Model Engine Maker
Supporting => Tooling & Machines => Topic started by: steamer on July 28, 2012, 08:16:50 PM
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Hello
Well, this is the saga of my 9" Southbend model A long bed. Man does this feel wierd starting again!
It started about a year and a half ago when a family member said he had this lathe and wanted to know if I would be interested in it?
Well....I had 4 lathes at the time...not all in running condition....so adding another one to the mix seemed dubious at best....however, the price was right...."come and get it out of my shop"....so...I figuired I'd at least fake interest and check it out.
Here's how I found her
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310067.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310068.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310070.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310072.jpg)
Her serial number put her at October/November 1951. She is a long bed with the large dial option...very sought after...and I know my eyes aren't getting any better...so going forward...a nice to have
She came with a collet set. drawbar. rack, lantern toolpost,motor and a pretty sad bench my family member had made.....that had to go!
I performed the tighten the saddle lock with the saddle in front of the headstock and then roll it back toward the tailstock test, and it didn't seem worn at all! The flaking is still showing on the bed in most places....once I got underneath the scrunge....which was heavy
It appears to have spent some time in a automotive paint shop as there was several colors of overspray all over the lathe.....but seemed to look worse than it really was....it was pretty crusty!
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One of the first things I did was to come up with a plan for what I wanted it to be.
The SB is advantageous because parts are readily available for them. Its the right size for small work, and there are lots of specialized accessories that can be purchased or made.
I decided I wanted the following
T slotted cross slide
tool post mounted drill spindle
tool post mounted milling spindle
Milling attachment
indexing head for the spindle
Steel base
3 jaw
4 jaw
faceplates
steadies
drill chucks
full collets
and QCTP.
I decided I wanted to use a AXA wedge toolpost so I could keep that in common with my Logan tooling.
One of the first parts I made was the T slotted cross slide,,,,,and I'll post on that next
Dave
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One of the first things I noticed was the countershaft. The bearings were clearly worn. The bearing on this one is the cast iron of the housing, and the shaft was very worn. I decided to bore the housing for oilite bearings, and make a new shaft.
I set up the casting on the shop made boring table for my Logan. The boring bar started life as a piece of scrap from the lucky box.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0085-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0086-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0087-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0088-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0089-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0090-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0091-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/100_0094-1.jpg)
Dave
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I know it's "starting over" yet again, but this is a good thread to have here, Dave. It's a wonderful treatise on
scraping, and how to apply the techniques. :ThumbsUp:
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Good to see this thread again. It jogs a bit my grey cells. I have to admit that I do not have patience to restore/refurbish an old machine but the way its done is still very educational (at least for me).
Will be following you Dave on your journey.
Vince
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Glad to see this too.
One never knows what bargains you can run across and it's good to have some idea of what a good bargain looks like, how much work is needed, or what skills are required.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for your comments! I will be keeping this thread short If I can. The focus of the forum is model engines...so in keeping with
Quickee Machine Modifications......I'll be keeping this one WAY under the 50 pages it was over at the other place. I'll publish enough to keep it interesting...and you can follow it along until completion.
Just shorter....OK...?
Thanks!
Dave
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Hi Dave, I hope we have been making progress on the Southbend.
Don
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Hi Don,
Thanks for the interest and support!
I've picked up a few things for it....but not much lately. I found a MINT lever action collet closer and a perfect Albrecht chuck for short money. So I jumped on it
I'm nearing the point where I can send the bed out. I have some expenses that I need to take care of....but it's close.
I'm counting on this being a winter scraping project...so the Wallaby is on the front burner...Work is nuts and there is so much to do with the boat....I may just pass on the boating season this year altogether....Not cheap keeping a steamboat going either!
I'm just kinda spread thin right now. time and money wise The wallaby is keeping busy and is less stressful to the resources and is an outlet for the mind.
Dave
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Sounds great Dave, mybe soon you will be making projects on it.
I finally got my lathe, I bought a Myford Super 7 from a member on the forum. Very good condition and I love the way it cuts and makes threads. Check out my motor modifcation thread.http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,544.0.html
I just finished doing the adjustments and mods to it I also put a QC tool post on it.
Don
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Next week I'll be working on crating up my SB bed to be sent off to be ground in Illinois. I will make arrangements.
I'll fill in the blanks from the first page...and bring it all up to date hopefully tomorrow.....
Dave
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:whoohoo: that is exciting! Can't wait to see what it looks like when it gets back.
Keep at it.
Mike O
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Great Dave, glad to see you finally getting it done. I know you have been anxious to finish it.
Don
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Here's the plan ....and the reason for the grind.
I am of the opinion that a scraped bed allows grit in under the saddle. Because of the oil pockets, or flaking , oil has a place to stay on the bed of the lathe.....this is great for holding oil!....but it also holds dirt and its a point of entry for grit.....it naturally sits down in the pocket with gravity's help. This is a view taken by Forrest Addy....and others....and I think it's correct.
OK...additionally, if I scrape the bed, I'll need a master that is about 30" long...as a minimum....and a surface plate big enough to keep that straight edge in tune. that's a big plate even across the diagonal! I don't have room for that and for what I would spend getting a plate that size and buying/making a straight edge.....I could pay to have the bed ground....it will have a flat consistant surface for the wipers to bear against...and I can use the bed as a master to scrape in the saddle and tailtstock. If I use a scraper blade with a tight radius...it will have all the oil pocketing I need....and I think it will be cleaner to boot.
That's the plan.... .....anyway.
Dave
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And to fund this....I'll be leaving my boat on the trailer this year and not bringing it to Lee's mills. I'll go for a day or two...but ....time an money are the issue this year.
Dave
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A nice straight bed is a great feature to have in a lathe. This should be a beauty when it's all finished Dave
Steve
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I'm hoping Steve....with the basic precision...and the added attachments....she'll be hard to beat.
Dave
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Dave,
What makes the the grinders in Illinois worth the extra cost of shipping the bed that far?
Dan
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The price...and word of mouth on ability to do the job.
Around my area....the price is VERY high....(extortion too high)....and they've never done a Southbend before.
This guy has......so I have to spend some money to ship it.
Dave
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Hey Steve....is this the drive you were thinking of?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-HP-WEG-Electric-Variable-Frequency-Drive-Inverter-1-Phase-120V-2-6-AMPS-NEW-/290696236079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aed88c2f
Dave
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Dave you can get them a lot cheaper then that. This is where I bought mine. http://dealerselectric.com/mfgr.asp?mID=14 at $119 plus freight.
Don
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Thanks Don! I'll look into that!
Dave
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Yep that's the type of thing. I think the one you linked to is vectorised, which you don't absolutely need. I'd go at least 3/4 HP, you'll need it when you slow the thing down and you normally loose about 20% of your power due to the rough approximation they make for the AC sin wave.
You'll also need a 230V 3 phase motor. Here at least 3 phase is usually 415, which gives 240 upon switching from Star to Delta wound.
Anyway, I've got to get back to work
Steve
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Thanks Steve and Don! Don did you get your motor there too?
Dave
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Just picked up a MT2 tailstock die holder for the SB today...along with the Keats...
Dave
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Yea Dave, both at the same dealer. I bought the 120v input, 1phase ,1hp drive for my bandsaw. The motor cost more then the drive.
Just picked up a MT2 tailstock die holder for the SB today...along with the Keats...
Dave
Need to get me one. I have to wait a while, just pick up four jaw chuck and adapter plate, and 4"angle plate for my Myford. Plus a 5C indexer with collets. I want the 5C collet chuck next.
Don
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Another place (option) you can get drives from is automation direct
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS1_%28120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS1_Drive_Units_%28120_-z-_230_VAC%29 (http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS1_%28120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS1_Drive_Units_%28120_-z-_230_VAC%29)
I have one of their 1HP drives running a 3/4 HP motor on my milling machine, which I'm happy with.
You probably already know this but you can change most modern 3 phase motors from star to delta config by swapping some external connections over. This will reduce the required voltage by a factor of 1/sqrt(3) = 0.57735. Here this drops 415V to 240V which is just what you need for this application. I don't know what the situation is in the states, but the factor of 1/sqrt(3) stands regardless. Often you can do a bit of hacking and soldering on motors that are hard wired as star-config, something I've had to resort to.
BTW - I think I was wrong stating that that WEG drive is vectorised, not sure why they cost more, but the situation is similar over here.
Steve
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Steve it is the same here, however most motors we buy here are dual voltage rating. So reconnecting is just a matter of changing the nine lead configuration. Some foreign made motors exist here and are six lead motor and star delta configured for dual voltage.
By the way the Teco drive is a vector drive if I remember correctly.
I also checked out automation directs drives they look exactly like the Teco drives.
Don
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Yep - No probs Don
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This looks attractive from the perspective of 115 volt input....variable speed....ect
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=4705
Steve, does this jive with the features you have?
Dave
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Seems to have everything you need, so I'd expect it to be good. It's got a knob for speed control already, which is good!
Steve
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Thanks Steve....It's on the list!
Dave
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That is the same one I have Dave. You can connect external start stop and speed adj. you just have to reprogram it. No problem there bud.
Don
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Thanks Don!
Dave
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OK...got into some serious discussions with the grind house. Passing drawings back and forth...just so we understand eachother.
I need to get some of the brown stuff to crate this thing. Gonna try to get it out the door next week..... BUSY BUSY!
Dave
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Sounds great Dave, bet your excited to be finally getting it done. Hope you post some photos when you get her back. My Myford is a dream next to my Micro Mark Micro lux lathe love the QC gearbox.
Don
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Yeah...more pics would be great. Been a while. ;D
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Here's a couple of the latest.....now it all comes apart to be shipped out....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-04-19_20-40-52_152-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-04-03_19-15-24_43-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-04-05_20-21-37_848-1.jpg)
Dave
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Ooooh! That is one beautiful pieces of machinery. You did a great job on it Dave.
Don
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Thanks Don....still got a ways to go...
Grind the bend
Scrape the saddle
Scrape the Headstock
Scrape Tailstock
Figuire out where the leadscrew finaly ended up!
Adjust the QC box and leadsrew hanger to match
.....then finish off the tooling.
Dave
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Very nice looking. Thanks for the pics. I was wondering.
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Dave
You will have a mighty fine machine when you are finished with it. Are you sure you will want to use it after all the work you have put into it??
Vince
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Dave
You will have a mighty fine machine when you are finished with it. Are you sure you will want to use it after all the work you have put into it??
Vince
Are you kidding! Of course I do! :ROFL:
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She's a long one Dave, but nice and pretty! When you say scrape the headstock, do you mean the bearings or to fit the bed regrind?
Steve
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Hi Steve,
That would be the fit to the bed. The spindle bearings are absolutely perfect, I don't even think they need adjusting!
Dave
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OK the crate is done!
Now to get a frieght forwarder and find a trucking company...
Dave
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-09_16-03-26_204.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-09_16-03-17_79.jpg)
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That's some crate! Being shipped eh? To quote someone else..."Good luck with that." ;D
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Nice job on the crate Dave, I know that you anxious to finally get it off the the grinders. Good luck hope all goes well.
Don
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Thanks Don and Zee! The grinder house is in Illinois....about 1200 miles....so no driving trip for me......
It'll be insured....
The name of the place is"
Forest City Grinding.
Dave Johnson Proprieter.
Dave
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Nice crate :NotWorthy:
Just seeing that should make the grinder mob respect the lathe. I just hope the carriers are good, about 50% here think the word fragile means let's see how hard we can throw it.
Best Regards
Bob
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Hope it goes well Dave
Steve
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Me too guys! I found a trucking company about a mile from where I work that is competitive and has enough insurance to cover the cost of the package as part of the deal. ....Time to pack it up!
Got pricing from truckers in the area of the shop.....WOW! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they wanted more to insure than the cost of the shipping!
Dave
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Bob
That was the intent of the crate. Show them i care
Ive had some good discussions with the owner too. Coming up with a drawing was key!
Dave
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Crated! Ready to go!
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-11_20-58-07_879.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-11_20-58-15_439.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-11_20-58-50_791.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-11_21-07-40_232.jpg)
Dave
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West bound and down! Loaded up and truckin!
I'm excited.....and terrified.....guess we'll see!
Dave
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Fair winds and following seas :cheers:
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Dave glad to see it finally on it way. Let us know when it returns.
Don
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Well.....Papa smurf has some work to do on the rest of it....stay tuned!
Dave
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Added a Keats angle plate and tailstock die holder to the list of accessories so far.
I need to add indexing to the spindle. I am considering a version of the SB way....looks like this.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/SBindexholes-1.jpg)
I'm thinking instead of a block bolted to the headstock, I'd anchor a block to the bench or even better, anchored to the inner ways of the bed with an index arm holding the index pin. I'll need to disassemble the HS and machine the index holes in the cone pulley. That way it's completely independant of what is in the spindle. I think 1 row of 60 will cover 90% of most things I do...beyond that we get into spindle indexing with a dividing head....which I haven't finalized yet.....though If I can think of a nice universal mount that doesn't interfer with collet draw bars and such...I'll do that instead.
Dave
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Bin following your adventure with the SB for some time Dave and it brings back lots of memories, the first lathes we were let lose on in the aprentice shop were South Bends can't remember which model but a bit smaller than your's they were all lease lend jobs sent over in WW2. Also did a bit of slide ways grinding on an old brown and sharp grinder I think that one was WW1 vintage lovely machine though that had been well looked after.
Looking forward to the winter scrape :Jester:
Stew
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Thanks for the support and interest Stew! I'm looking forward to it too!
I'll start with the saddle.....then the HS and then the TS. I'm hoping the HS won't need very much more than a touch up. It showed some misalignment on the test bar.....which may be that the HS has stress relieved itself over time....but it wasn't much so it won't take much
After the TS....the turret tailstock will be next....followed by the steadyrests ( both of them)....and we'll be good there
This whole plan is based on the BED being my scraping reference. I don't have any references that big or anyway to mark up and scrape a reference that big....hence the "grinding the bed" solution. The ground bed will be the master reference and standard. A ground bed way is easier for a way wiper to keep clean. I'll flake the underside of the components for oil retention...and add some oilers.....especially to the saddle. The saddle will be the worst as it's worn "up hill" .010" front to back across the bed!....I may need to take some of that down with the mill.....or just eat a hearty breakfast!...
I would bet your apprenticship was on a 9" Southbend....a 4 1/2" Southbend by the time it gets to the other side of the pond.... ;D
They made a 8" wood lathe....but I don't think they made any metal lathe smaller than the 9.
It's a very basic lathe....but that's what makes it so good for small work.
I'm going to chase a few things this weekend....if I can't go to the airshow down the road of course!....
:DrinkPint:
Dave
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I found a great article in a old copy of ME by "Little Eatonian" Oct 67' on putting a lever action clamp on a southbend 9 tailstock!.....Super simple and rugged.
I'll redraw it and post it when I build it. It looks too good to pass up...... ::)
Dave
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OK! It got to the grinder safe and sound!.....step 1 complete.
Dave
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"Want to talk to you about your spindle indexer...did you use the expanding arbor type mount?
I'm considereing that but wanted the through spindle.....but I'm still dithering.....must just make a decision!"
I used the expanding arbor which rules out 3C collets. That's a PITA, but I do have a screw on ER chuck. It should be possible to put a collar around the tail at the back of the spindle, just behind the gear which drives the tumbler gears. I like that picture you've got of the old Southbend way with the holes drilled in the bull gear. I was looking at my lathe with that in mind after you posted it. I reckon you could mount a block to hold a plunger ontop of the casting web which holds the backgear cluster. That's if you can bring yourself to do that to your bullgear.
Steve
Steve
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PS - looking forward to seeing some pics of your bed when it gets back all nice and straight
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"Want to talk to you about your spindle indexer...did you use the expanding arbor type mount?
I'm considereing that but wanted the through spindle.....but I'm still dithering.....must just make a decision!"
I used the expanding arbor which rules out 3C collets. That's a PITA, but I do have a screw on ER chuck. It should be possible to put a collar around the tail at the back of the spindle, just behind the gear which drives the tumbler gears. I like that picture you've got of the old Southbend way with the holes drilled in the bull gear. I was looking at my lathe with that in mind after you posted it. I reckon you could mount a block to hold a plunger ontop of the casting web which holds the backgear cluster. That's if you can bring yourself to do that to your bullgear.
Steve
Hey Steve,
Thanks for the interest and support! I'm dithering because I'm trying to optimize making studs and bolts in my mind. I have a lever action collet closer, which would do well with the turret tailstock while making bolts and studs...ect
The question I am asking myself is ....do I make the hex in the same set up, or part off the threaded bolt and blank head and put the head on in a seperate operation.....I'm leaning toward the later as I can stack a pair of saws on an arbor and cut two flats at the same time....there by only having to index the fledgling screw 3 times to cut the hex....but I think it would be a seperate operation...probably on the mill
I've looked at rotobroaching the heads on the lathe.....but in asking KenI about it...and thankyou Ken for the free sharing of that info about rotobroaching!, he thinks it won't give me what I'm looking for as you cant rotobroach deep enough to make the hex the size it needs to be.
So OK... I don't need to index with a lever action closer. I could then just put the index plate on the back of the spindle mounted on the OD...and that would allow the standard collet closer and all my chucks to mount and pass stock through.
Additionally, what will the indexer be doing? Generally, making hexes, squares, and flats, and drilling bolt circles.
Making Hexes, squares and flats is probably the most common. I can do all that with a 12 hole plate.
Bolt circles are much more nebulus but also....2,3,4,6,and 8 are most common...More ....well we're into indexing.
Steam flanges and the like would need 4 and 8. I don't do steam flanges too often, but 8 is pretty common for other things.
With simple indexing, it's very annoying to skip a large number of holes between indexes as it promotes errors.
So....I'm leaning on putting a row of just 24 holes on the bull gear with an index pin to do somewhat "pedestrian" indexing such as the odd hex or square ect. With 6 positions, it' would be 4 holes to index. I use this on my Logan and I've found 24 positions cover my "pedestrian" indexing requirements very well with out being too annoying.
Putting the index on the bull wheel lets me see if from the typical operating position where at the back of the spindle I would have to crane myself around to the back of the spindle....and if it's always there, I don't have to spend time putting it on and taking it off.
So....that's my plan for simple indexing....
For complex indexing....I think a dividing head mounted at the back of the spindle that accomodates my ordinary collet draw bar
I'm thinking about using the dividing head off my F1 to do this....if the through bore is big enough.
Dave
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I guess now the question is do I tear the HS down to put the holes in or do it by indexing the spindle....while assembled....... :thinking:
I think I'll try to do it assembled....
I'm going to make a new bearing clamp bolt to provide the anchor for the index pin.
Dave
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You're getting me interested in doing this now Dave. Pulling the spindle out is pretty painless. Especially ii you can find a bit of pipe to make a puller from, with some threaded rod through the spindle. They come out pretty easy with a hammer though. So personally I'd tear her down.
I'm now thinking about the possibility of drilling a hole through the headstock (in the web that holds the back gear) and putting a bush in it to hold an indexing pin.
BTW if I remember right, the gear in the spindle has 24 teeth
Steve
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Just wanted to say I'm watching. And it's interesting.
But I have to admit to understanding little. I'll get it eventually I suppose.
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You're getting me interested in doing this now Dave. Pulling the spindle out is pretty painless. Especially ii you can find a bit of pipe to make a puller from, with some threaded rod through the spindle. They come out pretty easy with a hammer though. So personally I'd tear her down.
I'm now thinking about the possibility of drilling a hole through the headstock (in the web that holds the back gear) and putting a bush in it to hold an indexing pin.
BTW if I remember right, the gear in the spindle has 24 teeth
Steve
Well! Wouldn't that be convienent!....I think I'll have to pull the gear anyway as I'm going to change to the serpentine belt when it all goes back together.
I am thinking about anchoring the index arm onto the front bearing clamp bolt by making up a special bolt with an extended head....but anchoring it like you said isn't a bad idea either!
I have some time before I have to decide.....I'll let it stew a bit.
Just wanted to say I'm watching. And it's interesting.
But I have to admit to understanding little. I'll get it eventually I suppose.
Zee.... I want to do simple indexing of the spindle on this lathe to cut hexes and squares on parts while still mounted in the chuck. That way the hex or square is dead concentric with the previously turned diameters. This is important on small parts..
Dave
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In thinking about it a bit....I can't imagine anything over 24 divisions on anything that I will be working in a 3C collet.
Just too small.....I know I will be cutting cylinder heads and gears...but I'll probably use a glue chuck mounted in the 3 jaw...so a draw bar or through hole isn't so important. So for more than 24 divisions, I'll use my F1 dividing head and a internal spindle clamp.....like yours Steve....
Dave
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Sounds cool Dave
I was looking at my lathe and thinking about this a little today. One thing about drilling holes in the bullgear; the pin to engage the pulley is somewhat in the way. Can probably squeeze past it, but it's easy to forget just how far that pin comes out when you disengage for backgear.
Steve
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Well....I would guess we would have to leave the pin in for indexing.....more information to think about.
Dave
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Looked at it Steve.......I think I have a way to do it.......
More later.
Dave
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Alright...for those of you who don't own a SB....here's the area Steve and I are talking about.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-23_08-18-14_913_zps2af109bb.jpg)
You see the bull gear, the large pin and the gear guard. Also look at the bearing clamp bolt in the forground...its a 3/8-16 x 1.25 Socket head cap screw
Here's what I'm thinking.....Make a new custom bolt.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-23_12-20-35_392_zps29143c1c.jpg)
The lower part of the bolt is the same, but extend the head up and then cut a standard hex on the end. This post will now be the anchor for a index pin block.
Dave
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OK Here's the plan....
the post
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-23_14-49-27_981_zpsd373881a.jpg)
and the index pin block
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-23_14-48-59_332_zpsd26b78dc.jpg)
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Do I spy coffee stains on your drawings Dave :LittleDevil:, or is it just oil?
One of the advantages of the white boards I use to knock up designs in the workshop is they are immune to coffee.
Jo
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One of the advantages of the white boards I use to knock up designs in the workshop is they are immune to coffee.
And you can use your phone or camera to keep a record.
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Do I spy coffee stains on your drawings Dave :LittleDevil:, or is it just oil?
One of the advantages of the white boards I use to knock up designs in the workshop is they are immune to coffee.
Jo
One of the advantages of the white boards I use to knock up designs in the workshop is they are immune to coffee.
And you can use your phone or camera to keep a record.
Well.......1 out of 2 isn't bad!........ :ROFL: :ROFL:
-
i just had one of those why didn't i think of that moments :facepalm: and i have zee to thank for that :NotWorthy:..................do a drawing and then take a picture of it for future reference. i lose my drawings all the time in the shop so now i will photograph them from now on.
thanks carl :DrinkPint:
chuck
-
I like it Dave
Steve
-
Thanks Steve.......I'll make one up. I think I'll wait to cut the hole circle until I can scribe the location using the indexer block bushing to hold a 1/4" diameter scribe that clears the pin...
Dave
-
Do I spy coffee stains on your drawings Dave :LittleDevil:, or is it just oil?
One of the advantages of the white boards I use to knock up designs in the workshop is they are immune to coffee.
Jo
But what would I put my coffee on?
-
Cool Dave - if it works out good I may have to follow your lead
Steve
-
Ordered the belt today. I'll get cracking on the division block and post tonight. I can get that done in the next couple of days, I can get the HS all back together and ready for when the bed gets back. Should be done sometime this week ....so maybe a couple of weeks before it gets back.
I also need to mount and wire the motor. I'll start out with the standard single phase system.....I'll wait till Christmas and the lathe being done to get a VFD.
Dave
-
OK....I made the post tonight.....pretty easy. I even had some .563 TGP stock so I used it
The hex is 1/2" and it cleaned up real nice on the Mill. I had the dividing head already set up from the recent gear making exercise.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-24_21-07-14_477.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-24_21-08-39_887.jpg)
Take the cap screw out and turn this one in. Done
I left the shaft length at 1.812" instead of 1 3/4" on the sketch....I figuire I can trim it back later. Next the index pin block.
Dave
-
DooooooH! :facepalm:
Steve you genius you......I did count the spindle gear teeth. 24! Why the hell did I miss this!
So duh! Move the post to the rear bearing instead of the front bearing, redesign the index block to index off the gear and I'm "IN LIKE FLYNN!" I can simple index with what ever I want on the spindle, and it mounts up in minutes!
I'll work on that tomorrow! :pinkelephant: :whoohoo: :DrinkPint:
Dave
-
i just had one of those why didn't i think of that moments :facepalm: and i have zee to thank for that :NotWorthy:..................do a drawing and then take a picture of it for future reference. i lose my drawings all the time in the shop so now i will photograph them from now on.
thanks carl :DrinkPint:
chuck
See Carl you re not just a pretty face after all :Jester:
Pete
-
Hey Dave, you mentioned using a poly-v (serpentine) belt, just wondered if you had seen 'Hot-Rodding a 9" SB Lathe' by Peter Verbree (HSM July/Aug 2006). It's on my to-do list for when I 'rebuild' my lathe (well, just a cleanup and felt replacement ::) ).
Great job on the lathe, you're making me jealous. :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:
Cheers
Jeff
-
That sounds alot easier Dave and no need to do any modifications either.
Jeff, I believe alot of people just run those poly-V belts straight on the old flat belt pulleys, with the V's against the flat pulley surface. Apparently it works well.
Steve
-
Hey Guys,
Steve is correct.....the V belt on the motor is how the lathe was set up at the factory while the PolyV belt on the flat belt pullies is a very common upgrade....It doesn't need any modifications what so ever...the polyV grips the flat pulley just fine.
IIRC, Pete made new poly V belt pullies with a wider range of speed.....I'll be leaving mine be.
Steve, I'm digging this indexing approuch....I'll draw something up today. Almost done with the lever action TS clamp....I think you might like that mod too.
Dave
-
Never posted this here....but
HS Before.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7230097-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7230098-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7310121-1.jpg)
HS After including new wicks and felts.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8070140-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8070139-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8130143-1.jpg)
-
Gearbox before...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8180144-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8180145-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8200148-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P8200150-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/PB250020-1.jpg)
Gear box after a new shaft and some new bearings, paint and the tag restored and including new wicks.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-01-01_18-52-38_982.jpg)
-
The Apron was a mess....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-01-27_22-32-04_83.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-01-27_22-32-10_271.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-01-28_17-56-24_505.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-01-28_18-01-36_582.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-04_17-48-06_472.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-04_17-48-06_472.jpg)
It needed new half nuts, and the housing for the worm gear was worn .06! I bored it oversize and made a bush that accomodated a standard Southbend Wick. There was a bit of tricky set up to bore it.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-08_11-54-12_857.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-11_13-04-34_465.jpg)
Apron After.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-11_19-36-36_939.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-02-11_19-37-31_399.jpg)
Dave
-
Thanks for the pics!
It's looking good! Looking forward to pic of the whole thing done.
-
Almost done with the lever action TS clamp....I think you might like that mod too.
I think you're correct :ThumbsUp:
Steve
-
He's grinding it today....looks like at least .006" is coming off, and the "V"s are stepped....meaning some are higher than others.....this may be why the saddle goes up hill a bit.......we'll see.
Dave
-
Looks like .005" The gib way underneath in the back was .003" out of parallel....in general...he wasn't impressed with the machining of the bed....glad I did this.
He should be done by tomorrow...I'll need to pay him and provide for transportation....
Next week I'll be scraping I think.....this week and weekend....get caught up on the other bits!
Dave
-
Dave it looks like you have redone every inch of this lathe. I know the work it takes to do all of this and I hope the bed grind goes OK , because I know I would be peeded off if it didn't. Good luck pal hope it all goes well for you.
Don
-
Dave it looks like you have redone every inch of this lathe. I know the work it takes to do all of this and I hope the bed grind goes OK , because I know I would be peeded off if it didn't. Good luck pal hope it all goes well for you.
Don
Oh an AMEN to that brother! He knows what I want.....guess we'll just have to have some faith....
Dave
-
Tailstock!
I got to the tailstock and found the base was worn "rocking chair" which is pretty common....that condition makes it very difficult to determin how much wear you really have in the base. So I scraped it flat to the bed and then checked it.
It was .018" LOW!......Wow!
OK...I could shim it...or I could scrape the Headstock to lower it to the Tailstock height....neither of these really appealed to me....so I said the hell with it....and made a new base!
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7150063.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7150066.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7150067.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7160071.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7160072.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7160076.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7170081.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7170083.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7170085.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7170087.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7230094.jpg)
Next is the scraping I've completed so far...
-
I made a T slotted cross slide for this lathe. I got the casting from Andy at Metal Lathe Accessories
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/
I machined it and scraped it in. Here's some of the blow by blow.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P5070127-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P5070129-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P5070130-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P5140120-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P5280135-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-05-23_20-46-51_308.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/PB250006-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-03-04_08-03-01_14.jpg)
-
Next I scraped everything above the slide. Starting with the base of the compound using the cross slide as a reference....it marked up well.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-03-04_08-00-05_898.jpg)
Then the flatways of the compound base after I did the bottom of the compound top slide.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-03-04_07-48-50_755.jpg)
Then the top of the compound not quite done in this photo...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-03-04_06-37-28_484.jpg)
So that parts are done.....I need to scrape the bottom and top of the TS base. It's about .020" high at the moment.
I had already scraped the top of the saddle...so it's good. We're getting there.
Dave
-
Man, you're not fooling around with this one, eh Dave?
Some serious machining and scraping going on there. Nice work! She'll be better than new.
-
Thanks Kevin! I just got word the bed is done and packed up
He said it was a mess. Not straight and not flat. The outside way in front of the Headstock was wore .007"
He told me everything was within .0004" on straightness and parallelism now full length (54") which for a lathe is pretty good!
Dave
-
I just got word the bed is done and packed up
He said it was a mess. Not straight and not flat. The outside way in front of the Headstock was wore .007"
What did you expect for a free lathe ;D? At the end of all this your are going to have a lathe which is capable of accuracies that some would die for :ThumbsUp:.
Jo
-
What he meant Jo...was that the bed wasn't straight to begin with....from the factory!....in 51'......
Dave
-
At least the bed is very well seasoned by now Dave ;D - good going so far; I'm looking forward to when you get the bed back :ThumbsUp:
Kind regards, Arnold
-
The trucker says they can pick it up today!......I haven't even paid for it yet! :pinkelephant:
Dave
-
Dave
I guess you are really looking forward to get the bed back and finish it off. I guess you are now starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Vince
-
Dave
I guess you are really looking forward to get the bed back and finish it off. I guess you are now starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Vince
YUP!
-
East bound and Down!
COULD be here on Friday!
Dave
-
Cool - all action soon enough :cheers:
Steve
-
COULD be here on Friday!
Dave
Looks like the perfect excuse for Fish and Chips :cheers:
1. Friday
2. Toooooo much excitement to want to cook.
Best Regards
Bob
-
OH man I got work to do!
Tailstock mods Lever action lock
Saddle mods....adding gits oilers and underside oil grooves a la Paula over at PM
Put the belt in...I got it today. ....I suppose that can wait
Need to mount the motor...but that is just 4 bolts.
Mount the bed feet
Mount the bed to the bench and level
Busy Busy Busy!
Did I mention I have to work .....like work work......on Saturday?...... :Mad: :Mad: :cussing:
Be patient guys.........
Dave
-
Here's what Paula did....her lathe is beautiful!
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/1947-model-9a-128005/index2.html
page 2
-
Have you got the red carpet ready for the arrival? ;D
I am sure that you should be able to find a few minuites from when she arrives :LickLips: to when you get forced to go back to work :hellno:.
Jo
-
Have you got the red carpet ready for the arrival? ;D
I am sure that you should be able to find a few minuites from when she arrives :LickLips: to when you get forced to go back to work :hellno:.
Jo
Still....it's cutting into my shop time.....not good
I'll be there late tonight too......
Dave
-
Still....it's cutting into my shop time.....not good
I'll be there late tonight too......
Dave
You cannot honestly say that the excitement is not building every minute that you are having to wait for it to arrive can you? There is no rush, as they say "the memory of poor quality lasts far beyond the pleasure of the completion".
Jo
-
Oh I know Jo....I just want to get on with it!...a year and a half is long enough....I created a plan...and I'm acting on the plan...I'd just rather burn the calories pushing a scraper blade instead of pushing pixels and hanging machine panels for "the man" to the wee hours....trust me I know how work is in front of me....and agreed....I need to do it right....but to finish I first need to Start!
:cheers:
Dave
-
One thing I can say about your efforts Dave is, you are persistent and that's what it takes for a quality job. After seeing your launch and the 13 years you put into it, I have no doubt the lathe will Be done correctly.
Don
-
Thanks Don! :NotWorthy:
Dave
-
Well, the trucker screwed up. The bed is still on the trucking terminal in Rockford waiting for me to pick it up... :slap:
Looks like Monday........I got plenty to do anyway....
Dave
-
How frustrating :facepalm: I hate it when that happens.
Jo
-
Just as well...its pouring rain....TS clamp then!
Steve, I'll post the drawings of the clamp when I know it all works right...
Dave
-
A little more history....
The tailstock was found to be pointing down by .004" over the length of the extended barrel. I investigated what was the cause and came to the conclusion that the TS had been dropped at some point in its life. The tilt was a result of a large raised "ding" at the back of the Tailstock.
So as not to lower the TS anymore, I concentrated on lowering on the back near the damaged area and leaving the front alone
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7120030-1.jpg)
after some scraping cycles......
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7120046-1.jpg)
When I was done...I found I had only .0002" or so...close enough for now.
Dave
-
0.0002
It's these kinds of posts that make me wonder how I can ever achieve this kind of skill.
Okay okay...not really.
It's more like setting a bar towards which I work.
I'm almost at 0.001. Almost. ;D
Probably lying to myself but I always believe that speaker.
Looking forward to your excitement when you get the bed back.
-
Honestly Zee.....its not that hard. You have to think while you do it....but you're more than capable.
Scraping is not the same as running a lathe or a mill. It's slow.....which is good. .0002" is a roughing pass!....
It goes slower than you think...but its very control-able because of it. I've said it before...you should find a piece of iron and give it a go. You will be amazed. Being able to measure it is key. You can't measure .0002" with a dial caliper. You need a tenths indicator and a good stand and a plate you can trust.
Remember....you can make anything you can measure. ....YES YOU CAN..
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7120049-1.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P7120048-1.jpg)
-
So I guess you've still got to scrape the tailstock base in when you get the bed back?
Re. the lever for the tailstock. I'd suggest making the eccentric shaft a nice and large diameter. If the diameter isn't big enough it will flex and then it won't come to a firm stop, which it a PINTA.
Anyway's it's going to be a real beaut Dave! You'll be churning out screws before you know it :ThumbsUp:
Steve
-
Your right Steve, the picture shows teh tailstock body.. The new base is about .020 high still.
The shaft on the lever lock is going to be 7/16" or .4375" with a .811" diameter cam. It will require a hole through the web of the tailstock body and the lever is outboard towards the back
Dave
-
Had a good session in the shop tonight.
Here's the basic design for the Tailstock lever lock....it's a variation on a design I found in ME from way back. I redesigned it to simplify things a bit.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_12-14-38_243.jpg)
I made the L bracket first from a piece of 1/4" angle I had. I've left it square until everything is done and then I'll radius it.
Once I made the bracket, I needed to mill a flat on the TS body....holding this thing while I took a cut was a trip...and it's not the greatest set up....but I went slow and got it done.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_18-44-18_808.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_18-49-56_571.jpg)
I then bolted the bracket in with 1 bolt and cross drilled the bracket and the TS housing in 1 go stepping up the diameter until I got to .562". Now the hole is clear through and lined up.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_19-35-42_91.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_19-40-42_932.jpg)
Once I got that done I made a bearing bushing from some brass. The bore is .438 and the large OD is .75 while the stepped shoulders are .563.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_20-03-49_62.jpg)
Here it is put together with the bracket. I later loctited the bushing to the brack. but NOT THE HOUSING!!!! That way its easy to remove the bushing in 20 years to replace it once it's worn out...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_20-04-11_741.jpg)
Now the mounting bolts
I mounted the assembly back into the housing and mounted it up side down and drilled tap drill for 1/4-20.
Then I took it apart again and drilled the bracket for a clearance hole, and tapped the housing 1/4-20.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_21-06-33_681.jpg)
Now I can put it all back together. Next is the eccentric shaft and the eyebolt, and I'm there.....oh and some repainting....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_21-12-49_231.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-09-29_21-12-56_417.jpg)
I'll round the square corners on that bracket to a .5" radius with angles down to the base of the bracket....
Dave
-
Looking good :ThumbsUp:. I did the same with my Prazimat when I first got her, it made a world of difference, as did the lever feed.
I hope you are going to fit the lever with a nice big knob 8).
Speaking of knobs: Over the years I found that chuck keys started digging in to my hands and I decided to fit knobs to both ends of the handles on all my chuck keys. Problem solved, no more sore hands ;)
Jo
-
Looks great Dave. That's so much better than the original arrangement
Steve
-
Thanks guys and gals. I think it'll be alright. Today I'll try to get the shaft/eccentric done and maybe drill the saddle for the gits oilers. I also have to re-commission the work station as the hard drive blew up and had to be replaced......gotta start from scratch! :killcomputer: :killcomputer: :zap: ::)
Dave
-
Got the locking cam shaft done. Trimming the bracket. I need to make the eyebolt. I'll make up a spreadsheet to cut the ball.
Dave
-
The bed is still on the trucking terminal in Rockford waiting for me to pick it up... Looks like Monday
Not long to wait now :ThumbsUp:
Jo
-
Not long to wait now Dave, you still have a lot to do yet. Now I am getting excited to see it all assemblied and turning. Once you get it back and assemblied, PM me with your address I have something to send you for your Southbend lathe. You will like it and enjoy it I promise.
Don
-
Nice one Don. Nothing like a bit of extra
pressure motivation eh Dave?
-
Not long to wait now Dave, you still have a lot to do yet. Now I am getting excited to see it all assemblied and turning. Once you get it back and assemblied, PM me with your address I have something to send you for your Southbend lathe. You will like it and enjoy it I promise.
Don
OK......whatcha got in mind Don....? :)
Dave
-
OK......whatcha got in mind Don....? :)
Dave
[/quote]
Now if I told you, it would not make you anxious would it? Just trust me. :LittleAngel:
Don
-
Alrighty then.....
-
Double dang it! It didn't get there till the afternoon....I have to wait till morning to pick up...
Ordered the gits oilers for the saddle and the ball handle for the TS lever lock
Did some more work on the bracket to radius it over...
Looks good....print calls for .025 eccentricity on the cam....gotta wonder if that is enough...guess we'll see if I need to make another one...
Dave
-
Double dang it! It didn't get there till the afternoon....I have to wait till morning to pick up...
I would have thought that you would have been there camping outside the gates first thing Monday morning just daring anyone to open up and not let you in first ;D. Next they will come up with that old chestnut about not being able to find the paperwork ::).
Jo
-
NOPE I got the paperwork... 8)
Dave
-
NOPE I got the paperwork... 8)
Dave
But have you got the bed?
Jo
-
Faith Jo....ya gotta have faith...
My girl Patty in the office is working the problem...and she hasn't lied to me a yet....
Dave
-
Hey Guys and Gals!
OK...the bed is Home! :pinkelephant: :DrinkPint:
I've got to take it out of the crate....and wash it down....Not much drama...though the crate sustained some damage on the way back.....I opened it at the truck depot and the bed appears to be just fine. I wrapped the closed up crate in a tarp and took her home in the rain...but the crate is dry...and in the shop!
Now for the clean up!.......yea yea yea....I'll take pictures! ;D
Dave
-
Damn Sexy
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-02_20-15-18_791.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-02_20-15-24_915.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-02_20-15-36_390.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-02_20-15-47_928.jpg)
YES I oiled it well with way oil before I said good night.... :pinkelephant: :whoohoo: :whoohoo:
Im just a bit chuffed I think....... ;D
Dave
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Oh - looks shiny, looks straight. What more could you want? Better start sharpening your scrapper :o
:cheers:
Steve
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YUP! Got some fresh blades all set.
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Congrats Dave. Glad to see it home again.
I guess it would be wrong for me to say "So get busy!".
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Your right Zee....only thing stopping me now is time and commitments.
More this week.
Dave
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My bed is back,
Looks nice and straight,
Now what I need's, some oil tonight,
Tomorrow scrape.
Eat your heart out Byron :slap:
Best Regards
Bob
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Great Dave, it looks like it all went well. A lot of work still to come to completion. Good luck pal, your efforts will soon pay off.
Don
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Glad to see it home safe. Looks great. Thanks for letting us share the excitement.
Mike O
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Great news :pinkelephant:. We are all looking forward to seeing you put her back together.
Jo
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Thanks guys and gals!
I can't wait to get back into it!......lots to do!
Dave
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My bed is back,
Looks nice and straight,
Now what I need's, some oil tonight,
Tomorrow scrape.
Eat your heart out Byron :slap:
Best Regards
Bob
My bed is back,
Don da da da
Looks nice and straight,
Don da da da
Now what I need's, some oil tonight,
Don da da da
tommorrow I scrape..
........I know cheap childish and immature...so whats your point.....Jerry your on bass!
-
BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom
BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom
BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom
BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom
BOOM boom BOOM boom BOOM boom
-
Still gotta do some verification.....but it looks like he knows what he's doing..
Dave
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Don-da da-da
Pretty soon your hands will be sore...
...and your back will ache
Don-da da-da
While starin' at all those little blue dots...
keep thinkin' 'bout all those parts you'll make!
Don-da da-da
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Oh man....The "Scrapin blues"!......you guys don't need much encouragment do ya! :ROFL:
Got a care package from McMaster Carr....gits oilers for the apron and the ball handle for the TS clamp.
Long weekend coming....I'm all over it !
Dave
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Long weekend coming....
I'll edit that for you Dave...
"Too short a weekend coming..." ;D
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Sorry Dave its been too long
:pics:
we need pictures: the delivery, unwrapping, and the :Love: , Please no picture of drooling on the bed is not good for it and we promise to do the drooling for you ;D.
Jo
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Sorry Dave its been too long
:pics:
we need pictures: the delivery, unwrapping, and the :Love: , Please no picture of drooling on the bed is not good for it and we promise to do the drooling for you ;D.
Jo
Hey hey hey....go back a couple of pages....pictures of the unwrappped Bed in all its splender....post 147!
Dave
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:thinking: I read those threads but the pictures didn't come up. Still want more, what have you been doing for 24hours?
Jo
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:thinking: I read those threads but the pictures didn't come up. Still want more, what have you been doing for 24hours?
Jo
.....keeping you in suspense..... 8)
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Dave it not the suspense, some much as getting a fix from your progress. We all need that fix to move on till tomorrow. So as you know, photos help to cure the crave.
Don
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Actually nothing has happened since it came home, My Sister had surgery recently, and I went to visit and got into a good jaw session.
Lot's of good fix material this weekend though.....hang tough ....we're getting there....I'll try to work on the TS clamp stuff tonight if possible.
Yes I'll take pictures..... ;D
Dave
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.....keeping you in suspense..... (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Sadist... ;D
I'm seriously looking forward to the rest of the work on the lathe Dave :ThumbsUp:
Kind regards, Arnold
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.....keeping you in suspense..... (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Sadist... ;D
I'm seriously looking forward to the rest of the work on the lathe Dave :ThumbsUp:
Kind regards, Arnold
:ROFL: Sadist!....oh brother your talking to a guy who removes metal with a scraper...and LIKES it!....you HAVE to be a Sadist! :LittleDevil:
Let me get some grocery shopping done for Mama....and I'll see if I can steel some time in the shop tonight....
Dave
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OK...home with the groceries!.....I'm DEAD!
Iam writing a spreadsheet to turn a ball.....about all I got left
I went out to the shop for a few minutes....and I put the TS base on the clean bed.....wiped the oil off with it....good sign!
OK....got a master straight edge, cleaned the edge and a section of the front way. sprayed just a hint of WD40...and wrung the straight edge down on the way.....it sucked right in and took two hands to take it off!.....More good signs!
All oiled up and waiting for this weekend!
Dave
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OK Tonight a pint is in order....I'll do some cleaning in the shop
Tomorrow....I clean some more...and I put the bed feet on, flip her over and get her mounted bolted down to the bed.....no cracks Jo!
I can then level things up and get to work. I'm itching to lay put the saddle down on her to see how much work I have to do.
I have to match the V's while not shifting the apron side of the saddle too much or I'll have leadscrew alignment problems. UP and DOWN is not so bad as I can shim the gearbox and leadscrew hanger down to accomodate the ground bed, but front to back is much more difficult to deal with so here's the plan
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/Lathedrawing.jpg)
The instructions given for the grind was to grind "straight down" and take everything down to the same level. Having said that,
Datum C and Surface D are the key datums to keep in mind while I scrape this ....I want the saddle to be anchored with respect to that datam and surface. the far surface will be scraped more as I measure far more wear on the front side than the back...so more to come off the back.
I will need to confirm this as the V's were not machined correctly at the factory 61 years ago...so the tilt in the saddle may now not be so pronounced. I'll need to check that.
Hopefully,,,,things won't go too pear shaped with the leadscrew location.
Dave
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Looks like you have been doing you studies Dave. Sounds like a good approach to me. A lot of wok ahead so good luck this weekend.
Don
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Best of luck Dave. Keep those pictures coming.
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Tomorrow....I clean some more...and I put the bed feet on, flip her over and get her mounted bolted down to the bed.....no cracks Jo!
I can then level things up and get to work. I'm itching to lay put the saddle down on her to see how much work I have to do.
:LittleDevil:
Jo
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Good point Jo :stir:
it's all happening now
Steve
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Started scraping tonight
Got the bed mounted and leveled in both directions.
I had to recalibrate my precision level. Man these things are simple...should just get the precision vial and build one!
To calibrate you adjust the vial holder so that the level reads the same with the level turned either way. That means you don't need a level surface to calibrate it
I put my matched V blocks on the saddle ways and found that they are not coplainer, thought they are parallel. The outboard V is higher than the inboard V next to the apron
I decided to scrape the sadle level to the leveling surface ( flat top of the V ways) anyway.
I got started and brought the saddle down from .008" up hill to .004 and .003 longitudinal to .0015. The saddle is sitting on all four wings now as before it was only sitting on 3......meaning 3 out of 4 legs were touching and it was rocking.....not good for a saddle!
I'll bring it to within a couple of thou and stop there temporarily. Then I sweep in the HS...using my precision spindle test bar as a reference with respect to the ways and the saddle. Spindle pointing toward the operator slightly.
From there, I'll check the squareness of the saddle to the spindle axis using a 4 jaw with mounted straight edge. To do that I'll sweep in the straight edge using the saddle only. Then I'll rotate the spindle 180 degrees and measure the difference in coplanarity. The error is diplayed doubled on the indicator. I'll need to be sure that I am cutting concave by about .0005 in 12 inches. I'll adjust the squareness by scraping the V ways accordingly and finish off the saddle, correcting any squareness and parallelism issues while I'am at it.
Then the Tailstock.
Then the turret tailstock....and the steadies.
From there I'll clean up the paint ....and finish off the bench storage solutions and paint the bench along with some tool storage projects.
Dave
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Well having the rear V way higher than the front is not ideal. Technically, they should be co planer....in the same plane as the leveling surfaces which is surface A in the sketch above. The grinder should have taken another .003 off the rear V.
Having said that....it was like that to begin with....and he brought it down from about .007" higher!
So although not perfect...its way better than it was!
So I'm going to scrape the saddle level in both planes with the leveling surfaces of the lathe. I'll do this by cutting the rear V way of the saddle deeper and rotate about the front way.
In the end, the top surface of the cross slide will be level in both planes when the lathe is level.
Dave
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Had another session in the shop....I have the front to back at about .0015....left to right about .001....and squareness to the ways about +.001 over 6"....( Cutting concave)......The roughing is over for the most part....I need to cut the hill down some more...but not much
The squareness spec I'll complete once the HS is mounted....it's coming...the saddle is the most intensive as I have to maintain parallelism in two planes and squareness in the third......The saddle is VERY sensitive to changes in squareness...a light scrape causes a big movement!
Where it seems like its taking for ever to take down the hill!
Right now my arms and feet hurt....so I'm taking a break...
Dave
PS... the rear way is about .002" higher than the front way...not .003".....my bad.
-
.The saddle is VERY sensitive to changes in squareness...a light scrape causes a big movement!
Where it seems like its taking for ever to take down the hill!
Right now my arms and feet hurt....so I'm taking a break...
Still no pictures :disappointed: How do we even know that anything is actually happening? :noidea: Maybe if we saw photo's of your blisters we might believe you :LittleDevil:
Jo
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Dave I would give it rest if it were me, mistakes are make when tiredness sets in. You have come this far and you persistence has payed off, so easy big fellow. Tomorrow is another day and next week is another week. It will still be there.
Don
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OK here's some pictures.....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-07-29_234.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-09-43_472.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-10-47_791.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-11-30_206.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-11-56_863.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-12-14_109.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-14-48_698.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-14-53_192.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-14-59_158.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-16-14_321.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_15-17-33_451.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_11-45-24_901.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-08_11-46-14_771.jpg)
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The first couple of pictures show the level within 1 devision with a .0015" shim. The next one ...out of focus...sorry.. shows the level within 1 division with a .001" shim.
The last couple show the precision square mounted on the saddle against some .3750 gage pins. In this photo....the saddle is out about .0027" /6" Concave...too much of a good thing! It's now .001"/6". It needs to be .0005"/6"
To "rotate" the saddle is tricky. You scrape the 4 pads opposite ( of the 8 total). The result is the saddle rotates on the ways.
It's VERY sensitive! I figuired .0027 was a lot so I did a double cut on the 4 pads...it went to .002"/6 in the other direction! I eased it back and it's now .001"/6" in the good direction...I'll leave it be while I level the other two axes, and get the bearing quality I want.
Does that count Jo? :LittleDevil:
Dave
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Oh and I showed the level in the same position but rotated 180. It shows the same reading, which means the level is "CALIBRATED" .0005"/10.
Dave
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Yep,
Now you will have to explain this scraping lark to those of us who have not done (or read about) it before. I am intrigued with what the bottle of ink (?) and a roller is for. I could guess :noidea: looking at the lathe ways, but you don't seem to have got any on your hands or under your finger nails.
Jo
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Let my son finish his home wotk, and ill explain. Too much like work on the Droid.
Dave
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(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Others/ears-049.gif)
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Ok....I'll explain using one of my previous posts, as the subject is easier to understand with something flat.
First just a bit of history.....google is your friend...if you want to really get into it.
Whitworth was building machines! (If you don't know Whitworth Jo...we're going to have to talk) One of the time consuming aspects of building these machines was fitting.
The standard way of fitting at the time was to put some emery on two parts to be fitted and rub them together. It worked in a fashion...but Whitworth wasn't satisfied...it was a very non deterministic process...you didn't really know how long it was going to take..or which of the two parts the material was coming off from....in the end they slide together just fine...but they didn't necessarily line up with anything else...which made fitting the next part more troublesome.
He theorized, that if the material could be removed mechanically just from where it was needed , a more deterministic process could be realized..
Now there are debates as to who really invented the scraping process....Whitworth or one of his mechanics...I can't remember which....google is your friend here too.
What's flat. Flatness of a surface is defined as the difference between the highest point and the lowest point on that surface. At these points, a flat plane is placed and everything on that surface resides and is bracketed by those two planes.
Imagine a part on your compound...say the valve seats. They are flat!....well....not really flat..if you look at them now they look great and function properly....but if you look at them under a microscope the surface will probably look like the Himalayas!
Say you were to take those valve surfaces and place them on a surface plate of good quality ( lets just say is perfectly flat)
Only The peaks of the moutains would be sitting on the surface plate. Got that picture in your mind? Good!
NOW what if you were to take a marking medium....like an ink or paint, and coat the surface of the plate with a very thin coat...say maybe 1/20000" thick. Then say you took your valve plate and rubbed in on the perfectly flat and coated surface plate.
When you rub the valve plate back and forth a little and then look at the surface, you will see that only the high spots picked up any ink, whild the low spots remain bare. If you then took a tool and "scraped" the tops of those high points off, it would make the surface a little flatter....your cutting off the tops of the mountains. OK you with me so far?
Here's a picture of a angle plate I bought on ebay.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/Angleplate.jpg)
It stated it was "precision ground"! Wonderful! But how good is precision ground?.....and to what "precision"?
To find out, I coated my surface plate with marking medium....this particular medium is water based so it washes off your hands with soap and water....I wish I could say it came out of my clothes that easily!
I then took the large surface of the angle plate and marked it up on the plate with a gentle rub.....here's the result.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/2012-06-14_19-00-38_259.jpg)
WOW! It's only touching on the parts that are red....so much for precision!
NOW ....using my surface plate as a reference....and by successive iterative cuts with the scraper, I took the moutain tops or high points off. Here's the surface after about 20 passes or cycles.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/2012-06-14_19-52-24_26.jpg)
You'll notice that the surface is "filling in" and there is more bearing....see how it it is filling in from right to left. The process of filling in is called "progression of bearing"....and it can go well or it can be really ugly....you have to pay attention to what the surface is telling you, and more importantly, cross check your interpretation with another check.
Here's the surface after a few more passes.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/2012-06-14_21-32-36_211.jpg)
Ahhh much better! The bearing has "carried" across the part. Now if this was a gage, I would refine this surface with short strokes of the scraper...getting even shorter as the bearing gets better and better....40 points /square inch is a very good gage surface...10 points is a good surface for a non moving fixture such as this.
Here's the finished product..
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/2012-06-14_21-43-39_557.jpg)
Now there are pitfalls to watch out for! parts that have surfaces that are high in the middle, can show false bearing....there are tests that can be performed to measure and determine that.....but that's another night....
Dave
PS......On edit.....it was Maudsley...not Whitworth....got to check my memory before I post....
Dave
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Here is a straight edge reference I made to scrape in another angle reference...It's pushing what I can do with the process.
I haven't counted the spots per square....but it's not bad
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/tooling/P7130057.jpg)
Dave
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OK , so what does any of this have to do with the photo's of my lathe? You have to ask the question. What is the reference?
In this case, it's the bed itself. I got the bed ground to make it flat and straight. Now I'm using the bed as the reference to determine that it's components line up appropriately with respect to each other. As a informational reference, I am using the famous book by Connelly called "Machine Tool Reconditioning" which outlines the target tolerances for these alignments.
Great source of information.....and a great cure for Insomnia!....it's a bit "dry"....like the Sahara.
If you want to persue this more...I would recommend various Youtube video's on Precision Scraping, and this shop manual.
http://www.machinerepair.com/Book.html
Good book and video on the basics....by a guy who knows. Well worth the purchase price.
Regards,
Dave
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I'm watching mate..............very nice :NotWorthy:
Best Regards
Bob
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You gotta love your tool to go through that much work to get it right.
Very interesting Dave.
-
Wow, that's going to be too nice to use!
I've been trying to follow the scraping series in one of the magazines but haven't had the time to really sit down and soak it in.
I remember watching in awe, as an apprentice, when an old timer overhauled a Bridgeport...
Thanks for showing it all Dave.
-
You just got to love it :Love:
Don
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I really should check my memory before I post
Maudsley....not Whitworth.....Whitworth came later.
Dave
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And one last distraction...the angle plate....I needed to take about.005" off to flatten it out....poor grinding job actually. A good precision grinding job will leave it flat to .0002" or better....
Dave
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Ta,
Maybe that is where I go wrong: When I use engineers blue I always assumed that when I rub two parts together the high points are clear and the low points have all the blue all over them :toilet_claw:.
So next dumb question: what tool are you using and is there any tricks about sharpening them/using them.
Jo
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Ta,
Maybe that is where I go wrong: When I use engineers blue I always assumed that when I rub two parts together the high points are clear and the low points have all the blue all over them :toilet_claw: .
So next dumb question: what tool are you using and is there any tricks about sharpening them/using them.
Jo
Not so dumb Jo......depends which bit you use as the reference. i.e. if you blue the bit you want to work on the high spots are clear, if you blue the reference the high spots on the workpiece are blue.
e.g.your making a male morse taper to fit a bought socket. When your close blue the bit in the lathe then offer up the socket the high end of the morse madrel in the lathe will be clear. An added bonus is you finger doesn't get stuck in the hole. :ROFL:
If you want to save money, the best scrapers (IMHO), ( flat and triangular), can be easily made from old files. The only one it really pays to pay for is a bearing scraper.
Best Regards
Bob
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Great stuff Dave. You'll have it all done in no time at this rate
Steve
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I use a Anderson Scraper Jo. I'll take a picture of the different blades and what they do...in a bit.
Dave
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Here's a picture of my Anderson....nothing spectacular...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-09_07-52-27_610.jpg)
Some of my blades.....the one on the upper right is HSS and has a fairly small radius to it. That works for finish scraping as I can cut the point and only the point....It bump flakes well too.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-09_07-53-06_600.jpg)
The bottom one is a carbide blade with a large radius on it...almost no radius and I use it on flat, non moving surfaces. I like the resulting finish too.
How I grip the handle....there are other ways.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-09_07-53-52_23.jpg)
There are different ways to mark up the part. I usually put the marking medium on the reference surface and mark the piece. Another way is to put the medium on the piece and rub off the marking medium on the reference. Still another way is to use two different colors of medium, one on the part, and one on the reference.....which gives very high contrast.
It sounds like your using way too much medium A dap will do ya. I don't particularly like "High Spot Blue" as it gets everywhere and will only wear off your hands. I would use the product I've been using by E.S. Dyjak. Cleans up easy.
I put the medium down in a small drop and then roll it out using a rubber roller called a Brayer. It is typically used with printing presses, and you can get them in the craft stores.
For roughing in, I PUT IT ON! the angle plate above is a classic example. But for finish scraping, and as the bearing gets better and better, you put it on thinner and thinner. I can still see the granite on my surface plate through the marking medium quite clearly if I'm finish scraping. Looking at the mark up in low angle light lets you see it easier.
For roughing, you work areas. You cut past what is marked and then again across that because you know its all high. Once the bearing carries....you back way off and just cut the bearing points. Rough scraping versus finish scraping.
Here's a picture of bearing points....they look like little bulls eyes.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-05-07_20-46-13_579.jpg)
The high silver spots are at the center of the bullseye, the peak of the mountains....while the slopes are in red. At this point you use the scraper like an eraser, and just cut the top off the mountain. Having a smaller radius on the blade helps here.
You can also affect a change in parallelism and squareness with a scraper. That will become evident as I progress with the lathe.
Dave
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As for sharpening, I use a diamond file. The tool needs to have a negative rake. I cut it to about 7 degrees from both sides which leaves a crown in the middle of the blade. Knock the extreme corners off the blade or you will gouge the work.
Dave
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Here's a picture of my Anderson....nothing spectacular...
My thats a big one you have got (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Others/blah-blah-072.gif). My M&W scrapers are about the size of a 8 inch file with a normal shape handle. No wonder I can't do much with them.
The shape of the end of tool: I get the curve/ flat end. Would I be right if I assumed they faced at 90 degrees and sharp? (You beat me to it your post crossed mine ;))
Jo
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tool chest to be mounted on post stand....on the bench for collets and tools....got a good deal on it.....and it's not cheap CH junk but just real old
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/toolchest1.jpg)
Dave
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I received a gift today.....from a friend here....Thanks Don!
I'll post pictures tomorrow!
Dave
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OK as promised....here's some photo's of a gift....Seems Don1966 had one of these kicking around and was thinking of me.
:pinkelephant: :cheers: :whoohoo:
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-11_09-15-23_189.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-11_09-15-50_924.jpg)
I just need to mount it....and get a three phase motor.....Thanks Don!
:NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:
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Wow - that was nice of you Don, very cool.
Looking great Dave
Steve
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Dave you are quiet welcome and it should make a nice addition to your lathe. That is once you finish with all scraping and assembling.
Don
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Sweet....I just recommended one of those to a relative who has an idle SB heavy 10 in his hanger. He never finished the mounting plate for a replacement single phase motor. He has a 3 phase one so hopefully I will have access to another lathe when I travel.
Dan
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Dave you are quiet welcome and it should make a nice addition to your lathe. That is once you finish with all scraping and assembling.
Don
Yes it will Don....and I'm itching to get it done! The weekend is coming!
Dave
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Very nice.
Sounds like it arriving cured your cold for you ;).
Jo
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Got a bit of time out in the shop yesterday. The saddle is progressing...now that the alignment is close...within .001" in 3 planes...I'm focusing now on beairng. I'm running into a problem with the mark up. Ground surfaces don't generally do well as masters because of the smooth finish. When I mark up and focus on bearing, it gets kinda vague. I've tried reversing the markup by marking up the saddle and doing the rub with the ground bed ways...there by showing the high spots bright....that seems to be working better.
Additionally, the mounting boss for the underside way gib is in the way of a traditional scraper. Very Awkward!
I'ver resorted to using a near straight blade and putting the ball of the scraper on my shoulder, then using both hands, drawing the scraper towards me with the blade near vertical. This seems to have solved the problem for the moment....now it's the tedious part....scrape a little....check a lot....
The 4 ways surfaces of the saddle are technically over constrained. its a 4 legged stool. Getting the 4th foot to touch down even is the trick.
The plan I am following is to get the geometry as close as I can, and then using a scraping term.,...scrape straight down, which means in this case to work all the surfaces evenly and excavate the surface....straight down!.
As I do, the low areas that are not touching will slowly show bearing, and fill in. This will be tedious....but I think "I" can do it this way...a more competant scraper would have been done by now....but I don't need to make money on this. The saddle is the heart of the lathe, and it's accuracy reflects on every part that is made on the lathe....so I need to take my time..
This cold is still kicking my A)@))U!.....but it's heading in the right direction.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Sorry I missed you the other night. Hope the cold is on it's way out. I've always had a problem with chatter scraping vertically, but if needs must I wish you good luck. I gotta say that it's the 1st time I can see the value of a ball handle. :ThumbsUp:
Best Regards
Bob
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I like the ball handle ....it's just comfortable to me...
Dave
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Hey Dave, you mentioned using a poly-v (serpentine) belt, just wondered if you had seen 'Hot-Rodding a 9" SB Lathe' by Peter Verbree (HSM July/Aug 2006). It's on my to-do list for when I 'rebuild' my lathe (well, just a cleanup and felt replacement ::) ).
Great job on the lathe, you're making me jealous. :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy:
Cheers
Jeff
By the way I know Pete the author....He's a nice guy. I'm the guy who sold him the Lewis shaper castings.....
Dave
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OK Don you will be happy to know that I bought a 3/4 HP 1800 rpm 3 phase motor for the lathe....Additionally, Ive figuired out that I want the tachometer option and I have purchased an enclosure that will take the pot, switch and tach.
The Lathe specific tool chest is here...see other thread. I am making a "collet rack" that fits inside the bottom draw as I have about 40 or so 3C collets that need a home.
I've got decent bearing on the saddle at the moment....so almost done with the saddle ways. Once the saddle ways are done, I have to tackle the saddle gib surface which I'm sure is out of wack! Then refit the gib.
I think I'll need to touch up the cross slide just a bit.....but I'm getting there. It's coming in nice!
Dave
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OK Don you will be happy to know that I bought a 3/4 HP 1800 rpm 3 phase motor for the lathe....Additionally, Ive figuired out that I want the tachometer option and I have purchased an enclosure that will take the pot, switch and tach.
The Lathe specific tool chest is here...see other thread. I am making a "collet rack" that fits inside the bottom draw as I have about 40 or so 3C collets that need a home.
Dave
3/4 horse, :thinking: that seems to be a little motor for such a large lathe.
I've seen the chest, can we be nosey and see what you are going to put in it, racks and storage of goodies is always interesting ;D .... Oh dear that might mean that someone wants to see the inside of my Cowells cabinet :paranoia:
Jo
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Large Lathe! It's a wee thing! ;D....My Logan is getting big...that's 12" swing 2 HP 55-2000 RPM ......If I'm hogging stock it's in the Logan anyway.
It's the only lathe I own that can justify using Carbide.
Dave
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My Dave I didn't realise that your lathes were so conservative on power usage, my Colchester has a 3hp motor, using it keeps the workshop warm in winter :D.
Jo
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Here's the box. The bottom drawer will have a collet rack put in that will accept my 3C collets
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-10-18_17-43-11_792.jpg)
The next drawer up is my AXA toolholders. laying on their sides.
Above that lathe specific dial indicater stands and indicaters
Above that micrometers...and dial calipers , toolmakers buttons, faceplate straps.
There will be a seperate external rack for tailstock tooling...drill chucks, die and tap holders.
I have a nice looking oak letter tray that I will be putting a cleat on the bottom of to create a "in process" tooling tray that will sit on the bed ways.
The box will be post mounted about 12" above the top of the bench so the bottom draw clears the bed, and the chip tray is easy to clean.
Dave
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Well...2HP is plenty for most of my work...I've taken 3/4" off diameter/pass from about 3" diameter free machining steel. It was grunting at that point...but It did so cheerfully.....If I need more than that...it's production! :ROFL:
Dave
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OK Don you will be happy to know that I bought a 3/4 HP 1800 rpm 3 phase motor for the lathe....Additionally, Ive figuired out that I want the tachometer option and I have purchased an enclosure that will take the pot, switch and tach.
The Lathe specific tool chest is here...see other thread. I am making a "collet rack" that fits inside the bottom draw as I have about 40 or so 3C collets that need a home.
I've got decent bearing on the saddle at the moment....so almost done with the saddle ways. Once the saddle ways are done, I have to tackle the saddle gib surface which I'm sure is out of wack! Then refit the gib.
I think I'll need to touch up the cross slide just a bit.....but I'm getting there. It's coming in nice!
Dave
Great Dave, so every thing is going smoothly from what I can see. You run into any problem with the drive let me know.
Don
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It is Don! Still sneaking up on the alignment of the saddle....my cold has turned into Sinusitis...and has knocked me on my a*^& so not much happened last week as I was getting caught up on my missed week of work prior.
I got some time on it last night.....front to back the saddle is spot on....left to right is still off a bit...but it's coming in.....its very sensitive to bearing...getting the 4 Vways to sit down and stay that way is touchy! 1 cycle will move it around alot!....but I'm getting a feel for it.....I'm also getting used to looking at the mark up with my glasses!....5 years ago my site was 20-15.....Now detail work I NEED my readers....but that's alright.
It has "broken indicator" syndrom on squareness.....have to make sure the indicator really works!....It is...its just not moving. :whoohoo:
I just got a hold of a Brown and Shape No 730 indicator set and stand...it's got the attachments measure up V ways, and indicate spindles relative to V ways .....got is on the bay and have been looking for a while till I found one at a price I would pay.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/Brownandsharpeindicatorstand.jpg)
Dave
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Dave,
You keep coming up with tools I have never seen. That looks interesting and I am looking forward to seeing how to use one.
Dan
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Interesting Dave, I am having some movement in my Myfords head stock. The front bearing is a tapered bearing and is adjustable. I adjust it till it is snug with two locking nuts then a locking collar on the back end. The problem I have is when you put a handle under the spindle shaft with a DTI on the top, there is hardly any movement. But when I screw my chuck on and do the same I get .010 movement. This is telling me my back bearings have movement in them. Now the front is a brass tapered bushing and the rear are bearings. so am I to believe the bearing have movement or the bearing surface has wear? Right now I am not a happy camper.
Don
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I just got a hold of a Brown and Shape No 730 indicator set and stand...it's got the attachments measure up V ways, and indicate spindles relative to V ways .....got is on the bay and have been looking for a while till I found one at a price I would pay.
Hey I've got one of those stands, never knew what it was for. Watching with great interest :DrinkPint:.
Jo
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Don,
Try the same test with just a good fitting collet or MT arbor....just to be sure it's not the chuck backplate.
Dave
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Thanks Dave I will try that tomorrow, but I don't feel to good about this. It did it with two different chucks.
Don
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And you are measuring at the same spot right?
Dave
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I put a piece of 3/4" drill rod in it to do the measuring tomorrow I will do more testing.
Don
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I just got a hold of a Brown and Shape No 730 indicator set and stand...it's got the attachments measure up V ways, and indicate spindles relative to V ways .....got is on the bay and have been looking for a while till I found one at a price I would pay.
Hey I've got one of those stands, never knew what it was for. Watching with great interest :DrinkPint:.
Jo
It's not really any different than say a Starrett stand that has the pins that you push down so you can ride down the edge of the part....just bigger and longer.
Dave
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I put a piece of 3/4" drill rod in it to do the measuring tomorrow I will do more testing.
Don
Try to measure the deflection at the same distance from the spindle. Keep your measureing pin LARGE...3/4 is not very big.
Dave
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Interesting Dave, I am having some movement in my Myfords head stock. The front bearing is a tapered bearing and is adjustable. I adjust it till it is snug with two locking nuts then a locking collar on the back end. The problem I have is when you put a handle under the spindle shaft with a DTI on the top, there is hardly any movement. But when I screw my chuck on and do the same I get .010 movement. This is telling me my back bearings have movement in them. Now the front is a brass tapered bushing and the rear are bearings. so am I to believe the bearing have movement or the bearing surface has wear? Right now I am not a happy camper.
Don
Don have you adjusted the head stock as per Myford's instructions ?
wind out the front bearing until its completely free of the taper, then adjust the outboard bearings for no play and no drag using the pin spanner , then you adjust the front bearing.
if you need a scan of the instructions PM me
Stuart
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Thanks Stuart for the instructions, I do have the book and follower as the book said. I think I had the chuck not screwed all the way as Dave Said. With my 5C chuck on and a 1/4" rod in the chuck I get .002 movement. I adjusted the spindle till it was snug and could not turn the chuck and backed off till it would turn by hand. I adjust the two spanner nuts first then finish with the locking collar. It's the locking collar that stops the chuck when to tight. Even after adjustment I still get .002 up down movement. Seems like it should be better.
Don
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Don
don't forget when its rotating its on a film of oil ( ramp effect with the oil being the wedge ) that takes up the slack so to speak
I adjust the the locking nuts for the front end cone with the end of the supplied spanner moved 1 1/2 inches , thats ok for 2K rpm but if I need to go to the max 3 K it needs 2 1/2 inches else it tries to nip up ( good job it has the safety screws in or the chuck would have gone walkabout
the movement is about right when the spindle is stationary
Stuart
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Thanks Stuart, that makes sense. I just expected it to be better.
Don
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Here's my plan for the collet draw and accessories.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/colletdraw.png)
72 positions with 53 collets, collet adapter, ejector nut and wrench.
Dave
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Dave is that cork you made this out of? Looks good.
Oh! I see it's a drawing.
Don
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Dave, You might want to not to right to the back of the drawer with the final rows of collets, otherwise you will need to bring the drawer forward so far to get at the back row that the drawer will falls off its runners :-\.
Jo
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Excellent point Jo! I'll remove that row. I have enough storage as it is.
Dave
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From Brown and Sharpe's 1913 catalog.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/730indicatorstandincatalog.jpg)
Dave
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:) Hay, thanks Dave!
At just $20 I'll take Two ;D
::) Freight might be a killer - can I drop by and pick-em up? :noidea:
Bez
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Pricey by 1913 standards....
I didn't pay that much more!.....accounting for inflation!
I checked for parallelism and it's *)eu(*eu(*y SPOT ON!...
A precision parallel is one of the reasons I bought it.
Dave
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Looks like I need to make my self a set of those stops to go with my base :thinking: now that I understand better how it is used.
Jo
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Looks like I need to make my self a set of those stops to go with my base :thinking: now that I understand better how it is used.
Jo
ME TOO! The stops are for "manly" lathes ...they dwarf my SB VEE ways and extend down past the V way. So I'll need to make a smaller one for mine,,,,,,oh well
Dave
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Got a couple hours in this morning early. Less than a thou out of parallel left to right now. front to back is dead on and bearing has improved dramatically. Now it's slow going....as I have to keep improving the bearing while I move this thing around.
Feels great on the ways. I mounted an indicator to the saddle and touched off on the Headstock/Tailstock V way...and traveresed....NO indicator movement whatsoever over at least 2 feet of travel.....the bed grind job appears to have been done VERY well. I still need to check the parallelism of the leveling surfaces to the V ways...., but I think they're fine.
Feet hurt on the concrete floor ....even with a mat.
I need to clean up in there too...it's a mess.
Dave
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Less than a thou out of parallel left to right now. front to back is dead on and bearing has improved dramatically.
Feels great on the ways.
Wow Dave, you are achieving an amazing level of accuracy :insane:.
I just checked my Colchester calibration figs, her way alignment along the full 48" working area is within 0.3 thou. So 2ft with zero is :cartwheel:
A good pair of thick socks should help your feet ;).
Jo
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I wish I could take credit for it Jo....that's all a measure of how well it was ground.
The fit and alignment of the Saddle is all me though....
Dave
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Dave, just got caught up on this. You do amazing work!
I have an SB with the same long bed, really really worn. Would it be rude to ask what the grinding cost? Shipping sounds expensive too.
What is the lathe mounted to? I would worry about putting a twist in mine, although leveling it checking at places all along the bed should solve that for me.
Thanks for the education.
Lee
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Lee
PM sent
Dave
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OK
Pitch.....front to back.... .00025/10" Half division of the level
Roll.......Left to right...... .00025/10" Half division of the level
Squareness of the cross slide dovetail to the ways Less than .0003/6" concave....I think it's as good as the reference square.
Decent bearing so far....it needs a bit more ....but it's getting twitchy....I can't even stone it between cycles too much or it goes away.
I think I'll improve the bearing and move on to the saddle gib....which should be interested...considering I took .007" stock off the bed
I'll have to take .007" off the gib mounting surface... 8)
Dave
PS....did I mention my arm hurts.....? :censored:
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Just think, it's just about ready to pay off. All the work is showing itself one scrape at a time. Your doing great bud keep it up. Bet you haven't had a work out like this in a while. :praise2:
Don
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Thanks Don....we're gaining on it!
Dave
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Dave, just got caught up on this. You do amazing work!
I have an SB with the same long bed, really really worn. Would it be rude to ask what the grinding cost? Shipping sounds expensive too.
What is the lathe mounted to? I would worry about putting a twist in mine, although leveling it checking at places all along the bed should solve that for me.
Thanks for the education.
Lee
I have the lathe mounted to a SB steel base. I also picked up the adjustable bed foot which allows me to take the twist of the bed out of th equation.
I modded the base with adjustable leveling feet as well.
Dave
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OK...I studied "Keeping your lathe in Trim" and low and behold.....the saddle gib will be very simple
The mount surface needs to be parallel to the ways, and the gib itself needs to be flat....but it's essentially spring loaded....no real "fitting" required.
See the link attached, it has the factory instructions for adjusting the gib...
Dave
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thanks for the scan about the saddle gib.
mine does not have the spring washers so i machined and lapped it to fit, but i think it will get some spring washers anyway.
by the way this lathe project is very interesting and i am learning allot from your postings.
thanks again dave ;D
chuck
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THanks Chuck,
I'll scrape the gib flat and check the bottom of the saddle gib mount to be sure it's parallel....but that's about it.
Dave
PS Chuck did you find what you were looking for on 3C collets?
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OK I'm excited.... the weekend is here!
I need to help my Son make a weather vane!.....Science project.
Then maybe I can get on with concluding scraping of the saddle.....I think its going to go pretty fast now. My right forearm is still sore from last weekend! But I can smell it!......
I'm going to put together some sort of summary of what went on with the saddle.....I learned a lot while I was struggling with that one....getting pitch roll and squareness to come in at the same time...would like to pass some of that along...it's no real mystery this scraping thing....but it is a lot of work...and requires patience....and the excercise of the gray matter!.....
Dave
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Come on Dave. ;D
:pics:
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Patience Zee! I got Halloween duty this evening...and I need to find a way to keep my son's mind occupied...I'm thinking Algebra...
Dave
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Patience Zee! I got Halloween duty this evening...and I need to find a way to keep my son's mind occupied...I'm thinking Algebra...
Dave
Algebra !!! :censored:
That ought to frighten the BeeGees out of any teenager. :Jester:
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.....He's 9..... 8)
He's bored with school.....so ....give em something to work on.....
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So that is where Bee-Gees come from?
I just got a good laugh when I noticed this is in the Quickie machine modifications area! :P
Lee
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I know...keeping this short is like trying to paraphrase "War and Peace".......
I;m trying...
Dave
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How so Norman?
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By going round the Bend?
Indeed.....
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Tell me did the weather vane include a steam launch? :naughty: Or something more interesting? A wallaby....
Jo
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NOPE just a weather vane...and I have my trepedation with a brass "arrow" going into the school....we may need to "dumb" it down so nobody freaks out.
Dave
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The underside of the saddle is out of parallel by about .003". That wont be too hard as the area to take down is very small.
The Gib well....its not flat....but again the area is small and a few passes with the scraper took it down quickly.
The gib is VERY soft...suprisingly so.
Dave
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I keep reading about your progress Dave. Are we getting close to getting it all leveled out? Will we be seeing any photos soon? Getting itchy here to see some. Not rushing you mind you, I know this takes a lot of time. We just need another fix.
Don
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I'll get some pictures together as soon as I get my son down....
Dave
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Ok Got some video coming of the saddle....I think you'll like it.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/th_2012-11-03_21-49-49_743.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/?action=view¤t=2012-11-03_21-49-49_743.mp4)
Dave
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I have another one once it loads
Dave
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Some description of what I'm doing to the saddle gib
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/th_2012-11-03_21-51-50_79.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/?action=view¤t=2012-11-03_21-51-50_79.mp4)
Dave
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Well I asked for pics but I guess videos will do. ;D
Looks good Dave.
I'd be ecstatic but you seem to expect no less. :Lol:
Have you ever done a video showing you scraping? That'd be interesting but I know it's quite a bit of work.
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Thanks Zee....I know I don't sound excited.....but it was a process...not a destination...so I've watched it get there....
I can see what I can do as far as a video of me scraping....but it's not exactly something Speilburg will be searching to do....and is more like watching paint dry. I need to scrape in the HS/TS so...I guess I can go there.....
Dave
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Its all progress Dave, slow as it is...
I'll support Zee's request to see some scraping in action.
Not Just for the S&M value :mischief:
I think I would have difficulty finding the middle ground between scraping too hard and end up chasing my tail and the other extreme scrape & measure, no visible change, scrape & measure, no visible change, scrape & measure, no visible change....... Ah shoot lets take a few months off, for my arms to recover, no visible change!
Bez
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Must be a good feeling to watch the needle on the dial stay still, almost as if it was broken! Nice job, you will have a precise machine and no doubt it will produce a good surface finish also.
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Thanks Dave for the video, that should hold us up for a while. Impressive work you have done so far. It takes a lot of patience and presseverance. :praise2:
Don
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Must be a good feeling to watch the needle on the dial stay still, almost as if it was broken! Nice job, you will have a precise machine and no doubt it will produce a good surface finish also.
It is. But it's not all me. Let me explain
The test of slideing the saddle left and right. That is a measure of how straight the ways are, and how parallel the HS V way is to the saddle ways...You can thank Forrestt City grinding for that.
Though I am very pleased!....I cant take credit for that.
The test of pushing on the saddle, from various directions...and nothing moves.....that's a measure of how well it matches the bed when I scraped it...and yes that is very satisifying I can push it along the bed with 1 finger...but put 10 pounds on it from any other direction and it's solid.
The HS and TS for sure will need some scraping...I don't think the HS is aligned that well....and then the turret tailstock....and the milling attachment!
The milling attachment is a Chinese Myford clone I bought new from RDG...I bought that over the SB as... well..... the SB units go for stupid money!...and the SB unit really doesn't suite what I want to do with it. I want a set of Tslots. This RDG unit is made to a price point, and I consider it a kit of parts....I haven't checked it yet....want to run any bets on what the geometry looks like? ::).....I'll hold judgement...but I bet I'll be going through it. That may be a good subject for a thread in and of itself.
Thanks guys....
Dave
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Its all progress Dave, slow as it is...
I'll support Zee's request to see some scraping in action.
Not Just for the S&M value :mischief:
I think I would have difficulty finding the middle ground between scraping too hard and end up chasing my tail and the other extreme scrape & measure, no visible change, scrape & measure, no visible change, scrape & measure, no visible change....... Ah shoot lets take a few months off, for my arms to recover, no visible change!
Bez
I'll tell ya Bez.....start simple. Get a nice piece of iron say 4 x 6 x 1" thick....and a surface plate....there are plenty of threads on the web that will describe how to make a scraper....get some Hi spot blue and some nitrile gloves.....and have at it!....make it flat.
You can't go wrong....and you'll get a feel for it....its a very satisfying activity and it requires patience, and consideration...but mostly....just do it. When your making a pass....don't think too much....just get into a rhythm and go. You decide before you cut if it's a finishing pass or a roughing pass....just set the mind to that....and go....You will feel the cut and know if your even or not....You do the thinking between the cuts... ;D
Dave
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Thanks Dave for the video, that should hold us up for a while. Impressive work you have done so far. It takes a lot of patience and presseverance. :praise2:
Don
Thanks Don! Its getting there!
Dave
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I really wish I could see pbucket videos :(
They just don't play on an iPad, I will get to the laptop later for them.
Lee
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Lee I have an IPAD and have no problem see the video on it. Could be your router blocking it.
Don
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Finally got to a machine that will run the vids.
Wow, words fail me :NotWorthy: :NotWorthy: .
Jo
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Thanks Jo!
Dave
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I had to download the vids to be able to watch them (I'm on a Mac)
That's pretty sweet Dave. You sure that indicator is working :stir:
Steve
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When it got there Steve....I couldn't quite believe it either...so I put my precision level on it....and did the same test....it didn't budge!
Considering it kinematically over constrained on two Vways....I'm rather chuffed.
It took patience....and a lot of it....and some problem solving....and some experimentation as I'm not a "Scraper hand"....so It took me WAY longer to do than someone who actually knows what they're doing......
...but there it is...and for there by the grace of which ever deity you subscribe to ....go I.
Time to finish the *#$*#&&# gib!
:DrinkPint:
Dave
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Dave - Looks like it was time well spent to me. Will be a great machine and you'll know it inside out.
Steve
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OK I got the )*@#*U)*( gib done! I still have to flatten out the gib mounting pad on the underside of the saddle...the .003" out of parallelism was apparently good enough for Southbend....guess which side of the gib was worn!? The side opposite , just as you would guess! :censored:
Can you cuss at someone 61 years later?.....I mean it's supposed to be a lathe....not a dish washer!
I suppose a lot of parts were made on this old girl before I got her...foibles and all.....makes you wish machines could talk......probably would be cussing at me to get it done already! ::)
Dave
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Take a deep breath Dave, one more hurdle has been jumped. You have done great so far just a couple more steps to go buddy and it will be done.
I was tramming my mill today and guess what the Y axis is off by .005. I wondered why I had little steppes in my cuts. It's when I move the axis that I get the error. I had to shim to get it in on the axis without moving it, it was off .002. Now I will have to scrap it to get it true when moving the axis. I hope I can do that.
Don
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Ah don't worry Don....I came home from a grumpy day at the asylum....put an encoder on it they say!....hell we're only shipping in 6 weeks....whats your hurry! :cussing: :censored: :Mad:
Low patience day.....must walk away from projects requireing patience....I spent it already!
Tomorrow's another day
Dave
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I got the gib mounting surface flat and parallel to the ways to about .0005" or so today. The gib fits and bears nice on the gib way....
I called that well enough.
I then turned my attention to the cross slide.
I mounted up the cross slide and checked it with the gib. it had a rough spot. I checked the various parts and I had a couple of things going on. One is all the manipulation of the saddle had resulted in some digs and dents from the bench vice. I took those out and switched over to my wood vice. Next I checked the dovetail with a micrometer over gage pins. I found the far end was out on the gib side ( large) by .001"! over the last 1 1/2" of dovetail. So OK...I fixed that. The fit got much better, but there was still something not quite right. I found a raised section from one of the gib screws. Took that down. OK NOW it moves nice and smooth, and with about a 1/8th turn of the gib screw...locks the saddle down! It's showing good bearing Good! Almost there!
NOW check the alignment.
The Saddle flat ways are parallel to about .0002"..perhaps less, to the ways. as measured with a precision level and with a tenths indicator. I Checked the Cross slide with a micrometer and an indicator stand and its also within about .0002" to the flat ways.
I should be in like Flynn!
But ...mounted on the lathe, it's out .0005" (left to right) over 3 1/2"! :cussing: :hellno:....the errors were on the same side and added I suspect.
So Tomorrow morning, my hobby continues. I will take down one side of the cross slide about .0005" in the effort to get a zero reading over the top of the T slotted cross slide. You may comment that geez Dave.... .0005"! That's great! Give it a rest!
...but ...I will be mounting a vertical slide to this and the error will be amplified over the length of it...and put into every part I mount on it ........ and ....annoying the hell out of me in the process!....
I'll sharpen up the carbide in the morning...... ::)
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Good to hear Dave, you are sooooo..... Close buddy. I know how you feel about that last .0002 it would annoy me also. Especially when you are that close.
Don
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OK....more info....MOST of the error is in the cross slide itself!.....So says Mr Precision level!
Funny thing it is to try to measure across multiple datums to tenths!....You need to get multiple "opinions".... :Lol........"I think it's .0002" " says the tenths dial indicator...."I disagree!....I think it's .0004"!"...says Mr Precision Level..... Personally, I think Mr Micrometer has his head up it's A )$(*#( for this measurement as he doesn't have a ratchet thimble....so HE can be off at least .0002" without even thinking about it!
>:( ::)
I'm sharpening up the blades anyway! .....after I get some more coffee....... ::)
Dave
-
Sounds like the way to go Dave. If I had put all that effort in and managed to get such a great result, I'd be wanting to get the last bits up to the same standard as the rest.
Steve
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You've got perserverance Dave.
Had it been me...I wouldn't have even started.
I'd have shipped to you with a 'help me out' bribe.
Or some kind of unwritten easily forgotten promise.
-
You've got perserverance Dave.
Thanks Zee! YUP....I'm beginning to wonder about the brains part though ::).....good thing I don't do this for a living..... :o
Dave
-
[/quote]
....good thing I don't do this for a living..... :o
[/quote]
Dave, the last guy who scraped that lathe did do it for a living. I think you are doing a much better job if somewhat slower.
Dan
-
Thanks Dan!
I got wrangled into putting plywood down over the ceiling joists in the "attic" ....which is a crawl space.....
I'm not built for crawl spaces :hellno:.......so picking up a scraper last night was not high on the list of activities....I went to bed at 8:30pm :censored:
This week...or this weekend coming........
Dave
-
Dave,
Just think of how good it is going to feel when it is done :Love:. I would be happy if my machining was to the sort of tolerances you are talking about ;).
Jo
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Dave,
Just think of how good it is going to feel when it is done :Love:. I would be happy if my machining was to the sort of tolerances you are talking about ;).
Jo
Heee heeee.....So WOULD I! :lolb:
In the end....there will be no excuse for a bad part....It'll be ALL ME!
-
Here's a pair of alignment sheets for a Colchester lathe.
I'll be using this and Connelly to determine good enough,,,
http://www.lathes.co.uk/colchester/page37.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/colchester/page38.html
Dave
-
I recognise those from my Colchester Master's handbook. I also seem to recall a circular chart that measures nose run out.
Jo
-
OK you scraping junkies....I'll announce this in advance
When I'm done with the lathe....HS TS and saddle and cutting steel well....I'll consider the LATHE done.
I'll do a post on scraping in the milling attachment....with vids if I can ...
I'll never claim to be an expert at this, but I'll gladly share what I do know. Perhaps one of our members will teach me something as well
Dave
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Great Dave, I'm in on this one. Any education is interesting to me. And I don't doubt you you do a great job of it. So I am tuning in and getting the beer ready.
Don
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I'll do a post on scraping in the milling attachment....with vids if I can ...
SB did a milling attachment :o? Or is it a third party gadget?
Jo
-
A very good quote there Dave.
In the end....there will be no excuse for a bad part....It'll be ALL ME!
Once a machine is set up correctly, no matter who it is, the rest is up to the operator.
Too many people blame their equipment for operator errors, the old adage that can be applied to mechanical things as well as computers, garbage in, garbage out.
The garbage being operator error.
John
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Just dug out the Colchester manual: I got it wrong, the circular chart is a "Talyrond" measuring the deviation from true roundness on a sample work piece turned in the lathe. Mine is 0.000,08 thou 8) I don't know how they created the chart though :thinking:.
Jo
-
I'll do a post on scraping in the milling attachment....with vids if I can ...
Can you do one on skinning drop b'ars as well?
Seriously - looking forwards to this, scraping is something I've not had much to do with.
-
A very good quote there Dave.
In the end....there will be no excuse for a bad part....It'll be ALL ME!
Once a machine is set up correctly, no matter who it is, the rest is up to the operator.
Too many people blame their equipment for operator errors, the old adage that can be applied to mechanical things as well as computers, garbage in, garbage out.
The garbage being operator error.
John
Hi John
I'm aware of the old adadge....No bad machines, just bad operators.
:lolb: Yeah! but I can't blame the machine anymore either! I SCRAPED IT!
If I blame the machine is not accurate enough......I'm blaming me
If I screw up the part......I'm blaming me
If I use the wrong feed or speed....I'm blaming me
......
It's alll MY! screw ups.....either by commission or omission....no one else!
Dave
-
I'll do a post on scraping in the milling attachment....with vids if I can ...
SB did a milling attachment :o? Or is it a third party gadget?
Jo
SouthBend did....and it's rather useless ( no hate mail please) It does allow for compound angle setting, but I don't really need that and a conventional arrangement is more rigid. The "two screws and a jaw plate" clamping arrangement ruins an otherwise nice unit
They also go for outrageous money :hellno:.....if you need cheering up go on the "bay" and punch in Southbend milling attachment....or Southbend Taper attachment.....
I need a vertical slide for clock wheels and boring multiple holes in small parts.
I obtained a Myford clone milling unit as it's got T slots nearly identical to my cross slide, and I have a way to mount a Sherline spindle to it for light milling duty.
But like I said....initial inspection shows the Clone unit to be ....more or less....a kit of parts....though I could be suprised ::).....
Dave
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/53e0_12.jpg)
-
Just dug out the Colchester manual: I got it wrong, the circular chart is a "Talyrond" measuring the deviation from true roundness on a sample work piece turned in the lathe. Mine is 0.000,08 thou 8) I don't know how they created the chart though :thinking:.
Jo
Talyrond...is the name of a machine used to measure roundness and runout. They are made by Taylor Hobson. Do a google search and you'll find it. Good company, but not the only gig in town. There are some high end American manufacturers out there too.
2 microns is pretty damn good Jo!
Dave
-
I need a vertical slide for clock wheels and boring multiple holes in small parts.
I obtained a Myford clone milling unit as it's got T slots nearly identical to my cross slide, and I have a way to mount a Sherline spindle to it for light milling duty.
And you can then do co-ordinate drilling on the lathe as well as holes on a pitch circle. I'd be interested to see your spindle attachment, as it's one of the bits of tooling I'm currently working on.
-
Dave the opposite is also true, when something comes out well it's all YOU!
Lee
-
I need a vertical slide for clock wheels and boring multiple holes in small parts.
I obtained a Myford clone milling unit as it's got T slots nearly identical to my cross slide, and I have a way to mount a Sherline spindle to it for light milling duty.
And you can then do co-ordinate drilling on the lathe as well as holes on a pitch circle. I'd be interested to see your spindle attachment, as it's one of the bits of tooling I'm currently working on.
Hi Ian,
The Sherline head mounts to the Vertical slide. So no coordinate drilling.
Dave
-
Well.....It's Thanksgiving week....my Inlaws are coming....that means I had honey do lists a mile long
Fix washing machine spigot
Fix dryer
Pack the extra stuff from summer
Haul it to the attic
Try to see the last race of the season...
Go Grocery shoping
=
No scraping this weekend.......
-
Got a bit more done on the cross slide and did a final fitting of the compound....sits down tight .
A bit more to do...I got distracted this weekend with an shop opportunity that dropped in my lap....I'm mulling it over....
Dave
-
Hm. Over two weeks now.
Hey! We're missing a 'poke-stick' emoticon! ;D
-
Hi Dave, glad you are back on it. I need another fix here buddy. Show us some progress when you can, Photos bud!
Don
-
Is it going to be finished for Xmas?
Jo
-
Following a bit on leadscrew problems in another forum's post, I was wondering how Dave was going to compensate for the drop in the bed height and the removal of metal under the saddle.
There is not a lot of information on this. Perhaps you could comment, please.
regards
Norman
-
Hi Norman,
I'll be putting a shim between the gearbox and leadscrew hangers, and the bed. This will need to be determined as the bed had about .007" taken off, but, the saddle ways wore most on the apron side by about .010" so when the saddle was scraped level...it's anybodys guess as to where it ended up, so its a race to see who lowered the most!. I might have to shim the apron!
First I need some information as to what the extent of misalignment is.
What I plan to do is turn up a small shaft about 12" long which mimics the leadscrew. On the right side it will have a diameter that is the same as the journal diameter of the leadscrew hanger...and then step up to the root diameter of the leadscrew thread, and then step up again to a good running fit inside the apron worm. With the mimiced shaft in place, and the halfnuts closed, I can measure directly from the saddle what the difference is and compensate accordingly....where ever that might be.....but I bet I"m shimming the leadscrew hanger and gear box.
The good news is the Southbend is a simple lathe, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to shim. I don't have a pleathora of feed shafts and control shafts that have to move like other lathes...just 1 leadscrew.
Dave
-
Is it going to be finished for Xmas?
Jo
It'll get done....we'll see if it's by Christmas.....
-
I got curious because my saddle ( on the Myford) was well worn and in old practice would have needed a new casting( Myford said- on an earlier job) My present one had a Turcite insert to build it up again. Moglice or Devcon might be useful in your case?
I look forward your finished product.
Norm
-
Nope...no plastic on mine...though Moglice is a wonderful material. It's simple enough to just shim. Considering it never moves....I don't have any problems using a shim here....I don't like shimming Tailstocks to get them on center though...which is why I made a new base for mine. I still need to scrape that in. ::)
Dave
-
I got to the 'Do I, Don't I' stage and whilst I had enough Meehanite to carve up, the experts said that this Turcite was how they were restoring lathes to professional standards. Having said all that, I really don't like shim steel or brass) for obvious reasons but my little baby Stent T and C is fabricated from steel running on steel and is perfectly OK.
Mebbe we are over fussy but one of the old contributors to Model Engineer made new shell bearings from aluminium for Rolls Royce Merlin engines for Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Western Desert.
Comment-- and we won! Our old Spitfire is still running today and it was maintained by a fitter who is still running( slowly) with 6 weeks training :Doh:. I had 6 weeks training- and so am I ,after a fashion.
All museum pieces- or so my wife comments :old:
-
I rescraped the saddle back to alignment and bearing as it was originally from the factory in 51', though this time around with the ground bed as the reference .... The saddle just sits a bit lower now.
The shims are stationary and under the gearbox and hanger and clamped betwee them and the lathe bed by 3 bolts each....so If well made, I can see no problem with them being any differant than the material they are mated to.....whether the shims are brass or steel.....at least in the .010" range.
Dave
-
And there is a good reason Myford would change to a new saddle ...or raise the existing one. The hanger bracket is pinned....in the first place...so relocating it would be very difficult indeed.
Additionally, the Myford box hangs on the vertical surface on the SIDE of the ways, while the Southbend hangs on a horizontal surface UNDER the ways. The Myford way will work in only 1 position, while the Southbend can be easily shimmed down.
It is far easier to rebuild the Southbend I think.
Though I suppose if I had wanted to, I could have put Moglice on the saddle and built it up. I just didn't see the need.
Dave
-
It's a bit trickier than that with the older Myfords. If one gets to the stage of avoiding the narrow guide principle, the saddle has to be offset to bear on Number 4 shear instead of the normal number 2 one.
It's interesting. Some Myford owner might ask 'How, when and why'
Sorry, I didn't really want to go off from SB's( whatever they are ) :headscratch:
ooops
N
-
SB stands for South Bend Lathe think Boxford as they are very similar.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/
Dan
-
Yup.... A Boxford Model A is just about identical to a Southbend 9" Model A.....as well as Hercus, Smart and Brown....ect
Dave
-
Apologies, gentlemen, English humour :mischief:
It's in the jeans. Sorry, genes!
-
OK...after a stressful, but productive week at work...it's the weekend!
I plan to do some work on the "bend"....but ...I may I may be distracted by shiney things.... :LittleDevil:
Dave
-
....but ...I may I may be distracted by shiney things.... :LittleDevil:
Understandable. So long as there's PICS of shiney things. ;D
-
OK...after a stressful, but productive week at work...it's the weekend!
....but ...I may I may be distracted by shiney things.... :LittleDevil:
If only stress at work ended up achieving something tangible. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Shiney things are fun :mischief:.
Jo
-
OK!
The cross slide and saddle are done!
Started tonight by measureing the alignment of the HS spindle with respect to the saddle ways
YUK!
The end of the test bar should be pointing up and towards the front by the. 0005"
Its pointing down. 0015 and to the rear. 002"!
Im going to adjust the spindle bearings first and see where we end upp
Ok. Considering I only want to do this once.....ill take the spindle apart and put the new belt on
-
We are waiting patiencely Dave, rushing things only causes delays so take it slowly buddy. We want to see it done like its suppose to. You have done wonders so far so keep up the excellent progress.
Don
-
Thanks Don
It should start to pick up the pace now...
The next real challenge will be aligning the leadscrew....
The tailstock should be tediuos.....but straight forward
The tough part is really over
.....at least I think it is anyways
Dave
-
Here's a few photo's
Top front of test bar....zero
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-16_16-49-45_12.jpg)
At end of the spindle...+.0015
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-16_16-49-58_44.jpg)
In the horizontal plane, at the end of the front of the test bar.....zero
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-16_17-16-31_322.jpg)
At the end of the spindle....-.002
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-16_17-16-22_484.jpg)
And to my previous point...as this is a plain bearing spindle.....I need to make sure the bearings are adjusted correctly, before I can do anything about this. The test bar is 9" long , and the standard is +.0005/12" up and to the front. This translates to 9/12 x .0005 or about .0003" maximum at the end of the bar.
There doesn't seem to be any affect from tightening the HS clamp screws. That tells me the HS fits the bed pretty well..
Dave
-
Hi Dave
So, if necessary, are you going to scrape the bottom of the headstock or the bearings to fix this up?
Steve
-
Hi Steve
Yes....The bottom of the casting exactly...but before I do I want to be sure the spindle is fitting it's bearings correctly. If it really is off that far...it's from one of two things....
The casting distorted with age....or
It was never fitted correctly in the first place.... ::)
It appears to be stable...so it isn't twisted, and it seems to be bearing evenly.
Dave
PS...the bearing is split on one side...so scraping the bearing isn't really an option as it would be way out of round and impossible to correct.
-
Or, the HS is not original to this machine. Many SB's have been put together from parts of other machines over the years.
-
I don't know Mosey....the ways would have had to been WAY off for that alignment to make any sense.......
Dave
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Oh, I just know you'll set it right Dave :ThumbsUp: - glad to see you getting a bit of shop time :)
Kind regards, Arnold
-
It'll be right Arnold....I've got next week off! :whoohoo:
Time to reflectwork in the shop...do the honey do list..... :hellno:
Dave
-
It'll be right Arnold....I've got next week off! :whoohoo:
Time to reflectwork in the shop...do the honey do list..... :hellno:
Dave
Dave top of your honey do list must be to make time for moving all those machines around to allow space for the new one : having another machine tool blocking the drive especially at this time of the year is a big no-no. ;D
(I won't tell her were Norn is going in the meantime if you don't ;))
Jo
-
I might even get some Wallaby time in......we'll see.
Dave
-
OH I can assure you Mama knows all and sees all!
She was the one who agreed with me to go look at the "new" mill in the first place.....
And she knows what's going on with Norm...
Dave
It'll be right Arnold....I've got next week off! :whoohoo:
Time to reflectwork in the shop...do the honey do list..... :hellno:
Dave
Dave top of your honey do list must be to make time for moving all those machines around to allow space for the new one : having another machine tool blocking the drive especially at this time of the year is a big no-no. ;D
(I won't tell her were Norn is going in the meantime if you don't ;))
Jo
-
I picked up the thrust washer/bearing upgrade...so when I tear down the headstock this week to put the new belt on...I can put that in too.
Dave
-
Been racking the brain to explain why the HS is so far out of wack....I've carefully cleaned it...it doesn't show any burrs...it was clearly scraped by someone!...Sometime!
I ran the numbers on test bar droop....and they are only drooping about 70 millionths...which I can't possibly measure
I've rotated the test bar to split the run out....that only helped .0001 to .0002"....maybe....so it's not that
I'm coming to the conclusion that it is either the bearings are way out of adjustment...or it's been like this from day one...but that is a LOT of error for a reputable lathe builder....
I'll stone the v and flat gently again today and see if I see anything
I'm just fairly convinced that I'm missing something....so must be carefull.
Again there is no difference between the HS bolted down or not...so it's sitting on the flat and Vee pretty well right now.
I'll be pulling the spindle, back gear assembly and countershaft today and installing the drive belt....this will be the last time I'll pull the HS apart I hope.
I'll then re-install the spindle and set the bearing clearances to factory spec....and we'll check alignment again....
Dave
-
OK...checked the bearings....they're perfect.
Installed the belt
Installed the thrust bearing upgrade....that was simple...
Still pointing down and to the rear!...by the same amount
Time to get to work.....I'll get the bearing decent first...and then turn the Headstock
To do that I;m going to cut the rear inside V way and the rear flat way on the headstock....that will turn the spindle nose up and towards the front. I need to check bearing first though...as I remember the grinder telling me the Vees weren't really 90 degrees before, but that they are now....so I suspect the fit is not that good...so I should get the bearing close first. and then cut the inside V way as described above.
Don, I uncrated the 3/4 HP 3 phase motor...it's nice! I need to finish the control box for that this week before I lose Norm in 2 weeks....
The belt I picked out fit perfectly. Just the right length. I need to mount that motor too!
Lots to do!
Dave
-
Ok Dave, If you run into any trouble wth motor and drive just PM me. Good luck pal.
Don
-
OK not without a fight!...but it got there.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-22_16-20-12_192.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-22_16-20-22_258.jpg)
end of the bar
Front to back
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-22_16-24-38_119.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-22_16-24-54_942.jpg)
Please note the tenths indicator....so let me explain what happened and what I did
I found the headstock spindle was pointing down about .002" and towards the back by .002" BAD.
It should be up at the end of the bar by .0005 max and towards the front by .0005" max.
I ran a few experiments to see what the hell was going on....if I put the Headstock in the normal position on the bed, it rocked ..it was only sitting on three of the four points. BUT If I moved the headstock to anyplace else on the bed...it sat down nice and tight and marked up with good bearing...but was still pointing down and to the back by .0015"
I found two things....The Headstock was either warped with age or damaged by the previous owner, and the newly ground bed had a "swoop" in the last 6" of the inner Vway directly under the Headstock. It checked out with a indicator and with the Master precision level....
(*@(*&@(*@&#(@*&(@ :facepalm: :rant: :hammerbash: :zap:
OK what to do?....BOTH PARTS ARE WRONG!.........I decided to punt!
I reckon the Headstock....being the headstock...will always sit on the left hand end of the bed....where headstocks sit.....so I scraped the headstock back into alignment at that position only!.....It now sits down on the ways nice and tight...and has the alignment shown above
.0004" up at the top and .0002" towards the front . It shows no signs of moving when I push on the headstock from any direction, and I haven't put the HS clamps on yet. I will check to see if there is any movement when I clamp in down...but I don't expect any.
All in all a very productive day in the shop... :DrinkPint:
Dave
-
I mounted the HS clamps in place and got the same readings! So...on to the tailstock! I'll start by scraping the flat and vee to match the bed..and get the TS mortise square to the ways...or at least close!...Then I'll bring the top bearing surface down first on the mill..to like plus
.002" and then scrap it to align the TS spindle. I'll also need to finish the lever lock parts so I can do the alignments.
I'll take a picture of current progress and the test bar so maybe this will all make some sense ....in the morning...I've been going since 4 this morning!...
A few more days like this and I'll have a lathe running!
Cheers!
Dave
-
Looking good Dave, I just wish I could do that kind of work. I am still not happy with my lathe DTI read outs. But I will sort it out eventually. Your getting close buddy and you'll be using it before you know it. I'll be waiting for more photos.
Don
-
Very impressive :ThumbsUp: I am looking forward to seeing some bits of Wallaby being turned out on her.
Jo
-
Very impressive :ThumbsUp: I am looking forward to seeing some bits of Wallaby being turned out on her.
Jo
So am I Jo! What's left......I won't call it a ETC.....I know better
Tailstock clamp
Make clamp stud
Remake locking cam...current one doesn't have enough throw
Make the operating handle for the clamp
Fitting and aligning the tailstock
Alignment to the ways in two planes
Bring the center height .001" higher than HS center as checked with a mandrel held between centers.
Final check of alignment of the saddle, this time with Headstock as the Datum.
THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF THE SCRAPING! :whoohoo:
Apron....do I need to shim the rack down?....
Leadscrew hangers probably need to be lowered
Need to make a mandrel to check leadscrew alignment
Need to make shims to lower the hangers.
Finish the control box.
wire up the motor and control box
Get a motor belt if I don't have one already....
Mount the motor
Repair damaged paint
Inspect alignments as outlined in the lathe build sheet
Drink beer!
With that we mark completion of phase 2 of this project. A running lathe! The rest is rebuilding of tooling items, but I won't consider that part of this thread. This thread will end once she's running If there is interest in the tooling items...I'll post them in another thread
I know there is interest in the milling attachment rebuild...and I haven't forgotten...but it will be another thread
.....Make Wallaby parts.... ::)
............I don't THINK I missed anything....but I probably did!.. :wallbang:
Dave
-
Pictures, please?
-
Hey Mosey...here ya go.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-23_08-48-35_300.jpg)
In the headstock, is the test bar. It is a precision ground bar with a 3MT shank and a straight diameter. It is 9 inches long.
The object of the excersize is to have the end of the test bar pointing up and towards the front of the lathe by .0005"/12"
With a 9" test bar....thats .0003" up and too the front....which as close as I can measure is what I have right now.
A point of procedure here. To use the test bar...which has some run out at 9" as you can imagine (about .001" total), you rotate the spindle until you see the high point and the low point of the run out. Then rotate the spindle until you split the high and low. That is where you take your readings..without moving spindle. That's the ONLY way to get repeatable readings.
I got the 3MT test bar and a 2MT test bar for the tailstock from RDG tools LTD...so my long lost Brit cousins don't have to go very far to get these items.
The tailstock has a similar requirement, and to match the HS spindle height from 0 to +.002.
The Check of the height is to take one of these test bars...doesn't matter which, and mount it between centers, and then run a dial indicator along the top. The bar should go uphill by .002" max at the tailstock.
I've started the Tailstock...I'm scraping the base to match the way pretty well...I've attached a photo of in progress. Seems taking the photo with out the flash shows the marking better....still a little bit to do there.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-23_08-49-06_332.jpg)
Dave
-
Wow, Dave, love them pictures!!
Love your work.
-
Thanks Mosey...
More tomorrow.......Ill shoot to get the TS done.
Dave
-
Ooooooh! That is looking great Dave. What about the height of the tail stock to the headstock? Is this what you are scraping in? I know you are trying to get the tail stock level also.
Don
-
All the TS tasks....i hope
Ts clamp
based scraped to the ways
Base milled level and high
Scrape in the ts to height and alignment
That is a full days work!.....well see if can get that much time in the shop
Dave
-
OK Dave, I just ordered me a test bar. I need to know what is happening to my lathe. You persistence has me wanting to get mine right. And dog gone!I really don't know what I am doing, but I will try.
Don
-
Don
Check your PM...getting a lathe without twist is the KEY to getting a straight non tapered shaft.
Your lathe appears to be in good shape , and I really think it just needs a proper leveling...and at a mimimum...that is the first place to start.
Dave
-
And just to be clear...I absolutely think that modifications to a lathe should be the last thing you do if it's not performing well unless you exhaust all other avenues and have positively identified the source of the problem
....REALLY!
My SB was given to me...and it was completely clapped out but still had "good bones"......so I had nothing to loose by rebuilding it.
If I screwed up....I screwed up...I'm not out anything. My Logan is right there next to it.
I'm pleased with my progress...though I wish it had gone a bit faster...it was a real learning experience.
If you want to make your lathe run better....make sure you take the twist out of it and level it carefully with a good ACCURATE level.
Start there. If it still doesn't behave....be the detective...and keep searching for the truth...but don't cut anything...
Dave
-
OK
This morning I finished scraping the bottom of the TS base to the bed. Got nice bearing...remember this is a NEW base...that I machined for the solid to replace the one that was .018" low from wear. I had stock on this one and I needed to know how much needs to come off.
Here's the set up I was speaking about yesterday.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-24_08-55-45_31.jpg)
I put an indicator on the cross slide and zero'd it over the top of the bar which is held between centers.
I moved the cross slide back and forth until I got a maximum reading.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-24_09-00-23_690.jpg)
Now without moving the cross slide, slide the whole saddle towards the TS and note the difference in height, note it is about 21 thou high at the tailstock.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-24_09-00-36_100.jpg)
NOW ask yourself the question....is the bar parallel to the bed?.....I don't know....but lets find out. I know the bar is round and straight.
Very carefully, move the cross slide in and out and note the position of the maxima. Did the maxima reading get bigger?....OK now leave the cross slide at the maxima, and move the whole saddle back to the HS side where zero was. Did the indicator come back to zero?....if the bar is parallel to the lathe...it should. Im my case it did.
Next I took the tailstock off the base ,and noted how parallel the top of the base was to the ways. Its about .002 until it gets to a step on the front side where it jumps another .002 for a total of about .004
NOW I need to measure how square the mortise is to the axis of the ways. It should be good...but we know what happens with good intentions! If it needs to be squared up, my only approach is to turn it at the Vways.
Once I confirm the mortise is square to the bed ways, , I'll set up on the F1 to take most of the excess stock off....and then scrape the rest in.
Dave
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And Steve!
The tumbler gears on a SB come off VERY easy...the only thing holding them in is the index latch on mine, and the one (1) bolt on yours
For indexing I was going to use the spindle gear...but it's a bit worn and small in diameter...It's fine for cutting threads and such, but is a bit worn for indexing. But If you take the tumbler assembly off...about 3 seconds on my lathe...You can put an index ring of substantial size on the back of the spindle with what ever index you want....I'm going to use a ring with radial holes. I have an extra dividing head index latch that I'll press into service, and mount it on the post at the rear spindle bearing.
Dave
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Dave, question! I see you are using a live center on the tail stock with your test bar. I thought you were suppose to use you fixed center? Wouldn't you pick up errors with this?
Don
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Well you'd think Don....when I rotated the bar in the center..the runout error is less than .0002"...so it runs pretty well
The standard is 0-.002" high...so I think I can live with the error....but technically you are correct!
At the moment...I don't even have a MT2 Dead Center! :lolb:
All my lathe tooling is Logan...and is MT3 in the Tailstock.....it's on the shopping list........but I'm going carbide so I'm saving my sheckles....
Dave
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OK, so the standard is .002 high, does this mean the headstock is higher or the tail stock is higher?
Don
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The standard it 0.000 to 0.002" high at the tailstock end. this is standard Engine lathe specifications
A "Toolmakers lathe" ...generally a tighter specification...the lathe is held to 0.00 to 0.001" high at the tailstock end.
And don't get too wound up about it either....it seems lathes run just fine down to about .005" low on the TS end....
But NOT .018"! :lolb:
IF your fitting a NEW tailstock though...which essentially I am....you should chase the standard.
Dave
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Don I have a blank SouthBend lathe Test card. It lists all the alignment requirements.
I'll scan it sometime today...gotta bring my Son to the doctors first....Pesky cold virus is kicking his butt....
Dave
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Thanks Dave, I ordered the precision level today and the securing bolts to the base of my lathe look like just studs with a nut on top and bottom. I will take photos of my set up and email them to you. I use jacking bars that i made on the front and back to level it with. It's not the most stable way and you can rock it if you push on it.
Hope you son gets better, not the best time of the year to be sick, Christmas and all.
Don
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Had my Daughter inthe ER last year Christmas day...she had of all things POISON IVY!
We had a mild winter and she was playing at the edge of the woods and apparently found a patch.....even in December you can get it!
That was fun!...poor little girl
My son is fine....just a nasty cold....get more rest...lots of fluids....yada yada yada.....
Dave
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Thanks Dave, I ordered the precision level today and the securing bolts to the base of my lathe look like just studs with a nut on top and bottom. I will take photos of my set up and email them to you. I use jacking bars that i made on the front and back to level it with. It's not the most stable way and you can rock it if you push on it.
Hope you son gets better, not the best time of the year to be sick, Christmas and all.
Don
Good! Let me see those photo's ...I bet they're adjustable....do you need to move the base around?...can it stay in one place?
Dave
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The only reasoning to have it that way, well for instance attaching the DRO to it, changing the motor if required and getting behind it in general.
The base is adjustable yes, here's where I run into a problem. The lathe is attached to the base and the base is the cabinet. Now if I level the lathe, it is in a sense leveling the cabinet. Now how do I know that the lathe is actually level to the cabinet with out unbolting it from the cabinet then leveling the cabinet and securing it back to the cabinet.
Don
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The only thing that is important, is that the ways are level from front to back, all along their length. Cabinet can be any way you find it.
My SB is on a cabinet base also, and it has no provision for bolting down. You cannot get inside the cabinet base to attach it to the floor. So, I shim the cabinet until the lathe bed is level, and check it every couple of months. It stays quite level to within 1 division on the precision level bubble almost all year long, as it is on a concrete slab.
Mosey
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OK, this is the way I secure it and its not bolted to the floor. The one thing I need to do is weld my top jacking bracket to the cabinet base to make it more stable. So here are some photos of what I have.
The first photo a look at the cabinet, second photo how it is secured to top and next to the bottom of cabinet.
The fourth and fifth photo is my setup for jacking it off the casters.
Don
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Mosey is right...the only thing that matters is that the lathe bed not be twisted.....the base can anywhere it wants
Dave
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OK Dave & Mosey, I will give you the readings once I recieve my test bar and Level.
Thank You,
Don
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Don,
Here are a couple of pictures showing the level on the lathe bed. You also want it to be level at the Tailstock end of course. Please forgive the brass dandruff on my lathe.
Mosey
Sorry about those big photos, try these.
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Don,
Here are a couple of pictures showing the level on the lathe bed. You also want it to be level at the Tailstock end of course. Please forgive the brass dandruff on my lathe.
Mosey
Sorry about those big photos, try these.
YUP...top of the Vee's is the leveling surface on the SB....I suspect the flat ways of the Myford is what you will use Don.
Anywhere you put that level Don, the lathe should be level....
Dave
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Ho, Ho, Ho !!!
Dave and Don, and everyone else, Merry you know what.
Mosey
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OK Yesterday when I wasn't enjoying time aroud the tree....or cooking ...or
repairing completely making new RC helicopter landing gear ::)...or attempting to teach my kids the patience it takes to learn to fly said helicopters......I spent some time in the shop on the SB... I got the mortise squared up...I got the TS test bar point towards the front by .0007/9"....which is too much...but it's close and way closer than it was at about .002/ 2" ......I still need to lower the TS base by about .019"...and scrap it flat....ect....so I'll leave it there for the moment until I get closer...I'm in the ball park. The mortise fits tight and the base has good bearing...so that's the important thing.
I need to make and mount the set over block on the TS base so the setscrews have something to push against.
Dave
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Dave,
It would be appreciated if you would illustrate how you measure the alignment position of your TS. Do you use a bar?
What is the bar?
Where do you mount the Test Indicator?
What to do if it is low?
I'm just curious, as this would never apply to a machine I have. :ROFL: :old: :old:
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Will do Mosey...once I'm convinced I've finished it!.... I think I'm done with the tailstock...but wat a PITA that was!
She seems perfect one moment...and a complete mess another....I can't seem to figuire out why it's not repeating that well
At the moment it measures perfect...but ...I have the feeling I'll go out there in an hour and find her pointing down 3 feet or something....just to spite me....I'll have to think some more on it.....and it took me of the day to get to here!
Anyway...I know I'll poke at it some more this evening.....If I can go through the check 3 times in a row and get the same answers...I'll call it done...
Dave
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Oh I am so close....The TS is .001" high, which is the good news....I consider that perfect......the bad news is the quil is pointing low .0003"/9"....so I"m not quite done yet...but I am for tonight.....I can still get it .0003 pointing up and not lose the .001"...so tomorrow...when I'm fresh ...and if my arms hold out...
I did this test 3 times and I found the variable....make sure I clamp the tailstock down with the clamp....a quarter turn an its locked down tight.
I am really amazed at how tight everything is...when it's locked down...it doesn't move....at all!
I need to finish the lever lock tomorrow....
Another productive day in the shop....won't be long now....
Tomorrow I'll get some of the lathe work done....the parts for the lever lock, and the motor control panel...as well as some milling on that panel....I need to put Norm to work before he leaves!
Dave
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Mosey,
This is the set up for measuring the height of the tailstock relative to the heastock
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-24_08-55-45_31.jpg)
The bar in this case is held between centers, and the dial indicator is then centered over the bar. Traversing the carraige over the bed measures the height of the TS relative to the HS.....The Tailstock should be 0.00 - .002" HIGH..with a new tailstock.
Dave
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and that bar is uniform in diameter from end to end, of course?
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Yes Mosey it is....except for the Morse taper section on the far left hand end.....but I'm not using that.
Dave
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Why should the tail stock be high? I apologize if this was already explained.
Lee
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No worries Lee,
They are usually set slightly high to allow for wear of the Tailstock base. The standard is"
Standard Engine Lathe: 0.0000 to .002" high
Toolmakers Lathe: 0.0000 to .001" high
As a point of comparison....the Tailstock base on this lathe (60 years old) had worn .018" low when I got it .
Typically, Toolmakers lathes are used in the toolroom....by well....toolmakers!
They are expected to be more carefully used...and kept clean...and when they do wear they are usually put into the general population as plain old Engine lathes, .....and a new Toolmakers lathe is bought to replace it....
Dave
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No work today...Had some snow to move....and my arm hurts enough already....tomorrow.
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Dave when you measure the headstock, do you stick the MT end into it without support from the tail stock? And do you check you chuck run out without support from the tail stock?
Don
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Hey Don,
There are 3 set ups for alignment checks of the HS, and TS.
HS alignment relative to the ways UP and toward the FRONT by 0.000 - .0005"
TS alignment relative to the ways. UP and toward the FRONT by 0.000 - .0005"
TS height relative to the HS TS 0.000 - 0.002" high at the end of the TS spindle
To check the HS alignment to the ways, the 3MT arbor is put into the HS taper. It is not supported at the TS end. It needs to be rigid enough that droop due to it's own weight is minimal.
To check the TS alignment to the ways, the 2MT arbor is put into the TS taper. It is not supported at the HS end. It needs to be rigid enough that droop due to it's own weight is minimal.
To check the TS height relative to the HS A straight test bar is held between centers of the HS and the TS.
We need to check the various arbors need to be checked to make sure they are very straight
Lot's of set up....but that's the way its done.
Dave
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Thanks Dave, the test bar I ordered has MT2 taper on one end. Both my head stock and tail stock are MT2. That should work out OK.
Don
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So this is where all you guys are... Took me a while to find ya...
I see that all's progressed tremendously since last August, Dave... I am envious...
More very soon,
take care,
tom in MA.
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Good to hear from ya Tom! I trust the new job is treating you well?
The old girl is going together though it seems not without a fight ....but I'm getting there!
Put a post in the introduction section....it's the same drill as the "other place"... ;D
Welcome!
Dave
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Put a post in the introduction section....it's the same drill as the "other place"... ;D
on it! Done.
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Dave,
can i pick your brain on shipping options between MA and IL? If you do not care to state in public -- can you PM or email me?
Much appreciated
-
See your PM
Dave
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So Dave,
you write that you checked the headstock bearings... And I wonder, exactly how do you do that? I have a selfish reason for asking, I want to do the same...
I am thinking the following, after tightening the nut on the left of the thrust bearing...
1. load-free runout of the clean spindle taper less than 0.0002" (I will edit this number later -- I get less than 0.0001" on my Sherline - I have Connelly downstairs).
2. putting 25 pounds of radial load moves the indicator less than 0.001" (I think I remember this in an SB book).
3. when it runs at high speed for 15 mins both bearings are cool comfortable to the touch.
4. When I took the spindle apart, on visual inspection they were all polished and shiny, but this does not tell much...
Any comments or thoughts?
-
Ahh ...Life is a Journey right?
I finally tracked down my "non repeatability" issue....
It goes all the way back to the beginning of this journey.....and the problem is .....ME.
I checked the OD of the TS quill way back then, and I found a couple of tenths wear...considering it was 60 years old....fine I said.
I just carried on
What I "SHOULD " have done was check the bore of the TS.
What I found that the front of the bore is bell mouthed by about 4 thou!....When I clamp it up...it seemed to clamp up fine!
Well....it isn't fine.... it moves..and doesn't repeat...which is why I've been chasing my tail for a day and a half.
It isn't really bad....but it isn't good either. And considering how much work I've put into this ...i've come this far right?
SO A new adventure begins! I need to refurbish the bore....either I'll be honing it or reboring and lapping it. Then I'll have to make a new oversize quill to fit. Lastly, I'll need to rescrape the TS ...and the HS to match each other .....again..... ::) :wallbang:
So much for schedules....
COR
Dave
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So Dave,
you write that you checked the headstock bearings... And I wonder, exactly how do you do that? I have a selfish reason for asking, I want to do the same...
I am thinking the following, after tightening the nut on the left of the thrust bearing...
1. load-free runout of the clean spindle taper less than 0.0002" (I will edit this number later -- I get less than 0.0001" on my Sherline - I have Connelly downstairs).
2. putting 25 pounds of radial load moves the indicator less than 0.001" (I think I remember this in an SB book).
3. when it runs at high speed for 15 mins both bearings are cool comfortable to the touch.
4. When I took the spindle apart, on visual inspection they were all polished and shiny, but this does not tell much...
Any comments or thoughts?
What you describe is accurate Tom. See attached.
http://www.wswells.com/data/howto/Spindle_Bearing_Adj_9_10k.pdf
I tore the HS down and check the bearings for scoring as well as the bearings....they appeared perfect....so I reassembled them
Recently, when I scraped in the HS....I checked the bearing clearances...they're perfect....so in 60 years there was NO wear of the spindle bearings.....Says something about the basic design doesn't it.
Dave
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Well all I can say Dave is that you found you problem. Making a new quill is a minor problem after all you have done to it. Having to scrape it again would put a stitch in my side. Well done buddy....well done.
Don
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Thanks Don....but I wish I found it two days ago....
Oh well......
I'm formulating a plan for fixing it, and minimizing my work....Let me do that an I'll share.
Dave
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Alright....drop back 10 and punt....
The key thing here is to get a well fitting quill inside a TS housing ultimately inline with the HS.
The Leadscrew alignment must be maintained which includes the rear bearing nut. Additionally...it would be nice if I don't have to take down both the HS and the TS...but I suspect that will happen...but I'd like to minimize that...
So I think I'm going to do the following:
Set the TS housing up on the lathe for boring...
I don't know if it will be on the cross slide...as I don't think the cross slide is that parallel ...I suspect I'll do it on the faceplate of the Logan...as I think it will fit there with an angle iron...and the squareness with that hardware is more ..."Likely"
I am trying to figuire out how to determine the "true" bore....so I may bore it from the back side so as to sweep in off the least worn section of the bore...near the thrust bearing.
From there I'll probably ...to save some money....make up a lap and lap the bore straight and true....
Once that is done and confirmed....I'll make up a set of plug gages to nail down the diameter of the bore...and then use those to turn the OD of the new quill
Tentitively...
Rough Turn the OD I may start with 1144sp turned ground polished....thereby skipping this step.
Drill out the center bore...rough out the taper and nut seating.
Finish the OD to size plus finish allowance.
Finish turn the taper....finish the taper with a MT2 finish reamer.
Part off from mother stock
Cut the key way.
Mark the scale markings....NUMBERS?
Lap to final OD
The work needs to be done...and I wish I found this sooner.....
but it is what it is.....
COR
Dave
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So if the damage is only at the mouth of the TS why not try to rebore only that part to a wider diameter and sleeve it to use the original quill? I believe Bogs has done such a repair successfully in the past - but I may have imagined it.
Obviously a non trivial attempt.
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Well Tom....that is worth checking....the only problem is that the SB tailstock body is of the split type. So the bushing would have to be split as well. You can get away with a bushing if your using a split cotter quite easily...
As it is, the housing is kinda thin...so I don't really want to take any more stock out than I need to.
I may only take like .010" out to clean up....
Dave
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Set the TS housing up on the lathe for boring...
I don't know if it will be on the cross slide...as I don't think the cross slide is that parallel ...I suspect I'll do it on the faceplate of the Logan...as I think it will fit there with an angle iron...and the squareness with that hardware is more ..."Likely"
I am trying to figuire out how to determine the "true" bore....so I may bore it from the back side so as to sweep in off the least worn section of the bore...near the thrust bearing.
Hi Dave
There's lots of real gems hidden away in this thread, Thanks
I've been contemplating your challenge here and I may be way off, but it seams to me that, if you have already scraped the TS to be true with the HS. then you could set up a boring bar to run true between the HS and a fixed steady, you could use the cross slide to push/pull the TS along the bed while lightly clamped. :thinking:
surely the bore machined this way, must be in line with the bed?? or could this method introduce all sorts of problems/errors I haven't thought of ? :shrug:
Bez
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I've been contemplating your challenge here and I may be way off, but it seams to me that, if you have already scraped the TS to be true with the HS. then you could set up a boring bar to run true between the HS and a fixed steady, you could use the cross slide to push/pull the TS along the bed while lightly clamped. :thinking:
surely the bore machined this way, must be in line with the bed?? or could this method introduce all sorts of problems/errors I haven't thought of ? :shrug:
This line boring would work, me thinks. Though I think that the boring bar should be between centers (axial loads will appear), and the steady rest (if that's what you imply) cannot handle them. You need an adjustable tailstock `replacement'...
I don't know if it will be on the cross slide...as I don't think the cross slide is that parallel ...I suspect I'll do it on the faceplate of the Logan...as I think it will fit there with an angle iron...and the squareness with that hardware is more ..."Likely"
If you are still considering the bushing way, you can always pick the bore up deeper, if you set it up on the Logan, not at the mouth. Me thinks that your BestTest can fit almost 1.5-2.0" in that wide bore... I would hope that part is the true bore...
Now... I saw in my dream that the distal part of your TS bore had a point-symmetric bell and that you found out after a bushing was fit... Dunno Dave, with you TS starring in me dreams and all...
:shrug:
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... I saw in my dream that the distal part of your TS bore had a point-symmetric bell and that you found out after a bushing was fit... Dunno Dave, with you TS starring in me dreams and all..."
:hellno: Disturbing Tom....Very Disturbing.... 8)
I have watched it done on the lathe that it belongs to. Leting the TS be pushed along by the saddle. The boring bar held with a steady. But the TS in that incidence weighed 200 pounds, and was held down with beleville spring washers and a specially made clamp.....I'm thinking the 9 TS is so light that it's bound to chatter
More to think about.....but not for long...pretty soon here I'm going to pick a route and go!
Even if I end up with the TS low, and I need to rescrape the HS...I need to knock this problem down and kill it. I have a whole world of disruption with the new mill coming in and the old mill going out....and I need to be through this by then....next 3-4 weeks....by then the NEW project at work will also be in full song...and I know what that means......
Dave
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I have a whole world of disruption with the new mill coming in and the old mill going out....and I need to be through this by then....next 3-4 weeks....by then the NEW project at work will also be in full song...and I know what that means......
Are you getting rid of the Aciera? Or Norm? and ... who is the replacement?
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Norm is going to a new Home in PA. I've got a Clausing 8520 waiting in the wings.....in the next 2-3 weeks...it all happens
Pandemonium!
Norm is a fairly sizeable mill, so getting him out of the ensconced position at the opposite end of the shop from the door is going to be a challenge!
In his place will be the Clausing and the Aciera...with room to spare!....then the reorg happens... ::)
The Logan moves down towards the door about 2 feet
The SB goes where the Logan and the Aciera were.
ALL the grinding stuff goes on a yet to be built mobile cart for carting outside for the real dirty stuff.....The shop vac will go in the bottom of this cart for the tool grinder use in the shop.
Like I said....I need to find a good stoping point for the SB...as this will probably span a 2 or 3 weekends of fun.
Dave
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Dave, I'm wowed with what you are doing! I'm also concerned about the final refurbishment of the SB, so I've shipped my SB tailstock to you so you can recondition it as a warmup for yours. Thanks a million.
Keep up the good work.
Mosey
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There you go Dave........ Mosey Just solved the tailstock shortage :Lol:
I've been contemplating your challenge here and I may be way off, but it seams to me that, if you have already scraped the TS to be true with the HS. then you could set up a boring bar to run true between the HS and a fixed steady, you could use the cross slide to push/pull the TS along the bed while lightly clamped. :thinking:
surely the bore machined this way, must be in line with the bed?? or could this method introduce all sorts of problems/errors I haven't thought of ? :shrug:
This line boring would work, me thinks. Though I think that the boring bar should be between centers (axial loads will appear), and the steady rest (if that's what you imply) cannot handle them. You need an adjustable tailstock `replacement'...
<<Snip :shrug:
Thanks Tom
Yes! that is exactly what I was thinking. :D
I haven't had to do anything like that yet, so its good to hear my logic is not too defective.
I opted for a rather more generic description, which you rightly point out, does appear to ignore the axial forces.
Bez
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Dave, I'm wowed with what you are doing! I'm also concerned about the final refurbishment of the SB, so I've shipped my SB tailstock to you so you can recondition it as a warmup for yours. Thanks a million.
Keep up the good work.
Mosey
Thanks for the praise Mosey...but I'd be far more Wowed if I had taken care of this first! :wallbang: :zap:.....doing it now makes it more difficult
Thanks for the interest guys....it helps! :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
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There you go Dave........ Mosey Just solved the tailstock shortage :Lol:
I've been contemplating your challenge here and I may be way off, but it seams to me that, if you have already scraped the TS to be true with the HS. then you could set up a boring bar to run true between the HS and a fixed steady, you could use the cross slide to push/pull the TS along the bed while lightly clamped. :thinking:
surely the bore machined this way, must be in line with the bed?? or could this method introduce all sorts of problems/errors I haven't thought of ? :shrug:
This line boring would work, me thinks. Though I think that the boring bar should be between centers (axial loads will appear), and the steady rest (if that's what you imply) cannot handle them. You need an adjustable tailstock `replacement'...
<<Snip :shrug:
Thanks Tom
Yes! that is exactly what I was thinking. :D
I haven't had to do anything like that yet, so its good to hear my logic is not too defective.
I opted for a rather more generic description, which you rightly point out, does appear to ignore the axial forces.
Bez
Hi Bez
Read my previous post....its been done, but on a much larger lathe....I'm about the axial forces...as the saddle can just push it along...I am concerned about about the vertical forces...as I don't have an easy way to keep this thing down tight against the ways...I think its not heavy enough too and will need all the rigidity it can get to keep from chattering......I have a detailed plan brewing....I'll post it once I get it all sorted out.....
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OK typical of me...I'm going "OLD SCHOOL"
I have a plan...and I'll work the plan
I'm going to faceplate bore the housing on the Logan centered on the current leadscrew location +.002"
Rebore to about .010" over and then make a new quill. I think the tailstock leadscrew will work just fine off by .002" and it will give me a bit of scraping stock to play with.
I'm making toolmaker buttons that locate on the existing clamped bore to pick up the average worn surface which hell works just fine now doesn't it? So I should be close to being exactly on center.
The housing will be bolted to a sizeable precision angle plate...which is quite good geometry wise...then trammed in. I'll be putting some jack screws on the faceplate to make this easier as its a bit of iron on there! Just take it slow and steady.
That should get me pretty close...the scraper will do the rest.
The quill will be 1144SP as it machines well and has just about eqaul properties to 4150....just not as hard on my tools!
I'm taking this route as I've done this stuff before and I'm 90% confident I'll get what I want.....and I try to abide by the 11th commandment....thou shalt not kid thyself! ...thou why I want to pick up a scraper ...I can't quite explain... 8)
Dave
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:pics:
Jo
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Jo for President! You go girl.
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Scraping Q pour ma education:
1) How many passes does it take you to get the master to those insane points per sq inch (which I spy to be 30-40 min) assuming that you start from a machined surface that is flat within 0.004" (given Norm's table bump)? 30? 50?
I have spent 5 hours this morning while at the finescraping stage of a smaller prism master. And I guess that I need at least 10 passes more to remove scratches from rough scraping, and make the points flow better...
2) How long does it take you per pass of fine scraping? It takes me 20 mins for a 1.5 x 10 surface... Does it mean I am pin pointing prematurely?
thanks in advance.
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Took me about 2 or 3 days for a small master.....and I never counted...I stoped when I couldnt make it any better than it was
I would say its impossible to say.....keep at it and tell me!
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I'll take a photo of my notebook Jo.....its got sketches
Dave
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sketches as promised
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2012-12-29_16-27-21_240.jpg)
Dave
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Dave,
As previously mentioned, I repaired the nose of my Atlas 10F by inserting a bush.
Lots of people tried to get me to bore the tailstock by clamping it to the saddle and use a boring head in the headstock. Then move the saddle to give the boring movement.
I shied away from that because even if you put heavy weights on top of the TS whilst boring, it would first not be rigid enough and secondly the nose of the tailstock would be sitting too high because it wasn't clamped down.
I eventually took measurements off the spindle and clamped everything up on an angle plate on the mill to do the boring.
The TS nose ended up only 0.0002" high, so I left it at that, knowing that over the years, it could only get better, plus after 70 years of wear, before I began, it had a 'droop' on it of over 0.010" with the TS spindle about 2" to 3" out of the casting.
I could send you to the post, but there would be no photos with it, but if you were interested, I could resurrect it on here with pictures. If not it doesn't matter. Everyone has their own way of doing things.
John
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John I wish you would post it. I am interested in how you went about doing it. Any lesson learned is a lesson earned and I would like to benefit from it.
Don
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Thanks for that John,
I've seen it done the other way...but the TS was a big one...about 200 pounds...and even with 100 pounds of lead shot on top of it during the boring job and it still chattered...though he got by after he lapped it.
Additionally, the drag it along method at best puts the TS directly on center...though not a bad thing...it doesn't allow for wear before it goes low...now considering how long our machines run...that may not matter...but...
I'll be doing exactly as you outline ( see previous post). And PLEASE DO POST! One of the blessings of having a much larger lathe around when your rebuilding the smaller one is it can be pressed into the rescue mission!
As I remember from my 10F...It has a split cotter clamp for the tailstock quill....The SB has just a split housing.
Additionally. I think the SB housing is kinda thin
So from that perspective....I'm going to minimally bore it through...and lap it with SiC lapping compound and a home made lap.
Measure the bore, and make up a plug gage to match to a snug fit
Make up a new quill ( I've come this far...MAKE IT RIGHT) and then lap the quill to match with SiC lapping compound and a home made lap
I'll use SiC as it breaks down during the process and doesn't bed.
The annoying part is the nut is pinned into the stock quill...not sure I can get that out...so I may need to make a new one...
Thanks John.....
Dave
PS on edit.... I don't have a mill with a quill...additionally I don't have vertical power feed on the one I do have....so I'll be doing it on the lathe...I think with the tools I have ...it's my best chance at success.
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And just to be clear...the knee will be mounted, in my case, to the faceplate....not the cross slide......
Balanced and turned slow in back gear...it'll be alright...though not for meek! 8)
Dave
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Dave, it just occurred to me... How about lining the tailstock base lower surface with turcite? Will give you height to scrape without need to mess withe the headstock that is already aligned... I understand turcite is scrapable...
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Interesting! hadn't thought of that....but I will think about it a bit.
My focus this past week has been on my health....the flu...spent a few hours at the clinic figuiring out what was going on but I seem to be on the mend....but I am NEVER out 3 days from work...no pleasant.
Getting Norm out and getting ready for the new mill....have been a focus of the shop....but I have some ideas of what I'll be doing.
If my current plan for the tailstock works out...I won't have to rescrape the HS....just touch up the tailstock.
But....if it doesn't pan out....I'll think about it.... But ...I took the HS down .002 easy enough in a day.....so I suspect I can do it again if I had to.
Dave
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Sounds very interesting Dave. How are you going to go about putting the acme thread in the new spindle? I guess you'll just buy a suitable tap? Will you leave the thread at the back (for the nut that secures the feed screw) untouched?
If you work out how to pull the key out please show me. I should replace my worn one but have been too lazy.
Steve
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P.S. hope you feel better soon
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Dave,
As previously mentioned, I repaired the nose of my Atlas 10F by inserting a bush.
Lots of people tried to get me to bore the tailstock by clamping it to the saddle and use a boring head in the headstock. Then move the saddle to give the boring movement.
I shied away from that because even if you put heavy weights on top of the TS whilst boring, it would first not be rigid enough and secondly the nose of the tailstock would be sitting too high because it wasn't clamped down.
I eventually took measurements off the spindle and clamped everything up on an angle plate on the mill to do the boring.
The TS nose ended up only 0.0002" high, so I left it at that, knowing that over the years, it could only get better, plus after 70 years of wear, before I began, it had a 'droop' on it of over 0.010" with the TS spindle about 2" to 3" out of the casting.
I could send you to the post, but there would be no photos with it, but if you were interested, I could resurrect it on here with pictures. If not it doesn't matter. Everyone has their own way of doing things.
John
I know my first post should no doubt be in the introduction thread... please forgive me but the deal is that it was trying to figure out what happened to the original post on that other site that got me here --I eventually managed to figure it out and that's probably enough said about that (except maybe that agree with your decision, and now look what good came of it --this is a very nice site!).
But when I returned to a bookmark that I'd planned to one day try to duplicate... I was disappointed, to say the least (and, of course it wasn't the only one of your posts that I have bookmarked for that very same reason), so long story short, here I am asking "Yes, please, do resurrect it on here with pictures." (for that matter any of your old threads would be welcome --I have a list, if that would help).
While getting you to do this 'yesterday, or sooner' would be nice, I'll really understand the pressures on your time and personal life, so it's really just "If you would, when you can, please."
But then I also have a list of other people that will soon be new members here, who will also be requesting this --a sort of "What happened, lets form a sorta 'find Bogstandard' group... I just happened to be the one of us that found you first, is all. And what a find, not just you in the hopes of regaining some terrific posts you have done in the past, but a great forum with a whole lot of nicks that us "lurking wanna learn" guy's recognize from other places. The whole result of tracking you down has proven to be even better --a forum of solid gold all around.
I hope to add what ever small value I can --even though compared to what and who is already on this forum i suspect it's somewhat presumptuous of me to think I have anything to offer --I'll try but I'm positive I'll always be getting more out then I can put in.
Thanks for reading this and please do re post with pictures, it would really mean quite a lot to at least a fair number of us.
Zero.
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Dave, it just occurred to me... How about lining the tailstock base lower surface with turcite? Will give you height to scrape without need to mess withe the headstock that is already aligned... I understand turcite is scrapable...
To close the loop, the above proposal is not a good solution. I read that it is not recommended to put turcite on the tailstock base, because unless you clamp it down very hard, it *will* move (the friction coefficient is quite low).
take care,
tom
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Would someone please comment on the idea of shimming the TS with brass shim? I bet this has been done once or twice.
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Mosey,
That is a very common approach to dealing with a worn machine and is done all the time. But not usually during a rebuild.
Dave
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Boy, I slid that one in without too much embarrassment!
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How's it coming buddy making any progress.
Don
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You mean Dave's progress, right?
Is that anywhere near Gulfport?
Mosey
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Hi Guys,
Mosey....not a bad question at all bud...no worries
Don....slow. Got some personal matters that have my attention at the moment. Not serious I think...just persistant,.. So I'm not going to be too active for a few days.
Hang in....I am...
Dave
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Well A little got done this past weekend! I started scraping in the Milling attachement.
It is a RDG Chinese clone of a Myford vertical slide.....I spotted the table "T slotted" surface and found it wasn't in fact flat....I know this is not really a surprise...it wasn't to me either.
Though it wasn't particularly bad either....like maybe out about .001"....so not the end of the world... It came in pretty quickly.
The bottom shows evidence that the gib screw holes were tapped after it was flat ways were ground...leaving little humps where the screws are.
I'll take some pictures .....as I promised to do a blow by blow of this "redo".....I'll start a thread on it.
I needed a topic for this past weekends NEMES show...and this was in the draw waiting for me. As to the tailstock and the rest of it...not much has happened since the big Mill move.
I'm trying to recover from that ....then I can get on with it.....
Dave
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Looking back at page 1....I've completed a lot here!
T slotted cross slide
tool post mounted drill spindle
tool post mounted milling spindle
Milling attachment
indexing head for the spindle
Steel base
3 jaw
faceplates
steadies
drill chucks
full collets
and QCTP.
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OK...the plan this weekend....get some order in the shop....and send Mosey the motor I promised him!....some time ago! :facepalm2: :embarassed:
I need to get the SB in place next to the Logan, and the Aciera on the other side where she belongs...that will open up the center isle way.
It will still be a cluttered mess....just less so... ::)
Dave
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;D No problem on this end! :Love:
Mosey
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Dave I am trying to move stuff around as well. Trying to organize all of the machines, parts and junk while building the workbenches, storage shelves and such without damaging the projects (couple of old VWs). Getting better. I like the way you put it because that describes my situation perfectly. Keep up the good work and the posts
It will still be a cluttered mess....just less so... ::)
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OK...the plan this weekend....get some order in the shop....and send Mosey the motor I promised him!....some time ago! :facepalm2: :embarassed:
I need to get the SB in place next to the Logan, and the Aciera on the other side where she belongs...that will open up the center isle way.
It will still be a cluttered mess....just less so... ::)
Dave
Well it about time!........ :lolb: I will be waiting for the results.
Don
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Thanks RMO and Don.....it's coming....
Dave
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I did some motor control box work this past weekend. I'll post in a bit, but I've been busy getting the shop put back together.
The SB has a new home in the shop...and I like it a lot.
Dave
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I finished the motor speed control face plate, and now it needs painting. I'm going to mount it as a pedalstil to the right of the countershaft, it will have a speed rheostat....a forward/reverse/off switch, and a Tach...it's an analog gage with 3 scales...1 for each belt combination on the countershaft...so continuous variable speed with 3 speed ranges....and I'm sure quite a bit of overlap.
I'll see how all that works out...if it works as I hope it will, I'll make a new scale for the meter....
Thanks for setting me up Don!....it won't be long now before it's running.
Dave
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I finished the motor speed control face plate, and now it needs painting. I'm going to mount it as a pedalstil to the right of the countershaft, it will have a speed rheostat....a forward/reverse/off switch, and a Tach...it's an analog gage with 3 scales...1 for each belt combination on the countershaft...so continuous variable speed with 3 speed ranges....and I'm sure quite a bit of overlap.
I'll see how all that works out...if it works as I hope it will, I'll make a new scale for the meter....
Thanks for setting me up Don!....it won't be long now before it's running.
Dave
You are quiet welcome Dave and I appreciate all the help you have given me. But a few photos would help the craving there buddy.
Don
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I was going to wait until I painted it Don....I'll see what I can do tonight.
Dave
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Well, slap a coat on that thang and let's get her rolling. We're like expectant fathers in a waiting room here. :lolb: :lolb:
Yo Redneck
Eric
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OK box and faceplate is painted.....
I dropped the tach in place...the speed control comes underneath that and then the directional/on/off switch.
It will be mounted vertically on a pipe mounted to the top of the cabinet.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-03-23_21-19-39_282_zpsf46f98da.jpg)
Dave
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Dave you seem to be multi tasking buddy, but she seems to be shaping up. I like what you have done to the controls.
Don
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Hey there!
Not a lot to report...I've been getting aquainted with my Clausing as of late....but I am progressing somewhat
The overhead drive for the TP drilling attachment, has been troubling me...I want to put the motor drive for it at the back of the lathe, but I also want to put the lathe control box there.....and I think there the control box MUST go...so what to do with the drive?
I figuired I could put it on the cross slide. So I bagged this on the bay a couple of weeks ago...it's the overhead drive for a Watchmakers lathe.
I am going to rivit a T nut on it with a knob so it drops into one of the T slots,,,and I have a 1/10 HP motor that would be perfect to go with it.....be patient...it's coming.
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As a reminder....this is the drive concept I'm trying to copy...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Auxillarydriveconcept2_zpsb61abc5d.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Auxillarydriveconcept2_zpsb61abc5d.jpg.html)
The base of which will anchor to the cross slide T slot.
Dave
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Hey Steve!
You thinking what I'm thinking?
Now you see the tumbler gears
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-36-47_549_zps10e63002.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-36-47_549_zps10e63002.jpg.html)
Now you see a spot to put a dividing attachment?...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-37-01_297_zps52dab6ce.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-37-01_297_zps52dab6ce.jpg.html)
Dave
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OK....going to take a look at boring the tailstock. I've put it off long enough...I want to get this beast done!
I'm still ambivilant as to which way I'll go about boring it...though between centers is now the very attractive....but considering my tooling, I still feel more confident in a face plate mount and a slow speed.
But regardless...I need to get it done.....I'm going to measure what I have....and we can see what we can do about it.
Dave
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OK
Has anybody fitted the fiberglass belt guard that goes over the spindle?......How well does it work?
Dave
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Dave,
I just sold one on Ebay, because I consider it less than junk. Do what you will, but be informed. I am still looking for a cast one that fits my HS. I think they were a late retrofit for OSHA purposes.
Mosey
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Yea I know Mosey....but I'm really worried about my son putting his hand in the bite by accident..... :zap:
I need to guard it.
Dave
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You could make one from sheet alum. to keep him from leaning his left elbow on the bull gear like I do!. I have a bunch of shirts with a nice set of black grease prints on the left upper sleeve from that. My wife says :ThumbsDown: :shrug: :zap: :killcomputer: :hammerbash: :Director: :Director:
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I've been putting off dealing with the Tailstock issues as of well...6 months...anyway.
Inspired by Ramons tutorial...I think I'm going to lap the bore straight and round.
I'll post a plan in a bit.
Dave
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Dave it has been a while, have you connected the motor and have it running yet? I am also curious as to how you go about doing this.
Don
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Don, I think Dave is turning this into a "Congressional" build. He keeps planning and re planning and then there is indecision, more planning, plans postponed, review, re plan, work started, work halted. I think we are just gonna have to set up a picket line across his drive and barricade him in till he's got it finished. Poor son of his is gonna be married off and gone for he ever gets to turn a thang on the SB. Well, it's the end of my work week and if any of you take any of this seriously, I've got some ocean front property right here in Tennessee for sale. Keep after it pal. :lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
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Im on it guys......and yes i am ignoring you :LittleDevil:
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keep at it dave you will get there :cheers:
chuck
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Dave,
I'm still watching, don't be rushed. At the same time don't fall in to the planning trap. We're with you buddy.
Best Regards
Bob
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So are you thinking of making a new oversize tailstock spindle Dave? If this works well I may have to follow you. Anyway take your time and relax, no pressure
Steve
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Ok
I bored the housing with the housing mounted on a knee on the lathe saddle
I bored it. 0055 over......as best I can measure 1.068.
The bore seems nice!
I then roughed out the new spindle. 011 oversize.
Then the third time I cut the plug hage undersize I decided to call it a night.
So a good productive night.
When i have access to the lap top Ill post some pictures.
Dave
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I'm still watching, don't be rushed.
:ROFL: I don't think we can accuse Dave of rushing this rebuild. Maybe we should start a sweep stake on when it will make its first bit of swarf :naughty:
Yes please to the photo's ;)
Jo
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I'm still watching, don't be rushed.
:ROFL: I don't think we can accuse Dave of rushing this rebuild. Maybe we should start a sweep stake on when it will make its first bit of swarf :naughty:
Yes please to the photo's ;)
Jo
Only if I get a piece of the action!
Dave
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OK here's some pictures...
Set up on the lathe for boring. I first had to take the quill pin out, which on this lathe, is a 5/16 diameter pin inserted on a 45 degree angle and the end machined appropriately....clever bit of design there.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-18_19-45-24_259_zps4777fef3.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-18_19-45-24_259_zps4777fef3.jpg.html)
The boring bar is the same on I used on the countershaft bearing with my boring table, and the addition of a angle plate, as I don't have the vertical clearance to do it otherwise.
I grabbed the spindle between centers, and then clamped to the knee, and the saddle boring table...and locked down. I am sure this is not "correct" but I'm done being "correct"...it needs to get done. I'll scrape it back into alignment.
OK...now that I had it set up, I dialed the saddle back .002"...this will increase the spindle height by .002"....which will be scraping stock. The feedscrew bearing is just a cast iron one, and with at least .008" worth of clearance, it won't mind being offset a little bit.
I set the quill clamp to the "clamped" position for the boring operation.
I then started roughing out the spindle. I incised it to length, and the turned it undersize. I am making it from a piece of 1144 stress proof.. It's .011 oversize. I left a chucking stub on the tail end. The next step with the blank is to mount it in my steadyrest, and then drill and ream for the morse taper 2. Then I'll flip it and bore for the feedscrew. Instead of cutting the acme...which is ODD sized of course...or single pointing it...which I've done with small ACME's before...and is tedious...Im going to cheat. I'll part out the nut from the old one, and loctite in place on the back of the new one.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-18_21-57-10_133_zps038a8ca1.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-18_21-57-10_133_zps038a8ca1.jpg.html)
But...before we finish it...I need to check the boring job. I measured it with a telescopic gage, and as far as I can tell...it cleaned up nice and true...one end to the other. Good!....I'm still making a set of plug gages to check it. 3 .001 under. On size, and .001 over.
I intend to run a lap through the tailstock to improve roundness and finish.
The last thing is to finish turn the spindle to a lap allowance size...say plus .001..while on centers. Then lap to size with an OD lap.
Get it )(@((*@ done!
Dave
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There was enough oil smoke in the shop to fog my phone up...I'll take some better pictures...
Dave
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Super work!
Don't pay attention to those freeloaders who want a piece of the glory. Keep turning.
Mosey
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Don,
No I haven't powered up the motor yet. It's getting close though!
Let me get the HS/TS system finished up first....The HS may be going on and off a few times before then....depending how things go with the TS. Since I don't have a quil for it that fits yet...I won't know till I do...some checking suggests the TS bore is pointing up hill no about .002 in 3 inches...so I'll have some scraping to do..but I don't know yet if i'll need to bring the HS down to match till I do.
With the endless belt...I don't want to mess with the motor yet as I may have to take it all apart to scrape. Though I may get the motor running seperately to prove it out.
Dave
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Got the MT 2 in!
At the end of the 12" test bar it has less than .001" runout!
Im a bit chuffed with that!
Now I can put in the nut. Maybe later tonight
Then some gages to make. And some laps
Dave
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Impressive runout figure, great work. You'll sure enjoy using this when its finished, with very good reason.
Hugh.
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Sounds good Dave, keep at it bud you will get there. Look like you are close to you mark here with that run out.
Don
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Thanks guys
The trick is to rough bore the taper to near size and then finish it with the reamer.
The reamer always follows the hole.
Dave
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Here's some photo's from today.
Here's the new embryonic spindle next to the old one.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_14-43-42_771_zps4c8a29c0.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_14-43-42_771_zps4c8a29c0.jpg.html)
Here's the spindle right after I finished putting the taper in...there's the reamer,
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_17-39-25_905_zps13243117.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_17-39-25_905_zps13243117.jpg.html)
You'll notice I have the compound set over to rough out the bore with a boring bar. The trick to that is getting the cutting edge EXACTLY on center....otherwise you taper will not be accurate...though it's more important for it to have as little run-out as possible....the reamer will correct the angular error.
And with the test bar in place. The high points are marked and are all in line
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_17-49-19_971_zps1f22401c.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_17-49-19_971_zps1f22401c.jpg.html)
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I'm watching carefully Dave and with good reason. My tailstock barrel is a little loose and I want to do something similar. I think I'll be able to get away with just lapping my tailstock bore. Love the idea of recycling the old Acme thread!
Re. the key pin, was it just a matter of driving it through with a pin punch to get it out? I need to replace mine, it's too loose and I've long been too lazy to work out how to remove it :embarassed:
Great progress, you're coming home with a wet sail now :DrinkPint:
Cheers
Steve
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Hey Steve,
Yup...just a few taps with a punch and a hammer after removing the quill, and out it came, you can cut the pin back and machine it again to fit better I am sure. The pin is underneath the front of the housing pointing up and back at a 45 degree angle...it's filed flush with the casting..but poke around...it's right there where the little rib is....
It's just a 5/16" diameter steel pin...and it's soft...so reworking it would be easy.
Dave
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Thanks Dave - I haven't got much room to make more excuses for not fixing that pin up now :Lol:
Steve
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Steve,
I'm always hesitant to advise someone to start into a lathe fix.....it can be an ordeal...and after the quill is done...it ain't over...and I'll have some scraping to do possibly on the HEADSTOCK too!.......you need test bars..indicators...a good level...ect.
Beware!....
If the bore is only slightly out...lapping it and making a new quil might just do the trick...but if your going to have to bore it....you'll be scraping it....pretty much count on it.
Dave
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And if you go back to page one....I had little to loose doing what I've done...though I can't say that now...it is still a better investment...excluding my time...than some of the new lathes....at least I think so...
....but it's a lot of work.
Dave
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Yep - I hear you Dave. Mine's not too bad, I've already shimmed the tailstock and scraped it a bit, not worth doing any more scrapping until I fix the barrel. The rest of the lathe is bang on, the slightly loose tailstock barrel is the one outstanding flaw. I'll get to it one day, but not just yet. Still good to have a clear plan of attack for the future ;)
Steve
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Glad you know what I mean Steve....just don't want to lead anyone down the primrose whatever....
I could have built 3 Wallaby's with the work I've put into this lathe.
Dave
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Here's some pictures of the pin Steve.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_21-05-34_410_zpsbb52a371.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_21-05-34_410_zpsbb52a371.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_21-05-48_402_zpsdd441622.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_21-05-48_402_zpsdd441622.jpg.html)
Dave
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Thanks Dave
Now I've really got no excuses not to fix up that pin!
Steve
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OK ...the last bit for today.
Turning the old spindle down to extract the nut...after I trammed it in nice.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_22-10-19_959_zps0242554e.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_22-10-19_959_zps0242554e.jpg.html)
The extracted nut
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_22-18-37_71_zpsf12e688d.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_22-18-37_71_zpsf12e688d.jpg.html)
Set up the new spindle and trammed it in real nice...like .0002" nice ...and bored it for the nut....the nut was then loctited into place ..I left the nut long.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_23-01-18_930_zps738ceb26.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_23-01-18_930_zps738ceb26.jpg.html)
I then faced it back, and put a center in it for the final turning operation.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_23-18-41_334_zps48fc925b.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-19_23-18-41_334_zps48fc925b.jpg.html)
Ready to slot for the pin and the oil groove on the back side...I'll need to engrave it too.
Next, I need to make a bore lap and go over the bore of the tailstock
Made a plug gage to match it
Then I'll do the final turn of the spindle to about .001 over size
Then make an OD lap to finish the spindle...and I'm ready to see just far out of )(@*(@ alignment I really am!
Dave
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As a note, the original spindle turned like really mild steel...dare I say almost as nice as Leadloy....
The 1144SP I'm making the new one out of seems much tougher.
Dave
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I'm guessing that the nut was the solid metal of the original spindle, and that you just liberated it so that it could become a donor for transplant? Looking good Dave.
Hugh.
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I don't think so Hugh...it lists it as a seperate part in the parts diagram...I think it's pinned in...in any case...I cut down until I got to what looked like the od of the part and then parted it off long. It's resultant piece seems solid enough.
Dave
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Read the latest post about rebuilding your SB tailstock last night before bed. Woke up this morning so anxious about mine that I ran down to the shop in my pajamas to check the play. Phew, there is so little that it barely moved the needle. I have shimmed it vertically to height, though.
Mosey
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Read the latest post about rebuilding your SB tailstock last night before bed. Woke up this morning so anxious about mine that I ran down to the shop in my pajamas to check the play. Phew, there is so little that it barely moved the needle. I have shimmed it vertically to height, though.
Mosey
:lolb:
Lord you guys think the lathe dragon resides in the shop!
I very much doubt anyone's lathe here is as bad as this one was!
Go back to page 1.....008 bed wear...010 in the saddle and .018 low on the tailstock...
Relax!...this was a real basket case...but....not any more.
This weekend is coming I'll get more done then.
Dave
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Well, I suspect that my lathe is a composite of 3...bed from A, TS from B, etc. And, although it is very nice and accurate, some of my TS arbors don't bottom when the TS is fully retracted. So, what is a good way to make them all pop out when the TS is fully retracted? I've thought of putting a dot of weld on the end. I'm referring to a very nice new Bison dead center with carbide tip. Probably too hard to drill and put a pin in the end. It's a big pain when they won't come out.
Mosey
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Mosey,
You could drill the end of the TS screw and press in a button to increase the length of the screw....
Could loctite it in too... Make it a little long and you can face it back to fit just right without eating up too much of the travel.
Dave
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If you look at my picture above, you can see the end of the screw is tapered , if you were to drill say a 1/8" hole in the end, and make a .312 diameter button say 1/4 inch long with a 1/8 diameter shank that you could loctite in place...you would have it.
Dave
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Yes, that would be a good way. The list gets longer.
-
Mosey - You could also stick a small disk of metal on the end of your centre with araldite or such.
Steve
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Will give it a go.
-
I'm thinking about the engraving...and I plan to do it on the mill while mounted in the dividing head....but what to use for a cutter?
I'm thinking at the moment to turn the mill spindle to 45 and use the corner of a small end mill to cut the grooves...I think that would hold up better than an single flute engraving cutter.....the problem is the numbers...to engrave the numbers I would need an engraving cutter as I want the line width to be consistant.
If I go that route, I need to run the mill very fast indeed..and I'm worried I'll break a little cutter and end up with lines that aren't consistant....
OR with 2" of spindle travel...just leave the numbers off...
What do you guys think?
I'd like to do this before I do the final turn and lap the od...so the engraving is going to be about .010" deep.
Dave
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as you say 2 inch travel i am assuming imperial
I woulds just do a normal scale without numbers just do it with four lengths of line 1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16 that should do the job
my metric Myford does not have numbers so I guess I am used to not having them
Stuart
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If I was doing one I would mark in .050 increments and no numbers. I'd also make a center line down the tool post side for setting cutter height.
Yo Redneck
Eric
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Thanks for the response guys! :praise2:
I think what Ill do is put in inches, 1/4's and 1/8ths....un marked....
I know it's 1/8 per turn...so half turn is 1/16
I think that will be fine.... .050" will be too much for the eyes I think...At least my eyes!...I'll get lost in the lines.
See attached image...with the quil at 1.082, put in the lines, then bring back to 1.070" and you get what you see there.
Thanks!
dave
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I will do the centerline though!....but I'll put that in with the lathe tool at assembly.
Dave
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Well, how bout the first 1/2" in .050. How many times have you seen; drill .100 or .150 or .200 deep. After that it's usually in x/x dimensions . I'm a giving type :ROFL: :lolb:
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Yea I know...when It gets to that I use a minimag with a dial indicator off the back of the chuck.....
I can't count on myself reading .050 increments when I'm in the zone....I'll screw it up.
Dave
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Looking good Dave :ThumbsUp:
The layout you drew up for the markings is pretty much a mirror image of the ones on my Myford's TS. Works just fine for me for coarse work, and I eyeball between the lines where needed.
Do you have a spindle lock on your mill ? - if you do, you could sharpen up a bit of HSS tooling to an ~20o point, chuck it up, lock the spindle and just engrave the lines with that...
Kind regards, Arnold
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Hey Arnold,
Well...I'm scared to death of breaking a little tool like that...My Dad...besides being a Fireman...had a little sign making company...I watched him make signs with a Gorton engraver...and watched him break a lot of cutters just as you described!....
As my buddy Clint has been known to say...."A man must know his limitations"
Dave
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OK Dave, are we making headway here?
Don
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YUP.....just got this peasky "job" THING to do....probably this weekend...I'm going to make it a 4 dayer!
:whoohoo:
Gotta make an ID lap too!
Dave
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Well....here we are....I have to bring my son to the doctors today...which will take a while...but on the agenda for this evening is the following laps that I've attached as well as some final machining on the quill which includes cutting the keyway and oil groove on the OD prior to final turning and lapping
I have been discussing lapping this with Ramon a couple of times....and I'm following his lead...I also found an interesting book on line about lapping, and between that and some advice I've gotten in the past from my friend Rollie...I think Im there...time to get on with it!
Now I've lapped stuff before...the bores of my launch engine for instance...one of which is 3" bore!...and I used an expanding aluminum lap as outlined in Ramon's thread.
I've looked through the lucky box...and no love with respect to some 1/8th inch thick copper, but I know I have some aluminum...so I'll be making some more expanding ID laps for mounting on a taper mandrel. I need to make the mandrel first..and actually, I'll make a tapered D bit first.
The OD lap is just like the one Ramon used in his thread.
Here's some pictures of what Im getting on with ....or at least starting today
Dave
PS at Ramon's request, I'll put some of my lapping efforts in the lapping thread
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I found a piece of brass to make the ID lap...I'm still scrounging for a piece for the OD lap.
Dave
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OK
Got the lap made....used said lap on the bore...took out about .006" and it took out the machining marks...amazing how much rope chatter was there even though I didn't think it was chattering...
I used 320 grit Clover...and just a dab...and covered the ways really carefully
You can easily feel if the bore is tapered at all...right at your fingertips....and adjust accordingly
Next the quill
I then cut the slot down the side of the quill for the keyway..and then flipped it for the oil groove.
I am now mounting the quill on an arbor for engraving...though I need to set up on the Clausing, which means taking the vise off....and setting up the dividing head and tailstock....the Aciera's is too small to handle it.
So that feels too much like work for tonight...so I'll make up a plug gage tonight...for the 4th time. ::)and maybe find a libation somewhere.... ;D
Considering I only need to take .006 off the quill....I just might lap it too size.....it didn't take too long
Dave
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OK Dave, will we get it done this week? :pics:
Don
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I'm not answering that! ;D
I'll get some pictures posted....tonight after the race, I'll make the lap and start setting up for the engraving.
Tomorrow...after the parade...I'll see about mowing the lawn ...and engraving and then lapping to fit.
So the tailstock could be done tomorrow.
The end is in sight though....This is the last Major repair I need to make...after that its the assembly process..which is less interesting...I hope! ::) This assuming I don't have to rescrape the Headstock!....I hope I keep to plan and it's just a touch up of the tailstock
Dave
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So nearly there.. how long has this rebuild taken Dave ;D ?
Jo
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So nearly there.. how long has this rebuild taken Dave ;D ?
Jo
How long you been working on the R&B Jo?
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Today.. no time at all ;D I am saving it up for tomorrow when I have a wonderful man ;) coming to see if he can get my engine running :whoohoo:
Jo
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Yeah, and she gets a six hour a day head start 8) :lolb:
Eric
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Yeah, and she gets a six hour a day head start 8) :lolb:
Eric
And only 1 distraction.
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Which one would that be :embarassed:
Jo
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OK...pictures as promised
The ID lap. its on a 3 degree taper and cut in position...it worked well..and brought the ID from about 1.068 to 1.075"
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-00_504_zpsbad17500.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-00_504_zpsbad17500.jpg.html)
The quill on the arbor ready for engraving.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-19_38_zpsc52ffbb2.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-19_38_zpsc52ffbb2.jpg.html)
What I am trying to engrave in the new one....the old marks.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-30_881_zpsa924e48c.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-30_881_zpsa924e48c.jpg.html)
And the embryonic OD lap in the 4 jaw ready to bore.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-47_248_zps6d6c4d5d.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_07-42-47_248_zps6d6c4d5d.jpg.html)
I have a sick kid today..hacking up a lung!.....and the other wants to go to a parade...It'll get done eventually...after the RC car rebuild..and mowing the lawn.
Dave
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Looking good Dave
So did you run the internal lap through in situ on the South Bend?
Steve
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Hi Steve,
No, I held it in my hand and did it on the Logan at about 200 rpm...carefully...if it grabbed it would have gotten ugly!....I'm not trying to use the lap to locate the hole,,,just make it round, straight and good finish. The hole was put in where it is...right or wrong its there. The only way to change it's location now is to scrape the Headstock down to match the tailstock if the tailstock is low, or ,Scrape the Tailstock down to match the headstock if its high as required...but after the quill is fitted and I can put my test bar in....then I'll know how much work is left.
Dave
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Sounds good Dave.
I measured how much I could lift my barrel up and down the other day. With the clamp undone, it's about 1.5 thou. I think I'll follow your lead eventually, but I've already got shim under my tailstock and I'm not going to scrape the headstock. Will scrape the tailstock a little. I'm finding this most informative!
With a bit of luck all your scraping will be on the tailstock base.
Steve
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Well....that's the plan.....and hope!....but we'll see
I'm finding that the TS leadscrew goes in and stops....have to find out why before I go any farther.
If the TS is low...the only way to correct is to machine a new base for the tailstock, or scrape the headstock down to match the height....
Dave
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Here's the engraving set up.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_16-23-33_876_zpseefca992.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_16-23-33_876_zpseefca992.jpg.html)
And the engraving
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_16-56-30_407_zps16e948c8.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_16-56-30_407_zps16e948c8.jpg.html)
And the engraving complete.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_17-00-30_758_zps95ff42f7.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-27_17-00-30_758_zps95ff42f7.jpg.html)
Next to finish the OD lap....I corrected the thread binding issue...there was a burr on the thread...I took care of it.
Dave
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Nice job Dave,and thanks for the photos now I can understand what you are doing better.
Don
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Well....that's the plan.....and hope!....but we'll see
I'm finding that the TS leadscrew goes in and stops....have to find out why before I go any farther.
If the TS is low...the only way to correct is to machine a new base for the tailstock, or scrape the headstock down to match the height....
Dave
Is shimming the TS an option if it is too low? How do you set up to measure the heights of the HS & TS?
Mosey
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Well....that's the plan.....and hope!....but we'll see
I'm finding that the TS leadscrew goes in and stops....have to find out why before I go any farther.
If the TS is low...the only way to correct is to machine a new base for the tailstock, or scrape the headstock down to match the height....
Dave
Is shimming the TS an option if it is too low? How do you set up to measure the heights of the HS & TS?
Mosey
Hi Mosey,
With a test bar held between centers....and if I'm going to finish this...I am not going to shim...I will do it right.
Dave
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Well by all means don't ya start rushing it now :lolb: :lolb: :LittleDevil:
E
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Hows "things" going there Eric?....got any new toys?
Dave
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Man nice engraving. Spent from Sat. At noon till just now eating crawfish, oysters, hotdogs, burgers, and a few, well ok, several Buds. Did gets some rods made. Chillins and grand-chillins been at PawPaws pool all weekend. Got payment confirmation, nothing on shipping. My luck it will be backordered for umpteenth months. Used Jr. a little today and it ran like it knew something was up :lolb:
"E"
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I got the quill to within .003 of size...I'll take another cut to get it within .001...and then I'll lap it in. I just need to be patient here....and I'll get the fit I"m looking for.
Dave
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Got payment confirmation, nothing on shipping. My luck it will be backordered for umpteenth months.
That would be a bummer. Don't forget they have an outlet (a big one) in Springfield MO. Wouldn't be a bad drive for you. You can stop along the way and see one of the Jed Clampett cars. :Lol: There's a big Bass Pro shop there too (I think that's where they started).
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Sounds good Dave.
I measured how much I could lift my barrel up and down the other day. With the clamp undone, it's about 1.5 thou. I think I'll follow your lead eventually, but I've already got shim under my tailstock and I'm not going to scrape the headstock. Will scrape the tailstock a little. I'm finding this most informative!
With a bit of luck all your scraping will be on the tailstock base.
Steve
Steve,
I think .0015 is in the noise. Thats not too bad. Mine was more like .004-.005 ...most of the wear was in the housing bore...not the quill.....Unfortunate...but thats what I found...I made the mistake early on of just measuring the quill OD which showed about .0005" wear...thou the bore was way more than that! a costly mistake to be sure.
I find the SB iron castings to be pretty soft..
Dave
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I appologize for this thread going as long as it has. My life is full at the moment...so I get things done on in dribs and drabs.
I'm nearing the end. and the rest of it, is probably not that interesting to most, so after the TS saga is complete....I'll economize on my posts for this.
Dave
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No problem Dave. Take as long as it needs. Will still be following.
Vince
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Dave, this thread is the ducks guts, and I used to follow it when it was at 'the other place', even though I never joined. Don't apologise, when it finishes, and you have the best appointed SB ever, there will be something missing from the lives of many.
Cheers, Hugh.
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It's been a great ride Dave. Nothing wrong with the interruptions, happens to all of us
Cheers
Steve
P.S. my tailstock doesn't clamp up like an unworn one if you know what I mean. It's definitely serviceable and functions accurately but I'm not completely happy.
-
Dave,I see nothing wrong with the length of this thread. I have followed you from the first at the old site and have learned plenty doing it. So don't get in a rush to finish on our part. I enjoyed following you bud.
Don
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Thanks guys....I never really imagined it would have gone this long...or had been this extensive a job!...I got caught up in trying to make it right...and equiped the way I wanted to be. .I think part of it is I want my son to have it someday.
I would like to think I knew more about lathes than I did...or do now...but here we are.
I would recommend....unless you really like a lot of work..long hours of effort...strange looks from your wife...plenty of money spent on books, levels and indicators and hours doing research,...by a good lathe.
NOW having said all that...I am not at all intimidated to making something flat to a .0001" or perhaps better...and I can at least do that now.....and taking a Chinese "kit of parts" and turn them into something that would be much more expensive otherwise
It has been said that an education is priceless ....well I wouldn't call it priceless...but it's expensive! ::)...and I have some skills and kit now that I can use in other places in my shop.
Dave
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Plain and simple; Education is expensive. Don't care in what or from where; you gonna pay for it. Don't worry bout the length of the thread. The last post will be like the last episode of MASH. I didnt want it to end and I still watch reruns :LittleDevil:
Yo Redneck,
Eric
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I got the quill turned to. about. 001 over, and restarted lapping as the metal removal rate was very slow.
I started with 320the grit be went to 240the as it was slow. Once i was within about .0003, I went back to 320. Ok so once I got to size, or at least within my uncertainty, I swapped to automotive rubbing compound. Talk about night and day! A .0001" difference in diameter is a very significant differance in feel with the lap! Especialy with the finer compound!
At the moment, I have a 1.5 inch long section that is. 0002 big best as I can measure, and the quill goes into this ponit and stops cold!
Im digging it!
Ill load some photos in a bit.
Dave
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Next you'll be telling us that this lapping caper actually works!
-
It does!....and I'm amazed at a few things...I've lapped parts before...but never to this level, and I've learned a few things so far
With friable abrasive, once you start getting close...It pays to clean the lap and go down in grit size significantly, as it will polish what you have, and the large diameters will pop!...then you don't just have the feel of the lap and the micrometer to go buy, you will have a visual cue as well!....and Im saying .0002" is very significant!..
As I can see it is large in this area...I'll go back to 320 just in that area...an touch it up a bit...then go back to rubbing compound.
It's very close..and I know I can get this essentially to zero shake....so Im chuffed!... :pinkelephant: :whoohoo:
Once I find my phone cable...Ill load up some pictures.... :headscratch:
Dave
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Here's a picture with the OD lap ....and a well worn one too
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-03-09_149_zps1ca7fef0.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-03-09_149_zps1ca7fef0.jpg.html)
Once I got close...I changed to rubbing compound, and the "high spots" really pop!....
The measured difference from one to the other area is .0002".
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-18-50_884_zpsf6d2f178.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-18-50_884_zpsf6d2f178.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-18-59_206_zps8a4b1de6.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-28_18-18-59_206_zps8a4b1de6.jpg.html)
In the bottom photo you can see some "roping" chatter going on...don't know if that is set up or bearings...but as turned you can't see it...you only see it once you start lapping the diameter...and it's really tiny....less than .0001" I think...but there it is!
Dave
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Well, it does make sense, at that point the spindle is .0003 larger than the bore. Another exciting phase in the rebuild. Congratulations.
The photos are very interesting, I've had that sort of pattern in turned work before, it can't be felt, only seen. Is it only at one end?
Hugh.
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No it appears to be fairly consistant....so I'm thinking it's bearing related....I don't think I can measure it if I tried....but it does show once you start lapping the diameter.
Dave
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Looking good Dave, you don't think that those line could have something to do with the type of metal you used? just my thoughts.
Don
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I don't think so Don...it's changing phase as the tool advances....so it's possible that the feed system is involved...again...I've see it before ...but I'll be damned if I can measure it....
Dave
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OK...Duuuuh!
For an ABEC 5 or 7 bearing, typical for a spindle like the Logan, the non-repeatable bearing runout...attributed to ball race interaction...is about a .0001. So best I can figure we are looking at the ball precessing around the spindle leaving a mark in the work....its small but it's there....and it should be there....which makes me feel better!...my spindle is not going bad!.... :cheers:
Dave
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Alright!
The quill is fit and it fits nice :cheers: :whoohoo:
I checked the alignment and its tilting up. 002"and high. 004
Once I take care of the tilt all that will be left is about. 002 high which ill take down. 001...or even just leave as it is!
Very chuffed at the moment!
Dave
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Nice Dave, this calls for a photo :cheers:
Steve
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Nice work Dave, yea give us a phot when you recover.
Don
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quick vid !
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/th_2013-05-31_07-37-17_262_zps118bb5f1.jpg) (http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-31_07-37-17_262_zps118bb5f1.mp4)
Dave
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Heavenly! Nice work, no slacking, your almost there.
Mosey
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Thanks Mosey
Ive got a set of gears to cut with my son this weekend
Dave
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She's looking god Dave, your almost there bud. Nice job on the quill.
Don
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Thanks Don! got a RC car spread out over the Kitchen table at the moment waiting for new gear innards.....though I'm getting itchy to finish the TS. I want to do finish the lever action lock for it...and then scrape it in.
Been reading up on Ivan Law's book on gear cutting....looking at a lathe dividing attachment....I'll expose more of that in a seperate thread.
Dave
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Ok
I checked out the tailstock and it points uphill. 002"/9" with the test bar in the tailstock
The spec is uphill .0005/12"
It points back to the rear. 003"/9"....wrong direction
The spec is. 0005/12"It towards the front
The height is. 0035 higher than the headstock.
The spec is. 002"with high for an engine lathe, .001 high for a toolmakers lathe.
The changes above can be accomplished I think with a bit of scraping..the rotation seems bad but it wont take much
Almost there.
Dave
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OK I got the clearance Clarence!....it's going to rain like hell tomorrow, so I get to put some time in the shop doing some scraping!
I don't think the Tailstock will take long...so then I can start assembly of the apron and leadscrew stuff...maybe even mount the motor and drive!
Dave
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Git back boys. Now we're talking. Go Dave and don't fergit the pics
Yo Redneck
Eric
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Alright!
The tailstock is done! It is .001" high....points towards the front .0007"/9"....and up hill about the .0006"/9"
Considering it was .018" low when I started....I'm calling it done!
I'm going to make some parts for the lever action tailstock lock mod tonight...and then perhaps start getting the apron on.
I am so glad the scraping it done on the basic lathe. I know I have some fun ahead for all the accessories...the bed mounted turret , lever action cross slide..and veritical slide..which i've started...but the basic lathe is scraped in!
I'll post some photo's later
Dave
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Dave that should make you very elated. It's been a long way getting here, but you did bud. Your close to making Swarf with it. If you have problems with the controls let me know.
Don
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Thanks Don!
I'm going to get that TS clamp system done now
Dave
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Got most of the TS lever action clamp components done...more to come tomorrow.
Dave
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Nearly there Dave
All that work will be worth it, the Chips will be flying off the old girl in no time.
I've enjoyed the journey, thanks for sharing.
Bez
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OK...some pictures...doesn't seem like much but it's about 4 hours work...including the shaft/eccentric
I have the clamp bolt roughed out of a piece of old SS prop shaft...for that I grabbed some carbide and put the Logan to work at 1500 rpm!....I have some new chip tattoo's :o ::)
I'll get some more done today
The new and old Tailstock Base.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_18-24-18_472_zpse75e3387.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_18-24-18_472_zpse75e3387.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_18-24-12_91_zps729b978e.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_18-24-12_91_zps729b978e.jpg.html)
The eccentric cam and shaft.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_20-57-21_480_zpsebe51786.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-08_20-57-21_480_zpsebe51786.jpg.html)
Dave
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You is on a roll now. Won't be long before you'll be like Don, making parts on it to make more parts for it.
Looking sweet and "it's a runnah" ain't far away.
Yo Redneck,
Eric
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Very nice Dave.
Hugh.
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Thanks guys!....it's coming.
Dave
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Ok Houston, we have a problem.
I am following the plans from a old Model Engineer authored by "Little Etonian".
It looks like a marvelous plan!....But its also clear he didnt build it as drawn.
The clamp yoke will not go in. Even the standard clamp bolt wont go in from the top!
So a redesign of the yoke is required....along with remaking the yoke.!
#%%$#&%$#%%$#!
Dave
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OK Here's what I'm talking about.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-09_12-39-20_276_zpsdce35c82.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-09_12-39-20_276_zpsdce35c82.jpg.html)
No way that yoke is going in from the top. It needs to be put in in two pieces....I'm think some form of "T"nut
Dave
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As Gomer would say, "Surprise, surprise, surprise". Bummer Dave, but think on it buddy you will overcome it.
Don
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I know that article, what an absolutely gormless thing to go and publish. I guess you'll have to cut it to a length where it will go in, then drill and tap for an extension. Little Etonian, indeed!
Hugh.
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Translation, please.
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Gormless = Stupid.
-
I know that article, what an absolutely gormless thing to go and publish. I guess you'll have to cut it to a length where it will go in, then drill and tap for an extension. Little Etonian, indeed!
Hugh.
Well....never fear...we have a solution.
I'll be making a new "yoke" that goes over the cam, and is tapped 3/8-16. Removing the tail will allow the yoke to be positioned easily.
I will then insert a 3/8 T nut in the base clamp, the item that goes underneath the ways. I've made this part already.
Next , A 3/8-16 stud will connect the two parts, anchored at the "yoke' with a 4-40 screw will complete the linkage. To adjust, the TS is removed , and the base clamp turned 1/2 turn at a time until it is positioned appropriately.
It will look very similar to the "little eatonian" item...exept this will work.
I'll publish what I come up with here.
Dave
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I'll get back into it today...and get the Tailstock clamp sorted out....Then I think it's time to make it all move!
The motor and controller next!....get it mounted so its out of the way!
Dave
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Great Dave, don't forget some photos. I am looking forward to seeing you finish this.
Don
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Here's where I'm going to put the control box.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-16_18-23-11_368_zps3c10e993.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-16_18-23-11_368_zps3c10e993.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-16_18-23-26_527_zpsf26610f0.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-16_18-23-26_527_zpsf26610f0.jpg.html)
My right hand falls right on it....
Dave
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Looks good Dave. What does the Meter tell you? It's very impressive!
Hugh.
Edit: I accidently posted Meyer instead of meter, which rendered the question incomprehensible. Apologies.
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It will be calibrated to RPM. The motor will have a speed range from about 1/6 th nameplate to about 2X nameplate....having said that I can put the belt in the middle pulley and leave it there. One scale on the meter will be enough. The panel of the meter comes out easy and I can replace it with a calibrated scale.
Dave
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That look good Dave as long as you can reach it OK.
Don
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It seems fine Don...feels good. My right hand falls on it...so it seems fairly natural. And its out of the way.
Dave
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One thing I had forgotten to mention is the ESTOP. I had included a contactor with the drive. This is to be used as a ESTOP with a Mushroom pushbutton. This is in case the electronics fail in the drive, you want to do a quick disconnect from power. It can also serve as a disconnect once you secure the lathe and shut power to the drive. You will want to do that especially with thunder storms.
Now, if you need a mushroom switch let me know, and a drawing to connect the contactor and mushroom
Don
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I see on the other site that I quit the project and had it ground......that's funny!
Makes me glad I made the decision I did.....nuf said
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And what advertisements did you get hit with when you was over there a snooping? I do it every now and again and think just wot you said.
E
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And what advertisements did you get hit with when you was over there a snooping? I do it every now and again and think just wot you said.
If you use Firefox get the (free) add-on called Adblock...
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adblock-plus/?src=hp-dl-mostpopular
and all those ads (and many others) will be a thing of the past.
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I got a question and a statement here. Dave, if these parts were lapped on a dead flat surface prior to marking, would it cut down on scraping time? Marv, me tinks I needs an IT tech, I still have trouble with FM radio :-\
E
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I got a question and a statement here. Dave, if these parts were lapped on a dead flat surface prior to marking, would it cut down on scraping time? Marv, me tinks I needs an IT tech, I still have trouble with FM radio :-\
E
Maybe....but with the lap...it will be near impossible to predict WHERE you will be taking metal off. With Scraping you take off the metal EXACTLY where you want to and can control flatness, squareness and size all at the same time. As Nick put it ...it's in the ability to understand the marking and the measurements and making the mental picture of where the part is....and where you want it to go!
Dave
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To your question about adds.....I wasn't paying attention....don't know.
Dave
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Ok I think I understand. ADDS, try mixing it with a healthy dose of OCD. You become all about what you are doing and then take off to do something else with the same passion. Quite tiring,but, if you are in the Zen zone you sure can get a lot done. Now, do you scrape the blue off or the silver spots?
E
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Dave, if these parts were lapped on a dead flat surface prior to marking, would it cut down on scraping time?
Forget about lapping! It is extremely slow. With the right scraping technique, you can remove a few 1/100 of a mm per pass. The scraper therefore is (probably) slightly different than what you get/have.
One thing that is hard to learn about scraping is when to rough cut and when to finish and when to chase for spots. You can waste an incredible amount of time when doing it wrong. Depending how much off the geometry is, you can cut down time by a factor of 10 or even 100! Getting that right, is something you should have to be shown. A teacher checking you and telling you over and over again to be more aggressive.
Nick
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Ok I think I understand. ADDS, try mixing it with a healthy dose of OCD. You become all about what you are doing and then take off to do something else with the same passion. Quite tiring,but, if you are in the Zen zone you sure can get a lot done. Now, do you scrape the blue off or the silver spots?
E
Yes my spelling sucks....get over it Marv. :lolb:
Eric....when your "pointing"....which is finish scraping...you scrape just the silver spots...as best you can.
Tom is in the middle of pointing his work...the blue has carried all over,,,he want's more points and perhaps a better distribution of points.
When your roughing...you work areas....and your not paying much attention to the silver spots.
Say you mark it up...and it's touching at 3 points on the outside edges of the part.....most of the surface is not touching....except on 3 "mountains"....your job is to make the mountains the same height as the valleys.....you don't need a trowel...you need a bulldozer!....so you work the areas of the mountains down.
Later....as it gets closer. as you get points more or less over the whole part...they say the part has "carried" like Tom's photo's.......you go to pointing......you get the trowel out and park the bulldozer ....so to speak.
What Nick Said! :ThumbsUp:
Dave
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Ok I think I understand. ADDS, try mixing it with a healthy dose of OCD. You become all about what you are doing and then take off to do something else with the same passion. Quite tiring,but, if you are in the Zen zone you sure can get a lot done. Now, do you scrape the blue off or the silver spots?
E
Yes my spelling sucks....get over it Marv. :lolb:
While I certainly wouldn't argue with your statement, I'm at a loss to understand why you said it. I never said anything about your spelling. What am I missing here?
-
Marv,
I thank you for the Addblocker.
Mosey
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Ok I think I understand. ADDS, try mixing it with a healthy dose of OCD. You become all about what you are doing and then take off to do something else with the same passion. Quite tiring,but, if you are in the Zen zone you sure can get a lot done. Now, do you scrape the blue off or the silver spots?
E
OOOOOOOOM!
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Deep breath, relax, scrape. Deep breath, relax, scrape. I'm feeling it now. Better than yoga, Yogi. :lolb:
E
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Ok I think I understand. ADDS, try mixing it with a healthy dose of OCD. You become all about what you are doing and then take off to do something else with the same passion. Quite tiring,but, if you are in the Zen zone you sure can get a lot done. Now, do you scrape the blue off or the silver spots?
E
Yes my spelling sucks....get over it Marv. :lolb:
While I certainly wouldn't argue with your statement, I'm at a loss to understand why you said it. I never said anything about your spelling. What am I missing here?
:lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
-
Deep breath, relax, scrape. Deep breath, relax, scrape. I'm feeling it now. Better than yoga, Yogi. :lolb:
E
Actually, it is....Eddy at Moore tool..who KNEW Dick Moore......A Master Scraper...35+ years...As I asked him if he could give me some pointers...he looked at me very suprised and said....."why the hell would you want to learn how to do this!"....which made me laugh!....I said I didn't need to know it as well as him, but I wanted to understand!....he looked at me with a wry grin and said...."Do you know what we call these things!..holding up a Anderson solid body scraper....."Stupid sticks"!
I laughed...and I said...anyone who can hold .0000020" over 24" like other people breath...has my respect...and I would be honored to try to learn something from....amazingly....he was all too happy to spend the afternoon teaching me a thing or two...he said I scrape too light....guilty...but I scrape very even!...or straight down...."so I could learn to scrape deeper with time"....I still need to work on my "hook"...not sure I'll ever get that figured out...
Largely because I don't have to do it for a living...I find scraping very relaxing. It absorbs the mind enough that you have to think about what your doing...and really nothing else....so your mind gets some "quiet time".....it can be relaxing!
It can be no end of frustrating too!....but that is usually when your not "listening" to what the marks are telling you....additionally NEVER EVER rely on one test to prove anything....you must test it at least 2 different ways...and the two tests must agree. If you do that you will have some confidence in your work.
Like doing a "spin test"....for flatness....then do a "3 paper test"....they both better say the part is flat...or its not!...and one of the tests isn't telling the truth!...
Watch out for the heat you put into a part from your hands!...it can really drive you loopy!
Dave
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The lever lock tailstock is done.......as a matter of fact.....the Tailstock is Done!
Here's some progress shots
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-00-09_172_zps0c7f7843.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-00-09_172_zps0c7f7843.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-00-14_305_zps361b80d9.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-00-14_305_zps361b80d9.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-06_322_zpsb81ca880.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-06_322_zpsb81ca880.jpg.html)
Unlocked
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-19_101_zps566c9e7d.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-19_101_zps566c9e7d.jpg.html)
locked!
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-26_742_zps513ae0bb.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-29-26_742_zps513ae0bb.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-51-01_732_zps7c26931f.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-23_16-51-01_732_zps7c26931f.jpg.html)
Now for the apron...maybe later....got honeydo's.
Dave
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She's looking good from here David and your getting close buddy.
Don
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So lets recap:
What have I repaired or replaced.....
Lined bored the countershaft housing and replaced the shaft and bearings
Replaced the motor.
Added belt guards.
New motor controls ( Thanks Don!)
New quadrant gear bushing
New shaft in QCGB
New bearings in QCGB
New Belt
New Cross slide
Bed reground
Saddle rescraped
Headstock Rescraped
Tailstock base replaced with billet base.
New Tailstock quill
Lever lock TS clamp
New bearing in apron
New wicks in apron
New wicks in Headstock
New Halfnuts
New bench
New follower rest
New steady rest
New bed mounted turret ( yet to be fitted)
New lever action cross slide ( yet to be fitted)
New T-slotted cross slide from a casting.
New cross slide gib
New Micro adjusting bed feet
Rescraped saddle gib
Rescraped the TS and the new base.
Rescraped the Compound slide
Replaced the cross slide nut
Complete strip and repaint.
New Accessory tool box (yet to be mounted)
New lever action 3C collet closer
Addition of 3C collets to make nearly complete set x 64ths up to 9/16" ( I think I'm missing 2)
Standard collet closer drawbar restored
New 5" 3 jaw chuck with 2 piece jaws
New 6" 4 jaw independant chuck
New Multi tap faceplate.
2 new catch plates
2 New tailstock mounted drill chucks
New spindle roller thrust bearing.
New wicks in the tumbler gear assembly
New wicks in the QCGB
Stuff yet to be done.....to end this thread.
Fit the apron....shim the QCGB and leadscrew hanger
Final check of alignments
Get the motor wiring done and the control box mounted.
make some chips!
We're close!
Dave
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fantastic Dave. Very thorough rebuild.
Steve
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You will be lost once it finished :cheers: Then to actually use it and spoil all that effort??? :headscratch:
Pete
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You will be lost once it finished :cheers: Then to actually use it and spoil all that effort??? :headscratch:
Pete
Oh hell no! I intend to put all that work.....TO WORK! That's why I did all that! To obtain the lathe I really wanted!....A small accurate lathe capable of a wide variety of work and tooled accordingly!....
I also intend to teach my son how run a lathe with this. I can't wait to use it!
:cheers:
Dave
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Great to see you still making progress on this, Dave! So close now! :cheers:
Simon
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Don, Simon, Steve and Pete,
Thanks for looking in...you're right...nearly there.
Dave
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You better put it to work, this ain't no museum hoss. You've got a poor under privileged child, who's only mill is a stinking old Aceria and you shouldn't deny him that old wore out SB lathe. :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
E
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...
You better put it to work, this ain't no museum hoss. You've got a poor under privileged child, who's only mill is a stinking old Aceria and you shouldn't deny him that old wore out SB lathe. :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
E
...or the Clausing, or the Waltham, or the F.E. Reed, Or the Gorton........I'll stop there.
Dave
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:thinking: I knew I needed to buy a couple more mills. :headscratch: I thought I had him beat with 6 lathes but I only have 3 mills :naughty:
Jo
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Nope ...still got me beat Jo...I only have 2 mills...........not counting the one I built from scrap...but that's another thread.
8)
Dave
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;D But that won't stop me lusting after more tools....
I have my eye on one at the moment, it is very, very nice :embarassed: I think that the owner is trying to pretend he doesn't know I have desires on it. It is not as if I think he uses it :shrug: and I know he would be impressed with what I would do with it :mischief: .
Jo
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If no one has an eye on the camlock TS...I'll not bother drawing it up. otherwise let me know
I have some vacation coming soon.....with a long list of things to do!....I think I'll need a vacation from the vacation!
Dave
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Old Pal, at this point we are all waiting for swarf as much as new grandparents awaiting a new arrival :D.
We've been with ya this far and we ain't leaving you in the delivery room :lolb: :lolb:
Eric
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I can assure you Eric....the 9 is on the list!...
Dave
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I think I got lucky tonight. I bolted the apron on and the rack gears lined up pretty darn well!
The reason is as follows
The bed was messed up from the factory. The rear V was about .007 higher
Than the front V. No it wasnt wear. It was machined that way.
Now the grinder called me up about it and I said to make it right....and he took most of it out...there is I a bit left, but I scraped the saddle level with respect to the top of the V's which is the leveling surface for the lathe.....
but I had to turn the saddle quite the bit as it went up hill bad....now I have no idea how much it went up hill when new...but it was over .010" when I got started...
So I think what happened was true...the bearing surfaces have lowered because the bed was ground, but the apron interface went back up because I rotated the saddle front to back which effectively raised the apron....I thin the result was it's pretty close....was close enough to not worry about shimming the rack down to meet the gear...it fits!..
What that also tells me is the leadscrew alignment might also be pretty good....we'll find out this weekend.....
Dave
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I think I got lucky tonight. I bolted the apron on and the rack gears lined up pretty darn well!
The reason is as follows
The bed was messed up from the factory. The rear V was about .007 higher
Than the front V. No it wasnt wear. It was machined that way.
Now the grinder called me up about it and I said to make it right....and he took most of it out...there is I a bit left, but I scraped the saddle level with respect to the top of the V's which is the leveling surface for the lathe.....
but I had to turn the saddle quite the bit as it went up hill bad....now I have no idea how much it went up hill when new...but it was over .010" when I got started...
So I think what happened was true...the bearing surfaces have lowered because the bed was ground, but the apron interface went back up because I rotated the saddle front to back which effectively raised the apron....I thin the result was it's pretty close....was close enough to not worry about shimming the rack down to meet the gear...it fits!..
What that also tells me is the leadscrew alignment might also be pretty good....we'll find out this weekend.....
Dave
None of this means anything without pictures :Director:
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OK Steve....here ya go....the vid sucks...but it's what I have......
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/th_2013-06-26_21-27-37_228_zpsbf319007.jpg) (http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-26_21-27-37_228_zpsbf319007.mp4)
Dave
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All my video is bad but it's better than nothing. I gotta get some sound.
-
Well...hope you understand what I meant anyway....
Dave
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Hey Steve!
You thinking what I'm thinking?
Now you see the tumbler gears
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-36-47_549_zps10e63002.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-36-47_549_zps10e63002.jpg.html)
Now you see a spot to put a dividing attachment?...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-37-01_297_zps52dab6ce.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-05-05_10-37-01_297_zps52dab6ce.jpg.html)
Dave
I have an index wheel that I will be mountion on the OD of the spindle gear. With the tumbler removed, which comes out in all of about 2 seconds....I'll install an index pin and anchor assembly in the large bore where the tumbler resided. I can use all my spindle tooling including collet draw bars of various sorts and chucks
It will have 24 index circle ...but there is room to add a couple more if required...but I doubt it.
Mostly I've used the spindle index for roller filing flats on small hex head screws ...On screws large enough to screw cut, I cut the hex with the mill...on ones small enough to use the fileing rest, I cut the threads with a die....so I think this will work and I won't need the lead screw.
I will also be putting a set of configuireable "Hole blocks" in so I don't have to count holes....just pull the pin and rotate until the pin drops into the next hole.
Dave
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Cool stuff! I could make a real camshaft on somethin that big.
-
Thanks Steve.....I suspect I'll have a very productive weekend ....it's supposed to rain. ::)
Dave
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Started in.....It'll be ready to finish the wiring today for sure.....I noticed that the feed/half nut interlock was locked...and wouldn't unlock...so before I got into any real final assembly, I tore it down and looked at what was going on. It appears that the new half nuts (NOS) have a stop boss on the bottom nut half. When the half nut is disengaged, the stop makes contact with a boss on the apron. This stop positions the half nut lever in the appropriate position to release the lock....rotate too little or too much, and its locked. The boss on the half nut clearly has lots of stock to be filed off for fitting. resulting in the half nut lever not moving far enough to unlock.....so I'll be doing some filing for a while until it works correctly.....something to definitely take your time doing!....I'll take a picture to show what I mean ....got a minivan to clean first... ::)
Dave
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I'm out here waiting breathlessly for "first-chips"!! Good on Dave. Hope it rains all week if that would help.
Obama is probably going to cut his trip short in anticipation. :Love:
Mosey
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OK....the half nuts have been sorted....picture to follow
Next....lunch with my son while watching Aussie V8 Supercar...... 8)
Dave
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Its going to need shims to lower the QCGB/leadscrew.
When I engage the half nuts it lifts the carrage a good. 0.020"!
Ill load up some pictures.....
Dave
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OK here's the bottom half nut...the boss on top is the stop for when the nuts are open. It's cast tall, and then needs to be filed back to open it just the correct amount to unlock the feed interlock
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_12-05-07_356_zpsbd8e3f52.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_12-05-07_356_zpsbd8e3f52.jpg.html)
And one with the lever action collet closer on, It really needs to be painted..... and some belts mounted. I have the motor pulley on backwards...so I'll need to turn that around...additionally, the belt I had isn't really long enough....so I'll get a longer one tomorrow...the serpentine one fits perfect though.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_18-17-02_373_zps7ce40468.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_18-17-02_373_zps7ce40468.jpg.html)
Patience......
Dave
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She's looking good Dave, your going to love using that QC gearbox.
Don
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Very nice, Dave, the unpainted bits do look out of place though. How did the V8's go?
Hugh.
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Yup.....I haven't painted all the accessories yet...so I'll get to them eventually....Whincup came in second as I recall....seemed a good race!
Dave
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The camera kinda sucks too...the only thing a different color in that photo is the lever action collet closer....everything else is the same color!
:o
Dave
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OK...I shimmed the QCGB and hanger down....0.057"..!
I think it's pretty good...but I want to measure some more...
Additionally, I need to move the half nuts with a shim inboard .007 to align it in the other direction.....wow!
Some of this is:
The re-boring of the apron....but not much....maybe .005"
The regrind......007".....?
There isn't .007" shake in the screws holding the gearboxes on....so moving the box and the hanger is not an option
but....there we are.
Dave
Screwed up from day one....most likely!
-
I have no idea what any of that means but it doesn't sound good.
-
Hey Steve,
Here's the machine...
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_18-17-02_373_zps7ce40468.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-06-29_18-17-02_373_zps7ce40468.jpg.html)
The Quick Change Gear box is in the front of the photo. It is held on with 3 1/4-20 screws. It locates on the flat under the front V way.
If you follow the lead-screw to the to the lead-screw hanger.....it is also held on with 2 1/4-20 screws and mounts on the same surface.
To get things to line up...I needed to put a .057" shim in to bring the 3 components down and into alignment with the apron on the saddle.
I also had to move the half nuts in the apron into the screen by .007" to align in the other plane.
It just seems like I needed to move it a WHOLE BUNCH!...but it seems happy at the moment.
Dave
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I shimmed the half nuts and reassembled. Im going to shim the rack. I mounted the banjo and the gear cover. I put tbe way wipers on. Tonight Ill start the wiring tonight.
Tomorrow Ill try to sort out the motor an primary belt guard and finish the wiring.
Were close....I ha e some pics that ill post later.
Dave
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Dave, I will be watching with great interest and checking my PM should you need anything.
Don
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We live in exciting times! Enjoy yourself.
Hugh.
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OK we are making some progress....
I had to make a thin 7/8 spanner to tighten the lead-screw jam nut
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_14-59-16_678_zps23f2f6b4.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_14-59-16_678_zps23f2f6b4.jpg.html)
Then I made up a shim for the half nuts
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_14-41-10_582_zpsb1634b13.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_14-41-10_582_zpsb1634b13.jpg.html)
Then I machined the AXA post T nut to fit the compound....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_20-11-12_981_zpsad4c59dc.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_20-11-12_981_zpsad4c59dc.jpg.html)
And then on to the wiring, it's a start...I need to make a strain relief or modify the one I have ....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_20-11-23_520_zpsc8c8ee09.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-04_20-11-23_520_zpsc8c8ee09.jpg.html)
Additionally, I have started to mount the tool chest which will store all the collet, the unused tool holder and any lathe specific measurement tooling....and a draw for the centers and drill chucks....
Tomorrow....I get the motor finally mounted...and a belt on and wire the damn thing.....GET-ER-DUN!
Dave
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Oh and the last photo...the box in the background is full of 3C collets..... :pinkelephant: :cartwheel: :whoohoo:
I'll pick through them and sell the rest....there is a full set in there...x 1/64"...up to 9/16....except for 2.
Dave
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Hey! Where's the photos of the motors and wiring? Glad your getting it done buddy. Are we going to see a running video of it making Swarf?
Don
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We are counting the hours now pal. Breath held, palms sweating, teeth clinched, we are pulling for ya.
Don, thought you was headed to Itlee, don't get the Mrs. Mad at us for not being able to leave us whilst on holiday with her. Hey, just saying, I been married a bunch a years and I knows how's theys is :LittleDevil:
Yo redneck,
Eric
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It's progressing....I am trying to help my son at the moment get through his math lessons.....I have the wires routed...but I still need to hook the motor up and sort out the pulley....
Almost there.....patience guys.
While I had a few minutes here and there...I overhauled the lever action collet closer and painted it and put in new wicks
Tomorrow, my son Is having his best friend over for his Birthday party...we're going to a gravel quarry to run his and friend RC off road trucks...so I had my hands full getting his truck ready too.
Dave
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I've been dithering with the location of the control box...additionally, I need an electrical enclosure ....and they are tough to get on a Sunday ....but here's where it's at..
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-07_19-59-44_88_zps2af99f56.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-07_19-59-44_88_zps2af99f56.jpg.html)
I like the control box here better....where I had it would have been impossible to use with a the turret tailstock......
I have this week off...so in between the honey do's the various appointments...and the dump run with the truck....it'll get running.
Dave
It's come a looooooong way since this!
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310067.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/P1310067.jpg.html)
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I think the last installment in this thread will be of it taking a cut on a shaft. I need to fit at least one chuck to do that!... :hellno:
....almost done.
Dave
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What a transformation! Can't wait to see some chips!
Simon
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Thanks Simon!
Me too!
Dave
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Have been silently watching your restoration. Very well done! I am really impressed by your work.
/Peter
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Dave
It has been a long time coming but the end is truly in sight. Looking forward to see some swarf.
Vince
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Thanks Vince!..
I got the box....I'll mount it today...got some errands to do, and a doctors appointment in the afternoon.....I had grand plans for the yard and the clean up there of....but I've decided that today is a low impact day.......
Dave
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This is like watching the Soaps!
I can't wait much longer.
Imagine how great it will be. Go Dave.
Mosey
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I really like the dial instrument on the control box! A perfect fit in stile that puts frosting onto the already excellent cake.
Nick
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Thanks Nick!....that's a Tachometer. It'll have 2 ranges....1 for normal turning..and one for back gear.....and I dithered on where to put it, and the ergonomics question WAY too long before I decided to just put it where South bend put it :facepalm: :lolb:
And all the thanks to you Don1966 for the Drive!
Dave
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Have been silently watching your restoration. Very well done! I am really impressed by your work.
/Peter
Thank you Peter....As Eric ( BrassMachine) has put it.....this one has been EPIC!.....and I think I have the machine tool rebuilding bug ....though I am open to what ever antibiotic that will fix that!....... :ShakeHead:
Maybe it's called " ISCRAPEUNTILMYARMSHURTAMICIN".....bet that'll cure it! :ROFL:
Dave
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Thanks Vince!..
I got the box....I'll mount it today...got some errands to do, and a doctors appointment in the afternoon.....I had grand plans for the yard and the clean up there of....but I've decided that today is a low impact day.......
Dave
Well that plan went out the window!....we got good news regarding our son's health....so we know what needs to happen now...so when my wife and I got home form the doctors office, we took everyone out for dinner!....between the Chinese food and the Mai tia's....Mama had a couple too!....well....not a lot of Southbend love happened last night and Papa steamer kinda went to bed early!....we have some more appointments today...but I'll be picking at it as I can. Don, I believe the motor has a 9 wire pigtail, as we discussed and I believe it is an American motor......and I'll be putting the drive on the cover of the box which is a 8 x8 x 6 inch steel box. That will be mounted on the left side of the cabinet in the photo I posted...so the wire runs will be short....and might even be code! :ROFL:......though I'll check with you before the I open the valve and let the electrons in for real!
Dave
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Great news on the good news. Hey, man can't live on swarf alone :naughty:. We ain't going nowhere, so it will happen when it happens.
Yo Redneck,
Eric
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Thanks Eric....it was good news!.....
Dave
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Nice to know it was good news :ThumbsUp:
:headscratch: I thought that swarf was on the list of good things for a diet... Maybe it was making swarf that is good for the diet ;D
Jo
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Here's a shot of how I mounted the tool chest...It keeps the chip pan clear, and puts the box up close so I don't need to reach for the items over the lathe.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-07_18-18-54_865_zps7fb9ccb7.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-07_18-18-54_865_zps7fb9ccb7.jpg.html)
The bottom drawer will have the collets.
Dave
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Nice to know it was good news :ThumbsUp:
:headscratch: I thought that swarf was on the list of good things for a diet... Maybe it was making swarf that is good for the diet ;D
Jo
Only if it keeps me in the shop and out of the kitchen! :lolb:
Dave
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Looks good Dave,I am really glad it was good news for your son. I will keep checking on the progress as much as I can buddy. I hope you had a Mai Tia for me. Because here I have been drinking wine, but it's good mind you.
Nine lead motor you have the connection on the drawing, just double check it with the motor name plate or inside the motor jbox cover to verify it to be correct.
Do
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Just need to get some 14/4.....and I can go!
Dave
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Well...I got the wire...and after some interruptions and distractions....I got the box on...the wires run, and connected.....and well...all of a sudden...it was time to turn it on....which I did....Smooooooth!
The calculations say the top speed should be about 1800...but I don't believe it ....I'll need to measure it and verify....
OH MY GOD!.....It's time to take a cut!
So....here we are...FIRST cut...and on camera...I had the feed rate WAY too high...but it didn't care in the least.
I have another one...but I need to load it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXGadCgsgU
Dave
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I brought the bar out 2" and increased the depth of cut to about .13"...in tool steel...with a fairly large radius for a small lathe.... .13"
Feedrate was .0016". I cut like butter!....I am very pumped right now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGdxMOPj5sM
I want to thank everyone for following along and giving me the encouragement!...it really meant a lot!
I didn't intend this project to be this much work...but ....I learned so much doing it!....
Couldn't have done it with out you!
Thank you All!
Dave
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Here's the serial number card for this lathe made on 9/20/1951...
She originally had a 3 phase motor, chip pan and free standing legs.
See attached.
Dave
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Dave she looks/sounds and performs highly desirably 8)
You have no excuses now, it is time to get on with that Wallaby ;)
Jo
---
P.S. And are you going to buy you son an engine of his own to build? Very educational....
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:whoohoo: :cheers: :ThumbsUp:
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Congratulations, looks great and am looking forward to seeing what you make with it :cheers:
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OH MY GOD!.....It's time to take a cut!
I know that moment. It is quite a strange feeling. Suddenly, you have something useful. And you don't know or don't remember why you wanted it. You ask yourself "Now what? Why am I here? Why did I want to be here?"
You WILL remember! And you will be DAMNED proud of your work!
Nick
PS: Was that me you showed your tongue or some other Nick? :)
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It's been a long journey but a fascinating one to follow. I can only imagine the shear joy of making something on a lathe so lovingly restored.
once again , well done and praise well deserved :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
peter
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Dave, that's fantastic. Is this like the last episode of MASH or something? What are we going to do? Can't you make a countershaft clutch or something? Congrats.
Hugh.
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You dun good Dave! Nuff said! :ThumbsUp:
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Nick
PS: Was that me you showed your tongue or some other Nick? :)
First of all thank you for your kind comments Nick!..... :praise2:
Second of all...in one of your scraping video's...at the very end you stop and stick your tongue out at the camera........in a weird kind of way, I was saying Thankyou!....for teaching me some important lessons with your video's!..... :praise2:
So yes....it was for you! :lolb:
Dave
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Tel, Hugh, Peter, Rodger, Simon and Jo,
Thank you for your kind words and support! I will add installments of the various accessories in MUCH more brief form in separate threads as the machine is matured.
One of the first projects for it is to make new gib screws for the cross slide, as I only had 1 of 8 installed last night!.....that shows what a good bearing can do as it whizzed through a deep cut in tool steel like it wasn't even there.....I have no doubt I could recreate the old South Bend marketing picture with the little 9 peeling a seemingly massive chip....
Thanks again!....
Dave
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Dave,
You can be proud of your terrific accomplishment! We enjoyed the trip with you. Now, happy turning as you make real things with it, as it is a model for all of us.
Mosey
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What more can I say :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Best Regards
Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ45Q7ZuTEs
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Dave, be proud of you achievement my friend, you have done yourself proud with your persistence and perseverance. It has finally paid off for you. Well done buddy and I will send you a certificate for completing the Electrical coarse as well............ :happyreader:
Well done!
Don
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So yes....it was for you!
Ah great! I feel honored. And thanks for the nice compliment and reference to my videos.
No, absolutely not meant sarcastic, I forgot about the vid where I stick my tongue.
:cheers:
Nick
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What more can I say :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Best Regards
Bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ45Q7ZuTEs
THAT my friend was awesome...I can't think of a better piece of music for the occasion!.... :praise2:
Thanks Buddy! :ThumbsUp:
Dave
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So yes....it was for you!
Ah great! I feel honored. And thanks for the nice compliment and reference to my videos.
No, absolutely not meant sarcastic, I forgot about the vid where I stick my tongue.
:cheers:
Nick
Thank you!
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Dave, be proud of you achievement my friend, you have done yourself proud with your persistence and perseverance. It has finally paid off for you. Well done buddy and I will send you a certificate for completing the Electrical coarse as well............ :happyreader:
Well done!
Don
Don, you have been a stalwart supporter of this journey...and a very good friend...I wouldn't have the VFD if it wasn't for you, to say nothing of all your "electron plumbing" advice....something Bubba knows I can't ever get enough of! ....Thank you!
Dave
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Dave,
You can be proud of your terrific accomplishment! We enjoyed the trip with you. Now, happy turning as you make real things with it, as it is a model for all of us.
Mosey
Your comments are very kind my friend!....thank you for all your support through this!...and I'm very glad you enjoyed it as much as I did having you along!
Dave
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Congratulations, looks great and am looking forward to seeing what you make with it :cheers:
Me Too!....I can't wait to get some projects on it!
When I took the first cut...and chips feel everywhere...I was horrified!....it's not clean!..... :lolb:
I'm over it now.... :whoohoo:
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IT'S ALIVE!!!
Nice one Dave.
Vince
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Thanks Vince!
Dave
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I have just glanced through this thread and I am impressed with all your rebuilding/remedial work. This looks like a carbon copy of my Hercus. I guess they are clones of some description.
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Thanks for the kind comments Pat!
As I understand it, Hercus built Metric SB9's for Southbend!....they are clones!
I used the old girl to make the gib screws today...Now I need to make some jam nuts!
It needs a collet stop, and a carriage dial indicator stop. MLA has the indicator stop casting that's worth it...probably order it.
Need to design a 3C collet stop...unless someone has one!
What are we going to Name the old girl anyway?.......Where's Eric!? 8)
Dave
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Dave, very nice :whoohoo:
Now we need photos with chips.
:DrinkPint: Dan
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When I got up a 2am this morning and read your last post and watched the video I said, after two nights of heaven the boy is gonna sleep in late this morning. I got busy and am just now getting a chance to say congratulations. That video is " As Smooth As Tennessee Whiskey". I know you are all sh$t's and giggles. I would be. A .250 cut, now BooBoo is jealous and wants to try it. Hey, how bout Chinese and Mai Tai tonight to celebrate :stir: :LittleDevil: :DrinkPint:
Yo Redneck,
Eric
Hey, A Triple Crown :LittleDevil:
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OK Samantha Bell it is!... :lolb:
Hell I'll drink to that!
Dave
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Hey Don,
I set the belt to the high speed pulley....which is about 1100 actual...or about twice as fast as last night Can't even tell its going any faster.
SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!
:cartwheel: :pinkelephant:
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Hey Don,
I set the belt to the high speed pulley....which is about 1100 actual...or about twice as fast as last night Can't even tell its going any faster.
SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!
:cartwheel: :pinkelephant:
Great Dave, glad it worked out for you buddy. I been having one to put on my Myford just haven't got around to installing it. So maybe I will do a thread on programming it and installing it. What do you thing about it?
Have you used your QCGB to check the speed with?
Don
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Hey Don,
No I measured actual motor rotation vs spindle rotation...
Dave
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Hey Don,
No I measured actual motor rotation vs spindle rotation...
Dave
Cool bud!
Don
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Thanks for the kind comments Pat!
As I understand it, Hercus built Metric SB9's for Southbend!....they are clones!
I used the old girl to make the gib screws today...Now I need to make some jam nuts!
It needs a collet stop, and a carriage dial indicator stop. MLA has the indicator stop casting that's worth it...probably order it.
Need to design a 3C collet stop...unless someone has one!
What are we going to Name the old girl anyway?.......Where's Eric!? 8)
Dave
Is that an ER32 collet stop? You might try them (very tasty) on your lathe.
Mosey
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Ah, that is great!
Nice to put a ... voice and a face to the nickname, Dave ;)
bravo, and take care,
tom
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I seem to remember your puss on a youtube vid.....think you stuck your tongue out at Nick too!
:lolb: :lolb:
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Man, all of this since Monday, and you got 4 more days off. I see no reason you can't get the Wallaby running >:D Samantha Belle certainly seems willing and able :ThumbsUp:
Eric
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The other thing missing is the fiducials for the scale on the compound...and the tailstock set over...I'll get them put in this week....
Dave
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Thanks for the PM and heads up Dave. I'm very glad to see your achievement. I've been watching this thread a long time.
I was horrified!....it's not clean!.....
If it were clean...it would be unused...and therefore worthless.
This has more value than new.
Which is sort of the way I view myself...battered and old, but priceless. ;D
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Damn Carl! You shouldn't lead with your chin like that - lucky I'm a gentleman! :Lol:
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I'll cap this thread with a family portrait of the lathe and all the attachments.....soon.
Dave
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This will be like the last episode of M*A*S*H or something. Are there any sequels in your future there Captain?
Whiskey
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Not really,,,just a final picture....the rebuild or fitting of the accessories I have will be seperate threads.....but I'll show them.
Vertical Milling Slide
Bed mounted turret
Lever action cross slide
2 steadies
1 follower rest
Collet tooling
Tool post
drill chucks
faceplates
chucks
Ect......
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Way to go Dave what a smashing job you've done, I've been quietly watching you make progress almost from the start and it was a master class.
I have a bit of a soft spot for South Bend Lathes as the first lathe I got my sticky hands on was a South Bend back in 63, they are realy a first class machine.
Stew
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All I can say is that this is an EPIC achievement. Well done that man :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :praise2:
Tim
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Thanks guys for the nice comments!,......but I'm glad it's over! :insane:
Dave
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Alright....NOW we're done.
Here's a photo of where we started.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/P1310067.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/P1310067.jpg.html)
And the original plan
Re: SB 9 Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: 11 August 2012, 14:47:32 »
Quote
Modify
Remove
Split Topic
One of the first things I did was to come up with a plan for what I wanted it to be.
The SB is advantageous because parts are readily available for them. Its the right size for small work, and there are lots of specialized accessories that can be purchased or made.
I decided I wanted the following
T slotted cross slide
tool post mounted drill spindle
tool post mounted milling spindle
Milling attachment
indexing head for the spindle
Steel base
3 jaw
4 jaw
faceplates
steadies
drill chucks
full collets
and QCTP.
I decided I wanted to use a AXA wedge toolpost so I could keep that in common with my Logan tooling.
One of the first parts I made was the T slotted cross slide,,,,,and I'll post on that next
Dave"
And ....after a good deal of work, and resources!....here's a family portrait!.....the family needs to get a bigger couch!
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-15-38_674_zps8d4449f6.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-15-38_674_zps8d4449f6.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-24_833_zps53416c2e.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-24_833_zps53416c2e.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-40_273_zps0a5dfd2c.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-40_273_zps0a5dfd2c.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-17-15_571_zps4fc4cf51.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-17-15_571_zps4fc4cf51.jpg.html)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-17-05_830_zpse318cb1b.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-17-05_830_zpse318cb1b.jpg.html)
The bottom draw in full of 3C collets, and I have 10 holders for the AXA toolpost.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-48_509_zps0758ef3a.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-48_509_zps0758ef3a.jpg.html)
Bed turret....that will need to be painted and fitted....
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/mcandrew1894/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-54_816_zps514595b4.jpg) (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/mcandrew1894/media/Southbend%209A/2013-07-16_22-16-54_816_zps514595b4.jpg.html)
Drill chuck and tap/die holder.
I have a couple of tooling projects yet....scraping the vertical slide, fitting the bed turret, a bed mounted dial indicator, cross slide stop ( Thanks Jim!)
Those will come in separate threads....
With that I'm closing this thread. Onward...I have the lathe I wanted for small work...no excuses!
Thanks for all the support!...Couldn't have done it without my friends!..
Dave
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That is Damn nice buddy.
Don
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Amazing! Two steadies? How many does a person need? ;D
Simon
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It's a 4 1/2' foot machine Simon. If it's long and skinny.....you just might need two.
It came with the steadies....who am I to judge!
Dave
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I did a bit of digging on the original owner....though I can't pin it down exactly
I was able to find the second owner....I being the 4th .....
He got it from a tool and die shop which at one point in time in my town you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a tool and die shop. The second owner has a heavy truck maintenance shop and he used this lathe to true starter and generator commutators. ...that dates when he used it!.... He remembered giving it to my brother about 15 or so years ago, and it was the best one!...he had 6! It was bought at an public auction by the second owner from one of the aforementioned Tool and Die shops, though he named 2 possible auctions...the memory is pretty faded. This may explain the weird painted numbers on the side of the gear guard when I got it...it had company in its original home. He remembered it had a full set of collets though....I sent him a before and after picture...in the faint chance he gave a rat's backside....but ....interesting bit of history....I wish machines could talk.
Dave
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Just a little update....it's been a while with "Samantha Bell" About 2 years! She's been doing yeoman work and everything I'd ever ask of her.
many a part for RC racers and items at work have been made....
I have not had any issues, she does what she's told and very well...
Dave
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Dave-
Reading your previous post, did you contact Grizzly? For a modest fee they can tell you when and who it shipped to. That's where you South Bend guys are lucky. I would give anything to know the history of my Rivett. There is something romantic about old machine tools and the parts that they made.
-Bob
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Actually I did....it showed that it was sold to a machine dealer...but no knows who that person was. I know where it ended up...at least 4 owners previous....
Dave
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Very nice restoration. Always great to see an old machine given a new lease of life.
:ThumbsUp:
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I've got a tight tolerance bronze bushing I need to make. 20mm bore, 25mm OD 3.5" long, turned from solid....to do it, I need to hit the bore from one end....and it needs to be taper free.
Well It's been a few years since I REALLY checked the lathe, so I dropped my MT3 test arbor in ( 12" long... .0003" TIR at the very end...nice piece!)
It showed .001" taper over 12" hmmm....it's very even, and no changes...just one long taper...so it's probably bed twist.... I adjusted the SB bed twist adjuster on the right hand foot, and brought it in to less than .0003" in 12" total taper, and it's " linear"....ie it changes uniformly from one end of the bar to the other. That implies that the wear on the bed/saddle is negligible over the last 6 years since I finished the rebuild.....lathes wear the most right in front of the chuck, and I can't see any.. ( it was over 6 thou when I started the rebuild)
Very satisfying.....
The bed twist adjustment is VERY sensitive.....and needs to be done with care....but.....
Can't wait to turn and bore some bronze!!!
Dave
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Awesome Dave, I need to do some work on my lathe too. Got to any irons in the fire lately..
Don
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Hi
It looks like you have that sorted .we forget the important setting up for the early machines the modern
machines with much stiffer beds arn't quite so sensitive to setting up and lots of the beds now have hardened
ways and alloy materials don't wear as quick as the plain iron left soft.I have not long ago sean an 1930 machine with a 4 metre bed with had little noticeable wear near the head stock it would still turn parallel over a long distance likely it was not used for lots of short parts.we forget the important levelling on some older machines.
John
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The lathe is good, and after the rebuild is exceptional. But as you state, some lathes are more flexable than others. Southbends fall into that catagory. But all lathes move around and should be releveled and check periodically.
I can find no wear at all since the rebuild, but its real easy to put a twist in a bed...put a indicator on a piece of stock and righten and loosen the the drive belt you will be amazed.
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Got up at 5 am this morning...and cut that bushing 20 x 24 x 81 long.......I can't measure a difference between the ends.....dead parallel....within a handful of tenths anyway.....very pleased....
Dave
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Hi Dave, hope all’s well with you and yours.
I just finished rereading this thread, a favorite of mine, after so many years away from the forum.
So many gems, excellent write up. I was sorry it ended after only 50 pages.
:happyreader:
Be well,
Tom in MA
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Hi Dave, hope all’s well with you and yours.
I just finished rereading this thread, a favorite of mine, after so many years away from the forum.
So many gems, excellent write up. I was sorry it ended after only 50 pages.
:happyreader:
Be well,
Tom in MA
Check your pm..
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Checked! Let’s Email for a weekend chat