8" 1018 bar stock then double-sticky taped together in pairs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-1-DSC_9546.jpg)

Each pair was then drilled for the #49 mounting holes and a 1/8” reamed hole in the middle.  This middle hole will eventually hold some pivot pins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-2-DSC_9547.jpg)

I then moved the trunnion plate pairs to the same jig, same holes as used for the expansion links, and did the same operations to cut the inside arc, the outside arc, and the top.  But THIS time I also cut the bottom to length (which we didn’t do for the expansion links).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-3-DSC_9567.jpg)

Now, here’s where I used the trunnion plates to mark up the expansion links.  I made a 9/32” filing button for the rounded end of the lever, but to get the right shape on the bottom of the lever arm I used the trunnion plates and just marked a straight line to the intersection of the trunnion plate and the edge of the link – if you look close, you can see the scribe line there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-4-DSC_9571.jpg)

Then some disk sanding and filing later, the final shape of the lever arm is revealed!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-5-DSC_9572.jpg)

The last operation on the expansion links is to square up the inside of the milled slot so that the link block can slide all the way to the ends.  Here again, I was very afraid of losing the little link blocks.  Then I finally realized that I had some extra material that is exactly the same radius and width as the link blocks (extra length that had leftover when I cut off the real parts!) so I started using that for these fitting operations.  In addition to being less concerned about losing it, this part was much longer than the actual link blocks making it easier to hold onto.  And I could hold it with forceps without worrying about scratching it.  This ended up working quite well and was far less stressful!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-6-DSC_9575.jpg)

And after widening the two upper holes to 2-56 clearance size, here are the completed expansion links.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120b-ExpansionLinks-7-DSC_9592.jpg)

That completes the expansion links. Just the trunnion plates to go...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2021, 06:08:07 PM
Now, back to the Trunnion Plates!

The next thing to do here is to carve out the cavity on the underside of the plates.  To do this, I made yet another jig with holes placed such that it would hold the part at 17o and 31 o up, and 17o and 31 o down – four different positions.

Here's how I used the jig: For the first edge, I used position #1 (note that the numbers are in a bizarre order, but that is correct).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-01-DSC_9577.jpg)

To make the lower part of that edge, I used position #2:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-02-DSC_9578.jpg)

Then for the other side, I used position #3.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-03-DSC_9581.jpg)

And of course, for the final edge on the far side, is position #4.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-04-DSC_9582.jpg)

Not hard, but a lot of moving parts around in a jig – for four different parts.

Here’s the point where these four parts become two pairs of parts.  One set is tapped 2-56, and the other set is drilled for a 2-56 clearance and countersunk.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-05-DSC_9587.jpg)

This shows the four trunnion plate parts (two of each kind, though you can’t tell it because some of them are upside down).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-07-DSC_9593.jpg)

And this is mostly what they will look like when assembled.  The fork of the radius rod will slide between those slots and hold the link block between its fork in the slot in the slot in the expansion link in the middle. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-06-DSC_9590.jpg)

But wait! the trunnion plates are not done yet!  We still need to add the pivot pins!

So, off to the lathe to turn four little pivot pins:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-08-DSC_9596.jpg)

Then silver solder them in place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-09-DSC_9598.jpg)

And after a clean and shine, here are the completed set of trunnion plates!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/120c-ExpansionLinks-10-DSC_9601.jpg)

And this now brings us up to date!

Still, many more parts to go on the valve gear!

Thanks for checking in and sticking with me through this long series of posts,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2021, 06:11:27 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Thanks Chris! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 16, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Great looking little parts, Kim! I don't know how you can do such nice work and still remember to document the details as you go, but I'm glad you manage to. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 16, 2021, 09:32:15 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2021, 11:12:41 PM
Thanks, CNR and Ron!

Great looking little parts, Kim! I don't know how you can do such nice work and still remember to document the details as you go, but I'm glad you manage to. :ThumbsUp:

I don't know what I'd do without the camera in the shop!  It's just my habit now to do an operation, take a few pics, then set up for the next one.   I still forget the camera from time to time, but I can usually recreate the scene.  Maybe you notice some of those irregularities?  Like taking a picture of "drilling" when in fact, you've already tapped the hole?  Or that sort of thing  :naughty:

But I so enjoy sharing.  And I tend to learn more when I show more detail because then people can mention better ways (or safer!) of doing the same thing.  And I learn!

So, it's kind of self-serving, isn't it?  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2021, 11:26:57 PM
It also comes in handy on later projects when you need to make the same kind of part, and can't remember how you did it before!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 17, 2021, 01:47:26 AM
Moving along very well Kim…. :ThumbsUp:



Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2021, 05:09:53 AM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2021, 05:10:34 AM
It also comes in handy on later projects when you need to make the same kind of part, and can't remember how you did it before!

Very true!  I've used my build log many times to refer back to what I've done!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 22, 2021, 11:00:12 AM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  What's the grooving tool you are using for the 'four little pivot pins'?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2021, 03:12:41 PM
What's the grooving tool you are using for the 'four little pivot pins'?

It's the Warner grooving tool: https://www.arwarnerco.com/Cutoff-and-Grooving-s/169.htm (https://www.arwarnerco.com/Cutoff-and-Grooving-s/169.htm)

I think Little Machine Shop sells them too (in the US).

I've got the 3/8" version, and here I'm using a 1/16" HSS insert.  I really like this little cutoff/grooving tool.  I use it quite a bit!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 22, 2021, 08:27:01 PM
Groovy man!  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 26, 2021, 10:07:42 PM
I actually got this completed before Christmas but haven’t had a chance to upload till now. So here goes!

Chapter 17.11 –Link Brackets

The next parts up are the Link Brackets. These mount onto the guide yokes and will hold the previously made Expansion Links at the pivot pins.

The link brackets were made from a length of 1/4" x 3/4" 1018 bar.  The first thing I did was to shave the 1/4" thickness down to 0.200” per spec.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-01-DSC_9603.jpg)

Only the mounting surface of the brackets are 0.200” wide.  The main part of the bracket narrows down to 5/64”.  To narrow it, I used a 1/4" carbide end mill.  This gave me the required 1/8” radius where the part widened to 0.200”.  Since I was going to be doing this four times, I made a removable stop setup from some 123 blocks and a parallel.  I could push the bar out to hit the parallel and tighten the clamp down, then slide the parallel out of the way.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-02-DSC_9612.jpg)

Here’s what it looked like with the narrowing maneuver completed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-03-DSC_9606.jpg)

Next, I cut the narrowed end off the parent stock so I could make the next one.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-04-DSC_9610.jpg)

With four of these nascent bracket blanks I needed to square up the cut end and bring them to a specific length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-05-DSC_9614.jpg)

Now, using the newly formed base as the datum, I drilled and reamed the 1/8” hole for the pivots exactly 3/4" out, and centered exactly on the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-06-DSC_9618.jpg)

And using the DRO set exactly the same, I drilled and tapped the mounting holes in the end of brackets.  These holes are centered on the width, but most importantly, they are located the same distance above and below the pivot hole we just drilled.  But by using the same settings on the DRO, I am guaranteeing this.  Far different processes than Kozo uses, but he wasn’t assuming the reader had a DRO.  I believe I can be far more accurate using this procedure than the way he described.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-07-DSC_9620.jpg)

Now for the most complicated operations – cutting the angles on the sides of the brackets.  Luckily, this is not that critical, it’s mainly for looks so the accuracy isn’t as important.  I calculated the angles to be 15.1o so I just rounded down to 15o and used that.  It seemed close enough.

For the first side, I made this setup – it’s the bracket with a bunch of packing all set on a 15o angle block.  The actual bracket is sandwiched between a piece of brass and a piece of aluminum and backs up to yet another chunk of aluminum.  The piece in the back keeps the part from sliding down the angle block and the brass shim and aluminum packing allow the vise to clamp down on the bracket since it is narrower than the 1/4" wide angle block.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-09-DSC_9627.jpg)

Just to check my setup I removed the aluminum block so I could make sure the angle was coming out in about the right place, and not TOO close to the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-08-DSC_9623.jpg)

With my checking out of the way, I went ahead and cut the side down.  I took many small passes since there really isn’t much of the bracket being held in the vise.  But it seemed to work pretty well.  The additional piece of packing you see sticking out at a jaunty angle on the right was added partway through to hold the back 1/8” aluminum packing in place.  It actually isn’t clamped in at all and would jump around terribly during milling. That wedge helped significantly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-10-DSC_9628.jpg)

Here are all four brackets with one side angled.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-11-DSC_9632.jpg)

For the second side, I changed the angle block to 30o.  I also had to re-arrange all my packing.  I did a much better job of it this time :)  The short parallel sticking out of the vise on the right can be removed after the vise is clamped down on the part.  And when that is removed, the angle block can slide over to the right to help get it out of the way so I don’t accidentally take a bite out of it!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-12-DSC_9634.jpg)

And here they are after the second side was angled.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-13-DSC_9641.jpg)

Finally, I made a 9/32” filing button and rounded the ends of the brackets.

Here’s the completed angle brackets:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/121a-LinkBrackets-14-DSC_9645.jpg)

The next part will be the return crank.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 26, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
Still doing the small details Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on December 27, 2021, 01:48:48 AM
Great !
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: stevehuckss396 on December 27, 2021, 11:03:27 AM
I don't comment nearly enough but this thread is one of the great ones.great work and great documentation. Thank you for taking the time. I do check in on every update.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 27, 2021, 05:53:51 PM
Thanks for looking in on me Per, Minh, and Steve!
I really appreciate the kind comments  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on December 27, 2021, 07:24:22 PM
Magnificent work Kim, coming right along.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 28, 2021, 08:44:05 AM
Hi Kim,
 Moving right along !
Nice work on those 4 brackets, look to be tricky little items, you nailed it!


Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 28, 2021, 01:30:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2021, 05:25:54 PM
Thanks, Stuart, Kerrin and CNR,
Appreciate your encouragement!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2022, 12:05:13 AM
Chapter 17.12 – Return Cranks

This week I worked on the Return Cranks.  These are the little arms that clamp onto the crankpin on the rear wheels and provide an out-of-phase motion that is contrary to the motion of the crosshead bracket.  These two motions are combined through the combination lever to produce the final motion for the steam valves.

The return cranks were made together, end to end, out of a length of 1/4" x 1/2" 1018 bar.  After thinning the bar to 0.200” I drilled and reamed four 1/8” holes, two in each part.  The outside holes are used to hold the part on the jig for many of the machining steps but will later be enlarged for the crank pin.  The inside holes are the ones that will connect to the radius rod via a 1/8” pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-01-DSC_9648.jpg)

Using the outer holes, I mounted it on a jig and used a 1/8” end mill to define the edges of the 1/2" diameter round section that is centered around the eventual crankpin connection.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-02-DSC_9652.jpg)

Then I milled the outside ends flat to the correct width.  This will be where the screws go that will clamp the part onto the crankpins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-03-DSC_9653.jpg)

Next, I moved the part into a second hole in the jig that provided a ~5o angle so I could cut the angled sides of the crank.  This shows just after the first edge has been angled.  Note that the angle only goes to the center of the piece because there are TWO parts here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-04-DSC_9657.jpg)

Flipping it around and turning the piece over I cut the opposite side angle.  These two angles meet in the middle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-05-DSC_9658.jpg)

Then I completed the same two operations on the other side.  Here are all four angled sides completed.  You can begin to see the shape of the return cranks.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-06-DSC_9661.jpg)

Moving the piece back to the horizontal position on the jig, I mounted the jig vertically and used a 1/8” end mill to cut a recess on one side.  This covers both parts of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-07-DSC_9664.jpg)

And while the part is upright and clocked in, I drilled #49 holes through both ends.  This is not the right size for the #3-48 screws, but it is the right size to hold my filing buttons, and it is small enough that it doesn’t mess up the #3-48 holes.  We’ll widen these holes later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-08-DSC_9666.jpg)

Next, I used 1/2" filing buttons to round the area around the crankpin holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-09-DSC_9669.jpg)

Then I filed the ends round, again using filing buttons. These filing buttons are held with a #1 screw, which is why I used the #49 here earlier.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-10-DSC_9671.jpg)

Now that I’ve rounded the ends I can go ahead and drill the end holes to their final size.  They were first drilled through for #3-48 tapping, then I drilled halfway through with a 3-48 clearance hole.  After this, I tapped the other half of the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-11-DSC_9673.jpg)

And then I widened the crankpin holes and reamed them to 7/32” to match the crankpins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-12-DSC_9675.jpg)

The last major operation here is to cut a 1/32” slit on the end of the crank to allow the 3-48 screw to actually clamp the part onto the pin :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-13-DSC_9678.jpg)

With all major operations complete it’s now time to cut the piece in half on the bandsaw and use 9/32” filing buttons to round the ends of the crankpins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-14-DSC_9680.jpg)

And here are the two completed Return Cranks!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/122a-ReturnCranks-15-DSC_9684.jpg)

That was a lot more work than it had any right to be, but I’m pleased with how they look. And yes, they do in fact, tighten nicely onto the crankpins, I checked!  But before I can really assemble all of these pieces I’ve got a bunch of little pins to make. So that’s what I’ll be doing next.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 03, 2022, 12:34:18 AM
Real nice work, Kim. You're a link-makin'-maniac! (I mean that in the best possible way, of course ;))  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2022, 12:52:23 AM
Only taken in the best possible way!  ;D
Thanks Ron!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 03, 2022, 05:12:46 PM

Then, with a 1/16” mill, carved out the steam ports.  The inlet ports are just a hair over 1/16” (0.078” which just happens to be 2mm) and the exhaust port is 0.394” wide (10mm wide).  Seems Kozo didn’t bother to change this part of his design from metric.  Worked fine for me.  But it’s interesting nevertheless!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088b-Cylinders-5-DSC_8479.jpg)


Kim,

I can’t figure out the steam port depth. Do you recall how you figured that out?
The book’s narrative says refer to figure 14-7 for that, but it’s not shown

The right end view in Figure 14-3 could be read to imply the floor of the steam ports  intersect a plane  created with the peak of the cylinder major diameter ( the 1 7/16” dimension). 

Seems pretty important to not be specified explicitly though!! Perhaps I’m missing something obvious?!?

What worked for you?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2022, 11:20:06 PM
I can’t figure out the steam port depth. Do you recall how you figured that out?
The book’s narrative says refer to figure 14-7 for that, but it’s not shown

The right end view in Figure 14-3 could be read to imply the floor of the steam ports  intersect a plane  created with the peak of the cylinder major diameter ( the 1 7/16” dimension). 

Seems pretty important to not be specified explicitly though!! Perhaps I’m missing something obvious?!?

What worked for you?

Thanks in advance.

Well, you're right, I couldn't find it specified anywhere either.  So I did just what you describe, calculating it that way.  I came up with 5/32" deep.  It's clearly marked on MY drawings from when I cut the steam ports :)

However, I don't really think the depth is all that critical.  The main steam passageways are much smaller - just those drilled holes.  The important part of the milled ports is their width.  I don't even think the height is all that important, as long as it doesn't constrict the incoming steam or outgoing exhaust.  But the width is what's important because that has to line up with the edges of the D-valve to get the correct timing of the steam in and out of the cylinder.

So if you made the ports a little deeper, or a little shallower, I don't think it would matter at all.  (Though I'm willing to change my opinion based on what other people with more knowledge in this area have to say! Always willing to learn!)

Good luck, Matthew!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 03, 2022, 11:41:37 PM
I agree Kim - the depth of the ports is not critical, just needs to be sure not to break through into the cylinder or any other passage.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on January 05, 2022, 03:14:29 AM
I love steam train  , I will build a steam train someday
 Thanks for share !
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2022, 05:30:47 AM
Thanks Minh!
I'll look forward to seeing you post your steam locomotive build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on January 06, 2022, 01:45:13 PM
Hi Kim !
Your profile picture, do you have a video of that car ?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2022, 06:10:34 PM
Hi Minh,

I have a few videos of it running before it was completed in my build thread: https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8560.0.html (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8560.0.html)

And a set of pictures after it was completed in the showcase here: https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5264.0.html (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,5264.0.html)

But interestingly, no videos of it running when completed.  I have never steamed it up - I was going to... someday... but someday hasn't gotten her yet  :Lol:  So here's the closest I've got to a running video - it's running on air here, and it isn't completely finished, of course.  But it does run!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGZvS51xT-c

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on January 07, 2022, 01:29:47 PM
Hi Kim !
 Thank you for looking
Thanks a lot !
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2022, 11:52:38 PM
Chapter 17.13 – Pins

The next parts were more than a dozen little pins.  This wasn’t really hard, but it did have its challenges since they are all quite small.  The “large” pins were 1/8” in diameter, and the smaller ones (most of them) were 5/64” (0.078”).  Here’s the whole lot of them:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/123a-Pins-1-DSC_9688.jpg)

The ones in the middle on the top had to be a sliding fit for 5/65” along 2/3s of the length, and interference fit into 5/64” for the last 1/3 of the length.  That took me a little doing, but I think I’ve got it.  You really can't see the diameter change in the picture, but believe me, it's there!  Interestingly, I have those two sitting in opposite directions.  The chamfered end is the end with the sliding fit, and I intended to have them be facing the same way, but they clearly aren't!

Next will be assembling and fine-tuning the valve gear so I can verify the length required for the eccentric rods.

We’re closing in on the valve gear!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 16, 2022, 12:17:12 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2022, 01:59:47 AM
Thanks CNR!  Sorry I never responded!


Chapter 17.14 – Setting Return Cranks

To set the position of the return cranks, Kozo has you make a little jig. This Jig has a cut out at exactly a specific height such that the driver pin will fit in the cut out exactly at maximum travel.  Then, the top of the jig is the correct height so that the return crankpin will sit exactly on top of it when placed correctly.

The jig is just a little plate and is not hard to make, and it works very neatly:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124a-EccentricRods-1-DSC_9690.jpg)

With the return crank set I can remove the jig and use it for the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124a-EccentricRods-2-DSC_9691.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2022, 02:09:32 AM
Chapter 17.15 – Eccentric Rods

Now we move on to the eccentric rods.  But before we can make those, we have to measure the EXACT length of eccentric rod we will need.  And to do this, we need a little adjustable eccentric rod.

Kozo doesn’t give the plans for this but does show a picture of what he used.  Based on his pictures I made this one out of 3 pieces of 1/8” x 1/4" 1018 steel bar.

It wasn’t hard, but I had to figure out the dimensions so that the parts would fit together and, even more importantly, it would cover the range of potential lengths that I may need.

Here are the 3 pieces I made for the adjustable eccentric rod:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124a-EccentricRods-3-DSC_9697.jpg)

And here it is assembled.  You’ll notice the little brass bushing on one end?  That’s because I mistakenly made both holes 1/8”, but one end needed to actually be 5/64”.  So I Locktited a 1/8” plug in the hole and drilled out the 5/64” :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124a-EccentricRods-4-DSC_9699.jpg)

Now to measure the length we need for the eccentric.

But wait!  To do that I had to put all those little pieces together that I’ve been making! So, I spent a significant amount of time assembling it all.  It was harder than it should have been since this is the first time everything has been brought together, but I did it and it actually came together quite well!

Now, there is quite a little routine you have to do here – adjusting the position of the valve with the nut on the valve rod –you can’t turn the nut because it's locked in place by the valve.  And you can't rotate the valve rod because it's pinned into the rest of the valve gear.  So you have to disassemble the steam chest lift the whole assembly up away from the valve and turn the nut a bit, then reassemble everything. So, it took a while to get everything positioned.

Anyway, after a bunch of faffing about (as our British friends would say), I was able to set the rod length.  The blue tape is just to keep the wheels from turning since you’re supposed to set this at full extension with the valve placed just so.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124a-EccentricRods-5-DSC_9701.jpg)

And while it’s not all done, I thought it was so cool to see all the valve gear moving and doing its job, that I took a video to share with you all.   There's nothing connecting to the radius rod to keep it from flopping around and you can hear that in the video. But it's still pretty cool!  (And sorry for the furnace turning on halfway through the video - that's the price of having your shop in an attached garage!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaJqwxswk6c

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look at what I’ve been doing!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 20, 2022, 03:10:18 AM
Very slick, Kim! There's a ton of work represented in that little video.  :ThumbsUp:

I'm always a bit in awe of Walshaerts and some of the other brilliant engineers back in the day who could work out linkages like that with little more than pencil, paper and a slide rule.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on January 20, 2022, 10:53:44 AM
Looks Great !
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 20, 2022, 11:33:49 AM
You are not far away from a runner Kim! Top notch work. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 20, 2022, 11:39:35 AM
Another great milestone reached - and with a result you really should be happy with  :praise2:

Can you help yourself from Not trying it on air  ;D

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 20, 2022, 02:38:08 PM
I didn't use the setting jig as the same heights can be set with gauge blocks.  Your result looks excellent.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 20, 2022, 02:56:48 PM
Very impressive set of linkages, look to be working great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 20, 2022, 03:31:00 PM
Great progress on this build - and I really admire your long haul staying power! It is a mighty project and fascinating to look back from time to time at prior work done.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2022, 05:32:33 PM
Thanks for all the comments, everyone!  I really appreciate it! And yes, it does feel pretty good to see the mechanism working!   :cartwheel:

I'm always a bit in awe of Walshaerts and some of the other brilliant engineers back in the day who could work out linkages like that with little more than pencil, paper and a slide rule.
Yes, it is amazing the engineering that was done on these beasts!  No computers, no spreadsheets, no CAD - they just did it by hand!

Can you help yourself from Not trying it on air  ;D

Per
Unfortunately, I can't do that until I get eccentric rods on both sides.  But I'm working on that and should have it up soon! (That's soon in MY universe, not in Chris's universe where he has dozens of shop elves working and has those 30 hour days  :Lol:)

I didn't use the setting jig as the same heights can be set with gauge blocks.  Your result looks excellent.
That's a good point!  I'm sure there are many ways to do this - I didn't think about using gauge blocks, but you're right, I essentially made a single-use gauge block! :)

Great progress on this build - and I really admire your long haul staying power! It is a mighty project and fascinating to look back from time to time at prior work done.
Thanks!  Sometimes I wonder if I will have the staying power to complete it.  But I just keep chugging along.  And as long as I am having fun, I'll keep plugging away, one part at a time!

Thanks, everyone!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 21, 2022, 05:04:03 AM
Getting closer Kim and excellent work and presentation….. :Love:




 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2022, 01:31:30 PM
Hi Kim,
I do like all the small details of this build.
There are so many tiny part to make.
Nice to see it coming together.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2022, 05:50:16 PM
Thanks for following along Don and Achim!   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2022, 01:12:32 AM
Now that I’ve got the measurements for the eccentric rods, it’s time to make them.  It turns out that one needs to be about 8 thou longer than the other.  But they are both about 25 thou longer than Kozo showed on the plans.  I guess that’s why he says to measure them and make them THAT size! :)

The eccentric rods were made from 1/8” x 1/4” 1018 flat bar.

The first op was to drill the center for the end holes at exactly my measured values.  I made the holes an interim size so it's easier to hold in a jig.  I’ll drill them out to the final size when the rest of the machining is done.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-01-DSC_9709.jpg)

With that done, I will do the rest of the operations relative to the holes themselves.  That way I don’t have to worry about the actual lengths of the rods.  So here I’m using a gauge pin to center on one of the holes before the next op.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-02-DSC_9712.jpg)

Which is to drill 1/8” holes that help define the rod from the rounded ends.  This is the small end, so it only gets 2 holes.  Since some of these holes are on the edge of the part I used a 1/8” center cutting end mill for this op.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-03-DSC_9713.jpg)

Now, this is the big end.  It has an oil fixture built-in.  So I drilled four holes; above and below the rod, and then to the left and right of the oil fixture.  Again, all holes locations were measured relative to the center of the big-end rod hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-04-DSC_9715.jpg)

And then I drilled the oil hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-05-DSC_9719.jpg)

Now we start to shape the rod.  I used a roughing mill to take down the bigger side some. This is not the final tapered shape, but it gets rid of a bunch of metal before the next step.  Just to help give context I put the part I hadn’t done yet in front of the vise jaws so you can hopefully see the difference between the two.  I also took a little metal off the small end and took the oil fixture to the correct height.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-06-DSC_9724.jpg)

Next, I filed the ends round using filing buttons.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-07-DSC_9727.jpg)

Now to thin the rod section down I mounted it vertically to the jig and peeled off a bit from each side.  This is why I used the roughing mill to take out a bunch of metal.  It just made less to thin here. The picture shows just after completing the first side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-08-DSC_9729.jpg)

With the sides thinned, it is now time to taper the rod.  While this looks like the same jig (and it IS the same hunk of aluminum) I actually drilled a different set of holes that holds the rod at a very slight angle (about 0.46o or so).  Then a few careful passes on each side here and the rod was all tapered.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-09-DSC_9735.jpg)

With that, the rods are complete!  Except, now that I look at the picture I realize I never re-drilled the holes to the final size.  So I’ll be doing that first thing next time!  But that shouldn’t take much effort.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/0124b-EccentricRods-10-DSC_9737.jpg)

I still have a bushing to make for the big end, then it’ll be ready for assembly.

Thanks for checking in on my build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 24, 2022, 01:19:59 AM
Hi Kim

You are making great progress and everything is looking very nice! I have not said much lately but I'm still following along with each update.


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 24, 2022, 01:30:45 AM
It's like watching Kozo do another article!!! that whole thing is coming along splendidly!   I Remember the adjustable link issue quite well.   

She's going to be a nice runnah for sure.    Still following along Kim,

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 24, 2022, 02:02:13 AM
More really nice work, Kim.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2022, 05:16:03 AM
Thanks Dave, Dave, and Ron!  :cheers:

I do believe it will be a runner.  At least, I hope so!  I'm certainly enjoying the build and learning a lot from Kozo's book.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 24, 2022, 06:20:25 AM
Hi Kim,
very nice rods. I do like the finish over all. Smooth surface.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2022, 04:34:25 PM
Thank you Achim!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2022, 10:32:19 PM
Chapter 17.16 – Bushings

Today I made the bushing for the big ends.  It was a super simple turning exercise.  So simple that I didn’t take any pictures.  And now that they are Locktited into place and behind the pins, you can’t even see them.   Ah well…

But with all the valve gear in place, I just couldn’t resist trying to run things on Air!

So, I put the covers on the steam chests and gave it a go.    I was hoping that the radius rods would stay in the lower position even without anything there to hold them down.  Gravity is working in my favor here. :)

And here's the documented evidence; There’s a ton of air loss. Sure, there are no gaskets but the biggest loser is the holes for the cylinder cocks.  Of course, I haven’t made those yet!  So, I took some short 8-32 screws and gently placed them in the 8-36 cylinder cock holes.  I didn’t tighten them very much because I didn’t want to screw up the threads.  Only got a thread and a half of engagement, of course, but it's better than a wide-open hole.  Still quite breezy under the cylinders I can tell you.  But the important thing is, IT WORKS!  :pinkelephant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwfXvRRgMk

Some of the loud clacking you hear is coming from the front wheels tipping back and forth due to the suspension wiggling.  So I taped that down to decrease the rattling.  And while I was doing that I had an idea!  I could tape the radius rods in the UP position, and see if it will run in reverse!  And sure enough, it does!  :cartwheel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bD6Ol3Zah8

While it takes a good bit of air to get things started, I think it will get better when I’m losing less air through the cylinder cock holes.  But I can feel air escaping around the steam valve rod gland too, so those will need some attention on the packing.

But the fact that it runs is just so exciting I can hardly stand it!  I even made my wife step out into the shop to see it go!  :cartwheel: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel:

Thanks for looking and sharing my happiness!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 24, 2022, 10:38:25 PM
Well done Kim! What a milestone, I can totally understand your excitement. Very well done!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 24, 2022, 10:45:05 PM
 :whoohoo:


Excellent!! 


Part of the clicking was probably your grin splitting your face!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2022, 11:07:35 PM
Thanks Stuart and Chris!
Yes, you're right, I did have a face-splitting grin for sure!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 24, 2022, 11:53:46 PM
Excellent Kim! she's a runner! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 25, 2022, 12:02:04 AM
Awesome, Kim! That's a pretty smooth runner right out of the box. Great to see!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 25, 2022, 01:28:05 AM
Awesome Kim, isn’t it great to see it turning? I did notice in the first video that the rear suspension was bouncing up and down. Was it loose because the second video didn’t?

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2022, 05:39:25 AM
Thanks Ron, CRN, and Don!

Yes, it was great to see it running finally!

I did notice in the first video that the rear suspension was bouncing up and down. Was it loose because the second video didn’t?

Well, it's bouncing around like that because I've got it sitting upside down. Normally the weight of the engine would keep the suspension under control so that it only moves with the irregularities of the track.  But being upside down, it just whacks around with every power stroke from both cylinders and makes a terrible racket.  In the second video, I'd added some blue tape to the axel to keep it from pivoting about and it kept it from moving around like that.  That's why you don't see it in the second one. The magic of blue tape! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: wagnmkr on January 25, 2022, 11:41:30 AM
Looks like it will be a good runner. I've watched this one for a while and glad to see the wheels turning!.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 25, 2022, 12:59:04 PM
Very nice indeed.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2022, 05:53:51 PM
Thank you Wagnmkr and Kvom!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 25, 2022, 07:08:32 PM
I enjoyed the videos a lot - so I can only imagine how good it made you feel  :praise2:

Thank you for taking us on this journey with you  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 25, 2022, 08:15:13 PM
Well done Kim :ThumbsUp:       It's a great feeling when it all goes round after all the work.   Lovely             Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 25, 2022, 10:53:26 PM
She's a runnah!!!!! :cheers: :DrinkPint: :drinking-41:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2022, 11:59:00 PM
Per, Terry and Dave,
Thank you all for the kind words and for enjoying this with me!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 26, 2022, 01:06:01 AM
Nice!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on January 26, 2022, 06:50:38 AM
Hi Kim, must be a good feeling the first real life in your build.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on January 26, 2022, 11:21:16 AM
Getting it on air kinda changes everything doesn't it? I got my 1.5" 0-4-0 on air right around Christmas time. A long way to go yet but this milestone makes it seem a lot closer! Great work all along with this!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2022, 05:49:15 PM
Thank you Dave, Achim, and PJPickard!   :cheers:

Yes, it makes it all seem more real for sure!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 04, 2022, 08:37:48 PM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2: You must be happy with that  :)  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 05, 2022, 12:24:42 AM
Thanks Roger!  Yes, I'm quite pleased!  :cartwheel:

It has been a while since my last update and it will likely be some time yet before I continue with my Pennsy Switcher.

I got a new welder for Christmas! A Titanium 200 multiprocess welder - does Stick, MIG, and TIG.  It is also will run on 120 or 240 (Unlimited 200™ Professional Multiprocess Welder (https://www.harborfreight.com/unlimited-200-professional-multiprocess-welder-with-120240v-input-64806.html)).  But I wanted to run it on 220.  So this week has been devoted to that.  I cleaned up one end of the shop (the end with the breaker box) and cleared everything away.  Then I cut a chunk of wall board out of the wall to make it easy for the electrician to install a new outlet for me (this saved me a bunch of money if I did it myself).

Anyway, this morning the electrician came an installed my new 220 circuit for my welder!  But I wanted this to be a full 50A circuit so that I can charge an EV with it if I ever get one (which doesn't seem unlikely the way things are going).  Last time I did this - had someone install a 220 outlet for me, that is - I only had them put in a 20 Amp circuit.  The welder needs 40A.  And I could just kick myself for not going higher when I did it last time.  But I thought - I only need 10A for the lathe and mill that I wanted what more could I possibly need?  Well, now I need a welder. And it wants 40A.

I considered upgrading the one circuit I have now, but decide I'd rather put in a new one this time and future proof it up to 50A.  So I did.  And while I was at it, I had him drop another 110V 20A circuit in for me.  This didn't add too much to the cost so seemed like a good idea.

Anyway, here's a picture of my two new circuits.  Keeping them close to the box kept the cost low.  That #6 wire is NOT cheap!

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/New220CircuitInShop.jpg)

You can see I have already replaced the section of wallboard and will be painting it soon.  Then I'll get things moved back into place.

But my plan is to take some time and play with the new welder :)  Got some little projects planned there too.

So while I'm not working on the Pennsy, I'm still plenty busy!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 05, 2022, 01:41:56 AM
Looks good Kim!
A whole new learning curve heading your way.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 05, 2022, 05:28:28 AM
Nice Kim it’s always a good idea to get the power needed when you install them. But never exceed the limits of the equipment your servicing when installing  power to them. I am surprised you didn’t install them yourself being as close to the box they are.


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 05, 2022, 06:09:00 AM
Looks good Kim!
A whole new learning curve heading your way.

Dave
Yeah, and I'm kinda excited about it! :)
I'll never be a pipeline welder, but my goal is to be at least mildly competent.  Lofty goals, I know!  :Lol:

I am surprised you didn’t install them yourself being as close to the box they are.

Don
Yeah, I gave it serious consideration. But my main concerns were that you needed a permit to put in a new circuit.  And while I could do it, and I could research the current codes and such, I decided it was easier to let someone who knows this stuff and who is licensed and insured do the work.  That way when I go to sell the house (not any time soon, I hope!) I'm not liable if it burns down on someone else, or anything like that! :)

I priced it out too, and for a few hundred above what the parts and permit would have cost me I was able to have a professional do it (and handle the permitting process). It made my life easier and it made my wife happy.  What could be better, right? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 08, 2022, 11:12:12 PM
Well, I've got everything shaken back into place and had a few days to play around with my new toy :)
As you can see from my practice beads, I started with NO abilities here :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_9746.JPG)

After a bunch of practice, I did get a little better and started welding some pieces together, if somewhat randomly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_9745.JPG)

But I got tired of that.  So I tried my hand at welding a cube.  It came out mostly cubic, but the welds are pretty ugly!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_9741.JPG)

I've still got a ways to go before I'm to the level of incompetence I'm hoping for  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 08, 2022, 11:40:09 PM
You're off to a good start, Kim. Remember, not all pretty welds are good welds, and not all ugly welds are bad welds. But you have at least a few stretches that look like both good and pretty welds.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 08, 2022, 11:43:39 PM
Well you have to start somewhere, looks like you are starting to get the hang of it. I'm adding a link to a great series of videos on beginning MIG welding. Lots of great information in them.

Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2022, 05:30:30 AM
Thanks Ron and Dave!
Good videos, Dave, thanks for sharing the link.  I've watched those (and several others) to try to get myself up to speed.

I still need more experience.  So I'll be practicing more!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on February 09, 2022, 11:49:28 AM
Hello Kim,
I am glad I have found this build thread, I have jumped in here to say hello, then I will go back to page 37  :Lol:
Thanks for your efforts with this build, I am going to have ago at the Pennsylvania Switcher, finally got hold of this book plus a couple of others,(hard to find in Aus)   with Kozos amazing book and your build log, beautiful workmanship, I might have half a chance, :)
Probably won't start 6 months, I am still working and, in the TTR mode at the moment. I am a Fitter & Machinist from way back, when we used to build things in Aus, (completed my apprenticeship at International Harvesters ) Geelong Operations,
Only just getting back into hobby machining after 25years lay-off
Cheers Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on February 09, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Pic of welder?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on February 09, 2022, 01:31:29 PM


But I got tired of that.  So I tried my hand at welding a cube.  It came out mostly cubic, but the welds are pretty ugly!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_9741.JPG)

I've still got a ways to go before I'm to the level of incompetence I'm hoping for  :embarassed:
Kim

I have seen worse welds than that on things that get sold for money. It's not easy, is it? However I think there is big improvement between your first welds and your cube, so I'd say your doing fine.

The welder tips and tricks series of videos that Dave Otto posted are tremendously helpful, I think they are the best welding tuition videos on youtube. Keep at it, I think you're doing fine. Being able to join metal together opens up a whole new world of fixturing and  fabrication possibilities. Nice work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2022, 04:10:35 PM
Hello Kim,
I am glad I have found this build thread, I have jumped in here to say hello, then I will go back to page 37  :Lol:
Thanks for your efforts with this build, I am going to have ago at the Pennsylvania Switcher, finally got hold of this book plus a couple of others,(hard to find in Aus)   with Kozos amazing book and your build log, beautiful workmanship, I might have half a chance, :)
Probably won't start 6 months, I am still working and, in the TTR mode at the moment. I am a Fitter & Machinist from way back, when we used to build things in Aus, (completed my apprenticeship at International Harvesters ) Geelong Operations,
Only just getting back into hobby machining after 25years lay-off
Cheers Gary

Hi Gary,
Welcome to MEM! Nice to have you along for the build.  You can learn with me too!  I learn so much from this generous group of people!  Looking forward to seeing your build thread when you start it!  It's certainly a fun project, though rather long-term.  Which is why I'm taking a short break at the moment, doing other stuff.  But I'll be back on it in a bit for sure!

I noticed this was your first post to the forum.  If you could, it would be great to have you post a quick intro in the "Introduce Yourself" sub-forum.  That's kind of our tradition.  That way we get to know you, what part of the world you're from (though you told us that!), and what you're interests are. And that way everyone can welcome you to the group (since not everyone may read my particular build posts :).

Nice to have you along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2022, 04:11:46 PM
Pic of welder?
I've got a Dr appt this morning, so I'll try to grab one this afternoon and post it.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2022, 04:15:03 PM
I have seen worse welds than that on things that get sold for money. It's not easy, is it? However I think there is big improvement between your first welds and your cube, so I'd say your doing fine.

The welder tips and tricks series of videos that Dave Otto posted are tremendously helpful, I think they are the best welding tuition videos on youtube. Keep at it, I think you're doing fine. Being able to join metal together opens up a whole new world of fixturing and fabrication possibilities. Nice work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Thanks, Stuart!  Nice of you to say so :)  I'm re-watching the videos now that I've had some hands-on.  It's surprising how much more it means once you've played with the equipment and seen and heard how it reacts to various things.  It is much more helpful when you have some real-world experience (regardless of how minimal) to relate things to.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 09, 2022, 06:49:07 PM
Welding is much more an art than a science  ::) In the UK there was a general term for beginners work as 'Chicken Shit'. Your cube looks fine to me so you are obviously mastering it  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: When I was doing a lot of welding on my rally car I used to be quite good, twenty plus years later I went to weld up the frame for my horizontal engine and realised how fast these skills disappear  :(
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 09, 2022, 11:14:30 PM
Kim I would say your off to a good start and the welds are reallly not as bad as you think. I am not by far a expert welder either but the tip I got was to listen to the weld if it sounds like a egg frying it’s set correctly and all you to do is pause a few seconds and move stick. For wider welds circle patterns. That’s my two cents worth and it works for my poor welding skills. Like Roger says the skills disappear fast if you don’t do it regulate.

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2022, 01:00:55 AM
Thanks, Roger!  Yes, that's a pretty good description of my weld beads!   :ROFL:

Thank you, Don!

I do appreciate the encouragement!

The other day when I was first starting to play with the welder I really struggled to get a decent bead going.  I finally did, but I did it by ignoring the basic settings recommended in the chart on the machine and just going with what gave me that "bacon frying" sound.  The chart said 105 IPS, but that was terrible - the wire would almost vaporize back to the tip when I used that value.  But I was able to get a kind-of decent weld bead using 160-170 IPS.

So today I was re-watching the Welding Tips & Tricks guys videos (the one that Dave linked to above) one thing I noticed was that he actually has you measure your wire feed speed.  I thought he was doing that because his welder (a Hobart) just has a knob with 1-10 on it for wire speed.  MY welder, now, it tells you the exact IPS on a little LED display!  It can't be wrong, can it?

Well, I spent a couple of hours today just measuring the wire speed feed.  And of course, the displayed number isn't very accurate! Go figure!  At least it seems repeatable!  I made a table of my measured wire feeds.  He has you run it for 6 seconds then measure the length of wire that has fed out.  I did this for a whole bunch of values and was getting a really funny line, then as I got to the higher feed speeds I noticed that the first few seconds went slow, then at about 3 seconds it really picked the pace!  It seems that this welder - the Titanium "Unlimited Pro 200" does a few seconds of slow speed then goes to your requested feed rate.

So I collected a few pieces of data using only a 3-second feed, then with a 9-second feed, and subtracted out the length of the 3-second feed from the length of the 9-second feed.  This gave me a wire feed at the requested rate.  NOW I got a nice linear chart.

And, I learned that the IPS I ended up settling on for my welding the other day (I was using 160-170 IPS on the dial) maps to about 100-110 IPS in real life.  That's mighty close to the recommended setting of 105 IPS, isn't it? :)

Here's a pic of the Titanium Unlimited Pro 200:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-20220209_134844.jpg)

And here's a picture of my new IPS setting to IPS Actual chart I made that I'm going to keep with my welder now.  It looks like it's about 60 IPS off.  If I take the displayed reading and subtract 60 IPS, I should be pretty close!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/Titanium200IPS.jpg)

Anyway, I'm learning a ton, that's for sure.  And getting more familiar with my welder.

Despite this IPS setting issue, it seems to be a pretty decent welder.  It is a multi-process unit and can do stick, MIG, and TIG.  But for now, I'm focused on the MIG part.  I'll leave Stick and TIG for some future time.  But I'm all set when I'm ready to give it a go!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 10, 2022, 01:33:23 AM
Do you wear body armor when shooting wire at 300 inches per second?    :LittleDevil:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2022, 05:36:46 AM
Do you wear body armor when shooting wire at 300 inches per second?    :LittleDevil:

Gene

 :lolb:
Yeah, it sounds insane, doesn't it?  But when it's coming out of the gun, it's really not that fast.  I mean, it's a lot of wire, but it doesn't look that dangerous.  My biggest worry was making sure I kept the 30+ inches of wire away from anything that might be grounded!  :zap:  Luckily, I didn't have any accidental welds happen while I was shooting wire!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on February 10, 2022, 06:11:41 PM
Maybe we should have a thread "beginners welding" that a few of us can throw into. I don't like piling my pics into other peoples build thread, but would be kind of fun to compare notes as we went along.

I like your scientific approach to understanding your welding machine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 10, 2022, 07:29:10 PM
I guess my subtlety was a bit too obscure. How about 300 inches per minute?  :LittleDevil:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 10, 2022, 09:34:59 PM
Kim you should have a manual on this welder page 36. The wire tension could be causing the wire to slip without proper tension on it. These welders should be close to what the dial says. If not consult with the factory rep.  There should be a calibration adjustment for the IPS setting. It’s just finding which one it is when you open the cover. There should be trimmers on the control board a rep can help with that if you find the tension is ok.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 10, 2022, 10:41:53 PM
Kim
20 years ago I remember going through, pretty much, the same procedure for the link blocks on my locomotive.  The Stephenson link valve gear on my loco has been refurbished once since then, and I remember thinking that I might need to make new link blocks… and dreading it. :embarassed:

Fortunately, all I needed to replace were a few swing arms that had dogged out.

Great work you’re doing.  I admire anyone with the stamina to build a live steam locomotive.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2022, 05:49:19 PM
I guess my subtlety was a bit too obscure. How about 300 inches per minute?  :LittleDevil:

Gene
Oh!  You are so right!  What's a little unit confusion amongst friends!  :embarassed:

Yeah, I meant IPM not IPS of course.  Thanks for catching that!  And sorry I missed your point the first time.  It's a case of knowing what I mean, but not seeing what I wrote!  :Lol:

I'll have to fix my chart now  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2022, 05:56:15 PM
Kim you should have a manual on this welder page 36. The wire tension could be causing the wire to slip without proper tension on it. These welders should be close to what the dial says. If not consult with the factory rep.  There should be a calibration adjustment for the IPS setting. It’s just finding which one it is when you open the cover. There should be trimmers on the control board a rep can help with that if you find the tension is ok.

Regards Don

Yeah, I played with those rollers some, and I think it's set pretty well.  And besides, the numbers are quite consistent.  If I was getting that much slippage, I wouldn't think my measured data would line up so well...

I'll have to look into seeing if I can get the IPM disparity fixed.  I agree, it shouldn't be that far off!

Thanks for the suggestion, Don.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2022, 05:59:41 PM
Kim
20 years ago I remember going through, pretty much, the same procedure for the link blocks on my locomotive.  The Stephenson link valve gear on my loco has been refurbished once since then, and I remember thinking that I might need to make new link blocks… and dreading it. :embarassed:

Fortunately, all I needed to replace were a few swing arms that had dogged out.

Great work you’re doing.  I admire anyone with the stamina to build a live steam locomotive.

Thank you, Craig!    :cheers:

Glad you were able to get your loco working again without re doing ALL the valve gear.  That would be quite the chore!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 11, 2022, 10:13:15 PM
Yeah, I played with those rollers some, and I think it's set pretty well.  And besides, the numbers are quite consistent.  If I was getting that much slippage, I wouldn't think my measured data would line up so well...

I'll have to look into seeing if I can get the IPM disparity fixed.  I agree, it shouldn't be that far off!

Thanks for the suggestion, Don.
Kim

You can check it by feeding the wire out and looking for serrations on the wire. Too tight can also cause bad feed rate.


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on March 16, 2022, 11:43:43 AM
Hi Kim,
I am up to page 48 of your fantastic build log!!, so much detail in your thread and really enjoying it, thanks for sharing, you must be very proud of your work,

Thanks Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2022, 02:14:03 PM
Thanks Gary!
Yes, for the most part, though there are some parts I'm more proud of than others :)  But I'm having a lot of fun building and learning, that's for sure!

I'm taking a bit of a forced hiatus from the shop now, so that will give you some time to catch up on the build log.  I'm hoping come mid-April I'll be able to get back out to the garage for some good therapeutic shop time!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 16, 2022, 04:41:54 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
April will be here before you know it Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2022, 08:16:11 PM
Thanks Cnr!  I'm certainly looking forward to it!

I'm halfway there... I saw the Dr for my 4 week checkup yesterday.  He said I was mending well and that I just have to keep up my server restrictions for another 4 weeks.  After that, I'll be allowed to lift up to 20-25 pounds and go back to a normal range of motion.

I'll still have to be careful for another month after that before I'll be able to go back to full weight.  But I think I can do some real work in the shop with the 20-25 pound limit!  No lifting the 8" Rotary Table for sure!  But if I can work with parts and not heft big heavy things around, I can have some shop time.

As I said, I'm really looking forward to that!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on March 24, 2022, 06:06:37 PM
Today I added holes for the cylinder drain cocks.

This wasn’t too hard; drill a #29 hole 3/16” deep:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-1-DSC_8559.jpg)

Drill a hole through to the edge of the cylinder.  I did this at a 15o angle to get it closer to the cylinder head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/088f-Cylinders-2-DSC_8561.jpg)

....

Curious - did you eyeball these dimensions, or were you able to back into them from the drawings somehow? Machining these orifices is not even listed as a step in the instructions!
I'm guessing the 15* holes intersect the very outer edge of the cylinder wall / face intersection like the steam inlet holes do - however I simply can't see this represented in the drawings.
Feels like they must exit there - otherwise you could lock a cylinder ...

As an aside, I remaine in awe of your surface finish. It's a lot nicer than what I've been able to accomplish with my little Taig mill!

I found this part unclear - it's the last machining step I have on my cylinders!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2022, 11:32:10 PM
Hi Matthew,
I had to go check my drawings and notes to see what I did here.  And yes, you're right, it's not super clear in the instructions.  But if you look at the Cylinder Assembly drawing 14-1 (the first drawing attached below) you can see what the goal is.  Like you said, it seems to be to get the drain holes as close to the cylinder heads as possible.

And in one of the drawings in figure 14-3 for the cylinder details (the second attached drawing) shows to drill the drain cock holes 3/16" deep and tap them 8-36 (circled in yellow) and it has a little call out saying to drill the drain hole into the cylinder as #52 (circled in red).  It doesn't tell you what angle, but based on those drawings I calculated a ~15o angle and used that.  It seemed to work out pretty well, as far as I can tell so far anyway :)

Are you posting any updates on your build, Matthew?  I'd love to see where you are and what you've got done.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on April 01, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
...

Are you posting any updates on your build, Matthew?  I'd love to see where you are and what you've got done.

Kim

Thanks! Very helpful as always.
I get so little time to build, I have not been able to carve out time to post much, despite my intentions to give back to the community.

I hope to get these drain cock holes drilled this weekend if lucky (although the weather is getting so much better ...!)

I did the tender from the wheels to only the frame (it rolls and hooks up to the engine). I thought I'd leave the tank for later as I get a little more comfortable with some of the larger fabrications / bending involved in the tank. Although I did do the manual water pump too (that was fun to see work).

I've been doing the engine roughly in the order Kozo prescribes.
Here are a couple shots of the cylinders.
One photo gives folks a sense for what the castings look like (the one on the right has a mandrel through the middle - which extended on the back side and is how I centered it in the chuck for the initial operations.
The other photo shows them as they currently are.


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2022, 10:21:46 PM
Wow!  You are getting very close on the cylinders, Matthew!
They look very good.

Do the castings come completely solid? Or was some of the bore included in the original casting?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 01, 2022, 10:50:57 PM
Nice work on the castings!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2022, 10:39:36 PM
Earlier this week I hit 8 weeks after the operation.  That means (since things are going well :)) that my sternal precautions have been reduced some.  I can now lift up to 20 pounds and can reach above my shoulders and behind my back.  I can now push and pull ‘some’ though not a lot.  They want 4 more weeks before I can start acting normal again.  And I want to be cautious, cause I want things to heal up right and I don’t want to have to do this again.   Once is plenty, thank you very much!  :embarassed:

My plan was to go out to the shop and celebrate my 8-week anniversary with some shop time.  But instead, I spent it working with the city to get the trees in our backyard cleaned up.  Our recent spring snowstorm here in the NW brought down a couple of trees behind our house in some wetlands that are owned by the city.  And we can’t do anything with them, we have to get the city to do it.  The weight of the snow caused a few smallish trees to completely slump over onto our fence and deck.  Luckily, nothing was damaged, but the trees were not going to recover and needed to be removed before they DID damage something.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/IMG_1211.jpg)
Interestingly, the splash of red you see hanging off the edge of the table under the tree branch is actually some pretty tulips that neighbor had brought by the day before.  Spring has sprung and we were getting beautiful daffodils and tulips already! Guess the tulips were the only casualty.  :Lol:

Anyway, that took up one day, then I had an appointment with my Cardiac Rehab another day, and that brings us to – TODAY!  Where I actually DID get to go out in the shop and make some chips!  What fun!

I had been playing with my new welder, but everything related to the welding is heavy.  The welder itself is above my 20lb limit and a lot of the steel I want to play with is heavy too.  Plus, it’s still just TOO cold out to work with the garage doors up.  So, I rearranged my project schedule and moved welding to later in the year, and pulled in some work on the Pennsy.

The next thing up is chapter 18, which covers the reversing gear.  But to mount the reversing gear, you need to get the running boards in place.  So, my next part is:

Chapter 18.1– Running Boards

I’m making the running boards from 1/8” mild steel bar stock (1018).  I started with 1/8” x 1 1/4" steel and cut two pieces about 13.5” long.

These I double-sticky-taped together for the initial operations.  The left and right running boards are the same size and use the same mounting holes.  Beyond that, they have a lot of differences between the left and right sides.

The first op while the running boards are together was to cut the 1 1/4" width down to 1 3/16”.  The running boards are quite long so I ended up milling half the length, then sliding them down in the vice to do the other half.  They just stuck out WAY too far to try and do it in one go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126a-RunningBoards-1-DSC_9754.jpg)


With the width done I then focused on taking it to the specified length of 13 3/8”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126a-RunningBoards-2-DSC_9757.jpg)

And that, while not a lot, was plenty for one day.  I had fun, I got started in my shop again, and I didn’t hurt myself or anyone else! :)  I’m calling that a success!

Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 14, 2022, 11:19:07 PM
Success is just that - no matter if big or small  :ThumbsUp:
Likewise with progress (though one sometimes get impatient) - great to hear that you fell it and that you got a bit of shop time in  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on April 14, 2022, 11:54:30 PM
Good to see you back in the shop! Must be a good feeling.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 15, 2022, 12:24:04 AM
Welcome back to chips and swarf Kim!  :cheers:
The Oregon grandkids had fun with that snow; I'm just as glad to have missed it. :old:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on April 15, 2022, 01:19:27 AM
Good to see your recovery is on the plus side Kim and welcome back to the model world. ……. :ThumbsUp:




 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 15, 2022, 01:22:08 AM
Stick to the small parts, that next month will go quickly.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 15, 2022, 05:10:56 AM
Glad to hear you are doing well Kim! One part at a time was how they built the real engines too.  :cheers:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2022, 05:11:32 AM
Thank you, everyone!  Yes, it's good to spend some time out in my shop, that's for sure! Very therapeutic  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 15, 2022, 07:58:49 AM
Glad to see you are back in the shop  :)  :)  :) Your loco build has got plenty of small pieces to keep you busy  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
Glad to see you are back in the shop  :)  :)  :) Your loco build has got plenty of small pieces to keep you busy  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
That it does!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 18, 2022, 10:16:08 PM
Continuing on with the running boards.

After cutting the running boards to size, I drilled six holes through both parts. These six holes are mirror reflections on the two sides.  The top part here is the left running board, and the bottom one is the right (upside down).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-1-DSC_9760.jpg)

After drilling, I separated the parts and made sure to label them clearly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-2-DSC_9762.jpg)

I drilled a few additional holes in the right-side running board and then made countersinks for the screw heads.  I had to be careful – some were countersunk on top and some were countersunk on the bottom.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-3-DSC_9763.jpg)

The left side was slightly more complex.  It had holes in different places than the right side, and of varying sizes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-4-DSC_9766.jpg)

It also has a notch taken out of the side to provide clearance for the reversing lever.  Unfortunately, I miscalculated the location for one side of that notch, and the first pass was too wide.  I fixed it after that, but the damage was done (see the red arrow).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-5-DSC_9768.jpg)

I considered just ignoring it, but it was just too ugly.  I doubt you’ll even be able to see it when things are all put together, but it was still ugly.  Since this is just a clearance notch, I decided to make it a little wider.  Again, it will likely never be seen, but it looks so much better without what is clearly a mistake.  Now nobody will know it’s a mistake unless they measure it and compare it to the plans. (or read this build log! :))

And here are the completed running boards:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/126b-RunningBoards-6-DSC_9770.jpg)

The next parts will be the brackets used to hold the running boards onto the frame.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 19, 2022, 02:40:26 AM
As Stewart Hart used to say at bottom of his posts, "a little clearance never got in the road"  :Lol: That'll work for the notch too!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Like Rolls Royce used to say about HP in their cars, your notch has "adequate" clearance now!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 19, 2022, 05:10:24 AM
Thanks, CNR!  Yeah, that's a good philosophy!  I like it  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 20, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Glad to see you back in the shop.  Like Chris says, just work on the small stuff for  a while.  There is lots of ‘small stuff’ on a live steam locomotive.

You also don’t want to build too ‘tight’ as is mentioned above,  A good friend of mine, a tool and die maker by trade, built a northern, and when he finished it it wouldn’t stay on the track.  He is used to making parts accurate to the thousandth and the engine was just too tight.  He had to go back in and introduce some ‘slop’ so every little piece of dirt didn’t bind up the running gear.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 20, 2022, 10:01:43 PM
Thanks Craig!
Yeah, I'm really enjoying getting to go out to the shop these days!  And I've got a lot of small parts to work on, as you say :)   :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2022, 10:31:55 PM
Chapter 18.2– Support Plates and Brackets

To hold the running boards in place, we need to make some supports and brackets.  We’ll start with the support plates.

These were fabricated from some 0.090” steel sheet and 1/8” x 1/4" 1018 steel bar.  I cut them and squared them up to a little oversized.  We’ll trim it down after silver soldering.  Then drilled and tapped 1-72 holes to hold things while soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-01-DSC_9774.jpg)

All set up on the soldering station!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-02-DSC_9777.jpg)

After soldering, I took a skim off the top to make things flush and trimmed the brackets to size.  I was pretty heavy-handed with the torch on this one and melted one of the brass screws.  I’ll fill that hole with JB-Weld.  It should hold up to powder coating just fine.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-03-DSC_9780.jpg)

Here they are all trimmed to size – well, mostly.  I carefully trimmed it to 1 1/4" width.  But what I really need is 1 3/16”.  Ah well.  I fixed that after this picture when I detected my mistake (which I noticed when I held the part up to the running board it will be mating with and noticed that the bracket was too wide!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-04-DSC_9784.jpg)

Here I’m drilling the holes that the rear of the running board will screw into.  I tapped these 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-05-DSC_9786.jpg)

Then on its side, I drilled and countersunk holes where we’ll screw into the bracket which will hold the lower end of the support plate to the footplate (the back of the chassis).  Notice how the parts are mirror images of each other?  That’s why I’ve marked all over them.  Trying to keep straight which one is left, and which is right.  The lower holes are actually offset toward one side (opposite sides depending on which part).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-06-DSC_9788.jpg)

The top of the support plates are wider than the lower part.  So I cut the lower end to the correct width (1 3/32”).  Notice I have the two support plates held together here – back to back – so the left and right sides are still getting cut correctly (I hope!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-07-DSC_9790.jpg)

Then put a little angle on the edge.  I calculated this to be just about 5 degrees. So I used a 5o angle block.  I also had to use some fancy packing on the sides because of the supports' irregular shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-08-DSC_9792.jpg)

But it worked pretty well.  My 5o approximation came out just a tad short. But that’s plenty close enough. I'm happy with this.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-09-DSC_9795.jpg)

And here are the completed support plates.  (Well, I still need to fill in that hole, don’t I? :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/127a-SupportPlates-10-DSC_9797.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 22, 2022, 07:50:10 PM
The remaining item for attaching the running boards is a little bracket. This will connect the support plate (that we just made) to the chassis.

I started with a length of 5/16” square 12L14 bar stock.  This stuff machines like butter!  The first step was to carve away 80% of the stock to make an angle bar:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-1-DSC_9801.jpg)

After squaring up the ends, I placed a set of holes that will be threaded.  These will receive the screws from the support plate. Note – I’m making two brackets here – one on each end of the angle bar.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-2-DSC_9803.jpg)

Flipping the part over,  I made the corresponding holes that will attach to the chassis.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-3-DSC_9806.jpg)

Next, I sliced it in half on the band saw and milled it to length.  And here are the two completed brackets:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-4-DSC_9808.jpg)

After assembling it all, here’s a close up of how the bracket and support plate go together to hold the running board:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-5-DSC_9810.jpg)

And here’s the family shot of everything completed on the switcher to date:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/128a-Brackets-6-DSC_9812.jpg)

Next, we start the reversing gear proper.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 22, 2022, 08:06:22 PM
Really changes the appearance, nice!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 22, 2022, 08:35:35 PM
With the running boards in place you could test it at the local skate board park. :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 22, 2022, 10:50:51 PM
You might only be allowed to do small thing for a while - but it certainly makes a difference + progress  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:   ..... hmm .... where is the  :popcorn:  now we are back on track again.

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 23, 2022, 04:30:26 AM
All A Board!  :Lol:

Looking great!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 23, 2022, 06:54:31 AM
Thanks, Chris, Ron, Per, and CNR!
Always appreciate the comments.   :cheers:

And as Craig always says, thanks also to everyone who just stops by to check in on my ever-so-slow progress!  I do appreciate it! 

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 25, 2022, 10:10:55 PM
Chapter 18.3– Stand and Quadrant

Kozo calls these parts the stand and the quadrant. These two pieces are mainly made out of 0.080” sheet steel. He specified 5/64” as the thickness for these, but I couldn’t source any 5/64” sheet steel (0.0781”) so I went with the 0.080” sheet.  That’s close enough.

First, I cut the blanks out of the sheet using the horizontal band saw in vertical mode.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129a-StandAndQuadrant-1-DSC_9815.jpg)

After making the edges parallel I marked it up and drilled the major holes.  I used the DRO to find the location of all the holes; the mark-up is just a sanity check.  I find doing this helps me avoid frustrating errors - not avoid them completely, mind you, but it sure helps!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129a-StandAndQuadrant-2-DSC_9819.jpg)

Here are the parts after drilling, ready for shaping.  The bigger one on the left is the upright part of the stand, and the short flat one on the right is the quadrant.  The small piece of bar below the stand (1/8” x  3/8” 1018 bar) is the base of the stand.  We’ll be attaching that later. The two big holes provide the radius of the upright to the underside of the quadrant arc.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129a-StandAndQuadrant-3-DSC_9822.jpg)

I also made a jig for holding this part for the next ops.  It’s a 1/2" x 2” piece of aluminum that I’ve used for dozens of other jigs.  So, most of those holes won’t apply here.  There’s a 1/8” pin that is the center for the quadrant arcs and two #1-72 Socket Head Cap Screws holding the part down and in alignment for cutting the arcs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129a-StandAndQuadrant-4-DSC_9826.jpg)

And next time, I’ll be starting with cutting those arcs!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 26, 2022, 12:20:44 PM
Nice start on the stand!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2022, 04:52:00 PM
Thanks CNR!
I'll see if I can make some more progress on it today :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2022, 10:14:10 PM
Continuing on with the stand.

I got the rotary table all centered up, centered the jig on it, and cut the outside radius for the top of the stand.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-1-DSC_9829.jpg)

Next, I cut the inside radius – this isn’t a complete arc since it is interrupted by the upright part of the stand.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-2-DSC_9833.jpg)

With the radius parts cut, I put the rotary table back to where it started, with the centerline of the part parallel to the X-axis. Then offset the Y-axis and cut one side of the stand.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-3-DSC_9834.jpg)

After repositioning the clamps, I did the other side the same way.  Now, this shot shows a distinct absence of clamps but there was one there when I did the cut.  I just removed it for the picture since it blocked everything of interest in the shot!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-4-DSC_9836.jpg)

Now to cut the bottom of the stand to the correct length.  This finishes up the machine work on the stand.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-5-DSC_9838.jpg)

Now to the quadrant.  I put it in the same jig as the stand.  However here there wasn’t enough to clamp without getting in the way of the cutting tool.  So I relied on the two 1-72 screws to hold things in place and just took very small cuts.  It worked out just fine.  Here’s after completing the top and bottom arcs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-6-DSC_9840.jpg)

I didn’t get a picture of this, but I used some 0.200” filing buttons on the ends of the stand and the quadrant and rounded off the ends of the arc.  After that, I tapped the two holes in the quadrant (2-56), and here’s the completed pic:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129b-StandAndQuadrant-7-DSC_9844.jpg)

The quadrant is complete, but the stand isn’t quite done yet.  I still need to make the base and silver solder it to the stand.  I’ll leave that for the next installment!

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2022, 10:21:50 PM
Nicely done. Hey, CNR, pass the popcorn!!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2022, 10:26:36 PM
Thanks, Chris! :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on April 26, 2022, 11:35:12 PM
Cunning use of the rotary table! I like that set up.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 27, 2022, 12:35:25 AM
Super nice work, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 27, 2022, 05:23:42 AM
Thanks Stuart and Ron!  :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 27, 2022, 12:21:06 PM
Great work with the rotary table Kim! nicely done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Here's some more popcorn for Crueby ---> :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 27, 2022, 01:07:11 PM
Great work with the rotary table Kim! nicely done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Here's some more popcorn for Crueby ---> :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 27, 2022, 03:45:33 PM
It's so nice of you all to share.  That's what I love about this place!  :Love:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2022, 08:37:14 PM
Now to complete the stand.

I trimmed the little piece of 1/8” x 3/8” bar stock to length, then cut a 5/8” notch out of it to fit the upright.  You can see the upright piece laying in front for test fitting.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-1-DSC_9847.jpg)

Then drilled and tapped a couple of holes (1-72) for holding during soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-2-DSC_9849.jpg)

And finally, I drilled and countersunk the holes for attaching the completed stand to the running board.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-3-DSC_9850.jpg)

Now I’m all set up for silver soldering.  I used the Harris Black flux this time.  I think that works better with steel since it takes longer to get it all up to temp.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-4-DSC_9854.jpg)

After a pickle and clean up, I realized that I soldered the base upside down :(  The countersinks are supposed to be on the TOP, not the bottom :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-5-DSC_9868.jpg)

So, I just made countersinks on the top too.  And nobody will see the bottom anyway :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/129c-StandAndQuadrant-6-DSC_9859.jpg)

And that about does it for the stand and the quadrant.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 29, 2022, 10:51:18 PM
Steady progress; very nice Kim.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 30, 2022, 04:08:43 AM
I'm pretty sure the c'sinks on the bottom are to make sure the stand clears any "paint radii" or "thread dimple" at the threaded holes where it goes, aren't they?  :naughty:  :Lol:

Nice save! Great looking parts.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2022, 05:22:39 AM
Thanks, Craig and Cnr!
I'm pretty sure the c'sinks on the bottom are to make sure the stand clears any "paint radii" or "thread dimple" at the threaded holes where it goes, aren't they?  :naughty:  :Lol:
Yes, that's EXACTLY why there are countersinks on the bottom!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on April 30, 2022, 06:19:22 AM
Hello Kim !!
 From 2018 to 2022: quite a long way
  Lots of posts , pictures , time , ,,... as well as the table of contents in your first post , It's really great !
    Thank you for sharing .
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2022, 03:39:45 PM
Thanks, Minh!
Yeah, it's been a journey for sure.  I've learned a lot along the way, which is what makes it fun!
And I've probably got about as far to go as I've come.  But I keep plugging away, one part at a time, and eventually, I'll get there! :)

Thanks for looking in on my build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 30, 2022, 09:04:23 PM
How Fun Flies when you have Time .... How Times Fun when you have Flies .... Æh ... Øh ... Åhh ....

Crazy to think that it has been Four Years already - hope that you enjoy making and dokumenting just as much as we do following your progress Kim  :praise2:    :cheers:   Hm ... where where the  :popcorn:

Per

ps    thank you very much for sharing - and I'm aware that there a more here that this applies to, too  :Love:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2022, 09:21:27 PM
How Fun Flies when you have Time .... How Times Fun when you have Flies .... Æh ... Øh ... Åhh ....

Crazy to think that it has been Four Years already - hope that you enjoy making and dokumenting just as much as we do following your progress Kim  :praise2:    :cheers:   Hm ... where where the  :popcorn:

Per

ps    thank you very much for sharing - and I'm aware that there a more here that this applies to, too  :Love:


"Times Fun When You're Eating Flies"
                     Kermit The Frog
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2022, 10:19:50 PM
Thanks, Per :)  Time really has flown by!

How Fun Flies when you have Time .... How Times Fun when you have Flies .... Æh ... Øh ... Åhh ....
"Times Fun When You're Eating Flies"
                     Kermit The Frog

... or... "Times fun when your playing with Files!"

Kim







Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 30, 2022, 11:00:44 PM
And in Japan, they might say "Tempus Fujitsu".  :thinking: :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2022, 05:15:10 AM
And in Japan, they might say "Tempus Fujitsu".  :thinking: :Lol:
Huh... you lost me on that one - I looked that up in google translate and it says "Attachments False".  I know... it's not funny when you have to explain the joke...  :embarrassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 01, 2022, 02:19:36 PM
And in Japan, they might say "Tempus Fujitsu".  :thinking: :Lol:
Huh... you lost me on that one - I looked that up in google translate and it says "Attachments False".  I know... it's not funny when you have to explain the joke...  :embarrassed:

Kim
Try looking up Tempus Fugit...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on May 01, 2022, 03:45:05 PM
 Hi Kim !
 One more question : how did you have the patience and motivation to do this project ??
  I am a fan of steam locomotives one day I will make one for myself and your thread built definitely is a book that I need to refer to and learn from.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 01, 2022, 03:49:48 PM
Sorry for any confusion Kim, as Crueby pointed out, it was a a play on the latin tag "tempus fugit" meaning time flies.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2022, 04:52:26 PM
Sorry for any confusion Kim, as Crueby pointed out, it was a a play on the latin tag "tempus fugit" meaning time flies.  :cheers:
No problem!  I figured it was some humor that went past me.  Now I'm all caught up! 

And it is funny, now that I understand Guess I need to brush up on my Latin!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2022, 04:55:28 PM
Hi Kim !
 One more question : how did you have the patience and motivation to do this project ??
  I am a fan of steam locomotives one day I will make one for myself and your thread built definitely is a book that I need to refer to and learn from.

Well, I've done lots of smaller projects and it really feels no different.  I just consider each piece as its own mini-project.  So I finish a project or two every week!  And each of the mini-projects fit together to form a larger project!

Anyway, that perspective works for me :)  :ThumbsUp:

You would have no problem doing a steam loco, Minh.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on May 01, 2022, 05:09:55 PM
 Hi Kim !
Quote
Well, I've done lots of smaller projects and it really feels no different.  I just consider each piece as its own mini-project.  So I finish a project or two every week!  And each of the mini-projects fit together to form a larger project!

Anyway, that perspective works for me :)  :ThumbsUp:
Kim

   That's a good and interesting of perspective !!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
 Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 01, 2022, 10:08:51 PM
Chris - I knew it was Kermit the Frog - I just didn't look it up, as I never intended to write it as it was originally done (Illustration of Memory Limits  ;) + Humor) .... but I still love the original Kermit quote  :Jester:  and Kim's own interpretation of my message was even better than mine  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2022, 10:22:50 PM
I dunno Per, they were all pretty good!  :Lol:


Chapter 18.4 – Reverse Lever

The reversing lever is fabricated from two parts – the lever and the handle.

I started with the handle, turning it from some 5/32” steel rod.  The handle is a weird shape and I just free-handed it with some files to get the basic shape I wanted.   After that, I used a grooving tool to turn a short post on the end, just the right size for threading 1-72.  This is just to hold it in place during the soldering process.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-01-DSC_9870.jpg)

With that simple task done, I took some 1/8” x 5/16” steel and drilled a series of holes on the centerline.  One is for connecting to the linkage (furthest left), a 1/8” reamed hole for the lever pivot (the center hole that I just finished reaming), and a #49 hole for the latch pivot (it’s been spotted on the right, but not drilled yet).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-02-DSC_9872.jpg)

After cutting the part from the parent stock, I flipped it on end and drilled a hole in the center on the end, then tapped it 1-72. This will receive the handle made above.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-03-DSC_9875.jpg)

To shape the lever I used my jig block on the rotary table.  I centered the RT then centered the 1/8” hole on the RT. Next, I offset the RT by my calculated amount (2.43o) and cut the taper on one side of one end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-04-DSC_9878.jpg)

Then I moved the RT by the same amount in the opposite direction (-2.43o) and cut the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-05-DSC_9880.jpg)

After moving some clamps, I then did the same thing to the other end of the lever, only I used 2.65o instead of the other angle.   Here’s one side done.  Still have one to go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-06-DSC_9881.jpg)

With the angles cut I used some 0.200” filing buttons to round off the end of the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-07-DSC_9885.jpg)

Then I silver soldered the handle to the lever:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-08-DSC_9889.jpg)

After cleaning up from the soldering work I drilled and tapped a 0-80 hole on the side of the lever.  This will be for securing the latch lever (the part that will be coming up next!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-09-DSC_9896.jpg)

And here’s the completed reversing lever:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/130a-ReverseLever-10-DSC_9893.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 03, 2022, 12:18:57 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

(this reply certified to be Latin free) :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on May 03, 2022, 01:33:36 AM
Excellent - that is very fine work! Got to love the result.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2022, 05:10:41 AM
Thanks CNR and Stuart!

And thanks for getting the Latin Free certification.  Sorry if that cost extra.  I'll try to study my Latin so you don't have to keep forking out for that certification!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 03, 2022, 09:16:43 PM
 :cheers:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 04, 2022, 12:25:04 AM
Outstanding work Kim,  I had to back track it’s been a while since I checked. Your soldering skills are a plus also.  :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 04, 2022, 05:10:32 AM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2022, 10:36:44 PM
Chapter 18.5 – Latch Lever

Today I completed the latch lever.  This is the little hand lever that is on the top of the reverse lever that engages with the notches in the quadrant to lock the reverse lever into specific spots.  It’s a tiny little piece that takes a lot of work!

The latch lever started as a 1/4" x 5/16” piece of steel bar stock (1018).  I started with a piece 4 inches long even though the part is less than an inch in length.  I needed that to hold onto the part!

First op was to drill a little #55 hole.  This will eventually be for the latch lever pivot holes.  But for now, it will serve as the datum for forming the rest of the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-01-DSC_9898.jpg)

With the datum defined, I ran a gauge pin through the hole and used that to center on.  I made this the zero point and did all machining from there.  I started with the stock held at a 15o angle.  This allowed me to define the tab that stick up from the lever.  I wanted to thin the front and back of the lever at this time too.  I got the front done (at least as much as I could in this setup) but when I went to do the back part it became clearer that I’d cut through the stock before I got to the depth I wanted.   Hmmm… not what I’d planned.  I must have done my original calculations with a 1/8” mill rather than the 1/4” that I actually used.  Regardless, this setup wasn’t going to cut it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-02-DSC_9903.jpg)

So, I changed setups, re-clocked in the part using the same datum (of course), and finished taking the back of the lever down to the necessary level.  You can see that I didn’t actually cut through the part here, but it was REALLY close.  The white stuff on the bar stock is some thick tape I was using to help it get more of the clamping force from the vice.  The stock is 1/4” but my angle blocks are also 1/4” wide.  This tape gave enough extra width to the part that it got clamped tightly rather than the angle block.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-03-DSC_9904.jpg)

Here’s the part so far compared to the desired end product.  You can see the basic shape of it here, but clearly, we’ve still got some work to do!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-04-DSC_9907.jpg)

The next setup was with the part held at a 4o angle to get the thinning of the longer lever side.  My plan was to take off that triangle of metal there on the front of the part.  However, as I started making some really light cuts it was clear that I wasn’t holding onto enough material to keep the part in place.  So another plan was required.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-05-DSC_9911.jpg)

I decided to hold the part on the side of the vice.  I also sticky-taped it to a 1/4" wide bar to help hold it in place.  And made judicious use of the tape to make the part thicker than the supporting packing material.  And used VERY light cuts!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-06-DSC_9913.jpg)

This worked great and I was able to bring the lever taper down to where it was supposed to be.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-07-DSC_9914.jpg)

Now, flipping the part around and holding it at a 15o angle, I cut the back side of the lever off to the correct length, using the same datum to determine the end of the lever.  I also took off the extra length on the top of the pivot tab.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-08-DSC_9918.jpg)

Now, to separate the two ears of the latch lever pivot.  For this setup, I was able to hold the part deeper in the vise.  And I went back to the 4o angle to match the lever handle taper.  And using a 1/8” mill I cut the notch between the pivot tabs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-09-DSC_9921.jpg)

To complete the ear separation, I had to repeat this operation to clean up the back end of the notch to the same level as the back of the lever.  So, back to 15o and I cut a little tringle of steel out from the base of the tabs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-10-DSC_9923.jpg)

The final milling operation on this part was to bring the width of the lever down to 1/8” wide.  I did this using a 1/8” mill and cutting down both sides of the skinny part of the lever and holding the part at 15o.  The part was SO small at this point and I was holding on to such a little amount of it I added a little clamp to help keep the part in place. Of course, I had to move the clamp to the opposite side to cut the back edge of the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-11-DSC_9925.jpg)

Here’s the latch lever still attached to its supporting bar.  And still with some of that sticky tape on it…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-12-DSC_9928.jpg)

After removing the tape I opened one side of the pivot holes to #52, which is a close fit for a 0-80 screw, then tapped the other side (for 0-80, of course!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-13-DSC_9930.jpg)

Now for the finishing touches.  I used files to round off the pivot tabs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-14-DSC_9933.jpg)

Then filed the top of the lever round.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-15-DSC_9935.jpg)

And THAT, my friends, completes the lever latch!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/131a-LatchLever-16-DSC_9939.JPG)

That is one tiny piece that took a lot of setups. But it was actually quite fun to do!  I found it a really rewarding challenge!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2022, 10:39:41 PM
Chapter 18.6 – Spring

The next part was the spring for the latch lever.

It was made from a small piece of 0.010” spring bronze.  I used a small pair of shears to cut this little strip, then did some filing on it to get the rough edges off and to take it to the final shape.  Then drilled the mounting hole, rounded the end, and bent it, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/132a-Spring-1-DSC_9942.jpg)

Here’s what it looks like placed on the lever handle under the lever latch.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/132a-Spring-2-DSC_9943.jpg)

And because it was so fun,  I had to take a short video of it working to show you all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-MGllx5K5c


Thanks for looking in on my ever-so-slow progress!
Kim

PS  Man, they've done something funky with the You Tube Video links... I used the SAME "copy link" button that I've used before, but the link it gave me didn't work. I know other's have had the same problem lately.  I finally got it to work by actually playing the video on YouTube (not from my Library view) and then using the 'share' button below the video while it was playing.  It gave me a different URL and THAT one worked.  Just weird....
The URL that doesn't work has the "?feature=share" at the end and is called 'shorts'.  The full URL is: https: //youtube.com/shorts/_-MGllx5K5c?feature=share
The URL that DOES work is: https: //youtu.be/_-MGllx5K5c
(I added a space between the https:  and the rest of the URL so it didn't turn into a video). 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 05, 2022, 10:48:18 PM
Great work on small items Kim  :ThumbsUp:  .... but I can't see the video  :shrug:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2022, 11:01:37 PM
Thanks Per!

Try again now.  After my big PS rant about the YouTube video issues, I left the wrong URL in place.  Sorry about that!

I think it should work now.

Thanks for letting me know!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 05, 2022, 11:59:08 PM
Terrific!  Video is working too.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 06, 2022, 12:04:30 AM
Great looking latch and spring! I see you did some spring cleaning. (the spring looks spotless!)  :Lol:

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 06, 2022, 12:42:33 AM
Super nice work on a fiddly little bit, Kim. Nothing says "locomotive control" more than the Johnson bar with a tidy latch lever on top. Even more than the throttle lever, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2022, 12:43:20 AM
Thanks Chris and CNR!
Yes, I did my spring cleaning!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2022, 12:44:01 AM
Thank you Ron!
I am unduly pleased with that little latch lever!  It works a treat!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2022, 09:27:15 PM
Chapter 18.7 – Pin and Collar

These are very small parts and were pretty quick, so not many pictures.

First up was the pivot pin for the reverse lever.  It was made from 1/4" 12L14 rod.  Just a simple turning exercise.  Here the part is completed and I’m just cutting it off the parent stock.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/133a-PinAndCollar-1-DSC_9948.jpg)

The next part was also a lathe part – the collars.  Now, I would have called these spacers, but Kozo calls them collars. Go figure.  Anyway, they’re just little donuts to hold the two parts of the quadrant together around the reverse lever.

I cut these from the same 1/4" 12L14 rod.  They were super simple.  The only wrinkle here is that I have a difficult time cutting something off the lathe that is a specific width.  I can get it +/- 5 thou or so, but I have to change tools from facing to cut-off and so end up eyeballing, or more likely, using the fingernail test to set the cut-off tool with the end of the rod.  I can get pretty close, but there’s always some wiggle room there.  So, what I did was to cut them off a little oversized, then file them down to the specified 0.127” (which would be a sliding fit for the 1/8” reverse lever).  But it can be hard to file a little round thing like this.  So what I did was to drill a close fitting hole in a little scrap and use that to hold the spacers while I filed them.  It worked a treat!  I’ll be using this again.  I’m sure I didn’t come up with this on my own, I’m sure I’ve heard others doing this – probably someone on this forum!  But I can’t remember who or where.  Anyway, it worked great!
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/133a-PinAndCollar-2-DSC_9950.jpg)

Here’s the little set of parts I made today, the pin and the collars (spacers).
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/133a-PinAndCollar-3-DSC_9959.jpg)

And here they are all assembled with the reverse lever assembly.  You can see the pivot pin is held with an e-clip. And you can see the two spacers on either side of the quadrant.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/133a-PinAndCollar-5-DSC_9954.JPG)

Also, note that the latch lever doesn’t go all the way down like it should. That’s because I haven’t cut the little notches in the quadrant.  That can’t happen till I get all the reverse linkage mechanism in place and can locate the correct locations for the notches.
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/133a-PinAndCollar-4-DSC_9955.jpg)

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 07, 2022, 03:12:33 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on May 07, 2022, 09:09:48 AM
Kim, a lots of fiddling work with this lever. Looking great.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2022, 03:34:49 PM
Thank you CNR and Achim!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 07, 2022, 06:23:22 PM
Very nice assembly Kim - another box ticked off  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2022, 09:53:51 PM
Thanks Per!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2022, 10:01:17 PM
Chapter 18.8 – Reach Rod

The reach rod is a long rod that connects the reverse lever back in the cab, to the reverse linkages up toward the front of the engine.  It’s a fairly simple concept but to complicate it just a tad, Kozo shows making it in two pieces that screw together.  That way you can adjust the length of the rod a little bit by shaving off at the joint rather than having to re-do the ends of the rod.

The rod is made from 5/32” 12L14.  The short end of the rod was turned down and I cut 3-56 threads in it.  Unfortunately, the plan called for 3-48.  I don’t know why I used 3-56.  Guess that's the die I came across first?  :embarassed:  Anyway, that’s OK as long as I remember to tap the mating hole 3-56 rather than the 3-48 it shows on the plan!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-1-DSC_9961.jpg)

I moved the rod out a bit in the collet and cut the ‘short end’ off at about an inch.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-2-DSC_9962.jpg)

While I had the 5/32” rod set up in the lathe I started the long part of the rod too.  This end was drilled and tapped 3-56 (YES!  I did remember!)  I then moved the rod out another 8 inches and cut it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-3-DSC_9965.jpg)

On the outer ends of the two pieces just made, I flattened a short length to 5/64” wide and drilled a hole in the end.  I made the hole #49 since that is what works with the filing buttons I’ve already built.  I’ll open the holes up to 5/64” after the ends are rounded.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-4-DSC_9970.jpg)

Now I'm rounding the ends using the aforementioned filing buttons.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-5-DSC_9974.jpg)

Here’s the two-part reach rod, showing the component parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-6-DSC_9976.jpg)

And a shot with the two parts assembled.  You can see the joint on the left end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/134a-ReachRod-7-DSC_9977.jpg)

And another part down!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 08, 2022, 01:16:18 AM
Quote
Anyway, that’s OK as long as I remember to tap the mating hole 3-56 rather than the 3-48 it shows on the plan!
If you haven't already done so, I would make a pencil note on the plan RIGHT NOW! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 08, 2022, 05:48:01 AM
Quote
Anyway, that’s OK as long as I remember to tap the mating hole 3-56 rather than the 3-48 it shows on the plan!
If you haven't already done so, I would make a pencil note on the plan RIGHT NOW! :ThumbsUp:
Thanks Ron!  That's a good idea.  Fortunately, that's already behind me and I DID remember to use the 3-56 tap!

Thanks for following along and for helping me out! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 10, 2022, 05:53:45 PM
Excellent work on the lever  :)  :)  :)  :ThumbsUp: Are you still restricted to light work?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 10, 2022, 09:22:06 PM
Thanks Roger!

Well, today is a big anniversary for me - it's 12 weeks exactly from the date of my surgery.  So as of today, I'm able to start (slowly - so says my wife) expanding my range of motion and my weight restrictions and such.  I'm excited about that! But it will likely be a while till I'm back to pressing 250 lbs!  (Not that I could even do that before the surgery!  :Lol:)

I'm certainly feeling very much back to normal now.  I've really noticed feeling better overall and more energy over the last few weeks.  So I think things are going great!

Thanks for asking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 10, 2022, 09:29:06 PM
Chapter 18.9 – Reverse Shaft

Today’s project was the Reverse Shaft.  This shaft runs left to right across the engine to convey the position of the reverse lever to both sets of valve gear linkages.  It has a strange bent shape because it has to go under the boiler.  The reverse shaft only moves about 90o, otherwise, this wouldn’t work!

The shaft is made from 5/32” round rod.

Because of its bizarre shape, Kozo’s recommendation for making the part is to draw a 1:1 scale picture of the shaft and to bend it, by hand, till it matches that picture. He does provide some instructions on how to do it, but I found his instructions somewhat lacking (which is unusual for Kozo). He does say to start by drilling a 5/32” hole, 15/16” deep in a piece of metal, and use that to bend the initial corners of the part. This will keep the ends flat and free of bends - an important part of this shaft working!  So I started with that, and it worked pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/135a-ReverseShaft-1-DSC_9984.jpg)

Here’s the shaft sitting on top of my 1:1 drawing after I got the main bends at each end in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/135a-ReverseShaft-2-DSC_9981.jpg)

Now, the remaining part – the arc in the middle – that was harder.  I ran out of places to hold or things to push against.  So here I came up with an idea to make a little bending tool out of a scrap of aluminum.  I drilled a 3/16” hole in one end of the scrap and used it as a pry bar to make bends in strategic locations.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/135a-ReverseShaft-3-DSC_9987.jpg)

It actually worked pretty well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/135a-ReverseShaft-4-DSC_9990.jpg)

And while the whole thing wasn’t THAT hard, the challenge was in keeping the rod co-planer so that the two straight ends of the shaft were on the same axis.  That took a lot of fiddling and tweaking.  But I got it pretty close – hopefully, close enough.  Guess we’ll see!

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 11, 2022, 12:44:41 AM
That turned out nice Kim!
Reminds me of doing the displacer rod for my Essex hot air engine, sometimes the 1:1 drawings come in pretty handy. :ThumbsUp:

Still following along but not saying enough.
Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 11, 2022, 12:48:14 AM
Clever idea, that bending bar! The part matches the drawing really well, too, more than "close enough for gummint work". :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2022, 02:31:36 AM
Thanks Dave and Ron!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 11, 2022, 02:37:44 AM
Nice looking Bendinizer 3000 ! the bent part looks great too.  :cheers:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2022, 05:25:46 AM
Thanks CNR!
Yeah, I ordered the Bendinizer 3000 from ACME*.  I considered getting the Bendinizer 2000, but I went all out and decided on the 3000.  It's so rewarding to use quality tools!   :ROFL:

Kim


*ACME is where Wile E Coyote got all of his stuff for trying to capture the Roadrunner! :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on May 11, 2022, 01:43:06 PM
Great work there Kim, some real fiddly little parts there, I like you round bar bending jig, done the business

Thanks Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2022, 02:04:36 PM
Thank you Gary!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on May 11, 2022, 10:00:46 PM

Well, today is a big anniversary for me - it's 12 weeks exactly from the date of my surgery.  So as of today, I'm able to start (slowly - so says my wife) expanding my range of motion and my weight restrictions and such.  I'm excited about that! But it will likely be a while till I'm back to pressing 250 lbs!  (Not that I could even do that before the surgery!  :Lol:)

I'm certainly feeling very much back to normal now.  I've really noticed feeling better overall and more energy over the last few weeks.  So I think things are going great!

I guess you and I can commiserate together.  Like you, things are getting a bit better every day.

I’ve said this before but… building a live steam loco is not for the quitters.  This is a multi-year dedication of time and resources.  I’ve been following along, though I don’t often comment.  You’re doing a fantastic job. 
 :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2022, 10:20:41 PM
Thank you Craig!  I appreciate the encouragement!  ;D

Hope your recovery continues as well as mine has.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 11, 2022, 11:04:06 PM
The ACME stuff's great! The coyote always had the best gadgets and merchandise from them.

Re bench pressing numbers before / after surgery - I still say "I'll be pressing 250 again soon" after my neck surgery but I don't mention that means 250 grams, not pounds. The power of the metric system!  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 11, 2022, 11:25:47 PM
The ACME stuff's great! The coyote always had the best gadgets and merchandise from them.

Re bench pressing numbers before / after surgery - I still say "I'll be pressing 250 again soon" after my neck surgery but I don't mention that means 250 grams, not pounds. The power of the metric system!  :Lol: :cheers:
After my thumb tendonitis healed it was getting back to 12 ounce curls! Or 16 ounce for the bottled stuff...   :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2022, 12:26:15 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :cheers:

The 6 dose cure / cold snack therapy as my Dad used to say.  :DrinkPint:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on May 12, 2022, 06:11:35 AM
My current recovery is the 4th day locked in a hotel room in Germany after a positive covid  test.  I've had time to catch up on this and other threads.  No symptoms.  Hoping to test out today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 12, 2022, 01:41:57 PM
Sorry to hear that Kvom - didn't know that the Germans still have Isolation requirements ..

To you all - have a quick recovery  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2022, 03:56:59 PM
Sorry to hear that KVOM.  Hope you aren't feeling too poorly and that you get that negative Covid test soon!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on May 12, 2022, 10:57:18 PM
My current recovery is the 4th day locked in a hotel room in Germany after a positive covid  test.  I've had time to catch up on this and other threads.  No symptoms.  Hoping to test out today or tomorrow.

Well that is awful news, very sorry to hear it and I hope you test negative very soon. Sounds like your not actually sick so that's something good.

Side note - was going to ship your rotary table today but I'll wait until I know you are on the way back.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 13, 2022, 10:21:05 PM
Chapter 18.10 – Reach Rod Arm  and Reverse Arm

Next up were the Reach Rod Arm and the Reverse Arm.  These arms will go on the reverse shaft (just made) and translate the forward/backward motion from the reverse lever, to an up/down motion for the radius rods (which move up and down in the expansion links).

These arms are grouped together because they are very similar.  The main difference is that the Reach Rod Arm (of which there is only one) is shorter than the Reverse Arms (of which there are two).

I started with some 1/4" x 3/8” 1018 bar stock.  First, I shaved it down to 0.200” in thickness, taking a little off each side to reduce warping.  Then I sliced it into 3 parts for the 3 arms.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-01-DSC_9992.jpg)

Next, I drilled the holes in the ends.  These define the arms.  I made one hole #49 (clearance for 1-72 screw) and the other 1/8”.  These will both be opened up and reamed as the last operation.  But for now I want these sizes to make monting it in a jig easier.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-02-DSC_9995.jpg)

The bigger end has some additional holes.  First, it needs a 1/16” hole through it for an eventual pin which will lock the arm to the reverse rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-03-DSC_9997.jpg)

Next, I put a 3-48 tapped hole in the end.  This is for a temporary set screw to help in setting the location and angle for the arms on the reverse shaft.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-04-DSC_9998.jpg)

For this step I made a little jig that holds the arms at the appropriate angle for tapering the sides of the arms.  There are two different holes – one for the shorter Reach Rod Arm and one for the longer Reverse Arms. Using this jig I tapered one side of the arm:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-05-DSC_0002.jpg)

Then I flipped the part over and tapered the other side of the arm.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-06-DSC_0004.jpg)

For the final shaping I used filing buttons to round off the ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-07-DSC_0007.jpg)

Finally, I cut the slit in the small end to accept the mating part it will be moving.  These cuts need a little additional clearance so Kozo has you cut the slit at an angle (different angle for the two different types of arms).  The Reach Rod arm shows an angle of 60o.  I used angle blocks to set this.  It’s hard to stack up multiple angle blocks like this – they always slide around.  So I used a thin strip of double-sided tape to hold them together during setup.  Now, the angle I made here was actually 64o.  The additional 4o makes up for the slope of the side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-08-DSC_0010.jpg)

I removed the angle block stack once the vice was tightened down. The little strips of brass are just spacers to prevent the angle blocks from being the things that get clamped.  The angle blocks are 1/4" wide and the part itself is only 0.200” wide.  With the packing it makes the part wider than the angle blocks so I’m getting the clamping force where I want it (and it allows me to slide the angle blocks out of the way during machining).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-09-DSC_0013.jpg)

Finally, I reamed the holes to 5/32” and 5/64”, respectively.  And here are the completed arms.  The longer two are the Reverse Arms and the shorter one is the Reach Rod Arm.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/136a-ReverseArms-10-DSC_0016.jpg)

Just a few more parts to go to complete the reversing assembly.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 13, 2022, 10:24:34 PM
More great parts....    :cheers:    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 13, 2022, 10:36:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 14, 2022, 12:12:21 AM
Having never used angle blocks, my first thought on seeing that picture was "...what?...". But your process makes good sense once described. Nice work as always. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 14, 2022, 12:14:48 AM
 :Love:..  :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2022, 05:19:48 AM
Thanks Chris, CNR, Ron and Don!  :cheers:

Yeah, the stack of angle blocks can be unwieldy.  I'm sure the angle gets a little off when you tape them together like that, but this was only for a clearance cut, so +/- a few degrees didn't really matter :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on May 14, 2022, 07:59:05 AM
Be aware that by reversing an angle block you subtract the angle instead of adding it.  You can also make good quality blocks stick together by squeezing the air between them out, just like gage blocks.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2022, 03:49:16 PM
Be aware that by reversing an angle block you subtract the angle instead of adding it.
Good point, Kvom! I'm pretty sure I got them all in the intended direction.  But that's good to remember!

You can also make good quality blocks stick together by squeezing the air between them out, just like gage blocks.
Well, that may speak to the quality of my angle blocks. They're the best cheap imports money can buy!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2022, 10:08:31 PM
Chapter 18.11 –Reverse Shaft Bearings

Today’s task was to tackle the Reverse Shaft Bearings.  These are little triangle-shaped brackets that mount to the guide yokes and hold the curved reverse shaft in place.

The reverse shaft bearings were made from some 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 bar stock.   I started by taking a short length of it and taking the 1/4" width down to 0.200”.

Then I drilled and reamed the bearing hole for the reverse shaft.  I’m making two of these bracket/bearing things in one piece here – one on each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-1-DSC_0017.jpg)

Then flipping it on end,  I drilled and tapped some 3-48 holes for mounting the brackets.  I did this to both ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-2-DSC_0019.jpg)

With all the important holes completed it was time to slice the two brackets apart.  Everything that happens after this is purely cosmetic.  It’s the position of the holes that matters in this piece.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-3-DSC_0023.jpg)

I held the part with a 15o angle block to taper one side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-4-DSC_0025.jpg)

Flipping it over, I now held it in place with a 30[usp]o[/sup] angle block to get a 15o angle on the other side.  (I slid the angle bracket out of the way when I was doing the milling!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-5-DSC_0029.jpg)

All that was left was to use some filing buttons to help file the narrow end round.  And here are the completed bracket/bearings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-6-DSC_0034.jpg)

Test fitting them in place looked good!  You can see about how things will look.  None of the arms are fixed in place yet, they are just swinging freely on the shaft.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-7-DSC_0037.jpg)

Here’s another shot of the reverse shaft bearing, just for fun.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/137a-ReverseShaftBearings-8-DSC_0039.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 15, 2022, 03:22:16 AM
Great looking parts and craftsmanship Kim. Love the zero clearance on the band saw.._ :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 15, 2022, 04:56:32 AM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Minh Thanh on May 15, 2022, 05:44:02 AM
Hi Kim!
  I like the way you "interact" with people.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
 Thank you for that .
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 15, 2022, 03:50:33 PM
Thanks Minh!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 15, 2022, 06:17:38 PM
The bracketry looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2022, 10:41:20 PM
Thank you CNR!  :cheers:

Chapter 18.12 – Radius Rod Hangers

After the bearing/brackets, I made the Radius Rod Hangers.  These are the connecting link between the Reverse Arm and the Radius Rod.

These were made from 1/8” x 1/4" 1018 steel bar. I took 3” of stock and thinned it to 5/64” thick.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/138a-RadiusRodHangers-1-DSC_0042.jpg)

After cutting that in half, I double sticky taped the two pieces together and then drilled two #49 holes on the centerline, exactly 1 11/32” apart.  These holes will be used to hold the part on the jig. They will later be reamed to 5/64”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/138a-RadiusRodHangers-2-DSC_0043.jpg)

On my small part holding jig I made holes at the four inside corners of the hangers using a 1/8” center cutting end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/138a-RadiusRodHangers-3-DSC_0046.jpg)

Then milled both sides down so that the center portion was 1/8” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/138a-RadiusRodHangers-4-DSC_0050.jpg)

Next up was the filing button.  I didn’t include a picture of that. I’m sure you’ve seen plenty of filing button shots. If not, look back a few posts and you’ll find one there :)

After rounding the ends the parts were done:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/138a-RadiusRodHangers-5-DSC_0053.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2022, 10:43:11 PM
Chapter 18.13 – Pins

The final parts for the reversing assembly are some pins.  These will hold the hangers to the reverse arms and the radius rod.

These were made from 3/32” 12L14 rod.  I turned a short length down to 5/64” then used my smallest grooving tool (1/64”) to cut slits for e-rings.  Here’s one complete, being cut off the parent stock:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/139a-Pins-1-DSC_0056.jpg)

And here are all four of the pins.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/139a-Pins-2-DSC_0058.jpg)

Interestingly, the plans say you need four of these.  But counting in the assembly drawing for the reverse gear I will clearly need six of them.  Guess I’ll be making a couple more.

I also noticed in that ultra magnified shot there that I need to file the pips off the end of the pins.  I clearly never remembered to do that.   Those parts are so small it's hard to see!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 21, 2022, 12:36:15 AM
Rather than filing the pip off, often I like to turn parts like that around in the collet and face the pip off. Then both ends look exactly the same, and the time and effort is about the same. Nice pins either way!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 21, 2022, 12:42:14 AM
Those look great! 

Are you going to make your own e-clips too? Either way, make/get extras, those little things just LOVE to fly across the room and behind furniture!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on May 21, 2022, 02:39:38 AM
Nice work! All good progress.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 21, 2022, 04:38:23 AM
Thanks Ron, Chris, and Stuart!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2022, 01:25:54 AM
Chapter 18.14 – Setting Reverse Arms

The next part is setting the reverse arms in the correct position.  Kozo gives info on WHERE the arms need to be set, but not really HOW to do it.  He says to set the arms 112o from the curved reverse shaft and shows a picture of it, but I didn’t find that very helpful.  I spent a lot of time trying to work out how to do this.  Eventually, I used some cardboard angle templates that I made for helping to set angles on my grinder and this seemed to work out the best.

Then once you get the reverse arms set, you have to set the reach rod arm at a certain angle from those.  It took a while, but I got it close enough and tightened up the set screws.

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-1-DSC_0060.jpg)

I set things up, tried it out and it seemed to give me the necessary range of motion (at least, once I got all the parts to fit together – this was the first time most of them had been assembled!)  I’m sorry to say that MANY e-clips were lost during this operation.  Luckily, I’d purchased a package of 100, and I’m pretty sure I still have a few left. :/

After that lengthy but necessary check, I carefully drilled the 1/16” hole through the shaft and pinned the arms in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-2-DSC_0064.jpg)

The pins are a friction fit, and I tried to peen over the ends a bit to help them stay in place. Then I carefully ground down the ends of the pins flush using a Dremel.  I removed the set screws also since they are really only used to hold things in place till the pins are added.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-3-DSC_0065.jpg)


Chapter 18.15 – Setting Reverse Gear and Cutting Notches

Kozo provides very good, very clear instructions on how to set the quadrant notches for the reversing lever. 

After re-assembling the reverse arms and shaft I trimmed the reverse rod to length and cut the center notch on the quadrant:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-5-DSC_0074.jpg)

I had to remove the steam chest covers to align the vales with the correct places to put the other notches in the quadrant.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-4-DSC_0070.jpg)

And here’s after I cut all the notches in the quadrant.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-6-DSC_0077.jpg)

Oddly, the latch doesn’t seem to be sitting in the center notch properly in this picture.  I’ll have to check on that.  But it seems to click in pretty well at all notches, as can be seen in this short ‘reverse lever demonstration’ video :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIlnlewyBpg

Finally, here’s a full family shot of everything done to date:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/140a-SettingReverseGearAndCuttingNotches-7-DSC_0081.jpg)

But I just couldn’t resist hooking up the air and giving it a try with the reverse lever in place.  It works pretty well.  But you can detect some galloping in there. Still need to tweak the valve adjustment a bit, but I’ll probably wait till after I paint and re-assemble before I do that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbGOmL8hJdY

I’m going to be taking a break from the Pennsy for a bit and start working on my welding project again. I think I’m up for that now! :)

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2022, 01:40:36 AM
Kim, that's excellent!  Very crisp clean parts, self starting in both directions, your making great progress.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 25, 2022, 02:24:26 AM
That's really awesome, kim. Isn't a good Johnson Bar one of the funnest toys ever? (well, OK, maybe I'm exaggerating just a little). Welding is fun too, enjoy! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 25, 2022, 02:40:12 AM
Looks great Kim!
Very nice work.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on May 25, 2022, 02:42:56 AM
Just wonderful - great work!

EDIT:I keep saying things like that because I am so impressed I can’t think of anything else to say. Sorry - a bit repetitive I know but I really am enjoying this build log.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2022, 04:59:38 AM
Thanks Chris, Ron, Dave, and Stuart!  :cheers:
Appreciate the comments.  And encouragement NEVER gets old! (or repetitive!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JCvdW on May 25, 2022, 05:25:19 AM
Thanks Kim for this detailed and inspiring build log! Apart from Kozo's book, this will become a very helpfull reference in (my) future!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 25, 2022, 11:28:11 AM
Impressive result and a major Milestone Kim  :praise2:

Per

ps   do not weld yourself to the table  :mischief:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on May 25, 2022, 11:44:41 AM
Awesome work there Kim!! you would have been very happy seeing all that had work spinning around !!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on May 25, 2022, 12:27:11 PM
Hi Kim, that’s a great milestone, and a great place to take a break to get something else moving before you tackle the next bit.  Boiler perhaps? 

I really like the way you present each part as it’s own separate project.  Definitely gives a much better of how much amazing work is involved in getting a locomotive complete.  Your work is amazing.

Enjoy the break, but I will be following along with that one too.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on May 25, 2022, 01:02:35 PM
Big milestone there  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 25, 2022, 01:10:40 PM
Great running engine Kim! well done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2022, 02:15:20 PM
Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement!

MJM, I think the next mini-projcet on the Pennsy is drain cocks.  Then the oil pump, and after that, I'm not sure. I think there are still a few things before we get to the boiler. But it's coming right up!  (well, sometime in the next year or so  :embarassed:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 25, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Awesome Kim your craftsmanship is top notch buddy.   :Love:




 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: pmerritt on June 09, 2022, 05:48:07 AM
Wonderful work Kim! I have really enjoyed this build log. Thank you for all the extra effort you put in so we can all enjoy the ride!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on June 09, 2022, 09:46:31 AM
Definitely no need to be embarrassed, Kim.  You are doing amazing work.  It’s a big project and taking a break for whatever reason is almost certainly a positive in some ways.

When you come back to it, we will all be here ready to continue following along.

In the mean time, I’m enjoying your side project.

MJM460



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2022, 04:55:24 PM
Thanks, Pmerrit!

Thank you MJM!
Yes, I',m having a grand time with my new side project.  It's kind of reinvigorating to be working on something different for a bit!  But I'm also looking forward to getting back to the Pennsy, too!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on July 06, 2022, 02:11:27 PM
This is looking excellent Kim, Im looking forward to getting back on my own project once my lathe is back in action
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 06, 2022, 05:12:16 PM
Thank's Sam!

I'm back on this project now, but starting out slow.  It's amazing how much time I spend thinking about a part and planning my sequence of operations for these tiny parts.  With the belt grinder I just churned out parts much more quickly.  But the tolerances were a lot less stringent.  But it's all fun!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 10, 2022, 10:25:47 PM
This week I started back on the Pennsy, with the next major subassembly being the Cylinder Cocks.  They sound so easy, but there's quite a bit of mechanism to these since they have linkages that allow you to open and close the cocks from the cab.

Chapter 19.1 – Cock Bodies

The first part of the Cylinder Cock assembly is the cock bodies themselves.  They are made out of bronze. I used 932 bearing bronze, which machines really nicely.

The smallest bronze I purchased was 3/8” nominal – which is really more like 0.412” I had to use a 27/64” collet to hold it. So first I turned it down to the specified 0.200” for the main cock body, then turned down the last 1/8” for 8-36 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-01-DSC_0450.jpg)

Then I drilled the main drain hole. This had to be deep enough to get close to the bottom of the drain cock, but not break through.  I had to trust my math on this one.   :o
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-02-DSC_0453.jpg)

The last step on the lathe was to narrow down the ‘bottom’ part of the cylinder cock and make a little taper, then cut it off from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-03-DSC_0459.jpg)

I made four of these.  The picture on the left shows where we’re headed.  Still have two holes to drill crossways. The big one goes all the way through and is where the actual on/off valve will go.  The lower smaller hole only goes in halfway to connect to the central drain hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-04-DSC_0466.jpg)

To get these cross holes in the correct position, I fitted all four of the cock bodies in place on the cylinders.  It was hard to get these in tight since there was nothing to grip on, and I didn’t want to use anything that would mar them.  With them in position, I tagged them with a 1/16” number punch so that I could get them all back in the same spot.  To mark the location for the holes, I colored an area with a black permanent marker, then used a small flat file to gently rub along the front leaving a very small mark at the correct location.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-05-DSC_0471.jpg)


To drill these holes I followed Kozo’s directions and made a little jig to hold the cylinder cock bodies. There’s a ~0.200” hole in the side where you slide the cock body into, two holes on top for the locations of the two cross holes, and a set screw on the side to hold the cock in place. My additions to this little jig were to use a small spring behind the cock body so it would push out against my stop that I would position exactly 1/8” from the side of the jig. This made positioning the cock body much easier!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-06-DSC_0474.jpg)

Here’s what the jig looks like in use.  You can’t see the spring, but it’s in there behind the cock.  The two 1/8” chunks of aluminum being held by the clamp are used to set the position of the top of the cock.  I used tweezers to rotate the cock till I could see the witness mark and would adjust that till it was as close to centered on the holes as I could get it, then tighten down the set screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-07-DSC_0481.jpg)

And now, drill the two holes. For the larger hole (the one I’m drilling in this picture) Kozo specifies to ream it to 0.100”.  My problem with that is it’s hard to come by 0.100” rod in the states.  I chose to make it 0.0938” (3/32”) which is readily available, and pretty close to 0.100”.  So I drilled the holes with a #43 drill.  The other hole was drilled with #56 with the depth CAREFULLY controlled since it only needed to go halfway through to meet the other central hole in the cock body.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-08-DSC_0483.jpg)

After I did that for all the cocks, I went back through, lined them each up again, and reamed the large hole to 3/32”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-10-DSC_0490.jpg)

And here’s how the cock bodies look now:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/141a-CylindarCocks-09-DSC_0489.jpg)

The next part up is the cock plugs that go through the cock bodies and actually open and close the cocks.

Thanks for looking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 10, 2022, 10:30:42 PM
Nice!    :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 10, 2022, 11:01:10 PM
Those look great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 10, 2022, 11:09:32 PM
Thanks Chris and CNR,
Getting a roaring start here, eh?  :Lol:
Kim

PS We need a snail emoji!  I could use that :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 10, 2022, 11:52:23 PM
Nice work Kim. That's a clever idea to add a spring to the drilling jig. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 11, 2022, 11:12:06 AM
Great to see you back on the Pennsy Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Love your descibtions - very informative  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on July 11, 2022, 12:44:01 PM
Great to see you back on the loco Kim. (but I certainly did enjoy your side trip with the belt grinder!)

Clever idea with the spring.

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on July 11, 2022, 01:45:32 PM
Top work as always - love the fixturing approach for the production run of components!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2022, 04:10:03 PM
Thank you Ron, Per, Joe, and Stuart!  :cheers:

Today is family celebration day at our house (daughter's birthday), so no shop time ...  maybe later in the week?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 11, 2022, 05:59:01 PM
An interesting build of some very small but functional valves  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: You don't want to lock the cylinders with condense water  :(

Long ago I drove a Sentinel steam wagon which had a steam foot brake (like an air brake system). The problem was that if it hadn't been used for a while the steam just condensed and you got no braking  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2022, 07:16:53 PM
Thanks Roger!

Long ago I drove a Sentinel steam wagon which had a steam foot brake (like an air brake system). The problem was that if it hadn't been used for a while the steam just condensed and you got no braking  :facepalm:

That seems kind of dangerous!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on July 11, 2022, 10:46:02 PM
the drain valves look great they are essential to get the steam trough the cylinders to get them hot before starting and of course if water is picked up when running ,and when stopped keep the cylinders hot .
John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2022, 07:49:55 PM
Thanks John!

Chapter 19.2 – Cock Plugs

After the cock bodies, the next parts are the Cock Plugs.  These are the valve part of the cock – turn them one way and the holes line up and open the drains, the other way and the hole is crossways and closes off the drain.  They also have a short lever that allows you to turn the plug the required 90o to open and close the valve.

I started by making the short lever part of the cock plugs.  These are quite small.  I wanted to make them from stainless steel but you can’t get 303 stainless in flat bar.  So I made it from 3/8” round bar.  Here I’ve cut the basic shape of the lever, and drilled and reamed the holes:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-01-DSC_0494.jpg)

Then I used a slitting saw to slice off four pieces to make the levers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-02-DSC_0498.jpg)

With the parts sliced off, I rounded the ends on the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-03-DSC_0501.jpg)

Then shaped and cut the pins for each end.  This is one of the longer pins – it’s the actual valve pin that passes through the drain cock body.  It will eventually have a hole drilled through it for the valve.  But I won’t drill those holes till I get the rest of the mechanism built so I’m sure I’m putting them in the right place!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-04-DSC_0505.jpg)

Here are all the pieces for the four cock plugs before they are silver soldered together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-05-DSC_0508.jpg)

And now, for the soldering process…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-06-DSC_0510.jpg)

I forgot to take a picture of the assembled parts before installing them, but here they are installed in the cylinder cocks, with e-clips holding them in place.  The ones in the foreground are mostly in focus but the two in the other cylinder are way fuzzy.  Sorry about that.  Do note that the whole engine chassis is sitting upside down for this picture!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/142a-CockPlugs-07-DSC_0519.jpg)

And that finishes up the cylinder drain cocks themselves.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2022, 07:57:35 PM
Chapter 19.3 – Links

The next parts are the links that connect the fore and aft drain cocks.  These were made from stainless steel sheet which seems to only come in 304.  Not nearly as nice to work with as the 303, but it’s what I could find.

I cut two pieces of 1/16” 304 sheet to approximate size and sticky taped them together.  Then I drilled the pin holes in each end:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/143a-Links-01-DSC_0529.jpg)

Next, I mounted it to my little jig block and used a 1/8” end mill to narrow down the link.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/143a-Links-02-DSC_0533.jpg)

With that done I used filing buttons to round the ends.  And here are the completed links:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/143a-Links-03-DSC_0535.jpg)

And now mounted into position.  In this shot, the link in the back is in focus, and the one in front is blurry.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/143a-Links-04-DSC_0536.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2022, 08:07:39 PM
Chapter 19.4 – Arm Shaft

The Arm Shaft is a super simple part, just a length of 1/8” steel rod.  It will eventually have several lever arms attached to it that will move the cock plugs.  But for now, it’s just a straight rod:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-01-DSC_0543.jpg)


Chapter 19.5 – Arm Shaft Bearings
And to hold the arm shaft, we need a pair of arm shaft bearings.  These were made from 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 CRS.  I cut two pieces of 1018, double-sticky-tapped them together, trimmed them to length on the mill, then drilled & reamed the bearing hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-02-DSC_0548.jpg)

After rotating the parts in the vise, still ganged together, I used the mill to bring the bearings to the basic shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-03-DSC_0550.jpg)

Then I rounded the end using the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-04-DSC_0553.jpg)

Back to the mill, I centered things on the 1/8” hole then drilled the mounting holes on either side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-05-DSC_0557.jpg)

Here are the two completed Arm Shaft Bearings:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-06-DSC_0558.jpg)

And here they are mounted on the underside of the chassis holding the arm shaft.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/144a-ArmShaftBearings-07-DSC_0565.jpg)

And that brings my build thread up to date!  Thanks for checking in on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 16, 2022, 08:09:26 PM
Great set of parts, super clean!


And how many of those teensy e-clips went Ping across the room and behind a cabinet?   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2022, 08:15:35 PM
And how many of those teensy e-clips went Ping across the room and behind a cabinet?   :Lol:

...a few...  :embarassed:

Luckily, they came in little baggies of 100, so I think I'm still OK, even though I'll have to reassemble it later  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 17, 2022, 08:56:58 PM
Always top notch parts Kim love the work…. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on July 18, 2022, 12:26:57 AM
Great work Kim, enjoying your journey Pennsy,  how are you finding your new 2 inch belt finishing machine,??
Need to watch your finger tips with them little pieces :)

Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 18, 2022, 02:29:19 AM
Drain cocks look great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

A dirty trick for working with tiny e-clips - place a piece of transparent cling wrap over your hands and the work, until the clips are in place. That way if a clip makes a break for the outer universe it hits the underside of the cling wrap and drops back down. Much like a cell phone kicked by a donkey hitting the underside of a circus tent. (don't ask)  :Lol:
   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2022, 03:51:01 AM
Drain cocks look great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

A dirty trick for working with tiny e-clips - place a piece of transparent cling wrap over your hands and the work, until the clips are in place. That way if a clip makes a break for the outer universe it hits the underside of the cling wrap and drops back down. Much like a cell phone kicked by a donkey hitting the underside of a circus tent. (don't ask)  :Lol:
 
Oh, but we are all asking!    :noidea:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2022, 05:40:14 AM
Thanks Don, Gary & CNR,

how are you finding your new 2 inch belt finishing machine,??
Need to watch your finger tips with them little pieces :)
True enough! :)
But actually, the belt sander is so solid and smooth that the parts stay in place and I don't feel in too much danger from the belt.  I can also run the belt slower for these little parts so it doesn't take the metal (or my finger) off so quickly.

My biggest problem is that these little parts get hot SO quickly!  I have to be very careful of the heat!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2022, 05:41:22 AM
A dirty trick for working with tiny e-clips - place a piece of transparent cling wrap over your hands and the work, until the clips are in place. That way if a clip makes a break for the outer universe it hits the underside of the cling wrap and drops back down. Much like a cell phone kicked by a donkey hitting the underside of a circus tent. (don't ask)  :Lol:

Great idea with the cling wrap!

So, as Chris said... We are asking...  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2022, 12:04:13 PM
Sounds like the sander needs a cup holder for some water to dip parts in. Then a towel bar to dry them...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 18, 2022, 03:15:01 PM
Like the towel bar idea, but a hot air dryer might be safer to dry parts- just had a mental pic of the towel going round and round the sander!  :Lol:

Re the circus tent / cell phone thing - here's what happened: A few years ago my wife and I took our little nieces to a local mini circus / fair event. One tent had several donkeys from a local donkey shelter / rescue place. Outside the tent there was a BIG sign warning to keep cell phones in bags or pockets and turned off. Apparently one donkey had suffered some kind of trauma involving a ringing cell phone. It was quite clear on the sign that a ringing phone would be stressful / harmful to one of the donkeys.  Anyway we went inside the tent, and met the donkeys. The little girls just loved it. The donkeys loved to be patted and fussed over and the girls were given carrots to give as treats to the donkeys. Everyone was having a great time.  Next thing you know, we hear a cell phone ring, and a 20 something guy a few people ahead pulls it out of his pocket  ::). I just heard a loud "hee-yaw" from Dinah the donkey, and a small "clop" sound, and next thing I see is this goof's cell phone flying toward the tent "ceiling"   :o. It hit, dropped down to the floor of the pen, and got stomped by all 4 donkeys in the pen. Dinah calmed down and all was OK, except for "Mr Entitled Cell Phone" whining about his lost phone. Apart from the stress on poor Dinah the Donkey, and the fact someone could have been badly hurt, it was pretty funny. I don't think the guy with the phone realized he could have been very seriously hurt by any contact with a kick from Dinah. Apparently Dinah was an expert high precision kicker and probably hit the phone within a 1 inch margin of the goof's fingers!

So that's the story behind the comment!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 18, 2022, 03:59:58 PM
 :lolb: :ROFL: :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 18, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
THAT is a great story, CNR!  Love it! Glad that everyone was OK!  Guess some people can't be bothered to read signs, eh?  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 21, 2022, 11:07:34 PM
Chapter 19.6 – Arms

Next up is a series of arms used to open and close the drain cocks.  There are three different arms.  The one we’ll be focusing on today Kozo calls the ‘fork’ arm since it has a fork on one end that hooks over the pin on the drain cock valve and uses that to open and close the valve.

There are two of these little dinky things.  I made them both from a 1” piece of 1/4" square 12L14 – one on each end.  Making them together like this just gave me a little more to hold onto for machining.

After thinning one dimension down to 0.200” I further thinned the very end to 5/64”  - this will be the ‘fork’ end eventually.  (After this, I did the other side, of course.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-1-DSC_0568.jpg)

Then I drilled and reamed the 1/8” hole for the arm shaft.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-2-DSC_0571.jpg)

And close to the end, I drilled a 5/64 hole and used a 5/64” mill to open a slot from the hole to the end of the part.  This is the fork that will capture the pin on the drain cock valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-3-DSC_0574.jpg)

To make the sloping edges I used some angle blocks to stack up 7o and took the corner off of each side of each end of the block.  Unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture of this.  I really thought I had, but I can’t find it, so I must not have. :(

Next, I used a slitting saw to separate the two pieces.  (You can see the sloping edges in this picture, so I really did do it!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-4-DSC_0578.jpg)

And I made a little jig to round the end of the arm on the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-5-DSC_0581.jpg)

It was at this point I realized I had intended to drill the cross hole (for pinning to the arm shaft) BEFORE I cut the part in half. Oops… so I figured out how to do that and did it later than I’d intended to.  And forgot to take a picture of it.

But I DID get a picture of me drilling and tapping a hole for a temporary 1-72 set screw in the end of the fork arm – in the WRONG place. :facepalm:  It should be centered, but I set the hole to be 0.100” from the edge.  That is the center for the OTHER direction.  This direction it’s actually 1/4" wide so the center would have been 0.125".  My hole was off by 0.025”.  Ah well... the temporary set screw will still work.  It just looks a little wonky.  But there won’t be a set screw there permanently, just while I’m setting the locations of the arms on the arm shaft.  It won’t be very noticeable so I’m not going to bother to re-do it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-6-DSC_0587.jpg)

And here are the two completed fork arms.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-7-DSC_0589.jpg)

Then I put them in their place on the arm shaft. (I see one of the e-rings has popped off.  I didn’t even notice that till I was looking at this picture to type out my update! – or maybe it’s one of the ones that got away?  Guess we’ll see!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-8-DSC_0592.jpg)

Here’s a zoomed-out shot showing both fork arms on the arm shaft.  They seem to do their job – capturing the valve pin and moving it through the full required range of motion!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145a-Arms-9-DSC_0597.jpg)

It was getting hot out in the shop and this seemed like a good time to call it a day.  There are more arms coming up in my future!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 22, 2022, 12:13:06 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 22, 2022, 01:09:02 AM
More clean crisp tiny parts!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I like the little jig for rounding the piece on the sander, have to make that for mine next time!

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 22, 2022, 05:20:37 AM
Thanks CNR and Chris,

I like the little jig for rounding the piece on the sander, have to make that for mine next time!

It's just an aluminum scrap with a 1/8" hole and a pin stuck in it. Then I clamped it on the table at the correct distance from the belt.  I used a little pair of pliers to rotate the part, that way I didn't get my fingers in there too close to the belt! It worked surprisingly well and was quite easy to do.  A LOT easier than a filing button for sure. And setup was way easier than the rotary table :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 23, 2022, 12:43:46 AM
The next arm for this assembly is just a tad longer than the fork arms and also mounts onto the arm shaft.  It will impart the rotation to the arm shaft to make it do its job.

This arm was also made from 1/4" square 12L14 but only one was required.

The process was very similar to the previous arms just made.  I started by thinning the piece to 0.200” then drilling and reaming the two holes:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145b-Arms-1-DSC_0601.jpg)

I drilled a cross hole for the pin and tapped a 1-72 hold in the big end.

I had something different I wanted to try on this arm though.  Rather than mill the angled sides I decided to make the tapered sides using the belt sander.  This is essentially connecting the two radiused ends and it seemed like that should be quite doable using the same rounding jig as I used before.  Now, I did have to update the jig with a 5/64” hole for the small end (and make the hole closer to the edge of the jig!).  But it seemed to work quite well.  Here I’ve rounded the big end but only one side of the small end – and one of the angled sides too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145b-Arms-2-DSC_0605.jpg)

Here’s a shot of the completed part:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145b-Arms-3-DSC_0607.jpg)

And in place on the arm shaft.  Again, those brass screws will be removed after I add the pins – which I’ll do after the rest of the assembly is in place and I can verify the location and angles for all the arms.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145b-Arms-4-DSC_0611.jpg)

That’s it for today’s update.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 23, 2022, 02:05:39 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 23, 2022, 11:32:20 PM
Thanks CNR!  ;D


The last of the arms is a bell crank.  This “L” shaped arm doesn’t fit on the arm shaft but has its own spot above the arm shaft where it translates the horizontal motion of the lever to the vertical motion that will move the arm shaft.

This part was made from 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 CRS.   I started by thinning it down to 0.200” wide, then drilled and reamed 3 holes – the center hole (1/8”) is the pivot and the outer two holes (5/64”) perform the action.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-1-DSC_0614.jpg)

Next, using the various holes as the datum I shaved off the edges of the part to help define the extent of the part.  This will make it easier to round the corners since I’ll know where they start.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-2-DSC_0617.jpg)

Then I nibbled out the corner to make the “L” shape of the bell crank.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-3-DSC_0620.jpg)

Holding the part at the prescribed angle, I notched out the fork on one of the arms.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-4-DSC_0623.jpg)

Then back to my sanding jig to round the corners and taper the sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-5-DSC_0628.jpg)

And here’s the final bell crank.  Looks like I need to blend that inside corner a bit better.  This is definitely a case where the camera macro picks up things I didn’t even see!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/145c-Arms-6-DSC_0631.jpg)

And this brings us to the end of the ‘arms’ section of the cylinder cocks subassembly.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 24, 2022, 10:22:37 PM
Chapter 19.7 – Collar


Today’s little project was a collar.  This snugs up against one side of the chassis and helps keeps the arm shaft in position.

It was made from 1/4” round bar (12L14).  Very simple.  Here I’ve drilled and remade a 1/8” hole through the center on the lathe, then moved the part to a collet block to drill the pin hole and tap for a 1-72 set screw:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/146a-Collar-1-DSC_0634.jpg)

Back to the lathe to part the collar off the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/146a-Collar-2-DSC_0637.jpg)

The completed collar:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/146a-Collar-3-DSC_0641.jpg)

You can see it mounted on the arm shaft on the right side in this photo, just on the outside of the chassis in front of the driver.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/146a-Collar-4-DSC_0649.jpg)

And that was it for today. It got hot early out in the shop today.  Tomorrow (and the rest of the week) is  supposed to be even worse, so I may not get a lot done.  We’ll see how it goes…

Thanks for stopping by on this hot day!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 25, 2022, 03:19:29 PM
Nearly there for that step  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: :)  :wine1:

What is the parting tool you are using? It seems to be wedge shaped or is that just the camera angle?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2022, 08:23:55 PM
Thanks Roger!

What is the parting tool you are using? It seems to be wedge shaped or is that just the camera angle?

It's just a standard 3/32" wide parting tool.  I got it from Grizzly when I purchased the lathe: [URL]https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-m2-hss-cut-off-blades-3-32-x-5-8-x-5/h4268[/url'

Yes, there is a bit of an angle on the cutting edge.  I assumed that was standard.  All the cut off tools I've owned have come with a little angle to them.  Not the Warner grooving tool - those inserts are flat on the end.  But any of the standard style cut-off tools like this seem to come with some amount of angle.  Maybe I'm wrong here and I need to sharpen it up and flatten it out.  I'm open to advise and recommendations on that!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 25, 2022, 08:26:54 PM
Chapter 19.8 – Front Bracket

Today I made the Front Bracket.  There are two brackets that hold up the whole lever mechanism for opening and closing the cylinder cocks.  Kozo calls them the front bracket and the rear bracket.  This is the front bracket.  It will hold the bell crank that I made a few episodes back.

This was made from a chunk of 3/8” x 5/8” 1018 steel bar.  The first step was to square it up and trim to size, then drill and ream the 1/8” hole – this is the business part of this bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-1-DSC_0652.jpg)

Next, I cut a 3/32” deep channel on one side.  Not sure that this cut-out has a specific function other than to make it look less blocky.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-2-DSC_0656.jpg)

Then flipping the part up on end, I drilled and tapped (3-48) the holes for mounting this on the underside of the running board.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-3-DSC_0660.jpg)

Rotating the part again I nibbled out a large chunk of the block to leave just the necessary bits of the bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-4-DSC_0663.jpg)

And finally, rounded the end on the sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-5-DSC_0666.jpg)

Here’s the completed front bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-6-DSC_0668.jpg)

Mounted in place on the front of the right under-side of the running board. Good place for a front bracket, wouldn't you say?  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/147a-FrontBracket-7-DSC_0674.jpg)

It’ll be a few parts still before we can see the bracket holding anything, but this is where it will reside.

One part at a time… I’m getting there!  Thanks for checking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 26, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Chapter 19.9 – Rear Bracket

And what follows the front bracket?  The rear bracket of course!  The rear bracket will hold the lever used by the engineer to actuate the cylinder cocks.

This was made from 3/8” x 1” CRS (1018).  I cut a short piece, trimmed it up in the mill to the correct dimensions, then drilled and tapped holes in one end.  These are for mounting it to the underside of the running board, like the front bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-1-DSC_0676.jpg)

Then flipping the part onto its side, I drilled and reamed the 5/32” pivot hole for the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-2-DSC_0679.jpg)

Next was to create a short radius slot.  The lever has a pin that will fit in this slot to limit its range of motion.  I did this on the rotary table (as might be obvious).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-3-DSC_0681.jpg)

Then, still on the rotary table, I set the angle for one of the tapered sides of the bracket and offset the mill appropriately, and milled one of the tapered sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-4-DSC_0692.jpg)

Rotating the table (as one does with a rotary table) the opposite way, and REMEMBERING to offset the mill the opposite way too, I then tapered the other side.  So now the bracket is no longer rectangular, but a triangular shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-5-DSC_0694.jpg)

And finally to the belt sander to round the end of the rear bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-6-DSC_0696.jpg)

And here’s the beauty shot of the rear bracket.   Unfortunately, I forgot to clean up the part before this shot and you can see one of my overly exuberant scribe lines.  Oops… I’ll have to fix that!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-7-DSC_0698.jpg)

And here are both of the brackets attached to the underside of the running board.  The front bracket by the cylinders and the rear bracket located where the engineer can access the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/148a-RearBracket-8-DSC_0702.jpg)

The next part will be the lever itself.

Thanks for stopping by for a look! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 26, 2022, 10:59:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 27, 2022, 11:54:55 AM
Coming along nicely Kim - still folloing and enjoying your Build  :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:   :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 27, 2022, 04:03:33 PM
 :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JCvdW on July 27, 2022, 04:42:19 PM
Good progress! I am following closely, trying to convince myself that I should make a start on the Pennsy.

But now I see how handy the 2x72 belt grinder is ...

JC
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on July 27, 2022, 05:29:18 PM
Hello Kim,

a very good job!
The chassis of the locomotive looks good.
I'm following your build with a lot of interest because I want to start my 5 inch locomotive in the near future.
It also has 2 axles.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2022, 05:32:13 PM
Thank you  CNR, Per, Don, and JC.

Thanks for following along with my epic journey!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2022, 05:33:37 PM
Thank you Michael,

I'm following your build with a lot of interest because I want to start my 5 inch locomotive in the near future.
It also has 2 axles.

I'll look forward to following your loco build, Michael!  Can't wait to see what you'll be making!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on July 27, 2022, 06:54:09 PM
yes, when my workshop is fully set up again and I have finished building the Nicholas steam engine, I shall be good to go.
Just in advance, it is a frame and 4 wheels that I bought as a project that had started. I had the boiler made.
But everything on the subject in a separate report.

good luck with building

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2022, 11:29:39 PM
Wow!  That looks like a great project, Michael!  I'll look forward to seeing your build log on this one when you get around to it.
So many projects, so little time, eh? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 27, 2022, 11:34:43 PM
Chapter 19.10 – Lever

Today’s task was the lever.  The lever is basically a bell crank with a handle.  So it made sense to make it in two pieces, i.e., the bell crank and the handle.

I started with the bell crank, made from 1/4" x 1” 1018 bar.  I trimmed it to size then drilled the pivot hole and a smaller hole on one end of the bell crank for the reach rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-1-DSC_0706.jpg)

Flipping the piece on end, I drilled and tapped a little hole (1-72) to receive the handle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-2-DSC_0709.jpg)
I tapered the outside edge lever arm at 3o.  The random scrap of aluminum beside the part is just some packing.  The part was only 0.200” wide, but my angle blocks are 0.250” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-3-DSC_0712.jpg)

Then flipping it over, I tapered the inside edge at 3o also (which means I had to use a 6o angle block since the other side was just tapered).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-4-DSC_0716.jpg)

At this point, I took the part to the belt grinder and rounded the corners and tapered the other leg of the bell crank.  Sorry, I forgot to get a picture of this. But it looks like the other belt-sander-radius-grinding pictures I’ve been posting.  Exact same jig using the same holes.  Only the part was different! :)

Finally, for the bell crank, I cut the space between the forks for the reach rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-5-DSC_0721.jpg)

Following this, I went to the lathe and turned a little handle – mainly done freehand with some files.  Unfortunately, no pictures of this either.  It was getting hot in the shop and I was hurrying to finish.

But here’s a shot of the two pieces.  The threads are just to hold the lever handle in place during the silver soldering process.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149a-Lever-6-DSC_0722.jpg)

However, since it was already in the mid-90s (F) outside (and getting hotter!) I decided to leave the silver soldering to another day.
We’re having yet another record heat wave here in the NW.  Temperatures over 100oF for 4-5 days in a row here.  Way too stinkin' hot.

They are having the Great Oregon Steam-up this weekend and next. But it’s going to be WAY too hot to go this weekend.  I hope it cools down next week cause I’d really like to go!  Is anyone else in the area planning to attend the Great Oregon Steam-up?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 28, 2022, 12:06:58 AM
More great parts!     :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2022, 05:05:44 AM
Thanks Chris!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on July 28, 2022, 07:52:55 AM
Hello Kim,
again a precisely manufactured part.
When it's that warm where you are, soldering goes much faster. 😉
But it was very warm with us in the last week with new heat records. (now it is too warm and in winter we might freeze due to lack of natural gas......)
I wish you cool weather for working in the workshop and a trip to the steam exhibition.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on July 28, 2022, 12:12:23 PM
Great work Kim, enjoying your build, seems the Northern hemisphere is getting smashed with record heat waves, stay cool,
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 28, 2022, 03:22:30 PM
Quote
Is anyone else in the area planning to attend the Great Oregon Steam-up?
I would if I could but I can't so I won't. Maybe it will work out next year.

A very nice sequence of little parts, Kim. Your work is consistently clean, tidy, and crisp. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 28, 2022, 04:34:38 PM
Thanks Michael, Gary, and Ron!  :cheers:

Quote
Is anyone else in the area planning to attend the Great Oregon Steam-up?
I would if I could but I can't so I won't. Maybe it will work out next year.

Too bad you can't make it this year.
But maybe next year?! 
That's what I said LAST year, so I'm hoping it works out this year!  :Lol:

Just in case anyone is interested, here's the web page about the event:
https://www.antiquepowerland.com/steam-up (https://www.antiquepowerland.com/steam-up)

Kim

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 12:39:02 AM
This morning it was much cooler out (only mid 70’s) so I did my slivers soldering:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149b-Lever-01-DSC_0724.jpg)

After a bath in the pickle and some cleaning up, here’s the finished lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/149b-Lever-02-DSC_0742.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 12:47:10 AM
Chapter 19.11 – Reach Rod

The next part is the reach rod.  This is a long rod that connects the lever to the bell crank.

I cut a length of 5/32” round rod for the main part of the reach rod.  Then cut short grooves in each end. Here I’ve cut the groove in the left end and am just about to do the right side.  The gizmo in the middle is how I kept the grooves aligned when I reversed the part to cut the opposite end. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-01-DSC_0730.jpg)

I then cut a couple of squares of 0.080” steel sheet to go in those notches:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-02-DSC_0740.jpg)

And silver soldered them in place.  That is a little clamp gizmo is something that I got a while back.  I can’t remember whose thread it was on (maybe one of Chris’s?) but someone showed these and I picked up a pack of 10 of them.  They’re a short length of titanium that you can bend to any shape and use as a clamp while soldering.  This was the first time I used them and I’ll have to say it worked quite well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-03-DSC_0737.jpg)

Then I drilled and reamed a 5/64” hole in each end on the steel plate.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-04-DSC_0764.jpg)

And rounded the little plates using the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-05-DSC_0768.jpg)

And there we have the completed reach rod:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/150a-ReachRod-06-DSC_0770.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 12:50:20 AM
Chapter 19.12 – Link

The last part I tackled today is something that Kozo calls the link.  Its a dog leg rod that provides the vertical connection between the bell crank and the arm shaft below.

This part was cut from 0.080” sheet steel then milled to 5/32” wide:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-01-DSC_0745.jpg)

I started by drilling and reaming the 5/64” hole in one end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-02-DSC_0748.jpg)

Then rounded it on the sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-03-DSC_0750.jpg)

This link has a jog in it.  So I bent it carefully in the vise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-04-DSC_0754.jpg)

I drilled the far end after I’d made the bends.  Here I’m using a gauge pin to locate the existing hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-05-DSC_0756.jpg)

And after offsetting the required distance, I drilled and reamed the hole on the far end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-06-DSC_0760.jpg)

After rounding the end on the belt sander here  is the completed link:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/151a-Link-07-DSC_0762.jpg)

The remaining parts for the cylinder cock subassembly are all the various pins.  But it's hot in the shop and time to go in!  The pins will be for the next session.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 29, 2022, 01:29:32 AM
Very nice, as always.    :popcorn:




Yup, a while back I found those titanium strips for soldering clamps, they work great, don't stick to the solder, and can be formed as needed to fit the parts. Just don't get the back corners too red hot or they lose spring tension till they cool again.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 01:33:23 AM
Yeah, I thought it was you!   Thanks for the pointer to a great little tool, Chris!  :ThumbsUp: :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 29, 2022, 02:01:57 AM
If I could just remember where I found out about them from!   :headscratch:    :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 10:36:01 PM
Chapter 19.13 – Pins

Today is pin day.  There are 6 little pins that need to be made.  Each one is a simple turning job, so no process pics.  But here are all six of them completed.  The different one (lower left side) is the pin that limits the travel of the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-1-DSC_0772.jpg)

Here’s where that pin goes.  The small diameter of the pin will fit through the holes in the lever and capture the reach rod between the forks there. The large end of the pin will slip into the arc that was cut in the rear support.  No e-clip is needed here because the large head on that pin is essentially the same depth as the arc, so it won’t go anywhere.  And the lever will be locked on the lower pin with an e-clip to keep it in position.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-2-DSC_0779.jpg)

Here’s all the cylinder cock mechanism in place.  Kozo made it so that with the lever in the lower position the cocks will be closed, so that gravity will help hold the lever down and thus keep the cocks in the closed position.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-3-DSC_0781.jpg)

Here it is in the up position which means the cocks are open now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-4-DSC_0784.jpg)

Looking at the cylinder cocks, I blackened the ends of the valves with a permanent marker.  Then, with the handle in the closed position, I scribed a little line showing where the pass-through hole should be.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-6-DSC_0792.jpg)

Now with the lever in the open position, the scribe lines should be in the ‘open’ position.  And they mosty are.  But I’m going to see if I can find where I’m losing that last 5-10o of travel.  This would probably work, but I really want to make sure I’m getting all the travel available to me here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/152a-Pins-5-DSC_0789.jpg)

I still need to drill the pass-through hole in the valves but I’ll wait to do that till after I pin all the arms to the arm shaft.  Once everything is fixed in position, AND I hopefully find that last few degrees of rotation, I’ll figure out where to drill the holes in the valves.

Thanks for following my progress here!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 29, 2022, 10:50:53 PM
Looking great Kim! I pinned my calendar for Pin Day.  :Lol:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 29, 2022, 10:56:10 PM
Thanks CNR!  :cheers:

Boy, that's quite a groaner!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 30, 2022, 12:21:09 AM
You may be detecting a trend re my puns / groaners ..... or a character defect of some sort.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 30, 2022, 12:48:43 AM
Is it just the camera angle, or in the second to last picture are the arms on the valves moving to different angles , farther on the right hand ones, less on the left? If those crank arms have holes at different distance out from the pivot it would do that. Or if the connecting link is a little too long.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2022, 05:23:31 AM
You may be detecting a trend re my puns / groaners ..... or a character defect of some sort.  :Lol:
Yes, definitely detecting a trend!   :Jester:
Certainly not a defect of ANY kind.  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 30, 2022, 05:36:52 AM
Is it just the camera angle, or in the second to last picture are the arms on the valves moving to different angles , farther on the right hand ones, less on the left? If those crank arms have holes at different distance out from the pivot it would do that. Or if the connecting link is a little too long.

I'm pretty sure the crank arms are identical in length, due to the way they were made (bread sliced from a single shape).  I think it's some camera angle and some that the arms aren't pinned to the shaft yet.  My set screws are slipping some. And worse, sometimes the head of the screw is sticking out too far and hits on the edge of the cylinder causing it to slip and get out of whack.  Further, one of the drain cocks twists a little bit, so I'll need to get a better shim under it to make sure it is tight when it's at the correct angle.  I fought with this some earlier but chose to wait to fix the final positioning till I can put the cylinder cocks in for good. I still have to take them out one more time.

So, once I pin the arms on the shaft and get rid of those big set screws (where big is defined as 1/8" long 1-72 brass round head screws) I will be able to get a better reading on it.

It is certainly something to look out for - I THINK they will move the same amount when all things are "in tune".   The little scribe marks seem to be at the same angle, and I think that's the best thing to go with since you have less parallax involved with a scribe line.

Still a lot of fiddling there though.

Thanks for pointing that out, Chris.  I will definitely double-check that before drilling any holes!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 01, 2022, 08:13:29 AM
Lots of little details to get just right so the drains function correctly but they are most important  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 02, 2022, 10:16:04 PM
Lots of little details to get just right so the drains function correctly but they are most important  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Thanks Roger!
Yes, they certainly are a LOT of work!  And today's update is still all about finishing off those pesky little drains!   :Jester:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 03, 2022, 05:10:05 AM
I was going to post this update yesterday, but the site was down for some unknown reason.  So I decided to wait till today to post. But now that I go to push the 'post' button, the site seems to be down again :(
Hopefully, the site will come back up and I'll get it posted soon...

------

Yay!  It finally posted!   I gave up trying till this evening. Seems the site's back up now though! :)

Now, on to the actual post! :)
----------

Over the weekend I went back and drilled the holes in the valve pins.

But, before I did this, I carefully pinned each of the arms to the arm shaft, checking between each item that I hadn’t screwed things up too badly.  Once I got all the arms and collar pinned in place I still didn’t have the full 90o of motion that I wanted here.  So I removed the rear bracket (the one that holds the lever) and lengthened the arc by a tad on each side.  That allowed me to get the full motion (or very nearly at least – close enough to make me happy!).

Then I re-marked each of the valves with a vertical line showing what direction the pass-through hole should be.

With that mission complete, I carefully took each drain cock out of the cylinder, one at a time, and performed the following procedure.  First, I used the same size drill for the hole going through the cock body to make a  mark on the valve pin showing exactly where the hole should be.  Of course, I had to be very careful to make sure my scribe mark was completely vertical.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-1-DSC_0795.jpg)

My original plan was just to drill it like this.  But since the stainless steel of the pin was so much harder than the bronze of the cock body the drill was just chewing at the sides of the hole around the drain pin.  I stopped this as soon as I realized what was happening. The last thing I wanted was to enlarge that skinny hole too much!  That would make it impossible to shut the valve off.  So, I just used it to make a mark on the pin.

Then I removed the pin from the cock body and mounted it carefully in the vise, keeping the scribe mark vertical, and spotted and drilled the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-2-DSC_0798.jpg)

As you can see, the hole didn’t start too well – even with (what I thought) was a good spot, the bit wanted to wander around.  This is a very dinky bit, of course - #56 (0.0465”) so it’s pretty flexible.

So, what I did for the rest of the pins was to use a 3/64” center cutting end mill, which I just randomly happened to have in my mill bit drawer, to make a starting hole.  I only went a little way with the mill then switched to the bit. But this worked much better and made a very clean hole on both sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-3-DSC_0804.jpg)

Luckily, as messy as that side of the pass-through hole was, it didn’t seem to affect the functioning of the cock.  It shut off airflow when it was closed, and passed air when it was open.  What more could you ask for?

After reassembling the valve pin into the cock body I used a little bit of plumber’s Teflon tape (I cut it in skinny slices) to help make sure there were no leaks.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-4-DSC_0807.jpg)

I also added some thin shim washers.  I punched a selection of brass washers from 0.005”, 0.010”, and 0.015” shim material and then used the one that would allow me to tighten the drain cock tightly while keeping it pointed in the correct direction.  I had tried my best to make sure the valve holes in the cock bodies were drilled in the right spot, but it’s interesting how much tighter you can get them when the valve pin is in place to give you just a little bit of grip when screwing them in.

All this jockeying about took quite some time.  But I got it done!

And one thing I noticed while playing around down there. I’d completely forgotten that the steam tee has a HOLE in the bottom of it – in the completed engine, an oil line will be hooked up here, pushing oil into the steam intake side of things before the steam gets to the cylinders.  But since there’s no oil line hooked up there, any incoming air just streams out that hole as fast as it can!  This is one of the reasons it took so much air to run the engine - that, and the fact that there are no gaskets yet.  But an open hole will leak much more than a missing gasket (I think).

You can see this hole in the center of the picture – the bottom of the steam tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-5-DSC_0809.jpg)

So I quickly made a little brass cap to plug the end of this hole till the oil line is hooked up (probably a year or two down the road at this point!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/153a-CompletingTheValves-6-DSC_0812.jpg)

Here’s a short video clip showing the cylinder cocks  being opened and closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp10DrMwlwo

And here’s another one showing steam being applied to the steam input side of the tee.  You can hear that there’s still a lot of air leaking out. But it’s less than it was (believe it or not).  I can still feel air leaking out around one of the valve rods, and quite a bit comes out the exhaust side even when things aren’t running.  I’ll have to figure that out someday.  But here’s the engine running on air.  You can hear it slow down some when I open the drain cocks, which makes sense because they are bleeding off air from the cylinders.  And it speeds back up when I close the cocks. Plus, I can feel the air whizzing out of the drain cocks when they are open :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfkaEIeWMJM

So that brings us up to date, at least as of yesterday.

Today I started taking things apart.  I’m going to paint everything and re-assemble it, with gaskets and such.  Hopefully, it will be somewhat less leaky.  And maybe I can get rid of that gallop it has going on.  Regardless, I want to get things painted and assembled for the final time (he says optimistically) before I move on to the next parts.

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 03, 2022, 05:43:41 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 03, 2022, 11:59:19 AM
Great to see another Milestone reached Kim  :praise2:

Still following and enjoying your Build   :cheers:   :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on August 03, 2022, 12:58:27 PM
Amazing amount of work Kim, and a great record of your build, I am sure many model hobbyists will be referring back to your well documented Penny build in years to come, thanks for taking the time to share.

Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 03, 2022, 01:57:55 PM
Terrific progress!  Following along here.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 03, 2022, 02:39:17 PM
On my larger model, I didn't bother with the manual cylinder cocks and installed ones that work automagically.  Nice work on the manual linkages.

For the oiler, my pump has two outputs and the oil lines connect to the steam chest covers.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 03, 2022, 05:40:44 PM
Thanks CNR, Per, Gary, Chris, Kvom, and everyone else who stopped by for a look!  :cheers:

On my larger model, I didn't bother with the manual cylinder cocks and installed ones that work automagically.

Interesting...  How do automatic cylinder cocks work exactly?  Do they work like a pressure valve or what?  Inquiring minds and all....  ;)

For the oiler, my pump has two outputs and the oil lines connect to the steam chest covers.
That would make for a lot more piping work to distribute the oil, but it probably also makes for better oil distribution to the cylinders!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 03, 2022, 07:24:55 PM
That's running well  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 03, 2022, 08:12:04 PM
I congratulate you on this successful construction phase and look forward to new parts.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 03, 2022, 08:26:42 PM
Definitely a key milestone you've reached successfully, Kim. Congratulations! Looking forward to the post-paint look. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 03, 2022, 09:30:55 PM
Thanks Roger, Michael, and Ron!   :cheers:

Not much progress today.  I was in our backyard tearing out some old garden boxes that had rotted away over the years.  We're not gardeners so they have seen very little use over the many years we've lived in this house.  And they had become quite dilapidated and needed to be gone.  Now they are.  That's a good feeling!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on August 04, 2022, 02:28:21 AM
Awesome ……… :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2022, 05:23:23 AM
Thanks Don!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2022, 11:39:36 PM
After disassembling the engine I decided I should talk a family shot of all the parts made to date.  I don’t expect to see all the individual components separate again.  At least, I hope not!  Once I get things tuned up and running well, I’d like to leave them that way.

So, here’s the family shot.   Doesn't look like almost 2 years' worth of work, but that's how long I've been at it, give or take a several-month hiatus for some recovery time and a month for making the 2x72 belt sander. And teaching myself to (kind-a) weld.  So, maybe 18+ months?  Still, lots of work for not that many parts!  The little tins on the left side have all the screws and e-clips to hold things together, along with several dozen little pins that I made for the linage and such.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154a-Painting-1-DSC_0825.jpg)

I’m going to be powder coating most of the parts black.  But all the arms, links, and moving parts will remain metal-colored.  But to help keep them from rusting or tarnishing (in the case of the brass) I’m going to give them a quick spritz with a clear coat. Not a lot, and not really thick.  But hopefully, just enough to keep it from rusting (as quickly, anyway).  We’ll see how it goes.

While I do like that polished brass look, I’m just not patient enough to get that look.  I will be going for more of the ‘brushed’ look.  That hides a lot of imperfections and is a much easier finish to achieve and maintain.  With that in mind, I brushed up all the parts to remain metal and masked off select portions of them where I thought it would be necessary, then gave them their light spritzing:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154a-Painting-2-DSC_0829.jpg)

Though that doesn’t seem like a lot, it sure took a long time!

Next up will be to clean up and mask off all the other parts that will be painted black.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 05, 2022, 01:14:24 AM
Amazing amount of work represented there!
Looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 05, 2022, 01:38:01 AM
You say it doesn't look like enough for the time, but those are a lot of parts, all the right shapes, all that fit, and they work!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 05, 2022, 04:10:42 AM
Very nice job Kim.

…. Plus, I can feel the air whizzing out of the drain cocks when they are open :) …

Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!

(Ask me how I know)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2022, 05:26:37 AM
Thanks Dave, Chris, and Craig!  :cheers:

Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!

(Ask me how I know)

So, how do you know?   >:D

Sounds painful!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on August 05, 2022, 08:29:42 AM
Looks great, its almost a shame to paint it
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Craig DeShong on August 05, 2022, 08:36:41 AM
Thanks Dave, Chris, and Craig!  :cheers:

Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!

(Ask me how I know)

So, how do you know?   >:D

Sounds painful!

Kim

Especially so, when the locomotive is on the elevated track in the steaming bay, the drain cocks are at waist level, or head level if you happen to be bending over.  :facepalm2:

Nothing quite makes your day like a squirt of boiler water in the ear.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2022, 05:49:04 PM
Wait till the boiler is under pressure and there is a slug of hot water in the cylinder; stand at the wrong place when you open the throttle, and you get ‘peed on’ with hot boiler water!

(Ask me how I know)

So, how do you know?   >:D

Sounds painful!

Kim

Especially so, when the locomotive is on the elevated track in the steaming bay, the drain cocks are at waist level, or head level if you happen to be bending over.  :facepalm2:

Nothing quite makes your day like a squirt of boiler water in the ear.

YOUCH!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 05, 2022, 05:50:33 PM
Looks great, its almost a shame to paint it

Thanks Sam,
Yes, almost... But I decided long ago that I was going to paint.  And the tender is already painted.  And I think it would look silly to have the tender painted but the engine left in bare metal!  :Lol:

But I agree.  It was a hard decision!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on August 06, 2022, 12:23:03 PM
Kim,

I don't agree about it not looking like a lot of work. I'm building an 0-4-0 camelback in 1.5" scale and frequently have discussions with a live steam friend about how it takes a certain kind of person to keep working on these until they are complete. The collection of parts represent a LOT of work. I'm just at the stage of taking apart my running chassis to paint it and put back together. For the last time I hope, just like you said! I enjoy following along!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 06, 2022, 03:42:40 PM
Thanks PJ!
Hope your painting and re-assembly goes well! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2022, 12:07:33 AM
I’d spent the last few days masking and cleaning all the parts, so today was painting day!

Here’s the first batch of parts just after they’ve been powder coated.  The crinkly shiny stuff along the top is aluminum foil.  I’ve found that if cover the rack with foil I can hang the parts on the rack and powder them there.  Then I just have to move the rack into the oven.  Before I was hanging them in a box for powder coating, then moving the part to the rack, and THEN putting the rack in the oven.  This just makes one less step and I have less problem banging the parts together and knocking the powder off.  And the aluminum foil keeps the rack itself from getting powder coated!  I thought it was pretty ingenious :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154b-Painting-1-DSC_0835.jpg)

Here’s a tray of cookies baking in the oven.  They’re almost done – the timer is about to go off!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154b-Painting-2-DSC_0839.jpg)

And here are the first two trays out of the oven, after they’ve cooled enough that I could take them off the racks.  But you can still see masking and some of the hanging wires.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154b-Painting-3-DSC_0841.jpg)

And finally, a day’s work baking.  All the parts have been painted and we’re ready for re-assembly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154b-Painting-4-DSC_0844.jpg)

Well, I have to take that back. One part was still in the oven – I’d dinged up the steam-T when taking a rack out of the oven and I wanted to re-coat and bake that part before I finished for the day.  It still had some baking time left when I took this picture.  So if you noticed the steam-T missing, you were right!

It’s done now though.

It never ceases to surprise me how fun and easy this whole powder coating process is. And what amazing results it provides!  I really like powder coating.  It is one of my favorite finishing methods now.  I’m not a lover of painting ever, but this, I can do!

Next shop time will be re-assembly.  Not tomorrow though. I’m going over to my Mom’s house to help her tomorrow.  So, maybe Wednesday?

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 09, 2022, 12:27:15 AM
Beautiful results. How does that oven differ from a standard toaster oven?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2022, 12:38:58 AM
Beautiful results. How does that oven differ from a standard toaster oven?

Uh... The label?

I believe it's just a toaster oven that they put their name on.   The reason I got this one specifically is that I was sure this one would get hot enough to do the job, it has a fairly large volume, and it has a large glass door so you can see through it well.   And it was in the same price range as a larger toaster oven.  Plus, I was buying the powder coating gun from Eastwood at the same time so I got a deal on it too :)

I did look at other toaster ovens but they all had problems - things like the door was smaller than the inside so it would be hard to maneuver parts in and out that were toward the large end of its envelope, or they would only go up to 400F (you need 450F), or it didn't say you high it would go (this was quite common), or they had very poor visibility into the oven, or they were just very small.

So I'm quite pleased with this oven and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.  But if you've got a toaster oven that would work, by all means, use it!   Just don't cook food in it anymore after you've used it to cure paint!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 09, 2022, 12:37:04 PM
I bought a double wall oven from a guy doing a house renovation for $100, and use it for powder.  Another $50 for a 220V cord and plug.   I can do larger parts than in the toaster oven size.  I keep the oven on a roller platform so I can move it out of the way easily when not in use. 

400F works fine in my experience.

Covering the rack with foil keeps it clean, but I haven't done that, so mine are multi-color as I also spray parts hanging.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 09, 2022, 05:39:03 PM
I bought a double wall oven from a guy doing a house renovation for $100, and use it for powder.  Another $50 for a 220V cord and plug.   I can do larger parts than in the toaster oven size.  I keep the oven on a roller platform so I can move it out of the way easily when not in use. 
That's a great idea!  If you have the space, at least.  And it surely would allow you to do larger parts!  I saw one guy on line that extended his oven using foil-covered foam insulation so that he could fit a larger part in the oven.  Seemed to work OK for him...

400F works fine in my experience.
Glad to hear that works! :)
I've always done the 450 to get the paint to flow, then 400 for 20 min to bake.  That's what the directions say.  Guess some pains they recommend lower temperatures (like the clear) or it yellows.

Covering the rack with foil keeps it clean, but I haven't done that, so mine are multi-color as I also spray parts hanging.
The problem I would have is that I depend on the rack for my grounding connection to the parts. Once something gets coated in paint, it doesn't conduct very well.  So the foil helps keep the racks clean(ish).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 09, 2022, 09:05:12 PM
Great result Kim   :ThumbsUp:  and thank you for showing the hanger detail - hope I will remember it next time I do some Powder Coating  :cheers:   :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 09, 2022, 11:14:14 PM
Great looking finish on the parts Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 10, 2022, 01:56:17 AM
Thanks Per and CNR!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 10, 2022, 02:24:50 PM
I use wire to hang the parts and connect the ground clip to the wire.  So coating the rack isn't an issue. But I can see where doing multiple small parts grounding the rack would be preferable.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on August 11, 2022, 02:49:21 AM
looking better every day, the power coating looks fantastic, I will have to complete some research into this method :)
Well done Kim.

Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on August 11, 2022, 05:33:42 PM
Do you guys plug the holes when you powder coat?  Or do you clean the plastic out of the holes and chase the threads after you've powder coated?

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 11, 2022, 09:07:25 PM
Do you guys plug the holes when you powder coat?  Or do you clean the plastic out of the holes and chase the threads after you've powder coated?

Don

The first time I powder coated I filled every hole with something (those fancy rubber stoppers they sell) or with the appropriate machine screw, to keep the threads from getting coated.

But after I'd done it a few times I started to see how HARD it was to get the powder down in little holes like that.  This time, I only plugged large holes.  i put a few screws in place, but mainly as attachment points for wire to hang the part.  Most of the small screw holes I just left open and figured I'd clean them out with a tap if needed.  But as I'm reassembling things, I'm finding that most of the threaded holes just work, no chasing with a tap required.  A few needed a tap to make the screw go in well, but not many.

I'm saving a lot of screws this way! 

I have considered powder coating a bunch of screw heads, but I'm also considering just leaving them bright, as is.  We'll see.  I can also mark them up with a bit of regular paint or even a permanent marker if I choose to.  That looks pretty close to the black paint.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 14, 2022, 11:13:06 PM
With the reassembly, I took my time and carefully made sure each part fit well before moving on to the next thing.  I believe this paid off because I think the engine runs better now than it did before!

One of the differences is that I found some better packing to use for the pistons.  Before, I used some generic graphite yarn from a hardware store.  This was OK, but was messy and had tendrils that stuck out everywhere.

However, on Amazon I found some much better packing – it is 1/8” braided PTFE.  It was more expensive than the other stuff but SO much better!  The lower blue bubble pack is the hardware store stuff that I used previously.  The roll above (with the big yellow box) is the braided PTFE.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-1-DSC_0853.jpg)

I found the 1/8” PTFE a bit too large for the groove in my piston.  So, what I did was pull one of the strands out of the braid to make it a bit smaller.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-2-DSC_0858.jpg)

This worked really well!  The packing fit and the braided PTFE didn’t come apart or fray or anything.  I was quite impressed!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-3-DSC_0862.jpg)

With the pistons installed, it was time to put on the cylinder heads.  Following Kozo’s recommendation, I used the LocTite Gasket Eliminator. I also used the Loctite primer to prepare the surface prior to applying the thin layer of the Gasket Eliminator.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-4-DSC_0847.jpg)

Now, I didn’t seal up ALL the parts of the cylinders yet.  I did the rear head (shown above) and between the cylinder and steam chest, but I just bolted the front head and steam chest covers in place.  I needed to remove them many times while attaching all the running gear and adjusting the valve timing.

After a lot of fussing about and getting things to where they ran quite well, I finally sealed up the steam chest cover and the front head.  ;D

It was then that I realized I’d forgotten to put on the beauty ring covers on the rear of the cylinders!  :wallbang:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-5-DSC_0864.jpg)

While frustrating, it wasn’t totally unrecoverable.  I was able to detach the front drivers and flip them down out of the way, remove the crosshead rails, take off the piston rod and several parts of the valve gear, unscrew the crosshead itself, and then, finally slide the cylinder cover in place.

At least I was smart enough to mark things carefully with a felt tip pen so that I could get everything back in the correct orientation!  It took a lot of work to make up for my lack of foresight, but in the end, I finally got it all back together!  8)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/154c-Painting-6-DSC_0869.jpg)

And with that, I will leave you with one final video of the engine running.  It isn’t perfect, but it’s better than it was, and it makes me happy!  It leaks so much less than it used to and runs on a lot lower pressure.  I'm quite pleased!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L0sitX_HQM

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 15, 2022, 12:51:28 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 15, 2022, 01:32:47 AM
Looks and runs great Kim. Treat yourself to your favorite treat! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on August 15, 2022, 01:57:28 AM
Awwww music to my ears. Great job Kim she’s a runner and some very nice craftsmanship…….uh did I say I likeeeee……. :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 15, 2022, 06:00:56 AM
Thanks, CNR, Ron, and Don!    :cheers:


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 15, 2022, 06:50:09 PM
Hi Kim,

I congratulate you on this successful phase of construction. 👍
What's next? The boiler?

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 15, 2022, 09:16:38 PM
Thanks Michael!

What's next?  Well, first there's a camping trip with my extended family.  That'll soak up a week or so.  But following that, I'll be building the water and oil pumps. Then I think next is the firebox grate and ash pan.  Then comes the boiler!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 25, 2022, 11:07:21 PM
I’m back from a wonderful camping trip with my extended family.  We had a great time! The weather was good and the company was great! What more can you ask for? :)

Now it’s time to start on the feedwater pump.

Chapter 20.1 – Pump Body

The first part of the pump is the Pump Body.  This is a complex little fabricated part.  It’s made up of three pieces – a long rectangle block for the plunger and for mounting, a round rod to house the ball valves, and a smaller round part for the output connection.

The first thing I made was the output nipple.  It was made from 1/4" 360 brass rod.  A fairly simple turning operation.  Here I am cutting it off of the parent stock:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-01-DSC_0878.jpg)

The next piece I tackled was the rod for the ball valves.  This was made from 7/16” 360 brass rod.  Here I’ve taken a short length down to 13/32” and drilled the lower ball chamber for the intake.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-02-DSC_0881.jpg)

And now tapping it 1/4"-32 for the intake fitting, which will be made later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-03-DSC_0884.jpg)

After parting that off I held it by the 13/32” diameter end in a 5C collet holder and drilled a hole to receive the output nipple.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-04-DSC_0887.jpg)

Then I silver soldered those two pieces together – the output nipple to the valve column.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-05-DSC_0891.jpg)

Next, I took a length of 1/2" x 3/4" 360 brass bar and brought it down to the required size, which was a little over 5/8” wide.  Then I drilled a hole through it to receive the valve chamber column.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-06-DSC_0894.jpg)

Then flipping on end and carefully placing at 90 degrees, I drilled the hole for the plunger and O-ring retainer.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-07-DSC_0897.jpg)

With that, I silver soldered the valve chamber to the plunger chamber.  Kozo recommended dropping the solder down the plunger hole – that way it didn’t get the direct heat from the flame and could coat the entire joint.  That seemed to work quite well.  Though I also put a little piece of solder on the outside of the joint too, I don’t really think it was required.  And I probably just ended up using more silver solder than was really required.  Regardless, I am quite pleased with the penetration I got on this soldering exercise!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-08-DSC_0903.jpg)

After some time in the pickle bath, I held the unit in a collet by the completed end of the valve chamber and proceeded to drill out the output valve side.  Here I’ve drilled out most of the stock with a #3 drill and now I’m taking it to final size with a D-bit.  This also created the reverse angle on the ball seat to help the ball seal well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-09-DSC_0913.jpg)

And, like the input side, the output side is tapped 1/4"-32 to accept the output plug fitting (which will also be made later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-10-DSC_0915.jpg)

Next, I opened up the rest of the plunger hole.  This got sealed off when we soldered in the valve chamber.  This operation connected the plunger chamber to the valve chambers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-11-DSC_0920.jpg)

And finally, I tapped several holes in the pump body.  These two side holes are tapped 3-48 for mounting holes. There’s another 3-48 hole to hold the O-ring retainer in place and one for a 1-72 screw to keep the ball in the input side from getting sucked up too high and cutting off water flow on the intake stroke.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-12-DSC_0923.jpg)

And after a bit of cleanup, here’s the completed pump body.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-13-DSC_0925.jpg)

Thanks for checking in on me and my build!  I appreciate it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 25, 2022, 11:18:22 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 26, 2022, 12:16:46 AM
Pump parts are looking great Kim!  :cheers:
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 26, 2022, 12:46:55 AM
Glad you had a good time camping with the Fam, Kim. Obviously you came back "pumped up" to get back to work on the A3. :Lol: Nice work!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 26, 2022, 01:29:55 AM
Nice work as usual Kim!  :ThumbsUp:

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 26, 2022, 04:41:19 AM
Kim, excellent work! It's always interesting for me to see how components are created step by step.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 26, 2022, 05:29:50 AM
Thank you, everyone, for the encouraging words!  :cheers:
I do appreciate everyone following along to keep me honest and on track. I need all the help I can get!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 26, 2022, 11:09:56 AM
Great fabrikation  :ThumbsUp: + nice to seee you back posting Kim  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 26, 2022, 04:40:49 PM
Gets closer every time I look in!    Nice looking pump Kim      Is the 3-48 screw used as just a pin to hold the gland together?  I know Kozo loves O-rings

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 26, 2022, 05:18:34 PM
Thanks, Per and Dave!

Is the 3-48 screw used as just a pin to hold the gland together?  I know Kozo loves O-rings

Dave

Yes, one of the 3-48 tapped holes is used to hold the gland in place, or the O-ring retainer as Kozo calls it.  Yes, he loves to use the O-rings, and they seem to work quite well!

There are two other 3-48 holes on the back - these are for mounting the pump to the chassis.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/155a-PumpBody-12-DSC_0923-Annotated.jpg)

Kim
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 26, 2022, 06:53:56 PM
Hello Kim,

what is that part that has the pump on it?
A gauge for different diameters?

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 26, 2022, 07:59:10 PM
Hi Michael,
It's a tap guide.  I used it to help make sure I'm getting the taps started perpendicular to the surface.  Great little gadget!  I believe I got mine from Little Machine Shop https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3427&category= (https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3427&category=) but I'm sure you can get them anywhere.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 26, 2022, 08:35:30 PM
thanks Kim for the information. Seems to be a useful part.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 27, 2022, 11:27:50 PM
Chapter 20.2 – Fittings

Next on the pump are a group of little parts that Kozo calls the ‘Fittings’.  It’s the outlet plug, the input ball seat, and a nut to hold the water infeed line in place.

First the outlet plug.  This was made from 5/16” hex 360 brass.  Not too complicated.  Here I’m parting it off the parent stock:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-1-DSC_0928.jpg)

The next part is similar, the input ball seat.  It was made from 3/8” hex brass.  The right end is the ball seat (with the 15o angle on it).  The left side will be the water inlet.  Again, I’m parting it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-2-DSC_0931.jpg)

I flipped it around in the 3/8” hex collet and cut the 5/16”-24 threads for attaching the water input.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-3-DSC_0935.jpg)

Moving to the mill, I drilled a 3/32” hole which will allow the water to get sucked up by the pump.  I held the part by the short 1/4-32 threaded end.  Not a lot to hold onto, but it was sufficient. To make the hole I used a 3/32” center cutting end mill because the 3/32” drill bit kept wandering, even with a good center hole spotted.  I think what was happening is the bit was hitting the sides of that little u-channel before the tip got to the center hole.  But the end mill worked quite well.  Probably should have just started with that anyway!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-4-DSC_0938.jpg)

Lastly, I made a 5/16”-24 nut out of 3/8” brass hex.  This was so quick I forgot to take a picture of it in process.  So you’ll have to settle for the post-production shot of all three parts made today:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-5-DSC_0940.jpg)

And this is about what they’ll look like assembled.  The plug goes on the top (the output side), the inlet ball seat goes on the bottom, and the nut goes on the outside of the inlet seat to hold the yet-to-be-created water supply ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/156a-Fittings-6-DSC_0944.jpg)

That’s where I quit for today.  All in all, a good day, I’d say! :)
Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 28, 2022, 01:04:33 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on August 28, 2022, 01:45:19 AM
That’s to sweet Kim…… : :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 28, 2022, 05:17:36 AM
Thanks CNR and Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 28, 2022, 11:53:26 PM
Chapter 20.3 – O-Ring Retainer

Next up is the O-Ring retainer.  This was a simple turned part made from 1/2" nominal bronze (932 bearing bronze).  Here’s a pic as I’m parting it off:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/157a-ORingRetainer-1-DSC_0947.jpg)


Chapter 20.4 – Plunger

Then came the plunger.  Another simple part.  This one was made from 1/4" stainless steel rod (303).  I cut the length and tapered both ends as indicated.  Then, holding it the square collet block I drilled and reamed a 3/32” hole for the rod pivot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/157a-ORingRetainer-2-DSC_0950.jpg)

Then rotated it 90 degrees and milled a slot, also for the rod.  I used a 1/16” end mill for this.  It seemed like the easy way to go.  Boy, was I wrong.  It was just taking so long to carve out that little slit… I ended up getting greedy and took too deep/fast of a cut and snapped the 1/16” end mill.  Luckily I had another one so I kept at it – just going slower and gentler.  I’d have been better off just going with the slitting saw.  It would have been much faster even with a little extra setup time.  Anyway, I got it done. And now I’m smarter! (All I need to do is remember this lesson for NEXT time :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/157a-ORingRetainer-3-DSC_0951.jpg)

Here are the two parts made today: the O-Ring retainer and the plunger.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/157a-ORingRetainer-4-DSC_0953.jpg)

Next up is the rod itself.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 28, 2022, 11:55:52 PM
... this accidental repost of the Intro/Index page was intentionally removed...
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 29, 2022, 03:19:17 PM
So looking at the Index again + the previous entry = You reached the finish Line  :ThumbsUp:   8)

Somehow I think there are a few chapters missing in the Index you just shoved Us again  :thinking:

None the Less - Bravo for reaching this Point on the Journey  Kim  :praise2:   :praise2:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2022, 04:55:15 PM
So looking at the Index again + the previous entry = You reached the finish Line  :ThumbsUp:   8)

Somehow I think there are a few chapters missing in the Index you just shoved Us again  :thinking:

None the Less - Bravo for reaching this Point on the Journey  Kim  :praise2:   :praise2:

Per

Oops... I guess I 'replied' to my index post, rather than modifying it!  Sorry about that.   :embarassed:
I've removed the massive unintentional re-post.
And apologize to everyone for having to look at that again!

Thanks for mentioning that Per!  I appreciate it - I may not have noticed my screw-up otherwise!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on August 29, 2022, 05:20:25 PM
Of course we are all waiting for Chapter 23, where the rubber meets the road. Or better stated, where the copper hits the forge.

I used Kozo's instructions in Chapter 23 when I built my Raritan some years ago. Worked out well. The original instructions using Sil-Fos and a totally different heating schedule led to a disaster.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2022, 05:27:00 PM
Of course we are all waiting for Chapter 23, where the rubber meets the road. Or better stated, where the copper hits the forge.

I used Kozo's instructions in Chapter 23 when I built my Raritan some years ago. Worked out well. The original instructions using Sil-Fos and a totally different heating schedule led to a disaster.

Gene
Yes!  I'm quite excited about chapter 23 too!  I also have a little trepidation about it.  I've never made such a large, complex boiler before  :o  But I've had such good success following Kozo's excellent instructions that I'm sure I'll get through it.  :-\

It's nice to hear you had good luck following his method for your Raritan project too.  Gives me more hope for a successful outcome!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 29, 2022, 05:59:55 PM
One of the many things I learned from building a boiler from kozos books was to get a torch with lots of oomph, amazing how copper radiates heat back out.


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 29, 2022, 06:39:07 PM
Just catching up after having been travelling for a while. Splendid work The set of parts is great for only two years work  :praise2:  :praise2: powder coating looks good  :)  :) and I wish you all the best for the boiler  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on August 29, 2022, 08:25:40 PM
Hello Kim, when milling grooves I always try to drill out the material with a drill (always 0.1 to 0.2 mm smaller). This protects the cutter. Oil for milling also helps quite well. Continue good success. 👍

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2022, 11:12:38 PM
Thanks Chris, Roger, and Michael!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2022, 11:14:27 PM
Hello Kim, when milling grooves I always try to drill out the material with a drill (always 0.1 to 0.2 mm smaller). This protects the cutter. Oil for milling also helps quite well. Continue good success. 👍

Michael
Good advice, Michael!
I've done that before on larger slots, but this was so tiny I somehow didn't think about it till too late!  But that would certainly have helped!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 29, 2022, 11:50:17 PM
Chapter 20.4 – Pin

Well, before I make the conrod, I’ll make the pin to attach it to the plunger.

This was a very simple turning exercise, so nothing but the completed part pic:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/158a-Pin-1-DSC_0955.jpg)

Now, as I was working on my plan of attack for the conrod, I came to the realization that the two eccentrics I pre-installed on the rear axle (for use with the feedwater pump and the oil pump) were installed backward.  That is, the one for the feedwater was on the side of the oil pump, and vice versa.  :wallbang:

While it may not be overly clear in this picture, the two eccentrics ARE actually different sizes.  One is 15/16” and the other is 13/16” in diameter.  What’s worse is that they have different offsets – meaning they provide a different throw length for the two different pumps.  So I couldn’t use them interchangeably.  I had to get them swapped.  :facepalm:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/158a-Pin-2-DSC_0958.jpg)

I hated to tear it down since I’d spent so much time setting the timing and the cylinders were all sealed up and everything.  I rechecked several times and each time I came to the same conclusion - the eccentrics were in backward.  So, I decided there wasn’t anything for it, I’d just have to bite the bullet and tear it all down again. And what’s worse – the only way to swap the eccentrics was to take off one of the wheels.  They are Loctited in place, so I was going to have to use some heat to get one of them off.  My big fear was that would screw up the paint, so I’d have to repaint at least one of the wheels.  :facepalm2:

Fortunately, as I was disassembling things the lightbulb went on :noidea: and I realized that all I needed to do was to flip the entire wheel assembly over – left to right – and THAT should fix the problem.  In fact, once I realized this I felt much better that I HADN’T actually glued the wheel assemblies together wrong, I’d just assembled it backward this most recent time.

With this revelation, it became a much more tractable fix.  And in fact, I was able to get it done in less than a couple of hours.

I can tell you that the little fixture Kozo has you make to set the position of the return crank is a life saver.  I’ve used it so many times in my multiple reassemblies it isn’t even funny. It is worth its weight in brass, that’s for sure!  Even if this is the LAST time I use it! (He says optimistically :Lol:).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/158a-Pin-3-DSC_0963.jpg)

Anyway, with all that done, I had to make sure I got things back together without screwing up the timing.  So I hooked it up to the air and... it ran!  I was actually able to do the whole process without disassembling anything that required tuning, so I was hopeful, and my hope proved founded!  What's more, I think it runs even BETTER than it did before. Guess there is SOME subtle difference between the two directions for the rear wheels after all?  That's how I did all the measuring and tuning of lengths of the rods, so maybe so?

Notice how slowly I’m able to run things this time – very little pressure – just a few pounds!  I’m quite pleased with it, which is why I had to post just ONE more video of it running  :cartwheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jvY7o_9TfQ

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
Kim

PS. I’ll try NOT to repost the whole intro/index this time when I update it!  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 30, 2022, 12:52:23 AM
Great save! And running very well. One question though - what was that lever you pulled at the very end of the video? Brake?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 30, 2022, 05:27:54 AM
Thanks Chris!

One question though - what was that lever you pulled at the very end of the video? Brake?

That's the lever to open the cylinder cocks so most of the air went streaming out the open cocks, thus the engine nearly stops.  When the cocks close, it starts back up again.  If I have the air pressure higher, opening the cylinder cocks will slow things down a bit but not stop it.  But when the pressure is low, like I was running with it pretty much stops.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on August 30, 2022, 11:23:01 AM
Kim,
Do you get Live Steam magazine? The new issue has a very interesting article about building a copper boiler without using flanged plates. The author uses plain, flat plates. It is a good article backed up with real research. Worth a look before you get started.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 30, 2022, 02:54:58 PM
Kim,
Do you get Live Steam magazine? The new issue has a very interesting article about building a copper boiler without using flanged plates. The author uses plain, flat plates. It is a good article backed up with real research. Worth a look before you get started.

Hi JP,
Yes, I do get Live Steam and I've noticed the article, though I haven't read it yet.  I tend to let my periodicals build up in a pile by my bedside till I've finished the whatever I'm currently reading or doing (I'm close to finishing a book of math & logic problems :)), then I read a bunch of them. I will definitely read that article, and before I start the boiler!  The boiler is still several weeks out yet so I've got some time :)

Thanks for the pointer!
K
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 05, 2022, 11:28:02 PM
It’s been a busy weekend here – lots of visiting kids (adult children, that is) with lots going on.  So I haven’t made a lot of progress.  But I did get a bit done that I will share with you all.

Chapter 20.6 – Eccentric Rod

The next piece of the feedwater pump is the Eccentric Rod.  This was made from some 0.080” steel plate.  I cut a chunk from the plate and milled it to the exact size. Then drilled and reamed the holes:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/159a-EccentricRod-1-DSC_0974.jpg)


Then, using the belt grinder/sander and my cool little rounding jig, I rounded off the end and made the sloping angles at the same time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/159a-EccentricRod-2-DSC_0978.jpg)

And here’s the completed Eccentric Rod:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/159a-EccentricRod-3-DSC_0979.jpg)

Yeah, not a ton of work, but it needed to be made!

I’ve actually gotten some work done on the Eccentric Strap, but I’ll post that after it’s completed.

Thanks for looking in.  And I hope all of you in the US are enjoying your Labor Day holiday!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 06, 2022, 02:36:40 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2022, 05:53:23 PM
Thansk CNR!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2022, 06:10:40 PM
Today I’m posting on the construction of the Eccentric Strap.  This is a complex little part and took me several days to complete.  In truth, the Eccentric Rod (which I posted about yesterday) was completed in the middle of last week.  The intervening days have been spent on the Eccentric Strap (and on being a part of the family, which is important!)

So, let's get to it!

Chapter 20.7 – Eccentric Strap

The eccentric strap was made from a slice of 2 1/8” (nominal) bearing bronze (932).  It could have been a little smaller, but this is what I had.  And it wasn’t worth purchasing a length of a different size just for a 1/4" slab. This was WAY  cheaper!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-01-DSC_0971.jpg)

After facing off both sides in the mill, I took the top and bottom edges off to make the puck the correct width for the ears that will hold the two halves of the strap together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-02-DSC_0981.jpg)

After a little layout work, I drilled a 1/8” hole at the center(ish) and cut the top side of the ears.  Note the 1/8” gauge pin sticking through the hole – I used that as my reference for cutting the top of the ears.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-03-DSC_0985.jpg)

Then to the rotary table, where I used the 1/8” hole to register the center and round off the top of the strap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-04-DSC_0988.jpg)

And drilled the two screw holes to hold the cap onto the strap.  The hole is sized for 3-48 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-05-DSC_0991.jpg)

Next, I separated the strap cap from the rest of the strap using a slitting saw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-06-DSC_0994.jpg)

Then tapped the 3-48 in the lower part of the strap: (Ugh… I should have cropped this one better, sorry...)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-07-DSC_0997.jpg)

And then opened the holes on the cap side to s 3-48 close fit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-08-DSC_0999.jpg)

Now I could connect the cap back onto the strap with some 3-48 SCHS screws.  Since the 1/8” reference hole was now no longer round, I needed to make a new reference. I wanted a 1/4" hole in the center this time, but drilling through that non-round hole didn’t seem like it would go well.  So I started with a 3/16” end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-09-DSC_1004.jpg)

However, that didn’t go well.  For some reason unknown to me, it shattered just a few thou into the hole!  I’m certain it was a center-cutting end mill, I checked.  But it just shattered.  It was a ‘micrograin carbon’ bit.  Not overly expensive, but I’d have thought more of it than this!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-10-DSC_1006.JPG)

Anyway, I replaced that shattered bit with an HSS 3/16” 2 flute and it worked beautifully.  Then I drilled and reamed the hole to 1/4".

With my reference in place, I dropped a 1/4" center stub in the hole and scribed the outline of the other half of the strap.  I actually calculated DRO positions for all the future steps, but having these lines helps me to catch math mistakes and dyslexia errors! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-11-DSC_1011.jpg)

Back on the mill to cut the basic shape of the other side of the strap – the ears and the stub to attach the eccentric arm.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-12-DSC_1014.jpg)

Then back, centered up on the rotary table to round off the rest of the strap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-13-DSC_1015.jpg)

With the outline complete, I finally milled the thickness of the strap to its final dimension, taking some off each side till I’d reached my goal width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-14-DSC_1020.jpg)

Still, on the mill, I opened up the center hole to 1/2” using a few steps (boy, the drills were really grabby in this stuff!  I’ve not experienced that before!)  Then used the boring head to open it to the required 15/16”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-15-DSC_1024.jpg)

We’re getting close now!  Using the slitting saw I cut a channel to receive the eccentric rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-16-DSC_1025.jpg)

And drilled holes for the mounting screws.  One side tapped 2-56, and the other side clearance holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-17-DSC_1029.jpg)

And the final operation is creating the oiler hole. This is just a #32 hole (1/8” deep) as a little oil reserve,
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-18-DSC_1031.jpg)

Followed by a much smaller, angled hole, all the way through to the bearing surface.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-19-DSC_1034.jpg)

Ooops, that wasn't the final operation. This is! After attaching the eccentric arm, I used the angle on the arm to sand down the corners of the attachment tabs to make them nice and flush!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-20-DSC_1036.jpg)

With the eccentric assembly done, we can now finally assemble the entire feedwater pump.  Here are all the parts laid out.  The balls are Si Nitride Nitrile balls, rather than the stainless.  They seem to do so much better at sealing with the ball seat than the stainless steel balls.  I’ve had some trouble with the stainless balls in the past. The Si Nitride Nitrile work very well.  And you don’t have to do the ‘hammer rap’ on the SS ball to seat it.  I’ve heard (probably on this forum) that the Si Nitride Nitrile balls work better with a sharper seat rather than one that’s been ‘seated’ with an SS ball.  Regardless, here are the parts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-21-DSC_1039.jpg)

Here’s the assembled pump:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/160a-EccentricStrap-22-DSC_1048.jpg)

And to prove that it actually works, a short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGfJxp7N5ow

I’ll need to seal the top cap with some of that Loctite gasketless sealer when I assemble it for the final time.  It leaks out the top a bit under pressure, which we don’t want.  But before my final seal, I’m trying to decide if I should paint the pump body black, or just leave the whole thing brass colored... Decisions, decisions…

Thanks for looking in, and (potentially) sticking with me through this extremely long post!
Kim


PS I misspoke here - I called the balls Nitrile, but really they were Si Nitride!  So as not to pass along incorrect info in the future, I went back and changed this. Both the editor and I apologize for any confusion caused by this mistake  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 07, 2022, 08:14:03 PM
That's one mighty fine looking little pump, Kim. I hadn't heard of the the use of nitrile balls as an alternative to SS ones before; good to know! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 07, 2022, 10:35:04 PM
 :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2022, 10:43:32 PM
Thanks Ron and Don!  :cheers:

I hadn't heard of the the use of nitrile balls as an alternative to SS ones before; good to know! :ThumbsUp:

Yeah, I was having problems getting one of my pumps to seal well and someone mentioned these Si Nitride nitrile balls.  I ordered a small batch of them and they worked so well!  They seal better, won't rust and they can handle the heat.  What's not to like? :)

Kim

Edit: Changed the reference from the incorrect nitrile to the correct Si Nitride.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 08, 2022, 12:09:19 AM
You got some flow there on the pump! Nicely done.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2022, 05:24:50 AM
Thanks CNR! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 08, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Hi Kim,
I like the design of the pump and the simple construction. The construction report helps a lot when I'm ready with my locomotive.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2022, 04:55:31 PM
Thank you, Michael!
Though you know I can't claim any part of the pump design, right?  It's all Kozo's design, which I agree is very good! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 10, 2022, 09:49:58 PM
I mounted the feedwater pump to the chassis and attached the strap to the eccentric and now it goes in and out as the wheels go around and around! :)  What more could you ask for?  Things are upside down in this photo, so it won’t pump sitting like this (the infeed ball relies on gravity (and pressure differential) to seal). But you can see the parts moving and that makes me happy!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-1-DSC_1052.jpg)

I do think I’ll paint the main pump body black, so it’s not permanently mounted yet.

Now, on to the next subsystem: the Lubricator.  This is a pump that pumps oil around to a few various places on the engine, including into the steam-tee to add lubrication to the steam before it goes to the cylinders.


Chapter 21.1 – Pump Housing

The first part of the lubricator is the pump housing.  This is essentially a box to hold the oil and the pump.  It’s made from sheet steel (4130) 0.080” thick (for sides, front and back) and 0.040” thick for the bottom and cover.  Here are the components that will make up the housing after being cut to approximate size from the sheet.  Left to right, starting with the top row: Cover, Bottom, Rear, Front, Side, Side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-2-DSC_1054.jpg)

After trimming the sides to the determined size I used the slitting saw to cut grooves along the top for the cover to slide into.  Kozo does this with a groove cutting tool of some kind (like a woodruff cutter) after the box is soldered together.  But those woodruff cutters are quite expensive.  So I decided I could cut my grooves this way before the box is soldered together.  Hopefully, this will work out?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-3-DSC_1056.jpg)

I then drilled and tapped (0-80) 12 holes so that I could hold the box together during soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-4-DSC_1059.jpg)

Here’s the five pieces that will be silver soldered together to make the pump housing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-5-DSC_1061.jpg)

And what it looks like all screwed together.  The picture on the right is what it will eventually look like.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161a-PumpHousing-6-DSC_1063.jpg)

I had hoped to be able to sliver solder things together today, but they’re saying it’s pretty nasty out, air quality-wise (from all the wildfires in the area).  They’re telling people not to go out and stay indoors as much as possible today. So my agreement with my wife was that I’d play out in the garage, but NOT do anything that would require me to put up the garage doors.  So that’s where I’m quitting for the day.  And it really is pretty bad out there.  You look out expecting to see a sunny day and all you see is a gray/orange overcast look. Rather an eerie feeling!  Hopefully, it will be better tomorrow…

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 10, 2022, 09:53:36 PM
Looks great!
Here's hoping that you get a chance soon to do the soldering, and the orange glow in the distance doesn't get any closer to your house!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 10, 2022, 10:03:05 PM
Here's hoping that you get a chance soon to do the soldering, and the orange glow in the distance doesn't get any closer to your house!
Thanks Chris!

Fortunately, the orange glow is just the sunlight filtered through tons of smoke and soot.  I don't believe any of the wildfires are close enough to us to be a concern - other than air quality, which is plenty!  I know they were fighting a fire out 20-30 miles west of us yesterday though - a small one.  So they do happen!  But this smoke is being blown in by some really ugly windstorm that is coming through. They are shutting off power to many rural communities since everything is so dry and the fire danger is so high, the winds could bring down the power lines and we'd have one of those fires like California had recently!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 11, 2022, 08:21:41 AM
I had an M4 tap just shatter like your end mill. I guess something must have gone wrong with the heat treatment  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 11, 2022, 04:41:53 PM
I had an M4 tap just shatter like your end mill. I guess something must have gone wrong with the heat treatment  :headscratch:
Yeah, that was weird.  It was brand new - I don't think I'd ever used it before (if so, not much).  I was wondering if I'd dropped it or if it had gotten some hairline crack in it somehow.  It was just weird.  Like your shattering tap, Roger!

I don't hope for too many shattering tools, that's for sure!  :disagree:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 11, 2022, 07:56:16 PM
I know I can break taps by lack of attention, but this was not normal  ::)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2022, 08:07:20 PM
That many pieces for a hand tap is definitely unusual, I've only seen them break off across the tap at a slight angle into two pieces.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 11, 2022, 08:22:45 PM
I think that's why steel that's been hardened but not tempered is sometimes referred to as "glass hard".
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 11, 2022, 09:42:05 PM
Wow, Roger!  Those really did just shatter!

Were they carbide, or HSS?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 12, 2022, 07:52:07 AM
HSS Volkel taps.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2022, 08:58:26 PM
HSS Volkel taps.

That is weird that HSS would shatter like that.  I expect that more from carbide!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2022, 09:05:16 PM
Well, I’m still waiting for the air quality outside to improve before I can do my silver soldering.  It got better overnight – moved down to ‘moderate’ (from yesterday’s ‘unhealthy’)  which is good, but it was a high moderate and was moving up once the sun came up – approaching ‘unhealthy for sensitive groups’.  So, I decided to put off the soldering yet another day and work on other things.

A wrinkle in this oil pump is that it has a glass window so you can look and check the oil level.  That’s pretty cool!  But now I have to deal with glass!

I purchased a box of microscope slides for a few dollars off Amazon to use for this purpose.  I don’t know where I heard this from, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t come up with that myself. But the microscope slides are the perfect height and thickness for this application and were easy to come by.  I just had to cut a section off one end of a slide to the required width.  Sounds easy, right?  Even for someone who's never done this before, right? :-\

I didn’t have a glass cutter to scribe the glass with so I used a carbide-tipped scribe instead.

I tried scribing one side, then putting the slide in the vise to snap it.  That didn’t work so well – I could feel the glass crunching in the vise jaws.

For the second attempt, I tried scribing both sides.  But I must have been too vigorous in my scribing because the slide shattered when I was working on the second side.  It shattered somewhat along the scribe line, but not very well.

That’s OK.  I have a box of 100 slides to work with, so I’ve got a few more tries.

Turns out, my third time was the charm.  I scribed both sides, then carefully held the side I wanted between two pieces of sheet steel and quickly snapped the other side.  It just broke off as clean as you please!

Here’s a picture of my various attempts.  The top one is a blank slide as it comes out of the box.  just below that are my first two tries (first attempt on the right, 2nd on the left).  The bottom slide is my third, and successful attempt.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161b-PumpHousing-1-DSC_1070.jpg)

I noticed the red paint on the cutting mat when I was taking the picture and thought – huh, I don’t remember when I got red paint on there.  But I know I’ve used it for many years, so who knows!
But guess what?  I started to notice that the red paint was following me – on everything.  Apparently, I’d cut the side of my little finger on one of my failed attempts!  So a little clean-up and one band-aid later and all’s fine.  :)

With the slide cut to size, I proceeded to rub the rough edge on a whetstone to even it up (and make it less sharp – go figure!).  And then rounded the corners just a tad the same way.  Here’s the ‘finished’ window for my lubricator. (it’s just below center in the middle, just to the right of the word “REAM”  if you’re having trouble picking it out.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161b-PumpHousing-2-DSC_1074.jpg)

So that was my adventure in the shop for today.

Hope things are cleared up by tomorrow!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 12, 2022, 09:37:37 PM
Been there and done that Kim - the Very Sharp Cutting Edge (Scalpel / Glass etc.) and you Do Not feel a thing to warn you of what happened .... it is as you say - just the 'Trails' that give it away ::)

Other than that - I still Enjoy the fine Parts and their desciption from you  :praise2:

Per

ps  Roger - you must have been rather unlucky with those - I only got Very High Quality from Völkel (admittedly machine Taps)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 13, 2022, 11:01:28 PM
Today the air had cleared up enough that I was able to open the garage door and do some silver soldering.  Quite a bit, actually.  There were a lot of corners in this box to be soldered.  I used the high-temp black flux and it worked wonders.  I was able to get all the joints done in a single (though prolonged) soldering session.  I set up one side, heated things up, and got the solder on that side to flow.   Then I rotated the box (using implements – it was QUITE hot at this point) and applied a little more of the black flux and solder to the next side and did that.  It took at least four different rotate/heat/flow cycles and the black flux really made this work.  With the regular white flux, I would have had to have done this in at LEAST four different sessions – cleaning and re-heating between each session.  But using the black flux gave me a lot more flexibility there!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161c-PumpHousing-1-DSC_1077.jpg)

I put it in the pickle for an hour or so.  After rinsing it off, I could see that the solder had flowed quite well. And, as usual, I used a little too much solder.  But I really didn’t want this to leak!  So, to test that, I set the box on a paper towel and carefully filled it with water. I left it sitting there for a bit and I didn’t see any water leaks – no oozing or dribbling or anything.  (That spot in front of the box was from me dripping as I was filing the lubricator box :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161c-PumpHousing-2-DSC_1088.jpg)

After making sure it didn’t leak, I moved on to cleaning up the heads of the screws that were used to hold things together during soldering.  Here I’ve just skimmed a thou off the front face.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161c-PumpHousing-3-DSC_1090.jpg)

After doing this to all sides of the box, I’m now ready to drill some holes and cut the mounting ears.  That will be tomorrow’s task.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 13, 2022, 11:11:54 PM
Great result, glad you were able to get outside again.


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2022, 05:12:34 AM
Thanks Chris! Me too!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 14, 2022, 11:10:54 AM
Hello Kim, good work!
I'm curious about the inside of the pump. How is the oil pumped? There's a lot of variants. Also how it is driven. But we'll see.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 14, 2022, 12:59:22 PM
A nice job there.  Another method would be to hollow out a block of metal.  This is what is done by AME on the larger oilers.  Back when they were made by the former owners in FL the sides were made from individual sheets like you're doing, and it was very labor intensive.  Milling from solid saves a lot of time.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2022, 05:12:13 PM
Hello Kim, good work!
I'm curious about the inside of the pump. How is the oil pumped? There's a lot of variants. Also how it is driven. But we'll see.

Michael

Thanks Michael!

Kozo's design for the lubricator pump is a simple ram pump being driven by a scotch-yoke style drive, and that drive is being turned by a ratchet wheel that takes 20 turns of the drive wheels to complete one full cycle. I'm sure my description isn't very satisfying, but as you say, it should all come together over the next few days/weeks! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 14, 2022, 05:22:51 PM
A nice job there.  Another method would be to hollow out a block of metal.  This is what is done by AME on the larger oilers.  Back when they were made by the former owners in FL the sides were made from individual sheets like you're doing, and it was very labor intensive.  Milling from solid saves a lot of time.

Thanks Kvom!  :cheers:

Who's AME?  I should probably know, but I don't.

I can see cutting from solid being a good solution for a production situation - maybe cast would be even better!  But for me, the cost of a solid block, then all the work to mill it out, I'm not sure it would save a lot of time for one-off, would it? Maybe it would.  If they found it did, I'm sure it did.  But not material cost.  Again, cast would probably come out ahead there. And you'd be trading off the cost of casting vs the cost of machining for the solid block.

There are many ways to skin a cat, as is often said!

I actually found this to be a fairly satisfying process :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2022, 12:17:56 AM
First task – cut the sight window into the pump housing.  To do this, I started by drilling 1/4" holes in each corner of the opening.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-01-DSC_1110.jpg)

Then connect them with a 1/4" end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-02-DSC_1112.jpg)

Then I cut the recess for the piece of glass, again using the 1/4" end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-03-DSC_1115.jpg)

And followed it up with a 1/16” end mill to sharpen the four corners.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-04-DSC_1118.jpg)

With the recess and window opened I drilled #3-48 close-fit holes for mounting.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-05-DSC_1120.jpg)

Then flipped the box on end to cut the mounting tabs to size.  I did this on both sides, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-06-DSC_1123.jpg)

On the bottom, I reamed a 1/4" hole.  This will be the pass-through for the pump itself.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-07-DSC_1126.jpg)


And on the back, I made another 1/4" hole for the drive shaft and two 0-80 tapped holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-08-DSC_1128.jpg)

The only thing left is to epoxy the glass in the recess over the opening.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-09-DSC_1132.jpg)

And, after some quick clean-up (my JB Weld got all over the place!) it looks pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/161d-PumpHousing-10-DSC_1136.jpg)

And there you have it, the Pump Housing is now complete!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2022, 12:22:33 AM
Chapter 21.2 – Cover

Next up is the cover for the pump housing.

I’d cut the blank from the 0.040” steel stock earlier.  So after cleaning up the edges to the correct width, I drilled a hole on one side in the center.  In practice, I believe this hole is simply to help you get ahold of the cover to slide it open.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-1-DSC_1081.jpg)

Then thinned the long portion down by about 1/16” on each side.  This needs to be a sliding fit in the two groves on the sides of the pump housing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-2-DSC_1093.jpg)

And now to test it:  Yup it fits!  (after a few tries anyway! – I wanted to sneak up on it rather than overshoot, you know?)  O:-)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-3-DSC_1096.jpg)

And the observant among you will notice that the pump housing isn’t complete in this picture.  I actually did most of the cover yesterday while the pump housing was sitting in the pickle bath.  I just chose to post it in the order that Kozo does things in his book.  Yeah, I do take liberties from time to time  :embarassed:

Now all that’s left to do is to round off the front of the cover – the pull tab you’d call it, I guess.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-4-DSC_1103.jpg)

And here’s the completed cover.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-5-DSC_1106.jpg)

And here it is in its place of importance on the top of the (now completed) pump housing!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-6-DSC_1139.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/162a-Cover-7-DSC_1140.jpg)

Next, I’ll start on the pump body.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 15, 2022, 01:10:34 AM
Very nice shop elf apartment. I mean, pump housing!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 15, 2022, 05:23:09 AM
Very nice shop elf apartment. I mean, pump housing!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

And a nice big picture window!  A room with a view  :Lol:

Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2022, 05:42:49 PM
Chapter 21.3 – Pump Body

The pump body for the lubricator starts like the pump body for the feedwater pump.  With an output port.  This is made from 1/4" 360 brass rod, threaded 12-32, and will be silver soldered in the pump body proper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163a-PumpBody-1-DSC_1143.jpg)

Next, we start work on the pump body itself.  This is cut from 5/16” hex 360 brass.  The stair steps here are at 1/4" (to be threaded 1/4-32) and .200”.  In this photo I’ve just finished reaming the inner hole for the pump plunger.  Kozo specifies to make the plunger out of 0.100” stock and to ream this hole 0.100”.  Since I can’t find 0.100” stock readily available, I chose to use 0.093” stock (3/32”), therefore I reamed this at 3/32”.  I doubt the slightly smaller size for the plunger will have too detrimental effect on the amount of oil provided to the system. (He says optimistically  :embarassed:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163a-PumpBody-2-DSC_1146.jpg)

I would have normally cut the 1/4-32 threads here but apparently, I don’t have a 1/4-32 die.  So I’ve ordered one and it should arrive on Saturday.

After cutting a groove for the oil inlets, I cut off the part from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163a-PumpBody-3-DSC_1148.jpg)

I then moved to the mill and mounted the part in a square 5C collet block to drill the oil inlet holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163a-PumpBody-4-DSC_1152.jpg)

That’s as far as I got yesterday.  Next, I’ll be drilling the receiving hole for the output port and silver soldering it in place.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 16, 2022, 05:57:56 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 05:34:23 PM
Thanks, CNR! :)

Continuing with the pump body, I flipped it around, holding it in a 5C collet, carefully aligned one of the flats of the hex to be horizontal, then drilled a 5/32” hole to receive the output port.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163b-PumpBody-1-DSC_1155.jpg)

Following this, I inserted the previously made output port into that newly created hole, added some flux, and silver soldered it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163b-PumpBody-2-DSC_1158.jpg)

After a short pickle bath (too short, clearly) put the pump body in the lathe, holding the round end in a collet, and proceeded to shape the ball seat.  I started by drilling a hole most of the way with a drill (#15, I believe) then used a 0.180” D bit that I just made to finish off the hole and make the slightly angled ball seat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163b-PumpBody-3-DSC_1160.jpg)

Next, I tapped the end 12-32.  This shows a taper tap, which I started with, but I have a bottom tap that I used to make the threads go down farther without messing up the ball seat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163b-PumpBody-4-DSC_1164.jpg)
After this I reamed out the hole a bit, per plan, to give the fitting a better seat to connect against (rather than directly against the threads).

And here’s the completed pump body.  Well, nearly completed; I still haven’t received the 1/4"-32 die for the threads along the top of the pump body – you can see where that’s missing.  I’ll add that later once the die arrives.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/163b-PumpBody-5-DSC_1178.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2022, 05:36:45 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 05:38:41 PM
Thank you, Chris!  :cheers:
You're really on top of things today!  ^-^
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 05:41:05 PM
Chapter 21.4 – Plug and Nut

Next up are the Plug and Nut that fit on either end of the pump body.

First the plug.  A simple turning exercise from 1/4" 360 hex brass stock.  This fits on the bottom of the pump body and will hold the spring and ball in place on the output side of the pump.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/164a-PlugAndNut-1-DSC_1167.jpg)

And now for the nut.  This goes on top of the pump body to hold it in place.  It’s made from 3/8” 360 brass hex bar.  This shows me adding the 1/4"–32 internal threads that will mate with the (as yet uncut) 1/4”-32 threads on the pump body.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/164a-PlugAndNut-2-DSC_1170.jpg)

Next, I opened up the base of the nut to 5/16”.  This will allow space for the oil to reach the input ports of the pump body.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/164a-PlugAndNut-3-DSC_1172.jpg)

And these six holes around the outside edge allow the oil to flow into that space.  These were done on the mill with the part held in hex collet, in a 5C hex block.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/164a-PlugAndNut-4-DSC_1174.jpg)
With that op completed I took it back to the lathe and cut off the nut to the correct length.

And here are the completed plug and nut!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/164a-PlugAndNut-5-DSC_1180.jpg)

Two more parts are done!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2022, 05:44:51 PM
Thank you, Chris!  :cheers:
You're really on top of things today!  ^-^
Kim
Just Dumbus Luckus (latin for good planning?  :Lol: ) that I happened to click on the page and reply just after you posted.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 05:48:17 PM
Chapter 21.5 – Plunger

After the plug and nut comes the plunger.  This is just a 3/32” rod (for the plunger) with a bronze scotch-yoke style bearing on the top to connect with the crank.  (Again, Kozo specifies a 0.100” rod for the plunger, but I opted to go with a more readily available 3/32” rod (0.093”).

I started with the bearing gizmo for the top of the plunger, since this was the more complex part.  I made this from 1/2" bearing bronze (932).  The piece I had was 6-7” long.  I was hoping to get away without having to cut it since I’d have to cut the piece long so I’d have something to hold onto, thus creating more waste.  But I was worried that having so much sticking could cause a problem.  However, in practice, it worked out OK. I took smallish cuts and wasn’t too aggressive on feed rates.  Plus, the bearing bronze machines are quite easily.  Very similar to brass.  Here I’m doing a rough centering job by doing a visual center on the 1/2" end mill.  I didn’t need it super accurate since the final part fit easily inside the 1/2" diameter with some to spare.  And I made all my measurements reference the center of the circle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-1-DSC_1184.jpg)

The first thing I did (after facing it flat) was to shave off the top and bottom of the cylinder to get the part with.  Then, using a number drill, that was just under 1/16”, I drilled a row of holes for the bearing slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-2-DSC_1186.jpg)

And followed that with a 1/16” end mill to finish up the slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-3-DSC_1189.jpg)

Then I cut the plunger head off the stock with a slitting saw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-4-DSC_1192.jpg)

Next, I needed to drill a hole for the actual plunger to mount to.  This needs to be a little off-center to make the force from the crank be more closely centered over the plunger on the downward stroke – which will be the ‘power’ stroke on the pump.
To find the edges of my hole, I wedged a bunch of small gauge pins (and a 1/16” drill bit) in the hole to allow me to ‘feel’ the edge. It wasn’t perfect, but I think it got me close enough!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-5-DSC_1195.jpg)

Then I drilled a 1/16” hole for the plunger.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-6-DSC_1200.jpg)

Next, to the belt sander, using my fancy rounding jig, I profiled the head of the plunger.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-7-DSC_1203.jpg)

And there you have the top of the plunger.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165a-Plunger-8-DSC_1204.jpg)

Next up, of course, is to complete the plunger.

But this brings us up to date with my progress.  Thanks for checking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 05:49:17 PM
Thank you, Chris!  :cheers:
You're really on top of things today!  ^-^
Kim
Just Dumbus Luckus (latin for good planning?  :Lol: ) that I happened to click on the page and reply just after you posted.
I like that!
I think I do a lot of 'Latin planning' myself  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 10:15:20 PM
This morning my 1/4-32 die arrived!  So I finished up the pump body:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165b-Plunger-1-DSC_1207.jpg)

Now, to finish up the plunger.
All that’s left is to cut a 3/32” Stainless rod to length and cut a little nubbin on it to fit in the 1/16” hole in the crank bearing.  So I did that.  It was so easy I forgot to take pictures.  But there it is, ready to be glued together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165b-Plunger-2-DSC_1208.jpg)

Kozo recommends Loctite for these items.  Not sure why he didn’t silver solder them. I considered it but decided he may have his reasons. One possible reason that I came up with was that heating up that tiny rod might cause it to warp some, which wouldn’t be good for this application.  But who knows?  Regardless, I went ahead and used Loctite.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/165b-Plunger-3-DSC_1212.jpg)

And that completes the plunger for the lubricator pump.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2022, 10:19:33 PM
Chapter 21.6 – Crank
Now I’ll tackle the crank.

I made the crank disk from a scrap piece of 3/8” 303 stainless steel rod.  I turned it down to the specified 23/64” and drilled the middle hole to be tapped 5-44. (no pic... I forgot!  :embarassed:)

But before I tapped the hole, I moved the part and collet over to the mill (in a square collet block), Indexed off the center hole, and drilled and reamed a 1/16” hole for the crank pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/166-Crank-1-DSC_1215.jpg)

Back to the lathe, I then tapped the center hole (5-44), then cut off the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/166-Crank-2-DSC_1219.jpg)

Then I cut a short length of 1/16” piano wire for the crank pin.  Kozo recommends cutting the shank of an appropriately sized drill to use for the crank pin, but I chose to go with the piano wire believing it to be plenty hard for this application (not to mention it won’t ruin one of my drill bits!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/166-Crank-3-DSC_1222.jpg)

And finally, the two parts are cleaned and Loctited together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/166-Crank-4-DSC_1225.jpg)


And with that, I was ready to come in for a late lunch.
Thanks for stopping by for a visit!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 19, 2022, 04:44:53 AM
 :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 19, 2022, 10:57:39 PM
Thank you, CNR!  :cheers:

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 19, 2022, 10:57:49 PM
Chapter 21.7 – Ratchet Wheel

Today I’m focusing on the ratchet wheel.  This wheel is slowly turned by the movement of the eccentric rod and the ratchet keeps it rotating in the forward direction.

I took a piece of 1/2" W-1 steel, turned it to the required size, then move it into a collet spinner.  This lets me index my way around the wheel cutting ratchet teeth, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/167a-RatchetWheel-1-DSC_1230.jpg)

With the teeth cut (there are 20 of them) I moved it back to the lathe, drilled and reamed the center hole then cut it off to width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/167a-RatchetWheel-2-DSC_1232.jpg)

Kozo recommends heat-treating the ratchet wheel, so I did that next.  I learned this technique from Dave Otto – suspend the part being heat treated by a magnet over the water, then heat it up.  When it gets hot enough for heat treatment, it becomes non-magnetic and falls off into the water.  This method works quite well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/167a-RatchetWheel-3-DSC_1238.jpg)

Then I turned the short shaft for the ratchet wheel (no pictures of that).  Here are the two parts, the shaft, and the ratchet wheel.  I’ll wait to Loctite it together till I get further along, to make sure I get it attached in the correct place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/167a-RatchetWheel-4-DSC_1239.jpg)

And that’s it for today’s update.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 19, 2022, 11:07:20 PM
Neat trick with the magnet!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 20, 2022, 01:19:07 AM
I remember back in the 1980's a writer for Live Steam magazine, Chas. O C Darling, mentioned he hung a bar magnet from a string in his shop. This was used to test the attraction, or lack of it, on red hot bars of steel, for the same purpose of knowing when it was ready for quenching. It's an old and very useful technique. Mr Hiraoka knows all the tricks!

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2022, 05:05:06 AM
Thanks Chris & CNR!

I remember back in the 1980's a writer for Live Steam magazine, Chas. O C Darling, mentioned he hung a bar magnet from a string in his shop. This was used to test the attraction, or lack of it, on red hot bars of steel, for the same purpose of knowing when it was ready for quenching. It's an old and very useful technique. Mr Hiraoka knows all the tricks!

Yes, he certainly does!  However, to give proper credit, I learned THIS trick from Dave Otto, on our forum!   

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 20, 2022, 07:14:21 PM
I also use the magnet trick for hardening small parts.  I'm not sure how good it is on thicker sections  :thinking:  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2022, 09:19:04 PM
Yeah, I could see how with a bigger part you might not be getting the whole thing up to temperature.  But the technique does seem to work pretty well for these little parts!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 20, 2022, 09:19:51 PM
Chapter 21.8 – Bushing and Nut

Only a little time in the shop today but I managed to turn out a couple of small parts.  The bushing to hold the lubricator crankshaft in the pump housing, and the nut to fasten it with.

Both parts were turned from 5/16” hex brass stock. Very easy and quick:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/168a-BushingAndNut-1-DSC_1243.jpg)

Not a lot, but a little progress nevertheless!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2022, 10:22:45 PM
Chapter 21.9 – Pawl Bracket and Lever

The next parts for the lubricator are the Pawl Bracket, which as the name implies, will hold the spring pawl for the ratchet wheel, and the Lever, which will connect the eccentric rod to the ratchet wheel.

The pawl bracket is fairly simple. The only thing that complicates it is the small size and the fact that all of its dimensions are non-standard, so I had to mill all sides to get the correct sized block.  It started as a 1/2" length of 1/4" x 3/8” 1018 CRS but was finished down on all sides

But after that, it was just drilling 2 mounting holes (close fit for #0 screws):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-1-DSC_1249.jpg)

Then drilling and tapping the mounting holes for one of the spring pawls:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-2-DSC_1252.jpg)

And here’s the little puppy after machining:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-3-DSC_1254.jpg)

The lever isn’t much more complex.  It was made from 5/16” square 12L14 stock.  After trimming to length, I drilled and reamed a 1/8” hole for the ratchet wheel shaft on one end, and a 5/64” hole for the pin that will mate with the eccentric rod on the other.  Only the 1/8” hole has been completed here:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-4-DSC_1257.jpg)

On the side, I drilled and tapped two 0-80 holes for the other spring pawl.  You can also see where I did some marking on the part.  Not for accuracy, but to make sure I put the holes and notches in the correct places.  This part is NOT symmetric in any way.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-5-DSC_1260.jpg)

Lastly, I cut the notches out of either end of the lever.  One notch is for the ratchet wheel and the other for the eccentric rod.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-6-DSC_1265.jpg)

And that wraps up the lever:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/169a-PawlBracketAndLever-7-DSC_1267.jpg)

Couple more pieces complete!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 22, 2022, 02:55:55 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2022, 10:37:12 PM
Thanks CNR!  :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2022, 10:51:29 PM
Apparently, I wasn’t completely done with the lever yesterday.  It still needed a pin to connect to the eccentric rod.  So I quickly turned up the pin and Loctited it into the lever:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-1-DSC_1272.jpg)


Chapter 21.10 – Spring Pawls
Now to the little spring pawls that make the ratchet mechanism work.

I made these from some of that metal strapping tape that comes wrapped around big heavy boxes.  I can't remember how long I've had it but I remember when it came in I thought "Hey, sprint steel!  This could come in useful someday!"   So I've saved it for years and looky here - now I get to use it!

Here I’m drilling two little #52 holes for 0-80 screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-2-DSC_1275.jpg)

After cutting them to size and sanding to clean up the edges, here are the two spring pawls:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-3-DSC_1278.jpg)

Now all the parts of the lubricator pump itself are complete.  Still have the eccentric rod and strap to go, but that’ll come later.  Now I’m going to assemble the pump.  And here are all the pieces that go into the lubricator pump:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-4-DSC_1281.jpg)

Before assembling I tested the pump/ram mechanism to make sure it would pump.  Turns out it doesn’t pump water at all because there’s no o-ring seal around the ram.  But when I tried oil, it worked fine.  It doesn’t move a ton of oil, but it would send out tiny spurts, but that’s all that’s needed. Kozo refers to this in his book saying the viscosity of the oil allows you to get away without having an o-ring here.  Apparently, he’s right. Who knew?  :Lol:

While assembling it, I discovered that one of the spring pawls just doesn’t reach the ratchet wheel when it’s the specified length of 1/2".  So I quickly made another one that was 1/8” longer.  That worked. I still may have to fiddle with the lengths a little bit, but at least it demonstrates the working of the pump mechanism.

Here it is all assembled – from the outside:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-5-DSC_1287.jpg)

And from the inside  (kind-of):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/170a-SpringPawls-6-DSC_1290.jpg)

I took a video to show the ratchet working.  It’s pretty cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCThHk_wnls

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2022, 10:54:47 PM
Sweet!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2022, 11:14:22 PM
Thanks, Chris!

And I wanted to mention to everyone that previously I stated that I was not using stainless steel balls for my pumps.  Which is correct. But what was incorrect is that I said I was using nitrile balls.  I'm not.  I'm actually using Si Nitride balls.

I went back and changed that on my previous posts, but I wanted to make a note of it here since I doubt that many of us go back and re-read old posts!  :Lol:

Regardless, I'm sorry if my mistake caused you any confusion.  Hopefully, I'll be sure to state the correct name of the material going forward!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 23, 2022, 12:35:01 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

That works great Kim! well done. Like a Swiss watch! (if a Swiss watch had an oil pump)  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 23, 2022, 01:13:59 AM
Some fine work going on here.  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 23, 2022, 01:20:17 AM
Looks great Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2022, 05:23:49 AM
Thank you CNR, Don, and Dave!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 23, 2022, 10:04:24 AM
Hello Kim, I like the construction of the ratchet drive. I'm considering rebuilding my oil pump on the Stuart 5A. I use a needle bearing freewheel there. As soon as oil gets close to it, the drive fails.
Very good work Kim 👍

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2022, 05:30:26 PM
Thank you Michael!  :cheers:
Best of luck on the rebuild of the oil pump for your Stuart engine!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 23, 2022, 07:50:46 PM
Good to see another fine little sub-assembly leave the productionline and passing the test  :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:   :popcorn:   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2022, 12:04:31 AM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:

Unfortunately, the QC department kicked it back for rework, as you'll see in today's update.

But NOW I think it's ready for use! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2022, 12:16:03 AM
Well, you know that sinking feeling you get when you notice something doesn’t look quite right?  Well, I got that feeling yesterday after I posted my update.  I was watching the video of the ratchet wheel turning the pump crank and it suddenly dawned on me that the pump plunger was supposed to be under the crank pin during the downward stroke of the pump.  The downward stroke is the one that will be under the most load, since it’s squishing the oil, under pressure, into the system.

And what you’ll notice in the video is that the crank pin is FAR from the plunger on the downward stroke.   :facepalm:  What's going on?

So, I spent some time investigating this today and found that I’d drilled the hole for the pump body on the wrong side of the pump housing.  It is supposed to be offset 1/16” to one side.  I just happened to get the wrong side.  How’d I do that you might ask?  I certainly asked that question!

Turns out that the diagram for the pump shows the hole from the TOP, not the BOTTOM, which is what I’d assumed.  So the offset happened on the incorrect side.

This is at the start of play today – the crank is moving up (sucking oil into the chamber, not under pressure.  But the crank pin is close to the plunger.  This is backward.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-01-DSC_1291.jpg)

What to do?  After cogitating on this overnight, the plan I came up with was to silver solder a plug in the hole and re-drill.  I thought it sounded like a great plan, so I got to work.

Here’s me turning the plug from a piece of CRS. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-02-DSC_1295.jpg)

Here’s the housing, the plug, and a couple of pieces of sheet steel that I grabbed out of the scrap bin to use to cover the glass.  My hope was that by covering the glass with the sheet I could avoid breaking the glass during the silver soldering. Solid plan, right?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-03-DSC_1297.jpg)

Here’s the part setup on the operating table, ready for the repair work to begin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-04-DSC_1305.jpg)

I used black flux, which I always use on steel and larger parts since it takes longer to get them up to temp.  You can see just a bit of the solder ring sticking out of the black flux along the top of the plug.  I’d made a few dimples in the plug to help keep it centered and to provide enough friction that it wouldn’t fall out during soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-05-DSC_1303.jpg)

The soldering operation went great!  But the glass came out cracked in the end.  Ah well, I’ve got another 97 microscope slides that I can use to cut a new piece of glass for it.

Here I’m set up in the mill, just getting ready to shave off the bottom of the plug.  I didn’t pickle it very well… I was too impatient.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-06-DSC_1309.jpg)

But it’s clear that the solder penetrated the repair joint quite well!  I’m pleased!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-07-DSC_1311.jpg)

And then I had to mill off the top of the plug on the inside.  No before picture here, just the after.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-08-DSC_1307.jpg)

Now, to drill the hole for the pump body in the CORRECT place this time.  You can see the faint outline of the plug I soldered in place – it’s only off from the correct hole by 1/8”.  It was supposed to be offset 1/16” from the center line.  I went the wrong way the first time. So going 1/16” the correct way this time, makes 1/8” total.  That looks promising, doesn’t it?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-09-DSC_1316.jpg)

And here, to compare with the plans.  I wrote “TOP” on this picture now – I guess for the NEXT time I make one of these :).  But you can see how if you interpreted this view to be a BOTTOM view, the hole would be on the opposite side of center.  Ah well…  Live and learn (he says optimistically).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-10-DSC_1321.jpg)

And here’s the after picture.  I decided not to put a piece of glass in till after I’ve painted the housing.  I was worrying about how well the glass would survive the powder coating oven anyway.  Nothing else on this unit will be painted. Well, maybe the pawl bracket and/or lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-11-DSC_1323.jpg)

And here are the before and after pictures right next to each other – hopefully, this makes it more clear on how offsetting the plunger on one side or the other affected things.  The picture on the left is the BEFORE shot.  The crank pin is on the way UP and is more closely centered over the plunger (this is backward).  The picture on the right is the AFTER shot.  The crank pin is now moving downward and is closer to the plunger, which is CORRECT since this is the stroke that requires more power – pushing the oil into the system.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/171a-FixingThePumpHousing-12-BeforeAfterSideBySide.jpg)

Note that the plunger cam follower thing (scotch yoke) is also reversed in the before/after pictures too.  That was another clue that things were wrong.

But I’ve got it turned around now. And all it cost me was a day’s effort in the shop!

That’s a bargain, right?!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 24, 2022, 12:33:41 AM
Nice save Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 24, 2022, 02:40:08 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

offset holes to the wrong side have never ever happened in my workshop. (more than 920 times, anyway)  :Lol:

Nice recovery. Save the broken glass in case you ever want to make a diorama with the locomotive in the roundhouse. You can pose an apprentice figure and an irate foreman next to a little pile of the shards!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2022, 05:31:49 AM
Thanks Dave and CNR!

:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

offset holes to the wrong side have never ever happened in my workshop. (more than 920 times, anyway)  :Lol:

Nice recovery. Save the broken glass in case you ever want to make a diorama with the locomotive in the roundhouse. You can pose an apprentice figure and an irate foreman next to a little pile of the shards!  :Lol:

That would be great!  :ThumbsUp: Unfortunately, the glass shattered as I was trying to take it out.  It chipped out in a little pile of sharp dust so I doubt it would be useful for a diorama.  But I've got a bunch more pieces of glass I could break in more strategic ways for the diorama!  I'll probably be doing some strategic glass breaking soon anyway, so I'll keep track of those pieces for future use.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2022, 10:28:24 PM
Today I painted the pumps and replaced the glass in the lubricator pump.   Here they are, painted and re-assembled, with gasketless Loctite seal used on the various connections.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/172a-PaintingThePumps-1-DSC_1328.jpg)

I also made some more springs.  Turns out the ones I had made before were made from piano wire.  Duh… not a good material to use when the spring will be in contact with water!  So I made some new ones using stainless steel wire.  Not hard, just a job that needed to be done.

Now I’m starting on the eccentric rod & strap for the lubricator pump.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 25, 2022, 12:57:45 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 25, 2022, 08:10:06 AM
Glad you got those little problems solved  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 25, 2022, 08:18:39 PM
Thanks CRN and Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: petertha on September 29, 2022, 04:03:44 AM
Here they are, painted and re-assembled

Very nice. Maybe you said in some of your earlier posts, but what kind of paint/application are you using? They look very nice particularly at this reduced scale.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2022, 05:17:51 AM
Thanks, Petertha,
Yes, I'm powder-coating all the parts.  I really like that process so much better than spray paint!  I'm not so fond of the whole painting thing - I always get a mess and it's sticky or runs or whatever (read as - I'm not very good at it!).  But the powder coating works so much better for me. I find powder coating a more enjoyable process and get much more satisfactory and more durable results!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2022, 11:17:36 PM
Chapter 21.11 – Eccentric Strap
The final part for the lubricator is the eccentric rod and strap.

This one is made exactly the same as the one for the feedwater pump, so I didn’t bother to take any pics.  If you go back to that episode and reread it, you’ll have exactly the same experience!  (Here's the link for it, just in case you're actually interested :)  (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg254843.html#msg254843))

Here’s the completed Eccentric Rod and Strap:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/173a-EccentricStrap-1-DSC_1329.jpg)

One oops here… you might have noticed an extra hole (or starting of one at least) on the face in front of the oil cup? In this picture, the oil cup is facing downward, so just to the left of that.  This is where I STARTED to drill the oil cup but luckily noticed before I got too far into it.  I could kick myself for that!  But I reoriented the part and drilled it in the right place and it should be totally functional.  It just has that extra beauty mark on the side face now…  :embarassed:

Ah well.  Live and (hopefully) learn.   I don’t think I’ll do it over.  Once it’s together you can’t see that anyway.  So, the only way anyone would know about my booboo is if they bother to read the hundreds of posts I have here on my build!  And if someone is willing to do that, they are welcome to my dirty little secrets, you know?  :Lol:

Thanks for checking in on me,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 30, 2022, 02:29:20 AM
That feature on the front face is probably a device to slow down any oil drips to retain them to the assembly as long as possible... that would be my story!  :Lol:

If you can't easily fix it - feature it!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2022, 05:17:34 AM
That feature on the front face is probably a device to slow down any oil drips to retain them to the assembly as long as possible... that would be my story!  :Lol:

If you can't easily fix it - feature it!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Thanks CNR!  I like that story.  Don't know why Kozo didn't include that feature in his drawings!  I've just made improvements to his work  ;D

And now, looking at that picture, I realized I still need to take down the sides on the strap where it connects to the eccentric rod.  I forgot to do that today.  I'll catch it first thing tomorrow.

I also considered filing down the edge of the oil cup surface, but I'm not sure I could get it looking as crisp.  And that might bother me more than just leaving it as is...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 30, 2022, 11:04:41 AM
Quote
It just has that extra beauty mark on the side face now…  :embarassed:

... and me who thought that it was a recessed Quality Stamp ....  ;)

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 30, 2022, 11:27:14 AM
Hello Kim, at first I thought the hole was set completely wrong. But the hole is only drilled.
It wouldn't have been bad and you would have tapped both holes.
And the hole that is not needed is closed with a cap. So a combined eccentric for both installation options. Vertical or Horizontal.

But again a beautiful part that is finished.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 30, 2022, 12:52:47 PM
Oil cup for that eccentric could be hard to access being between the frames.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2022, 06:05:18 PM
Quote
It just has that extra beauty mark on the side face now…  :embarassed:

... and me who thought that it was a recessed Quality Stamp ....  ;)

Per
That's it, Per!  That's what it is!   :ROFL:


Hello Kim, at first I thought the hole was set completely wrong. But the hole is only drilled.
It wouldn't have been bad and you would have tapped both holes.
And the hole that is not needed is closed with a cap. So a combined eccentric for both installation options. Vertical or Horizontal.

But again a beautiful part that is finished.

Michael
Hmm.... good idea, Michael!  I should have done that.  I still could, but then I'd have to re-drill the oil hole.  Not too big of a chore. I may have to consider this!


Oil cup for that eccentric could be hard to access being between the frames.
Good point there, Kvom.  Yeah, those oil cups won't be easy to access for sure.  It must be possible though... (he says optimistically)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 30, 2022, 06:56:20 PM
hello Kim, that with the cap was just an idea of ​​mine. I would leave it as it is. And if I could fix the problem at all, I would solder the hole shut with soft solder and go over it with a file.

Perhaps the oil cup can be attached to the frame from the outside and a pipe leads the oil to the eccentric ring.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2022, 10:36:48 PM
Thanks, Michael,

The eccentric straps won't really have an official oiler.  They just have a small hole to act as a little oil reservoir for lubrication.  And I think there will be enough room between the running board and the frame to get the spout of an oil can in there to place a few drops of oil in each of these oil cups.

Guess we'll see.  But there have been a LOT of these A3's built using Kozo's plans so I'm betting this isn't an insurmountable issue!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 30, 2022, 10:49:58 PM
Today I did the final step on the eccentric strap of tapering the edges of the eccentric rod tabs to match the profile of the eccentric rod.

Then I mounted it between the eccentric and the pump lever then proceeded to make sure it worked.  Of course, it didn’t.  The lever moved, but if there was any pressure on the pump mechanism the ratchet wheel wouldn't advance.

I had done the math on this and it was clear that Kozo designed the eccentric throw (1/4”) and lever length to have just the right amount of travel to move exactly ONE click of the ratchet.  However, that means that you have to start the throw with the lever ratchet JUST past one of the teeth.  If you start the throw halfway before the tooth, then when you move the full throw you only have it halfway to the next tooth, and the upper pawl won’t engage the next tooth.  And this is exactly what was happening to me.

I'm sure there are multiple solutions for this, but what I did was to adjust the length of the spring pawl on the lever.  I made it the correct length to just pick up the tooth at the farthest extent of the throw.  This meant that as it went back the other way the maximum possible rotation (which isn’t much) would be imparted to the ratchet wheel, thus guaranteeing that the upper pawl would engage with the next tooth.

Luckily, I'd foreseen this problem and when I remade that spring pawl I left it a little long.  The new length was still longer than the 1/2" specified by Kozo.  Not by much, but enough to make a difference.  The teeth on that wheel are just about 1/16", so the lengths of those pawls are very critical!

Sorry for the clunky explanation, but the fix worked!

Here’s a shot of both pumps (feed water and lubrication) and eccentrics installed.  This is right side up, so the oil cups could actually be filled and the oil wouldn’t run out.  The back eccentric is for the feed water pump, and the front one is for the lubricator.  Note the lubricator cover is not in place in this photo so you can (kind of) see the internals of the pump.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/173b-EccentricStrap-1-DSC_1336.jpg)

And here’s a shot with the cover installed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/173b-EccentricStrap-2-DSC_1340.jpg)

I also adjusted the eccentrics so that they were 180o out of phase.  I figured this would spread the load of the pumps more evenly across the full rotation of the wheels.

Next up is the Grate and Ashpan!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 01, 2022, 01:28:38 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Grate great to hear!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 01, 2022, 06:11:26 AM
Grate great to hear!
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 01, 2022, 11:25:15 AM
Nice to see them both in-situ  :ThumbsUp:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 03, 2022, 10:48:20 PM
Yes it is! Thanks Per! :)


Chapter 22.1 – Grate

Over the weekend and today I worked on the grate.  This is, of course, the grate for the coals in the firebox.

The main bars for the grate were cut from 1/8” x 1/2" 303 stainless steel bar.  I would have liked to use 3/8” instead, but all I could source was 1/2".  So I had to cut it down to width.

Here are the 8 bars, all sandwiched together, with 1/8” holes drilled in them.  I lined them up on 1/8” rod to keep them all uniform.  Here I was cutting them to width (3/8” as discussed above) and to length – some off of both ends to make the holes a specific distance from each end (7/8” to be exact).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-1-DSC_1346.jpg)

Then I chamfered the ends of the bars.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-2-DSC_1348.jpg)

Next, I moved to the lathe and cut a bunch of little 1/4" stainless steel donuts to use as spacers between the bars.  I drilled the 1/8” center hole in about 1” which gave me room to cutoff about 5 of the little donuts.  Then I’d slide the rod out a bit and do another chunk of them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-3-DSC_1353.jpg)

It took a while, but I got all of them cut.  I need 18 of them but did 20 as a tax to the shop gnomes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-4-DSC_1357.jpg)

Here I’ve lined up the full suite of bars and spacers to see what the final width will be.  It’s SUPPOSED to be 2 5/16” when I’m done.  You can see that this is about 47 thou over the goal.  I’ll trim it down to the required width pretty soon. But to assemble it all, I wanted to make sure I cut the 1/8” support rods long enough that they’d fit. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-5-DSC_1360.jpg)

So, after cutting two lengths of 1/8” 303 stainless steel rod to my 3.60” that I determined above, I drilled a small center hole in each end of the rods. (no pic – it didn’t look like much).

For the outer four spacer donuts, I chamfered the inside hole just a bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-6-DSC_1365.jpg)

Now, to carefully assemble the bars and spacers:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-7-DSC_1368.jpg)

After getting it all assembled I used a 60o punch to flare out the 1/8” SS rods on the ends to lock everything in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-8-DSC_1374.jpg)

And there you have it – the completed grate!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/174a-Grate-9-DSC_1377.jpg)

Remeasuring after all the pounding, the width is now ~2.330”  So I’m only about 18 thou over where I need to be (2 5/16" = 3.3125 for all of you metric people).  And that’s right on!  The outer spacer donuts are supposed to be just a tad thinner than all the inner spacers.  I just chose to make them all the same and to trim it up after the fact – after I’m ready to fit the grate between the brackets!

So I’m pretty pleased.  The grate has a very satisfying heft to it!  And it was oddly fun to build!

Thanks for looking in on me,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 03, 2022, 10:56:45 PM


Thats Grate!   (got the pun in first!)   :Jester:

More excellent work!


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 03, 2022, 11:00:31 PM
Thanks Chris!   :cheers:

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but CNR beat you to the pun(ch) a few posts back.  If you look in post 1921 you'll see that he used the grate/great pun a few days ago.

But a good pun is good even the second time around, right?  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 03, 2022, 11:01:42 PM
Thanks Chris!   :cheers:

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but CNR beat you to the pun(ch) a few posts back.  If you look in post 1921 you'll see that he used the grate/great pun a few days ago.

But a good pun is good even the second time around, right?  :ROFL:

Kim
Ah, well, I'll keep trying!  And watching along!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 04, 2022, 03:22:19 AM
All I can say Chris is that I was makin puns and you was probably makin parts!  :Lol: (very nice parts, as usual,  I might add)  :cheers:

That day I was up early and ate some weeties, too  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2022, 05:32:05 AM
That day I was up early and ate some weeties, too  :Lol:
No wonder they were EXTRA strong puns that day!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
OK, quick question for you all...

Are my pictures too big?  I know the download size isn't too large. I keep them around 100K or so by using 85% quality on the JPG rendering, but it keeps the detail quite well, I think. But I use 1024x768 as my standard resolution.  Is that too big on people's screens?  Is it annoying? Or does it provide better detail?

I could easily back off to 800x600 if that would be better.

I find 640x480 a bit on the small side for my tastes, but if that's what people prefer, I'd be happy to do that.

I've just started realizing that my images are larger than other people's and I decided it was time to do something about it.  Either change size or not worry about it.

So I thought I'd ask.
Please do provide your candid feedback, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 04, 2022, 05:32:57 PM
Pic sizes you are using are just fine here Kim, thanks!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 04, 2022, 05:52:21 PM
They look fine and download quick on both my tablet and PC.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 04, 2022, 07:23:51 PM
Hello Kim, the size of your pictures is absolutely fine. Even for me. I do everything on the internet just with the mobile phone and it works fine.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 04, 2022, 09:01:42 PM
As I recesntly mentioned in another thread - I love them BIG .... and more and more so the Older the Eyes get  :facepalm2:

I enjoy your pictures - they are easy to look at and see the details  :ThumbsUp:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: jirvin_4505 on October 04, 2022, 11:07:56 PM
Love the detail in your pictures. Big is good
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 05, 2022, 01:30:14 AM
Hi Kim

I usually do 800x600 because that seems to be the accepted standard for this forum. Sometimes I will break the rules and go up to 1024x768 which I prefer.
I think your photos are great, I do prefer the larger resolution.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 06, 2022, 10:41:08 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone.  I guess I'll stick with my 1024x768 size for now.  But if it does cause anyone heartburn, please don't hesitate to mention it, OK?

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 06, 2022, 10:56:08 PM
Chapter 22.2 – Grate Supports

The shop happening this week is the Grate Supports.  A seemingly simple pair of parts, but really, there was a lot of work in these!

But before I started them I decided it was time to tram the mill.  I’ve been meaning to do this for some time and before I started this part seemed like a reasonable time.

So, using my magical retirement gift, I went to work and got it all trammed up.  Yay!  :ThumbsUp:
Then I checked the tram in the reverse direction and realized that I needed to calibrate the tramming tool.  Oh no!  :facepalm2:
So, after calibrating the tool, I re-trammed the mill. And got it pretty close!  Yay.  :cartwheel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-01-DSC_1379.jpg)

I also trammed it in the Y-direction.  But to do that I had to add a little shim to the column since my mill has no ‘nod’ adjustment. If you look closely, you can see a 0.004” feeler gauge sticking in the back of the mill column.  I was surprised it took this much to tram in the y-direction, but it did.  And it’s pretty good now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-02-DSC_1381.jpg)

OK, with that excitement behind me, I started on the supports, which were cut from 1/4" x 5/8” 1018 steel.  They were first taken down from 5/8” to the specified 19/32”.  Odd dimension, but that’s what it calls for. Next, I stacked them together and, after trimming the ends to length, I drilled the mounting holes (which will be threaded 3-48) and the pivot hole for the ash pan (the hole on the right).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-03-DSC_1389.jpg)

There is a support on each side – right and left.  So that was about all I could do with the two parts stacked like that since they are mirror images of each other.  I marked them up to help me be sure to keep their orientation straight.

First, I clamped them together, flat-wise in the mill vise, making sure they were in the correct orientation and proceeded to carve out the shelf that the grate will slide into.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-04-DSC_1393.jpg)

And, without moving the parts, I cut a slightly deeper groove all along the top of each of the parts as indicated in the drawings.  Remember, these parts are mirror images, so the top of each part is facing the middle of the vise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-05-DSC_1396.jpg)

Now to focus on the right support.  It has a few additional features for mounting the latch and spring holder.  I marked those on the part (not for accuracy, but to make sure I was putting them in the right place!) and then drilled the mounting holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-06-DSC_1399.jpg)

And cut some 1/4" wide notches for these two parts (grate latch and spring holder).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-07-DSC_1402.jpg)

The leftmost notch is for the latch and it needs some additional room so that the latch can move back and forth.  Kozo shows cutting a 15o angle on that notch.  To do this, I rigged up some angle blocks to hold the part at the specified angle.  Note, the part is upside down in this picture - I was holding it between my 15o angle blocks by the skinny rail along the bottom of the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-08-DSC_1407.jpg)

And clamped it in the mill vice. Then after finding the center of the notch, I proceeded to widen it to the 15o angle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-09-DSC_1412.jpg)

Next, we need to cut a relief in the end where the ashpan will attach.  This needed to be done at a 45o angle.  I used an angle block to set this up but then slid it out of the way after clamping to avoid damaging the angle block.  The angled cut doesn’t go all the way through the part – slightly less than half. It just has to be deep enough to allow the ashpan to pivot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-10-DSC_1414.jpg)

And finally, to the rounding jig on the sander where I rounded the end and put the specified 25o angle on the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-11-DSC_1418.jpg)

And here are the completed grate supports:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-12-DSC_1420.jpg)

In situ on the back of the engine, under where the firebox will eventually be.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/175a-GrateSupports-13-DSC_1426.jpg)

Looks pretty grate, doesn’t it, CNR and Chris!  (See, I can do it too!)  :ROFL:

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 06, 2022, 11:36:31 PM
Groovy!   ;D




Bout time you got out the tramming tool. Got mine last year, I think, and have used it several times, they work great.  Tools to adjust tools to make better parts with, oh boy!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 06, 2022, 11:59:54 PM
Yoo betcha Kim! It does look grate! Bar ring any clinker issues, that thing should burn coal hot, which will be cool!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2022, 12:06:01 AM
Groovy!   ;D

Bout time you got out the tramming tool. Got mine last year, I think, and have used it several times, they work great.  Tools to adjust tools to make better parts with, oh boy!
Yeah, I've used it before, but it was HIGH time to use it again.  This is, however, the first time I trammed in the Y direction. Silly me...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2022, 12:06:34 AM
Yoo betcha Kim! It does look grate! Bar ring any clinker issues, that thing should burn coal hot, which will be cool!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:

That's the plan!  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on October 07, 2022, 08:40:00 AM
the grate looks nice   will you be game to lite a fire on it ?
i programmed a old  cnc machine a vertical spindle were the head could move as well as the quill but it was .25mm out over 65mm on y axis 
but there was nowhere to adjust   but it still did a lot of good work.it was a heavy machine but it would have taken some major work to alter.

john
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2022, 05:33:06 PM
the grate looks nice   will you be game to lite a fire on it ?
That's  a good question!  I kinda THINK I'll fire it up at least once and get it to run on steam... but then again, I have yet to fire up my steam tractor.  It's run on air many times, but I have yet to steam it up - and I completed that four years ago!  :-X

i programmed a old  cnc machine a vertical spindle were the head could move as well as the quill but it was .25mm out over 65mm on y axis 
but there was nowhere to adjust but it still did a lot of good work.it was a heavy machine but it would have taken some major work to alter.

john

Sounds like I got off easy on the trimming front with just a little shim :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 07, 2022, 08:54:46 PM
When I bought my old Rong Fu clone 9 x 20" mill in early 2000's I paid a significantly reduced price vs other similar mills I looked at because the previous owner said it was "all wonky" and would not cut straight in any axis. Well sure enough, it didn't, but with some checking and shimming and rechecking, it's very useable now, within .002" of square along the 20" travel and less than .001" along the 9" axis. Quill now moves true in the Z axis with no measurable out of square. There was as I recall .035" of shims required at the front left of the column base and .022" at the back ! Totally out of whack right from the factory! apart from that issue the machine is a champ, with a very powerful motor and heavy cast iron tubular column. The column is bolted to the base with 4 hex head bolts 16 mm dia - extra heavy duty, and very rigid. It has served me well since. The good news is that even wonky new or older mills can often be made to do excellent work , with a little fussin. Glad to hear you've got yours all trammed up.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2022, 10:41:24 PM
Thanks CNR!  Yeah, I can tell it is cutting much more squarely than it used to.  Before my re-tram would find a 2-3 difference between the ends of a long cut.  Now it's much better!  It's coming out within a half thou from one side to the other of a 6-8 inch run.  And that's about within my tolerance of measurement, so I'm pleased :)

I hadn't thought about tramming the quill.  Not sure how to even go abut that one...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 08, 2022, 12:46:33 AM
With my mill I first concentrated on getting the ways all square. Afterward I checked the quill and found it had not been bored square to the Z axis (angled backward toward the bottom, and sideways to the left) and the quill bore was bellmouthed at the top, making the quill and pulley kinda floppy. :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: Took the whole thing apart, a friend and I young and foolishly lifted the gigantic head casting up the stairs, and trucked the casting to a shop I worked with who had a jig borer big enough. This shop had several machinists that specialized in machine rebuilds. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I went in after hours and worked with one of these machinists to line it up with the column holes, bolt it down, and rebore the quill hole for a liner. The liner was turned and milled from cored cast iron hollow bar on my old South Bend 9"  lathe in the home shop and now everything's squarer than Rex Murphy (ex CBC news) and operates smoothly. I looked like Al Jolson for about a month with all that work in cast iron, but you do what you gotta do.  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2022, 02:09:26 AM
That's quite the story!  I don't think I'll be doing that any time soon...

It's good to have friends with skills, eh? :)

And access to a place with BIG tools!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 11, 2022, 10:49:21 PM
Chapter 22.3 – Ashpan

The ashpan is up next.  I made this part from sheet steel, the main part from 0.040” sheet, and the end of the ashpan from 0.080” sheet. To cut the main part, I drew it on a piece of paper, cut it out, and used spray adhesive to put it on the sheet.  Then I cut it out on the band saw and used the belt sander to approximate the shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-1-DSC_1433.jpg)

I used Dykem and laid out the part on the steel itself.  This pic also shows the 0.080” steel that will become the end of the ashpan.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-2-DSC_1437.jpg)

Next, I bent the sides of the ashpan and squared up the end piece on the mill and cut it to size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-3-DSC_1440.jpg)

As always happens when I bend sheet metal, nothing maintains its location once bent. So I used a height gauge to mark the actual top edge of the sides and laid out the shape for the upper pivots.  You can see my new scribe lines on the front and the old scribe lines on the inside of the back.  The steel stretched almost an eighth of an inch!  I know part of it is because the corner isn't truly square, it has a little radius to it. But I still think the metal stretches when bent too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-4-DSC_1444.jpg)

Using the belt sander I finished profiling the ashpan to the new scribed lines.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-5-DSC_1451.jpg)

Now to attach the back.  I will be silver-soldering it in place. But to help hold it there during soldering I decided to do the old brass screw method.  So I drilled and tapped a few holes to keep the end in place.  In this picture, you can see a small piece of scrap sheet steel clamped over the end to hold the end piece in alignment against the edge of the ashpan during the operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-6-DSC_1448.jpg)

Here’s right after I did the silver soldering.  The process went pretty well, I think.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-7-DSC_1454.jpg)

After a pickle and cleanup, it was time to locate and drill the pivot holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-8-DSC_1459.jpg)

And here’s the mostly completed ashpan.  It still needs the latch pin to be added but I’ve chosen to wait till I get the latch complete, then I can mark where to place the latch pin.  So it’s all I can do for now on the ashpan.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/176a-Ashpan-9-DSC_1461.jpg)

Thanks for looking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 12, 2022, 12:16:13 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on October 12, 2022, 02:06:31 AM
Hi Kim

The ash pan turned out great!

Yes, sheet metal will always stretch through the bend, this is something that people who work with sheet metal deal with every day. On a press brake with known material and tooling it is somewhat easier to predict, but there is always variables that will change things.
The easiest thing you can do is take a strip of the sheet that you are planning to use, say 1"X 4". Measure the length and then bend it 90 degrees, approximately in the center across the short direction. Use the same method that you will use on your actual part. Measure the outside length of each leg and add them together. Then subtract the original length value from the sum of the two folded legs. This will give you your outside bend deduction. this amount needs to be subtracted from your flat pattern for each bend. Bends less than 90 will take some trial and error to get the proper bend deduction. We have sheet metal software at work that does a pretty good job of this, once you have a good value for the 90 degree bend.

Hopefully this helps some.
Dave



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 12, 2022, 02:47:27 AM
Great info guys! Have not done much sheet metal work, so I would have guessed the opposite.   :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 12, 2022, 03:02:32 PM
Hi Kim

The ash pan turned out great!

Yes, sheet metal will always stretch through the bend, this is something that people who work with sheet metal deal with every day. On a press brake with known material and tooling it is somewhat easier to predict, but there is always variables that will change things.
The easiest thing you can do is take a strip of the sheet that you are planning to use, say 1"X 4". Measure the length and then bend it 90 degrees, approximately in the center across the short direction. Use the same method that you will use on your actual part. Measure the outside length of each leg and add them together. Then subtract the original length value from the sum of the two folded legs. This will give you your outside bend deduction. this amount needs to be subtracted from your flat pattern for each bend. Bends less than 90 will take some trial and error to get the proper bend deduction. We have sheet metal software at work that does a pretty good job of this, once you have a good value for the 90 degree bend.

Hopefully this helps some.
Dave

Thanks, Dave!
That is very helpful!

I've just always tried to make sure I add any features that require accuracy AFTER the sheet metal has been bent to it's final shape (like I did here).  But the problem with that, of course, is that it's harder to hold onto when it's not flat!  If one could learn to predict where things will end up after bending, one could do these ops while the sheet is flat and easier to deal with.  I'll have to try that method sometime!

Thank you for the detailed response.  I really appreciate it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 13, 2022, 04:26:23 PM
The good news is that the ash pan can end up a little narrower without causing a problem.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2022, 10:32:27 PM
Very true, KVOM. :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2022, 10:47:33 PM
Chapter 22.4 – Ashpan Latch and Spring Hanger
With the major pieces of the Ashpan complete, all that’s left are a few little bits.  But they’re complex bits.

I cut a piece of 1/16” 304 stainless steel sheet for the latch and spring hanger.  After getting it to the required size of 0.240” (just a tich under 1/4") I drilled all the required holes for the parts – one part on each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-01-DSC_1464.jpg)

One of the holes is actually the hook for the latch so that needed to be opened up.  I did this with a 1/16” end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-02-DSC_1467.jpg)

With all the major features in place, I cut the part in two and rounded the ends, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-03-DSC_1470.jpg)

On the lathe, I churned out a bunch of little round pins of various descriptions from some small 303 rod.  These will all be silver soldered into their respective holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-04-DSC_1477.jpg)

But before I do that, I needed to shape the spring hooks (the center pin on the left, and the lower pin on the right in the photo above.  I did this by holding the little end in a 5C collet and milling the shape, as shown here:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-05-DSC_1489.jpg)

Then drill the hole for the spring:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-06-DSC_1491.jpg)

Then to the hearth where I silver soldered the pins in place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-07-DSC_1495.jpg)

Here are the two parts after a bit of cleaning.  I left the insertion pin long on several of the parts to ease the silver soldering step.  So now I have to clean those up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-08-DSC_1497.jpg)

I did that using a combination of belt sander and filing.  And here are the completed latch (on the left) and the spring hanger (on the right).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/177a-AshpanLatch-09-DSC_1500.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2022, 10:48:53 PM
Chapter 22.5 – Pins
The next item were the pivot pins for the ash pan.

These were also turned on the lathe from 303 stainless rod (1/4”).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/178a-Pins-01-DSC_1478.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2022, 10:52:10 PM
Chapter 22.6 – Spring
The final part of the ashpan assembly is the spring.

I made this in the lathe using stainless steel wire. I first stretched the wire to work harden it.  Then wrapped it on a mandrel in the lathe.  I just hand-turned this – it is an extension spring, rather than a compression.  So the winding spacing was easy to do manually.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-01-DSC_1503.jpg)

After bending the ends of the spring into hooks, I assembled all the pieces on the grate support.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-02-DSC_1506.jpg)

Next, I put the ashpan in place and marked the location for the ashpan latch pin (You can see the scratch marks in the ink just behind the latch mechanism on the right).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-03-DSC_1513.jpg)

Lining this up on the mill, I drilled a hole for the pin:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-04-DSC_1515.jpg)

Then soldered it in place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-05-DSC_1519.jpg)

And there you have it – a completed ashpan!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/179a-Spring-06-DSC_1522.jpg)

I took a short video of the ashpan latch in action - it has such a satisfying feel to it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGuYr294iJM

The next step is the boiler!  It’s a rather intimidating element to launch into but I’m quite excited to get started on it!  Though it may be a few days yet.  I have some household things I need to attend to.  But I really wanted to get to this point before I took a break to focus on domestic activities for a bit.  I’m excited to begin work on the boiler! :)

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 13, 2022, 11:20:18 PM
Excellent!!  And very nice that you gave your shop elves a way to flush...   :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2022, 11:58:39 PM
Yes!  Definitely!  Elf hygiene is very important in the shop!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 14, 2022, 12:54:27 AM
That's a beautiful latch / unlatch action Kim! Careful you don't get LDEGv* though.  :Lol:    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


*LDEGv= latch detent euphoria, Goldilocks variant , commonly caused by machine builders operating mechanisms that are just right  ..... :Lol:  (very common when building Kozo's designs)  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 14, 2022, 01:28:36 AM
Outstanding work Kim! Your soldering skills are excellent you should have no problem with the boiler fab and soldering……….I ……….likeeeeeee…. :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2022, 05:16:38 AM
That's a beautiful latch / unlatch action Kim! Careful you don't get LDEGv* though.  :Lol:    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


*LDEGv= latch detent euphoria, Goldilocks variant , commonly caused by machine builders operating mechanisms that are just right  ..... :Lol:  (very common when building Kozo's designs)  :cheers:

I may already have LDEGv and not even know it!   :o

Thanks CNR!  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2022, 05:17:56 AM
Outstanding work Kim! Your soldering skills are excellent you should have no problem with the boiler fab and soldering……….I ……….likeeeeeee…. :Love:

 :drinking-41:
Don

Thanks Don!  :cheers:
That's very kind of you.  But anything I know about silver soldering, I owe to you and others on this forum who so kindly and patiently walked me through my training for all these years!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 14, 2022, 08:52:42 AM
Hello Kim,
very nice details!
I like to keep that in the back of my mind. Thanks for the video.

best regards Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 14, 2022, 11:13:36 AM
So yet another Milestone reached with at satisfying result Kim  :ThumbsUp:

We will be here when you are ready for the Boiler too   :popcorn:   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2022, 05:47:25 PM
Thank you Michael and Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on October 15, 2022, 03:40:46 PM
If you want to put off the boiler for a bit longer, you can always work on the cab, sand dome, smoke box, and headlamp.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 15, 2022, 05:01:08 PM
If you want to put off the boiler for a bit longer, you can always work on the cab, sand dome, smoke box, and headlamp.
Those need to be good fits around the boiler...   



 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 16, 2022, 07:31:32 PM
Don't worry about the boiler your skills are more than up to it  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2022, 06:03:50 AM
Thanks everyone,
I don't really want to put off the boiler - I'm excited to get on it.  While it is rather intimidating, my answer to that is usually to just start on it.  Then you get yourself into it and have to figure it out.

However, there are a few house projects I need to do that I've been letting slide.  And I'm going to tackle those before I get going on the boiler.  I need to clean the gas fireplace insert, give our bathroom an overhaul - little chores like that.  Not terrible, but they've got to be done.  And I'm the guy to do them!

Kim   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 17, 2022, 08:59:58 AM
Hello Kim,
I feel the same way. My workshop has been fully usable again since August and I could continue to work on the small Reeves steam engine. But there is still a lot to do in the house............

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2022, 05:07:09 PM
Don't you hate it when life gets in the way of fun hobbies?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 17, 2022, 05:27:58 PM
Yes of course.
I don't even remember how I was able to build a model every winter 2 or 3 years ago. And now roofs are leaking, water pipes are rusting and the attic needs to be insulated with more mineral wool because gas for heating is becoming extremely expensive. But I'll soon find time for the hobby. There is plenty of wood for the stove in the workshop.

best regards Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 18, 2022, 07:29:19 PM
That works like a fine Swiss watch ashpan. Well done! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2022, 05:00:40 AM
Thanks Ron  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on October 26, 2022, 03:05:21 AM
Hi Kim,
Hope your getting on top of your home tasks, I know how you feel, For us in Eastern Aus, we have one of the wettest Winter/Springs for a long time, personally for myself, I cannot keep up with the mowing and garden maintenance  But a lot of families sadly are worse off than myself with constant flooding ! 

I have had My John Deere bogged a few times now!

looking forward to your Boiler build, I am sure you will smash it :)

Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2022, 05:02:16 AM
Thanks Gary!

Yeah, I've made good progress on this round of domestic chores. Finished up the bathroom re-do (tore off wallpaper, repainted, replaced faucet, towel rack, TP holder, etc, and cleaned up.  Now we're doing the rest of the decor stuff (new shower curtain & rod, a few new wall hangings, etc.)  It's looking quite good!  Of course, now I wonder why we didn't do this years ago.  Oh yeah... I was working full-time then!  HA!  I like this being retired thing.  I could get used to it!

But now, I've had another project crop up that's taking my focus for a few days.  I'll be posting about this one soon!   :naughty:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 03, 2022, 07:16:58 PM
Lovely mention of our dear Kim from the youtuber "Blondiehacks".   Well deserved....congrats Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on December 03, 2022, 07:35:49 PM
Hi Kim

I have followed your build closely and enjoyed it immensely.  :ThumbsUp:

I tend to lurk in the background and rarely comment but with regards to the boiler I know how you feel.
I kept putting off the boiler build for Conway but eventually I had to get on with it.
The designer of Conway wrote in the magazine article a small piece that finally inspired.
I would like to quote him

(https://i.imgur.com/QJwDfJ2.jpg)

I hope that helps

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 03, 2022, 08:04:52 PM
Quote
Lovely mention of our dear Kim from the youtuber "Blondiehacks".   Well deserved....congrats Kim!

OK - that made me curious - so here is :   (and she mentions Kim 9:08)  :praise2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiAWsopdr0A

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on December 03, 2022, 08:29:54 PM
I'm a big fab of Quinn(Blondihacks) While I do machining for a living...I watch most all her videos anyway. She has a great way of explaining things and never is boastful or tries to cover a mistake. I use her videos in teaching my students, it's especially good for the females and I also think the males, as they need to prove themselves!

After the fiasco of the Steam Channel build I think Quinn will do it right for a locomotive. And yes Kim she is clearly a fan of your work! Good going!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 03, 2022, 11:30:08 PM
Wow!  I'm beyond flattered!

I've watched her videos before but hadn't seen this one.  So, of course, I had to go watch it immediately.  That was a very kind comment she made on my build.  It's rather humbling.  Because you all know what a neophite I really am!   :embarassed:

She'll be starting right where I am now - on the boiler!

I'm still sidetracked with my 3D printer.  I'll have to post some pics of all the junk I've printed, but some of it is top secret (I'm helping out Santa this year) so maybe not for a few more weeks?

Regardless, thanks for letting me know of the mention by Blondihacks.  It is quite a surprise to me for sure!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on December 03, 2022, 11:45:43 PM
Ha! I saw this today too! I thought it was awesome that this thread was called out, and coincidental she is choosing to “build alongside you” with the boiler. Great stuff and congrats Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 04, 2022, 02:44:32 AM
Well you've hit the bigtime now Kim!

I wonder if we'll have to have our people contact your people when we want to chat here now?  :Jester:

Just joking. It was nice she mentioned your fine work on your engine, and MEM as well.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2022, 01:25:59 AM
I can’t believe it’s been almost TWO months since I posted an update here! What’s worse, it’s been about that long since I’ve done anything on my Pennsy build!  Oh my!  What IS the world coming to?

I did, however, have a grand time getting to know my new 3D printer (I posted a short update on that over in the Additive Machining sub-forum if you’re interested in that sort of thing).

But it’s HIGH time I got back to my main project.  So today, I did.


Chapter 23.3 – Formers and Backing Plates

And today, we start on the formidable boiler.  I’m pretty excited about this, contrary to how it might seem with how long it has taken me to get to it!  But I’m here now.

We start the boiler by making a bunch of wood formers.  As is often the case when hardwood is required, I used maple from my old stock of wood that I originally purchased to make a cradle for our first child. I never quite got to that project, however.  And my first child is now grown and on her own and probably wouldn’t fit in the cradle even if I made it.  So I’m putting the wood to a different use.

I cut a bunch of blanks on the table saw to about the right size.  There are four sets of formers needed, one set for each of the following:
  1) Front Tube Sheet
  2) Backhead
  3) Firebox Sheet
  4) Throat Sheet
Each set consists of a former and a backing plate.

Starting with the Front Tube Sheet former set, I drilled a 1/4” center hole in them and, using a 1/4" bolt as a mandrel, turned them round on the lathe. Then, using a 1/16” radius router bit, I rounded the sharp edge on the former.  If I were to do this again I think I'd use something besides a 1/4" bolt.  The 1/4" bolt didn't really provide a very straight mandrel.  I'd either turn a mandrel specific for this or possibly use a larger bolt?   Whatever.  This worked OK.  but if I actually wanted it centers on the hole I'd need to do it differently. But in this case, round is good enough - concentricity would just be for the OCD part of me.  Oh yeah, and it would have helped with the 1/16" round-over.  Since there was some wobble to the circle my radius wasn't very even.  I ended up using a file to get it more 'even'. But that's plenty good.  It just needs to be a bit of a radius there.  I don't think the 1/16 has to be too exact.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-01-DSC_1566.jpg)

At this point, I realized I should have taken a picture of the former blanks before I started working on them.  Oops.  But as you can probably imagine, the two on the left started off as square blanks.  From left to right, they are: Front Sheet Former, Firebox Sheet Former, Backhead Former, Throat Sheet Former.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-02-DSC_1575.jpg)

Actually, after marking them all up so nicely like that, I realized that the best way to do these would be to double-sticky-tape the pairs together so that I could form them at the same time.

So, after stick-taping them together I put them in the mill to trim to final size. This is the Firebox Sheet Former set.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-03-DSC_1578.jpg)

Once to size I used the DRO to find the right spot for the center of the arc and drilled a hole.  This will be used to center things on the rotary table in a bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-04-DSC_1580.jpg)

After doing the same thing to the Backhead Former set, I moved to the Throat Sheet Former set.  This set is different in that the center for the arc on this former is off the edge of the former itself.  So I attached this set to a larger backing board to help center it.  This was also attached with double-sticky tape.  Looking at it now, I could have just made the lower former blank a half inch longer and I’d have been set.  Ah well. This works too!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-05-DSC_1584.jpg)

Now, back to the Firebox Sheet formers.  After centering up the rotary table with my ever-so-cool coaxial indicator, I used a 1/4" gauge pin to center the former set over the RT.  Then rounded off the end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-06-DSC_1588.jpg)

With that done I moved to the 1/16” round-over bit to put the radius on the former.  BTW, the backing plates don’t need the rounded edges, just the former part of the set. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-07-DSC_1590.jpg)

But I only did the rounded end on the RT.  I moved back to the vise to round off the straight edges.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-08-DSC_1592.jpg)

And that completed the Firebox Sheet Former set.  I’ve still got the Backhead and the Throat Former sets to go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180a-BoilerFormers-09-DSC_1595.jpg)

But that’s all I could handle for today.  So in I came to write up my exciting new update.

Thanks for checking in and sticking with me after this LONG gap in progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 06, 2022, 01:52:41 AM
Oh Boy! Boiler time!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2022, 02:13:06 AM
Oh Boy! Boiler time!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Oh yeah!  :ThumbsUp:  :cartwheel:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 06, 2022, 02:13:42 AM
Quote
As is often the case when hardwood is required, I used maple from my old stock of wood that I originally purchased to make a cradle for our first child. I never quite got to that project, however.  And my first child is now grown and on her own and probably wouldn’t fit in the cradle even if I made it.
I'd say that's well seasoned by now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 06, 2022, 03:09:54 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers: to boiler building!

Have you got the book "How to Soften Copper" by A.Neal?  :Lol:  (sorry for worst pun in a long time)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2022, 03:55:23 AM
Quote
As is often the case when hardwood is required, I used maple from my old stock of wood that I originally purchased to make a cradle for our first child. I never quite got to that project, however.  And my first child is now grown and on her own and probably wouldn’t fit in the cradle even if I made it.
I'd say that's well seasoned by now.
Yes, it's been 'seasoning' for some time.  However, the ends of some of the boards got soaked a few years back when my water heater broke.  But it seems to work well enough regardless! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2022, 03:56:34 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :cheers: to boiler building!

Have you got the book "How to Soften Copper" by A.Neal?  :Lol:  (sorry for worst pun in a long time)

Yes, I'll be re-reading it carefully for these operations  :ROFL:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 06, 2022, 05:32:27 PM
I have only just seen the Blondihacks link, Congratulations  :)

Lots of work with the brown stuff now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 06, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
Congrats Kim on the mention about your work. Formers look great waiting on the copper work. You got this bud …… :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 07, 2022, 12:06:08 AM
Thanks Roger and Don!  :cheers:

Yes, a bit more work with the brown stuff then I'll get on with the copper (and rereading Mr A.Neils book!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 07, 2022, 12:19:05 AM
My plan was to finish up the formers today.  But as we all know too well, things don’t always go according to plan!   ::)

Things started out good though, with centering the Backhead Formers on the rotary table and milling the round part to the correct dimension.  I had to shuffle the clamps a few times to get all the way around, but that's doable!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180b-BoilerFormers-1-DSC_1597.jpg)

Then I rounded over the outside edge of the former.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180b-BoilerFormers-2-DSC_1600.jpg)

I’ll come back and finish up the straight parts of these formers later.  For now, I wanted to complete all the RT work while I had that centered up.  So it was on to the Throat Sheet Formers.  A couple of things here; first, I decided to add a couple of screws through the whole stack to make sure the formers stayed in place during the milling.  And second, I realized just in the nick of time, that the inside former and the outside former have DIFFERENT radii for their curved portions.  Duh… That’s what I get for doing the layout work and then taking a 2 month hiatus!  But luckily, I realized it in time and just did the top former first.  The bottom one has a larger radius, so I’ll be separating the two before I do that one.  Here I’ve just completed cutting the radius of the top Throat Sheet former.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180b-BoilerFormers-3-DSC_1601.jpg)

As with the Backhead Former, I’ll come back and do the straight edges on this one later.

Now, on to the larger of the Throat Sheet Former.  But here’s where I discovered my rookie mistake!  I hadn’t given any thought to the direction of the grain on the wood. The top piece was accidentally oriented correctly.  But the bottom piece – well, you can see what happened when I tried to cut the arc there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180b-BoilerFormers-4-DSC_1605.jpg)

I've done enough wood work to know this.  Guess it's just been long enough since I've done any significant work with the brown stuff that I've forgoten my woodworking chops. :Doh: Well, nothing for it but to try again.  So, raiding my stash of old well-cured cradle wood, I cut another piece for the larger of the Throat Sheet Formers.  This time, I cut it with the grain running in a more optimal direction, and I made it a bit larger in both dimensions.  Now I’ve got the new piece set up and in place on the rotary table.  But I’m going to leave the cutting till tomorrow.  It’s past my shop witching hour, and it never goes well if I stay out in the shop past the witching hour!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180b-BoilerFormers-5-DSC_1609.jpg)

Here’s where I’ll pick up my tale tomorrow.  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 07, 2022, 12:33:03 AM
If you continue to have problems with the wood splitting, see if you can pick up some white oak - it has a much more interlocking grain, a lot harder to split. I was lucky to have some left over from a boat keel/stem project.  Red oak has a linear/tubular grain, white oak would be better.
Fun fact with red oak - if you  have a straight grain length of it, dip one end in water, and blow in the other end, bubbles will come out in the water! The tubular grain is a lot like a bundle of straws. Yes, this really works!


Or, if you are more comfy with metalwork, you could always make the formers out of some big chunks of steel!  (Just kidding - doubt it would work that well, it would tend to squish the copper with the hammering rather than giving/rebounding like the wood does).
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 07, 2022, 12:47:20 AM
If you continue to have problems with the wood splitting, see if you can pick up some white oak - it has a much more interlocking grain, a lot harder to split. I was lucky to have some left over from a boat keel/stem project.  Red oak has a linear/tubular grain, white oak would be better.
Fun fact with red oak - if you  have a straight grain length of it, dip one end in water, and blow in the other end, bubbles will come out in the water! The tubular grain is a lot like a bundle of straws. Yes, this really works!


Or, if you are more comfy with metalwork, you could always make the formers out of some big chunks of steel!  (Just kidding - doubt it would work that well, it would tend to squish the copper with the hammering rather than giving/rebounding like the wood does).
Good point on the oak.  I'm hoping the well-aged maple will be fine, but I guess we'll see tomorrow. :)

Interesting fun fact, too!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 07, 2022, 01:22:10 AM
I usually make the former for the forward flange (around the boiler tube) wider to avoid the breakage problem. There is no limit other than the amount of wood used. The side former needs to be the correct width, of course, but the interior shape is mostly unimportant. I have never had any problem with the side former, but it could be made sturdier by creating a smaller cutout.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2022, 12:19:10 AM
I usually make the former for the forward flange (around the boiler tube) wider to avoid the breakage problem. There is no limit other than the amount of wood used. The side former needs to be the correct width, of course, but the interior shape is mostly unimportant. I have never had any problem with the side former, but it could be made sturdier by creating a smaller cutout.

Gene
Thanks Gene,
Very good point!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2022, 01:05:27 AM
Today I was able to complete my plan of finishing the formers for the boiler.  Yay!

Continuing on with the front Throat Plate:
This time around, I decided to try something different.  I chose to use the chain drill method to make the arc in the front Throat Plate Former.  This was a great idea and made the whole thing go quite fast.  You can drill holes in wood very quickly compared to metal!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-01-DSC_1612.jpg)

Then I cleaned up the arc with an endmill and widened it to the specified size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-02-DSC_1613.jpg)

Before I took it off the rotary table, I did the 1/16” round-over.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-03-DSC_1614.jpg)

Using the bandsaw, I separated the upper part, which is scrap, from the lower part, which is what I want to keep!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-04-DSC_1616.jpg)

And finally, I trimmed it to the specified height.  I’m not sure how important the height is, but since Kozo specified it, I did it.  Guess I’ll find out in a bit if the height is important.  As Gene mentioned in his above post, the width for this former is not critical, so I made it wider to help keep the tips from breaking.  And orienting the grain the right way also helped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-05-DSC_1624.jpg)

The rear Throat Plate Former and the Backhead Former are the same width (in the bottom half, that is) since they will define the front and back of the outside of the fire box.  So I did these formers together by double-sticky taping the rear Throat Plate former to the top of the Backhead Former stack. The width needs to be centered on the boiler, and since I already cut the arc for the boiler I need to keep that centered.  To do this I clocked in on the center hole using a gauge pin and drilled another 1/4" hole in line with it on the center of the formers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-06-DSC_1617.jpg)

Now I could use a couple of 1/4" drill bits to suspend the formers in the vice and mill each side down the same amount till I’d reached the desired width.  I did this in several steps, flipping the parts each time and taking the other side down to the exact same level (without moving the depth of the mill).  This worked quite well, though was somewhat tedious.  I also worked carefully to avoid chipping out the sides of the formers along the grain.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-07-DSC_1620.jpg)

Now my next problem was getting the formers apart.  I don’t think I’d have had ANY problem with them separating.  I began to wonder if I’d ever get them apart without breaking them, but eventually, I did.  I usually take some old (dull) razor blades and pound them (carefully) between the two parts and eventually the tape will let go.  But this time it took a LOT of persuading.  You can see I even broke one of my dull utility blades. Glad I had my safety glasses on! :o
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-08-DSC_1622.jpg)

And finally, I put the Backhead and rear Throat Plate formers together (end to end) and rounded over the straight edges.  This gave me a continuous roundover on the Bakchead former and just the sides on the rear Throat Plate, which is all that is needed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-09-DSC_1625.jpg)

And there they are, the whole happy Former Family:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/180c-BoilerFormers-10-DSC_1627.jpg)

I'm happy to be done with the wood!  Not that I mind it too badly, I've done a lot of woodwork in the past, but I forget how far and wide wood swarf travels!  Metal swarf tends to spread in line of site from where you're working.  But sawdust goes EVERYWHERE!  What a stinking mess!  Before I packed in for the day I vacuumed up all my wood swarf so I'd have a clean place for my meat swarf to land.

And tomorrow is copper day!  Yipee!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 08, 2022, 01:08:57 AM
Nice!  Going to be shaping copper soon, got my popcorn ready!

What are you going to be using as a hammer? Do you have one of the plastic forming mallets? You don't want to use a metal head hammer or it will dent the copper too much.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2022, 01:19:15 AM
I've got a couple of options on mallets.  I have a rubber mallet, a wood mallet, a plastic mallet, and a brass hammer.  Then we get to the ball peen hammer and your basic claw hammer, plus a small sledgehammer.  I'm sure something in there will work!  :hammerbash:

When I was shaping the copper for the tender tank I used the plastic mallet and the brass mallet a little, which seemed to work quite well.  So I'll likely do the same here.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 08, 2022, 12:04:19 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Jo on December 08, 2022, 12:46:34 PM
I've got a couple of options on mallets.  I have a rubber mallet, a wood mallet, a plastic mallet, and a brass hammer.  Then we get to the ball peen hammer and your basic claw hammer, plus a small sledgehammer.  I'm sure something in there will work!  :hammerbash:

In the UK we have a book "Model Locomotive Boiler Making" by Alec Farmer - It is considered to be the Bible on copper boiler making.

Alec recommends using a large 16oz flat-faced planishing hammer. This is one of those hammers with a large flat steel face that is used for shaping sheet metals. Looking at the pictures in the book I suspect he is using a couple of the hammers that you find in the cheap car body repair hammer sets  as I also spotted a cross-face hammer being used for the internal curves.

When years ago  :old: I made my two boilers I followed Alec's recommendations and it worked for me   :DrinkPint:

Jo

P.S. Alec does say do not use a wooden hammer as the copper will quickly destroy it  :paranoia:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2022, 04:29:40 PM

Alec recommends using a large 16oz flat-faced planishing hammer. This is one of those hammers with a large flat steel face that is used for shaping sheet metals. Looking at the pictures in the book I suspect he is using a couple of the hammers that you find in the cheap car body repair hammer sets  as I also spotted a cross-face hammer being used for the internal curves.

When years ago  :old: I made my two boilers I followed Alec's recommendations and it worked for me   :DrinkPint:

Jo

P.S. Alec does say do not use a wooden hammer as the copper will quickly destroy it  :paranoia:

Yeah, I can see avoiding the wooden hammer :)

But using a steel hammer seems surprising to me since it seems it would leave marks on the copper.  But maybe those flat, smooth-faced planishing hammers wouldn't?  I don't have one, so likely won't use it. But who knows?  maybe I'll pick one up at Harbor Freight! Always need a new tool, right?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 08, 2022, 04:59:40 PM
I've always used the rounded end plastic hammers for boiler work, like Kozo shows in the books. Works great. When I took a copper bowl making course they taught using the planishing hammers, but there we were  just gradually stretching the metal into curves, not putting in tight corners and shrinking the metal like on the boiler flanges. The rounded plastic one won't dent in the edges of wavy sections like you'll get on the forms.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on December 08, 2022, 09:05:39 PM
i have always just used a normal hammer the thicker copper for boilers don't hit on the corner radii more around the edges .
how thick is the copper for this boiler .
when at tech school from form one doing copper and brass work we only used a normal hammer engineers ball pien just make sure it has not got bumps  and sharp burrs or nick's which will leave similar marks in the copper you want the face smooth .
john
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2022, 11:02:02 PM
The boiler is made from 0.080" thick copper sheet.  I think that's fairly hefty copper!

My plan is to use the plastic (round end, as you describe, Chris) for most of the forming operation.  Though for some places a ball peen hammer may be used (Kozo says this is OK in his book, as long as you don't dent the copper).  While forming the rounded parts of the tender tank I also used a piece of wood to help apply pressure on specific areas.  I'd hold the wood like a punch to focus on one area and whack the other end of the stick with a hammer. I found this helped me get to some more recessed areas that the flat plastic hammer had a difficult time reaching.  And if my piece wood was destroyed in the process, I didn't much care.  I could just find another one :)

Lot's of annealing steps helped too!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 09, 2022, 12:08:49 AM
Quote
Though for some places a ball peen hammer may be used (Kozo says this is OK in his book, as long as you don't dent the copper).
A lot of it can certainly be done with a ball peen hammer. The key is to remember to use lots and lots of light and closely spaced taps, no heavy wanging away.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2022, 01:38:03 AM
Chapter 23.4 – Forming

Today we start with the copper!

I purchased a 12” x 36” sheet of 0.080” 110 Copper which is rather unwieldy to be slinging around trying to cut parts from.  So what I did was to figure out the smallest rectangle that would fit all five of the formed pieces and sliced that off the big sheet.  Turned out to be just a tich over 6”x12”.  I can't slice off a 6" chunk on my bandsaw - it just can't handle that width (the ubiquitous 4”x6” HF horizontal/vertical saw) and I didn’t really want to try it on my table saw (though copper might be OK, I didn't want to chance it).  So I went with the sawsall, which I’ve used before in this kind of situation.  However, this time, I clamped on a bar to it to use as a guide. This worked quite well and the cut came out nice and straight!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-1-DSC_1632.jpg)

In my original plan for the Cu sheet, I overestimated the size for all the parts by 1/2" or so in all directions, just to make sure I had a little wiggle room.  But as copper is so stinking expensive, I wanted to be as frugal as possible.  So I made 1:1 patterns for each part and shuffled those around to figure out how to optimally position the parts.  This was my design:  (and yes, I actually did this BEFORE I cut the 6” chunk!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-2-DSC_1633.jpg)

Then I took each piece and, using Elmer’s spray sticky glue, glued my patterns to the sheet one at a time, and cut them out.  I used a combination of the bandsaw and the scroll saw.  The bandsaw for long straight cuts and the scroll saw for all the curvy cuts.  The reason I did them one at a time is then I didn’t have to estimate the kerf-width of the saw.  Once I got one piece cut out I knew exactly where the edge was and could cozy the next part up against the edge without worrying about the blade width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-3-DSC_1636.jpg)

Here’s all five parts cut out of the sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-4-DSC_1640.jpg)

Now, dumb me, I was thinking the copper came pre-annealed.  So I set up one of the parts and tried to get it to bend. Guess what?  It wasn’t pre-annealed!  Later I looked it up and the copper 110 comes ‘half hard’.  All I can tell you is ‘half’ is still pretty hard!

So, over to the torch where I annealed all five pieces:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-5-DSC_1642.jpg)

Then I went to work forming!  You can see the hammer I’m using (Your basic plastic soft mallet - it has been used before! :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-6-DSC_1646.jpg)

Here’s the throat sheet.  I had to make a smaller backing plate to bend the sides of the throat sheet.  The other former for this pair was way too wide to allow me to get to the copper.  You’ll recall I left it extra wide to make sure the tips wouldn’t break off.  Well, they didn’t break, but they sure wouldn’t let me get access to the copper!  So I just took a scrap of wood and cut it so it would fit.  The fact that it has an arc taken out of it is immaterial since I’m not bending that section of copper yet.  The scrap I had handy just happened to have that already done (remember when I broke the tip off my first throat sheet former? Happy serendipity!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-7-DSC_1648.jpg)

But now I am bending the throat!  This picture is after the second round of annealing.  The sides are pretty close, but the throat will need another round or two.  I did end up using the ball peen hammer for the throat.  The rubber mallet just didn't get in those corners very well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-8-DSC_1650.jpg)

After two rounds I was out of shop time.  I went ahead and annealed all the parts again for the third round of pounding.  But that won’t be till next week.  I’ve got family stuff to do this weekend!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181a-BoilerForming-9-DSC_1652.jpg)

And there you have it – the boiler has officially been started!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 10, 2022, 01:54:14 AM
Great start on the forming, looks just like it should.   :whoohoo:


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 10, 2022, 02:28:17 AM
Quote
the boiler has officially been started!
And a good start it is too.  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 10, 2022, 02:34:04 AM
Looks great!  :popcorn:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 10, 2022, 03:21:02 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2022, 04:53:44 AM
Thanks for the kind comments Chris, Ron, stream, and Jeff!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 10, 2022, 08:09:03 AM
That's off to a good start  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 10, 2022, 01:06:39 PM
Now you are Really off on the Boiler  :praise2:

.... and the rest off Us are still enjoying this Build Thread imensly   :cheers:   :popcorn:   :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 10, 2022, 03:25:26 PM
Heatin' and beatin'.  :hammerbash:

I found I had a tendency to try to minimize the heating and maximize the beating in order to save time. Not a good idea.

You may need 6 or more cycles for a complex shape like the throat sheet. Even the simple ones will need at least 4 cycles to get a good smooth shape.

If it does not move at all with a fairly light tap then more annealing is needed.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2022, 04:04:52 PM
Thanks Roger, Per, and Gene!

Good advice Gene,  I know I've got more heatin' and beatin' cycles to go (I like that phrase :)).  But that's a good thing to be aware of - don't be afraid of doing another anneal cycle.  No need to skimp on that!

Thanks for looking in on me and for the advice!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: learn2turn on December 11, 2022, 02:22:01 PM
I just found your thread Kim after watching Blondihacks and spent some time binging to get caught up.  Your work to date is superb and I made it just in time for what I consider the most exciting part.  The boiler...I have only recently entered the model engineering world with the purchase of a lathe and hope to add a small mill in the future.  One day I want to build a locomotive as you are but for now I will learn from you.  Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 11, 2022, 03:38:58 PM
Hi Learn2Turn!
Welcome to the forum!  And wonderful to have you following along with my build  :D

Anything you can learn from me you're learning from the skilled and generous people who have helped me get this far, or from seeing the mistakes I've made and avoiding them!  That's what I can offer, and it is my goal in documenting my build. To get help and to offer that same help to others!  I love Blondihacks philosophy of doing things, making mistakes, and learning from them.  And I'm doing my best to emulate that philosophy in my humble way.

Enjoy your new lathe! You should post your current project here!  I'd love to see what you're working on. And I can tell you that you will get great advice and encouragement from the knowledgeable people who frequent this site!

Also, we have a tradition of people posting a short 'intro' of themselves in the "Introduce Yourself (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/board,3.0.html)" section of the forum.  It gives everyone a chance to welcome you to the forum and get to know you're goals and what you're doing.

Thank you for your post! It is much appreciated.  Always nice to know that my mistakes are helping other people!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 12, 2022, 10:41:56 PM
Today I completed the forming step for the various plates of the boiler.  It ended up taking five anneal & pound cycles to complete this.  I considered another cycle but it just didn’t seem like there was much to be gained.  Five seemed to do it for me.

I did find that around the 3rd hammering cycle I started to have difficulty getting the copper off the form.  So I had to find a way to hold the form and gently tap on the part to get it to release.  Then I’d try to even out the places that had bitten into the form so that I could better fit it on for the next round.  Not a big deal, but it did add a bit of time to each cycle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181b-BoilerForming-1-DSC_1655.jpg)

And here’s the family shot of all the boiler parts to date.  Don’t they look like a happy family?  :cartwheel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/181b-BoilerForming-2-DSC_1659.jpg)

Next time I’ll begin machining the formed Front Tube Sheet.  This is getting exciting, isn’t it?!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 12, 2022, 10:48:57 PM
Awesome results!  If you haven't machined copper before, its well worth a practice piece, copper is very grabby and can leave a rough surface. Light cuts, experiment with speeds, and use a block between the piece and the tailstock to keep it from moving. The form blocks work great for holding for machining.


 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 12, 2022, 11:35:30 PM
Thanks Chris!
I've done a little work with copper before (the boiler on my steam tractor) but not too much. Copper is stinkin' expensive!  :o
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 13, 2022, 04:04:43 AM
Great looking copper work Kim! The heatin an a beatin was a success!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on December 13, 2022, 12:28:51 PM
Fantastic work Kim, you will "nail" this boiler, thanks for taking so much time documenting this Penny build,  :cheers:
Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 13, 2022, 01:35:24 PM
Awesome results Kim! You made it look easy………..I ……………..likeeeeeee……. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 13, 2022, 03:17:18 PM
Looks good, but I see one potential problem area.

The backhead has indentations where the curved part meets the straight parts. This will make fitting the wrapper sheet difficult. In some Kozo designs the wrapper sheet is made of multiple sections, but for the A3 it is all one piece. It is not easy to make the one-piece wrapper follow those indentations.

DAMHIK  :-[

I found that I was not careful enough to follow Kozo's warning about small clearances for silver soldering. It took a bit of rework on the soldering to finally make things seal up correctly.

Of course there is still the machining of the copper pieces yet to do. But you do not want to over-thin either the curved part or the straight part to make a smooth transition.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 13, 2022, 05:09:40 PM
Thankd Jeff, Gary, Don and Gene,

And thanks for the warning Gene.  I had to go back and look at the pictures, but I see what you were talking about.  I'll have to see what I can do about that indentation.  Always good to have the voice of experience!

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 13, 2022, 11:56:20 PM
Chapter 23.5 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Front Tube Sheet


For those of you following along in your hymnal were now on page 137 of Kozo’s excellent book.  However, you’ll notice that I’ve departed from the methods he describes there.  For machining the Front Tube Sheet, Kozo shows a bunch of ops on the lathe for drilling and boring the tube holes.  I chose to do it on the mill.

I started by bluing the front side of the Front Tube Sheet and marking up where all the holes needed to be.  I will be doing things based on the DRO, not these markings, but they are my safety checks.  If it looks like a feature isn’t coming out in the right place, I can stop and figure out if it was a layout mistake, a math mistake, or a dyslexia error in reading the DRO (and yes, I’ve don’t them all before!) and hopefully fix my error before I commit it to metal.  Some extra work for sure, but I have found it a very helpful practice, at least for me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-0-DSC_1663.JPG)

To hold the work, I used the wood former and screwed it to another block of wood (from the back side, which is why you don’t see the screws here). I squared up the two ends of this block so that I could clamp it in the mill vise with confidence.  Then, I used a gauge pin to find the center of the form.  I’m sure this wasn’t exact, but it will be within a few thousandths, which seems plenty accurate for these steps.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-1-DSC_1667.jpg)

I placed the copper workpiece on the form, doing my best to line up my previous layout lines square with the X and Y axes of the mill. I did this by eye using a machinist square.  Even though the copper workpiece fit the form very tightly, I didn’t feel it was anywhere near secure enough for machining. I wanted to add some additional hold-downs.

To do this, I used the DRO to locate one of the holes and spotted and CAREFULLY drilled a hole.  However, I didn’t drill it to the final size, I chose to use a smaller drill that was a close fit for a #8 wood screw to drill through the copper.  I then switched to a smaller drill to make a pilot for the #8 wood screw and drilled most of the length through the form. This pilot hole was large enough for the bulk of a #8 screw, but it still allowed the threads to bite into the wood.  If I didn’t drill a pilot hole the screw would likely have split the form. I then secured the workpiece to the form with that hole I just made.  With the workpiece secured with the single screw, I proceeded to drill three more holes in the same way for more hold-down screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-2-DSC_1670.jpg)

I now felt the workpiece would be securely held for the rest of the machining operations. Which was to bore 3 holes for the boiler tubes. These holes were then spotted and drilled out to 1/2".
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-3-DSC_1674~0.jpg)

The boiler tubes are 0.75” OD, so I found a chunk of 3/4" aluminum in my scrap bin with the exact same diameter to use as a checking gauge. I checked their size with a mic to be sure.  Kozo specifies 0.752” for the size of these holes which is a few thou larger than the diameter of the tubes to give some room for the silver solder to penetrate.   Using a boring head on the mill and a combination of an inside mic and the gauge, I opened the hole up to 0.752”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-4-DSC_1676.jpg)

Then did the same on the other two holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-5-DSC_1677.jpg)

With the heavy work done I went back to the other four holes I was using for hold downs and removed the screws one at a time, drilling and reaming them to the final size (two were 7/32” and two at 5/16”.)  After each hole was finished I'd put the hold-down screw back in place and move on to the next one.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-6-DSC_1679.jpg)

And here’s the Front Tube Sheet with all machining complete.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182a-FrontTubeSheet-7-DSC_1681.jpg)

Next will be to add the support ribs and some lugs for mounting the smoke box.

Thanks for checking in on my progress,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 14, 2022, 12:16:04 AM
Coming along great, Kim! I'm with you on marking out as an error/sanity check. I do the same all the time, for the same reasons.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 14, 2022, 12:33:32 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 14, 2022, 01:07:12 AM
Following along, I like your edits to the book!   :happyreader:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 14, 2022, 04:32:10 PM
Thanks Ron, Jeff, and Chris!

Coming along great, Kim! I'm with you on marking out as an error/sanity check. I do the same all the time, for the same reasons.
Nice to know I'm not the only one who finds this helpful!

Following along, I like your edits to the book!   :happyreader:
Thanks Chris!  I'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great. And I thought about doing it on the lathe just for the experience, but setting up the holding method using the faceplate and re-clocking in the piece for each of the bored holes just seemed like a lot of unnecessary effort.  So much easier to just dial it in on the DRO, you know?  ^-^

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 14, 2022, 08:09:19 PM
Splendid  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Boilers still scare me as do large propellers  :paranoia:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 14, 2022, 11:32:49 PM
Quote
I'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great.

I'm sure you're right - but then again - how many had a Home Mill with a DRO, when he wrote the book  :thinking:

Great to see your first boiler part be ready for the next step Kim  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 12:53:53 AM
Thanks Roger and Per!  :cheers:

Quote
I'm sure Kozo's methods would have been great.

I'm sure you're right - but then again - how many had a Home Mill with a DRO, when he wrote the book  :thinking:
Good point, Per!
I think you're right.  He was working with the equipment he (and that most other people) had at the time.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 01:03:57 AM
I’m going to use some little 1-72 brass screws to hold the ribs in place while I solder them.  So, I need to drill some holes for them.  Using the same fixture as before, I attached the Front Tube Sheet at a 45o angle.  I got the correct angle location by using gauge pins in the existing reamed holes, then drilled some close fitting 1-72 through holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-01-DSC_1683.jpg)

For some reason, it seemed easier to me to locate the holes for the ribs with the part at this angle.  I had to do some fancy trig to locate my holes, but it made sense to me. Looking back, there was no reason to re-orient the part. I could have done my fancy trig to locate the rib holes and left the part in the original orientation and not had to drill more mounting holes.  Ah well, it worked.  :embarassed:

Next, I sliced some ~3/8” wide strips off the 1/8” copper stock, and trimmed them down to the specified 3/8”. Upon reflection, I see that Kozo actually specified 23/64” for the front sheet ribs.  The backhead ribs are 3/8”. Ah well. An extra 1/64” will buy me some additional margin on the front of the boiler, right?   :Lol:  Or I’ll shave them down in a bit.  Haven’t decided yet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-02-DSC_1685.jpg)

It’s hard to calculate just how long the ribs need to be.  So I just marked them from the part, like so:  (you can see it took me two marks to get it right! :) )
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-03-DSC_1687.jpg)

After trimming and shaping the ends on the belt sander, I clamped the rib in place and carefully drilled and tapped a 1-72 hole in the rib using the Front Tube Sheet as a guide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-04-DSC_1691.jpg)

Here it is in place.  Looking at the picture I think I’ll try to close that gap between the rib and the Front Tube Sheet before I actually solder it in place… that gap looks kinda big along the bottom there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-05-DSC_1692.jpg)

And here’s the last piece of the ribs after having been shaped – you can see how the edge and lower corner are rounded to fit along the edge of the Tube Sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-06-DSC_1694.jpg)

And here we are with all the ribs fitted and held together with the 1-72 screws, ready for silver soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-07-DSC_1696.jpg)

But before we silver solder, I need to make the smokebox studs.  These will also be soldered onto the Front Tube Sheet and used to attach the smoke box (eventually). 

As I was laying out my little sheet to help me know all the needed dimensions when I’m at the lathe, I noticed a discrepancy in the drawing! :o If you look at the drawing on the left that shows the smokebox stud dimensions (part of drawing 23-1 from page 133 (the big fold-out drawing)), the boss that fits into the front sheet plate is shown as 1/4" diameter (circled in red and highlighted in yellow.)  But the drawing on the right (drawing 23-11 on page 137 – also circled in red) shows the hole for the smokebox stud to be reamed 7/32”!  I suppose either dimension would work, but I went with the 7/32”, since I’d already made those holes and hadn’t yet made the smokebox studs.  You don’t often find errors in Kozo’s books!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-08-DSC_1700_annotated.jpg)

The smokebox studs were made from 3/8” bronze.  A fairly straightforward turning job.  Here I’m just cutting the part off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-09-DSC_1701.jpg)

And here’s the Front Tube Sheet with the ribs and smokebox studs fitted in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182b-FrontTubeSheet-10-DSC_1704.jpg)

Tomorrow, I’ll silver solder everything in place!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 15, 2022, 01:11:49 AM
I like that a lot Kim!    Im always amazed at how much work goes into a boiler, all that work and when it's time....it's 5 minutes with a torch and Ploop!   it's soldered.....the soldering always seems so anticlimactic.   there is so much work that goes into it to get there.

Dave
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 15, 2022, 01:19:18 AM
Hi Kim, you have had a lot going on, on the Loco project since I last commented. I have been watching all the while and now enjoying your journey into the boiler phase of the locomotive!
Nice work indeed.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 01:38:48 AM
Thanks Dave and Dave!  :cheers:

I like that a lot Kim!    Im always amazed at how much work goes into a boiler, all that work and when it's time....it's 5 minutes with a torch and Ploop!   it's soldered.....the soldering always seems so anticlimactic.   there is so much work that goes into it to get there.

Dave
 
Well, the soldering is still a big deal for me!  I'm getting better at it, but I still worry :)

But as you say, if you put the time in upfront to fixture the parts well, the soldering certainly goes much better with a LOT less drama!  I've learned that from you all!

Hi Kim, you have had a lot going on, on the Loco project since I last commented. I have been watching all the while and now enjoying your journey into the boiler phase of the locomotive!
Nice work indeed.

Dave
Yeah, I just keep plugging away!  Pretty soon it will start to look like a loco too!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 15, 2022, 01:41:33 AM
Thanks Dave and Dave!  :cheers:

I like that a lot Kim!    Im always amazed at how much work goes into a boiler, all that work and when it's time....it's 5 minutes with a torch and Ploop!   it's soldered.....the soldering always seems so anticlimactic.   there is so much work that goes into it to get there.

Dave
 
Well, the soldering is still a big deal for me!  I'm getting better at it, but I still worry :)

But as you say, if you put the time in upfront to fixture the parts well, the soldering certainly goes much better with a LOT less drama!  I've learned that from you all!

Hi Kim, you have had a lot going on, on the Loco project since I last commented. I have been watching all the while and now enjoying your journey into the boiler phase of the locomotive!
Nice work indeed.

Dave
Yeah, I just keep plugging away!  Pretty soon it will start to look like a loco too!
Kim

Rooting for you buddy!   You got this!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2022, 02:04:49 AM
Really nice job of hand fitting formed parts, great layout illustrations, and nicely fixed parts for soldering. It's a pleasure to watch you work through this.  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 02:10:49 AM
Thank you vstream!
I really appreciate your kind and encouraging comment  :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 15, 2022, 04:13:36 AM
Looking good Kim, but question: could that bracket been cut with a half lap instead of three pieces?

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 04:55:51 AM
Looking good Kim, but question: could that bracket been cut with a half lap instead of three pieces?

Regards Don
Thanks Don!

Yes, I think it could have, and in fact, I gave that some serious consideration.  I kinda thought setting them together with a 1/8" cut halfway through each, would be stronger, but this is how Kozo shows to do it, for whatever reason.   And in the end, I decided to go this way because it looked harder to me to make the two ribs fit together AND then make all the ends fit at the same time.  This way I was only working on getting one end to fit at a time.  And, if it's what Kozo shows in the plans, then it must be strong enough as 3 pieces.

But I agree with you - the other method should work as well.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 15, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
I used the half-lap method.

As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.

There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 05:20:11 PM
I used the half-lap method.

As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.

There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.

Gene

I struggled to get a decent fit on the ends too.  Luckily, these don't have to be a pressure-tight fit.  If it doesn't seal fully behind the rib it's probably no big deal :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 15, 2022, 05:58:42 PM
I used the half-lap method.

As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.

There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.

Gene

I struggled to get a decent fit on the ends too.  Luckily, these don't have to be a pressure-tight fit.  If it doesn't seal fully behind the rib it's probably no big deal :)

Kim
Since the fit of the ribs is tough to get perfect all the way along its length and up the ends, I usually just use extra solder on those joints and let it flood the joint, no one but a very skinny shop elf will ever be able to get in there and see it when its done!   :Lol:   The important job for the ribs is to strengthen the flat plate, the only place its really important to have a tight seam on it with the solder is around the little screws holding the ribs for soldering, don't want to have a seep point there.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 06:20:03 PM
I used the half-lap method.

As I recall it was not easy to get the desired fit to the inside edges of the front tube sheet.

There is no need for the ribs to be exactly straight. The three-part design allows moving the stub-end to get the correct fit.

Gene

I struggled to get a decent fit on the ends too.  Luckily, these don't have to be a pressure-tight fit.  If it doesn't seal fully behind the rib it's probably no big deal :)

Kim
Since the fit of the ribs is tough to get perfect all the way along its length and up the ends, I usually just use extra solder on those joints and let it flood the joint, no one but a very skinny shop elf will ever be able to get in there and see it when its done!   :Lol:   The important job for the ribs is to strengthen the flat plate, the only place its really important to have a tight seam on it with the solder is around the little screws holding the ribs for soldering, don't want to have a seep point there.

Good point, Chris!  You DO need to hold pressure there!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2022, 11:55:10 PM
Shop time today was kinda short.  But I got to solder the Front Tube Sheet!

I cleaned the surfaces to be silver soldered, applied some Harris black flux and placed some bits of solder around the joints. When I was placing them, I didn’t think about how it would sit at an angle. If I’d realized that, I’d probably only put solder on the upper side of the joints and let gravity help pull it down.  But this is what I did.  I also put a 3/4 circle of solder around the two smokebox studs which doesn't really show up in this picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-1-DSC_1706.jpg)

After the burnt offering time, here’s what we have left.  Hard to tell how well it worked till I get it cleaned up some.  I did add extra solder during the event just to make sure everything got plenty.  Not sure it was enough even with that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-2-DSC_1708.jpg)

After 30 min in the pickle bath and a quick wash and brush in the utility sink, it looked much better.  And I could see that I did get excellent penetration around both of the smokebox studs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-3-DSC_1713.jpg)

The rib that is horizontal in this picture looks like it got good penetration.  While you can’t see it in this picture, if you move the part around you can see that there is solder contact inside both ends.  Though, I was a bit worried about the horizontal rib.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-4-DSC_1714.jpg)

But looking at the rib that was previously vertical (now it’s the horizontal one) you can see a line of silver all along the edge of the rib, so while it may not have gotten quite as much silver solder as the other rib, it looks like I got even coverage under the rib.  I can see this on both sides of the rib too, and along the butt joints where the ribs met.  So all in all, I think I’m pleased.  Guess the proof will be in the eventual pudding, eh?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-5-DSC_1715.jpg)

Then I filed off the heads of the holder screws and did a bunch more scotchbrite cleanup.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-6-DSC_1717.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182c-FrontTubeSheet-7-DSC_1721.jpg)

So at this point, I think I’m ready to move on to the back head.
Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on December 16, 2022, 12:03:29 AM
Looks good Kim.  A great start, very promising for a successful build.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2022, 12:20:03 AM
Looks good Kim.  A great start, very promising for a successful build.

MJM460
Thanks MJM!
Yes, this is just the first piece of a very complex part of the loco!  I've got a long way to go!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2022, 12:21:19 AM
Excellent!! Always a happy time when you see the solder all round on the far side.


Which grade of silver solder are you using on these joints, medium, hard? Always good to start with the higher grade so you can use the lower on subsequent heats on nearby joints, so the first ones don't remelt.


And better not to file off the screw heads till last, for holding in later heats.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2022, 12:30:50 AM
Which grade of silver solder are you using on these joints, medium, hard? Always good to start with the higher grade so you can use the lower on subsequent heats on nearby joints, so the first ones don't remelt.

I'm using easy grade.  Kozo says in the book to use easy on all the joints and just do them in the right order so they don't get in each other's way (or something like that).  I hope that's right because that's what I'm doing!

If things re-flow, it should be OK, as long as I don't completely lose contact with the element they are soldered to.

I've always wondered how if the easy/medium/hard really makes that big of a difference. The difference in melting temperature between the various grades isn't all that much - only 40-50 degrees F.  (looking it up...)

🟢 SOFT/EASY SPECIFICATIONS:
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 65%
🔸 Melt temperature: 1,240°F - 671°C
🔸 Flow temperature: 1,325°F - 718°C

🟢 MEDIUM SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 70%
🔸 Melt temperature: 1,275°F - 691°C
🔸 Flow temperature: 1,360°F - 738°C

🟢 HARD SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 75%
🔸 Melt temperature: 1,365°F - 741°C
🔸 Flow temperature: 1,450°F - 788°C

So, only 35F difference between Easy and Medium, and 90F diff between medium and hard.  I don't know that I can control the temperature of my soldering that carefully.  If I were doing it in an oven or something, then yes.  But with a torch?  It doesn't seem that easy to do.  But maybe that's just me. Do you find using different grades of solder helpful?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 16, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
It really does make a difference. If you stop heating when it flows out, or at least move on to the next section,, you won't get up to the next heat range. Also, and maybe this is what kozo is counting on, the solder does need a bit higher gher temperature and the flux to melt the second time. I try to start with the medium and use the easy for the later assembly rounds.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on December 16, 2022, 01:26:54 AM
Hi Kim,

I'm new to the forum (found it via Blondihacks) but have read everything you've posted so far! I've had the Kozo book for about 10 years but haven't made the plunge yet--you are certainly inspiring me! Excellent work!

Doug
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 16, 2022, 03:02:22 AM
I'm using easy grade.  Kozo says in the book to use easy on all the joints and just do them in the right order so they don't get in each other's way (or something like that).  I hope that's right because that's what I'm doing!

🟢 SOFT/EASY SPECIFICATIONS:
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 65%

🟢 MEDIUM SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 70%

🟢 HARD SPECIFICATIONS: -
🔸 Solder WIRE: Silver Content of 75%


Those silver numbers seem very high. Commonly used solders for model making range from 45% to 56%. Kozo recommends EasyFlo 45, which contains cadmium. He does not recommend any other grade.

Remelting silver solder almost always requires more temperature than the original melt required. Most alloys contain volatiles, such as zinc, that disappear and lead to a higher remelt temperature.

I once used EasyFlo 45 (BAg1), but I switched to Safety-Silv 56 (BAg7). No problem with remelting unless I grossly overheat. Indeed, I have tried a few times to remove something, and it can be difficult.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2022, 05:27:21 AM
Hi Kim,

I'm new to the forum (found it via Blondihacks) but have read everything you've posted so far! I've had the Kozo book for about 10 years but haven't made the plunge yet--you are certainly inspiring me! Excellent work!

Doug
Thank you Doug!
Nice to know you've enjoyed my build thread.  As you can tell, I'm still learning all of this.  While I have completed several projects, this is by far my most complex project to date. And my plan is to keep learning my whole life. That's what keeps the hobby fun for me.

I hope you do start building the engine sometime soon.  Make sure and post a build log here so we can all enjoy your journey!  I'm sure Quinn will be a much better person to follow than me. And she'll have fun pithy video to watch! ("Yatzee!").

Glad you found our forum. There are a lot of really creative talented people here who are always happy to share their expertise.  This is where I've learned most of what I know about machining, from the friendly people right here (and Blondihacks of course, and other YouTubers.)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2022, 05:31:17 AM
Chris,
That's good info.  I may have to try various grades someday.  Though it's a bit late for this boiler! :)

Gene,
I'm sure you're right!  Those numbers were copied out of an Amazon listing and not necessarily for what I'm using.  I don't stand behind those numbers - especially the % silver. But the temperatures do look like the numbers I remember seeing for the various grades of silver solder.  I was always surprised at how close they were in melting point.

Kim   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 16, 2022, 05:57:31 PM
Excellent………….  :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: petertha on December 17, 2022, 08:47:38 PM
So, only 35F difference between Easy and Medium, and 90F diff between medium and hard.  I don't know that I can control the temperature of my soldering that carefully.  If I were doing it in an oven or something, then yes.  But with a torch?  It doesn't seem that easy to do.  But maybe that's just me. Do you find using different grades of solder helpful?
Kim

Maybe you mentioned elsewhere, but what brand of solders, flux & torch are you using? I don't have stringent requirements like this presently, but I'm considering up-ing my game one day. I've heard good things about Sievert torch system & recently discovered a multitude of solders/fluxes from Harris Products, for different alloys & progressive temp ratings like you mentioned. Both vendors requiring some degree of importation gymnastics into my home country, but do-able hopefully.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 17, 2022, 10:38:26 PM
I don't know what Kim is using for the torch, but I can highly recommend the Sievert torches, their system has a range of interchangeable nozzles for different size work. The Harris Black flux is great too, longer lasting than the older ones, doesn't burn off as fast.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2022, 11:03:02 PM
Yes!  Highly recommend the Harris Black Flux, which is what I'm using.  I don't actually know the brand of silver solder I'm using.  It's something I picked up from Amazon several years ago from a jewelry making place and it's been working well, so I just keep buying more of it. Here's the link if you're interested:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BMOV6K0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BMOV6K0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I've only ever used an oxy-acetylene torch for my silver soldering.  I know it's not the best torch to use, but it's worked well enough for me once I figured out how to do it.  The key is to NEVER hold the torch in one place and to keep the tiny tip of the flame from touching the part. I just wave the larger softer part of the flame around on the part.  But always keep it moving.  The torch puts out so much heat you can too easily melt a hole in a part if you dwell somewhere very long (which I have done, though not for some time (knock on wood)).  But as long as I keep it moving and keep the core of the flame off the part it's done quite well for me.

I have heard great things about the sievert torches.  I even looked at getting one at one time but was baffled by all the tips and handles you can get.  And some tips fit some heads but not others.  It was unclear to me what parts I needed to make it work, though I'm sure that's a tractable problem.  In the end, since I'm doing OK with the outfit I've got, I chose not to spend more money there - yet anyway.  I may get a Sievert someday.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2022, 11:08:21 PM
Oops – I thought I was ready for the back head but not so fast!  I forgot a step on the Front Tube Sheet.  I still need to true up the outer edge!

Kozo has you do this BEFORE you solder the smokebox studs to the front of the sheet, but as I did this all in one soldering session, I never got that chance.  And the problem with waiting till after the smoke box studs are in place is that now it’s harder to hold since it has those studs poking out of what USED to be the flat side.

So my solution for this was to drill a couple of 5/16” holes in the wood former for the smokebox studs to go in, thus allowing the part to be mounted flat again.

I drilled the holes using the drill press (or pillar drill if I were on the other side of the pond :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182d-FrontTubeSheet-1-DSC_1723.jpg)

Then I did my best to center it up on the lathe using the 4 jaw.  But the edges on this part are very wonky since it was formed by hammering.  I did my best to center it with the indicator.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182d-FrontTubeSheet-2-DSC_1730.jpg)

You’d think that getting a decent average on the dial indicator would be good enough, but I think the edge is so wonky that the average center changes depending on the place you put the indicator.  But I ended up adjusting the centering of the part as I was turning.  Well, not AS it was turning (that’d be silly.) I’d take a very light pass then see which side was getting cut and what side was left untouched, adjust the jaws a tiny amount accordingly, then try again.  Using this process I got a much better ‘average’ center after a few iterations and was able to get it to where I could hit the desired outside diameter while touching the entire circumference.  I also think I kept any one side from getting TOO thin.  At least that’s my current statement, and I’m sticking to it :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182d-FrontTubeSheet-3-DSC_1732.jpg)

Now, here’s the Front Tube Sheet, in all its final glory.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/182d-FrontTubeSheet-4-DSC_1736.jpg)

It does look nice all trued up like that!

I did find it very hard to measure the diameter of this part.  I don’t have a 4” mic so I used a dial indicator.  And depending on where I measured the diameter I could come out with +5/-0 thou.  I was too afraid to go smaller.  If I need to take more off later I can.  But I just didn’t want to shave off too much, you know?

NOW I think I’m ready to move on to the Back Head!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 17, 2022, 11:18:53 PM
Great result!  And if the OD is a little large or small its possible to take that into account when you make the cylinder, a few taps on that will adjust it to match.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on December 18, 2022, 12:47:46 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work!
Just done a catch-up read, great progress, at this rate steam up in the new year….. errr snow allowing…. isn’t far off!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2022, 02:00:50 AM
... if the OD is a little large or small it's possible to take that into account when you make the cylinder, a few taps on that will adjust it to match.

Good point!  I was picturing skiming off a few thou from the diameter of this part if needed, but adjusting the cylinder is also a good possibility.  Maybe an easier one!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2022, 02:02:15 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work!
Just done a catch-up read, great progress, at this rate steam up in the new year….. errr snow allowing…. isn’t far off!

Cheers Kerrin

Thanks Kerrin,
Well, hydrostatic test in the new year - I have some confidence of that!  Steam up?  Hmm... I'm much less confident of that given my snail's pace of a build!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2022, 04:11:41 PM
******************
Warning - The following message could be disturbing to people knowledgeable in the art of constructing steam boilers.
Viewer discretion is advised.
******************

Well, overnight I came to a terrible realization that made me very sad/angry/frustrated (I'm working my way through all the stages of grief.)

I have just used brass in my boiler!   :slap:  That's a big no-no as the brass will dezincify in the presence of steam, which is apparently, not a good thing for boiler integrity.

But stupidly, without thinking about it, I used brass screws as a way to hold the ribs in place while I silver-soldered them onto the front tube sheet.  How big of trouble am I in here?  What are my options at this point?

Here are a few I came up with:

1) Rationalize that since the brass screws are mostly embedded in the copper or covered by silver solder, so they won't really be exposed to steam. Plus, they aren't an integral part of the boiler structure since the silver solder is what is really holding it together.

2) Ignore it because I know this engine is highly likely to be a mantle showpiece and never really run under steam (unless I do it one time just to prove I can).

3) Re-do the part (which likely means purchasing more copper, since I don't think I have enough extra with what I purchased originally :()

Any thoughts from people with experience with boilers?  How much of a mess have I gotten myself into here? How bad is it really?  Will it likely be fine and I can just ignore it and go forward and sin no more?  Or is it an automatic do-over?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.  I do appreciate it.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 18, 2022, 04:35:32 PM
Good point!  I was picturing skiming off a few thou from the diameter of this part if needed, but adjusting the cylinder is also a good possibility.  Maybe an easier one!

The entire point of Kozo pounding the wooden disk through the seamed tube is to stretch it a small amount. Otherwise the irregularities will not be removed. The tube will be very soft at that point, and stretching is rather like the heatin'and beatin' you just finished.

Of course this process has its limits, but a few thousandths should work.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 18, 2022, 04:40:46 PM
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.  I do appreciate it.

Zero problem.

Even if those screws totally rot away (they won't) it would not create a leak.

I would be more cautious about screws used later to hold the firebox together, for example. Those screws go right through from the steam space to the outside. If they departed there would be a leak.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2022, 04:52:09 PM
Thank you for BOTH of your replies, Gene!
Good thought on driving the wood disk through the boiler barrel.  I'd forgotten about that.

And I do appreciate your input on my brass screw dilemma! That is what I WANT to think, but I don't have the knowledge or experience to have any confidence in it on my own.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2022, 05:01:30 PM
Just to back that up, the yield strength of copper is about 20,000 psi. The yield strength of silver braze, depending on the alloy, is 40,000 - 70,000 psi.

If you look at the contact area of your bar reinforcements, the brass screws really are irrelevant to the joint.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 18, 2022, 05:12:47 PM
As the others said, no problems on the brass screws since they are not exposed to the boiler water, like if they had gone all the way through the ribs. You took care to have the silver solder flow through the joints around the ribs and surround the screws - you are good.


And seconding the comment about the later screws holding sections together - don't know about the A3 book, in the New Shay book I remember Kozo directing the use of copper rivets, home made as needed, to hold the sections together for soldering. Great idea, worked fine on mine. You could do the same on the screws used to hold the end sheets to the sides around the firebox, use a couple copper rivets to hold things in position if needed. Or make a couple small bronze screws - easier to thread than copper since its not so sticky and deformable.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 18, 2022, 05:15:25 PM
Good thought on driving the wood disk through the boiler barrel.  I'd forgotten about that.

It is a lot easier to make a bit more clearance than to deal with too much clearance. I do not believe the front tube sheet will see any more operations until the time to install it in the barrel. Save your custom "fixture" and skim the diameter at that time if you decide you need to do so.

If you want to stretch the barrel to fit keep in mind that only the last half inch or so needs to be adjusted. It could be a bit more difficult to reshape the entire barrel.

In my experience the rolling and joining of the barrel was not a super-high-precision operation. Some adjustment may be needed to accommodate the inevitable variations.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on December 18, 2022, 06:21:33 PM
Hello Kim,

I think point 1) is my choice!

Also, I have to think about how long the brass boilers in our grandfathers' toy steam engines lasted.
I know you can't compare that directly with your locomotive boiler, but you'll never heat the boiler 24 hours a day.

I keep my fingers crossed for you and wish you every success in boiler construction.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2022, 06:49:20 PM
Thank you vstream, Chris, Gene, and Michael for your thoughts on this.

I do appreciate it!

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mark S on December 19, 2022, 05:29:10 PM
Hi Kim, I've had a break from working on my A3 after I retired in April. Then I found one of my wheel crank radii was in error by 0,08mm which took me ages to correct as my wheels are made fro DMLS managing steel blanks. I then quartered the front axle wrongly which created more binding. I think it is all solved now now I am about to start the cylinders. Because I work in metric I create a solid model and new drawings from Kozo's designs. I think he made a mistake and has made the T-Piece holes in the cylinder 1/64" higher than he intended to. See if you agree by comparing height dimensions on page 84 with those on page 85. By the way, I really appreciate all your posts. Best Regards, Mark
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2022, 06:32:35 PM
Hi Kim, I've had a break from working on my A3 after I retired in April. Then I found one of my wheel crank radii was in error by 0,08mm which took me ages to correct as my wheels are made fro DMLS managing steel blanks. I then quartered the front axle wrongly which created more binding. I think it is all solved now now I am about to start the cylinders. Because I work in metric I create a solid model and new drawings from Kozo's designs. I think he made a mistake and has made the T-Piece holes in the cylinder 1/64" higher than he intended to. See if you agree by comparing height dimensions on page 84 with those on page 85. By the way, I really appreciate all your posts. Best Regards, Mark

Glad to hear you got the issues worked out on your drivers!  I'd love to see your DMLS wheels.  Are you pleased with how they turned out? Please post some pictures!

As for the Steam-Tee holes in the cylinder...
I had to dig out my old sketches that I do as I'm making each piece, but I don't see that I did anything other than what is shown in Kozo's drawings.

After studying it some, what I remember giving me a bit of confusion is that the drawing on page 84 (the one labeled Section E-E) shows the heights of the holes from the lower part of the main chassis, which is offset a little from the lower edge of that steam-tee face of the cylinder.

And the drawing on page 85 shows the steam-tee hole positions relative to the center line of the cylinder.  So it's a rather long round-about way to compare them.

But I'm certain I used the locations for those holes exactly as shown in diagram 85 and it all worked out OK.

There is a 1/64" offset in there somewhere to make the steam-tee be centered in those 5-sided holes in the chassis.  The holes are 27/32" high and the steam-tee faces that fit in them are 13/16" high, which leaves 1/32" difference, or 1/64" above and below for clearance.  But that's the only 1/64" offset I noticed in that area.

Maybe if you showed exactly what dimensions you're seeing that look off to you, that could help me see your dilemma.  But at the moment, I'm not seeing an error in those drawings.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 02:02:08 AM
My current resolution to my brass-screws-in-the-boiler saga is to believe that it will be inconsequential to the boiler and ignore it. And to NOT do that anymore! (Or as Mater from the Pixar movie 'Cars' would say “To not ta” :)).  I still have the option to re-do the Front Tube Sheet if I choose to, so I’m not really losing anything by ignoring it for a while.  But for the moment, I think I’m going to press forward and assume all is well.


Chapter 23.6 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Backhead

I started the backhead similar to the front tube sheet, by laying out the location of all the features.  But Kozo suggests setting the size for the hole for the fire door by using the actual fire door ring.  And in order to do this, I need to first make the fire door ring!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183a-Backhead-1-DSC_1739.jpg)

So, I cut some of the 0.080” copper sheet for the door ring and milled it to size, then drilled holes in the ends for copper rivets, which will hold the ring together while silver soldering.  This is what Kozo recommends – so much better than using brass screws, eh? (But in all fairness, he didn’t say anything about part holding for the Front Tube Sheet, so I was on my own – and that, my friends, is where I ran into problems :) ).  The larger chunk in front is going to be formed into the door ring and the little piece still in the vise is the connector to hold the ring closed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183a-Backhead-2-DSC_1743.jpg)

Next, I annealed the copper and then bent it around a 1.25” piece of steel (which is within a few thou over the theoretical size for the door ring).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183a-Backhead-3-DSC_1745.jpg)

Once I got the main ring bent, I worked on putting a short bend of appropriate radius on the copper connector piece, then poked the rivets through.  Now, this sounds easy, but it was a bit of a pain. I had to work at making the ring fit together tight enough to close the gap between the two ends.

Also, it was pretty hard to make the holes connect together. What I SHOULD have done is to mark the location of the rivet holes AFTER the part was bent.  As it was, the holes didn’t quite line up right after bending.  And of course, that’s because the radius of the connector piece is LARGER than the radius of the door ring that it fits on.  And I didn’t take that into account when I was calculating the location of the holes.  So, I reamed them out a little bit, hoping that it won’t be too much for the silver solder to fill. I think I’ll be OK, but we’ll see. Live and learn!  And as long as I keep learning, I’m good with that :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183a-Backhead-4-DSC_1748.jpg)

And that’s how far I got today.  Tomorrow I’ll clean it up, fasten the rivets  (they’re just poked in there for the minute), and silver solder the door ring.

Thanks for checking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 20, 2022, 02:38:06 AM
That ring is good practice for the big boiler shell tube. Coming along great!   :popcorn: :popcorn:



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 20, 2022, 02:40:06 AM
Nice copper work Kim!   Can't wait to see more!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 20, 2022, 03:16:26 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 04:25:49 AM
Thanks Chris, Dave, and Jeff!

The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!  I just pushed that little strip around the bar with my fingers it was so easy!  I did use an implement on the very ends to get them to bend, but really, it was quite easy to bend.  Just getting it to be the right size and lining up the ends was the challenge.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on December 20, 2022, 02:01:21 PM
Kim, you bent a beautiful ring there!
Have you ever worked as a goldsmith?

Michael 😉
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 20, 2022, 02:55:39 PM
The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!

Keep this in mind as you continue to add parts to the boiler and it becomes heavier. It is very easy to have a slight bump during handling and create a ding.  :hammerbash:

DAMHIK  :'(

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 05:07:47 PM
The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!

Keep this in mind as you continue to add parts to the boiler and it becomes heavier. It is very easy to have a slight bump during handling and create a ding.  :hammerbash:

DAMHIK  :'(

Gene

Ouch! Sounds like a story that would make me cry!  :'(

I've been wondering about that... is there any way to harden copper?  Other than work hardening? Or is it once it's annealed always annealed?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 05:57:43 PM
Kim, you bent a beautiful ring there!
Have you ever worked as a goldsmith?

Michael 😉
Thanks Michael!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 20, 2022, 06:24:25 PM
The copper bends like butter after it's annealed!

Keep this in mind as you continue to add parts to the boiler and it becomes heavier. It is very easy to have a slight bump during handling and create a ding.  :hammerbash:

DAMHIK  :'(

Gene

Ouch! Sounds like a story that would make me cry!  :'(

I've been wondering about that... is there any way to harden copper?  Other than work hardening? Or is it once it's annealed always annealed?

Kim
Work hardening is it.


One thing that will help your thoughts - as you do the static pressure tests the boiler will flex ever so slightly, consider that work hardening!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 20, 2022, 07:39:38 PM
Splendid work  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

Boilers seem difficult  ::)  ::)  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2022, 08:04:03 PM
Gooks great!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 10:44:18 PM
Thank you for the input, Chris!  I was afraid that was the answer  :-\

Thanks Roger and vtsteam!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2022, 11:02:12 PM
After cleaning the parts for the firebox door ring, I fluxed and reassembled, then staked the copper rivets in place to hold everything tight.  Then set it up on the hearth for the burnt offering sacrifice:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-1-DSC_1751.jpg)

I actually did the soldering twice, in one heating session. I did it in the position shown in the last picture, but no solder seemed to flow into the joint between the two sides of the ring. So, while the part was still hot, I turned the ring as shown in this picture, dobbed a little more black flux on it, placed a piece of silver solder there, right on top of the joint, and applied more heat.  This worked quite well for me and I didn’t have to clean the part and reheat the whole thing. Which was nice.  I think the black flux helps with this kind of thing (I’ve done this before BTW, so I had some confidence that it would be succssful).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-2-DSC_1753.jpg)

One thing different, however, I was using the hard grade of silver solder.  I decided after our last discussion that I should be using some higher-temperature solder for these early joints.  So I did.  I happened to have some hard-grade solder – not much, but a little (3’)  I may have to buy more.  Anyway, I didn’t notice anything especially different about using the hard solder vs the easy.  Maybe I’m just too ham-fisted with my heating to notice the difference?


After a pickle and some cleanup, here’s the firebox door ring:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-3-DSC_1756.jpg)

Now, back to the backhead proper.  I started work with the backhead seated snuggly on form but I wasn’t as conservative as last time when mounting it.  I thought I could drill a hole to the final size then add the screw.  This worked OK for the first hole/screw, but while drilling the second hole to final size the drill grabbed the copper and bent the backhead pretty good.  I was able to take the backhead off the form and gently pound it back into shape, but my ‘time savings’ by drilling directly to size, rather than drilling the minimum screw size first, didn’t really end up saving me any time.  Just goes to show you, short cuts don’t always pay.  But I eventually got all the holes drilled, or drilled and reamed, as appropriate.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-4-DSC_1757.jpg)

But wait!  I realized I’d forgotten the holes for one of the stays.  So I quickly did the last hole:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-5-DSC_1760.jpg)

Oops, what happens when I do things quickly, just to get them done?  I do it wrong of course.   :facepalm:  This hole was supposed to be 5/64” ABOVE the center of the radius, not AT the center of the radius as I drilled it.  How frustrating is that?  :slap:

The hole in question is circled in red here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-Backhead1.jpg)

After spending some time with the drawings, I think that having that stay offset by 0.078” will not impose any real problems, as long as I ensure that the corresponding hole in the back Firebox Sheet is also off by the same 5/64”.  I doubt that this one stay being 78 thou off will make any appreciable difference to the integrity of the boiler. And it doesn’t seem to be in the way of anything else.  So hopefully, I dodged my stupidity again here.

Here's a side view of the stay in question.  Lowering it by 5/64 of an inch puts it right on the centerline of the main boiler shell (dashed line just below the stay.)  It doesn't seem to interfere with anything so I think I'll be OK.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183b-Backhead-Backhead2.jpg)

If any of you see any reason this will come back to bite me, I’d really appreciate it if you’d say something.

But with the stupid stunts I was pulling today it seemed like a good time to vacate the shop. So I did.

Thanks for looking in on me.  I look forward to hearing if any of you feel having this stay misplaced will actually cause me any issue.

Kim “the Eternally Humbled”
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 20, 2022, 11:14:33 PM
Hi Kim,


Nice progress!  I've noticed the same thing about the black flux, it does seem more forgiving, and have added more like that a couple of times, worked as long as the first round didn't dry it out too much and form soot.  My experience with the Hard solder is that it works as well as the other grades, it just doesn't get as watery thin and flow as far as the other ones.   Best thing I finally learned about boiler soldering was not to be stingy on the amount of solder wire laid on the joints. Early on I had a lot of starved joints that needed redoing, I wasn't realizing that a long seam with 1/4" or so of overlap has a lot of surface area and needs more solder than I thought. The last boiler I did was after that lesson finally sunk in, and it passed the static test with very little rework.


You are doing great, and thinking of all the right things!




 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on December 20, 2022, 11:21:11 PM
Nice work Kim! Almost makes me tempted to get my minnie TE boiler kit out of hibernation that I picked up cheap on ebay years ago
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 21, 2022, 12:40:57 AM
I look forward to hearing if any of you feel having this stay misplaced will actually cause me any issue.

I would expect zero issues. In fact it may actually help. It can be more difficult to get stays sealed leak-free when they are close to a corner like shown in the design.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2022, 05:03:36 AM
Hi Kim,


Nice progress!  I've noticed the same thing about the black flux, it does seem more forgiving, and have added more like that a couple of times, worked as long as the first round didn't dry it out too much and form soot.  My experience with the Hard solder is that it works as well as the other grades, it just doesn't get as watery thin and flow as far as the other ones.   Best thing I finally learned about boiler soldering was not to be stingy on the amount of solder wire laid on the joints. Early on I had a lot of starved joints that needed redoing, I wasn't realizing that a long seam with 1/4" or so of overlap has a lot of surface area and needs more solder than I thought. The last boiler I did was after that lesson finally sunk in, and it passed the static test with very little rework.


You are doing great, and thinking of all the right things!


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Thanks Chris!
Good insight here!  I will try NOT to be stingy with the silver solder!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2022, 05:05:46 AM
Nice work Kim! Almost makes me tempted to get my minnie TE boiler kit out of hibernation that I picked up cheap on ebay years ago

Thanks! You definitely should!  I've seen enough people make boilers on this site to make me optimistic that any of us could do a boiler if we stick with it and are careful!  (He says with lots of optimism :))
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2022, 05:08:31 AM
I look forward to hearing if any of you feel having this stay misplaced will actually cause me any issue.

I would expect zero issues. In fact it may actually help. It can be more difficult to get stays sealed leak-free when they are close to a corner like shown in the design.

Gene

Thanks Gene

This must be the reason my subconscious led me to move the stay down 5/64".  Just that reason there!   :lolb:

If only I were actually that smart!  ::)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 21, 2022, 12:39:31 PM
I assume that the drawing with the ring on top wasn't exact scale.  I wouldn't make the ring any smaller than the plan as it can be difficult to feed coal or other fuel or even to see the fire.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2022, 05:23:18 PM
Hi Kvom,
No, the plans are not to scale.  They are scans I made from the book for my use in the shop. They are randomly scaled - whatever fits on a standard A sheet :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 21, 2022, 05:53:49 PM
I've recently gotten several requests for the BOM I made for this build before I started.  This has prompted me to update it to fix some mistakes I've found.  For example, there are a few places where I had the wrong quantity of items required or an incorrect dimension or part.  I also fixed some material issues where I'd specified putting 1018 instead of stainless steel in areas touching water/steam.  And I updated a few places where I used different material than what I'd initially specified.

There are clearly many more errors that I haven't found, but I figured I might as well fix the ones I noticed :)

So if you downloaded the BOM before today (12-21-22) you might want to go ahead and give it another go.  This one is labeled as "Rev B" so hopefully we'll be able to tell them apart.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2022, 07:36:06 PM
OK, I've got another silver soldering question for you all.

Can you mix hard-grade and soft-grade solder on the same joint?

Here's my situation.  I'm looking at the front tube sheet and thinking "Boy, I'd like to see a little more solder there under those ribs..."  My plan is to do another round of solder on them.  However, if I'm using hard solder for these earlier joints, should I do this second round on the front tube sheet using hard-grade solder?  Or stick with the easy-grade silver solder that I used the first time around?

It might be no big deal either way, but I was just thinking now that I've made that break to using the different grades of solder, should I do it here? Or not?

Any thoughts?
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 22, 2022, 08:49:35 PM
OK, I've got another silver soldering question for you all.

Can you mix hard-grade and soft-grade solder on the same joint?

Here's my situation.  I'm looking at the front tube sheet and thinking "Boy, I'd like to see a little more solder there under those ribs..."  My plan is to do another round of solder on them.  However, if I'm using hard solder for these earlier joints, should I do this second round on the front tube sheet using hard-grade solder?  Or stick with the easy-grade silver solder that I used the first time around?

It might be no big deal either way, but I was just thinking now that I've made that break to using the different grades of solder, should I do it here? Or not?

Any thoughts?
Kim
Yes, you can use equal or lower grade (more towards easy) on an existing joint, no problems there. It could be an issue to use hard on a joint already done with easy, since you would be overheating the easy, melting it completely, and maybe having parts move.  Using an 'easier' solder the second time around is kind of the reason for having it, you can get the new solder to melt and flow without loosening the first solder, as long as you dont overheat it too much. When using a torch on large copper parts, the copper wicks away heat so darn fast that you dont  usuallyhave a large area of solder melting at once - unless you are really overdoing it or using way too big a nozzle, in which case you might overheat so much that you melt the copper!  That is more of a risk on small parts than large ones - the bright glow on the parts would be a big clue.  I like to do the soldering out of sunlight, in dimmer light you can see the color of the metal a lot easier - normally you will get some glow about the time the solder melts.

Hope that all helps! Practice will teach a lot more that you remember more than reading about it - like riding a bike you are soldering? Um, no!  :Lol:   Bad idea!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2022, 11:08:20 PM
Thanks, Chris.  That makes a lot of sense.  Somehow it makes more sense to hear you say it than when I think it   :Lol:

Appreciate the friendly soldering advice.  But as you'll see... I have yet another gripping silver soldering question that I'll be posing in my NEXT post! :)

Thank you!
Kim

And NO soldering on bikes I'm riding. Got it!  :zap:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2022, 11:18:13 PM
Today I carved out the hole for the firebox door.

Kozo says to cut this with a fret saw and file the opening till the ring fits.  But I chose to bore the hole.

I crept up on it carefully and got the ring to fit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183c-Backhead-1-DSC_1762.jpg)

It’s still a bit snug but I plan to get the rest of it with files.  That way  I can hopefully make up for the fact that it isn’t 100% round.  It’s within +/-6 thou of round, but that makes some spots 12 thou smaller in diameter than other spots.  This may be why Kozo said to fit it with a file?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183c-Backhead-2-DSC_1766.jpg)

On another topic – you know how I was whining about having used brass screws in my boiler and was a bit worried about that?  Well, turns out that as I’m reading ahead I see that Kozo uses little brass screws all over the place on the boiler!  Not sure why I didn’t remember this – I’ve read the book through several times. But there’s tons of detail that I don’t catch till I actually NEED to figure something out. Often, that’s when the words Kozo says actually finally sink in and make sense to my pea-sized brain.  But here he’s doing just what I thought I wasn’t supposed to do.  He uses brass screws for holding ribs across the top of the fire box, for holding the foundation plates in place, for holding the fire box to the ring strap, to hold the throat sheet, etc.  He uses them in many places.

But the confusing part is that he sometimes uses copper rivets to hold things in place – like joining the rolled boiler sheet, the fire door ring, attaching the ring strap to the boiler shell, and attaching the steam dome (just to name a few).

Why does he use copper rivets in some places but use brass screws in others? 

There’s one spot where he has you attaching a couple of large subassemblies together (boiler shell and the firebox) and says to use screws here so that you can easily assemble/disassemble as you’re working to get a good fit on the various components. This makes sense in that way but it still leaves you with brass potentially exposed to steam.  For the most part, though, he doesn’t explain why it's OK to use brass screws sometimes, but you need to use copper rivets other times.

Maybe there are some places where it isn’t possible to get to the other side so you couldn't stake the rivets? 

Anyway, it looks to me like Kozo is sanctioning the use of little brass screws in boilers as solder-holding techniques.  So I’m kinda thinking I’m just going to go ahead and use brass screws for the ribs on the back head just like I did on the front tube sheet.

And so ends another gripping episode of "As the Silver Solder Churns.”
Thanks for tuning in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: stevehuckss396 on December 23, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
Nice work as usual.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 23, 2022, 03:36:51 PM
It’s still a bit snug but I plan to get the rest of it with files.

Unless is it really a press-fit I would leave it alone at this time. The best clearance for silver solder is only 0.002" or thereabouts. Very hard to measure in this sort of assembly, and very easy to overcorrect. The inevitable "testing" between now and assembly may knock off some of the high spots.

If you decide at finally assembly time that it is still too tight then a quick touchup is easy to do.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 23, 2022, 05:28:57 PM
Thank you Steve!

Good advice, Gene.  I surely do want to be careful about taking off too much.  Kozo is a proponent of the 2 thou gap.  I have heard that silver solder can fill up to a 6 thou gap.  Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it never the less :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 23, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
Re the small brass screws Kim - there have been many locomotives built to Kozo's designs all over the world. As far as I know none of the little brass screws Kozo recommends for boiler construction workholding has ever caused a problem. Based on that, and the fact that you could drill one out and silver solder in a copper pin or rivet if it ever did cause an issue, I would not worry too much about them. Cheers and Merry Christmas!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 23, 2022, 05:56:32 PM
Good point, Jeff!  That is something that could be repaired if needed.  And as you say, any people have built this engine and I've never heard of a problem with the boilers.

I still wonder why Kozo uses copper rivets sometimes and brass screws other times. Something I'll have to ask him next time I see him!   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 23, 2022, 06:02:31 PM
Thank you Steve!

Good advice, Gene.  I surely do want to be careful about taking off too much.  Kozo is a proponent of the 2 thou gap.  I have heard that silver solder can fill up to a 6 thou gap.  Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it never the less :)

Kim

A little rub with some wet and dry on the tube would be more than adequate if it's too tight kim.  I concur with Kozo...  Though I've filled bigger than .006" gap on some boiler projects in the past.   Much depends on the silver solder you're using.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 23, 2022, 06:23:45 PM
Rivet vs screws...sometimes it's difficult to back or head a rivet or find space for a hammer blow, and conversely sometimes it's difficult to get a wrench or other turning tool on bolts or screws. Sometimes parts want to spring apart before fastening, so rivets are hard to start, and screws and nuts will hold them together while tightening. Other times rivets are less expensive (if you make them yourself) and can be made of the material to be joined, like copper, where that metal screw is difficult or impossible to find. Screws and nuts (if not soldered) are easier to remove. Sometimes one kind of tool and fastener is simply closer to hand than another, on the bench. Sometimes you run out of rivets or run out of screws of a size. Rivets or screws each might look more appropriate in some places. Finally making and setting rivets is fun (where not a particular need or spec for screws), but maybe someone else doesn't enjoy them at all. If of the same material and same diameter a rivet with no threads has greater shear strength, and often it is the fastener of choice in sheet materials for that reason.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2022, 12:07:31 AM
Thank you Steve!

Good advice, Gene.  I surely do want to be careful about taking off too much.  Kozo is a proponent of the 2 thou gap.  I have heard that silver solder can fill up to a 6 thou gap.  Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it never the less :)

Kim

A little rub with some wet and dry on the tube would be more than adequate if it's too tight kim.  I concur with Kozo...  Though I've filled bigger than .006" gap on some boiler projects in the past.   Much depends on the silver solder you're using.

Thanks Dave!
I appreciate hearing the voice of experience! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2022, 12:08:43 AM
Rivet vs screws...sometimes it's difficult to back or head a rivet or find space for a hammer blow, and conversely sometimes it's difficult to get a wrench or other turning tool on bolts or screws. Sometimes parts want to spring apart before fastening, so rivets are hard to start, and screws and nuts will hold them together while tightening. Other times rivets are less expensive (if you make them yourself) and can be made of the material to be joined, like copper, where that metal screw is difficult or impossible to find. Screws and nuts (if not soldered) are easier to remove. Sometimes one kind of tool and fastener is simply closer to hand than another, on the bench. Sometimes you run out of rivets or run out of screws of a size. Rivets or screws each might look more appropriate in some places. Finally making and setting rivets is fun (where not a particular need or spec for screws), but maybe someone else doesn't enjoy them at all. If of the same material and same diameter a rivet with no threads has greater shear strength, and often it is the fastener of choice in sheet materials for that reason.
Thanks Steve,
You have provided a lot of really good reasons for considering one fastener over another.  Thank you for the thoughtful response to my question!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2022, 12:16:33 AM
As I said yesterday, I’m going to go ahead and use brass screws as holders for the ribs while silver soldering.  I know I said I’d go and sin no more, but now I’ve decided it isn’t a sin.  So I can do it while continuing to sin no more.  (sounds like quite the rationalization, doesn’t it?) :)

So first thing, I calculated the locations for some screw holes to hold the ribs.  This time I was smarter and just did the math to find the locations with the part held this way so I didn’t have to relocate the part.  It makes sense, but for the front tube sheet, I did it differently. This way is FAR better (at least it is, if you have a DRO).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_1768.JPG)

Then I moved the setup to the rotary table to trim up the sides of the round part (I also had to swap in some smaller washers for my hold-down screws!) I was able to get a good clean surface all around while still hitting the size shown in Kozo’s plans.  I was a little worried about that, but it worked out and I am quite pleased!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_1771.JPG)

Then I moved the fixture back to the vise and trimmed up the straight edges.  I couldn’t find the width for this part in Kozo’s drawings – not directly anyway.  But it does show how wide the whole thing should be after the outer shell is soldered on.  So I calculated the width of this part based on that.  It’s supposed to be 3” wide.  The copper for the outer shell is 0.080”.  So, 3” – 2 x 0.080” = 2.840”.  However, to get a decent clean-up pass on both sides I had to cut it about 15 thou below that target size.  That’s only about 1/64” so I think I’ll be good anyway. But I was somewhat less pleased with that  :-\
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_1772.JPG)

You can see there’s some clean-up still needed where the straight edge meets the curved one.  So I cleaned that up with some small files (on both sides) being VERY careful not to make an indentation there as Gene warned me about earlier.

Next, I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to fit a 3/8” wide rib in place. 

Now, see how the rib sticks out above the sides of the backhead by 1/8”?  I used a small clamp to hold the rib to the backhead, then clamped the protruding part of the rib in the mill vise.  This allowed me to transfer the location of the existing screw holes in the backhead to the rib.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_1780.JPG)

Then I used a digital angle gauge to make sure I clamped the part level in the vice – remember it’s being held by the rib.  This is a shot of the second screw for the rib.  You can see one brass screw already in place just to the right of the angle gauge.  While it isn’t exact, it’s pretty close.  Close enough to vertical for my purposes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/5-DSC_1775.JPG)

And now, with the digital angle gauge removed I could drill then tap the hole 1-72.  I drilled the hole using the recommended size for steel because 50% threads will be plenty for a solder-holding screw, and also because copper isn’t the easiest stuff to tap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/6-DSC_1777.JPG)

I still need to make the two-part rib and secure it. Then I’ve got a couple of bushings to make and THEN I can silver solder all the parts of the backhead together.

However, I’m in no rush to get to that point.  It’s WAY too cold out to even consider putting my garage door up.  It was 22F when I was out in the shop today!  Well, that was the outside temp.  Inside it was a balmy ~50F.  I dress warm and have an electric heater that keeps me toasty in my shop.  But putting up the garage door would be TOO much.  We’ll have to wait for warmer weather before I consider doing any soldering.

Thanks for checking in on me,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on December 24, 2022, 07:13:44 PM
Looks great, Kim! And, it looks like the PNW is back to our normal warm-ish, rainy, winter weather. :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 24, 2022, 09:02:13 PM
 :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2022, 11:32:19 PM
Thank you Don!

Looks great, Kim! And, it looks like the PNW is back to our normal warm-ish, rainy, winter weather. :)
Yes, it's getting there.  It finally broke above freezing around noon today and our sheet of ice is starting to melt away.  I'm hoping that it will all be clear for Santa to be able to land his sleigh tonight!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2022, 11:43:28 PM
I got a little shop time on this chilly Christmas Eve day, and was able to finish up the backhead ribs.

I cut and shaped the longer of the two-part rib. Then while drilling the hole for the hold-down screw, I felt something funny - like the bit broke through or something.  Turns out the part wasn’t centered correctly so I was drilling down the side of the rib, not in the center :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183e-Backhead-1-DSC_1790.jpg)

Rather than make a new rib, I chose to try and make this one work still.  I flipped it over and re-shaped the end. It’s just a smidge shorter than ideal now, but it should still work fine for a rib.  Not necessarily pretty, but it will be on the inside of the boiler and nobody will see my booboo.

This time I was extra careful when clamping the rib in place and drilling it. My setup here was to clamp the rib in place with a little Kant-Twist clamp then hold that in the mill vise.  It’s kinda hard to make out, but there’s a parallel under the work as packing to hold it level while I drill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183e-Backhead-2-DSC_1783.jpg)

Here it is in place.  I see now in this closeup shot that the rib doesn’t look like a tight fit on the outer edge, but it really is.  It just needs to be twisted clockwise just a bit and it fits much better than this picture shows.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183e-Backhead-3-DSC_1784.jpg)


I cut and mounted the little short piece of rib too, though I apparently forgot to take a picture of that.

With all the ribs fitted I moved to cutting some 1/16” copper sheet for the door latch and hinge.  The hinge part is on the right and latch on the left.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183e-Backhead-4-DSC_1791.jpg)

This is as much as I had time for today.  The rest will wait till after the big holiday!

I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas and that Santa treats you well this year!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: learn2turn on December 25, 2022, 10:09:14 PM
Its so exciting seeing the boiler come together Kim.  A few minor mishaps but you seem to handle them all with ease.  This morning under the Christmas tree I found a copy of Kozos A3 Switcher book for me.  Though I have no intention of starting this project for a few years, I did want time to read and study the process.  I shall follow along with you progress and look forward to doing so.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 26, 2022, 02:24:43 AM
Congratulations!  You must have been a good boy this year!  Santa has excellent taste!  :ThumbsUp:
I look forward to seeing your build when you start :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2022, 05:41:21 AM
I don’t know about you, but I had a wonderful Christmas!  In fact, I had two of them.  We celebrated Christmas on Sunday with those of my kids who could make it back into town this year.  Then yesterday (the 26th) we had another Christmas celebration with my extended family.  What a great time!

But today was a recovery day.  They were predicting a storm coming through in the afternoon, but I thought what better way to spend a stormy day than to play in the shop, right? :)

I started by annealing the little copper pieces I’d cut for the firebox door latch and hinge.  Then I bent them into shape using the vise and a little pounding.  The hinge was the more challenging of the parts since it has two 90-degree bends separated by only 1/2".  The first bend was pretty straightforward. For the second bend, I set it up like this - using a 1/2" steel bar to bend the part around:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-1-DSC_1796.jpg)

And here's after the bend is made.  That worked very well!  I only had a little clean-up to do to get all the sides in alignment with each other.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-2-DSC_1797.jpg)

Next, I drilled the hole in the latch for the copper rivet (that’s a scrap of steel used for packing, so I could drill the hole through):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-3-DSC_1803.jpg)

I did the same for the rivet hole for the hinge.  But for the hinge pin holes, I placed the hinge part around a piece of 1/2" aluminum and drilled all the way through so the hinge pin holes would be aligned.  This picture is shot after I drilled the hole and removed the whole setup from the vise.  It just happens to be resting on the rotary table – the RT wasn’t used in this operation at all (other than a backdrop for the photo shoot :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-4-DSC_1807.jpg)

Now, using that same aluminum block that I’d drilled through, I placed a pin through the hole, slid the hinge down on it, and used that as a jig to round off the back of the hinge bracket on the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-5-DSC_1813.jpg)

Here are the two completed parts setting on the backhead.  The rivets have just been dropped in here, they have not been staked yet.  I won’t do that till I’m ready to solder them in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-6-DSC_1815.jpg)

Speaking of silver soldering – while I was annealing those parts for bending, I took advantage of having the torch out and set up (and the warmer weather) to put a little more solder on the front tube sheet.  I’d decided I wanted to get a little more solder in all those joints. I really want to make sure every joint is good on all the sub-assemblies before I try to solder all the boiler pieces together.  This is only my second boiler and is WAY more complex than the small boiler I made for the little steam tractor.  I’m really going to try and have good, solid, well-filled joints on everything.  Hopefully, that will help me have fewer leaks that need to be patched!   :embarassed:

I did the soldering in two stages this time.  I placed the tube sheet so it was leaning up against a fire brick with one of the ribs set horizontally to allow gravity to help the solder flow into the joint.  Then pickled and cleaned the part and rotated it 90 degrees so the other rib was horizontal and repeated the process.  I think this looks much better and am more pleased with it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183f-Backhead-7-DSC_1799.jpg)

As I was trying to figure out my next steps the power went out.  Here I am sitting out in my VERY dark shop with NO windows in my garage. Luckily, I had an emergency flashlight at hand that I could use to find my way back to the house.  I did try to turn things off as I went in, but it’s hard to tell what’s on when the power's out.  I did unplug most of the big equipment too, just to be safe.

Anyway, that put an end to my shop time for the day.  We were without power for about 7 hours. The storm brought a LOT of wind and knocked out power to well over 100,000 homes.  Luckily, our power was restored about an hour ago. So I took advantage of the power to post my update!

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on December 28, 2022, 06:46:47 AM
Hi Kim,
good to see some more progress.
I hope that the weather conditions will change for you very soon.
We do expect here in Munich for today something about 9° C, in the middle of the winter time.
The forecast is 15° for Saturday, so very unusual also, but the opposite and more comfortably way.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 28, 2022, 01:10:33 PM
Hinge came out well, and the resolder too, just need to keep the shop gnomes out of the wiring!   :zap:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 28, 2022, 02:08:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 28, 2022, 03:06:42 PM
I don't think that boiler will dare to leak after all the care you are taking! That belt sander you built is proving to be a real go to tool, isn't it?  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Lucky you weren't in the middle of a critical or heavy cut on the lathe or mill when the power went off! (Had that happen once when running the big-a$$ lathe in my youth - instant broken carbide and a nasty "step" to remove later).
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 28, 2022, 05:23:00 PM
Thanks Achim, Chris, Jeff, and Ron  :cheers:

Lucky you weren't in the middle of a critical or heavy cut on the lathe or mill when the power went off! (Had that happen once when running the big-a$$ lathe in my youth - instant broken carbide and a nasty "step" to remove later).
Yikes!  Yeah, I thought about that too - that would have really freaked me out if I was operating the lathe or mill.  What made it worse is that the power flickered on and off for 10-20 seconds then - that would have made for some ugly and potentially dangerous machining!  Luckily, all I got was a bit of strobe lighting for a few seconds.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2022, 05:34:31 AM
The last parts for the backhead are some bushings.  These bushings were made from 1/2" bronze rod.  The busing in this picture is for the 3/8” hole. I made two of these since we need another one of this size later for the blow-down valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-0-DSC_1816.JPG)

Here are the three bushings I made.  The larger one is for the 7/16” hole and will be for the lower end of the site glass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-1-DSC_1820.jpg)

Then I did a test fit of all the parts in the backhead before silver soldering.  And yay, they all fit :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-2-DSC_1822.jpg)

So, I took it all apart, cleaned everything thoroughly, and started soldering the pieces to the backhead one by one.  Here’s the first rib after two rounds of silver soldering. My approach now is to do one piece (or set of pieces), clean and inspect, then re-do that joint till I have a good solid fillet with good penetration.  I don’t want to move on to another piece until I’m satisfied with that one. And this rib took two rounds. I also used hard-grade solder for this joint.   I know I said that hard wasn’t that big of a deal, but I have changed my mind.  I definitely am finding it more difficult to get the hard solder to flow than the easy or medium.  Which I guess is the point, eh? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-3-DSC_1825.jpg)

Here is after the first solder session on the other rib.  You can see that there are a couple of spots on the longer section where I really didn’t get good coverage.  I am using a lot more solder than I’m generally used to for these joints.  But it sure seems to be needing it.  BTW, I switched to using Medium grade solder on this rib and it certainly is easier to get it to flow. (I stuck with Medium for the rest of the joints on the backhead.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-4-DSC_1829.jpg)

Guess I didn’t take an ‘after’ shot following the second round of solder on the second rib. But it looked much better. You can kind of see it in the following picture (the joint that points upward).  But the picture is really of my setup for soldering two of the bushings into the backhead.  For soldering, I wanted to lay the backhead upside down and put a ring of solder around the smaller part of the bushing and apply the flame mostly to the front side (underneath).  That’s what this is showing.  You can just make out the silver glint of the solder ring around each bushing.   To keep the bushings from falling out I used a couple of those short pieces of tungsten that can be bent to form a spring clip.  And they worked well for this application.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-5-DSC_1831.jpg)

I ended up needing a second solder session for the bushings too.  The first one, done from the back (as shown above), gave me a pretty good fillet of solder around the inside of the bushings, but I didn’t have a good fillet on the front side, which clearly means the solder didn’t wick all the way through.  So for the second session, I applied the solder from the front and the flame to the back.  Now I have good solder fillets all around on the back AND the front.

Here’s a shot showing the bushings after their two rounds of soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-6-DSC_1835.jpg)

I didn’t take any pictures of the door latch and hinge setup, but I carefully fluxed the joints and staked the rivets to hold the parts in place. Then I soldered these two from the front playing the flame mostly along the back.  Then, without letting the part cool, I flipped it over with the backside up and added some flux on the back side of the rivet, and added some solder from that side.  The rivet joints just don’t seem to get any flow through to the other side of the rivet.  Maybe I do the rivets too tightly?  But if the copper is tight, won’t that seal well too?  I don’t know.  But I put solder fillets on both sides regardless.

And here’s a shot of the front side of the completed backhead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/183g-Backhead-7-DSC_1839.jpg)

This was the culmination of at least SEVEN unique clean, flux, solder, pickle, and clean cycles.  And several of the soldering sessions in there consisted of multiple flux/solder application cycles during one heating session.  This took me over four hours to do all of this, with most time spent cleaning between soldering sessions.  But I feel that I’m getting good joints here, and that gives me hope that I may be able to get a usable pressure vessel eventually (fingers crossed).

Based on my experience so far, I’m going to stick to using the medium-grade solder for all of the initial soldering sessions and switch to easy grade when I get to soldering the major subcomponents together.

Thanks for looking in on my build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 30, 2022, 11:47:44 AM
The solder looks to be nicely 'Wetted' in all the places it should be  :ThumbsUp:

Per           :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on December 30, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Did you provide a frame hole for a 2nd blowdown valve?  Having one on each side is useful.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 30, 2022, 01:32:11 PM
Backhead's looking great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 30, 2022, 01:32:53 PM
Those joints look great Kim!    Blow down both sides is not a bad idea, but if it works for Kozo.....

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 30, 2022, 01:33:18 PM
Great work, being thorough will pay off in the end! The bushings are good practice for the stay bolts in the firebox later too.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: mike21alpha on December 30, 2022, 05:45:56 PM

The stairs and railing turned out very nice!

Hi Kim, and a Happy New Year to you and yours,

Now, I am binge following this brilliant thread having just joined the group this morning.  Your subject is not to my taste, being a Brit (Sorry, but I find American locomotives err - ugly  :o) but, without doubt, it is beautifully executed.  I question the American design choices sometimes and the railings are a case in point.  I don't think they are 'nice'.  I think they are weird.  Don't misunderstand me here, I understand that you have followed the drawing but why are the railing uprights not, well, upright?  On this side of the Atlantic, they would have been vertical as opposed to perpendicular to the surface.  The same is true in household stairs, is it not?  I firmly believe, had that tender been designed by the likes of Fowler or Stannier, the steps would have been wide enough to mount the railings to and the vertical parts would have been vertical.  As they are, they just look strange.

Having said all that and now I have had my whinge, I am about to start my own 20mm scale loco (3 1/2" Gauge, LBSC design) and am gleaning all the advice I can. so I am really enjoying your excellent thread and am looking forward to the conclusion.  Oh! just for the record, I am not brave enough to document my efforts - yet!  I have been guilty of making some howling cock-ups making some of the tooling that I have been making. I am reletively new to machine tools, being taught, in the military, to make stuff with hand tools alone. I generally prefer, as you seem to do, to start the part again. Anyway, from what I have seen, so far, you are doing bloody well! :ThumbsUp:

Allthe best

Ian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 30, 2022, 07:41:46 PM
Thank you Per, Kvom, Jeff, Dave, Chris, and Ian!  :cheers:

Did you provide a frame hole for a 2nd blowdown valve?  Having one on each side is useful.

No, only one blowdown valve for this build.  I'm sticking with the plans that Kozo did.  I don't have enough knowledge to second guess his design, even if it would be a good idea.  And I believe there is something in the way on the other side (an air reservoir - which is really a battery holder for the headlight).  So I'd have to move that somewhere - or put the second blowdown valve in a different location?  Regardless, I'm sticking with the one.

Your subject is not to my taste, being a Brit (Sorry, but I find American locomotives err - ugly  :o) but, without doubt, it is beautifully executed.  I question the American design choices sometimes and the railings are a case in point.  I don't think they are 'nice'.  I think they are weird.  Don't misunderstand me here, I understand that you have followed the drawing but why are the railing uprights not, well, upright?  On this side of the Atlantic, they would have been vertical as opposed to perpendicular to the surface.  The same is true in household stairs, is it not?  I firmly believe, had that tender been designed by the likes of Fowler or Stannier, the steps would have been wide enough to mount the railings to and the vertical parts would have been vertical.  As they are, they just look strange.
Ian, Yes, I did find it a bit odd that some of the stair uprights are straight up and down, and some at an angle.  But as you say, I'm following the plans. Over time, I've grown accustomed to it.

And I am very glad you have found a locomotive to build that is more to your tastes!  Isn't it wonderful that there are so many different styles to choose from?  :)

I'm also glad you're getting some value from my build log.  I will say that I'm a fairly green machinist and I've made I make plenty of mistakes.  But by sharing them here I have gotten great help from many kind and generous people, willing to share their knowledge and talent with me to help me get better. And to me, that's what it's all about - learning while doing something fun :)

I would encourage you to share your build with us here too.  Nobody here expects anyone to be perfect.  We're all learning at whatever level we're at.  You learn more if you share.  It does make a big difference I can tell you.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with your LBSC build!  Sounds like a wonderful project!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 30, 2022, 09:44:52 PM
Thank you Per, Kvom, Jeff, Dave, Chris, and Ian!  :cheers:

Did you provide a frame hole for a 2nd blowdown valve?  Having one on each side is useful.

No, only one blowdown valve for this build.  I'm sticking with the plans that Kozo did.  I don't have enough knowledge to second guess his design, even if it would be a good idea.  And I believe there is something in the way on the other side (an air reservoir - which is really a battery holder for the headlight).  So I'd have to move that somewhere - or put the second blowdown valve in a different location?  Regardless, I'm sticking with the one.

Your subject is not to my taste, being a Brit (Sorry, but I find American locomotives err - ugly  :o) but, without doubt, it is beautifully executed.  I question the American design choices sometimes and the railings are a case in point.  I don't think they are 'nice'.  I think they are weird.  Don't misunderstand me here, I understand that you have followed the drawing but why are the railing uprights not, well, upright?  On this side of the Atlantic, they would have been vertical as opposed to perpendicular to the surface.  The same is true in household stairs, is it not?  I firmly believe, had that tender been designed by the likes of Fowler or Stannier, the steps would have been wide enough to mount the railings to and the vertical parts would have been vertical.  As they are, they just look strange.
Ian, Yes, I did find it a bit odd that some of the stair uprights are straight up and down, and some at an angle.  But as you say, I'm following the plans. Over time, I've grown accustomed to it.

And I am very glad you have found a locomotive to build that is more to your tastes!  Isn't it wonderful that there are so many different styles to choose from?  :)

I'm also glad you're getting some value from my build log.  I will say that I'm a fairly green machinist and I've made I make plenty of mistakes.  But by sharing them here I have gotten great help from many kind and generous people, willing to share their knowledge and talent with me to help me get better. And to me, that's what it's all about - learning while doing something fun :)

I would encourage you to share your build with us here too.  Nobody here expects anyone to be perfect.  We're all learning at whatever level we're at.  You learn more if you share.  It does make a big difference I can tell you.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with your LBSC build!  Sounds like a wonderful project!
Kim

Well Put Kim!    The only way to not make mistakes is to not do anything.    Love the build Kim!   Keep it coming! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 31, 2022, 12:25:49 AM
Awesome results Kim. Question though are you placing pieces if solder around the solder areas? You would get better penetration that way then apply more if needed. With the flux applied place pierces in it. On round objects make a ring of solder. On long rails place pieces along the rail. Just my two cents worth. Great job so far we always see improvement's in your work.  :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2022, 12:54:25 AM
Awesome results Kim. Question though are you placing pieces if solder around the solder areas? You would get better penetration that way then apply more if needed. With the flux applied place pierces in it. On round objects make a ring of solder. On long rails place pieces along the rail. Just my two cents worth. Great job so far we always see improvement's in your work.  :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Great advice, Don.  Yes, I'm placing solder right at the joints just as you describe, which is my usual practice.  And then feeding in some additional solder as needed. And for these joints, I almost always need more solder.  I don't quite know why.  I'm doing my usual practice of making little punch marks on the bottom of the part to add a little room for the solder to flow. Well, I didn't do that for the bronze bushings because I had no place to put a punch mark.  The ledge around the bushing is very thin - like 1/32" or so.  Not enough room for me to get a punch mark in there.

The main difference between this and most of my other soldering is the material. I usually silver solder brass or steel.  This is copper (and some bronze).  The solder seems to flow differently on the copper.  Or the joints seal differently on the copper.  Maybe I need to leave bigger spaces between the parts with copper?

Anyway, that's why I'm doing multiple runs on the same joint and using more solder to try to get good fillets around all edges.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 31, 2022, 01:48:16 AM
Awesome results Kim. Question though are you placing pieces if solder around the solder areas? You would get better penetration that way then apply more if needed. With the flux applied place pierces in it. On round objects make a ring of solder. On long rails place pieces along the rail. Just my two cents worth. Great job so far we always see improvement's in your work.  :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Great advice, Don.  Yes, I'm placing solder right at the joints just as you describe, which is my usual practice.  And then feeding in some additional solder as needed. And for these joints, I almost always need more solder.  I don't quite know why. 

Kim
Needing more solder is always the case when soldering but you can minimize that by changing the diameter of your solder. Placing small diameter solder will be sucked up quiet fast by a larger diameter piece your soldering. So it pays to have different diameter solder handy. This will help mimimize having to resolder multiple times.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 31, 2022, 02:14:59 AM
On long wide joints like those I'll often put down 2 lines of the wire solder, that cut down on the rework I had to do. Great job so far!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 31, 2022, 02:39:08 AM
Wonderful to watch!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

On the subject of solder penetration of rivets, I don't think that's possible, since properly they make a gas tight joint. I think the solder is only meant as a fillet, and an extra. I don't think making rivets looser to get solder flow would make sense structurally.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2022, 05:44:29 AM
Thanks Don and Chris!

On the subject of solder penetration of rivets, I don't think that's possible, since properly they make a gas tight joint. I think the solder is only meant as a fillet, and an extra. I don't think making rivets looser to get solder flow would make sense structurally.
Thanks Steve,
That makes a lot of sense and matches my experience here.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 31, 2022, 03:18:27 PM
That makes a lot of sense and matches my experience here.

I mostly disagree with that approach.

In this sort of construction the rivets are primarily for alignment and holding the parts for silver soldering. If they are smashed down gas-tight there will be zero solder flow between the parts that are being joined. The only strength added by the silver solder will be from the thin ring around the edges.

Adding small bumps on the joining faces and gentle rivet application are better techniques. (This is spelled out by Kozo.)

If there is no solder fillet on at least one end of the rivet it is likely that a leak will show up. The boiler will be heated and cooled many times during construction. "Gas-tight" rivets can loosen. Gotta have the silver solder.

Of course that does not matter much for the hinge parts, but it is very important when joining parts that will be under pressure. A few small copper rivets will not be enough to create a strong pressure-resistant joint.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 31, 2022, 03:26:54 PM
I guess I'd like to see actual tensile test results for silver soldered riveted joints both ways.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 31, 2022, 03:43:19 PM
The rest of the boiler is held together by silver solder alone, so the rivets in those few places are not needed for strength. Kozo just uses them for alignment/holding during soldering as Gene said.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on December 31, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
Following instructions from the designer is absolutely the only way to go.

But I am still interested in the physical mechanical side of rivet use and soldering.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 31, 2022, 05:05:51 PM
Interesting and very relevant discussion!  Thanks for thinking this out with me here Gene, Steve, and Chris!

I have been following Kozo's recommendations of adding the bumps (punch marks) on the mating surfaces to be joined - such as the latch and hinge on the backhead.  I've also made sure that my hole for the alignment rivet is several thou larger than the rivet shank.  However, what seems to be happening is that when I stake the rivet, the copper is soft enough that it expands to fill the hole, thus preventing any solder from flowing through.

I am getting penetration under the part and around the rivet head. But no flow-through to the back side.  Which is why I did soldering on the back side too - to get a fillet of solder there even though no flow-through.

Should I not be staking the rivet?  In the instruction in the book, it doesn't explicitly say to stake the rivet, but it does show to put the rivet in from the back so the head is on the bottom and the end you stake is on the top (easier access for staking was my assumption), and in another place it says "Don't stake the rivet yet" in one place, implying that you would be staking it later.  So I've been staking the rivets.

And as i mentioned above, I don't see HOW you'll ever get flow through the hole when you stake the rivet.  I'm not really pounding the rivet too hard when I stake it - just enough to keep things from moving.  But still, it seems to be enough to prevent flow-through.

Is this the wrong approach?  Should I not stake the rivet at all?  This is relevant because I'll soon be making the main boiler shell whose entire construction is based on rivets and silver solder.  So I'd like to do it the best way! Whatever that is...

Thank you for the discussion,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 31, 2022, 05:39:35 PM
On mine I just tapped on the rivets enough to expand the head enough to hold, did not flatten/round over like I would for a normal rivet where its doing all the work. Like you, I applied solder from both sides, Whether it flows through the shank of the rivet I think is irrelevant, since the main strength for places like the striip down the length of the boiler is from the joints between the strip and the shell. Treat the rivet more like a bushing that you just want to seal around, its not taking much pressure directly.  If the rivet was a strength item, there would be a lot more of them close together! Later on when you get to the stay bolts, those are a different thing altogether, they are strength items.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 31, 2022, 06:30:51 PM
I would.agree with Chris.   If you look at the material properties of the copper rivet as compared to that of the silver solder  im sure you will find the silver solder far stronger.  Then add to that the available bond area of the solder which probably at least 1 order of magnitude bigger than the area provided by the rivets  and my money is on the solder.  The rivets are very good for fixturing.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 31, 2022, 07:13:21 PM
When you stake the rivet is expands in the joint and depending on how much clearance between it and the work piece will seal the hole it’s in. The  head and staked head puts pressure on both sides of the work, but heat can change that pressure amount. Sealing it with solder helps it keep that seal. My two cents….

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 31, 2022, 09:32:57 PM
On mine I just tapped on the rivets enough to expand the head enough to hold, did not flatten/round over like I would for a normal rivet where its doing all the work.

You said it more elegantly than I did.  :NotWorthy:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 01, 2023, 06:49:58 AM
Thanks for the input everyone.  Sounds like the consensus is to just gently stake the rivets in place.  That's what I believe I've been doing, but I'll see if I can be even more gentle about it.

Thank you,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: pmerritt on January 02, 2023, 02:55:30 AM
Hi Kim,

I’ve been catching up on your excellent build log, which I always enjoy.  I have a question. Why do you consider yourself to be a green machinist? You have presented many excellent builds here at MEM!! Equally impressive, if not more so is your documentation! Your descriptions, mistakes and all, are remarkable and bring enormous value to this forum. So I’d like to say you are anything but a “green” machinist, but instead are a very good machinist and excellent teacher. Your build logs bring me a great deal of enjoyment and the techniques you share are invaluable. Many, many thanks for your contributions and I’m looking forward to the next installment of this excellent build.

Peter
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 02, 2023, 03:11:12 AM
 :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2023, 05:46:53 AM
That's very generous of you Peter!    :embarassed:

I have improved in my skills and understanding a lot over the last many projects.  But I still want people to know that everything I've learned, I've learned from the kind and generous people on this forum!

I'm not a machinist by trade, I'm an electrical engineer who did a lot of software development then turned to the dark side and did management for the later 20 years of my career.  So this is very different than my professional life.  Which is one of the reasons I enjoy it so much! 

I just like to continue to learn.  And I hope that my mistakes can help others along the way. But documenting my failures here sure has helped me a lot too!  ;D

Thank you again for your kind words.  And thank you too, Dave  O:-)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: matthew-s on January 03, 2023, 12:08:04 AM
Hi Kim,

I’ve been catching up on your excellent build log, which I always enjoy.  I have a question. Why do you consider yourself to be a green machinist?  … Many, many thanks for your contributions and I’m looking forward to the next installment of this excellent build.

Peter

Couldn’t agree more! This thread is a gold mine, and the work itop-notch!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 03, 2023, 02:03:59 AM
Thank you, Matthew!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2023, 11:44:49 PM
While waiting for my gearbox to leak (see my post on my oil leak (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11191.msg260066.html#msg260066)) I decided to go ahead and make some progress on the boiler.  And the next part is the Firebox Sheets.


Chapter 23.7 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Firebox Sheets

The firebox sheets have already been formed.  I just have to drill out the appropriate holes and solder some staybolts in.  Should be easy, right? :)

I decided to start by making the staybolts.  There are seven of them required for the front and rear firebox sheets.  These staybolts are 0.190” in diameter – just the right size for a 10-32 thread.  I would have made them out of 1/4" bronze rod but I couldn’t source any. The smallest bronze rod I could find was 3/8”.  So that’s what I used.

Here I’ve just threaded one end of the first stay bolt:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-1-DSC_1851.jpg)

And here are all seven of the staybolts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-2-DSC_1856.jpg)

As I was marking out the location for all the firebox sheet holes I discovered that the outside of the formed sheets are about 34 thou too narrow! The finished size should be 2.210”, but you can see they’re well under that at around 2.176”.  How did that happen?  I need to have a little copper to mill off the edges so that I can get it to a uniform size. When it’s undersized, that clearly won’t happen  :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-3-DSC_1858.jpg)

Looking at my former, you can see that the edges have mushed in a bit…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-4-DSC_1860.jpg)

Looking along the side of the former you can see a clear indentation along the edge.  This must be how they ended up undersize.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-5-DSC_1862.jpg)

Maybe I was too harsh in my pounding?  Maybe maple isn’t hard enough wood to use for formers?  But it seemed to work OK on the other parts.  Ah well, what to do now…?

I decided to anneal the firebox sheets again and try opening the sides up just a tad to give me some extra room so I can even the edges up later.  After playing with them for some time, I think I’ve got them to a better size.  At least I’ll be able to shave off a few thou on each side to even them up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-6-DSC_1867.jpg)

With that done, I marked the firebox sheets out again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184a-FireboxSheets-7-DSC_1873.jpg)

Tomorrow I’ll start drilling and boring the holes.

Thanks for looking in on my trials and travails.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 07, 2023, 01:14:25 AM
I would have made them out of 1/4" bronze rod but I couldn’t source any. The smallest bronze rod I could find was 3/8”.  So that’s what I used.

I usually buy bronze from McMaster-Carr. They have a lot of grades and sizes. Prices are competitive.

For anyone not in the US I think this will not work. McMaster-Carr does not ship outside the country, at least for the small-order guys like us.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2023, 05:19:05 AM
Thanks Gene,
I looked at McMaster too.  I'm using 932 bearing bronze and even McMaster only has that down to 3/8".  Maybe I should have looked at a different kind of bronze but this one has worked for me in the past and isn't TOO expensive (though bronze isn't ever cheap).

Thanks for the pointer!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 07, 2023, 05:25:56 AM
I've noticed the same thing about the bronze rod, I wonder if the continuous cast process they make it with only works down to the 3/8" range? Or there isn't enough demand for it smaller from the industrial customers. I also wish they would make rectangular 303 stainless in more small sizes.


Anyway, love watching this build!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 07, 2023, 03:03:09 PM
The 930-series bronzes are high-leaded and intended for bearing applications. Probably why they are not made in small sizes. No doubt those bronzes are still fine for stays in a Kozo design.

I typically use 510 or 544 phosphor bronze for stays. 544 has some lead, 510 just a trace of lead, but they are very strong and solder well. A bit more difficult to machine nicely, but quite doable. McMaster has 544 in sizes down to 3/16".

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 07, 2023, 04:09:57 PM
The 930-series bronzes are high-leaded and intended for bearing applications. Probably why they are not made in small sizes. No doubt those bronzes are still fine for stays in a Kozo design.

I typically use 510 or 544 phosphor bronze for stays. 544 has some lead, 510 just a trace of lead, but they are very strong and solder well. A bit more difficult to machine nicely, but quite doable. McMaster has 544 in sizes down to 3/16".

Gene
Thanks Gene!
This is good to know.  I had no clue what bronze to choose for this, so I went with what was most readily available and least expensive (and that I'd used before).
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2023, 12:30:22 AM
I mounted the front firebox sheet to one of the formers and proceeded to drill out the lower 3 holes for the staybolts.  These will eventually be tapped 10-32. You can see two of the staybolt holes on the right side of the piece.  The middle staybolt hole is currently filled by a hold-down screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184b-FireboxSheets-1-DSC_1875.jpg)

After marking the centers of each of the tubes (two of them have hold down screws in them) I wanted to do a sanity check to make sure they looked lined up with the front tube sheet holes.  And they looked pretty good – hard to tell too precisely, but it seemed at least in the ball park.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184b-FireboxSheets-2-DSC_1879.jpg)

I drilled out all the holes to 1/2", playing musical hold-down screws.  Then bored the top hole out to 3/4".  At this point I wanted to do another sanity check. And I realized that since the holes are symmetrical about the center line, I could filp the front tube sheet over and that would make it easier to check the hole locations.  I wanted to do this now because if my 1/2" drilled holes were off, I still had some material to work with and could still potentially fix my error.  But it looked quite good!  And (spoiler alert) after all three were bored they aligned just perfectly!  Yay!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184b-FireboxSheets-3-DSC_1886.jpg)

After boring out the last of the tube holes I milled the sides of the firebox sheet to the required width of 2.210”.  I’m glad I took the time to adjust those sides a bit yesterday or I’d have been really sad at this point!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184b-FireboxSheets-5-DSC_1892.jpg)

I will round over the top of the firebox sheet after I get the other one up to this point. That way I only have to line up the rotary table once for both of them!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 08, 2023, 01:10:31 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2023, 01:41:54 AM
Nicely done!    :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 08, 2023, 02:31:06 AM
That's coming along just fine Kim!   keep walking along... it's coming together


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2023, 05:22:19 AM
Thanks Jeff, Chris, and Dave!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 08, 2023, 11:37:26 AM
Great to see that things are going your way again Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Per               :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on January 08, 2023, 01:15:16 PM
Nicely saved and coming along well  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 08, 2023, 03:59:18 PM
Still following along with pleasure, Kim. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 08, 2023, 04:38:02 PM
I’m glad I took the time to adjust those sides a bit yesterday or I’d have been really sad at this point!

Measure three times and cut once.

Don't be like cnr6400.  :lolb:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 08, 2023, 05:42:27 PM
You got that right Gene!  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2023, 08:08:44 PM
 :ROFL:

You guys are too funny!

Thanks, everyone for the kind comments! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: learn2turn on January 08, 2023, 08:20:51 PM
I'm still following along Kim and things are looking grand.  Seeing you progress on this boiler is giving me the itch to start my own vertical boiler but I am a ways from being experienced enough to do that.  I do learn a lot from your posts and appreciate everything you are doing.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2023, 08:24:02 PM
Thanks!  Glad the thread can be helpful.  But most of the really good info comes from all the others, I just collect it here by making mistakes and asking for help :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 08, 2023, 11:20:43 PM
 :Love:…….

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2023, 11:46:13 PM
Thanks Don!

Picking up with the rear throat sheet, I put it on one of the formers and drilled the holes for the staybolts.  I’m using the clamp to hold the part in place on the former as I drill the holes. Then I’ll add hold down screws through the staybolt holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184c-FireboxSheets-1-DSC_1895.jpg)

Then I bored the large hole for the firebox door ring.  I tried to be more careful on this side so the hole wouldn’t get quite as sloppy as the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184c-FireboxSheets-2-DSC_1896.jpg)

With that done, I milled the straight edges of the rear firebox sheet straight and to the specified width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/184c-FireboxSheets-3-DSC_1900.jpg)

I still have to shape the radiused top to the firebox sheets, but I want to get the throat sheet up to this state too. That way I can do all the RT work with a single zeroing-in.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 09, 2023, 11:53:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2023, 11:58:46 PM
Chapter 23.8 – Machining and Silver Soldering the Throat Sheet

Now for the throat sheet.  I thought I was being so smart to use a single longer piece of wood to make the throat sheet former.  But what happened, is that I ended up cutting off the pivot point that I now need to make the inside radius on the throat sheet.  Which was fine at the time, cause I didn't need it once it had done it's job. But NOW, I need it again   :embarassed:

While contemplating on what to do about this I realized that the backhead and the throat sheet use the exact same center for their respective radii. And they start at the same base level for the part. So I could take mount the throat sheet former on top of the backhead former and use the backhead former’s center hole for aligning the radius cut on the rotary table.  And, what was even more cool, is that I’d made alignment pin holes in exactly the same locations in the two formers (the hole in the bottom center).  (Note the tips sticking up on either side of the throat sheet  in upper right of this picture - those will feature big time in the problem I'm about to run into, but at this point, I don't know it yet - but notice them... those little stinky devils!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-1-DSC_1902.jpg)

So, using a 1/4" drill bit as an alignment pin, and clamping some straight edges in place to keep the formers aligned, I attached the two formers with some screws.  Pretty neat, eh?  I thought so.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-2-DSC_1905.jpg)

And, as with the other parts, I then was able to use the center hole as a reference for making all the rest of the features.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-3-DSC_1911.jpg)

Using that reference, I drilled the three staybolt holes in the throat sheet and used two of those as hold-downs to keep the part on the former.

And I proceeded to even up the straight edges of the throat sheet.  This went beautifully, till I got to my final pass on one side and WHUMP – the mill grabbed the tip end of the copper and pulled it all out of whack :(  (Remember the foreshadowing above?  >:()

It can be hard to see here, so I put in two different views of the same ugly thing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-4-DSC_1914.jpg)
Shot two of the sadness:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-5-DSC_1913.jpg)

This is the downside (as someone already said) of copper being so malleable (and grabby).

As you might guess, this was rather frustrating.  I tried to bend it back into place without moving the part.  My former stack had shifted a bit too. So I worked on getting it back into alignment while also trying to form the throat sheet back into shape.  I think I did OK in getting things back in place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185a-ThroatSheet-6-DSC_1916.jpg)

But this seemed like a good time to stop for the day.  I’m trying to decide if I want to anneal the copper to better form it back into shape? Or if that would just make the copper softer for the remaining machining operations.  I still have to mill the inside radius. (and maybe this edge again?)  And I don’t know how I’m going to do that without more of this fancy grabbing action.  But I know people have done it. So maybe if I just do it really carefully and gently – taking EVER so small of cuts.  But those outer tips just aren't supported as well as the rest of the part, so I’m not sure what else I can do differently.

I’ll think about what I want to do here. And of course, I’m always open to suggestions!

Thanks for looking in on me,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 10, 2023, 02:12:12 AM
Ouch! Nasty grab on that edge!  Hope you can recover it.  Don't know if it will have the reach, but maybe try using a smaller diameter cutter, like a 1/8 diameter. With the smaller flutes they tend to grab the corners less. That narrow tip is tough. Is there a way you could flip the part over so the cutter is pulling from the center out past the corner instead? Or hand file it?  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 10, 2023, 02:50:53 AM
Oh wow! Things do happen and agree with Chris on the smaller cutter….


Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 10, 2023, 06:12:11 PM
I think I would: 1) use a smaller end mill as suggested. 2)Stop short of the edge and finish off with a Dremel or file. Another one to chalk up to experience!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2023, 11:07:56 PM
Thanks for the great advice Chris, Don and Ron!

This is basically what I did - used a smaller end mill, took even LIGHTER cuts and went very slowly at the ends.  And then finished everything up with a file :)

I'll post an update shortly and give you a full report!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2023, 12:24:40 AM
To keep you from having to live through my stress, I let you know up front, that I think everything has turned out alright in the end. :)  Thanks for the helpful input from you all (again!).  You have saved my bacon many times on this (and other) project(s).  Thank you all!

However, before we get to the happy, I have to drag you through the roller coaster ride.

I did some more hammering on the part and got things aligned quite well.  So I didn’t have to resort to another annealing cycle.

I decided to leave the outside edges a bit large since that’s where things went south yesterday – when I tried to take those tips down to size.  I’d done the full length up to within 1/8-1/4” of the tip.  And I decided to try to bring the tips down.  Bad idea.  So rather than try that again I decided I’d file off the outside of the tips to match the rest of the outside edge, but AFTER I’d done the inside radius of the throat.

Having made that decision, I centered up the rotary table and centered my holding jig on the RT using a 1/4" gauge pin.  Taking the advise of several of you here, I choose a smaller end mill.  I went with a 3/16” 2 flute HSS end mill because that was the smallest one I had that would reach across the part.  And I took very small (5 thou) passes.  Things seemed to be going OK, till the tips got very thin.  Then on the side that was climb milling, it grabbed again. This time it snapped the end mill.  It did deform the part just a tad, but not nearly like yesterday.  Here you can see the broken end mill (I don’t know where the rest of it went, but it went flying! This is why we wear eye protection!):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-1-DSC_1917.jpg)

Here you can see how the tip was deformed a bit – not too bad, but it was clearly bent inwards.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-2-DSC_1919.jpg)

Luckily, this end mill was 2-ended, so after bending the bent tip back in place as best I could, I turned the end mill around and was able to continue.  This time I decided to only mill the upper portion of the throat sheet - the part that had the continuous radius.  That lower part is the more troublesome part since it is just those two end tips and they have NO support whatsoever. So I left the lower portion unmilled and I figured I could clean that part up with a file later.

Also, I took even SMALLER cuts (3 thou) and went REALLY REALLY slowly while milling those tips on either side (especially the ‘climbing’ side).  While this was a very tense and slow process, it ended up working.  No more mishaps.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-3-DSC_1922.jpg)

After that, I filed the part smooth on the outside edges and along the lower side of the tips on the inside radius.  Looking at this picture, I might still have some filing work to do. But in person, it looked pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-4-DSC_1926.jpg)

Here’s an above shot, showing all the staybolt holes and the trimmed radius and sides.  This picture makes it look like the left side bends out on top.  I’ll check that again, but I really think that’s just parallax in the camera.  I used a straightedge to make sure both outside edges were perfectly flat (well, as perfectly as I could tell by eye anyway, I that should be good enough).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-5-DSC_1929.jpg)

Now one last check.  Will all the holes line up?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-6-DSC_1930.jpg)

Yes!  They do!  And there’s just enough room between them for the boiler shell!  I’m really happy with that now!  Again, the upper tip on the throat sheet looks like it sticks out, but I don’t think it does.  I believe it to be as straight as the tip on the bottom here.  But I will verify that before I go on.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185b-ThroatSheet-7-DSC_1933.jpg)

Now all I have left for these five formed boiler parts is to finish up the outside radii on the firebox sheets and to solder the staybolts and firebox door ring in place.

Slowly but slowly, I’m making progress!

Thanks for sticking with me ;)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 11, 2023, 12:41:39 AM
Nice save Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 11, 2023, 12:55:45 AM
Glad it got there in the end. Isn't copper fun?   :paranoia:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 11, 2023, 01:16:15 AM
Working perfectly with an end goal of total precision is always good.  :LittleAngel:

In this case however, Kozo has you covered with that little "Y" piece he adds.

Wonder if he had the same difficulty with those sharp ends? (I know I did.)  :thinking:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 11, 2023, 02:23:25 AM
"Y"? because Kozo likes you!  :Lol: (remembering the Mickey Mouse club)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2023, 04:54:34 AM
Thanks Dave, Chris, Gene, and Jeff!

"Y"? because Kozo likes you!  :Lol: (remembering the Mickey Mouse club)
Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?
K-O-Z-O-H-I-R-A-O-K-A

He even has the right number of letters in his name to make the song work!   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 11, 2023, 11:44:54 AM
Oh man - I know that I would have been rather unhappy, if I encountered what you just endured Kim  :wallbang: - so I'm sure that you are quite relieved to end up with usefull parts without withnessmarks  :LittleAngel:

All in all a great Save - let further progress commence  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 12, 2023, 12:11:35 AM
Great save Kim, on a really difficult piece to mill!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I had a far less important piece of 1/2" steel edge grab today. Didn't hurt the steel much but broke two flutes of my only carbide mill. So I can just imagine your reaction when the copper grabbed.  :Mad: In my case, mad at myself.

For me it had the benefit of going back to HSS mills and sharpening up a bunch of them today, and it was smooth cutting after that.

Great progress on the boiler!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 12, 2023, 12:16:53 AM
Great save Kim, on a really difficult piece to mill!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I had a far less important piece of 1/2" steel edge grab today. Didn't hurt the steel much but broke two flutes of my only carbide mill. So I can just imagine your reaction when the copper grabbed.  :Mad: In my case, mad at myself.

For me it had the benefit of going back to HSS mills and sharpening up a bunch of them today, and it was smooth cutting after that.

Great progress on the boiler!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Side question for you Steve, what sort of setup do you have to sharpen your end mills? 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 12, 2023, 12:34:03 AM
Chris, it's uh...very redneck. A broken sander, with a spot welded carriage that I put together a few years ago. Not sure it's suitable for family viewing, certainly not on the same page with Kim's fine workmanship.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2023, 05:02:21 AM
Thanks Per ans Steve,  :cheers:

Steve, I'm sure you're sharpening setup would be fascinating and instructive to see!  I'm too scared to even try and sharpen an end mill... it just seems so intimidating!  So many facets and so much edge!  :o  I'm impressed that you do that yourself on ANY equipment!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 12, 2023, 01:47:40 PM
Okay, Kim, I don't want mill sharpening to seem intimidating, and it's very useful to be able to sharpen end mills if you don't have sophisticated tooling. However, remember, this is just a method to sharpen the ends, not the spiral flutes, so it's pretty simple -- but it really does make a difference for me without a dedicated tool grinder. I'll put a description in the Tooling and Machines section.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2023, 01:07:12 AM
Big progress today. At least I ‘think’ it’s big progress. Either that or I screwed things up so much that it’ll never work. Guess we’ll see, eh?

I started by clamping the rear firebox sheet to the RT with the center hole in my form aligned with the center of the RT.  That was easy to do since the hole is exposed by the firebox door opening (though that’s covered up by the aluminum scrap under the clamp, so you can’t see it).  Before milling anything I went around with the gauge pin to make sure that I would be able to clean up the edge a little bit all around the radius.  I didn’t want to find out after cutting off 10-20 thou of material in one place that another place was so low it never got touched.  This seemed like a good precaution (one I took for all my other radiuses too).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-00-DSC_1935.JPG)

Then I carefully cleaned up the radius to the specified size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-01-DSC_1938.jpg)


I’d left the straight edges a bit oversized so that I didn’t have to worry about making the radius line up with each edge.  So now I cleaned up the straight edges with a file so that the width of the edges matched the radius on both sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-02-DSC_1940.jpg)

The front firebox sheet was harder to align on the RT since the center hole in the form is NOT exposed.  So I lined up the center hole using the gauge pin and then super carefully held the form in place while dropping the copper part in place on the form.  I then used downward pressure from the quill and gauge pin to help hold things in place while I clamped it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-03-DSC_1944.jpg)

I did the same exercise with the gauge pin around the outside edge to make sure the part was really centered adequately.  Then milled the radius as before.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-04-DSC_1947.jpg)

After filing the edges to match the radius, I tapped the staybolt holes 10-32.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-05-DSC_1949.jpg)

Here’s my test assembly to make sure everything lined up as expected.  And it did! Yipee! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-06-DSC_1954.jpg)

And here’s the back side of the test assembly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-07-DSC_1957.jpg)

Just a quick aside:
Yesterday I said I thought those sharp tips on the throat sheet were really flat with the side, even though it didn’t look like it in the photos. And yes, they are!  Here’s a shot of one side lined up with a straight edge taken from directly overhead so as to have no parallax.  You can see it’s straight.  Though the opposite side now looks like it isn’t straight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-08-DSC_1959.jpg)

But when I lined that side up with the straightedge, it shows to be straight and the other side looks wonky.  That’s the beauty of close-up photos for you!  Lots of parallax error.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-09-DSC_1961.jpg)

OK, back to our regular update:

Now that the throat sheets are all trimmed up and threaded, I set up to silver solder the staybolts and firebox door ring in place.  I had carefully measured the staybolts to make sure I didn’t screw them in too tight. They each needed to stick out from the front by 7/16”. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-10-DSC_1962.jpg)

I was worried about how I was going to keep the firebox door ring lined up properly during soldering.  But I realized that it needed to stick out the front the exact same length as the staybolts.  So I soldered it with the part supported by the staybolts and the firebox door ring sat level on the same firebrick. This kept it at exactly the right height during soldering.  I’m sure that’s what Kozo had in mind but I felt pretty excited about figuring that out on my own :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-11-DSC_1964.jpg)

The soldering went fairly well – I got very good penetration on the firebox door ring and all the stay bolts. I did add a lot of solder while heating in addition to the rings I had around each feature to be soldered.  Unfortunately, I got a couple of the staybolts too hot and they mushroomed out on the ends. The one closest to the camera here is the worst.  I also got a big solder fillet in the joint along the connector for the firebox door ring. I’ll have to file that down otherwise it won’t fit far enough on the backhead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-12-DSC_1966.jpg)

Here’s a shot after my clean-up/filing work to get rid of that fillet on the firebox ring door connector and remove the mushrooming on the staybolts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-13-DSC_1978.jpg)

The other firebox sheet went well.  I was more careful NOT to overheat the staybolts this time.  I didn't get quite as good of penetration on the staybolts so ended up doing a second round of soldering from the other side on this one. But It came out great.

And here are all five of the formed sheets for the boiler that I started so many weeks ago.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-14-DSC_1972.jpg)

I am able to assemble them still, which is good!  Unfortunately, there’s a pretty good gap along a couple of the staybolts (I’m sure you can guess which ones).  I’m considering trying to wedge a little bit of brass shim in those gaps before I solder them together to help fill the gap.  It’s not huge, but it looks like more than I’m comfortable trying to bridge with a pile of silver solder.  So I’ll consider this still.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/185c-ThroatSheet-15-DSC_1976.jpg)

Anyway, that’s where I am.  I’m feeling ‘pretty’ good about it.  Those gaps are a little worrying, but I think I can deal with them.

Guess we’ll find out eventually, eh?
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 13, 2023, 01:30:42 AM
Lots of progress!


Istead of brass shim on the little gap, you could also hammer a scrap bit of cooper or copper wire flat and use that.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 13, 2023, 02:20:07 AM
Soldering plain round stays in a flat plate can be difficult at times. One trick I have used is to place a single wrap of small copper wire around the stay on the hidden side. (Or even the more visible side if the extra bump can be accepted.) Something like 26 or 28 gauge solid wire (bare, not tinned) usually meant for electronics.

The extra surface area and small spaces seems to suck the solder in.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2023, 04:59:40 AM
Lots of progress!


Istead of brass shim on the little gap, you could also hammer a scrap bit of cooper or copper wire flat and use that.
Yes! I thought about that later - I've got a lot of nice copper shavings laying about.  boring those holes made some excellent savings that I could use!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2023, 05:01:35 AM
Soldering plain round stays in a flat plate can be difficult at times. One trick I have used is to place a single wrap of small copper wire around the stay on the hidden side. (Or even the more visible side if the extra bump can be accepted.) Something like 26 or 28 gauge solid wire (bare, not tinned) usually meant for electronics.

The extra surface area and small spaces seems to suck the solder in.

Gene

Interesting idea, Gene!  I like this idea too.  I may do a little of both.

I always get such great suggestions from this group!  Thank you, Gene, Chris, and everyone!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 13, 2023, 11:35:11 PM
After spending some time on the lathe oil leak situation, and working on some other family to-do list items, I didn’t have a lot of shop time (or energy) left for my build.  But I wanted to make some progress… So here it is!

Chapter 23.9 – Rolling the Shell

The next part is the main boiler shell.

But before I did that, I spent a few minutes picking up copper shavings from around the mill.  These shavings might be used to fill a few little tiny gaps between parts as I silver solder. At least now I have the option!  And THIS, my friends, is one of the benefits of running a filthy shop!  All my copper swarf was still sitting around on the mill table, chip tray, and floor. See, if I vacuumed after every use, how would I have gotten this great tin of copper shavings?!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186a-RollingTheShell-1-DSC_1981.jpg)


The boiler shell will be made from the same 0.080” copper sheet as the formed sheets. So I used my saws-all to cut a chunk for the shell:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186a-RollingTheShell-2-DSC_1994.jpg)

I spent some time trying to even up the side on the sander, but it’s just too big and I wasn’t getting the straight square edge that I wanted.  So I’ll square it up on the mill.  However, that will involve removing the rotary table and the vise and that sounded like a lot of work.  I’ll do that tomorrow.

I find that if something seems daunting, like too much work, that’s a sign that I need to go in and come back to the shop when I’m feeling more refreshed and ready to tackle something.  That helps keeps it fun and helps me remember it’s not work!

So, not a lot of progress today, but I’ll get more done next time.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 14, 2023, 12:23:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Purty chips in the tin! Careful it doesn't get mixed in with anyone's pipe tobacco - they'd have an awful job gettin that lit!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 14, 2023, 05:05:10 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Purty chips in the tin! Careful it doesn't get mixed in with anyone's pipe tobacco - they'd have an awful job gettin that lit!  :Lol:
:ROFL:
Well, it's in an Altoids tin.  If they were going to try and light Altoids, maybe copper isn't that much more difficult?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on January 15, 2023, 02:15:53 PM
Excellent work on the boiler plates with some good rescues  :praise2:  :praise2: I hope the shell goes as well  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 17, 2023, 12:07:39 AM
Thanks Roger!


Now for a short aside…  Let’s talk about propane vs Oxy-Acetylene torches.

I’ve heard people (including Kozo and Blondihacks and many people here) say that propane torches are the way to go for silver soldering.  However, I have an Oxy-Acetylene torch and have been reluctant to spend another $400 on a Sievert.  Not to mention that it’s nearly impossible to figure out what Sievert torch you want/need for silver soldering.  Is one for burning weeds appropriate?  Or would I rather have one used for taring roofs?  I just don’t know.  And I’ve heard that not all tips work with all handles.  But it’s hard to tell which works with what, and what handle you really want/need.

So I’ve just ignored all of that and kept using my OA torch.  It’s worked (mostly) fine for me and I’m used to it.  Sure I melt a part here or there, but I’m getting better at NOT doing that.

But this week, I’ve run out of Acetylene.  It’s big $$ to get that tank filled.  And I just had it filled a year ago.  Sure, I’ve used it quite a bit, but it’s expensive to fill that tank. I believe it cost me over a hundred dollars the last time I filled it, and I’m sure it hasn’t gone down.

So now I’m back looking at propane again.  But none of the above problems have gotten any better. 

I was talking to the guy at Airgas about whether or not they sold propane torches. No, they don’t (at least not my local store) but he said I can use my OA torch for propane. I can even use the same regulator.  I did some online research too and the only thing I might need is a new hose. They’re supposed to be T grade for propane. Acetylene can use R or RM grade hoses.  Now, I wasn't sure what kind of hose I had, but the booklet that came with my torch lists propane pressures for various tips, right along with Acetylene.  I’d never noticed that before. So based on my research and on what it says in my booklet, I decided to give propane a try.  Wost case I'll have to replace the hose, and that's about $40 on Amazon.

So today, I went out and bought a tank of propane and hooked it up to my torch.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-1-DSC_2011.jpg)

I wanted to try silver soldering something so I found some pieces in my junk bin – an old copper tube from when I had my water heater replaced (about 3” long or so) and a bit of scrap brass that I’d bent in a circle to test out my slip rollers.  I cleaned them up and gave it a go. I stupidly forgot to take a before picture, but here’s an after shot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-2-DSC_2010.jpg)

It took longer than I’m used to, to get up to temp, but the flux went through the same states (of course) and the solder got a shiny, shimmery look to it before it flashed (which I've never noticed before).  The fit of the two parts wasn’t that good.  There were big gaps and such, so it was hard to tell how good the solder joint was.  I thought if I just cut through it I could better see how well the solder covered the joint, but that was a stupid idea.  I couldn’t get it to cut on the band saw, it would grab and stop the saw in its tracks.  That’s the rough looking goldish line on the right – the place where I tried to saw through the joint (and gave up).

I decided I needed to do another test. One that would be more like something I normally solder.  So I dug through the junk bin again and came up with a couple of brass rejects.  One was a ~1.5” length of 1” diameter brass with a 5/16” offset hole through it, and the other was a 1” chunk of 3/8” brass bar.  I turned one end of that bar to a nice sliding fit for the hole in the larger piece and went to solder them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-3-DSC_2013.jpg)

Here I’m set up for the soldering job.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-4-DSC_2016.jpg)

My thinking was that that was a hefty enough chunk to require a good amount of heat to get it up to temp, so would be a tolerable test of how well the propane does.

Well, it certainly took a long time to get it up to temp, that’s for sure!  I still have the oxygen setup with my torch so I used a little oxygen with the propane and that helped some, but it STILL took a long time.  Probably 5+ minutes of heating and one reapplication of flux (whether it was needed or not).  But I finally got the solder to flash.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-5-DSC_2020.jpg)

Cleaning it up, the joint looks pretty good.  Nice fillet all around the outside edge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186b-RollingTheShell-6-DSC_2022.jpg)


Using propane is a WHOLE different ballgame than OA.  The flame is a lot more wild than I’m used to.  Less, intense, for sure, but still – The flame doesn’t even start till 2-3” out past the tip of the torch.  And the flames dance around for about a foot beyond that!  That’s WAY different than what I’m used to.

I didn’t have to move the flame around as much, which I guess is nice.  And the flames licked around the part in a whole different way.

But I wasn’t sure I was going to get the solder to flash. I was starting to give up when I saw it go into the shiny phase.  That’s something I’ve never noticed with OA.  I think it heats up so fast that I have never noticed that state before.

It sure is a whole new way to silver solder.  It will take me some getting used to, that’s for sure.

BTW, I was using a #4 rosebud for all of this.  I have a #6 rosebud that I could use too, which would produce more heat.  When I'm using Acetylene I've almost always used a #1 welding tip for most things unless they are really small and I've got a #0 and even a #000 tip that I've used.  The only time I used the rosebud was for the copper boiler on my steam tractor.  But the Rosebuds scare me because they use so much Acytelene - and you're not supposed to draw more than 1/7 of the volume of Acyleten per hour and some people even say not to exceed 1/10.  I've got a 55CF tank, so in theory, I can only source 5.5CFM.  A #4 rosebud takes 6-20CFM.  So maybe if you go with the 1/7 rule I could do it, but a #6 rosebud starts at 14CFM and goes up!  Yet another reason to switch to Propane.

If any of you have any suggestions about how to better make the switch to propane, do let me know!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 17, 2023, 12:28:40 AM
Hi Kim

This is what I have, although I have not used it much when I have it has worked pretty well for me. There are also a pretty good selection of tips available for it.
https://store.cyberweld.com/turbotorch-lp-2-torch-kit-0386-0007.html?msclkid=b680db1b1c1f18ac20f2b8def6c1b067


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 17, 2023, 12:34:57 AM
Thanks for the link, Dave.

Apparently, the turbo/swirl thing is to get a good burn. Do you think having an oxygen tank will make for a similarly good burn using a standard torch handle? Which is what I'm currently trying.  I was hoping to avoid spending more $$ on it. But if that's what it takes...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 17, 2023, 12:44:37 AM
This is the torch I use and the vendor I bought it from:
https://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=20753

It's probably too small for the larger jobs you are facing though. I think the biggest jobs I've done are a 1.5" diameter copper boiler and the steel crankshaft for the 2-Bits v-twin. I do find that surrounding the work as much as possible with firebricks goes a long way as far as retaining heat and speeding things up, and is essential for jobs like that crankshaft.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 17, 2023, 12:50:23 AM
Hi Kim. I've been using oxy-propane for a number of years now. The hose isn't the only different requirement, the tips are different, too.

You mention that the flame is spaced out from the tip. That's a sign that your tip is probably meant for acetylene, not propane. So is difficulty in maintaining a flame that doesn't blow out. Propane tips generally have a recess which acts like a flame holder. Oxy-propane cutting tips are two piece, with one piece recessed in the other. Propane has a much lower flame speed, so bringing up pressure tends to blow the flame off of the tip (if it's the wrong type of tip).

Another difference in the flame itself is where the maximum temperature is. With acetylene it's where the light blue cones end. In most propane torch flames the hottest zone is further out.

Also oxy-acetylene is very tolerant of mixture range, but propane is more difficult to create a neutral flame. One way to check is to play it on copper and see if the copper turns bright or dull/oxidized as you adjust oxygen in the flame.

You might need a bigger tip size for propane to get the same heating rate as you are used to with acetylene. But of course the savings in gas cost is tremendous, so more gas usage isn't a problem. Also you aren't limited to the danger zone 15 PSI limit of acetylene (usually marked on your acetylene regulator) propane can be run at higher pressure.

Hope this helps some...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 17, 2023, 12:50:36 AM
Hi Kim

Well I guess it is a an apples to oranges thing, I know guys that have used propane/O2 on their O2/acetylene rig just because it is a cheaper fuel but a little cooler. The link I sent is a propane/air fueled torch so a completely different animal, but more suited to soldering. This is like the Sievert type of torch but not as fancy. The way I see it is that you need lots of BTUs but not the intense heat of an 02 fueled flame.
Probably didn't answer your question, silver soldering this type of assembly is something I don't have any experience with.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 17, 2023, 01:28:57 AM
Yes I think there's a difference between brazing a large copper assembly like a boiler and brazing smaller components together. I think oxy-propane works well for smaller stuff, but probably for a full boiler assembly (depending on size) a LOT of heat is needed rather than pinpoint heat. I remember seeing a video someplace with three gentlemen all focusing big possibly atmospheric(?) propane torches on the same boiler, and for a very long time. Huge amount of heat, there.

I've never done a copper boiler either, but have done a lot of smaller part brazing -- usually with brass braze, sometimes silver. And much cutting of steel with oxy-propane.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 17, 2023, 01:46:30 AM
When I did my kozo new shay boiler, I started with the smaller propane and mapp torches, quickly learned that a big copper boiler eats way more heat than they could put out. Went for the big Sievert handle with interchangeable tips, which I like since it can be set up for different size parts, from valves to whole boilers. Along the way I got that big one with the monster flame, worked great for the boiler though I didn't realize that one had a fixed tip, and then got the interchangeable tip handle with an assortment of nozzles. I think they have changed model numbers since then, that was 10 years ago. One nice thing about the propane is its same tank as gas grills, can refill pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 17, 2023, 01:57:25 AM
I have 5 Sievert burners, from pin-point to weed-burner, and I use them all at one time or another. Couple of handles, several tubes, regulator, etc. I think I got most of this stuff from Best Materials (mentioned above). Got these over some time, and I do not know the total cost. I am sure it would be lot more today.

For a nearly complete boiler the weed-burner (2944) is very useful although the next size down (2943) can work if everything is nicely packed in insulating fire bricks.

The weed-burner is scary, and an ordinary 20 pound propane tank gets pretty cold in a hurry.  :o

It is quite important to get the temperature up to the solder melting range in a few minutes. Otherwise the flux gets old, even the black flux. That rapid heating takes a large burner.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 17, 2023, 02:30:43 AM
I have 5 Sievert burners, from pin-point to weed-burner, and I use them all at one time or another. Couple of handles, several tubes, regulator, etc. I think I got most of this stuff from Best Materials (mentioned above). Got these over some time, and I do not know the total cost. I am sure it would be lot more today.

For a nearly complete boiler the weed-burner (2944) is very useful although the next size down (2943) can work if everything is nicely packed in insulating fire bricks.

The weed-burner is scary, and an ordinary 20 pound propane tank gets pretty cold in a hurry.  :o

It is quite important to get the temperature up to the solder melting range in a few minutes. Otherwise the flux gets old, even the black flux. That rapid heating takes a large burner.

Gene
Great summary!  +1 on everything Gene said - the big mass of copper really sucks away the heat fast! I also got my Sievert parts at Best Materials, not many places carried them in this country at the time, not sure if there are other sources here now. I think there were several sources in England that would ship here who had them, like Reeves, don't know who carries what now.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 17, 2023, 03:27:50 AM
I bought my Sievert torch (the glorified weed burner) last year from Zoro.com.  With a 20% discount and free shipping they are by far the cheapest source in the USA that I was able to find.

It seems that Sievert tries their best to make what nozzle works with what handle as difficult to understand as possible, but with mine I am able to change heads by simply unscrewing and swapping.  I wasn't sure that this would work until I literally ordered the burner and tried it.  I can get the numbers if anyone is interested and I'm pretty sure this is the burner that Quinn is using.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 17, 2023, 05:31:00 AM
Wow!  Lot's of good info from everyone here!  Thank you so much!

Yes, I'd be VERY interested in part numbers!  I'm just trying to sort through this mess and it seems that I'll need to purchase something - at least new tips for my OA torch if I go that route, but I it kind-a feels like I just need to bite the bullet and get a propane-air torch.  It sure seems like the way to go.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 17, 2023, 01:42:06 PM
I'll dig out the torch and get the numbers next time I'm down in the shop, hopefully this afternoon.

In the meantime, I found this chart indispensable for puzzling-out Sievert's handle-burner parings:

https://sievert.se/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Sievert-Combination-Chart_ENG.pdf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 17, 2023, 02:04:17 PM
The handle I have is the Pro-88 model. A set of nozzles too. It looks like they have changed the numbering slightly since I got mine, they have added some more numbers on the end. The ones are have are marked:Looks like now they have changed the 'p' on the end to be '01' or '02'.  That chart that Krypto posted is great, shows what nozzle works with whatt handle. For boilers, I start with the 2942 for the subassemblies, and move to the 2944 for the final assembly with the most copper there drawing off the most heat. I also have their regulator that screws into the 20 pound propane tank - you don't want to take the full pressure from the tank!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 17, 2023, 04:45:29 PM
Kim I been using propane and oxy for years and they don’t produce the heat as with acetylene. The tips of the torch do have to be for propane use. I haven’t moved my torch here yet since I have moved, so can’t give you any specs. For your boiler I don’t think you will have trouble soldering it the size if it isn’t that large an object to heat, although it will take some time to absorb the heat. When your flux turns shiny it’s hot enough and ready for solder. You can either concentrate heat at points or heat the overall vessel, it will depend on the tip and size flame you get. You will need a large flame to product an overall heat to move through the vessel. But a large flame is less concentrated heat and slower to heat it. My two cents…

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 17, 2023, 06:22:52 PM
Well, looks like I'll be ordering a new Sievert from BestMaterials.com soon.  :???:

Thanks for the part numbers Chris, and the excellent chart Krypto.  And ALL the comments from everyone. They have all been very helpful in bringing me to a final decision that I feel good about.

While I hadn't originally intended this, it just seems like the right thing to do - get a new tool, right?  Isn't that always the best course of action?  :embarassed:

I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!  ^-^

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 17, 2023, 08:04:14 PM
My wife knows what "mission critical" means when the tools I have won't get the job at hand done.  :cartwheel:

Sometimes she even approves the tool purchase and releases the funds!  :embarassed:  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 17, 2023, 11:02:05 PM
Ok, here's the exact Sievert parts that I have via links from the retailer I bought it.

https://www.zoro.com/sievert-torch-kit-tr-kit-propane-fuel-ds2944/i/G0312965/
https://www.zoro.com/sievert-standard-burner-88000-btu-2942-02/i/G0503601/

With this kit, Best Materials says the burner is not removable but that's completely wrong, it's the neck tube that's permanently affixed to the body.  The burner heads just screw on and off the neck.  This was confusing for me.

The 2944 head comes with the kit and I bought the 2942 head separately.  I'll post pictures later.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 17, 2023, 11:05:20 PM
Ok, here's the exact Sievert parts that I have via links from the retailer I bought it.

https://www.zoro.com/sievert-torch-kit-tr-kit-propane-fuel-ds2944/i/G0312965/ (https://www.zoro.com/sievert-torch-kit-tr-kit-propane-fuel-ds2944/i/G0312965/)
https://www.zoro.com/sievert-standard-burner-88000-btu-2942-02/i/G0503601/ (https://www.zoro.com/sievert-standard-burner-88000-btu-2942-02/i/G0503601/)

With this kit, Best Materials says the burner is not removable but that's completely wrong, it's the neck tube that's permanently affixed to the body.  The burner heads just screw on and off the neck.  This was confusing for me.

The 2944 head comes with the kit and I bought the 2942 head separately.  I'll post pictures later.
Those are good prices!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 18, 2023, 12:28:22 AM
Ok, check out the pics.

The box of the DS2944 kit

Regulator, hose and both torch heads (2944 & 2942).  You can see they just screw on the end and the neck is permanently attached to the handle.

The 2942 head has an additional orifice to restrict gas flow.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2023, 12:34:31 AM
For those who have not used one, that pro88 handle has two knobs and a lever. One knob sets the flow for pilot light mode, other for full flow. The lever takes it from pilot to full mode. Very nice for the larger nozzles. For the small nozzles there is little difference since they use a lot less propane.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 18, 2023, 12:38:02 AM
Yup! 

I'm glad to see that you used the big 2944 burner (I call it the Saturn V) and the 2942 for boiler work since that's what I've got.  I think I figured that the smallest burner was just about the same BTU-wise as a plumbers torch so I didn't bother with that one.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 18, 2023, 12:40:28 AM
That Zoro price for the "kit" must be a mistake. List price is nearly $600, while the Zoro price is $150.

Buy it quickly!

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 18, 2023, 12:45:29 AM
Well, it looks like I paid ~$160 last year for mine, so today's price is a good one.  Sorry, but $600 is just nuts for a fancy weed burner.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 18, 2023, 12:46:29 AM
Wow!  That's an excellent price!  Too bad I already ordered from Best Materials (but clearly not best prices). I'll have to see if I can cancel and re-order from Zoro.  If not, I guess that's life, eh?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2023, 01:07:03 AM
If you can't cancel, buy the one from Zorro and sell it on ebay at higher price to make some of the difference back!   :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 18, 2023, 01:09:20 AM
(Please don't let this stop the propane torch discussion - I just have a short update on the boiler build.)

I’d left off after cutting the chunk of 0.080” copper sheet to approximate size with my saws-all.  Not an instrument of high accuracy to be sure.  So I wanted to square up the sides.  I’m mostly interested in the edges that will be rolled together and soldered to be parallel and straight since I'll be cleaning up the ends after rolling.  But I think it will help me out during the rolling process if the sides that will become the ends of the cylinder are straight and square with the other edges too.

So, to the mill.  As I said before, the only way I could come up with to mill the edges of this copper sheet was to remove the vice and RT and use the mill table directly.  So that’s what I did.

And I used the best of the ‘factory’ edges to indicate on.  The new edge I’m trimming will be square to this one now.  I actually tapped the sheet into square before placing the clamp right next to the indicator.  This is me just checking a short part of the side to make sure tightening the clamp didn’t screw anything up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-01-DSC_1998.jpg)

Then I cleaned up this edge.  It took me about 25 thou to get the edge flat and square with the reference side (on the right in this picture.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-02-DSC_2001.jpg)

Then I flipped the Cu sheet around to do the other side.  I wanted to be sure and indicate using the SAME edge as I did before.  And now THAT edge is on the left, so I’m using the left side to set up for this trimming op.  I considered making this edge parallel to the side I just trimmed, but I couldn’t reach the backside.  It was very close to the mill column.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-03-DSC_2032.jpg)

Here’s where Mr. Murphy stepped in and said “You’re starting to make progress, we must put a stop to this!”  So, while I was indicating it in, I ended up running the delicate little indicator arm into one of the pieces of aluminum bars that I’m using for parallels.  Guess I had the indicator positioned just a smidge too low :(

Thanks to that fancy maneuver, the DTI stopped indicating.  The indicator arm flopped around and the dial didn't move.  And so, being the resourceful guy that I am, I decided to open it up and see if I can repair it.  With it open, I could see that the little black plastic hook like thing (lower left) wasn't moving the longer brass lever arm.  I tried several things to get it to work.  I could get it to work for a minute, but by the time I would get the top holder piece on, the arm would just be flopping meaninglessly again. I had several ideas and tried lots of things, but in the end, it’s still just a broken indicator.  I think the top of that black hook gizmo had broken off or something.  Seems a rather silly feeble piece to put in for such an instrument.  The rest of it is brass or stainless.  Wonder why that part is plastic?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-04-DSC_2025.JPG)

Regardless, it was a fascinating rabbit hole, even if I didn’t find any cheese there (I’m mixing metaphors, aren’t I?  :Lol:).  But it sunk a lot of time. :(  It wasn’t a very expensive indicator anyway - one of those budget DTIs.

Luckily, I had another (budget) DTI that I could use, so I used that one to clock in the part and clean up this side.  There was a lot more that needed to come off here. This was the saw cut that I made and it had a pretty good ramp across it.  Took a little over 0.1” to get this end in shape.  But I’ve got plenty of room to clean up the ends after rolling still, so I’m happy with that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-07-DSC_2037.jpg)

With the long sides prettied up, it was time to cut the sheet to length.  My plan is to use this little piece here for the connecting strip that I’ll use to solder the boiler shell together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-08-DSC_2039.jpg)

Now, for the short sides. These are the ends that will be silver soldered together to form the boiler shell.  I need to put a 5o angle on these edges so that they’ll meet together better after rolling.  I initially considered just milling these square, like I did the other two sides, then filing or sanding a small bevel.  But I thought it would be neat if I could find a way to mill the small angle into them while I was milling to length.

So, I came up with this setup.  I measured the distance between the T-slots and calculated the difference in height to get 5o, which nicely came out almost exactly 3/8”.   Then I positioned the aluminum parallels on the T-slots so they could sit at a bit of an angle as you see in the picture. This isn’t the most stable of setups, but it will likely be OK for s light skimming operation that I’ll be doing here.  At least, that's one line of thinking...
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-09-DSC_2043.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186c-RollingTheShell-10-DSC_2047.jpg)

Or maybe it’s just a bad idea all around and I should go back to my original thought of just filing the bevel on the edge?

I’ll think about it for a few days.  I’ve got other domestic activities tomorrow that will be keeping me out of the shop, so I’ve got some time to think. And to get expert advice from all my online friends :)

Thanks for looking in and for your helpful comments!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2023, 01:15:33 AM
Nice cleanup work (and a fun rabbit hole).  Only thing I would suggest on future thin sheet milling (copper or anything) is to sandwich it between two pieces of wood, or bar stock if the right size is handy. That spreads the force from the clamps, and keeps it from lifting an edge of the thin sheet and bending the whole thing up if the cutter catches. I to the same thing when drilling - wood both sides and drill through, keeps the sheet dead flat with no pucker factor on you OR the metal. On very thin sheet, its the only way to do it, this stuff is thick enough to handle it but still a little risky. Just a thought!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 18, 2023, 01:19:29 AM
Interesting suggestion, Chris!  Might help my angled setup here too... Hmm....  :thinking:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 18, 2023, 11:01:54 PM
Well, I was able to cancel the order from Best Materials. So I placed a new one with Zoro to get the better price. But I did an order from Best Materials for a few of the burners.

Looks like it won't arrive till next week, so I'll have to bide my time.  I've still got a lot to do, so I doubt it will hold me back much.

But the price sure made it worth it.  Not only was the base unit $200 cheaper, Zoro has free shipping on orders over $50.  The shipping from Best Materials cost almost $50! So waiting an extra few days for delivery still seems worth it to me.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2023, 11:37:40 PM
Thats a great price, well worth the wait. The regulator alone usually goes for as much as that whole kit.


Could always make a few parts from the next section... Not that we (the audience) gets impatient!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael summers on January 18, 2023, 11:43:29 PM
Im new to group, retirement project Feb 2023 I'll start on this Build also.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2023, 04:41:23 AM
Hey Michael!
Welcome to the forum!  You should post a quick intro in the "introduce yourself" section so that you can get a proper welcome from everyone.

I'll look forward to seeing your build here too! :)  That would be great to have several of us working on this build at the same time.  This is an extremely fun, rewarding, and challenging, build!  I think you'll enjoy it!  I know I sure have.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on January 20, 2023, 03:45:06 PM
I wonder if getting an acetylene refill wouldn't have been the way to go after all.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2023, 07:01:00 PM
Quite possibly.  I gave it serious consideration for sure.  And I will likely get a refill on the Acetylene eventually anyway.  But now I'll have BOTH a propane torch and an Oxy-Acetylene torch :)  And I'll use a LOT less acetylene.  The propane is much cheaper, so that will be nice.  Only a couple of refills and the propane torch will have paid for itself!  :lolb:

The thing that finally pushed me over the edge on it was how I melted the ends of those staybolts :(  I think I can survive it, but I've just done that too often.  I thought I was past melting things by now, but clearly not.

Guess we'll see if it was a good investment or not.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2023, 11:32:17 PM
I came up with a MUCH better method for holding the copper sheet at a 5o angle.  Chris’s suggestion about sandwiching the sheet between two pieces of wood gave me the idea.  I took a ~1” wide length of my never-ending supply of maple and cut a piece in half with the arbor tilted to 5o.  Now I can use that to hold the sheet and it will give me a much more stable place to clamp.  It’s the chunks on the left there. See how the kerf between them is at an angle?  Pretty cool, eh? (And far from original, I’m sure.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-1-DSC_2054.jpg)

Here it is in the setup.  The only issue I had here was that indicating it in was a little harder since I had to move the indicator not only in the Y axis to sweep the side of the piece, I had to move it up and down in Z too since the copper is in there at an angle.  I stuck a couple of 1/2" parallels in one of the table slots to help hold the lower wood angle block in the right place.  And I helped support the back of the piece by wedging in another parallel along the far end of the table. While probably not necessary, it did make me feel better not to see the cooper sheet sagging under its own weight hanging out there in the breeze.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-2-DSC_2057.jpg)

I considered adding some alignment holes & pins on the ends of the wood angle blocks to keep them aligned, but I didn’t really have any problem with them slipping like I thought I might.  So, I just used them like that and it worked great.

Here I’ve just completed evening up one edge of the sheet with the angle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-3-DSC_2059.jpg)

With the angled edge, the part now has a defined inside and outside.  The ‘shorter’ side has to go inside.  But the angle is so slight it’s hard to see unless you hold a square up to it.  So I labeled the sides (took the protective plastic off first) to help me keep it straight.

And here I’ve just completed the other end.  You can see why I had to set it up where I was milling the back side.  The sheet would hit the column if I tried it the other way.  Sure, I could have moved the ram head on the mill out and that would have solved the issue.  But I didn’t want to have to re-tram the mill.  Plus, I’d need to put it back after this op and that would be yet another tram!  So, while slightly less convenient, this was a great solution for me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-4-DSC_2062.jpg)

With the main shell sheet done, I went to cleaning up the shell connector.  This is how I held the long skinny piece while miling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-5-DSC_2066.jpg)

With that done, here are the two pieces of the shell.  Note the connector is about 3/16” shorter than the shell.  That’s important or I wouldn’t be able to fit the front tube sheet in the end of it!  Also, notice the shell is divided into quarters.  These layout lines are for lining up all the holes that I’ll need to drill in the boiler shell eventually.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-6-DSC_2069.jpg)

Now, it’s time to roll the boiler shell!  I got my little slip rollers out and clamped it up in my vise (alas, the slip roller has no permanent home in my shop. :()
 Luckly, before I started rolling, I remembered how hard half-hard sheet is -  it’s really hard!  So I’m going to wait till my new propane torch arrives next week so I can anneal it before rolling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186d-RollingTheShell-7-DSC_2075.jpg)

Next, I’ll make some of the bushings and such that will be required for the boiler shell.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 20, 2023, 11:38:52 PM
Excellent! That brown 'wood' stuff does come in handy!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 21, 2023, 12:46:42 AM
Great idea using the wood to make a fixture, Kim. Is that oil- or water-hardening Maple? ;)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 21, 2023, 02:12:22 AM
Rock maple......rocks!  Slip rolling should be fun.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2023, 05:26:51 AM
Great idea using the wood to make a fixture, Kim. Is that oil- or water-hardening Maple? ;)

I'm pretty sure it is W1 maple.  But when I went to harden it, it turned really black and ashy.  I had to use some pretty aggressive abrasive cleaning to get that layer of soot off.  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: propforward on January 21, 2023, 12:24:05 PM
Fascinating build as always Kim. I am especially impressed with the flanging techniques for some of the copper pieces. Watching this build with a lot of interest.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2023, 05:53:08 PM
Thanks Stuart!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 23, 2023, 11:34:29 PM
Well, over the weekend my new (somewhat less expensive) Sievert torch arrived!  I ordered a few various-sized tips for it but those won’t arrive for a couple of days.  The one this setup came with is the big kahuna!  But I can use this to anneal the copper sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186e-RollingTheShell-5-DSC_2096.jpg)

Thanks for the help in identifying what part numbers I needed and how to get it for less $$.  I think I’m pleased.  8)  At least it shoots a big scary flame out the end!  And it seemed to anneal the copper well enough!

After annealing, I went to the slip roller and started to form the boiler shell.  This 0.080” sheet is JUST on the harry edge of not working in my dinky slip rolls.  I was having some problems getting the teeth on the slip roller gears to engage.  But when I got it adjusted right for this thickness, it worked – but just barely.  Any thicker and I wouldn’t have been using these slip rolls - not because of the hardness of the material, but because the gears on the feed rollers wouldn't engage with each other!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186e-RollingTheShell-1-DSC_2083.jpg)

I worked very hard to keep the sheet square with the rolls.  I even swapped it end for end on alternate passes (I made a LOT of passes).  But as you can see, the ends didn’t quite line up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186e-RollingTheShell-2-DSC_2085.jpg)

So I worked at it some more – trying to tighten one side a bit and leave the other side alone.  I was never sure which side needed to be tighter to fix my issue.  But eventually, I got the ends to align more closely.  There’s still a bit of offset, but it’s a LOT better.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186e-RollingTheShell-3-DSC_2089.jpg)

My joint was pretty close, but I decided to go ahead and wire it closed as Kozo shows.  I think it was a good idea since I could sinch up the wires and get that gap really tight.  It even helped the end alignment a bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186e-RollingTheShell-4-DSC_2092.jpg)

The next step will be to attach the joining strip with rivets.  But that will be tomorrow.  Not a lot of progress today, but some!  And if I keep making SOME progress, eventually I’ll get there, right? :)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 23, 2023, 11:44:37 PM
Excellent!  New tool, AND it works!   :whoohoo:

Did you have to re-anneal during the rolling process?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 23, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Good job of rolling with limited equipment Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 23, 2023, 11:53:01 PM
Thanks Steve and Chris!

Did you have to re-anneal during the rolling process?
Well, I didn't re-anneal.  It seemed to keep taking the bend pretty well. It isn't a real tight bend, so I wasn't sure if I'd need to or not, but it didn't seem to need it.  When I bent the ring for the fire door, that piece also didn't require any additional annealing steps and it was a much tighter circle, so I guess that kinda makes sense.

Hopefully, that was OK :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 23, 2023, 11:56:06 PM
Thanks Steve and Chris!

Did you have to re-anneal during the rolling process?
Well, I didn't re-anneal.  It seemed to keep taking the bend pretty well. It isn't a real tight bend, so I wasn't sure if I'd need to or not, but it didn't seem to need it.  When I bent the ring for the fire door, that piece also didn't require any additional annealing steps and it was a much tighter circle, so I guess that kinda makes sense.

Hopefully, that was OK :)

Kim
If it didn't crack, it was okay!  Sounds right, the constant bend is a lot more gentle than a right angle bend like I was thinking of.  Having the slip roll sure made it a lot easier than bending it around a pipe by hand (I know that one for sure!)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 24, 2023, 12:31:08 AM
Glad to see everything worked out with the torch, now you can roast your marshmallows with style.  I also have one of those Harbor Freight TV trays for the hot work.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 24, 2023, 01:19:48 AM
Nice job on the rolling Kim! re the new torch set - it never hurts to throw an enormous scary flame at the start of a job. Sets the tone for onlookers !   :o :o :o :o  :Lol:

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2023, 05:16:25 AM
Thanks Krypto and CNR,

Yeah, it didn't crack and it kept bending, Chris, so I think I was OK :)

That Harbor Freight TV Tray (I like that description!) has worked well for me for several years!  Not the most robust thing, but it's pretty good.  I'd love a big welding table, but I don't do that much welding and I don't have that much room.  So this suffices :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: petertha on January 25, 2023, 07:01:12 AM
Well, over the weekend my new (somewhat less expensive) Sievert torch arrived!  I ordered a few various-sized tips for it but those won’t arrive for a couple of days.  The one this setup came with is the big kahuna!  But I can use this to anneal the copper sheet.

I've learned more about Sievert on this thread than their catalogs & random product videos, LOL!

I see you opted for the lever style. My understanding from a prior post is you light it, it maintains a pilot flame, then squeezing leaver cranks out flame heat. I'm wondering if the handle is intended to kind of throttle, like half squeeze = half flame control? Or is it more pilot/full-on type action more intended for initial light up practicality? I can see the lever being useful for big heat annealing type work, but would it have the same functionality with small heads / detail work? I guess I'm asking if I was 90% silver soldering, would I op for the non-lever Pro-86?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
The lever is pretty much an on/off for the main heat. It doesn't do much for the smaller nozzles, since they restrict the flow anyway with the smaller orifice in their bases. The larger nozzles are not just for annealing - when silver soldering larger/thicker parts, the larger nozzles are needed to deliver enough heat quick enough to keep from depleting the flux as the metal wicks away so much heat. For full boiler soldering, the largest two nozzles are the only way to go. For smaller blocks, I usually use one of the middle ones, the smallest nozzles only for small parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2023, 03:20:52 PM
As Chris said, the lever is on/off.  But it is not hard to hold the lever down.  It is easy to keep the lever in the on position just by gripping the handle, so it isn't really difficult to maintain for long intervals.  At least, with my limited use so far it doesn't seem to be a problem.  But it is nice to be able to drop the dragon flame quickly if you want to remove the heat for a moment to look at something, which is REALLY nice.

The little knob controls the fuel to the pilot, and the bigger knob adjusts the fuel to the big heating flame.  So you can throttle the size of the flame that way. And they are quite nice little control knobs. They work well and have a nice even feel to them.

All in all, a very quality purchase!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mcgyver on January 25, 2023, 03:25:22 PM
another great thread I was oblivious to....thanks for posting so much great content.  I sense a boiler build in my future so will be watching more carefully!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on January 25, 2023, 09:44:52 PM
Hi

Sorry for being a little late on the Sievert torch discussion but my experience may help.

At one of the model engineering shows we spoke to the guys at the Sievert stand and bought a torch kit from them. Back home keen to try my new torch I connected it to the propane bottle and lit it. To be honest I was a little disappointed, it didn't seem to be much better. It was a few weeks later when the need to do some silver soldering arose that I changed the regulator for the one supplied with the Sievert kit. An amazing difference. It was clearly hotter than the cheapo torch I had been using. I haven't gone into the technicalities but I imagine the regulator and torch are a balanced pair and I think the regulator allows a greater flow of gas.

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 25, 2023, 10:23:28 PM
Hi

Sorry for being a little late on the Sievert torch discussion but my experience may help.

At one of the model engineering shows we spoke to the guys at the Sievert stand and bought a torch kit from them. Back home keen to try my new torch I connected it to the propane bottle and lit it. To be honest I was a little disappointed, it didn't seem to be much better. It was a few weeks later when the need to do some silver soldering arose that I changed the regulator for the one supplied with the Sievert kit. An amazing difference. It was clearly hotter than the cheapo torch I had been using. I haven't gone into the technicalities but I imagine the regulator and torch are a balanced pair and I think the regulator allows a greater flow of gas.

Cheers

Rich
Good info!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 26, 2023, 04:24:57 AM
As Chris said, the lever is on/off.

Interesting.

I play the lever almost every time I use the larger torches. I don't want to hit the still damp flux with 300,000 BTUs, but more than a pilot flame is needed. After a minute or less it is generally full throttle.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2023, 12:46:31 AM
Interesting. So Gene, what you're saying is that the lever is actually more of a throttle and not just on/off?  I'll have to see if I can make it do anything between on or off!  The knob sure makes a difference though!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2023, 12:58:28 AM
With the shell rolled, I now need to attach the joining strip to the inside of the shell using rivets.  And to do that, I need to drill a bunch of rivet holes.

But looking at the shell, there’s quite a gap along the seam.  It’s about 0.016” (1/64”) wide.  That’s way too big.  I think what happened here is that I didn’t have my rollers set to the same depth on both sides.  So one side got squeezed more than the other.  And since I kept swapping ends, that meant both sides got squeezed more than the middle!  Not sure how to set the exact thickness on the rollers. I’m going to have to learn that.  Does anyone have a good technique for this?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-01-DSC_2097.jpg)

To attempt to rectify this problem, I used some blocks to help hold the shell open and carefully filed the edges to try and get less of a gap in the middle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-02-DSC_2102.jpg)

After working at that for a while, I decided I was close enough and closed the shell up again.  Not perfect, but a lot closer!  I was worried about 1) filing too much and making the problem worse, and 2) decreasing the diameter of the boiler shell too much.  As it turns out, I probably could have (should have?) filled a few thou more.  But this is where I stopped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-03-DSC_2103.jpg)

Next, I clamped the joining strap to the inside of the shell, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-04-DSC_2107.jpg)

And set it up on the mill to drill the rivet holes. I used a machinists jack inside the shell to help hold the strap in place while drilling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-05-DSC_2112.jpg)

Then proceeded to drill a pair of rivet holes.  Note I also used a clamp across the boiler shell to help hold the edges together (in addition to the twisted wires).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-06-DSC_2117.jpg)

As I drilled rivet hole pairs, I would fasten them with a 3-48 screw and nut.  The heads of the screws were too big to fit next to each other so I put one in one way, and one in the other (as you can see in this picture).  Using these screws (in theory) helped hold things in alignment as I drilled the next set of rivet holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-07-DSC_2121.jpg)

And here’s the completed boiler shell and strap with the rivets I’ll be using.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/186f_RollingTheShell-08-DSC_2125.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2023, 01:13:29 AM
Chapter 23.10 – Silver Soldering the Shell

Now I’m all ready for the silver soldering operation!

I cleaned the joints and pickled the parts for a bit.  I don’t usually pickle my parts before soldering, but there were parts of these joints I couldn’t really access to mechanically clean them (which is what I normally do).

After cleaning, I fluxed up the area between the joint and the shell, then, one at a time, I fluxed up a rivet and staked it in place.  I did all four rivets on one side, then I started on the other side which involved joining the sides together.  Though not shown in this picture, I had replaced the wire around the boiler shell for this operation to help hold things in position.  Here’s what it looked like with all rivets in place, and some flux on it (I did add more!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-01-DSC_2128.jpg)

And from the inside:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-02-DSC_2133.jpg)

Then to the hearth to solder it up. Based on Chris's recommendation above,  I used the  2942 burner (32mm).  I tell you, I DO like this Sievert! :Love:  It throws a LOT of heat, but it’s a lot softer and less pointy than the OA torch.  So much more forgiving.  It seems that you get to temperature a little more slowly, but with less concern of overshooting the temp to the point of melting the parts you're trying to solder.  BTW, I used medium grade silver solder for this joint too.  I’m trying to stick with medium for most of the subassemblies.

First I flowed a bunch of solder from the inside, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-03-DSC_2140.jpg)

Then I flipped it over and did some from the outside.  I did this all in one heating.  I used a pair of channel locks to move the shell around – it was still SUPER hot! But I dobbed some more flux and set some solder on it and it seemed to work pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-04-DSC_2135.jpg)

After a while in the pickle and a little scrubbing, I looked it over. Mostly, it looked pretty good, but there was one area that concerned me.  You can see it here – a bit of a gap here.  And no solder fillet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-05-DSC_2144.jpg)

So I did another round of soldering along that end, from the inside.  Tried to position plenty of solder there around that gap.  Just as an aside, I’m finding that I can’t feed in extra solder when using the sievert torch.  Or maybe it’s when doing this big part, I’m not sure.  The whole area is just SO hot I can’t get my hand close enough to poke the solder there. And even when I do, it doesn’t seem to melt like it did with the OA torch.  So having the solder sitting there, in place, seemed important for this op, at least.

So, after the second round of soldering, the joint looks much better.   There’s still not the nice fillet that I’d like to see on the inside, but the outside looks very good (it’s along the right side in this picture).  The very ends of the seam are still a bit open, but those will be soldered again and have something behind them (the front tube sheet on one end, and the throat sheet on the other side).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-06-DSC_2146.jpg)

Lastly, I filed off the outside nubbins of the rivets.  Probably still need to do a little cleanup here, but there’ll be time for that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187a-SilverSolderingTheShell-07-DSC_2151.jpg)

All in all, I’m pretty pleased with how the shell is coming along.

Thanks for checking in on my progress,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 27, 2023, 01:30:56 AM
Terrific!!  Great progress and practice for the firebox.


For moving solder around while hot a long pointy piece of steel rod is handy, as are a long pair of tweezers. Sometimes I'll dab on a little extra flux too with the pointy rod. If its burned out the first flux it doesn't work often to add more, needs another session.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 27, 2023, 01:53:16 AM
That's a major step accomplished!  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on January 27, 2023, 02:24:43 AM
Great outcome Kim,
Very well done, :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 27, 2023, 02:26:45 AM
Super progress, Kim, and collectively a great tutorial on boiler making and silver soldering. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 27, 2023, 03:43:40 AM
I have not kept up with the forum today, so several comments in one.

Yes, I use the Sievert lever as a control valve, not just on-off.

The gap in the boiler shell does not matter. The strength and the seal come from the joining strip connection to the shell, not the closing of the gap itself. Much greater surface area for the solder from the strip than from the thin butt joint. (Appearance and builder satisfaction are different considerations.)

I learned a trick to hold solder while using a "flamethrower". Stick a length of solder into the end of a stainless steel tube, say 1/8" diameter. Bend the end of the solder first so that it stays in place. I use one of those K&S tubes found at hobby shops and hardware stores, but lots of things would work. I did not invent this, but I cannot remember where I saw it on the web.

I usually wear a welding glove on one hand while working the torch with the other. That allows a bit closer access to the flame zone and the hot parts.

The Sievert torches can melt small copper parts, but it would take a lot of abuse and good insulation to damage a large copper mass like the boiler tube.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2023, 05:15:40 AM
Thanks for the great tips and comments Chris, Steve, Baltic, Ron, and Gene!  :cheers:

Yes, I've made myself one of those hooked pointy rods like Kozo recommends.  It does see a lot of use!

Gene, great suggestion on how to add solder w/o burning your hand!  I'll have to figure out some kind of applicator.  Somehow, with the OA setup I was able to get my hand in closer.  The flame is hotter, but it's much more focused heat.  Guess that was a help with the 'adding solder' bit, but a danger in the 'melting parts' bit.  :embarrassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on January 27, 2023, 07:32:06 AM
it is good if you can get a helper use the propane to do the main heating and them use the OA to just touch up the spots were the solder does not won't to run the little more heat from the oxygen torch can sometimes get the solder to run .while the helper can keep the main heat going. that was how i did my speedy boiler and other boilers i have built .
john
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 27, 2023, 12:01:00 PM
I haven't commented on this thread for some time as I have no experience on this part of the project.
But I feel that it must have been very gratifying to have accomplished this latest part -> so a congratulation is in order  ;)   :ThumbsUp:    :cheers:    :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: joe d on January 27, 2023, 01:14:20 PM
Kim: Still following along, albeit quietly.  You are making great progress.  For your need for adding more solder during the operation, I've had
excellent results using a 10" surgical clamp holding a length of solder ... easy to manipulate and keeps my spare hand out of the flame!

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 27, 2023, 06:12:48 PM
I will echo what others have said about holding your solder  :ThumbsUp: There are ways to patch solder where spots are missed, I have used clamps alone or with metal mass as heat sinks and high heat in a concentrated area to reflow depending on the size of the area. This will heat the spot you want and the clamps pull the heat away from spots not needing solder. My two cents. And Kim very nice work your becoming very intuit with your work….

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on January 27, 2023, 06:52:38 PM
Hello Kim,

I have a feeling it gets more exciting with each part for the boiler.
But you did it again! 👍
The idea of ​​working with a second burner is not bad.
Maybe you have someone to help you.
I have only soldered a large boiler once so far. Before soldering with oxygen and acetylene, I preheated the boiler with the propane roofer burner and brought it up to temperature.

I think it will be a good one 🚂

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 27, 2023, 07:03:53 PM
Thank you John, Per, Joe, Don, and Michael!  I really appreciate the comments and suggestions!

The forceps idea is a great one, Joe!  I've got a few of those so might give that a try, since it's easy.  I've also been considering what kind of little tube I have that I could feed solder though, as Gene had suggested too.

So many good ideas and suggestions.  Thank you all!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 27, 2023, 07:18:20 PM
If you have short lengths of the wire solder handy off to the side, you can move the flame off the piece briefly to lay them on the joint without burning yourself or the tools so bad - the part wont cool down so fast that this is a problem.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 27, 2023, 09:20:27 PM
I've also been considering what kind of little tube I have that I could feed solder though

Just to be clear, the solder is not fed through the tube. Only an inch or so is inserted into the end of the tube. Several inches (+/-) of solder are left sticking out. The tube then serves as a long handle, not as a conduit.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on January 27, 2023, 10:07:58 PM
Hello Kim,
I'm a newbie here and still feeling my way so please forgive me if I make any mistakes with the forum protocol.

I don't know what grade of silver solder you were using - your term "medium" might correspond to the European 40% silver solder -  nor do I know whether it's cadmium-bearing or cad-free (which is all we can buy in the UK) but the gap between your strap and the shell seems a little too large. For cad-bearing you would be looking for about 3-6 thou because it's a filler-type solder but for cad-free it could be hammered flat and the solder would still penetrate.

I always flux the job and rest the solder alongside the join, then heat from the other side. This way, there is no guesswork regarding whether you've reached temperature or not. However, if you prefer to use the dab-it-in method, cut a snippit of solder and rest it near to the join. When it starts to glisten, you are only a few degrees from melting-point so you can bang the heat up for ten seconds, remove the flame and dab the solder. It should flash and give a good joint. What you don't want is the flame on the solder, this will usually end up in a dry joint.

Your worst enemy is slow-cooking, this kills the flux before you add the solder. I've always found it pays to get close to melting point, then really shove the heat in and get the soldering done as quick as you can. The flux will keep going for a few minutes but if it starts to go like treacle, then it's too late. The flux is dead and you need to stop, cool, pickle, then start again.

Apologies if this is teaching granny to suck eggs  :( and there may be others with differing opinions but it works for me and it might help someone else who is struggling with silver-solder like I was six or seven years ago.
I shall follow the rest of this thread with much interest.
Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 27, 2023, 10:48:15 PM
Steve has a good point about the gap with the cylinder and the strap - if too large, the solder wont fill it. If you support the outside of the cylinder there, and tap on the inside with a hammer or block, you can bend the strap down closer there and reduce the gap, then do another soldering pass on it. Same thing could come up later on the end caps - for a minor gap that the solder won't wick in, close it up like that before another solder round.

Steve, the 'medium' terminology is part of the current grades, at least here in the US. There is 'hard', 'medium', 'easy', and 'extra-easy' grades, denoting the percentage of silver in the solder, and their melting points. Here is what I found in one of the charts:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on January 28, 2023, 01:20:56 AM
I was thinking about your suggestion Chris, and wondered if, on a new boiler project, when rolling, if the blank was made a little extra long so that one could cut the reinforcing strip off the end with built-in camber.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2023, 02:08:55 AM
Hi Steve (Springcrocus, Steve, in this case),
Thank you for the excellent pointers!  I will ALWAYS take input from others.  Even if I might happen to know something, that doesn't mean I'm remembering.  I really appreciate your (and everyone's) thoughtful comments. Thank you!  I welcome all input.  While it may be hard to go back and re-do something you think you've completed, I'd SO much rather get things right before I move on. It will only get worse to try and deal with a  problem later.  So, thank you!

I'll take another look at that spot on the boiler shell and see what I can do about it.  Chris provided a good suggestion on how to remediate it, so I'll give that a look next time I'm in the shop.

I think Chris has answered the question on the "medium" grad solder terminology.  And I don't believe you can purchase the silver solder with cadmium in the US either. What I'm using, I'm sure, is cadmium free.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 28, 2023, 03:59:19 PM
And I don't believe you can purchase the silver solder with cadmium in the US either.

It is readily available in most places, although perhaps not California. (I have not used it for many years.)

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on January 28, 2023, 04:24:13 PM
It is readily available in most places, although perhaps not California. (I have not used it for many years.)
McMaster_Carr stocks the cadmium-based silver solder, but it's expensive and it's probable best just to use Safety-Silv.  There's a reason they banned that solder in most countries.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 28, 2023, 04:26:28 PM
And I don't believe you can purchase the silver solder with cadmium in the US either.

It is readily available in most places, although perhaps not California. (I have not used it for many years.)

Gene
Ah, OK. Thanks for the info, Gene.   :)

It IS available, though I'm not using it!  I'm using the cadmium free silver solder.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 28, 2023, 04:29:12 PM
Its worth checking around on price for the silver solder, it is available in all the grades in wire and sheet form from most of the jewelry tool suppliers, many of them vary the price on current price of silver, or at least the price when they bought it, so the prices vary a lot. Sold by the foot in the wire form, which I prefer since I can cut it and lay it right next to the joint in the flux before heating.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 28, 2023, 04:38:57 PM

I always flux the job and rest the solder alongside the join, then heat from the other side. This way, there is no guesswork regarding whether you've reached temperature or not. However, if you prefer to use the dab-it-in method, cut a snippit of solder and rest it near to the join. When it starts to glisten, you are only a few degrees from melting-point so you can bang the heat up for ten seconds, remove the flame and dab the solder. It should flash and give a good joint. What you don't want is the flame on the solder, this will usually end up in a dry joint.

Your worst enemy is slow-cooking, this kills the flux before you add the solder. I've always found it pays to get close to melting point, then really shove the heat in and get the soldering done as quick as you can. The flux will keep going for a few minutes but if it starts to go like treacle, then it's too late. The flux is dead and you need to stop, cool, pickle, then start again.
Excellent point and once you reach temp move the flame in and out not to over heat. This will give you time to touch up spots needed. If you have the proper flux it tells you when it the correct temperature. It will  look wet and your solder will flow.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 30, 2023, 01:38:33 AM
Thank you all for the advice on silver soldering my boiler!  It is all greatly appreciated!

I only got a little shop time this weekend; a bit on Saturday and a bit today. But I feel that I’ve made some meaningful forward progress!

Looking at the boiler shell, it was clear that I needed to take care of that gap between the joining strap and the shell.  I initially tried to convince myself that since the actual outside joint looked like it had received good solder flow that I was OK.  And maybe I would have been.  But I didn’t want to chance it.  So, I did what Chris recommended and tried to close the gap between the two with a little force, then did another round of silver solder.  Here’s my after shot.  I was able to close up about 1/3 of the gap, but you could still see a good stretch behind that (about 1” or so) that still had that gap.  It's hard to get force applied in the right spot to close that gap. :-\
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187b-SilverSolderingTheShell-1-DSC_2155.jpg)

Now I was going back to thinking “I’ve put a lot of solder in that hole.  It couldn’t leak there!” This is where I left it on Saturday.

But on Sunday, I was in a better frame of mind.  So I tried another approach.  I used my little tin of copper shavings and spent some time wedging pieces of copper into that gap.  I actually was feeling pretty good about this.  I was able to get them wedged in there really well.  And with some effort, they filled the gap quite well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187b-SilverSolderingTheShell-2-DSC_2166.jpg)

And here’s the after shot of this attempt.  I’m quite pleased with this.  I got good coverage with the silver solder.  And I feel pretty good about how that worked out.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187b-SilverSolderingTheShell-3-DSC_2169.jpg)

I could have used the copper wire trick too.  But in this case, I think copper shavings were a pretty good choice because of the shape of the gap I was attempting to fill.

There’s one other spot that I use the copper shaving trick.  It was on the other end of the boiler shell.  It was a small gap in the end of the shell just past where the end of the joining strap.  It’s hard to tell from this picture, but that gap goes all the way through.  You can see through it.  Again, I ‘think’ this gap could have been closed when I soldered the front sheet into place there.  But I’d rather take care of that gap now just to be sure.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187b-SilverSolderingTheShell-5-DSC_2146.jpg)

So, I filled it with shavings, fluxed it up, and flowed some solder into the joint.  I think it came out pretty good!  Now, this picture is taken with the shell flipped around, but it is exactly the same place.  And you can see that the gap has been closed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/187b-SilverSolderingTheShell-4-DSC_2172.jpg)

This has been quite the learning process for me, but I’m now going to claim victory over the boiler shell.   ;D

Next up will be making and attaching the little bits and bobs that will adorn the boiler shell.

Thanks for all your help!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 30, 2023, 02:40:14 AM
Great fixes for the gaps!  I recall using copper wire flattened on an anvil, never thought of shavings, great!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 30, 2023, 12:09:55 PM
Looks like you had a good Solder Flow in both places Kim  :ThumbsUp:

And I like the idea of using something that would otherwise have been waste material  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 30, 2023, 03:52:55 PM
Great idea and well executed plan for filling those gaps Kim. I've never done that with copper (or brass), but I have used steel bits to fill a gap for oxy-acetylene welding. Worked in that case too!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on January 30, 2023, 04:53:46 PM
A little late, but  :-[

Kozo's wires are not very effective for closing the shell tightly. Much more effective is the use of worm-drive hose clamps to close the shell. (I believe the Brits sometimes call these Jubilee Clips.)

When the shell is tightly closed, and then the joining strip is riveted, the gaps will not appear when the clamps are removed before soldering.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 30, 2023, 06:18:44 PM
Thanks Chris, Per, and Ron!

Gene,
Yes, I can see how hose clamps would have been a MUCH better solution for holding the tube closed than the twisted wire.  I kept breaking the wire when I'd try to twist it tighter.  A little frustrating, but I eventually got it to work OK.  But hose clamps!  That's a brilliant idea!  Have to file that away for next time.

Thanks again!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 30, 2023, 07:52:05 PM
Nice recover Kim…. :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: learn2turn on January 30, 2023, 07:57:06 PM
Congratulations on a job well done Kim.  The boiler is coming along nicely.  I think your approach on filling those gaps was very resourceful and it looks like it worked great.  Now I sit and wait for the next update.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: PJPickard on January 31, 2023, 12:50:28 AM
Interesting to compare you and Blondihacks...she did the exact same with her last video and had the exact same issue of the solder not flowing where you had the same issue. She was able to reheat and get it flowing. I will be wanting to make a boiler soon so this is very useful stuff! Thanks for posting it
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2023, 01:19:13 AM
Thank you Learn2Turn and PJPicard.  Glad to have you following along and I appreciate the comments!

Yes, I watched Blondihacks video the other day.  It always makes me feel better to know that, not just that others struggle with the same things I do, but that they can find ways to make it work!  It gives me optimism that I can do the same :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2023, 01:33:05 AM
Chapter 23.11 – Truing and Facing the Shell

Now Kozo has you true up the freshly rolled and soldered shell.  You do this by forcing a round form through the shell tube.  This has been mentioned earlier by Gene I believe, and now I’m going to do it.

Interestingly, Kozo had you make the front tube shell backing plate the EXACT right size for this operation. But before I could use it to size the tube I had to take a little notch out of it to clear the joining strap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-01-DSC_2158.jpg)

Unfortunately, when I put the form in the end of the shell, it pretty much just fell through… well, not quite.  But it was far too easy.   In this picture, I’m using a dowel rod to just push the form through the tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-02-DSC_2162.jpg)

So I measured the inside diameter of the tube.   It was pretty close to what it should be (3.555”) but it was out of round by 20 thou or so. The out-of-roundness wasn’t surprising, since that's what we're trying to address here.  But the fact that the disk moved through the tube so easily even when it was out of round – THAT was what was surprising.  So then I measured the diameter of the disk.  I had thought I’d sized it very carefully to Kozo’s specified dimensions.  However, it was clearly 15 thou undersized.  It was about 3.540”.  Not sure why.  I wondered if my pounding had caused some size change?  The formed part (front tube sheet) came out the right size – but wait – this was just the backing plate, which had no bearing on the size of the formed part.  I'm betting I just wasn’t as careful with the backing plate thinking that its size wasn't really critical.  And it wasn't, for the forming.  But it was because Kozo had other uses for the backing plate!  Shows I should always listen to Kozo!  :embarassed:

Off to make another forming disk.  I need a second one anyway, for the next operation of facing the ends of the tube.  This time I used an actual 1/4" mandrel instead of a 1/4" bolt. Worked much better!  I should have done that the first time (I just happened to have a 1/4" mandrel in my stock of previously made jigs and such - guess I didn't even bother to check the first time!  How silly of me!).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-03-DSC_2191.jpg)

This time when I pushed the form through the tube, it actually did its job!  It took some effort to pound it through the tube.  I’d move it a bit then pound on the sides that looked a little high. Then move it a bit more.  After doing that a time or two, the tube was much more round!  It was awesome!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-04-DSC_2194.jpg)

And as a quick check, I tried fitting the front tube sheet in place.  And it’s a nice snuggish-but-not-too-tight fit.  I’m pleased with that!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-05-DSC_2196.jpg)

Next, we need to face the ends of the tube to make them square and even, and get the tube to length.

I fit the two former circles I had into each end.  The slightly small one needed a few wraps of masking tape to provide a good friction fit, but it worked just fine.  Then, starting with the end that was most uneven, I faced it off using very small cuts of about 5 thou per pass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-06-DSC_2207.jpg)

Once one end was true, I measured the overall length of the tube to see how much length I had to play with. I still had another 45 thou to remove.  This was good.   I also needed to make sure that the joining strap ended 3/16” from the front end of the shell. This is important as the front tube sheet needs to recess into the front end that far.

So I shaved another 20-25 thou off this end to bring it down to where that recess was correct.  I had to back the center out of it’s place in order to measure the recess there, but would always put it back before I took another facing pass!  (You can kind-a see where the joining strap sticks out along the back of the tube next to the blue tape sticking out there.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-07-DSC_2210.jpg)

I also made sure that I had enough length left to face off the other end of the tube so that it was even and square.  Which there was. 

After facing off the other end, here is the finished shell – trued and faced!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/188a-TruingAndFacingTheShell-08-DSC_2215.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 02, 2023, 01:36:31 AM
that's looking the business Kim!    Nice solder job!   It's always satisfying when a solder job goes well.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2023, 01:40:44 AM
Chapter 23.12 – Silver Soldering the Bushings and Studs

You may have thought I was all done with the woodworking, but no!  I’ve still got some more of that to do!

A few days ago, Chris sent me an email suggesting a good way to hold the boiler tube while drilling it.  I liked his suggestion so much, that’s what I’m going to do!  So, using the time-honored technique of taking excellent advice from others and making it look like your own, I’m going to show you what I did.  O:-)

First, I cut a couple of chunks from a scrap 2x6 I happened to have laying around.  Standard dimensioned lumber is certainly not that accurately sized, nor does it have very tight grain and it splinters a lot!  But for this application, I think it will work just fine.  I guess we'll find out at least, eh?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-01-DSC_2182.jpg)

I drilled two long holes through each end of the two chunks of 2x6, spacing them so that they would fall right over the T-slots on my mill.  Then I took the largest hole saw that I had and cut a hole in the center of each of them.  You can see the plug I just drilled out of it there in front.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-02-DSC_2186.jpg)

Next, I moved them to the lathe and bored out the hole to a nice sliding fit for the boiler shell.  You can see here, I’ve zip-tied my shop vac hose to the boring bar.  This worked quite well for keeping most of the wood swarf off the lathe bed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-03-DSC_2201.jpg)

Then I went back to the table saw and cut them in half.  Now I have a great pair of clamps to hold the tube in place during the soon-to-come drilling operations! Thanks for the great tip, Chris!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-04-DSC_2219.jpg)

Next, I made the handrail studs.  These will be soldered into the boiler shell and will be used to fasten the handrail to, eventually.  They were made from 3/8” bronze.  They are 1/4" in diameter and the very tip is threaded 1/4-32 for threading into the boiler shell. Then I put a 3-48 threaded hole in the center for fastening the handrail.  Then cut it off the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-05-DSC_2175.jpg)

Here are all four of the handrail studs, completed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189a-BushingsAndStuds-06-DSC_2178.jpg)

This covers the last couple of days of work and brings you up to date on my build.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2023, 01:43:22 AM
that's looking the business Kim!    Nice solder job!   It's always satisfying when a solder job goes well.

Dave
Thanks Dave!

Isn't it though? :)

This one took me at least 3 tries. That's how I'm seeing most of my boiler work going though... multiple retries to get the joints that I think (hope) will make a successful pressure vessel!  I know you know what that's like - you've certainly done it before!  :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 02, 2023, 03:02:43 AM
Great job on the clamps, I think you'll like how they work.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 02, 2023, 04:30:43 PM
I like the tube straightening method and wooden jig a lot. Thanks for showing those!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 06, 2023, 10:42:47 PM
Great job on the clamps, I think you'll like how they work.

Yes!  I think I will when I actually get around to using them :)


I like the tube straightening method and wooden jig a lot. Thanks for showing those!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Thank you Steve!  Yeah, I was surprised at how well it actually worked!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 06, 2023, 10:49:48 PM
No shop time over the weekend. Had lots of family duties. Wonderful duties, but they kept me out of the shop all the same.

But today I was able to continue making the shell bushings and studs.

I started with the steam dome base.  This was turned from a piece of 1.5” bronze rod.  Here I’m in the process of parting it off.  It’s a pretty good-sized hunk of bronze!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-1-DSC_2222.jpg)

After parting, I flipped it around and faced off the parted end so that it was flat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-2-DSC_2224.jpg)

Then to the mill where I found the center of the part using the axial indicator (always fun!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-3-DSC_2227.jpg)

And proceeded to spot and drill a bunch of holes.  The four smallest holes around the outside are blind holes and will be threaded.  The other four are all through holes.  Two for the pressure gauges (front and back), one for the throttle (left side), and one for the steam passage to the cylinders (right side).  This would be the view from the front of the engine, not the engineer's position, so don’t be confused!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-4-DSC_2231.jpg)

Here I’m threading the four holes 8-32.  These will be for holding the throttle body onto the steam dome base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-5-DSC_2233.jpg)

Next up was the Blower Pipe Bushing.  This is not actually for the boiler shell, it will eventually be soldered in the backhead. But I’m just turning up all the bushings now while I’m at it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-6-DSC_2239.jpg)

This one has 1/4”-32 threads on the outside of the bushing for hooking up the blower valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-8-DSC_2242.jpg)

Interestingly, I wanted a bottoming tap for this op, but didn’t have one.  In fact, I couldn’t find a 1/4”-32 bottoming tap anywhere!  So I got a second 1/4"-32 taper tap and just ground the taper threads off of it.  I started with the taper tap, then switch to the ground one to clean up those bottom few threads. Seemed to work pretty well.  At least in this bronze, which is quite easy to work with.  Though I kinda think it would work in steel too!  I mean, what really, is the difference between a taper tap and a bottoming tap other than the bottoming tap doesn't have the taper threads on the end, right?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-7-DSC_2236.jpg)

And here’s my work for the day.  The Steam Dome Base and the Blower Pipe Bushing (for the backhead).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189b-BushingsAndStuds-9-DSC_2244.jpg)

More bushings and studs to come in the near future.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 06, 2023, 11:53:23 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 07, 2023, 01:22:55 AM
Nice progress Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 07, 2023, 01:33:15 AM
Great job on the bushings, cranking right along.   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 07, 2023, 05:04:17 AM
Thanks Jeff, Dave, and Chris! :)

Yeah, 'cracking right along' for me is probably almost standing still for you, Chris!  :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 08, 2023, 11:23:57 PM
Continuing on with the boiler shell studs and bushings:

I started with the water inlet studs.  There are two of these, one on either side of the boiler.  One is an inlet for the axle pump and the other is the inlet for the hand pump in the tender.

These were made from 3/8” bronze rod.  They are 5/16” diameter, fully threaded 5/16”-24, with a #22 hole through the center.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-1-DSC_2247.jpg)

Next, I did the steam studs. Again, there are two of these.  They are not soldered into the boiler shell, but one will be required for the steam dome assembly (for the steam output) and the other will be used in conjunction with the blower bushing to get the steam from the control valve in the cab up to the smokebox. Both will end up being soldered into the front tube sheet.

These are also made from 3/8” bronze rod, 5/16” in diameter with only the front 1/4" threaded 5/16”-24.  Also a through hole but with a bit of relief on the outside for a steam fitting.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-2-DSC_2250.jpg)

The steam studs are opened to 7/32” on the back side to a 1/8” depth to accept a 7/32” copper tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-3-DSC_2253.jpg)

While I had the 3/8” bronze in the lathe I also made the bell stud.  No pictures of this, but it is exactly the same as the handrail studs from the last update except that the blind hole is tapped 5-40 instead of 3-48.  Interestingly, I’d apparently left the bell stud off my BOM!  Yikes!  So I fixed that.  If anyone is interested, the latest version (rev C) is now posted on the first page of this build (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.0.html).

The final bushing is the water fill bushing.

It was made from 1” bronze rod.  None of my collets at 1” and above will let you pass material all the way through them :(.  So either I cut off a little chunk of that precious 1” bronze rod or I changed chucks. I chose to do the latter.  In this bushing, the center hole is tapped 1/2”-20.  I used a taper tap first then followed up with a bottoming tap.  As it turns out, the hole I’d made wasn’t deep enough for the taper tap to do much good.  Most of the actual cutting was done by the bottom tap. But I guess it helped get the threads started straight, which is part of its job, eh?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-4-DSC_2255.jpg)

And here’s the obligatory shot of patting it off:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-5-DSC_2258.jpg)

Here’s the bushing family shot.  I’d give you all their names but even I, as their parent, can’t remember them all!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-6-DSC_2260.jpg)

Last thing I did before heading in was to mark up the boiler shell with where the holes for all these bushings and studs need to go.  I put one of the forms back in the front end to allow me to lay out the 450 lines.  I think I should have added these lines before rolling the shell too, just like I did the lines at 900.  But for some reason, Kozo didn’t have you do that.  Ah well. I’ll be using the DRO to help make sure things are as close as possible to the right place. But as always, I like to mark up the part too in order to decrease the chance of me duffing it up!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189c-BushingsAndStuds-7-DSC_2265.jpg)

And that’s it for today’s update. Next time, we’ll drill holes in the shell and make use of those nifty clamping fixtures that Chris showed me!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 09, 2023, 12:19:20 AM
Bushings look great, Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 09, 2023, 11:57:11 PM
Thank you, Steve!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2023, 12:14:31 AM
Now to make swiss cheese out of my carefully constructed boiler shell.

I set the boiler shell up on the mill using the neat wood cradle(TM Chris Ruby) and tapped it in so that the center line was parallel to the bed of the lathe.  I just did this by eye, using the pointer (and my magnifying visor – so I guess it was ‘assisted’ eye :)).  And to set the position rotationally, I put marks on the end of the shell at all 45-degree points and made sure that opposite marks were equidistant from the bed.  To assist with this, I set an adjustable parallel to the height where those lines should cross. That made it a lot faster to do.  And I had to do this every time I rotated the shell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-1-DSC_2269.jpg)

After setting it to one of the sides, I used a edge finder to touch of the end and used the DRO to move to the correct location of one of the water inlet holes (there’s one on each side).  Here I drilled for a 5/16”-24 tapped thread.  You can see I decided to put one of the formers in the end as additional support while drilling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-2-DSC_2274.jpg)

Then tapped 5/16”-24.  The only 5/16-24 tap I have is a forming tap. But that worked very well in the copper.  I practically gave myself a heart attack here though.  :zap: I initially drilled the hole with an “I” drill, which is the correct size for a 5/16”-24 cutting tap. And when I went to get the tap I realized – I don’t got one of those!  I was supposed to remember and drill it for a forming tap. Luckily, the hole for a form tap is BIGGER than the one for a cutting tap, so it was easy to drill out the hole to “M” size and go forward.  If it’d been the other way around, I’d have been quite sad I can tell you!  But, crisis averted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-3-DSC_2277.jpg)

After doing the water inlet hole on the opposite side, I moved on to the handrail studs. These are 45 degrees down from the top on each side.  I drilled and tapped them 1/4"-32 with no additional heart attack-inducing incidents. Again, doing the same on both sides of the shell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-4-DSC_2281.jpg)

I didn’t take a pic, but I did drill the hole for the boiler stud (also a 1/4"-32) along the top.

Next, I drilled 1/2" holes as a starting for the steam dome and the water fill bushing.  I did this in several steps to make drilling the copper easier.  Not sure it was, but that’s what I did regardless.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-5-DSC_2284.jpg)

Finally, I bored out these two holes the final size.  I can tell you that I REALLY appreciated Chris’s(TM) holder jig for the boring.  The holes – that’s one thing. I might have gotten away without it there.  But for this boring into copper?  I really needed that solid clamping and the Chris(TM) jig worked a treat! Thank you again, Chris!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-6-DSC_2288.jpg)

Following the drilling, tapping, and boring, I deburred the holes then forced the round form through the boiler shell again to return things to round.  It didn't move much out of round, but I'm glad I did it because while I couldn't really see it just by looking, there was clearly a bit of deformation around the bored holes because the form took some work to get it past that area.  But pounding the form thorough again brought it right back into round.

Here’s my parting shot for the day – all the bushings and studs dry-fitted into the shell.  Everything looks good! (Caution: the steam dome base is rotated by 90o from its actual, official final position – oops. I hope I remember to rotate it before I solder!  :???:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/189d-BushingsAndStuds-7-DSC_2292.jpg)

That’s it for today.

This may not look like much, but it was a good solid 5 1/2 hours of work for me.  Sure, I supposed I don’t work that fast, but it just takes time to do this kind of accurate work.  I don’t know how some of you guys do it!

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 10, 2023, 12:56:54 AM
Excellent results! Glad the clamps worked so well for you, much more secure and accurate than just hold downs at the bottom.   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 10, 2023, 02:28:22 AM
That's a fine looking round of swiss cheese, Kim.  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2023, 05:09:33 AM
Thanks Chris and Ron! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 10, 2023, 07:49:53 AM
Very neat and tidy, nice work.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 10, 2023, 10:24:27 AM
Nice crisp holes and no mishaps - what more can a man wish for  ;)

Great result so far Kim  :ThumbsUp:                   :cheers:    :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2023, 05:23:46 PM
Thank you Steve and Per!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 10, 2023, 05:46:15 PM
Outstanding work Kim and remember time is not that important it’s the quality that counts. So don’t worry about how much time it takes. The speed with come with experience. Your doing great….. :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2023, 10:39:24 PM
Thank you, Don!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 10, 2023, 10:48:24 PM
Chapter 23.13 – Silver Soldering the Steam Dome Base

Well, for those of you following along in your hymnal, you’ll notice that I’ve blended two sections – 23.12, where Kozo deals with all the boiler shell studs and bushings, and 23.13 where he addresses the steam dome base.  I’ve kinda played willy-nilly with that and mushed the two sections together.  It just made sense to me as I was doing it.  If I’d realized that I was confusing the order, I might have delayed posting the construction of the steam dome base.  But since I’ve already posted it I’m just going to march on.  If it causes anyone too much heartburn, I’m sorry.

Regardless, I’m going to continue to do it :)

Today I started by setting up the steam dome base for soldering.  Kozo has you use four copper rivets to help hold the steam dome base in place.  It’s a neat method, but he doesn’t really give you much idea on how to find the right spots for the rivet holes.  So here’s how I did it.

First, I set the boiler shell in the cradle and made sure it was square to its final position using the same method as I did on the mill yesterday.  Then I used a digital level to get the steam dome base level with the top of the steam dome (it does rock to the left or right a little bit, so this is important.)  Then I made little marks on either side to show where the top of the shell falls.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2296.jpg)

Using that mark, I determined a location to drill the hole for the rivet.  I wanted the rivet placed so that the dome would stand a little proud of the top of the shell by default, and you’ll see why in a moment.  Then I used the steam holes that were drilled in the part as a way to orient it in the mill.  One of the holes was a little smaller than the other so I calculated the correct shim to use to make it square and found the center of the part in the X direction, and the bottom of the part in the Y.  Using the location I calculated, I then drilled a rivet sized hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2299.jpg)

After checking that this hole ended up in the right spot (which it did!  Yay!) I drilled the opposite side the same way.

Then I used a round needle file to file dimples on the edges of the hole that the rivets would sit in.  This will keep the steam dome base from rotating during soldering, plus, it gives me an opportunity to fine-tune the left/right angle of the part while getting it to sit flat against the top of the shell.  It’s hard to see in this picture, but there are tinny divots in the low sides of the hole here – those are what I just made.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2301.jpg)

I did several test fittings while filing those tiny divots, but it went well and now the steam dome base sits securely against the top of the shell, it is level left and right, and won’t rotate.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-4-DSC_2303.jpg)

But to keep it from falling out during soldering, Kozo has you put a couple more rivets into the underside of the steam dome base.  These holes were actually easier to figure since I could calculate the distance from the edge of the rim to the hole by knowing the thickness of the shell and the diameter of the rivet.  Here’s a shot of one of the inside rivets (with the head removed, of course).  There’s one just like it on the opposite side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-5-DSC_2309.jpg)

With this completed, the steam dome base should stay nicely in place while sodering.

But… that’s not the first thing we’ll be sodering.  That's going to be the bushings. (Continuing my mushing of these two sections.)

So, I prepped the four handrail studs with flux and a ring of solder, and set up on the hearth for the offering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-6-DSC_2314.jpg)

It went pretty well.  I always get worried because it takes longer to get things up to temp that I’m used to with OA.  But I got there and all the solder flashed.  Here’s the part cooling before I soak it in the pickle.  I’m trying to let it get below 200F before I put it in the pickle.  I’ve heard that the thermal sock can damage the solder connections, and we don’t want that, do we?!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190a-SteamDomeBase-7-DSC_2317.jpg)

But the thermal shock does knock a lot of the soot and dirt off.  I do miss that part of dunking hot items directly into the pickle!

In general, I feel that parts coming out of my pickle bath don’t look as nice as other peoples do.  One thing I’m trying is putting more citric acid powder in my pickle solution.  I just did that today. When I first made this large batch I dissolved as much citric acid into it as it seemed to take.  But that was some time ago so I’m going to try and dissolve some more into the solution and see if it makes my pickle bath work better.  It could also be because I keep it in my cold garage.  I know temperature affects how much citric acid you can dissolve into the solution.

Anyway, we’ll see if it helps at all.

Thanks for following me along and for all the encouraging and helpful comments.  I really do appreciate it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 10, 2023, 11:05:08 PM
Nice job fitting the parts!


Before soaking in the pickle, I usually start with a hot water rinse and scrubbing it with a brass wire brush to knock off the soot and flux loose bits  have been using Sparex on copper, brass, bronze, for little parts sometimes a little vinegar in a cup  works too. Whatever is used, take it out after a while and give it another wire brushing. When the boiler is capped you won't be able to scrub the inside, but hot water filling and rinsing will take out a lot and keep it from dirtying the pickle so much. The sager pickle solutions work fine, just slower than the nasty acids. Well worth the wait not to handle the nastier stuff though


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 11, 2023, 02:27:23 AM
It could also be because I keep it in my cold garage.  I know temperature affects how much citric acid you can dissolve into the solution.

I find that the citric pickle is much more temperature sensitive than sulfuric pickle. The citric works very slowly when cooled below "room temperature". At times I have added a couple of hot water bottles to the bath to help increase the temperature. Of course that option depends on the size of the bath container.

The solubility is temperature sensitive, no doubt, but I have not seen a saturated solution precipitate when cooled.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2023, 04:59:13 AM
Thanks for the great input Chris and Gene.  I appreciate it!

I left the boiler shell in the pickle for a couple of hours today and it really cleaned up well!  Not perfect yet, but I think if I did another soak after the scrub I just did, I'm betting it would be even better.

Sorry I didn't take a picture tonight.  I was holding up dinner so didn't have the time. I just pulled it out of the pickle and rinsed it off well.   I think the additional citric acid powder really helped!  last time I did several hours and it didn't come out anywhere this clean!

Picture tomorrow for sure  :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 11, 2023, 07:30:26 AM
Excellent progress on the boiler  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 11, 2023, 10:31:30 PM
Thank you Roger!

Today we’re soldering four more items – the inlet studs, the water fill bushing, and the bell stud. I chose to do these four because the three studs are all along the front edge and the water fill bushing is in the top, along with the bell stud.  So somehow, this grouping made sense to me.  Though in reality, it probably doesn't much matter.

I did some additional abrasive cleanup with some mini scotch brite wheels on the Dremel.  They do a good job but don’t last very long.  However, I got like 300 of them for $39 off Amazon (about 13 cents each). So, burning through 2-3 of them for a pre-solder cleanup like this isn’t that big of a deal (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09YLJ4F23?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09YLJ4F23?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details).)   After the scotch-brite I cleaned them with acetone, then fluxed them up and put rings of solder around them.

I said I’d take a picture of the boiler shell to show that adding more citrus to the pickle bath really helped, but I forgot. So this next pic is the closest I have to demonstrating that.

This picture was really taken to show how I’m holding the water fill bushing in place.  I’m using one of those titanium clamping strips.  I bent it into a funky shape and clipped it through the steam dome hole.  The piece of scrap steel there is just to help the spring clamp push in the right place.  Seemed to work pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190b-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2320.jpg)

The reason I wanted it clamped like that is that I wanted to be able to solder it upside down – holding the heat on the outside below.  Then the silver solder will have gravity to help guide it in the correct direction!  Same goes for the bell stud which is just in front of the water fill bushing.  I also added some fancy version of correction fluid to the top and inside of the water bushing to keep the solder off the threads (I don’t remember the name of this, but it’s probably just correction fluid that is sold specifically as a silver solder mask, so they can charge 10x the price :)).

For the two inlet studs, I chose to heat those from the inside with the stud pointing up.  You can see the solder ring around the outside of one of those at the front of the boiler in the picture above.

So I rotated the shell 180 degrees so the water fill bushing and bell stud were hanging upside down and began heating from the bottom.  I could see the titanium strip was glowing red hot most of the time, but it never gave way.  It held the bushing in till the solder flowed.  It was a beautiful thing!

Then using some channel locks I rotated the shell 90 degrees and applied heat from the inside of the shell to flow the solder around one of the inlet studs.  And finally, rotating it so the other inlet stud was on top, I completed the last stud.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190b-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2324.jpg)

I have heard people say that having the part surrounded by the fire brick really helps the heating, and I believed them, but today I saw just how much difference it really does make.  I had started the session with the boiler shell sticking out about 1.5” or so thinking that easier access to the underside would be good.  But once things were heated up I could see that the part of the shell inside the firebrick enclosure was red hot, but the part sticking out wasn’t – even though it was closer to the flame!  It took MUCH more heat to get the end of the shell that was sticking out up to the temp where it would flow the solder around the bell stud.  So when I rotated the shell, I set it so it was all inside the protective brick, and that made heating the end for the next two studs significantly easier.

I am no longer skeptical about the value of those insulating bricks!  Call me a believer!  OK, not that I was really skeptical, but I really saw just how much of a difference it made this time.  It was pretty dramatic.

While cooling I was looking at the joints and they all look pretty good – as much as I can tell before cleaning anyway.  Here’s the bell stud.  Nice solder fillet.  But what’s the blue stuff around in the black soot?  It looks cobalt blue in person.  The picture doesn’t do it justice here.  Does anybody know what causes that?  Is it something in the black flux?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190b-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2328.jpg)

And here’s looking down into the shell at the water fill bushing. It looks pretty good from here.  We’ll definitely check again after cleaning.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190b-SteamDomeBase-4-DSC_2331.jpg)

And after it cooled I put it in the citric acid pickle bath.  I’ll leave it there for a few hours and come back to fish it out later.

Thanks for checking in on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 11, 2023, 10:51:05 PM
Really great progress!  I've never tried using the extra bricks (didn't have that many), really made a difference. I'll have to go get some more! About time anyway, several of mine are broken in half with all the use/abuse they have gotten over the years.

Never seen the melted smurfs on the surface like that. Which flux are you using? Harris Black? Powder mixed with a little water? I wonder if it could be some citrus residue melted and turned to glass? The layer its on looks to be on the surface of the copper and cracked as it cooled, so is not in the copper itself. Will be interesting to see if the soak in the pickle cleans it off again.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 12, 2023, 12:04:27 AM
Boiler looks great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

The blue deposits could be salts formed from the action of the flux on the copper.

Or maybe the Blue Angels did a fly through when your back was turned and got to zero feet over the runway. How close is the colour match to the jet's under-tail?  :Lol:

Anyway hope the pickle cleans it up OK.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 12, 2023, 05:22:28 AM
Thanks for the input, Chris and Jeff.

Yes, the bricks really seemed to help quite a bit.  I got a pack of 12 bricks for about $75 from Amazon just before I started the boiler.  I’m glad I did! (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09B6X3G7Q?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09B6X3G7Q?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details))

I’m using Harris black flux.  And yeah, I like the salt theory. That makes a lot of sense.

The blue all came off in the pickle.  Unfortunately, the blue isn’t the right color for that, Jeff.  It was darker, more cobalt blue rather than the royal blue of the Blue Angles.  :ROFL:

I soaked the shell for an hour, stirred things up a bit, gave it a bit of a scrub, and decided to leave it for some additional soak time.

Well, I remembered to check it about 6 hours later, so a total of 7+ hours in the pickle!  It came out pretty nice!

Here it is after a quick rinse/scrub of hot water:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190c-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2336.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190c-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2338.jpg)

There’s still a bit of gunk around the older solder joints where the flux has baked on for several go-rounds. I think another soak and I’d get it all off (and maybe a little more scrubbing).

And on the plus side, all the joints look quite good.  Nice solder fillets around all the studs and bushings.  I’m going to call this a success so far :)

One more thing…I noticed big copper-colored flakes coming off the shell as I rinsed it - both yesterday and today – I mean BIG flakes! Like 1/2" in diameter or so.  Super thin and they’d disintegrate if you touched them.  And even after I dried it off and took the pictures I was still getting some of those flakes, though not big ones:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190c-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2346.jpg)

I started to worry that I was etching away my copper, but I measured things and the copper is still 0.080” thick – no measurable copper loss after two long pickle baths (yesterday and today).  So I’m hoping I’m not doing damage to the boiler with the long baths. I THINK it is the flux and junk flaking off the shell.  And it’s picked up a bit of copper color – like it’s copper plated after being in the pickle or something?
Any thoughts on this?  Do I have to worry about soaking things too long?  Will I wear away my copper if I leave it in the pickle too long?  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 12, 2023, 03:37:18 PM
There may be some reduction going on in the pickle of oxidized copper slag/flakes, and/or precipitating out of the pickle.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 12, 2023, 03:48:05 PM
Could the extra heat held in from the bricks have resulted in more scaling?   :shrug: :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 12, 2023, 04:06:20 PM
There may be some reduction going on in the pickle of oxidized copper slag/flakes, and/or precipitating out of the pickle.
This makes sense.  Undoubtedly, there's SOME reduction going on.  Some copper is transferring into the pickle.  But It can't be much.  There's no discernable decrease in the size of the copper, according to the metrology equipment I have available to me.  But the copper precipitating out of the pickle and forming a coating where the flux was, that might make sense.  That's kinda where it seems to be happening - where there was a lot of flux.

Could the extra heat held in from the bricks have resulted in more scaling?   :shrug: :shrug:
I'm thinking it isn't the heat - I think it's probably more from the baked-on flux residue.  I'm thinking that I didn't really get the part clean enough after my earlier solder sessions.  I was relying on mechanical removal of the flux because I wasn't willing to wait long enough for the pickle to do it's job (or possibly my pickle wasn't strong enough).  Mechanical removal should work too, but I only did it in the areas that I was going to solder, not over the whole thing.  So over multiple heating sessions, as the solder melts and runs around, the flux residue piles got thicker and deeper.

Another thing I'm thinking is that my pickle is pretty dirty.  I've been using this batch for a while, for both steel, brass, and copper.  I know that's a no-no, but I think the reason is because it cross-contaminates the metals. Just like this - I'm getting copper precipitate on the part when it sits in the pickle.  But I generally don't care.  A little buffing usually gets that off. And I'm a painter - at least for this project.

Anyway, so I'm thinking that the kinda gross muck that's collected in the bottom of my pickle vat - as I stir it up, it will leave a thin layer on the part that gets coated with copper and flakes off once I take it out of the pickle.

Having slept on it, that's my current thinking based on your comments and on what I'm seeing.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 12, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
Copper definitely goes into solution in citric acid pickle but whether it comes from the clean copper or from the breakdown of copper oxide, I don't know. To see this in action, put some of your used pickle in a small tub and place a piece of galvanised steel into it. You will see tiny bubbles of hydrogen forming and, when they stop, your piece of galvanised steel will have had the zinc stripped off. However, the steel will be a nice, pink colour where the copper in the solution has been deposited onto the steel. It rubs off fairly easy, though.
Because I get a lot of offcuts of zinc-plated sheet steel from the skip of a local engineering firm, I keep spent pickle in another tub and use it for stripping the zinc off prior to painting. The copper in this solution speeds up the process ten-fold compared to clean, fresh pickle.
Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 12, 2023, 04:58:24 PM
Those insulating fire bricks are very effective, but they are also very fragile. After heating a few times they are very likely to split or even crumble. I would like to switch to the sort of bricks mentioned by Steve (springcrocus), but I have not found them in the US. Probably not quite as thermally efficient, but much better than US "firebrick".

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 12, 2023, 05:01:17 PM
Kim, if the solution has had that much use, its probably time to use it to make your shop elves some grog, and start a fresh batch!   :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 12, 2023, 05:46:06 PM
Copper definitely goes into solution in citric acid pickle but whether it comes from the clean copper or from the breakdown of copper oxide, I don't know. To see this in action, put some of your used pickle in a small tub and place a piece of galvanised steel into it. You will see tiny bubbles of hydrogen forming and, when they stop, your piece of galvanised steel will have had the zinc stripped off. However, the steel will be a nice, pink colour where the copper in the solution has been deposited onto the steel. It rubs off fairly easy, though.
Because I get a lot of offcuts of zinc-plated sheet steel from the skip of a local engineering firm, I keep spent pickle in another tub and use it for stripping the zinc off prior to painting. The copper in this solution speeds up the process ten-fold compared to clean, fresh pickle.
Regards, Steve

Thanks Steve, this makes a lot of sense.  I certainly do see that pink color on steel after it's been pickled.  I thought it picked that up from the brass. But then, brass has some copper in it, doesn't it?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 12, 2023, 05:50:36 PM
Those insulating fire bricks are very effective, but they are also very fragile. After heating a few times they are very likely to split or even crumble. I would like to switch to the sort of bricks mentioned by Steve (springcrocus), but I have not found them in the US. Probably not quite as thermally efficient, but much better than US "firebrick".

Gene

Gene, I've got two kinds of fire brick - one kind is very hard (not as hard as red brick) and one kind is quite soft.  I heard somewhere that the soft kind insulates better than the hard kind. Though I don't know for sure, that would seem to bear out with my minimal experience.  I have had the hard kind break (cause I did stupid with them).  But I've also chipped the soft ones too.  They all seem to crumble with time and use.  Not sure what kind of fire brick they have in the UK.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 12, 2023, 05:52:11 PM
Kim, if the solution has had that much use, it's probably time to use it to make your shop elves some grog, and start a fresh batch!   :Jester:
Yeah, maybe I should.  But probably let it go for a while more.  It still seems to be working  :embarrassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 12, 2023, 06:23:44 PM
The joints look quite sound to me Kim!    If it's still coming out pink, and you're not having trouble with you brazing joints from contamination, it's probably just fine.   It's going to end up with a lot of different things in it after a while....

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 12, 2023, 06:48:24 PM
Copper definitely goes into solution in citric acid pickle but whether it comes from the clean copper or from the breakdown of copper oxide, I don't know. To see this in action, put some of your used pickle in a small tub and place a piece of galvanised steel into it. You will see tiny bubbles of hydrogen forming and, when they stop, your piece of galvanised steel will have had the zinc stripped off. However, the steel will be a nice, pink colour where the copper in the solution has been deposited onto the steel. It rubs off fairly easy, though.
Because I get a lot of offcuts of zinc-plated sheet steel from the skip of a local engineering firm, I keep spent pickle in another tub and use it for stripping the zinc off prior to painting. The copper in this solution speeds up the process ten-fold compared to clean, fresh pickle.
Regards, Steve

Thanks Steve, this makes a lot of sense.  I certainly do see that pink color on steel after it's been pickled.  I thought it picked that up from the brass. But then, brass has some copper in it, doesn't it?

Kim
Actually, the reason the brass goes pink is because the surface atoms of zinc are leached out by the pickle and the copper in solution then re-plates the brass. Polish up the brass with a bit or wire wool and the copper comes off, leaving the clean brass underneath.
Regards, Steve
Edit: Sorry, Kim, this is drifting a bit off-topic.  :-[ I will delete this post if you want.
Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 12:25:34 AM
No problem Steve!  I welcome all advice and greatly appreciate it!  It doesn't feel off-topic to me in the slightest.  This whole section of my build is about me bringing my sliver soldering game to a whole new level!  So it is quite pertinent!  Keep it coming!  I'm enjoying your boiler thread on building your Calbourne boiler.  Very timely given what I'm doing now.

Thank you for all your suggestions and advice, Steve!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 12:47:22 AM
Today is Steam Dome Base day!  I was pretty excited about this – it means I’m almost ready to move past the boiler shell and start making the firebox.

Anyway, on to the steam dome base.

I got the parts all cleaned, fluxed, and solder placed around the joint. I originally tried a full circle of solder but with the compound curve there it was just too hard to fit.  So I ended up cutting a lot of little pieces.  I put quite a bit of solder there. I wanted to make sure I didn’t starve it of solder.  And with all those rivets holding things in place, it seemed like heating it from the outside with the boiler shell upside down seemed the ticket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-01-DSC_2353.jpg)

However, just as the solder started to flow, I noticed that the steam dome had gone all cockeyed!  Several of my rivets had fallen out of their holes!  I had fluxed the rivets before pushing them in the holes, and I’m sure what happened is the flux boiled and popped the rivets right out.  This was bad!  Bad things going on with a big flame in your hand is never good. :(

So, I set the torch down (flame off) used implements to turn the shell over and started heating it up again from the inside.  Unfortunately, all my solder was on the inside, now the underside.  But my feeling was that top priority was to get the steam dome base sitting flat again, not cockeyed.  I could re-heat to add solder later.  But I didn’t want to have to deal with a cockeyed steam dome base!  That would be big trouble!

This actually worked.  Once the solder flowed again (luckily, not all of it has flashed before), the steam dome base fell into position – it still had the top two rivets in place, so that was good. They were the ones that really set the position of the part. I took a moment to check the joint and it looked pretty good around most of the perimeter, but one side seemed to need a bit more solder. But pretty good, given that all the solder had been on the opposite side when I started!  Anyway, I added a bit of solder and added the heat again to cause that to flow.  Here’s where I stopped:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-02-DSC_2355.jpg)

But this time, my inspection showed that one of the top side rivets had popped out.  I’m not sure if you can see the steam dome base in the completed engine or not, but I didn’t want to chance having a big gaping hole there, so I quickly (ish) stuck a rivet in there, added a bit of flux and solder, and re-re-applied the heat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-03-DSC_2364.jpg)

With that crisis under control (or so I believe – fingers crossed) I let the shell cool and put it in the pickle for a nice long bath.

Then I went and sat at my work table to see what to do next.  I was starting to think about making the ring strap (which will connect the boiler shell to the outer firebox) when my stomach suddenly fell…

I’d forgotten to solder the steam pipe into the steam dome base!  YIKES!  You’re supposed to do this before soldering that into the boiler shell!  OH NO!  Red alert!  :hammerbash:

OK, after calming down and thinking through the options, I decided I could solder the steam pipe in now, as it is.

So I got my 7/32” tube and formed it into the approximate shape.

Actually, I got my 7/32” tube and proceeded to mangle it beyond use.  I have used one of these grooved form things to bend tubing before, but this tube has such a thin wall, it is VERY difficult to bend without squishing it flat.  It took me 3 tries to get something I was satisfied with (and I don’t have a very high bar for tube bends).  This is a picture of my second try:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-05-DSC_2384.jpg)

But with several anneals and some careful mushing of the pipe back into a roundish shape, I finally got something I was happy with.  That is, happy with for a tube that's inside the boiler and that will never be seen (by most people anyway).

After fishing the boiler shell out of the pickle prematurely, I hit my next setback.  I’d forgotten to open up the underside of the steam hole to 7/32” for the steam pipe to fit in!  Somehow (sheer stupidness, I presume) I’d left it at the #22 through hole.  I couldn’t figure out HOW to get a drill in side to open up 1/8” to 7/32”.

In the end, I decided to just drill the entire hole out for the pipe.  Then I’d slide the pipe all the way through which would probably help with me soldering it in there now.  So after lining up the existing hole using the #22 bit, I then drilled it out to 7/32”. Actually, I drilled it to #2, which is just a few thou over 7/32”.  7/32” is too tight – the silver solder would not have penetrated through the joint.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-04-DSC_2366.jpg)

With a barely acceptable bend in the tube and a way to fit it in the steam dome, I mocked it up so I could establish the length needed for the steam pipe.  Here’s looking down the barrel of the boiler shell at where the steam pipe fits into the steam dome base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-06-DSC_2375.jpg)

Then I fit the front tube plate in position and marked where I wanted the tube to be cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-07-DSC_2370.jpg)

After cutting the tube to length, I soldered the steam pipe stud on one end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-08-DSC_2376.jpg)

After placing it back in the steam dome base I swaged the tube with the end of some needle nose pliers. This kept the tube from slipping out during soldering.  And I fluxed it and put a couple of wraps of solder there.  I decided to use easy-grade solder here.  I was hoping that this way it would melt and flow before the other solder (I’ve been using medium grade up till now) softened and gave me other issues.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-09-DSC_2379.jpg)

Here’s after soldering. The shell is cooling before being placed in the pickle.  All the solder joints look good.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190d-SteamDomeBase-10-DSC_2383.jpg)

I think I pulled this one off.  We’ll see.

But if you are planning on doing this, I would HIGHLY recommend doing things in the order Kozo suggests.  It would have been MUCH easier and less harrowing had I done it in the right order.

But any landing you can walk away from is a good landing, right? 😊

Thanks for tuning in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 14, 2023, 01:01:31 AM
Wow, quite a busy and a little too exciting day!!


When you get to soldering the caps and firebox, I would suggest not having the firebrick around the rest of the boiler. You are better of letting the already soldered areas radiate off the excess heat rather than risking remelting solder on these fittings and having them move again. On mine I stood the boiler up on end and soldered the end at the top, with the rest of the boiler exposed to the air. Yes, it meant using the big torch to get the cap hot, but the rest stayed below the solder melting temperature. Last thing you want is to chase moving parts! Its another good reason not to file off rivet heads till after its all done, if then.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 14, 2023, 01:36:14 AM
You certainly had yourself an adventure there, Kim! But you did a good job of sorting things out and ended up with a good result. Well done! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 14, 2023, 02:45:11 AM
Quick thinking saved the day without heartache, Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

If you pack some salt into your tubing (left a little long) and crimp the ends, you can bend it more easily without buckling, then snip off the ends and remove the salt. If any ever gets stuck, you can rinse it out.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 05:23:50 AM
Thanks Chris, Ron, and Steve!  :cheers:

Appreciate the advise.  I'll be getting to those stages soon, Chris. Well, if soon is defined as many weeks... :/

Good tip Steve!  I've heard people using sand before, but salt's a great idea.  I have that handy (and I'm not supposed to use it on food anymore, so, good use for it!).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 05:25:31 AM
Just one more pic to show it out of the pickle vat.

It’s looking pretty good.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190e-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2388.jpg)

I did a quick check to make sure the steam dome base is level, and it does seem to be!  At least level to my eye using a square.  And that's close enough for me!

Next will be the ring strap.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on February 14, 2023, 09:57:54 AM
Wonderful work, Kim.  And a couple of great saves.  I like the steam pipe protruding into the dome, but I wonder why it was designed the other way.

The pickle is bringing it up nicely.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 14, 2023, 05:17:17 PM
I wonder why it was designed the other way.

Keep in mind that the throttle assembly is in the dome. The steam delivery pipe cannot connect directly to the other holes shown. It needs to be ported into the throttle block. Lots of ways to do so, but leaving a flat face on the top of the dome base was the design choice.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 05:36:35 PM
I wonder why it was designed the other way.

Keep in mind that the throttle assembly is in the dome. The steam delivery pipe cannot connect directly to the other holes shown. It needs to be ported into the throttle block. Lots of ways to do so, but leaving a flat face on the top of the dome base was the design choice.

Gene

Yes, I'll be filing down the top of the steam tube that sticks out there.  It will be flush with the top of the steam dome base eventually.  I'm taking Chris's comments to heart about not filing off the heads of my hold down screws or rivets till most of the soldering is done.  (at least, for anything I haven't already taken off   :embarassed:).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 14, 2023, 06:10:14 PM
A good recovery  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  Still following along and learning  about steam boilers  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 11:06:11 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2023, 11:17:52 PM
Now for the ring strap.  This is just a copper strap that will connect the boiler shell to the outside firebox.

I cut a piece out of the 0.080” copper sheet and then trimmed up the long edges to an appropriate width.  Kozo specifies 3/8” for this.  I made mine just a tich over that since the rivets I got are a little bigger than what Kozo specified and I don’t think it will make any difference. Plus, the strip I cut allowed me to do it and I figured why turn the extra few thou into swarf when it doesn't really matter?  :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2390.jpg)

Then trimmed the strap to length and put it in the slip rollers to make it round.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2393.jpg)

A trial fit in the end of the boiler shell.  Looks good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2396.jpg)

The front tube sheet former was the perfect size for the ring strap since it’s what formed the front tube sheet, with the same copper stock, and that fits perfectly into the boiler shell.  I used this former to help check the size of the ring while forming.  I had initially planned to just form the ring around this but ended up using the slip rolls instead.

However, it’s not supposed to go that far around the shell.  My master plan here was to make the ring overly long and cut off the ends, then use those pre-bent ends of the ring for the Y-connector pieces that I’ll be making when I join this all with the throat sheet.  (A teaser for upcoming attractions  ;))

So, to determine the required length for the ring I marked it up on the tube sheet former and transferred those marks onto the ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-4-DSC_2398.jpg)

Then I uses this little X-Acto miter box to cut the pieces off the ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-5-DSC_2404.jpg)

Then I marked the locations I want to drill the rivets.  I wanted the ring strap to be centered around the circumfrence, so I set up a stack of various parallels to help make that happen (the stack at the rear of the boiler shell, which is in the foreground of the picture).  But I also had to make sure the boiler shell was oriented properly too.  To do this I used a different stack of parallels and some gauge pins/drill bits in the water inlet studs (along the front of the boiler shell - toward the back of the picture).  This worked really well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-7-DSC_2410.jpg)

And since I had the boiler shell leveled so nicely, I decided to do a more thorough check of the levelness of the steam dome base.  While it may not be perfect, it’s mighty close!  It might be off by 10-15 thou over 12 inches.  That’s pretty good in my book!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190f-SteamDomeBase-6-DSC_2407.jpg)

I didn’t have a lot of shop time today, so this is how far I got.  Next will be to actually drill the rivet holes, set the rivets, and solder the ring strap in place.

Continuing to chug along…
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on February 15, 2023, 12:04:42 AM
Thanks for the explanation on the steam pipe.  All is now clear.

And another step now completed with the ring forming.

It’s going well, Kim.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 15, 2023, 12:15:41 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 15, 2023, 01:53:21 AM
Looking good Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 15, 2023, 04:22:38 AM
Thank you MJM, Jeff, and Steve :)  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 15, 2023, 10:58:23 PM
Picking up where I left off yesterday, I drilled the rivet holes in the boiler shell and ring strap.  To keep things aligned while drilling, I’d put a #4-32 bolt & nut in each rivet hole as I drilled it, then went on to the next hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190g_SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2415.jpg)

Then I spent a chunk of time fluxing up the ring strap and riveting it in place.  This is messy because you’re doing the riveting with flux all over everything.  Then I added a little more flux and put solder down on the joint. I doubled the solder all around – one full ring and a series of shorter pieces stacked on top.  Again, I’m going overboard with the solder, but it seemed like cheap insurance.  I chose to do the soldering with the shell standing on end.  I placed it this way around so I had good visibility of the solder, to watch it flash.  One big problem in dealing with the boiler shell now is that it has that steam pipe sticking out the front end. So that took some special brick arrangement to get it to stand this way without damaging the steam pipe.  You'll also note that I put chunks of the fire brick in the end of the boiler to help protect that little thin-walled pipe that's in there now (more on this later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190g_SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2421.jpg)

As soon as I started applying the flame thrower, I realized that this wasn’t a good setup. I didn’t have good access to where I really needed to apply the heat.  So I took the top off my little boiler cozy and turned the shell around.  This was more of a chore than you might think because I had to get that little steam pipe to fit between my brick stand again, and lifting the shell made all the brick parts I’d stacked in the middle slide out. So I essentially re-did the whole setup.  But this was way more satisfactory!  Once I got things close to temp I was able to work around the outside of the shell and get the solder to flash one section at a time.  It worked quite well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190g_SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2425.jpg)


However, upon inspection, there were a few areas where I was worried I still had a gap in the fillet.  So while things were still hot, I added a few bits of solder dipped in flux, and re-applied the heat.  I did this procedure a few times in different areas along that joint.

Unfortunately, it didn’t look like solder penetrated through to the rivet heads on the inside.  I tried to apply solder while heating, but that just doesn’t seem to work for me with the big flamethrower.  I could do it with the oxy-acetylene torch, but somehow, I can’t get it to work with the Sievert.

So while things were still hot, I re-oriented the shell and applied flux and a ring of solder around a rivet head then applied the heat.  I did this for all four of the rivets.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190g_SteamDomeBase-4-DSC_2429.jpg)

I couldn’t tell if I got penetration on the outside of the rivets.  It looked like I had on some of them, but I won’t be able to tell till things get cleaned up.

Here’s what it looks like, cooling before the pickle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190g_SteamDomeBase-5-DSC_2432.jpg)

One thing I wanted to point out.  I wanted a way to protect that little bitty steam pipe from the full force of the heat, so I was considering breaking one of my bricks in order to get something to cover that tube with.  I wasn’t sure I wanted to be destructive with my bricks but wasn’t sure what else to do.

However, the decision was made for me because as I was arranging the bricks around the boiler shell, one of them just fell apart in my hand!  I thought, well, guess I can use that one.  Then another one just broke in two when picking it up.

So, I’m here to confirm what Gene said earlier – after being used some, these bricks become pretty fragile.  At this rate, I’ll have to get more bricks before my next boiler project!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 15, 2023, 11:58:50 PM
Hi Kim, still enjoying watching your progress with the boiler. Seems like the fire bricks you guys are using are both expensive and not long lasting. I'm kind of wondering if a homemade workaround at less expense might be molding your own bricks or even a rounded shell in plaster of Paris and sand. The mix has quite good insulating qualities and is more refractory than people give it credit for.

I've used it to mold inexpensive refractory in my smaller metal foundry furnace, where it has held up well for aluminum melts, and even brass on occasion. Its insulating qualities mean economical and quick melts using my own atmospheric propane burner. Aluminum pours at about the same temperature as silver solder flows. Brass considerably higher.

If I were doing boilers I might be tempted to make an open sided furnace shaped poured housing using poP and sand mix. Just a thought.....

Pouring a plaster and sand furnace lining around a Sonotube (cardboard) core:

(https://www.sredmond.com/srhacksaw/TinyFurnace/ThirdPour.jpg)



(https://www.sredmond.com/srhacksaw/TinyFurnace/Unmolded.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 16, 2023, 01:49:28 AM
One idea for protecting the steam pipe end Kim - I've had similar situations with pipe, and made a stainless stepped plug and slipped it in the pipe before silver soldering. The head doesn't need to be big, I've made them about 1 pipe diameter high, with chamfered edges. Fit of the small end should be loose in the pipe, maybe .010" clearance, to avoid any distortion which might jam it in place. The plugs seem to sink the heat away and deflect it from the thin walls of the pipe. Just food for thought. Hope the idea helps!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2023, 05:32:38 AM
Thanks, Steve and Jeff! Both great ideas and yes, food for thought!  I have used pieces of sheet metal before as heat shields (and will use some later on this boiler).

As for the plaster of Paris - That's an interesting idea. Though at this point I think I've got these weenie fire bricks and I'll keep using them for this build.  The beauty of the bricks is that you can stack them any way you want to make a heat-holding enclosure.  the PoP idea would seem to require a new heating chamber for each shape of the part, or each soldering operation, depending on the orientation and where you want to apply the heat, etc. But maybe making some PoP bricks or something?  Or a round part to stick inside the boiler shell to protect the internals?  Hmmm... interesting area to think on...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2023, 05:33:25 AM
Well, here we are, after fishing it out of a pickle bath and washing it off.

It mostly looks OK, but there’s a section along the ring that didn’t get a nice fillet of solder.  I’ll have to address that tomorrow.  I may also try to put some solder around the outside of the rivets.  Some of them have a little edge of solder around them, but some don’t.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190h_SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2435.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190h_SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2437.jpg)

At what point do I have to worry about the earlier solder joints with multiple re-heatings?  Some of them don’t look shiny anymore. They look dark colored and gritty.  Like the tube seam or the water fill bushing (top left corner) in the first picture, or the handrail stud in the second picture (inside front right). :(

I’m also wondering if I should get some ‘extra-easy’ grade silver solder?   My thinking is I’ve used the Medium for most of the early joints.  Then I’ll use the easy for the joining of the final assemblies.  And then, I’d use extra-easy for any leak fixing I need to do?  Would that make sense?

Has anyone used the extra-easy before?   Extra-easy flows at 1207F (653C).

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on February 16, 2023, 09:12:38 AM
When Steve (springcrocus) and I did his boilers, we preferred to use bronze screws rather than rivets.  These allowed the assembly to be trialled several times before finally committing to the flux and solder.  And after heating we found that we could test them, and reflux and solder any that could be unscrewed.

We didn't have much trouble with earlier joints remelting.  Excess solder on the outside of the joint might become liquid, but the stuff actually in the joint seemed to stay solid.  We would reflux any earlier joints in the vicinity of any heat-up, to keep them clean, just in case.

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2023, 04:50:27 PM
Thank you for the feedback, Wilf!  I really appreciate the input.
I really enjoyed reading about the boiler you and Steve did!  :ThumbsUp:
Thank you,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2023, 10:40:06 PM
Short shop session today, but I believe I got the gaps taken care of in the boiler shell.  We’ll see for sure when it’s out of the pickle later today.

I started by wedging copper chips in the holes around the ring strap.  I considered just ignoring those since it is the final joint with the firebox that will need to be pressure tight.  But I wanted to make sure I covered every base here, so I decided to take care of this while I could.

You can see my little copper wedges in this picture at the tips of the two red arrows.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190i-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2440.jpg)

Then to the hearth: flux, apply solder, stack the bricks, and apply heat.  You know the routine.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190i-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2442.jpg)

I also added some solder to each of the outside rivet heads and all five of the studs (4 handrail studs and 1 bell stud).  So a total of 9 additional places.  I did this by repositioning the shell, while hot, adding some flux-dipped solder to the appropriate place, rebuilding the hearth, as required, and re-applying heat.  I was able to do these 9 specific spots in seven different move/apply-fluxed-solder/heat cycles.  It took a bit of time, but it seemed to work pretty well.  And it took a lot less time because I didn’t have to reheat the entire shell every time.  I think it helped that I had pre-fluxed each of those areas in preparation for this operation.  But adding more flux with the solder was also key.

This is the last of the 7 unique repositionings that I did.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190i-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2447.jpg)

It was a lengthy solder session, but I think it worked out pretty well. I did my best to inspect each site after soldering (one site took an extra bit of solder  and more heat – so I guess it was eight additional heats total, but only 7 repositions.)

Guess we’ll see how well it worked out in a few hours, eh?

I mostly wore welding gloves while working with the hot hearth, but I tend to take off the glove I'm holding the torch in.  I get a better 'feel' for things that way.  But every once in a while, I'd forget that I didn't have a glove on and grab one of the fire bricks to reposition it, at which point I'd remember I didn't have a glove on.  But hey, who needs fingerprints, right?  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 16, 2023, 11:08:07 PM
Quote
But hey, who needs fingerprints, right?  :embarassed:

AUCH &("&%¤/!¤¤!    :rant:       Auch - I feel for you Kim - that is rather unpleasent experience ....

Otherwise it looks like you still are making progress (enven if some post reveal challenges)  :ThumbsUp:

Per          :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 17, 2023, 02:58:17 AM
I know that trick! Gloves are a good thing. Keep telling self...gloves are a good thing!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 17, 2023, 02:59:18 AM
After welding for 10 years or so I finally got in the habit of picking up any hot metal or bricks I was working with only with forge tongs or water pump pliers / channelocks. If you only ever use the tongs or pliers it's much less likely you will get burnt and you may not need gloves as much. Just food for thought from a fellow fingerprint-compromised metal worker.  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 17, 2023, 03:46:07 AM
After welding for 10 years or so I finally got in the habit of picking up any hot metal or bricks I was working with only with forge tongs or water pump pliers / channelocks. If you only ever use the tongs or pliers it's much less likely you will get burnt and you may not need gloves as much. Just food for thought from a fellow fingerprint-compromised metal worker.  :Lol:
Only took 10 years to learn...  :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 17, 2023, 05:19:39 AM
Thanks for the commiseration!  I guess it's nice(?) to know I'm not the only one who's done that!   :embarassed:

So, for tonight’s update:

Today’s soldering session was mostly a success!  And I'm happy with that.  I'd say 90% good, but I'll still need one more go-round. (But who's counting, right? :))

The ring strap fixes (with the added copper shavings) came out beautifully, as did all of the top-side rivet solder jobs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190j-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2449.jpg)

Four of the five studs I soldered the outside of came out great. But one of them is a little questionable.  In this picture, you can see three of them – two handrail studs (upper ones, on the left and right) and one bell stud (lower one).  The left handrail stud seems to have missed a good fillet along the top and right edges (in this picture).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190j-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2453.jpg)

And I completely forgot to address the water inlet studs.  I was supposed to do the inside of these studs.  As you can see, no solder fillet there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190j-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2457.jpg)

So, I guess we all know what I’ll be doing tomorrow!

I think I’m getting pretty close on this subassembly.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 17, 2023, 01:42:49 PM
After welding for 10 years or so I finally got in the habit of picking up any hot metal or bricks I was working with only with forge tongs or water pump pliers / channelocks. If you only ever use the tongs or pliers it's much less likely you will get burnt and you may not need gloves as much. Just food for thought from a fellow fingerprint-compromised metal worker.  :Lol:
Only took 10 years to learn...  :Jester:
What can I say? "quality skills take time to develop"? or "ideas take a while to get through my skull, only 1 1/4" thick"  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 17, 2023, 02:53:38 PM
Who needs fingerprints anyway, Kim?

I once was doing some hardfacing with an oxy/acetylene torch at work. This is not a very mind engaging task. While getting the surface up to red heat, we would hold the rod nearby to get it pre-heated also. In the middle of this I got an itch on the back of my leg. Absent mindedly reached back with the rod to scratch it. The itch did go away, but ...

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 17, 2023, 04:58:00 PM
Who needs fingerprints anyway, Kim?

I once was doing some hardfacing with an oxy/acetylene torch at work. This is not a very mind engaging task. While getting the surface up to red heat, we would hold the rod nearby to get it pre-heated also. In the middle of this I got an itch on the back of my leg. Absent mindedly reached back with the rod to scratch it. The itch did go away, but ...

Youch!  :o

Sorta lit you right on fire, eh?  :Mad:

Hope there's no permanent reminder of that one, Ron.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 17, 2023, 05:05:49 PM
If you cast metal, and use a stir rod in the melt and then lay it down, and then take off a glove to attend to some small task for some reason, and then don't remember to put the glove back on, try to pick up the rod by the cooler end. Otherwise you're combining two stupid actions into a larger one.

I mean hypothetically.... .
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 17, 2023, 05:07:11 PM
And if hammering a nail or something on the anvil and you feel/see a mosquito buzzing around your head, put down the hammer before slapping at the bug!   :zap:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2023, 12:40:12 AM
Ouch!  You guys have have found lots of ways to hurt yourself!  :-\

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2023, 12:57:20 AM
First order of business – see if I could take care of those final solder joints.

Today I tried a slightly different method.  It’s based on what I’ve been doing for secondary re-heat work while the part is still hot.  I think it worked out well!

What I did was to get my solder pieces all ready – cut them the right length, and make them the right shape, but not apply them yet, just have them standing by, ready for use.  Then put a touch of flux on each area to be soldered.  After applying some heat and getting the part near temp (after the flux dries, then melts clear) I stopped the flame and used tweezers to grab the appropriate piece of pre-shaped solder, dip it in flux (I’m using Harris Black Flux) and apply it to the desired spot.  Then reapply the heat and watch the flux quickly go through its standard stages, turn clear, then the solder would flash.

The benefit of doing this is that the solder didn’t bounce around while the flux was boiling.  Once the part is hot, the flux-dipped solder adheres really well to the area and doesn’t move as much, or so it seemed to me.

Sometimes, I might nudge the solder a bit with the pointy Kozo stick to get it more precisely in the right place, but I didn’t find the solder to move around like it does frequently when I start with it on cold.

Also, since moving to the propane torch, I’ve been able to see what people mean with ‘moving the solder’ with the pointy Kozo stick.  This isn’t something that really seemed to do anything for me when using OA.  I think the solder flashed too quickly.  But with propane, I can reall see the solder and move it around some.  Nice technique now that I can do it.

Anyway, enough on technique.  Here’s after the final bit of soldering was completed. (Not that exciting of a picture, but I needed to show something after all this rambling!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190k-SteamDomeBase-1-DSC_2460.jpg)

After a few hours in the pickle, things look pretty good.

Here’s one of the previously offending water inlet studs.  Nice solder fill there now!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190k-SteamDomeBase-2-DSC_2496.jpg)

And on the handrail stud that didn’t get good coverage, it looks good now!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/190k-SteamDomeBase-3-DSC_2499.jpg)

So I’m going to declare victory over the boiler shell subassembly!  Yay!

On to the firebox.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2023, 01:09:48 AM
Chapter 23.14 – Bending the Outside Firebox Sheet

Next up is the Outside Firebox Sheet.  As the name might imply, it wraps around the outside of the firebox.  This will bend around in a modified U shape with the boiler shell and throat plate on one end and the backhead on the other.

After cutting a chunk out of the precious copper sheet, I needed to even up the sides.  I decided I could do this by holding it in the vise if I used some stiffener plates on either side of the sheet.  I used 4” wide stock that I happened to have (one piece of cold rolled steel and one piece of aluminum).  That worked fine for the first edge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-01-DSC_2462.jpg)

But for the second edge, I’d need some way to hold the sheet up a bit since my stiffener plates are 4" wide and the end size of the copper sheet is also 4" wide. And I had just the thing! Back when the Taig was my only mill, and Z-height and vise size was ALWAYS a problem, I had picked up these cute little tiny parallels.  They are only 1.5” long and 1/16” wide.  They go from 1/8” to 3/8” in 32nds.  I’ve found them quite handy over the years.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-02-DSC_2466.jpg)

So I used a pair of those under the 80 thou wide copper and it worked perfectly.  Only a bit of the sheet was exposed past its supportive friends, but the supports didn’t get hurt in the process!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-03-DSC_2469.jpg)

Then for the ends, I squared those up on the belt sander.  I positioned a temporary stop perpendicular to the platen and used that to make the end be a clean right angle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-04-DSC_2473.jpg)

Now, the observant among you might notice the feeler gauge sticking out from behind the platen on the left.  I discovered this was necessary because, while the platen is perfectly flat and even with the end of the rollers, when the belt comes around the top roller (or the left one in this picture, since the unit is tilted in this configuration) it overshoots the platen and takes a while before it settles down on the platen.  This caused the left side of the part I’m trying to square up, NOT to be square!  Look at this picture and you’ll see what I mean.  See how the sanding belt rides above the platen for a way?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-05-DSC_2476.jpg)

That shim was my ‘fix’ for this.  Now the belt rides on the flat platen for its entire length.  All I had to do after that was to re-square up my stop on the table and I was set. Worked very well after that.

Now, I marked up the part.  The line in the middle will be the top of the firebox and the lines on the left and right are where the transition from round part to straight part should be. Kozo provides specific locations for these lines.  Don’t ask me how he determined them, they’re listed in the book. I’m sure he used some kind of math or something :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-06-DSC_2480.jpg)

After annealing the sheet, I put it in a bending jig (also shown in Kozo’s book). It’s made from a piece of angle iron and a clamping bar.  Then you position the bend line 3/64” above the edge of the clamp, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-07-DSC_2482.jpg)

I then used various implements to put about a 30o bend in the sheet (again, specified by Kozo).  I used that little piece of sheet metal to help protect the copper from the corners of screwdrivers and other prying implements. (Toward the top of the pic behind the copper sheet)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-08-DSC_2488.jpg)

Next, Kozo has you stick a piece of copper underneath the angle and bend the plate back down.  This is supposed to be making the bend between the firebox and the rounded part of the boiler.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-09-DSC_2489.jpg)

To finish up the rounded part, I bent it around a 3.5” pipe.  I thought I took a picture of that, but apparently not.  Sorry.

I spent a lot of time playing with this.  I ended up having to move one of those sharp bends up just a tad, so I ended up annealing things a couple more times to work that out.  At that point, I was struggling to get a little more bend in one place when I realized it probably just needed to be annealed again.  This is where it’s at, just after another annealing.  And this is where I left it for today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191a-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-10-DSC_2492.jpg)

It’s not quite too shape, but I’m ALMOST there (he says optimistically).  I’m using the backhead as the form to shape it to.  And I’m getting close.  But it will take more work.  This is a pretty tricky part to shape.  Harder than most of the others have been so far.  But I’ll get there.  Just not today.

So that’s where I’ll pick up next time.

Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 18, 2023, 01:23:47 AM
New bag of popcorn...    :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 18, 2023, 01:50:26 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 18, 2023, 03:47:52 AM
Nice!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 18, 2023, 07:48:11 AM
Very neat and tidy.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2023, 05:04:04 PM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, Steve (vtSteam), and Steve (springcrocus)!  :cheers:

Very neat and tidy.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Regards, Steve
I'm glad it looks that way!  I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me.  But I'm getting there, never the less!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 18, 2023, 05:23:41 PM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, Steve (vtSteam), and Steve (springcrocus)!  :cheers:

Very neat and tidy.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Regards, Steve
I'm glad it looks that way!  I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me.  But I'm getting there, never the less!  :embarassed:

Kim
But trial and error with a lot of learning. And new tools.  All of which will be very useful when you start in on the next Kozo book!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2023, 05:28:21 PM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, Steve (vtSteam), and Steve (springcrocus)!  :cheers:

Very neat and tidy.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Regards, Steve
I'm glad it looks that way!  I can tell you it feels much more "trial and error" to me.  But I'm getting there, never the less!  :embarassed:

Kim
But trial and error with a lot of learning. And new tools.  All of which will be very useful when you start in on the next Kozo book!


 :lolb:
You're such a joker, Chris!

But the new tools ARE nice :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 18, 2023, 05:30:52 PM
Well, you don't want this locomotive to be lonely, you need the rest of the fleet!  With the latest one finishing in the magazine, I think there are six altogether in the family.    :stickpoke:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2023, 01:20:44 AM
Yes, and I'm sure my next one would go a little more quickly.

But no, my next project is going to be something else I believe.  Not saying I won't do another locomotive.  I'd love to do that!  So many to choose from!  But I believe I'll do something else for a while first  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2023, 01:31:53 AM
Today I continued forming the outside firebox sheet.  What helped me most was using the backhead as the template and just making an adjustment, then trying it with the backhead again.  And again. And again. And again…

I used the backhead as the form for both ends of the outside firebox sheet.

I also did some pounding with a soft mallet with the backhead held inside and holding it in half of one of those wood cradle clamps I'd made – kind of using it as a form.  But I didn’t beat it too hard, because I didn’t want to deform the backhead itself.  It did seem to help with the circular part – helped to close some of those gaps.

It took a while, but I got about as close as I think I can get.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-2-DSC_2505.jpg)

Here it is looking straight down from the top.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-1-DSC_2503.jpg)
There are a few gaps in there still.  They'll probably need to be filled with copper chips or copper wire during final assembly.  We’ll see when I get to that stage.

Using the backhead as a guide, I marked the length of the upright sections and proceeded to use the belt sander to trim each side to the correct length.  I had a little stack of packing material under the straight part to hold it level.  Then used the same guide that I had put in place yesterday.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-3-DSC_2508.jpg)

Next, I turned the manifold bushing from Bronze.  This one is threaded 3/8"-24.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-4-DSC_2511.jpg)

I’d already made the blowdown valve bushing since it was the same as one of the others I’d already made previously (and I made two of them then).

To drill the firebox sheet for the manifold bushing, I used some of the former blanks and some scrap pieces of copper (and other stuff) to pack in around the outside firebox sheet and gently clamped it in the mill vise. I then proceeded to indicate in the location for the bushing and drilled it to size.  I did this in many steps using small increments to ease the load on the drill.  The last thing I wanted was to have it grab in the copper and pull it out of the vise!  That would have been bad.  But taking small careful steps seemed to work just fine.  I’ve set the bushing that will fit in this hole right next to it for comparison.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-5-DSC_2517.jpg)

Then I took the setup and laid it on its side to drill for the blowdown valve bushing. The vise wasn’t really used for clamping in this setup.  It was only used to keep the firebox sheet square with the ways.  The actual clamping was provided by the strap clamp on top of the piece.  A scrap of steel sheet was used to help keep the clamp from marring the work.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-6-DSC_2520.jpg)

Here’s my final shot of the day showing the two bushings dry-fit in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191b-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-7-DSC_2523.jpg)

Next I’ll silver solder them in place.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2023, 02:18:55 AM
Fantastic.  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 19, 2023, 02:28:54 AM
Locomotive building as fine art. :ThumbsUp:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8DtyX6/Panorama.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 19, 2023, 02:36:59 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

That fella in the pic looks like he just priced some copper and silver solder!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2023, 02:38:49 AM
Locomotive building as fine art. :ThumbsUp:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8DtyX6/Panorama.jpg)


 :lolb:  Rather than The Scream, title should be Train Whistle!   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2023, 05:14:22 AM
Locomotive building as fine art. :ThumbsUp:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hG8DtyX6/Panorama.jpg)
I thought that was a picture of me as I was trying to silver solder my boiler! :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 19, 2023, 07:41:05 AM
Excellent work  :praise2:  :praise2:

+1 for The Scream
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 19, 2023, 04:38:39 PM
Looking good, Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 19, 2023, 04:42:20 PM
Looks good!

It should be clear why I made the comment some time back that the backhead needs to be carefully shaped to avoid depressions at the transition from straight edges to curved edges. It is easy to screw up, and it makes the wrapper fitting a lot more difficult.

DAMHIK

You did a great job!

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2023, 07:19:02 PM
Thanks Roger, Steve, and Gene!  :cheers:

It should be clear why I made the comment some time back that the backhead needs to be carefully shaped to avoid depressions at the transition from straight edges to curved edges. It is easy to screw up, and it makes the wrapper fitting a lot more difficult.

Yes, I certainly see what you were talking about now!
It's clearly not the ideal perfect fit, but  I think it's pretty close.  Nothing a little copper wire calking won't fix  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 12:30:40 AM
I started the day by setting up to solder the bushings into the outside firebox sheet.  I did the top one (manifold bushing) first, shooting the flame on the underside with the solder on the top.  I did two rings of solder around this bushing.  Probably overkill, but that’s my preference for this.  I started with one ring of solder in place then heated it up till it flashed.  Then I quickly dipped a second ring of solder in flux (which I had prepared ahead of time) and placed it over the bushing.  Lots of sizzling, and the flux went straight to the baked hard state.  But after a little more heat it melted went clear and that solder flashed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191c-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-01-DSC_2527.jpg)

Then with the part still hot, I turned it on its side and applied heat to the blowdown valve bushing.  I did the same procedure as before with two rings of solder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191c-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-02-DSC_2531.jpg)

Then popped it in the pickle for an hour or so.  Here’s what it looks like.  I’m quite pleased with those solder joints!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/191c-BendingOutsideFireboxSheet-03-DSC_2573.jpg)

I’m getting the hang of using the propane torch.  It working pretty well now that we’re friends. :)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 21, 2023, 12:36:59 AM
Your soldering skills are hot!   :Lol:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 12:38:01 AM
Chapter 23.15 – Silver Soldering the Outside Firebox Sheet

Next, we move on to attaching the outside firebox sheet and the boiler shell together.

Now here’s where those little curved parts that I cut off the ring strap come into play.  I'll be using those to make the “Y” shaped parts that help to seal things between the boiler shell, the outside firebox sheet, and the throat plate.

To make them Y-shaped, I need to cut a portion of those curved parts in half.  I mocked things up as well as I could and put a mark on how far the part needed to be split.  You can see my center line as well as my mark on how far to cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-1-DSC_2535.jpg)


Then I went to the scroll saw to split them:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-2-DSC_2540.jpg)

With that done, I did a little shaping, then set it up on the mill to drill a 1-72 tapping hole.  I drilled that through both parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-3-DSC_2543.jpg)

After drilling, I tapped the hole in the Y piece and opened up the hole in the shell to a close through-hole. Then attached them with 1-72 brass screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-4-DSC_2565.jpg)

Now, you know how butter-soft annealed copper is?  Of course, while doing all my fitting work, I dropped the outside firebox sheet. I tried to catch it but it made its way to the floor and bounced around a couple of times.  :hammerbash: Of course, it was all bent out of whack.  :facepalm: How frustrating.  But, it was soft, so I was able to bend it back to shape.  I used the same setup I had before to form it back into shape.  I didn’t show a picture of this the other day so I’ll do it now.   I found the cradle and the backhead both very helpful in re-forming.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-5-DSC_2554.jpg)

Now, being SUPER careful not to drop it again, I went about fitting the outside firebox sheet to the boiler shell with some 1-72 screws.  But I couldn’t figure out how to get the whole assembly under the mill while things were clamped together.  So in the end, I just used a cordless drill to make the screw holes (very slowly and carefully) drilling through with a 1-72 tapping size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-6-DSC_2562.jpg)

After disassembling the pieces, tapped the ring strap 1-72 and enlarged the outer hole to a clearance size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-7-DSC_2568.jpg)

And here it is, held together with a few brass screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-8-DSC_2576.jpg)

You can see the Y pieces sticking out here – I still need to fit the throat sheet in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-9-DSC_2580.jpg)

But that will be the next event.

Thanks for checking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 12:41:00 AM
Your soldering skills are hot!   :Lol:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Thanks Chris!  I'm getting a little more confident in my ability to work with the Sievert, that's for sure!  ;D
An excellent piece of equipment, that!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 21, 2023, 01:06:12 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Boiler's looking great Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on February 21, 2023, 02:58:46 AM
You are certainly pumping out the work Kim!! :ThumbsUp:, boiler is looking great, are you keeping an eye on hours spent making the boiler??

Thanks, Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 04:50:45 AM
Thanks Jeff and Gary!  :cheers:

...are you keeping an eye on hours spent making the boiler??

No, not really.  The closest I could say is I started it early December, so we're going on 3 months now.  That's 3 months, a few hours some days of the week (maybe most?  4-5 days/week or something like that) :)

That's the way I get to work these days.  When I have the time and motivation I get to play in my shop!  What could be better?  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 21, 2023, 08:03:51 AM
Kim, if you haven't yet soldered this, may I suggest that you replace your brass screws with bronze ones? If any of those screws are on or below the waterline, then you are risking them breaking down through de-zincification at some point in the future.

Other than that, coming on a treat.  :ThumbsUp:

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: bobh on February 21, 2023, 02:26:14 PM
Thanks for posting this, I'm learning a tremendous amount about silver soldering. A Question, does the repeated pickling do anything to the copper or bronze? If you pulled a bone head move and left in for say a week would it hurt anything? Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 21, 2023, 04:51:51 PM
A Question, does the repeated pickling do anything to the copper or bronze? If you pulled a bone head move and left in for say a week would it hurt anything? Bob

Repeated pickling will definitely etch the copper or bronze. I believe, however, it is mostly related to the removal of the heat-generated oxides, not the length of time in the acid.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on February 21, 2023, 05:05:12 PM
It's worth an experiment - dunk a measured scrap of copper in your brew and wait.   Citric acid, which Steve uses, will attack the copper so slowly that I wouldn't expect a problem after a week. 

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Kim, if you haven't yet soldered this, may I suggest that you replace your brass screws with bronze ones? If any of those screws are on or below the waterline, then you are risking them breaking down through de-zincification at some point in the future.

Other than that, coming on a treat.  :ThumbsUp:

Regards, Steve
Steve, Thanks for the suggestion!  I'm sure you're correct, that bronze would be the best here. Interestingly, Kozo specifically states to use 'brass screws' in his book here. So I'm sure hundreds of these boilers have been made using brass screws here.  And hopefully, most of them have worked successfully.

I have already used brass screws in the boiler to hold ribs in place. But those screws aren't really exposed to the inside of the boiler - they are surrounded by the copper rib.  So these screws are different - they will be exposed.  They should mostly be covered by silver solder, which might help...

Now I have to decide if I want to make screws out of bronze for this or not. The smallest bronze I have is 3/8" nominal - that would be a lot of waste to make a screw out of that...

The other mitigating factor is that this is really a showpiece build.  While it's going to be fully functional, I expect the run time over its life to be measured in minutes.

Hmm... dilemma, dilemma, dileimma ....
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 06:29:39 PM
Thanks for posting this, I'm learning a tremendous amount about silver soldering. A Question, does the repeated pickling do anything to the copper or bronze? If you pulled a bone head move and left in for say a week would it hurt anything? Bob

As Gene and Wilf have already stated, I don't think leaving it in a vat of citric acid for a week would do much to compromise things.  I haven't left it in the pickle for a week yet, but I have left the boiler shell in the pickle vat for many hours - several different sessions of 5-8 hours each.  I'm sure it's had a cumulative time of several days in the vat.  Yet, no detectable loss if thickness of the shell.  It started 0.080" thick, and I still measure that same 0.080" thou.  I'm using a tenths capable mic to measure, and I can't detect any loss.

Undoubtedly, it has eaten away some copper.  And given enough time (years?), it would probably eat away more.  But I don't think it's very fast.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 06:38:29 PM
OK, one more follow-up on the brass vs bronze screw dilemma...

I decided if I'm going to do this, I might as well do it right, eh?  At least as right as I know about. And knowing about the evils of using brass in a boiler, how can I go forward with that?

So, I just ordered some 3/16" diameter 544 bronze from McMaster-Carr for me to make some small screws from.   It should arrive late this week.  So we'll see what else I can do in the meantime. I won't be able to do any more soldering till it gets here. But there's got to be lots of other things I can do before then anyway, right?

Thanks for the prodding on this one, Steve (springcrocus).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 21, 2023, 06:49:21 PM
I assume this design uses lots of stay bolts around the firebox like his other designs do.  On the New Shay they were threaded on one end with a threaded washer-shaped piece that went on the end. Is this one the same setup? Probably a lot that can be done making up the batches of those while waiting...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on February 21, 2023, 09:44:16 PM
OK, one more follow-up on the brass vs bronze screw dilemma...
So, I just ordered some 3/16" diameter 544 bronze from McMaster-Carr for me to make some small screws from...

Kim

I made quite a lot of my screws from 1/4" diameter copper rod, recovered from old consumer units (fuse boards). The screws don't need structural strength, just the ability to hold things together until soldered. After that, they are redundant so copper is ideal. Copper rivets can be threaded, too, and a slot cut in the head.

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 11:38:12 PM
I assume this design uses lots of stay bolts around the firebox like his other designs do.  On the New Shay they were threaded on one end with a threaded washer-shaped piece that went on the end. Is this one the same setup? Probably a lot that can be done making up the batches of those while waiting...

Yes, exactly that, Chris.  I'll need to make 12 of those stay bolts as you describe, so that's definitely something that can fill my time :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
OK, one more follow-up on the brass vs bronze screw dilemma...
So, I just ordered some 3/16" diameter 544 bronze from McMaster-Carr for me to make some small screws from...

Kim

I made quite a lot of my screws from 1/4" diameter copper rod, recovered from old consumer units (fuse boards). The screws don't need structural strength, just the ability to hold things together until soldered. After that, they are redundant so copper is ideal. Copper rivets can be threaded, too, and a slot cut in the head.

Regards, Steve

Interesting point, Steve.  I could use copper, though that seems harder to thread.  I've got copper rivets, but they're bigger than the 1-72 holes that I've already drilled and tapped.  So at this point, I think I'll wait for the bronze to arrive. If I'd thought about, I probably could have picked a size that would fit the copper rivets I already have, but I didn't think about it!

Thanks for the great suggestions, Steve.  It's good to think about these things as I may want to do it again someday in another circumstance :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2023, 11:50:32 PM
Next, I need to attach the throat sheet.  But before I drill for any screws, I wanted to do one more check to make sure the throat sheet will be square to (perpendicular to?) the rest of the boiler.  This will be my last opportunity to change this, so I want to make sure it's right.

I decided the most important feature to line up on is the steam dome.  And in order to do this, I needed to file off the top of the steam pipe that has been sticking out of it for a few weeks now.  This wasn’t hard, I just had to be careful not to file the edges of the steam dome base while I was at it.  I did give the whole thing a skim though after I got the tube down.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-01-DSC_2582.jpg)

With that done, I could now stand the boiler on the flat steam dome base and make the throat sheet part of the firebox perfectly perpendicular to the plane of the steam dome. This did require some slight bending of the uprights of the outside firebox sheet.  I used the parallels standing on end as proxy squares and made sure that the straight portion of the firebox was parallel all the way up.  I did this both by eye and by sliding a carefully selected stack of parallels up and down between the copper side and the upright proxy square (parallel).  This wasn’t exact, of course, but I think it got me pretty close.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-02-DSC_2585.jpg)

Here’s another view after completing the alignment operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-03-DSC_2588.jpg)

Now that I’m satisfied that the throat sheet is aligned the way I want, I positioned it as shown in the drawings, sticking 1/8” proud of the front of the outside firebox sheet, and cozied up as close as possible to the boiler shell, and clamped it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-04-DSC_2601.jpg)

Here’s a shot looking down the barrel:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-05-DSC_2602.jpg)

Unfortunately, there are still gaps in there.  I tried to get rid of them, but they are just there. So I’ll be plugging them up with copper pieces before soldering.  Here’s a close-up of the last shot looking right at the joint between the throat sheet, boiler shell, and outside firebox sheet.  The screw may close it a tad, but there will still be a substantial gap that needs to be plugged.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-06-DSC_2603.jpg)

And looking from a slightly different angle you can see even another, bigger gap.  This will have to be addressed too, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-07-DSC_2610.jpg)

I used my cordless drill to make these screw holes, just as I did the other ones.  Then I took the Y piece out, tapped it 1-72, and drilled the hole through the outside firebox sheet and the ring strap to be a close fit through hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-08-DSC_2613.jpg)

I put three more screws in the same way.

Here’s another shot highlighting the numerous gaps that I will need to address.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-09-DSC_2616.jpg)

Now, to leave on a more positive note; it’s really starting to look like a boiler now! I’m excited about that.  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/192b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheet-10-DSC_2622.jpg)

And to be honest, the gaps don’t worry me that much (yet).  I was always planning to caulk the gaps with copper shavings or wire.  And I figure it will take me a firing or two to get things soldered adequately before I go on.

And of course, I won’t be soldering this up till after I make ten 1-72 screws out of bronze to replace those brass screws that are currently holding things together!

Thanks for all your helpful advice and for following along with my build,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 22, 2023, 02:00:51 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 22, 2023, 12:21:22 PM
Nice progress so far Kim  :ThumbsUp:  and it really starts to look like the central part of a Locomotive  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2023, 05:10:58 PM
Thanks Jeff and Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 22, 2023, 07:57:56 PM
That's a lot of complicated construction and you think IC engines might be difficult. Following along, learning and enjoying  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2023, 10:11:17 PM
That's a lot of complicated construction and you think IC engines might be difficult. Following along, learning and enjoying  :)  :)  :)

Yeah, actually, I think they are!  They sure look it to me!  Especially working file injection!   :o ;D

Thanks for following along, Roger!   :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2023, 10:16:00 PM
While I’m waiting for material to turn a bunch of 1-72 bronze screws I wanted to move on with other things.  The next several steps all require brass screws for holding things while soldering.  So I’m going to just go ahead and do as Chris suggested and make the side stay bolts now.

So, welcome to the stay bolt interlude…

This shows a picture of the stay bolts and nuts (on the left side) and where they are going (on the right side).  And I need 12 of each.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193a-SideStayBolts-1-DSC_2635.jpg)

I started with 1/2" bronze (932), brought it down to the outside dimension of the head, then took some down to 0.190”, the size of a #10 bolt.  Then tapped the end 10-32.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193a-SideStayBolts-2-DSC_2624.jpg)

And parted it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193a-SideStayBolts-3-DSC_2626.jpg)

Not difficult parts to turn.  It’ll just take a while to do 12 of them.

Here’s how far I got today.  I turned 6.  These still need to have the top side faced and a 30o taper added.  But that will come after I complete the other half dozen of them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193a-SideStayBolts-4-DSC_2631.jpg)

Just trying to keep the build moving forward!
Kim

PS The staybolt section continues on Reply 2616 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg265066.html#msg265066).
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 23, 2023, 12:21:54 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Nice to see the solid red gold being made into great lookin staybolts!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2023, 09:42:31 PM
Thanks Jeff!

Today I made another 6 stay bolts (just like yesterday).

Then I flipped them around in an appropriately sized collet, took a skim off the face to get rid of the center nib and even things out, and cut a 30o angle on the side of the head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193b-SideStayBolts-1-DSC_2638.jpg)

And here they are, all finished.  Apparently, I can’t count, because when I was all done there were 13 of them, not 12.  Ah well. Good to have an extra, right? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193b-SideStayBolts-2-DSC_2642.jpg)

While that isn’t much, it’s something.  And it was cold out today!  It’s afternoon and still on 29F here.  We got 7” of snow last night!  And they had 11” at Portland airport!  That’s a record around here!  It’s expected to dip down into the teens tonight, so not much melting till at least tomorrow or Saturday.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193b-SideStayBolts-3-DSC_2645.JPG)

I wouldn’t have been doing any soldering today anyway!  And I worry for the UPS man if he tries to deliver anything today.  I hope he doesn’t.  I can wait till it clears up.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 23, 2023, 09:45:08 PM
Excellent work on the stay bolts!  Maybe your shop elves are getting more helpful and made the extra one for you?  Keep feeding them cookies as bribes...   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2023, 09:57:53 PM
Excellent work on the stay bolts!  Maybe your shop elves are getting more helpful and made the extra one for you?  Keep feeding them cookies as bribes...   :Lol:

Could be, Chris.  It usually seems to go the other way.  I make a dozen and only end up with 11!  Tax to the shop gnomes.  This time it worked out the opposite way!

Guess you're right.  I may need to feed them more cookies!  That should help!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 24, 2023, 12:56:10 AM
Nice progress Kim!
Kind of unusual weather for the Portland area?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2023, 04:49:30 AM
Nice progress Kim!
Kind of unusual weather for the Portland area?

Dave
Thanks, Dave!  :cheers:

Yes!  Very unusual weather.   We get snow sometimes, but seldom do we get this much, and seldom do we see temperatures in the teens.  That's COLD! This is Idaho weather! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2023, 10:37:32 PM
Today I made the ‘nut’ side of the stay bolts.

Using the same 1/2" bronze, I turned it down a length to the same diameter as the head (13/32”) then drilled and tapped that entire length 10-32.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193c-SideStayBolts-1-DSC_2650.jpg)

Then using the 1/16” Warner grooving/parting tool, I tapered the end at 30o, just like the head of the stay bolts, parted the nut off, and repeated that 3 more times to get 4 nuts out of 5/8” of bronze.  Then I did it all again… and again…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193c-SideStayBolts-2-DSC_2653.jpg)

And after a bit of deburring and cleanup, I had 13 nuts.  This time I intentionally made 13, just to match the number of bolts I had - it just seemed karmically correct.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193c-SideStayBolts-3-DSC_2656.jpg)

And here’s a picture of them all joined together, just to prove they fit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193c-SideStayBolts-4-DSC_2658.jpg)


I just received some extra-easy silver solder via UPS.  Guess they’re still delivering in this inclement weather.  I picked it up from Rio Grand, as Chris had suggested.  Wow!  Their silver solder is about half the price of what I’ve been getting off Amazon. And I thought that was a pretty decent price compared to what it seems to be going for on Amazon.  Assuming their solder actually works (and Chris has proved that it does) I’ll be making all my future silver solder purchases through Rio Grand!  Thanks for the tip, Chris!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 25, 2023, 12:10:11 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Great looking stays and stay nuts Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2023, 12:27:19 AM
I want to be there when you are assembling the firebox, and see the look on your face when you try and figure out where that extra stay bolt was supposed to be installed!   :Jester:

Seriously, excellent work!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2023, 04:47:30 AM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

I want to be there when you are assembling the firebox, and see the look on your face when you try and figure out where that extra stay bolt was supposed to be installed!   :Jester:

Yeah, not so far fetched.  :headscratch:
Or after I solder it all together I'll get really scared because I'll think I forgot one!  :o

 :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2023, 10:03:03 PM
Chapter 23.16 – Firebox Sheet

Still waiting for my 3/16” Bronze rod to arrive.  I’m sure our WWW (Wonderful Winter Weather) has contributed to the shipping time here.  But it will come when it will come.

So today in my abbreviated shop time I cut the materials for the firebox sheet.  This, as the name implies, will be the sheet that goes around the inside of the firebox, wrapping around the firebox back sheet on one side and the firebox tube sheet on the other.

This was cut from 0.080” sheet copper, trimmed to size on the mill, then marked up to show the center line – the top center of the crown.  The two additional lines are where the ribs will be attached.  I thought it might be easier to locate them while flat.  Kozo specifies the ribs to be 30o off from center on either side. I did some calculations to determine their locations and marked a line on either side of center.  I considered drilling screw holes for the ribs while this sheet is still flat but I worried that putting holes in it would affect its ability to bend uniformly.  So we’ll do that later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/194a-FireboxSheet-1-DSC_2661.jpg)

Next, I cut some 1/8” copper for the ribs, trimmed them to size on the mill, and took off the corners to make them look pretty.  I did that op on the belt sander and thought I was pretty clever, so I showed a picture of it!  ^-^
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/194a-FireboxSheet-2-DSC_2667.jpg)

And here are the ribs and the Firebox sheet, waiting to be formed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/194a-FireboxSheet-3-DSC_2669.jpg)

My next step for this will be to anneal the copper sheet and bend it into the U shape that will fit snugly over the firebox back sheet and the firebox tube sheet.  But that operation is going to have to wait till it’s warmer out.  It was just TOO cold for me to want to put up the garage door.  Call me a weenie if you want, but it’s just too cold for me!  :paranoia:

Hope things warm up soon!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 25, 2023, 10:07:52 PM
I'm waiting for the warmer weather too, to get out and do some soldering! 

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2023, 10:12:57 PM
I'm waiting for the warmer weather too, to get out and do some soldering! 

 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Don't you know it!  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 26, 2023, 07:45:20 AM
Hi Kim, your weather is making it into our news broadcasts. It must be extraordinary.
But I think you still have enough work in the warm workshop.
I am still looking forward to interesting reports from boiler construction.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 26, 2023, 04:11:42 PM
Thanks Michael!  :cheers:

US weather making international news, eh?  Not really something I strive for, but hey, I'll try to enjoy the lime light while I can!  :Lol:

Yes, still plenty to do. And it looks like it might be warming up enough this week that I'll be able to open up to use my torch.  I don't like to use any torch without good ventilation! Seems like a bad idea, you know?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 26, 2023, 10:07:17 PM
I've been out of the shop for a week, just too cold, or I'm out plowing on tractor. Glad to be able to at least see others' work. Kim those studs look professional, shiny! Use the extra one for a cuff link!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:   :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on February 27, 2023, 03:51:52 AM
12L14 for the wheels (and other parts)!!!

I shall (knowingly) hijack part of this wonderful thread to say that I, too, am a-building the Hiraoka A3 switcher.

Like several others, I don't expect it to run, but I've been following "Blondihacks"(Quinn) on her boiler-first construction.

That's it...for now.

-Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 27, 2023, 04:44:03 AM
Thanks Steve and Jim! :cheers:

So, Jim, are you going to post your build here? I'd love to see what you're doing, and how.  There are a couple of A3 builds going on here now. I'd love to see yours too!

Steve, I was telling my wife about you having to plow your drive frequently just to keep up with the snow!  It was making us feel better as we sat here, snowed in for a few days. We're not used to that kind of weather.  And frankly, I'm not really interested in becoming used to it! You're a real pioneer!  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on February 27, 2023, 02:14:59 PM
Kim, it's actually kind of fun, if it isn't building up too high. If you like engines, a '51 John Deere M has a familiar sweet sound, 2 big cylinders firing at 90 degrees. Starts instantly in the coldest weather with a pull choke, and on 6 volts positive ground. It's done everything asked of it for 20 years with me, built my house with it, pulling logs out of the woods to the sawmill. It'll push a snow bank up as high as I sit, and that's pretty high on an M. That's what eighteen 1951  horsepower will do.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 27, 2023, 04:35:40 PM
Steve, I can understand you very well. I also like the sound of an old two-cylinder engine.
Especially my diesel engine tractor built in 1961. Difficult to start in the cold though.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on February 27, 2023, 07:13:53 PM
Kim and vtsteam and everyone who stopped by:

Thank you for all the warm welcomes!

Apologies for the tardiness of this reply; I see that Kim answered my post shortly after I posted it.

I have trouble with anything digital - including cameras, cell phones,  and computers - and the steam locomotive pictures might be an 'expect 'em IF you see 'em' kind of thing.

(Also, as I told a friend of mine, 'interest' in a subject may be a case of just 'curiosity', so I don't expect the locomotive to be running  any time soon.)

(I also have 4 Allis-Chalmers tractors (none running) - plus two chickens along with the items mentioned in the introduction.  No green tractors for this guy....sorry, vtsteam!)

-Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 27, 2023, 09:59:46 PM
I have trouble with anything digital - including cameras, cell phones,  and computers - and the steam locomotive pictures might be an 'expect 'em IF you see 'em' kind of thing.

Well, if you need some help with pictures, there are several threads around that deal with that. Or just ask for help in Chatterbox or something and someone will help you out.

I've heard that some people have had good luck posting photos from their phone easily with TapaTalk (Tapatalk is a forum app that works with our forum here (and many others)).  I've not used it myself much, but it might be an easy way to post pictures if that works for you. Just a thought.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 01, 2023, 11:46:47 PM
After about a week of weather-related delay, my 3/16” bronze rod finally arrived!

So, out to the shop to make some bronze screws!

Not a lot to them:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-1-DSC_2672.jpg)

And after several fun hours of screw making, here are my results:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-2-DSC_2676.jpg)

I’d not used 544 Bronze before, but this stuff turned quite nicely and took threads well.  Interestingly (to me at least) it wasn’t oversized like the 932 bronze. It actually came at the specified diameter.

I’d wanted to solder the outside firebox sheet today, but I just didn’t have enough time to get into that today. So that’ll have to be tomorrow’s activity.  But I did try a few of the new screws in the assembly to prove that they fit (the two on the left side).  You’ll note I chose not to bother to take the pip off the top or to cut a slot in the top of the screw.  I’m just planning to use pliers to tighten them down.  They are nothing more than hold-downs for a soldering job.  Once they’ve filled their function their heads will be filed off anyway, so why bother to profile them or put a slit in them that I don’t need? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195a-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-3-DSC_2679.jpg)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 01, 2023, 11:59:25 PM
Screws look very nice, Kim, and it makes perfect sense not to finish the heads off, to me.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 02, 2023, 12:29:15 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Nice job on the bronze screws Kim! The joints look good. Hope the soldering's a breeze!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 02, 2023, 04:34:42 AM
Thanks Steve and Jeff!  :cheers:

We'll see how the soldering goes tomorrow...  :???:
 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 12:37:09 AM
With my fancy Bronze screws made, I think I’m ready to silver solder the outside firebox sheet onto the boiler shell.  This is a large join with many little pieces.  It took me a while to get it all assembled, fluxing joints as I went.  I also spent some time caulking some of the known gaps with copper wire and/or shavings.  You can see copper wire where the throat sheet joints the boiler shell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-1-DSC_2681.jpg)

I then added flux dipped solder (Harris black flux) all around the many mating surfaces.  I put a double amount around the throat sheet connection. Then I stuffed some rock wool into the middle of the boiler to help protect the delicate little steam pipe there (I just remembered that I’d gotten some of that specifically for this purpose!  Duh…) and set it up on the hearth for soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-2-DSC_2685.jpg)

I used the 32mm tip for this.  That’s one size bigger than I’ve been using.  I don’t know if it if was needed, but I’d been feeling that the 30mm was struggling with the job and I had a LOT of copper heat sink sticking out into the cold winter air.  Anyway, it seemed to work.  I wouldn’t say it overwhelmed the problem, but it was certainly successful. So I’m saying that’s a win.  Working around the firebox sheet I was able to get each area to flow.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-3-DSC_2692.jpg)

After it cooled, I took a couple of pictures before pickling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-4-DSC_2704.jpg)

Here’s an up-close of the Y-joint.  I think the areas I caulked with copper are pretty good. But there’s a little hole between the Y piece and the throat sheet where there’s still a hole you can see through – on both sides. :( So clearly there will be a second soldering session for this area. Not that I ever doubted there would be, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-5-DSC_2697.jpg)

After several hours in the pickle, here’s what it looks like:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-6-DSC_2723.jpg)

Clearly need some additional copper caulking in places on the inside:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-7-DSC_2727.jpg)

Here’s an outside look at the throat sheet.  It actually came out with a nice solder fillet along most of the length, though there are some gaps at the ends, and along the straight edges between it and the outside firebox sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-9-DSC_2733.jpg)

And a few gaps around the circumference between the shell and the outside firebox sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/195b-SilverSolderingOutsideFireboxSheetPt2-8-DSC_2730.jpg)

All in all, not bad for the first round.  It will clearly take another round of soldering.  Maybe two.  We’ll see how the next one goes.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 12:43:58 AM
While the outside firebox sheet/boiler shell was in the pickle, I moved back to working on the firebox sheet (i.e. the inside firebox sheet).

First, I annealed that sheet, then I bent it around a 2” mandrel to get the basic U shape, then I used the rear and tube firebox sheets as forms to shape the sheet around.  I got it pretty close, but it’s going to take a little more work, but it’s close.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196a-FireboxSheetCont-1-DSC_2710.jpg)

At this point, I took the two ribs that I’d made before and drilled some holes for 1-72 tapping.  Unfortunately, I broke the tip of my #52 drill in the first hole I started to drill. This really worried me, but I was able to get it out using a punch to crack it into pieces and dig them out.  But I mangled the hole in the process. So I moved the holes on that end inboard by 1/8”.  Luckily, I had another #52 drill so was able to make the holes.  I was pretty nervous while drilling those holes, drilled them slowly and carefully, with plenty of cutting oil.  I think my #52 drill had just been used enough it was dull and grabbed the copper and broke.  But the new one (nice and sharp) worked without a hitch.  As you can see, I put the two ribs in the mill vise side by side to drill them in one operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196a-FireboxSheetCont-2-DSC_2713.jpg)

After tapping those holes, I moved on to drilling the through holes in the firebox sheet.  As I was dry-fitting the ribs something just didn’t look right.  I had carefully marked the position of the ribs while the sheet was still flat, just to make things easier now. Turns out, I messed up my calculations for the location of the ribs!  Upon reviewing my notes I saw that I used the wrong diameter for the arc.  It is actually 2.375”, but I used 3.75”  Just dropped the 2 (and moved a decimal place).  Oops.  Anyway, I fixed that and then went on to drill the holes.  This wasn’t the most secure setup, but it worked for these small holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196a-FireboxSheetCont-3-DSC_2717.jpg)

With that done, I temporarily screwed things together to make sure they fit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196a-FireboxSheetCont-4-DSC_2720.jpg)

I think I’ll solder this in place before I go and fit the rear firebox sheet in place.  But this has been a long shop day and I’m ready to go in.  That’ll be for another time.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 03, 2023, 12:46:41 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

First round of solder looks great! On the areas where things didn't flow 100% did you add any extra flux during the heat? It sometimes livens up the flow again, if you add a bit.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 03, 2023, 12:47:29 AM
Well done, Kim, it's coming along great and really starting to look like a locomotive boiler. All your careful prep work is paying off! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 12:54:22 AM
Thanks Jeff and Ron!  :cheers:

On the areas where things didn't flow 100% did you add any extra flux during the heat? It sometimes livens up the flow again, if you add a bit.  :cheers:

No, I didn't. I should have.  That's a good suggestion. It would have been a smart thing to do...

I considered trying to do more flux/solder/heat but it had already been a fairly lengthy heating session, and things were pretty ugly and it was hard to tell what was good and what was bad. So I decided to just assume I was doing a second round and stop it there.  Then I could see where to caulk and where to add more etc.

I also found one spot on the vertical part of the throat sheet, where the solder had slid off the joint and just melted in a puddle below.  Unfortunately, I didn't even see that, or I'd have fixed it right there.  I did fix it in one spot, but clearly, not there.  I have been soldering with the lights off, using a flashlight to check things from time to time, but I think I may try doing it with the lights on next time.  I can tell how things are progressing just by the state of the flux so I shouldn't need to see the 'red glow' of the metal (in theory).  I think that might help.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 03, 2023, 01:05:29 AM
Right in the heart of the soldering fun, going well overall!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 03, 2023, 04:22:24 AM
It's really shaping up, Kim.  Good job!  I have no doubts that you'll get sorted well.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 05:13:51 AM
Thanks Chris and Todd!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 03, 2023, 04:54:51 PM
Looks complicated however you are getting there  :)  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 03, 2023, 05:32:21 PM
Kim this project will tune you soldering skills plenty. You doing great and learning the pit falls along the way. …..nice work bud…. :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
Thanks Roger and Don!  :cheers:

Yes, Don, I'm certainly gaining confidence with my silver soldering.  Though I'm still finding the whole boiler thing pretty daunting, I'm just trying to take it one step at a time.  If I do each step, pretty soon I'll have a boiler. Or so I try and tell myself!  :embarrassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 03, 2023, 10:59:27 PM
This morning I spent a good two hours caulking all the nooks and crannies that I could find around the outside firebox sheet and the boiler shell.  It’s not as noticeable in the pictures as I thought it would be.  You can see the stuffage in the Y-joiner corner though. But sections of almost every joint had some copper caulking applied.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-1-DSC_2737.jpg)

I even wedged a 28 gauge wire around the joint between the shell and the firebox sheet. You can barely see it in the upper right in this picture.  Also, quite a bit of stuffing was done around the throat sheet.  I don’t know that all of this was strictly needed, but I want to make REALLY sure that all the solder joints are solid.  This helps give me some confidence.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-2-DSC_2738.jpg)

Then over to the hearth to melt the solder.  This time, I did it laying on its side, in stages (rather than on end, like the first time).  I applied flux-dipped solder bits to the inside of the lower joints, and the outside of the upper joints.  Appropriately sized loops of solder were placed around the tops of the upper screws, and the tails of the lower screws.  I pre-made a whole bunch of these loops (both sizes) because after flowing all the solder that I placed in this position, I rotated the boiler some and placed flux-dipped solder on the joints facing up in that position (including both ends of the screws of course).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-3-DSC_2743.jpg)

After 4-5 repositionings, reapplications of flux and solder, and heat heating, I had completed a full circuit.  This took close to an hour! And I THINK I got everything, but we’ll see.  It seemed pretty good from what I could tell in this black mess.  So off to the pickle bin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-4-DSC_2746.jpg)

Next, I fluxed and soldered the inside firebox sheet ribs.  I did this one in only two positions – right side up to solder the outside of the ribs, and upside down to make sure the heads of the screws got soldered well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-5-DSC_2749.jpg)

After it cooled, I plunked it in the pickle bath along with the rest of the boiler.  Then I remembered I wanted a picture of it, so I fished it out.  That’s why it’s kind of wet here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196b-FireboxSheetCont-6-DSC_2752.jpg)

Later I’ll check and see how they look after a nice long pickle soak.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 04, 2023, 12:54:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2023, 05:00:42 AM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:

Here are the parts after several hours of pickle and a scrub/rinse.  And I’m pretty pleased!

The inside joints look quite good, all the way around!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196c-FireboxSheetCont-1-DSC_2758.jpg)

Here’s the outside from one side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196c-FireboxSheetCont-2-DSC_2760.jpg)

And from the other side. The second and third screws up from the bottom (both right at the three-way joint) didn’t get the greatest silver solder coverage.  I may need to do those two again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196c-FireboxSheetCont-3-DSC_2763.jpg)

And here are the ribs on the firebox sheet.  They came out looking great!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196c-FireboxSheetCont-4-DSC_2766.jpg)

And the inside so you can see the screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196c-FireboxSheetCont-5-DSC_2770.jpg)

I’m pleased with the firebox sheet.  Those two screws on the outside firebox sheet joint may need to be hit again. But I’m getting pretty close!

Thanks for looking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 04, 2023, 06:16:13 AM
It's really coming together, Kim. Looking great!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on March 04, 2023, 07:58:44 AM
Looking good.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 04, 2023, 11:49:07 AM
Looks like you had the solder flowing very well Kim :ThumbsUp:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 04, 2023, 04:01:50 PM
WooHoo! Coming out of the pickle with a good result is almost like unwrapping a gift, isn't it? Well done kim.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2023, 04:43:37 PM
Thank you Todd, Steve, Per, and Ron!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 04, 2023, 07:52:13 PM
Kim everything is looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Thanks Dave!  Appreciate the vote of confidence!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2023, 10:45:06 PM
Today I did one more round of soldering on the outside firebox sheet joints.  I caulked a bit around the throat with some copper shavings and re-did a couple of screws that didn’t seem to have enough solder.  I don’t know if I missed those yesterday in my lengthy soldering session, or if the solder fell off before it flashed or what. But I decided, in my attempt to be overly conservative, to add a bit more to those places.

Here we are at the hearth, ready to make an offering to the silver soldering gods.  I hope they are pleased.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_2772.JPG)

And the obligatory after shot.  I did this short session in one position, though I did add a bit more flux-dipped solder to one area before I stopped.  But still, a comparatively short soldering session (as they have been going at least).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_2775.JPG)

After it cooled, I let it swim in the citric acid for a bit (maybe an hour?) then fished it out for a quick picture.  Looks like those two screw heads are well covered now, along with the spot on the throat sheet that I’d done the caulking job on (the left side in this picture).  It's now back in the pickle for a longer bath.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_2781.JPG)

It’s clear I’ve used more solder than is necessary. And this last session was probably not needed at all.  But I want to be sure that anything that causes the least question in my mind is addressed now.  Hopefully, this will pay off eventually.  If I ever get past building this boiler, that is!

That was about it for today.  A short shop day because there was a meeting of a local group that focuses on computer-aided engineering work. It mostly deals with 3D printing and CNC, but the group covers a very wide range of topics!  Fun meeting, but I didn’t get much else in the shop done today.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 04, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Excellent!  And better a bit too much solder than not enough.     :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 05, 2023, 12:09:08 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 05, 2023, 02:45:39 AM
Making good progress for sure!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2023, 05:44:12 AM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, and Todd :)

I just pulled it out of the pickle after several more hours of soaking and it really looks nice! It's very easy to see the good solder fillets everywhere.  I'm quite pleased with the progress so far.

It's funny how I always feel so excited about it once I get to the point where I've finally gotten good solder joints all around (after multiple attempts). But when I'm standing there with new parts to solder together the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) really looms large.  But I just keep plodding along and eventually I get it up to snuff and feel in charge again   ;D

I'm sure better solderers can do these large joints like this in a single go.  But not me.  For these big joins, it seems to always take me multiple sessions to get an acceptable fillet along all the joining surfaces.  I'm sure some of that is due to my soldering abilities but I think more of it is due to the size and roughness of the joints themselves.  Try as I might, I just can't get really tight fits around these long formed joints.   But what I don't have in ability, I am trying to make up for in determination.  That's my standard MO.  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 05, 2023, 02:08:52 PM
I think that the more you practice soldering or welding, you develop an intuition about what to do. For example on the boiler's Y joints - the next time you see that type of joint you will likely remember what went right and what did not, and likely get it in one go. Same with any workshop operation really, but particularly with ops involving fire, molten metal, and solid metal. You need to be "tuned in" doing those, and that comes with doing lots and lots and lots of the ops, which you are!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 05, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
On my first boiler I had to do some similar packing of flattened copper wire in some places. Others I gave a few taps with the forming hammer to close up the gaps. Later boilers I got a bit better on the fit and didn't need much of that. Practice practice practise...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 05, 2023, 03:09:19 PM
I understand the FUD part, Kim, quite well. You always succeed though, and keep progressing.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Jeff, Chris, and Steve :)  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2023, 12:23:04 AM
With the outside firebox sheet well soldered, I’m now back to the inside firebox sheet (Kozo just calls it the “firebox sheet” but I need to prepend ‘inside’ to help differentiate it in my mind).

The next goal is soldering the rear firebox sheet (the one with the fire door) to the inside firebox sheet.  I’ll be using some of those bronze screws to hold it in place during soldering. The formed end sheets for the firebox are supposed to protrude from the edge of the side by 1/8”.  To help hold things in position while I drilled the screw holes, I used some 1/8” wide parallels – one to provide the spacing, and the other to clamp against.  I also clamped a wood block inside to help hold the rear sheet up against the parallel. And another one to hold the end sheet against the top of the firebox sheet.  Hopefully, the picture will make it more clear:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-1-DSC_2787.jpg)

Here’s another angle so you can see the parallel stack – the one on the right is held against the edge of the side sheet to provide the 1/8” reference, and the one on the left (a bit taller) sticks out below so the formed end sheet can be pressed up against it by the wood block that you can see back there in the dark on the right. The lowest clamp here is the one holding the formed end sheet to the top of the crown of the firebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-2-DSC_2783.jpg)

With the two parts clamped together like this, I carefully drilled a 1-72 tap-sized hole through both sheets, tapped the formed sheet, and drilled out the hole in the firebox sheet to a close through hole, then attached it with a screw.  I did exactly the same to the other side and then again to the top.  Here’s a shot of that setup:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-3-DSC_2797.jpg)

And finally, the rear firebox sheet is now held in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-4-DSC_2800.jpg)

After repeating this process for the other formed end (the firebox tube sheet), I marked the exact length the sides of the inside firebox sheet then took it to the belt sander to bring the sides to the final length:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-5-DSC_2805.jpg)

And here’s my parting shot showing both formed ends attached to the inside firebox sheet.  Note that I made the holding screws have slightly different locations on the two formed ends.  This will help make sure that assemble it the same way I’ve been fitting it together!  While the firebox sheet is still theoretically symmetrical, I don’t want to chance it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196e-FireboxSheetCont-6-DSC_2810.jpg)

Now, I won’t be soldering the firebox tube sheet yet!  That will be a later step.  I’ll be soldering the boiler tubs into it first.  But this seemed like a good time to get the positioning holes in place. It seemed easier to do it now than after it has a bunch of tubes sticking out the end making the part all unbalanced and difficult to hold.

That’s my update for today. Tomorrow I should be soldering the rear firebox sheet into the firebox assembly.

Thanks for checking on my glacial progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 06, 2023, 12:56:37 AM
You've been busy today! The elf apartment house, um, I mean firebox is looking great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 06, 2023, 01:19:52 AM
Awesome work, Kim.  Sure makes a lot of sense to get this set up ahead of time.  It will make assembly easier down the road.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 06, 2023, 01:26:05 AM
I can see it now - couple of Kim's shop elves talking to a TV reporter after the first fire-up - "That's the first time I ever saw an eviction notice served while it was on fire! and then he tossed in some kindling!"  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 06, 2023, 01:49:29 AM
One thing that you find is that every new project is another learning one and you will get even better and better. But to say the experts don’t have to do it more then once is just no so. Yes you gain with experience but you will still have times it just don’t go as plan. You’re doing excellent don’t under rate yourself. We all get that pit in the stomach that it may not go right I don’t care how experienced you are.

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2023, 04:46:17 AM
Thanks Chris, Todd, Jeff and Don!  :cheers:

Really appreciate the comments and the encouragement!

One thing that you find is that every new project is another learning one and you will get even better and better. But to say the experts don’t have to do it more then once is just no so. Yes you gain with experience but you will still have times it just don’t go as plan. You’re doing excellent don’t under rate yourself. We all get that pit in the stomach that it may not go right I don’t care how experienced you are.
I know you're right Don.  But it's nice to hear other people say it!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 06, 2023, 08:11:49 PM
I'm enjoying your boiler build  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  and as you said a big project is lots of little projects joined together  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on March 06, 2023, 11:02:19 PM
Nice progress Kim, cant wait to see it in steam!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 12:26:40 AM
Thanks Roger!

Nice progress Kim, cant wait to see it in steam!
Thank you Sam!  It'll probably be a few years yet before that happens! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 12:29:43 AM
This morning I assembled the firebox back sheet to the firebox sheet, fluxed it up, did my best to caulk the small gaps with some copper wire, then went and silver soldered them together.

This was a longer solder session.  I placed solder on the inside all around the joint and around the inside part of the holding screws, then heated that with the opening facing upward.  While still hot, I flipped it over and placed solder around the outside of the joint and the outside screw heads flashed those.

I gave it some inspection while still hot on the hearth and decided I didn’t like the fillets around the screw heads.  They just didn’t look good.  So added some flux-dipped solder to one of the screw heads with that side positioned upward and flashed that. Then rotated the part and repeated two more times for the other two screw heads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/196f-FireboxSheetCont-1-DSC_2813.jpg)

With that, it passed my ‘post flame’ inspection so I let it cool, then it went in the pickle.

Hopefully, I didn’t ruin any of the other joints in the process. I used medium-grade solder on this but apparently I’d accidentally used easy-grade on the rib joints.  Should I re-do the rib joints with medium?  Or is there still a good chance they survived?  Any general thoughts on mixing medium on top of easy-grade solder?  Problems there?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 12:35:48 AM
Chapter 23.17 – Silver Soldering the Tubes

Now it’s on to the boiler tubes!

First, I had to cut the tubes to length.  The tubes were made from 3/4" OD, 5/8” ID copper tube.  I considered cutting it in the band saw but trying to cut a round grabby thing on the band saw just seemed like trouble. So I decided to try using the cut-off tool on the lathe, and that worked pretty well.  It made it quite easy to cut the parts directly to length. And they all came out within a couple thou of each other, which is plenty good for these parts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-1-DSC_2816.jpg)

With the three tubes cut, I had to figure out some way to hold them in the correct position for soldering to the firebox tube sheet.  This is the setup I ended up using.  The square and parallels are just there for the initial setup.  I moved them prior to applying any flame.  But I wanted to try and get the tubes mounted as squarely as possible. I’m sure they will be quite soft and able to move a bit after they are attached, but of course, I’d like to leave that for fine-tuning!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-2-DSC_2819.jpg)

Now with the squares and parallels removed, and flux and solder rings added, I went for it with the torch. (Note the stack of round speaker magnets I was using on top to add weight – we’ll come back to those later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-3-DSC_2823.jpg)

After flashing all the solder my inspection showed that there wasn’t very good penetration through to the far side of the tubes.  So, while still hot, I added another flux-dipped ring of solder to each of the tubes and did it again, this time really focusing the heat on the underside of the tube sheet to help pull the solder through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-4-DSC_2825.jpg)

I think it worked!  Much better penetration this time.  The first might have been enough, but this is one of those inside joints that will be really difficult to fix once things are assembled, so I REALLY wanted to make sure on this one.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-5-DSC_2830.jpg)

Again, I’m certain I used too much solder.  But I’m OK with that.  I’m not going for the beauty contest.  I just want it to pass the pressure test!

Back to those speaker magnets – I have this stack of magnets that I use when hardening little steel parts.  But in this case, I was just using them for additional weight. Not sure that was such a good idea.  While heating, I noticed little ‘sparks’ jumping off of those magnets.  That made me worry some, so I sat a firebrick along in front of them to help block the direct flame from hitting them.  However, as you can see by this picture, the flame did cause one of the magnets to crack and break some chunks off.  One piece is stuck to one of the magnets above and another one is laying below.  But you can see it pretty much chowdered that lowest magnet!  Some of the pieces don’t seem very magnetic anymore either…  Probably want to use something else for weight next time!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197a-SilverSolderingTubes-6-DSC_2835.jpg)

So, now we’ll see how things look when the get out of the pickle bath.

Thanks for checking in on me,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 07, 2023, 01:36:18 AM
You're really moving right along, Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:

I wouldn't heat magnets like that Kim, -- they will lose magnetism above a certain temp, and some of the rare earth types can burn and release fumes you don't want to inhale.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 05:06:31 AM
You're really moving right along, Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:

I wouldn't heat magnets like that Kim, -- they will lose magnetism above a certain temp, and some of the rare earth types can burn and release fumes you don't want to inhale.
Thanks Steve!
Yeah, I won't be doing that anymore.  They were just handy so I used them. Bad call.  Fortunately (maybe?) they aren't rare earth magnets.  They're just run-in-the-mill speaker magnets that I scrounged from somewhere.  Great to have around from time to time, but this was a bad application for them.  They were really just acting as weights.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 05:12:03 AM
After several hours in the pickle, I fished the parts out and washed them up.

They look pretty good! (Now I’m at that excited point and feel like “I can DO this!”  8) – but tomorrow when I set up to do the next step, not so much…   :paranoia:).

Here’s the firebox up to this point.  There is good solder all around.  Even in that one spot along the upper left side that looks like a fillet gap – if you turn the part a little you can see a solid solder fillet just below the edge of the firebox sheet.  It actually looks really good!  As do all the screw heads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197b-SilverSolderingTubes-1-DSC_2839.jpg)

Here’s the inside of it. Again, it looks like a problem just above where the arc starts, but if you look at it in person, you can see a solid solder joint just down a bit there. These are where the largest gaps were.  I did fill them with some copper wire, but it’s down just below the edge of the formed sheet.  So really, I’m quite pleased with that joint all around.  The screw ends have nice solder fillets too..
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197b-SilverSolderingTubes-2-DSC_2844.jpg)

Now to the firebox tube sheet.  This one came out REALLY nice.  I’m sure it helped that the holes were bored, so are nice and round, and they fit the 3/4" tubes really well, so minimal gaps.  Too little gap, if anything.  But good fillets all around each tube (even if too much solder was used.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197b-SilverSolderingTubes-3-DSC_2847.jpg)

And on the outside of these joints, you can see I got very good flow through and great fillets all around. Even on the inside where I was more worried that I wouldn’t get enough heat.  It seemed to work pretty well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/197b-SilverSolderingTubes-4-DSC_2850.jpg)

So, all in all, it was a good days work!  Only a few more weeks of this and I may have a boiler!

Thanks for following along!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 07, 2023, 09:31:49 AM
The fillets in the last picture looks really good - even beautiful Kim  :praise2:

Per       :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 07, 2023, 12:53:12 PM
Really great results!  The next stages get complex but you are building up your skills as you go, you'll get it!   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 07, 2023, 03:38:54 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 04:53:55 PM
Thank you Per, Chris, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 07, 2023, 05:20:52 PM
Really excellent results, Kim.  And, thanks for sharing all this work process.  It's really helpful for when I get to that stage.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2023, 11:03:21 PM
You bet, Todd!  Thanks for following along with my build!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 08, 2023, 01:27:40 AM
They do look good, Kim. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 08, 2023, 03:54:46 AM
Excellent……… :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2023, 05:14:09 AM
Thanks, Steve, and Don!  :cheers:

No progress today, or probably tomorrow.  I've got domestic duties and Dr appointments that are keeping me out of the shop.  But hopefully later in the week I'll get some time to make more incremental progress :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2023, 08:42:49 PM
Well, while I do have a Dr appointment today, it’s in the afternoon so I had a bit of time to play in the shop today!

I had been struggling with myself about what to do about the fact that I’d used easy-grade silver solder on the firebox ribs.  I looked at it after I soldered the firebox rear sheet (with the firebox door) and it still looked fine, but I still worried because there’s going to be a LOT of heating sessions centered around the firebox: I’ve still got the firebox tube sheet to solder in and then I’ve got the foundation ring, AND stay bolts on all FOUR sides of the firebox still to go.  Oh yeah, and I have to solder the back head in place too. I plan to do the staybolts with easy-grade solder, and likely the back head too.  But that’s a LOT of heating sessions to go still.  And if that easy solder melted and left a hole there, that would be a hard place to patch.

So, following my super conservative moto, I decided to re-solder the ribs & holding screws with some medium-grade silver solder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198a-BackheadBlowerPipe-1-DSC_2852.jpg)

Seems like it went pretty well based on my post-heating inspection. We’ll see later when it comes out of the pickle.

I still had a little time so I decided I could make the blower pipe.  This won’t be fitted till we attach the back head, but I can make up the pipe now.

The blower pipe needs to go from the backhead all the way to the front tube sheet.  I could determine the overall required length from the drawings, however, the bushing and stud that go on the ends both have a 7/32” hole in them for attaching the pipe. And it’s hard to tell just how deep those holes are.  So this is what I did;  I got a 7/32” gauge pin, measured its length with the mic, then placed the bushing and stud on opposite ends and measured the whole setup.  Then I could subtract out the length of the gauge pin and know just how much length those two end pieces will provide to the overall blower pipe assembly and I could calculate the length of the 7/32” tube I would need to cut!  I thought I was quite clever  O:-)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198a-BackheadBlowerPipe-2-DSC_2855.jpg)

Here I’m using my Xacto miter saw to cut that thin-walled tubing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198a-BackheadBlowerPipe-3-DSC_2857.jpg)

I was planning to silver solder the pieces together this morning but I ran out of time.  So I’ll do that next time.

Today’s appointment is kind of a milestone for me.  It’s my one-year appointment with my cardiologist following my bypass last February.  I have no doubt that everything is fine.  I’m feeling great! But it is a wonderful marker of getting on with things after that event.  ;D

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 08, 2023, 08:52:41 PM
I had been struggling with myself about what to do about the fact that I’d used easy-grade silver solder on the firebox ribs.

Unless you have absolutely amazing control of the torch and therefore the temperature it is highly likely that it makes any significant difference which grade of solder was used. It will all either melt or not melt.

I realize the old-timers all say to step down the grades of solder as the build progresses, but I doubt there is much reality to that concern. The melting temperatures are not that far apart.

All silver solder is more difficult to remelt compared to the initial melt because some of the more volatile elements such as zinc tend to disappear when the solder is first melted.

Obviously this is just my opinion, and I have not done any lab tests.  :Lol:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 09, 2023, 05:29:48 AM
Thanks for the input, Gene.  That has been my thinking up till now, but I am changing my mind about it to some extent.

When using the Oxy-Acytelene torch, I couldn't tell much difference between the easy and medium solders.  The medium just seemed to flash with no additional effort over the easy.

However, now that I'm using a propane torch, I can really feel the difference in how hard it is to flash the medium solder vs the easy solder.  The propane torch heats things more slowly and evenly and takes quite a bit longer (a minute, maybe two?) to get that additional heat build up to melt the medium solder.

Granted, if you keep heating past flowing the easy solder, you'll get hot enough to flash medium.  But as you say, it takes more heat to re-melt the solder - some delta above the original melting point.  So that provides some additional grace.

I don't know how much difference it will make, but I made the decision to go with varying grades of solder.  It may only buy me a little margin, it may not buy me anything.  But I going this way and we'll see how it goes!

I'll have a firmer opinion when I get to the end of this boiler build!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 09, 2023, 02:24:59 PM
I am sure you have read the modern "words and music" from Kozo. He states in several books and articles that he uses only one grade of silver solder. I believe he typically used EZ-FLO 45, which is essentally banned today due to its cadmium content.

Personally, I use only Harris Safety-Silv 56 for everything. I am not sure what this would be called in the jeweler's easy-medium-hard terminology.

Of course you should do what you feel is most comfortable. Sorry if I came across as saying you were doing something wrong.  :-[

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 09, 2023, 02:48:02 PM
Of the silver brazes I've purchased here in the States from jewelry supply houses the word classifications are Soft, Medium and Hard.

I have in the workshop Soft which is 65% silver with a 1240F melting point, and Medium, with a 70% silver content and a 1275F melting point.

Harris Safety-Silv 56 is 56% silver with a melting point of 1205F

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 09, 2023, 05:43:49 PM
I am sure you have read the modern "words and music" from Kozo. He states in several books and articles that he uses only one grade of silver solder. I believe he typically used EZ-FLO 45, which is essentally banned today due to its cadmium content.

Personally, I use only Harris Safety-Silv 56 for everything. I am not sure what this would be called in the jeweler's easy-medium-hard terminology.
Yes, I've read what Kozo says.  I originally started with that line of thought, but then decided to try the multiple grades of solder. Figured if it buys me any margin at all, that's a good thing! :)

Of course you should do what you feel is most comfortable. Sorry if I came across as saying you were doing something wrong.  :-[

Gene
Thanks for your concern!  But not to worry. I didn't take it that way, only as your thoughts on it.  And it gave me comfort that it likely won't make any difference :) And I'm sorry if my reply came off as a little sharp or abrupt. It wasn't intended that way. Only to reflect my current experience, which I'm sure will change over time as I get more! :)

Thank you, Gene, your comments and suggestions are always welcome and appreciated! 
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 09, 2023, 05:54:24 PM
Aside from the different melting points, which I agree with Kim on in that the propane torch heats slow enough that the different melting point do make a difference, I have noticed that the Easy and Extra Easy grades flow better, they get more watery when melted than the upper grades and flow into joints easier/farther. The medium and hard grades by comparison stay a little thicker and dont run the same, though with a pointy rod they can still be dragged around and they do wick in well.  I have no experience with the older cadmium containing versions, or with an acetyline torch so can't speak to the differences from them.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 09, 2023, 06:06:45 PM
To add to what Steve Said, the Haris Safty-Silv 56, with 56% silver, maps to 'extra-easy' in the easy/medium grade terminology.

Extra-Easy:  56% silver
Easy:           65% silver
Medium:      70% sliver
Hard:           75% silver

According to the Rio Grande site.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 09, 2023, 11:01:11 PM
Mine are intended for the stainless steel hot cap area on a hot air engine, so a high melting temp was a necessary compromise. I haven't tried Hard grade yet, but would like to eventually for stainless tubing in the hot zone.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2023, 12:46:26 AM
Chapter 23.18 – Silver Soldering the Firebox Tube Sheet

This was a bad day. I did stupid things and mucked up what had previously been a pretty good few months worth of operations.

This was a good day.  I can walk away from the landing.

First, the part that went well.  I set up the blower pipe to solder the bushing and stud to the ends. This shows the bushing ready for soldering on the hearth. Sorry about the pictures. It was so far back in a cave I used some extra lighting. Never makes for a good picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-01-DSC_2870.jpg)

And here we are, after soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-02-DSC_2874.jpg)

After doing the other end, it’s now in the pickle bath.

On to the mixed bag…  I attached the firebox tube sheet/tube assembly to the rest of the firebox with the little bronze screws, fluxed it up, and put solder about on the inside of the joint. You can see it here set up on the hearth for soldering.  The outside is overexposed, but the inside is what you should be looking at – the flux and solder.  I used medium-grade solder here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-03-DSC_2860.jpg)

After heating up the parts I melted the solder, working my way around the outside of the firebox shooting the flame up mostly underneath the tube sheet.  This worked well and I got a very good solder fillet all the way around, as best as I could tell.

Now here’s my mistake.  I turned the whole setup over, resting it on the back of the firebox – really, the studs and the door ring.  Then set flux-dipped solder all around the outside of the joint and proceeded to blast the flame inside the firebox to melt that round of solder.
While this worked, just as I was finishing up I noticed that the whole setup started to lean toward me… Not good…  Luckily I was able to grab a pair of channel locks I have there and grab the unit before it fell over.  What happened?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-04-DSC_2866.jpg)

Well, I overheated the back of the firebox and all the solder there went soft.  And what’s worse, it melted the little 1-72 screws that were holding things together and they just sheared, which caused the whole thing to slump that direction.  You can see that the ends of the screws on the back of the firebox (right side in this picture) are offset from the heads.  There’s probably almost an 1/8” separation there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-05-DSC_2865.jpg)

Not sure what to do, I let things cool a bit then stuck it in the pickle.

I spent some time kicking myself for being so stupid. :hammerbash: I hemmed and hawed and stewed. And finally decided to take it out of the pickle to see just how bad it really was.  I couldn't stop for the day wondering how bad of a mess I'd made of my last 3 months of work, you know?

So, let's look at the good first – I got good solder fillets around the front:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-06-DSC_2895.jpg)

And around the backside:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-07-DSC_2898.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-08-DSC_2901.jpg)

All the new joints look pretty good! (yay?)

Unfortunately, the back of the firebox is quite ugly and really did push back 1/8”.  Very bad.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-09-DSC_2904.jpg)

So, I decided to try and assemble the pieces and see if it was still a usable part, even with it bent so out of whack. And I think that it is…

Here’s the shot that shows the worst of it – the left side there is the rear. The backhead isn’t really attached – it’s just stuck in place.  But I could get it to fit, which is good.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-10-DSC_2877.jpg)

And the studs and firebox door ring still come through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-11-DSC_2883.jpg)

Here’s a view of the whole thing.  It mostly looks OK if you don’t know the mess I made.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-12-DSC_2889.jpg)


And the front tube sheet seems to go in OK.  I didn’t bother fishing the blower pipe and steam pipes into their respective holes there, but they won’t be the problem.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198b-BackheadBlowerPipe-13-DSC_2892.jpg)

So is there any way I can heat things up and move the back of the firebox out 1/8”?  Or should I just leave bad enough alone and push forward with the dog’s breakfast I made of it?

Any advice before I plow on?

Another option could be to try and remove the rear firebox sheet (the one with the door ring) clean it up and try soldering it in again.  Wonder if that could work? Or If it’s worth the effort to try?

Thanks for looking in on my mess.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 10, 2023, 12:59:01 AM
I'm sorry Kim.  :ShakeHead: But knowing you, I'm very sure you'll solve it, and be able to complete your fine boiler. :cheers:  :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 10, 2023, 02:59:00 AM
I'd suggest just carrying on, as long as everything is soldered and the firehole ring and stays are engaged as they  should be the displacement should not matter. I very much doubt if there would be any difference in firing from the displacement. Just my $0.02 worth.  :cheers:

Forgot to mention - you will likely have to adjust the width of the rear piece of the foundation ring to account for the displacement.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 10, 2023, 03:09:03 AM
I'd suggest just carrying on, as long as everything is soldered and the firehole ring and stays are engaged as they  should be the displacement should not matter. I very much doubt if there would be any difference in firing from the displacement. Just my $0.02 worth.  :cheers:

Forgot to mention - you will likely have to adjust the width of the rear piece of the foundation ring to account for the displacement.  :ThumbsUp:
Agreed.  And the foundation  ring is best made to fit  measured  openings rather than  drawing specs in any case, so many other parts stackijng up tolerances!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 10, 2023, 04:47:06 AM
Hello Kim,
if you can wear out the firebox from below without major problems, I would leave it as it is. It's just a cosmetic flaw. It is important that the water can circulate well around the firebox and that all soldered connections are tight.
I also know that mistakes during construction are always annoying, but over time and once everything is finished, they are forgotten.
I hope you find your way.
I'm looking forward to the first charcoal fire in the boiler.

Greetings Michael   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2023, 05:31:11 AM
Thanks Steve, Jeff, Chris, and Michael,  :-\

I appreciate the encouragement and the vote of confidence.

I'm inclined to agree - just push on. And yes, this will definitely affect the foundation ring, but I haven't made those yet. As you say, they will be made to fit, regardless...

It just makes me so sad.  If only I had done this, or if I'd have done that... I keep going over this again and again in my head.  I guess that's how you learn.  You make dumb boneheaded mistakes and learn from them.  And as mistakes go, this one isn't so bad because I didn't get hurt.  Only metal got hurt and it didn't seem to mind.

So all my thinking has led me to this list of things I should have done to improve the likelihood of a good outcome.

1) I should have insulated the back firebox sheet.  It was getting all the reflected heat in the firebox, PLUS it intercepted the edge of the flame on its way up to the underside of the firebox tube sheet.
   a) I could have put a chunk of those crumbling firebricks on top of it - that would have helped some.
   b) I could have placed a firebrick in front of the edge of the back sheet so that it didn't catch the edge of the flame.
Those things would have helped keep the back sheet cooler

2) I could have used a smaller burner.  I switched from the 30mm that I'd been using for the firebox to the 35mm thinking I would need more heat.  I'm not sure I did.  And the heat I got was distributed much more widely.

3) I could have used easy-grade solder.  I thought I'd save the easy for the stays, but maybe I needed to use it here too...  Or maybe that wouldn't have made enough difference.  But it might have.

4) I did notice the back firebox sheet starting to turn red.  I should have STOPPED right then.  Instead, I just thought, "It's getting hot in there - That's good - that means the solder is about to flow".  Which was right.  Unfortunately, it was the wrong place to be getting red hot.  I should have stopped and figured out some way to focus the heat more where I wanted it, NOT in the wrong place, which is what I got.

You can even see how the solder had dripped down the back of the firebox ribs and puddled toward the back sheet.  Not at all what I intended, of course.  But the worst is that I melted those screws.  It got pretty hot.  And those screws are very small.

So, you live, you screw up, you learn.  Hopefully, I won't do this too many more times.  At least, not on this build...

Thanks for the suggestions.  I will happily take any other suggestions if anyone has any ideas on how I could recover from this dunderheaded move.

Thanks,
Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 10, 2023, 01:54:18 PM
Looks pretty salvageable to me.

I would not attempt to remove the firebox back sheet except as a desperate last attempt. It is difficult to remove a large piece like that without messing up adjoining pieces. Especially when there are fasteners already installed.

If possible you may consider moving the firebox and tubes to the rear a tiny bit. You would need to balance the length of the stays on the front and rear firebox sheets. It may also be possible to adjust the front tube sheet if necessary. Is it already fixed in place?

You might even move the backhead position forward a small amount.

However, from your photos it seems that the rear stays are just barely long enough, so just going forward with no changes appears to be a viable option.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 10, 2023, 02:54:09 PM
So sorry that happened Kim! I'm glad it seems the only real damage was emotional, and you'll quickly get over that. Your list shows that you already have the experience to understand where things went wrong, will learn from it, which adds another piece to your experience armor, and you will continue to move forward toward the successful completion of a challenging project. :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 10, 2023, 05:15:11 PM
Ok dear  :(  :(  :( but luckily it sounds to be more of a problem than a disaster and you can compensate for it  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2023, 06:57:35 PM
Thank you, Gene, Ron, and Roger.  Appreciate the encouragement.  I need it right now. I'm not feeling so on top of things at the moment  :-\

But yes, I'm sure you're right. I'll figure it out and get past it.  It's just frustrating, as you all know.  But there's no growth without pain, they say.

Gene,
None of the parts you listed are fixed in place yet.  And I will be able to adjust the positions much better before final assembly.  That was just a preliminary test fit to see if I could even get something that would pass. And based on that, I believe I can. And I agree, trying to remove that part is likely to cause more harm than good, so I  plan to leave it as is.  I'll have to shore up the soldered joints there.  That will probably be my project for the day before I go on to create the foundation ring.

Wish me luck!  I'm going to need it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 10, 2023, 09:29:01 PM
And I will be able to adjust the positions much better before final assembly.

You can be a pioneer. I am sure nobody else has ever made "dynamic design changes".  :lolb:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2023, 09:51:04 PM
So true, Gene!    :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2023, 09:54:48 PM
Well, I’m feeling better about things.  Still frustrated with myself for pulling such a bone-headed move.  But such is life.  I’ll live through this one.

I kept today short - just focused on re-soldered the joints on the rear firebox sheet.

Only the part toward the base was really needing fixing, (and it REALLY needed fixing!) so I fluxed that up, added a bit of filler copper and a bunch of solder.  I considered going to easy grade, but decided to stick with medium.  I did, however, carefully pack some of my crumbling firebrick in the firebox to help protect the firebox tube sheet and tubes from the direct flame.  Tried to build up a little around the outside of it also for the same reason.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198c-BackheadBlowerPipe-1-DSC_2908.jpg)

I applied heat (moving back to the 32mm burner).  I tried to do most of the heating from the outside, rather than the inside of the firebox (which would have been my first inclination).  I did some inside, but I tried to keep 70-80% outside.

Anyway, it went well enough.  Here’s what it looked like while cooling:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198c-BackheadBlowerPipe-2-DSC_2911.jpg)

My initial inspection says it should be OK.

Tomorrow I’ll fit things together again and start on the foundation ring.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 10, 2023, 10:34:31 PM
One thing to be careful of when packing firebrick around the parts - it does keep direct flame off those areas, but if its stacked solid around then any heat that conducts through the copper (and copper is very good at  conducting heat) is insulated and cannot radiate out again. Best to use some brick up top to keep the direct flame controlled, but let the lower areas be exposed to air so they can keep cooler.

Glad you are able to save the work so far!!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 10, 2023, 10:45:18 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 11, 2023, 01:09:52 AM
Keep on keepin on, Kim. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2023, 05:25:16 AM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, and Steve,

Good point Chris. I probably should have left more venting lower down.  Good to keep in mind for the future. Add to my "should have done" list!  :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2023, 05:26:30 AM
Now for the obligatory post-pickle picture:

Not as pretty as before, but the fillet looks great on the left side, and on the right side if you look down in that crevasse you do see solder.  That was the worst side, but it got some copper caulking before soldering and I think it’s actually OK.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/198d-BackheadBlowerPipe-1-DSC_2917.jpg)

I also fit all the pieces together and am quite certain now that I can make this all fit together acceptably well.  It won’t look quite as pretty as I would like, but it should be quite functional!  And most likely, few people will ever even know of my difficulties unless they read it here.

At least, that’s what I’m telling myself now  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 11, 2023, 12:48:12 PM
Good that you are feeling better about the result now Kim  :ThumbsUp:

.... but you claim to have posted a picture  :stickpoke:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2023, 04:24:53 PM
Hmm.... somehow a 'space' crept in between some of the letters in the path name for the picture.  Sorry about that!  the pic should show up now.

Thanks Per!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2023, 04:31:11 PM
Nice recovery!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 11, 2023, 05:13:59 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 11, 2023, 05:17:36 PM
That looks good Kim, I'm glad that you were able to recover from this little setback.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2023, 10:42:16 PM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, and Dave!

I've got LOTS of mistakes to go before I finish this project!  Can't let a little thing like a severely misshapen boiler stop me, can I?  :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2023, 10:47:56 PM
Chapter 23.19 – Silver Soldering the Foundation Ring

Next up is the foundation ring.

I dry-assembled the major sub-assemblies of the boiler again, showing where the foundation ring will be going.  I chose to tackle it one side at a time, starting with the section between the firebox tube sheet and the throat sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199a-FoundationRing-1-DSC_2918.jpg)

I took careful measurements here and drew up a diagram of what I wanted to end up with, then cut a piece of 1/8” copper and roughed the shape out using a 1/2" end mill.  Here’s my drawing and the part I roughed out.  I planned to do all the fine-tuning with files.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199a-FoundationRing-2-DSC_2921.jpg)

But then I had a brilliant idea!  The forms were made with a 1/16” radius, so if I used a 1/8” round-nosed mill I could nicely cut the inside rounded shape.  So That’s what I did.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199a-FoundationRing-3-DSC_2926.jpg)

When fitting I realized my mistake; the form would have been the inside curve of the sheets – so the outside curve (the one I’m fitting to here) would be greater than 1/16” radius.  Probably closer to 1/8” radius (but not quite - it'd be 1/16" plus the thickness of the copper sheet (0.080")).

I did some additional shaping with files and it fits OK, but there are pretty big gaps at those inside corners. The straight edges aren’t really as bad as they look here.  I put a slight bevel on the inside edge there – something Kozo says to do to help the solder pull down into the joint.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199a-FoundationRing-4-DSC_2929.jpg)

I may end up re-doing this part if I have enough copper stock (I’m getting pretty short on 1/8” copper sheet).  If not I’ll just plug the holes with copper wire and shavings.  That will work. But it would feel better if I had a closer fit there.  I’ll see what my copper situation is and decide after that.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 13, 2023, 04:19:00 PM
Your boiler is really looking good, Kim.  Nice save on the interior backhead.  And, the mud ring looks like it's going to be some fun and finicky work.  I look forward to your continued progress.
My own engine has had some minor progress.  I'm about to do the final shaping of the main rods.  I'll post on my log when those are done.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 13, 2023, 07:30:34 PM
Thanks Todd!  :cheers:

Looking forward to seeing your progress too!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 13, 2023, 09:53:23 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 15, 2023, 04:17:50 AM
Thanks, Jeff!  :cheers:


I reviewed my 1/8” copper sheet situation and as it turns out, I did have enough to re-do that piece of the foundation ring.   I knew I was running close on that, but luckily, I had enough.  I tend to overestimate my need a little when ordering material and I try to be somewhat more efficient when I actually go to cut parts.  So, yay, I have a little bit to spare.  ;D

So, that’s what I did today – remade that piece of the foundation ring at the base of the throat sheet.  I used essentially the same process as before but was more methodical and careful about it.  I started on one side, got it to basically fit, then worked on the other side till it, basically fit.  Then I fine tuned the depth of the long channel. Here I decided that one end was a little narrower than the other end so I used a feeler gauge as a shim while fine tuning that part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-1-DSC_2933.jpg)

Then a few dozen more file/test iterations and I had a fit I was mostly satisfied with. Though not perfect, the fit on this one is quite a bit better than the first one.  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-2-DSC_2936.jpg)

Next, I wanted to add some hold-down screws for the newly fitted piece of the foundation ring.  I couldn’t figure out a way to hold this setup in the mill so I ended up drilling the holes through the throat sheet with my cordless drill.  I used minimal stick-out on the tiny #52 drill (1-72 tapping size) and drilled through the throat sheet just to where it just started into the foundation ring piece.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-3-DSC_2939.jpg)

Then I took the foundation ring piece out and moved that to the mill to finish drilling the holes deep enough.  I found this much less worrying than trying to drill drilling a 1/4" deep hole in copper using the cordless drill.  :o
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-4-DSC_2943.jpg)

After tapping those holes, I opened the two holes on the throat sheet to #48 (1-72 close-fit through holes).

My next move was to add screws to hold the backhead in place. The backhead won’t be soldered in for some time yet but I want to have a secure way to hold it in place as I fit the remainder of the foundation ring.

So, I clamped the backhead into place.  I spent a fair bit of time positioning the backhead. I wanted it to be as perpendicular to the sides of the boiler as possible, and at the right distance out from the outside firebox sheet so that the boiler would be the correct length overall.  And of course, I needed the firebox door ring and the stays to all protrude through their respective holes enough.  I think I got a decent compromise on all fronts.  This, of course, was made harder by my bone-headed soldering mishap earlier, but I think I'll get past it. Here I've just drilled the 1-72 tapping hole through the outside firebox sheet and the backhead (again, using the cordless drill).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-5-DSC_2946.jpg)

After tapping the holes in the backhead and opening up the ones in the outside firebox sheet, I assembled all the pieces in place.  You can see the throat sheet section of the foundation ring (in the lower left of the picture) and the back head all fastened together here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199b-FoundationRing-6-DSC_2953.jpg)

Unfortunately, I forgot to put the actual firebox in there, so I’ll have to do that first thing tomorrow.  Hopefully, I won’t forget the firebox on final assembly!  :o

That’s where I finished up for the day.  I hope to complete the foundation ring tomorrow. Or possibly the next day. Or the one after that. Each step of this boiler has taken longer than I had predicted. So I hesitate to make any predictions at this point!

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2023, 11:52:39 AM
Very fiddly work, but coming out great!  After the boiler is done, you can go into making copper jigsaw puzzles!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 15, 2023, 06:07:39 PM
After the boiler is done, you can go into making copper jigsaw puzzles!
Actually, I've done quite a bit of that, though, not in copper. I've made lots of wooden jigsaw puzzles!  Fun to do, but it looses its luster after doing several dozen puzzles...  I don't know how people do that for a living (cut jigsaw puzzles, that is - and yes, some people do!)

I've used several different cutting styles.
A curly one:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/WoodenPuzzles-Curl.jpg)

A long style:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/WoodenPuzzles-Long.jpg)

And a slightly more standardish knob style.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/WoodenPuzzles-Round_Knob.jpg)

I don't do grid style. It's just so boring.

I do, however, embed lots of cool figure pieces in them!  That makes them extra special and fun!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/WoodenPuzzles-Figures.jpg)

Though, I've never done it in copper before!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2023, 07:00:28 PM
Wow - those look like amazing puzzles, the patterns are fiendish!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 15, 2023, 08:46:43 PM
Interesting Jigsaw Puzzles - I'm sure John my Brother in Law, would love to solve a few of them  :ThumbsUp:


Per           :cheers:        :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 15, 2023, 11:32:22 PM
Thanks Chris & Per!
Yes, they are very fun to assemble.  Doing a wooden jigsaw puzzle has a whole different feel to it compared to a cardboard puzzle (which I also enjoy).  The wooden pieces are very satisfying to put into position!   8)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 15, 2023, 11:38:00 PM
After reassembling the boiler, remembering to include the firebox this time, I cut a strip of 1/8” copper to use for the left and right sides of the foundation ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-DSC_2956.JPG)

After cleaning it up to the widest point on the sides, I cut that piece in half to make two pieces – one for each side – and set about shaping them to fit.  The only thing novel or interesting in this process is that I had to cut some relief for the blowdown bushing on one side.  I did this by using some sharpie around where the bushing was, then setting the foundation ring section in its place and raping it with a softish hammer.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-DSC_2962.JPG)

This put a mark in the blue sharpie where it hit the bushing, showing me where I needed to remove material.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-DSC_2960.JPG)


After I was satisfied(ish) with the fit, I marked and drilled holes for the hold-down screws – the same way as before using a combination of hand drill and mill -   then mounted them in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/4-DSC_2967.JPG)

I’ve only got one section remaining. This will be the most challenging piece because of its weird shape. But I’ll tackle that tomorrow.

Progress…
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 15, 2023, 11:53:31 PM
Looking  great!  When do the holes for the  stay bolts get drilled, before  or after soldering  the firebox  in place?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 16, 2023, 03:15:04 AM
Looking Good, Kim.  Next up...  The funky one.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2023, 04:30:21 AM
Looking  great!  When do the holes for the  stay bolts get drilled, before  or after soldering  the firebox  in place?
Kozo has you drill them AFTER you solder the firebox together.   So, after I get the foundation ring completed, I'll:

1) Solder the foundation ring pieces to the outside of the firebox & throat sheet, and to the backhead (with the backhead still detached)
2) Assemble the firebox and tubes, and backhead into the boiler shell & firebox sheet, and solder it all to the inside of the foundation ring.
3) Solder the throat sheet and backhead stays
4) Drill for the side stay bolts and solder them into place - outside first, then inside.
5) solder the front tube sheet into place

And there you have it, all done!

So close, and yet, so far...
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2023, 04:31:42 AM
Looking Good, Kim.  Next up...  The funky one.

Todd
Yup, the funky one.  This is the price I pay for my stupidity. (Or lack of experience as I call it when I'm feeling more emotionally stable  :Lol:)

Thanks Todd!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 16, 2023, 09:20:43 AM
Kim, I think you can be proud of what you've accomplished so far. I myself have not yet gotten involved in such an extensive boiler project and therefore bought the boiler for my 5 inch locomotive.
Because I know how difficult this job is. But you did it and you will succeed in the last step.

Michael   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2023, 04:39:03 PM
Thank you, Michael!
I'm feeling pretty good about it at the moment.  But as you know, this has been quite the rollercoaster ride for me  :insane:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 16, 2023, 06:13:33 PM
Kim:

Won't where you had to recess the foundation ring to fit around the blow-down fitting leave a weak spot in the foundation ring?  Or is that ring so narrow at that point that it won't really have any effect?  Just wondering, because it looks like a significant part of the ring's thickness was removed. 

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2023, 04:02:49 AM
Interesting point, Don.
I believe it must be plenty strong because that's what Kozo shows to do in his plans.  It is documented that way.

The ring is 1/8" thick but most of the boiler is only 0.080" thick copper. And the tubes are only 0.062" thick (by plan).  So I believe that what remains in that one area is still plenty thick enough for safety.  Plus, as you say, it is only a very very small area that is that thin, so even at 160 lbs/in^2 (which is 2x pressure) that's going to be a fairly small amount of force.

Plus, it is being supported by the bushing itself.  At least, the way I did it, that cutout rests directly on the back side of the blowdown bushing.

This is my thinking anyway.  And what the plans show.  So hopefully, OK! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on March 17, 2023, 07:54:49 AM
in that area  when you heat it the silver solder should run in and it will all become one piece if you run enough solder in.
john
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 17, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Some interesting challenges however you are meeting them  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2023, 11:11:58 PM
Thanks Roger!

in that area  when you heat it the silver solder should run in and it will all become one piece if you run enough solder in.
john
Agreed, John!  I believe that is what will happen! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on March 17, 2023, 11:13:49 PM
Looking very nice so far Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2023, 11:19:17 PM
Thank you Sam!  :cheers:

Yesterday was domestic duty day, so no progress.  But today, I did get some shop time to work on that last section of the foundation ring.

I debated on how to go about this one and finally came up with this idea.  I made a template out of a piece of cardboard (like the kind that is the backing for a tablet of paper).  To do this, I used a large blue sharpie and colored the top of the inside of the firebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-01-DSC_2971.jpg)

While the sharpie ink was still wet, I placed the cardboard on it and pressed it down firmly all across.  I actually used a little hammer to get a good impression.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-02-DSC_2973.jpg)

Here’s what it looked like:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-03-DSC_2976.jpg)

Using an X-Acto knife with a fresh blade, I cut out around the OUTSIDE of the ink impression. Then I inked up the outside edge of the firebox and, lining the cutout with the now cut outline, I made an impression of the outside the same way.  It now looked like this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-04-DSC_2981.jpg)

After cutting along the INSIDE of this ink impression I had my temple, and it (mostly) fit in the hole!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-05-DSC_2983.jpg)

I then sprayed the back of the cardboard template with spray glue and placed it on my copper blank.  I had considered cutting the shape by filing, but after looking at how much copper needed to be removed, I decided to start with a little milling.  Here it is, set in the mill vise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-06-DSC_2987.jpg)

And after a few minutes of etch-a-sketch milling, I had this.  Lots of little stairsteps.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-07-DSC_2991.jpg)

Now, to the files where I evened out those stair steps to make things mostly match the template.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-08-DSC_2995.jpg)

Now this got me close-ish, but I still had a lot of filing and test fitting to go.  Like an hour and a half worth of filing, testing, bluing, sanding, etc. At which point I had this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-09-DSC_2999.jpg)

Not perfect, but pretty good.  Good enough that I can make it work. And this certainly was the hardest of the sections to make!

I did the mounting screw holes the same way as the others and here it is mounted in place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199d-FoundationRing-10-DSC_3002.jpg)

Now I have to solder the whole thing together.  But that’s another day’s task.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 17, 2023, 11:45:52 PM
Looking  great!  When do the holes for the  stay bolts get drilled, before  or after soldering  the firebox  in place?
Kozo has you drill them AFTER you solder the firebox together.   So, after I get the foundation ring completed, I'll:

1) Solder the foundation ring pieces to the outside of the firebox & throat sheet, and to the backhead (with the backhead still detached)
2) Assemble the firebox and tubes, and backhead into the boiler shell & firebox sheet, and solder it all to the inside of the foundation ring.
3) Solder the throat sheet and backhead stays
4) Drill for the side stay bolts and solder them into place - outside first, then inside.
5) solder the front tube sheet into place

And there you have it, all done!

So close, and yet, so far...
Kim
Got it!  So any drilling chips from the stay bolts can be dumped out the front before the front tube sheet goes in.

You are getting good at making those foundation ring shapes, at least you are making it look easy!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 18, 2023, 01:33:48 AM
Looking great as you head to the finish line, Kim. (just catching up after a few day's absence here). After I saw the jigsaw puzles, I thought no problem for Kim to do that last foundation piece!

Just as an alternative tip to the Sharpie method of marking out a cardboard pattern for possible future use, you can also do it by the old gasket tapping method with heavy paper, and that gives an accurate clean edge to the pattern.

Looking forward, Kim, to your around-the-corner completion,  holding a finished boiler in your hands!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 18, 2023, 02:10:17 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

The fit looks great on the rear foundation ring piece!

You might have an undiscovered talent for fitting teeth in gaps for making dentures! :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 03:55:49 AM
Thanks Chris, Steve, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Got it!  So any drilling chips from the stay bolts can be dumped out the front before the front tube sheet goes in.
Yeah, I was worrying about that too!  I was thinking I'd have a lot of little copper shavings in the boiler, but then remembered that the front won't be buttoned up yet!  That Kozo - it's like he thought about this or something, eh?

You might have an undiscovered talent for fitting teeth in gaps for making dentures! :Lol:

So, I may have another career ahead of me as a dentist?  Not so sure - I'm kinda really liking this retirement gig!  ;D

Looking forward, Kim, to your around-the-corner completion,  holding a finished boiler in your hands!
I'm going to be holding it VERY carefully!  It's getting heavy and I keep worrying that I'm going to drop it.  I dropped the outside firebox sheet once and that was bad enough.  If I dropped the finished boiler we'd have a very crooked Pennsy coming down the track cause I'm not sure there's much you can do to recover from that misstep!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 18, 2023, 02:21:36 PM
CAD, Cardboard Assisted Design, is a most important skill to have  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 18, 2023, 02:34:52 PM
CAD, Cardboard Assisted Design, is a most important skill to have  :) :wine1:
Good one!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 03:52:51 PM
CAD, Cardboard Assisted Design, is a most important skill to have  :) :wine1:
Good one!
:lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 09:05:20 PM
Today was the day to actually start soldering the foundation ring.  I cleaned up all the parts, applied flux and silver solder (easy grade this time) and set it up on the hearth.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199e-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3010.jpg)

I applied the heat from the outside and it took a while to get things up to temp but eventually, it did, and was able to work my way around the whole perimeter, melting the solder.  I started from the center and worked out, thinking that was the part that would be the hardest to heat.  And it was.  Whether that was the right method or not, I’m not sure. But it seemed to work OK.

After flashing all the solder around the ring I went around the outside edge and applied a ring of solder around each of the screw heads.  Here’s a shot after I completed my post-solder inspection, trying to make sure it looked like I got decent penetration.  Kinda hard to tell before pickling, but it looks pretty good I think.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199e-FoundationRing-2-DSC_3013.jpg)

After cooling I put the large part in the pickle then readied the backhead to solder on the last section of the foundation ring:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199e-FoundationRing-3-DSC_3016.jpg)

This part was much smaller than the first and came up to temp quickly.  After flashing the solder all along the ring I flipped it over and did a ring around each screw head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199e-FoundationRing-4-DSC_3019.jpg)

Now both parts are in the pickle and we’ll see how they come out later.  I snuck a peak at the boiler and it was looking pretty good but I decided to wait for pictures till after more pickle time.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on March 18, 2023, 09:33:13 PM
Holy smokes your making great progress Kim!    Work has been getting in my way these days....glad to see the great progress!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 09:48:40 PM
Thanks Dave!  Yes, inch by inch, I'm fighting my way through this boiler!  I'm gonna get there yet!

Hope you get some time to play soon.  All work and no play can make Dave a very sad boy!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 18, 2023, 10:29:37 PM
Excellent!!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 10:31:25 PM
Thanks Chris!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2023, 11:29:06 PM
After a few hours in the pickle bath, I took the parts out and rinsed them off.

Well, they look OK, but not as good as I’d like  :-\

As you can see from the picture I got pretty good flow through all around the joint except for the lower righthand corner.  The joint between the two parts just didn’t get anything – the solder just puddled on top (which is the underside in this photo).  Nor did the rounded lower part of the throat sheet.    So that area will need to be done again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199f-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3023.jpg)

The backhead part of the foundation ring came out pretty good though.  While the right side doesn’t have the beautiful flow through that the rest of the joint does, in person, you can see that the solder wicked 90% through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199f-FoundationRing-2-DSC_3029.jpg)

If that last picture were the issue, I’d probably just say it could pick up a little more solder when I solder the firebox in.  But the lower right corner on the first picture really feels like it needs addressing before I move on to soldering in the firebox.

Ah well. Each step forward is two baby steps for me! (I need a 'plodding on' emoji!)
But I’ll get there!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2023, 11:47:58 PM
Looks like good progress though, I'm guessing that you will be able to patch these little areas up and move forward?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 19, 2023, 12:06:51 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on March 19, 2023, 01:35:17 AM
You're gaining on it., Kim That's what I always say when someone asks me how I'm doing.

"Gainin!"

I'm sure you'll have those small spots filled next time we see pics!"  :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2023, 03:56:50 AM
Thank you Dave, Jeff, and Steve,

I'm guessing that you will be able to patch these little areas up and move forward?

Dave
Most definitely.  It's just the minor irritation of having to do another round of soldering before I can move on to the next step.  But I'll get there! :)

Yes, Steve, I'm gainin'  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: bobh on March 19, 2023, 12:03:03 PM
Does the pickle bath get it clean enough that you can just ad flux, solder and go at it again or do you have to get in there and mechanical clean the joint first? Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 19, 2023, 12:22:30 PM
Hi Kim,
nice progress over all.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 19, 2023, 12:55:48 PM
It is progress - no matter the speed + the flowed areas look very good  :ThumbsUp:

Per     :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2023, 03:49:06 PM
Thank you Achim and Per!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2023, 04:11:58 PM
Does the pickle bath get it clean enough that you can just ad flux, solder and go at it again or do you have to get in there and mechanical clean the joint first? Bob
Hi Bob,
Yes, it comes out of the pickle very clean!  However, since I usually don't get around to doing the next round of soldering for a day or two I usually buff up the area just a little with a scotch brite or wire wheel in my Dremmel just to be sure to clear away any oxidation that has occurred.  Not sure that it's necessary, but I do it regardless.  It takes very little time and gives me more confidence.

I'm using a citric acid bath for my pickle.  It works quite well but it takes several hours to clean all the flux and soot off the copper.  I don't know if that's always the case for citric acid, or if I'm using too low of a concentration (though I did try and saturate the solution as much as I could) or if my pickle bath is just too dirty (it is rather dirty - lots of soot and muck in it).  But it's working for me.  And I generally haven't found it too much of an inconvenience to leave the items in the pickle bath that long.

If I'm willing to do more mechanical cleaning work, I sometimes only leave them in the pickle for 30 min or so to neutralize the flux then wash them off and use a lot more scotch-brite/wire wheel to clean all necessary areas.  It just takes more work and the rest of the part still looks less bright. Which I guess doesn't really matter since I'm going to be heating it up and getting it all ugly again.

I have used Sparex in the past and I feel that it worked faster than the citric acid.  But citric acid seems less caustic to me than even sparex, which is much less evil than a standard sulfuric acid pickle.  But the main reason I went with the citric acid is that it was much cheaper for me to make a BIG vat of it - big enough for my boiler.  The Sparex would have been much more expensive to make that large of a pickle bath.  Also, seems harder to dispose of.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 19, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
It looks like the lord of the boilers is slowly coming to the finish line.
Very good progress.

Michael 🍻
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 19, 2023, 06:36:52 PM
Citric acid pickle is quite temperature sensitive. If there is any way to warm the solution even 10 degrees the action will be faster. (Or you can just wait, unless someone is paying by the hour.  :))

I find those corners in the mud ring (foundation ring) to always be troublesome. There is nothing pushing the edges together, and it is not easy to manage a really close clearance without some help from screws or other clamping features. I suspect that the heating required for soldering causes some movement as well.

Time for the swarf, wire, shim stock, etc. to fill the gaps. Strength is not the issue, just leaks.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on March 19, 2023, 07:38:45 PM
When you're re-doing parts of a joint, it's not really possible to mechanically clean inside the joint - the mating faces are fixed by the first fry-up.  Cleaning around the joint makes you feel good, but all the places you can get to contribute very little to the strength of the joint - although they might support a leak-stopping effect.  So you have to rely on the pickle, and then the flux,  to clean things up in the inaccessible places.

Fortunately I've found that you can get excellent results on the second, third (and more) heat-ups - so the pickle and flux must work!

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2023, 08:31:54 PM
True enough, Wilf!  I'm certain you are correct there.  It doesn't hurt to buff it up, so I do it.  But you're right - the inside of the joint that really needs to be clean will only be affected by the pickle and the flux.

And to further comment on what Gene said about the citric acid pickle – that makes sense about the citric acid bath being more susceptible to temperature.  It’s been quite cold here. Even now we’re only in the mid 40’s Fahrenheit.  Maybe it will work better in summer weather when the temp is higher :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2023, 08:34:54 PM
Short shop session today.

I did exactly as Gene described and filled those gaps with some copper shavings then soldered it again.

It seemed to go well. I soldered it in the same position as yesterday but was unable to inspect the underside that way, so I carefully turned the boiler over so I could see the bottom.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199g-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3034.jpg)

The corner joint (right corner in the picture) came out OK.  Time will tell.  But there was still a bit of a gap along the top of the joint.  So I added a little fluxed solder there and flashed that.  This op took longer to get things up to temp.  I think that’s because I’d pulled the boiler out some and there was such a large gap between the insulating bricks and the area being soldered – it left a much larger heat sink open to the cool air, so it just took more ergs to get that area up to temp.

Regardless, I got it done and that gap is now filled and it’s sitting in the (cold) citric acid bath now.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 19, 2023, 09:53:02 PM
Great that the crework isgoing well. Be careful  pulling the boiler out to check, don't  drop it!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 01:25:30 AM
Be careful  pulling the boiler out to check, don't  drop it!!
No joke! I am worrying about that!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 01:27:10 AM
Out of the pickle bath now, and rinsed off, it looks pretty good!  Like it should have last night. The problem area is the lower right corner.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199h-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3038.jpg)

And just for fun, I fit the firebox and backhead in place to see how it’s going to look:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199h-FoundationRing-2-DSC_3042.jpg)

Not as good as I’d like, but it’ll do.  I didn’t put any screws in the back head, it’s just kinda snapped in place. So the gaps will be a little smaller, but not as small as I’d like them to be.  Ah well.  Copper caulking does wonders for my inability to make a close fit.  And it ought to work quite well.

So that’s my next project – soldering in the firebox.  That’s going to be a doozie I think…

But a doozie for another day.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on March 20, 2023, 01:40:55 AM
It's certainly getting there Kim!   Almost there, and then get the hydro and you'll be good to go!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 04:08:27 AM
Thanks Dave!
I'm kinda looking forward to having the boiler behind me, you know?  It's been a great project, and I'm learning a lot.  But it's been quite the stressful rollercoaster ride!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 20, 2023, 04:57:51 PM
Excellent progress, Kim!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 05:23:08 PM
Thank you, Todd!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 20, 2023, 05:36:50 PM
Not far to go now  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I think I can understand why Blondihacks decided to start with the boiler  ::)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 11:10:59 PM
I think I can understand why Blondihacks decided to start with the boiler  ::)

No joke!  :Lol:

But I don't think I was ready to do the boiler then.  You actually get some good experience forming copper working on the tender and with sliver soldering other parts of the engine that come earlier in the build if you follow the order in the book.  He really does do a good job of building skills in how he's presented and ordered things.  But yeah, since she already has boiler experience, I can see why she chose to start there.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2023, 11:27:15 PM
This section is called “Silver Soldering the Foundation Ring” and today, I actually, officially soldered the foundation ring!  It’s interesting – Kozo’s book covers this in a short little section saying to cut out and fasten the foundation ring to the firebox, then silver solder it in place.  OK, to be fair, he goes into a little more detail, telling you what order to do things in - which I have carefully followed.  But it’s just two short paragraphs.  And it’s taken me a week and a half just to do this section!  :embarassed:

Anyway, here’s what I did today.

Since this will be the last time I see this side of the firebox, I decided to file down the heads of the holding screws.  I didn’t file them down to nothing, but I made them a lot smaller for sure.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199i-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3048.jpg)

And I did the same to the ones holding the firebox ribs.  I could have waited for these, but I decided to go ahead and get that done now.  I used a little grinding wheel on the end of the Dremel to reach those since they are way down inside the firebox (which is actually the top of the firebox).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199i-FoundationRing-2-DSC_3053.jpg)

Then I spent some quality time with the flux and fluxed up all the joints.  I’m not going to get to the backhead this time around but the areas that have flux on them seem to come out of the pickle cleaner.  So I fluxed up those joints regardless.  But I only put solder on the foundation ring.  I also packed a little copper into some of the bigger holes between the firebox and the foundation ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199i-FoundationRing-3-DSC_3055.jpg)

I applied the heat from the top, since that was really the only option.  I started with the front right corner and focused there till everything got up to temp and started melting.  Then I worked my way around the firebox/foundation ring and melted the solder in sections, using the pointy stick to smear things around with.

I did an inspection and applied another round of flux-dipped solder to several areas and heated it up again - took a lot less time to get things to melt the second time.  After several more rounds of adding solder, I decided it looked pretty good, as best I could tell without cleaning, so I stopped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199i-FoundationRing-4-DSC_3059.jpg)

I let it cool in place for some time, with all bricks still around it.  Waited till it got below 200F.  Then I finally unpacked it, took out the rock wool, and placed it in the citric acid bath.

I used the 32mm burner for this op. I thought about going bigger, but the last time I used a larger burner I felt that I didn’t actually get as much heat from it.  I had this feeling that my propane tank wasn’t providing enough fuel to let the larger burner really do its thing.  So I went with the 32mm which as I said, felt more effective.  But to make it so I didn’t need as MUCH heat, I kept most of the boiler insulated.  There were gaps here and there, but it seemed like, while it would get hotter with the firebrick all around, it wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the silver solder if I kept the direct flame off of it. And this seemed to hold true.  This method worked well for me and allowed me to use a slightly smaller burner to do this large part.

Later, as I was turning off the propane, I saw that little red knob on the regulator.  Oh… I’ll bet I need to give that another turn to allow more fuel for the larger burners, huh? :)   I remember them saying to open the red knob about a turn or turn and a half as a starting position (or something like that) and that should be plenty of fuel for most burners.  Guess what?  I wanna use a bigger burner!  So I probably need to adjust that upward a tad.  :facepalm:

OK, I’ll try that NEXT time.  But this worked.  Though using a larger burner would probably have helped!

After 10-15 min in the pickle (just before I went in), I decided to check on the boiler. So here it is in my mucky pickle bath.  I’m sure it doesn’t help that the tub it's in is a dark color, but it is pretty cloudy.  But, the good news is that the foundation ring looks pretty good. And that is cleaning up quite well.  As I said, the areas with the flux seem to clean up fairly quickly in the pickle.  The soot and oxidization seem to take several hours to go away.  Oh, and that white thing floating in the water just to the right of the boiler is just just a reflection of the shop lights.  Also, you can see the wire I put through the firebox and door ring.  This is another suggestion from Kozo to give you something to hold onto to help you NOT drop the boiler.  Seemed like a good idea!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199i-FoundationRing-5-DSC_3067.jpg)

Anyway, I dunked the thing back in the pickle and will leave it there for several more hours.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 21, 2023, 12:17:50 AM
That looks good Kim and I think you nailed it…


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 21, 2023, 12:29:25 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

The foundation ring looks great Kim!

Note re pickle baths in general - you probably know this but pickle baths do lose strength over time, as the solution reacts with the flux and oxides during use. Also, as you go forward and assemble the boiler, you are increasing the surface area of copper being exposed to the bath as you progress through the boiler, so logically, along with the strength of the bath being reduced over time, it will likely take longer, due to increased area, to get the boiler assys clean.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 21, 2023, 01:52:29 AM
Most excellent!   You've  made a lot of progress and learned a lot.  Kozo uses little  text but lots of pictures  worth many more  words.


Almost  ready to go  into business  making boilers full time!  Um, just kidding,  put down the torch!  :Jester:




 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on March 21, 2023, 01:57:41 AM
What a great job Kim, this build log is very good and I bet a lot of people will be using your thread alongside the book :)
Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 21, 2023, 03:56:57 AM
Nice work, Kim!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2023, 04:14:45 AM
Thank you Don, Jeff, Chris, Gary and Todd  :cheers:

Overall, I think it did come out well. But as you'll see, some of those corners with worst fits need a little patching work before I'll be done with this.

------

Out of the pickle vat and here are the results from the judges:

Throat sheet, upper: No holes!  Looks very good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199j-FoundationRing-4-DSC_3081.jpg)

Throat sheet, lower: There’s a hole right at the corner at the end of the firebox sheet, and one about a half inch to the left along the firebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199j-FoundationRing-1-DSC_3072.jpg)

Backhead, lower: This was the area with the worst fit to start with.  So not surprising that we have a couple of small holes around the firebox sheet that need to be fixed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199j-FoundationRing-2-DSC_3075.jpg)

Backhead, upper:  Looks good, no holes!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/199j-FoundationRing-3-DSC_3078.jpg)


So I’ve got a couple of areas that I need to revisit.  While a little disappointing, I’m actually pretty pleased with how most of it came out.  All the joints look good, except for those few holes that need to be fixed.  And I can do that.

About par for the course for me – it takes at least two solder sessions to get a good joint all over on these large, poorly fitting joints.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 21, 2023, 08:05:55 AM
Hello Kim, in the end everything went very well. You can still do the rest.
When the boiler is finished, does it also have to go to your boiler inspector? With us, only when the pressure x volume exceeds the factor 50 does it have to be checked by an expert. But I don't know exactly whether this is still practiced according to the very latest EU laws. I don't think anyone knows that........😒
I have no obligation to test my purchased locomotive boiler.

I hope everything goes well for you with the pressure test.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2023, 05:00:32 PM
Interesting topic, Michael... I will do the hydrostatic testing myself to check the boiler.  As far as having the boiler inspected, I don't plan to have that done.  Mainly because I don't plan on running my loco in any public place.  Partly because there are no 3.5" gauge tracks around that I have found.  And partly because my main interest is in building it, not as much in running it (though I'm sure that would be fun too :)).

Also, I've looked around for local boiler codes and the best I could find is that boilers less than 6" in diameter are exempt from inspections.  But that's just the state rules.  If I wanted to run it at some club's track I'd have to follow their rules. I've looked at at least one club around here and they don't do yearly hydrostatic testing anymore. They do yearly inspections and lower-pressure testing under steam.

Anyway, I won't have to deal with any inspectors in my situation  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2023, 01:24:59 AM
Chapter 23.20 – Silver Soldering the Throat Sheet Staybolts

I decided I’d try doing the patching of the foundation ring and the soldering of the throat sheet staybolts in one session. Based on how things had been going, I felt this was not too big of a stretch.

I chose to solder the staybolts first since the setup of the staybolts was a little more challenging than placing a few pieces of patching solder onto the foundation ring.

I first did the copper caulking required around the foundation ring, then fluxed them up, but didn’t put any solder on.  Then I fluxed and placed easy-grade solder on the throat sheet staybolts.  It took some fancy brickwork to get the boiler to stand up this way since there are several protrusions sticking out from the backhead, like the door hinge and latch.  I also wrapped the upper part of the boiler shell with some rock wool to help insulate things during heating.  Again, I was careful to fill the firebox with insulation to keep the flame from hitting directly in there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-1-DSC_3084.jpg)

This worked great.  I flashed that solder but decided to do another round of solder on the staybolts.  Here it is after that second round was flashed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-2-DSC_3088.jpg)

Then I quickly, but carefully, re-arranged all the firebricks and the boiler to place the foundation ring facing up, and placed some more flux and solder around on the areas to be patched. Remember, I’d already wedged some copper shavings into the holes, so I was really just adding some solder here.  Then I applied the heat to those spots on the foundation ring and flashed that solder.  I did a second round of solder here too, just to be sure.  Here’s how it looked after all the soldering:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-3-DSC_3091.jpg)

I let the boiler cool for quite a while till it got down in temp, then put it in the citric acid.

Just to follow up on my burner discussion from yesterday, I decided to try the 35mm burner today. I re-read the directions and it said to use “five turns” as your starting point (not 1-2 like I said yesterday).  It said that this should provide about 28 lbs of pressure.  I checked the full range on that red knob and it has about 8.5 turns.  So I started with 6 turns today (presumably 1 more turn than I had before, but I can’t be sure) which seemed to give a more satisfactory result.  The flame didn’t seem to be starving for fuel like it did before.

Anyway, with the boiler in the pickle, I went off and did other things for a while.  A few hours later I came back and took the boiler out and was quite pleased with the results.  Here are the throat sheet staybolts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-4-DSC_3094.jpg)

And here are the two sections of the foundation ring that needed holes fixed.  They look great to me!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-5-DSC_3097.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/200a-SolderingThroatSheet-6-DSC_3100.jpg)

So I’m calling the foundation ring and the throat sheet staybolts a success!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2023, 01:28:56 AM
Chapter 23.21 – Silver Soldering the Backhead

I still had some shop time left so I decided to launch into the backhead!

The backhead has a LOT of things that need to be soldered.  Four staybolts, the door ring, the blower pipe (upper right, which I'd made a week or two ago, if you recall), and all around the outside edge between the backhead and the outside firebox sheet.  So I fluxed it all up, added solder bits, and set it up on the hearth for the flame session.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201a-SolderingBackhead-1-DSC_3103.jpg)

This took quite a bit of time to get up to temp. It didn’t help that there was a pretty good breeze blowing this afternoon.  It was a beautiful day, low 60s and all. But the breeze was sucking my heat away almost as fast as I could add it!  I considered adding a few more firebricks to act as a windbreak but never did. I eventually got the solder to melt.  Again, I did a second round of solder on some key places, and here’s the result:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201a-SolderingBackhead-2-DSC_3108.jpg)

I left it to cool for an hour or so, then put it in the pickle.  I’ll fish it out after dinner sometime this evening and we’ll see how much patching needs to be done to the backhead.

Good progress today!
Kim

PS  My arms are sore from holding the torch so much!  Especially on that last setup.  Not only did it take a long time, but it was quite a tall setup.  I had to hold the torch up at about forehead level to get the right angle.  So my arms are ready for a break!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 22, 2023, 01:52:07 AM
Dang Kim, you had a busy and very productive day!  That foundation ring is looking awesome!   :popcornsmall: :drinking-41:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 22, 2023, 03:02:16 AM
Woohoo!  That's a lot of work for one day.  Lookin' great!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 22, 2023, 04:15:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2023, 04:35:43 AM
Thanks Chris, Todd, and Jeff!

Yeah, that was a long day for sure!

Here's the post pickle report on the backhead soldering session:

Looks pretty good but will need some patching in a few places.  1) Left side of fire door ring, 2) Far right side of the backhead where the straight edge and the round sections join, 3) along the top of the backhead.
But on the good side, 95% of the joints look really good.  The thing along the top of the door ring looks like a piece of solder that didn’t melt, but its really a piece of my copper wire packing that apparently came loose and ended up there.  I'll get rid of that.  It probably came out of that gap on the left side…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201b-SolderingBackhead-1-DSC_3111.jpg)

Anyway, a pretty good day of soldering.

Some of the solder joints on the lower staybolts look a little cold.  I’m blaming this on the wind.  I think there are good joints under there though.  Just the top surface is a little less than ideal.  I’ll file it down a bit and if it doesn’t look better underneath that, I’ll patch it there too.

Thanks, everyone!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Today, I set about patching the solder joints in the backhead.

I did this as I have before by placing some copper shavings or wire in the gaps.  I then fluxed the joints and set pieces of silver solder in the appropriate places and set it up on the hearth with plenty of bricks around it to keep it warm.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201c-SolderingBackhead-2-DSC_3121.jpg)

This is a zoomed-out shot of the hearth just so you can see how tall the setup for the backhead really is.  It’s hard to see that in the zoomed-in view.  Of course, the zoomed-in view protects you from seeing my messy shop.  But then, I don’t think I’m fooling anyone anyway.  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201c-SolderingBackhead-1-DSC_3128.jpg)
I did do one thing different from yesterday in the setup – I added an extra layer of bricks on the top.  While that only covers up another 1 1/4" or so, I think it actually did help keep more heat in. Also, there was no wind this morning, which probably made the biggest difference. Oh yeah, and I turned my red knob on the regulator all the way open.  I don’t know how much difference that made, but I did it, regardless.

And here’s the after-shot.  Nice and crispy looking.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/201c-SolderingBackhead-3-DSC_3124.jpg)

With that, I let it cool for a long time (with all the bricks around it still) and then plopped it in the pickle.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 22, 2023, 10:38:03 PM
Chapter 23.22 – Silver Soldering the Side Staybolts

The next task will be to solder in the side staybolts.  While I had already made the staybolts (Reply 2427 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg263350.html#msg263350)), I still needed to trim the heads on half of them.  The top row of staybolts are very close to the waist in the outer firebox sheet which necessitates trimming, as you can see in this diagram.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/193a-SideStayBolts-1-DSC_2635.jpg)

So, I used the mill to shave off a bit of the head on six of the them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202a-SolderingStayBolts-1-DSC_3129.jpg)

And here are the six modified staybolts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202a-SolderingStayBolts-2-DSC_3133.jpg)

With that done, I’m now ready for the side staybolts.

Before I called it a day I wanted to check the backhead.  So I pulled the boiler up out of the bath and propped it in the corner of the pickle vat.  Though it had only been 30 min or so in the citric acid I already had a pretty good view of the patched areas, and all three of them look good, as best as I can tell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202a-SolderingStayBolts-3-DSC_3136.jpg)

I’m leaving it in the pickle for a few more hours though.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 22, 2023, 11:24:30 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcornsmall: :popcorn: :popcorn:   (me and the elves)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 23, 2023, 12:34:43 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Me too!  (but no elves of my own here).

Ow! one of Chris's elves just beaned me with an Elfensteiner can!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 23, 2023, 12:44:32 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Me too!  (but no elves of my own here).

Ow! one of Chris's elves just beaned me with an Elfensteiner can!
Thats why I sent Tosser to you!    :lolb:   Guess you haven't found the Elf nest in your shop yet...   :paranoia:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2023, 04:20:58 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!

Sorry about the Elf beaning there, Jeff!  From Chris's descriptions, it sounds like they can get pretty unruly at times!  :Lol:

I pulled the boiler out of the pickle just a few minutes ago and it looks great!  I didn't bother to take a picture because it looks pretty much like that last one, just cleaner   :D

Tomorrow will be drilling for the staybolts!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 23, 2023, 04:32:09 AM
Wow! You're getting dangerously close to a hydro test.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on March 23, 2023, 12:52:07 PM
While not necessary as a safety impection,, a hydrostatic  test will show any pinhole leaks.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2023, 03:50:31 PM
Wow! You're getting dangerously close to a hydro test.

Todd

 ;D

Maybe another week?  We'll see. it is getting exciting!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2023, 03:52:49 PM
While not necessary as a safety inspection, a hydrostatic test will show any pinhole leaks.

True.  The only safety inspection it will have will be the one I give it.  Which probably isn't enough for any club.  But hopefully, it will be enough for me for the limited runtime I expect it will actually have!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 01:19:02 AM
The first order of business for the day was to drill the holes for the staybolts.

So, I marked up their positions and used my cool new(ish) optical center punch to mark the centers.  I got the optical center punch about a year ago and just haven’t had a good opportunity to use it, but it was pretty handy here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-01-DSC_3141.jpg)

I set the boiler up on the mill and drilled the first hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-02-DSC_3146.jpg)

Then test fit one of the staybolts to make sure I was drilling the right size!  Luckily, I was.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-03-DSC_3149.jpg)

And proceeded to drill the remaining five holes.  Not a fast process in copper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-04-DSC_3152.jpg)

Then flipped the boiler over and did the same thing to the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-05-DSC_3154.jpg)

Now I needed to deburr the holes so the solder would flow well.  My wife recently got me this cool Noga deburring tool and this was the PERFECT use for it. (I saw Blondihacks using this tool and thought "That's cool! That could come in handy sometime!" So asked my wife for one for Christmas!  ;D).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-06-DSC_3159.jpg)

It allowed me to deburr the firebox side of the holes.  I was also able to deburr the inside edges of those holes too – remember, they go through the outer firebox sheet and the firebox sheet itself making twice as many holes to deburr, with half of the sides almost impossible to get to!  But with this fancy little tool, I could deburr them all!  It did take a while, but it worked very well!  I don’t know how I’d have done it otherwise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-07-DSC_3163.jpg)

Then it was time to do the solder prep.  Lot of prep work, as always.  It’s not easy to screw those staybolts together when they are covered with flux!  Kinda a messy proposition.
Kozo shows making a little metal shield to help protect the edge of the firebox and that seemed like a good idea.  In fact, it seemed like such a good idea I made four of them, one for each edge (Kozo only shows one on the edge closest to where  you’re working – probably enough, but this just seemed like a good precaution.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-08-DSC_3165.jpg)

As usual, it took a long time to get this monster up to temp, but once it did, the solder started flashing quickly, and I worked around all six staybolts.  And, as has become my habit for this boiler, I added a second round of flux and solder to the stay bolts and did it again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-09-DSC_3170.jpg)

Then I carefully used the pliers and gloves to unstack my hearth, flip the boiler over, and rebuild the hearth.  Then placed solder and solder rings on the stay bolts on that side, heated it up, and flashed the solder. Twice, as is my current habit.
I was having problems with the torch on the second side – it just didn’t give me as much flame and heat as before.  I kept turning it up, but nothing would change.  Turns out, I was running low on propane! Yikes!  But luckily, by being persistent, I was still able to get it up to temp and flash all six solder rings, even the second time.  But it took longer than it should have.  I think that’s why it looks like such a crispy critter here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-10-DSC_3171.jpg)

Because of my torch/fuel problem, and how it looked (so super black!) I was worried that I’d really messed up and ruined something.  But I waited for the boiler to cool and put it in the pickle.  Only time would tell...

After that, I went to the store and exchanged my propane tank for a full one!  There might have been a little bit left – enough to solder something small, with a small burner tip.  But there’s no way there was enough for the kinds of solder sessions I’ve been doing using those big burners!

OK, so once back from the store I pulled the boiler up out of the pickle and took a look.  While I couldn’t give the whole boiler a look over, I’m pleased to say that what I could see looked good :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-11-DSC_3175.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202b-SolderingStayBolts-12-DSC_3178.jpg)

I’d had some hair-brained idea that I could solder both the outside and inside of the staybolts today.  But there was no way.  The insides will have to be soldered tomorrow.  I don’t know if that will be easier or harder…  I’m kinda thinking I’ll back off to the 32mm burner (one size down from where I was at today with the 35mm).  It makes just a tad smaller flame, and I think that may be good for inside the firebox.  It will likely hold the heat better than the outside area did.  In fact, it might hold the heat TOO well… guess we’ll see!

Thanks for following along,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2023, 01:29:24 AM
Great job on the outside  bolts, hope that the  inside  goes as well! Does kozo show shields for the other joints on the inside as well?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 24, 2023, 02:23:41 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 24, 2023, 03:46:35 AM
Awesome!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 04:09:35 AM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, and Todd!  :cheers:

Does kozo show shields for the other joints on the inside as well?

Hmm... I'll have to look at the book again to know for sure.  But now that I think about it, it seems like he may show the shield on the picture for soldering the inside of the staybolts, not the outside.  I'll have to double-check.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2023, 01:18:51 PM
Now that you have a  fresh propane tank, you may want to revisit your regulator setting too. You may have opened it too much thinking it was the issue, when it was the tank being low?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on March 24, 2023, 03:32:38 PM
Were you able to get the chips from drilling through the inner walls of the firebox out of the inside of the boiler, or will they just have to stay there?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 05:07:55 PM
Now that you have a  fresh propane tank, you may want to revisit your regulator setting too. You may have opened it too much thinking it was the issue, when it was the tank being low?
Oh!  Very good point!  I'll have to back off the regulator for sure!  That could cause problems! :o   :Mad:
Thanks for mentioning that!

Chris, have you noticed the torch acting differently as the tank gets close to empty?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 05:10:55 PM
Were you able to get the chips from drilling through the inner walls of the firebox out of the inside of the boiler, or will they just have to stay there?
Yes, I was able to dump the chips out the front of the boiler since the front tube sheet isn't in place yet.

And after all my deburring rattled the boiler around and blew air through all the holes till I didn't get any more chips out and heard no more rattling.  So I think I got it pretty well emptied of chips.   ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2023, 05:31:26 PM
Now that you have a  fresh propane tank, you may want to revisit your regulator setting too. You may have opened it too much thinking it was the issue, when it was the tank being low?
Oh!  Very good point!  I'll have to back off the regulator for sure!  That could cause problems! :o   :Mad:
Thanks for mentioning that!

Chris, have you noticed the torch acting differently as the tank gets close to empty?

Kim
Yes, like you saw, the flame size decreases, less heat produced. I had same thing once, ran out in the middle of a session, learned to heft the tank before starting to make sure it was not getting low. You can look up the weight of the empty tanks online and weigh it to get a better idea of how much you have left. You'll never use all of whats in the tank.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 10:08:30 PM
Thanks Chris!
Good to know I'm not the only one who sees this.

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2023, 10:17:28 PM
To do the backside of the staybolts, I started by taking the staybolt nuts off.  It was a bit of a struggle, but I got there.  I ended up using those pointy vise-grips to get a few of them started.  And that actually worked pretty well and I didn’t mess any of them up too badly.   But removing them allowed me to get flux under the nut, so it was well worth the effort.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-1-DSC_3181.jpg)


I ended up using the vice-grips for re-assembly too, fluxing the nuts as I went and placing rings of solder around each staybolt nut. I then set it up on the hearth.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-2-DSC_3187.jpg)

Here’s a close-up of the inside of the firebox.  You can see I also put a small circle of flux on top of the threads.  I want to make sure the threads get silver solder in them too!   Also, note that I crammed some rock wool inside the firetubes and down in the crown of the firebox.  The goal of this was to prevent the top of the firebox from getting so much direct flame.  That is one of the things that caused me problems earlier if you recall.  I also used extra-easy grade solder for these joints to help prevent over-heating of the rest of the completed joints.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-3-DSC_3186.jpg)

One thing I tried differently this time is to do some of the early heating across the whole boiler.   I don’t want to get it all silver solder hot, but I the whole unit needs to get a LOT warmer before I will be able to get my target area hot enough to melt silver solder.  And I don't want to have to add ALL of the heat through the area with flux on it!  Especially when I’m blasting the flame right on the flux, as opposed to applying it from the back side, which is my preference, when possible.  When you have to blast the flame right on the fluxed area it seems to boil the flux away much faster (even the black flux) so that it’s gone by the time the unit gets up to temp.   Anyway, after a while, I put the bricks back over the top and moved to just applying heat via the firebox area.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-4-DSC_3191.jpg)

After a bit, I got it all up to temp and flashed all the solder.  Again, I did a second round of solder.  It was so hot in there I had to wear gloves to apply the flux-dipped solder with the tweezers.  The staybolts are pretty deep in the firebox too.  But I got it done and flashed the second round of solder.

With that side done I used gloves and channellocks as tongs to re-arrange the firebricks and flip the boiler over so I could do the opposite side.  Same drill as above – apply flux-dipped solder and flash.  Then do it again. Here’s the final result:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-5-DSC_3195.jpg)

I did want to share this with you all – I should probably put it in the “stupid moves” sub-forum, but here it is anyway.  Yesterday after doing one of my second applications of flux-dipped solder, I apparently forgot to move the flux back to a safe place and left it WAY too close to the action.  You can see the result.  Luckily, I can still get the lid on but I don’t think it seals very well.  So as of yesterday, I’m keeping my Harris Black  Stay-silv flux in a ziplock bag to help keep it from drying out.  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202c-SolderingStayBolts-6-DSC_3200.jpg)

Anyway, after letting the part cool I put it in the pickle.

Hopefully, we’ll get good news later!

Thanks for looking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2023, 10:54:11 PM
Quite an operation,  hopefully it  sealed well all round!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 25, 2023, 02:13:11 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I do miss tins that used to be used to package things like flux. Much more practical for hot work areas than plastics. My personal favourite is resting a piece I've just welded on the first convenient thing, that piece if sheetmetal on - something- oh yeah! that's the garbage pail, now melting under the sheetmetal !  :o :zap:  :Lol: I've probably melted as much plastic in the shop with silly incidents as my local injection moulder!

Fingers crossed on the inner firebox soldering op! The pickle bath knows all, tells all.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 04:09:11 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!

And here are the results from the pickle judge:

All six of the staybolt nuts look well covered on this side – at least from what I can see – visibility for the far side isn’t that great.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202d-SolderingStayBolts-1-DSC_3208.jpg)

And the other side looks pretty good two.  The back staybolt nut on the left still has a bit of unmelted solder on it.  That’s a little messy, but it still looks like it has an adequate fillet all around.  There's a bizarre spot in front of the front right staybolt.  This looks to be where I may have drug the pointy stick through the solder as it was solidifying and it just left a nice flat like that.  Or something... I don't know for sure.  But it's solder, not a hole or anything.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/202d-SolderingStayBolts-2-DSC_3213.jpg)

So, all in all, not bad.  Doesn’t look like I ruined anything else yet.  At least, not obviously anyway :)

Tomorrow will be the front tube sheet, which is the last step before hydro-testing!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 25, 2023, 04:55:28 AM
Looking great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I haven't seen you ruin or wreck anything yet. Just seen you make some good recoveries from normal sorts of shop mishaps. A boiler is a major project. :cheers:

(re shop mishaps - people looking in my scrap bin have been heard to say "I didn't know metal could be totally destroyed that way." or "did that happen on an artillery range during live firing?") :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 05:58:32 AM
Thanks, Jeff!  :cheers:

I have a few pieces like that in my scrap bin too!   ;D

I think it comes with the territory of learning something new!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on March 25, 2023, 12:57:13 PM
Looking good Kim,

You must e pleased, :)

Do you worry that you will muck some of the silver soldering that has already been completed, when soldering new components, like the stay bolts?
Thanks
Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 25, 2023, 01:29:32 PM
 :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 04:00:12 PM
Looking good Kim,

You must e pleased, :)

Do you worry that you will muck some of the silver soldering that has already been completed, when soldering new components, like the stay bolts?
Thanks
Gary

Yup, that's my primary worry, Gary.  I 'try' not to heat things up more than necessary, but it seems to be necessary to get things quite hot, you know? And I worry about it.  Guess we'll see soon enough when I get to the hydro test!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 25, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
There's a bizarre spot in front of the front right staybolt.

This looks like a stray piece of debris from exploding metal used for the shields. I have seen similar things; sometimes even interfering with the solder by landing before the solder has melted..

New metal shields are OK, but the heavily burned used ones can eject flakes when reheated.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 04:10:54 PM
There's a bizarre spot in front of the front right staybolt.

This looks like a stray piece of debris from exploding metal used for the shields. I have seen similar things; sometimes even interfering with the solder by landing before the solder has melted..

New metal shields are OK, but the heavily burned used ones can eject flakes when reheated.

Gene

Thanks Gene!  You're right. That's exactly what it was!  I had a few pieces of crud fall into the sodering area this time and I didn't know what it was.  I was able to pointy-stick theym out of the way before they caused any problems.  And I'm absolutely certain that that's what happened there.  Makes perfect sense.

New lesson learned - clean metal shields before re-use! I clearly didn't do that (though I thought about it, but clearly never followed through).

Thank you!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Oh, another thing I just remembered I wanted to say; For soldering the inside of the staybolts I decide to use the extra-easy grade of silver solder. My thinking here was this would help reduce the chance of overheating for all the rest of the existing joints.

I went back and added that to my original post on the inside staybolts.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2023, 09:05:56 PM
Chapter 23.23 – Silver Soldering the Front Tube Sheet

Today is a momentous day!  I’m attaching the last part of the boiler!  The front tube sheet.  What fun!

I started by working the front tube sheet into place.  You have to fit it inside the boiler shell, fit all three tubes in it, and thread the steam pipe and blower pipes through their respective holes.  Not impossible, but challenging.  I can’t imagine what people with a dozen or more tubes do!  That must be nuts!

With the front tube sheet fitted in the right place, I proceeded to wiggle it up and down and work it around to get the best average of all the constraints. Not only should it be square with the sides, it's also supposed to project 1/4" out from the boiler shell, and the overall boiler length should be 12 3/4" from the surface of the backhead (not the top of the bushings).

I placed 8-32 screws in the smokebox studs to give me a way to pull it out a little as needed (there's very little to hold onto there), and proceeded to tap and nudge it into the best place. In the end, I settled for meeting the 12 3/4" length requirement, but only getting a 7/32”-15/64" protrusion, just shy of the specified 1/4". But I think that’ll be fine.  The smokebox will still have plenty of edge to register on.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/203a-SolderingFrontTubeSheet-1-DSC_3220.jpg)

Not sure how I ended up with a shorter protrusion than specified.  If anything, I’d have guessed I’d need more protrusion to make up for the firebox fiasco of a few weeks ago. But I must have made up for that in other ways.  And one of them, apparently, was using up some of the extra length of the boiler tubes.  Those should protrude from the front tube sheet by 5/64”.  One of them just barely peeks over the edge, and none of them is the full 5/64”.   But as long as I can get a good solder joint there that doesn’t leak, I don't think that will matter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/203a-SolderingFrontTubeSheet-2-DSC_3224.jpg)

Kozo recommends not to use any hold-down screws in this piece as it is not needed.  And clearly, he was right.

With it fit in the right spot, I added flux and solder (extra-easy) and set it up on the hearth.  I also put some of that Nicrobraz Green Stop-off on the threads of the studs (the white stuff) to help keep solder out of the threads.  Again, I started with the front set of bricks removed so I could add some heat on other parts of the boiler to help get things started.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/203a-SolderingFrontTubeSheet-3-DSC_3227.jpg)

After things started heating up I stacked the firebricks back in place and proceeded to focus on the top of the boiler, eventually getting all the solder to flash, working my way around the outside edge, and dodging in to pick up the studs and tubes as I got to that area.  After flashing all the solder I removed the flame and added another round of flux-dipped solder to all of the joints, then went around with the torch and flashed it all again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/203a-SolderingFrontTubeSheet-4-DSC_3230.jpg)

After a lengthy cool-down period I plopped it in the pickle.  It was weird this time – I had to let the pickle bubble into the mostly enclosed boiler.  Took a while to get it filled!  That’ll be interesting to drain it all back out again.

And we’ll see how it came out after the pickle…

Kim

P.S. The suspense is killing me!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 25, 2023, 09:11:41 PM
That's a milestone Kim!
Glad that is all went well.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 25, 2023, 09:42:34 PM
Suspenseful  music is playing...    :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 25, 2023, 09:50:44 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 26, 2023, 12:08:00 AM
Looking forward to the "Big Reveal"!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2023, 05:00:56 AM
Drum roll in the background, as they start to hoist the boiler out of the pickle bath...

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/203b-SolderingFrontTubeSheet-1-DSC_3235.jpg)

Not bad! The only place that concerns me is just to the left of the upper boiler tube (upper in this picture anyway).  The solder doesn't show a nice fillet around the outside edge along there.  It may connect underneath, and it may not - hard to tell.

But I may just try a hydro test and see if I find any leaks before I try and repair it. :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 26, 2023, 06:01:00 AM
Woot! Woot!  Excellent work, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 26, 2023, 12:34:37 PM
Congratulations for having reached one of the biggest Milestones in this Journey Kim  :praise2:   :praise2:

I'm aware of the fact that you aren't completely finished with the Boiler - but it should be down to tracking pin-holes now  :)   :)            :cheers:


Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on March 26, 2023, 12:43:12 PM
Drum roll definitely warranted, Kim, even with those leak tests and full hydro test to come.

You have done a magnificent job and it is great to be following such a beautifully presented log.

Even if there is a pin hole or two, I am sure you will have no trouble fixing it with your careful technique.  Then on to installing on the chassis.

MJM460
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2023, 05:15:41 PM
Thank you Tood, Per, and MJM!  :cheers:

I'm looking forward to testing this boiler!  Undoubtedly there'll be some repairs needed, but it does feel good to get to this point for sure!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 26, 2023, 05:25:46 PM
The boiler front looks good.
It will be an exciting moment to start the pressure test.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 26, 2023, 05:37:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 26, 2023, 06:14:13 PM
Excellent!  Set the boiler out on the bench and just sit and look at it for a while, you deserve it!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2023, 06:57:04 PM
Thank you, Michael, Jeff, and Chris!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 26, 2023, 08:20:34 PM
Awesome…. :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2023, 12:47:21 AM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2023, 12:58:50 AM
Chapter 23.24 – Hydrostatic Testing

Today I made a bunch of little plugs and fittings that I’ll need to do the hydrostatic testing of the boiler.

I didn’t take a lot of pictures because it was just a bunch of basic turning. But I did take a few highlights!

One is that I didn’t have a 1/2"-20 die, so I attempted to single-point the threads.  Unfortunately, I have no 1/2-20 nuts to test it with, and it was too hard to get the boiler up there to test with it.  Turns out I had a 1/2-20 hex chaser die in some cheapo HF tap & die set, so I used that as my ‘test fit’.  I got it close, then just used that to ‘fix’ the threads.  This is for connecting the water fill hole to the pressure gauge.  But eventually, I’ll have to make a plug that doesn’t have a hole in it for the actual water plug.  This method worked OK, but I think I’m going to get a real 1/2-20 die for making the real plug!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204a-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3239.jpg)

Then to connect to the pressure gauge I needed a 1/4" NTP tap.  I had thought ahead enough to have one of these on hand.  I don’t really like NTP threads, but that’s what the pressure gauge came with.  So that’s what I’m using.  I find NTP taps hard to get started. So what I did was to drill the stated tap drill size (7/16"), then drill a pretend taper in the top 0.15" where I went up in drill sizes 1/64 at a time, 0.050" each stage. Now the top opening is 31/64 which was big enough to get the 1/4" NTP tap started. And by the time I finished tapping, the stair-stepped taper I made was completely cut away by the wider part of the taper tap.  So I guess my method worked.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204a-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3243.jpg)

Here are all the fittings and plugs I made today. Plus the pressure gauge (which I didn’t make).  All the brass fittings connected to that gnarly-looking copper tube are pieces from testing my traction engine boiler, as is the pump.  Dave Otto kindly donated the casting for this pump to me several years ago when I was doing the steam tractor.  It has been used several times since then and it will be used again! Thank you Dave!  :ThumbsUp: ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204a-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3245.jpg)

I silver-soldered the brass tube into a couple of the fittings for the pressure gauge.  And then just to make sure everything fit, and that I didn’t forget any openings, I dry fit it all together.  I think it should work!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204a-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3249.jpg)

I’m going to have to add gaskets or Loctite sealer to all the plugs and fittings before I actually do the test.  But I think I’ve got all the parts ready to go for next time!

Thanks for looing in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 27, 2023, 01:44:24 AM
Great setup! On mine I  used teflon tape on the threads, quick and easy, easy to strip off again.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 27, 2023, 02:17:57 AM
Providence bless this ship boiler and all those who sail in her.  :thinking:  :Lol:  :cheers:

(Or another happy blessing, for your hydro test! Good luck!)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2023, 04:56:22 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!
Yeah, Ive used Teflon tape before too.   Not sure what I'll use...  :thinking:

Providence bless this ship boiler and all those who sail in her.  :thinking:  :Lol:  :cheers:

(Or another happy blessing, for your hydro test! Good luck!)
Thanks for the customize boiler blessing!  I think it's helping already!   ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: EricB on March 27, 2023, 05:33:18 AM
Don't forget to cover the steam dome!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 27, 2023, 03:38:37 PM
Lookin' good, Kim.  Good luck with the test!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2023, 05:54:33 PM
Don't forget to cover the steam dome!
Thanks Eric!

Yeah, I remembered about the steam dome last night.  Guess that's the first thing I'll be doing today - making the steam dome plug!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2023, 05:55:03 PM
Lookin' good, Kim.  Good luck with the test!
Thanks Todd!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2023, 12:23:51 AM
I turned and drilled some 1.5” brass to make a plug for the steam dome. Then I made a gasket from some paper gasket material I had.  I used a cheap HF punch to make the holes (and then I had reamed them out a bit with an X-Acto knife  :embarassed:).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3258.jpg)

I decided to try O-rings to hold the seal on the other plugs.  I’ve got a whole set of them and just picked the one that seemed to fit well for each of the plugs:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3260.jpg)

I put it all together and forgot to take a picture.

Then started filling the boiler.  Remember back in post #2656 when MJM referred to the leak test and full hydro test?  Guess that was a foreshadowing of today’s excitment.  As I started to fill the boiler water started to trickle onto the bench.  No pressure required...  It took me a while to find where it was coming from. Partly because it was coming from at least two places.

The first one I found was the questionable area around the front tube sheet.  I should have just filled that in the other day when I questioned it.  Guess I hoped to get lucky.  But no luck was to be had.  And with all the excitement of water running around everywhere, I forgot to take pictures.  Luckily, I have B-roll from my photo archive that will have to do.  I circled the two areas that looked to be patched.  I’m not sure if the upper one is leaking for sure, but it didn’t have a solder fillet so I figured I’d catch that spot while I’m at it regardless.  The lower one was very clearly leaking.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3235.jpg)

The second spot that was leaking was in one of those ugly foundation ring joints.  I found this old picture of it and now that I know where to look, I can clearly see the pin hole.  It produced a very nice little leak.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3078.jpg)

So, I cleaned up my water mess on my assembly table, dried off the boiler, and prepped it for soldering.  I caulked the leaking spots with a little bit of copper swarf on the front sheet leak and a little bit of 30 gauge copper wire on the foundation ring leak.

I started with the boiler on end, fluxed and added solder (extra-easy) to the forward joint. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3263.jpg)

After heating things up a bit I closed up the front of the setup with firebricks then proceeded to heat the front-sheet/boiler-shell joint and flash the solder.  Then rearranged things on the hearth to make the foundation ring patch area accessible and proceeded to add flux/solder and flash that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204b-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3266.jpg)

After it cooled for an hour I put it in the pickle.

And tomorrow, we’ll proceed with leak-test 2.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2023, 12:28:36 AM
Good finds, and I'm sure you'll be able to plug them all. I went through the same sequence on my first boiler, in those same places plus a couple of stay bolts and a bushing if I recall correctly. The really tiny pinholes don't show till you get some pressure on the water. Several boilers in and I had more trouble with the test rig leaking at its pipes than on the boiler - practice practice practice!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2023, 12:33:46 AM
Thanks for the encouragement, Chris!

It helps!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 28, 2023, 01:25:04 AM
Minor setbacks Kim, a few small leaks like these are not a big deal. (believe me I have seen FAR worse on a first hydro test.) Hope your re-solder will get it plugged and pressure-ready.   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on March 28, 2023, 02:27:18 AM
Hi Kim, I am sure you will be able to fix those, and your re-soldering probably already has.

I am hoping I did not jinx you by mentioning leak test then hydro.

I was referring to full size practice in the oil industry where a system test might involve tons of water.  It was often found that low pressure air and an inspection with soapy water, not a trivial task on a large and complex system, was as sensitive as anything else and did not involving tons of water in case of leaks.  Sometimes a higher pressure was found to make the leaks harder to find, only to have them appear later when things were heated up in operation.  I expect this was mostly about gasket leaks as each part of welded construction had already been fully tested. 

I fully expect you will find most leaks with your system still at low pressure, and then the full pressure is more about proving the strength of the construction than finding further leaks.

As an interesting aside, simply carrying out that two time design pressure hydro test has the effect of blunting any crack initiating points and potentially deforming the shell a bit in the direction that reduces stress, so makes it stronger.  Further testing then does not further deform the shell, so the inspectors test can then be successful.

Wishing you success in the next tests,

MJM460


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 28, 2023, 03:07:13 AM
All part of the process, Kim.  We know you shall win the day.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2023, 05:03:10 AM
Thanks Jeff, MJM, and Todd!  :cheers:

No, MJM, I don't think you jinxed me!  I just hadn't thought that far ahead.  Of course, a leak test makes perfect sense!  It's what I planned to do, I just thought I'd get a little pressure - you'd think leaks like that I would have noticed during rinsing.  But apparently not! :)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2023, 05:05:17 AM
The two areas that I patched today look much better.
Here’s the front tube sheet.  No question today!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204c-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3272.jpg)

And the small hole in the foundation ring joint is gone.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204c-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3274.jpg)

I tried to plug the holes with my fingers while I was washing the boiler and see if it still leaked from those spots.  It looks good.  At least, it wasn’t leaking as fast as before!  :embarassed:

I’ll give it the full leak test with all the plugs tomorrow.  Then we'll find the next set of leaks to fix!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2023, 06:06:10 AM
 :cartwheel:   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 28, 2023, 01:17:21 PM
It does look good! Nice repairs!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on March 28, 2023, 08:42:27 PM
Of course, a leak test makes perfect sense!

The pundits always warn, "Don't use air for a pressure test!!!!!!!". Of course they are correct, but a few PSI of air for a leak test is completely safe and can be quite informative.

Just add a few PSI of air and dunk the entire assembly into your pickle tank or some other large water container.

It is advised to minimize the number of reheats after the boiler is completed. Nothing gets better by itself, and sometimes things can loosen up. There are stresses that did not exist earlier.

Finding the maximum number of problem areas before going into one-by-one repair processes is good. Air bubbles can sometimes be easier to trace than slow water leaks during a hydrotest.

I do not expect you will find many problems because you very carefully examined everything as you went along.   :cartwheel:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 28, 2023, 08:50:08 PM
Of course, a leak test makes perfect sense!

The pundits always warn, "Don't use air for a pressure test!!!!!!!". Of course they are correct, but a few PSI of air for a leak test is completely safe and can be quite informative.

Just add a few PSI of air and dunk the entire assembly into your pickle tank or some other large water container.

It is advised to minimize the number of reheats after the boiler is completed. Nothing gets better by itself, and sometimes things can loosen up. There are stresses that did not exist earlier.

Finding the maximum number of problem areas before going into one-by-one repair processes is good. Air bubbles can sometimes be easier to trace than slow water leaks during a hydrotest.

I do not expect you will find many problems because you very carefully examined everything as you went along.   :cartwheel:

Gene
That reminds me of how I  have leak tested water tight cylinders for  my RC submarines,  I  hooked up a flexible plastic tube to one of the fittings , dunked the cylider under water, and just blew into the other end of the tube. Very quick check for obvious leaks without dangerous  levels of pressure, even if some have called me a blowhard!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 28, 2023, 09:39:00 PM
What I have done to check displacer pistons for hot air engines, is to submerge them in hot water. The pressure rise from the heat is enough to show any leaks.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 28, 2023, 10:38:21 PM
Thanks, Chris, Jeff, Gene and Dave!

I appreciate the advice here. In fact, this is basically what I did today!

Based on MJMs suggestion, and as bolstered by many of you here, I hooked up some air to the boiler.  My plan was to use very low pressure, like 1 PSI or less – as low as my little regulator would go, just barely cracked open.  Here was my leak test setup.  The only reason I had the pressure gauge in there was to plug that top hole.  It didn’t even register with the super low pressure I was using.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204d-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3277.jpg)

As soon as I cracked open the air I could hear it escaping. I could feel it too, but it was hard to tell exactly where it was coming from.  I hoped it was one of the plug fittings but I couldn’t tell.  So, I sprayed some soapy water around the area and that allowed me to track it down pretty quickly.  I found a small leak along the top of the fire door ring.  I tried to circle it with black ink.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204d-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3282.jpg)

I felt around for any other leaks, but couldn’t find any at this low pressure.  The areas I patched yesterday seemed to be solid and I didn’t feel any other leaks, at least, not at this low pressure. I’m sure they’re there.  I’ll just have to patch this one to find them though.

So I did my patch routine, set it up on the hearth, and added some solder in that area.  I also added some around the staybolt just above the firedoor and the two bronze screws on either side of it.  I don’t know that there are any problems there, but since that area would be getting hot, I figured it wouldn’t hurt to have a little additional insurance.

Here’s the after-soldering shot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204d-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3283.jpg)

I let it cool, put it in the pickle, and did some other things around the shop.  Before I went in I pulled the boiler up out of the pickle vat and took a shot of the backhead.  The backhead is upside down here, so the patched area is along the bottom of the fire door ring in this picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204d-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3288.jpg)

While it looks like my patch was successful, I can see that the solder is kind of cold.  I used extra-easy for the patch, but it still didn’t melt and flow as well as I’d have liked.  I remember that this area (along the top of the fire door) gave me grief when I first soldered it too.  That may be why this area had the pinhole.  Must be something about this area that is making it hard to get it up to soldering temperatures. Like the extra mass of the joint strap on the fire door ring or something.

Dunking the boiler in water would have been a really good idea to help me catch any other potential leaks.  Unfortunately, I hadn't read all of your helpful posts till after I came in today.  Ah well... live and learn, right? :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 28, 2023, 10:50:44 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 29, 2023, 03:53:46 AM
One step at a time.  Looking forward to more updates.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2023, 05:26:00 AM
Thank you, Jeff and Todd!

I took the boiler out of the pickle tonight and washed it off.   The fixes looked good.

I wasn’t going to do anything more tonight, but I thought – hey, just a quick leak test!  That won’t take long and then I’ll know what tomorrow looks like.

So, I hooked up the plugs and used just a smidge of air pressure and the soapy water.  Found four more leaks.  These are little tiny fracture kinds of things.  I put the soapy water all around but didn’t find any other leaks.  I’ll check again tomorrow before I go in for the repair soldering.  But here’s what I’ve got now. They are all marked with a black sharpie:

Three little leak areas around the lower tubes in the front tube sheet.  Hope I didn’t make these when I was repairing the hole in the lower part of the tube sheet… They seem to be little fracture cracks around the tubes... :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204e-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3292.jpg)

And a little bitty leak on the upper side of the top stay bolt above the fire door hole – on the INSIDE of the firebox. This one’s going to be a challenge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204e-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3298.jpg)

Hopefully, I can get these repaired tomorrow without causing more problems… Any thoughts on how to do that will be greatly appreciated.  I’m trying to minimize heat, and let it cool slowly before pickling.  Any other suggestions?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: 10KPete on March 29, 2023, 07:12:59 AM
Something I learned decades ago fabricating high vacuum systems: After you pickle/etch/whatever rinsing won't clear the crack completely. Soak the thing in clean water for a few hours and give the contaminating ions time to work their way out of the crack. Then dry, etc..  This seemed to solve welding/brazing/soldering issues 90% of the time or better.

Cheap and easy and can keep your brain intact!

Beautiful work you are doing. I've been following.....

Pete
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Zephyrin on March 29, 2023, 09:06:44 AM
hi,
the grainy aspect of some solderings makes me think that they lack a little bit of heat...
there are solders with different silver content, 20,40,50,55%, which melt at slightly lower temperatures according to the silver content, this is very useful for rework, always a very stressful procedure!
I have often noticed that re-melting a brazed joint requires more heat than making a new one, a great help while reworking a part; I admit that this is not very quantitative, just an impressions...

 anyway, the great care with which you make this boiler is certainly a guarantee of success, and especially to avoid irreparable leaks at the end.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2023, 06:22:37 PM
Thank you, Pete and Zephyrin!  :cheers:

I appreciate the suggestions and comments.

I am currently using 'extra-easy' grade solder for the repairs, which is the lowest temp, lower silver content hard solder that I've seen.  The lower silver-content solders I've seen are soft solders.  But at some point, maybe I should move to that for patches?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 29, 2023, 06:28:07 PM
Thank you, Pete and Zephyrin!  :cheers:

I appreciate the suggestions and comments.

I am currently using 'extra-easy' grade solder for the repairs, which is the lowest temp, lower silver content hard solder that I've seen.  The lower silver-content solders I've seen are soft solders.  But at some point, maybe I should move to that for patches?

Kim
Don't go to the soft solders unless there is no chance that you need to do any more hard soldering on those parts. The hard solder wont work over the soft. I remember doing one last pinhole fix on my firebox with soft solder after failing to fix it several times with hard solder. In my case I knew I'd only run on compressed air, never on coal, so I was not worried about the fire melting the soft solder. If you are going to coal fire, I wouldn't think soft solder would be good for anything near/in the firebox.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2023, 06:39:29 PM
Thank you, Pete and Zephyrin!  :cheers:

I appreciate the suggestions and comments.

I am currently using 'extra-easy' grade solder for the repairs, which is the lowest temp, lower silver content hard solder that I've seen.  The lower silver-content solders I've seen are soft solders.  But at some point, maybe I should move to that for patches?

Kim
Don't go to the soft solders unless there is no chance that you need to do any more hard soldering on those parts. The hard solder wont work over the soft. I remember doing one last pinhole fix on my firebox with soft solder after failing to fix it several times with hard solder. In my case I knew I'd only run on compressed air, never on coal, so I was not worried about the fire melting the soft solder. If you are going to coal fire, I wouldn't think soft solder would be good for anything near/in the firebox.

Good point, Chris.

I'm not ready to do soft solder yet.  I'm pretty sure there are no more parts to add to the boiler - at least, not with soldering.  Lots of parts will screw into those studs and bushes.  But no more soldering.  Other than patching holes...  But you're right.  Probably need to keep the soft solder away from the firebox!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2023, 10:10:54 PM
This morning I set up a bath to test my boiler.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3308.jpg)

This is definitely a more sensitive test than the spray with water and soap!  I confirmed the four leaks I found last night and found two more.  The newly discovered leaks were around the joint with the steam dome base:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3310.jpg)

The submersion test is a great test – you can a little stream of bubbles coming from the boiler and you just have to find where they’re coming from.

I had made what I thought was a fairly careful search of all joints, studs, and bushes last night, using the soapy water trick.  But this morning with the water bath, I did it again.  And I’m glad I did!

I’m not saying there are no other leaks, but I couldn’t find them at this stage.

These leaks will be harder to fix because there is no specific hole that I can see.  Not even a hairline fracture is visible in some cases.  But I tried my best to prepare each area, get it cleaned up and fluxed, and such.

I started with the boiler sitting on end and focused initially on the firebox leak. This is the one that’s hardest to get to.  I used the 32mm burner – it’s a little smaller and slightly more focused than the bigger ones,  but still puts out a lot of heat.   It seemed to work.  I also cleaned the metal coverings I had been using around the firebox and had those in place.  After getting that solder (extra-easy) to flash I quickly covered up the opening to help things cool more slowly and evenly (and stupidly chose to take the picture of that, rather than the more interesting one of the firebox visible).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3315.jpg)

Next, I moved to the front tubes and worked on patching those leaks.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3314.jpg)

And finally, I rearranged things to get the boiler laying on its side to address the steam dome base.  I tried to do a mental trade off of the faster cooling while moving the boiler around vs a whole second heating if I waited, pickled and cleaned, and decided to address all the leaks I knew about in one session.  Hopefully that was a good choice.  But it seems minimizing heating is a good idea.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3318.jpg)

After addressing all the leaks I covered any openings to help things cool more slowly and evenly, and that’s where it sits now.  Still cooling its heels out on the hearth.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204f-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3321.jpg)

Once it cools down to where I can touch it, I’ll move it to the pickle and we’ll try the same experiment again tomorrow.

Hopefully, I haven’t created more problems that I solved in this round. Guess we’ll find out!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 29, 2023, 10:16:48 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 30, 2023, 08:52:12 AM
Hello Kim, I have a question about soldering with silver solder.
If you now re-solder the leaking spots, do you only heat the existing solder or do you add small pieces of silver solder to the seam beforehand?
Unfortunately, I have no experience of soldering such complex boilers. I have only soldered some copper ship's boilers with silver solder. Boiler of 89 or 102 mm diameter. Everything for model boats.
Always bring the whole boiler up to temperature with the big burner from the roof covering. previously coated with the flux and then always soldered with the long rods of the coated silver solder. Now there are places on your boiler where it's not that easy or you can't get to it at all.
I just want to say that I resoldered the small holes with coated silver solder. The flux works wonderfully. And you can see where something needs to be added.

just a thought from me.
I wish you from the heart you have him now tight.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on March 30, 2023, 09:55:11 AM
I've watched experts demonstrating soldering technique, and have never managed to do it their way.  Like Picasso making a masterpiece with a single stroke of the brush, they seem to be able to heat a joint and poke at it with the solder and whoosh - it flows right round by magic.

Like Kim, I prefer to lay bits of solder on the joint and heat until it flashes into the gap.  By heating from below (or around the joint if that's not possible), so the solder is melted by contact with the metal, rather than by the flame, I can be sure the whole joint is the right temperature (and no more), so the solder gets right inside and fuses properly.

Your (and the experts) poke-it-with-a-stick-of-solder approach probably achieves the same objective, that the joint has to be properly hot or it just won't go.

You note that bringing the whole boiler up to temperature is desirable.  Yes it is, but with a big boiler this can become impractical.  Steve and I set fire to his garage before we moved on to more a more subtle approach.  It does pay to heat enough of it that the expansion is even around the joint being addressed.  This is much easier with two people.

Wilf

PS - keep plugging away at it, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on March 30, 2023, 12:54:43 PM
Do you need to pickle before testing again?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2023, 06:02:24 PM
Hello Kim, I have a question about soldering with silver solder.
If you now re-solder the leaking spots, do you only heat the existing solder or do you add small pieces of silver solder to the seam beforehand?
Hi Michael, I never rely on the old solder to flow into cracks or leaks.  It seems to take more heat to get old solder to reflow than it does to get unused solder to flow.  Which is a good thing for this rework.  I have seen old solder reflow though, but I tend not to like it when it does. It means I got things too hot.

And, as Wilf said, I always put bits of solder on the joint, with flux, before I heat. I have tried the 'poke it with solder' bit.  And sometimes it works.  More often than not, the solder starts to ball up on the end, which means the solder is melting from the heat of the flame, not from the heat of the metal.  And once it balls up, it has now melted once and seems to be harder to get to remelt where I want it to.  If I remove the flame, it helps, but then the metal has to already be hot enough to melt the solder.  I find it hard to hit that sweet spot where the metal is hot enough to melt the solder and the metal hasn't oxidized.  Once you remove the flame, the metal starts to oxidize.  The flame burns the oxidization away...

Anyway, I know it can work, but it's not what works for me, with my level of experience anyway.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2023, 06:04:26 PM
Do you need to pickle before testing again?
I don't know that you NEED to pickle before re-testing, but you certainly have to let it cool down.  The other thing is, if you don't pickle it, there's a lot of flux crust and residue that could hide leaks, or make it difficult to find them.  And, since I need to clean it up before I would do anything else anyway, I just pickle it and get it clean before I test.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2023, 11:00:21 PM
Another low-pressure test today using the submerge-in-water technique.

One thing that really scared me is I started seeing a very slow, periodic bubble, come out of the steam pipe stud on the front of the boiler.  If I had a leak inside that tube, or at one of the joints with the steam pipe stud or the steam dome base, I’d be out of luck.  I have no idea how I could fix that leak!  Luckily, I remembered seeing little bubbles building up around the gasket under the steam dome plug and thought, if air is seeping around/through the gasket, it could be getting into the steam pipe.  Sure enough, I replaced the paper gasket with a few o-rings and it took care of that leakage.  Apparently, that gasket material that I used isn’t waterproof.  Good thing to know before building it into a steam engine!

Here’s the o-ring thing I did, with the old paper gasket sitting next to it on the right.  The dome cover is on the left, just sitting there.  The plug cover provided enough even pressure on the o-rings to keep air from leaking out.  That was nice :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204g-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3332.jpg)

I did, however, find two leaks.  And these are new leaks.  I’m certain they weren’t there before or I’d have found them. So my repairs yesterday caused these leaks I found today.   Not a good sign.

One is in the backhead along the top of the top staybolt. I marked it with a sharpie there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204g-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3324.jpg)

The other one is inside the firebox again.  This time one of the staybolt nuts.  It is (of course) the back one on the left side.  I tried to mark it but it’s hard to get to down there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204g-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3330.jpg)

So, I set about cleaning those two areas and applying flux & solder.  I set up for the one in the firebox first, figuring this one would be the hardest.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204g-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3335.jpg)

And boy, was I right!  :wallbang:  I could not get that solder to flash. I had the heat on it for a LONG time.  Way too long.  I added flux.  I poked it with the Kozo stick.  I could tell it was close as it was all shiny, but it just wouldn’t flash.  It was taking way too long and I was worrying about all the other damage I was causing with this extended heat.

So I finally broke out the Oxy-Acetylene torch and lit that up.  I was able to push it over the edge VERY quickly – probably 10-20 seconds of heat and it melted.

I then set it up on end and put flux & solder on the backhead staybolt area.  This one worked as one would expect and I was able to flash that solder in a very reasonable amount of time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204g-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3337.jpg)

After this, I covered the whole thing with some additional bricks and chunks of the rock wool to cool.

When it’s cool enough, I’ll put it in the pickle.

I don't know why I couldn't get the firebox side stud hot enough to flash.  Maybe I covered too much surface area with the rock wool (I was trying to protect all the other joints in there).  Maybe I used too small of a burner?  I was using the 32mm.  I'd even considered going smaller since I could get a more directed flame, but I knew I'd need a lot of heat.  Glad I didn't try smaller!.  I believe this is the burner I used before in the firebox, but maybe I used the 35mm.  I'll have to check my build log and see if I recorded that here.  I considered moving up a size after I couldn't get it to flash for so long but decided I'd just go with the big guns.  I don't have much acetylene left but clearly had enough to do this! I'm going to have to refill my acetylene tank to have as backup I guess.

So, I'll try again tomorrow.  I'll set up the low-pressure test again and see what horrendous damage I caused with today’s "fixes".  The only thing I can hope is that if I didn’t get it hot enough to flash the extra-easy solder, hopefully, it didn’t damage anything else.  (He says naively…)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2023, 02:00:02 AM
Not uncommon to have a 'new' leak show up if others were fixed, sometimes if there is one large leak it will hide a smaller one.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2023, 04:48:22 AM
Hope you're right, Chris...     :-\

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 31, 2023, 05:23:00 AM
Chris speaks the truth.   A leak will always find the path of least resistance.  Your perseverance will pay off.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2023, 05:24:25 AM
Thank you Todd,
I'll continue to press forward!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on March 31, 2023, 10:24:04 AM
when i have been silver soldering boilers i get most of the copper closer to the temperature required  and used the oxygen to bring the local area up the little bit more  for the solder to run .the heat runs to most of the rest of the copper any way.and you need enough heat
to bring the temperature up in reasonable time or the copper gets dirty and won't run wear it is required it is better to stop and clean
and try again .
john. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on March 31, 2023, 03:43:39 PM
Anytime I have ever had to reheat to patch I have always used quick fast heat and shield as much area as I can from the heat. I have used clamps and varies things to use as heat sinks to protect already soldered area. My two cents…… by the way nice work Kim your persistence will pay off.


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2023, 06:46:59 PM
Thank you for the helpful hints, John and Don.  Much needed and much appreciated!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 31, 2023, 10:06:14 PM
I also agree with what Chris said, and with Don about faster heat for touch ups. Your instinct about getting the O-A torch out for the touch ups was same way I would approach them. Much less risk to existing joints than heating the whole boiler.  :cheers:

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2023, 10:44:04 PM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:

That is the route I tried to take today, though not with the OA setup this time, but with the 50mm burner on the Sievert!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2023, 10:53:24 PM
The results of today’s test showed that yesterday’s leak patches were successful!  This is great!  I was actually very worried about the staybolt inside the firebox.  But it seemed to work!

After an extensive submerged low-pressure test, I came up with five tiny leaks.

The largest (though actually quite small) was along the right side throat sheet.  It emitted a continuous stream of teeny-tiny little bubbles.  I tried to get a picture of it cause I thought it was so cool.  If you look in the center of the photo you can see a vertical line that’s a little lighter than the surrounding area.  That’s the stream of bubbles going up to the surface.  And the similarly colored line going down and to the left of the top of that line are the bubbles floating along the surface before dissipating.  Kinda looks like an upside-down L or something maybe?  Anyway, I thought it was cool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3343.jpg)

Here’s a better look of where that spot is, out of the water.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3349.jpg)

I looked carefully for more bubbles popping on the surface and found a leak around the bell stud:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3347.jpg)

After those two, I had to look really hard, but I did find a few more pinhole leaks around the backhead.  These were a much slower stream of bubbles, but if you looked carefully you could see it.  Here’s one, on the right side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3352.jpg)

And two more on the left side.  There’s a whole series of little pinhole-like dots along there, so I’m going to fill that whole area.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3354.jpg)

After prep, flux, and solder, I moved it to the hearth. (I put flux on all areas to be patched, but don’t place solder on that area till the boiler is oriented for that leak). I started with the back head.  This was the most precarious of the setups so I wanted to prep it while the boiler was cold.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3360.jpg)   

Today, I opted to try the 50mm burner. That’s the biggest size I have.  I’d kind of avoided it before because I worried that it was too indiscriminate with the flame it threw out. And it rather is.  But all of these patches were on the outside and fairly easily accessible, so I decided to give it a try, and it worked a treat!  It followed the motto of heat it up fast, get it done and get the flame away.  I really like how it worked – MUCH faster than using the 32mm burner for sure.

So, after flashing the solder around the backhead, reapplying, and quickly flashing again (my 2x standard for this boiler), I re-oriented the boiler on its side so I could easily get to the throat sheet and did the patch on that. It went very quickly (so quickly, I forgot to take a picture).

Then I did one more re-orientation to put the bell stud on top, added solder, and flashed it quickly.  This picture is before applying the heat, though you can see the boiler is still so hot it dried out and puffed up the flux immediately when it was applied :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-7-DSC_3362.jpg)

With all the detected leak areas patched, I covered up the boiler with more bricks and rock wool to let it cool slowly.

Which, as usual for these days, is where it is right now.

I’m feeling much more optimistic about things today. The leaks I found are getting really small and the silver soldering went so much better than yesterday. Thank you for all the input and suggestions.  It has really helped!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 31, 2023, 11:12:51 PM
Great finds and fixes!  That picture of the little streamer is cool, before I read the text I thought it was just a scrape mark on the copper. Sounds like the bigger torch nozzle is working well, and I hope that all those other tools and things in the background are farther away than they look in the picture so they dont get melted! 

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
With luck you are finding all the leaks, and the actual pressure test will be a formality!

Once while working on silver soldering out in the driveway in the summer a neighbor came strolling up to see what I was doing, right into the flames path!   :ShakeHead: Had to wave them off to the side, where their eyes got real big when they saw the flame from the torch!   :paranoia:   With the bright sun where they were and me in the shade they hadn't seen it, just heard the roar from the torch.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 01, 2023, 12:58:03 AM
The results of today’s test showed that yesterday’s leak patches were successful!  This is great!  I was actually very worried about the staybolt inside the firebox.  But it seemed to work!

After an extensive submerged low-pressure test, I came up with five tiny leaks.

The largest (though actually quite small) was along the right side throat sheet.  It emitted a continuous stream of teeny-tiny little bubbles.  I tried to get a picture of it cause I thought it was so cool.  If you look in the center of the photo you can see a vertical line that’s a little lighter than the surrounding area.  That’s the stream of bubbles going up to the surface.  And the similarly colored line going down and to the left of the top of that line are the bubbles floating along the surface before dissipating.  Kinda looks like an upside-down L or something maybe?  Anyway, I thought it was cool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3343.jpg)

Here’s a better look of where that spot is, out of the water.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3349.jpg)

I looked carefully for more bubbles popping on the surface and found a leak around the bell stud:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3347.jpg)

After those two, I had to look really hard, but I did find a few more pinhole leaks around the backhead.  These were a much slower stream of bubbles, but if you looked carefully you could see it.  Here’s one, on the right side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3352.jpg)

And two more on the left side.  There’s a whole series of little pinhole-like dots along there, so I’m going to fill that whole area.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3354.jpg)

After prep, flux, and solder, I moved it to the hearth. (I put flux on all areas to be patched, but don’t place solder on that area till the boiler is oriented for that leak). I started with the back head.  This was the most precarious of the setups so I wanted to prep it while the boiler was cold.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3360.jpg)   

Today, I opted to try the 50mm burner. That’s the biggest size I have.  I’d kind of avoided it before because I worried that it was too indiscriminate with the flame it threw out. And it rather is.  But all of these patches were on the outside and fairly easily accessible, so I decided to give it a try, and it worked a treat!  It followed the motto of heat it up fast, get it done and get the flame away.  I really like how it worked – MUCH faster than using the 32mm burner for sure.

So, after flashing the solder around the backhead, reapplying, and quickly flashing again (my 2x standard for this boiler), I re-oriented the boiler on its side so I could easily get to the throat sheet and did the patch on that. It went very quickly (so quickly, I forgot to take a picture).

Then I did one more re-orientation to put the bell stud on top, added solder, and flashed it quickly.  This picture is before applying the heat, though you can see the boiler is still so hot it dried out and puffed up the flux immediately when it was applied :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204h-HydrostaticTesting-7-DSC_3362.jpg)

With all the detected leak areas patched, I covered up the boiler with more bricks and rock wool to let it cool slowly.

Which, as usual for these days, is where it is right now.

I’m feeling much more optimistic about things today. The leaks I found are getting really small and the silver soldering went so much better than yesterday. Thank you for all the input and suggestions.  It has really helped!

Kim

Kim I don't mind ;sayin    that looks like a monumental pain in the *@((*ER to build.....LOTS of stress, and yet   You've done well sir!
   Keep at it!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 01, 2023, 01:25:31 AM
You may have reached the point where it makes sense to try to apply full test pressure. The remaining leaks appear to be quite small and would not be expected to cause any structural issues.

The boiler will definitely "move" when pressurized. Some moves may be positive and others not so positive. But in either case the boiler will be much closer to its working configuration.

In use, those tiny leaks tend to heal up by themselves as they get jammed with crud. Of course it is nice to start with a perfect leak-free boiler.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2023, 05:04:34 AM
Thanks Chris, Dave, and Gene!  :cheers:

You may have reached the point where it makes sense to try to apply full test pressure. The remaining leaks appear to be quite small and would not be expected to cause any structural issues.

The boiler will definitely "move" when pressurized. Some moves may be positive and others not so positive. But in either case the boiler will be much closer to its working configuration.

In use, those tiny leaks tend to heal up by themselves as they get jammed with crud. Of course it is nice to start with a perfect leak-free boiler.

Gene
Yeah, probably about time, isn't it?  I've just been using this low pressure testing because it's much easier to do and to clean up from.  But yeah, tomorrow may be the day when I actually fill the boiler with water and do an official pressure test...

I hope that all those other tools and things in the background are farther away than they look in the picture so they dont get melted! 
Well, I believe they are far enough away.  Haven't been a problem yet.  And yes, I do think they are farther away in reality than they look in the pictures!  :o

Once while working on silver soldering out in the driveway in the summer a neighbor came strolling up to see what I was doing, right into the flames path!   :ShakeHead: Had to wave them off to the side, where their eyes got real big when they saw the flame from the torch!   :paranoia:   With the bright sun where they were and me in the shade they hadn't seen it, just heard the roar from the torch.
That sounds kinda scary!  Good to have neighbors who notice what's going on around the neighborhood though.  That can be really helpful in keeping packages on your porch and things like that!  ;D 

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 01, 2023, 05:48:22 PM
One step (leak) at a time, it looks like you're getting there  :) Good luck for the pressure test  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2023, 09:24:34 PM
Thank you, Roger!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2023, 09:35:10 PM
So, today I went for the real hydro test!  Here was my setup:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204i-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3367.jpg)

Got it all set up, holes plugged, filled with water, and even before I could put any pressure on it, I was noticing a leak.  A pretty good one, I’m afraid.  It took a while to find it. With the water, it just goes everywhere and I found it hard to locate the leak.  Not nearly as straightforward as the immersion test.  I knew it was from somewhere inside the firebox, but I wasn’t quite sure where.  It looked like it was on the firebox to tube sheet interface somewhere.  (Spoiler alert:  It wasn’t there though…)

I drained the water and went back to the submersion low-pressure air test and found it right away. It was inside the firebox alright, but it turns out, it is that nasty staybolt – the same one I tried to fix last time.  Interestingly, it wasn’t leaking at all in yesterday’s test. But clearly, my patch wasn’t very robust since it was leaking now!  Even worse than before.  The leak isn’t in the same place as last time, it’s on the opposite side of the staybolt.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204i-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3370.jpg)

So, I switch into patch mode and set it up on the hearth. Here’s where I started. Left the top open to give me a place to add some heat before I start focusing on the patch spot.  I use a low flame on the rest of the boiler to get it up to a few hundred degrees.  I’ve found that even at the end of a long solder session any part of the boiler that’s a bit away from the directly heated area isn’t much above 300-400 o, so I try not to go above that.  But I figure it helps cut down the dwell time on the flux in the area of interest.  I also put insulating material in two-thirds of the firebox to help protect things - you can see that in the picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204i-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3375.jpg)

I attacked it with the 50mm burner since that worked so well yesterday.  I hoped that would improve the heating compared to the last time I worked on this area.  Well, it didn’t help much.  I think that the area to patch is just too far down a skinny hole (at least, the way I had it set up there).  So, what I did was to remove the insulation material I had in most of the firebox.  I left a bit of rock wool up at the crown (and what was stuffed inside the tubes) but with the whole firebox opening available, I was able to get the staybolt up to temp and flash the solder fairly quickly.  Hopefully, I did a better job this time than last.

Then I covered over the boiler and have left it to cool for a couple of hours. Then it will be into the pickle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204i-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3378.jpg)

Guess I’ll start with the low-pressure test tomorrow and then move to a hydro test.  The low pressure is so much neater and faster to clean up.  And easier to find the leaks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 01, 2023, 10:49:11 PM
Round and round  we (well, you) go. One time I had one that wouldn't  take the solder, so eone here suggested cleanin the spot with a pick and/or a fine rotary bit, to clean off any dirt or flux residue that was burned on. I don't know if that would help  here, but another trick to keep in mid. You'll  get there!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 02, 2023, 01:22:33 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Hang in there Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 02, 2023, 05:13:51 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff,

I just pulled and cleaned the boiler and I'm feeling pretty good about that patch at the moment.  We'll see if my confidence holds when I actually test it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on April 02, 2023, 12:53:53 PM
(You're up early!  :)  )

I got the Sawzall (Dewalt) with the variable speed so I'm ready to cut the other seven tender wheels!

And...I'm up to Page 182 on your writing.  Interesting - and I'll be sure to print it out to follow.

-Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 02, 2023, 04:32:48 PM
(You're up early!  :)  )
Thanks, but that was actually bedtime for me!  I've been pulling the boiler out of the pickle just before I go up to brush my teeth and go to bed!

I got the Sawzall (Dewalt) with the variable speed so I'm ready to cut the other seven tender wheels!
Great!  That looks like a real beast!  Sounds like you're ready to go now.  Looking forward to your tender wheel update!  :ThumbsUp: :D


And...I'm up to Page 182 on your writing.  Interesting - and I'll be sure to print it out to follow.

-Jim
And you're up to real-time now - watching me as I painstakingly work through my boiler issues...  I'll be out of this soon, I'm sure! (he says with blind optimism  :embarassed:)

 Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on April 02, 2023, 05:18:26 PM

Sleep tight!!








Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 02, 2023, 10:17:20 PM
I started with the submerged low-pressure air test today.  Found six pinhole leaks.  All repeats…   :(

Three in the lower part of the tubes in the front tube sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3379.jpg)

Two on the same side of the steam dome base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3383.jpg)

And one on the top staybolt in the backhead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3386.jpg)

I’m trying what Chris said. I used a little rotary bit in my Dremel and some small files to clean each area this time.  I took off most of the solder around each leak and tried to get down to bare metal.  Couldn’t quite make it in some places, but it was definitely a lot cleaner than it was before!

I started with the backhead stay.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3389.jpg)

After completing the backhead stay:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-5-DSC_3392.jpg)

Then moved to the front tubes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-6-DSC_3395.jpg)

And finally, the steam dome base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-7-DSC_3398.jpg)

And then covered for cooling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204j-HydrostaticTesting-8-DSC_3402.jpg)

Well, I think I’m definitely the winner of the most boring build log on MEM right now.  I may stop posting for a bit till I’ve got something more exciting than ‘more patches’ to report.  Or just do every third round of patches or something like that.

Hope I haven’t been boring you all too silly here.  This is quite a process for me though, and I appreciate all your patience and advice along the way.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 02, 2023, 10:47:31 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Step by step Kim. You will get there!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 02, 2023, 10:52:00 PM
Its not boring, its realistic,  shows whats involved and all the different  techniques.  Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on April 03, 2023, 12:15:16 AM
 :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 03, 2023, 12:19:24 AM
I agree with Chris. Besides, we get to relax and learn while you go on doing all the hard work!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2023, 04:53:58 AM
Thanks, Jeff, Chris, Jim, and Ron,
I really do appreciate the moral support.  And all of the helpful advice I've been getting from everyone!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JCvdW on April 03, 2023, 07:39:06 AM
Hi Kim

Please keep on posting. I am learning with you as you go!

JC
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: bobh on April 03, 2023, 12:18:54 PM
Total ignorance here but would this be a time to preheat the boiler to some temp below the melting point of solder and heat the actual joint to melting with a smaller but hotter torch, possibly oxy acetylene? Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: repkid on April 03, 2023, 12:49:51 PM
I've been lurking here since Blondihacks started her engine series and linked the thread but I've finally decided to comment. Really enjoying the build log so far, the documentation is excellent and it's giving me a good idea of what goes into making one of these and on that note: I enjoy you showing all the many steps when it comes to plugging the leaks because if I ever decide to build one these myself I'll know what I'm getting into. So congrats on the fantastic build so far and I look forward to the rest!  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on April 03, 2023, 01:57:24 PM
 :cheers:

Blondihacks is a great site; I've got her YouTube site bookmarked for her every-other-week updates on her boiler.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2023, 06:14:50 PM
Thanks JC, Bob, Repkid, and Jim!

Appreciate knowing that you're finding it of interest.

Blondihacks is a great site. She explains things very clearly and succinctly.  Lots of things that have taken me years to pick up!

I'm also quite enjoying her Pennsy boiler build.  All I can say is she makes it look pretty easy! And, if you take it a step at a time, it's not too hard.  But I am finding it a good challenge.  But she has a couple of other large boilers under her belt which probably makes this one a bit easier for her. She's doing a great job of it for sure!  (As she does with everything she touches!)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 03, 2023, 07:00:21 PM
Keep up the great effort , Kim.  I look forward to your updates, I've learned so much from them.  Thanks for posting all that you do.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 03, 2023, 08:15:34 PM
As you say about my fuel injection stuff, keep posting I am learning a lot  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2023, 12:31:59 AM
Thank you, Todd, and Roger :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2023, 01:05:09 AM
Not a lot of progress today (but has there been a lot of progress any other day?  Not so sure…)

I was really optimistic this morning and started out with a full-on hydro test.  Everything looked great as I was filling the boiler – no water running all over the place. That’s good.  But as I started to pump water in, even before any pressure registered on the gauge, water started trickling from the front tube sheet.  One of the places I’d supposedly fixed yesterday :(

So, I dumped the water out and went back to the submerged low-pressure testing where I could easily pinpoint that leak.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204k-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3404.jpg)


I hoped that was all, but no, there was another one.  And this one was inside the firebox.  A different stay than the one that’s been causing me trouble. The one right next to it, wouldn’t you know? >:(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204k-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3408.jpg)

So, for these leaks, I’m going to do as I did yesterday, and clear away most of the old solder first. Then, for the actual silver soldering, I’m going to do as others have suggested – most recently, Bob – and do the early heating with the propane torch then switch over to the OA torch for the final heating to flash – hoping that will get the important parts really up to temp quickly without damaging other joints too much.  Or so my theory goes.

Here's the front tube sheet cleaned up with a little burr and some files. The one in the firebox was harder to get to, but hopefully, I got it too.  Unfortunately, it looks like I’m getting more cracks in the solder fillet around the tube on the right side too.  I’m wondering if this extra-easy solder isn’t as robust as the easy or medium solder is?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204k-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3411.jpg)

Unfortunately, at this point, things came to a screeching halt as I realized I still hadn’t picked up more acetylene.  So, that’s what I did today.  Went and exchanged the empty acetylene cylinder for a full one. 

Now I need to wait till tomorrow to use it because I can’t transport the cylinder upright.  It had to lay on its side during the drive home.  And as we all know, you can’t use the acetylene cylinder till it’s been upright for a day.

So, tomorrow will be the day I patch this round of holes.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 04, 2023, 01:14:43 AM
I had a similar weekend Kim......but keep at it, you'll plug those leaks!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on April 04, 2023, 02:02:01 AM
Two steps forward and one back. That's okay; it's still progress. You've got this!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 04, 2023, 02:23:53 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2023, 05:08:45 AM
Thanks for the moral support Dave, tzKelly, and Jeff!
Tomorrow will be progress day!  I can feel it :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2023, 09:56:19 PM
Today is yet another leak patch day.
So, I put some flux and solder on the firebox staybolt and started there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204l-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3413.jpg)

After taking this picture I realized I hadn’t stuffed rock wool in the tubes or along the crown of the firebox.  So I did that, then proceeded to torch it up with the Sievert.

After I got it warmed up and stacked more bricks around, I kept at it with the propane torch till my little infrared temperature gizmo gave me a reading of  ERR (which means it’s over 999F.  At that point, I switched to the Oxy-Acetylene torch (using a #1 welding tip) and just played the tip of the flame over the area.  I tried to make sure the staybolt itself was getting hot enough too, in addition to the firebox.

The problem with the OA torch is that the silver solder will melt in the direct flame. And that is what happened here too.  So I kept heating the area, moving the torch all the time, till I could see what little solder was left start to flash.  Then a ‘little’ more heat and I removed the flame and poked solder on the joint and the joint melted the solder. So that was good.  I did that another time, dipping the tip of the solder in the flux each time.  So hopefully, I got a decent solder joint there.  Guess we’ll see.  It looks OK, but that hasn’t meant anything in the past.  So we’ll just have to test to see if this method was any better.

Following this, I reoriented the boiler and, before refluxing the tube joints, I took a little Dremel wire wheel to the area and cleared away all the soot and oxidization that had formed there. My hope is that this will help the joints.  Then I added flux-dipped solder and did the same routine with the propane torch, then the OA torch.  Except for this time, when the OA torch melted the solder (and it all balled up without adhering to anything) I added another hunk of solder, switched back to the Sievert, and used that to complete this joint.  May have been the wrong call, but that’s what I did.

One thing that I did try to do differently was to focus on getting the tubes themselves hotter - making sure I played the flame from the top side (tube side) more so that the tube would get equally hot.  Hopefully, this will be a good thing too?

Then put it to bed for a bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204l-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3415.jpg)

Time will tell if anything comes out better this time. Or where the leaks will pop up next…

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 04, 2023, 10:28:43 PM
Should be good, here's hoping with you!  You are right about the tubes/bolts having to be hot enough to wick the solder down along their length of the joint. Normally you would heat from the back side to do that, and would also be able to flux the back side to keep it from oxidizing and help wick the solder in. Thats the toughest part of these final stages, the inability to get at the other side of the sheets. Someone needs to invent a boiler design that bolts together in the middle to give us access to the inside! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 05, 2023, 02:12:23 AM
believe it or not Chris, George Westinghouse did just that on his traction engine boilers. An image of the construction published a few yr ago on Smokstak.com is attached. However this would be harder to do on a locomotive for many reasons, including a terrible grinding noise as the wheel flanges rub on the bolt flanges!  :Lol:

Good luck on the next test Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 05, 2023, 04:54:12 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on April 05, 2023, 06:07:57 PM
Best wishes for a successful joint on those difficult bits, Kim.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 12:01:32 AM
Thank you Steve!  Yesterdays were successful! Yay!
But now I have more leaks to address. Seems a never-ending cycle, doesn't it?


Today began like every other day for the last couple of weeks. A low-pressure test, finding a few leaks, and then attempting to fix them.

On the plus side, the two fixes I did yesterday seemed to take: the front tube sheet and the middle staybolt on the firebox..

On the downside, I found two more leaks.  Both are in the firebox.  One was the staybolt NEXT to the one that I patched yesterday.  The other was a staybolt on the opposite side of the firebox.  So two in that nasty inside firebox area.

Here’s the first one, to the lower left staybolt in this picture.  Just in case you can’t keep track (and how could you?) that is right next to the one I patched yesterday but the opposite side of the one I've patched twice before.  So this one's a new leak (likely caused by my ham-fisted soldering technique).  You can see a couple of big solder balls on the right side of that middle stay.  Not too pretty. But at least that patch seemed to hold. At least for the test today.  The one on the left side is the culprit today (you can kinda see the Sharpie mark I made there).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204m-HydrostaticTesting-2-DSC_3423.jpg)

The second one is on the opposite side and in this picture is the upper right staybolt.   I haven’t had any problems with this side yet.  But once I start heating things up there, they are all likely to go… :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204m-HydrostaticTesting-1-DSC_3419.jpg)

I prepped the patch areas as I did yesterday (with the burr and filing).  But these are so hard to get to. I could only do so much.
I tackled the one where I’ve now had 3 stays in a row fail.  I used the propane torch to heat it up, then went in with the OA in that specific area.  I could not get feeding in solder to work today. I tried pressing a piece into the joint with some forceps but all it would do was bend like a wet noodle. So I kept tossing little bits of solder onto the joint.  In the end, I feel OK about this one, but what does that really mean? :/
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204m-HydrostaticTesting-3-DSC_3424.jpg)

Then I flipped the boiler over so I could access the one on the other side (this is the newly leaking side).  Same drill, same issues, but I got it done, I think.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/204m-HydrostaticTesting-4-DSC_3428.jpg)

Then I covered it over and let it cool for a few hours before setting it gently in the pickle vat.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 12:14:50 AM
Chapter 24.1 – Fire Door

Well, I’m getting faster at this patching drill, so yesterday and today I started to make some progress on the next element, the Fire Door! To quote Monty Python, “And there was much rejoicing!”

I know I’m not done with the boiler, but I’m quite ready to make progress on something else now.  Hopefully, I’ll keep nudging the boiler along and get there eventually.  But it’s time for me to do something else too. All boiler and no progress makes Kim a dull boy.  (Really mixing up his movie quotes, isn’t he?  :Lol:)

So, to start the fire door, I cut a small square of 1/16” sheet steel (4130 is what I’ve been using in this build) and did my best to find the center(ish) and draw a circle.  This is only a general guideline, just to show it’s possible.  And cut a 2.5” length of 1/8” x  1/4" 1018 bar to use for the hinges.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205a-FireDoor-1-DSC_3434.jpg)

To make the fire door round, I’m going to use CA glue to glue it to a mandrel so I can turn it to size.  So I found some aluminum to use as a mandrel, faced it off, and made some concentric rings in it, to help with the CA glue.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205a-FireDoor-2-DSC_3431.jpg)

I put CA on the end of the mandrel and used a center in the tailstock to help center up the part on the mandrel and let the glue set.  Then I took the pointy thing out of the center and used its flat nose to apply pressure on the part while I turned it.  This is a rotating center with replaceable ends.  It’s not an expensive one, but it has come in handy many times for me.  I’m glad I have this little set (got it from Little Machine Shop during one of their weekly sales many years back, I believe).  And here it is, turned to the specified 1.5” diameter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205a-FireDoor-3-DSC_3438.jpg)

Now, before I take it off the mandrel, I’m going to use this setup as a way to hold it while I drill all the required holes. Otherwise, it’s kind of an unwieldy part to hold!

So I brought it over to the mill and centered it up using the Coaxial indicator (always such fun!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205a-FireDoor-4-DSC_3444.jpg)

However, before I went to drill all the holes, I decided to investigate a weird squeak/tick noise I was hearing on my mill.  This isn’t the first time I’ve heard it, but it was quite pronounced today – especially while running at the low speed required for the coaxial indicator.

And what did I find?  But a nasty big break in my belt. At least, that’s what I think it is.   Makes me wonder how long it’s been like that.  I circled it in red.  The brown in the lower part of this pic is the outside of the head of the mill – we’re looking through a tiny gap in the head that is normally covered with a “Grizzly” logo plate.  On the left, is the pully on the motor spindle (coming down from above where the motor is mounted) and on the right is the spindle pulley.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205a-FireDoor-5-DSC_3442.jpg)

Initially, I wondered if that thing in the circle was where they joined the belt together – otherwise, how would they get it on there?  It has to go around the spindle which you can’t do without taking the head apart.  The spindle shaft goes through the spindle pully then up through a bearing in the top of the mill head.

Then I decided that you probably do have to take the head apart to replace the belt.  What a bummer.  :-\

So, I don't have a lot of experience with belts like this, but from the picture, it looked like “B28” was a good thing to search for.  And sure enough, it seems to define the belt I want.  I can buy one from Granger for $14 (plus lots of shipping) or get one in 2 days from Amazon for $8.50.  I’ll probably do the Amazon thing unless someone tells me otherwise.

How hard is it to take the top bearing off a mill spindle so I can get a belt on there? :(  Anybody done that before?

It still works, and I've probably been using it like this for a while, but it's going to break soon I'd bet...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: vtsteam on April 06, 2023, 12:31:00 AM
Kim, you might be able to use one of the link-type Vee belts without having to take the head apart.

https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/ (https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 06, 2023, 12:43:52 AM
Hi Kim
The belt shouldn't be too bad of a job, a better photo of the belt housing would be helpful. I have had mine apart many times over the years. Although it is a Bridgeport clone yours may be similar.
I keep pulling for you on the leaks and one of these days we will get to see a positive pressure test. I'm sure that your persistence will pay off.
Hey that fire box door looks a lot like the lid on the water tank of my Pacific engine. :)

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 06, 2023, 01:43:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Good idea to take a detour from the boiler and make a few other parts and assy's. You had me there in the photos showing the drawing of the fire door then turning a piece of aluminum....thought you were making the first self melting fire door until I read the mandrel caption!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 05:22:45 AM
Kim, you might be able to use one of the link-type Vee belts without having to take the head apart.

https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/ (https://www.fennerdrives.com/product-lines/hpc-v-belts/)
Hmm.... interesting thought.  How do you get one that will fit?  This one seems to be 17/32" wide at the fat part and somewhat less at the skinny part of the V.  And 31" long on the outside.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 05:29:53 AM
Hi Kim
The belt shouldn't be too bad of a job, a better photo of the belt housing would be helpful. I have had mine apart many times over the years. Although it is a Bridgeport clone yours may be similar.
I keep pulling for you on the leaks and one of these days we will get to see a positive pressure test. I'm sure that your persistence will pay off.
Hey that fire box door looks a lot like the lid on the water tank of my Pacific engine. :)

Dave

Yes!  The firebox door looks just like that! Or will eventually  ;D

It looks like the bearing that's in the top of the belt housing isn't a really critical one - not one that's preloaded for the spindle or something anyway.  It just helps keep the spindle drive shaft straight.  I looked in the manual and there's a stack of 5 or 6 fancy bearings down lower in the spindle housing - several of those had fancy names like "angular contact bearing" and such.  This one is just labeled 'ball bearing'.  Looks like I could remove the plate with the green arrow from the top fairly easily, and the ball bearing (with the red arrow) should come with it.  Then I could slide the belt down over the shaft & pulley.  Doesn't look TOO hard (famous last words).  At least I won't be getting into that complex bearing stack in the spindle head part!

Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 05:31:04 AM
Good idea to take a detour from the boiler and make a few other parts and assy's. You had me there in the photos showing the drawing of the fire door then turning a piece of aluminum....thought you were making the first self melting fire door until I read the mandrel caption!  :Lol:

That would be like me!  Make the fire door out of aluminum!   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: john mills on April 06, 2023, 07:18:40 AM
B28 is a standard belt wich should be easy to get
that sort of crack is often when the bully dia is small from the size of belt . Belts with sp in are more flexible and can last longer on small pullies
i have seen a fan drive with small bullies only last a few weeks when standard A section belt were fitted when the original belts were SPA

John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on April 06, 2023, 08:27:10 AM
Your picture shows a motor with adjustment slot so it should be quite easy to loosen the motor bolts and swivel it forwards. Then the belt slips over easily. However, my lathe has been running on just one main belt -  a B section - that has a similar split in it. It's been like that for twenty years but still hasn't given way, so I would not be in any rush to replace it.

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 06, 2023, 01:37:02 PM
This is the type of belt that John is referring to. https://www.mcmaster.com/6057K111/
On a mill like mine (belt change Bridgeport clone) The belt housing bolts on from underneath and can easily be lifted off. But like you say, you may be able to remove the upper bearing plate and snake the belt over the shaft.
I have use the link belts in the past and tried to use one on my mill, due to the fact of how they are assembled they are taller than a standard belt and in that application it rubbed on the housing and made a awful noise.
Not to mention they are expensive. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/v-belts/twist-lock-adjustable-length-v-belting-8/


Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 06, 2023, 02:06:04 PM
A lot of the off-brand belts such as "Square Rope", "Elephant Fan", and others are poorly made. Often quite stiff with somewhat uneven flex.

I got a new Grizzly gear-head lathe a few years ago that seemed to shake badly when I started it up. I finally figured out that the lathe was fine and the motor drive belts were junk. Switched to Gates belts and everything quieted down.

I have used Fenner belts for years on my mill. The outer dimensions for the 5L-size link belt is slightly larger than the B-size standard belt, but if there is room the linked belt works fine.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2023, 04:51:10 PM
Thanks, John, Steve (springcrocus), Dave, and Gene, for the replies on my mill belt issue.

I may just leave it be for a while, as Steve suggested.  I think it's been like that for some time.  It may be getting worse, I'm not sure.  I'll have to start paying more attention to it.  If I do decide to replace it I may look into the twist-lock kind of belt.  I saw a clone version on Amazon that got pretty good reviews for ~$40.  Of course, that's 4x just getting a Gates belt, but it may be worth for ease of installation.

Truly appreciate the advice!  Thank you all!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on April 06, 2023, 08:38:47 PM
Before you shell out the cash for an adjustable length belt you might want to check what its' minimum recommended radius is.  It's been years since I used one, but I remember them as less flexible than a standard belt.  Probably due to their construction which uses multiple overlapping links.  They were nice when the belt stretched though, just took a link or two out.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2023, 02:05:45 AM
Before you shell out the cash for an adjustable length belt you might want to check what its' minimum recommended radius is.  It's been years since I used one, but I remember them as less flexible than a standard belt.  Probably due to their construction which uses multiple overlapping links.  They were nice when the belt stretched though, just took a link or two out.
Thanks!  Definitely a good thing to check on!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2023, 02:13:55 AM
Well, I had some level of success fixing the firebox staybolt leaks the other day.  Both leaks seemed to hold in today’s test.  Unfortunately, I found 4 more areas that needed addressing.  I’m sure some of these are caused by my multitudinous soldering sessions.  But I’m still feeling that I’m making some progress.

The biggest leak was in a familiar place – the upper staybolt on the backhead.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-01-DSC_3449.jpg)

The next one I found was along the top of the blow down bushing.  This one is new, probably from all my fiddling in the firebox, but who really knows?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-02-DSC_3451.jpg)

Then another one in the steam dome steam.  This is in a different place from last time. Quite small too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-03-DSC_3454.jpg)

The final leaks I found today were around the bell stud.  This is the second time I’ve found leaks in this area.  On the plus side, these were the smallest of all and I didn’t even notice it for some time, it was so slow.  It would take a while for a bubble to form, then it would let go and another one would start forming.  Very slow like.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-04-DSC_3456.jpg)

Anyway, I did the prep work with the burr and files and got it ready for soldering.

I used the propane torch to get the boiler up to a nice cozy temp, then switched to the OA torch to pinpoint the heat on the focus area.  I think this is a good method as it keeps the length of the soldering operation much shorter and hopefully, focuses the intense heat on a smaller zone.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-05-DSC_3460.jpg)

Then let it cool for a few hours.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-06-DSC_3463.jpg)

While it was cooling, I picked up work on the firebox door.

I drilled a set of holes in the firebox door – six tapping size for 1-72, and four close through holes for 1-72.  I was very careful which holes got which size!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-07-DSC_3467.jpg)

Then I went over to the hearth and used a small burner to heat up the part to make the CA glue let go.  Which worked quite well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-08-DSC_3471.jpg)

Next, I tapped the six 1-72 holes in the door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-09-DSC_3474.jpg)

And started work on the hinges.  I was making one hinge on each side of that 1/8” x 1/4" 1018 bar that I’d cut the other day.  I started by taking a 1/16” cut out of each end which will eventually fit over the door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-10-DSC_3477.jpg)

Then I drilled 1-72 tapping holes in each end. These will be used to hold the hinge to the door while being soldered.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-11-DSC_3480.jpg)

Rotating the part 90o I drilled the holes for the hinge pin. One on each side.  I used the stop for all of these ops.  I would do one side, then flip the part around and do the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-12-DSC_3484.jpg)

And finally, I cut the two hinges apart then used the belt sander to round the ends and provide a long taper that blended in with the rounded end.  Here one hinge has been rounded and tapered and the other hasn’t.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-13-DSC_3487.jpg)

Here are all the parts that will make up the base door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-14-DSC_3492.jpg)

And assembled.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-15-DSC_3489.jpg)

Then flux it up and place a bit of solder along the top of each hinge.  And now for some simple silver soldering.  I was able to just heat along the bottom of those hinge joints and the solder flashed and wicked through like magic!  I can tell you that using the propane torch is so much less stressful than using the OA torch.  Really.  Makes silver soldering simple! (Oh, and having it not be the boiler helps a LOT!  :embarassed:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/205b-FireDoor-16-DSC_3496.jpg)

Well, that brings you all up to date now.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 08, 2023, 02:26:49 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Firedoor progress looks great Kim! Keep pluggin (literally) on the boiler.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2023, 02:34:36 AM
Gotta be nice to have something new [size=78%]to do and see the progress  on, great way to recharge. [/size] :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2023, 06:29:58 AM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!
Yes, it's nice to be making some headway on something.

I'll get there on the boiler eventually... but it's sure slow going...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2023, 10:53:21 PM
Chapter 24.2 –Door Shield

The next part of the fire door is the door shield.

This is a simple part – a disk, made from stainless steel.  I followed exactly the same process for the shield as I did for the door.  So I didn’t bother to take pictures  But here it is completed. The shield will be mounted behind the door with some spacers to leave an air gap. I also cleaned up the door and filed off the screw heads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-3-DSC_3520.jpg)

One thing I meant to mention regarding the door hinges.  I intended to make the 1/16” notch in the hinges a closer fit to the door.  My plan was to cut the notch up to the close edge where it would start to hit the door, then file out a little triangle piece to make a closer fit.  Unfortunately, I apparently took the wrong distance value for that notch and cut it to the longer side rather than the shorter one.   I decided I didn’t care that much.  The solder joint is plenty strong as it is and the missing little triangle part is hidden by the door regardless.  So I’m happy enough with this.  Not a big issue for me.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-2-DSC_3516.jpg)

Just a quick update on the boiler testing.  I checked it this morning and I’d fixed most of the leaks found yesterday.  However, the one around the steam dome moved to both sides of yesterday's patch, so I clearly didn’t fix that problem – only moved it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-5-DSC_3503.jpg)

And on the backhead, my staybolt fix caused a problem in the top of the door ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-4-DSC_3499.jpg)

I addressed these both using the OA torch.  Here’s the door ring after attempting a fix:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-6-DSC_3507.jpg)

And here’s after fixing the steam dome base leak.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-DoorShield-7-DSC_3510.jpg)

Let's see where we’re at tomorrow.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 08, 2023, 11:06:40 PM
Here's hoping the game of whack-a-leak ends soon!  Nice progress on the door.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 11, 2023, 12:26:02 AM
Chapter 24.3 – Spacers and Pin

The spacers for the door shield were made from some 5/32” stainless 303 rod.  Fairly simple; face-off, drill a 1-72 through hole in the center, and part off at 5/16”.  This shot is of the parting-off step:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-4-DSC_3532.jpg)

After cutting for of these, I flipped them each around in the collet, faced the other side to length, and cleaned up the edges.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-5-DSC_3535.jpg)

After that, I made the hinge pin out of 3/32” stainless rod.  Turned it down to 5/64” (0.0781”), and made little grooves on each end for e-clip retainers.  Here are all the spacer and pin parts:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-6-DSC_3538.jpg)

And I couldn’t resist assembling the fire door so far.
Back:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-7-DSC_3541.jpg)

Front:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-8-DSC_3546.jpg)

I still need to make the latch and file down the ends of the brass screws used to assemble the heat shield, but the door is pretty close to complete.


Of course,  I also did a low-pressure test on the boiler which revealed lots of little leaks. Some new ones, and some moved ones.

Four new ones:
1)  Along the back of the manifold bushing (at the top of the backhead)
2)  At the bottom of the water gauge busing
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-1-DSC_3522.jpg)

3 & 4) The left and right side front handrail studs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-3-DSC_3529.jpg)

The moved leaks were around the steam dome.  These were on the opposite side from the last fix, so I’m sure my ‘surgical’ soldering from last time just moved the leaks from one side to the other.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/206a-SpacersAndPin-2-DSC_3524.jpg)

I did the repairs with the OA torch.  While I was at it, I attempted to redo the entire solder fillet all around each of the leaking bushings, except for the steam dome – I just redid the half that was leaking since I’d redone the other half last time.

Now we’ll see how close that gets me.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 11, 2023, 12:58:33 AM
Firedoor looks great! It's just as baffled now as I am sometimes!  :Lol:

Boiler re-solders look great too.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 11, 2023, 03:55:46 AM
Hey Kim.  Just catching up after returning from a weekend in the Canyonlands of Utah.  The fire door is looking good.  Keep plugging away at the boiler!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 11, 2023, 05:02:01 AM
Thanks Todd and Jeff!

Yeah, my plan is to just keep patching holes and hopefully leave it better after each fix than before.  Clearly, it isn't always working that way, but I still think I'll get there eventually!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 12, 2023, 05:17:51 AM
Chapter 24.4 – Spring Latch

Today I made the spring latch for the firebox door.  This is the final piece of the door.

It was made from some 0.010” bronze shim stock.  I cut a small piece out using little tin snips and evened up the edges on the belt sander.  Then I curled one end around an appropriately sized drill bit:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-08-DSC_3573.jpg)

Next, I double-sticky-taped the little part to some scrap aluminum and drilled the mounting holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-09-DSC_3578.jpg)

Then mounted it on the firebox door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-10-DSC_3582.jpg)

And here's the update on today’s boiler test/leak fix progress:

One of the patches from yesterday got a little wild and I got solder down inside one of the handrail studs.  So today, I spent some time finding the hole, drilling it out, and re-tapping.  I was a little worried about this, but it seemed to work out OK. Luckily, this one doesn’t leak anymore!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-01-DSC_3548.jpg)

Unfortunately, the other one I supposedly patched yesterday still leaks.  In slightly different places, but there were a couple of pinholes there.  Clearly did a poor job at that one, so I’ll have another go today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-03-DSC_3554.jpg)

There was also still a sizable leak at the steam dome base.  So that will have to be re-re-done.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-02-DSC_3552.jpg)

And finally, a new leak.  The top blower busing developed a leak.  So that will get some attention today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-04-DSC_3557.jpg)

I started with the blower bushing:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-05-DSC_3561.jpg)

Then moved to the handrail stud. And finally, the steam dome base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-06-DSC_3564.jpg)

Then put it down for a cooling nap before it’s pickling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/207a-SpringLatch-07-DSC_3569.jpg)

One more round of patches done and another test coming tomorrow!

But at least the firebox door is waiting to be mounted when the boiler is ready! :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 12, 2023, 07:18:00 AM
Kim, the fire door turned out really well.
I wish you the best of luck on your next  pressure test.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on April 12, 2023, 01:32:56 PM
I agree!

 :cheers:

(It may not be evident, but I've been following the updates...and ordering more tools!)

I do like the "Post/Save/Preview" feature - it saves the "Modify", although that's a nice feature, too!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 12, 2023, 06:32:15 PM
Thanks, Michael and Jim!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 12, 2023, 11:34:22 PM
Chapter 25.1 – Smokebox

Today was mostly focused on the boiler.  But I’m going to start with something where I make progress instead! The Smokebox!  Today, I’m starting on the Smokebox!  ;D

Of course, the smokebox starts with a piece of copper that will be turned into a tube, just like the boiler, only a lot shorter.  So, I fished out my last significant piece of 0.080” copper sheet that I’d squired away for just this purpose and set about making the long edges straight, parallel, and the proper width.  The final smoke box will be 3 3/4" wide, but I left it a bit over that to have some extra for trimming later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208a-Smokebox-2-DSC_3587.jpg)

The blank I started with was 12” long, but the proper length required to form the tube for the smokebox is the same as for the boiler, which was 11.428” (since they are the same diameter).  So I  used the bandsaw to cut ~1/2” off and then cleaned up both ends so they were square and the required 11.428” length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208a-Smokebox-3-DSC_3590.jpg)

So, while not much progress, it is actual, verifiable progress!  Whereas, I spent the bulk of my time doing two, not one, but two, leak test/fix rounds today.

The first test found that I had indeed fixed the blower busing leak on the backhead. Yay.  But the other two – the steam dome and the handrail stud still leaked.  In different places, but they still had leaks :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208a-Smokebox-1-DSC_3584.jpg)

So, I did a round of re-re-re-soldering on those two.  After letting it cool down, put it in the pickle for about 30 min.  While it was cooling and pickling, I was doing the smokebox work described above. After I pulled it from the pickle, I checked for leaks again.

This time, the handrail stud seemed solid. Yay again.  But the leak in the steam dome base had moved to the opposite side.  Oh, fiddlesticks.

So I prepped that area and went at it one more time.

I’m certain my problem is that I’m not getting solder down into the actual joint.  I’m trying, but it’s just very hard to do from the outside.  Usually, I’d heat the back side of the joint which would pull the solder though.  As it is, I can only heat the outside, which tends to make the solder puddle up on the outside of the joint, rather than pull down into it.

But I’m going to get there.  I’ll just keep trying.  I think I’m getting closer… (he says, brimming with blind optimism).

Thanks for looking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 13, 2023, 02:59:25 AM
You're gettin' there!  Keep after it, we're all pulling for you.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 13, 2023, 04:55:49 AM
Thanks Todd!  I need all the help I can get!   :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
As 99.99% of all my soldering has been electronics (and still is) - I'm not sure this applies in any form, but ....

When I have too many problems with a joint - I remove all the old solder, flux etc.
This fixes the posibility that there is contamination present - but to be sure I clean with Isopropyl Alcohol and maybe some sanding of the area that need the solder.
Apply 'loose Flux' (extra, as it is normally inside the solder), to prevent problems while heating.
When hot enough, apply solder .... Now move the Iron around - as the molten solder always follows the heat source. In your case - the Oxy-Acetelyn Torch is just as good in doing so (but careful not to overheat as you know).

Sorry for giving a solution that can't be done in the same way on the boiler .... or put another way - I don't know any tool that can remove the silversolder as easy as electronic solder can be ....

So now for what most likely can be used from my experience - the whole Joint needs to have all the solder reflowed - if not, you will get stress cracks during cool down (in electronics) and these ALWAYS come back to haunt you later.
I know it isn't completely comparable, as you must never take more than 10 seconds to complete a (hand-) solder in eletronics - in order not to destroy the components ....

I hope this is useful in some way ...!  + I still keep everything crossed until you succed in your quest Kim
 :ThumbsUp:   :ThumbsUp:   :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 13, 2023, 05:56:13 PM
Thank you Per!
This is very good advice.  Believe it or not, I am trying to follow this advice and remove the solder down to the bare metal. The only way I know to do this is mechanically with a burr on the Dremel and files.

I'm getting better at it (I think) and I'm going to keep plugging away!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 13, 2023, 07:32:29 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

That's the way Kim! one step in front of the other.

One thought - you can use wet rags, wet sand, or wet clay as a heat-stop on areas you don't want re-heated, like your bell mount and handrail mount bushings. There used to be some commercial ceramic fibre putties available for this purpose too, at welding supply places, not cheap of course. Long ago these were asbestos based - Weld-Bestos was one brand that worked great on car body welding - but now they are rock wool type fibre. Useful for heat control, might be worth a try with wet rags, sand, clay to see if there's a benefit on your boiler at very low cost.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2023, 12:44:20 AM
Thank you for the suggestion, Jeff!  I may have to give that a try!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2023, 12:59:28 AM
First order of business was to check the boiler.  So I did my usual low-pressure test in the bath of water trick. :facepalm: Still had a leak in the steam dome base!  This is like my fourth or fifth time fixing the same area!  :wallbang:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-1-DSC_3593.jpg)

What could I do differently?

So, I tried to clean the joint area even MORE carefully than I have been.  I filed away all solder down to where I could see the joint between the steam dome base and the boiler – both the bronze and the copper.  Then I cleaned it a little more with a pointy thing, then with acetone.  I applied just a little bit of flux, VERY carefully with a stick, rather than with a brush (which is less accurate), then set it up on the hearth.

I started like normal, heating things up with the Sievert.  When things got warmed up (like 400-600F) I switched to the OA torch.  This time I tried to be MUCH more stingy with the heat.  I focused on the leak area only, and when I got that area hot enough I poked solder onto that joint and watched it melt around. (I’ve been getting better at poking the solder in while/after heating – I can make it happen with the OA torch much better!)  But the main different thing I did was to stop and withdraw the heat really soon.  I didn’t keep heating the joint to ‘make sure the solder wicked all the way through’ which is what I’ve been doing.  I stopped quickly when it melted into a nice fillet and withdrew the torch.  This made the whole operation with the OA torch just a minute – very quick.  Figured we’d see how THIS slight change in technique would work.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-2-DSC_3596.jpg)

After this, I waited for the boiler to cool down, which was much faster than other times because I applied less heat, then put it in the pickle.

While I was waiting for the boiler I worked on some planning for the smokebox parts.  I also filed a slight bevel on the short edges of the smokebox sheet so that when it’s curved into a tube those ends will fit together better.  I scored marks on the sheet so they’ll fall every 90o, just like I did on the boiler sheel. Then annealed the sheet for bending and some time in the pickle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-3-DSC_3600.jpg)

At this time, I switched back to the boiler, pulled it out of the pickle, and hooked it up for the submerged low-pressure test again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-4-DSC_3602.jpg)

 :cartwheel: WHA-HOO!  Not a leak or bubble to be seen!  I don’t know if my quick surgical soldering really made any difference or not, but whatever, I’ll take it!  Yipee!

But wait!  I’m not done.  I can’t celebrate yet because I still have to do the REAL hydro test.

So I dry the boiler off and set it up for the hydro test.  I start filling the boiler with water and at about 4 cups water starts spilling everywhere!  Oops!  I'd disconnected the air attachment but forgot to hook up the water pump, so I had an open water fill stud draining water out!   Duh!   :embarassed:

OK, with my mess cleaned up and the water pump attached, I finished filling the boiler with water.  And, moment of truth, I started pumping.

My pump doesn’t hold pressure very well, so I’ve put an additional cutoff valve inline between the boiler and the pump.  I was able to get the boiler pumped up to about 50 lbs with the valve shut:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-5-DSC_3605.jpg)

This is a good start, but I need to go up to 200 lbs for my test.  So a ways to go still.

With a lot of quick pumping and a fast shut-off, I was able to it up to almost 100 lbs, but not quite.  I could see it spike up at 120-130, but I can’t close the valve fast enough to catch that.

The bad news is that I seem to have a little leak somewhere in the steam tube.  That could be coming from a poor sealing job in the steam dome base, but I don’t know.   It is a very slow leak, just a drip every little bit.  I don’t have a clue how to fix this leak and I’m thinking that since it is in the steam path I’m inclined to ignore it. Unless it leaks a LOT more at higher pressure.  It seems that a little leak like this into cylinders shouldn’t be too bad… I hope…  Besides, I don’t think there’s a real way to fix it short of starting over.  And I’m certain that won’t be happening anytime soon.  :insane:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-6-DSC_3611.jpg)

Now, before I can get up to full pressure I’m going to have to fix my pump.  So I took it out of the system and tried re-fitting all the ball bearings with SiNitride ones since they seem to work better.  Hopefully, this will help. Tomorrow will tell…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208b-Smokebox-7-DSC_3613.jpg)

If this doesn’t let me get up to pressure then I’ll have to think of something else…

While I’m not done with the boiler test, I’m feeling pretty good about this in spite of the slow leak in the steam tube area.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 14, 2023, 01:21:39 AM
Dang, thats a big improvement!    :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on April 14, 2023, 01:51:24 AM
Good work, congrats on getting it to this stage - just a little more to go!
Could it could be leaking into the steam tube from your gasket and blanking plug? Maybe just need to tighten that blanking plate up?  I think its unlikely to be in the tube itself.

Mike


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 14, 2023, 02:42:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:

Great news Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 14, 2023, 04:25:35 AM
congrats kim,
I am happy for you that the boiler has now passed the test. You can still do the rest.

Michael 🍻
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2023, 05:17:25 AM
Thanks Chris, Mike, Jeff and Michael!  :cheers:

Could it could be leaking into the steam tube from your gasket and blanking plug? Maybe just need to tighten that blanking plate up?  I think its unlikely to be in the tube itself.
That's kind of what I'm thinking (hoping?).  I have tried tightening it down, but there's only so much I can do.  I have had trouble there all along with the low-pressure air test too.  Sometimes I would get little bubbles out of the steam pipe (very slowly, just like this) and sometimes I wouldn't see a thing there.  That's one of the things that leads me to believe that when I get a good seal there (using the Loctite gasket-free stuff) that I should be in better shape. But even if not, I'm probably going to just deal with it.  It's a very slow leak, and it's leaking out where I'll normally want some steam to come out anyway.  So in my thinking, it shouldn't really affect things too much.

Thanks for the support on this long (and not quite finished) journey!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 14, 2023, 11:08:16 AM
Great news Kim - progress feels good, doesn't it   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on April 14, 2023, 12:15:38 PM
Well done Kim.  I have been following all along and awaiting each test result with breath held.

Great to see such a promising result.

MJM460

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on April 14, 2023, 12:38:23 PM
Great progress  Kim, :) "keep kicking that Elephant" mate, '

Gary

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 14, 2023, 03:37:43 PM
The bad news is that I seem to have a little leak somewhere in the steam tube.  That could be coming from a poor sealing job in the steam dome base, but I don’t know.   It is a very slow leak, just a drip every little bit.

Unless you are really lucky the throttle will leak more than that.

Does not look like a problem.   :cartwheel:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2023, 05:33:54 PM
Thank you Per, MJM, Gary and Gene!  :cheers:

It does feel quite good to be seeing some progress there! Hopefully I can complete the boiler hydro test today and move on with it.

The bad news is that I seem to have a little leak somewhere in the steam tube.  That could be coming from a poor sealing job in the steam dome base, but I don’t know.   It is a very slow leak, just a drip every little bit.

Unless you are really lucky the throttle will leak more than that.

Does not look like a problem.   :cartwheel:

Gene
My thinking exactly!  But it's nice to hear people with actual experience say it!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2023, 12:08:28 AM
I’m happy to announce that Mr. Good E. Nuff from the quality control lab has finally signed off on the boiler hydro test!  Yay!

Following my pump rebuild of yesterday, where I replaced the old stainless ball bearings with Si Nitride ones, and improved the seals on all the pump joints, the pump system worked better.  Not great, mind you, but better.  It would still leak terribly back through the check valves and through the pump ram, but it worked well enough that I could pump up a little past what I wanted (a little being 20-30 psi) and then quickly close the shutoff valve I’d put in to isolate the system from the pump before I lost all the extra pressure.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-01-DSC_3618.jpg)

Just to prove that the boiler was 200lbs capable, here’s a close-up of the pressure gauge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-02-DSC_3616.jpg)

Now, that picture makes it look a little better than it is.  With that drip in the steam pipe (wherever it is from) the pressure would bleed off pretty quickly.  Like dropping from 210 to 175 in 4-5 minutes. Then I’d open the shutoff valve and pump more to get it up above 200 then quickly shut the valve again.  So for this pic, I just waited till the gauge read 200 psi, then snapped the shot  :embarassed:  So my pressure test was more of a sawtooth waveform than would be ideal, but I kept it up in that range for 20+ minutes.  (Kozo says 15 min, BTW).

I timed the drip from the steam pipe and it was from 12-15 seconds (the shorter time being at 200psi, the longer time being at the lower end of my test pressure range).

Besides that known drip from the steam pipe, I found that I did have a bit of a weep spot around the steam dome base, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-03-DSC_3620.jpg)

I tried giving it a bit of a whack with a pointy thing right around the leak.  I’ve heard that can help close off little weep spots like this.  It didn’t close it, but it might have helped.

I did, however, notice that it got better throughout the pressure test.  Initially, I could see it weeping at around 50 psi or so.  By the end of the hydro test, it seemed to only weep above 130-150.  When the pressure dropped lower, it didn’t seem to weep anymore.   :D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-04-DSC_3624.jpg)

So, based on the fact that was trending was better and that it didn’t happen below 100psi (the actual working pressure of the boiler) AND the fact that this loco will be a mantle piece, rather than one that works for a living, I decided to avoid the likely outcome of making things worse by attempting a fix and leave well enough alone.  This boiler might not pass inspection by the board of crotchety boiler inspectors, but luckily, they have no jurisdiction in this situation!  So, Mr. Good E. Nuff is signing off.

:cartwheel: Yay!  It’s been quite the ride, hasn’t it?

If you’ve been asleep since the beginning of the boiler build, you can wake up now, because I’ll be working on other things going forward!

And just for fun, after I cleaned up all my water toys and dried things off, I couldn’t resist putting the boiler where it belongs! It’s starting to look like a locomotive!  (Sorry about the wrench under there.  guess I didn't get all my toys put away, did I? :))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-05-DSC_3633.jpg)

OK, now, back to the smokebox.

After annealing yesterday, I used the slip rolls to round the copper sheet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-06-DSC_3625.jpg)

Even though I tried really hard to make sure the part was square with the rollers, and that the pressure was equal on both sides, AND I flipped it end for end between each roll, this is what I came out with.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-07-DSC_3628.jpg)


But after some judicious manipulating of the copper, I was able to get it to line up pretty close.  I also cut a couple of little pieces to act as joining straps.  You can see those along the bottom of this picture:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-08-DSC_3634~0.jpg)

I then did some marking up around the seam to help me place the joint straps in the right place.  Here you can see me holding one of them in place with a clamp.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-09-DSC_3637.jpg)

As we all know, creating the setup is 90% of the work, right? Well, now I’m 90% of the way to having the rivet holes drilled for that first joint strap!  I measured the scribe marks on either side of the tube to make sure the seam was centered on the top, then I nudged it back and forth to get the seam in line with the x-axis of the mill before clamping it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-10-DSC_3640.jpg)

And looking through the end of the smoke box, you can see that I put a little machinist jack there (with a bit of aluminum scrap packing on top) to support the joining strap while it is drilled.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208c-Smokebox-11-DSC_3642.jpg)

But the actual drilling will happen another day.

Thanks for looking in.

And thank you all for all the help and support you’ve given me during the long battle with the boiler!  :cartwheel:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 15, 2023, 12:29:30 AM
Wheee!    :whoohoo:   What a difference in the  last few days!   Congratulations!   (And handle the boiler carefully,  both hands!  Don't  want to damage anything  after all that work.


Seems pretty common for the weep type leaks to heal up with a few pressure cycles. The squirtgun types are the really  bad ones. I  had to do the same thing with my hand pump, putting a shutoff  valve after it. Once had to replace the  gauge since  it had an internal leak!


Terrific progress, and a great bit of learning. Great to see it on the frame too!  Question: how does the smokebox attach to the boiler?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 15, 2023, 01:17:38 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:

Well done Kim!

I'd certainly rather be Mr. Good E. Nuff than Mr. Bug R. Dupp........ :Lol:

BTW - what wrench under the locomotive?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 15, 2023, 01:21:35 AM
Congratulations Kim!
Yes it has been quite a ride but you have shown great patients and "stick to it ness".  It is great to see it holding pressure, nice work!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 15, 2023, 04:27:11 AM
Congratulations Kim! A long ride well ridden!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2023, 05:45:14 AM
Thank you Chris, Jeff, Dave, and Ron!  :cheers:

I'd certainly rather be Mr. Good E. Nuff than Mr. Bug R. Dupp........ :Lol:
Yeah, Mr. Bug R. Dupp visited frequently during the soldering of the boiler!  Nice that he took the day off!  :Lol:

BTW - what wrench under the locomotive?  :Lol:
   :shrug:   :naughty:

Congratulations Kim! A long ride well ridden!
Yeah, a little too long, but I'm glad I made it to the destination!

Yes it has been quite a ride but you have shown great patients and "stick to it ness".  It is great to see it holding pressure, nice work!
Thanks Dave!  Yes, it was pretty exciting to see it holding pressure so well.  I'm pretty pleased  ;D

And handle the boiler carefully,  both hands!  Don't  want to damage anything  after all that work.
No Joke!  I've still got my wire handle around the fire door to help give it a nice secure handhold!

Seems pretty common for the weep type leaks to heal up with a few pressure cycles. The squirtgun types are the really  bad ones. I  had to do the same thing with my hand pump, putting a shutoff valve after it. Once had to replace the  gauge since  it had an internal leak!
I've heard about that - probably from your builds!  So I was happy to see it panning out in my boiler too!

I can say this made my day!

how does the smokebox attach to the boiler?
There will be a couple of brackets that will get mounted to the inside of the smokebox and will screw into the two smokebox studs on the front of the boiler.   Once I get the smokebox tube made I'll start working on all the fittings for it.  Those brackets will be some of them.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement along the way.  I couldn't have done it without all of your help!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on April 15, 2023, 02:01:46 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: You have a boiler and almost a locomotive  :)  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on April 15, 2023, 03:10:45 PM
Like many readers of this thread I don't post often, but I always enjoy reading about your progress.  It's like a soap opera!  :)  Glad to see you made it through this major hurdle!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: repkid on April 15, 2023, 04:14:15 PM
Congratulations on this milestone! :whoohoo:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on April 15, 2023, 05:19:51 PM
 :whoohoo:

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2023, 05:46:13 PM
Thank you Roger, Krypto, Repkid, and Wilf for all the encouragement and support!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 15, 2023, 11:06:44 PM
I started by drilling tapping holes for 1-72 threads through the smokebox shell and the joining strap.  In the book, Kozo specifies using copper rivets to hold the joining straps for soldering, just like for the boiler.  But I find the screws much easier to work with than the rivets.  And since this is mainly smoke (and some steam, but that’s pointed straight up the smoke stack) I decided to use brass screws here instead.  If a few were OK in the boiler, they are definitely OK in the smokebox.  Besides, all the rest of the fittings use brass screws for holding, so why not the joint straps too?

After tapping the holes in the joint strap and opening up the holes in the smokebox shell to 1-72 through holes, I attached the first joint strap with screws and moved to do the same for the second one:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208d-Smokebox-1-DSC_3646.jpg)

Here’s what it all looks like dry assembled.  That middle area with no joining strap will be opened up to attach a plate that will fit over the steam Tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208d-Smokebox-2-DSC_3649.jpg)

I then disassembled everything, cleaned it with a mini wire wheel and acetone, then reassembled with flux on all the joints and screws, placing solder along the joints. (I’m using easy-grade solder here).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208d-Smokebox-3-DSC_3651.jpg)

And, applying the heat to the bottom of the smoke box tube (Sievert torch w/ 32mm burner) I quickly heated up the part and flashed the solder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208d-Smokebox-4-DSC_3657.jpg)

After cooling, it is now in the pickle.

Next, I’ll start working on the various fittings for the smokebox.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 16, 2023, 12:00:27 AM
Nice job Kim!   That's looks great...might big piece of copper there!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 16, 2023, 01:22:15 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 16, 2023, 03:00:03 AM
WOOHOO!!!  :whoohoo: :whoohoo: So awesome, Kim!!  Congrats! :cheers:

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 16, 2023, 05:30:28 AM
Thanks Dave, Jeff, and Todd!  :cheers:

I'm pretty pleased for sure!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: springcrocus on April 16, 2023, 10:58:15 AM
Hello Kim,

I'm late to the party (as usual  :( ) but well done on your pressure test. Chasing down leaks can be very demoralising and it's all too easy to give up and look for alternative solutions. I haven't commented over the last week or so because I was starting to doubt that you would succeed and didn't want to put a damper on your efforts.

I'm so glad you proved me wrong! Ten out of ten for perseverance.  :Lol:

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 16, 2023, 12:13:01 PM
Great to hear that you are satisfied with the result => Major Milestone reached => congratulations Kim  :ThumbsUp:   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 16, 2023, 04:39:18 PM
Thanks Steve and Per!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 16, 2023, 05:33:10 PM
Kim, it won't be long before the first smoke starts coming out of the chimney.
Nicely done.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 17, 2023, 11:27:38 PM
Thanks Michael!  :cheers:

If by "not long" you mean 1-2 more years, then I'm in complete agreement!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 17, 2023, 11:34:56 PM
Today’s task; square up the smoke box ends and trim it to length.

But first, I did the same thing I did with the boiler tube and rammed the wooden disk/form through the tube to round it up along it’s length.  I must have made this tube a smidge smaller than the boiler tube because it was a LOT harder to work it through.  Took a LOT of pounding! But I did it, and it really made a big difference to how even and regular it looks!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-1-DSC_3659.jpg)

Now, with the smokebox evened up, I put wooden disk in both ends of the smokebox (same ones I used for the boiler) and squared it up the ends on the lathe.  This was a careful balancing act of getting the length correct, but also, making sure that the joining straps were the appropriate distance from each end.  Of course, overall length was top priority.  If one of the straps sticks out too far I can always file some of it away later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-2-DSC_3662.jpg)

After deburring the ends, here is the smokebox tube just slid on the end of the boiler.  Looks pretty cool, eh? :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-3-DSC_3665.jpg)

Looking down inside the smokebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-4-DSC_3668.jpg)

The studs on the left and right side of the boiler front will be for attaching the smoke box.   That will be my next task, making the mounting brackets for the smokebox.

My last item for the day though, was to mount the firebox door.  Now that’s pretty cool!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-5-DSC_3671.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208e-Smokebox-6-DSC_3674.jpg)

And just because it’s so cool, I made a short video of the door opening and closing so you could all enjoy it with me!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a729vs7GvU

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 17, 2023, 11:39:02 PM
Smokebox and the door fit great!  Getting the spring handle to fit well is tricky, well done!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 18, 2023, 04:10:56 AM
Looking good, Kim!  Nice work on the firebox door and smoke box.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 18, 2023, 04:54:06 AM
Thanks Chris and Todd!  8)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 18, 2023, 11:22:21 AM
Satisfying Snap when you close the Door  :ThumbsUp:

Per   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 18, 2023, 01:28:29 PM
You did a good job on the fire door. Do you have the shovel for that too?

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dalboy on April 18, 2023, 03:45:33 PM
The boiler is looking good. Plenty of work in this loco
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 18, 2023, 04:00:24 PM
Very nice action on that fire door. Bet you have a strong urge to toss coal through it!  :Lol:  Smokebox looks great too.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 18, 2023, 05:57:40 PM
Per, Michael, Derek, Jeff, thank you very much!  :cheers:

Yes, the door is quite satisfying!

No shovel yet.  But maybe later?  :thinking:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 19, 2023, 12:22:57 AM
When you are thinking of doing a shovel Kim, let me know. I've got an easy to make press tool design for them, to form 2 of them to a nice shovel shape in one op, in an arbour press or a big vise.

Or you can just modify a big soup spoon. Yard sale silver plated ones are easy to mod- fold up the spoon bowl's sides, trim the tops of the sides off, check fit in fire hole, adjust, start flailing the black diamonds. Crude but effective.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 19, 2023, 04:47:18 AM
When you are thinking of doing a shovel Kim, let me know. I've got an easy to make press tool design for them, to form 2 of them to a nice shovel shape in one op, in an arbour press or a big vise.
That sounds pretty interesting, Jeff!  :thinking:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 19, 2023, 01:41:44 PM
Forgot to mention another shovel style. You can make a sturdy and simple one from a piece of tube a little smaller than your firebox opening. The tube is cut in half and an end cap with a handle silver soldered or riveted or screwed on. This style shovel has a big advantage over shallow pan style ones, in that it holds more coal. More coal per scoop means the fire door is open for less time per firing session, which is good for the fire and for the boiler. If the door's open too long, the cold air entering the box causes thermal stress on the tubes and tube sheet.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 19, 2023, 05:47:47 PM
I like the simplicity of that one.  Lots of good ideas here!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 20, 2023, 12:45:00 AM
Today I completed the brackets that will hold the smokebox onto the boiler.

I made these from a length of 3/8” x 1/2" 1018 bar (cold rolled steel).  I cut a piece long enough for both brackets and will form one on each end.  Keeping the working piece longer should help me hold it in the vise more securely.

After evening off the ends, I cut a notch in one end to make the basic bracket shape. I carefully set a depth stop so that I could turn the part around and do the other side too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-01-DSC_3688.jpg)

However, I’m not as smart as I think I am.  With that notch cut, the portion of the part that would have rested against the stop was now gone…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-02-DSC_3691.jpg)

So, I decided to flip the part over and make the other bracket on the opposite side.  So it worked out OK in this case.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-03-DSC_3694.jpg)

With both brackets notched, I drilled two holes in each side for 1-72 threads.  These will be for holding the part on the smoke box while soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-04-DSC_3696.jpg)

And then tapped them (1-72, of course.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-05-DSC_3699.jpg)

At this point, I separated the two brackets by cutting the bar in half.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-06-DSC_3703.jpg)

Then trimmed the ends to length.  The one in the vise has been trimmed. The one on the left, out of the vise, will be trimmed next!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-07-DSC_3705.jpg)

Next, I drilled a hole in the end of the bracket. The 1-72 screw holes will connect to the side of the smokebox.  This hole is a through hole for a #8 screw to connect to the smokebox studs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-08-DSC_3708.jpg)

Since one side of this bracket will be up against the curved inside of the smokebox, I decided to curve that surface to make it match.  This is probably not necessary since the part is fairly narrow and Kozo doesn't say a thing about it. But I wanted to do it regardless.  And I did it using the rotary table.  I centered the RT up on the mill, then made a little jig where I could clamp the brackets at the correct position, then cut a radius on the side of the bracket.  The actual dimensions for the bracket are given from the center of the smokebox to the center of the bracket hole, so this method actually worked out very well.

I took very light cuts since the bracket is really only being held by one #8 screw.  The piece of steel clamped behind the bracket is to help prevent it from twisting. With light cuts, this worked just fine.   There wasn’t a lot of metal to remove anyway.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-09-DSC_3711.jpg)

Here’s how it will fit onto the side of the smokebox (eventually.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-10-DSC_3714.jpg)

For the final operation on these brackets, I rounded off the end (3/16” radius) using the belt sander.  This is my favorite way to round things these days!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-11-DSC_3717.jpg)

And here are the two completed brackets ready to be soldered in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208f-Smokebox-12-DSC_3720.jpg)

But I won’t be attaching them till I've made the rest of the smokebox fixings.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 20, 2023, 01:48:40 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: bobh on April 20, 2023, 02:37:18 PM
Nice trick with that jig plate and pivot stud on the belt sander. So simple but so effective. Bob
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 20, 2023, 06:21:49 PM
Thank you, Bob!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 20, 2023, 10:49:14 PM
The next fittings to make are for holding the door.  These are very simple, yet took me my whole shop time. Go figure.

I started by parting two 5/16” pieces off of a 1/4" 360 brass rod on the lathe.  Then I went to the mill, held one of them in the vise, and shaved off 1/32” of one side.  This flat side will be soldered to the inside of the front of the smoke box.  The part in the tray in the front is awaiting its turn at the mill (ominous foreshadowing…)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208g-Smokebox-1-DSC_3723.jpg)

So, as I turn around to do something, I bumped the tray holding the second part.  There’s no mass to the part, or the tray for that matter, so they go flying.  I found the tray, but the part was snatched by the shop gnomes.  I had to make another one.  Not hard, just frustrated at my well-honed ability to bumble about.

With a new part in waiting now (and set safely aside) I drilled a hole in the center of that flat and tapped it 1-72. This will be for holding onto the smokebox while soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208g-Smokebox-2-DSC_3725.jpg)

After successfully repeating these two ops on the new second part, these were complete.  I'll still need to drill the hole in the ends to actually hold the smokebox door screws. But I plan to add those after I get the door done and will transfer the hole positions from that.   Thought that made sense :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208g-Smokebox-3-DSC_3732.jpg)

Well, that isn’t all I got done today.  I actually repaired my air gun.  Yesterday, the long skinny nozzle fell off of my HIGH quality (read the cheapest one Amazon could provide) 6 year old air gun.  I was spraying some chips and “pft” off came the barrel and it went flying.  I recovered it and used the pistol grip the rest of the day with no barrel.  It’s not very effective that way I found.  But I thought I’d try soldering the barrel back on.  So that’s what I did, and it seems to have worked!  Much better now!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208g-Smokebox-4-DSC_3728.jpg)

So that was my shop time.  All in all, pretty productive, really!
Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 20, 2023, 10:53:31 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on April 21, 2023, 09:59:33 AM
Hey Kim,
 Boy you are racing ahead! Looking really good!

Just read the bit about a shovel….. for what it’s worth make the handle end of shovel rounded….. it makes it much much easier to get the shovel out of the fire box door, square corners get hung up….. espeacilly if you fire on the run and with a relatively small opening.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 21, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
Very good point Kerrin!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 21, 2023, 04:00:50 PM
For scale implements, there would also be a long two or three tined rake for reaching into the box and evening out/moving the coals. Usually would have an oval hoop end on the handle.
Plus the engineers lunchbox, oil cans, wrenches... Where to stop?!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 21, 2023, 05:00:42 PM
Plus a small foil package simulating breakfast being heated up on the backhead. :ROFL:

The smokebox is coming along great, Kim.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2023, 06:24:43 PM
Thanks, Jeff, Kerrin, Chris, and Todd!  :cheers:

Lots of little extras that could be made.  I'm thinking I'll continue to focus on the loco for now and see if I can get that done!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 21, 2023, 11:43:59 PM
Today I made the smokebox fitting that will connect it to the steam-tee.  Not sure what to call it so I called it the steam-tee fitting.

I cut a short length of 1/4" x 1” 360 brass bar and squared it up, thinned it to 5/32” thick, and trimmed it to size (which was 11/16” x 1 1/32”).

To create this simple piece, I was going to use a trick for thin parts that I saw on Blondihacks (and Clickspring too) where you superglue the thin, difficult-to-hold part, to a bigger base that is easier to hold, then mill your features.

So I created an appropriately flat base, with some grooves that everyone seems to use with the superglue trick, and was all ready.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-1-DSC_3735.jpg)

Except I forgot that part of the coolness of this trick is that you can mill the outside dimensions of all four sides at the same time, guaranteeing squareness.  And since I’d trimmed to size already, I had to make sure I glued it on square with the mill axes. So this was what I tried – using a little square to maintain orientation while I glued it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-2-DSC_3741.jpg)

It worked pretty well.  Came out a little over a thou off along the long side.  But I decided that was good enough.  The important features of the part will all be aligned to this setup.  The outside edges that will be off by a bit will be the outside of the flange that is held up against the smokebox.  And in reality, I’ll have more than a thou play in the hole I mount it in. So this is close enough.  But it should have been easier if I’d executed my plan correctly!  :facepalm2:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-3-DSC_3745.jpg)

OK, with the part held thusly, I proceeded to mill the flanges on the side of the steam-tee fixture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-4-DSC_3748.jpg)

Then center drilled, drilled, and reamed 5/16” holes for the steam pipe and the exhaust from the steam-tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-5-DSC_3751.jpg)

Next, over to the hearth to heat up the CA and release the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-6-DSC_3754.jpg)

And here’s the completed steam-tee fitting.  You can see in the drawing that it will be soldered into the bottom of the smokebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-7-DSC_3763.jpg)

And here’s where it will eventually rest – connecting the smokebox/boiler assembly to the steam-tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-8-DSC_3760.jpg)

Here it is, slid into place on the steam-tee.  All it’s missing is the smokebox!  Oh yeah, and the exhaust nozzle :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208h-Smokebox-9-DSC_3757.jpg)

The remaining fixture for the smokebox is the smokestack bushing.  After I make that, I’ll make the holes in the smokebox and solder them all in place!  Sounds so easy, doesn’t it?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 21, 2023, 11:55:34 PM
I wonder if the little grooves they mill in the jig plate is to give the glue access to air all the way through across the part, so it will set up everywhere and not just at the edges of the part?  Have never seen that trick before.  When you heat it up to release the part, do you have to beware of fumes? And how do you clean the glue residue off, or does it just burn off clean?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 22, 2023, 05:08:55 AM
I wonder if the little grooves they mill in the jig plate is to give the glue access to air all the way through across the part, so it will set up everywhere and not just at the edges of the part? 

Yeah, that could make sense.  I was kinda thinking it was to give the excess glue somewhere to go and give it someplace to grip a little.  But I'm sure it doesn't fill the grooves, but it sure gives it more edges to hold onto.  But the air access for setting - that makes sense.

Have never seen that trick before.  When you heat it up to release the part, do you have to beware of fumes? And how do you clean the glue residue off, or does it just burn off clean?
Yeah, I'd be careful of the fumes for sure - do with plenty of ventilation, etc...

I didn't see a lot of residue on it after the heating, but I believe a little acetone will clean the CA off the part.  Or even a little light buffing.  But the residue doesn't seem to be a big problem.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on April 22, 2023, 05:28:42 AM
I wonder if the little grooves they mill in the jig plate is to give the glue access to air all the way through across the part, so it will set up everywhere and not just at the edges of the part?  Have never seen that trick before.  When you heat it up to release the part, do you have to beware of fumes? And how do you clean the glue residue off, or does it just burn off clean?

I've found out the hard way that the little grooves aid in the strength of the temporary CA joint.  With flat mating surfaces, one failed joint still had wet CA in the middle.  Probably some kicker would help with this, but then you have very little time to set the part.  Green Loctite works well, but usually a little too well and heat is the only way to release the bond.

Acetone will eventually dissolve the bond if you don't want to heat the part.  As Kim stated, Clickspring uses this technique frequently along with another type of glue, I think shellac.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Zephyrin on April 22, 2023, 07:33:50 AM
shellac mandrels are described in several video by Tony Bird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vP4MYrToA
it looks great but requires good practice for success, at least in my hands...
I think that the grooves in the holder come from this popular technics in horology.

I would say that the grooves simply help to keep the part truly flat on the holder and making easier the ungluing as air is not required for the setting of the cyano glue (anaerobic).

lot of precise work in all these little parts, beautiful !
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 22, 2023, 02:51:22 PM
Ah, you are right, the superglue is anaerobic, but it does like a little moisture to kick it off, so the air down the grooves would give a way for some moisture in the air to get in there. For just flat surface, would wiping the side without the glue spread on it with a damp cloth first help out? I've noticed how the glue doesn't set as well in dry winter weather as it does in humid summer.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 22, 2023, 03:30:20 PM
Sometimes when it's dry weather and I need to CA glue something, I take the glued item and put it on the bathroom vanity after someone's had a shower. Often kicks the CA off very quickly.

I know you are aware of this one Chris, but just mentioning it for other readers who may not have thought of it - An old fashioned alternate to CA workholding brass or bronze parts is to sweat solder them to a brass sub-plate that is held in the vise. Tin both parts and heat the tinned parts together to bond them with almost no distance between them.  After machining the parts are heated to separate them, and any excess solder wiped off. Tin lead solder works fine for this trick, unless the part has to be silver soldered at a later stage.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 22, 2023, 05:02:13 PM
Lots of great info on the CA and shellac holding methods!  Thanks everyone!

I found the CA to work quite well in the few instances I've tried it.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on April 22, 2023, 05:10:13 PM
If normal CA (hobby grade like Pacer Zap-a-Gap) is anaerobic, then how does it avoid curing in a tightly sealed bottle?

From Loctite's FAQ:

If LOCTITE threadlockers cure in the absence of air, why don’t they cure inside the bottle?

The anaerobic bottles are specially formulated. Air-permeable polyethylene bottles allow air to pass through the wall. There is also some air gap over the product inside the bottle to maintain stability of the product. Thus a 50 ml pack of LOCTITE contains 50 ml adhesive in a much larger bottle.

That's why a new bottle of threadlocker is only about 1/2 full.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 23, 2023, 12:39:20 AM
Today I made the smokestack bushing. This piece will be silver soldered to the inside of the smokebox and will reinforce the hole that the smokestack will be mounted in.  It also provides a nice flat place for the smokestack collar to seat against (the smokestack collar is what will secure the smokestack in place).

The smokestack bushing was made from 1 1/4" 303 stainless steel rod.  I chose to use stainless steel for this because it was about half the cost of brass, even 4+ years ago when I did my material purchase.  I’m not sure brass has gotten any cheaper since!  The SS should work quite well.

After facing off the end, I drilled a shallow 1/2" hole, then bored that shallow hole out to 0.880”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-1-DSC_3765.jpg)

I was unduly pleased with this operation.  Boring has always been a struggle for me to hit my target.  But this time I did it.  I took it carefully, making 2 spring passes every time before checking the size of the bore.  And I got very close!  I was within a couple of tenths of my target :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-2-DSC_3767.jpg)

With that success, I parted off a small ring. The part needs to be 3/16” at its widest.  I chose to make the ring a few thou over this.  The extra width will get nibbled away in a future step.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-3-DSC_3772.jpg)

Next, I located the center on the mill using the co-axial indicator then drilled and tapped 1-72 holes. These are, again, for holding the part in place during soldering.  They will also be used to hold the part on the jig that I made in the next step.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-4-DSC_3774.jpg)

I took some time to design and build this cute little jig to hold the part vertically on the rotary table.  It worked well enough, though if I were to do it again I’d use steel for the angle bracket, or at least thicker aluminum. This 1/8” angle wasn’t really stiff enough.  I had to take really small cuts and I still got some chatter.  But it worked.  Using the jig I was able to round of one edge of the part to the inside radius of the smokebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-5-DSC_3777.jpg)

And here’s the final part (after some deburring).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-6-DSC_3780.jpg)

And what it will look like in the smokebox (though there will be a similar hole in the smokebox so the smokestack can go through :) ).  The smokebox is upside down in this picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208i-Smokebox-7-DSC_3784.jpg)

Next, I’ll be poking a bunch of holes in the smokebox!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 23, 2023, 12:52:02 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 23, 2023, 01:19:14 AM
Great result!




  You remarked on costs, recently I was  comparing  prices to see which to get, and saw that the prices on the 303 stainless  and brass were about the same, at least at the sizes I was looking at.  Quite different than  a couple of  years ago.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 23, 2023, 03:05:29 PM
Nice work, Kim. I always find it somewhat refreshing to work with a different material for a bit after spending a lot of time on something else, like the all the copper and brass work you've been doing lately.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 23, 2023, 04:51:08 PM
Nice work, Kim. I always find it somewhat refreshing to work with a different material for a bit after spending a lot of time on something else, like the all the copper and brass work you've been doing lately.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Yeah, the 303 stainless was actually quite fun to work with.  It machines quite well.

You remarked on costs, recently I was comparing prices to see which to get, and saw that the prices on the 303 stainless and brass were about the same, at least at the sizes I was looking at.  Quite different than a couple of years ago.
Yeah, I just checked.  They're getting closer in price, but the stainless still seems to be cheaper than the brass (maybe only 20-25% less?). But they are both about 2x what they were 4 years ago!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 23, 2023, 11:56:12 PM
I spent a chunk of time figuring out the exact positions of all the holes and openings in the smokebox and how I’d create them.

Then I marked up the smokebox as a check on my DRO work (and my math).  Here’s a shot of the top of the smokebox, all marked up:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208j-Smokebox-1-DSC_3792.jpg)

And here’s the bottom side showing where the rectangle hole for the steam-tee fitting should go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208j-Smokebox-2-DSC_3790.jpg)

Now to set this up on the mill, I used the height marking gauge to get the same height on the front and back of the quarter markings on the smoke box.  And I used the pointer to align the Y-axis as best I could.  These were all just ‘by eye’ settings, but hopefully, it will be close enough.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208j-Smokebox-3-DSC_3795.jpg)

With all that set, I started on the bottom opening, which is the one for the steam-tee fitting.  I used a 1/8” end mill to go through all four corners of this opening.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208j-Smokebox-4-DSC_3797.jpg)

Then I connected the dots.  I got a little wild on my finishing pass in the lower left corner, but I think that will be fine.  I’ll be opening up these corners a bit with a square file so the steam-tee gizmo will fit.  And the silver  solder should cover up my boo-boo there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208j-Smokebox-5-DSC_3801.jpg)

Not fast work, but forward progress never the less.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 24, 2023, 12:09:29 AM
Nice layout work!  I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 24, 2023, 12:13:48 AM
Nice layout work!  I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago.  I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time.  And I should probably use it more often than I do!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Blondihacks on April 25, 2023, 06:37:48 PM
Just catching up on this thread....

Kim, you did great on the boiler! Well done! The leak-fixing stage is always the most stressful and demoralizing. There's always the risk of an unrecoverable downward spiral of creating two problems for every one you fix. This happened to me on my second boiler, and the project ended on the bandsaw.  You dodged that and did just fine.

It's always a relief to have a boiler pass a pressure test  :D
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 25, 2023, 07:03:16 PM
Thanks Quinn!  :cheers:
Appreciate the encouraging words.

Really enjoying watching your boiler coming along.  It's quite the little project for sure and you're doing an excellent job!

And I'm glad to see you made it past the overly zealous forum security finally!   :facepalm:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 25, 2023, 07:27:48 PM
Looks great Kim!   Keep plugging away, you'll get there

Thanks for joining us Quinn, I'm a big fan!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on April 25, 2023, 09:39:25 PM
Welcome Quinn! I think you'll find you've got a remarkable number of fans here.... including this Admin :)

And Kim - I've been hooked on this thread ever since Quinn mentioned it on her channel (as you know, I don't get much time to read OR post around here - and currently 95% of my shop is mothballed) - you've done brilliant work. I really felt for you during that boiler leak saga.

So.... an internet race to the finish line?  ;D  Good luck both of you, and I for one will be following both builds.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 01:23:16 AM
Thanks Dave and Ade!  :cheers:

It does feel good to have the boiler done!  :pinkelephant:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 01:29:23 AM
There are a WHOLE LOT more holes to poke in the smoke box, so on we go with that.

After the big rectangle hole for the steam-tee fixture, I used the DRO and a little spotting drill to mark the holes where the smokebox saddle will connect.  The locations for these holes are given as distances from the center line, NOT as radial distances or angles. That’s why it made sense (to me anyway) to mark them in this position.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-1-DSC_3803.jpg)

But to drill them, I loosened the hold-down clamps and carefully rotated the smokebox so that those marks were on the centerline before drilling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-2-DSC_3807.jpg)

After doing one side, I did the same to the other.  I debated on poking these holes now, or waiting till I’d formed the smokebox saddle and drilling the holes from that part.  But I’ll be using the DRO for those too, so I’m optimistic that they’ll line up adequately.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-3-DSC_3809.jpg)

Next, I rotated the smokebox to one side and drilled the holes required for mounting the smokebox bracket and the door bracket.  I did the same to the opposite side too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-4-DSC_3812.jpg)

Remember, that for each of these rotations, I had to recenter the part rotationally, and find the edge in the x-direction.  I’m sure there’s something I could have done to make this easier, but this is what I did.

Now for the more tricky part.  The smokestack hole!
For this, after going through the setup regimen, I drilled a pilot hole, then used a step drill to open it up to about 3/4".  One of my very few uses of a step drill and it worked great!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-5-DSC_3815.jpg)

Then used a boring head to open it out to 0.880”.  I decided to attach the top parts of those holders for the boring operation.  I wanted things held as securely as possible for this.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-6-DSC_3819.jpg)

While still in that setup, I drilled the holes for the smokestack bushing screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-7-DSC_3822.jpg)

We’re on the home stretch now!  I followed the same procedure for the headlight bracket as I did for the smokebox saddle mounting screws.  But I was smarter this time! I figured out a way to hold the cradle in place so that my y-axis setting wasn’t messed up. This kept things centered and aligned with the x-axis as I rotated the smokebox around.  Still had to re-zero my x-axis after every turn, but it wasn’t TOO bad :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-8-DSC_3829.jpg)

And finally, I drilled a hole on each side for the handrail.  To get this radial position for these I held the smokebox in position in front of the boiler and extended a line out from the existing handrail studs. Hopefully, this will ensure that they align fairly well when I go to actually install the handrails!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208k-Smokebox-9-DSC_3832.jpg)

There’s still some cleanup work to do on the smokebox before I can solder things in place.  But I’m getting close!  This is a complex part.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 26, 2023, 02:01:12 AM
Coming along Super-Duper, Kim! Those step drills are the bomb for thin stock, and I bet even more so for thin copper!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 26, 2023, 02:14:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2023, 02:19:37 AM
Lotsa work for that little bit of.tube!    :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 05:22:39 AM
Thanks Ron, Jeff, and Chris!

Those step drills are the bomb for thin stock, and I bet even more so for thin copper!
Yeah, it worked quite well!  Probably work better if I got a better quality one.  This one was part of a 3-pack from Harbor Freight.  But it still worked.  I may have to invest in a slightly better one someday!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Blondihacks on April 26, 2023, 06:37:37 AM
So.... an internet race to the finish line?  ;D
;D

Haha, I’m sure Kim will finish first. I’m all the way back at the start now, having run the middle leg first.  :D

I have the advantage of seeing how Kim has done things too, which will make my build go smoother. This is by far the most detailed A3 build log I’ve seen, and it’s really helpful to see how someone else thinks through setups.

As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such. Build logs like this give a much better map of the road ahead.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 26, 2023, 01:55:10 PM

As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such. Build logs like this give a much better map of the road ahead.

There have been a few hints over the years that the plans and work shown in Live Steam Magazine and the books were not always the first attempts. Only the final versions made it into print.  :Jester:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2023, 02:24:41 PM

As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such. Build logs like this give a much better map of the road ahead.

There have been a few hints over the years that the plans and work shown in Live Steam Magazine and the books were not always the first attempts. Only the final versions made it into print.  :Jester:

Gene
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 05:25:07 PM
So.... an internet race to the finish line?  ;D
;D

Haha, I’m sure Kim will finish first. I’m all the way back at the start now, having run the middle leg first.  :D
Well, I'm sure I've got a couple of years to go yet on the build. But I'm still making progress, which is about the best I can hope for!  :embarassed:

Besides a 4+ year head start, another unfair advantage I have is that I believe Quinn still works full time.  I have the luxury of having retired a year ago. Hmmm... almost 2 years now!   How time flies when you're having fun!  ;D

I have the advantage of seeing how Kim has done things too, which will make my build go smoother.
Yes, one big advantage!  You know at least ONE way not to do things now!  :LittleDevil:

As good as the book is, it’s also misleading in terms of how much work some things are. Sometimes a single sentence in that book is a week of work. “Just make this fixture and then these twelve parts” and such.
No joke!  I find that frequently!  He'll dedicate a section to making the hinge pin for the fire door, then the next section of about the same length says to make the smokebox and solder all the fixtures on!  (OK, he goes into a little more detail than that, but not much!)


So, Quinn, are you planning on using the castings for the drivers and cylinders? Or are you going to make your own?  I found them both to be quite fun projects, each in their own right.  But I can see the drivers being much easier with the castings for sure.  Or at least having a different set of issues.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Blondihacks on April 26, 2023, 07:55:05 PM
So, Quinn, are you planning on using the castings for the drivers and cylinders? Or are you going to make your own?  I found them both to be quite fun projects, each in their own right.  But I can see the drivers being much easier with the castings for sure.  Or at least having a different set of issues.

I was planning to buy castings for the drivers, but do everything else from bar stock. However, turns out there are a lot of viewers out there who have started the A3 but had to abandon it for various reasons, so I actually had some viewers send me parts. I have a fully machined set of drivers, and I think someone is sending me tender wheels as well. Even though it would be fun to machine them myself, I don’t mind a little help along the way and it’s nice that other peoples’ work won’t go to waste!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 10:27:20 PM
So, Quinn, are you planning on using the castings for the drivers and cylinders? Or are you going to make your own?  I found them both to be quite fun projects, each in their own right.  But I can see the drivers being much easier with the castings for sure.  Or at least having a different set of issues.

I was planning to buy castings for the drivers, but do everything else from bar stock. However, turns out there are a lot of viewers out there who have started the A3 but had to abandon it for various reasons, so I actually had some viewers send me parts. I have a fully machined set of drivers, and I think someone is sending me tender wheels as well. Even though it would be fun to machine them myself, I don’t mind a little help along the way and it’s nice that other peoples’ work won’t go to waste!

Wow! That's pretty cool!  The drivers are pretty fun to make (and very iconic!)  But many (most? :)) of the parts are fun to make, so you've got a lot of fun ahead of you regardless   :ThumbsUp: ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2023, 10:30:50 PM
Today I completed the smokebox!

First, I did some filing to square up the corners in the steam-tee opening:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208l-Smokebox-1-DSC_3836.jpg)

And now, it fits!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208l-Smokebox-2-DSC_3838.jpg)

Then I tapped all the holes that needed tapping (four for the smokebox saddle and four for the headlight bracket.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208l-Smokebox-3-DSC_3841.jpg)

Then I did a test fitting of all the pieces to the smokebox.  They all fit where they should!  Yay!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208l-Smokebox-4-DSC_3844.jpg)

I even did a quick test to make sure the smokebox studs on the boiler matched up with the brackets in the smokebox, and they do!  (No pic, sorry).

With that good news, I took it apart, cleaned all the pieces, and reassembled with flux between each joint.  I also did the ‘center mark dimple’ thing in the mating surfaces to provide a little gap for the solder to wick into.

Then on to the hearth where I set it up with the steam-tee fitting facing up (so it wouldn’t fall out) and the smokestack bushing on the bottom.  I started with the smokestack bushing, attacking it from (mostly) below.  Then moved up to the steam-tee fitting.  For the last four items (the two brackets that connect to the boiler, and the two brackets for the door) I rearranged the smokebox between each one so that the one I was working on was in front and at the bottom so that gravity would help the solder find it’s way where I wanted it.

I completely forgot to take the before picture, but here’s the after soldering shot:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208l-Smokebox-5-DSC_3848.jpg)

All the joints seemed to look pretty good at this point, so I tossed it in the pickle and we’ll see what it looks like when it comes out!

The smokebox door will be the next item on the agenda.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2023, 11:07:28 PM
Great progress!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 26, 2023, 11:11:07 PM
Nice layout work!  I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago.  I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time.  And I should probably use it more often than I do!  :embarassed:

Kim
Just picked one up like it, arrived today (new tool!!  :cartwheel: )   There have been a number of times on recent models where it would have been very useful, like measuring actual distances from crank to crosshead, front frames vs rear frames, etc.

Now, I just have to remember I have it the next time it will be useful!   :wallbang:     :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 27, 2023, 12:05:47 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on April 27, 2023, 02:31:09 AM
Looking really good! I've been wondering--how's the boiler testing going? Still making progress?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 27, 2023, 03:16:11 AM
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685)

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 27, 2023, 03:21:41 AM
In one of the later books Kozo says that he had two builders he knew make the model from the first draft and included changes they discovered, to reduce the errors. Some of the early ones needed lists of changes that readers discovered, I remember seeing forums where those were posted (don't remember where)

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,11289.msg262685.html#msg262685)

Gene


 :ThumbsUp:   Great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 27, 2023, 07:16:52 AM
Looking really good! I've been wondering--how's the boiler testing going? Still making progress?

Well, I declared victory over the boiler a little over a week ago. You can check  post 2796 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266221.html#msg266221) if you want to see my post about it  ;D  It was quite the journey for me, but I came out of it a little smarter and with MUCH more experience than I went in, that's for sure!

Thanks for asking,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 27, 2023, 07:19:23 AM
Nice layout work!  I like that height marking gauge, looks like it does a much better job than just using the rod out the back of the dial caliper. Where did you find that gizmo? I need to find something like that.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
I'm pretty sure I picked the height gauge up from Little Machine Shop many years ago.  I don't use it a ton, but it really comes in handy from time to time.  And I should probably use it more often than I do!  :embarassed:

Kim
Just picked one up like it, arrived today (new tool!!  :cartwheel: )   There have been a number of times on recent models where it would have been very useful, like measuring actual distances from crank to crosshead, front frames vs rear frames, etc.

Now, I just have to remember I have it the next time it will be useful!   :wallbang:     :Jester:
No joke!  I've done that before where you do something then a few days later you think - Hey, I had the perfect tool for that, if only I'd remembered about it!  :facepalm:  Next time, I'll remember!

I think you'll enjoy having it Chris!  (not a hard thing to say about a new tool, eh? :))

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on April 27, 2023, 10:52:08 PM
Great progress Kim……. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 27, 2023, 11:32:28 PM
Thanks Don!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on April 28, 2023, 02:52:26 AM
Looking really good! I've been wondering--how's the boiler testing going? Still making progress?
Well, I declared victory over the boiler a little over a week ago. You can check  post 2796 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg266221.html#msg266221) if you want to see my post about it  ;D  It was quite the journey for me, but I came out of it a little smarter and with MUCH more experience than I went in, that's for sure!

I was on vacation for a week and missed that update! I thought I went back and caught up but I obviously missed the biggest news of the build! Congratulations on reaching that huge milestone!

Doug
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 28, 2023, 05:14:07 AM
Thank you, Doug!  :cheers:
Yeah, even at my snail's pace, it can be easy to get behind - especially on the boiler.  I was working on the boiler for over 4 months!  So to have it suddenly disappear from view would be surprising!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 28, 2023, 06:53:14 PM
Awesome progress, Kim!
 I've started on my cylinder castings.  Hope to post an update over the weekend.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2023, 01:48:19 AM
Awesome progress, Kim!
 I've started on my cylinder castings.  Hope to post an update over the weekend.

Todd
Thanks, Todd!  :cheers:

Looking forward to the update!  :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2023, 02:07:39 AM
Today was supposed to be Smokebox Door day. But instead, it was finish up the Smokebox itself day.

I started by filing down the heads of the brass hold-down screws that were used during silver soldering.  That went well!

Next, I wanted to fit it up to the boiler to make sure all was copasetic.  And it’s a good thing I checked, cause it wasn’t :(  While it fit and looked OK at first glance, upon closer inspection it was clear that things did not line up appropriately.  None of the longitude lines along the outside of the two cylinders actually lined up!  They were close – within 1/16” or so, but not close enough.  I’m afraid the smokestack would be pointing off toward the Jones or something…. Actually, now that I think about it – the smokestack would be straight because the orientation of the whole assembly is based on the steam-tee connection. But the whole boiler would be off by a few degrees.  Not only would the steam and sand domes be at an angle to the smokestack, but the bottom of the firebox wouldn’t sit flat on the grate (if it would even fit at that jaunty angle).  That wouldn’t be good.    Here you can see that the lines along the top of the smokebox and boiler don't match up.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-1-DSC_3851.JPG)

Here’s a close-up of the join between them. I highlighted the lines for clarity.  They can be hard to see in the picture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-1-DSC_3851_Annotated1.jpg)


So, I spent today figuring out how to work around this issue. I’d been so careful to line everything up, paying attention to my guidelines and all.  But here I am, off by a few degrees… Why?  Maybe just an accumulation of little errors?  Regardless, it had to be taken care of. This is just not acceptable. Even Mr. Good E. Nuff, head of the QA department, wouldn’t let this one go.

So, how to solve this?  My first thought was to just open the holes in the mounting brackets up a little more so I could rotate the smokebox a tad.  Even though I was worried there wasn’t enough meat on them to give me the whole distance needed, I started with that. I decided, worst case, I could solder some additional metal onto the bracket to make it wider so I could get the hole where it needed to be.  But first, I was just going to try opening up the existing holes.

I filed away at the holes and the lines kept getting closer.  I did one hole at a time checking frequently as I went. And I was able to get VERY close!  But the edge of the bracket was getting quite thin. You can see there’s not much metal remaining on one side of each bracket. (The thin part is the bottom on the left and the top on the right bracket.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-2-DSC_3861.jpg)

I considered leaving it at this, but I really needed another 10-15 thou or so.  So what I decided to do was to skim the threads off the top of the 8-32 SHC screws that go through these brackets.  That would give me a few more thou without having to change too much.  So I took the 8-32 screws to the lathe and proceeded to do just that:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-3-DSC_3867.jpg)

With those adjustments, I was able to get things lined up really well!  Yay!  I should have done the screw thing first.  That way I could have left a little more metal on the brackets.  Ah well, it is still quite solid!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-4-DSC_3871.jpg)

While doing all this fitting work I had a lot of time to think.  And I finally realized where the error came from.  In fact, once I figured it out, it became blindingly obvious.  This picture shows it quite well!  The front tube sheet of the boiler didn’t get oriented correctly before being soldered in place. It is permanently attached a few degrees clockwise from plumb.  :facepalm:  It’s quite clear looking at the boiler tubes or looking at the position of the two studs across the top - they should be even, but the left one is higher than the right one. Same goes for the smokebox studs (which you can see poking out from behind the smokebox brackets.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-5-DSC_3882.jpg)

Well, you live, you learn.  Apparently, the ONE piece that I didn’t get oriented properly. Urgh! Or at least, the one I’ve run into. I’m sure there are more lurking in the shadows!   ::)

And one more shot down the smokebox.  Here you can see the steam input stud sticking up out of the steam-tee and through the steam-tee fitting in the bottom of the smokebox.  This is what sets the orientation of the smokebox, and consequently, the whole boiler!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-7-DSC_3883.jpg)

While this was an embarrassing miss on my part, my workaround here is quite satisfactory.  Unless you’re looking in the smokebox, you’ll never know that the front of the boiler is rotated by a couple of degrees.  And I seriously doubt that it will make any difference in the performance of the boiler! :D

And to help you see how I’m really feeling about the whole thing, I took this full family shot of everything assembled to date:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/208m-Smokebox-6-DSC_3875.jpg)

It’s actually starting to look like a locomotive! :cartwheel: :cartwheel:

Now, the smokebox door is next.  Really.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on April 29, 2023, 02:17:45 AM
Nice fix on the smokebox rotation "timing" Kim! The last pic is great.   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 29, 2023, 02:23:43 AM
Good catch, great fix, admirable job of coming clean! Well done, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 29, 2023, 03:49:10 AM
The official explanation would be that you are preparing to run at high speed on superelevated curved track. The boiler needs to be tilted a bit to keep the crown sheet properly covered.   :pinkelephant:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 29, 2023, 03:50:09 AM
That family shot is great!   Now admit it, you were rolling it back and  forth while making  chuff chuff sounds!


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2023, 05:09:52 AM
Thanks Jeff, Ron, Gene and Chris!  :cheers:

The official explanation would be that you are preparing to run at high speed on superelevated curved track. The boiler needs to be tilted a bit to keep the crown sheet properly covered.   :pinkelephant:

Gene

Brilliant idea, Gene!  Hadn't thought of that!  It was built for the Formula 1 train racing circuit! The curve always has to be in the same direction!  :ROFL:

That family shot is great!   Now admit it, you were rolling it back and  forth while making  chuff chuff sounds!
Well, there may have been some chuffing going on  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 29, 2023, 07:48:26 AM
The boiler together with wheels of the locomotive look good. Another step further.

Michael    :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on April 29, 2023, 06:26:25 PM
WOW!  That's really looking great, Kim!  Nice fix for the smoke-box/boiler alignment.
I'm "chuffed" for you.  :cheers:

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 29, 2023, 11:54:50 PM
She's a locomotive!!!

That's looking the part Kim....and I am so impressed with how you have documented this build along the way too.   That's a lot of work by itself!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 30, 2023, 12:04:46 AM
She looks amazing Kim!
I'm still here quietly following along.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 01:05:14 AM
Thank you, Michael, Todd, Dave, and Dave!  :cheers:

Really appreciate you guys all following along :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 01:10:49 AM
Chapter 25.2 – Smokebox Door

The Smokebox Door!  A new subproject!  How fun!

Today was all about planning.  Some people can think this all out in their heads, but for me, I have to sit down with my pencil, engineering paper, and a calculator and scribble about it for a long time.  Especially on a complex part like this.

I worked out my order of operations for the smokebox door and I calculated the DRO positions for drilling all the holes and creating the milled features.

And I made the first steps in metal!  I cut a chunk of 1/2" x 4” 303 stainless steel bar to use for the door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_3903.jpg)

I just looked at the price now – it’s gone up more than 2.5x from when I purchased it a few years back!  Wow, metal is expensive these days!  Of course, I went with stainless because it was cheaper than brass at the time.  Not a lot, but some. And every little bit of savings helped make this project possible! :)

Here’s most of my day's work and the two chunks of metal I cut for this.  The one on the right is the 303 stainless that will become the smokebox door.  The 3.5” round chunk of aluminum will be used as a mandrel while working on this part.  I knew I’d need that so I had the bandsaw working away on it in the background most of the day while I was cogitating.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-5-DSC_3906.jpg)

After this, I went back in the house to use the computer and create a step-off chart for turning the profile of the front part of the door.  And here it is.  The door profile is a compound curve and I felt a spreadsheet was a a better tool for this than paper and a calculator.  I made a graph showing the profile I’ll be trying to create here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-ExcelSmokeboxDoorProfile.jpg)

One more thing.  My aunt had asked me for a picture of my progress on my steam engine project a while back.  I felt this was a good time to send her one since it’s actually starting to look the part now.  And I also got out the tender and set it up with the engine.  Wow! It looks really good!  :cartwheel:  I can’t believe how big it is put together like that. I think this is the first time I’ve done that.  Anyway, I just had to share some pictures of it with you all.

So here are the beauty shots:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3893.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3899.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209a-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_3900.jpg)

Thanks for sharing in my enjoyment!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2023, 01:13:41 AM
Those shots of engine and tender look fantastic!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 30, 2023, 01:25:39 AM
That looks great Kim!
I do have a question, it seems that the boiler is so far to the rear that there is no place for the engineer and fireman to stand? Is this typical of this type of locomotive? Just curious.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on April 30, 2023, 01:46:06 AM
I do have a question, it seems that the boiler is so far to the rear that there is no place for the engineer and fireman to stand? Is this typical of this type of locomotive? Just curious.

There's a video of one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3DiFhSq2o

So yes, it would seem the driver & fireman would have had to cling onto the back! Or, presumably, that cut-out in the tender is for them to stand in?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2023, 01:57:07 AM
I've seen some full size locos where the engineer stood on the front of the tender as you describe - they did have a piece of thick floor plate that floated on a post between the tender and engine to keep them from falling through when going around bends (hey, where'd Fred go?   :Jester: )  The fireman would be back in that cutout at least, the coal pile would come up to there, with a short vertical wall to keep the coal from all running out.

Great video Ade! Looking forward to seeing Kim's version of it!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 30, 2023, 02:14:57 AM
Thanks, it does seem that from looking at the video that it is pretty close quarters in the cab.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on April 30, 2023, 02:20:23 AM
As I recall,  Kozo had a riding car directly behind the tender with firing tools to match.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 02:25:53 AM
That looks great Kim!
I do have a question, it seems that the boiler is so far to the rear that there is no place for the engineer and fireman to stand? Is this typical of this type of locomotive? Just curious.

Dave

Good question, Dave!  Unfortunately, I don't really have an answer for you on this one.  I'm actually not a train head enough to know this kind of detail.

Based on the the few pictures I have found online for the A3, it looks like there was a little more room behind the boiler on the actual prototype locomotive:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/c5/18/d7c5182c7ff21cb2687c2e8190de333f.jpg)

There's one here too, but it's not secure so won't show up without clicking on it.
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/central%20islip/C.I.-State-Hospital_Class-A3_0-4-0_drill-engine-no.3.jpg (http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/central%20islip/C.I.-State-Hospital_Class-A3_0-4-0_drill-engine-no.3.jpg)


But I don't really know if these pictures are really the Pennsylvania A3 Switcher, or just something similar.

I'm guessing that the boiler extending so far back is a compromise Kozo made to make the boiler large enough to do the job, but still fit on the scale chassis.  And for the model, the engineer will be sitting on the tender or a car behind the tender. The top of the cab flips up allowing you to be able to get to the controls for the engine.  None of that is prototypical either, of course.

Hopefully, someone who actually knows about real locomotives can answer this question better!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 02:26:58 AM
As I recall,  Kozo had a riding car directly behind the tender with firing tools to match.
Yes, he rode behind the tender.  Sorry, Dave, our replies crossed in the either. :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2023, 02:30:09 AM
I've seen a number of full size locos like this one with a plate spanning the gap. This picture is of a model but same idea.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 02:32:13 AM
I've seen some full size locos where the engineer stood on the front of the tender as you describe - they did have a piece of thick floor plate that floated on a post between the tender and engine to keep them from falling through when going around bends (hey, where'd Fred go?   :Jester: )  The fireman would be back in that cutout at least, the coal pile would come up to there, with a short vertical wall to keep the coal from all running out.

Great video Ade! Looking forward to seeing Kim's version of it!

Interesting... I didn't know that about the floating floor plate!

Do you know for a fact that they didn't stand in the cab in the engine, Chris?  I considered that, but in the images I found above, it looks like there is a bit more room in the cab in the prototype than in the model.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2023, 02:38:01 AM
I've seen some full size locos where the engineer stood on the front of the tender as you describe - they did have a piece of thick floor plate that floated on a post between the tender and engine to keep them from falling through when going around bends (hey, where'd Fred go?   :Jester: )  The fireman would be back in that cutout at least, the coal pile would come up to there, with a short vertical wall to keep the coal from all running out.

Great video Ade! Looking forward to seeing Kim's version of it!

Interesting... I didn't know that about the floating floor plate!

Do you know for a fact that they didn't stand in the cab in the engine, Chris?  I considered that, but in the images, I found above, it looks like there is a bit more room in the cab in the prototype than in the model.

Kim
I dont know about the A3, but normally  they would stand in the  engine, and the fireman would be able to walk back and forth  over the plate. I'm sure  there were exceptions,  there were so many designs. As you mentioned,  Kozo likely extended the boiler for max volume and to make it easier to  reach the backhead from the seat.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on April 30, 2023, 05:42:32 AM
Really impressive with the tender connected!!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Zephyrin on April 30, 2023, 09:05:16 AM

just like wobbles in the flywheel rotation, skewed chimney or misaligned fittings on a loco boiler are the first things people see...good you have seen that and fixed it in time!
the method with which you proceed is very instructive, thanks to share...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on April 30, 2023, 01:10:26 PM
Hi Kim

Sent you a PM

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 30, 2023, 03:51:33 PM
My copy of Steam Locomotives by Linn Westcott includes elevation drawings of the A3. The side view clearly shows the firebox extending into the cab about as far as Kozo has it. The engineer would have been working mostly alongside it, with the fireman spending most of his time "outside", working from the tender and the bridge plate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VsZ82H5f/Cover.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8cmtQYm1/IMG_3635.jpg)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on April 30, 2023, 03:52:56 PM
Great info Ron! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on April 30, 2023, 04:08:26 PM
Yes, thanks Ron. It appears that Kozo has it correct! It is an interesting design but I guess that being a switch engine creature comforts may be different than a loco that was used out on the main line.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 04:43:58 PM
Thank you, Krypto, Zephyrin!   :cheers:

Rich, I'll PM you.

Ron, that is a fantastic picture and really shows how little room there was in the cab!  Thank you very much for taking the time to look that up, scan it and post it!

Thanks, Chris and Dave for bringing up a topic that I've been wondering about myself. Guess like you said, Dave, for a switcher, they may not have spent a lot of time in the cab anyways - in and out hooking up cars and moving them about in the yard...

Just shows what an incredible wealth of knowledge exists in this forum!  You guys are amazing!
Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on April 30, 2023, 05:07:38 PM
Kim, your engine is going to be beautiful.
I like shunters.
As a child, I could still watch steam locomotives at work from time to time at the station. Steam locomotives were still in use with us until 1983.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 30, 2023, 05:30:44 PM
Quote
Guess like you said, Dave, for a switcher, they may not have spent a lot of time in the cab anyways - in and out hooking up cars and moving them about in the yard...
Well, the engineer and fireman would have stayed with the loco; the brakemen, and in switching probably a conductor, would drop off to do the sorting, coupling/uncoupling, and possibly throwing switches too. But no, crew comfort was not a priority. This video from inside the cab of the ER&L Co "Falk", which I used to help operate and maintain, shows the coziness crews often "enjoyed" with their boiler. Luckily that boiler is pretty small, but it still gets hot!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoRxXKk2Yi4
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 06:56:50 PM
Thanks Michael!  :cheers:

Ron,
Thanks for the video!  That's quite interesting. And it must have been fun to operate that loco too!

It's tight in there, but it looks like WAY more room than in the A3.   It looks like they only have a foot or two between the backhead and the edge of the engine. I guess the bridge plate would help a lot since it allows them to stand 'between' the engine and the tender.  But still, not a lot of room!

Interestingly, the model doesn't seem to have the bridge plate.  Was that an aftermarket feature?  Or did locomotives come fully equipped with a bridge plate between the engine and tender?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on April 30, 2023, 07:08:49 PM
In the introduction section of the book Kozo claims his version is faithful to the prototype with a couple of exceptions. The valve gear was changed from Stephenson to Walschaerts for visual interest, and the boiler was changed from a Belpaire-shouldered version to a simple round top for ease of fabrication.

Obviously there are many simplifications required by scaling, but the major dimensions should be close to correct.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on April 30, 2023, 07:15:27 PM
In the introduction section of the book Kozo claims his version is faithful to the prototype with a couple of exceptions. The valve gear was changed from Stephenson to Walschaerts for visual interest, and the boiler was changed from a Belpaire-shouldered version to a simple round top for ease of fabrication.

Obviously there are many simplifications required by scaling, but the major dimensions should be close to correct.

Gene

Good point, Gene!

I had to google "Belpaire" to know what that was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belpaire_firebox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belpaire_firebox)

Pretty fascinating.  Yes, the round top boiler that I made here was plenty of a challenge!  Glad he didn't go with the Belpaire!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on April 30, 2023, 08:48:53 PM
Quote
Interestingly, the model doesn't seem to have the bridge plate.  Was that an aftermarket feature?  Or did locomotives come fully equipped with a bridge plate between the engine and tender?
I think all locos with a tender would have needed and been delivered with a bridge plate from the mfgr, but they are often left off of models. The Falk doesn't have a tender, there is a rectangular tank at the rear for water, with maybe 18-24" of floor space in front of that reserved for the wood pile. A passenger in the cab generally sits on that wood pile, which is the only place to be "out of the way". This is all just behind the "door" opening visible in the video.

Correction: The water tank actually forms a kind of shelf, on top of which the wood is piled. Without the wood there it would be like a bench seat. I'd forgotten that detail until I reviewed some photos. The end result is the same, though.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 30, 2023, 09:55:29 PM
I've been away for most of a weekend, and I now see a 'complete family shot' - that looks like a Locomotive Kim  :praise2:

I haven't seen any Steam Loco, without the plate (unless it's a Tender-Loco) .... That said - there are many different ways to do them (and a lot of similarities) ....

Pass the   :popcorn:  and hoist a few  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2023, 04:54:01 AM
Quote
Interestingly, the model doesn't seem to have the bridge plate.  Was that an aftermarket feature?  Or did locomotives come fully equipped with a bridge plate between the engine and tender?
I think all locos with a tender would have needed and been delivered with a bridge plate from the mfgr, but they are often left off of models. The Falk doesn't have a tender, there is a rectangular tank at the rear for water, with maybe 18-24" of floor space in front of that reserved for the wood pile. A passenger in the cab generally sits on that wood pile, which is the only place to be "out of the way". This is all just behind the "door" opening visible in the video.

Correction: The water tank actually forms a kind of shelf, on top of which the wood is piled. Without the wood there it would be like a bench seat. I'd forgotten that detail until I reviewed some photos. The end result is the same, though.

Thanks, Ron!
It's great to get real first hand knowledge about some of these things.  I only know what I've seen in pictures or read on the internet.  And you KNOW its true if you read it on the internet, right?!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2023, 04:54:24 AM
Thank you Per!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2023, 06:35:33 PM
I have a question for you experienced locomotive builders...

Should I paint the boiler?  Most of the length of the boiler will be covered by a jacket, which will be painted.  The back part of the boiler, the part over the firebox, will not be covered by the jacket but will be inside the cab.  Seems like I should paint that part at least?  And the smokebox, won't be covered by the jacket so will be painted.

And if I do paint the boiler, will it be OK to powder coat it?  The powder coating will tolerate heat up to 250F, which seems like it should be OK since most of the boiler should have water in it.  Hot water, but it can't be over 212F or it would be steam, right? The top part of the boiler will have steam in it though, and at 100psi the steam will be at 332F.  Now, the outside temp will be lower than that and the copper will spread the heat around a lot and bring the team down.  But will it come down 80 degrees (below the 250F rating for the powder coating)?   Probably not. So does that mean I can't use powder coating for the boiler?

I've got some high-heat black rattle can stuff (Rust-Oleum) that I used for the steam tractor.  I could use that for the boiler.  But I'd prefer to use the powder coat if I can.  Maybe for the jacket, but not the boiler itself?

Any tips or bits of wisdom on this for me?

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 01, 2023, 07:00:42 PM
I don't know about the powder coat on the firebox, seems like you are close to the limit of what it can take, and it would be a mess if it got too hot, though I have zero experience with powder coat. Areas like the firebox door and its surround could easily get a lot hotter than other areas.  A paint I've used on hot parts (and lots of others) is the Duplicolor Engine Enamel with Ceramic. Rattle can stuff, available at auto parts stores. Takes the high heat, no oven curing required, thin, covers well, and easy to touch up. I've used it on boilers that were gas fired, never coal fired one. There are also a number of paints that require a oven cure that will take very high heat.

For the part under the jacket, seems like a waste of paint and time, though if you are painting the other areas around it then painting it all would save masking time, just let it overspray.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 01, 2023, 08:39:48 PM
Hi Kim, I would not recommend powder coating a boiler. Two reasons - the plastic in powder coat is not resistant to the temps in hot areas like the firedoor and surrounding areas and possibly on the top of the boiler, and the smokebox. Second - lets say you find one that claims will do the job - what if it melts and runs in some areas hotter than you thought? it would be a heck of a mess to clean off.

Some guys I know who run small locomotives regularly use VHT exhaust header paint (flat black or silver colour sprays, intended for cars and trucks) or BBQ paint. Both are rated to 1500 deg F. They stand up to really high temps. The only problem is that over time this paint goes a bit chalky and rubs off areas touched frequently, like fire doors. It sticks best to clean steel surfaces. Not sure how well it sticks to copper, although it seems OK on the copper surfs in the small locos I mentioned. I have used it on steel vertical boilers and burners of various sorts. Just food for thought.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 01, 2023, 09:05:18 PM
Hi KIm

After a few re-solderings (read that as many) :( the back head on my build of CHUB was a bit of a mess so I made a steel cover that is just a tight fit on the boiler. Its then sprayed with high temp paint

(https://i.imgur.com/3IBa4GS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/YINp27T.jpg)

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2023, 11:46:08 PM
Thanks for the input, Chris, Jeff, and Rich!

I've used BBQ rattle-can paint before with some success.  That's what I'm kind of leaning toward.  Plus, I've got some on hand!

Rich, that's a great idea with the backhead cover plate.  Kinda like making a little jacket for the backhead!

Wonder if I could get away with powder coating just the jacket?  I could even put a thin layer of cork or something between the jacket and the boiler...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: MJM460 on May 02, 2023, 12:27:50 AM
Hi Kim, been following since the beginning and in awe of your boiler making adventure.  It’s coming on beautifully.

Not so the thermodynamics however.

The steam and water will be very close to the same temperature in the boiler.  Water is only constrained to boiling at 212 degrees at atmospheric pressure.  At 100 psi the boiling temperature is higher with temperature and pressure related until all the water is boiled.  Once dry steam is in the superheater its temperature can rise further.  (I haven’t checked the steam tables but your 350 degrees sound about right.  I can look it up for you if you need it.)

And of course, if the safety valve is lifting, the pressure and therefore temperature will be higher.  You need to look up the temperature at the safety setting, plus the over pressure that occurs during valve lifting (at least a further 10%). 

The outside of the copper will be a little lower, but the conductivity of copper means only a little lower.

I have no experience with painting of boilers, but in industry special high temperature paints are used.  The bar-b-que paint recommended by others might be a better choice. 

Looking forward to following the continuing progress.

MJM460



Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on May 02, 2023, 12:30:18 AM
Hot water, but it can't be over 212F or it would be steam, right? The top part of the boiler will have steam in it though, and at 100psi the steam will be at 332F.
Hi Kim,
The water temperature will be the same as the steam, so ~328F at 100 PSI.  The increase in pressure is what raises the boiling point.  So for boiler temperature you need to treat the entire boiler as being at the same (elevated) temperature.



I see MJM beat me to this as I was writing...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 01:01:54 AM
Thanks, MJM and Mike!
Appreciate you pointing out the flaws in my physics!

MJM, the numbers I was quoting for steam should be close.  I looked them up on some random Pressure/Temperature chart that I googled online.  It could be wrong, but seemed reasonable.  It had some granularity to it so I did some rounding.  But the numbers match pretty closely with what you're saying, Mike.  I'm sure my rounding and loose conversions (the table was in bar and degrees C - I think in PSI and degrees F) make up for any error in the number I quoted.

Looks like I will defiantly NOT be using powder coat for the boiler itself, that's for sure!

Thank you for the input!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 01:20:08 AM
I took the ~4”x4” stainless steel square and cut the four corners so there’d be less interrupted cut to make the thing round.  Then I put it in the 4-jaw chuck in the lathe, faced it off on one side, and drilled a #26 center hole which is tapping size for 8-36 (odd size, but it’s what Kozo specified, and I’ve got an 8-36 tap, so why not use it? 😊)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3910.jpg)

The faced side will be the backside. I need to make some holes in the backside before we glue it to the arbor.  So I centered it up on the mill:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3917.jpg)

Drilled the two outside holes which are for the door mounting screws, and then put three blind holes in a circle pattern in the center.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_3921.jpg)

And tapped those three center holes #3-48.  These three holes are for attaching the smokebox weight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_3924.jpg)

Next, I took the aluminum chunk I’d cut, faced off both ends, and made a glue mandrel out of it.  I also put a #26 hole in the center to help align the door blank.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-5-DSC_3914.jpg)

Using some CA glue, I proceeded to glue the door blank (faced side against the arbor) to the arbor.  The tailstock is pressed against the part to help it stay in place while curing.  I started with a gauge pin in the center hole as a way to align the part to the center of the lathe.  The mandrel hasn’t been removed from the chuck since I drilled the center hole, so we should be good there.  But I took the pin out of the hole after a minute so that it wouldn’t get glued in place!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-6-DSC_3929.jpg)

At that, I left the part to cure to the mandrel overnight.

Next day (today) I came out and proceeded to round off the door blank and face it to the proper width (which is 15/32”).  This all went well.  But it was very hard on the tool bit.  Guess the 303 stainless is harder than I thought.  It’s taking quite a bit of effort to cut this stuff!  I even sharpened the tool bit once during this operation, which seemed to help some ... for a while at least (ominous foreshadowing).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-7-DSC_3931.jpg)

Next, I started to take down the outside edge of the door.  I’ll be leaving the center section as a short cylinder on top of the door for now.  I plan to shape it in the next operation.  My intent now is to just remove the bulk of the material before I start shaping.

However, while doing this I was watching my tool bit get duller and duller – the cutting edge was just really ugly.  I had already sharpened it once, which really helped.  But it's such a pain to take the bit out, sharpen it, put it back in the holder, re-align it to the center, re-calibrate the DRO settings, etc, that I decided to take it down ‘close’ to the final dimensions before I resharpened.  That way I could get away with only having to re-sharpen it one more time.  :facepalm: Did you just smack yourself in the forehead hearing that?  Or better yet, smack me in the forehead? :slap: I needed it!  I clearly made a big mistake in my logic.  I should have sharpened that bit several more times already.  Because as you all predicted, the dull tool and my overly aggressive cuts (things had been going so well that I started getting greedy) generated enough heat in the part that it released the CA glue bond.  And boy, was it hot! Youch!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-8-DSC_3933.jpg)

Luckily, it was a very non-catastrophic failure.  The part just let go of the mandrel and hung on the tool while the mandrel kept spinning along behind it.  You could hardly ask for a more benign failure.

However, my ‘savings’ by not re-sharpening the tool cost me a lot of time.  Now I have re-set the part on the mandrel and hopefully get it centered well enough that I can continue with the shaping.

To clean the dried glue off the back I used a razor blade scraper, which did a great job of getting all the glue off.  Then I gave it a good rub down with acetone.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209b-SmokeboxDoor-9-DSC_3937.jpg)

Then I refaced the mandrel (figured I should start with a good clean face there too), cleaned it, and now the nascent door is curing to the mandrel again.  And I’ll continue on tomorrow – with newly sharpened tools and taking less aggressive cuts!

The 303 is a lot harder to turn than I’d realized before.  Guess I’ve only really ever worked with small diameter 303 rod. This big hunk of stainless is a lot tougher to work than I’d pictured.

Well, it’s all about learning, isn’t it :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 02, 2023, 01:46:14 AM
Wow, you got lucky that it didn't hit one of the jaws and kick out!  Would it be possible to put a screw in that center hole and into the arbor?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on May 02, 2023, 03:02:35 AM
If that chunk of 303 is really 4 inches across it means the circumference is close to one foot. For a reasonable surface speed using HSS tooling the RPM should be no more than about 30 to 40.

Rapid tool wear will happen if you are turning too fast. SS has relatively poor heat conductivity so the temperature can build up fast.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 02, 2023, 03:44:57 AM
For my work with 303, well for everything on the lathe, I use carbide inserts, they last a good long time at whatever speed. Grinding my own would be a lot cheaper, but my grinding skills are not that great!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 05:20:54 AM
If that chunk of 303 is really 4 inches across it means the circumference is close to one foot. For a reasonable surface speed using HSS tooling the RPM should be no more than about 30 to 40.

Rapid tool wear will happen if you are turning too fast. SS has relatively poor heat conductivity so the temperature can build up fast.

Gene

You are SO right, Gene!
As it stands now, the diameter of the 303 is 3.74", so yeah, it's almost 12" in diameter.  Hmm... perhaps I've been running it too fast! 

When I was taking it to diameter I was running much slower - like 190RPM or something (190 SFM or so) but I had a pretty bad interrupted cut for most of that time (taking the corners off my octagon).

But most of the time I was doing facing cuts which meant it was faster at the outside and way to slow on the inside.  I had found that 480 RPM seemed to be giving me a pretty decent surface finish across most of the part - not as good on the larger circumferences, but tolerable.  The quite good from about 3/4 of the way in clear to the center.  So that's what I was using most of the time.

Looking up the recommended SFM for 303 Stainless with HSS tooling, the table on LMS recommends 115-135 SFM.  So according to that, I was going WAY too fast!  Like about 4x too fast!  I need to slow it down to closer to 100 RMP.

I'll try that tomorrow and see if that doesn't work better!

Thanks, Gene.  I should have thought of that myself.  I usually turn SS pretty fast, but then, I usually am only working with small diameter SS rod. So of course a higher RMP is needed.  Duh...

More living and learning!
Kim

 

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 05:26:32 AM
Wow, you got lucky that it didn't hit one of the jaws and kick out!
So true!

Would it be possible to put a screw in that center hole and into the arbor?
Unfortunately, no, since I have to face across the whole diameter.
For taking down the outer diameter I did use a live center pushed in that hole to help hold it on.  I could do that for some of these cuts, just not the ones that need to go all the way to the center, of course.  But that would help.

For my work with 303, well for everything on the lathe, I use carbide inserts, they last a good long time at whatever speed. Grinding my own would be a lot cheaper, but my grinding skills are not that great!
Yeah, I've considered getting some insert tooling.  The only insert tooling I have for the lathe is the Warner grooving tool and a boring bar.  And I've got HSS inserts for those.  But no standard insert tools.  May have to expand my tooling!  I do most of my lathe work with the tangential tools.  The have worked really well for almost anything I've thrown at them.  I'm betting they'll do better if I treat them right and slow my speed down to something more reasonable for 303 & HSS!

Thanks Chris,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on May 02, 2023, 09:01:30 AM
Hi Kim,
 Is that a new workshop tee shirt you are wearing? Good save!

Just a heads up, eccentric engineering supply Crobalt tool steel for the Tangential tool holders….

https://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/shop/Crobalt-and-CoHSS-Cutting-Tips-c46073042

I havent got any yet but should get a couple of bits, says it’s good for stainless & cast iron.

Keep up the great work!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 05:53:15 PM
Thanks Kerrin!
Good tip!  I may have to get some of that Cobalt tool steel.  It looks like what I need for stainless.

I'll probably just limp along for this particular turning exercise, but it will be good to have on hand for next time, that's for sure.  It looks like good stuff if you watch their video. It's pretty impressive!

I'll try slowing down my RMP quite a bit and see if I can finish up this part with the M42 CoHSS that I've got.  I ordered a few extra tool blanks when I bought the tangential holders but don't remember that CroBalt being available then.  Maybe it was though, I don't know.

Looks like good stuff though!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2023, 06:38:46 PM
Well, go figure!
I went and checked, and the extra tool blanks I purchased with the Diamond tangential holders ARE CroBalt, not the M42!  Hot diggity dog!  I'm going to give that a try today and see how it goes.

I didn't remember I had those!  What an unexpected bit of fun, eh? 

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Blondihacks on May 02, 2023, 06:54:06 PM
Looking great, Kim!

Don't feel bad about the crooked front tube sheet. It's really difficult to get that straight, and I suspect mine is a little crooked as well. I'm planning to do the mounting brackets last so I can align them as needed, or perhaps make them larger and slotted for adjustment.

I am honestly surprised that Kozo doesn't emphasize in the book how crucial the alignment of those front mounting bosses is on the boiler. The entire front third of the locomotive hangs on them and getting them straight is really tough when silver soldering. Some room for human error in the attachment brackets definitely would have been a good idea. He's much more of a "make it perfect" than a "make it adjustable" kind of guy.  :D

Regarding painting the boiler, I definitely would. You can see the throat sheet and lower firebox on the finished engine, so it would look odd unpainted. Look closely at the cover photo and you can see what I mean.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2023, 12:20:17 AM
Don't feel bad about the crooked front tube sheet. It's really difficult to get that straight, and I suspect mine is a little crooked as well. I'm planning to do the mounting brackets last so I can align them as needed, or perhaps make them larger and slotted for adjustment.
Thanks Quinn,  I don't feel bad, just a little stooopid that I didn't catch before soldering.  if you know what I mean  :embarrassed:

But I think I've got that issue licked.  Now I'm on to the next one!  As I tell my wife, isn't that the point of a hobby?  To go from one issue to the next?  If there weren't any issues what would be the fun? Where would you ever get the endorphin rush of having completed a hard thing?! :)

I am honestly surprised that Kozo doesn't emphasize in the book how crucial the alignment of those front mounting bosses is on the boiler. The entire front third of the locomotive hangs on them and getting them straight is really tough when silver soldering. Some room for human error in the attachment brackets definitely would have been a good idea. He's much more of a "make it perfect" than a "make it adjustable" kind of guy.  :D
Very true!  I do try to make it perfect, but my perfect isn't always that 'perfect' :)

Regarding painting the boiler, I definitely would. You can see the throat sheet and lower firebox on the finished engine, so it would look odd unpainted. Look closely at the cover photo and you can see what I mean.
Thanks! You are right about that.  Hadn't thought about those lower parts exposed below the cab.  So it's clear I need to paint.  And probably not powder coat the boiler.  So BBQ paint it will be! (for me at least)

Thanks, Quinn!  Appreciate the thoughts!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2023, 12:33:32 AM
Well, today was a mixed day in the shop.

The good news is that using the Crobalt tool in the tangential holder worked MUCH better on the 303 stainless.  It wasn’t perfect, and there's certainly room to improve the surface finish, but the tool didn’t degrade and lose its tip after 30 seconds either. Which is a BIG plus!  I was able to do a lot of cutting and the tool is still going strong.  It still looks great!

So, here’s the part with the outer edge taken down. The raised section in the middle will be shaped into the door. I should probably mention that this is a false door.  The door doesn’t actually open and the hinges are fake too, of course.  This entire front piece can be removed from the smokebox, but the door is just for looks. Regardless, here’s the part after working it over with the Crobalt tangential tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209c-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3939.jpg)

I kept the center up against the part as a backup for the CA, though I don’t know that it was needed.  The tool cut much better and the part stayed quite cool.  Just warm to the touch but not super hot either like it was yesterday – more like normal when you’re turning something.

I also turned it a little slower, down around 200 RPM. Faster than the recommended for HSS, but since this isn’t exactly HSS, it seemed that a little more speed was OK.  The video of them using the Crobalt showed them using a much higher speed for a fairly large diameter part. Much higher than the HSS numbers would support.  So I hoped additional speed was OK. I may experiment more with that tomorrow.

It was time to try and form the door shape on the front of the part.  The tool was cutting well and I had my chart all ready to go.  So I started making little cuts.  Most of them in the 2-5 thou deep range. Here’s my chart I was progressing through (second page even):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209c-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3942.jpg)

Unfortunately, as I was getting close to the end of the step-off chart, I started to realize that something wasn’t matching up.  I was getting too close to the outer surface of the part.  The door is supposed to be raised by 1/16” in the center of the part, and I realized I’d accidentally made my chart to come out flush with the face of the part :(

It was at this point that I stopped.  I considered ways I could salvage the part, but I’d already taken too much off. There really didn’t seem to be any way to save it.  On the plus side, I’ve got extra stainless so I can remake the part without ordering any new material.  It just sort of takes the wind out of your sails when you think you’ve been making progress only to find out you’ve been making a test part instead.  Ah well, I learned a lot with this test part, didn’t I?

The formed part was coming out pretty rough, I should have taken a picture of that.  This stainless doesn’t seem to like it when you shave off a few thou.  It seems to prefer deeper cuts.  But for my forming to work I need small little passes.  And these tiny passes each roll up a pretty significant burr at the end of the cut. What I had was the formed shape hidden by a field of burrs!  So I took a file to them to see how it would clean up.  And I think it will look pretty good.  I didn’t clean it up all the way, but I’m now satisfied it is possible to get there:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209c-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_3945.jpg)

Here’s a picture of what the door profile is supposed to look like.  The red arrow marks the 1/16” lip that is supposed to represent the edge of the door.  I forgot to allow for that in my calculations so the door profile would have just blended into the rest of the front.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209c-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_3953.jpg)

Interestingly, when I got the right height for the door profile entered in the spreadsheet, I couldn’t get the radii supplied by Kozo to match up (circled in green in the above pic).  The inflection point was a step function!  I had to fiddle with the radii to get a smooth transition there.  I ended up using 3.5” and 1.375” for the radii to get them to match up.  But it looks pretty good now and SHOULD provide the profile I want.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/SmokeboxDoorSSTake2.jpg)

Anyway, now I’m ready for Take 2 on the smokebox door!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 03, 2023, 01:35:55 AM
Just a thought Kim - since the curve on your door is OK, just too deep, could you use the part you made as a tool to press-form a sheetmetal door? maybe from a sheet of copper? If you were to sandwich a piece of sheet stock between the door turning and a hard tooling urethane disk, you could press form the blank to the curvature in a big vise or a press of some kind. Not much lost if it doesn't turn out, but a heck of a lot of work saved if it does work. Afterward, the door blank could be turned further, cuuting away the curved bit and omitting the step, to enable mounting the door blank as planned to the smokebox. The tapped holes for the door dogs could be as per plans still, they would just hold the pressed door part in place on the disk. By the way, the steel curved face would need to be filed and polished well for good results as a press tool.

Most diemaking supply firms will have the tooling urethane I mentioned. You could also try a smooth faced hockey puck first, it may work fine on copper sheet. Back thousands of years ago in my day job we made all sorts of one sided dies to press form metal sheet when only a few formed parts were needed. Saved building a two piece tool steel die.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 03, 2023, 03:26:22 AM
Hey Kim have you tried graving. I did graving on stainless when I built my grasshopper. You’re using aluminum should be easy.
By the way nice work..

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2023, 05:00:09 AM
Hi Jeff,
Interesting suggestion.  Thinking about your idea made me think about other fabrication methods, like boring out a hole in the middle of this part where the door would be, soldering a new slug in the middle, and then shaping that.

But I've already started down the re-do road.  So I'll probably stick with that for now.  Maybe take 3 will be a fab method!  :Lol:

Thanks Don!
Good thoughts on hand graving. I was thinking similar thoughts but wasn't sure that graving would work on stainless steel.  But apparently, it does!  Not sure I'll use that this time, but I'll keep it in mind for future.

Thank you both!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 03, 2023, 04:57:16 PM
 :cheers: Hopefully you can avoid take 3!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 03, 2023, 05:11:20 PM
The engine and tender look great  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

I hope the smokebox door goes more smoothly this time  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 04, 2023, 03:30:02 AM
Thanks Jeff and Roger!  :cheers:

Didn't make any headway today. This was visit with relatives day.  A good day, but not a shop day!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 04, 2023, 09:13:50 AM
Hi Kim

Sent you a PM

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 05, 2023, 10:19:43 AM
Hi Kim

On my Conway the smoke box door is steel and then zinc plated, its lasted well

(https://i.imgur.com/VoaWpni.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gnT4Hf9.jpg)

On Chub the smoke box door is also steel but this time nickel plated

(https://i.imgur.com/hm8UIWe.jpg)

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2023, 05:39:25 PM
Thanks Rich!
Those look really nice!  Probably would have been easier than the stainless steel I've chosen here.
I'll have to remember that for next time.

Good to hear there hasn't been any rusting problems.  That was my worry. The plating probably helps that though!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JonHarman on May 05, 2023, 08:49:06 PM
Kim, I am at the tender stage of Pennsy A3 and wondering what soft solder/flux that is required? Can it be plumbing or electrical or does it need to be a general purpose that is different than these?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2023, 09:17:26 PM
Kim, I am at the tender stage of Pennsy A3 and wondering what soft solder/flux that is required? Can it be plumbing or electrical or does it need to be a general purpose that is different than these?
Hi Jon,
I don't know if flux intended for electrical would work here or not.  It might, but it might not work as well as something designed more for metals.  I can tell you that for soft soldering I've been using the Harris Stay-Clean paste solder and it has worked well for me.  Here's a link to in on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWC4KE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWC4KE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1)

For silver soldering I've had great luck with the Harris Stay Silv flux.  There's white, which is good general-purpose silver solder flux: https://www.amazon.com/Harris-SSWF1-Stay-Brazing-White/dp/B005ENPK6W/ (https://www.amazon.com/Harris-SSWF1-Stay-Brazing-White/dp/B005ENPK6W/)
And there's black, which works better for larger items that will take longer to get up to temp.  For the boiler I've been using exclusively the Harris Black flux. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDMM4KU/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EDMM4KU/)

Hope that helps.  I'm sure there are other brands or types of flux that will work well too. But this is what I have experience with.

Looking forward to seeing your progress on your build! Enjoy!  It's a lot of fun!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JonHarman on May 05, 2023, 11:43:12 PM
Thanks, Kim. I have worked silver soldering other assemblies on the tender, but not the soft solder. Appreciate the links.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 06, 2023, 08:54:35 PM
Graving the dome cover for my Grasshopper. This is stainless,  I used the back of a file I sharpened.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 06, 2023, 09:54:43 PM
Very impressive Don!  Did you use normal turning tools to get it close, then finished with the graver, or did the graver do all the work from the cylinder?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2023, 10:58:50 PM
That's really nice looking, Don!  :ThumbsUp:
I'll have to try graving some day. It looks kinda fun! More like wood turning I guess (which I always found scary, not fun... interesting...)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 06, 2023, 10:59:45 PM
That's a great looking dome Don!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 06, 2023, 11:48:32 PM
I’ve finally caught up with where I was and have now started to make forward progress again.

This time when making my roughing profile cuts from my New Improved Step-Off Table (TM) I chose to use a more round-nosed tool.  I hoped this would give a better surface finish, which it did.  It didn’t plow up the rough burr like the tangential tool did, even when taking small 1-3 thou cuts (which every one of these steps was).  I also had the RMP cut back further, but I think the biggest change was using the rounded tool.

Here's the part after making all of my roughing cuts to establish the form of the door:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3960.jpg)

Next, I blued it up with Dykem and took a file to it to remove the steps.  This is after some filing, but you can see, I’ve got a long way to go still.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3962.jpg)

After more file work and a lot of decreasing grits of sandpaper, here’s what it looks like.  I’m pretty pleased with that!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_3967.jpg)

Finally, before I took the mandrel and part out of the 4-jaw chuck, I cut the inset in the back of the door piece.  This will fit inside the smokebox to help hold it in place.  I did this with a parting blade that I’ve modified slightly to be a square ended grooving tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_3972.jpg)

With all the lathe work done, I removed the mandrel from the 4-jaw chuck and moved it over to the mill, and clamped the mandrel in the mill vise.  Note that I’ve carefully left the part on the mandrel.  That just makes it a LOT easier to hold.  To clock the part in on the mill, I used a gauge pin to find the center of the part and set the DRO to 0,0. Then, I switched to a smaller gauge pin that fit the outer mounting holes.  These holes define the horizontal center line of the door.  Since I’d found the center of the part I was able to move the gauge pin out the specified x distance to where one of the mounting holes should be, loosened the vise so I could rotate the part, and inserted the gauge pin in one of the mounting holes, then tightened down the vise again.  Even though the part was free to move in both x and y with the vise jaws loose, the fact that the gauge pin was held in precisely the correct x, y=0 spot guaranteed that the part was both centered AND horizontal in the mill when the vise was again clamped down.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-5-DSC_3976.jpg)

I used the DRO to find the opposite mounting hole by only moving the X-axis which proved that indeed, the part was centered and in line with the X-axis!  Yay!

Now I switched to a 1/8” end mill and used the DRO to cut two horizontal grooves for the faux hinges for the door. The hinges will eventually be silver soldered into these grooves.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209d-SmokeboxDoor-6-DSC_3980.jpg)

And that’s how far I got today.

I’ve still got a dozen or so holes to drill in the smokebox door, and about half of them will need to be taped before I move on to making the fake hinges.

Thanks for checking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 07, 2023, 12:13:07 AM
Wow - beauty!  That NISOT and the different tip on the tool (plus your setups and work) came out great!    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 07, 2023, 12:21:39 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

That door looks great Kim! well done.  :cheers:

And Monsieur Nisot's table obviously worked well!  :Lol:  PS is he still lecturing at the Sorbonne?  :naughty: :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 07, 2023, 12:49:36 AM
That's looking good Kim, nice work!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2023, 04:46:55 AM
Thanks Chiss, Jeff, and Dave!  :cheers:

:Lol: I had to go back and re-read what I wrote to figure out what NISOT was!  Ha! Yeah, I believe Monsieur Nisot has retired recently!  :ROFL:

Kim
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 07, 2023, 02:59:48 PM
That's going to be a beauty of a door! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2023, 04:47:51 PM
Thanks Ron!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: samc88 on May 07, 2023, 05:53:01 PM
Not been on here much lately but got to say absolutely amazing progress Kim! Its starting to look like a locomotive now
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 07, 2023, 06:18:53 PM
Thanks Sam!   :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 08, 2023, 03:38:59 PM
That came out great Kim….. :Love:


Very impressive Don!  Did you use normal turning tools to get it close, then finished with the graver, or did the graver do all the work from the cylinder?
Thanks Chris, I Did the most work with the lathe tool first to get it close then finished shaping it with the graver..

Thank you also CNR…..

Regards Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 08, 2023, 07:18:16 PM
Carrying on with the smokebox door; with the part still clocked in on the mill, I used the DRO to locate all the required holes – six holes for mounting the fake door latches, two holes for holding the fake door hinges, and three holes for mounting the railing that goes around the top of the smokebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209e-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3981.jpg)

Then I tapped the six holes for the fake door latches (the six holes around the circumference of the fake door).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209e-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3985.jpg)

And finally, add a countersink for the mounting screws in the front of the smokebox cover.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209e-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_3989.jpg)

A quick double-check to make sure I did everything, and I hadn’t – I still needed to put a short countersink in the center hole and tap that for 8-32.  So, I did that.

Finally, I took the unit over to the hearth and heated the part up to separate it from the mandrel.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209e-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_3993.jpg)

That’s about it for the main cover part of the smokebox door.  Now I’ve got the fake hinges and the fake door latches to make!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 08, 2023, 08:10:44 PM
Great looking door. My shop elves want it for a vault door to store their brass chips!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 08, 2023, 10:56:23 PM
Good luck with the fakery high precision metal replicas to fit on the door!   :Lol:

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2023, 10:51:53 PM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2023, 11:02:19 PM
Well, as is often the case with me, I think I’ve completed a part and plan to get started on the next part, only to find I’m not really done.  So it goes.

I tried the door in the smoke box and it doesn’t quite fit. Just a titch too big!  I was worried about this.  I tried to get it right before taking it off the mandrel, but the part that fits in the smoke box was not accessible on the mandrel.  So,  I did the best I could with my dial calipers (or guess-o-meters, as Blondihacks refers to them) and didn’t quite make it.

So, how to turn it down just a tad smaller?

The method I came up with was to make a little mandrel with an 8-36 thread on the end.  If you'll recall (which you have no reason to, it's my silly project!) the door has a center hole that is tapped 8-36.
So I made this little mandrel out of a little scrap of 1” CRS:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-1-DSC_3996.jpg)

Here it is with the door screwed on.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-2-DSC_3998.jpg)

Then I used a file to adjust the size down a tad, taking off just a bit at a time, then checking to see if it fit. I didn’t want to overshoot!  :o
But I eventually got there.  A nice close fit; you don’t have to pound to get it in, nor pry to get it out.  But it doesn’t wiggle around at all :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-3-DSC_4001.jpg)

Next, I needed to make the threaded holes in the door mounting lugs in the smoke box.  I used the door as a drill guide to find the right place for the holes.  I was sure to line things up very carefully before I marked the holes!  I used the clearance-sized drill bit to make a mark on the brass lugs to give me a starting place, then switched to the 3-48 drill size to make the actual hole.  Note that the vise is only being used as a flat base, it isn't tightened down on the smokebox.  This is a pretty substantial part so I felt comfortable holding it by hand in this situation.  And it wasn't hard to get things lined up for drilling that way either.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-4-DSC_4007.jpg)

Then I tapped the holes.  I’m just using the door as a guide for the tap.  The door itself isn’t being tapped!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-5-DSC_4005.jpg)

And here we are, the smoke box complete with the smokebox door blank.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/209F-SmokeboxDoor-6-DSC_4011.jpg)

It clearly still needs some parts before it’s done.  But you get the idea.  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 09, 2023, 11:04:23 PM
The loco's 'face' is coming alive!     :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2023, 11:18:35 PM
Yeah!  He's liable to go join your robot army with a face like that!
Or maybe go join Thomas the Tank Engine's gang?   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 10, 2023, 02:57:22 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Looking great Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2023, 11:55:52 PM
Thank you, Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2023, 12:06:42 AM
Chapter 25.3 –Door Hinges

For the past couple of days, I’ve been focused on the fake door hinges.

These were made from a short length of 1/8” x 1/4" cold rolled steel bar (1018).  There are two hinges, and I chose to make the pieces on the opposite ends of a larger piece.  This made it easier to hold the part for most of the operations.

First I made the hinge posts. These posts would be firmly attached to the front plate of the smokebox and give the door something to pivot against if, in fact, it ever pivoted. Which it won’t.
After squaring off the ends, I drilled a 0-80 tapping hole 5/64” from each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-01-DSC_4014.jpg)

Since the posts are only 1/16” wide, I used an end mill to shave it down to width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-02-DSC_4018.jpg)

At this point, I tapped the holes 0-80.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-03-DSC_4020.jpg)

Then, with a 0-80 screw as a pivot, I used the belt grinder to sand the top round and the edges to the appropriate width to match the rounded end per the plans.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-04-DSC_4024.jpg)

After completing both of the hinge posts I cut them off of the parent stock using the scroll saw.  I cut them longer than they need to be.  I’ll eventually file them to the correct length to match the hinge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-05-DSC_4027.jpg)

Now, on to the hinge bars.  These will be the part of the hinges that attach to the door (i.e. the fake door).  After squaring off the newly cut ends I used a 1/16” radius bit to round off the ends of the part. Both sides of both ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-06-DSC_4030.jpg)

Here’s the idea:  It will fit into the groove in the door that was milled before.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-07-DSC_4032.jpg)

Like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-08-DSC_4034.jpg)
It’s supposed to look like it’s welded to the smokebox door.  I thought the way Kozo did this was pretty cool!

With the ends rounded, I made the hinges 3/16” tall (remember, the stock started at 1/4" in this dimension.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-09-DSC_4037.jpg)

Then I drilled and tapped mounting holes for the hinges (0-80).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-10-DSC_4039.jpg)

Now, flipping the part on its side, I drilled the hinge pivot hole the appropriate distance from the end (flipped it over and did the other side too, of course).  These holes are NOT centered on the part.  They are closer to one side than the other. This is important!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-11-DSC_4042.jpg)

After cutting the two hinge pieces apart, I used my little rounding jig on the belt sander to round off the hinge end and taper the top (this is why the pivot holes were not drilled on center!)  The one in front is done (the top side is tapered) and the one next to the belt is in progress.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-12-DSC_4045.jpg)

With all the hinge parts complete, I now assembled them into the finished hinges using a 0-80 screw as the hinge pin.  Then used the belt sander (carefully!) and some files to bring the post to the correct height, flush with the bottom of the rest of the hinge.  The one on the left has had the post brought to size. The one on the right hasn’t been sanded to length yet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-13-DSC_4047.jpg)

Now, to test fit them in the door.  They look pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-14-DSC_4050.jpg)

And silver solder them in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-15-DSC_4052.jpg)

After a pickle and a little cleanup, here’s the current state of the smokebox door showing the newly added hinges.  It looks pretty good!  You can see a spot around the end of the top hinge that didn’t get a fillet, but that’s OK.  This is just ornamental.  And the hole is small enough that the paint will fill it and nobody will ever know.  There’s plenty of solder there to keep the hinge in place!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/210a-DoorHinges-16-DSC_4053.jpg)

You can see I got a little copper plating action going in my pickle bath. But I'm not worried about it.  It's all going to be painted anyway.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2023, 12:19:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Nice work on the hinge parts Kim, they look great on the door.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 12, 2023, 01:23:29 AM
Great hinges! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 12, 2023, 02:39:59 AM
Congratulations Kim. You're no longer unhinged!... :LittleDevil: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 12, 2023, 03:35:25 AM
 :Lol: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2023, 05:04:40 AM
Thanks Jeff, Chris, and Ron!  :cheers:
Congratulations Kim. You're no longer unhinged!... :LittleDevil: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
:ROFL:

Not sure that's actually the case...  But thanks for the kind thought! :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 14, 2023, 04:49:12 PM
So much detail even in the dummy hinges  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 15, 2023, 11:52:14 PM
So much detail even in the dummy hinges  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Thanks Roger!
Yes, Kozo includes lots of fun detail!  I do enjoy that!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 12:07:37 AM
Chapter 25.4 –Door Clamps

The next part is the Door Clamps.  These are real door clamps used to clamp a fake door closed. So they have a very easy job!

I chose to make these as a stack.  Cut the profile on a piece of bar, then slice it like bread to get my 6 parts.  Seemed like a good idea at the time anyway.

After much consideration, I decided to use a 5C spin-indexer as the main holding implement for this series of operations.  I used this rather than the rotary table because it was easier to find a way to hold the stock.  In the past, I’ve made a 1” mandrel for my Taig 3” four-jaw chuck and I could hold that with a 5C collet.  Seemed like a great idea at the time!

First, I set up the indexer on the mill table and tapped it in so it was square with the X-axis.  I used a 1/2" piece of steel stock for this op.  I checked it in both the Y and Z planes to verify that it tracked true with the X axis.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-01-DSC_4057.jpg)

With that done, I mounted the little 4-jaw chuck in place and proceeded to center up a length of 1/4" x 3/8” 1018 steel.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-02-DSC_4063.jpg)

Then I offset the stock 0.0546” (half the distance between the two radii I wanted).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-03-DSC_4066.jpg)

Next, I shaved off a little bit off either side to make the bar 5/32” wide. And this will, of course, be the diameter of the rounded ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-04-DSC_4069.jpg)

I chose to leave the mill on one side and do all these operations with side milling.  I have more accuracy in my X and Y Axes than I have in my quill Z Axis.  So I left the mill at the width of the end and proceeded to rotate the part in 5o increments around the shorter end (the one I’d offset toward if that makes sense).  Here I’m a little over half done.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-05-DSC_4076.jpg)

And now, I’ve completed a full 180 degrees.  This operation made the end round, and made it the correct length, all at once :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-06-DSC_4078.jpg)

Next, I offset the part the full distance between radii centers the opposite way (0.1094”). This way I ended up 0.0546” offset the opposite way from center (right?).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-07-DSC_4081.jpg)

And proceeded to do the same rounding operation for that side.  Now I have the basic outside shape of the clamps.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-08-DSC_4084.jpg)

Then I took a 1/8” end mill and made carefully calibrated grooves along the length of that bar.  Now you are actually seeing all six clamps here. All I have to do is slice them off!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-09-DSC_4087.jpg)

But first, I moved the chuck over to the lathe, leaving the part still centered on one of the ends, and drilled a 1-72 through hole all the way through the stack.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-10-DSC_4091.jpg)

Now for the most delicate part – cutting the individual clamps off the long (well, 1” long) spindly bar here.  I put a live center in place there while doing most of the cut with a 1/16” grooving tool.  Seemed like a safe thing to do.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-11-DSC_4093.jpg)

But this is where things went bad.  When I was really close to breaking through to the hole, I backed the live center out thinking it was a bad idea to cut off a part with the tail stock center in place. And I thought I could just REALLY carefully take the last few thou cut.  But no.  That was clearly a silly though.  As soon as I backed the center out it instantly bent the part all to whack.  :wallbang:    (Admit it, you all knew this would happen, didn't you?)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-12-DSC_4096.jpg)

And what is almost worse, I lost the little door clamp that was almost cut off.  It must have broken off and went flying somewhere.  I couldn’t find it.  I spent an inordinate amount of time looking but to no avail.  I’m sure I’ll come across it in a few years and say “Huh… what’s this? Oh, I remember this!”  But that day won’t come till after I’ve made a replacement for sure.

Anyway, I decided to see if I could salvage the other five.

I chose to proceed a different way.  I straightened up the part a bit then moved the whole thing back to the mill to use a slitting saw to separate the parts.  I should have started with this (obviously) but, well, I didn’t.

Here I’m about to slice the whole stack from the parent stock.  I decided that this would allow me to hold the part better and with less chance of things bending if I removed it from the parent stock first.  Interestingly, in this pic, you can see a bit of a twist right at the base of the stack of parts caused by my earlier mishap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-13-DSC_4103.jpg)

And here I’m cutting off each of the clamps using a 1/16” slitting saw. This should make them the exact correct size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-14-DSC_4107.jpg)

Here's the small flock of door clamps.  The one on the right was the bottom clamp and you can see the results of that twist – it made the hole not really round.  I was able to ream it out though, and it’s not really visible from the outside.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-15-DSC_4109.jpg)

And here we are with the door all clamped closed!  Well, mostly clamped closed – 5/6th of the way clamped closed at least.  Still have one more to make.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211a-DoorClamps-16-DSC_4113.jpg)

This whole thing took me several days to do.  Now I’m going to spend a few days doing it all again. Such is the life of a marginal machinist who keeps trying to learn!

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on May 16, 2023, 12:38:21 AM
Those little bits take four times longer to make, but they all add up to make the model look more realistic.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 16, 2023, 01:16:52 AM
Nice door clamps!  The one to replace will go quicker, don't  worry.   And marginal?  Nope!  Doing well and learning a lot!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 05:56:51 AM
Thanks Krypto and Chris!
Appreiate the vote of confidence.  I'm not feeling so bad about it now. But sometimes it just takes me a while to work up my optimism again :)

Those little bits take four times longer to make, but they all add up to make the model look more realistic.
Boy, don't they though?  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 16, 2023, 11:50:40 AM
In my book - you're are doing great on this build Kim  :ThumbsUp:
+ You got the guts to show what went wrong and why  :praise2:

And while just about no one else reach Chris & Elves speed .... you're making progress almost every day  :cheers:

+ I agree that we all need moral support from time to time  ;)  ;D

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 16, 2023, 03:02:22 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Good luck with clamps set 2! With tiny parts it often takes a couple of tries to get the method and order of ops dialed in. On this set, you should probably make at least 5 sets, 4 of them for the other Kozo locomotives I predict you will be making!  :Lol:  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 05:20:27 PM
Thanks Per and Jeff!  :cheers:

:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Good luck with clamps set 2! With tiny parts it often takes a couple of tries to get the method and order of ops dialed in. On this set, you should probably make at least 5 sets, 4 of them for the other Kozo locomotives I predict you will be making!  :Lol:  :naughty:
Yes, I'll definitely be making more than one!  If I'm going through all those ops, might as well have a spare or two.  Won't really take much longer!  ;)

As for future Kozo Locos... maybe...  very possibly...  but I think I'm going to be looking for a different project to separate them if so!  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rustychip on May 16, 2023, 10:14:42 PM
I have read your build log from the beginning, twice, I most likely would have given up on the boiler. that was quite the challenge. I give you kudos for your ability to keep moving forward. I even purchased Kozo's A3 book, great book by the way. I just don't want to start something I will never finish. As many others have said you are doing a great job. Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 10:32:43 PM
Thanks, Rusty!  (is that what you go by? Rusty?  Or do you prefer Mr. Chip?)

Yeah, the boiler gave me a run.  But what I don't have in ability I try to make up for in persistence.  :embarrassed:

I don't intend to give up.  I intend to complete this project!  But I've learned to never say never.  Who knows what will happen, right? If it quits being fun, I'll probably stop and find something else to do. But it's still fun. And I still get that endorphin rush every time I complete a part!  And that's pretty fun!  I mostly just enjoy learning and making things.  And this has been quite the learning experience for me!  ;D

If you're interested in making the loco, I say go for it!  If I can do it, anybody can!

Thanks again, Rusty.  (Er, uh, Mr. Chip?)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 10:35:40 PM
Today I finished up the door clamps.

I decided to make a stack of three clamps this time, using the same process as before (with minor tweaks for efficiency).  The second time through went fairly quickly compared to the first time, as you all knew it would.  And of the three clamps I started with, two survived to completion, which was plenty good enough.

I chose the best 6 out of 7 available clamps to use for the door. And here’s the final pic with the fake door ALL tightly clamped shut!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/211b-DoorClamps-1-DSC_4116.jpg)

Next will be the number plate for the front of the loco.  It will go right in the center of the smokebox door.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 16, 2023, 10:37:51 PM
Nice results Kim and it’s not the time it takes to build, it’s the enjoyment you get seeing it unfold and rise right before your very eyes a real sense of accomplishment. We done bud…..

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 16, 2023, 10:52:45 PM
Excellent!


And tomorrow morning you will walk into the shop, and see that missing clamp sitting there in the middle of the floor, sparkling in the light...   :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 11:07:47 PM
Nice results Kim and it’s not the time it takes to build, it’s the enjoyment you get seeing it unfold and rise right before your very eyes a real sense of accomplishment.We done bud…..

 :cheers:
Don
Isn't that the truth!  ;D

Thanks Don!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 16, 2023, 11:08:56 PM
Excellent!
Thanks Chris!  :cheers:

And tomorrow morning you will walk into the shop, and see that missing clamp sitting there in the middle of the floor, sparkling in the light...   :shrug:
Well, if I do, I'm liable to 'accidentally' kick it under the bench or something - just out of spite!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 17, 2023, 01:17:47 AM
Looking great Kim!
Looking forward to seeing how you make the number plate?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2023, 05:40:31 AM
Thanks Dave!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2023, 11:01:13 PM
Chapter 25.5 – Number Plate

The number plate was made from 1” 12L14 round rod.  It was a fairly basic turning exercise.  The only interesting move was the 45o taper.  But that was easily done with the compound slide.  The end was threaded 8-36 to match the threads in the middle of the smokebox door, and it was parted off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-1-DSC_4118.jpg)

Then it was flipped around, holding the threaded end in an appropriate 5C collet.  I faced the front end down to the specified 1/8” width for the disk.  Then proceeded to use a 1/2" center cutting end mill to bore in 0.040”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-2-DSC_4122.jpg)

Switching to a little boring bar I took the bore out to 27/32”, leaving just a little rim around the outside edge.  I was pleased with how this worked out!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-3-DSC_4125.jpg)

Here’s the number plate, minus the number.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-4-DSC_4128.jpg)

And mounted on the smokebox door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-5-DSC_4131.jpg)

The number will be cut from some thin sheet stock and will sit right in the center. I’ll be making that next.

Not sure what number to use.  Kozo uses “6” in his book.  I don’t know why, and I’m not sure what appropriate numbers would for this engine.  I may just go ahead and use 6 too.  I've done a little research for prototypical info official engine number but didn't like what I found.  I only found A3's with three-digit numbers. Number 914:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-6-prr914s.jpg)

And Number 749:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212a-NumberPlate-7-prr749s.jpg)

But I don’t want a 3-digit number.  I’m happy with a non-prototypical single-digit number.

Who knows. Maybe I’ll use 2.  I’ve always liked that number.  Not sure why.  I tell people that it’s because it’s the only even prime, but I think 2 was my favorite number even before I knew what prime numbers were.  So, who knows? :)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 17, 2023, 11:14:42 PM
If you are going to  saw out the number, may want to pick one that doesn't need to be  drilled for the opening like 4, 6,8,9,0 would need. Just a thought.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on May 17, 2023, 11:24:31 PM
Maybe Kozo was a Prisoner fan?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW-bFGzNMXw
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2023, 11:46:49 PM
If you are going to  saw out the number, may want to pick one that doesn't need to be  drilled for the opening like 4, 6,8,9,0 would need. Just a thought.

Good point.  Another vote in favor of "2".  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2023, 11:47:23 PM
Maybe Kozo was a Prisoner fan?  ;D

No doubt!  That would make sense!  :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 18, 2023, 01:28:06 AM
How many engines did you build prior to the A3? My little live steamer was given #3 because it was the third build after a pair of Elmer Verburg engines. Just another suggestion.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 18, 2023, 02:04:48 AM
Just food for thought Kim - as your number will not be too large, maybe it would be economical to order it from Shapeways or other 3D metal printing firm? they do brass, stainless, and other metals direct from your CAD file. I believe Chris Rueby has had metal parts done by Shapeways. I have a couple of friends who design metal jewelery and they have had gold and silver pieces done by Shapeways at reasonable cost. Not affiliated in any way with Shapeways, just mentioning it for awareness.

I recently have had issues with one of my keyboards, where the painted on characters on the A and S keys wore off. My solution was to 3D print A and S characters in PLA and CA glue them to the keycaps. They seem to be standing up to use nicely. A pic of this masterpiece is attached. (yes of course I could get a new keyboard at $15 or so but where's the triumph of technology over obstacles in that?  :Lol:)

Course I wouldn't recommend PLA printed numbers for a loco smokebox of course, you would probably get the Salvador Dali dripping object effect!  :Lol:  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 18, 2023, 05:30:52 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, Ron and Jeff!

I do like your A and S keys!  They really give your keyboard that personal look!  That's all the rage now.  People collect and sell novel keyboards and keys, you know?  And yours might just be a collector's item soon!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 18, 2023, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks Kim! Who knows - you might see it on Antiques Roadshow in a few years. The expert on the show will say "the artist probably did this in his 'rage against the machine phase'. We value it at $2.7 million". (or not)  :ROFL:  :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 18, 2023, 10:50:33 PM
As I was getting ready to cut the number, I realized that the way I want to finish the loco is to have the number and number plate be bright brass with a painted background.  And having a steel circle around a brass number is not the look I want.  So I spent some time redoing the number plate that I made yesterday, only from brass this time.  It went much faster the second time (as usual) but it still took some time.

With a nice shiny brass number plate completed, I then set out to make the number itself.  I decided on the number “2” for the uncompelling reasons I mentioned earlier.  But that’s what this is going to be.  Engine 2.

I started by printing an array of 2’s in the font I selected, with varying sizes.  After printing, I picked the size that looked most appropriate, cut it out, and used spray adhesive to attach it to some 0.040” brass stock (some sheet scrap left over from the tender).  Then I cut it out on the scroll saw:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212b-NumberPlate-1-DSC_4134.jpg)

After the rough cut out, I used the belt grinder like a poor man's die filer to smooth the outside of the number, at least where I could reach with it.  I turned the speed WAY down on the belt sander so it removed metal much more slowly than usual. This actually worked really well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212b-NumberPlate-3-DSC_4141.jpg)

And finally, I used a selection of tinny files on the inside portions of the “2” that I couldn’t reach with the belt grinder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212b-NumberPlate-4-DSC_4147.jpg)

And after a bit of buffing on some fine emery paper, here’s an extended family shot of the number plate parts.  Top is the old steel number plate, right is the new brass one (the black mark on it marks ‘bottom’ when it is screwed into the smokebox door), center is the brass “2” (of course), and on the far left is a sample of the pattern I printed.  I printed a whole sheet of various sizes, so had plenty to spare.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212b-NumberPlate-5-DSC_4149.jpg)

Next, I’ll silver solder the 2 onto the number plate.  But I can’t do that today because I can’t open my garage door.  We’re having the house painted this week and I’ve been instructed NOT to open the garage doors today.  So that will wait for another day.

Thanks for checking in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 19, 2023, 03:22:52 AM
The number and plate look excellent Kim! Nice job.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 19, 2023, 02:54:49 PM
+1 on the #2! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2023, 06:07:43 PM
Thanks Jeff and Ron!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on May 19, 2023, 07:16:41 PM
I have to say, you did a good job with the 2.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2023, 11:07:14 PM
Thank you Michael!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2023, 11:10:52 PM
Not a lot of progress today but a little is better than none!  The whole house painting thing kept distracting me.  But at least that should be completed soon.  It'll be great to have it done though!

I set up to solder the “2” in place on the number plate.  Here’s my setup using a nifty weighted hold-down pointy thing to hold the number in place.  I hoped this would work... hated to think what would happen if the number moved during soldering!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212c-NumberPlate-2-DSC_4156.jpg)

Here’s a close-up. I worked hard to get the 2 level and centered.  Remember that mark I’d put on the bottom of the number plate?  That’s what I was basing this whole setup on. Hope it was right!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212c-NumberPlate-1-DSC_4153.jpg)

After soldering and a bit of pickle and a cleanup, here’s the number plate in its final resting place:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212c-NumberPlate-3-DSC_4160.jpg)

I’m quite pleased with how it came out!  The solder spread well under the number and it seemed to stay where I put it.  And it even seems to be the right spot! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/212c-NumberPlate-4-DSC_4163.jpg)

What could be better than that?

Next up is the handrail around the smokebox door.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 20, 2023, 12:39:34 AM
Excellent! 


Two good Two believe? Nope!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 20, 2023, 12:51:57 AM
Two nice!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on May 20, 2023, 01:46:26 AM
Looks great now and will look more awesome with paint!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2023, 05:40:54 AM
Thanks, Krypto, Chris, and Ron, you guys are two much!  :ROFL:

Yeah, that number is a really satisfying detail!  Way more satisfying than I had given it credit for  ;D

Kim




Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: raveney on May 20, 2023, 12:16:16 PM
Learning a great bit watching this build. Thank you for posting so much detail

Could you please tell us what type of belt sander you have that has variable speed control?
Also what type of blade is the scroll saw using that cuts the thin brass?
 :happyreader:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2023, 05:42:44 PM
Learning a great bit watching this build. Thank you for posting so much detail
Thanks!  :cheers:
I'm really enjoying this build.  It has so many interesting new challenges for me.  I'm having a blast with it!

LearningCould you please tell us what type of belt sander you have that has variable speed control?

The belt sander/grinder is a 2"x72" built from plans I got from Jeremy Schmidt.  He sells his plans on Etsy for a nominal fee (I think it was $30). The plans are excellent and well worth the money.   Here's a link to his plans (https://www.etsy.com/listing/969297008/inch-plans-gen-2-tilting-belt-grinder?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-craft_supplies_and_tools-patterns_and_how_to-patterns_and_blueprints&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQjw1tGUBhDXARIsAIJx01kHPdZUQnLLOOiWHv8PUNIyg3ckI-PkMpU8XhiBI2YVOD75ORuG4BcaAtLxEALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_12569400892_126353650264_507394781188_pla-322726483858_c__969297008_12768591&utm_custom2=12569400892&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1tGUBhDXARIsAIJx01kHPdZUQnLLOOiWHv8PUNIyg3ckI-PkMpU8XhiBI2YVOD75ORuG4BcaAtLxEALw_wcB), and a link to his build video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dxCAHU_xpY) Which is also really great.

Also what type of blade is the scroll saw using that cuts the thin brass?
I'm using #2 blades from Vallorbe.  Here's the link I used to purchase (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YZ58DM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) them many years ago.  Looks like they don't have them in stock right now, but I'm sure someone does. I ordered a gross of them because they do break with some regularity.  Didn't break while I was sawing the "2" out, but if I'm making a long cut I'll invariably go through a bade or two.

Hopefully, that gives you a place to start looking at least.
Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Bearcar1 on May 20, 2023, 11:23:21 PM
Good Heavens Kim... I am sorry for being late for the party. I have seen this thread off and on for a while now and I just did go back to the beginning and have followed your progress. WoW! Thank you so much for sharing... I have just acquired Kozos book from Camden Books and it is a treat as well as following your thread.... VERY NICE indeed! I will be paying closer attention to your progress...


BC1
Jim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2023, 11:42:13 PM
Thanks Jim!   :cheers:
Yes, Kozo's book is a great resource for sure!  An excellent book to read whether or not you ever make the A3!  :ThumbsUp: :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 20, 2023, 11:47:17 PM
Chapter 25.6 – Handrail Brackets

Today I started on the Handrail Brackets.  These will fit on the smokebox door to hold the semi-circular handrail that goes around the top of the door.

I mostly did planning today – thinking about the order of operations and drawing out the dimensions I’ll use for dialing in the DRO and such.

One of the things I decided during this planning was that I wanted to use a form tool to make the ball end on the handrail brackets.  Sure, they can be formed using a file, as Kozo suggests, but in addition to the three brackets like this needed for the smokebox door, there are another six that will be needed soon for the handrails on either side of the boiler.  So I’m going to try making a form tool for this to make their creation easier and hopefully make them more uniform. Or that’s my theory, at least! :)

So today, I made the form tool.
Starting with ~3.5” of 3/8” W-1 tool steel rod I milled off ~0.030” on two sides (this will help make it sit flat in the tool holder).  I then made a flat on one end wide enough for the form too, and, with it resting on a stack of angle blocks (making 7o) I angled the front part of the tool for clearance.  And now, all the operations I do here will be at the clearance angle (at least in one direction).

The ball needs to be 3/16” in diameter.  I was going to use a 3/16” end mill to make this hole but as it turns out, I don’t have one of those!  I must have busted my 3/16 EM at some point and didn’t remember to get a replacement.  So, now I’ve got a replacement on order, but to make progress, I used a 1/8” end mill to make a flat, then center spotted for a 3/16” drill:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213a-HandrailBrackets-1-DSC_4168.jpg)

Here’s after drilling.  Note the part is still mounted at 7o in the vise.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213a-HandrailBrackets-2-DSC_4171.jpg)

Switching back to the 1/8” end mill, I carved off the top of the tool leaving just over half of the hole exposed.  I also milled the top side down to the ‘neck’ diameter of the handrail bracket.  I did a tad more milling to straighten out the long edge so it was the same width as the 3/16” ball.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213a-HandrailBrackets-3-DSC_4174.jpg)

With the major shaping done, I took it to the grinder and hand ground a little more relief in a few of the sides being careful not to touch the top edge of the tool and change its shape.  Then I heat-treated and tempered the form tool.

Here’s the final form tool, ready for use (eventually).  Huh… looks like I need to do a little deburring there before I use that tool.  But it looks like it should do the job!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213a-HandrailBrackets-4-DSC_4176.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 21, 2023, 12:50:21 AM
Very interested to see  how it works out. Will you drill the hole for the rail before or after forming the ball?   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 21, 2023, 01:07:24 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 21, 2023, 06:30:22 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Very interested to see how it works out.
Me too!   :embarassed:

Will you drill the hole for the rail before or after forming the ball?   :popcorn:
My current plan is to drill the hole before making the ball.

If that doesn't work out, then my plan will change!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 24, 2023, 11:26:09 PM
Today I made some progress on the smokebox door handrail brackets.

Having made the form tool I was ready to cut some brackets.

They were shaped from 1/4" 303 stainless steel rod.  I turned the outer diameter down to 0.200” then made a 0.099” section which was then threaded 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-1-DSC_4179.jpg)

And cut off to the correct length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-2-DSC_4182.jpg)

Then I made two more:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-3-DSC_4184.jpg)

To drill the cross hole for the handrail brackets I followed Kozo’s advice and made a little jig from a scrap block of steel.  I drilled a 0.200” hole in one end. This will be to hold the little brackets for drilling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-4-DSC_4188.jpg)

But how do I determine the correct place for the cross hole?  I did this by measuring the part.  I stuck one of the parts in the hole and measured how far the shoulder stuck out, and how wide the jig block was.  That way I could calculate how far down the top of the handrail part was.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-5-DSC_4191.jpg)

And from there, I drilled a 3/32” hole through the jig to act as the guide.

Here I’m drilling a cross hole in one of the handrail brackets.   In one of them, the hole goes all the way through.  In the other two, it’s a blind hole, 1/8” deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-6-DSC_4194.jpg)

Now, Kozo specifies 0.100” diameter rod for the handrail, but as I did for the tender, I’m changing this to 3/32”, which is 0.09375”.  While not exactly 0.100”, it’s pretty close. And another upside is that it is obtainable.  0.100” rod just doesn’t seem to be available in the US.  Plus, it will match the handrail of the tender! :)

Here’s all three of them up to this point.  The one on the right is the one drilled all the way through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-7-DSC_4196.jpg)

Next, I made a mandrel from 1/4" steel rod with a 3-48 threaded hole to receive the handrail posts.  With one screwed into that mandrel, I started trying to use the form tool to make the ball shape on the end.

While it was ‘kinda’ working, it really wasn’t doing a good job.  This picture makes it look better than it really was.  I was having a hard time getting it to cut.  And if it didn’t cut, I was afraid I was hardening the 303.  Not good.  And what’s worse, as the tool engaged more fully with the part I could see it starting to deflect back.  This wasn’t good at all.  So I stopped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213b-HandrailBrackets-8-DSC_4199.jpg)

I’m going to take a step back and replan the next few steps.  Most likely I’ll be using the ‘file it round’ method that I was hoping to avoid with the form tool.  But I just don’t think the form tool will work in this situation.  The lathe certainly has the ergs to do it, but I don’t think the 3-48 attachment to the mandrel will cut it though.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 24, 2023, 11:47:13 PM
Hi Kim

You made the cutter from tool steel, why didn't you go ahead and heat treat it? If you did, and then stoned the top surface to a keen edge it should cut good.
I'm betting that if you looked at it carefully under magnification you would find that it is not sharp.

Nice work on the smokebox door assembly, everything is looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 05:49:58 AM
You made the cutter from tool steel, why didn't you go ahead and heat treat it? If you did, and then stoned the top surface to a keen edge it should cut good.
I'm betting that if you looked at it carefully under magnification you would find that it is not sharp.
Thanks Dave!

Yes, I did make it from tool steel, and I did heat treat it.  I even stoned the top surface and got rid of those burrs that could be seen in the original photo.  But it just didn't want to cut very well.  I did cut, but as more of the shape contacted the part it got harder and harder to move the tool in and I could see the part deflecting away from the tool.

I even set it on center as carefully as I could. Maybe I should re-check that.

The stainless just seems harder to turn than I had previously given it credit for.

Do you think that a form tool like this should work on something this small?  It starts at 0.200" dia and should end up at 3/16" dia.

You may be right.  I may not have gotten the tool as sharp as I should, or as it needs to be.  Maybe I'm unclear on how to do that better.  Maybe I'll try to sharpen it and give it another go before I jettison the whole idea.

Thanks for your input, Dave. Much appreciated!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on May 25, 2023, 09:02:25 AM
Try feeding the form tool along the Z axis to round the top half.  Then a smaller tool can cut the bottom fraction.  You don't need a full-profile tool to cut a circle,  Quarter circle and several tool positions.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 25, 2023, 01:24:11 PM
Could  the parts be brass? Lots easier to  cut, if they willbe painted black anyway.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on May 25, 2023, 01:46:57 PM
It will be difficult to keep them all looking the same without a form tool and it would be interesting to see if this tool works with brass as Crueby suggested.

I know guys like Clickspring make forming parts by hand with files, gravers and such look easy, but every time I try it they look like crap.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 04:58:11 PM
Try feeding the form tool along the Z axis to round the top half.  Then a smaller tool can cut the bottom fraction.  You don't need a full-profile tool to cut a circle,  Quarter circle and several tool positions.

That's an interesting thought - two tools rather than one....  :thinking:

Thanks Kvom,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 05:00:36 PM
Could  the parts be brass? Lots easier to  cut, if they willbe painted black anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion, Chris.
This is a good idea. Unfortunately, these parts won't be painted. The handrails and stands are left bright and brass wouldn't match the tender.
Kim
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 05:01:59 PM
It will be difficult to keep them all looking the same without a form tool and it would be interesting to see if this tool works with brass as Crueby suggested.

I know guys like Clickspring make forming parts by hand with files, gravers and such look easy, but every time I try it they look like crap.
Yes, that was my worry also.  We'll see how I proceed.  I likely won't get out to the shop today.  Domestic duties are the order of the day.  But maybe tomorrow...

Gives me another day to consider options.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on May 25, 2023, 05:53:09 PM
Hello Kim,

I was once given a tool to turn 4 mm balls on the lathe.
It consists of the HSS steel named by us.
This works very well. Here are some pictures of the geometry.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 25, 2023, 06:50:54 PM
Hi Kim, forces on the stock can be very high when using form tools. Couple of things I have found help with shapes like you are making - relieve as much stock as you can before using the form tool, and take the lightest possible cuts with the form tool. A 90 deg point chamfer tool can easily knock corners off and dig out the stock between ball and base, to rough out the contour. The second thing is to start with longer stock and leave a nub past the ball at the tailstock end with a centredrill hole for use with a tailstock centre. By using a tailstock centre for the roughing and form tool work, leaving a small diameter of stock between ball and tailstock support, forces are spread between the support and the work, reducing the likelihood of a bend / break / launch event. It does waste a bit of stock, and means sawing off the waste end and filing the end of the ball, but overall it will make like easier. If you get all the handrail supports you need without any breakages or incidents, you are better off than you would be if you had to use more stock and do all the ops to completely remake a bent or broken one.

On form tools, I usually try to make them narrower than the feature to reduce the forces. For different balls and semi spherical shapes I have made the tools about 60-70 degrees of the ball curvature, not 150-160 degrees, and 1 made 1 left tool and a right tool. Two tools, with the ball cut same distance from the end and centres at same distance to the side means you can make one part of the ball with tool 1, making note of the feed depth. Then change to tool 2 for the other half without moving the carriage along the bed, and feed to same depth as tool 1. If you didn't move anything there should be no mismatch line or a very small mismatch line on the ball. Just food for thought.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 10:19:57 PM
Thanks Michael!

That looks pretty similar to what I have here.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's the tool geometry that's the limiting factor here.  I think it's the little 0.099" connecting pin.  This becomes more clear after my next post (the one I'm about to make :)).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 25, 2023, 10:23:21 PM
Well, turns out I did get a little shop time today! So I started by inspecting the form tool to see if resharpening might indeed help.  As it turns out, yes, I thought it might!  There had clearly been some rubbing happening on the front part of the tool where it sticks out – I now realize I cut that straight with NO relief.  So I took it to the grinder and made some relief there, and made sure I had relief in all the other awkward places being very careful not to change the actual tool profile (much anyway).  Then I repositioned things so I could grind nice flat across the top of the tool to make sure it was very sharp!

After this, I used a fine diamond stone to clean it up and put a nice hone on it.

Then I mounted it back in the lathe, verified the center height, and gave it a try.

I was initially optimistic, I could see little shavings coming off where the tool was touching.  But then I heard a thunk and the part stopped turning. The chuck and mandrel were still turning, but the part wasn’t. :(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213c-HandrailBrackets-1-DSC_4203.jpg)

Guess it was just a little much for that 3-48 threaded portion to handle.  I’d considered ways to try and do the form cutting while still on the parent stock, but then I couldn’t figure out how to hold it to turn down the threaded portion.

So now I’m thinking on how to go about this again.  I may do a little step-off table to approximate the sphere then just use files & sandpaper to clean it up.  I’ve done this on a large number of parts that had to be similar and it worked out pretty well.  I turned 28 identical cannons for a model ship one time!  Now that was an interesting exercise in wishing I had a CNC lathe! :)

I’ll try another approach tomorrow.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 26, 2023, 08:06:39 AM
Hi Kim

I have used this method. They can be held in a collet, drilled and tapped etc. Then silver soldered on

(https://i.imgur.com/i3wF3dJ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/frtUMfP.jpg)

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Zephyrin on May 26, 2023, 08:07:40 AM
I did my own handrail supports for a gauge 1 loco exactly as you proceed, but from a 3 mm brass rod, much softer as stainless steel !
the form tool clearance can be easily made with these small coned diamond tool bits for the Dremel. It seemed that the tool required front and side (peripheral ?)clearance to prevent the head from being ripped off at the end of the cut! 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ShVffCBoyKH7R5D29

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 26, 2023, 09:58:12 AM
I think that I would start with the 'New Tool' you just finished and use it as the first opperation, followed by drilling (Centredrill/Endmill), threading and then the rest of the finishing details.
I know that this requires that you change back and forth between the Lathe and the Mill.
In the Mill, I would use a Collet holder + and Endstop, to ensure placing the holes @ the same distance from the Top.

Sorry for not commenting much (here and elsewhere) but I do enjoy your Build more and more Kim  :praise2:     :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on May 26, 2023, 10:03:58 AM
Hi Kim

Form tools can be quite tricky to work with...
Why dont you machine the ball first, second the threaded side and in the end the section between ball head and threads?
This way you have the part well supported for the operation with the highest cutting forces.

You could even split the form tool into two separate tools, one for the left part of the ball and one for the right part if it still does not work.

A verd big influnce is also material choice - is that free cutting steel you are using? Regular mild steel really tends to climb on a tool if the rigidity is too small for a cut.

Good luck on your next try 😉

Cheers Florian


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 26, 2023, 06:13:14 PM
Thanks Rich, Zephyrin, Per, and Florian,
Lots of really good creative ideas.  Great food for thought as I consider how to move forward on this.

I think I may give what Per and Florian suggest here a try.  I may see if I can use my form tool on the stainless rod first, and see if it will even cut the shape.   If it does, then I will come up with an order of ops that will allow me to machine the rest of the part AFTER the ball is formed.

BTW, Florian, I'm using 303 Stainless for these parts.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 26, 2023, 11:12:28 PM
Hi Kim

Sorry I missed the part where you said that you heat treated the tool, I thought that I had read through your post carefully but I guess not careful enough. :facepalm:
I was thinking along the same lines as Florian and Per, but wasn't able to get a post sent last night. It has been a busy couple of days.

Attached is a photo of little form tool that I made to machine the detail on the spreader bars of a PMR arbor press stand, the stock is 1/8" in diameter. Thought you might enjoy seeing it.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2023, 04:57:31 AM
Thanks Dave!  That's pretty nice looking.

I think I've got it to work now, thanks to everyone's help! (spoiler alert)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2023, 05:11:07 AM
So first thing today, I did a quick test just to see if the form tool could cut without digging in too badly. I tried it on the end of the 1/4” stock and it seemed to work fine.  I didn’t go all the way, just got it cutting some to prove to myself that it was possible.

Then I took the end of the rod down to 0.200" for the largest diameter, then 3/16” for the ball end part of the bracket.  I was going to try forming the part in the other direction this time so I had more meat there while using the form tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-1-DSC_4205.jpg)

Now, to apply the form tool to the end where I want the ball.  However, I didn't get very far with the form tool before this happened.  It is actually just barely hanging there – it bent and snapped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-2-DSC_4209.jpg)

I decided to give it one more try before I gave up on the form tool. I wanted to try with the bare minimum of stock sticking out of the collet (rather than almost 1” as above).  This actually worked!  :cartwheel: I was running the lathe at 480 RPM and that seemed to do well.  I advanced the form tool VERY slowly, but it seemed to work just fine.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-3-DSC_4212.jpg)

With the ball formed, I pulled out the rest of the required length for the 3-48 stud, turned the top part down to 3/16” to the base, and 0.200” for the rest of the length.  I also put a quick mark in to indicate the bottom of the base though I don’t think I’ll do that for the rest of them.  I thought it would help me as a registration mark, but I didn't end up needing it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-4-DSC_4215.jpg)

Then I changed to a 3/16” collet and put the ball end in the collet all the way up to the base ridge.  I hoped that the ball plus the rest of the 3/16” section would provide enough to hold the part firmly, and it certainly seemed to.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-5-DSC_4217.jpg)

Held in this orientation, I turned the stud down to 0.099” and cut the 3-48 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-6-DSC_4223.jpg)

Now, going back to the 3-48 mandrel that I’d made previously, I set the compound slide to 6 degrees, and using a round-nosed tool I tapered the stand.  I had to use a little file to get the top edge of the taper right next to the ball, but this seemed to work pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-7-DSC_4226.jpg)

And here are all my attempts at the handrail bracket. The three on the left are the blanks for my original process that I have now abandoned. The top right is the one that broke, the next one down on the right I broke today, and the bottom one I’m claiming is a victory!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213d-HandrailBrackets-8-DSC_4228.jpg)

In this close up I can see that I need a little more file work at the base of the bracket, but it looks pretty good.  And I still need to drill the hole. But I’ve got a plan for that :)

I think this will work. Just have to make two more of them!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 27, 2023, 08:06:57 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Florian Eberhard on May 27, 2023, 08:31:26 AM
Hey Kim

Very Nice!

Now for drilling the balls, i found it useful to mill a very tiny flat on top of the ball - this shows the center of the ball pretty well.

Florian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 27, 2023, 12:01:09 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

The bottom one's looking great Kim. Well done!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 27, 2023, 01:00:48 PM
Good to see that you 'Cracked this one too' found the solution  :ThumbsUp:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 27, 2023, 01:55:03 PM
Excellent result! 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 27, 2023, 03:30:09 PM
Nice job of working out the process, Kim! The (almost) finished stanchion looks great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

You know, when taking a cut with a sharp tool and everything is going peachy, is just seems so effortless. It's only when things go wrong that I'm reminded how high the actual forces at play can be.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 28, 2023, 01:20:54 AM
Thanks everyone!   :cheers:

Yes, it's easy to forget how much force is required to shear metal from metal!

Florian, I'm considering options on drilling.  I have thought about using the jig like I did the first time around, but making it a stepped hole; 0.200" for the first bit and 3/16" for the last part where the ball is though I worry about getting the hole lined up with the center of the ball.  When I did the hole first I could adjust the location of the ball slightly. But in this order, the hole has to line up correctly, so I'm leaning toward doing each part individually by making a flat spot on the ball and then using that to set the location of the hole.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on May 28, 2023, 08:08:35 AM
Those stanchions are proving quite a challenge however it looks like you have a solution  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2023, 10:39:03 PM
Thanks Roger!
Once I honed in on the correct order of operations it wasn't so bad! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2023, 10:41:21 PM
To finish up the handrail brackets I made two more of them using my latest greatest process which worked like a charm.

Then I moved the little threaded mandrel over to the mill and centered things on the round knob.  I did this by centering on the 1/4" mandrel for the Y-axis setting. And for the X-axis, I touched off the end of the mandrel and measured out from that the specified amount. That seemed to get me as close to center as I could have done visually (probably closer, truth be told).

Then I used a 1/8” end mill and shaved a few thou off the top of the ball to make a flat spot to start the drill.  And used a center drill to put a center mark in the right spot:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213e-HandrailBrackets-1-DSC_4235.jpg)

Finally, I drilled the hole for the handrail, remembering that two of them were blind holes and one was a through hole.  I used a #41 drill for this which is a few thou over the 3/32” size of the handrail.  I was afraid that a curved handrail wouldn’t fit through a tight-fitting hole very well since the holes are straight, not curved. Haven’t figured out how to drill a curved hole yet.  I’ll have to see if I can pick up that skill! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213e-HandrailBrackets-2-DSC_4238.jpg)

Here are the three handrail brackets, finally completed!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/213e-HandrailBrackets-3-DSC_4241.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 29, 2023, 10:45:28 PM
Chapter 25.7 – Handrail

Next up was the handrail itself.

As I mentioned earlier, Kozo specifies 0.100” as the diameter of the rail.  But I’ve been using 3/32” 303 stainless instead (which is 0.09375”).

I started by taking a length of 3/32” rod and bending it around a 3” mandrel. It sprang back quite a bit.  So I annealed the stainless and tried again, but it still sprung out a lot. So I got a slightly smaller diameter mandrel to use (2.75”) and tried tightening the radius some.  That helped, though I should have probably tried 2.5” and that would have probably been better.  Regardless, I made this work.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-1-DSC_4244.jpg)

After cutting off the tip end of the rod – the part that didn’t really get curved – I fit it in its place using two of the standoffs and marked the location where it should be cut.  I marked it a bit long for the initial cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-2-DSC_4246.jpg)

I cut the rod with bolt cutters and used the belt sander to clean up the end.  Then I fit it in place and checked the length.  I did several iterations of sanding a bit off the end before I had it the right length.  I wanted to sneak up on it carefully so I didn’t get it too short.  But in the end, it fits and looks pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-3-DSC_4249.jpg)

Here’s the back of the smokebox door. The three nuts are what’s holding the handrail brackets in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-4-DSC_4254.jpg)

And here’s the completed smokebox door, in place, on the smokebox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-5-DSC_4257.jpg)

Didn’t turn out half bad!  I’m pretty pleased!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-6-DSC_4260.jpg)

Thanks for following along and helping me out!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on May 29, 2023, 10:59:28 PM
The railing and stanchions look great Kim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I did a double take when I saw the big bar of free cutting steel, after reading that you were going to make the railing 3/32" diameter - I thought "it's gonna take a while to turn that down to 3/32"!"  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on May 29, 2023, 11:16:12 PM
Rail parts came out great!   Do the rail ends get soldered?  And are the slotted clamp screws going to be swapped with stud and nuts?  Looking forward to  seeing  what's  next. Wheres that popcorn bowl...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on May 29, 2023, 11:32:14 PM
That was a very interesting process just to make those little parts!  Definitely some handy tricks learned one can use on other parts.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on May 30, 2023, 12:25:20 AM
Lookin' good Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on May 30, 2023, 12:37:07 AM
Beautiful Kim!
That turned out great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on May 30, 2023, 02:27:07 AM
Great results Kim….

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on May 30, 2023, 07:41:39 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 30, 2023, 06:43:39 PM
Thanks everyone!  :cheers:

I did a double take when I saw the big bar of free cutting steel, after reading that you were going to make the railing 3/32" diameter - I thought "it's gonna take a while to turn that down to 3/32"!"  :Lol:  :cheers:
Yeah, that would be quite an exercise in turning!  :Lol:

Do the rail ends get soldered?
No, doesn't show that in the instructions. But maybe I should.  It would make disassembly and reassembly easier.  Though I'd have to do it 'in place' on the door to hold everything in the correct alignment...   :thinking:

And are the slotted clamp screws going to be swapped with stud and nuts?
No plans to.  This is what Kozo shows for the clamp screws.  I don't know how prototypical it is though...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 30, 2023, 11:07:57 PM
Great to see them in place Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Per           :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on May 31, 2023, 03:43:03 PM

And are the slotted clamp screws going to be swapped with stud and nuts?
No plans to.  This is what Kozo shows for the clamp screws.  I don't know how prototypical it is though...


It's hard to be certain from this picture, since it's so small, but it looks like the smokebox door is not, in fact, round - but has protrusions through which the clamping bolts are, presumably bolted.

(https://arrts-arrchives.com/images3/cish3f.jpg)

On the other hand, this slightly less small photo (which is the same engine, but later & maybe after a refit) seems to have a round door, but still "bolted through" rather than clamped:

(https://arrts-arrchives.com/images3/CISH03-1M.jpg)

Source: https://arrts-arrchives.com/sthosp3.html
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on May 31, 2023, 04:37:43 PM
I'm thinking that maybe the poor engine had a boo-boo between the first and the second pictures.  In the first picture the end of the smokebox appears to be a one piece casting, or maybe a forging?

Judging from the rivets in the second picture, the end of the smokebox seems to be fabricated from several pieces.  Maybe somebody got a little too close to something big and hard? 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on May 31, 2023, 06:24:12 PM
Nice pictures, Ade!  I hadn't seen those before.

I did a little more internet looking and came up with this one (again, not very high-res):
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-BO_0_4_0_317_frbw.jpg)

And if you zoom in on the smokebox door (even WORSE resolution) it looks like these are clamps holding the door closed and they MIGHT be being retained with studs & nuts.  Hard to tell, but the closest clamp, just above the center, certainly looks like a stud.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/214a-Handrail-BO_0_4_0_317_frbw_-_Zoom.jpg)

Another thing I noticed is that the handrail on the smokebox is around the lower part of the door rather than the upper part as Kozo puts it.  This makes sense as the place where you're walking and would need a handrail is along the bottom there, not around the top.  Hmm...

Well, I'm certainly not going to change it!  I'm happy to follow along with the plans in Kozo's book.

Interesting information though!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 31, 2023, 06:44:21 PM
The low number has the Rail up High and the High number has the Rail down Low ....

Maybe it startet out up High and experience showed that it was much more needed down Low - like you say Kim - to avoid burns and to Hold on to  :noidea:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on May 31, 2023, 07:30:55 PM
Number 317 is an A5. Number 3 is an A3.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: glinscott on May 31, 2023, 08:46:01 PM
I wanted to say thank you for the amazing build log, and congratulations on your build so far - it really looks incredible.  Really appreciate you putting together a clear BOM as well, that's also been a huge help (although I've only purchased the wheels so far - that was already confusing enough for a beginner :).

This thread will almost certainly serve as the definitive reference on building the A3 - really appreciate you including all the troubleshooting details and how you made your decisions as well.  Looking forward to reading each new section as I get there in the book!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 01, 2023, 05:41:17 AM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:


Number 317 is an A5. Number 3 is an A3.

Gene
Thanks Gene!

Guess you can't believe everything Google tells you, eh?  I should have realized that was why I hadn't see this one before in my A3 searches. I'll have to check on the real A3 photos I've seen...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 01, 2023, 05:44:45 AM
I wanted to say thank you for the amazing build log, and congratulations on your build so far - it really looks incredible.  Really appreciate you putting together a clear BOM as well, that's also been a huge help (although I've only purchased the wheels so far - that was already confusing enough for a beginner :).

This thread will almost certainly serve as the definitive reference on building the A3 - really appreciate you including all the troubleshooting details and how you made your decisions as well.  Looking forward to reading each new section as I get there in the book!
Thank you for the kind words!  I've learned so much doing this build and received so much help from everyone on this forum.    I can be fairly confident that any valuable information you learn from my build log was provided by the generous here on MEM!

And I hope you find the BOM of value.  I have updated it a couple of times and need to do another update for the mistakes I've found in the smoke box section of the BOM.  Just a few, but I will continue to update it over time.  So check back from time to time :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: JRP52 on June 01, 2023, 02:17:57 PM
I've been checking the BOM for updates - they do come in handy!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 01, 2023, 10:50:08 PM
Chapter 25.8 – Stack

The next item on the smokebox is the smoke stack!  We’re getting to some pretty defining things in a locomotive!

The stack is made in three pieces – one piece will be the base or the saddle. The next piece will be the smoke stack proper, and the third piece is a collar that fits on the stack inside of the smokebox to hold the stack in place.

I will be starting on the stack base today.  But one of the operations will require a 9/32” radius cove to be turned on the part.  I originally thought I could use a 9/16” ball end mill in a tool holder on the lathe to make this shape, but once I actually looked at the end mill, I realized the cutting edge was pointing the wrong direction for what I needed.  If I’d been forming the shape on the left side of the tool I’d have been in good shape. But the way I’m doing it, it has to be on the right side of the tool.  That’s just the wrong side of a right-handed end mill!  So, I decided to make a 9/16” button and hold it in my button holder that I used for making gear cutters a la Ivan Law.  I thought this was a pretty clever idea.

To make the 9/16” button I used 3/4" W-1 tool steel and formed the basic shape.  The 3/16” stud will be to fit in the hole on the button holder.  The bigger part is the 9/16” button, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-1-DSC_4262.jpg)

Here’s how it’s going to sit in the button tool holder.  Note that the way Ivan Law has you make the tool holder puts the button at a 7o angle to provide clearance on the front side of the button, so I will need to cut the top flat when it’s held at that angle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-2-DSC_4266.jpg)

Here was my first attempt at cutting the button flat on top.  I used red Loctite to hold the button in place (which is what you do while using the button for turning).  I was taking very shallow passes which worked fine for the first few, but once it started biting in much, this is what happened!  The button spun in circles!  Made a neat pattern, but not what I really wanted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-3-DSC_4269.jpg)

This should have worked and probably would have, but I didn’t wait long enough for the Loctite to cure. When I pulled the button out, that was very clear.  Ah well. So I just did it using a collet block, which is what I probably should have done the first time around.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-4-DSC_4272.jpg)

I heat-treated the button and tempered it.  Sorry, no pics of that.  I had to heat treat it twice because I got overly aggressive in my tempering.  :facepalm: But I think I finally got there.  :embarassed:

Since I only need half the tool to cut the profile, I left that step there at just past halfway. I thought it would be helpful in lining up the tool button on the holder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-5-DSC_4275.jpg)

Turns out it was very helpful! 😊
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-6-DSC_4278.jpg)

Also, since the 9/16” button is actually tilted by 7 degrees, it won’t describe a perfect quarter circle.  It will be slightly elliptical.  But it will be ever so slightly - only off by about 0.004".  I decided that it was close enough.  I’ll be doing a bunch of filing work around there anyway. This will just help get the shape close to start with.

With the Loctite curing on the button tool, I started work on the stack base.  I making the stack out of 303 stainless steel.  This is a 3” length of 1 5/8” diameter 303.  I turned it down to the specified outer diameter and started drilling the hole where the smoke stack will go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215a-Stack-7-DSC_4281.jpg)

I’m going to step drill it up as far as I can then start boring it out to the required ~7/8”.

But this is all the farther I got today.  The rest of the drilling and boring will have to take place next time.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 02, 2023, 03:44:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 05, 2023, 11:17:10 PM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 05, 2023, 11:31:42 PM
It’s been a few days since I made an update on my build.  That’s because, at the end of last week, I and everyone in my house came down with Covid-19.  We went 38 months without getting it, but there you go.  It’s like they say, there are two groups of people in this world, those who have had Covid, and those who are going to get it.  I’m now in the former camp.  Or at least, I’m recovering from it.  Still have aches and pains all over and food tastes weird (even water tastes bad, if you can believe it!), but I was feeling well enough to venture out into the shop today, after sitting around in the house for the past 4-5 days doing nothing (and feeling like doing even less!).  But there you have it.  Enough about that, eh?


I’d just finished up the button tool and turned down a chunk of stainless to start on the base for the stack.  I had just started to drill the center hole for boring.  But as I started today, I thought better of that.  I decided that my little button tool was going to require a lot of force to cut that large of a radius so maybe I should do that before I bore out the center.

So that’s what I did.  I stopped drilling and instead, used a grooving tool (modified parting blade) to approximate the shape for the 9/16” radius button.  I was originally going to remove half of the material so the button tool only had a quarter radius to cut.  But then I thought maybe I should take out a little more of the waste with the grooving tool to more closely approximate the shape of the radius, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-1-DSC_4284.jpg)

Then  I mounted up the 9/16” button tool and started to use that to form the quarter-round shape.  It was going quite well and I was very pleased until I got to where I had nearly full engagement of the button.  It was taking a LOT more tool pressure to start cutting.  Once it was cutting, it went ok, but it would stop cutting and I’d have to add extra pressure to get it to start cutting again.  I was worrying that maybe I’d caused some work hardening or something. And I should have stopped there. But no, I added just a little more pressure and it started cutting, then BLAM.  It bit in so hard it snapped the button right off the holder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-2-DSC_4286.jpg)

Hind site is 20-20, right?  Clearly, I should have listened to my uh-oh feelings and stopped pushing it. I will next time.  I promise!

Here’s a closeup of the tool.  You can see it snapped right at the base of the 3/16” stud that was holding the button in the tool.  (This is the back side of the button, not the cutting edge.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-3-DSC_4288.jpg)

I was pretty sure I could salvage this – the part, not the button tool :)

I used a round file to clean up the worst of it and it looks pretty OK as is.  There’s going to be a lot more file work on this part anyway, so you’ll never know what happened.  It’s just humbling to know how I goofed that up so admirably.  But then, any landing you can walk away from is a good one. One you can learn from, right?  :embarassed:

Here you can see where the tool really dug in on the left side.  I’m kind of thinking that my having uneven loading on the tool probably didn’t help this.  On the right side, there was a full quarter circle engaged with the work, and on the left side, just the lower bit was engaged.  I’m wondering if that’s one reason it dug in on the left side.  Or I was just stupid and didn’t listen to what it was telling me.  It just wasn’t sharp enough to do what I was asking it to do. (Mostly likely case.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-4-DSC_4290.jpg)

Here’s a picture showing the right side more. You can see there’s still a bit of a gouge there.  But I’ll position the part in the next operations so that this will disappear and no one will ever be the wiser!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-5-DSC_4291.jpg)

Regardless of my little mishap there, I actually feel pretty good about that button tool.  It really did its job quite well.  I was just expecting a little bit too much from it for that last bit.  Next time I’d probably do a similar profile on both sides.  And maybe make my stairsteps a little closer together than I did here.  I was being pretty rough in my approximations.  I’d leftover 0.050” to cut at full tool engagement, and apparently, that was too much to ask.

With that excitement behind me, I then went back to step drilling out the center hole up to about 13/16”, then used a stubby boring bar to widen the hole to a few thou over 7/8”.  Then I made a step at 29/32”.  This step will be used for a retention device in our next setup.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-6-DSC_4296.jpg)

And with all the boring done, I cut it off:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-7-DSC_4298.jpg)

And there’s the current progress on the stack base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215b-Stack-8-DSC_4302.jpg)

Next, I’ll be making the fixture to hold it for cutting the radius on the bottom so it fits over the smokebox!

Thanks for joining me on my daily learning excursions.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 06, 2023, 12:18:10 AM
Glad you are recovering, hope that continues well!

The base is looking great so far - lots of filing in your future when you get to blending the sides down onto the boiler. When I did my Shay I used brass for the stack to make the shaping easier, even so it was a lot of work with a coarse file then finer ones.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 06, 2023, 02:55:36 AM
Nice recovery Kim! The base looks good. The form tool looks repairable.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

(it's no accident that my scrap bins storage bins for things to be used later have a number of broken tools of various sorts - it happens to most of us I think.)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 06, 2023, 05:47:07 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!

Yeah, a lot of filing to go for sure!

I'm thinking I may use the small wheel attachment on my nifty belt sander to help out shaping the stainless.  We'll see.  I don't want to get too aggressive, but with the right size wheel and the right speed, I think it will help quite a bit!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 06, 2023, 11:10:56 PM
The next big step is to curve the bottom of the stack base so that it fits on top of the smokebox.   To do this, I needed to make a little holder piece. I made this from a scrap chunk of 1” 1018 that I had in my bits & pieces bin.  I’ll be using a 3/8-16 machine screw to hold it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-1-DSC_4304.jpg)

Here’s the holder piece stuck in the center of the stack base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-2-DSC_4307.jpg)

Next, I needed to make a fixture to hold the part in the correct orientation while I carve the saddle shape.  For this, I used a 3” length of 1/4" x 2 1/2" angle iron (hot rolled). I wanted to make sure the important sides are truly 90o so I started by flattening the base:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-3-DSC_4308.jpg)

Then I clamped the base down and trimmed the side of the upright that I’ll be using.  This way I know it is truly at a right angle to the base. (I had just put my RT on the table and this seemed like the easiest way to hold it at the time.  But it worked  :embarassed:).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-4-DSC_4312.jpg)

Now, back over to the vise where I drilled a 3/8” hole in the upright part to hold the stack base. After flipping the part in the vise, I used the DRO to measure over the specified distance from the surface of the upright and drilled & reamed a 1/4" reference hole.  I’d originally hoped that I could just do this in the angle iron itself, but turned out it wasn’t quite long enough.  So to remedy that, I just double-sticky-tapped a scrap of aluminum in place to extend the length out far enough that I could make the 1/4" reference hole.  This hole will take no stress. I just need it for locating things on the RT.  I did, however, use a clamp to aid the double sticky tape during the drilling operation.  The sticky tape didn’t hold to the hot rolled steel very well due to the mill scale.  But it held well enough for this operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-5-DSC_4315.jpg)

After zeroing in the RT, I used a 1/4" gauge pin to locate my holding fixture and clamp it in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-6-DSC_4319.jpg)

I then used the RT to cut the curved bottom on the stack base.  I would have preferred to use a carbide EM here, but the only thing I had with enough depth of cut was this 3/4” HSS end mill.   It worked, but it was a bit of a chore!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-7-DSC_4320.jpg)

After cleaning up the burrs, here’s the base up to this point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-8-DSC_4323.jpg)

And where it will go sitting atop the smokebox!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215c-Stack-9-DSC_4324.jpg)

Next up is the stack itself.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 06, 2023, 11:15:49 PM
Great fit on the smokebox. Amazing how much work can go into one curve on a part.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 07, 2023, 12:36:50 AM
That came out really well! You should be well pleased with how it fits. Looking forward to the stack, nothing says "steam locomotive" like a good smoke stack (or chimney)!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 07, 2023, 12:38:29 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

If you hear a very faint grumbling when you go in the shop next Kim, it's probably gonna be a perturbed gnat who can't even get one eyelash between the smokebox and the stack base!  :Lol: 

Top notch fit.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 07, 2023, 01:44:58 AM
Thanks Chris, Ron, and Jeff!  :cheers:

It does take a lot of work for those rounded parts. But they sure look nice when they fit right, don't they? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on June 07, 2023, 04:54:58 AM
Looks really good, Kim! And so does the smokebox door--sorry, been gone for a while. :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 07, 2023, 05:32:45 AM
Thank you Doug!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 09, 2023, 10:37:18 PM
The stack was started from a ~4” length of 1.25” diameter 303 Stainless rod.  I faced it off to the required length, then proceeded to drill it through.  However, all my good drill bits are machine screw length, so were not long enough to go more than about halfway through the bar.  So, I drilled a blind hold halfway through, starting at 1/4":
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-01-DSC_4327.jpg)

Then step drilled in 1/16” increments up to 1/2".
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-02-DSC_4330.jpg)

At which point, I turned the bar around and did the same process again.  By doing this, the holes from each end met in the middle.  I was worried about the holes from each end not being aligned but figured it would be close enough for a smoke stack.  Seems to have worked out pretty well.  I can’t feel an edge between the two holes, so I’m happy.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-03-DSC_4333.jpg)

Now, I wanted to go up to 5/8”.  And my cheap HF Silver & Deming bits are long enough to go all the way through.  So I stepped up to 9/16” then 5/8” which went well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-04-DSC_4336.jpg)

Next, I brought the outside end of the stack down to 7/8”.  This will be the part that sits in the base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-05-DSC_4339.jpg)

Like so – only, the base is upside down in this picture… Oops… :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-06-DSC_4341.jpg)

Then I bored a length in the end up to 11/16”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-07-DSC_4345.jpg)

And added a 60o chamfer to the inside bottom of the smokestack.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-08-DSC_4348.jpg)

I flipped the stack around holding the 7/8” diameter in a 5C collet.  Next, we’ll be tapering the inside of the stack. To do this, I carefully adjusted the compound to 1.95o.  To get the required accuracy, I used the X-offset over Z-distance method to set the angle precisely. 1.95o sounds rather arbitrary, but it’s really just what is required to connect the two inside dimensions with a single taper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-09-DSC_4352.jpg)

Then I proceeded to actually bore the taper.  This took a lot of long cranking sessions moving the compound slide back and forth.  No power feed on the compound!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-10-DSC_4354.jpg)

I then added a small 60o chamfer on the top of the stack (sorry, no pic) and used a live center to help hold the part steady while tapering the outside.  I started by defining the top radius of the stack, just below what will be the decorative ring.  I did this with the grooving tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-11-DSC_4359.jpg)

Then I used my favorite tangential tool to take off the bulk of the material before actually starting the tapering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-12-DSC_4363.jpg)

And after carefully setting the compound taper to its new required value of 1.05o, I tapered the outside of the stack.  I had to switch to the lefthanded tool to get the last bit of taper up to the top of the stack.  Now, all of the outside dimensions up to this point are about 1/64” over their final size.  After soldering we’ll take down that last bit to clean things up and blend the two parts together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-13-DSC_4366.jpg)

And here we are AFTER silver soldering the two parts together.   Annoyingly, I forgot to take a picture of the stack piece before soldering.  But hopefully, you can imagine what it might have looked like.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215d-Stack-14-DSC_4369.jpg)

The part is now being pickled.  Tomorrow we’ll move forward with the final shaping of the smoke stack!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 09, 2023, 11:48:35 PM
Coming along nicely Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 10, 2023, 12:04:50 AM
Smokin!  Thats a lot of work, looks great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 10, 2023, 12:37:42 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 10, 2023, 05:23:19 AM
Thank you Dave, Chris, and Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on June 10, 2023, 03:56:47 PM
Hi Kim,
More trials & tribulations behind you! Well done, coming along nicely!

You need to sort out your top slide power feed, cranking the handle to do long parts like that looses its appeal quite quickly........ sure youve got a battery drill sitting in the corner .... you know the one its got the sign over saying...."PICK ME!"

Welcome to the "had covid club!" Best advice when your body says sit down i need a rest, do it! Both my wife & i found that once we had eaten all we wanted to do was sit... took a couple of weeks for that to pass.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 10, 2023, 04:43:19 PM
Thanks Kerrin!
You need to sort out your top slide power feed, cranking the handle to do long parts like that looses its appeal quite quickly........ sure youve got a battery drill sitting in the corner .... you know the one its got the sign over saying...."PICK ME!"
Now that's an interesting idea! :)  :ThumbsUp:

Welcome to the "had covid club!" Best advice when your body says sit down i need a rest, do it! Both my wife & i found that once we had eaten all we wanted to do was sit... took a couple of weeks for that to pass.
Yeah, the cough and sinus issues are lingering on, and I do notice I don't yet have my full stamina back. I get tired much more quickly!  But time will heal.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 10, 2023, 07:21:46 PM
That's some more fine fabrication  :praise2: Kozo certainly gives some good information  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 10, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
Thanks Roger!
That's some more fine fabrication  :praise2: Kozo certainly gives some good information  :ThumbsUp:
Doesn't he though? :)
I've learned a lot from not only reading his steps, but doing them.  Sometimes the wisdom of his methods isn't clear to me till I'm part way through an item and I see why he did it that way!  Kozo's a pretty smart cookie!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 10, 2023, 10:50:34 PM
After silver soldering the stack to the base, it’s now time to take all outside dimensions down to their final size.  I did this by making a step-off chart and turning things down in the lathe – except for the long tapered stack part. That was done with the compound again.  I hadn’t changed the compound setting since I approximated this yesterday which made that pretty easy to do.  You can see the stairsteps on the lower cove and the upper bead around the top of the stack.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-1-DSC_4372.jpg)

I blued up the stack then went at it with some files to remove the stairsteps. While not completely done, this is getting pretty close.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-2-DSC_4374.jpg)

Next, I took the stack out of the lathe and used the small wheel attachment on my belt sander to help rough out the saddle shape of the smokestack base.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-3-DSC_4383.jpg)

Then back to the lathe where I used various grits of sandpaper wrapped around a 1/2" wooden dowel to sand the roughed shape into the final shape.  This step took a long time and a lot of work. I started with 100 grit and worked my way up to 400 grit. But I think it looks pretty good! 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-4-DSC_4391.jpg)

Here’s the completed stack:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-5-DSC_4394.jpg)

And what it looks like in its new home!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215e-Stack-6-DSC_4396.jpg)

The next part will be the cone, which is just a collar that will fit around the bottom of the stack, inside the smokebox, to hold it in place.

I’m really chuffed with how the smoke stack came out!  It’s really starting to look train-ish, isn’t it?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 10, 2023, 10:59:32 PM
That is Beautiful!  Great work all round, plus that narrow wheel on the sander worked great.   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 10, 2023, 11:59:13 PM
You've got good reason to be chuffed, Kim. That stack is a beauty! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 11, 2023, 12:04:57 AM
The stack turned out very nice Kim!
You are correct it is really starting to look the part.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on June 11, 2023, 01:53:16 AM
This project is coming along so nicely Kim!     Good looking stack

I remember reading this article when it first came out and was very impressed with Kozo's methods....you're doing the project justice!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on June 11, 2023, 04:19:00 AM
Great stack!

Awhile ago I made an aluminum adapter to drive the lathe's compound with a cordless drill.  Obviously you want to set the drill clutch to it's lowest setting so it will slip if you run out of travel.  Even on the slow speed range, I wish the drill went a bit slower but this technique does give you a smoother taper.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 11, 2023, 05:40:56 AM
Thank you Chris, Ron, Dave (O), Dave (Steamer), and Krypto!   :cheers:

Awhile ago I made an aluminum adapter to drive the lathe's compound with a cordless drill.  Obviously you want to set the drill clutch to it's lowest setting so it will slip if you run out of travel.  Even on the slow speed range, I wish the drill went a bit slower but this technique does give you a smoother taper.
Yeah, I've got a cordless drill and I might try it for this someday.  I use the compound so rarely though, it hardly seems worth while to rig something up...  But I may someday!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 11, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
Even if the last picture isn't in that angle - you now got a Profile almost all people reconize as a Steam Locomotive  :pinkelephant: + the Stack looks great  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on June 11, 2023, 11:33:41 AM
Hello Kim,

the chimney sits perfectly on top of the smoke box. I will remember your way of making the chimney.
Eventually I'll start my 5 inch locomotive.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 11, 2023, 12:14:22 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great work Kim! Very nice blending job on the base.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 11, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Thank you Per, Michael, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Michael, I have to give credit to Kozo for this excellent series of operations for fabricating the stack!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 11, 2023, 10:22:57 PM
Chapter 25.9 – Cone and Setscrew

The cone was made from the same 1.25” 303 SS as the main stack.  I chucked it up in the 3-jaw and turned and bored the part.  Not too much excitement here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-1-DSC_4400.jpg)

After cutting it off, I held it in a 5C collet block to drill and tap the hole for the #5-40 set screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-2-DSC_4402.jpg)

Then I made the set screw from some 5/32” hex brass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-3-DSC_4404.jpg)

To mark the location for the receiving set screw hole, I used a transfer punch to make a mark on the stack:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-4-DSC_4409.jpg)

Then, per Kozo’s instructions, I drilled the receiving hole 1/64” higher than the mark indicated.  This is to help hold the stack down tightly to the top of the smoke box.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-5-DSC_4415.jpg)

Here’s all the parts of the completed stack assembly,
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-6-DSC_4418.jpg)

And what it looks like mounted on the smoke box.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/215f-Stack-7-DSC_4424.jpg)

I’ll have to say, that 1/64” offset is brilliant!  It worked like a charm! I tell you, that Kozo gets you every time!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: EricB on June 11, 2023, 10:56:57 PM
Amazing work!  :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 12, 2023, 12:17:13 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 12, 2023, 05:25:26 AM
Thanks Eric and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 13, 2023, 08:32:48 PM
Splendid  :)  :) Somehow it is the chimney (smokestack) that really makes a steam engine   :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 13, 2023, 09:26:41 PM
Thank you Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 14, 2023, 11:23:36 PM
Chapter 25.10 – Headlight Bracket

We’re still working on smokebox adornments, and today’s part is the Headlight Bracket. This part, as the name implies, will hold the headlight, once it is made.

The part is fabricated from 1/16” sheet steel metal (4130).  I started by cutting the required pieces to approximate size on the bandsaw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-01-DSC_4429.jpg)

After squaring it up and milling to size, I used a 1/16” slitting saw to cut a notch on each side of the bigger piece (the top).  This picture is showing one side being cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-02-DSC_4431.jpg)

The two smaller pieces were double-sticky-taped together, milled to dimension, then cut a slot in one side of both parts in a single operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-03-DSC_4433.jpg)

After slitting, I bent the two smaller parts to act as the legs for the headlight bracket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-04-DSC_4434.jpg)

Here’s what the 3 pieces look like at this point:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-05-DSC_4438.jpg)

Sliding the slits together, you get this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-06-DSC_4442.jpg)

After cleaning and applying flux & solder, I torched it up and here we are after silver soldering the parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-07-DSC_4445.jpg)

Following a quick pickle and rinse, I used the belt grinder to take off the execs portion of the legs since it is no longer needed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-08-DSC_4448.jpg)

Next, I sawed out the sections between the feet, then used a 1/4” end mill to clean up the sawed edges:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-09-DSC_4451.jpg)

Now with the part at this stage, I used a 3 1/2" pipe as a mandrel to help coerce the legs and feet into the proper angle.  The coercion was provided by a hammer and various pliers/vice grips.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-10-DSC_4454.jpg)

After a lot of testing and tweaking, I eventually got a tolerable fit where the headlight bracket was reasonably square to the boiler.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216a-HeadlightBracket-11-DSC_4457.jpg)

Next, I’ll be drilling the mounting holes in the feet.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 15, 2023, 12:38:34 AM
Came out great. Nice to know the hammer is still a vital tool in the machine shop!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 15, 2023, 12:44:29 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looks great Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 15, 2023, 05:43:30 AM
Came out great. Nice to know the hammer is still a vital tool in the machine shop!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 :killcomputer:    :hammerbash:  :killcomputer:

er... something like that anyway!   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 15, 2023, 10:06:39 PM
To finish up the headlight bracket, I clamped it in the mill vise, like an upside-down turtle, and used a little spotting drill to mark the locations for the mounting holes.  This ‘seemed’ like a reasonable method, since this is how I spaced the holes on the boiler. And my thinking was if I used the same measurements on the mating surfaces, it OUGHT to match up, even though it’s a curved surface.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216b-HeadlightBracket-1-DSC_4460.jpg)

After marking the holes, I sort of freehanded drilled them, letting the drill find the center of the mark.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216b-HeadlightBracket-2-DSC_4462.jpg)

This method worked OK. I think the biggest problem is that I didn’t make the center marks deep enough.  And the marks were deeper on the ‘outside’ than the ‘inside’ of the curve which I think pulled the hole to one side.  I should have probably tried to establish the center better before I free-handed the holes.  I’m thinking that would have been better.

Regardless, I was able to widen out a few of the holes and make everything work.  Also, I’d screwed up on tapping the holes in the smokebox here.  I accidentally tapped one of them 3-48 (they were supposed to be 2-56).  So I took a 3-48 screw and filed the head down on the lathe to make the head look the same size as a 2-56 screw.  So the headlight bracket is held on with three 2-56 screws and one modified 3-48 screw.  Nobody will ever know!

And finally, I drilled the mounting holes for the headlight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216b-HeadlightBracket-3-DSC_4465.jpg)

Here it is perched at the front of the smoke box, waiting patiently for me to make a headlight so it will have something to do!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/216b-HeadlightBracket-4-DSC_4468.jpg)

That’s it for my update today.

Next, we’ll start on the smokebox saddle.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 16, 2023, 04:31:17 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on June 16, 2023, 12:38:30 PM
Hello Kim, I really like the holder for the lanpe.
And I think you did a good job of eliminating the error with the screw. This has happened to me many times and fortunately there are many screws for special mistakes in the hole and screw thread at the screw dealer.
Here is an excerpt from the catalogue. Of course everything strictly according to German industry standard (DIN).

DIN 875: for offset holes

DIN 876: if there is not enough space on the screw head on one side

DIN 877: for countersunk holes that are too large

DIN 878: for diagonally drilled holes

DIN 879: for holes countersunk on the wrong side

DIN 880: for double drilled holes

DIN 881: for holes that are too large

DIN 882: for holes countersunk too deep

DIN 883: special screw to reduce assembly time

DIN 884: if there is doubt about the length

DIN 885: for alternating angle error

DIN 886 for screws key 13/17/19

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 16, 2023, 05:21:09 PM
Thank you Jeff and Michael!  :cheers:

I love all those special screws!  I certainly could use some of those from time to time!  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 17, 2023, 11:41:35 PM
Chapter 25.11 – Smokebox Saddle

The Smokebox Saddle is made up of five pieces, all silver soldered together, and a base that will be screwed onto the bottom.

I chose to make most of it out of sheet steel (4130), but Kozo recommends making the saddle part out of copper to make the bend easier to do.  So that’s what I’ll be doing.

The first pieces I’m making for the Smokebox Saddle are the front and the back.  These define the somewhat complex shape for the part.

I started by cutting some 1/8” 4130 sheet to somewhat oversized for what is required.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-1-DSC_4472.jpg)

I then double-sticky-taped them together and squared them up on the four sides.  This step is probably not specifically needed, but it will make holding onto the part and calculating locations much easier.

Then I marked up the basic shape for the part and started drilling the defining holes.  The two larger holes are through holes for 8-32 screws I’m going to use to hold the parts in a jig for cutting the saddle shape.  The two smaller holes are the center locations for larger 5/8” holes I’ll be making that will define the rounded part of the sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-2-DSC_4476.jpg)

Here I’ve just finished drilling the 5/8” holes.  5/8” isn’t exactly the correct size for this radius, but it’s within a few tens of thou to what is required so I decided it would be close enough.  It’ll be much better than I could do freehand for sure!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-3-DSC_4479.jpg)

Next, I centered up the rotary table and mounted my jig in place to cut the saddle curve.  However, as I was doing this I realized something was wrong.  As I approached the final radius for the curve, I wasn’t as close to my layout line as I thought I should be.  I measured everything and it was all seeming right, but eventually, after a lot of faffing about, I finally found my error.  I’d dropped a digit when I was drilling the jig.  I was supposed to make my 8-32 holes 2.5625” (that is, 2 9/16”) away from the center of rotation.  But what I actually did was made the holes 2.625” away - I accidentally dropped the 5 in the 1/10ths digit which made the holes 1/16” too far away!  This is why when I reached the correct radius, I wasn’t hitting my line.  :facepalm:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-4-DSC_4481.jpg)

Luckily, I could fix this by re-doing my jig.  And then re-centering the RT, and resetting everything up.  But THIS time, I did it correctly! Funny how one little dropped digit can cause such problems!  But this is a case where drawing my layout lines saved my bacon!  I had to make the new holes on the opposite side of my jig plate otherwise the holes would have overlapped.  1/16” isn’t very much distance, but it’s enough to screw things up!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-5-DSC_4485.jpg)

With that finally done, I started working on the side profile.   I did this by cutting the unnecessary ends off on the band saw, then cleaning it up on the mill.  I did it one end at a time so I didn’t lose all reference edges.  Here’s one edge getting cut down to the final dimension.  I also used a file to take a little bit off the left edge of the circle there.  The 5/8” hole is actually inset from the edge by about 0.066”, so I needed to flatten that peak out a little.  I chose to just file it off rather than mess around with the mill to take off that ~6 thou peak there.  (You can still see the similar peak on the right side which I don’t care about because it will be completely removed in the next step.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-6-DSC_4489.jpg)

After doing the same on the opposite side, I then milled off the narrower portion above the radius.  I took my time to make sure I kept this centered as well as possible.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-7-DSC_4492.jpg)

With that done, I separated the two ends.  Here they are up to this point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217a-SmokeboxSaddle-8-DSC_4496.jpg)

Now I have to make the curved sides and the top of the saddle.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 18, 2023, 12:03:27 AM
Quite a complex part!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 18, 2023, 01:22:06 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

WOOT WOOT WOOT  -------------WARNING - ULTRA BAD PUN IS ABOUT TO OCCUR - TAKE COVER -------WOOT WOOT WOOT---------------------

I'm just glad Kozo didn't design it in magnesium. We woulda had a remake of Blazing Saddles while silver soldering it, without any baked beans!  :Lol:    :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 18, 2023, 06:07:17 AM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

WOOT WOOT WOOT  -------------WARNING - ULTRA BAD PUN IS ABOUT TO OCCUR - TAKE COVER -------WOOT WOOT WOOT---------------------

I'm just glad Kozo didn't design it in magnesium. We woulda had a remake of Blazing Saddles while silver soldering it, without any baked beans!  :Lol:    :facepalm:
:ROFL:

Actually, Kozo designed it all in brass (well, brass and copper).  I have opted to do most of it in steel since I found that to be significantly less expensive than brass!

But brass sure is fun to work with!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on June 18, 2023, 08:42:28 AM
Some more fun fabrications  :)  :)  I'm glad you could recover from the dropped digit  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on June 18, 2023, 12:49:29 PM
Looking forward to this part....It's a key part and very recognizable.    It's coming along really well!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 18, 2023, 04:40:02 PM
Thanks Roger and Dave!  And Chris, thank you too!  I didn't mean to leave you out :)  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on June 19, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Still with you Kim she’s Shaping up and some very nice work…… :cheers:

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 19, 2023, 05:29:10 AM
Thank you, Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 19, 2023, 10:53:30 PM
The next parts of the smokebox saddle I’m making are the sides.  These sides will be curved to fit the shape of the ends.

I cut the sides from 0.040” sheet steel and squared them up.  Again, this step might not have been required, but It sure helped me in making the curves in them.

Here’s how I made the curves. I took a piece of 9/16” brass rod and bent one end a quarter way around the bar.  I didn’t bother to anneal the steel, it seemed to take the bend OK as it was.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-1-DSC_4499.jpg)

I drew some parallel lines on the stock to help me line things up so the curves would come out close to parallel with the edges.  The edges will be removed later, but if it got very askew I’d have trouble holding the part to make holes in the next step.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-2-DSC_4502.jpg)

Which I did like this - holding it gently, long way in the mill vise.  I based the location of the holes on the bottom of the curved section of the side.  I was a little worried about this step, but it seemed to work out quite well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-3-DSC_4505.jpg)

Then I drilled holes in the ends for tapping 0-80. Er, well, that's what I was SUPPOSED to do, at least.  Unfortunately, I forgot to change the size of the drill bit I was using so ended up drilling them through holes for 0-80.  :facepalm:  So after a quick panic attack, I eventually came to the realization that through hole size for 0-80 (#52) is just the right size for tapping holes for #1-72.  And since these are just for hold-down screws for silver soldering, I can use 1-72 screws just as easily as 0-80.  No bigger there.  Sometimes my screwups work out fine!  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-4-DSC_4509.jpg)

After tapping the holes, here’s a quick fit of the pieces so far.  You can see that the top of the sides stick up too far.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-5-DSC_4512.jpg)

So my next step was to sand those down on the belt sander till they were in line with the saddle shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-6-DSC_4514.jpg)

And here’s the state of play at the end of shop time today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217b-SmokeboxSaddle-7-DSC_4517.jpg)

Next up will be the curved saddle part.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 19, 2023, 11:55:59 PM
That's coming along nicely Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 20, 2023, 12:46:57 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Going to be a nice sturdy structure. Great workmanship Kim.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 20, 2023, 02:19:43 AM
Thank you Dave and Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 20, 2023, 11:17:26 PM
I cut a piece of copper for the saddle and trimmed it square.  I trimmed it to width but left it long for trimming after soldering.

Then I used my trig to calculate the holes' locations – that is, where they should be drilled while flat, to come out in the correct place when the plate is curved.  Always a little bit of an iffy proposition to do it in this order, but I thought it would be worth a try.  If it fails, I can always cut another piece of copper, right? :)

The four inner holes are for solder hold-down screws.  The four outer holes (close to the corners) are for attaching the smokebox to the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217c-SmokeboxSaddle-1-DSC_4521.jpg)

Then I annealed the copper and bent it around my ‘nearly right-sized’ mandrel.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217c-SmokeboxSaddle-2-DSC_4525.jpg)

I then marked the location for the little hold-down screws in the end pieces and drilled those for 1-72 threading.  I’m drilling them at a 15o angle.  I calculated that 15.5o would be the optimal angle, but I happened to have a 15o angle block and figured that would be close enough.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217c-SmokeboxSaddle-3-DSC_4528.jpg)

And here it is all fitted together.  Looks pretty good so far.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217c-SmokeboxSaddle-4-DSC_4531.jpg)

Next, I’ll be silver soldering it together.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 20, 2023, 11:48:27 PM
Impressive - thats a complex set of shapes for sure!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 20, 2023, 11:53:22 PM
Very nice work, Kim. Looks great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2023, 05:48:53 AM
Thanks Chris and Ron!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 21, 2023, 12:05:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2023, 11:49:42 PM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2023, 11:56:51 PM
First thing today I cleaned all the parts of the smokebox saddle, fluxed it up, broke out the torch, and soldered it all together:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-01-DSC_4534.jpg)

After the obligatory pickle, I used the belt sander to remove the bulk of the excess metal.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-02-DSC_4539.jpg)

Then I moved to the Dremel and some small files to get the screw heads and clean up the rest of the parts I couldn’t get on the belt sander.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-03-DSC_4549.jpg)

While doing all that file work I noticed that there was a bit of a wobble in the part.  It didn’t sit flat.  I’m not sure if that was from my carelessness in assembling it for soldering, or the fact that I dunked it in the pickle while it was still pretty hot.  Regardless, I wanted to try and see if I could remove that little twist.  I tried several things and nothing was doing it.  Then I came up with this – I clamped the ‘short’ corners to my drill press table while the high corners were setting on a 40 thou scrap from my junk box.  I reefed the clamps down pretty good and left it there for a bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-04-DSC_4543.jpg)

When I loosened the clamps, the wobble was less! Something must have been working :)  So I repeated the operation, clamping a little harder and waiting a little longer.  And now it seems to be wobble-free!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-05-DSC_4547.jpg)

It wasn’t a huge wobble – maybe 1/64” or so on one corner.  But I was able to force the twist out (or alternately, force a twist into it :)).

Now, to cut the hole for the steam tee.
I chose to chain drill the hole. This didn’t really go that well.  Even though I’d used a center drill for every one of those holes, the 1/8” drill bit wandered around a LOT.  Guess drilling on an angle like that isn't a great idea, even with a center spot.  Probably should have flattened it or just done it with the mill to begin with.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-06-DSC_4553.jpg)

But, I was able to open up the hole carefully using a 1/8” end mill. You can see how ugly the edges look.  That drill bit really did move around!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-07-DSC_4557.jpg)

After that, I used the same 1/8” end mill to trim the outside edges to the proper width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-08-DSC_4560.jpg)

And then rounded the corners a bit with a file. Here’s the completed smokebox saddle:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-09-DSC_4564.jpg)

To assemble it to the smokebox I had to ream the mounting holes some.  Guess my ‘drill before bending’ idea didn’t go as well as I’d hoped.  But with some careful reaming, it all came out OK (not that I was ever really worried).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-10-DSC_4567.jpg)

And now, a quick shot of the smokebox & saddle setting on the Steam Tee.   Sorry, I didn’t bother to put the boiler in place for the pic - I’ve still got more work to do on the smokebox saddle assembly.  Have to make the base for it.  That’s what will hold it all in place around the steam tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/217d-SmokeboxSaddle-11-DSC_4570.jpg)

Thanks for looking in on my progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 22, 2023, 12:13:30 AM
Nice progress!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 22, 2023, 01:50:25 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: looking great Kim! I see you turned on the Klingon cloaking device to hide the boiler..... :Lol:  (that's one theory, anyway!)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 22, 2023, 05:14:19 AM
Thanks Dave and Jeff!  :cheers:

:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: looking great Kim! I see you turned on the Klingon cloaking device to hide the boiler..... :Lol:  (that's one theory, anyway!)
Ugh... Did I forget to turn the cloaking device off again?!?   :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 22, 2023, 09:38:30 AM
Interesting way to do a complex shape  :ThumbsUp:

I certainly learn a lot from following this thread Kim  :praise2:   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on June 22, 2023, 01:06:27 PM
You didn't need to chain drill.  Plunge the endmill and then cut.  If you need to drill on a non-flat surface, use an endmill to create a flat spot then spot drill.

Or cut the hole when the copper was flat.  The dimensions aren't super-critical.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 22, 2023, 05:30:21 PM
Thanks Per and Kvom!

You didn't need to chain drill.  Plunge the endmill and then cut.  If you need to drill on a non-flat surface, use an endmill to create a flat spot then spot drill.

Or cut the hole when the copper was flat.  The dimensions aren't super-critical.
True.  My thinking was that copper is so grabby I'd rather drill than mill.  Not sure it was the right choice.

And I did consider doing it when flat, but I was worried that it might not bend uniformly with a big rectangle taken out of the middle.  probably wouldn't have given me any more problem than drilling the holes when flat, like I did...

Many ways to do it.  And I get better about selecting the method as I learn (or so I keep telling myself  :Lol:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on June 22, 2023, 06:29:47 PM
Kim, the smoke box sits very well on the locomotive frame.
You have done well once again.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 22, 2023, 11:05:16 PM
Thank you Michael!  :cheers:
I hope you can still say that after today's update!  :o

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 22, 2023, 11:20:15 PM
Chapter 25.12 – Bottom Cover

Today I made the bottom cover for the smokebox saddle.  The bottom cover, as the name implies, covers the bottom of the smokebox saddle wrapping it firmly around the steam tee.

I started by cutting a piece of 0.040” sheet steel to size and squaring it up on the mill. 

But before drilling the mounting holes I needed to determine where those holes would land on the underside of the smokebox saddle.  The actual locations of the holes are a little different than the theoretical values shown in the drawing, but that’s OK.  Kozo even says to take the dimensions for the bottom cover from the part, not the drawing.

So I measured the actual size of the assembled smokebox saddle and used that to calculate the actual positions for the mounting screws.  Then I drilled them using DRO coordinates and tapped them (0-80).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-1-DSC_4573.jpg)

Then I took my bottom cover and used the exact same coordinates, and drilled the mounting holes.  I actually calculated coordinates for the bottom cover based on the center of the sheet; that way the extra material will be split across all sides allowing for flushing up later.  I also drilled the hole that will go around the stud that allows for the oil ingress to the steam tee.  Had to do a bit of a dance with the parallels to keep from drilling into them!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-2-DSC_4577.JPG)

I next attached the bottom cover to the assembly and used the belt sander to remove the 1~/16” extra that is all around the edge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-3-DSC_4580.jpg)

Now began the process of making everything fit.  This was quite a process.  There’s a bunch of stuff that’s supposed to line up in certain places.  Like, the edge of the curved part of the smokebox saddle should line up with the top of the chassis, and the bottom cover should fit snugly across the bottom of the steam tee.  Unfortunately, they didn’t.  After a lot of measuring and checking the drawings to make sure the steam tee was the correct height and in the right place, and everything else I could think of, I finally settled on reducing the height of the steam tee interface plate on the smokebox.  I filed this down very carefully, working to keep it very flat and uniform.  I think I was successful.  This allowed the whole smokebox saddle assembly to fit a few thou lower and mate up in the right place with the chassis (or closer at least).  It also allowed the bottom cover to fit across the bottom of the steam tee.  I don't know what went wrong where.  Probably just an accumulation of little errors or possibly some bigger error in my boiler dimensions (not unlikely).  Regardless, I'm counting this as a win  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-4-DSC_4583.jpg)

Now, the next thing I had to deal with was the heads of the SHCS screw used to mount the cylinders.  They interfered with the bottom cover.  Again, I spent a significant amount of time reviewing the drawings – where the heads of those screws should be, and where the cover should align.  And I kept coming up with an interference here.  I could not figure out how they would not interfere with each other.  I considered replacing the SCHS with CSK screws, but that would require making a countersink there in the chassis which not only would require a LOT of disassembly but would mess up the paint.  Plus, the plans CLEARLY call out using a #5-40 SCHS screw there, which is what I’d done.

After lots of hemming and hawing, I chose to cut notches in the base plate to provide clearance for the screw heads.  If I decide to change my mind, it’ll just cost me a small piece of steel sheet (and sometimes).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-5-DSC_4586.jpg)

With it all finally assembled (and this WAS a bit of a chore!) you can see that the curved edge of the smokebox saddle lines up properly with the top of the chassis (at least on this side – the other side isn’t quite as good, but that’s why I showed you the better side!  :embarassed:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-6-DSC_4590.jpg)

For my parting shot today I remembered to turn off the cloaking device so you can see the boiler this time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/218a-BottomCover-7-DSC_4592.jpg)

This concludes the smokebox saddle & cover.  Next, I’ll start working on the pipework that goes inside the smokebox!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 23, 2023, 12:08:31 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  CHAdiJyh!! (Klingon for "Looks great to me")  :Lol: things need a little finessing from time to time. As you say, small errors can accumulate. You can always say "this shim was made to .001" accuracy, the shim was planned carefully for a perfect fit." I worked for a long time with some people highly skilled in "spin".  One favourite saying used to be "if you can't fix it, feature it!" :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 23, 2023, 01:51:18 AM
That. Is. Purty!    :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on June 23, 2023, 03:28:14 AM
Really enjoying the build. All these little bits really take a lot of effort!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 23, 2023, 05:25:45 AM
Thanks Jeff, Chris, and Krypto!  ;D

Jeff, you're Klingon is much better than mine!  I'd probably be swearing if I tried to say anything in Klingon!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on June 23, 2023, 08:51:18 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 23, 2023, 09:58:45 PM
Thank you Rich!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 23, 2023, 10:07:03 PM
Chapter 25.13 – Exhaust Nozzle

The next adornment for the smokebox is the exhaust nozzle.  This directs the exhaust from the cylinders, coming out through the steam tee, up into the smoke stack.  Ideally, its placement will be directly below the stack such that it will cause an updraft to pull air through the fire tubes and consequently, through the firebox, helping to maintain a nice hot fire to make more steam.

The exhaust nozzle is made from some 3/8” brass hex bar.

I started by creating a 5/16”-24 threaded section on one end. This will screw into the steam tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-1-DSC_4594.jpg)

Next, I drilled a #22 hole a smidge over 2” deep down the center.  This is a mighty long hole for being that small.  All my good drills are screw machine length – way too short to do this.  But I happen to have a cheap set of jobber-length numbered drills from Harbor Freight, so I used one of those.  Luckily, brass works quite easily and it's even good to have a less sharp drill when drilling brass. So, the cheap HF drill worked out just fine.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-2-DSC_4597.jpg)

I then pulled the part out further and cut it off to final length.  Luck continued to be on my side today.  I had measured the depth of the hole correctly and didn’t end up cutting into the deep hole I’d just drilled!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-3-DSC_4599.jpg)

With the part separated from the parent stock, I flipped it around in the 3/8” hex collet, shaped the end a bit according to the plans, and drilled a 1/8” hole through the end to meet with the long hole previously drilled.  This hole is only about 5/64” deep if I did all my measuring well.  Can’t think it would make too big of a difference if it is a little bit off, but I try to be as accurate as possible regardless.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-4-DSC_4602.jpg)

Here is the completed exhaust nozzle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-5-DSC_4606.jpg)

And here it is screwed into the steam exhaust port of the steam tee.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-6-DSC_4608.jpg)

What’s even better is that it is nicely centered under the stack!  This picture is taken straight down from the top of the stack.  I’m pretty pleased with that!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/219a-ExhaustNozzle-7-DSC_4611.jpg)

By the way, brass is really fun to work with.  Though I don't mind working in steel as much as when I first started this hobby, I do miss working with brass!

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 24, 2023, 03:26:55 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 27, 2023, 09:25:30 PM
Chapter 25.14 – Steam Piping, Blower Pipe, and Union Nut 

Over the last several days I’ve been working on the piping that goes inside the Smokebox.  There are two sections of pipework there.  One connects the main steam output from the steam dome to the steam tee, and the other directs the blower pipe up the smoke stack.

I started by making the required pipe nipples.  But in studying the drawing, it looks like there’s a cut-and-paste error here. The steam pipe is 3/16 OD, but the drawing for the pipe nipple shows a 7/32” hole for that 3/16” pipe.  I believe this drawing was likely copied from the one used for the tender pipework, and those pipes were 7/32” OD.  So I made the executive decision to follow the size of the pipework rather than the size shown.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-01-DSC_4615.jpg)

The nipples were all made from 5/32” diameter brass rod and were fairly simple turning exercises.
Here is one of the nipples for the steam pipe completed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-02-DSC_4617.jpg)

And here’s the nipple for the blower pipe, which is a 1/8” OD pipe, so different size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-03-DSC_4620.jpg)

And then I made the union nuts.  In this shot, I’m cutting it off at the wrong length.  Don’t worry. I figured it out eventually and turned it around and faced it off to the right length :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-04-DSC_4623.jpg)

Here are all the pipe fixtures needed for this work.  For some reason, I made three nipples for the steam pipe when only two are needed.  Ah well, guess I have an extra now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-05-DSC_4627.jpg)

For the pipe itself, I annealed the copper pipe and bent it carefully over a bending form. This worked quite well as this pipe is a little thicker-walled than the 7/32” diameter tube that I have.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-06-DSC_4630.jpg)

After a lot of careful bending and testing here are the two pipes in their basic shape. The one on the left is the blower pipe, and the one on the right is the steam pipe.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-07-DSC_4635.jpg)

Then it’s off to the hearth to solder the nipples in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-08-DSC_4639.jpg)

Luckily, I remembered to put the union nuts in place before soldering the second nipple on the steam pipe!  I was worried I’d forget this part!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-09-DSC_4643.jpg)

Now to be able to install these pipes, Kozo recommends that you modify a 3/8” nut driver.  So, I purchased a cheap set of nut drivers from harbor freight for a few bucks and proceeded to modify the 3/8” driver.  I put some nuts on a bolt and slid them in the socket before clamping it in place in hopes of keeping from deforming the socket too much.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-10-DSC_4646.jpg)

Now, what happened was I got one side of the wall too thin and it started to crack. The socket driver Kozo modified had a very deep socket.  But my cheap one had a very shallow socket, requiring me to mill out part of the shank, making the walls around the sides quite thin.  Too thin apparently.  As I was trying to pry open the socket (it deformed a little bit in the vise regardless of my precautions) the thin wall of the shank cracked.  My remedy for this was to use the MIG welder to fill in the crack with a bit of a built-up weld.  It mostly worked out.  My weld is very ugly, but I chose not to grind the outside ugliness down.  I’m hoping that thickness will provide a little extra strength to the nut driver.  Though this tool will win no awards for beauty, that's for sure!  :Lol:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-11-DSC_4649.jpg)

A nice shot of my ugly weld patch.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-12-DSC_4652.jpg)

It took way longer to make the tool than to use it.  Here are the two pipes mounted in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-13-DSC_4655.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/220a-SteamPiping-14-DSC_4659.jpg)

Now we’re closing in on the smokebox section of the build!  Only one more thing to do here, and that’s a deadweight.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 27, 2023, 10:11:32 PM
Some very fancy pipework!




Special wrenches are not only for  models, on the real Lombard hauler the museum had to make a special wrench for a similar  fitting in the smokebox, fortunately  they have a resident blacksmith!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 27, 2023, 10:52:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pipework Kim! You may be the first person in small locomotive building history to remember to put both nuts on the pipe , and the right way around, before soldering the ferrules!   :Lol:

(course that's never happened to me......much)  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 27, 2023, 11:01:34 PM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pipework Kim! You may be the first person in small locomotive building history to remember to put both nuts on the pipe , and the right way around, before soldering the ferrules!   :Lol:

(course that's never happened to me......much)  :Lol:
I can definitively say it has not happened to me ... today!   :wallbang:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 28, 2023, 05:37:07 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pipework Kim! You may be the first person in small locomotive building history to remember to put both nuts on the pipe , and the right way around, before soldering the ferrules!   :Lol:

(course that's never happened to me......much)  :Lol:
Well, I think it's the first time I've remembered to add the nuts.  Several times I've had to un-solder the end to add the nuts, or just do it over again  :wallbang:

But I remembered first this time!  See, I'm improving with age!

So, is the proper term for those little gizmos 'ferrule'?  Kozo calls them nipples.  I believe I've heard them referred to as 'olives' before, but I don't know the real term.  I just go with the flow.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 28, 2023, 09:31:33 AM
Lovely pipework Kim, and like the rest - I'm impressed that you remembered to solder it all in the right sequence .... yes age might improve this - but not as often as I wish it did  :old:

I think that some of the names are related to areas of use / country etc. and maybe even the particular shape  :noidea:

Per       :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on June 28, 2023, 12:42:49 PM
Nice work.  I myself probably would have used commercial unions if available in those sizes. 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 28, 2023, 01:21:03 PM
No idea Kim what the correct name is - I've heard them described as all three names and a few more that aren't printable here! (don't want to make Chris's shop elves blush)  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 28, 2023, 05:36:10 PM
Thanks Per, Kvom, and Jeff!  :cheers:

No idea Kim what the correct name is - I've heard them described as all three names and a few more that aren't printable here! (don't want to make Chris's shop elves blush)  :Lol:
Yes, don't want to make the shop elves uncomfortable!  This is a family forum after all!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on June 28, 2023, 06:43:54 PM
Thanks Per, Kvom, and Jeff!  :cheers:

No idea Kim what the correct name is - I've heard them described as all three names and a few more that aren't printable here! (don't want to make Chris's shop elves blush)  :Lol:
Yes, don't want to make the shop elves uncomfortable!  This is a family forum after all!   :Lol:

Kim
It would  take some real innovative cussing to shock my elves. After hearing their drink8ng songs (well, drunk singin), trust me!    :hellno:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 28, 2023, 09:05:48 PM
 :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on June 28, 2023, 10:02:21 PM
All that intricate work sure is time consuming isn’t it? Looking good Kim…


Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 29, 2023, 05:33:12 AM
All that intricate work sure is time consuming isn’t it? Looking good Kim…


Don
It certainly is, Don!  But I do enjoy it  ^-^

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 29, 2023, 11:54:13 PM
Chapter 25.15 – Deadweight

Yesterday and today I worked on the Deadweight that fits inside the smokebox.  It will bolt flush to the smokebox door.  Kozo says this is optional, but I opted to make it.  The idea is that it provides additional weight to the engine to help the wheels provide more tractive force for pulling a load.  And while I don’t intend to do a lot of load pulling, I wanted to make the deadweight anyway! :)

The blank for the deadweight was cut from a 3.5” bar of 12L14. This is the same bar I used for the basis of the drivers.  I weight what was left (9” or so) and it was over 24 lbs.  The little 1.25” chunk I sliced off was about 3.25 lbs!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-01-DSC_4663.jpg)

I took the slice over to the lathe and faced off both sides making it exactly 1 3/16” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-02-DSC_4666.jpg)

Here’s the puck blank before it has all the notches and holes cut into it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-03-DSC_4670.jpg)

I blued up one side and found the center using the coaxial indicator. Then I used a little pointy tool to scribe horizontal and vertical diameter lines.  I also added a couple of ticks at 45o on either side of the top. These will be used for alignment purposes later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-04-DSC_4674.jpg)

On the front side, I drilled three shallow 9/32” holes to provide clearance for the handrail studs and nuts that protrude on the inside of the smokebox door.  I also drilled #3 clearance holes for the screws to mount the deadweight to the smokebox door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-05-DSC_4678.jpg)

Then I flipped the part over and lined it up using gauge pins on the #3 through holes.  With it dialed in, I drilled deep countersink holes for the #3 screws. This is the backside of the dead weight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-06-DSC_4681.jpg)

Next, I turned the part vertical in the vise and lined up on the 45o mark (and the center, of course).  This is where I’ll mill out a pocket on the side of the weight to provide clearance for where the side rail studs and nuts will be eventually (they aren’t there yet.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-07-DSC_4685.jpg)

The drawings show this to be 9/32” wide.  I didn’t have a 9/32” end mill so I used a 1/4" and just made an extra cut down both sides to widen the groove.  I did the same to the opposite side too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-08-DSC_4688.jpg)

Then I realigned the part to the sides using the same eyeball & square method as above and used a 9/16” ball end mill to cut the clearance for the smokebox door mounting bracket. And of course, did the same on the opposite side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-09-DSC_4691.jpg)

And here’s the dead weight. All done.  Well, or so I thought, till I started to try and slide it in place in the smokebox and it wouldn’t go in.  Turns out, I’d forgotten to create one more clearance area!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-10-DSC_4694.jpg)

Luckily, even though I’d cleaned up all the blue, there were still trace marks of the scribe lines which helped in lining up the bottom of the part for this operation.  Using a 1/2" mill I took 3/32” off the bottom of the weight. This is necessary to make clearance for the joint strap on the bottom of the smoke box.  And why it didn't fit in the smoke box when I tried it!  :insane:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-11-DSC_4697.jpg)

NOW it’s all done.  Here it is, attached to the smokebox door.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-12-DSC_4701.jpg)

Now you see it…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-13-DSC_4710.jpg)

Now you don’t!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/221a-Deadweight-14-DSC_4707.jpg)

This concludes all the parts Kozo included in the chapter on the smokebox.  This was a big section!

Next up will be the headlights.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on June 30, 2023, 12:26:16 AM
Hi Kim
Congrats on finishing another section, everything is looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on June 30, 2023, 01:16:04 AM
It's really coming along, Kim.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on June 30, 2023, 03:20:35 AM
Awesome work!  The front looks great.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on June 30, 2023, 04:17:30 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Another major milestone Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on June 30, 2023, 04:57:56 AM
Thank you Dave, Ron, Krypto, and Jeff!   :cheers:

I may be out of the shop for a few days now.  Have some other domestic duties that I need to attend to.  Seems like a good spot to take a short break.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 02, 2023, 08:56:43 AM
Excellent Progress  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

I haven't seen an additional weight being fitted in the smokebox before  :thinking: but as Kozo says I guess that it helps traction.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on July 02, 2023, 07:09:07 PM
Kim, the locomotive looks great!

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 03, 2023, 05:36:24 AM
Thank you Roger and Michael!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on July 07, 2023, 05:44:16 PM
 :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2023, 11:04:18 PM
Thank you Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 07, 2023, 11:21:56 PM
I’ve been out of the shop for the last week, mostly working on backyard projects – demolishing a play structure that has outlived its useful life.  It served us well while our kids were growing up, but it is starting to rot and I’m afraid if anyone tried to use it, it would break and someone would get hurt. So, it was time to remove the attractive hazard from our yard.  It was a big job though.  Also had some family celebrations over the holiday weekend – Saturday was a birthday, Sunday was a triple header graduation party, and Tuesday was, of course, Independence Day.

But, with all that behind me, I’m back on my A3 switcher project!

Chapter 26.4 – Glasses and Miniature Bulbs

Today we start on the headlights!

I’m doing things a bit out of order here.  The headlight glass is the last thing Kozo addresses for the headlights, but I wanted to address it early on since I may have to find a way to procure these if I couldn't figure out how to make them.

Kozo's method for 'making' the glass is to obtain them from an optician.  But hoped I could make them from the same cheap microscope slides I used for the glass in the oil pump.  I had a box of 100 of them, well, only 97 now since I spent a few on the oil pump.  But still, I had a lot. They were the correct thickness.  So I wanted to see if I could make round glass from rectangular glass.

I started by putting a piece of tape on the glass and marking a 15/16” diameter circle on it with a compass. This is actually a failed attempt, but it’s the best shot of the circle on the tape that I had.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/222a-HeadlightGlass-1-DSC_4714.jpg)

I found that cutting the excess part of the tape off and removing it helped with the scoring.  I used a carbide-tipped scribe to score the glass, like so.  I did this on both sides of the glass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/222a-HeadlightGlass-2-DSC_4717.jpg)

Then I’d set the edge of one of the scribed lines on a straight edge and, while holding the glass firmly flat on the straightedge, I would press down on the piece of glass I wanted to break off.  Generally, it would snap right along the scribed lines.  But not always.  It took me multiple tries to get usable parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/222a-HeadlightGlass-3-DSC_4720.jpg)

Then I took the roughly octagon-shaped glass over to the bench grinder. And placing the tool rest level, and as CLOSE to the grinding wheel as possible, I proceeded to grind away all the bumps and points to get the glass down to the circle I wanted.  I used the circle pattern on the tape as my guide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/222a-HeadlightGlass-4-DSC_4723.jpg)

And, after a while, I had two acceptable circles, which is how many I need.  It took me five tries to get those two, but that’s not bad.  I spent a few slides on it so now I’m down to only 94-95 in my box.  I still have a lifetime supply of microscope slides!

The two on the right are the 'good' ones. The ones on the left are the rejects.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/222a-HeadlightGlass-5-DSC_4729.jpg)

I'll be addressing the bulbs later.  I'm planning on using LEDs for the lights so will be departing from Kozo's plans there.  He uses grain-of-wheat bulbs.  So this will take some changes in his electrical system which won't be coming up for some time.

Other than that, I spent most of my shop time coming up with a meaningful order of operations for the headlight housing, which is the first part Kozo has you make.  This is a rather complex shape, so it took me quite some time to work out my order of ops. And it will take even longer for me to machine!  But that’s what’s coming up next!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 07, 2023, 11:28:13 PM
Nice result on the lenses!  Put a really big label on them to help find them later on... Don't ask me why I know to do this...   :wallbang:

One thing I would add about grinding/sanding/sandblasting with glass - make sure to wear a particulate filter mask (and goggles), that really fine glass dust will play hell with your lungs/throat/sinuses, not to mention your eyes!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 08, 2023, 09:36:55 AM
Nice to see you back Kim  :whoohoo:  (I've mised the daily dose) ....

Five for Two - I think that is a lot better than I would do - so congrats  :cheers:

I would certaily also use LED's - then again, working in Electronics  ;D  I would - wouldn't I  ;D

Ohh yeah + I would keep the tape on those Lenses until they are installed - easier to spot + helps protect.

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 08, 2023, 11:38:57 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  Nice job on the lenses Kim. I think LED lights are a far better option than GOW bulbs nowadays. They're more easily available, will last a long time, use far less current, are less sensitive to shock and vibration - the list of advantages goes on and on! I imagine if Kozo had been able to get LED's when he was building the A-3 , Shay etc he would have used them without any hesitation.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 08, 2023, 04:41:32 PM
Thank you Chris, Per, and Jeff!  :cheers:
 
Chirs, appreciate the safety warning on the glass dust.  I'll be careful of that! Want to keep my lungs as long as I can, you know? :)

Per, good idea on leaving the tap on there.  I think I'll do that!

Jeff, I'm with you on the LEDs.  I think Kozo would have used them too, and I agree with all your reasoning!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2023, 11:08:10 PM
Chapter 26.1 – Housing

Now that I have the headlight glass worked out, I’ll move back to following Kozo’s order for the parts.  And the first part for the headlight will be the housing.

There are two of these required – one for the front of the engine, and one for the tender. These will be whittled from solid chunks of cold rolled steel.  Of course, Kozo specifies brass.

So, I started by cutting a couple of pretty hefty chunks from a 1.25” x 1.5” bar of 1018.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-1-DSC_4731.jpg)

Then spent some significant time bonding with my steel chunks by squaring them up and milling to size.  I did this using a 3/8” HSS roughing mill and a 1/2" carbide end mill.  It took a couple of hours to complete this operation. No pic of the process, since it’s pretty basic, but here’s a shot of the completed work.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-2-DSC_4735.jpg)

Next, I chose to drill and tap all the holes while the part was still nice and square and easy to hold.
I drilled and tapped (0-80) the mounting holes for the back cover.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-3-DSC_4738.jpg)

Then drilled and reamed a 1/4" hole in the spot where I’ll be boring the headlight hole later.  I decided to leave the boring operation till I’d done the rest of the shaping thinking that things would be more rigid and all.  It probably wouldn’t have mattered either way. But I made this 1/4" holes at this time so I can easily register where bore the holes later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-4-DSC_4740.jpg)

Then drilled the holes in the bottom to secure the headlight to the engine (or tender, as the case may be) and tapped them 2-56.  The hole in the center foreground is for the electric wire to operate the lamp.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-5-DSC_4742.jpg)

Finally, I drilled and tapped a hole in the center top for securing the top cover piece.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-6-DSC_4744.jpg)

And here's the state of play at the end of shop time today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223a-HeadlightHousing-7-DSC_4746.jpg)

Next time I’ll start shaping the outside of the housing.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 11, 2023, 11:11:32 PM
Looks like nice new homes for the LED bulbs!  If you get REALLY adventurous, you could make them from thin sheet stock, cut/bend all those little corners... No? Neither would I!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 11, 2023, 11:24:06 PM
Thanks Chris!

Looks like nice new homes for the LED bulbs!  If you get REALLY adventurous, you could make them from thin sheet stock, cut/bend all those little corners... No? Neither would I!
True, that would work. :)
But there may be something to having the additional weight of the solid chunk rather than an empty sheet metal box.  At least, that's my thinking.  Maybe?  And, as you say, it's a LOT easier to get crisp-looking corners by carving from the solid.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 11, 2023, 11:29:18 PM
Thanks Chris!

Looks like nice new homes for the LED bulbs!  If you get REALLY adventurous, you could make them from thin sheet stock, cut/bend all those little corners... No? Neither would I!
True, that would work. :)
But there may be something to having the additional weight of the solid chunk rather than an empty sheet metal box.  At least, that's my thinking.  Maybe?  And, as you say, it's a LOT easier to get crisp-looking corners by carving from the solid.

Kim
I'd forgotten about the weight aspect!  Was kidding about folding it up from sheet, that would be really really tricky to do!
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 12, 2023, 04:35:14 AM
Hmm.... weight....how about using solid tungsten blocks for the headlights? much heavier than steel.....  :hellno:   :Lol:

er..... maybe not! ( just kidding around, the steel will be just fine of course, and the tungsten is just a wee bit difficult to machine  :Lol:)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 13, 2023, 10:41:44 PM
Yeah, I should have used tungsten!  :lolb:


Over the last few days, I’ve made a little more progress on the headlight housing.

After drilling the blocks, I milled the topknot on both housings, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-1-DSC_4748.jpg)

Then, turning the part sideways, I milled a 1/32” undercut.  First, on the left and right sides, since those used the same depth settings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-2-DSC_4753.jpg)

Then on the front and back sides which were also the same (though different from the left and right sides, right?)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-3-DSC_4755.jpg)

Here we are with the top knots shaped on both housings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-4-DSC_4756.jpg)

Next, I started working on beveling the top.  Again, I did this in two steps, one for left/right, and one for front/back.
I started with the left/right sides.  I used a sine vise to set the angle I calculated for the left/right sides, calculated the depth I’d need to mill from the top corner, and proceeded to carefully mill off one side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-5-DSC_4758.jpg)

Flipping the parts around, I then did the opposite side.  The second side went much faster since I had some guidelines from the first side, but I was still careful with the final passes so I didn’t overcut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-6-DSC_4762.jpg)

Then using the same process for the front and back, I did them.  The front/back have a different angle than the left/right sides.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-7-DSC_4764.jpg)

And here are the two housings with the top bevels completed.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223B-HeadlightHousing-8-DSC_4767.jpg)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 14, 2023, 02:14:32 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Very nice Kim! The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 14, 2023, 02:16:41 AM
Nice lanterns!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2023, 05:21:45 AM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles!  :Lol:
Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun'  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 14, 2023, 07:55:12 PM
 :Lol: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on July 14, 2023, 07:58:12 PM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles!  :Lol:
Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun'  :ROFL:

Kim

I don't believe either of those explanations.  I'm thinking it's more in line with the "The Hound's" explanation of guys with a top-knot in 'Game of Thrones'.  They're horrified that someone has discovered they've hidden a bald spot under the top-knot.

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 14, 2023, 08:38:50 PM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles!  :Lol:
Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun'  :ROFL:

Kim

I don't believe either of those explanations.  I'm thinking it's more in line with the "The Hound's" explanation of guys with a top-knot in 'Game of Thrones'.  They're horrified that someone has discovered they've hidden a bald spot under the top-knot.

Don
I just figured the dragons liked having a handle to pick them up to snack on...
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2023, 10:19:24 PM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

The blocks still have that "oh!" expression reacting to their new topknot hairstyles!  :Lol:
Yeah, they're trying to get used to the 'man bun'  :ROFL:

Kim

I don't believe either of those explanations.  I'm thinking it's more in line with the "The Hound's" explanation of guys with a top-knot in 'Game of Thrones'.  They're horrified that someone has discovered they've hidden a bald spot under the top-knot.

Don
:lolb:

No doubt!  You get extra points for bring in a GOT reference, Don!  :ThumbsUp:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 14, 2023, 10:57:27 PM
Next, I put the bevels on all the edges of the left and right sides.  Again, I used the sine vise to set up my calculated angles and dialed in a specific depth of cut to get the amount of bevel desired.  I started with the front and back edges. Once I had got one edge dialed in, the other seven edges went quickly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223c-HeadlightHousing-1-DSC_4771.jpg)

Then I did the bottom edge.  While the angle and depth were the same, the location of the edge changed which meant I had to find the correct tool height for this cut.  And it only worked for the bottom edge, since the top and bottom edges are not symmetrically located on the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223c-HeadlightHousing-2-DSC_4772.jpg)

Just for fun, I stuck in this picture just to remind you of the setup I’m using – holding the sine vise in the mill vise.  This setup worked very well.  Something I could never have done on the Taig with its limited Z height.
But you can see how the location of the edge changes the height required for the tool  ^-^
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223c-HeadlightHousing-3-DSC_4775.jpg)

And finally, I did the top edges.  As mentioned before, the angle and depth are the same, but since it falls at a different location, it had to be dialed in separately.  Once it was dialed in for one top edge, I could do the other three top edges very quickly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223c-HeadlightHousing-4-DSC_4778.jpg)

Now, I didn’t show this part, but after all the bevels were cut, I went back and redid a few of them with a little more depth to help make those join lines come out closer to the corners.  They still aren’t exact, but they’re pretty close.

Here’s the shot showing all beveling (and bevel re-dos) complete.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223c-HeadlightHousing-5-DSC_4781.jpg)

The final step will be boring the holes for the headlights.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on July 14, 2023, 11:21:56 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 14, 2023, 11:36:26 PM
Excellent!  And I noticed you have kept the back/etc labelled, key to prevent a goof.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on July 15, 2023, 12:19:13 AM
Reaching back to my youth for a compliment while also referencing their solidity, I'll just say - Heavy, Dude! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2023, 05:20:12 AM
Thanks Jeff, Chris, and Ron!  :cheers:

Excellent!  And I noticed you have kept the back/etc labelled, key to prevent a goof.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Yeah, that's of vital importance for me!  Otherwise, I get all turned around and do things on the wrong side.  Actually, I STILL get all turned around.  But clear labeling helps!  :insane:

Reaching back to my youth for a compliment while also referencing their solidity, I'll just say - Heavy, Dude! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Well done!  Excellent use of the way-back machine!  :Lol:

Kim   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on July 15, 2023, 02:02:19 PM
Good job on getting all the angles correct. As someone who damn near scrapped a multi-month shop project because he read an angle on the plans wrong, I can now fully appreciate when someone gets it right.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 15, 2023, 04:43:58 PM
Thanks, Krypto!

Yeah, I get those angles wrong too, and not infrequently...  (which you know if you've read my build log - I made a big mess of the tender wheels on the angle front!)

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on July 16, 2023, 07:48:22 PM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Kozo brings in every detail  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2023, 09:02:31 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2023, 09:05:57 PM
I started by lining up the part using a gauge pin and the 1/4" reamed hole I previously made in the housing. Then I drilled, in steps, up to about 7/8” through hole and used the boring head to finish the hole out to 1.063”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223d-HeadlightHousing-1-DSC_4783.jpg)

The next thing was to make a step out to 1.142” diameter leaving 5/16” on the front side at the smaller 1.063” diameter.  This is why I did the boring from the back so that I could make this step diameter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223d-HeadlightHousing-2-DSC_4786.jpg)

And here are the two completed headlight housings.  The one on the left has the front facing you where as the one on the right, you're looking at the back.  Interestingly, I must have gone a bit deeper on the mounting holes in the one on the left since the mounting holes poke into the headlight opening.  This won’t matter since it will all be covered by the reflector and such.  Just interesting. No one will be the wiser when it's all assembled! :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/223d-HeadlightHousing-3-DSC_4790.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on July 16, 2023, 09:35:22 PM
They came out great!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on July 16, 2023, 09:52:30 PM
Definitely looking the part Kim!    Love the build, and watching it come together!.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on July 16, 2023, 10:31:26 PM
Coming along nicely!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on July 16, 2023, 10:42:06 PM
Thank you Chris, Dave, and Dave!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 15, 2023, 10:06:50 PM
It’s been quite some time since I did any work on my loco, so it’s high time to get back to it.  During the last part of July, we went to Florida to meet our new granddaughter!  :Love:  Just in case you've never been there, Florida's a stinkin' hot place in the summer! :Mad:   Inspite of the heat, and the daily thunderstorms (which I, as a Northwestern am not used to), we had a good time and it was wonderful seeing my daughter's family and meeting the new little one!

Upon returning home from Florida, we almost immediately turned around to set out on our annual extended family camping trip. While also a fun time, the trip didn’t go so well for us this year since the electrical system on our trailer shorted out partway through the stay :zap: and nothing, including our refrigerator, (or AC) would work.  That was a bummer.  I then proceeded to twist/sprain my ankle while picking up camp.  :facepalm:  I didn't realize how bad it was till we got home and saw the big lump on my ankle, and how black and blue it was! :o  I've spent the last week trying to stay off my injured ankle (which of course didn't include standing up out in the shop for an extended length of time).  My ankle is still far from being healed, but I couldn’t wait any longer to do something, so I’ve tried to have a few nice-easy days out in the shop; stand at a machine a bit, sit at my assembly desk for a long time, etc.  I "think" I’m being successful.  Guess we'll see if my ankle ever heals or not, eh?

Enough with my sordid saga.  On with the build!  :cartwheel:

Chapter 26.2 – Top Covers, Rear Covers, Baseplates, and Glass Holders

After completing the housing, I started the Top Covers for the headlights.  These appear to be nothing more than decorative pieces that screw into the top of the headlights.

These were made from 1/4" x 3/8” 1018 cold rolled steel. I first trimmed a length down to the specified size (height/width), then used a 1/16” radius mill to round off the edges. This will now be the top side of the top covers.  Kozo specifies 3/64” radius here, but since I had the 1/16” round-over bit I used that thinking it will look FAR better than me trying to freehand a 3/64 radius by filing (or on the belt sander).  I doubt anyone will notice that 1/64” difference there.  And it’s certainly not structural in any way, so I should be OK with my loose interpretation of the drawings :)  I did these initial steps without cutting things off the parent stock, just to make it easier to hold onto.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-1-DSC_4792.jpg)

Then I cut the two pieces off the end to use for the covers.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-2-DSC_4795.jpg)

After squaring up the ends and milling the pieces to the exact length, I drilled the hole for the mounting screw.  This also required a countersink for the screw head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-3-DSC_4798.jpg)

The final operation for the top covers is to make little decorative notches in their underside edges.  I used a 1/4" straight-end mill for this. The notch is 1/32” deeper than the radius of the mill.  Note that I carefully set up my vice stop so that I could do both sides of the part without a new setup.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-4-DSC_4801.jpg)

Unfortunately, as seems typical for me, when I flipped the part around, I saw the error of my ways… :facepalm:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-5-DSC_4803.jpg)

So, I used some tiny little parallels that I have to cover over that hole on the end and offset the cut by the width of the parallel.  Clever?  Maybe, if you can call recovering from your own stupidity clever :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-6-DSC_4805.jpg)

After doing both sides of both covers, here are the completed parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-7-DSC_4808.jpg)

And this is what they look like mounted to the headlight housing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/224a-HeadlightTopCover-8-DSC_4810.jpg)

Minimal progress for over a month, true.  But I’m still breathing (which is a definite plus) and I'm still making progress, albeit, slowly.  So I’m counting it a win! :)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 15, 2023, 10:50:16 PM
He never even saw the truck...    :Jester:    Wow, better to stay home in the shop where its safe!   ::)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 16, 2023, 03:12:51 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great to see you're working on the loco again Kim! Congrats on meeting your granddaughter, sorry to hear about the ankle. They take time to heal. The lamp housing details look great.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 16, 2023, 05:11:19 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!   :cheers:

Agree - stay home where its COOL and safe!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 16, 2023, 10:41:40 AM
Welcome back Kim  :cheers:

Great to updates again  :cartwheel:  and sorry about the mishaps ....

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on August 16, 2023, 03:56:13 PM
I was kind of wondering where you been, good to see you back in the shop.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 16, 2023, 04:08:31 PM
Thanks Per and Dave!  Appreciate the kind thought  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on August 16, 2023, 10:49:29 PM
Loving Kozo's design and your work Kim!

Keep at it   Progress is progress!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on August 16, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
Nice work Kim and glad to see you back.

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on August 17, 2023, 03:17:16 AM
I'm glad you're back! I was starting to suffer from withdrawal symptoms--had the shakes and felt cold and clammy. :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on August 17, 2023, 04:22:08 AM
I've missed your updates.  I'm glad you were able to visit family and have some relaxing time.
Glad you're back at it here.  Wonderful progress.
Hope your ankle gets healed up quickly.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 17, 2023, 04:52:01 AM
Thanks Dave, Don, Doug, and Todd!
Appreciate the comments!  Still plugging away...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: repkid on August 17, 2023, 07:32:05 AM
Nice trick with that parallel and good luck with you ankle. Glad to see you posting again.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 17, 2023, 03:27:08 PM
Thanks Repkid, appreciate the well wishes!  :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 17, 2023, 03:47:54 PM
Nice recovery, Hop-Along! It's easy to think the easy parts will be easy, isn't it? Hope the ankle is doing well, a bummer way to end your trip!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 17, 2023, 11:52:37 PM
Thanks Ron!
Hey, if this is the worst that happens to me, I'm incredibly blessed, aren't I?  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 17, 2023, 11:53:49 PM
Today’s part is the Rear Cover for the headlights.

The rear cover was made from sheet steel, Kozo uses brass, of course.

I started by cutting two squares of 0.040” sheet, double sticky taping them together, then trimming them square and to size on the mill:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/225a-HeadlightRearCover-1-DSC_4813.jpg)

Then I drilled four holes for the #0 mounting screws, still with the parts stuck together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/225a-HeadlightRearCover-2-DSC_4815.jpg)

After separating the two parts, I made a countersink in all of the mounting holes:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/225a-HeadlightRearCover-3-DSC_4818.jpg)

Here are the two completed rear covers:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/225a-HeadlightRearCover-4-DSC_4821.jpg)

And here they are installed on the headlights:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/225a-HeadlightRearCover-5-DSC_4824.jpg)

Just the right amount of activity for a nice light day in the shop (still babying my sprained ankle  :embarassed:).

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 18, 2023, 12:24:17 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 18, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Nice way to ease back into it!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 22, 2023, 09:57:54 PM
Thank you Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 22, 2023, 10:01:25 PM
Well, my ankle is getting better. Yay!  But I still don’t have a lot of shop time.  Somehow, all appointments and things got moved to the end of August due to our earlier travels. And on top of this, I’m working on selling our trailer and tow vehicle and will be purchasing a new, smaller car, probably an electric vehicle, for our second car. I'm pretty excited about this, BTW ;D.  So, these endeavors are taking up much of my time at the moment.

Nevertheless, I did make some modicum of progress today.  I made the headlight bases.

These were made from 1/8” brass bar stock.  I used some 4” wide stock because I could cut the two bases out of one piece and have less waste that way.  Then I double-sticky-tapped them together, milled them square and to size, then drilled a set of holes in them:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/226a-HeadlightBase-1-DSC_4827.jpg)

Here are the completed bases:  (anyone else thinking “All your bases are belong to us!” about now?  :Lol:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/226a-HeadlightBase-2-DSC_4830.jpg)

And here they are in their assigned place, under the headlights.  The round head screws are just temporarily holding the bases in place.  In the end, the screws will be mounted through the headlight holder, through the base, and into the main body of the headlight.  The back hole (the one with no screw in it) is for the wire to power the headlight.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/226a-HeadlightBase-3-DSC_4833.jpg)

That’s the extent of my progress, such as it is.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 22, 2023, 10:04:14 PM
The lights are looking great!  You probably mentioned it but I forget - will the wires for the led's come up through the bases?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 22, 2023, 10:10:18 PM
Yes, that's the open hole in that last picture.

I'm still not completely sure how to run the wires out to the lights.  Kozo doesn't really give any detail on that area that I could find.  I think I see where the wire runs in a few spots in some of the pictures, but it's a strange oversite for him.  He's usually so thorough on everything.  Maybe it's there and I just can't find it now?

Ah well, I can be creative!  ;)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on August 23, 2023, 12:42:37 AM
Looking great, Kim.  Glad to hear that you continue to mend well.

“All your bases are belong to us!”   :lolb:  Yup.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 23, 2023, 12:57:10 AM
Yes, that's the open hole in that last picture.

I'm still not completely sure how to run the wires out to the lights.  Kozo doesn't really give any detail on that area that I could find.  I think I see where the wire runs in a few spots in some of the pictures, but it's a strange oversite for him.  He's usually so thorough on everything.  Maybe it's there and I just can't find it now?

Ah well, I can be creative!  ;)

Kim


Paragraph  26.5 says the wiring details are in the section on the  cab. But, only thing there is figure 32-14 which show the wire running to each light, ground through the metal loco so just one wire. No detail on where to hide it. As you said, thats unusual for  Kozo.  These days everything is  wireless...  :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 23, 2023, 01:17:05 AM
Hollow handrails maybe, for wire routing? Lots of full size steam locomotives used pipe as handrails and the electric wiring was run inside. The wires would last a lot longer run thru handrails than if they were run in the fire tubes.  :o  :zap:  :Lol: Cheers Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2023, 05:23:30 AM
Looking great, Kim.  Glad to hear that you continue to mend well.

“All your bases are belong to us!”   :lolb:  Yup.

Todd
Thanks Todd!  Didn't know if anyone else would get that reference  :Lol:

Paragraph  26.5 says the wiring details are in the section on the  cab. But, only thing there is figure 32-14 which show the wire running to each light, ground through the metal loco so just one wire. No detail on where to hide it. As you said, thats unusual for  Kozo.  These days everything is  wireless...  :shrug:
Yeah, that's what I found too, Chris...

Hollow handrails maybe, for wire routing? Lots of full size steam locomotives used pipe as handrails and the electric wiring was run inside. The wires would last a lot longer run thru handrails than if they were run in the fire tubes.  :o  :zap:  :Lol: Cheers Kim!
Interesting idea, Jeff... The hand rails are fairly small to begin with - 3/32".  I'll have to check and see if I can get 3/32" OD tubing with 1/64" walls in stainless.  Wonder if K&S has stainless in addition to brass?  Hmm... I may have to check that out.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 23, 2023, 07:43:19 AM
Some of the thinnest fully insulated wire I can think of, is made for an (now obsolete) tech, called Wire-Wrap :
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/wire-wrap/470 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/wire-wrap/470)
Not cheap anymore + probably way too much on a spool ....

Nice Lanterns Kim  :)   :ThumbsUp:

Per   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on August 23, 2023, 12:52:23 PM
One possibility for thin 3/32" stainless tube is hypodermic syringe tubing. 14 gauge cannula tube in 304 stainless is .083" OD and .067" ID, as I recall. This would fit in .093" holes with a bit of clearance. Vita Needle and Eagle Tubing were a couple of makers of this type of tube in the USA a few years ago. I learned about these tubes when doing some day job projects using the tube for glue dispensing. Lots and lots of sizes of small tubes, some really tiny.

I have seen 1/8 OD stainless tube in a K&S display but not sure they have 3/32 OD in stainless. They do have aluminum tube in 3/32 OD x .014" wall, I saw some a few weeks ago at the local hobby place.

Just food for thought. Tube B or not tube B, as someone famous once said.  :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 23, 2023, 04:03:47 PM
Hi Kim. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to just run the wire back under the boiler jacket? Of course a suitably high-temp tolerant wire would be needed. Or perhaps straight down and either through or around the "deadweight", exiting to run back outside the boiler jacket but along the bottom, where it would be nearly out of sight.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on August 23, 2023, 04:14:07 PM
I just noticed something in Kozo's photos. In photos showing the right side, there is a "pipe" running down the smokebox from just behind the headlight to the level of the running board, then turing 90 degrees to run back to the cab. Photos of the left side don't show this, nor do any of the drawings as far as I can tell. I think that must be Kozo's wire, camouflaged.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2023, 05:01:53 PM
Thanks for the helpful pointers on potential stainless tube and other suggestions on wire routing possibilties.

Just food for thought. Tube B or not tube B, as someone famous once said.  :Lol:  :cheers:
Groan... (but very clever!)

I just noticed something in Kozo's photos. In photos showing the right side, there is a "pipe" running down the smokebox from just behind the headlight to the level of the running board, then turning 90 degrees to run back to the cab. Photos of the left side don't show this, nor do any of the drawings as far as I can tell. I think that must be Kozo's wire, camouflaged.
Yes, Ron, I saw that too, and that's exactly what I was thinking.  I'll likely do something like that too. If it's good enough for Kozo, it's good enough for me!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on August 23, 2023, 07:26:35 PM
If you only plan on running the LED headlights with these wires you can get by using 30awg wire.  Since this is next to the boiler I would recommend using wire with a silicone jacket as this jacket material will handle the higher temperatures.  The 30awg wire is rated at a 0.8A load, that's 800mA.  The load from your LED''s should only be a fraction of that, maybe 30-50mA.  (Depends on how bright you want the headlight to be.) 

This stuff is available on Ebay or Amazon, 100 foot spools will cost you about $20USD each and are available in six colors.
https://www.amazon.com/Fermerry-Silicone-Electric-Electronic-Tinned/dp/B089D16BX1?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Fermerry-Silicone-Electric-Electronic-Tinned/dp/B089D16BX1?th=1)

The nominal OD of 30awg silicone wire is 0.8mm, which should easily fit through the K&S 3/32" OD tubing you mentioned since that would have a 1/16" ID, or about 1.6mm.  I don't think K&S has 3/32" stainless tubing - they don't list it on their website, but I know they've got brass and aluminum.  3/32" SS tubing is available from specialty tubing suppliers, but expect to wait a while and pay through the nose to get it.

Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 23, 2023, 11:17:07 PM
Thanks Don,

I happen to have a good amount of that 30ga wire-wrap wire.  I used to do a lot of wire-wrapping back when I was in high school and college.  Not so much anymore though.  I'm not sure you can even get wirewrap sockets these days. (Quick amazon search - well, clearly you can! Who knew?) Regardless, I've got some if I choose to go that way.

I've thought about it some and I'm not really sure how much good running it through the handrails would do me.  I have to first get the wire to the handrail and then figure out how to get the wire up through one of the stanchions and into the tube.  Then I have to get it from the back end of the rail to the battery.  So lots of wire routing to do in any case.

I may just add an extra piece of small brass tubing and run a wire through that.  But the tube will just run along the boiler where I need/want it to.  I'll just paint it black and it will look pretty official.  Like Kozo's picture :)

Or, that's my current thinking, which is, of course, subject to change up until the time I implement something.  So I've got some time to think about it!

Thanks for the suggestions!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on August 23, 2023, 11:25:58 PM
Another  thought - use a piece of thin rod, or a length of thin wire for a faux pipe, and cover it with some black heat shrink tube. That will insulate it, then just need to run wire at the ends?   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on August 24, 2023, 01:21:15 AM
Where is the electricity coming from?   A battery - in the cab or in the tender? 
Here's an "inside the box" idea - put it all in the light - i.e. a battery, switch and the LED all inside the light enclosure.  No external wires to worry about.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 24, 2023, 05:03:43 AM
Thanks Mike and Chris, more good ideas!  ;D

So much food for thought...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on August 27, 2023, 10:09:38 AM
Glad your ankle is improving  :ThumbsUp:

I'm sure you will find a good solution to the headlights  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on August 27, 2023, 03:34:05 PM
If you look at the cover picture of the book, you'll see a pipe attached to the side of the smokebox just behind the headlight and descending to the walkway.  I think the wire passes through this and then under the walkway to the air tank/battery.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on August 27, 2023, 04:33:39 PM
Thanks Roger and Kvom,  :cheers:

If you look at the cover picture of the book, you'll see a pipe attached to the side of the smokebox just behind the headlight and descending to the walkway.  I think the wire passes through this and then under the walkway to the air tank/battery.
Yes, I think you are quite correct.  And this is my 'current' plan.  Who knows what it will be when I finally get to implementing it!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 06, 2023, 11:37:24 PM
The last month hasn’t been the most prolific for me in the shop.  I’d mentioned that I was selling our 5th wheel and my tow vehicle (a big F350 dually) and was planning on purchasing an electric vehicle for our second car.  Well, that whole rigmarole had been completed.  Sold the trailer, sold the truck, and have now purchased a new EV.

With some trepidation, I ended up getting a Tesla Model Y.   The Teslas are right up there with the best EVs on the market and the most features for the money (especially with the recent price cuts).  My trepidation is more based on the theatrics of the CEO than anything to do with the car. But I decided that if I based all my purchasing decisions on whether I the president of a company was kind of a knucklehead or not, I might not own anything  ::). So, setting that aside, the Tesla is a super fun car to drive!  And gets the best range and economy of any EV I looked at. It comes with the best charging network around and the car includes all the features for one price (except for the full self-driving, which is QUITE expensive but can be purchased at any time and you get the feature with a software download).  I loved the direct purchase model too.  No haggling with the dealership on the price or the trade-in – or dealing with a salesperson.  There’s one set price. If you want it, you buy it. The person helping me with the test drive was no pressure and was willing to work with me on my timeline, including multiple test drives over several weeks and I always got to drive the car on my own, with no salesperson.  That was wonderful. I can honestly say I’ve NEVER had a better car-buying experience with any car I’ve ever owned.  And I’m super pleased with it so far (and it’s been all of a week). And did I mention?  It’s really fun to drive!  ;D :cartwheel:  :Love:

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Today I started on the Glass Holders for the headlights.  These inserts will go in the headlight housing and hold provide a bezel for the glass.  They were made from 1 1/4" brass rod.  This was an intermediate turning exercise since it involved boring with inside and outside flanges (on opposite sides).

I started by turning it to the largest diameter with my tangential tool then switched to a grooving tool (a parting blade that I’ve ground flat on the end) to turn the rest of the outer dimensions.  While I had the grooving tool setup and dialed in, I made a shallow groove indicating where I wanted to part it off eventually.  But not yet!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227a-HeadlightGlassHolder-1-DSC_4835.jpg)

Next, I step drilled a center hole up to 7/8” and then used a boring bar to widen it out to the smallest through dimension of 0.906”.  Finally, I opened the main hole up to 0.945” leaving a 3/64” lip on the inside edge.  This will hold the glass in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227a-HeadlightGlassHolder-2-DSC_4838.jpg)

After parting off, here’s the completed glass holder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227a-HeadlightGlassHolder-3-DSC_4841.jpg)

Here it is inserted into the headlight housing.  That’s going to loop pretty neat, I think!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227a-HeadlightGlassHolder-4-DSC_4846.jpg)

Now, I just have to make one more of these then I can move on to the headlight reflector.

Thanks for looking in!
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 06, 2023, 11:44:00 PM
The car sounds like fun, and the lantern looks fantastic!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 07, 2023, 12:13:11 AM
Hi Kim, congrats on the new car!
Good to see some progress on the loco too!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 07, 2023, 01:54:40 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Good to hear you are able to get back on the switcher. Be sure to give us the highlights!  :Lol: (sorry, worst pun ever)

As to the making decisions about car purchasing based on CEO having a low knucklehead factor - I think the last time that might have worked, Studebakers and Packards mighta been on the candidate list! Just kiddin around, hope you enjoy your Musk-Mobile.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2023, 05:04:39 AM
Thanks, Chris, Dave, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on September 07, 2023, 05:23:08 AM
I've been delaying my own purchase of a new car for the exact same reason. That, and I'm not too sure how I will like everything being controlled by a computer screen. I guess I need to test drive it like you did.

The model is coming along great! Looks really good.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2023, 03:22:01 PM
I've been delaying my own purchase of a new car for the exact same reason. That, and I'm not too sure how I will like everything being controlled by a computer screen. I guess I need to test drive it like you did.

The model is coming along great! Looks really good.
That was my biggest concern too.  But I talked with several people who own one and they told me it took a few weeks to get used to, but after that, a non-issue.  But isn't that the case with any new car? It takes a while to get used to where the controls are - the lights are on this side, not that side, the wipers are on the left stalk, no the right stalk, etc...   To date, I haven't found it to be an issue. Even my wife seems to be handling it well :)

I watched a bunch of YouTube videos, then drove one, and I was a convert.  As I said, the Tesla has more stock features than any other EV, and has better range and milage than any other similarly priced EV.  They seem to be years ahead of the competition.  I'm sure that gap will go down over time, but that's what I found right now anyway. And the sealer on the deal is the reliability of their extensive charging network.

Yeah, I do recommend scheduling a test drive. I found it to be an overall pleasant experience.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 07, 2023, 04:06:08 PM
I recently rode in a Tesla for the first time when I took the "tour" of the underground tunnels Musk's company is boring under Las Vegas.  So far the system goes only between Resorts World and the LV Convention Center, so a 15-minute ride.  Back seat was tight.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2023, 04:07:01 PM
Kim, I hope you are hiding the keys well so the shop elves don't go out for Ludicrous Mode test drives...  :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on September 07, 2023, 05:42:24 PM
Better that he puts a Denver Boot on it, I've heard the elves don't need no stinkin keys.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2023, 10:25:58 PM
I recently rode in a Tesla for the first time when I took the "tour" of the underground tunnels Musk's company is boring under Las Vegas.  So far the system goes only between Resorts World and the LV Convention Center, so a 15-minute ride.  Back seat was tight.
That sounds like an interesting tour!  Wonder what Tesla you rode in? I've found the Model Y to have a fairly spacious back seat, especially given that there is no 'hump' between the two sides - the floor is completely flat.  But then, I'm not all that tall so that could make a difference.  I know they sell some models with 3 rows of seats and the 3rd row is particularly cramped - only practically usable for small children.  But that's likely not where you rode :)

Kim, I hope you are hiding the keys well so the shop elves don't go out for Ludicrous Mode test drives...  :Jester:
The joke will be on them!  I didn't fork over the extra $$ for the performance upgrade.  :ROFL:
But I can tell you that the 'standard' mode has WAY plenty of performance for me!
Plus, no keys!  Your phone is your key!

Better that he puts a Denver Boot on it, I've heard the elves don't need no stinkin keys.
Good idea!  I'll see if I can pick up a boot on Amazon  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 07, 2023, 10:34:38 PM
Progress today was completing the second glass holder for the headlight so they are both done.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227b-HeadlightGlassHolder-1-DSC_4848.jpg)

And I carefully touched up the round glass I’d made a while back so that it would fit appropriately inside the glass holder.  This was simply a process of grinding the glass around the edge, very carefully and slowly, until it would fit inside the glass holders.  You can tell this picture is different from the last by looking at the little chips in the glass around the outside edge.  In real life, the glass doesn’t look quite that bad.  I think it’ll be acceptable.  If not, I’ll have to figure out something else for the glass.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/227b-HeadlightGlassHolder-2-DSC_4851.jpg)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 07, 2023, 10:46:27 PM
Lanterns  are great!


Do they make leds in flame shapes?  A dab of clear silicone on top to make it flame shaped with a dab of orange paint, maybe?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2023, 05:02:08 AM
Hmm... I got a bunch of LEDs and was planning on using the ones labeled :cartwheel: warm white.  That's about the only nod to authenticity I'm planning.  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on September 08, 2023, 01:32:50 PM
LED tea lights are cheap and self powered.  You can buy them as a "warm" light source and they flicker as well. With a bit of work you can adapt them for model use.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2023, 06:11:00 PM
A tea light... that's an interesting idea!   Wonder how they make them flicker?  Must be some simple trick because those things are not incredibly expensive...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tghs on September 08, 2023, 06:40:10 PM
I have purchased from this place for lights for R/C boats and other models,, they have about everything you could need in LEDs
https://evandesigns.com/
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2023, 06:53:52 PM
Thanks thgs! I'll give them a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on September 08, 2023, 08:39:25 PM
A tea light... that's an interesting idea!   Wonder how they make them flicker?  Must be some simple trick because those things are not incredibly expensive...

https://hackaday.com/2013/12/16/reverse-engineering-a-candle-flicker-led/

Yeah, the bare LED's are cheap.  I have a lifetime supply box of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0785G1SBP

With today's LED's, you can go from fiendishly bright to a subtle low-level flickery glow in any color. Depends what you want any how you will use them.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2023, 10:31:02 PM
A tea light... that's an interesting idea!   Wonder how they make them flicker?  Must be some simple trick because those things are not incredibly expensive...

https://hackaday.com/2013/12/16/reverse-engineering-a-candle-flicker-led/

Yeah, the bare LED's are cheap.  I have a lifetime supply box of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0785G1SBP

With today's LED's, you can go from fiendishly bright to a subtle low-level flickery glow in any color. Depends what you want any how you will use them.
Wow! That is quite fascinating!  Things you never knew...

Well, as you'll see in my next post, I went quite old school.  And yes, I have a lifetime supply of LEDs too, in many fancy colors!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 08, 2023, 10:37:40 PM
Today was supposed to be Headlight Reflector Day.  Unfortunately, a few days ago when I was looking forward to this part, I couldn’t find the aluminum round bar I’d spec’d.  I needed a 1 1/4" round bar but the closest I could find was 1 1/8” diameter, which is just a tad too small.  I’m kinda thinking that I mistakenly ordered the 1 1/8” dia rather than the 1 1/4" that I had actually specified.  That, or I used the 1 1/4" bar for something else, though I can’t imagine what…

When I discovered this, I ordered a hunk of aluminum from Amazon.  Not always the best price, but I was supposed to get it today, which was what I was hoping.  However, it hadn’t arrived as of shop time, so I did something else today.  In fact, it hasn’t arrived yet after shop time either, so it was good that I didn’t sit around and wait for it!

Instead of working on the reflector, I decided to work on my LED light source.  I dug out the pile of LEDs I’d purchased and started playing around.  The warm white LEDs I plan to use say they have a voltage drop of 3-3.2v which means I can’t power them off of a single alkaline C cell like Kozo does.

My solution for this is to use one of those round three AAA battery holders like come in those small LED flashlights.  They stack the three AAA batteries in series to give you 4.5V which should be plenty to drive my LED. I have several of those cheap (probably free) Harbor Freight LED flashlights so I stole one of the battery holders from them for my use here. 

LEDs tend to want 10ma of current or so but that usually makes them quite bright, and I don't really want that.  I want the light to be visible but not overly bright which will also reduce battery usage.  So, rather than just calculating the value of the current liming resistor I did some experiments to see how bright it would be with various values of resistance.  I found 330 ohms gave me a nice brightish light, but not TOO bright, which worked out to be about 5-6 ma.  Interestingly, the LED only dropped about 2.7-2.8V, not the 3.0-3.2V that was listed.

I want to package up the current limiting resistor in the headlamp with the LED so I soldered the resistor to one of the legs of the LED and covered it in a bit of heat shrink. The lower one shows the resistor attached and the upper one shows the heat shrink in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/228a-HeadlightLightsource-1-DSC_4854.jpg)

Then of course, I had to try them out to make sure I didn’t burn up the LED with my ham-fisted soldering.  Nicely, they both worked!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/228a-HeadlightLightsource-2-DSC_4863.jpg)

My current plan is to run 3/32” brass tubing from the headlamp to the battery compartment with some 30GA wire-wrap wire for the conductor.

Hopefully tomorrow I’ll have the aluminum for the reflectors!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 08, 2023, 10:44:34 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 09, 2023, 09:10:59 AM
Looks like a good solution Kim  :ThumbsUp:

LED's do not have a constant voltage across them (though they kind of do).
In the Datasheet you often see a plot of Voltage vs Current (not linear) - and here you will see a lover Voltage when you lower the Current ....

Enjoying that you are back in the shop, making parts and shareing the Journey with us  :praise2:

Per       :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 10, 2023, 02:46:48 PM
Simple is very often best  :)  :ThumbsUp: Looking forward to the finished headlamps  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on September 10, 2023, 03:17:46 PM

LED's do not have a constant voltage across them (though they kind of do).
In the Datasheet you often see a plot of Voltage vs Current (not linear) - and here you will see a lover Voltage when you lower the Current ....


Yep: The 3.0-3.2v drop is likely at max current (usually 20mA or thereabouts); so lower current = lower voltage drop. Which is one reason why a current limiting resistor is generally not recommended except for very simple circuits (this counts!). Although I'll be honest, I almost always use a resistor rather than forking out for an actual LED driver chip.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 10, 2023, 05:17:10 PM
Jeff, Per, Roger, and Ade!
Thanks for the comments! Yeah, the simple current limiting resistor seemed like the way to go here.  I'm not overly concerned about keeping the maximum current through the LED.  I don't care if it fluctuates with battery level.

I did consider a 1.5v to 5v DC to DC step-up converter but it just didn't seem worth the trouble, especially after I came up with the cheap 3x battery holder idea :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 11, 2023, 10:24:31 PM
Chapter 26.3 – Reflectors

Over the last couple of shop sessions, I started work on the reflectors.  These will hold the light source and provide a reflector around them to help focus the light.  They also hold the glass up against the glass retainer/bezel.

I made the reflector from 6061 aluminum (as specified by Kozo). This should take a nice finish and make a great shiny reflector for the headlight.  I used a 1 1/4" round rod.  The 12” bar I ordered arrived on Saturday, which is when I started this process.

First I cut the basic outside shape.  The smaller diameter in front will fit inside of the glass retainer, and the larger diameter sides inside the headlight housing (behind the retainer).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-1-DSC_4867.jpg)

To carve the actual reflector part, I made a step-off table.  I chose not to bother making a parabolic shape since it would be much harder to figure out, plus it probably wouldn’t make that much difference in the usability of the headlight.  This is the third revision of my setp-off table as I will discuss later in this post.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-2-DSC_4882.jpg)

I have a 9/16” ball nose end mill that I wanted to use to make the reflector.  However, the required diameter of the actual reflector is much greater than 9/16”.  Thus, the step-off table. To get my end mill centered properly on the lathe I started by using the tail stock to drill a 9/16” hole in the part.  Not too deep, so that I wouldn’t accidentally mess up my cool reflector shape, but deep enough that I could use the hole to register the mill in.

While this sounded simple, it turned out to be harder than I’d expected.  The mill is a 2 flute, so it’s hard to center in both directions at the same time. I was going to use the back side of the mill bit to do this, but unfortunately, it had a 1/2” shank! Luckily, I had a 9/16” drill bit with a 1/2" shank also. So I used that bit in the holder to center things up as best I could, then swapped the drill for the end mill. This turned out to work just fine. At least for the accuracy I needed anyway! First problem solved.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-3-DSC_4870.jpg)

However, because I’d drilled that hole, I couldn’t just register the end of the mill with the end of the part – I had to use a shim between them.  So I set the Z-axis against the shim, then moved it in by the thickness of my shim.  Next problem soved.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-4-DSC_4873.jpg)

Now, carefully following my step-off table I shaped the reflector. I was quite pleased with the finish the ball nose was leaving! Just a little polishing would get me there!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-5-DSC_4876.jpg)

Then I realized that the reflector wasn’t nearly large enough.  It should have filled most of the end of the piece.  But clearly, it didn’t.  I went back to my spreadsheet and reviewed my calculations.  Clearly, I’d made a mistake.  But I found it, fixed it, and printed off another table.  Back to the lathe.

That one, while closer, but the reflector was still way too small.

So I spent a couple of hours pouring over my spreadsheet trying to figure out what I’d done wrong. I kept coming up with the same values I had no matter what I did.

This wasn’t difficult math, but it wasn’t trivial.  It’s simplified by just going with a circular reflector rather than a parabola.  For one thing, the center of the circle shape for the reflector surface is outside of the part (the first mistake I made).  But the more difficult part was that using a ball nose means that the point the cutter will contact the surface of the curve changes as you move up or down the curve, as demonstrated by my feeble picture here.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-BallNoseEndMill.jpg)

I was using some trig to get there, but my trig seemed to be correct. Why did the reflector come out so small still?

Then it finally hit me…  my DRO reads out in diameter, not radius!  Duh!  So I fixed that, printed out Yet Another Table (now up to version 3) and tried it again. (Yes, I know I could change the DRO to read out in radius, but then I'd forget to set it back to diameter and get totally confused later!)

This time, success! (Next problem resolved! Yay!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229a-HeadlightReflector-6-DSC_4878.jpg)

It only took a little polishing with some fine grit and steel wool to get a nice shine.

Now I just have to finish it. Oh yeah… and do the second one!  But now that I’ve got my problems worked out, that should be easy, right?  :lolb:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 11, 2023, 10:39:52 PM
Impressive  result!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 11, 2023, 11:12:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 11, 2023, 11:59:29 PM
It's always a relief when mistakes result in removing too little material, rather than too much! I only rarely get that lucky...
End result looks really great. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 12, 2023, 12:15:54 AM
That turned out real nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on September 12, 2023, 01:47:42 AM
Nicely done.
I've sometimes cheated and let the computer do the math work for me -  I made the G code by drafting up the simple geometry, and using the CAM part of the software to develop the tool path, then I just printed out the x and z values.
This works best if your software converts all the moves to straight lines and not arcs. 
You can pretend you are the CNC machine and make stepper motor sounds while twisting the handles! 

All that said,  I still messed that up enough times too! (wrong tool size, etc., etc.)  :hammerbash:

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on September 12, 2023, 03:53:03 AM
When I get sideways with Trig I just tell everyone I only minored in math! :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2023, 05:23:24 AM
Thanks, everybody!  :cheers:

Yeah, it was nice that my errors :Love: were all removing too little material rather than too much :)  It reminded me of Jeff's tag line: "I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 12, 2023, 11:34:41 AM
 :Lol: :cheers: I think it might have been Sean Connery who said in a movie "don't bring a radius to a diameter fight"  :shrug:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2023, 04:38:10 PM
:Lol: :cheers: I think it might have been Sean Connery who said in a movie "don't bring a radius to a diameter fight"  :shrug:
:lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 16, 2023, 11:01:34 PM
Finishing up the headlight reflectors:

I held the smaller end of the part in a close(ish) fitting collet (61/64th), which worked well enough for this operation. These holes don’t really have to be concentric to the rest of the part.  They are just there to make room for the wiring, and in my case, the current limiting resistor.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-1-DSC_4885.jpg)

Then I countersunk the LED hole a bit from the backside to make room for the flange on the base of the LED.  This isn’t in Kozo’s plans, but then, I’m using an LED, and I want to make it so the LED doesn’t slide all the way through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-2-DSC_4888.jpg)

Then over to the mill where I put a groove down the back side to provide the wires access to the pass-through hole in the base.  I did both reflectors back to back here.  This notch now defines the ‘bottom’ of each of the reflectors.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-3-DSC_4891.jpg)

Next, I drilled a hole on the top side for a set screw to hold the LED in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-4-DSC_4894.jpg)

And tapped it 5-40.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-5-DSC_4897.jpg)

This now completes the headlight reflectors.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-6-DSC_4901.jpg)

After assembly, here’s what they look like.  I’m pretty happy with them!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-7-DSC_4903.jpg)

Then I mounted one on the front of the engine.  The other will go on the tender, but I won’t add that till after it’s painted.  I’ll have to take off here to paint too, of course, but I’ve got a lot of disassembly to do on the engine whenever I decide to do the next round of painting :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/229b-HeadlightReflector-8-DSC_4905.jpg)

Thanks for following my progress and for all your help along the way!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Owen Gabbie on September 17, 2023, 03:29:56 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on September 17, 2023, 05:32:45 AM
Looks great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 17, 2023, 06:34:17 AM
Thanks Owen and Krypto!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 17, 2023, 02:40:13 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The A3's looking great Kim! Headlight looks excellent on the boiler.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 17, 2023, 04:11:00 PM
Thank you Jeff!  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 17, 2023, 07:17:19 PM
The headlight looks very good. Will there soon be a picture with LED and at night?

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 17, 2023, 07:20:26 PM
The headlight looks very good. Will there soon be a picture with LED and at night?

Michael
Thanks Michael!
Interesting question... I'll have to give that a try!   :thinking:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 17, 2023, 10:32:24 PM
Awesome results Kim…… :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2023, 10:56:08 PM
Thank you Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 21, 2023, 11:15:22 PM
Chapter 27.1 – Boiler Jacket

This week I’m moving on to the next section which covers the Boiler Jacket and the Handrails.  And first up, is the Boiler Jacket. This, as the name implies, is a covering around the boiler to help minimize heat loss.  In real life, this would cover additional lagging around the boiler.  But in order to maximize the volume of the boiler, Kozo chose to skip any lagging and just go with the thin, mostly decorative, jacket.

I started by making a paper template of the boiler jacket. To be clear, this wasn’t because I doubted Kozo’s dimensions for the jacket, but rather, I worried that my boiler was out of dimension here or there and might require some customization.

After laying it out on a B-size sheet, I cut out the paper jacket with an X-Acto knife.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-01-DSC_4912.jpg)

And fitted it up to the boiler.  Turns out, all the holes line up as specified.  Maybe I did a better job on the boiler than I thought!  O:-) There will be a little customizing of the hole around the steam dome due to my overly generous solder application.  But I don’t want to even touch that area for fear of inducing a leak in my boiler  :o
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-02-DSC_4917.jpg)

Having confirmed the design, I then cut a piece of 0.016” thick brass sheet (basically, 1/64”).  Kozo specifies 0.012" sheet for the jacket but the thinnest I could source was the 1/64", so that's what I used.  I roughed it out using a shear.  Normally I’ve been using the bandsaw to cut sheet stock since the shear can deform the edges of the sheet.  But this sheet was so thin I thought I could get away with the shear, which seems to have been the case.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-03-DSC_4927.jpg)

Then I used the 2” belt grinder rotated on to its side to clean up the long edges of the cut and take it to the actual required size.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-04-DSC_4930.jpg)

Then I laid out the features for the boiler jacket on the brass and used an optical center finder to find and mark all of the required holes.                                                                                                                                                                                                         
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-05-KIM_1992.jpg)

I tackled the big holes first by using a circle cutter that is normally used for wood.  This actually worked quite well.  I kept the speed very low for this operation (like 150ish RMP).  You can see the donut that was cut out of the center of the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-06-KIM_1994.jpg)

Then I drilled all the other holes.  I used a step drill for the 3/8” holes.  These were for clearance around the water inlets at the front of the boiler, and to make the rounded part of the back cut out as seen here:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-07-KIM_1997.jpg)

Using a variety of tools (tinsnips, nibbler, and files) I cut the outside to shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-08-KIM_2001.jpg)

And then bent the clamping edges over.  Kozo gives a double thickness for the clamping flanges for added strength.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-09-KIM_2003.jpg)

After the initial bend with the break, I used pliers to fold the edges over more and then a brass hammer to make a nice tight fold along the edge.  Note that the center section between the two clamping tabs also has a folded edge.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230a-BoilerJacket-10-KIM_2006.jpg)

I was going to finish this today but other things came up so I’ll complete it next time.  Still to go are drilling the holes for the clamping screws, making the final bend for the clamping surfaces. And of course, the final fitting around the boiler!

Thanks for taking a look,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 22, 2023, 03:51:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Sheetmetal's looking great!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ShopShoe on September 22, 2023, 01:52:09 PM
(Off-Topic Query)

Kim,

Can you tell more about your nibbler?  It looks similar to the old "Adel" nibbler beloved of electronics hobbyists decades ago and now seems to be NLA. I sure would like to get a decent hand nibbler nowadays.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ddmckee54 on September 22, 2023, 04:47:11 PM
Shopshoe:

Not sure if it's "decent" or not, but what about this one?
https://us.rs-online.com/product/gc-electronics/12-1806/70159767/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9rSoBhCiARIsAFOiplkZPUCMm6e0G3iP9Epr3pQSFmVwfDas7v2PQxfaap2PFB3liQ-IzZgaAlhiEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://us.rs-online.com/product/gc-electronics/12-1806/70159767/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9rSoBhCiARIsAFOiplkZPUCMm6e0G3iP9Epr3pQSFmVwfDas7v2PQxfaap2PFB3liQ-IzZgaAlhiEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2023, 04:50:08 PM
Great progress  Kim!   
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

Shopshoe, as for the nibbler, the one Don posted looks as good or better than the one I have. I also see them listed on Amazon for a similar price range.  Looks like the same thing is available from multiple vendors, but here's one of them: https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Nickel-Plated-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/ (https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Nickel-Plated-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/)

The nibblers aren't overly accurate, but sometimes it's the simplest tool for the job!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 23, 2023, 12:22:02 PM
I've had three of the nibblers like the ones you and Don posted Kim, and they do a great job in aluminum and brass. In steel though, they will only cut very thin sheet. (They don't work all that well in gasket materials either, just FYI) I bought my first one in the early 1980's from Radio Shack for $3.99 as I recall. Two have broken, but not the hard working cutting parts you might expect to break - the return springs broke on the first and second ones I bought and the pivot pin broke on one. I fixed the broken ones, not hard to do, and they have been passed on to friends who are still using them as far as I know, on aluminum boxes for electronics projects. Still use the third one periodically. Surprisingly good tools for relatively little money. They sure beat chain drilling and hand filing out rectangular holes in panels!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: ShopShoe on September 23, 2023, 01:51:58 PM
(OT continued on Nibblers)

Thank You ddmckee54, Kim, and cnr6400.

I have two of the style you have posted and even though they are purchased from different sources I have had problems with them. Chiefly the limitation to thin metal only, the inability to do well with steel and problems with cutting non-metal soft materials. I use them because I have seen no other options, but I am seeking something better.

BTW, I tried reconditioning the cutting edges of one of my decades-old ones and it worked once, but not twice.

Thanks again.  If I find something else, I'll post.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 23, 2023, 10:57:33 PM
Before I bent the mounting tabs I annealed the brass.  Don’t know if this was strictly necessary, but I didn’t want the brass to crack and break during the bend, so I did it.  It did cause it to wap a bit, but I was still able to bend the tabs just fine.  I first tried using my little break but found that the vice and hammer worked better.  I used the piece of wood to help insulate the brass from my soft hammer, which seemed to work out OK.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230b-BoilerJacket-1-KIM_2009.jpg)

Then I silver soldered the double-layered tabs together.  Kozo recommends soft soldering these and I’m sure it’s to keep the heat lower and help prevent warpage of the thin sheet.  And as you can see, I did get some warpage here.  But I chose to deal with that and use silver solder since I plan to powder coat this part.  And I’m afraid that the powder coating process would melt the soft solder, which seems less than ideal.  So, silver solder it was.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230b-BoilerJacket-2-KIM_2012.jpg)

After cooling and a  pickle bath, the jacket was ready to make round.  I chose to wrap it around my ‘near’ boiler sized 3.5” pipe I’ve been using as a mandrel for boiler related things.  That worked OK, but the sections of the jacket that had holes bent more than the parts that didn’t.  I should have expected that but I hoped that since it was annealed it would bend more uniformly.  It didn’t.  So, I spent some time working out the odd bends.

Then I clamped the tabs together, marked the places for the clamping screws, and drilled the holes with a cordless drill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230b-BoilerJacket-3-KIM_2015.jpg)

Here is a shot of the completed boiler jacket.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230b-BoilerJacket-4-KIM_2018.jpg)

Finally, I needed to fit it to the boiler itself.  That went pretty well.  I had to ream the holes around the water inlets up one step to 7/16” (from 3/8”) just to get the jacket to go over the inlet studs.  Not sure how Kozo got the 3/8” holes to fit.  I sure couldn’t.  I also reamed the steam dome hole a tad here and there using a deburring tool.  I’m sure I’ll need to ream out the small holes for the handrails too, but I decided to leave that till I get to that point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/230b-BoilerJacket-5-KIM_2021.jpg)

All in all, I think it looks pretty good!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on September 23, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
That really dresses it up!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on September 24, 2023, 12:31:49 AM
Nicely done Kim, the jacket looks great!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2023, 05:26:51 AM
Thanks Chris and Dave!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 24, 2023, 12:28:25 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on September 24, 2023, 02:24:16 PM
Not sure how Kozo got the 3/8” holes to fit.

I recall that I read somewhere that this engine was built to metric dimensions, and Kozo changed everything to imperial when writing for Live Steam. Makes sense, since it would be fairly complex to work in imperial dimensions in Japan.

In that case it is likely that a 10 mm hole was used instead of 3/8". Not a lot of difference, but might be enough.

In the book, Kozo makes reference to adjusting the design after the actual model was finished.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 24, 2023, 04:12:43 PM
Not sure how Kozo got the 3/8” holes to fit.

I recall that I read somewhere that this engine was built to metric dimensions, and Kozo changed everything to imperial when writing for Live Steam. Makes sense, since it would be fairly complex to work in imperial dimensions in Japan.

In that case it is likely that a 10 mm hole was used instead of 3/8". Not a lot of difference, but might be enough.

In the book, Kozo makes reference to adjusting the design after the actual model was finished.

Gene

Interesting.  I didn't realize this, though it does make sense!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on September 24, 2023, 07:32:04 PM
Kim, you dressed the boiler elegantly.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on September 25, 2023, 04:19:26 PM
That boiler jacket looks super-nice Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 25, 2023, 06:01:33 PM
Thank you Michael and Ron!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on September 26, 2023, 12:07:17 PM
And I’m afraid that the powder coating process would melt the soft solder, which seems less than ideal.

I notice that Quinn (Blondihacks) is planning to powder coat her tender body/tank, and she's soft soldered it.... so I guess, watch that space!

I've never done any powder coating, so can't advise I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on September 26, 2023, 12:15:50 PM
Powder coating temp is 400F.  One can certainly test the solder beforehand.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 26, 2023, 05:42:22 PM
And I’m afraid that the powder coating process would melt the soft solder, which seems less than ideal.

I notice that Quinn (Blondihacks) is planning to powder coat her tender body/tank, and she's soft soldered it.... so I guess, watch that space!

I've never done any powder coating, so can't advise I'm afraid.
Hmm... Thanks for pointing that out, Ade!

I soft soldered my tender tank AND powder coated it and I never experienced any problems. Guess I didn't remember that!  :embarrassed:
Didn't even think about the temperature issue at the time, but it worked regardless.  So, it probably would have been OK, based on my limited experience.

How silly of me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 26, 2023, 05:42:59 PM
Powder coating temp is 400F.  One can certainly test the solder beforehand.
And apparently I did test it and didn't even connect that fact  :Lol:
How silly of me, eh?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on September 26, 2023, 06:28:32 PM

Traditional 60/40 tin-lead solder starts to melt well below 400F. It would be pasty at first, but with little strength. The newer 95/5 tin-antimony solder does not melt until about 450F.

So there might be a bit of margin for the latter at 400F.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 26, 2023, 11:59:19 PM

Traditional 60/40 tin-lead solder starts to melt well below 400F. It would be pasty at first, but with little strength. The newer 95/5 tin-antimony solder does not melt until about 450F.

So there might be a bit of margin for the latter at 400F.

Gene
Yes, you're right Gene.  I'm certain that I don't have any lead solder.  All the solder I have is of the lead-free variety, which is probably why it worked!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2023, 12:11:40 AM
Chapter 27.2 – Straps

Today is Strap Day.  These are the brass straps that wrap around the boiler jacket to hold it in place.  However, on the model, they’re mostly decorative.  But they look pretty cool!

Just like with the boiler jacket, Kozo specifies the 0.012” brass sheet for the straps.   So, just like with the boiler jacket, I used 0.016” sheet! :)
For these thin strips (3/16” wide), I chose to slice them off with the bandsaw. I think cutting them on the shear I have would have them come out like a corkscrew!  So this seemed safest.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-01-KIM_2025.jpg)

To clean up the edges after the bandsaw, I used the belt sander in horizontal mode.  Sorry, I forgot to take a pic of that.  I had to be careful here since I only had 3/16” of metal to hold onto!

With two straps cut and trimmed to width, I proceeded to make the little angle brackets for the ends.  I used 1/16” sheet to make those.  I cut a length to 3/16” in width (just like the strap) and proceeded to bend the end into a 90o angle.  I did the same to both ends.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-02-KIM_2028.jpg)

Then I cut the ends off to make the little brackets.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-03-KIM_2031.jpg)

Since I needed four brackets, I did the above process twice.

Next, I took those four brackets and drilled holes in each end.  One hole was for a 1-72 thread to hold the bracket on the strap during soldering, and the other end was drilled for a #2-56 screw that will pull the two ends together around the boiler.  Here I’ve just finished drilling the hole to be threaded 1-72 in all four of them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-04-KIM_2034.jpg)

And then I drilled a 1-72 close-fit hole in each end of the straps for the solder-holding screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-05-KIM_2037.jpg)

After cleaning up all the parts, I fluxed the ends and screwed the brackets onto the straps for silver soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-06-KIM_2041.jpg)

Here’s the after-silver-soldering shot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-07-KIM_2044.jpg)

After a quick pickle, I removed the heads of the solder-hold-down screws. And here are the completed straps:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-08-KIM_2048.jpg)

Then I attached them to the boiler using 2-56 screws & nuts. Just a note about those two long screws; I used them to help get the boiler jacket in place.  When I reassemble it after painting I'll use shorter screws like the other spots :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-09-KIM_2051.jpg)

And a beauty shot of the engine with its new jacket and suspenders on, all ready for a night on the town!  The straps will be left bright brass so it should look quite striking after the boiler jacket is painted black.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/231a-BoilerStraps-10-KIM_2055.jpg)

Thanks for looking in on my (minimal) progress.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on September 27, 2023, 12:28:40 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on September 27, 2023, 12:42:24 AM
Hmm... Thanks for pointing that out, Ade!

I soft soldered my tender tank AND powder coated it and I never experienced any problems. Guess I didn't remember that!  :embarrassed:
Didn't even think about the temperature issue at the time, but it worked regardless.  So, it probably would have been OK, based on my limited experience.

How silly of me!


In fairness, Blondihacks may have used sodder - I'm pretty sure that's different stuff  :headscratch:  :Jester:

And no, it's not silly at all! Forgetfulness is something that comes with, erm, something or other. Why did I come into this room anyway?

[Sometimes, there's something I want to look up, and by the time I've got my phone out of my pocket, unlocked & opened the browser, I've already forgotten what it was.... Once, I lost a screwdriver I'd just been looking... I knew it was around somewhere, because I'd not moved away from where I was when I last used it... looked all over the bench.... found it in my left hand! True story!]
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 27, 2023, 07:45:48 AM
Great Family shot Kim - looks really good  :ThumbsUp:   :ThumbsUp:

Per     :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on September 28, 2023, 07:06:17 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2:

The locomotive is developing  :) You are heading towards the last 20% of the project that also takes 80% of the time  :thinking:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 28, 2023, 07:26:34 PM
Thanks Per and Roger!  :cheers:
You are heading towards the last 20% of the project that also takes 80% of the time  :thinking:
Ain't that the truth!  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on September 29, 2023, 12:45:42 AM

Actually, the boiler is 90% of the work. Everything else is the other 90%.

Does anything ever go as smoothly and rapidly as planned?  :LittleDevil:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on September 29, 2023, 02:58:03 AM
 :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2023, 05:08:00 AM

Actually, the boiler is 90% of the work. Everything else is the other 90%.

Does anything ever go as smoothly and rapidly as planned?  :LittleDevil:

Gene
:ROFL:
So true!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on September 29, 2023, 05:08:26 AM
Thank you Don!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 03, 2023, 10:33:41 PM
Chapter 27.3 – Handrail Brackets

This is a season of less shop time for me.  But even with many other things taking my time, I’m still getting a shop therapy session every once in a while  ;).  And over the past week, I’ve started to make progress on the Handrail Brackets for the boiler.

I’m making these brackets the same way I did the ones for the smokebox door.  If you want a refresher, that saga started in reply 3031 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg267815.html#msg267815) with making the form tool for the ball shape, but I didn’t get a good process down till reply 3055 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg268024.html#msg268024).  So I won’t go into too much detail here, but I did take pictures of the highlights.

The material used was 1/4" 303 stainless rod.  I started by making the ball using the form tool, with minimal stick out from the collet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232a-BoilerHandrails-1-KIM_2057.jpg)

After the ball was formed, I pulled more material out of the collet and made the basic outline of the part, then cut it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232a-BoilerHandrails-2-KIM_2059.jpg)

I did this six times.  Note that the bottom two are about 0.016” longer than the other four.  This is because those two will be mounted on the smoke box while the other four are mounted to the boiler.  And the ones on the boiler will be on top of the boiler jacket, making them 0.016” taller at the base.  I’m not sure how much difference that will really make, but Kozo calls out that height difference (well, he calls out 0.012” difference because his boiler jacket is thinner than mine.  ;))
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232a-BoilerHandrails-3-KIM_2062.jpg)

Next, I flipped them around in a 3/16” collet, cut the base down to 0.099”, and threaded it 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232a-BoilerHandrails-4-KIM_2065.jpg)

With that done to all six, I screwed the threaded end into a little 3-48 mandrel that I'd made and started putting in the taper between the base and the ball.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232a-BoilerHandrails-5-KIM_2068.jpg)

I’ve got a couple of those done now - the two longer ones - but still have the four shorter ones to go.  And I’ll need to drill a 3/32” hole in the ball for the handrail to go through.

But this was where things ended today.
Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 03, 2023, 10:42:15 PM
Impressive job on the handrails!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 03, 2023, 10:44:53 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on October 04, 2023, 01:42:11 AM
They would be tough to make using brass, even more so with stainless. Good job on getting your process optimized!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 04, 2023, 05:20:42 AM
Thanks Chris, Jeff, and Krypto!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 05, 2023, 01:32:12 AM
Now that’s what I am talking about…… :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 05, 2023, 10:49:32 PM
Thanks Don!  :cheers:


After finishing the last four tapers, here’s the whole set (the two on the bottom are the ‘long’ ones).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-1-KIM_2071.jpg)

Then mounted all six of the brackets – the two long ones in the smokebox, using a #3-48 nut on the inside, and the other four into the handrail studs that were so carefully soldered into the boiler some time ago. I did have to do a little reaming of the boiler jacket holes, but not too much.  I actually just used a hobby knife to shave a few thou off the desired side for a few of the holes.  This worked pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-2-KIM_2074.jpg)

It was important to mount all the brackets at this time so that I could mark the location of the holes for the handrail.  The orientation of the brackets will be different depending on where the threads start in the handrail studs.  In the photo above I’d just used a permanent marker to put a dot on the ball at the location where I want to drill the hole.

With the locations marked, I removed the handrail brackets one at a time and threaded them into the same 3-48 mandrel I used on the lathe. However, this time, I mounted that in a collet block on the mill.  And I adjusted the rotation of the bracket carefully by eye then tightened up the collet.  Not as accurate as I prefer to be, but I’m betting it will be accurate enough.

Then I skimmed a few thou off the marked face of the bracket to make a flat spot, then eyeballed the center of that flat with a center drill, and a center mark.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-3-KIM_2080.jpg)

Followed up by a #41 hole (0.096”, which is just over 3/32” - the size of rod I'm using for the handrail).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-4-KIM_2083.jpg)

As each was drilled, I put it back in place on the boiler (or smokebox, as the case may be) and moved on to the next.  A rather laborious procedure, but it worked!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-5-KIM_2086.jpg)

Just one more closeup of the boiler handrail brackets after drilling.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/232b-BoilerHandrailBrackets-6-KIM_2090.jpg)

Next, I’ll make the handrails themselves.

Thanks for checking in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 05, 2023, 11:06:34 PM
Beautiful  details on the handrails!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 06, 2023, 12:10:25 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Those look great on the boiler Kim! Nicely done.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 06, 2023, 06:21:22 PM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 06, 2023, 06:47:15 PM
The holders for the handle bar look good.
A good result and how long did the threaded holes have to wait before they were used. It's always nice when a construction phase is completed.

Michael   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 06, 2023, 10:17:57 PM
Thanks Michael!  Yes, those rail mounting studs were made months ago during boiler construction.  So nice to see that they came out in the right spot!  ;D

Chapter 27.4 – Handrails

Now for the handrails themselves.  These were very simple, just lengths of 3/32” 303 stainless rod.  I cut them to approximate length with bolt cutters then trimmed them to the exact length on the belt sander.  I also used the belt sander to put a 45o taper on one end and round over the other.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/233a-BoilerHandrails-1-KIM_2093.jpg)

Then I mounted the rails in the lathe and polished up the ends with some fine grit sandpaper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/233a-BoilerHandrails-2-KIM_2096.jpg)

And finally, slid them into place through the holes in the mounting brackets.  One side slid in very smoothly.  The other side took a little work – I think the bracket holes must be just a titch out of alignment on that side.  But the positive thing about the tight fit is that the rail doesn’t move anywhere.  The one that slid in smoothly is easily knocked out of place.  I’ll probably end up loctiting the rails in place or something later.  Or maybe the cab front will hold them in place?  Guess we’ll see when we get to that point!

Overall, I’m quite pleased.   Here are a few parting beauty shots of the whole engine as it stands now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/233a-BoilerHandrails-3-KIM_2102.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/233a-BoilerHandrails-4-KIM_2111.jpg)

Next up will be all the connections around the steam dome, including the throttle and safety valves.  That’s going to be a good bit of work, me thinks…

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 07, 2023, 03:08:43 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Owen Gabbie on October 07, 2023, 04:54:12 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 07, 2023, 05:26:13 AM
Thank you Jeff and Owen!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on October 07, 2023, 03:53:39 PM
It's amazing how the little details really make the engine look more realistic!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 08, 2023, 12:08:59 AM
Your attention to details is showing in your work Kim. Outstanding work although you have had pit falls you have recovered like a champ.  :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2023, 05:32:49 AM
Thanks Krypto, and thank you Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on October 08, 2023, 06:39:04 PM
Looking really nice, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 14, 2023, 10:21:58 PM
Thank you, Doug!  :cheers:


Chapter 28.1 – Throttle

Today I started on the Throttle assembly.  This will bolt on top of the steam dome bushing and provide the throttle adjustment for the steam being supplied to the cylinders.  It also contains two Safety Valves – one set for 100 PSI and the other for 105 PSI as a backup.

So first, we'll make the throttle body that will contain all of the above items.  This is fabricated from a couple of pieces of 360 brass; some 3/8” rod for the neck and some 1.5” rod for the main body.

Today I made the throttle neck.  Starting with a 3/8” length of brass, I faced it to the correct length then drilled a 9/64” hole, 2” deep. This will eventually be for the stem of the throttle valve to pass through.  This hole will also be used to provide tail stock support in the next step.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234a-Throttle-1-KIM_2120.jpg)

Here I’ve pulled the rod out to expose most of the length and, using some tailstock support, I turned the diameter down to 5/16”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234a-Throttle-2-KIM_2122.jpg)

Next I flipped the part around in a 5/16” collet and threaded the end that was left at 3/8” at 24 TPI.  Then drilled and reamed the last inch or so to 1/8”. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234a-Throttle-3-KIM_2125.jpg)

And finally, I bored a 0.258” diameter countersink in the end of the throttle neck for an O-ring.  I used a 1/4" end mill as a boring bar here :).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234a-Throttle-4-KIM_2130.jpg)

With that, the throttle neck is complete.  The big hunk of brass in the background will be used for the main part of the throttle body which I’ll be making next.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234a-Throttle-5-KIM_2133.jpg)

Thanks for taking a look!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 14, 2023, 10:35:53 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 15, 2023, 03:37:49 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The solid gold is lookin sharp Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2023, 10:27:19 PM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2023, 10:34:35 PM
Just a little progress on the Throttle today.  It’s not much, but I find that if I post bits of progress, it’s better than if I wait for more progress before I post.  If I wait, it just becomes a bigger deal to upload the pictures and write about what I did.  Posting in smaller bite-sized chunks is far easier for me.  So I try to keep up to date with short little updates.  It's just less daunting than writing a big update you know?  I also find frequent and shorter updates easier to read than less frequent and longer ones.  Just my preference I guess.  Everyone should do their own thing!

So today, I started making the main body of the throttle. This was made from the 1.5” diameter chunk of 360 round bar seen in the previous post.

Here I’ve chucked the bar up in the 3 jaw chuck, faced it, turned it down to the required diameter of 1 7/16”, and am now cutting it off at just over 5/8”.  It was just after I took this picture that I realized I should drill a center hole to help in locating the part on the mill.  This center hole was made #38, 1/4” deep (tapping size for #5-40).  Though I won’t tap it till after I’ve used it as a reference point.  I find it a lot easier to get a reference on a non-tapped hole than one that has threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234b-Throttle-1-KIM_2136.jpg)

Next, I flipped the part around and faced the bottom side to length (5/8”).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234b-Throttle-2-KIM_2139.jpg)

And there you have the blank for the main body of the throttle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234b-Throttle-3-KIM_2142.jpg)

Not a ton of progress, but as some brilliant person has pointed out, progress is progress. :)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 16, 2023, 11:01:56 PM
Very nice!    :popcorn: :popcorn:

Have your shop elves started licking that big brass lollipop yet?   :Jester:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 17, 2023, 12:00:14 AM
I hope Kim's cut his shop elves off from watching and reading this thread! Maybe that will pre-empt lollipop incidents as Chris mentioned. Just in case they do read it, I'd apply some 90 weight gear oil to the soldered assembly (preferably used, say, out of a 1968 Chev differential with 423000 miles) as a really smelly and unpleasant "corrosion preventative".  :Lol:

Just jokin Kim, the parts look great.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2023, 05:36:48 AM
Thanks, Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Yeah, it doesn't look quite like a lollypop yet, so I think I'm good for a bit... but soon I may have to take the gear oil flavoring idea as a preventative step!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 18, 2023, 12:18:02 AM
Continuing work on the main throttle body, I used a gauge pin to register the part using the center hole I drilled on the lathe.  This may not be quite as accurate as the co-axial indicator, but I think it will be plenty accurate and a heck of a lot easier!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-1-KIM_2145.jpg)

Then I drilled 7/32” holes through the part followed by a little 1/4" relief at the top.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-2-KIM_2148.jpg)

And tapped the top 5/16” of the hole 1/4"-32.  These holes are for the two safety valves.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-3-KIM_2150.jpg)

Next, I drilled four #19 holes (clearance holes for #8 screw) with a 9/32” countersink for the SCHS that will hold it in place against the steam dome bushing.  In this picture, I’m just about to make the countersink for the last mounting hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-4-KIM_2153.jpg)

Next, I drilled and tapped the hole for the snifting valve which is connected to the main steam output line for the cylinders.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-5-KIM_2154.jpg)

And finally, I tapped the center hole 5-40.  This hole is used to retain the steam dome in place over the throttle assembly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-6-KIM_2157.jpg)

Here is the state of play at the end of shop time today. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234c-Throttle-7-KIM_2160.jpg)

Still no lollipop, but we're closing in!

One step at a time…
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 18, 2023, 12:46:46 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2023, 10:23:28 PM
Thank you Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 19, 2023, 10:33:25 PM
Next, I need to drill the hole to mount the lollipop stick into.  This is a more complex hole than it looks, however. It has three different sizes along its depth.  The innermost size is a small #36 hole (0.107”).  This will eventually be what the throttle needle seats against.
So I drilled this hole about 1 1/16” deep – deep enough to hit the vertical hole where the snifter will be mounted.  Note that these holes are not centered on the width of the part.  And unfortunately, I drilled an extra center hole on the wrong side! Luckily, I noticed this before I actually drilled the hole.  I decided that I was OK with the "manufacturing identification mark" on the part. Besides, this whole piece will be covered by the steam dome eventually anyway, so nobody will see my booboo :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-1-KIM_2166.jpg)

The next size up is 9/64”. This is just to provide clearance for the throttle needle.  It gets drilled to 9/16” deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-2-KIM_2169.jpg)

The final size for this hole is 5/16”. This is for the throttle neck to fit into (the lollipop stick :)).  It gets drilled 1/4" deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-3-KIM_2172.jpg)

And here’s how the throttle neck will fit – just in that hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-4-KIM_2175.jpg)

After thoroughly cleaning the parts, I went over to the hearth and setup for the silver solder job.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-5-KIM_2177.jpg)

It took a while to get that large hunk of brass up to temp.  I probably should have used the next burner size up in the torch, but I eventually got there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-6-KIM_2180.jpg)

After a pickle bath and a cleaning, it was back to the mill to make the last feature of this part, a slot for the steam inlet.  I used a gauge pin and the four mounting holes around the outside of the part to register it in the mill, then cut the slot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-7-KIM_2183.jpg)

Here’s a shot down the steam inlet showing that hole we drilled earlier.  This is where the #36 hole starts (the smallest one) and is where the throttle needle will seat, so it was important to make sure that was very flat, with no unevenness around the edge of the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-8-KIM_2186.jpg)

Here’s a cross-section down the center of the throttle showing how that multi-sized hole should work.  The steam inlet slot is marked in green.  This slot sits over one of the open holes in the steam dome bushing, thus supplying steam.  The yellow gizmo is supposed to represent the needle for the throttle valve.  The purple arrow is pointing to the back edge of the slot and the small hole that the needle will seat against.  You can see that the steam passage continues past the needle valve and into the vertical hole where it is directed out the bottom of the hole (blue arrow) through the previously installed pipe through the boiler to the smokebox where it is piped down to the cylinders.  The top of that same hole – the red arrow – is where the snifter is located. The Snifter is just a check valve that prevents the steam from exiting, but when steam is not present, will allow air to come into the passageway to the cylinders so that the cylinders will not pull a suction if they move (like coasting downhill or something).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-ThrottleBodyCrossSection.jpg)

And finally, I’ll finish up with the completed throttle, or golden lollipop, if you prefer  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/234d-Throttle-9-KIM_2191.jpg)

Thanks for reading along with my build!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 19, 2023, 10:36:24 PM
Nice sequence!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 20, 2023, 08:23:00 AM
So a very important hidden 'Sweet' - thank you for the explanaition  :ThumbsUp:
... as I never realized that a Loco needs a Snifter (but very logical when you think about it).

Still very much enjoying your Build Kim  :cheers:  :popcorn:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 20, 2023, 12:57:39 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great Kim! Did you test it by putting some soapy water in the drum and blowing air thru the tube? Might make a heck of a soap bubble maker!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 20, 2023, 04:39:40 PM
Thanks Chris, Per, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Yes, the Snifter thing was new to me too, but as you say, it makes sense!  These people were pretty smart, you know?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mark S on October 21, 2023, 11:26:38 AM
Hi Kim, I have just finished making my guide yokes, and I have got exactly the same problem you obtained; the corner of the guides almost touching the tread of both wheels, eliminating any ability for the front wheels to rock. I really thought I had dropped a major clanger, but thanks to your post it seems to be a design fault. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING A PERFECT PICTURE and for solving the problem. There is no other way than removing material from the guide up to the edge of the screw, as you have done.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 21, 2023, 06:35:21 PM
Thanks Mark!
I'm sorry to hear you had that problem too, but it's actually nice to hear someone else ran into the same issue!  Makes me feel less dunderheaded, you know?  I'm never sure if the issues I come across like that are little issues with the plans or if it's just a build-up of tolerances in my likely less-than-accurate parts, you know?  So it gives me some comfort to know I'm not the only one  :Lol:

And I'm glad you found my posts useful in your situation too.  That's one of the reasons I want to post my build is to help others.  The other reason is, of course, that I get a lot of help from people when I run into issues. Which, if you read my thread here, you know happens very frequently!

I would love to see pictures of your work and where you're at with your Pennsy Switcher build!

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on October 23, 2023, 03:46:42 PM
A sweet little lollipop, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2023, 10:57:45 PM
Thank you Ron!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 26, 2023, 11:05:45 PM
Chapter 28.2 – Trunnion

The next part is that Kozo calls the Trunnion.  It’s a little piece that provides a pivot point for the throttle handle mechanism and an endpoint for a spring used to keep the throttle in a normally closed position.

It’s a bizarre little piece that will screw onto the threaded part of the lollipop stick that I just made (the neck of the throttle).

To fabricate this part, I started with the pivot tabs.  These are made from 0.080” steel sheet. Kozo specifies 5/64” brass, of course.  5/64” is 0.0781”, so the sheet I’m using is just a tad thicker than he specifies.  I’ve made this tradeoff in several places on this build.  Sourcing 5/64” thick material wasn’t possible, and I didn’t see much reason to try and shave a thou off the thickness.  I’ll just make the pivot openings a few thou bigger to fit.

Here's the part for the pivots, laid out on a piece of the 0.080” stock.  It’s wider than necessary to aid in the silver soldering process, as you’ll see.  BTW, this brilliant methodology was not my idea, it is Kozos, of course.  I’m learning a lot of great fabrication techniques through his book!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-01-KIM_2193.jpg)

First, I drilled the pivot and spring holes in the correct locations.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-02-KIM_2196.jpg)

Then I flipped the part on end to carve out the center part which is where I’ll be soldering the threaded piece.  I used a gauge pin in one of my holes to calibrate the location of the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-03-KIM_2199.jpg)

Then I took out the 1/2" gap in the middle for the nut, and shaved off 1/8” on the right side – this will be the spring holder, in case you’re wondering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-04-KIM_2203.jpg)

Now to the threaded center part.  I started with 5/8” 12L14 rod which I turned down to 9/16” diameter.  Then drilled and tapped a 3/8”-24 thread in the center (to match the lollipop handle).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-05-KIM_2205.jpg)

Now the tricky part – I made 1/32” deep grooves, 0.080” wide, on both sides of the threaded section.  On one side, the groove is the full length of the part.  On the other side, it is only 3/16” long (for the shorter spring holder).  I held this in a square collet block in the vise, using a vise stop so I could flip the part over to do the groove on the opposite side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-06-KIM_2208.jpg)

Now, back to the lathe where I parted it off just a hair over the required 5/16” width.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-07-KIM_2211.jpg)

Here’s what the two parts look like when fitted together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-08-KIM_2213.jpg)

Here’s a shot after silver soldering the two parts together. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-09-KIM_2216.jpg)

And finally after a short pickle.  I’ll clean it up better after I trim off the excess on the top and shape the two lugs.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235a-Trunion-10-KIM_2219.jpg)

And that’s where I left off today.  Tomorrow(ish) I’ll finish it up!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 26, 2023, 11:30:22 PM
Trunnion: sorta-latin for uneven wing-nut!   :Jester:

Nicely made!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 27, 2023, 12:34:10 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Maybe Kozo is a Triumph car fan? (the TR-3, TR-6, TR-7. and now the TR-unnion!) sorry worst pun this week  :Lol: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 27, 2023, 12:35:30 AM
The pun police are coming for both of us Jeff!

Kim, excellent work as always!   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2023, 05:06:38 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Yeah, Jeff, you really outdid yourself in the pun department this time!  ::) :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on October 27, 2023, 01:20:02 PM
As I pointed out before, this model was originally built with metric dimensions, and then the plans were converted to inch-based dimensions.

I believe one would find that 5/64" is very, very close to 2.0 mm.  8)

Great fabrication work in either case.  :cheers:

Gene

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2023, 05:20:20 PM
Good point, Gene :)

Kozo did a pretty good job on the conversion though, I'll have to say! Converting plans from metric to inch (or vice versa) is quite the undertaking!  I've done it before and it has its own set of challenges in trying to match available stock and fastener sizes, drill & reamer sizes, etc.

Kim 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on October 27, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Converting plans from metric to inch (or vice versa) is quite the undertaking!

That is likely why Kozo said "Never again" after the A3.  :hammerbash:

I recall there were a number of errors in the Live Steam articles that were later corrected for the book.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2023, 09:56:23 PM
Converting plans from metric to inch (or vice versa) is quite the undertaking!

That is likely why Kozo said "Never again" after the A3.  :hammerbash:

I recall there were a number of errors in the Live Steam articles that were later corrected for the book.

Gene
No doubt!   :Lol:
I don't see how you could do all that and NOT have errors.  But at this point, with a number of revisions, the book is mighty accurate!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2023, 10:02:25 PM
The next thing I needed to do was to get rid of the extra sheet stock.  I didn’t have a clear way to hold the part in the mill… I thought about cutting it off on the band saw, but the part is small, and holding it with my fingers close to that blade looked scary.  I eventually came up with this method of holding it in my Taig 4 jaw chuck, then holding that in the mill vise, like this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235b-Trunion-2-KIM_2225.jpg)

That worked quite well and I milled off the unneeded material in no time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235b-Trunion-3-KIM_2228.jpg)

I then used my makeshift radius turning jig on the belt grinder to round the end of the spring tab, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235b-Trunion-4-KIM_2231.jpg)

And then the throttle pivot on the other side:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235b-Trunion-5-KIM_2234.jpg)

If you haven’t seen it, you should watch Blondihack’s video on her radius-turning jig!  It puts mine to shame!  Maybe I’ll make something like that someday… though for now, my little aluminum plate with random holes, clamped onto my belt sander tool rest, works just fine for me.  But it would be really cool to have a fancier jig like Blondihacks made! (Here’s the link, in case you’re interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zykSLg_Efxs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zykSLg_Efxs))

And with that, the Trunnion is complete.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/235b-Trunion-6-KIM_2237.jpg)

Thanks for looking in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 27, 2023, 10:14:39 PM
Great improvised holding! 

Took a look at that video, her solution is very cool, maybe you can make up those jigs for all of us for Christmas....  Kim? Hello?  Oh, Kim left. Laughing hysterically!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 27, 2023, 10:26:22 PM
Great improvised holding! 

Took a look at that video, her solution is very cool, maybe you can make up those jigs for all of us for Christmas....  Kim? Hello?  Oh, Kim left. Laughing hysterically!
:lolb:  :ROFL: :lolb:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on October 28, 2023, 09:14:02 AM
Still following along and enjoying  :ThumbsUp:   :wine1:

Excellent progress  :praise2:  :praise2: I do agree that short updates are easier to follow  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on October 28, 2023, 07:10:18 PM
Good job Kim.

Such a belt sander
I don't have to let Santa Claus give it to me either.
(But only good children get them)

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2023, 11:07:22 PM
Thanks Roger and Michael!  :cheers:

Yes, I really like my belt sander!  I've found it useful in many ways!  Even without the fancy radius jig :)

Surely you've been a good boy, Michael.  Santa might bring you a belt grinder!  You never know!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 28, 2023, 11:19:43 PM
Chapter 28.3 – Gland Nut and Nut

The next parts are the gland nut and nut.  The gland nut is used to retain a viton o-ring to seal the end of the throttle neck around the valve stem.  The nut is just a jam nut to keep the trunnion in place on the neck of the throttle.

These parts were made from 1/2" brass hex bar.

The gland nut needs a small internal groove cut at the end of the threads to allow the part to be threaded fully onto the neck of the throttle.  So, to cut this internal groove, I butchered a boring tool I had (which I’ve never used) that came with a set of basic cutting tools I purchased when I bought this lathe (10 years ago, can you believe it?!).
Not the prettiest of grinding jobs, but it should get the job done!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-1-KIM_2243.jpg)

These are small simple parts, so I decided to make them both together, in one go.

After facing off the end of the hex stock, I drilled a #30 hole into the part.  This is the clearance hole for the valve stem.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-2-KIM_2246.jpg)

Next I drilled a larger hole (about S size, I believe) and then used my fancy new grooving tool to bore out the diameter to 9mm, which is the recommended size for 70% threads using a 3/8”-24 form tap.  The eagle-eyed among you might notice that I had to whittle more off of the tool, since I decided I wanted to do both nuts in one setup here.  I had to make the hole deep enough for both of them!
After boring the hole, I cut the internal groove at the full depth of the hole.  While that’s not visible in this picture, it really is there!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-3-KIM_2248.jpg)

Next, I used the 3/8”-24 form tap and tapped the hole to full depth.  I ground the point off the end of this tap so that I could get the business part of the threads closer to the bottom of the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-4-KIM_2251.jpg)

Then I started cutting off the nut (1/8” wide).  Before the nut was completely removed, I chamfered the corners.  It's easier to do while still in the lathe!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-5-KIM_2254.jpg)

What I found, after cutting off the nut, is that the threads didn’t go all the way to the inner groove like they were supposed to.  It’s hard to see in this picture but you don't get full depth threads on the form tap till you get about 1/8” or so above the base of the tap.  Which is unfortunate, because the gland nut is only 3/16" deep. :(  What to do? :(
So, I found a 3/8”-24 cutting tap (one from a cheap Harbor Freight tap & die set I’ve had for many years).  It was a plug tap, but I ground almost all the leading threads off of it so that it became a pretty decent bottom tap.  This worked much better. I'm sure it would have been hard to start the threads with this, but I already had a few threads to get it started.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-6-KIM_2256.jpg)

I was a little worried that the threads would be too loose, but it turns out that in the larger size like this (3/8”) the hole required for the form tap will actually produce about 60% threads with a cutting tap.  That isn’t the case when you’re working with #1 and #2 sized taps!  But was very welcome news in this situation!

With the thread issue taken care of, I cut off the gland nut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-7-KIM_2259.jpg)

Here are the two parts!  Gland nut on top, and ‘nut’ on the bottom.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-8-KIM_2262.jpg)

And finally, the throttle family shot as of now, showing how they will all fit together.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/236a-GlandNutAndNut-9-KIM_2265.jpg)

After that, I went to Home Depot and picked up a full tank of propane.  My tank's been getting lighter and lighter and I keep worrying that I won’t be able to solder my next part.  So, now’s the time to take care of it!

Thanks for taking the time to look in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on October 28, 2023, 11:27:34 PM
Excellent!    :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 29, 2023, 12:43:19 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great looking assembly!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2023, 03:02:47 PM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 29, 2023, 08:10:49 PM
Chapter 28.4 – Valve Stem and Fork End

Today’s part is the Valve Stem.  This is a fairly simple part made from 1/8” 303 stainless rod.

As always, I started by cutting a length of rod and facing to the desired length.  Then I added some 5-44 threads to the end.   Kozo frequently specifies less common threads for things (probably due to the metric->inch conversion) but I had a 5-44 tap and die, so used it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-1-KIM_2268.jpg)

Then on the other end, I cut a 12o included angle taper.  I initially set the cross slide to 12o which of course, would have made a 24o included angle – probably too steep to give the desired throttle effect.  But luckily, I caught it before I put tool to metal and was able to change it to 6o as needed.  I then did a little clean up with some fine files and sandpaper to make a very smooth taper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-2-KIM_2271.jpg)

And that’s it for the Valve Stem.  Not too hard.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-3-KIM_2274.jpg)

Here’s where it will live, stuck inside the neck of the throttle.  The stainless steel rod was exactly 0.125”, which meant that it didn’t want to go into the 1/8” reamed hole in the neck.  If I'd had a set of under/over reamers this would have been a great place to use them!  But I don't, so I put valve stem back on the late and very carefully sanded down about a thou along the whole length.  That let it slide in place nicely through the neck.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-4-KIM_2281.jpg)

So here’s how it’s supposed to work.  This shows the bottom of the throttle which mounts directly onto the steam dome bushing on the boiler.  The elongated hole, pointed to by the green arrow, matches up with a steam output hole in the steam dome.  The steam will then go through the internal hole, pointed to by the red arrow, and go into the output hole which has the blue arrow coming out of it.  The red dashy lines are supposed to indicate the internal passage that connects the steam inlet (green arrow) to the steam outlet (blue arrow).  The valve stem is open, meaning that it is pulled away from the hole (red arrow) so the steam can get through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-5-KIM_2286_Annotated.jpg)

In this picture, the valve steam ins pushed up against that same internal hole blocking steam from going from the input to the output, so the throttle is closed.  And I imagine the taper helps provide a varying amount of steam depending on how far out you pull the valve stem.  Pretty cool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/237a-ValveStem-6-KIM_2287.jpg)

That's it for today's update.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on October 29, 2023, 09:52:05 PM
Lovely        :cheers:   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on October 29, 2023, 11:54:47 PM
Outstanding work Kim….. :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2023, 04:27:07 AM
Thank you Terry and Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 30, 2023, 10:51:14 PM
The next piece is the “Fork End” of the valve stem.  This was made from 3/16” x 1/4" 1018 steel bar.  As it turns out, the piece following this one (descriptively named “link” (makes me feel like I’m playing the Legend of Zelda or something :lol:)) will be made from this same bar.  So I cut a piece long enough for BOTH of these parts and kind of started the link here too (Though I don't make much progress on that one - that’ll be tomorrow’s project).

I drilled a few holes in the side of the piece.  The far right hole will be for the Fork End, and the other two holes define the ends of the link.  These are drilled #49, which is the correct size for tapping 2-56, which we’ll do eventually.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-01-KIM_2291.jpg)

However, after drilling these holes, I realized I’d drilled them in the 1/4" face of the part, not the 3/16” face, as I should have done.  :facepalm:  Rather than start over, I came up with the idea of just drilling holes the other way instead.  As it turns out, there will be a slit cut in the 1/4" side of each end of these parts, which should remove all trace of my errant hole!  Brilliant idea, thinks I!  ;D So I proceed with that plan, feeling pretty pleased with myself that I saved 2" of a small steel bar.  And what do you think happens next? I muck up on centering the hole on the 3/16 side.  :facepalm:  It’s in the correct spot lengthwise, but as you can see, I didn’t get it centered across the width. Best laid plans…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-02-KIM_2293.jpg)

So, this time, I sacrificed another 2” length of 1018 bar (not a big deal, at least it’s not brass!) and started over by drilling the holes on the correct face of the new part.  Yay!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-03-KIM_2295.jpg)

Turning the part endways, I started drilling a #36 hole which will be used for tapping a 5-44 thread to accept the valve rod eventually.  However, just as I break into the cross drilled hole, I feel the bit catch.  And then things start acting weird.  So I stopped the mill and looked at things closer – turns out, the tip of the bit shattered! This is a good quality Cobat bit too!  Ah well, guess it happens.  I fished the shrapnel out of the hole with some pointy tweezers – you can see them laying on the jaw of the vise there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-04-KIM_2297.jpg)

So I tried again using a #37 dirll.  It’s only a little smaller and still falls within the range of acceptable sizes for a 5-44 tap. Worked without a hitch this time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-05-KIM_2299.jpg)

Next, I cut a 0.128” slot in the end of the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-06-KIM_2301.jpg)

And rounded the end on the 2” belt grinder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-07-KIM_2304.jpg)

Then I used the bandsaw to cut the end off the part, separating the Fork End from the rest, and milled it to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-08-KIM_2307.jpg)

Next I tapped the center hole 5-44.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-09-KIM_2310.jpg)

Finally, I drilled one side of the cross hole #44 (#2 close fit) and tapped the opposite side 2-56.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-10-KIM_2313.jpg)

And here is the completed fork end, threaded onto the back of the valve stem.  I also put a #2 screw in the hole just to show I could.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/238a-ForkEnd-11-KIM_2316.jpg)

That was a LOT of machinations for this little part! (caused mostly by my ineptitude, of course.  But I got there!)

That’s it for the valve stem and fork end.  Tomorrow I’ll start on the link and lever!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on October 31, 2023, 11:38:58 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: It turned out great despite the minor mishaps Kim! I have had a number of drills break over the years when drilling intersecting holes using smallish drills. Higher RPM and slower down feed can reduce the risk when doing small intersecting holes, I find. If there's much backlash in the down feed rack and pinion of the drilling machine it can allow the bit of movement needed for a snatch and break event too.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2023, 05:13:17 PM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: It turned out great despite the minor mishaps Kim! I have had a number of drills break over the years when drilling intersecting holes using smallish drills. Higher RPM and slower down feed can reduce the risk when doing small intersecting holes, I find. If there's much backlash in the down feed rack and pinion of the drilling machine it can allow the bit of movement needed for a snatch and break event too.  :cheers:
Thanks Jeff,
Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what happened.  I wasn't using the fine feed for the quill, I was using the drill press-like quill feed handle.  That usually works for drilling holes where I don't have a specific depth, but when doing the intersecting hole like this, not such a good idea.  Like you said, it did the snatch and break when it broke through the cross hole.  I'm sure using the fine feed would have been wise.  But now there's a small packet of new #36 bits on their way to me, so I'll be set for next time!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2023, 10:13:10 PM
Chapter 28.5 – Link and Lever

Now to focus on Link (you know, Zelda’s hunk? :))

I started this yesterday by drilling the holes for the endpoints.  So next, I used the belt grinder to round the ends based on those carefully placed holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-1-KIM_2330.jpg)

Then just as with the previous part, I flipped it on end and cut the fork on one side –just over 1/8” wide.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-2-KIM_2333.jpg)

And flipping it over, I cut the fork on the other side 0.082” wide, so it will slide over the 0.080” tab on the trunnion.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-3-KIM_2335.jpg)

And finally, I drilled one side of the cross holes #44 for a #2 close fit and tapped the other side.  I did this for the holes on both ends of the link.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-4-KIM_2337.jpg)

Here’s the completed link.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-5-KIM_2339.jpg)

And now, showing the link where it will go in the throttle assembly. This will provide the pivot end for the throttle lever, which I’ll work on next time.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/239a-ThrottleLink-6-KIM_2341.jpg)

Interestingly, I found not one, but TWO errors in the drawings today.  I don’t find many errors in Kozo’s drawings but two in one day is unheard of!

The first issue is clearly a typo on the drawing.  On page 168, Figure 28-12, the drawing of the Link, shows the narrower fork to be 0.785” wide.  For one thing, the part is only 1/4" wide to begin with.  But it’s clear this was supposed to be 0.0785” for the narrow fork since it is supposed to slide over the tab on the trunnion, which Kozo made 5/64” thick, which is 0equivalent to .0781” in decimal.  So a simple missing zero makes a factor of 10 difference.  Anyway, thought I’d mention that.

The second issue I found today is also on Page 168 but in Figure 28-8, the drawing of the Trunnion.  It shows the hole on the larger tab to be 5/64”, which is 0.0781”.  But that hole will be receiving a #2-56 screw, and the major diameter of a #2 screw is 0.086”.  No way that’ll fit through the 5/64” hole.  And I spent some time trying to make it fit before I noticed this error.  Anyway, he probably intended to show #44 (0.086”) for that hole, which is what Kozo uses for a #2 close fit thru hole.

I’ll also add these to the thread we started a while ago on errors in the Pennsy Switcher book.

Thanks for reading along with my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2023, 09:47:06 PM
Today is Throttle Lever day!

I started with the throttle handle which was turned from 5/32” 12L14 round bar.  First, I marked up some important locations on the handle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-01-KIM_2346.jpg)

The proceeded to use some files and sandpaper to free-hand this handle shape:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-02-KIM_2349.jpg)

After pulling out a little additional stock, I started to turn down a short pin for attaching the handle to the rest of the lever. However, with this small diameter stock, it wasn’t feeling very secure.  So I decided to part it off the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-03-KIM_2362.jpg)

And flip it around in the collet to finish shaping the attachment pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-04-KIM_2365.jpg)

Kozo provides no direction on this, but I chose to cut some 2-56 threads to help it stay together while silver soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-05-KIM_2367.jpg)

Next, I moved on to the main part of the throttle lever.  This started as a few inches of 1/4” x 1/8” 1018 bar.  I narrowed the 1/4" side down to 3/16”, per the diagrams, then proceeded to drill all the pivot holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-06-KIM_2354.jpg)

On one end, I drilled and taped 2-56 to receive the previously shaped handle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-07-KIM_2356.jpg)

Next, I used the belt grinder to radius the end of the lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-08-KIM_2358.jpg)

And taper the handle end.  I did this by eye, since it isn’t really critical, just for looks.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-09-KIM_2360.jpg)

Here are the two pieces of the throttle lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-10-KIM_2370.jpg)

Now to the hearth where I added flux and some solder.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-11-KIM_2372.jpg)

And proceeded to make a burnt offering to the gods of metalworking.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-12-KIM_2375.jpg)

After a brief swim in the pickle and a shine, here is the finished throttle lever.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-13-KIM_2378.jpg)

And here is the family shot of the throttle up to this point.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/240a-ThrottleLever-14-KIM_2381.jpg)

The hole in the lever close to the valve stem is for a spring to hook to.  But I don’t have a clue what the hole close to the lever handle is.  It shows the hole in the plans, and I see it in one of the pictures of the completed loco, but nothing goes through that hole.  Hmm…  If I’d realized that earlier I might not have drilled that hole at all.  Ah well, it is made per plan. Maybe there’s a hole in the throttle lever in the prototype? :)

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2023, 10:09:42 PM
Great work on the lever!

I took a look in my copy of the book too, he doesn't show anything about that other hole. The other thing I don't get is that to run the engine, the driver would have to hold the throttle lever the whole time, or the spring will close it again, right?  On the New Shay I built, he has a quadrant arc with notches, and a little spring loaded lever at the handle end, so you can open the throttle and keep it there in several different positions for different speeds. Why not the same on this one??  If you want, I can send you pics of those pages to work out the same thing on your model.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2023, 10:19:57 PM
Great work on the lever!

I took a look in my copy of the book too, he doesn't show anything about that other hole. The other thing I don't get is that to run the engine, the driver would have to hold the throttle lever the whole time, or the spring will close it again, right?  On the New Shay I built, he has a quadrant arc with notches, and a little spring loaded lever at the handle end, so you can open the throttle and keep it there in several different positions for different speeds. Why not the same on this one??  If you want, I can send you pics of those pages to work out the same thing on your model.
I seem to recall that he mentioned something about having the spring making it safer to drive for people who are just getting familiar with steam locos.  Since if you get confused all you have to do is let go of the throttle and the steam will get shut off.  I do have a couple of his other train books (not The New Shay however,  that one seems to be out of print right now, for some reason) but I don't think I'll be changing the design for this.  I'm happy to leave it with the 'spring to off' setup that Kozo has here.

But if you were going to be driving this engine a lot, I can see that the spring might get to be rather a pain  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 04, 2023, 10:23:56 PM
When you get to running it on the bench for videos and testing, you can always get a shop elf to stand there and hold it. He will quickly get bored, put a twisty tie on it and sneak away!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 04, 2023, 11:52:19 PM
I'm sure that extra hole is an ultra important manufacturing datum hole for fitting the arm in the inspection fixture over at Jet Propulsion Labs. After inspection, the "certified for flight" tag can be wired thru the hole.....  :Lol:

Just jokin around. Could it be that a pull rod could be anchored to this hole and run back over the tender so an operator didn't have to bend so far forward? Just food for thought.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2023, 04:39:48 AM
Yes, I'm sure that hole was required for JPL compliance, Jeff!  :ROFL:

Thanks for the twist-tie idea, Chris!  May have to give that one a go  :Lol:

Kim
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 05, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
Hello Kim,
a great result. You did a good job with the “throttle lever”.
It will be fun to use.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2023, 11:17:31 PM
Thanks, Michael!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 05, 2023, 11:27:37 PM
If anyone is following along in their hymnal at home, you’ll note that I’ve skipped section 28.6 on the steam dome gasket.  Oops, I accidentally missed that and didn’t even notice till I was in at the computer writing this up.  Guess my drawing papers got out of order and the springs came up next. Seemed logical to me, so that’s what I did.  Don’t worry, I’ll do the gasket soon! :)


Chapter 28.7 – Springs

Today I made the springs that are required for the throttle assembly. There are three springs needed – one is a tension spring required to hold the throttle lever in the off position when not being intentionally turned on.  The other two are compression springs for the safety valves.

Kozo specifies these springs to be made from 0.028” diameter stainless steel wire.  The closest I could source was 0.025” diameter wire (22 gauge).  Hopefully, this should work adequately.  If not, I’ll try something else.

I already had a mandrel of the correct size from previous work (0.117” diameter).  I put that in the collet chuck and started winding springs.  The tension springs were all wound with the coils tightly together.  The compression springs had some distance between the coils.  I used the 20 TPI setting in the gearbox to help make the windings come out nicely spaced.   It seemed to work out pretty good.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-1-KIM_2385.jpg)

Here’s my fleet of springs – tension on the left and compression on the right.  As you can see, I haven’t trimmed the ends of the compression springs yet!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-2-KIM_2387.jpg)

After cutting the compression springs to about the right length, I used this little jig to help grind the ends of the springs flat. (Not my idea – this is a suggestion from Kozo early on in the book.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-3-KIM_2389.jpg)

Here they are after clean up.  They mostly look pretty good.  The compression springs are supposed to be 7/16” long, and most of them came out about right.  You can see one very short one in there. But that’s why I made a bunch – so I could pick the best ones to use!  The tension springs are supposed to be 7/8” long.  These are rather short, but since they are tension springs, that just means it will pull the throttle closed harder, doesn’t it? (He says optimistically  :embarassed:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-4-KIM_2391.jpg)

Well, clearly, that wasn’t the case.  The tension spring was too short and when extended to open the throttle, it stretched and lost some of it’s elasticity.  It now won’t close the throttle all the way, as can be seen in this video.  Not good  :-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHXFlm5FtEM


So, I tried making the tension springs again. This time I made MORE than 15 coils (which was Kozo’s specification).  Way more.  I made the spring too long and cut it back a few coils at a time till I got a length that kind-a seemed to work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CMi_2IaC14

Now this could still be just a little long, so I may have to take another coil off.  We’ll see.

But I’m not sure I’m pleased with the elasticity of the stainless steel.  Here’s the wire I used.  It’s intended for jewelry making, but if it’s stainless steel wire, does it care what it was intended for?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-5-KIM_2397.jpg)

I also tried to work harden the wire before winding it on the mandrel.  I did this by putting one end in my bench vise and pulling on the other end of a 3’ section (or so) with pliers.  I pulled hard enough I could feel the wire stretch just a bit.  This straightened the curls out of it and also (to my understanding) work hardened it so it should want to maintain its shape better as a spring.  But maybe this isn’t enough?

I have to use stainless for the safety valves, but maybe I can use piano wire for the tension spring for the throttle.  I’ll have to think about that.

Regardless, here’s a parting shot of the throttle assembly as of today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/241a-Springs-6-KIM_2396.jpg)

Thanks for looking in.  And if you have any ideas on how I can make my springs better, do let me know!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2023, 11:44:19 PM
Kozo does specify cold drawn stainless steel  wire. The jewelry  wire like that is commonly annealed so it can be twisted and shaped more, so its softer. Try and find some that specifies cold drawn stainless,  it will hold shape better.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 05, 2023, 11:51:21 PM
Mcmaster has .026 and .029 spring back stainless meant for springs, heres a link


https://www.mcmaster.com/products/shafts/fabrication~cold-drawn/shape~wire/material~stainless-steel-2/spring-back-multipurpose-304-stainless-steel-wire/
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on November 05, 2023, 11:51:54 PM
Yeah, I always get my spring wire from McMaster-Carr. Their stainless wire is hardened which should be what you want.

If you haven't read it yet, buy Workshop Practice Series #19 "Spring Design and Manufacture" from Tubal Cain (Tom Walshaw). It contains everything you could possible want to know about springs for model engineering.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 06, 2023, 05:30:25 AM
Thanks Chris and Krypto!
Very good pointer! I'll have to pick up some cold drawn stainless wire from McMaster!  Great link, Chris.  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the book reference Krypto, I'll have to see if I can acquire that book.  Seems like it would be a good reference.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 09, 2023, 10:19:32 PM
Chapter 28.6 – Gasket

Today is Gasket day.  But I’d also received a package from McMaster Carr this morning with my new stainless steel wire.  This wire is hardened, for making springs.  So before I started work on the gasket, I decided to remake some springs. And yes, this hardened wire worked MUCH better.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/242a-ThrottleGasket-1-KIM_2401.jpg)

I can now open the throttle fully without feeling like I’m overextending the spring.  And it pops back to the closed position smartly!

I also used a slightly larger wire this time.  McMaster had 0.029” wire which is much closer to the specified 0.028”, so that’s what I used before.  But I think the biggest difference was that the wire was hardened, so it worked much better for springs.

OK, on to the gasket.  I used 1/64” gasket material (as specified by Kozo) and holding the main throttle body firmly in place, I cut out around it using an X-acto knife.  This gave me the basic shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/242a-ThrottleGasket-2-KIM_2404.jpg)

I then taped the round gasket to the bottom of the throttle and drilled seven of the holes using the throttle as a guide.  I had a piece of wood underneath to help the gasket material from tearing out when the drill broke through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/242a-ThrottleGasket-3-KIM_2407.jpg)

Finally, I used an X-acto knife to cut the final hole in the bottom.  This one doesn’t go all the way through the throttle (the oblong one center there) so I just made a careful guess as to where it was, poked the knife through, and cut around the edge of the hole.  That worked pretty well.  Here’s the finished gasket:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/242a-ThrottleGasket-4-KIM_2411.jpg)

You can also see the new tension spring in this pic.  As I said before, it inspires much more confidence and closes the throttle firmly when you stop pulling on the throttle lever.

That’s it for today’s update. Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 09, 2023, 11:12:32 PM
Nice job on the gasket and the springs!  I'll have to put some of that wire in the basket on my next order from McMaster, got a project coming up that will need a couple of springs in a larger size than the usual ball-point pen diameters that I have gotten away with a few times.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 10, 2023, 03:21:55 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 10, 2023, 05:36:49 AM
Thanks Chris and Jefff!  :cheers:

Nice job on the gasket and the springs!  I'll have to put some of that wire in the basket on my next order from McMaster, got a project coming up that will need a couple of springs in a larger size than the usual ball-point pen diameters that I have gotten away with a few times.
Thanks for the link, Chris!  The wire worked great! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: repkid on November 10, 2023, 09:48:38 AM
Those are some pretty springs, looking good!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 10, 2023, 05:46:45 PM
Thanks Repkid!   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rklopp on November 10, 2023, 11:48:14 PM
I have had great success for years following Dave Silberstein's spring-making guide at the following link: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/how_to_make_springs.pdf

A key point when winding extension springs is to have the feed lag the wind so that the wire almost, but not quite, wraps back on itself. This makes the coils pack tight. I noticed some of the coils were gapped in your initial attempt with jewelry wire extension springs. You might also consider "setting" your springs with or without a cycle through the kitchen oven.

Dave's guide used to be on earthlink.net, but seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Dave allowed the public to download his HTML so that the whole tutorial worked as a local website. I have had it for many years, and now I have the PDF, which is handy. I view Dave's tutorial with the same great respect as George Trimble's tutorial on making piston rings. Both tutorials teach methods that just plain work.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 11, 2023, 05:59:44 AM
Thanks RKlopp!  I read the first several pages and this looks like a very comprehensive guide on making springs!  I'll have to spend some more time reading through it.  Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing it.  :ThumbsUp: :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2023, 12:17:18 AM
The next major subassemblies are the Safety Valves.  These are each made up of four parts that Kozo has labeled the body, the plug, the bonnet, and the nut.  The body has the valve seat and holds the parts, the plug is the spring-loaded item that keeps the valve closed till the intended release pressure is met, the bonnet holds the plug in place in the body, and the nut locks the bonnet in place to keep the set pressure.  The pressure that the valve releases can be varied by turning the bonnet (which is threaded into the body) which varies the pressure on the spring/plug setup.  Hopefully, this will become more clear as the parts are made.


Chapter 28.8 – Valve Bodies

The valve body contains the valve seat. And to make the valve seat requires a special D-bit with a 15o slope around the hole.  This is the same method used for the valve seats in the various pumps that have been made for the engine already.  However, this valve will be using a 3/16” ball which is larger than any of the pumps.  So a new D-bit is required to make these valve seats.  This one is 0.236” in diameter.  So I took a piece of W-1 tool steel, turned the required diameter, then set it up in the mill to make the required 15o angle on the tip and to make the D shape.  The tip looks kind of peculiar in this picture because there’s a burr that was raised on the edges from milling.  I cleaned these up after the photo.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-1-KIM_2413.jpg)

After hardening and tempering the D-bit, I started work on the body. These were made from 3/8” hex brass.  The first step was to round the hex off for the first 1/2". Then I drilled #26 through the entire part, which was a little over 1”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-2-KIM_2415.jpg)

I next drilled 15/64” (just a few thou shy of the diameter of the D-bit I just made) hole almost to where the seat will be.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-3-KIM_2417.jpg)

Now, using the newly honed D-bit, I completed this hole to its expected depth of 23/32”, thus, creating the seat for the valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-4-KIM_2419.jpg)

And finally, opened 5/8” of the hole for 5/16”-24 tapping.  I used a roll form tap for this, so the size of hole I drilled was L, which is different than the size Kozo specifies since he’s using a cutting tap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-5-KIM_2421.jpg)

Then pulled a bit more stock out of the collet so I could cut the valve body off at 1.032”
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-6-KIM_2423.jpg)

Here are the two in-progress valve bodies.  They’re only half done. Next time I’ll flip these around and work on the other end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-7-KIM_2433.jpg)

I tried taking a picture down the deep hole there to show the valve seat.  And just so you know, I didn’t see this till I came in and looked at it on the computer all zoomed in.  And what I saw scared me!  That’s the ugliest looking valve seat I’ve ever seen!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243a-ValveBodies-8-KIM_2430.jpg)

After fretting about it for a bit, I finally thought that maybe it was just a burr on the inside of the hole that needed to be reamed out. And that is what it turned out to be (I had to go back out to the garage to check! :))  I was able to ream out that burr with the #26 drill bit that made the hole and now the valve seat looks nice and crisp like it should.

Anyway, I’ll be sure to check my other valve seat too before I get going too far.  But it was good to clear that up!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 12, 2023, 01:01:34 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2023, 05:28:29 AM
Thanks, Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 12, 2023, 02:01:52 PM
That's some nice spring work  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: I will have to try making my own one day. I have used commercial springs for my fuel injection to get repeatability and consistency.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2023, 04:18:22 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:

The springs really aren't hard to make.  I can't answer for their consistency, but they seem pretty good to me.  Especially since I'm using the proper spring wire for them now!   :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2023, 09:48:50 PM
Before I continued on with the valve bodies, I wanted to recheck the valve seats.  And they both looked a little questionable – like maybe I didn’t go in far enough to get rid of the hole left from the point of the drill used to make the hole right before I ran the D-bit for the valve seat (the 15/64” drill).  So, I put the parts back in the hex collet and used the D-bit to go a few thou deeper, then I ran in the original drill (the #26 one that forms the inner hole of the valve seat) to get rid of the burr turned up by the D-bit.

I went back and forth on this a time or two till I got what looked like a nice sharp seat from the D-bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243b-ValveBodies-1-KIM_2435.jpg)

Since I’m using Si-Nitride balls for this, I’ve chosen not to create a hammered seat with a sacrificial ball bearing.  I’ve heard from others that when using the Si-Nitride, leaving the more pointy valve seat provides a better seal.  If this doesn’t work, I can always do a hammered seat as suggested by Kozo.


With that done, I proceeded to machine the other end of the valve bodies.  I held them in a 3/8” collet and brought the tip down to 1/4", then made a groove at the end of that and cut a 45o up from the end of the groove.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243b-ValveBodies-2-KIM_2437.jpg)

Then I cut the 1/4"-32 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243b-ValveBodies-3-KIM_2439.jpg)

Here are the two completed valve bodies.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/243b-ValveBodies-4-KIM_2442.jpg)

Next up will be the valve plug.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 12, 2023, 10:16:57 PM
You have been busy of late Kim and I haven't commented in quite some time (not lack off interest) - but great to see that you continue eating the Elephant => making nice parts  :ThumbsUp:   :ThumbsUp:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 12, 2023, 10:28:40 PM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:
And it's a pretty tasty elephant, too!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 13, 2023, 12:02:04 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The valve bodies look great Kim! Nice job. Hope you got a good size bottle of horseradish for eatin that elephant... :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2023, 05:31:15 AM
Horseradish is a good idea!  I've been alternating between A1 and Worcestershire sauce, but the horseradish sounds good  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tghs on November 13, 2023, 02:43:53 PM
looks great!!! we have some horseradish in the family that dates back over 100 years, a vile strain that could be classified as a chemical weapon,, cut and peel it underwater, grind it in a food processor outside, make sure your upwind when you take the lid off.. :mischief: it will clear your sinuses if not careful!!! :Mad:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2023, 05:39:29 PM
looks great!!! we have some horseradish in the family that dates back over 100 years, a vile strain that could be classified as a chemical weapon,, cut and peel it underwater, grind it in a food processor outside, make sure your upwind when you take the lid off.. :mischief: it will clear your sinuses if not careful!!! :Mad:
Sounds like good stuff!  Be careful with it  :ROFL:


Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2023, 10:25:55 PM
Chapter 28.9 – Valve Plugs, Valve Bonnets and Nuts

Today I made the Valve Plugs. These were made from 1/4" 360 brass rod.

First I took the whole part down to 0.228” diameter.  Then I turned down a 7/16” length to a diameter of 0.060”. Since that is such a small diameter, I chose to turn it in short sections, like this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/244a-ValvePlugs-1-KIM_2444.jpg)

Next, I turned down a 1/8” length to 1/8” diameter.  The spring will fit around this to keep it centered on the plug.  Finally, I cut a little lip down to 0.209” diameter, then cut off the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/244a-ValvePlugs-2-KIM_2449.jpg)

Next, I flipped the part around and held it in a 1/8” collet. The 1/8” section wasn’t very long but it proved to be plenty for this operation, which was just drilling a #13 hole (0.185”) to 0.122” deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/244a-ValvePlugs-2-KIM_2449.jpg)

This hole is supposed to be a ‘push fit’ for a 3/16” ball bearing.  I had measured my Si Nitride ball bearings and they were exactly 0.1875” so I thought that 2.5 thou undersided hole might even be a little tight for a 'push fit'.  However, when I went to push the bearing in place, it promptly fell out. Guess my #13 drilled too big, or, maybe more likely in this case, the very thin wall of the ball cup deformed as the hole was being drileld.

Regardless, my solution was to use some small pliers to gently squeeze the edge of the bearing cup around the bearing.  It worked like a charm.  Now the Si Nitride bearings stay in place right side up or upside down. :)

And here are the completed valve plugs.  The black balls in the end of the plugs are the Si-Nitride bearings, of course.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/244a-ValvePlugs-4-KIM_2453.jpg)

The next part will be the Valve Bonnets.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 13, 2023, 10:34:20 PM
Um, great job, but what are Valve Plugs for? Where do they go?   :headscratch:   I'm sure once you tell me, I'll do an 'Of Course' head slap!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 13, 2023, 11:16:48 PM
Thanks Chris  :Lol:

Yeah, the naming is a little odd to me, but then, I don't know what else I'd call them!  :shrug:

I gave a feeble attempt at explaining these parts when I started the Safety Valve, in reply #3433 (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273310.html#msg273310), but clearly I wasn't very successful.

So let me post a picture.  That should help a lot!  I should have done that to start with, eh?

In this picture, part number 13 is the Valve Plug.  It holds the ball bearing (18) on the valve seat in the Valve Body (12).  Next, I'll be making the Valve Bonnet (14) which will hold it all together.  The Valve Bonnet (14) threads into the Valve Body (12). Turning the Valve Bonnet (14) in and out will adjust the pressure on the spring (11) which will vary the pressure at which the safety valve will open.  The Nut (15) locks the Bonnet in place after adjustment so that it doesn't change the pressure you set for the Safety Valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/244a-ValvePlugs-SafetyValves.jpg)

Hopefully, that helps make it more clear.  And if there are better names for all these gizmos, do let me know!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 14, 2023, 12:55:25 AM
Nice work on those whatchamacallits, Kim! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 14, 2023, 12:57:24 AM
Thanks  Kim, perfect explanation for the  valve thingy!   :ThumbsUp:   Now that I  see the diagram it makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 14, 2023, 01:07:02 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2023, 05:14:45 AM
Thanks Ron, Chris, and Jeff!
Yeah, that Kozo guy is pretty smart. There are a lot of little pieces that should all work out to being a safety valve.  Pretty cool!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2023, 12:08:21 AM
The Valve Bonnets were made from 5/16” brass rod. I started by taking 3/4" of it down to 0.234” which is 15/64”.  Kozo specifies 0.236” which as it turns out, is 6mm.  But there doesn’t seem to be any specific need for it to be 6mm (or 0.236” either).  Just big enough to provide the strength needed for the valve.  And I don’t think a couple of thou will make much difference there, but it WILL allow me to use a 15/64” collet to hold that end of the part in for future operations. :) Then I drilled a #52 hole which is 0.0635”, a nice sliding fit for the small shaft on the valve plug.  This hole was drilled all the way through the part, about 1 1/4".  Lots of in and out to clear chips with this tinny little guy.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-1-KIM_2455.jpg)

Next, I opened up the center hole to 5/32”.  This hole doesn’t go all the way through, but ‘almost’.  It only went in 1 1/16”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-2-KIM_2457.jpg)

Then I parted it off from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-3-KIM_2459.jpg)

On the mill, I used a 0.040” slitting saw to cut a groove for a screwdriver.  This will be used for adjusting the release pressure of the safety valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-4-KIM_2461.jpg)

Now, back to the lathe where I took advantage of that 15/64” collet I referred to earlier to hold the part for threading.  The thread size here is 5/16” – 24 TPI.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-5-KIM_2463.jpg)

And while it’s on the lathe I cut the last 1/16” down to a 1/8” diameter tip. This is for holding the top end of the spring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-6-KIM_2466.jpg)

And finally, back to the mill, I took off a little bit on either side of that 1/8” pip which exposed the 5/32” hole I drilled earlier.  The amount of opening here controls the speed with which the pressure is released when the valve pops.  The larger the opening, the faster the pressure will bleed off.  He provides some guidelines on this and says to fine-tune it with some files once you get to running things.  So for now, I just cut the edges far enough to expose just a little bit of the hole.  Figure it's easier to take more off than to put some back on later :).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-7-KIM_2468.jpg)

And that completes the Balve Bonnets.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/245a-ValveBonnets-8-KIM_2470.jpg)

Next will be the valve nuts and, hopefully, assembling and testing the safety valves!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 15, 2023, 11:40:25 AM
The safety valve looks good and I'm excited to see how the test goes.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2023, 02:57:03 PM
Thanks, Michael!  :cheers:
Me too!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 15, 2023, 03:02:13 PM
With all the progress on the valves, you must not be far from the point where you can test run the engines on air fed to the boiler? With a couple plugs for things like sight glass if they are not made yet? 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2023, 03:13:07 PM
Thanks Chris!  Yes, I'm getting excited about that too!  Not too long now - maybe a few weeks at the speed my elves work  :Lol:

No progress today. Helping out family on the other side of the city.  Maybe some progress tomorrow, we'll see what else comes up. Things always do, you know?
As they say, being retired is hard!  I don't know how I ever had time to work!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Baltic on November 16, 2023, 05:30:29 AM
Great work Kim loving your progress,   :)
I have still been following along in the background, my work gets in the way sometimes,

I am in TTR, (transition To retirement) at the moment, and procuring the bits I need to build one of these one day,

Gary
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2023, 06:13:04 PM
Thanks Gary!  :cheers:

You'll love retirement!  I know I do.  I can safely say it's the best job I've ever had!  :Lol:

Hope you get to retire soon and enjoy it like I do.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2023, 11:39:18 PM
Today I finished up the safety valves.

The only parts left to make were the jam nuts.  These were made from 3/8” hex brass.  I drilled and tapped the 5/16”-24 thread, and parted off the nuts.  Oh yeah, and filed a nice chamfer on the edges to make them look pretty.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/246a-ValveNuts-1-KIM_2472.jpg)

The completed nuts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/246a-ValveNuts-2-KIM_2474.jpg)

Here are all the parts of the safety valves, laid out in assembly order.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/246a-ValveNuts-3-KIM_2478.jpg)

And the completed Safety Valves.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/246a-ValveNuts-4-KIM_2480.jpg)

Now, how to set them?

I made a little adaptor that went from 1/4" NTP to 1/4”-32. The 1/4" NTP allowed me to insert a compressed air quick connect fitting, and the 1/4"-32 will let me screw in one of the safety valves.  No pics of making this, but you can imagine it :)

The first thing that happened was that my safety valves leaked all the time.  Turns out that I DID have to do the ‘whack’ treatment to seat the ball bearing.  I must be wrong about the ‘leave the seat sharp’ comment because after seating the ball using Kozo’s method, those valves sealed up REALLY nicely.  After thinking about it some, I’m betting that the ‘leave the seat sharp’ advice was for using rubber balls instead of Si-Nitride bearings.  That would make a lot more sense.  Regardless, this certainly worked!  I’m going to have to go back and rework some of my pumps using this method.  I’ve been SO careful to leave the edges of the seat sharp. And that’s probably why my boiler test pump leaks so badly… I’m going to have to see if I can fix that now (someday, anyway).

Here’s a short video of my setup.  I’ve got a pressure regulator in the vise that I’m using to adjust the air pressure from my compressor up and down.  And you can see that turning the bonnet on the safety valve adjusts the release pressure.  I was surprised at how even the adjustment is.  I’m not saying it was easy to hit an exact number, but there was quite a range, and it was very predictable.  That was super cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDbPnrYcWi0

Here’s a video of my final test of the safety valve set to 100psi.  They seem to have about 6-8 lbs of hysteresis, which is about what Kozo recommends.  So I’m going to leave those holes in the bottom side of the bonnet alone for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OOGvFWPAmQ

And another video of the second safety valve set for 105psi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U1bJf5FiIM

And finally, here’s the whole assembly up to this point. Still have the snifter valve to go before it’s fully complete.  Note that I carefully, and beautifully I might add, labeled the two safety valves with the pressure I have set them to.  You won't see that great marking because it will be under the steam dome anyway.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/246a-ValveNuts-5-KIM_2482.jpg)

Now I’m wondering if the valves will act the same under steam as they do under compressed air.  I mean, pressure’s pressure, right?  Wouldn’t 100psi of air pressure be the same as 100psi of steam?  Or are there other issues of ‘gas viscosity’ or such that I don’t understand that will affect it?  Will the temperature difference cause an issue? Any thoughts here?

At least it’s closer than it would have been if I just set them randomly, I’ll bet!  Plus, I know they actually hold up to 100 psi without leaking, and that's a definite plus.

This was an exciting day for me!  :cartwheel: Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 16, 2023, 11:51:46 PM
Terrific!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 17, 2023, 12:34:44 AM
Very nice Kim!
Still following along here.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on November 17, 2023, 01:19:49 AM
Nicely work. 

The theory says that the spring rate of the steel for the springs will decrease slightly with an increase in temperature (Youngs Modulus decreases), so setting the valves on air is a conservative approach but should be close enough (say within ~6% of your target 100psi).
As to how it behaves after it opens - I'm not going to guess, I'll wait for the field report.

Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 17, 2023, 03:21:47 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: You definitely have some sharpie marker skills Kim! Fine lookin markings.  :Lol: Just kiddin around, that's a great looking throttle / safety valve assembly.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on November 17, 2023, 04:14:23 AM
Awesome results Kim…… :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2023, 05:29:00 AM
Thank you, everyone!  :cheers:

Jeff, I've been honing my sharpie skills since kindergarten - and before if you can believe my mother who says I autographed the wall of my at least once!  So, many years of practice!  And as Chris says, practus maques purfect (or something like that  :Lol:).

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2023, 05:31:05 AM
Nicely work. 

The theory says that the spring rate of the steel for the springs will decrease slightly with an increase in temperature (Youngs Modulus decreases), so setting the valves on air is a conservative approach but should be close enough (say within ~6% of your target 100psi).
As to how it behaves after it opens - I'm not going to guess, I'll wait for the field report.

Mike
Good info!  Yes, that makes sense.  Thanks for the great input!  Guess we'll see how it compares to real steam later.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 17, 2023, 06:44:12 AM
A Very Important Milestone reached (Safety is ALWAYS Important) - so good to see that it works as it should  :praise2:

Per       :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2023, 05:41:17 PM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 17, 2023, 06:12:46 PM
You made two nice safety valves!
I really like the design and it's easy to build.
It opens slowly and closes slowly. So I could hear it in the video.
In Germany these “POP” safety valves are often offered by model steam dealers. They open immediately when the steam pressure is exceeded and close again immediately. I think they have a different structure on the valve cone and are not absolutely necessary for small model locomotives.


Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2023, 06:27:06 PM
Thanks Michael!  :cheers:
In Germany these “POP” safety valves are often offered by model steam dealers. They open immediately when the steam pressure is exceeded and close again immediately. I think they have a different structure on the valve cone and are not absolutely necessary for small model locomotives.

Yes, I've purchased safety valves for previous projects and they were more instantaneous release with a more immediate positive close.  There must be some additional mechanical workings in there to provide a 'snap' open/close rather than this more gentle opening and closing.  I can see that being a good thing, but I also see it being more complex.  And on these small locos, not absolutely necessary.  But then, that's probably why he put two safety valves in the design.  That way if the first one isn't venting fast enough, the second one will open and double the venting rate.  Plus, if the first one fails to open, you have a backup.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 17, 2023, 10:07:15 PM
Hi Kim,
 Just done a catch up! You must have a good cookie jar the elevens have out done themselves! Really nice work!

A bit late for your safetys, instead of whacking the balls to get a seat, try using a press, aka your vice. One of the guys on another forum does it this way & you get a more uniform seat. The other good thing is those suckers are so hard you don’t deform them when forming the seat & can use them instead of binning it as you should do with a stainless one.

Keep up the good progress!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 12:22:09 AM
Thanks Kerrin  :cheers:

That's a great tip on using a press or vise to form the seat!  I'll have to try that next time.  Too late for the snifter valve too (as you'll see in today's update).  But I'll be armed with it for next time!

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 12:42:39 AM
Chapter 28.10 – Snifting Valve

The Snifting Valve has two parts, the base, and the cap both of which are made from 1/4" 360 hex brass.  No, three parts, the base, the cap and the 1/8” ball bearing. (Sounds like Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition  :lolb:)

I made the base of the snifting valve first.  I started by turning one end to the correct size for #12-32 threads (0.216”).  Similar to the valve bodies, it got an undercut at the end (relief for the threads) and that nice 45o chamfer.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-01-KIM_2485.jpg)

Next, I drilled through through the part – well, ~ 1/2" deep, which will be through, after I part it off! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-02-KIM_2487.jpg)

I need to put 32 TPI threads on that end, but I also need to hold it from there.  So I’m going to cut the threads a little later.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-03-KIM_2489.jpg)

For now, held that portion in a 7/32” collet (7/32" is mighty close to the major diameter of a #12 screw) and shaped the other side, and cut #12-32 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-04-KIM_2491.jpg)

I then swapped back to the 1/4" hex collet and cut the threads on the first side (the one that I was holding in the 7/32" collet before).

Now to the mill, to make a slit across the top end of the base.  I needed to center the slit on the hole so I used a gauge pin to help me find one edge of the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-05-KIM_2507.jpg)

Then offsetting from there, I cut a short slit. This hole is where the ball will rest when there is no steam going to the cylinders.  And having the slit there guarantees that air can get by the ball, which is the purpose of the shifting valve.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-06-KIM_2509.jpg)

Now for the upper part of the Snifting Valve.  This is basically a cap with a seat for the bearing.  I started by drilling a little hole (the inside size for the bearing seat) then the outside size followed by the D-bit to make a seat.  Kozo specifies a 0.185” D-bit for this, but I already had a 0.180” seat D-bit, so I used that instead.  I can’t imagine 5 thou is going to change things much.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-07-KIM_2493.jpg)

Next, I reamed the 0.180” hole to 0.185”, which is the tapping size for 12-32 threads, and tapped the snifter cap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-08-KIM_2495.jpg)

And finally, parted the cap off the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-09-KIM_2497.jpg)

Here’s how I’ve been doing the ‘whack the bearing’ thing to form the valve seats.  The valve seat for the snifting valve is on the inside of the cap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-10-KIM_2503.jpg)
Next time I should try using a vise, like Kerrin suggestion! That would be a much more repeatable operation.  I learn something every day on this forum!

This picture is an attempt to show the valve seat before (on the left) and after (on the right) forming the seat by whacking the bearing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-11-2023-11-w3.jpg)

Unfortunately, the pictures weren’t in very good focus.  I lost my good macro lens a few months ago – I had the camera outside sitting on the tripod while I was doing some silver soldering.  I also had my welding curtain pulled out of the garage to give me more room to work.  And along comes a big gust of wind which blew the welding curtain over into the tripod knocking the whole thing over.  The camera was OK, because the lens taking the brunt of the fall.  The lens was totaled :(  So, now I’m using my next favorite lens, but it doesn’t have any macro capability.  I sure miss that…

Anyway, in the shot on the right you should see a nice sharp edge, which you don’t.  But in person, it looked pretty good.  Much better than this picture.  On the left you should see a nice clean donut of a seat all the way around the hole, which you kind of do, but not as clear as I’d like.  It does look better in person.  Ah well, it was worth a try.

Here are the three parts of the sniffing valve, all lined up and ready for assembly:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-12-KIM_2511.jpg)

And here it is assembled.  The bit of red you can see right behind the cap is some Loctite sealant.  I’ve used it on other steam interfaces to good effect.  I don’t anticipate taking this apart again so I chose to seal it now.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-13-KIM_2513.jpg)


And believe it or not, the snifting valve actually works!  I gave it the blow test and you can suck through it easily, but you can’t blow through it at all!  Yay!

Here’s the completed throttle assembly, complete with safety and snifting valves.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-14-KIM_2516.jpg)

And finally, the full family shot of the loco with all the parts built to date.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247a-SniftingValve-15-KIM_2522.jpg)

The next section will cover the steam dome, sand dome, and bell. That should be fun!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on November 18, 2023, 01:38:42 AM
Another milestone! Looks great!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 18, 2023, 01:43:26 AM
Excellent,  things are really  taking shape!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 18, 2023, 02:12:31 AM
Looks awesome, Kim! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 18, 2023, 02:13:45 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 05:25:04 AM
Thanks, Doug, Chris, Ron, and Jeff!  :cheers:

It is getting exciting!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on November 18, 2023, 03:03:30 PM
There must be some additional mechanical workings in there to provide a 'snap' open/close rather than this more gentle opening and closing.

I doubt there is any mechanical assistance. The pop action is largely controlled by the relative sizes of the components and the steam escape path. If the cross-section of the movable portion above the seat is large and the annulus is small the opening action will be a strong pop as the boiler pressure suddenly finds a much larger area to push on.

This needs to be balanced against the pressure differential wanted, as it would be easy to make a valve that would not close at a reasonable pressure.

I am no expert, having made only a few safety valves, but a lot has been written about the theory and practice.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 18, 2023, 04:18:45 PM
All I know of the safety valves is that on the real thing, they are LOUD when they release!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 05:06:06 PM
There must be some additional mechanical workings in there to provide a 'snap' open/close rather than this more gentle opening and closing.

I doubt there is any mechanical assistance. The pop action is largely controlled by the relative sizes of the components and the steam escape path. If the cross-section of the movable portion above the seat is large and the annulus is small the opening action will be a strong pop as the boiler pressure suddenly finds a much larger area to push on.

This needs to be balanced against the pressure differential wanted, as it would be easy to make a valve that would not close at a reasonable pressure.

I am no expert, having made only a few safety valves, but a lot has been written about the theory and practice.

Gene
Interesting. That makes a lot of sense.

I was picturing a spring mounted kinda sideways so it angled one way when closed and the other way when opened, just like a spring-loaded toggle switch (if you've ever taken one of those apart).  But what you say here, Gene, makes a lot of sense.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 05:06:51 PM
All I know of the safety valves is that on the real thing, they are LOUD when they release!
I'll bet!  That must be something to hear!  (With hearing protection on, of course!  :LittleDevil:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 18, 2023, 05:32:31 PM
These valves look complicated.
Here's a page from the book for the train driver.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 18, 2023, 05:54:13 PM
Here's a nice reference showing the difference between a "pop" type safety valve and the "regular" type. Not much difference at all really, it's basically in how the seat for the ball is made, as shown in the first illustration.
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 18, 2023, 05:54:27 PM
Thats a great description Michael!

And Kim, only protection usually used in the field is the ends of fingers in ears! Though that is tough to maintain while steering the Lombard...  Other issue is hot boiler steam mist swirling down depending on the wind direction.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 11:47:10 PM
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!

And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!

Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 18, 2023, 11:55:58 PM
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!

And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!

Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh?  :Lol:

Kim
Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine?  Ayuh!    :lolb:    The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride!  Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go.   :shrug:   We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened.  sigh.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 11:56:29 PM
Rather than start on the steam dome today, I decided to do what Chris suggested and run the engine, with the throttle, using air delivered through the boiler.  That would be a great test of everything I’ve made to date!

The first thing I had to do was to face a problem that I’ve known about for a while – the fittings on the steam tube that runs through the smokebox from the boiler to the steam-T.  They just weren’t tightening up.  You could engage the threads somewhat, but as soon as you tried to tighten it, they’d pop right off.

So I took the smokebox off and tried working with the steam tube out in the open, so I could get my fingers in there better to see if I could get the nuts threaded on correctly.  And no, I couldn’t.  It seems that the tube wasn’t seating correctly in the receiving fitting, so it was difficult to get the nut started right.  Consequently, I’d apparently cross threaded that nut.  Looking closely, I could see at least two sets of threads in the nut, so I’d clearly tried tightening it when it wasn’t started correctly.  And I couldn't think of any way to repair that at this point.  The pipes with nipples soldered onto the end aren't very rework friendly.  :(

Luckily, the studs on the boiler were still in good shape.  At least I hadn’t chewed those up! Guess the brass is softer than the bronze used for the threaded studs!

So I spent a good chunk of my day re-making that short little 3-4” steam pipe.  I remade the nuts and the nipples, and silver soldered the new ones to a new length of 3/16” copper tube.  This time, I checked things at each stage.

1) I made sure the nuts threaded on the studs all the way, by themselves, before I hooked them up to the pipe.
2) I made sure the nipples fit well into the studs on their own.
3) I made sure that the nut would tighten down over the nipple all the way, and that I could fit the tube in place into the nipple.
4) After soldering a nipple on one end of the tube, I made sure that it could still be connected tightly to the stud.
5) Then I formed the tube, cut it to length, and soldered the other nipple in place, being SURE to get the nuts on before soldering (in the correct orientation, I might add!)

I also made sure to anneal the copper tube again so that I could do last minute adjustments as I was doing the final fit .

And with all those changes and precautions, it came out great!  (The old steam pipe is laying on the front bumper of the loco.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/247b-SniftingValve-1-KIM_2526.jpg)

Now, the next step was to get the steam pipe in place AFTER I reassembled the smokebox.  And that worked too.  It was quite a bit harder because once you get the smokebox in place it’s pretty hard to work in there.  But taking it slow and careful, I was able to assemble things without cross threading the nuts!

After that, I proceeded to plug all the holes in the boiler, just as I’d done while hydro testing it.  And, as fortune would have it, the water fill hole is just the right size to connect a 1/4" air fitting in place.  So that will be the air input for my test setup.

It took several rounds to get everything pugged.  I thought I got all the holes, but once I turned on the air I could feel it spraying out everywhere.  Turns out, I’d forgotten to pug the front water inlet holes.  And, I only had one plug for those studs, since the other one was used as the pressure input in my test setup.  So I had to make another one.

After fixing that I found I’d forgotten to plug the blow down hole.  After addressing that, I found that I needed to plug the oil input stud in the steam tee.  Easily done.

After all that run around, I finally got it working.  I was able to add pressure. The snifter valve worked great and I was able to add enough pressure to get the first safety valve to blow.  I was trying to get it up to where the second safety valve would open too, but the o-ring I used on the manifold bushing blew out.  I tried replacing it, but I could never get it to hold more than about 80psi without blowing out.  I must have gotten lucky that first time to get it up to 100psi!

When I’m really sealing things up for good I’ll use that Loctite sealant which seems to work very well. But it wasn’t worth it for this test.  I was happy to use 70-80psi for now.

Here’s a quick video of me playing with the throttle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-TmOPkrPKw

If you hear some air escaping when things are stopped, that’s because I don’t have an o-ring around in the throttle valve stem.  I should have done that, but it was getting late for me to be out and I wanted to get my test video done.  But when things are sealed up right, it should be even better!

I’m pretty pleased with the results of my test. And I’m very excited to have my looming steam pipe issue resolved.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2023, 11:59:37 PM
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!

And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!

Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh?  :Lol:

Kim
Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine?  Ayuh!    :lolb:    The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride!  Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go.   :shrug:   We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened.  sigh.

Sorry to hear about the insurance company spoiling all the fun.  It is good to be safe, but sometimes we take 'safe' a bit too far.  What if you had people sign a liability waiver if they want to take a ride?  You know, all those trampoline companies and such do that.  You can't do anything without signing a paper saying that if they shoot you, you agree not to hold them liable.  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2023, 12:02:02 AM
Thanks, Michael, for the info on a real-world safety valve. It does look much more complex than this simple one!

And Ron, Thank you for the link to the article on safety valves. Very interesting!

Chris, OSHA must not be present for your Lombard demonstrations, eh?  :Lol:

Kim
Osha? Is that how OSh*t is pronounced in Maine?  Ayuh!    :lolb:    The insurance company caught up with us last year, and we are not allowed to give rides anymore. Big bummer for all, it was a super popular ride!  Apparently a couple years ago there was some accident at a hayride somewhere, probably at Halloween, and the lawsuits prompted all rides for everything to be shut down. The horse community got a law passed exempting horse drawn wagons from the ban, also anything purpose built for transporting people (like train rides with passenger coaches). Anything else is now a no-go.   :shrug:   We used to give rides on all three Lombards all day long, had lines of people waiting to sit on the wood pile in the back of the cab plus one lucky person up next to the steersman. They were just about to get a wagon top for the log sleds made when this happened.  sigh.

Sorry to hear about the insurance company spoiling all the fun.  It is good to be safe, but sometimes we take 'safe' a bit too far.  What if you had people sign a liability waiver if they want to take a ride?  You know, all those trampoline companies and such do that.  You can't do anything without signing a paper saying that if they shoot you, you agree not to hold them liable.  :Lol:

Kim
Waivers are a no go too - we asked about that, and quite a few of the visitors asked if they could sign a waiver! Only people we can have on the machines when moving are the museum volunteers. Guess we'll have to have a LOT of volunteers next year - anyone that comes in the gate!?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 19, 2023, 12:05:13 AM
Sorry for the side track just when you were posting your video of the engine running from the throttle!  It looks amazing, runs terrific in both directions, self starts, great speed control, everything!   :whoohoo: :cartwheel:

Go ahead and sleep in tomorrow, after being up all night running the engine!   :Lol:   Huge milestone. Great catch on the leaking pipe, glad you annealed it too for any minor flexing needed with final assembly.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 19, 2023, 12:14:52 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: She's a runner! Well done Kim! Major milestone.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 19, 2023, 12:27:43 AM
Well done Kim, Congratulations! You've earned yourself the adult beverage of your choice! :wine1: :cheers:
With a long enough air hose you can now set it on the floor and make it move. Track optional.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 19, 2023, 09:28:32 AM
 HUGE Congratulations from me too - great to see it All Working as it should and with a nice Throttle response  :praise2:   :cheers:

Per      :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on November 19, 2023, 04:00:11 PM
A milestone has been reached! Congratulations, that must have been very satisfying to start to see the engine become operational.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 19, 2023, 04:02:06 PM
Kim, I congratulate you.
It can be regulated well. Emotional vaping is possible.

 :cheers:

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 19, 2023, 04:52:49 PM
Thank you everyone!   :cheers:

Yes, it was quite the thrill to see it hold air and just take off running like that. Very exciting indeed!  :cartwheel:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on November 19, 2023, 09:01:22 PM
Wonderful      :cheers:     Well Done Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on November 19, 2023, 09:56:31 PM
Awesome Kim… :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 20, 2023, 05:14:04 AM
Thanks Terry and Don!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on November 21, 2023, 05:12:07 PM
It looks amazing Kim!

Erm - is the front wheel supposed to be jumping up & down like that?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2023, 05:43:06 PM
It looks amazing Kim!

Erm - is the front wheel supposed to be jumping up & down like that?

Thanks, Ade!  :cheers:

Well, yes and no...  The axle for the front wheels pivot in the center. So when the engine is suspended in mid air like it is on my test bench, there's nothing to keep the wheels straight. So on every power stroke the axle moves up and down.  If it were supported by track, it wouldn't be wobbling like that.

I'll have to figure out some way to hold the wheels steady when I'm suspending it like that.  I think last time I put some tape around the axle to help hold it more steady, but that looked funny.  Or maybe I'll just have to make a real test bed with bearings for the wheels to sit on :)

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: AdeV on November 21, 2023, 06:58:01 PM
Ah, cool, that explains it! Good to know it's not something that's about to explode in a cloud of balls and springs  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 21, 2023, 07:03:45 PM
For running my New Shay on air on the bench (and sitting on the short section of bridge trestle I display it on) I made some cradles that fit under the axles bearings between the rails, to raise the wheels just off the rails. Painted them dark brown so they don't show in the shadows under the engine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2023, 10:30:14 PM
That's a good idea, Chris.  I'm just seeing the ends of the frames on 2x4s  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2023, 02:23:05 AM
Chapter 29.1 – Steam Dome

On this engine, the Steam Dome's main goal in life is to cover the throttle and safety valves.  It is made up of two major parts; the saddle, and the dome itself. And for the past several days I’ve been working on the Steam Dome Saddle.  Not dramatically different than the saddle for the smoke stack, but it’s quite a bit bigger, which makes it more challenging.  For one, it’s harder to hold on to.  It’s a big, relatively thin round part.   I spent some time trying to figure out how to do most of the work while it was still attached to the parent stock, but then I couldn’t figure out how to hold it and finish the backside at the same time. Actually, I could figure it out, but it didn’t do any good to have additional stock that needed to be cut off because I'd still have to hold the skinny puck to clean up the backside anyway, so it didn't buy me much.  Consequently, I just decided to slice off the puck and go for it.  It’s a 2 3/4" diameter by ~1 1/4" thick slide of 12L14.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-01-KIM_2541.jpg)

The best method for holding that I came up with was the 4 Jaw. Luckily, one end was very perpendicular to the sides, so I used that to set things up against.  I should have made a nice lathe spider to simplify this setup, but I didn’t. I used a stack of various parallels between the face of the chuck and the back of the part during setup (held in with some tape, so they wouldn’t fall out as I rotated the chuck).  This worked to get things centered up and tightened in the chuck. Once that was done, I took out the stack of parallels before turning things on.  Then I faced the end and turned the first feature on the saddle. This will become the ring that the steam dome registers on eventually.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-02-KIM_2544.jpg)

Next, I drilled out the center in steps, up to 1” (my largest drill).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-03-KIM_2547.jpg)

Then bored the hole out to 1 15/32” diameter – just large enough to slide over the valve body.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-04-KIM_2549.jpg)

The last thing I needed to do in this setup was to make a 5/16” radius profile around the top edge of the saddle.  My original idea was to use a 5/8” diameter ball end mill as a form tool.  I tried this, but it was just very hard going.  The ball end isn’t really a very good form tool.  The cutting edge around the nose of the mill isn’t flat, it varies.  Here’s a pic of the tip of the 5/8” ball end mill. You can see that the business edge of the mill isn’t flat, like a good form tool should be so the whole edge can’t be on the centerline of the cut.  I set it at a bit of an angle to try and average the height difference so some would be a little above center and some a little below.   I made a red line just above the cutting edge to highlight my dilemma.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-07-KIM_2574.jpg)

When it became clear this would be too hard to do I made a step-off chart and approximated the 5/16” radius pattern, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-05-KIM_2552.jpg)

I tried the ball end mill again here, thinking that with most of the heavy cutting out of the way, I could use it to clean up the stair steps that were left.  I used my fat blue Sharpie to color the whole thing so I could see how I was doing.  However, even this proved to be too much for my poorly-shaped-make-do radius form tool.  Guess this is just too much to ask of it, eh?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-06-KIM_2553.jpg)

So, I went old school and used some files to clean up the stair-steps.  At least a some.  It’s not super clean but I’ve got a ton of filing on this part in my future anyway, so I’ll clean it up then.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-08-KIM_2555.jpg)

The next setup was to reverse the part in the 4-jaw.  I used the same “stack of parallels” trick to make sure the part was square with the jaw face and centered it up using the inside of the bore as the reference.  Then I faced off the back side to get the part to the correct thickness of 1 - 1/16”
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-09-KIM_2558.jpg)

Finally, I bored out most of the hole another 1/16”.  The boring went really well and I was getting a finish I was very pleased with.  However, about halfway through the finishing pass a chip must have gotten stuck on the cutting edge because there’s a weird streak on the bore.  You can barely feel it, but you can sure see it!  It won’t matter in the slightest, but it made me kind of sad anyway.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-10-KIM_2561.jpg)

That completed all the lathe work I could do using these setups.

Next, I’m going to have to make a faceplate setup to turn the inside face of the saddle.  Last time I did this (for the smoke stack) I set it up on the rotary table and did it on the mill.  Unfortunately, this part is too deep for me to do that way. I don’t have a mill that could reach all they way across it.  The longest mill I have is just over 3” and I need a 2 3/4" reach!  So using the boring bar on the lathe seems like the right way to go.  And it will be a new experience for me since I’ve never used the big faceplate on the lathe before!

But before I can do that, I have figure out how to set it all up. So that’s the next task.

One of the things I need is a nice little plug that will fit in the hole on the saddle to bolt it in place.  So I made that.  My intention was to make it from some 12L14, but what pulled out of the 12L14 pile seemed more like cast iron.  It turned easily but didn’t make chips like 12L14.  It made little chips – almost dust much of the time – more like cast iron would do. Plus (and this should have been my first hint) the bar was a bizarre size.  Bigger than 1.5”, but not 1.625”.  It was something like 1.578” to 1.582”.  Not very even round ether.  So I think it was a cast bar (i.e. cast iron).  So I relabeled it when I put it in the CI pile when I put it away.

Anyway, here’s the mounting plug for the saddle, just as I’m cutting it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-11-KIM_2563.jpg)

I did check the size and even did a test fit on the part, but I was going for a nice close fit...  I guess I got it too tight.  I couldn’t even get it to fit all the way through the hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-12-KIM_2566.jpg)

So, I used my little taig 3 jaw to hold the plug and carefully touched it with a file to shave a thou or so off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-13-KIM_2564.jpg)

And now it fits very nicely. Still a very good fit, but I can get it in and out (with some work).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-14-KIM_2568.jpg)

Here’s what it looks like from the top.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248a-SteamDomeSaddle-15-KIM_2570.jpg)

So that brings my build up to date.   Believe it or not, that’s what I’ve gotten done this week.  Doesn’t seem like much, but it’s taken me some time to get here.

The next step will be to figure out that faceplate setup. I’ve got a picture in my mind, I just have to get there. And yes, it’s going to look a lot like the setup Kozo suggests, so don’t be too surprised! But even at that, I have to figure out how to get it all held in place at the right spot on the faceplate.  So that’s my next challenge.

Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 23, 2023, 02:50:55 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 23, 2023, 03:17:15 AM
Great work Kim!  Amazing how much goes into what is (for the purpose of this model) 'just' a cover!

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2023, 05:25:38 AM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:

Amazing how much goes into what is (for the purpose of this model) 'just' a cover!
Ain't that the truth!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on November 23, 2023, 03:03:18 PM
Not only nice work on the set-ups and machining, but also in highlighting the little issues that always come up and describing your solutions. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 23, 2023, 03:35:22 PM
Thank you Ron!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on November 25, 2023, 08:14:38 AM
Congratulations on the running trial  :praise2: All looks and sounds good  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on November 25, 2023, 09:13:35 AM
Hi Kim,
 Nice work!
To get your curves did you think of swapping out the tool bit in your tangential holder? They hold a 1/4” round bit, broken center drills work well. The bit holder sharpener works for them too. Or you could get onto a side project & make up a ball turner.

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on November 25, 2023, 01:33:18 PM
This is.coming.along.very nicely Kim!     Won't be long now!

Love that little 2 piece jaw 3 jaw..     Taig?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 25, 2023, 05:13:30 PM
Thanks Roger, Kerrin, and Dave!  :cheers:

To get your curves did you think of swapping out the tool bit in your tangential holder? They hold a 1/4” round bit, broken center drills work well. The bit holder sharpener works for them too. Or you could get onto a side project & make up a ball turner.
Now there's an interesting thought!  I'll have to keep that in mind. That would have made a much smoother approximation - a lot less stairsteps to file out!

Love that little 2 piece jaw 3 jaw..     Taig?
Yup, it's my Taig 3 jaw chuck on a 3" mandrel that I made - held in the 1" collet on the collet chuck :)
Works really well for small and skinny things.  I have several sets of those soft removable jaws.  You can just shape them to fit whatever you want.  They're really nice.  And quite inexpensive!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on November 25, 2023, 05:57:41 PM
Nice work Kim. 
FYI, another way of tackling that large radius saddle cut it to use a boring head on the mill.  No long end mills or rotary table required. 

Cheers,
Mike
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 01:43:19 AM
Nice work Kim. 
FYI, another way of tackling that large radius saddle cut it to use a boring head on the mill.  No long end mills or rotary table required. 

Cheers,
Mike
Thanks Mike!

Yeah, that's a good point.  I had thought about that but didn't think my boring bar would get that big.  I was wrong.  It will get that big.  I should have actually checked, not assumed.  Ah well, I have learned a new technique now. And it wasn't terrible!  Just a lot of work, as you'll see in my next post!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 02:04:19 AM
Following our Thanksgiving festivities, I’ve been able to get back to the steam dome saddle.

I’ve never used this faceplate before, so I wanted to clean it up and make sure it was running true with the lathe.  First, I bored out the hole in the middle, so that I could use this feature to find the center of the faceplate.  I only skimmed 10-20 thou off,  just to make sure it was truly concentric with the spindle of the lathe.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-01-KIM_2576.jpg)

Then I faced off the faceplate.  Again, only taking off enough to be sure it was truly perpendicular to the spindle.  While I’ve turned cast iron before, I’ve NEVER turned anything that made the gross dust/sand-like chips that this made.  You can see piles of that grit on the tool post.  I did my best to vacuum it up before moving on. It was really dirty and gross!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-02-KIM_2579.jpg)

Now that I had the faceplate nice and square with the lathe, I took it over to my mill and found the center with the coaxial indicator.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-03-KIM_2584.jpg)

With that reference, I was able to bolt down an angle plate, positioning the face exactly 2.30” from the center line.  Note, the distance I’m using here is just a bit more than Kozo specifies – this is because my boiler jacket is made of slightly thicker material than he specifies.
The face of the angle plate also needed to be perpendicular to the radius.  I verified this by measuring the distance from the face of the angle plate to the faceplate center on each end of the angle plate.  It took some tapping back and forth to get the plate sufficiently square.  In the end, I settled for about 3 thou difference across the 3” of the plate. That works out to be about 0.05o off of square.  I decided I could live with that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-04-KIM_2589.jpg)

Now, to hold the saddle in the center of the angle plate I put two holes in the saddle plug and tapped them 10-32.  Note, the holes are offset from center to allow the saddle to be raised up off the front of the faceplate so I don’t have to bore into it. 
Then I made a steel 'double washer' from a scrap of 1/8” HRS with the holes spaced the same distance as the holes in the saddle plug.  And I made a set of spacer/washers out of 3/8” brass. The point of these is to hold the screws, and consequently, the saddle, in the center of the faceplate.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-05-KIM_2590.jpg)

Here’s the assembly mostly together before mounting the saddle itself so you can see how the brass spacers work.  In this picture, the saddle is positioned 180 degrees from where it should be.  The hole closer to the edge will be on the bottom of the fixture (toward the faceplate).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-06-KIM_2594.jpg)

And here we are, all set up on the lathe ready to go! This is how far I got yesterday.  I was going to post this yesterday, but never quite got around to it. So you're seeing it today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-07-KIM_2597.jpg)

The first thing I did today was to take a very light cut across the saddle with the boring bar.  Sadly, this cut did not go right down the center of the part as it should have.  You can see in this picture that it’s way off.  Why?  I was so careful to keep things centered. Where did I go wrong?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-08-KIM_2600.jpg)

So I took the faceplate off the lathe and moved it back to the mill.  I centered it up again with the coaxial indicator and started measuring.  Sure enough, the saddle was about 0.075” off of the center line.  I had carefully made sure the angle plate was perpendicular to the radius line, but I didn’t think to check that it was also centered on that radius line.  I had assumed that the radial slots on the faceplate were truly radial from the center.  This wasn’t necessarily the case apparently.
This shot shows me measuring the distance of the edge of the saddle compared to the center line of the faceplate (not the center of the angle plate).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-09-KIM_2606.jpg)

What I ended up doing was to just remove the brass spacers I’d put in place and took advantage of the wider slot on the angle plate to adjust the location of the saddle left and right so that it was then centered on a radius line.  I was able to get this to within a few thousandths also. Not the tightest tolerances, but I think they will be sufficient for this part.

With that done, I moved the faceplate back to the lathe and made a slightly deeper cut. This time, it came out nicely centered!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-10-KIM_2609.jpg)

This is a close-up of the saddle after I got it centered and took my second ‘confirmation cut’.  Note the two screws sticking up from the bottom of the fixture.  These will cause me problems later.  As of this moment, I was still thinking that they were sacrificial screws and I didn’t care if the boring process cut into them.  I was fine with that.  Or so I thought… (ominous foreshadowing.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-11-KIM_2611.jpg)

Measuring the diameter of the radius I was cutting was difficult.  This was my first approach, which is what Kozo shows in his book.  I found it pretty hard to get a very accurate measurement this way, but I used it for a while.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-12-KIM_2614.jpg)

After some boring time (insert boring joke here) the cut became just wider than the center hole and I was quite pleased to see that my saddle bore is nicely centered on the center hole.  This helped confirm that I really did have the part nicely centered.  I was pleased with this.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-14-KIM_2617.jpg)

All this boring was quite… uh… boring.  So I was playing around with some action shots. :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-15-KIM_2629.jpg)

As I was approaching the final diameter I noticed something odd and shut things down to investigate.  Turns out that those screws that poked through DID cause me some problems.  Apparently, they were MUCH harder than the 12L14.  As soon as the HSS cutter hit the first screw, it chipped the cutter and you can see the terrible finish left on the last 2/3’s of the cut, not to mention the big diameter change right there.  Unfortunately, I forgot to take a before shot that showed the evil screws.  This picture was taken after I implemented my ‘fix’ of using the Dremel to grind off the part of the screws that were sticking out.  I also sharpened the boring bar tool to get rid of the chip and honed it to a nice edge before moving on.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-16-KIM_2632.jpg)

Eventually, I moved to using the dial calipers to measure the diameter.  I got much better accuracy with this method. Well, at least I got more precision, maybe not more accuracy :)  But I liked this method better regardless  :Lol:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-17-KIM_2637.jpg)

And here is the completed saddle bore. I’m quite pleased with the finish here.  It came out very nicely, even if it did take me two days to do this!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248b-SteamDomeSaddle-18-KIM_2639.jpg)

As of the time of this writing I have left the saddle in the lathe setup.  I'd really like to be able to verify the radius using the boiler but I just can't figure out how to do that.  There's just too much stuff in the way.  So I may go with my 'best efforts' measuring.  But just incase I have some great idea overnight, I'm leaving it there for now.

Tomorrow, I’ll continue on with the saga of the steam dome saddle!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 26, 2023, 02:12:16 AM
Terrific sequence!  Aside from the Evil screws it went quite well.  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 26, 2023, 03:04:57 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 06:34:09 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

Yeah, aside from the evil screws...

Oh yeah, and the stupid assumption from the green machinist assuming:
1) the radial slots on the faceplate would align with the actual center of rotation
2) the slots in the angle plate fixture were well aligned and centered

I don't know why I assumed that.  I didn't assume the faceplate was flat or that the hole in the middle was centered.  I fixed those... but obviously didn't think quite deviously enough the first time!  :shrug:

That's what learning is about, I guess!  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: kvom on November 26, 2023, 08:05:58 AM
If you don't like cast iron swarf, castings aren't  for you.   :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: michaelr on November 26, 2023, 09:50:58 AM
Kim said As of the time of this writing I have left the saddle in the lathe setup.  I'd really like to be able to verify the radius using the boiler but I just can't figure out how to do that.  There's just too much stuff in the way.  So I may go with my 'best efforts' measuring.  But just incase I have some great idea overnight, I'm leaving it there for now.
Could you make a Cardboard or Plywood disc to the diameter of your boiler and use that to verify your radius, just a thought.


Michaelr
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 04:05:49 PM
If you don't like cast iron swarf, castings aren't  for you.   :LittleDevil:
Yeah, maybe not!   :Lol:
But I can say that this stuff was much worse than any other cast iron I've used.  I was wondering if maybe it was really cheap cast iron or something?  Or if they left a lot of sand on the surface and that was what I was seeing?  Whatever it was, i was none too pleased with it!  :disappointed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 04:08:22 PM
Kim said As of the time of this writing I have left the saddle in the lathe setup.  I'd really like to be able to verify the radius using the boiler but I just can't figure out how to do that.  There's just too much stuff in the way.  So I may go with my 'best efforts' measuring.  But just incase I have some great idea overnight, I'm leaving it there for now.

Could you make a Cardboard or Plywood disc to the diameter of your boiler and use that to verify your radius, just a thought.


Michaelr

That's a good thought, Michael.  Maybe I'll make a cardboard disk cutout of the boiler w/ jacket?  Not sure if I can be accurate enough making something in cardboard to beat my 'best effort' measuring technique though...  But I may give it a try.  I'd hate to find I needed to take a bit more off once I got it off the faceplate, you know?

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: DB BR 01 on November 26, 2023, 06:48:40 PM
How about a contour gauge? 6-in Stainless Steel Contour Gauge https://www.lowes.com/pd/General-Tools-Instruments-6-in-Stainless-Steel-Contour-Gauge/1016371
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 26, 2023, 07:14:54 PM
Yet another interesting idea!  I have a plastic one of these, maybe I'll give that a try!
Thanks DB BR 01!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 27, 2023, 12:18:30 AM
Well, I played around with the contour gauge that I have and it wasn’t really very satisfying.  Probably because it’s a cheap plastic thing, or due to my own ineptitude (or both), the slider gizmos would move around when I didn’t want them to, and it was just too hard to tell if things really fit right.  I could imagine that it was close though.  So I went ahead and took the angle plate off the faceplate and set that on the boiler.  It’s in the wrong place, but the diameter is the same.  And it seemed to fit pretty well.  I may have been just a bit over on the diameter, but not by much. And I don’t think it will be a noticeable thing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-01-KIM_2642.jpg)

With the saddle still held on the angle plate, I set it up in the mill with a 20 degree angle and milled one of the edges off.  This just makes less metal to have to remove with the file. It’s not a final shape or anything.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-02-KIM_2646.jpg)

Then the same on the other side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-03-KIM_2648.jpg)

Now I took it off the angle plate too. And after getting the plug out (non-trivial due to the bur left from machining), here’s the saddle, in its current state, sitting on it’s proper place around the steam dome (I’ve removed the throttle assembly).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-04-KIM_2650.jpg)

I did some chamfering around the inside edge to help it fit more flush with the boiler.  If you recall, I had some real thick solder around the steam dome.  And rather than mess with the boiler, it seemed prudent to deal with the clearance issue on the saddle side!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-05-KIM_2653.jpg)

Next, I need to make a fixture to hold the saddle for the final filing/finishing.  I departed from Kozo’s book again here.  He holds this fixture in the 3 jaw chuck.  I wanted to hold it in my collet chuck.  I’m much more comfortable having files (and my fingers!) around a collet chuck when it’s spinning than the jaw chucks.  Those jaws are awfully worrisome when spinning around - they just want to eat your fingers for breakfast!

I made the fixture from a 3” length of 2.25” 12L14 rod.  First, I took a section down to 1.125” diameter.  This will fit the largest collet I have.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-06-KIM_2655.jpg)

Now that it fits in the collet, I can hold it with the collet chuck.   I need to pan out a section to match the ridge on the saddle.  So I started the hole with a 1/2" end mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-07-KIM_2657.jpg)

Then bored the rest out with the boring bar.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-08-KIM_2659.jpg)

Next, I took the diameter down to 2.125”, which is the same diameter as the steam dome will be.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-09-KIM_2661.jpg)

Here’s how the saddle fits onto this fixture:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-10-KIM_2664.jpg)

Finally, I needed to make a way to fasten the saddle on the end of the fixture.  I already have a plug that fits well with the saddle, so rather than make another one, I chose to use that one.  Here I’m using a gauge pin to dial in the location of the holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-11-KIM_2667.jpg)

I was going to make two holes in the end to match the two holes already in the plug but I suddenly realized that those holes were tapped.  I thought about drilling them out for through holes, but instead, I decided to just put one new hole in the center.  This fixture shouldn’t have to take the same stress as the one on the faceplate, I’ll just be filing and finishing with this fixture.

So, here we are with the saddle hooked up to the completed fixture.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248c-SteamDomeSaddle-12-KIM_2669.jpg)

Tomorrow, the final shaping.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 27, 2023, 12:43:11 AM
Looking terrific!


For the filing thats left, isn't it  all hand filing to blend the shapes down the side of the boiler? Where will it need to be spinning on the lathe?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on November 27, 2023, 12:58:45 AM
Those black socket-head cap screws are always quite hard. I think they are Grade 8 in strength.

Ordinary hardware store screws, especially from places like Home Depot, tend to be relatively weak and much softer.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 27, 2023, 05:30:32 AM
Looking terrific!

For the filing thats left, isn't it  all hand filing to blend the shapes down the side of the boiler? Where will it need to be spinning on the lathe?
Thanks Chris!

Yes, it will be some hand filing, but I still need a way to hold it without ruining the nice thin saddle shape.  Plus, I think it will be much easier to sand the final finish while it is spinning on the lathe.  That worked well for the smokestack saddle at least.  Guess we'll see, if it was worth it to make this fixture or not!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 27, 2023, 05:33:08 AM
Those black socket-head cap screws are always quite hard. I think they are Grade 8 in strength.

Ordinary hardware store screws, especially from places like Home Depot, tend to be relatively weak and much softer.

Gene
That makes a lot of sense and matches what I saw.  Yes, I was expecting that they'd be fairly easy to machine.  Not the case.  Those black SCHS are certainly very hard, I can vouch for that!

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 27, 2023, 11:27:46 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2023, 12:14:03 AM
Thanks, Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2023, 12:20:34 AM
Using the nifty fixture to hold the steam dome saddle, I set in to file it into shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-1-KIM_2672.jpg)

It was taking a LOT of filing. I was wondering if I could do some of it with a Dremel tool or something.  Then it hit me – I have this cool small wheel attachment that I made for my 2x72 belt grinder!  So I put the small wheel attachment in and set the belt sander into horizontal mode.  I felt this would give me better access and visibility to the edges I wanted to shape.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-2-KIM_2680.jpg)

Here’s a staged action shot (with the belt not moving) showing how I was doing this.  The holding fixture made it much easier to hold the part, plus it protected the top edge of the saddle.  It’s important not to round over that edge at all, otherwise, there will be a groove between the saddle and the dome. And I don’t think we want that.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-3-KIM_2675.jpg)

I worked on that till I got the shape down about how I wanted it.  Now all I have to do is get rid of the deep grinding marks left by the 80 grit sanding belt. And actually, it's still a little lumpy, and that needs to be addressed too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-4-KIM_2685.jpg)

Back to the lathe.  Holding the fixture in the collet again I used files and very coarse sandpaper (60 grit) to smooth the lumps out of the shape I’d made on the belt sander.  I did some work on it with the part stationary (most of the filing) and also ran the lathe about 190 RPM for much of the sanding.  I ran the lathe both forward and backward during my sanding.  I started with 60 grit and worked my way up to 220 grit.  This took a lot of work to get the look I was going for, but I’m pleased with how it came out.  Not perfect, but good enough for painting.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-5-KIM_2687.jpg)

Now, off the fixture and over to the mill to cut a notch for the throttle neck.  I ended up having to cut my notch about 1/16” deeper than Kozo specifies in the drawing, otherwise the throttle assembly wouldn’t bolt in place tightly.  Not sure why this happened.  Maybe my steam dome base is too low somehow?  I do seem to remember some issue around this part when I was soldering it in place.  But I don’t remember thinking it was too low.  I’ll have to look into it more sometime.  Regardless, I don’t think it will matter that I made this notch a little deeper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-6-KIM_2689.jpg)

Here’s the completed steam dome saddle, ready for installation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-7-KIM_2691.jpg)

And here it is installed with the throttle assembly bolted in place.  I still haven’t done the trimming of the boiler jacket around the steam dome hole.  That should help the saddle sit a little more flush with the boiler.  But it’s not bad as is, so I’m pretty pleased! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/248d-SteamDomeSaddle-8-KIM_2693.jpg)

Next up will be the steam dome itself.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on November 28, 2023, 12:28:51 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Really nice blending job on the dome base Kim! The belt sander you built is just the ticket for that job.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on November 28, 2023, 01:03:31 AM
Came out great! That sander project was well worth it. That was a LOT of steel to move.    :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on November 28, 2023, 01:21:31 AM
Nicely done!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on November 28, 2023, 04:41:39 AM
Very good handwork! looks good 👍

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on November 28, 2023, 05:29:22 AM
Thanks Jeff, Chris, Dave, and Michael!  :cheers:

Yeah, I've quite enjoyed that belt sander!  It was a fun 'learn to weld' project and it has come in absurdly handy in many situations.  It's quite the versatile tool!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 03, 2023, 12:44:36 AM
Welcome to my series of unfortunate events.

I started on the Steam Dome a couple of days ago.  I have spent much of that time working out my sequence of operations. The part has a deep bore on one end and a dome on the other end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-Plans.jpg)

If you bore the part first, you could hold the bored end in the 4-jaw to shape the dome. This is Kozo’s suggested method. My problem with that is that my hands will be holding files REALLY close to the spinning jaws of death.  I just don’t like doing handwork close to those evil jaws,  you know?  They scare me!

But if you shape the dome first, how do you hold the dome end for boring?

I came up with some method of using a mandrel to allow me to use the collet chuck, similar to how I did the saddle. That was my first solid approach.

And to shape the dome I made a spreadsheet to calculate a step-off chart.  While was doing that, I came up with a different way to do it – where I could shape the dome AND bore the part in a single setup.  I liked this plan.  It used a longer piece of stock, but it kept my fingers a little further away from the chuck.

The complexity with the step-off chart is that I planned to use a radius tool to ease the steps (i.e. less filing & sanding later).  So I had to take the radius of the tool into account in calculating the step-off table.

Here’s my chart, showing a graph of how the shape should come out.  The red line shows the path of the tip of the radius tool, and the blue line is the tangent where it will be in contact with the desired dome shape.  The gray line on the left shows the 1/8” wide groove at the top of the dome (see the previous photo).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-2-KIM_2698.jpg)

You can also see a pencil line above the red & blue lines.  This is my roughing shape that I plan to do with a grooving tool.  I just thought it would make for a lot less material to remove with the radiused tip tool.

Now we get to cutting metal!  The part is made from a length of 2.25” 12L14.  Here I’ve faced off the end, turned it down to 2.135” (a shade over the final dimension of 2.125”), and did the bulk metal removal as shown by my pencil line on the graph above.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-1-KIM_2695.jpg)

Then I started forming the dome with the radius-tipped tool.   Unfortunately (first unfortunate event), it was at this point it started to dawn on me that my radius wasn’t looking right – it wasn’t matching up with the rough cuts I’d already made!  It took me a few minutes to figure out why… I’d forgotten to reset my Z-axis after I changed to the rounded tool.  It was off by more than 1/4"!  Ugh…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-3-KIM_2701.jpg)

Well, I thought for a bit and realized that there was JUST enough room to be able to flip the part around and try again on the opposite side of the part.  What a fortuitous accident, eh? How often does that happen? :)

After flipping the part around in the 4-jaw, I centered it on one of the previously rounded sections, rather than the outside of the part (which is only mostly round).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-4-KIM_2705.jpg)

And, just to be different from the first time around, I decided to drill the center hole for the dome all the way through (that is, 2.25” deep).  This would allow me to use a center while turning the part. It seemed prudent since the back end had less metal to grip on because of my aborted attempt to form the dome on that end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-5-KIM_2706.jpg)

Then I made the rough shape of the dome, the same as before.  This time, however, I remembered to set the Z-axis when swapping in the round tip tool.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-6-KIM_2709.jpg)

Now for my next ‘unfortunately’.

Unfortunately, as I was doing that - setting the Z-axis for the radius tool - things didn’t seem right. And after studying my situation for a bit I realized the problem.  I had thought that the diameter on this cutter was 1/8”.  That was an incorrect assumption on my part.  It is actually has a ~5/64” diameter, oddly enough.  This means I would have to redo my step-off chart.

So I sit down at the computer to make adjustments to the radius of tip.  Not hard to do, since my spreadsheet included a variable for the tip radius.  And here’s what my chart showed - the front groove doesn’t line up with the dome radius anymore!  (Yet another unfortunate event!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-BadUpdatedTable.jpg)

Then it dawned on me – since I’d thought the radius of the cutter was 1/16”, I took a shortcut there and just stuck a cutter-sized radius there for the groove.  So when the radius of the tip changed, so did the radius of the groove!  Now the groove is way less than the expected 1/8”.  Interestingly, Kozo doesn’t specify the width of this groove, so I guess I could make it anything I want.  But 1/8” seems about right since that made the edge of the groove, and the edge of the dome almost tangent, which is what they need to be to make this work.  I’d actually made the dome radius a few thou smaller than the specified 15/16” to make it work out before.  Now I’ll have to jiggle the radii to make it work out correctly in my new situation.

But that’s going to be a task for another day.  That’s all the fun I can handle in one day!

Thanks for following along in my series of unfortunate (and fortuitous) events!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 03, 2023, 12:55:42 AM
Carry on!

Like those old TV ads for Clairol (or some such product) only your hairdresser will know.  :cheers:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 03, 2023, 01:36:03 AM
If I was doing it,  I'd  bore the inside, with the small hole drilled through, then slip the bore over an expanding arbor which is held in the chuck, using the hole to run the hex wrench in to the screw to expand the arbor. Then shape the dome nice and far from the chuck jaws...  As usual, many ways to peel the feline!


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 03, 2023, 04:07:44 AM
Hi Kim, since the OD of the dome is a 2 1/8" dia cylinder, you could shape the outside on the end of a bar and then part off. Turn it around in the chuck to grip it on the OD and bore it inside. Some pop/soda can shims between jaws and work to protect your nicely finished dome would be a good idea. I believe the groove below the 1/16" lip at the small end of the dome is a decorative feature on the real engine, so a little deviation there from the Kozo plan won't hurt a thing. If it looks awful after you finish - add a pinstripe!  :Lol:

(as Chris said, there are many ways to put the body panels on yellow bulldozers)  :naughty:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 03, 2023, 04:17:41 AM
 :Lol:   Never made the connection to a  Cat-erpillar from that saying before!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 03, 2023, 05:19:32 AM
Carry on!

Like those old TV ads for Clairol (or some such product) only your hairdresser will know.  :cheers:

Gene
:ROFL:

Thanks, Gene :)

If I was doing it,  I'd  bore the inside, with the small hole drilled through, then slip the bore over an expanding arbor which is held in the chuck, using the hole to run the hex wrench in to the screw to expand the arbor. Then shape the dome nice and far from the chuck jaws...  As usual, many ways to peel the feline!
Well, my first plan was a nice close fitting arbor of 1 1/8" (the longest bored section). But then I'd only have a single bolt holding it in place.  Might be enough, but I was concerned about it spinning.  The expanding mandrel is a good idea.  I didn't think about that.  That's a good idea, Chris.

Hi Kim, since the OD of the dome is a 2 1/8" dia cylinder, you could shape the outside on the end of a bar and then part off. Turn it around in the chuck to grip it on the OD and bore it inside. Some pop/soda can shims between jaws and work to protect your nicely finished dome would be a good idea.
Good plan, Jeff!  I had considered that at one time but I'd still have to have enough material to hold the part out from the jaw so I could keep my fingers away from the jaws.  But may not be much worse than what I'm doing now :)

I believe the groove below the 1/16" lip at the small end of the dome is a decorative feature on the real engine, so a little deviation there from the Kozo plan won't hurt a thing. If it looks awful after you finish - add a pinstripe!  :Lol:
Yes, my thoughts exactly!  :Lol:

(as Chris said, there are many ways to put the body panels on yellow bulldozers)  :naughty:
   :lolb:

You guys are just too funny!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 03, 2023, 08:11:38 AM
Those are some fun curves to generate  ::)

Looking good  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2023, 12:09:46 AM
Thanks, Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2023, 12:13:42 AM
Yesterday I spent some significant and meaningful time with my spreadsheet.  I really got myself confused.  Part of my problem was that the X-axis of the lathe was represented on the Y-axis of the graph in my spreadsheet.  And the Z-axis on the lathe was represented by the X-axis on the graph.  This X->Y and Z->X thing always causes me to make some mistake and this time was no different.  But I eventually got it figured out.  Interestingly, there were also some errors in the way I was calculating things the first time around, but it didn’t matter as long as my 1/8” assumption held.  When I needed to change the diameter of the radius tool, that’s when the error reared its ugly head!

But, with my spreadsheet all worked out, I was able to move on and make chips today!

If you’ll recall, this is how I’d left the part the other day, with just the rough cuts completed. (Repeat picture from the last post, for the sake of convenience.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249a-SteamDome-6-KIM_2709.jpg)

I also added a LOT more steps to the spreadsheet.  I’d made them quite large in my first spreadsheet and I didn’t like that. So this time around I made no step larger than 5 thou, in at least one dimension (either X or Z).  So, after several hours of focused concentration, I had this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249b-SteamDome-1-KIM_2713.jpg)

Then I blued up the dome and went at it with files and sandpaper of various grits.  While this worked pretty well I was still playing a little closer to the swirling jaws of death than I’d hoped.  Regardless, I’m quite pleased with how it’s turned out!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249b-SteamDome-2-KIM_2715.jpg)

Now, my next decision is – Do I go with my current plan of boring it out in this setup?  Or should I part it off and recenter it the 4-jaw holding onto the flat part of the dome?

I originally thought I’d do the boring in this setup to maintain maximum concentricity.  But I’d probably be able to get plenty of concentricity re-chucking the part.  What do you think? Any advice? What would be best?  I won’t be doing this till tomorrow, so any real-time input on the topic will be appreciated!

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 05, 2023, 12:18:28 AM
The dome curve came out great!  Glad no phones rang or doorbells, um, belled, at the wrong time!

I would go with doing the boring on the current setup. Looks like plenty of meat in the connecting portion to keep it rigid, and its already centered up. Plus, you can directly measure the depth/diameter of the bore against the outside with calipers to make sure you are not creaping up on going through the wall of the dome. Just an opinion!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on December 05, 2023, 12:32:57 AM
Nicely done Kim!    There sure is a lot of whittling on that dome!   You have to be getting close now!?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 05, 2023, 12:37:15 AM
That's looking really nice, Kim. I agree with Chris, I would do the boring op in this set-up.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Mike R on December 05, 2023, 01:03:10 AM
I agree with keeping your current setup and doing the boring in the lathe.  The finished part has really thick walls, so it shouldn't ring like a bell when boring it out (despite looking like one!)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 05, 2023, 02:20:03 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great finish on the dome od's! I'd say it looks OK to bore it in this setup without a re-chuck too. Since the middle is necked I'd listen for chatter, if any starts, just slow things down in feed and rpm until it goes away. Good luck!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2023, 05:44:22 AM
Thanks for all the great advice!  I do appreciate it.

I think I'll be boring it out in the current setup.  It is pretty solid there, so I'm comfortable with that.  And even the skinniest part of the neck is over 1" in diameter.  This is 12L14, so  it shouldn't be too difficult to bore :)

Thank you all!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 05, 2023, 11:27:26 PM
As discussed, I drilled and bored the dome in the existing setup.  It worked quite well.  I did get a little ringing, especially on the final section.  I didn’t see evidence of the ringing in the cut but I could certainly hear it while doing the boring - it really did sound a bit like a bell!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-01-KIM_2718.jpg)

Now I’m ready to cut the dome off the stock.  I used my parting/grooving blade.  I like to use this one when I want a more even/straight part.  If I use the standard parting blade with the slight angle on the front it seems to make more of a convex part.  The flat end of the one I modified as a grooving tool results in a much straighter part.  Unfortunately,  I could only get about halfway into the cut before my tool quick change tool post got dangerously close to the workpiece.  So I stopped the parting and finished it up with the hacksaw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-02-KIM_2720.jpg)

Then I flipped it around in the 4-jaw and faced off the top.  I took an extra minute to center it up nicely and while I was facing it off, it was clear to my eyecrometer (a Blondihacks term) that my center hole had migrated a bit off of center. I probably should have completed the bore then drilled the last 1/2” at the small diameter, but I didn’t.  So, it’s about +/-10 thou off center.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-03-KIM_2722.jpg)

Next, I found the center hole using a gauge pin and drilled out a short countersink for the steam dome attachment screw (to be made later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-04-KIM_2724.jpg)

Then I needed to drill the two holes for the safety valves to stick through.  Since I knew the ‘center’ hole was slightly eccentric, I rotated the part to where it was centered left & right, which meant the off-centeredness would be mostly front to back. But by making the hole actual in the center left and right I hoped that the safety valves would have a better chance of matching up. Worst case, if they didn’t match well, I could just ream the holes out a bit.  But I didn’t end up doing that.  And for some reason, Kozo specifies these holes to be reamed to 9/32” (not just drilled). I don’t know what that’s about since the top of the safety valves are not a sliding fit, just a through hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-05-KIM_2726.jpg)

Now I could set the steam dome in place.  However, we have one more operation to do before it’s complete.  You can see that the throttle neck interferes with the seating of the dome.   We’ll need to take a bit out of the bottom of the dome to make room for it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-06-KIM_2728.jpg)

Kozo says to file the opening to suit but I thought there had to be a better way.  I was worried that if I filed it it wouldn’t look even.  And I wanted it to look really nice.  So I decided to use the 5/16 ball nosed mill just like I did for the steam dome saddle.

To get the dome setup in the right orientation I used a gauge pin to clock in on the two safety valve holes I’d just reamed.  This took a little fussing about, going back and forth between the two holes and carefully adjusting the rotation of the part, but I eventually got there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-07-KIM_2734.jpg)

Then, using the ball end mill I cut a shallow relief for the throttle neck.  I measured between the top of the saddle to the top of the throttle neck and milled out that much plus 15 thou for clearance.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-08-KIM_2736.jpg)

And it fits!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-09-KIM_2739.jpg)

I feel quite pleased with it. I think it looks pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/249c-SteamDome-10-KIM_2742.jpg)

That brings me to the close of the steam dome.  Next will be the sandbox.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 05, 2023, 11:42:50 PM
Thats just beautiful!!  Great result!   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on December 06, 2023, 12:35:56 AM
You really nailed it on the 2nd try! No chatter marks and the dome looks great sitting on the engine. I can see why you spent the extra time on this as it's so front and center on the engine.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on December 06, 2023, 12:44:37 AM
Beautiful Kim!
Nicely done!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 06, 2023, 12:58:25 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great job! looks excellent Kim.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 06, 2023, 02:05:41 AM
That's soo perty!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on December 06, 2023, 03:14:15 AM
Outstanding …… :Love:



 :ThumbsUp:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on December 06, 2023, 05:18:57 AM
Looks sharp, Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2023, 05:59:59 AM
Thanks, everyone!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 06, 2023, 06:37:00 AM
Beautiful Dome you have made there Kim  :praise2:

Per         :cheers:               :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 06, 2023, 03:19:33 PM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on December 06, 2023, 05:23:40 PM
Kim, I can see how precisely you worked in the reflection of the light on the metal.
It looks good on the boiler

Greetings Michael  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 07, 2023, 05:32:10 AM
Thank you Michael!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on December 07, 2023, 08:55:33 PM
Wonderful work Kim.            Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2023, 05:40:47 AM
Thanks Terry!  ;D
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 09, 2023, 11:19:32 PM
Chapter 29.2 – Sandbox Saddle, Sandbox and Cap

I’ve started on the saddle for the Sandbox now.

I’m using mostly the same process as for the steam dome saddle, with a few minor differences.  One is that I just turned the first part of the saddle on a longer piece of stock first, then cut it off.  I was able to do this because the piece of 2.25” diameter 12L14 that I have was short enough to allow it.

Here’ I’ve just shaped the lip for the sandbox dome and the cove.  I did this using the same type of step-off table as I developed before, just changing the radii.  I also made the stepsize much smaller so I'd have less work to do filing and sanding.  However, I may have gone too small!  This is what it looks like with absolutely no filing or sanding...  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250a-SandboxSaddle-1-KIM_2744.jpg)

I drilled and bored the center hole just under an inch deep.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250a-SandboxSaddle-2-KIM_2748.jpg)

Then I took the stock to the band saw, cut it off, chucked it back up in the 4-jaw, and faced off the end to length.  With that done, I centered it carefully on the existing bore and widened the bore just a bit about 2/3 of the way through.  This will allow a plug to hold the part while forming the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250a-SandboxSaddle-3-KIM_2750.jpg)

That’s how far I got today.  Next time I’ll make the plug for holding the saddle.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 10, 2023, 12:23:55 AM
You let the lathe tool do your filing. Nice!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 10, 2023, 02:01:31 AM
Those must have been microscopic steps!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2023, 05:22:18 AM
Thanks!  Yeah, small steps, but I think the rounded tool helped a lot - a rounded tool making a concave shape.  The dome was convex, so the rounded tool still left some pretty good peaks and valleys.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 10, 2023, 08:11:11 PM
If you hadn't 'fessed up' - a lot of us might not have suspected anything  ;)   ;D   :ThumbsUp:

Per        :cheers:         :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 13, 2023, 12:00:34 AM
Yesterday I made the fixture for holding the saddle while sanding and shaping and the plug for attaching it.  No pics, it’s the same as with the steam dome saddle, just a different size to fit the sandbox saddle.

Today, I bored the saddle shape on the bottom of the part.  As I did with the steam dome saddle, I used the mill to set up the sandbox saddle on the faceplate.  If you want to see how I did that you can  find it here (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8552.msg273818.html#msg273818).  This is what it looked like after completing this step.  Quite the lengthy process.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250b-SandboxSaddle-1-KIM_2752.jpg)

Next, I went back to the mill and shaved some off the sides of the saddle.  This time, since the saddle is smaller, the angle I cut was different.  I used 25 degrees this time, instead of 20 degrees.  But other than that, the same.  The little crescent/smile-shaped gouge there on the cove was a result of me clumsily crashing the edge finder into the part when I was setting it up for the boring operation.  I ‘think’ it will come out in the sanding/shaping.  If it doesn’t I'll likely just fill it - I don’t really want to do this all again.  Besides. the part will be painted anyway, so I should be OK.  My dirty little secrets, eh?!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250b-SandboxSaddle-2-KIM_2754.jpg)

After a lot of shaping, using the small wheel attachment on the belt sander, and sanding on the lathe (just like before) here it is sitting in its spot over the water fill bushing.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250b-SandboxSaddle-3-KIM_2756.jpg)
You can still see that gouge I made with the edge finder on the front, just a bit…  But it’s not too bad.  I’ll probably just mount it with that side toward the steam dome so that it’s front and center.  But I don’t even think it will be noticeable once it gets powder-coated.

I still have a few steps to go on the sandbox saddle, but it’s getting close to being done.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 13, 2023, 12:40:19 AM
Wow, came out great, like you took a disc and let it melt down over the boiler!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 13, 2023, 01:14:25 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The sandbox base looks great Kim! Nice finish.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 13, 2023, 01:16:29 AM
Quote
...like you took a disc and let it melt down over the boiler!   :ThumbsUp:
I thought almost the same thing, but Chris beat me to writing it! Nice work, Kim. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 13, 2023, 05:48:11 AM
Thanks guys!  :cheers:

It's my artwork - I was very inspired by Dali  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Keith1500 on December 13, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
I would be in line to fill the gouge with some soft solder and dress it back. That’s what I did with some sheet metal work that got a few dings in it.

Keep up the nice work.

Keith
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 13, 2023, 02:51:21 PM
Thank you Keith!   :cheers:
Good idea on the soft solder as filler  :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on December 13, 2023, 03:05:45 PM
Thank you Keith!   :cheers:
Good idea on the soft solder as filler  :ThumbsUp:
Kim

I would vote for JB Weld, if anything.

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 13, 2023, 03:51:46 PM
Does JB Weld take powder coating? I think you were planning to powder coat these parts?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 13, 2023, 04:00:35 PM
I doubt if anything came out of the Altoona Works in 100 point Concourse condition, even when brand spankin' new. I could barely find that little scratch in the photo. Personally, I'd go with your plan to turn it away from view, then I'd forget about it. I'd only fill it if it was bad enough to bug me in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 13, 2023, 08:28:13 PM
Looks really good Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Re - repair with soft solder .... @ what temperature do you cure your Powder Paint  :thinking:

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: DB BR 01 on December 14, 2023, 02:56:58 AM
Does JB Weld take powder coating? I think you were planning to powder coat these parts?

According to the FAQ there are high temperature JB Weld products

https://www.jbweld.com/faqs
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 14, 2023, 06:11:36 AM
JB Weld is likely what I'd use.  It is rated for up to 550oF*.  That should be plenty since the powder coating cures at 450oF.  And there's always the Extreme Heat version that's supposed to be able to go up to 1000oF.  But I don't think I'll need that.

Kim

* fine print: Continuous heat exposure of 500 degrees Fahrenheit and intermittent heat exposure to 550 degrees Fahrenheit.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on December 16, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Some more fine sculpting  :praise2:  :wine1:

Lead used to be used for filling in the seams on car bodies before the various resins were developed.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2023, 02:08:52 AM
These days leading up to Christmas are busy days!  Not much shop time. But still, a lot of fun!

Today I finished the sandbox saddle.  The last thing to do was to cut the flats for the sand pipes for attaching the sandpipes.

It took me a while to come up with a method I liked for doing this, but I’m quite pleased with the method I came up with.

I used the same fixture for holding the saddle as was used for sanding.  I held this fixture on the mill with a 3C spindexer.  Here I’m tapping it into position so that it is in line with the X-axis of the table.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-1-KIM_2758.jpg)

To define the middle of the saddle I placed the foot of the DTI on its edge and rotated the spindexer till I got the highest reading.  This may not be perfect, but it will be plenty accurate enough.  This defined my Zero Degree reference point for the saddle.  The sandpipe attachment points have to be +/- 15 degrees from that reference.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-2-KIM_2760.jpg)

Now, to determine where it is on the X-axis, I used the pointy edge finder to locate the top of the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-3-KIM_2763.jpg)

Now I can move down with a 5/32” center cutting end mill and make the flat spot for the sandpipes.  I did this by plunging straight down on each end, then plunging down on the middle, and running up and down to clean up the edges.  I made the lands a couple thou larger than 5/32”, according to Kozo’s drawings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-4-KIM_2765.jpg)

And after doing that three more times at the appropriate angle, we have the completed sandbox saddle!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-5-KIM_2768.jpg)

Here it is sitting in place waiting for me to make the sandbox dome.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-6-KIM_2770.jpg)

Though it took me a while to come up with this, I am really quite pleased with this order of ops.  I think it worked out quite well!

Thanks for stopping by for a visit,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 19, 2023, 02:16:16 AM
Quote
These days leading up to Christmas are busy days!  Not much shop time. But still, a lot of fun!
My experience these days also. Saddle looks great, but glad you're enjoying the "other" things too! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 19, 2023, 02:20:04 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 19, 2023, 02:23:56 AM
More beauty!




My shop elves would like to order some deep sea diving helmets. Same basic shape as the sand dome, just add windows...




 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 19, 2023, 05:01:36 AM
Thanks, Ron, Jeff, and Chris!  :cheers:


My shop elves would like to order some deep sea diving helmets. Same basic shape as the sand dome, just add windows...
Guess we'll have to see what Santa brings, eh?  Have the elves been naughty or nice?  Guess we'll find out!  :LittleDevil:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 22, 2023, 10:45:06 PM
A little more shop time this week – probably my last shop fun till after Christmas.  But there’ll be a lot of other fun between now and then! My weekend will be filled with Christmas festivities with the family. ;D

The dome for the sandbox was made from 1 5/8” diameter 12L14 stock.  The piece I have is about 9” long but it sits back in the 4-jaw chuck quite a ways so I could use it straight without having to cut off a chunk.  Makes for less waste!

I made a step off table, as I usually do for these kinds of things, and proceeded to spend a couple of fun hours playing etch-a-sketch on the lathe.  I made the steps quite small and the finish came out really nice.  I’d rather spend an extra hour playing DRO games than spend that time with files and sandpaper cleaning up the stair steps.  I just find it more fun and rewarding that way.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251a-SandboxDome-1-KIM_2772.jpg)

I did hit it with a bit of sandpaper to smooth things out a bit, but probably only 2-3 minutes at most, so it wasn’t a big chore.  And I think it looks pretty good!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251a-SandboxDome-2-KIM_2774.jpg)

Still a lot of work to do on the sandbox dome – a bunch of drilling and boring to go.  But that’ll wait till after Christmas.

So, I’ll take this opportunity to say Merry Christmas to you all!  Hope Santa is good to you this year, that you get some shiny new tools to play with, and that you get to spend some time with family and friends.  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on December 22, 2023, 10:56:48 PM
Excellent!




Do you need to hollow out the dome like the other one, or is this one mostly solid?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on December 23, 2023, 12:25:33 AM
Merry Christmas to you too, Kim! :cheers: :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on December 23, 2023, 01:24:53 AM
 :cheers: Merry Christmas to you too Kim, and to the other forum members. Don't forget to secure the spirit locker to keep the shop elves from spikin the eggnog with Navy rum!

Great looking Mk 3 torpedo sand dome!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on December 23, 2023, 05:23:26 AM
Thanks everyone!

Do you need to hollow out the dome like the other one, or is this one mostly solid?
It's mostly solid.  Only a little bore to make room for the water fill plug that it covers.  And for the screw that attaches it!

And yes!  Good call, Jeff!  The lock is on the spirit locker!   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 23, 2023, 09:23:16 AM
Thank you Kim and a very Merry Christmas to you and the rest of the Members here too  :cheers:

Another fine looking part, that will look great on the Locomotive  :ThumbsUp:

Per       :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 02, 2024, 12:31:05 AM

These days leading up to Christmas are busy days!  Not much shop time. But still, a lot of fun!

Today I finished the sandbox saddle.  The last thing to do was to cut the flats for the sand pipes for attaching the sandpipes.

It took me a while to come up with a method I liked for doing this, but I’m quite pleased with the method I came up with.

I used the same fixture for holding the saddle as was used for sanding.  I held this fixture on the mill with a 3C spindexer.  Here I’m tapping it into position so that it is in line with the X-axis of the table.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-1-KIM_2758.jpg)

To define the middle of the saddle I placed the foot of the DTI on its edge and rotated the spindexer till I got the highest reading.  This may not be perfect, but it will be plenty accurate enough.  This defined my Zero Degree reference point for the saddle.  The sandpipe attachment points have to be +/- 15 degrees from that reference.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-2-KIM_2760.jpg)

Now, to determine where it is on the X-axis, I used the pointy edge finder to locate the top of the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-3-KIM_2763.jpg)

Now I can move down with a 5/32” center cutting end mill and make the flat spot for the sandpipes.  I did this by plunging straight down on each end, then plunging down on the middle, and running up and down to clean up the edges.  I made the lands a couple thou larger than 5/32”, according to Kozo’s drawings.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-4-KIM_2765.jpg)

And after doing that three more times at the appropriate angle, we have the completed sandbox saddle!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-5-KIM_2768.jpg)

Here it is sitting in place waiting for me to make the sandbox dome.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/250c-SandboxSaddle-6-KIM_2770.jpg)

Though it took me a while to come up with this, I am really quite pleased with this order of ops.  I think it worked out quite well!

Thanks for stopping by for a visit,
Kim




That engine will be moving you around soon Kim!   I like the transition piece, those are always going to be something hard to make right and look right but you nailed it!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 02, 2024, 12:52:50 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2024, 05:23:42 AM
Thanks Dave and Jeff!  :cheers:

I'm off playing with my new Christmas present right now - the Mk4 upgrade for my Mk3 Prusa 3D printer! :)  I should have that done here soon(ish) depending on shop time, of course.  Then I'll be back to plugging away at my Pennsy!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the kind words, Dave!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 02, 2024, 01:17:33 PM
Thanks Dave and Jeff!  :cheers:

I'm off playing with my new Christmas present right now - the Mk4 upgrade for my Mk3 Prusa 3D printer! :)  I should have that done here soon(ish) depending on shop time, of course.  Then I'll be back to plugging away at my Pennsy!  :ThumbsUp:

Thanks for the kind words, Dave!
Kim
You'll love that Mk4 upgrade, did mine a couple months ago. Much faster than the Mk3!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 08, 2024, 11:31:52 PM
After a brief hiatus for the holidays and assembling my 3d printer upgrade, I got back to finishing up the dome for the sandbox.

I’d completed the dome last year, so this year, I drilled a center hole all the way through the part (#19) then bored out a small section for the mounting screw and a cap to cover it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251b-SandboxDome-1-KIM_2783.jpg)

I started parting the dome off the stock but thought ‘This is silly’ and brought it over to the bandsaw, which made short work of removing the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251b-SandboxDome-2-KIM_2785.jpg)

Back to the lathe where I faced the sawed end to length then bored a hole to make space for the water filler cap. Then bored a shallow section to mate up with the rim on the Sandbox Saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251b-SandboxDome-3-KIM_2789.jpg)

Here’s the completed part:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251b-SandboxDome-4-KIM_2792.jpg)

And here it is sitting in its spot on top of the saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/251b-SandboxDome-5-KIM_2795.jpg)

Next up will be the cap to cover that hole on top.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rustychip on January 08, 2024, 11:41:12 PM
it took a year to make that dome, boy, I thought I was slow.   :ROFL: :lolb:

Seriously, that engine is looking super, extra good.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2024, 12:02:02 AM
it took a year to make that dome, boy, I thought I was slow.   :ROFL: :lolb:
:lolb:

Yeah, I'm no speed demon, that's for sure!  I leave all the speedy work to Chris!  He'd have had this project done 5 years ago  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 09, 2024, 12:16:19 AM
Everything is looking real nice Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 09, 2024, 12:34:59 AM
Sweet!  You are getting really good at the domes.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 09, 2024, 12:52:17 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Top notch domes Kim! Nicely done.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rustychip on January 09, 2024, 12:53:48 AM
Speed only mattered for me in the job shop, with the boss breathing down your neck, but even then you needed to know when to slow down.

Besides this is a hobby, it is supposed to be fun, right. Why rush and possibly get hurt or have to remake parts, mostly don't get hurt, that takes the fun out of it.

Well that engine will/is something to be proud of.   :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2024, 05:21:24 AM
Thanks everyone,  I'll be happy to get on to something besides domes soon!  ;)

Couldn't agree more, Rustychip!  It's all about fun, at least for me.  And as long as I keep my shop sessions to a few hours, I have a lot more fun.  When they turn into long marathon sessions or I'm focusing on getting a certain amount done, the fun evaporates really quickly for me.  Thanks!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on January 09, 2024, 07:56:18 PM
Lovely work Kim :ThumbsUp:          Terrry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2024, 10:33:39 PM
Thank you, Terry!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 09, 2024, 10:37:49 PM
Today is all about the cap for the sandbox.

This was made from 5/8” round 12L14 rod.

I started by facing it off and turning a section down to ~15/32”.  The actual number is not as important as the fact that it fit nicely into the hole bored in the top of the sandbox dome.  Then I drilled A 5/16” hole a short way into the bottom of the cap.  I believe this is to allow space for the head of the hold down bolt that will eventually be inserted into the sandbox dome.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-1-KIM_2809.jpg)

After parting off the cap piece at 5/8”, I flipped it around in the collet chuck and turned the basic shape for the top of the cap.  The nubbin in the center will be shaped into a round ball, and the larger disk will be gracefully curved to look pleasing :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-2-KIM_2811.jpg)

And that’s what I did next. Using a selection of small files and sandpaper, I shaped a ball and graceful curve.  I did this freehand and I think it turned out pretty nice.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-3-KIM_2816.jpg)

Here’s a closeup of the completed cap:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-4-KIM_2819.jpg)

And here it is, all stacked up on the top of the sandbox.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-5-KIM_2821.jpg)

Another beauty shot, just because I can  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/252a-SandboxCap-6-KIM_2823.jpg)

Thanks for looking in on my progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rustychip on January 09, 2024, 11:22:34 PM
Looks fantastic, a screw holds down the sand dome and the cap covers the screw, what holds the cap in place??
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 10, 2024, 12:49:16 AM
Lovely! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on January 10, 2024, 03:35:33 AM
Nice job--looks very elegant.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2024, 05:39:19 AM
Thanks, Rusty, Ron, and Doug!  :cheers:

Looks fantastic, a screw holds down the sand dome and the cap covers the screw, what holds the cap in place??
Gravity, and a little bit of friction?   :D

It actually stays in there pretty well, unless you turn the whole engine upside down, I think the cap will stay in place.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 10, 2024, 08:11:41 PM
She's getting more and more curveu (sp?)  ;D

Nice free hand filing  :ThumbsUp:

Per        :cheers:        :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2024, 08:56:41 PM
Thanks Per!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2024, 08:59:47 PM
Chapter 29.3 – Water Plug and Gasket and Bolts

Today’s work was on the water plug and gasket.  The mounting bolts are listed here because that’s what this section covers in Kozo’s book.  But they will be tackled another day.

The water plug was made from 7/8” diameter 360 brass rod.  I faced it off, turned it down to 25/32” in diameter, then turned down a length at the end for the threaded bit. I also cut a relief at the base so the threads could bottom out when being screwed in.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-1-KIM_2825.jpg)

Then I did the threading.  This is a 1/2"-20 thread which is a mighty big die.  I can’t hold that size of a die in my tailstock die holder so I used a regular die holder and kept it perpendicular to the work using the end of the drill chuck.  Seemed to work pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-2-KIM_2827.jpg)

Then I parted the plug off the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-3-KIM_2829.jpg)

And turned it around to hold it the other way in a 25/32” collet so I could drill and tap a 5-40 hole for the sandbox hold-down screw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-4-KIM_2831.jpg)

The final operation for this part was to cut a hex head on the top side.  I did this on the mill using a hex collet block.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-5-KIM_2833.jpg)

I made a hack at cutting a gasket out of some 1/64” gasket paper.  This is my 2nd attempt.  It looks better than the first, but it won’t win any beauty contests, that’s for sure!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-6-KIM_2836.jpg)

And finally, here the gasket and plug cozied into the water fill hole on top of the boiler.  Now you see it…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-7-KIM_2838.jpg)

Now you don’t!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/253a-WaterPlugAndGasket-8-KIM_2842.jpg)

Next up, as I said before, will be the hold-down bolts.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 10, 2024, 09:40:43 PM
Nice!!   What goes in that hole just forward of the water plug, the bell?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2024, 05:28:18 AM
Thanks, Chris!  :cheers:
Nice!!   What goes in that hole just forward of the water plug, the bell?

Yes, that's where the Bell will be mounted.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on January 11, 2024, 06:13:26 PM
Are you also going to make a screw-on funnel for filling, or are you a direct-to-hose type of person?

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2024, 10:29:38 PM
Are you also going to make a screw-on funnel for filling, or are you a direct-to-hose type of person?

Wilf
Now there's something I hadn't considered!   :Lol:

I doubt I'll make a screw-on funnel though.  I have a plastic funnel that will fit well enough and will serve for the minimal number of times that this loco is likely to get filled and fired up.  If I had a local track with 3.5" rails to play on, I might consider it.  But none exist around here (that I know of anyway) so I've been building this knowing it will be a display piece, which is fine with me.  I'm more about building the engine than running the engine.  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 11, 2024, 10:34:30 PM
The hold-down bolts for the domes were made from 1/4" 303 stainless steel rod.  I started by cutting the end down to 1/8” and making 45o angles at the top and bottom of this section.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/01-KIM_2844.JPG)

Then I threaded that bottom end 5-40.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/02-KIM_2848.JPG)

These are fairly long bolts for the diameter (5/32”) – one is 2” long and the other is 1 3/16” in length. So I cut the shank of the bolt in sections.  I cut the first bit to size, taking note of the place I stopped – it was 0.9” from the tip.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/03-KIM_2851.JPG)

Then I moved the tool out 0.5” and slid the rod out to where it touched the flat I’d left and reset the X-DRO for this position to be 0.9”.  That gave me room to complete the remainder of the shank of the short bolt.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/04-KIM_2854.JPG)

And then form the size for the head of the bolt:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/05-KIM_2856.JPG)


Reposition the compound slide to 30o and taper the bottom of the head of the bolt.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/06-KIM_2859.JPG)

And finally, cut the bolt off to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/07-KIM_2863.JPG)

To finish off the bolt, I cut a slot in the head using a 0.040” slitting saw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/08-KIM_2865.JPG)

After repeating these steps for the 2” bolt, here’s what I ended up with:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/09-KIM_2869.JPG)

Now, to see if they fit in the domes and hold things together… And yes, they do!  I was a little worried I’d have to adjust the length of the bolts, but they worked right away.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/10-KIM_2873.JPG)

Now for the parting shot of everything assembled up to this point including the sand dome cap:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/11-KIM_2876.JPG)

That will conclude today’s update, thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 11, 2024, 10:50:31 PM


 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcornsmall:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 11, 2024, 10:50:48 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great looking bolts Kim, nice job!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2024, 12:00:45 AM
It’s been mighty cold up here in the Northwest!  At least mighty cold for us. It has been 13-15 degrees Fahrenheit since Friday of last week and we’re just barely climbing out of that now.  We got snow, and ice, and wind.  A terrible combination.  My sister and her family were without power for 4 and a half days (just got it back late last night). That’s a big lot of no fun.  While I never lost power, it was just too cold for me to want to spend much time out in my shop.  But, as things are supposed to be improving, and it’s actually above freezing now (though just barely) I tried my luck out there today.


Chapter 29.4 – Sandpipes and Screws

The sandpipes will run from the sand dome down to the front and back of the drivers.  These will actually be just rod, nothing tube/pipe about it.  They’re just for looks.  But a cool detail, never the less.

The first part to make for the sandpipes is the foot piece.  This is a very complex little piece that connects the sandpipe to the sandbox.  I’m loosely following Kozo’s recommendations here.  He gives you an idea of the process but not each step.  I guess he’s decided that we’ve graduated past that and can take on this more complex task.  We’ll see if I’m up for it or not.

He does give a few very good suggestions and shows a basic process of setting up a shape and slicing it like bread to make the parts. (one of my favorite methods for little parts like this!).

But I was having quite a time thinking of how to hold this part for machining.  I’d originally planned to use 3/8” x 1/2" 1018 bar for this since it more closely matches the dimensions needed.  But after some thought, I chose to make the sandpipe feet from 1/2" square 12L14 stock, as this would let me use the 5C spindexer to hold the part for most of the work.  I was pretty proud of myself for that one!  :embarassed:

The first thing I did was to cut the 1/2" stock down to the rectangle shape recommended by Kozo.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-1-KIM_2879.jpg)

[spoiler alert]
I should have drilled the series of holes at this point – holes for the screws to attach the sandpipe feet to the sandbox.  But I stupidly forgot that step, even though Kozo says to do it first, AND I had it listed as my second step on my order of operations.  Guess I just didn’t look at my list, did I?  :facepalm2:   I made it past this regardless, so don’t worry too much. But if anyone is following along at home, I’d seriously recommend doing the holes while things are flat, rather than waiting till it’s all wonky, like I did.
[/spoiler alert]

Next, I rotated the spindexer the specified 47o (which took some thinking, because the horizontal position, which I was calling 'zero' wasn’t actually lined up with zero on the spindexer) and milled one side off to create the front facing angle of the foot.  Luckily, I checked the angle here and saw that my angle was wrong.  Then I realized that I needed to set my spindexer for the complementary angle (43o) rather than the specified angle (since he was specifying from the vertical, not the horizontal).  :slap:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-2-KIM_2881.jpg)

After I fixed my angle error and shaved a bit more off the edge, the angle came out right.  Then I used the side of the mill to cut the back edge at 90o to the angled face I’d just cut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-3-KIM_2883.jpg)

Next, I adjusted the angle again (very carefully!) and cut a notch in the back side on the bottom.  I used my ‘finely honed’ trig skills to calculate the depth of cut required for this cut to get the corner to come out in the right place…  I think…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-4-KIM_2887.jpg)

Now, another angle adjustment on the spindexer, and I cut the last section parallel to the original angled cut on the top side (now on the bottom in this picture).  This one had to match up with the corner of the cut I’d just made in the previous step.  I took this one very slow and kept dialing it back a few thou at a time till I got it JUST the way I wanted.  And it turns out, my trig skills worked out OK after all! Which just goes to show you, accidents do happen!  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-5-KIM_2889.jpg)

With all the shaping done on the feet, I decided it was time to see if I could get out of the mess I’d made by forgetting to drill the mounting holes first.  The reason for doing it first is, of course, that you’d be drilling into a flat plane.  Once you’ve got all the angles here, you’re drilling into a slope.  Not the easiest thing to do!  So, clearly, I needed to at least start the holes with an end mill.

Kozo specifies a #32 (0.116) drill for the large hole for the screw heads. This is a little smaller than 1/8” (0.125) and a bit larger than 7/64 (0.1094”).  As it turns out, I had both of those sizes of end mills.  I chose to go with the slightly smaller one since I was worried that the slightly larger one might change the look of things more.  So that’s what I did.  These holes go down to within 3/64” of the bottom of the foot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-6-KIM_2894.jpg)

Next, I sequenced through the holes with a tiny center and then a #52 drill.  The #52 is the tapping size for 1-72 and will be used to guide the drilling of the mounting hole in the sandbox saddle.  After that, it will be drilled out to the through size for a 1-72 screw.  Then I used a 7/64” 119o point drill to cut a taper in the bottom of the hole for the head of the screw. (Kozo specifies a 30o angle on the head of the mounting screws – probably to help center them?)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-7-KIM_2898.jpg)

I’ve probably mentioned this before, but Kozo specifies 1-64 for all of his #1 sized screws.  However, when I was purchasing hardware for this build, I couldn’t source 64 TPI screws.  So, I went with the 1-72, since for some reason, I found those more readily available. Just more of the many little differences between my build and Kozo’s drawings.

And finally, one more change in angle with the spindexer and I drilled holes for receiving the sandpipe.  Here again I've changed some of Kozo's sizes.  He specifies the sandpipes to be 0.118” (interestingly, that works out to 3mm).  I have chosen to make my sandpipes 1/8” instead (0.125”) since that was more readily available to me, and I doubt that anyone will notice that extra 7 thousandths in diameter.  Besides, I figure the extra diameter will just help my sand reach the drivers that much more readily!  (Other than the fact that it’s a rod and not a pipe!  :naughty:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255a-Sandpipes_and_Screws-8-KIM_2900.jpg)

This is where I stopped for the day. Next time I’ll set up the bread slicer and see if I measured everything correctly.

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on January 19, 2024, 01:09:32 AM
Nice start at playing sandpiper, Kim. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Quote
It’s been mighty cold up here in the Northwest!
We're driving up there next week, so I'm glad that snow and ice storm is over!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on January 19, 2024, 02:03:02 AM
Awwwwww some excellent work Kim….. :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 19, 2024, 04:41:40 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great lookin sander fittings Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2024, 05:36:12 AM
Thanks Ron, Don, and Jeff!   :cheers:

Hope you have a good trip, Ron.  It can be ugly coming up over Shasta even when we aren't having a storm in Portland, so be careful and be safe!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on January 19, 2024, 09:00:45 AM
A small piece and still a lot of work.
You did well.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on January 19, 2024, 10:05:28 AM
 Nice work Kim! The whole project is really coming along.

Have recently got home from our sons place a bit north & across the boarder from you. It got down to -10 C while we were there. Last week it was in the -40’s C! Far too cold for this soft kiwi! Mean time back home we are in the mid to hi. 20’s C

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2024, 05:55:46 PM
Thank you Michael and Kerrin!  :cheers:

Hope you had a fun visit despite the weather, Kerrin!   :D
Yeah, it's just been TOO cold here (and even colder up north!)  I'll be happy to get back to our standard 'soggy' winters rather than this snow-ice stuff!  :(

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2024, 10:57:27 PM
Had a short shop session today, so it will be a brief update.  But nudging the project forward, nonetheless.

The first order of business today was to slice the bread, or the foot, as the case may be (as long as it’s not MY foot! :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255b-Sandpipes_and_Screws-1-KIM_2904.jpg)

The slicing went well, so I cut the rod (1/8” 12L14) that I’ll be using for the pretend sandpipes.  I cut it a bit long and will trim it after I’ve soldered and shaped it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255b-Sandpipes_and_Screws-2-KIM_2906.jpg)

Next was the silver soldering.  That all went fine – the second time around.  The first time, the rods popped right out of the feet when the flux started to boil.  I did anticipate this but hoped that the rods would be heavy enough to stay in place. They weren’t.  So, I set some weight on the ends of the rods during soldering, which made them stay.  I had to move it a couple of times during soldering, but it all worked out in the end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255b-Sandpipes_and_Screws-3-KIM_2909.jpg)

The next order of business will be some time in the pickle, then I’ll start shaping the foot.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255b-Sandpipes_and_Screws-4-KIM_2912.jpg)

That’s my progress for the day.  Thanks for checking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 20, 2024, 12:42:19 AM
And that is good progress Kim! Keep your feet warm and watch for falling tree limbs.
We have set a record for snow in January that beat our snowmageddon of 2017.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 20, 2024, 03:30:17 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2024, 05:39:39 AM
Thanks Dave and Jeff!  :cheers:

And that is good progress Kim! Keep your feet warm and watch for falling tree limbs.
We have set a record for snow in January that beat our snowmageddon of 2017.

Dave

You guys always have more winter than we do, but even this has been cold for you, eh?

The cold snap over here has drug out yet another day - more freezing rain earlier today.  But TOMORROW it's all over... they say...  :-\

Hope you're power stays on and that you stay safe, Dave!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 20, 2024, 11:24:56 PM
Made a little more progress today.  These sandpipes are a lot more work than they look!

With the feet soldered to the pipe (rod) I put them in the collet chuck on the lathe and turned down the end to make it round.  Kozo shows the first section being 0.150” in diameter, and the last little bit to be 5/32”, which is 0.156”. That’s a very tiny bit of difference! None of mine came out to be exactly what he specifies, but they all look about right visually, which I think is more important with these parts. The holes I drilled for the rod weren’t always exactly centered, plus, the feet weren’t soldered perfectly straight on the rod – most were skewed a bit to one side. But in spite of that, I think they all came out OK.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255c-Sandpipes_and_Screws-1-KIM_2914.jpg)

With the initial rounding done, I then used files to round off the ends and the top of the ‘foot’ to make it a pleasing (ish) shape to fit into the sandbox saddle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255c-Sandpipes_and_Screws-2-KIM_2917.jpg)

Next, I drilled the #52 hole for the fastening screw.  I held each sandpipe in place by hand and started the hole with my cordless drill.  With the hole started, I put the sandpipe down and finished drilling the hole.  I know Blondiehacks won’t drill small holes with her hand drill because the speed is too slow.  And yes, the speed is slower than ideal, but this has worked fine for me.  I just have to hold the drill steady, using both hands with my arms/elbows carefully braced to keep me from putting any undue stress on the little drill.  It probably helps that this is 12L14 too.  While it is still a bit worrying, it has worked OK for me when I can't figure out a better way to get things aligned on the mill.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255c-Sandpipes_and_Screws-3-KIM_2922.jpg)

And now, to tap the holes 1-72.  I generally like to use a tapping guide for little holes, but on this bizarre shape, I just couldn’t figure out how. So using my favorite little tap handle, and taking it very carefully, I tapped out all four holes.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255c-Sandpipes_and_Screws-4-KIM_2925.jpg)

Then I reamed out the small #52 holes in the sandpipes to #48 (close fit through holes for 1-72) and temporarily attached them to the saddle.  These temporary screws don’t hold the sandpipes as well as the real attachment screws will, consequently, you can see gaps along the top (which is front in this picture) of the feet.   But I’m confident the real screws (to be made next) will resolve that issue.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255c-Sandpipes_and_Screws-5-KIM_2929.jpg)

Next step, is to make those hold down screws, then shape the sandpipes.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 21, 2024, 09:53:35 AM
I've been away a few evenings and you have made a lot of progress (tiny bits) Kim.

Good to see and even better when it all is in place  :ThumbsUp:

Per   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 21, 2024, 01:43:18 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on January 21, 2024, 02:43:16 PM
Nice work on some surprisingly tricky bits  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2024, 05:43:33 PM
Thanks, Per, Jeff, and Rodger!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 21, 2024, 06:08:19 PM
I like that little tap wrench Kim!   small enough to go in the tap box ad have one handy with all the small taps.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 21, 2024, 07:39:40 PM
Thanks Dave! Yeah, that's my favorite little tap handle! It really gives you a good feel when working with those small taps.  And it's so light you don't feel like you'll accidentally bend the tap and snap it off.  Its a great little tap wrench for sure!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 23, 2024, 10:25:55 PM
I next made the mounting screws for the sandpipes.  These were made from 1/8” 303 stainless steel rod. I turned the shape of the screw and threaded it, 1-72:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-1-KIM_2932.jpg)

And slit the head on the mill with a 0.020” slitting saw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-2-KIM_2936.jpg)

Here are the four completed mounting screws.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-3-KIM_2938.jpg)

And this shows all four of the sandpipes connected to the saddle with the official mounting screws.  And yes, they do mount much more flush when using the actual mounting screws :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-4-KIM_2942.jpg)

Next came the task of forming the sandpipes to the correct shape so the sand would be deposited right in front of (or behind) the drivers.

My first attempt ended in a minor catastrophe.  I knew it wasn’t a good idea to bend the rods using only the mounting screw to hold it down, so I was holding the foot in the vise.  But I realized I was starting to crack the foot at the really thin section between the hole that holds the rod and the rest of the foot.  I quickly went and silver soldered the crack that was forming, hoping that would prevent a full break. Which seemed to work.  And I proceeded being MUCH more careful not to put any stress on the foot when bending the rod.

My bending method was using some non-marring plyers, the vise (with aluminum jaws), and just using my hands to bend a pleasing curve in the rod.  It is quite a complex curve, however, more of a helix shape.  And it was very difficult to hold the rod and get the bend/twist where I wanted it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-6-KIM_2949.jpg)

For the ends of the pipes that curve around the drivers, I ended up using my old sample wheel as a form and using a brass hammer to help curve the end of the rod that way.  Not perfect, but it helped significantly.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-5-KIM_2944.jpg)

After I got the shape about as good as I could get it, I used the belt sander to trim the length and put the angle on the end of the sandpipe.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-7-KIM_2954.jpg)

Here are the two right side sandpipes done(ish).  You can see I had to take off the sideboard and disconnect the throttle rod in order to get good access for test fitting the sandpipes while bending.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255d-Sandpipes_and_Screws-8-KIM_2958.jpg)

I still have the other side to do, but that’ll be tomorrow’s project.

If I were to do this again, I would definitely use brass rod for this.  I think that would have made this forming process much easier.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on January 23, 2024, 10:37:28 PM
That IS a quite complex shape!  Do the screws at the dome end stay that long? Why do they stick out so far?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 23, 2024, 11:59:13 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The sanding "pipes" look great Kim.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2024, 05:25:27 AM
Thanks Chris and Jeff!  :cheers:

That IS a quite complex shape!  Do the screws at the dome end stay that long? Why do they stick out so far?

I don't know why they stick out that far, but that's what the plans show.  I'm thinking it won't show up quite as much when it's all painted black.  But that raises another difficulty... how do you hold onto those itty-bitty screws to paint them?  Guess I'll figure that out when the time comes, eh? :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on January 24, 2024, 08:26:00 AM
Hello Kim,

In the end you did a good job with the pipes. Bending steel pipe is not as easy to bend as brass or copper pipe.
When I was still an apprentice and had to bend steel pipe (15 mm) in the company where I wanted to learn the profession, I sweated a lot. The master wanted all the bends of the 6 m long rods to be made at once with the bending device. And don't cut the pipe into many small pieces. These were measuring lines for the water level from a steam boiler with 40 bar steam pressure and a welder with the appropriate certificates had to come to each separation point.
I don't really like bending long pipes.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 24, 2024, 04:30:38 PM
A trick I use sometimes when painting tiny screws is to screw the non painted end into a potato or carrot chunk. The screws seem to hold firmly with this method and handling is much easier for tiny ones than using holes in cardboard (my usual method for bigger screws #8-32 and up in size). The veg chunk has some weight so they don't get blown around by the paint propellant. Hope the idea helps.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2024, 06:20:17 PM
Hello Kim,

In the end you did a good job with the pipes. Bending steel pipe is not as easy to bend as brass or copper pipe.
When I was still an apprentice and had to bend steel pipe (15 mm) in the company where I wanted to learn the profession, I sweated a lot. The master wanted all the bends of the 6 m long rods to be made at once with the bending device. And don't cut the pipe into many small pieces. These were measuring lines for the water level from a steam boiler with 40 bar steam pressure and a welder with the appropriate certificates had to come to each separation point.
I don't really like bending long pipes.

Michael

Thanks Michael!
Sounds like quite the job bending that steel pipe!  Seems like you learned you're profession well!   :D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 24, 2024, 06:22:04 PM
A trick I use sometimes when painting tiny screws is to screw the non painted end into a potato or carrot chunk. The screws seem to hold firmly with this method and handling is much easier for tiny ones than using holes in cardboard (my usual method for bigger screws #8-32 and up in size). The veg chunk has some weight so they don't get blown around by the paint propellant. Hope the idea helps.  :cheers:
That's a really interesting technique, Jeff! I'll have to remember that when it comes time to paint tinny parts.  I've done the poke it in cardboard or styrofoam thing too, but I like the potato idea!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2024, 05:09:39 AM
Well, I had an interesting day in the shop…

I decided to try a new method for bending the steel rod.  I made some little holders from aluminum to help out.  I drilled some 1/8” holes in a small scrap of 1/4" aluminum, then silt through the holes, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255e-Sandpipes_and_Screws-1-KIM_2965.jpg)

Then I sticky-taped them onto some vice grips and used these to help me bend. It helped quite a bit.  Let me get my bends in the spot I wanted, and frequently, at the angle I wanted.  They didn’t make it as easy as I imagined they would, but they helped.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255e-Sandpipes_and_Screws-2-KIM_2969.jpg)

I had removed the running board on the other side of the engine and was working on the front sandpipe.  It was hard because of all the other stuff hanging off the engine (like the cylinder for example).  But I eventually got there. But when I attached it and held the running board up to the side of the engine, I couldn't get it to fit in place. The sandpipe interfered with the connecting rod of the valve cock opener. This made me quite sad, as you can imagine.  :'(
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255e-Sandpipes_and_Screws-3-KIM_2977.jpg)

The only thing that is different in my engine than the drawings is that I used 0.016” sheet for the boiler jacket instead of 0.012” sheet.  That’s only 4 thou difference.  Oh yeah, and of course, I used 1/8” rod instead of 0.110” rod for the sandpipes.  But I tried sliding a 0.110” gauge pin between the boiler and the connecting rod and it doesn’t fit either. I can make it fit, but it's quite tight and would definitely affect the movement of the connecting rod.  So, I don’t see how the sandpipe would ever fit there, even with the 0.110” size that Kozo recommends.   Maybe my boiler is mounted a little off-center or something, though there’s not a lot of room on the other side either.

Here's an assortment of gauge pins I used to check the clearance.  The 1/8” (0.125”) pin just won’t fit at all (which I already knew).  The 0.110” pin (the size specified in the plans) will fit very tightly between the boiler and the connecting rod.  The 0.093” gauge pin will fit comfortably, though not much room to spare, but it doesn’t foul the connecting rod at least.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255e-Sandpipes_and_Screws-4-KIM_2972.jpg)

Here’s another shot of me testing the 0.093 (3/32”) gauge pin.  It fits pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/255e-Sandpipes_and_Screws-5-KIM_2981.jpg)

So, I’m going to think about this a bit.  I considered making a notch in the sandpipe, or somehow reducing the diameter where it has to pass the connecting rod, , but that just seems wrong.  I don't feel good about that solution.  Similarly, I could make some kind of cut in the connecting rod to let the sandpipe pass - it'd have to be a 1/2" - 3/4" long flat spot on the rod.  That could work, but it feels kinda shady too.

Another option I've come up with is to start over on the sandpipes.  Of course, it's always hard to think about taking a step backward, but it feels like my best option might be to remake the sandpipes (including the feet, of course) and use 0.093” brass rod (or wire?).  That will make it much easier to shape, and it may actually fit where it’s supposed to go without altering other parts.

If you have any other ideas, do let me know.  I won’t be working on anything tomorrow (due to other domestic duties), so I’ve got a while to think about it.

Thanks,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: dudeface on January 25, 2024, 06:08:14 AM
It isn't the big things that are scary, it's the tiny stuff... Just looking at these pictures has me shuddering!   :paranoia:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gunna on January 25, 2024, 07:19:58 AM
Is it possible to make a small dent in the cladding sheet? That might be true to original! Or is that not the cladding I am looking at?
Ian.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on January 25, 2024, 08:35:01 AM
Hello Kim,
That's annoying, but I wouldn't notch the pipe.
I would have made the bar a little flat at that point. Mark the area beforehand and then flatten the side properly in the milling machine. There is only a small amount of material that needs to be removed. And you won't see it.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on January 25, 2024, 02:40:57 PM
I'd suggest the brass smaller rod / pipe approach Kim. You could go even lower on diameter , say .062" or 2 mm / .079" dia, for a little more clearance. Sand pipes on full size engines were not large diameter, so smaller pipes than .093" would still look "in scale". Good luck with them, whatever you do.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2024, 03:27:21 PM
It isn't the big things that are scary, it's the tiny stuff... Just looking at these pictures has me shuddering!   :paranoia:

I hear you there!  :-\
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2024, 03:29:26 PM
Is it possible to make a small dent in the cladding sheet? That might be true to original! Or is that not the cladding I am looking at?
Ian.
Yes, that's the cladding that it's rubbing up against.  However, there is NO space between the cladding and the boiler.  The cladding is just wrapped immediately around the boiler. So to get any space I'd have to dent both the cladding and the boiler.  And I don't feel good about denting the boiler  :(

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 25, 2024, 03:33:27 PM
Thanks Michael, Jeff, Ian and Dude,
I appreciate the thoughts here.

I think I'm going to opt for just redoing the sandpipes with 3/32" rod - brass rod this time.  We'll see how that goes.  I won't be doing it today, but soon... :)

Thank you for all the input!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on January 25, 2024, 05:00:03 PM
Good choice Kim, you can also anneal the brass which will make it much easier to work with if needed.
Are there some brackets or clamps the hold the pipes in place?

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on January 26, 2024, 03:38:57 AM
Not going to be long now Kim!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on January 26, 2024, 05:41:03 AM
Good choice Kim, you can also anneal the brass which will make it much easier to work with if needed.
Are there some brackets or clamps the hold the pipes in place?

Dave

Interestingly, no.  The only thing that holes the sandpipe is the one screw connecting it to the sandbox saddle.  Which makes me want to try and bend the brass without annealing it.  I worry that in the annealed state it might get bent out of shape too easily.  But as you say, I've always got that option if it seems like it would help.

Thanks!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 01, 2024, 10:46:51 PM
I finally finished the Sandpipes!  Yay! 

But not without some additional drama.  I made the little feet in the same way, using the same material, but drilled 0.080” holes in the end.  Then silver soldered 0.080” brass wire into those holes for the pipe.  All of this was the same, so no pics (that would be boring).

I was a bit worried if the small brass wire would be strong enough to turn the ends of the feet round like I did last time.  But it worked – for 3 out of the 4 feet... The last one just snapped right off while turning! I was being extra gentle, only taking a few thou at a time but it still broke.  Nothing different about this one than the others, so I don’t know.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/1-KIM_3015.JPG)

Luckily, I’d made five feet this time around (just for fun), so I used that extra foot to replace the one that broke.  I soldered it and tried it in the lathe.  It broke again.  And this time, I was certain I was being extra EXTRA careful.  Ah well. 

Rather than repeat that again and hope for a better outcome, I chose to try a different method.  This time I set it up in the mill and used the boring head to round off the end of the foot. I have heard that people turn the boring bar around and run the mill in reverse to do an ‘outside bore’ like this. But in this case – since I was taking off so little, and the geometry of my boring bar looked like it would support it, I just left it as is and ran it forward, but on the inside edge of the tool.  Probably not ideal, but it worked fine for the few thou it had to remove:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/2-KIM_3012.JPG)

With that done, I used files to shape the feet, just like before (though I think I did a better job this time around).  Then I bent the pipes (much easier this time, of course) and trimmed them to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/3-KIM_3017.JPG)

It took me a while, but I got there!

Interestingly, these were a pretty close fit, and they were 0.080”.  There’s no way a 0.110” diameter rod would fit between the transfer rod and the boiler jacket.  Just no way.  I don’t know how Kozo (and probably hundreds of other people too) made that work!

Next up will be the bell.  I’m excited about that!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 01, 2024, 11:14:38 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great Kim!  Glad the .080" dia rod worked better. Be sure to give us a dingle as the bell progresses!  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 02, 2024, 01:51:17 AM
Its looking even better, you gotta  be close to done. How many more chapters? Cab and some piping?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 02, 2024, 02:02:35 AM
Well done Kim. Some say that the true mark of a craftsperson is the size of his/her scrap pile, i.e., the ability to toss what's not quite right and start over. To my eye the smaller diameter also looks much more to scale.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2024, 05:54:24 AM
Thank you, Jeff, Chris, and Ron!  :cheers:

You bet Jeff, I'll give you a little jingle when it's all done!

Thanks, Ron.  I'm happy with the size of the smaller rod too. My only concern is that it might be a little 'jiggly' as it goes down the track. Guess we'll see, eh? :)

Chris, I've got several chapters to go still.  I'm still working on chapter 29. Next will be chapter 30 which covers the whistle, then a chapter for the sight glass, one for the cab, then the water piping, one for Oil piping, and the final one for the coupler (dummy knuckle coupler, not a working one).  So that makes 5 more chapters.  However, for extra credit I planning on making my own pressure gauge, so that's like another chapter, and then I'll be making a deadweight tester for calibrating the pressure gauge.  So 5 more chapters for the book, and two more from the appendix of another one of Kozo's books (I think it's the Heisler.)

I've still got a good way to go yet!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 02, 2024, 08:25:05 AM
Hello Kim.
the sand fall pipes look very good!
I've looked at some old black and white photos of this locomotive on the internet and I can't see any further attachment of the pipes.
But I also can't imagine that there weren't any other fortifications there. The pipes would eventually break due to the vibrations. I could imagine that there might be an attachment point at the bottom of the frame.

Are you going to build a real Bourdon pressure gauge like this?
This will be very interesting.
During my training as a measurement technician, I often had to check pressure gauges with a calibrated precision pressure gauge.
This happened with an oil pump on a testing apparatus.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 02, 2024, 03:34:38 PM
I have heard that people turn the boring bar around and run the mill in reverse to do an ‘outside bore’ like this.

I tried that, once. It was for a very light cut, in wood.

Within about 1 msec the boring head came unscrewed from its mandrel.  :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:

Fortunately there was no serious damage, but never again!  :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2024, 03:37:43 PM
Hello Kim.
the sand fall pipes look very good!
I've looked at some old black and white photos of this locomotive on the internet and I can't see any further attachment of the pipes.
But I also can't imagine that there weren't any other fortifications there. The pipes would eventually break due to the vibrations. I could imagine that there might be an attachment point at the bottom of the frame.
Yes, it does seem odd that there's no supports for the sand pipes.  Ah well, probably doesn't really matter on my model.  Just seems a little strange, doesn't it?

Are you going to build a real Bourdon pressure gauge like this?
This will be very interesting.
During my training as a measurement technician, I often had to check pressure gauges with a calibrated precision pressure gauge.
This happened with an oil pump on a testing apparatus.

Michael

Yes, that is my plan, to build a bourdon pressure gauge.  We'll see how it goes  :embarrassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2024, 03:43:16 PM
I have heard that people turn the boring bar around and run the mill in reverse to do an ‘outside bore’ like this.

I tried that, once. It was for a very light cut, in wood.

Within about 1 msec the boring head came unscrewed from its mandrel.  :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:

Fortunately there was no serious damage, but never again!  :hammerbash: :hammerbash: :hammerbash:

Gene
Oh, that does sound, 'exciting'.  A little more excitement than I generally want when I'm puttering in my shop!  Glad no one was hurt and nothing was damaged.

Luckily, I have an R8 spindle on my mill, so running forward or backward I probably don't have to worry about the boring head unscrewing.  Though there are countless other things I can screw up, I'm sure!  :Lol:

Wait.... is the head screwed into the R8 spindle?  Now I'm going to have to figure that out... I'm not sure.  If I remember correctly, the boring head came with an R8 shank preinstalled, so I have never thought about how it's attached!  Hmm...  :thinking:

Kim

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 02, 2024, 05:57:51 PM
This will be very exciting, self-made pressure gauges.
I love this old thing.
Don't forget to build the test pressure gauge for the locomotive pressure gauge too.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2024, 06:07:33 PM
Wow! Those are some fine looking pressure gauges, Michael!  :)

I doubt mine will look nearly as good as those. But it should work just fine!

And yes, I'll be testing it.  One of my sub-projects is to build a test bench for it!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: internal_fire on February 02, 2024, 10:21:16 PM
Wait.... is the head screwed into the R8 spindle?

Mine came with a pre-installed R8 spindle. I never even thought about the "universal" boring head that was merely screwed into the spindle.  :ShakeHead:

Gene
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 03, 2024, 05:07:41 AM
Hmmm....  :o
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Zephyrin on February 03, 2024, 08:58:42 AM
Your own shop made pressure gauge, wow!
I read this chapter in the Kozo's book, incredible of details about the build of the bourdon tube.
Sounds like a job for you, if you don't mind me saying so.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 03, 2024, 05:46:51 PM
Your own shop made pressure gauge, wow!
I read this chapter in the Kozo's book, incredible of details about the build of the bourdon tube.
Sounds like a job for you, if you don't mind me saying so.

Yeah, definitely a challenge all right! :)
I'm going to give it a go though. And if it doesn't work out, I'm sure someone will sell me one  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on February 04, 2024, 08:30:27 AM
The assembled loco is looking good  :praise2:  :praise2:

Making the pressure gauge sounds to be a fun challenge  :)  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on February 04, 2024, 09:21:35 AM
If you want to watch the descent into madness that is the making of a pressure gauge, then I can recommend looking here - this jumps you to page 800 (!) of Roger's loco build (I'm assuming you can view without creating a log-in):

https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/8680/help-speedy-valve-gear-issues?page=800 (https://modeleng.proboards.com/thread/8680/help-speedy-valve-gear-issues?page=800)

Roger likes to make tiny things.  Here's how far he's got with the gauge:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53482613870_173e0a70e5_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53386591806_f62f7dbae1_c.jpg)

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 04, 2024, 05:11:14 PM
Wow Wilf!  That is one amazingly small pressure gauge that Roger is making! He's quite the craftsman.  Not sure mine will be anywhere near that intricate.  Very fascinating read.  Thanks for the pointer!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 06, 2024, 11:17:51 PM
Chapter 29.5 – Bell

This week I’ve been working on the bell.

I started with a short piece of 1” 360 brass rod, faced the end, and then drilled a #48 hole all the way through (just shy of 1”).  This is 3-48 tapping size (I’ll tap it later).  Then I used a 7/16” end mill to bore a hole to the max depth of the inside of the bell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-1-KIM_3022.jpg)

I then used a tiny boring bar and the cross slide set to 20o to open the bell up on the inside.  Kozo shows a single angle for the whole inside of the bell but I chose to make the last little bit at 30o just to make the edge a little thinner.   It’s still mighty thick for a bell but hey, this is what the drawings show so I'm hoping it will work.  :-\
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-2-KIM_3024.jpg)

My next step was to turn the outside of the bell to a very rough approximation of a bell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-3-KIM_3028.jpg)

Then using files and sandpaper I shaped a nice semi-pleasing bell shape into the outside.  I also smoothed out the edges on the inside of the bell too.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-4-KIM_3031.jpg)

Next, I took the top of the bell down to 1/4".  I used my nice skinny round-nosed tool for this so that I’d get that rounded boss in the center of the top of the bell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-5-KIM_3034.jpg)

I finally parted it off the stock and tapped the center hole 3-48.  And here it is. It actually looks kinda like a bell! :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/256a-Bell-6-KIM_3037.jpg)

And just because I  couldn’t stand the suspense, I had to see if the bell actually made any noise.  So I jury rigged a way to suspend the bell so I could test it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDhZg2E_hs8

Not the most imposing of train bell sounds, but still, a nice clear bell sound never the less.  I think it would be hard to get a big deep clang from a scale-sized bell anyway.

I’m actually quite pleased with how it came out!

Next will be the bell stand and yoke.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tghs on February 06, 2024, 11:23:18 PM
sound never scales well but the bell looks great..  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 06, 2024, 11:31:09 PM
Thanks Tghs!   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 06, 2024, 11:42:04 PM
Great bell! Shape came out great.




Now you can call your shop elves for dinner!




Tiny whistles don't  scale well either, on the New Shay, Kozo put a larger whistle out of view under the side frame  to get a deeper sound. Did he do the same on this design? You'd probably have to  go too big to get a decent bell sound though.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: steamer on February 07, 2024, 01:10:06 AM
OOOOOOH that bell is so cute! :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on February 07, 2024, 03:30:34 AM
That bell not only looks good but sounds good, too!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 07, 2024, 04:20:36 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great looking bell Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 07, 2024, 05:31:07 AM
Thanks, everyone!

Chris, there's only one whistle, and it's visible.  I don't know how it compares in size to the prototype, but it's only a few inches long and lays down along the top of the boiler close to the cab where you can see it.  It's not overly large so I imagine it will be a dainty little whistle to match the dainty little bell that it goes with  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gunna on February 08, 2024, 07:46:14 AM
Kim, when you get around to that pressure gauge, make sure you have the right character set in your printer for the dial!! I have always been intrigued by this gauge which is on one of the big diesels in our museum. I'm not sure if the reading should change along with the international exchange rate. :stir:
Ian.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gunna on February 08, 2024, 07:47:56 AM
Other pic didn't come up for some reason.
Ian
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 08, 2024, 08:32:23 AM
On the old pressure gauge I have, this old unit for the pressure is also written.
What does that actually mean exactly?
Our older technicians sometimes still speak of “Atü” (atmosphere overpressure) when the pressure is indicated on the manometer.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on February 08, 2024, 09:23:08 AM
I would read that as "pounds pressure per square inch", although I don't know what the little crescent under the inch symbol is. 

As for your overpressure idea - I can guess:  If you are trying to calculate how much mass of gas you have in a vessel, you'd need to multiply the volume by the pressure and some kind of density constant (molar mass).  There are online calculators.  But you need the "absolute pressure", i.e. the pressure above a vacuum.  So you'd need to add the atmospheric pressure to any reading on a manometer.

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on February 08, 2024, 03:43:35 PM
Absolutely correctly explained.
That's why the confusing unit of Atm / Atü has already been changed to Kp / cm°, then to kPa or Mpa for a while and now to bar.

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 08, 2024, 05:52:35 PM
That's fascinating!   I can see the 'per square inch' part.  But in the pics posted by Ian, the $ doesn't make sense to me.  Dollars per square inch?  :???:

The pictures Michael posted have a character I'm unfamiliar with the fancy slashed U thing.  Does that mean pounds?  I thought the fancy L with a line through it was pounds? :)

I probably won't rate my pressure gauge in Atmospheres though.  I'll probably stick with the PSI units that I'm more familiar with.  :embarassed:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: uuu on February 08, 2024, 09:19:46 PM
That's fascinating!   I can see the 'per square inch' part.  But in the pics posted by Ian, the $ doesn't make sense to me.  Dollars per square inch?  :???:

Kim

I think it's a stylised "lbs"

Wilf
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 08, 2024, 09:56:44 PM
That's fascinating!   I can see the 'per square inch' part.  But in the pics posted by Ian, the $ doesn't make sense to me.  Dollars per square inch?  :???:

Kim

I think it's a stylised "lbs"

Wilf
Ah... yes, of course, that would make more sense   :embarassed:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: jcge on February 09, 2024, 10:06:08 PM
Perhaps the Fabrik-Zeichen gauge's "U" is for "Uber" (over) pressure.
John
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 13, 2024, 10:13:33 PM
Perhaps the Fabrik-Zeichen gauge's "U" is for "Uber" (over) pressure.
John
Seems like a reasonable guess to me! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 13, 2024, 10:22:01 PM
Chapter 29.6 – Bell Stand and Yoke

This week I’ve started the Bell Stand.  This is, of course, the part that will support the bell and hold it above the boiler in its rightful place.

Somehow in my BOM I’d set this part up to be made from steel sheet.  But I want it left bright, so it needs to be brass.  Consequently, because of that mistake, I didn’t source any appropriate thickness brass sheet.

So, I went scrounging around in my brass stock and came up with a 1/4" x 3/16” brass bar.  That’d work great since the bell stand needs to be 3/16” wide.  All I needed to do was to make the other dimension 5/64”.  I didn’t want to mill away ~70% of the bar so used a slitting saw to slice it to width.  This went pretty well.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-1-KIM_3039.jpg)

As you can see, the internal stresses of the bar resulted in some warpage, but the part’s going to be bent anyway, so I wasn’t too worried about that.  But I did find it interesting that the skinny piece (the part I wanted) curved less than the fat piece.   I just found that curious.  I’d have thought just the opposite would happen.  But there you go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-2-KIM_3043.jpg)

Next, I drilled some holes – the outside holes will hold the bell pivot.  The center hole will be for the bell mount (to be made later).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-3-KIM_3045.jpg)

I then used my high-tech radius jig on the belt sander to shape the sides of the stand.  First I made the fish belly in the middle.   (This shot was taken after the fact since clearly the next step has already been done!)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-4-KIM_3052.jpg)

Then I put the radius on each end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-5-KIM_3049.jpg)

Now, just who’s bright idea was it to attempt to bend the part to shape without annealing it first?  I don’t know, but when I find that guy, he’s going to get a stern talking to!  What an idiot!  :cussing:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-6-KIM_3055.jpg)

Back to the drawing board…  I considered NOT drilling the holes till after bending the part but the holes are SO useful in sanding it to shape, so I did it that way again.  And I’ll just be more super careful when it comes time to bend it to shape. And of course, I’ll make sure that idiot anneals the part before bending this time!   :facepalm2:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257a-BellStand-7-KIM_3058.jpg)

That will be first up on the agenda next time…

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 13, 2024, 10:39:06 PM
Thats what I would have expected when cutting down the thin piece - the stresses are mainly in the outer portion, where it was rolled the most. Since there is not as much other material in the thin piece, it bent more. Not a problem in this piece since as you say you were bending it anyway, but an hour in the oven at 500F then cooling off would have made it not warp much at all.


Came out well!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 14, 2024, 12:16:45 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looks like the metal supplier substituted Bananium for brass on your order!  :Lol: (happens to us all, once in a while. I usually anneal / stress relieve any brass I'm taking much out of, or sawing, same method as Chris described. ) Sorry to see the drilled yoke broke. Good to drill it after bending to shape, but just a thought - Kozo shows it being silver soldered to a mount post - the heat from that op may cause the area on the bent part around the hole to evaporate. Might be wise to leave some extra material around the hole and clean it up after the silver soldering op is completed. Hope the idea helps.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gerritv on February 14, 2024, 12:41:35 PM
Would it have been better to drill the center hole after bending? That area isn't very robust. Annealing is of course more appealing from an operations view. Soft solder would likely do the job there as well?

gerrit
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 14, 2024, 03:27:09 PM
Thanks, Chris, Jeff, and Gerrit,

Well, my third try (if I have one) will likely be to drill the center hole AFTER bending.  The reason I made the hole is that I used that hole in shaping the part.  But I'm sure it could be done without the hole too, just a little more difficult.  In fact, the whole thing could be filed to shape after bending too.  But that seems even harder!  Guess we'll see how it goes.  Though it won't be today as this is the day I go help my mom & sister with stuff around their house.  So tomorrow we'll see...

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Alex on February 15, 2024, 12:13:27 AM
Kim;  I made a couple of bells to Kozo's plans.

If I did the attachments correctly, there should be two pictures here. One with bells on, and one with jigs.

The jigs, from top left; bending jig. Annealed brass, with hole drilled at top, (not seen, but the swarf clearance hole is shown) and bend the yoke. Then top right, bending jig for the bit that holds the bell. It's got the hole on top, and the sides are correct distance apart. Bottom right - jig for holding the bell for machining the inside. (At this point, bell outside is done - it allows the machining of insides, and finishing the bottom nicely. I did the outside turning on one of my CNC milling machines). Bottom left; the "shortening the bell swivel bits" - after bottom yoke and top bell holder thing are ready, to get the top bel holder thingy round rods to size, stick them in one of the holes on LHS, hold, and file other side. One side will be longer, for the bell crank arm.

The bell pictures; two completed bells, one completed yoke, and some extra bell crank arms.

These actually went together quite well; lots of time prepping and making the jigs; the rest was a piece of cake!

hope this is of some use to you - great build you are doing, by the way.

JohnS.


Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 15, 2024, 06:01:31 AM
Wow, John!  Those bells look great!

I was thinking about how to make a form for the bell stand, to get a better shape but I decided to try and just bend it.  You can see how that went for me :)  I may look at making a form like that too.

Nice work.  Thanks for showing me what you did here, I appreciate it!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 16, 2024, 10:06:12 PM
Today I designed a little form for the bell stand using Fusion 360.  It wasn’t even very hard!  I was quite pleased with how easily it came together.   While I was at it, I also made a form for bending the bell yoke, the other item covered in this section of Kozo’s book.  Then I printed the form using purple PLA (Why purple? Just because I had it and I thought it was pretty!).  I set the slicer to use an extra thick shell and about 60% infill to hopefully withstand the forming process.

I then made the little brass strap for the bell yoke.  No pictures of this process because it’s basically like the bell stand, just smaller and a slightly different shape.  I couldn’t do it all on the belt sander and had to do quite a bit of hand filing work for this one. But here it is, with the bell stand and the pretty purple, freshly printed, bell stand form.   The bottom part of the form is for the bell stand and the top part is for the bell yoke.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257b-BellStand-1-KIM_3060.jpg)

I also put holes in the top and bottom to help position the brass parts for forming.  I just tapped the PLA directly.  I know threads tapped in the plastic aren’t very strong, but I didn’t think they really needed to be.  I just wanted it to help keep the parts in position.  And it worked just fine.   I did remember to anneal the parts prior to forming this time, which I’m sure helped significantly. You can see I got some spring back on the parts, but not too bad.  Probably another round of annealing would have helped, but I was happy enough with this.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257b-BellStand-2-KIM_3064.jpg)

After taking the parts off the form I worked them a little more to get the proper dimension (getting rid of the spring back) and here they are:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257b-BellStand-3-KIM_3067.jpg)

All in all, this was a very pleasant experience.  Much different than my attempt at manually forming the bell stand.  Thank you for all the input and help! And John, your suggestion of using a form was right on!  Thank you!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 16, 2024, 10:37:26 PM
Excellent results on the form and the annealing!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on February 16, 2024, 10:46:31 PM
Hi Kim,
as Chris said, excellent job.
3D printed parts can be a great and easy help.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 17, 2024, 12:49:21 AM
Nice work Kim! One of the places where 3D Printing excels is ability to quickly create jigs and fixtures.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 17, 2024, 01:27:58 AM
In the past I probably would have  cut a jig like that from hardwood on the bandsaw. But, it wouldn't have been  as accurate.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 17, 2024, 02:32:42 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great job on the bell frame parts and the form tool Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 17, 2024, 05:23:35 AM
Thanks, everyone!  :cheers:

I may be an old dog, but I'm still learning new tricks from you guys!  Thanks  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 17, 2024, 09:12:30 AM
Nive progress Kim  :ThumbsUp:

I use the Boolean-Subtract Function in Alibre to create very useful Threads in my Models.
First I "Drill a Hole" smaller than the Minor Diameter of the Thread - per the usual funtion. Any circular or other way to align will work - then I select the Boolean-Subtract Function. In the new window I select one off the following files from my Library :

Place as many as needed, apply Constraints to fix them in the correct location - when done - click on the 'Green Tick Button' => you now have a very good Threaded hole.

Putting in screws afterwards feels like turning then through the 'Nyloc' part of one of those nuts - so they do not come out again without using a Tool  ;)

Hope that you will find this usefull.

Per     :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Alex on February 17, 2024, 01:01:14 PM
Kim - that was fast! And I do like the purple form, and that you made it do two functions.

I should try to get back into 3D printing at home - I did have a Stratasys at work (which I did not like to use for personal stuff) and got one of the very first Printrbot Simple printers - the plywood one with Dremel sanding drums and fishing line for X and Y axis movement. I've seen some stuff done with a new "Cobalt"?? printer that looks very impressive. (I eventually gave that Printrbot away - never got much out of it)

I *think* that bell build was one I wrote about in Model Engineer a decade or so ago now; I wrote some articles on building my Shay and published them. And, I'm glad I kept the forms and spare bits in labelled bags in a box and that you found the idea worthy, too.

Thanks for all the writing and photoing you and other builders are doing here - it IS appreciated. JohnS.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 17, 2024, 05:05:47 PM
Thanks Per and Alex!

Yes, there's so much to learn in the 3D printing world too.  I'm just beginning my journey there.  I've printed lots of stuff I've downloaded, but just starting to design my own things.  That is a LOT more fun for sure! :)

I've got the Prusa Mk4 which I just love (recently upgraded it from the Mk3+).  I know the rage right now is the Bambu printer cause its so fast.  But I've seen it working and I don't think it's much (if any) faster than the Mk4.  But it's new and cool.  And I've heard good things about it too, so I'm sure it's a great printer.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on February 17, 2024, 06:57:13 PM
Thanks Per and Alex!

Yes, there's so much to learn in the 3D printing world too.  I'm just beginning my journey there.  I've printed lots of stuff I've downloaded, but just starting to design my own things.  That is a LOT more fun for sure! :)

I've got the Prusa Mk4 which I just love (recently upgraded it from the Mk3+).  I know the rage right now is the Bambu printer cause its so fast.  But I've seen it working and I don't think it's much (if any) faster than the Mk4.  But it's new and cool.  And I've heard good things about it too, so I'm sure it's a great printer.

Kim


Hi Kim,
 the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon is in use in my shop since middle of last year.
It is a fatanstic machine pur fun with its printing speed.

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on February 17, 2024, 10:54:23 PM
Hi Kim

Here are some photos of making a rather complex sheet metal part using printed tooling. These are half size burner clamps for the Model B Lake Breeze hot air fan that I'm working on.
After the blanks were cut the first two bends were put in using the press brake, then the first set of tools adds the offset bend. Then the second set of tools adds the next bend after the offset.
Finally withe the part clamped in the second set of tools the leg is folded up as far as it will go, then tweaked a little by hand to make it parallel. I could probably have fine tuned them a bit, but only needed 3 pieces.

Dave
 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on February 18, 2024, 12:21:27 AM
That's an awesome use of 3D printed tooling!  Thanks for posting, Dave!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 18, 2024, 06:09:00 AM
Wow!  That is very cool, Dave!  I'll have to remember that.  Those little bent parts came out really nice, and they all look very uniform.  That would be hard to do free-handing the bends, I'd think.  (at least for me it would  :Lol:)

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Don1966 on February 18, 2024, 05:52:33 PM
lovely work Kim and good progress.... :Love:


 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on February 18, 2024, 09:32:42 PM
Looking Amazing, Kim!  Sorry I haven't posted here in a while.  She sure is coming along beautifully.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2024, 06:00:43 AM
Thanks Don, and Todd!  :cheers:

Yeah, I'm making progress... slowly.  But I'm moving forward (most of the time).  I thought I'd make more progress after I retired, but sometimes I think I actually have less time in the shop now!    :embarassed:

How did I ever have time to work?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: wagnmkr on February 19, 2024, 11:41:58 AM
Very good use of 3d printing Kim. Good looking parts as usual.

 :cheers:

Tom
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2024, 05:29:20 PM
Thanks Tom!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2024, 10:12:28 PM
The next part is the support for the bell stand.

This was made from 3/16” hex brass.

First I turned the little nubbin that will be soldered into the stand. Then I used a 3/16” ball nosed end mill to turn a decorative radius on the top of the support.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-1-KIM_3071.jpg)

Then I parted it off from the parent stock.  I’d turned the back end down a bit just to give me an idea of where the threads will go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-2-KIM_3073.jpg)

Next, I flipped it around in the hex collet and turned the threaded portion down to 1/8”, followed by threading it 5-40.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-3-KIM_3076.jpg)

Here are all the parts for the bell stand and the yoke.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-4-KIM_3079.jpg)

Next, it was over to the hearth for silver soldering.  The part on the left is the stand with the support fluxed up, ready to be soldered in place – I’m using some new goop I got from a jewelry place (Rio Grande) to hold the stand upright for soldering.  It seemed to work well.  Then on the right is the bell yoke with the pivot rod inserted, ready for soldering.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-5-KIM_3082.jpg)

After soldering and some pickle, I cut the middle part out of the pivot rod.  The ends or the rod that extend on each side need to be shortened.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-6-KIM_3085.jpg)

And finally, here they are attached together.  I have shortened the pivot rod on the right.  The one on the left won’t get shortened till I solder the bell lever in place.  Once that’s done, the yoke won’t be coming off the stand again.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/257c-BellStand-7-KIM_3088.jpg)


Thanks for checking in on me!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 19, 2024, 10:17:45 PM
Nice result!! 


What is the goop from Rio Grande? I've gotten silver solder wire from them a number of times, but hadn't noticed that stuff. Is it re-usable? Looks handy for orienting small parts.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 19, 2024, 10:31:45 PM
What is the goop from Rio Grande? I've gotten silver solder wire from them a number of times, but hadn't noticed that stuff. Is it re-usable? Looks handy for orienting small parts.

It's called "Heat Sheild" and I originally got it just in case it would come in handy when soldering up the boiler.  But I think I forgot that I had it then because I never used it.  Here's a link it:
https://www.riogrande.com/product/heat-shield-with-syringe-applicator/503039110GP/?code=503039110&_t_id=sqw8YWjG5DwpkmYBVTZjSQ==&_t_uuid=bd3b783f-9ea4-45c4-bf41-b30007ce9569&_t_q=soldering+heat+sink&_t_hit.id=Commerce_Products_Product/CatalogContent_2ac6883e-65e7-454a-808d-79e08c167a82_en&_t_hit.pos=4 (https://www.riogrande.com/product/heat-shield-with-syringe-applicator/503039110GP/?code=503039110&_t_id=sqw8YWjG5DwpkmYBVTZjSQ==&_t_uuid=bd3b783f-9ea4-45c4-bf41-b30007ce9569&_t_q=soldering+heat+sink&_t_hit.id=Commerce_Products_Product/CatalogContent_2ac6883e-65e7-454a-808d-79e08c167a82_en&_t_hit.pos=4)

No, it doesn't seem reusable.  At least, the outer layer turns chalky white and turns into hard stone.  But the inner stuff that doesn't get directly exposed to the flame might be able to be reused, I don't know.  I didn't save it, but maybe I should have tried.  Maybe scrape off the hard part on the outside and keep the inside parts?  I don't know that you could reconstitute it with water like you can with flux when it starts to dry out.

The amount I used wasn't really very much.  It came in a pretty good-sized round jar (1 pound, I think) and I used a fraction of an ounce there.  So if I keep using it at this rate the jar will dry up before I get through have of it anyway!

This is my first use and I was using it to hold a part, not really for a heat sink. But it seemed to work for that too.

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 19, 2024, 10:50:03 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Top notch work Kim!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 19, 2024, 11:31:54 PM
Clever use of an end mill as a form tool in the lathe. I'll have to remember that one!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 20, 2024, 05:32:02 AM
Thanks Jeff!

Clever use of an end mill as a form tool in the lathe. I'll have to remember that one!
Thanks Ron, though I'm quite certain that it isn't original with me.  I have used it before with some success, though it didn't work as well when I tried to use a 5/8" ball nose mill - the end profile of that larger mill wasn't flat enough to make a good form tool in the steel I was using it on.  But this smaller 3/16 was very flat across the whole main profile.  Plus, I was using on brass, a fairly easy form job!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on February 20, 2024, 02:09:17 PM
If you are lazy like me you can also use router bits as form tools in the lathe.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 20, 2024, 05:30:32 PM
If you are lazy like me you can also use router bits as form tools in the lathe.
:ThumbsUp:
Good suggestion!
I've done that before too.  Works great  ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 20, 2024, 10:02:09 PM
Chapter 29.7 – Tongue, Cap Nut and Lever

The next part is the bell tongue, according to Kozo.  I would have called it a clapper, and probably still will.  Cause that’s how I’ve known that part all my life.  It’s the gizmo that flops around inside the bell and bangs on the side to make noise.  Regardless of what you call it, that’s what I made today.

The clapper was made from some 3/16” brass rod.  I cut part of it down to 1/8” and left the ball part at 3/16” diameter, then parted it off.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-1-KIM_3091.jpg)

I then took it over to the lathe and holding the short 3/16” portion in square collet block, I flattened off  1/8” of the top end of the clapper taking 1/32” off each side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-4-KIM_3100.jpg)

Then drilled a small #55 hole in the flat.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-5-KIM_3103.jpg)

Now, back over to the lathe.  Reversing the part with the 1/8” rod held in a collet, I rounded off the 3/16” portion to be the business end of the clapper.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-6-KIM_3106.jpg)

The piece that will hold the clapper in the bell was made from 1/8” brass rod. I turned it down and cut 3-48 threads in the end.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-2-KIM_3094.jpg)

Then parted it off to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-3-KIM_3097.jpg)

I repeated the same process of flattening the end and drilling a hole in this part in the mill.  Then, using some 0.040” brass wire, I made a single link to hold the clapper to the holder gizmo.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-7-KIM_3109.jpg)

This was then threaded into the top of the bell from the inside, like so:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258a-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-8-KIM_3115.jpg)

And that makes our bell, complete with clapper!  And it works no less!  ^-^

Sounds just like Tinkerbell  :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 20, 2024, 10:14:48 PM
Great!
I've always heard them called clappers too, maybe its a translation thing.
Reminds me of this old routine from the Johnny Carson show many (too many) years ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJGlhw5Jbo
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on February 20, 2024, 10:27:57 PM
That's a great looking bell, Kim!  Also, always heard them called clappers.

Crueby, I've always loved that routine!  :D

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on February 21, 2024, 01:46:21 AM
Looks great! No family photo???
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 21, 2024, 05:27:43 AM
The Clean Clapper Caper!   :ROFL:

I'd never seen that before. That's pretty hilarious, Chris!

Looks great! No family photo???
Only a couple more little parts left on the bell, THEN we'll have a full family photo!

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on February 21, 2024, 01:27:22 PM
That was a hilarious video and completely on topic!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 21, 2024, 06:59:25 PM
What video ?

Per
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 21, 2024, 07:31:36 PM
What video ?

Per
In my post about 6 posts back. Its a youtube link, maybe your browser is blocking it?   :headscratch:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 22, 2024, 06:36:48 AM
This is what I see :

If they are contry locked - I usually see a still of it - and a click on that gives 'This video is blocked in your area' .... but as you see - absolutely nothing of the kind here  :headscratch:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on February 22, 2024, 09:03:12 AM
Hi Kim,
 Just done a catch up! Boy you have been busy! Well done great progress!
Going back a couple of pages…. The boring head….. I tried a run in reverse….. yep started to unscrew in a micro second! I’ve changed from the brazed on bits that came with the head that cut, well if you call it that, to use tipped boring bars FAR better. Mine are 12mm I got a couple & cut down to lengths using the 9 piece brazed ones as a guide that are mentioned in the sales stuff, tried full length but too much spring. After the wee oops I jumped on eBay & a seller there was offering both left & right plus a 10 pack of tips at a reasonable rate, hopefully make next time less heart stopping! Oh the other thing to do is drill the head & fit a grub / set screw to lock the head & the taper fitting together.
For the bell on Toby I found a candle snuffer was pretty close to bell shape, it didn’t take much to remove the handle & make a way of hanging it, for the clapper….. a ball bearing on a rod works well! I was lucky on the frame mine was steel!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2024, 05:11:06 PM
This is what I see :

If they are contry locked - I usually see a still of it - and a click on that gives 'This video is blocked in your area' .... but as you see - absolutely nothing of the kind here  :headscratch:

Per        :cheers:

Huh...  I have no clue why you can't see the video, Per...  But here's a link to the video clip that Chris sent.  It's funny enough to be worth a repost!  :Lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJGlhw5Jbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJGlhw5Jbo)

I just put the link there.  If you can't see it posted as a video on Chris's post, you probably wouldn't see it on mine either! (for whatever reason).  But hopefully, you can follow the link.

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2024, 05:14:43 PM
Hi Kim,
 Just done a catch up! Boy you have been busy! Well done great progress!
Going back a couple of pages…. The boring head….. I tried a run in reverse….. yep started to unscrew in a micro second! I’ve changed from the brazed on bits that came with the head that cut, well if you call it that, to use tipped boring bars FAR better. Mine are 12mm I got a couple & cut down to lengths using the 9 piece brazed ones as a guide that are mentioned in the sales stuff, tried full length but too much spring. After the wee oops I jumped on eBay & a seller there was offering both left & right plus a 10 pack of tips at a reasonable rate, hopefully make next time less heart stopping! Oh the other thing to do is drill the head & fit a grub / set screw to lock the head & the taper fitting together.
For the bell on Toby I found a candle snuffer was pretty close to bell shape, it didn’t take much to remove the handle & make a way of hanging it, for the clapper….. a ball bearing on a rod works well! I was lucky on the frame mine was steel!

Cheers Kerrin

Thanks for the good advice!  I really have no interest in seeing my boring head unscrew during use!  :o

Thanks for the pointer on the boring bars too.  I've got a 3/8" insert boring bar, but it's pretty long for use on the boring head, which is I guess why you said you cut it down!  It would be good to pickup a righthand cut boring bar too, to avoid the need to run in reverse!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 22, 2024, 05:37:23 PM
It sure would be anything but boring if a boring head came apart during use!  :zap:   :Lol:

A friend had one that just wouldn't stay assembled so he drilled across the shank to head joint and fitted a spring roll pin, the biggest dia that would fit. No more worries.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 22, 2024, 06:00:55 PM
Thank you Kim  ;D

I'm a little wiser now - it is only a problem with Chrome (and I installed an AD-blocker long time ago in it) .... Guess that it is another one of Youtubes recent activities, that just came into play.

OK - enough of that !      I'm still enjoying all of your posts here in this thread Kim  :ThumbsUp:

Keep up the good work and you will end up with a functioning Locomotive  :LittleAngel:

Per      :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 22, 2024, 11:02:02 PM
Today I started with the cap nut.  This is just a fancy nut to hold the bell in place on the yoke.  It was made from 5/32” hex 360 brass rod.  It’s essentially an acorn nut, but with a little ball on top.  So I started by making a cone to go from the ball to the nut. I made the ball 3/32” in diameter, though Kozo gives no dimensions for it.  There are actually very few dimensions shown for this part at all.  But since it’s decorative, I just made it what I thought looked kind of nice.  I made the front part 3/32” in diameter and just a tad under 3/32” in length so I can shape the ball here.  It's less than 3/32" long since I want the cone to intersect the ball at more than a single point  :Lol:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-01-KIM_3121.jpg)

Then I used some small files and sandpaper to shape the ball, and parted the nut off to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-02-KIM_3124.jpg)

Next, I flipped the nut around in the collet and drilled and tapped some 3-48 threads.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-03-KIM_3127.jpg)

Here’s the completed cap nut:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-04-KIM_3130.jpg)

For the bell lever, I found a small scrap of 0.040” sheet brass and squared it up to 3/16” in width.  Again, Kozo gives very few dimensions for this part so I was just going with what looked right-ish.  Then I drilled some holes in it.  The larger hole (on the left) will fit on the bell shaft.  The smaller hole (on the right) is for a string to go back to the cab so the engineer can ring the bell.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-05-KIM_3133.jpg)

With some filing I shaped the lever the it showed in the drawing.  There’s also a slight bend in the lever so I did that gently with some flat jaw pliers. 
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-06-KIM_3136.jpg)

Then I soft soldered the lever onto the bell crank.  After the fact, it came to me that I should have taken the bell off for the soldering operation.  Oops… Ah well, it turned out OK anyway.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-07-KIM_3139.jpg)

And with a little clean-up work, here we have the completed bell assembly!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-08-KIM_3142.jpg)

And here it is on the engine.  You’ll note I had to put a little brass washer in there so that the bell would tighten down in the correct orientation.  I'll eventually either paint the washer black so it blends in, or trim it to a smaller diameter.  Or both?
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-10-KIM_3148.jpg)

I also made a video of the bell in action :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRAL9wWgf0c

And here’s the full family shot of the engine.  It’s starting to look pretty good with all the doodads on it!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/258b-Tongue2C_Cap_Nut_and_Lever-09-KIM_3145.jpg)

This completes the section on the domes and bell.  Now on to the next section where I’ll be making the whistle!  That should be exciting!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: tzkelley on February 23, 2024, 01:53:30 AM
SWEET!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on February 23, 2024, 02:14:20 AM
That's one Belle of a bell, Kim! You should bring the tender out for the next family shot (or did you forget where you put it? :Lol:)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 23, 2024, 02:21:28 AM
That's one Belle of a bell, Kim! You should bring the tender out for the next family shot (or did you forget where you put it? :Lol: )
Your shop elves take the tender to get beer?


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Krypto on February 23, 2024, 03:40:21 AM
The loco is really looking good!  All those little details might take forever to make, but they give something for your eye to soak-in.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2024, 04:54:33 AM
Thanks everyone!   :cheers:

Yeah, it's been a few years since I posted a picture of the tender, hasn't it?  :Lol:

But I think I know where it is...  :thinking:
Luckily, the shop elves won't get far in the tender by itself. And I'm keeping close track of the engine!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Steamer5 on February 23, 2024, 07:43:46 AM
Hi Kim,
 Isn’t tender “a place for beer storage in elf”?……

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 23, 2024, 07:43:02 PM
Hi Kim,
 Isn’t tender “a place for beer storage in elf”?……

Cheers Kerrin
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 23, 2024, 08:34:05 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I know beer causes foaming in a shop elf's glass, but not sure if it causes foaming in an A-3 boiler... :thinking:  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 23, 2024, 08:41:52 PM
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I know beer causes foaming in a shop elf's glass, but not sure if it causes foaming in an A-3 boiler... :thinking: :Lol:
Thats a boiler? I thought it was the brew kettle... Pair of tap pumps up front... Oh, those are engines!   :Lol:

Great progress Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: rustychip on February 23, 2024, 10:03:03 PM
Your A3 is really looking good, you are getting close to the light at the end of the tunnel. :) :cartwheel:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 26, 2024, 10:21:39 PM
Your A3 is really looking good, you are getting close to the light at the end of the tunnel. :) :cartwheel:
Thanks, Rusty!  And of course, we hope that light isn't another train coming the other direction!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 26, 2024, 10:28:29 PM
Chapter 30.1 – Manifold

Today I started on the part Kozo calls the Manifold.  The manifold is a rather complex little part that will deliver steam from the boiler to the whistle, the pressure gauge, and the water level gauge.

The manifold will be fabricated from several parts.  Three of the parts are little threaded nipples that provide the steam hookups for the three aforementioned items (whistle, pressure gauge, and water gauge).  Today I made the threaded nipples.

I made them, of course, from 1/4" brass rod.  I started by drilling a #38 hole through the length of the part, then making a short 9/64 hole to help seal with the  screw-in fitting.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259a-Manifold-1-KIM_3151.jpg)

This brass was odd.  It certainly isn’t 360 brass, which is what I was expecting. I’m not sure what it is.  Looking at it, I think it's some 1/4" brass rod I picked up at a hobby shop many years ago.  That brass is the reason I only purchase material that comes with more of a designation than just ‘brass’.  You can see that it doesn’t flake when you’re working it, like 360. It comes off in long strings and is really gummy – more like aluminum or something, but much harder than aluminum for sure.  It was OK, but not nearly as fun as 360 to work with.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259a-Manifold-2-KIM_3154.jpg)

Next, I cut some 1/4-32 threads in the end.  And this stuff was MUCH harder to cut threads in than 360 too!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259a-Manifold-3-KIM_3157.jpg)

Then turned a short section down to 5/32” and parted it off from the nasty parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259a-Manifold-4-KIM_3160.jpg)

Here are all three of the threaded nipples.  The drawing shows what the manifold will look like eventually. And where those three parts I just made will go.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259a-Manifold-5-KIM_3163.jpg)

Well, that was it for today. I actually did a lot more than this, but most of it was planning for how I was going to make the part.  Which as usual for me, took an inordinate amount of time.  :embarassed:

Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 26, 2024, 10:52:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 27, 2024, 11:29:30 PM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:


Today I started on the main body of the manifold.  My BOM spreadsheet said I’d planned to make this using 1/2" x 1” bar, but I couldn’t find any of that.  My carefully controlled inventory plan said I’d purchased 18” of 1/2" x 1” 5+ years ago when I bought all the materials for this project, but I just couldn’t find it.  I needed a 1” x 1” x 1/2” piece, so instead, I just cut a 1/2" chunk of a 1” x 1” square bar of 360 and milled it to size.  That worked.*
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-01-KIM_3166.jpg)

With the block to size, I clocked it in on the mill and marked the spot for the first feature – the connections for the whistle and the whistle button.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-02-KIM_3169.jpg)

Then I went over to the lathe and centered the part up on that mark in the 4-jaw.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-03-KIM_3172.jpg)

And drilled a #52 hole all the way through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-04-KIM_3175.jpg)

There’s a progression of hole sizes here – the #52 went through, a #30 went 7/8” deep, then a #3 went 3/8” deep, followed by a D-bit to cut the ball seat, drilled to 1/2" deep.  This ball seat is for the whistle control button.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-05-KIM_3179.jpg)

After that, I bored a shallow edge on the hole (for sealing, I’m sure) and tapped it 1/4"-32.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-06-KIM_3182.jpg)

With that side completed, I flipped the part around in the 4-jaw and centered it on the little #52 hole that went all the way through.  Then cut the part down to leave a 3/8” boss around that hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-07-KIM_3185.jpg)

The boss was threaded 3/8”-24. This will be where the whistle button mechanism screws onto the manifold.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-08-KIM_3188.jpg)

And finally, I bored out the hole to 0.258”.  This will house an o-ring to seal around the whistle push button.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-09-KIM_3191.jpg)

This is the state of play on the manifold showing all parts done so far.  Next, I’ll drill more holes in the main body (lots of them) and eventually solder the three nubbins onto it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259b-Manifold-10-KIM_3194.jpg)

Thanks for checking in on my progress.
Kim

*As a footnote, once I was sitting at my computer in the house, I decided to double-check my spreadsheet and see if I’d updated it or something.  No, I hadn’t.  And, I’d planned on using the 1/2" x 1” 360 bar for two parts; the manifold, and part of the steam T.  But I could not find a 1/2"x1” brass bar in my shop, even though I'd supposedly used it before!  So looked back in my build log here to see if I documented any issue with this when making the Steam T.  And, as it turns out, I had exactly the same problem then!  I couldn’t find that 1/2" x 1" brass bar I'd thought I purchased then either!  For the Steam T I ended up using some 1/2" x 1 1/4" brass bar.  So there you have it. That brass bar never got purchased. My inventory guy failed me!  I’ll have to give him a stern talking-to.  But at least, the mystery is solved…
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on February 28, 2024, 12:42:09 AM
Hey Kim, I  interrogated  my shop elves, and found out they traded that brass block with your elves, to carve out a hot tub...   sorry!  :Jester:




Great work on the manifold, must have been fun keeping  track of  which side was which!


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on February 28, 2024, 02:13:54 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I think that manifold will work great on the A-3's cab windshield washer system Kim! ... oh wait... :Lol: (just joking Kim, looks really good!)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 28, 2024, 05:23:53 AM
Thanks, Chris, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Well, I hope you're shop elves are enjoying their brass hot tub!  :Lol:

And Jeff, I think you're right!  It will fit in with the windshield washer system quite well!  Can't have a dirty windows in the cab!  How would you see which way the track was turning?  :Jester:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on February 28, 2024, 08:32:43 PM
Looking great, Kim!  Every little piece brings you much closer to first steam now. :)

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 28, 2024, 08:54:56 PM
Thanks Todd!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on February 29, 2024, 10:29:58 PM
Continuing on with the manifold, I again used the mill DRO to center drill the correct place for the steam supply connection. Then used that mark to center it up on the lathe in the 4-jaw.  Then I drilled and reamed a 3/8” through hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-1-KIM_3197.jpg)

To make room for the steam inlet I needed to bore out a donut from the middle of this 3/8” hole.  I did that with my tiny boring bar.  In this picture you can also see where I sticky-taped a little chunk of aluminum on one edge of the part to help protect that threaded boss (the top side in this photo).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-2-KIM_3200.jpg)

This picture is an attempt to show you the donut cut-out steam passage in the center of the hole.  Not sure it is very good, but hopefully you can see it there.  It’s pretty dark in that hole, but the cutout is there… really!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-3-KIM_3203.jpg)

Next, I started drilling the multiple steam passages.  The first one goes from one side all the way through the steam inlet circle and into the whistle control area (that complicated hole I drilled in the last installment).  This makes the steam passage for both the whistle and the sight glass with one operation.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-4-KIM_3205.jpg)

Then I drilled a 5/32” hole where the threaded stud will be soldered into.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-5-KIM_3208.jpg)

Here’s the part after I completed drilling the other two steam passages & stud connections. The picture shows how the three steam passages connect to the concentric ring that I bored, which is the steam inlet. The purple line is the output to the sight gauge, the green line is the connection to the pressure gauge, and the red arrow is the connection to the whistle control. The orange circle shows where the whistle valve ball bearing will sit in the valve seat, cutting off the steam flow to the whistle.  When the button is pushed it will dislodge the ball bearing, allowing the steam to flow out to the whistle, indicated by the blue arrow.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-6-KIM_3211.jpg)

The next order of business was to silver solder the three threaded studs in place.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-7-KIM_3214.jpg)

And, after a pickle and cleanup work, here’s the completed manifold.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/259c-Manifold-8-KIM_3217.jpg)

One more part completed!  On to the whistle and whistle control!

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 01, 2024, 12:28:39 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: That internal passage looks groovy Kim!  :Lol:  An excellent assembly. Cheers!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 01, 2024, 01:20:59 AM
Excellent!    :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 01, 2024, 05:26:12 AM
Thanks Jeff and Chris!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: wagnmkr on March 01, 2024, 11:46:39 AM
Good Looking Part Kim ... Another bit of the job well done!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 01, 2024, 10:47:16 PM
Thanks Tom!   :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 01, 2024, 10:53:20 PM
Chapter 30.2 – Manifold Plug and Gasket

Today I made the manifold plug.

This was made from 5/8” hex brass stock.  I turned a section down to 3/8” and then used my small round-nosed tool to cut a 3/16” wide groove.  This groove should line up with the groove I bored into the manifold yesterday and will form the steam distribution channel.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-1-KIM_3219.jpg)

Then I threaded the end 3/8”-24.  This will thread into the manifold bushing on the boiler.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-2-KIM_3222.jpg)

Now to drill the #3 hole in the end up to the groove I just cut.  The hole, of course, will deliver the steam up to the groove – once we drill the cross hole, that is. :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-3-KIM_3226.jpg)

Now, part the plug off the parent stock.  But before it’s completely off, I remembered to chamfer the edges of the hex head of the plug!  (To quote Blondihacks; "Chamfering is what separates us from the animals." :Lol:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-4-KIM_3229.jpg)

Then over to the mill to drill the cross hole.  NOW the steam will be able to get from the boiler into the manifold to be distributed around as we discussed yesterday.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-5-KIM_3232.jpg)

Finally, I did a marginal job at cutting some gaskets for the plug.  I’ll need two – one between the boiler and the manifold, and one between the manifold and the head of the plug.  I made three and will use the best two.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-6-KIM_3235.jpg)

And here’s the family shot with the manifold mounted to the boiler using the manifold plug.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/260a-ManifoldPlug-7-KIM_3238.jpg)

That wasn’t too bad!  Next, we’ll be starting on the whistle control assembly.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 01, 2024, 10:58:25 PM
Amazing  how much work goes into  an unassuming  looking little part like that manifold, isn't it?!  Looking forward to  hearing  the toots from the whistle!


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 02, 2024, 01:20:49 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 02, 2024, 05:40:07 AM
Thanks guys!  :cheers:

Amazing  how much work goes into  an unassuming  looking little part like that manifold, isn't it?!  Looking forward to  hearing  the toots from the whistle!

Me too!   :D

Kim

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 02, 2024, 09:17:22 AM
Excellent work on all the fiddley bits  :praise2: I like the picture showing the ever growing family of parts on top of the boiler  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 02, 2024, 04:27:42 PM
Thanks Roger!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 03, 2024, 05:41:04 PM
Nice work, Kim!  It's been so long since I'd read the section on the manifold.  I'd forgotten all the little passages that need to be in there.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2024, 10:22:00 PM
Thanks Todd!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 04, 2024, 10:25:39 PM
Chapter 30.3 – Whistle Valve Push Pin

Today I’m starting on the many small fiddly pieces that make up the whistle control subsystem.  The first of these pieces is the control button.

It’s made from 1/2" round brass.  I turned down a 1/4” diameter spigot for the base of the button, then drilled and tapped a 3-48 hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/261a-WhistleValvePushButton-1-KIM_3253.jpg)

Then I parted it from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/261a-WhistleValvePushButton-2-KIM_3256.jpg)

I flipped it around holding that little 1/4" spigot in a 5C collet.  One of the super nice things about the 5C collets is that they can clamp very securely on even a tiny little nubbin like this!  Then I proceeded to etch-a-sketch out a nice curved dome (I did this using the DRO and a little step-off table I made, I didn’t free hand it, I’m just not that good  :embarassed:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/261a-WhistleValvePushButton-3-KIM_3258.jpg)

And using files and sandpaper, I smoothed out the steps and made a nice smooth dome for the button surface.  That looks like it should feel nice to press!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/261a-WhistleValvePushButton-4-KIM_3262.jpg)

And here’s the finished button.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/261a-WhistleValvePushButton-5-KIM_3265.jpg)

Not a lot of progress, but I got several other small jobs done in my shop today, it wasn’t all play.  OK, it was all play, but not all train play! :)


Next time, I’ll be making the Valve Pin for the button to mount on.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 05, 2024, 02:56:23 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great looking button! If you make a few extras you could bling out your shop calculator.... :Lol:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2024, 05:27:33 AM
Not a bad idea!  My shop calculator is already a pretty stunning piece of equipment! (see pic attached below).  I inherited this pretty pink calculator from one of my daughters who decided to leave it at home when they moved out. So now I get to use it!   8)

Maybe some brass buttons would really dress it up?  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 05, 2024, 12:44:16 PM
 :cheers: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: gerritv on March 05, 2024, 02:35:50 PM
Detours in the shop are usually very rewarding in future projects or operations. And give time to reflect on the project in progress.

gerrit
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2024, 03:20:19 PM
Detours in the shop are usually very rewarding in future projects or operations. And give time to reflect on the project in progress.

gerrit

Definitely!   Though I'm not sure making brass buttons to bling up my calculator will be one of them for me.  At least not at the moment  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2024, 11:03:08 PM
The whistle valve pin was turned from 1/8” 303 stainless steel rod.  First I cut the pin down and turned the 30o angle on the end of the pin.  The end of the pin has to be very small so it can fit through the ball seat in the manifold to dislodge the valve ball and still let steam get past it to the whistle outlet.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/262a-WhistleValvePin-01-KIM_3268.jpg)

Then I pulled the stainless rod out a bit and cut it off to the required length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/262a-WhistleValvePin-02-KIM_3271.jpg)

Finally, I turned it around in the collet, turned the end portion down to 0.099”, and tapped the very end 3-48.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/262a-WhistleValvePin-03-KIM_3274.jpg)

That completed the whistle valve pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/262a-WhistleValvePin-04-KIM_3277.jpg)

And here it is with the bush button screwed onto the top of the pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/262a-WhistleValvePin-05-KIM_3280.jpg)

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 05, 2024, 11:08:16 PM
Chapter 30.4 – Cap and O-ring Retainer

Next up were the cap and o-ring retainer, still for the whistle control mechanism.

The cap was made from 1/2" hex brass.  I started by drilling a #38 hole through the part (that’s just over the size of the bigger end of the valve pin.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-01-KIM_3283.jpg)

Then I drilled it out to Q size, for tapping 3/8”-24.  But I needed the bottom of the hole to be flat, not cone-shaped (like the end of the drill) so I flattened out the bottom with a tiny boring bar.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-02-KIM_3286.jpg)

And then threaded it 3/8-24.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-03-KIM_3289.jpg)

Finally, I parted the cap off, chamfering the edges of the cap about halfway through.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-04-KIM_3292.jpg)

And here’s the completed cap.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-05-KIM_3295.jpg)

Next, I turned the o-ring retainer.  This was made from 5/16” brass.  It was even simpler than the other parts, so I only took a picture of the final op.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-06-KIM_3298.jpg)

And here’s the whole manifold family shot.  The row along the bottom is the whistle control valve parts I’ve made so far.  From left to right; the button, the cap, the button pin, the o-ring retainer, and finally the o-ring.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/263a-CapAndORingRetainer-07-KIM_3304.jpg)

Just a few parts left for the whistle control; a spring and a plug which will hold the ball bearing and the spring in place on the valve seat.

Thanks for stopping by!
Kim

Edit: I removed an errant emoji!  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 06, 2024, 12:49:00 AM
Nice work, Kim!  Toot! Toot!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 06, 2024, 06:35:40 AM
Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ...  :thinking:

Per        :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 06, 2024, 01:08:10 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2024, 03:20:06 PM
Thanks Todd, Per, and Jeff!

Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ...  :thinking:

Per        :cheers:
I have no idea how that got in there!  Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.

Thanks for noticing that Per!  I have no clue how that snuck in there!  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 06, 2024, 03:21:35 PM
Thanks Todd, Per, and Jeff!

Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ...  :thinking:

Per        :cheers:
I have no idea how that got in there!  Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.

Thanks for noticing that Per!  I have no clue how that snuck in there!  :embarassed:
Slim was probably tired of waiting for his lunch (ribs?   :Lol: )
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 06, 2024, 03:23:30 PM
Thanks Todd, Per, and Jeff!

Why Mad in the second to last picture Kim ?
I mean - All the parts looks good and you do not mention any mishaps ...  :thinking:

Per        :cheers:
I have no idea how that got in there!  Welll, I removed the errant angry emoji now so as to confuse fewer people.

Thanks for noticing that Per!  I have no clue how that snuck in there!  :embarassed:
Slim was probably tired of waiting for his lunch (ribs?   :Lol: )

That must be it!  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 07, 2024, 10:10:58 PM
Chapter 30.5 – Spring and Plug

The spring was made from 0.024” dia stainless steel wire.  Kozo specifies 0.018” diameter for this, but I had 0.024”.  I kinda thought I needed a little stiffer spring than he specified anyway. The button is a little stiff moving through the o-ring and I want to make sure the whistle stops when you stop pressing the button!  This was made with the 0.117” diameter mandrel following the same procedure that has been used many times in this build.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/264a-SpringAndPlug-1-KIM_3307.jpg)

For the plug/spring retainer, I made this from 5/16” hex brass stock.   Simple turning and threading, so just the part-off picture here.  Oh, I should probably mention that Kozo specifies that the width between flats on the hex head for the plug should be 9/32".  However, I chose to ignore that and leave the head 5/16".  I can't see that shaving 1/64" off of each flat will really change much. I'm such a rebel!  :LittleDevil: And besides, if I find that 0.016" makes all the difference, I can always do it later.  ;)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/264a-SpringAndPlug-2-KIM_3311.jpg)

Here’s the family shot with all the parts for the whistle control mechanism.  The previous parts are all assembled on the left (button, pin, cap, O-ring retainer, and O-ring.  The new parts are all on the right; 5/32” Si Nitride bearing, spring, and plug.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/264a-SpringAndPlug-3-KIM_3314.jpg)

I did the ‘whack it with a hammer’ method of creating the ball seat, as Kozo recommends, and then assembled all the parts.  Here’s the final button control stack sitting above the assembly picture so you can see how they all stack up inside.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/264a-SpringAndPlug-4-KIM_3317.jpg)

Now we’ve got a great whistle button assembly, all we need is the whistle for it to control!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 08, 2024, 12:02:19 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I wouldn't be staying up nights worrying about that 1/64" either!  :Lol:

The assembly looks great. I trust you'll be making a whistle for your engine rather than shopping at Wally's Whistle World Wholesale Warehouse?  :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 08, 2024, 01:15:40 AM
Nice work Kim!
Still following along here.

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 08, 2024, 01:51:26 AM
Lots of little parts in that one block!  On to the whistle!!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 08, 2024, 03:25:15 PM
More nicely made little parts, Kim!
Quote
Kozo specifies 0.018” diameter for this, but I had 0.024”.  I kinda thought I needed a little stiffer spring than he specified anyway. The button is a little stiff moving through the o-ring and I want to make sure the whistle stops when you stop pressing the button!
I think that's wise. The little whistle valve I made tended to get a little gunked up and stiff after a few runs on live steam.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 08, 2024, 05:56:22 PM
Thanks all!  :cheers:

I'm excited to get on with the whistle too!

Quote
Kozo specifies 0.018” diameter for this, but I had 0.024”.  I kinda thought I needed a little stiffer spring than he specified anyway. The button is a little stiff moving through the o-ring and I want to make sure the whistle stops when you stop pressing the button!
I think that's wise. The little whistle valve I made tended to get a little gunked up and stiff after a few runs on live steam.
Thanks Ron. Nice to hear some real world experience here.   ;D

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2024, 09:45:57 PM
Chapter 30.6 – Whistle

Today I started on the whistle.  The main body of the whistle was made from 5/8” diameter brass tube.  Kozo specifies a tube with 1/32” wall thickness, but had some K&S brass tube (the kind you can easily pick up from the hobby shop) which has 1/64” wall.  I’m going to use this.  We’ll find out if it works or not. I think it should be fine.

I started by cutting a length of the 5/8” tube then faced off both ends in the lathe so that it was the specified 3 1/8” long.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-01-KIM_3323.jpg)

Then I blued up one end (using a fat permanent felt pen) and marked the locations of the opening for the top of the whistle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-02-KIM_3321.jpg)

I used an X-Acto coping saw to make a small slit along the flat side of the opening, then used files to take off the rest of the area.  I’d pictured it coming out differently than this, but when the brass wall got foil thin, the brass deformed but stayed connected to the edges, like this:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-03-KIM_3326.jpg)

I used the tip of the file and some other pointy things to break out that thin brass foil then cleaned up the edges a little bit.  Here’s what it's supposed to look like!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-04-KIM_3329.jpg)

Here’s the completed whistle tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-05-KIM_3332.jpg)

Now I need to make the head of the whistle.  This was made from 5/8” brass round bar.

I started with the bar in the collet chuck in the lathe and turned the end down to a nice fit with the whistle tube.  Then I moved the whole bar over to the spin indexer on the mill.  Here I cut a 1/8” wide slot in the end of the whistle head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-06-KIM_3335.jpg)

Next, and this is one of the reasons I chose to hold it in the spin indexer, I made a 0.010” notch/arc along the end of the whistle head.  This is where the steam will come out and hit the whistle.  I don’t think this is overly critical, but the width of this notch/arc is supposed to be 3/8”.  I did some rough math and came up with needing to make the 1/8” end mill travel over 40o arc in order to get the appropriate width for the notch.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-07-KIM_3339.jpg)

Here’s that notch from a different angle.  Maybe that’s easier to see?  I only did 5o increments, so you can see the steps there.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-08-KIM_3340.jpg)

Next, I rotated the spin indexer 180o and drilled the air entry hole. This hole doesn’t go all the way through but will connect to another cross hole that will get the steam to the 1/8” notch where it can then go out the small 0.010” notch into the business part of the whistle.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-09-KIM_3344.jpg)

Then I drilled out the top 3/32” of that hole to 5/32” to accept the incoming steam tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265a-Whistle-10-KIM_3347.jpg)

Still more drilling work to do in order to get the steam directed from the inlet here, but this is where I stopped today.

Tune in tomorrow when I might finish up the whistle head!
Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 11, 2024, 09:58:04 PM
Great! Will Tune in for the tuning... whistles can take some testing and tweaking, and do sound a little different  on air vs steam.


 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 11, 2024, 10:00:00 PM
Great! Will Tune in for the tuning... whistles can take some testing and tweaking, and do sound a little different  on air vs steam.

Thanks Chris!

Yeah, Kozo mentions that too.  I'll be voicing this one on air first... eventually steam, but I can't wait that long to see if it works!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 12, 2024, 03:17:33 AM
Nice work, Kim.  Very finicky work there.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 12, 2024, 03:18:04 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great Kim!
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2024, 04:36:37 AM
Thanks Todd and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 12, 2024, 09:05:50 PM
Continuing on with the whistle head, I used the bandsaw to cut the part off the bar stock then faced it to the final length in the lathe.

Now I had to drill that final steam passage.  The problem was, how to hold the part and orient it properly so I could drill the hole.  I ended up using a scrap piece of 1/8” aluminum, with parallel sides, to slide into the 1/8” wide cut-out in the part.  This allowed me to clamp the part and know that the part was being held square with the x-y axis on the mill.  Holding the part this way I used the coaxial indicator to find the center then offset in the Y direction to drill the steam passage.   The passage will intersect with the inlet hole drilled yesterday and then hit the 1/8” cut-out.  The outside end of the hole will be plugged.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265b-Whistle-1-KIM_3350.jpg)

Next, I turned the end cap for the whistle tube.  This was made from the same 5/8” brass stock as the whistle head.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265b-Whistle-2-KIM_3353.jpg)

Now, Kozo shows soft soldering a #3 screw in the end of that hole to close off the cross steam passage.  The major diameter of a #3 screw is 0.99”. The hole it is to plug is #38 (0.101”).  So the screw will just rattle around in that hole which must be why Kozo specifies soft solder here. Silver solder would have a hard time filling that gap.  But I have chosen to fasten my plug using #5-40 threads.  I tapped the end of that hole 5-40 and made a short plug from some 1/8” brass rod.  I’ll file the plug off flush after silver soldering it in place.  Kozo just left the screw head there, which is fine. But I’m going to make it flush. I think it will look prettier.

So, here are all the parts for the whistle to date.  From left to right: the cap for the tube, the whistle tube, the head, and then the 1/8” 5-40 plug. Above is a short length of  5/32” copper tube which will be soldered to the steam inlet hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265b-Whistle-3-KIM_3356.jpg)

Still a few more plumbing parts to make for this – a nipple and closing nut. And then I’ll solder it all together and see if it makes any noise!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 12, 2024, 10:09:23 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 13, 2024, 08:35:20 AM
I like the structure of this pipe and will keep it in mind. Then there will soon be the first sounds.
Concert pitch A.......?

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 13, 2024, 02:28:28 PM
Thanks Jeff and Michael!  :cheers:

I don't know what pitch it will make.  Guess we'll see pretty soon!  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 16, 2024, 11:44:45 PM
Chapter 30.7 – Pressure Gauge Tubing

Finishing up the whistle today!

I've kinda mushed together the completion of the whistle and the pressure gauge tube into this one post.  As you'll see, all the parts were made at the same time, so there seemed no point in trying to separate them.

I started with the pipe nipples.  These were made from some of that 1/4” diameter Nasty-Definitely-Not-360 brass stuff.  I don’t know where I got this from, but I don’t like it.  >:(  I think I'll ditch it and get some REAL 360.  This stuff is the pits.  Anyway, I turned it down to the outer diameter then drilled a small through hole (#52), followed by a shallow 5/32” hole to accept the 5/32” tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-01-KIM_3359.jpg)

I then profiled it and parted it off to length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-02-KIM_3362.jpg)

I made several more of those with small variations in outer diameter and pipe-hole sizes.

Then I moved on to the junction nuts.  I drilled a through hole for the tube, then a not-quite-through hole for 1/4"-32 tapping size, followed by tapping then parting off.  Again, chamfering the edges, which, as we know, is what separates us from the animals!  :Lol: (TM- Blondihacks).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-03-KIM_3365.jpg)

I made various sizes of junction nuts too, one to match each of the pipe nipples.  I also made a couple of 1/4"-32 plugs at the same time.  These aren’t really required for the build, but I want to be able to close off the unused ports on the manifold so I can test things (top two items).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-04-KIM_3368.jpg)

Now for the silver soldering portion of today’s shop time.

I cleaned parts and set up to solder the nipples on one end of the tubes.  The short one on the left is for the whistle, the longer one on the right is the pressure gauge tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-05-KIM_3371.jpg)

Then I setup the other end of the pressure gauge tube (part on the right) – I carefully remembered to add the junction nuts in the CORRECT orientation.  You don’t see them here, but I used a piece of wire to hold them up to the top of the pipe so they didn’t get in the way of the soldering.  The part on the left is the whistle body tube.  I fluxed up the end cap and placed a ring of extra-easy solder on the inside around the edge.  This worked quite well!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-06-KIM_3374.jpg)

I watched carefully to see when the solder at the bottom of the tube flashed – it was a little hard to see, but I was able to tell.  And what made me even happier was to see a nice ring of silver all around the outside of the cap.  That was a nice bonus!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-07-KIM_3377.jpg)

Finally, I soldered the plug into the end of the whistle head (first op) and without letting the part cool down, I turned it on its side and inserted the previously prepared pipe into the inlet hole, and proceeded to solder that in place (2nd op).  Here you can see my wiring job on that top junction nut, to keep it from sliding down into the joint I’m trying to solder.   This two steup solder job went very well, I was pleased!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-08-KIM_3380.jpg)

After a pickle and a clean, here’s a picture of the pressure gauge tube.  And since I haven’t made the pressure gauge, that part doesn’t have anything to connect to yet.  I slide the junction nut on the left side back a bit so you can see how it looks with the pipe nipple soldered to the end.  As you can tell by looking at the right side, the nipple is completely covered by the nut and is pressed into the receiving connection by tightening the junction nut.  These brass-on-brass connections seem to work very well with no leaking.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-11-KIM_3389.jpg)

I assembled all the pieces and mounted them to their new home on top of the boiler.  You can see one of the plugs I made on the front of the manifold.  This is where the pressure gauge will hook up to eventually.  For now, it’s just blocked off, as is the sight gauge port on the other side (which can’t be seen in this picture).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-09-KIM_3383.jpg)

Then, I hooked up the air supply to the boiler for my test.  (Had to take off the sand dome for this.)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/265c-Whistle-10-KIM_3386.jpg)

And here’s video proof of my whistle test!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOXggxpsBqA

This test was done with the pressure set to about 15 psi.  If the pressure got much higher (like over 20psi) the whistle started to sound really breathy, like you’re blowing on a flute too hard.  I’m hoping that under steam it will work better at the higher pressures since it will be running around 80-90 psi most of the time.

Regardless, I‘m quite pleased with the whistle and the whistle control valve. They seem to work pretty well.

Thanks for looking in.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 17, 2024, 12:22:07 AM
Sweet sounding whistle!!   :cartwheel:  Great!




That brass looks like 260, nasty stuff to turn!  Polish it up and hope the shop gnomes steal it!   :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2024, 04:56:53 AM
Sweet sounding whistle!!   :cartwheel:  Great!




That brass looks like 260, nasty stuff to turn!  Polish it up and hope the shop gnomes steal it!   :Lol:
Thanks Chris!

That sounds like a good idea!  I don't quite know where I got this. Probably something I picked up many years ago before I knew better.  It's probably some of that hobby shop 'mystery brass' that they sell in those cardboard metal stands.  It works great if all you want is a length of round shiny stuff. But if you want to work the metal, not so much!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: fumopuc on March 17, 2024, 07:43:39 AM
Kim, sure a good feeling if it works like it should.
In my understanding these are the nice milestones during a long journey to build a model.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 17, 2024, 08:47:49 AM
Love the Note / Sound of your Whistle  :Love:

I admittedly can't tell how far from completion you are on this build - but it looks like you are on the last leg (at least in regards to be able to run by itself) ....

Per          :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: RReid on March 17, 2024, 02:14:09 PM
I was about to say that now you can now mark hours in the shop with whistle toots (break time, quitting time, etc.), but realized I don't want to impose that on you! Wouldn't want to ruin such a nice sounding whistle by making it an annoyance! Looking forward to the next bits. :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 17, 2024, 04:43:32 PM
Excellent  :praise2: Toot Toot  :)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 17, 2024, 08:57:12 PM
Nice work on the whistle and valve assembly Kim!
Sounds good too!

Dave
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 17, 2024, 10:07:52 PM
Thanks, everyone!  :cheers:

Yeah, I'm getting close(ish) to being done.  Just the sight glass, cab, water & oil piping - plus a few little miscellaneous items. And paint... But it's getting close!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Dave Otto on March 18, 2024, 01:37:43 AM
There is a cab in there somewhere?
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2024, 04:24:10 AM
There is a cab in there somewhere?

Yeah, go figure!   Not much of one though! :Lol:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 18, 2024, 02:10:07 PM
WOOT!  WOOT!

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 18, 2024, 06:22:08 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: That sounds excellent Kim, for running on air! It should sound even better on steam. Nice job.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 18, 2024, 09:48:27 PM
Thanks Todd and Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2024, 09:06:07 PM
Chapter 31.1 – Water Gauge

This week I started work on the water gauge (or sight glass as I seem to call it most of the time).  I spent most of yesterday just working out my plans on how I was going to do this little guy.  As with many of these parts, this one is a lot of work!  Lots of little pieces to make up the final unit!

The first part I’m making is the sight glass body.  Kozo’s plan for the sight glass (or water gauge) has two tubes that are connected, in parallel, to the top and bottom (well, middle) of the boiler.  Of the two tubes, one of them is brass and the other is glass.  The brass tube can take the stress and strain of the mounting and such and supports the glass tube in front of it.  This arrangement helps to keep the glass more safe.

Today, I’ll start on the brass tube that provides the structural and mounting support for the gauge.   This is made from 7/16” brass rod.  I started by drilling ‘most’ of the way through the column with a 3/32” drill.  I had to use my cheaper jobber length drill. All my nicer bits are screw machine length and too short to make the 1.875” deep hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-1-KIM_3392.jpg)

Then I switched to a 7/32” drill and widened the hole for most (but not all) the length
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-2-KIM_3395.jpg)

Then I slid the bar out of the collet to get the full length of the column.  One benefit of drilling the hole first is that it allowed me to use a live center to help support the part during turning.  I shaved just a bit off the diameter here – Kozo specifies it to be 13/32” in diameter.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-3-KIM_3398.jpg)

With the turning done, I removed the live center and threaded the end of the column 1/4-32 for a drain plug.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-4-KIM_3401.jpg)

Now, before I cut the part off the parent stock, I moved it over to the spin indexer in the mill.   The parent stock is still quite long (~3’ or so) and the spindexer worked well for this.  You can see the stock sticking out the back in this picture!  In this setup, I milled a very shallow 3/16” hole for the lower glass holder attachment point.  You can also see my Sharpie marks to help me know the correct orientation for all the holes.  This part is NOT symmetrical, so I wouldn’t want to get it wrong!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-5-KIM_3404.jpg)


I rotated the part 90o and did the same for the mounting hole.  Then I spotted the center of these and drilled 1/8” deep enough to break into the long hole down the center of the part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-6-KIM_3407.jpg)

With the two lower holes complete, I then moved to the location of the upper glass holder attachment point and drilled all the way through the part with the 3/16” mill.  This one really does go all the way through the part.  I considered using a 3/16 drill for this but opted for the mill since it intersects with the end of the long hole down the center and I didn’t want that to deflect the hole at all.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-7-KIM_3410.jpg)

With all holes drilled it was time to separate the part from the parent stock.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-8-KIM_3413.jpg)

Here’s the completed brass column. In the picture here, you can see how it will eventually have the upper and lower glass holders attached to it.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266a-WaterGauge-9-KIM_3416.jpg)

That’s all the farther I got on this part today.  I’ll pick up here later in the week. (Not tomorrow – that’s got other family tasks assigned to it.)

Thanks for looking in,
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 19, 2024, 11:35:33 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Parts are looking great Kim! You know, they may have called a water gauge a sight glass so shop elves wouldn't confuse it with a shot glass... :thinking:  :shrug: :Lol:  (hard to see water level thru a short wide vessel)  ::)
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2024, 04:32:24 AM
Thanks Jeff!

Good point on the Shot/Sight glass differentiation!  Help keep the shop elves out of mischief!  :ROFL:

Kim

 
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 20, 2024, 08:48:11 AM
Hello Kim,

I would have used the brass column for a hatched sign to mount it there with a bracket. Maybe there's room for a sign there.

A good start at the water level glass!
(It's called "Wasserstandsanzeigeglas" in German. A long word. Can't be confused with a shot glass ( Schnapsglas )  :cheers: 😁)

Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 20, 2024, 02:13:01 PM
Beautiful piece of work there, Kim.

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 20, 2024, 02:40:06 PM
Thanks Michael and Todd!  :cheers:

I would have used the brass column for a hatched sign to mount it there with a bracket. Maybe there's room for a sign there.
Is the idea that the hatched sign makes it easier to see the water level in the glass?

A good start at the water level glass!
(It's called "Wasserstandsanzeigeglas" in German. A long word. Can't be confused with a shot glass ( Schnapsglas )  :cheers: 😁)
Ah, even better!  Less confusion!  Can't be too careful with these shop elves  :ROFL:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Michael S. on March 20, 2024, 05:56:46 PM
Yes Kim, you can see the water level better.

Greetings Michael
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on March 20, 2024, 08:21:29 PM
Quietly enjoying this.        :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:   Terry
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2024, 10:41:26 PM
Thanks Terry!  :cheers:

I take my sweet time, don't I?  :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2024, 10:49:45 PM
Next, I made the bottom of the sight glass holder.  This was made from 7/16” brass rod.  First I drilled a small hole that will meet the inlet port on the side, and then drilled it out to a few thou over the actual size of the glass tube I will be using.  I purchased 1/4" glass tube, but the outside diameter measures 0.238”  That’s really 6mm, isn't it?  :thinking:  Anyway, Kozo says to make these holes 0.04” over the actual diameter of your glass tube.  So I drilled “C”, which is 0.242”.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-01-KIM_3419.jpg)

Then I made 7/16-28 threads on the end. This will be for the glass holding nut.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-02-KIM_3422.jpg)

And then parted it off.  It’s important to note that the center hole does NOT go all the way through on this part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-03-KIM_3425.jpg)

However, for the top sight glass holder, the hole DOES go all the way through.  It was again, drilled “C”, then widened out for a short bit for 5/16-24 threads.  This will be for the top plug.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-04-KIM_3428.jpg)

And parted off the parent stock.  Again, the 0.242” hole goes all the way through this part.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-05-KIM_3431.jpg)

Now that it is parted off we can get to the back side, which will be the lower end. And this end needs to be threaded 7/16-28 for another one of those glass holding nuts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-06-KIM_3434.jpg)

The last ‘major’ part for the sight glass assembly is the attachment ring.  This was made from 1/2" brass. It was drilled through at 5/16” and then had a 1/8” groove bored on the inside out to 3/8”.  I was trying so hard to get where you could see the groove that the bitty boring was obscured by the tool post.  Ah well,  you can imagine it.  ;D
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-07-KIM_3437.jpg)

I parted the attachment ring off but forgot to get a pic.  I’m betting you’re getting bored of those ‘parting-off’ pictures anyway, aren’t you?  :embarassed:

Each of these three parts needs an attachment hole. These were made just like on the larger brass column – a 3/16” mill to create a flat mating surface and then a 1/8” hole going to the center hole of the item.  I did this to all three of them.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-10-KIM_3446.jpg)

Then I moved to 3/16” brass stock and made a series of three little connecting rods. These will connect the sight glass top, bottom, and attachment ring to the brass column previously made.  These each had a 1/8” nipple on the end and a 3/32” hole going clear through their length.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-08-KIM_3440.jpg)

They were parted off to the correct length, then flipped around to add the 1/16” nipple to the opposite side.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-09-KIM_3443.jpg)

And here we have the growing sight glass family.  The top and bottom glass holder, the brass column, the attachment ring, and three little baby connecting rods.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266b-WaterGauge-11-KIM_3449.jpg)

There are a few more parts to make for this, then I’ll solder it all together.
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 22, 2024, 03:38:41 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2024, 09:49:35 PM
Thanks Jeff!  :cheers:
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2024, 10:05:24 PM
I said I needed to make a few more parts before soldering, but I decided to go ahead and solder what I had, then later I'll make the remaining plumbing fixtures.

So, I set up to solder the three sight glass appendages to their respective attachment pipes.  I used medium silver solder for this.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-1-KIM_3452.jpg)

Here’s the after shot.  As can be seen, I also used a bit of stainless wire to help hold the pipe firmly in place while soldering.  This caused me a little problem in that I forgot to put any white-out or anything on the wire so a bit of it got soldered to the inside of the pipe.   I ended up using a drill to ream the soldered wire out of the hole.  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-2-KIM_3455.jpg)

After cleaning up the appendages, I set them up to be soldered onto the brass column that is the backbone of the sight glass assembly.  Note the steel rod (turned to exactly 0.242”) was inserted into the holes where the sight glass will be. That was to keep the upper and lower sight glass holders in alignment.  Another very clever part of Kozo's design is that the connection for the upper sight glass holder is a 3/16" tube that goes all the way through the column. That way, the distance from the column for that element is actually set by the lower sight glass holder and the steel pipe.  The 3/16" tube can slide in or out to keep the sight glass end points perfectly aligned!  Very clever.  Now, after taking this picture I noticed that the boiler attachment ring was askew.  Luckily I noticed it before soldering and was able to get it aligned correctly. (Crisis averted! - Just barely  :insane:)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-3-KIM_3458.jpg)

And the after-solder shot.  You can see how I tried to hold the boiler attachment ring in place here (with some wire and by propping it on a block to hold it in proper alignment).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-4-KIM_3461.jpg)

A pickle & cleanup cycle later, I had one more piece to solder on – the upper supply pipe.  I stacked brick pieces in such a way as to help block the flame from the previously soldered joints.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-5-KIM_3464.jpg)

After one more cleanup, there was another thing I needed to do to this assembly before it was done(ish).  Remember how I said the pipe upper glass sight tube connector was a long tube that went all the way through the brass column?  Well, that tube needs to have a hole drilled in the side to connect it to the hole running up the inside of that brass column.  This is an important part of this design.  The brass column and the glass column need to both be open to the boiler on the top and the bottom.  To open up this hole I used a 3/32” bit in my hand-held cordless drill to punch that hole through one side of the tube.  This was simple and it worked just great!
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-6-KIM_3470.jpg)

Here’s the final shot of the sight glass assembly.  That long copper tube will eventually be bent to some fancy shape to attach to one side of the whistle manifold I made a few weeks ago.  But for the moment, I’ll just move forward with the other sight glass parts.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/266c-WaterGauge-7-KIM_3467.jpg)

Thanks for checking in on my glacial progress!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 23, 2024, 10:26:42 PM
Fine work on the elves new telescope, er, I mean your sight glass holder!   :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Roger B on March 24, 2024, 07:45:53 AM
Another fiddly piece well on the way  :praise2:  :wine1:

I also have moved over mostly to stub (screw machine) drills. More rigid and convenient for small machines. Sets seem rare around here though.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 24, 2024, 01:38:51 PM
Hi Roger, yup, the stub drills are very useful. I rescued a bunch of them from the scrap pile at a firm I worked for years ago, and resharpened. New stub length ones are not easy to find here either, and costly if you can find them. I also use jobber length drills, which can be cut to stub length if need be (they are much less costly here than other drill types, and some brands are good quality). But for jobber length ones, I find an extra long centre drill is a handy accessory as it saves a lot of head or table moves by being same sort of length as the jobber drill. They don't flex enough to become an issue if used gently. I don't buy them smaller dia than about 3/16" to keep them as rigid as can be.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2024, 03:09:12 PM
Lots of them here, at least for the US. They do ship to Canada too. McMaster has them too, though I've heard shipping outside the US from them is iffy.

https://drillsandcutters.com/cobalt-stub-drills/

Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2024, 03:29:15 PM
Yeah, I got a nice set of Cobalt screw machine length (stubby) drill bits (fractional, number, and letter) about 7-8 years ago (Chicago-Latrobe). It was probably one of the best tool investments I've made.  They have served well for many projects.  There's only a handful of times I wish I had the jobber length drills.  And when I need those, I've got a cheap set of drills from Harbor Freight ($30 - complete set) that suffice for those times.  Not nearly as nice of drills - not very sharp and not very accurately sized, but they pass in a pinch.

I really like my stubby length drills. What they buy me in Z-height is way more valuable than what I lose in drill length!

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 25, 2024, 09:28:09 PM
Chapter 31.2 – Plug and Nut

Next Kozo has you make the plug for attaching the water gauge to the boiler. Also, the union nut for attaching the top end of the water gauge to the manifold.  This seems a bit out of order since you can’t finish soldering parts on the water gauge till the nut is made.  On the other hand, you can’t really get the proper length of the copper tube till you can mount the water gauge on the boiler.  So maybe it is in the right order.  That Kozo... he's one smart cookie!

The plug was turned from 3/8” hex brass stock.  The center hole for the steam is 3/32”.  Of course, that hole doesn’t go all the way through, only up past the threads so it intersects a TBD(To Be Drilled) cross hole.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/267a-PlugAndNut-1-KIM_3474.jpg)

After parting off the plug, I moved to the mill where I proceeded to drill said cross hole. I was going to do it with the 3/32” end mill but I’d mounted the plug just a bit too far in the collet, and the edge of the mill hit the angled face of the column just a little before I got all the way through the plug.  So I finished the hole off with a 3/32” drill bit.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/267a-PlugAndNut-2-KIM_3477.jpg)

With the plug in hand, now I connect the water gauge to the boiler and see about how long the copper tube to the manifold needs to be.  I did a little bending, then marked it and then cut the copper tube at that length.  Figured I could do the fine-tuning on the bending after the nut and nipple were mounted.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/267a-PlugAndNut-3-KIM_3480.jpg)

Well, I didn’t show making the nut and nipple, but I did.  It was exactly the same as I did for the whistle, so I didn’t repeat it here.  With those parts made, I slipped the nut on the copper tube (carefully noting the orientation!) then soldered the nipple to the end of the tube.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/267a-PlugAndNut-4-KIM_3483.jpg)

After clean up, I remounted the sight glass to the boiler and fine-tuned the tube so that it would connect with the manifold AND keep the sight glass vertical.  You’ll note that apparently, I wasn’t very good at estimating the length of the copper tube. I had to put a bit of an S-curve in it to get things to match up properly.  Ah well.  It ought to work just fine with that extra character.  :embarassed:
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/267a-PlugAndNut-5-KIM_3489.jpg)

Next, I’ll be making the gland nuts for mounting the glass tube.
Thanks for looking in!
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 25, 2024, 10:05:18 PM
It all adds up - both to the functionallity and the Caracter off the Loco, Kim.

You will alway reconize it as yours (and so will we) ;D

Still a great result off all your work and effort  :ThumbsUp:

Per   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 25, 2024, 10:21:26 PM
The S is for Switcher!   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 26, 2024, 12:35:02 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great Kim! If anyone ever asks about the S bend, just tell them it helps keep the Reynolds number of the steam flow where it needs to be.... :Lol:  :thinking:  :atcomputer:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Prowler901 on March 26, 2024, 02:37:33 AM
Excellent work!  Better that that copper tube was a little too long, rather than too short. :)

Todd
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2024, 04:47:48 AM
It all adds up - both to the functionality and the Character of the Loco, Kim.
Thanks Per!  Yes, my engine has PLENTY of character  :ROFL:

The S is for Switcher!
If anyone ever asks about the S bend, just tell them it helps keep the Reynolds number of the steam flow where it needs to be....
Both are excellent reasons for the S-curve.  However, the real reason it's there is to improve the interaction of the steam flow though the flux capacitor  :lolb:

Better that that copper tube was a little too long, rather than too short. :)

No joke there!  Been there done that...
Reminds me of Jeff's tag line "I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!" (TM)   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 26, 2024, 11:39:38 AM
 :Lol: :cheers:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2024, 09:15:45 PM
Chapter 31.3 – Glass Tube and Gland Nuts

Today I made the glass tube and the gland nuts.

However, before I started that, I had two more plugs that I had to make. Guess I missed these yesterday.  The one on the left is a plug for the top glass tube connector - that tube has to be open so you can insert the glass tube, then you plug it up with this plug.  The one on the right is for the bottom of the brass column.  Having a plug at the bottom of this allows you to drain the water out of the sight glass.  Having the column open also allows you to drill the steam passages. But being able to drain is the important reason (I’m saying anyway :)).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-1-KIM_3493.jpg)

Now, on to today's main event.  I made the gland nuts first. These are a little more complex than your standard union nuts.  First, you drill through with a drill that is 0.008” larger in diameter than your glass tube.  Since my tube was 0.238”, I used a letter D bit which is 0.246”.  Nice that the letter drills worked out so close for me, isn’t it?  To make a spot for the O-rings, Kozo specifies making the hole 0.125” larger than the OD of the glass tube.  So for me, that was 0.363”.  The closest drill I had to that was 23/64” or 0.3594”.  Pretty close -within 0.004”. The next closest was “U” at 0.368”.  I chose to go under by 4 thou rather than over by 5.  Probably six to one, half a dozen to the other…
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-2-KIM_3496.jpg)

And finally, I drilled and tapped 7/16”-24.  This is a very thin nut - there is only room for about 4.3 threads.  Even a bottom tap has several threads of taper on the tip of the tap. So I got TWO bottom taps and ground one to where the taper was almost gone completely. I tapped with the un-ground bottom tap to start with, giving a full thread or two. Then  I followed it up with my ground off tap. This gave me at least 4 full threads!  I was pretty pleased with that.  I wouldn’t want to thread much with this severely ground tap, but it worked to clean up those last couple of threads so they were usable.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-3-KIM_3499.jpg)

I then cut the nut off (with appropriate chamfering).  And made a second one.

Finally, I needed to cut the glass tube to length.  Cutting glass always scares me, but this worked out pretty well.  I put some tape on the area where I was going to cut. This not only allowed me to mark my cut, it also served to help keep the glass chunks under control, should I break it.  I then used a carbide tipped scribe to scratch around the glass tube, scoring it nicely where I wanted it to break.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-4-KIM_3503.jpg)

I then VERY GENTLY placed the part in the soft-jaw vice with the scribed line right at the edge of the jaws.  There was minimal pressure on the glass, and the tape helped protect the tube too.  Then I winced and did a quick snap right at the edge of the vise.  Magically enough, the tube broke right where I wanted it to!  And it was mostly a clean break.  I did it a couple of times and picked the best one.  Then I cleaned up the ends on a fine grinding wheel (with the tape still in place).
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-5-KIM_3506.jpg)

And here are all the parts I made today :)
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-6-KIM_3510.jpg)

It took a bit to figure out how to assemble it.  I started by wedging the o-rings in the bottom of those nuts in the flat that was made for them. Then I threaded them in place, leaving them very loose.  Next, I worked the glass tube down through the o-rings and gland nuts till it was in place. Then carefully finger tightened the gland nuts.  And finally, put the top plug in to close it all up.

And here it is, all done.  Even seems to hold air!  I’m getting some leaking around the manifold – don’t think my blank plugs are holding well.  Or maybe it's my gasket?  But the sight glass didn’t seem to leak, as best I could tell.  Probably should do a hydro test.  And maybe I will eventually. But not today.
(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-7-KIM_3513.jpg)

(https://lister-engine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/268a-GlassTube-8-KIM_3516.jpg)

And that wraps up Kim’s day in the shop.  Thanks for stopping by :)
Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 26, 2024, 09:19:23 PM
Nice!  For cutting the glass tube, I've always used a triangular needle file and scored around the tube with that, less pressure than using a scriber tip, just normal filing action. The tape and the rest are the way to go.
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 26, 2024, 09:29:54 PM
Nice!  For cutting the glass tube, I've always used a triangular needle file and scored around the tube with that, less pressure than using a scriber tip, just normal filing action. The tape and the rest are the way to go.
Interesting... I originally tried a small triangle needle file but it didn't seem to be biting into the glass at all - didn't seem like I was getting a score line.  Maybe my needle files are just too old and dull?  Or maybe that's just me that's getting old and dull  :-\

Kim
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: cnr6400 on March 26, 2024, 09:50:34 PM
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I've also had good luck with scored line / sharp file / snap method for cutting glass tube. Deep score and a hard snap are needed for thicker glass. Drop of oil sometimes helps, but I have no idea why.  :thinking: Paging Bill Nye, come in Bill Nye.... :Lol:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: crueby on March 26, 2024, 10:08:19 PM
A lot depends on the file - many of the needle files don't have teeth on the corners. I've got a couple sets, one of them is fairly smooth on the corners, other has teeth there. Or, as you said, could be just dull. Nice thing about the file trick is that you dont have to put as much pressure on a small curved surface as with a scriber. If you have a diamond coated file, that is the best choice since it will cut glass nice and evenly.

With either tool, and after snapping it, vacuuming right away to catch any glass dust is a good idea.
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on March 27, 2024, 08:40:43 AM
Hi

I bought one of these little gadgets. £6 - £7 on eBay. They work really well.

(https://i.imgur.com/pC9v5af.png)

Also after cutting I heat the end of the tube with a small torch and that removes the sharp edge.

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Firebird on March 27, 2024, 08:46:10 AM
sorry about the over size image I forgot to re-size it
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: scc on March 27, 2024, 12:06:44 PM
Nice job Kim  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Pennsylvania A3 Switcher (Kozo)
Post by: Kim on March 27, 2024, 02:29:56 PM
Thanks Terry!

That looks like a nice little tool, Rich!  If I were doing any amount of glass cutting, I'd have to pick one up!

Kim
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