Model Engine Maker
Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: J.L. on June 01, 2017, 02:36:09 PM
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Hello,
This build has been made possible due to the kindness and generosity of Tom Saunders (aka Wagonmaker). Many have been following Tom's eight page build where he is coupling the well known Stuart beam engine to a winding machine and incorporating both machines into a 1:12 scale diorama.
Tom has passed the torch to me by offering to sell the beam engine portion of the project.
Tom, I hope I can bring your dream of a diorama for this classic Stuart model to life. Let's consider this first page Page Nine!
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We begin by having a look at the cast iron base of the Stuart model. It was definitely designed to be a stand alone base that would be put on a table. However, since this project involves a diorama of a building with wood flooring, raised plinth, walls and windows, the tall casting would be overpowering and a bit out of place.
An alternative base was considered. But building a new base from scratch would lose the iconic word 'Stuart' and the nicely cast crank sump. So it will be cut down.
A mock-up prototype model is in the works.
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Wow............it doesn't take you long to get going on a new project! :whoohoo: It's going to be fun to watch this build evolve. :popcorn:
Jim
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Thanks Jim,
Yes, one project seems to flow into the next. I think I like to keep myself busy and my mind occupied with these builds. It keeps my mind off other health issues that have been a concern of late.
The model engineering is therapeutic. :)
Cheers...John
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That's what I did with mine, cut it down to about 3/4" tall and made a new matching block to support the outrigger pedestal.
You can either add mounting lugs around the side or just drill them through from above, maybe add a disc around the hole to look like a cast boss.
Don't throw away what you cut off, the thin cast iron is ideal for making things like valve chest covers.
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Great to see you off on a new project John. As I recall the Stuart Beam Engine is a rather large model? What size is the flywheel?
Bill
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I'll be following along here too, John. :happyreader:
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Hi Jason,
Thanks for the tips. I will be leaving the base quite a bit taller - I want to save that cast sump. About 1 1/14" tall. I will also be saving and cutting down the outboard pedestal.
Hi Bill,
Thanks. The flywheel is 13/16" thick at the rim and 7" in diameter. The bore is 7/16".
Hi Adam,
Good to have you looking over my shoulder. ;)
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You can always cut out the wooden base to take some of the sump depth if needed.
Talking of flywheels I'm not keen on the six cast lumps where the spokes meet the flywheel, the earlier 7" Stuart flywheels did not have them and you don't see them on real engines and it seems whoever is doing their publicity models tends to leave them on rather than machining them off. The only use I can think of for them is if bolting two together for the twin Victoria.
J
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Hi Jason,
I appreciate your experience and observations very much. I thank you for them. :NotWorthy:
I had not thought of just cutting around the sump casting and letting it lower itself into the base material. This may change my thoughts about the height of the base.
I also appreciate your observations about the lugs at the ends of the spokes. I think you've hit the nail on the head surmising that their only use would be for fastening with bolts. I'll have to think on that one - the lugs are almost iconic to Stuart design. Again, you are right about them not appearing on rims back in the day.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
John
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I'm not quite sure when they changed to only doing the lugged flywheel, I have a 1989 catalogue which shows all the 7" flywheeled engines without them, could have been when they moved operations to the channel islands. Maybe the plain pattern was lost or damaged at some time so they used teh twin Vic one for all engines.
They do machine off easily enough, this engine I built in 2007 had the lugs but I turned them off whiole doing the rest of teh flywheel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/07-11.jpg)
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Beautiful photo. Beautiful model Jason.
You've convinced me. The lugs go.
Here is the flywheel on the Benson cast at the Poly Model Engineering foundry.
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Looking Good John. Do check the plan for the shaft size on the flywheel. I may have changed it to mate with the winding engine. I always liked the lugs on the flywheel, but most didn't.
I checked the Corian and it is only 11 1/2" wide ... and 33" long. Will that be any good to you?
Tom
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Tom, you are not going to believe this but this morning I determined how much flooring I would need behind the engine and drew a line 3" behind the base of the pier. Guess what?
It measures 11 1/2" !!!
So yes, the Corian piece will be perfect.
Thanks ,
John
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I find building a mock-up when designing a prototype is most helpful to avoid surprises when construction begins.
Here, foam board is being used to determine the size of base parts. Quite often I find I oversize parts. It is so easy to slice off a little bit here and there to bring everything into nice proportions and scale.
Tom has put me away ahead of the game by machining some critical parts at this stage. The bearings and flywheel determine the size of the flywheel pit and the location of the outboard pedestal.
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Jason, I took your suggestion and lowered the cast iron base from 1 1/4" to 1" on the mock-up. That 1/4" reduction in height was significant. It let the base settle down so nicely. And as you note, any casting protrusion exposed below can be cut into the Coiran floor material.
Thanks. :ThumbsUp:
John
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Lowering the brick plinth mean altering the depth of the flywheel pit.
This picture is not pretty, but it is an example of what I mentioned above. With foam board, it is so easy to make alterations to prototype changes.
The depth of the pit has been changed three times as seen here...
The pit will be lined with brick and the floor tiled with cement tile.
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John........it's fascinating seeing how your thought process is working through this engine building/diorama exercise. :praise2:
Also, thanks for the pic of the flywheel. I see the lugs that Jason mentioned. Personally, I like the flywheel he shows with them removed much better.
Jim
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Very interesting to see your careful design process illustrated in the photo sequences , John. Certainly, making the physical mock ups has paid dividends in the visualisation of the end result. I know that this will before too long be another lovely model in an appropriate setting! Dave
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Thank you Dave and Jim,
The prototype continues with the determining of the floor height around the engine. The column is six feet high. The cast iron engine base, steel engine plate and brick plinth add another 1 1/2 feet. That puts the floor of the gallery at 7 1/2 feet.
This is good. Take away the distance of the beams under that upper floor and the headroom is 7 feet.
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Tom's Google research on page four of his thread showed many sketches of beam houses. I noticed in most all of the houses that the upper floor was located level with the entablature. This meant that the beam bearings were at or above the floor level.
I have never been thrilled with the Stuart design of the entablature beams. They extend outward to support bearings and then just seem cut off unlike the Stuart Major Beam, where there is a nice rounded nose to join them.
Here, in a rectangular hole in the floor, the abrupt beam ends will seem have a purpose being cut as they are.
Notice in the second photo the stairs rising to the upper floor. Interesting.
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Those seem to be larger engines, on the fiorst pic if you take 3ft as a common railing height then that is a considerably larger engine than the Stuart. The second engien has a 10-11ft flywheel and also has the beam a lot higher above the top of te flywheel than a stuart.
To have a hand rail like teh first photo would need an engien with a flywheel about this size say 14ft
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A8vTLHcOFU8/Tlp5STwSc2I/AAAAAAAABWI/gI1njzOKbo0/s1600/DSC03453.JPG)
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Hi Jason,
Yes, much, much larger works than we are working with here. The column on the Stuart Beam is only 6 feet high. However, in a small beam house, a 7 foot ceiling height could be normal. Ceilings in my home are 8' on the main floor and 7' in the basement. I added a family room off our dining room on the main floor, with a step down of one foot and notice quite a visual difference with a ceiling height of 9'.
So, I think the 1:12 scale will allow for an upper gallery or floor at the 7.5' level.
Cheers...John
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Having worked in many victorian and edwardian houses 12-14ft ceilings are not uncommon, commercial properties and engine houses would have been built to suit the engine
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Yes Jason, our roof will be 15' high from floor to roof out in front of the upper beam gallery.
John
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Bob Gordon's booklet "Model Steam Engines" published by Shire Library has a photo on page 10 that I would love to show here in this thread. However, it has a copyright restriction.
It shows a three story beam house with the engine on the second floor. Downstairs, the large flywheel can be seen through arches. The beam passes through a hole in the third floor. Above that, a section of roof with rafters is represented.
Rather a neat doll house!
A lot can be gleaned by just looking at photos of model dioramas in these publications. On page 14, metal stairs decent to the boiler room in the basement. The horizontal mill engine on the floor upstairs sits on chequered black an white flagstones.
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Maybe thats where we differ, I would always prefer to look at old images of actual engines rather than other models where you never know how much artistic license has been taken. George Watkins series of books are very good for this as he captured the last days of steam before many of these engines were scrapped
I was talking about 1 storey being 12-14ft not ground floor to roof :)
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Jason,
I think we are confusing each other. This will be only a one storey room 15 feet tall. I think I have misled you by referring to 'a floor above'. It's not really. It's just a gallery that projects out into the room to the front of the entablature. ;)
A narrow staircase will lead up to it on the left.
John
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John, as long as you just post the picture you mentioned and give credit to the author/publisher, that should be ok. You are doing so for illustrative purposes only.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I think you are right. When I was teaching, there was some descression in making photocopies of copyrighted material in the classroom for educational purposes.
Thanks for stepping in on this one. However, rather than muddy the waters further I will go ahead with my design. Artistic licence may rear its ugly head as I continue...
Cheers...John
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Here we go with designing the walls around the engine. The foam board is far too high at this point (20 feet), but it sets the stage for planning the gallery and windows.
One problem that can occur when building a diorama around a model engine is not being able to service it if something goes wrong. How do you get to the engine? :shrug:
The second photo shows plans to make the whole beam room detachable. Remove five bolts and the enigne is totally accessible.
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Your planning process is most interesting to see John. The time spent now with foam will no double save countless hours down the road as far as those " gee, I wish I had done it different moments."
Bill
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Hi Bill.
I agree. You wouldn't know the number of times I've made alterations to this mock-up - even changed directions along the way.
The mock-up of the column and its beams allows the height of the gallery to be determined. It looks as though the gallery floor will be almost 8' above the main floor.
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Having a few pieces of the enigne underway already has made it so much easier to envision where this project is going.
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Wow John ... You'll have it running next week!!
Looking Good so far.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Well, your work has made this prototype develop so quickly. Things will come to a screeching halt when I begin working with the metal...
Designing the staris up to the gallery is underway. It wouldn't meet modern codes for width, but I think maids and servants scuttled up closeted backstairs with bedwarmers and chamber pots on stairs much narrower than 36" back in the 1800's. I don't think there would have been much differnce in industry. Access to the gallery could have been by a vertical ladder as shown in Jason's photo.
The stairs will have to break to a landing and turn 90 degrees half way up.
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You may be able to save yourself having to do a landing if you go for steeper stairs, many were more like you would find on a ships engine room maybe 70degree slope unless you fancy a spiral ;)
I sent you a message earlier too
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JL.... I remember in the early 1960's when machinery loft platform access was via near vertical step/ladders......yes with cast handrail uprights & cast segmented stair treads
These ladders would have been installed in the early 1900's and were for access to the top structure of vertical extrusion presses ....the extrusion presses were built for the forerunners of British Insulated Callender's Cables [BICC] & exported to their Australian subsidiary Companies
Derek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Insulated_Callender%27s_Cables
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Looks like a very interesting project - I'll be following along!
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Good information Derek. Thanks.
Glad to have you aboard Rivergypsy!
The stairs design is almost complete. Many mistakes and missteps were made along the way. But as many have said, now is the time to make them and correct them.
One necessary modification is glaring. Can you see it? Look at the last picture. There is no support for the edge of the gallery floor above at the edge of the stair opening.
A post will have to be installed all the way up from the main floor. That means the engine and stairs have to be brough forward.
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Can you not extend the post supporting the half landing up so it also picks up the end of the long trimmed joist that runs along the side of the beam opening? This would then support the trimming joist that runs parallel to the lower stair which would in turn support the trimmer joists that run from th eend of teh beam opening to the trimmer.
This is based on the main joist direction being inline with the engine although your boards suggest it goes the other way but that is an unknown span, where would the remaining wall be if it were included?
J
PS I hope you know your trimmed, trimming and trimmer joists from one another ;)
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Problem solved. :)
A post now extends from the main floor to the gallery floor uninterrupted. It also supports the new landing. It is located out far enough to not interfere with the stair railings.
Jason, the answer to your question is in the photograph you posted in my thread. The two red columns seen there would support the beams coming forward from the back wall. The model is being sectioned back from those columns, but we will see the butt ends of them under the flooring and where their bricked plinths are located on the main floor below.
As I proceed with this protoype, I am beginning to realize that there is too much building in the diorama. It is starting to take away from where the focus should be - on the engine. Therefore plans are changing. The back wall will be cut down significantly.
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Determining how many bricks to order...
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Perhaps some of the building could be removed in the form of large windows? :naughty:
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An elegant solution John, and more importantly one that should keep you from having to move the engine out as you had noted earlier.
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
Hi Adam,
That is a very good suggestion. However, things fell into place when I realized that trying to model the area above the gallery was not necessary. I was stuck on big windows (as you mentioned) and even part of a hip roof up there.
To my eye, the solution was to cut off the upper portion of the walls. First I cut off 4 1/2' - still too high. Then I cut off another foot. Bingo! :)
As well, I don't have to model windows up there at all now. Not even sure I need a window downstaris in the west wall.
The east wall is going to be cut away with a sweeping curve downstairs. I want freeboard space to work the lubricator and have a nice site line to the valve travelling up and down.
So this brings to a close the construction of a prototype for this beam engine project.
Thanks all for the input.
Cheers...John
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Love it - keep up the good work!
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Thank you!
As far as cladding is concerned, I have a beginner's question. How do you wrap the brass bands around a Stuart cylinder when cladding? In most photos I see, the bands are not at the ends of the cylinder, but rather in about 6" from the upper and lower edges.
But to my mind this is not possibe - the steam chest is in the way of a band running all the way around the cylinder.
If packing were put in place as well as the insulation to fill the gap between the cylindar casting and its flange, a band would grip the flange edge at both ends of the cylinder. But as I have said, the bands don't seem to be at the edge of the flanges.
Curious.
John
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For an engine like the stuart beam where the valve chest does not extend the full length of the cylinder the banding can be bent flat against the part of the casting that contains the steam passages as shown at the top of the attached sketch. This is how I did mine and I left about 1/16" of wood showing between band and the cylinder covers which means there is still some of teh cylinder flange under the band so it woun't distort the cleading.
On engines where the steam chest runs the whole length of the cylinder the banding is bent outwards so it runs along the side of the valve chest or the flat sides of the cylinder where the valve ports are cut into. As shown at the bottom of the sketch
If the cylinder has drain cocks it is often not possible to get the bands right at the ends so they have to be set back to clear the cocks, packing can be added below the bands to make sure the cleading is not pulled inwards and also gives something to glue the planks to. You can see this method if you look at the Photobucket album I sent you of the Tidman engine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/EastonandAnderson/IMAG1186.jpg)
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Thanks Jason,
Love those planks of yours. Beautiful photograph.
Still trying to figure this out.
John
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Today the machining of parts began.
A 2' steel square base is bolted to the bottom of the cast cylinder with six #3-48 hex head scaled bolts.
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Ain't no grass growing under your feet John. The parts look great!!
Bill
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The hobby keeps me going Bill. Thanks.
I'm calling this Day2, but without Tom's work, it could very well be Week 2!
The top cover for the cylinder is now ready for its gland.
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Among the extra bits that Tom brought me, were five brass glands. I think three of them are for a Stuart #9.
Amongst them was this one; bored to 3/16" with a boss too large to fit the cylinder cover. I was pleased that it could be pressed onto a turned mandrel in the lathe without the need of a retaining nut. It turned beautifully down to size.
Forgive the inconsistant height of the studs around the cover. They were quicky screwed in for these photos.
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The exhaust port is drilled 3/16" dia. to break into the cast cavity.
The hole broke through a bit off centre and chewed a little bit into one of the steam port webs! :-\ This could have been disastrous :facepalm:, but fortunately, it just left a little groove on the outlet side of the web. The web remained secure on its inner face. :)
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Tom noted that the inlet steam ports were not of equal size as you can see in this first picture.
A little bit of filing made them look a little better.
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You are moving right along John. Looks Good so far.
Tom
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Very nice photo sequences, as always, John, and great progress too! Are you using a rotary table or dividing head for drilling off the various bolt hole and stud PCD's, or do you use the facility on a milling m/c DRO...? Dave
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Hi Tom,
Thanks. Remember, this was your machine. I am hoping to continue your excellent beginnings. :ThumbsUp:
Hi Dave,
I fly by the seat of my pants basically. I do have a rotary table to step off the 60 degree increments, but everything else is either by eye or by vernier calliper.
Thanks for asking,
John
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JL...
Will you be using an oiled paper gasket between the base cap & the cylinder barrel or a smear of Hylomar Blue?
From a practical point, both would elevate your cylinder ports position axis by approx. 0.003".........which may or may not concern you
Secondly, will you be machining these two landings for cylinder drains?
Derek
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Hi Derek,
Yes, the drain cock holes have been drilled and threaded.
I have both the gasket paper and the gasket glue available. Haven't decided yet which to use.
Did you clad your cylinder?
John
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JL.....the cylinder drains will not only look good, but also be functional on start-up
With respect to Hylomar Blue, I have instructed the use in full size machinery and understand the design concept superiority, particularly with the likes of automated NC engine assembly, however I have reservations in the use of the same Blue sealant for our model steam applications
By example, the only way to ensure the resultant specified liquid material thickness is maintained to use non deformable plastic slithers as spacers .....this in itself is certainly not impossible even with your 2 bolt oval flanges as shown .....but :Doh: & :headscratch:
The age old coarse [0.003" to 0.004"] envelope paper ....cut & soaked with light oil for 24 hours & installed would be suitable for the application
[yes I have lagged my engine cylinders to match the boiler & ancillaries .....+ a standard R/C servo & hand actuated boiler make up water pump etc...the latter are shown in the last images].....
Derek
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Interesting project Derek.
The cladding of the Stuart cylinder begins with the profile shaping of the first two planks to surround the drain cock. The wood is an exotic hardwood with a natural reddish colour. I believe it is used in the making of musical instruments.
The planks are 4 in. in width but thicker than normal to bring them out to the edge of the cylinder. In the real world, blanket insulation would naturally take up part of this distance. I cheat. :facepalm2:
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The base, Part #1 is no longer a paperweight. It has been cut down to a cast bed that will sit on a brick plinth.
Now the task is to machine four lugs to fasten it to its engine plate.
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When the cast iron base was cut down, the mounting lugs were lost.
Here, the first of four slots is being cut in the base to accommodate new ones.
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The lugs were designed to wrap around the end wall of the base as seen here. This will allow for better fastening than just straight tabs.
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Nice way of "getting new tabs" :ThumbsUp:
How are you going to attach them - glue or solder ?
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I think the cast iron wall should be thick enough to get something like a #5-40 CSK screw in which would be my preference
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Hello Admiral_dk,
Thank you.
The lugs have been glued in place with a metal epoxy that dries as hard as glass. Because the base was reduced from 3 ft.to 1 ft., the lugs were proportionally reduced in size as well.
The original lugs in photo two show the casting curve of the metal traditional to all castings. To replicate these curves with lugs that are attached and simply stick out straight, filler was used to create them. Things look a little rough at this stage, but a good file and some time should tidy things up. ;)
Hi Jason,
No, I wouldn't want to drill down into the casting. I'm going with the original Stuart design of four mounting lugs. The holes will be opened out to receive #10-32 studs, washers and nuts.
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I meant drilling up from the bottom, did similar on both my Jowitt models with a smear of JB Weld on assembly and bondo to fillet the internal corrners
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Jowitt%20MkII/DSC00635_zpsxqkpflch.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Jowitt%20MkII/DSC00636_zpsfbz4jjr0.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Jowitt%20MkII/DSC00715_zpsydqpm84g.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Jowitt%20MkII/DSC00801_zpsmtu3dlzc.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Jowitt%20MkII/DSC01402_zpsqafmk8v1.jpg)
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Hi Jason,
Ahh, I see.
As you know, drilling up into the wall of the base was not an option. One was only 9/64” thick at its thickest before it began to taper inward.
I chose to simply glue the lugs into a mortise rather than attempt to thread and screw them up into packing or the underside of the base top.
Beautiful engines and skillful work shown here in these photographs Jason.
The base is shown here clamped to its engine plate for the drilling of the mounting holes. I see that more filing is needed, particularly around the word 'Stuart'. The camera's unforgiving eye is often helpful in catching such things. :)
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It is surprizing what shows up on the camera particularly under a coat of primer. Have you tried one of the "filler-primers" which will fill small pits and are very easy to sand back?
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Yes Jason, I love the high build primers. They can cover up a multitude of sins.
But as you can see, the 'flash' around the word 'Stuart' is raised, so a bit of elbow grease is needed.
I've often mentioned the use of the camera to pick up flaws the eye misses when modelling architecctural buildings. I think the brain sees 'the whole picture' and melds the image together as a whole, whereas the camera zeros in only on its field of view. So what you don't see, the camera does!
Jason, I really appreciate the beautiful finishes you achieve. The smooth palette of steel plate must help.
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John
I have one of these engines waiting under the bench, and I decided a long time ago that the word "Stuart" will be getting machined off the casting. I find it very irritating to look at and it is not representative of anything in full size that I have seen.
Just my 2p worth
Phil
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Phil, you have a pm Terry
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Tangye's engines would be along teh lines of the cast "stuart"
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Wonderful historic shot Jason!
Avert your eyes Phil - the name of this English engineer, whose company has been in business for over 100 years stands.
Jason makes a good point with his photo.
John
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Tom kindly offered me a nice little piece of Corian to use in the making of the plinth and the floor of the beam house.
The dimensions of the plinth are not arbitrary. They are very carefully determined by the number of slipbricks in a span.
In this photo, seven bricks determine the width of the plinth. Once layed out in this fashion, the inner distance is measured.
Notice the 'L' shaped corner bricks. They are the secret to making model brickwork look real at the corners. ;)
Edit:
The second shot shows how the corner brickslips are reversed at the corners to represent full bricks layed in proper order.
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Wonderful historic shot Jason!
Avert your eyes Phil - the name of this English engineer, whose company has been in business for over 100 years stands.
Jason makes a good point with his photo.
John
Each to their own, I am sure yours will look superb as usual. If we all had the same tastes it would get a bit boring wouldn't it.
Phil
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Well said Phil.
John
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Here is the Corian plinth with its engine plate and what will be the planking to be added later.
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The outboard pier also requires a base of Corian. It is machined smaller than the mounting plate so it will appear that the plate is sitting on the brick veneer warpped around the Corian.
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Working with Corian was a first time experience for me. When I first saw a polished piece of it that Tom brought me, I thought it looked like marble - and it was heavy!
But after a few strokes with a Japanee pull saw, I could see that it was just glorified plastic.
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My first experience with it recently on the Tiny base was very positive John. It does cut and machine nicely as you have found out yourself. I would rate is a something more than a glorified plastic though. It won't replace the red oak that I prefer to use in all my bases and even on the tiny the surrounding base was red oak, but I knew there would be some oil/fuel coming from the engine and the Corian seems not to mind that at all, I just keep it wiped off. While good, I don't think polyurethane varnish will hold up as well indefinitely under similar circumstances. I did drill and tap it also and as long as it isn't over-torqued, this worked out very well. Of course that can be done in other "plastics" too but its hard to tap oak for machine screws so that was a plus for the Corian. Now if I can find a local cabinet shop or countertop insntaller and get some drops it would be even nicer. Buying samples from Dupont gets a little pricey :o
Your base is really coming along well!!
Bill
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Bill, I get mine from EBay. You can usually find a decent price for scraps there.
Tony
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Coming along quite quickly John. Corian can be messy to work with, but it does machine nicely and epoxy and crazy glue stick nicely to it.
Cheers
Tom
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Good discussion on the Corian fellows. It will hold threads as you say Bill and CA glue or epoxy will work Tom.
But with 500 bricks, I don't want to mix up countless batches of epoxy. I think I am going to try contact glue.
We'll see.
The colour choice has been made for the engine. Time for a bit of a change. Hopefully this vintage shade of a deeper red will play well with the time.
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I like that color John!! You have an eye for color. The planking looks great too!!
Bill
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Not only is the color great but it will also provide a perfect contrast for the gold pinstriping that I'm sure will appear. :-)
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Thanks fellows.
Bill, the planking is random width southern pine. Pine is prone to irregular staining - perfect for representing an oil stained, well travelled floor. The border around the front of the diorama will be faced with red oak.
Hi Marv,
We think alike. Alas, I do not possess the skills of pinstriping. :-\
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Hi Marv,
We think alike. Alas, I do not possess the skills of pinstriping. :-\
I suppose they sell pinstriping tape but it probably wouldn't look right on a model.
Given the museum quality of the models you produce, think about taking it to a car/motorcycle detailer and having a professional do it for you. Tell him that, if he gives you a sensible price, you'll give him free rave reviews on the internet's premier model engine-making website. If that fails, offer doughnuts. If that fails, offer beer. Work your way up to single malt.
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For those of us that are pinstriping challenged John ...
https://www.beugler.com
Bill
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Bill, that is a fascinating site. Thanks.
Marv,
You are a hoot. I couldn't stop laughing when I read your post. My wife wondered what was wrong and came into the computer room to see why I was laughing so much. Of course, the couple of glasses of wine at supper may have added to the heightened moment. :wine1:
You've made my day.
Cheers...John
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I'm glad I brought a bit of sunshine into your day, John, because a day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
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:)
The foundation for the building begins here. It is raised enough to allow the flywheel to rotate in its pit.
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John, the planking looks like it comes in sheets. Is this something you buy that way or have you fabricated it on something like a backing sheet. If purchased, I would be very interested in knowing the vendor if possible.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Yes, the planking comes in 11" x 17" sheets of real wood glued to backing paper. However, I don't use the sheet as is. Here and there, there are finger joints in some of the plank runs which gives the game away altogether when going for a real planked look. I cut each strip out individually and remove offending sections. Sometimes you don't notice these finger joints until you stain the sheet.
You can't lay down the sheet as is anyway if your run is over 17". A vertical seam down sheets would be a no-no.
You can buy uniform 1/4" planked sheets as well. There is also a variety of wood species. I have a couple of walnut sheets I've never used. Want them?
The company and details are below in the photos.
John
P.S. Handley House, 2 Fourth Street, Wheeling WV 26003 also sells real veneer flooring supplies for dollhouses. But it is cheaper and thinner.
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Many thanks John. I even think I have visited their site before when working on a dollhouse for my granddaughter. Looks like I need to check it out again and bookmark it, though I have no need for planking at the present time.
Bill
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Okay Bill. That sounds like a wonderful project for your granddaughter.
The Contact cement worked like a charm. Acutally too well. There is no forgiveness if you don' t align parts perfectly before placing them. You can see the foundation is a hair misaligned at the left front corner in the second shot. No adjusting it now. It will be sanded flush with the Corian.
When I was building the Benson base, I used the tiles you see in the third picture. There were quite a few left over. They are going to floor the bottom of the flywheel pit.
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The base of the building has gone as far as it can until the bricks arrive from England.
So it's off to work up the cylinder's valve chest. I'm nervous about passing a drill through the open space of the center of the chest and continue into the little nub at the back of the chest without wandering. You can't really have a centre point ready back there to receive the incoming drill. Hmm.... :thinking:
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Unless you have a long series centre drill :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/IMAG0130.jpg)
Failing that turn a point onto a bit of rod, preferably drill rod and use that as a make shift punch, for a one off would not really need hardening. It also helps to file or machine the far end of the cavity so it is flat which will reduce risk of the drill wandering off to one side.
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John, a good solid set-up, a good quality and possibly even new drill, and a good spot drill to get things started off in the right direction and you should be fine. I can understand your concern though. I would of course file away that flash on the far end of the steam chest so you will be engaging a flat surface. Following along on Jason's post, if you have any transfer punches of the right size, that could also give you a spot on the far side.
Bill
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Hello Jason and Bill,
You both have given me the advice and confidence to get on with this task. Thank you both. :ThumbsUp:
Very timely advice as well as I'm off to start work on the chest and its cover now.
John
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So far so good.
Jason, I took the drill out of the chuck and tapped on its end lightly with a brass bar following your idea of marking the centre point down there at the bottom. Here is where an aircraft drill would really come in handy. As you can see, there is not much drill left to chuck. This 3/32" hole has to travel another 1/2" into the casting to support the end of the valve rod.
Might be enough to grab. I could chuck it in such a way as to leave a 1/2" of drill to travel that distance. The chuck jaws would then become the stop.
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Yes!
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Big sigh of relief now eh John? Nicely done :)
Bill
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I knew you could do it John. Well Done
Tom
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Thanks fellows.
Brain surgery done. At least on the brains of the engine as I approach the slide valve...
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Before making the valve rod and its slide, I am locating the holes in the valve chest cover.
When Tom acquired the engine parts, the gentleman before him had done an excellent job of machining the butterfly valve and its brass housing. The first picture shows it closed - the second - open.
Having this housing and valve already built is a huge leap forward in making the valve chest and its parts.
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I made an interesting discovery after drilling the holes to locate the butterfly valve housing on the valve cover. The housing was intended to be used on a #9 engine.
I thought at first that this could be a problem until I had a look at the universal instructions for governor insallations. The VIC./Beam/J.C. and #9 engines all use the same extruded brass stock. So the only difference is not the size of the fitting, but the spacing of the holes: 5/8" CRS with 7 BA or 7/8" CRS with 5BA.
Edit:
I think I am wrong. I found an old 1980 Henley-On-thames drawing #90103 labeled "Details for Building 'Beam Engine' Governor in which the valve cover plate clearly shows the hole spacing for the valve body to be 7/8" spacing rather than the 5/8" spacing.
This does not surprise me at all. Stuart underwent many changes with not only location, but with drawings over their long history. They must have had many inquiries about dinensions during the transitions. There are warnings on later drawings about relying on earlier diagrams.
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The Stuart line of products uses BA thread sizes. They are not available without expensive import into North America.
As I have indicated earlier, a lot of fittings accompanied the beam engine. I found two studs that were intended to be used to fasten the butterfly valve houseing to the cover of the steam chest.
I did not have a 5BA tap or die. This was a shame. The holes were nicely drilled for 5BA and the nuts were proportional.
What to do? Then I looked around for an equivalent American size - #6-40 was close. So British threads meet American threads on the studs; the 6-40 on the bottom so that the holes in the cover could be tapped, and the 5BA on the top to receive the nuts.
International harmony. :)
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Good job again John ... were those studs in one of the wee vials that you "had no use for and you can take them back if you want"? Ya just never know what can be used. Your solution was very clever.
Tom
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Yes, Tom, that little pill bottle contains all kinds of little goodies.
I think I was wrong again about the BA sizing. I think those studs have a 4BA thread on them. No matter, the nuts thread on them and I can thread them into the cover.
The six other studs holding to cover in place will be #3-48 (7BA?)
The edges of the cover may need a little trimming.
John
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Well, I guess there will be no more machining for awhile... :D
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Bricking begins on the raised plinth of the engine.
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Those are really nice John! A shame the come from so far away though. I assume there is not a domestic supply for them.
Bill
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Yes Bill, I really enjoy working with these bricks.
I am also happy to be able to now use only white glue to fasten them. At first, I thought I would have to use contact cement. But the Lepage contact cement is both an eye and skin irrritant. The fumes are also quite strong. So I'm being careful with only the white glue until the grout is applied.
I'm also able to combine a little bit of masonry work and machining. :) I run a course of bricks with glue and let them dry while heading to the shop.
Here is the setup for fastening the valve chest to the cylinder's face.
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Is the white glue in places where water condensate could collect? If so, the waterproof yellow glues like some of the titebond ones might be be. They handle the same, but resist softening again when wet.
:popcorn:
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Moisture is not an issue.
Let's hope the glue holds until things are grouted up.
John
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The grout is drying. All is well.
The flywheel/crank bearing on the base establishes the placement of a lot of parts.
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Since the base of this engine has been reduced from 3' to 1', the outboard pedestal must be adjusted as well.
The intent here is to cut off the head, reduce the height through the web and reattach the head with pins and soften the join with fillets.
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When cut down, the head of the casting became too small. The casting was tapered. A new one was made and tapered to fit. The head was held in place with two tie rods.
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Hi John, watching your build with interest. I like your set-ups, quick question - when you assemble one casting to the next, do you place the casting in the best place to make it look right then adjust the rest of the parts to suit? Or measure it in to the drawing then worry about having to correct the looks afterwards? I've never built a casting kit yet but often see miss-matches and faces that wouldn't normally be machined need to be machined to correct things. So I've wondered whether on my first set to abandon the drawings and make things look / work right. In reality being close to the drawing is not a concern for me. Keep up the good work!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Nick,
Good question. You must consider me a novice at this game. I have worked with a lot of castings, but I'm sure there are fellows here on the site who have strong feelings about the ways and means of machining castings to fit.
For me, it's all about appearance and 'good fit'. If the part has strictly cosmetic considerations, I don't even look at the dimensions. In the case of this pedestal, I knew what the original part looked like and the modified part was adjusted to keep the scale correct. When I machined the head of the pedestal, it just didn't look correct. It was too wide. So, the cant angle of the sides was increased to make that top look correcct.
So, a bit of flying by the seat of your pants as you go along adjusting the size of things. Remember, this is a cosmetic part. The only critical dimension was the final height of the pedestal to match the bearing sitting on the base and the size of the footprint on top of the pedestal to receive the outboard bearing.
Thanks for asking.
John
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The outboard bearing nears completion. Its location will be determined much later when all the hardware has been loaded onto the shaft.
The oil hole is threaded #2-56 for small brass oil cups.
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Still looking great John, and I still love that color too :)
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
The base of the engine is now ready to be mounted onto the base of the diorama. One board of pine flooring (seen in photo 3) established a fence so that the engine plate could be registered against it. The plate was then shifted back and forth along this 'fence' to establish dead centre for the bearing in relation to the flywheel pit.
Note: The flooring will be cosmetically arranged around the engine plate. It does not compromise the stability of the engine plate or the cast iron base of the engine. That's the whole point of using stable Corian as the base material for the project. Several articles have been written warning of the perils of mounting bases and outboard bearings on wood.
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Here we are at a point where the flooring has been laid to the planks surrounding the pit. Once the outboard pedestal has been put in place, the planking can continue.
I didn't mention it earlier, but getting down into that pit was a close fit. I almost got stuck several times as I tried to work the grout into the joints with my trowel. ;)
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John, you have made my day. I was having a bad one until I saw your update.
Tom
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Excellent brick work!
You either need a smaller trowel, or a shop elf holding one!
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Thanks Chris.
Well, it was a tight fit down there. My little ladder helped get me up and out... :ROFL:
I really like the 6" aircraft numbered drills. Here is a classic application for them. They let a hole be drilled at some distance witout fouling the drill chuck on the work.
Unfortunately, I do not have a #29 for #8-32 threads, so this #38 will bet things started.
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One of my cherished tools is my dad's Millers Falls hand drill. It's surprising where it still comes into play all these years later. He must have bought it in his early 20's (born in 1900).
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What a nice hand drill John. looks great for being 90+ years old too!!!! The planking looks great too John, I just saw that picture.
Bill
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Thanks John, it looks great. In fact, I think if I ever do a Stuart Beam or Table engine I will do the same mods. It will look much better with half the flywheel sunk below a base. I was looking for a hand drill the other day but couldn't find it, surprising the number of times I think it would be easier / more controllable using one lately! going to look for a decent quality one at steam fairs as often see them chucked in a box for a few quid.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Glad you found the post useful Nick. Thanks.
Until yesterday, I've been intimidated by the 4-jaw chuck. I would seek alternatives such as the rotary table to clamp and machine awkward parts. And I did try to mill the bosses on this crank with the table. But things were just not concentric.
So I brought out the 4-jaw. Now I must admit, that having holes already drilled in the casting made alignment of the indepemdent jaws easier, but I definitely see the value of using the 4-jaw. After the bosses were cut, the holes could be enlarged with all things remaining concentric.
I don't think I could have done this last year.
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The other trick with the 4-jaw is to realise that not all the jaws have to be the same way round - perfectly acceptable to swap two or only one jaw to face the other way if it makes clamping the part easier.
Simon.
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Thanks Simon. That is good information.
The 1 in. x 42 in. belt sander made short work of finishing the profiling of the crank.
Having the crank in place now makes it possible to locate the outboard bearing pedestal exactly.
Recognize that takeoff pulley? Some will remember an earlier discussion about rope cables on Victoria.
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The Corian is so easy to work.
The location of the holes for the bearing pedestal has been indicated.
It was anaticipated that even working with stable material, drawing up the bolts moves the bearing. Imagine what it would be like working with wood.
So a sample set of brass shims, each of a different thickness was purchased from Lee Valley.
Now the game begins shimming up the pedestal until the axle runs freely with the bearing torqued down.
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The planking is complete. This is probably the last time I will be using planking on a diorama model. After the turn of the century, concrete piers and steel floor plating seemed to take over. I'l miss the warmth of wood and brick.
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Well John, you can always just stay in the 19th century :D. OK, I have to ask, that single broken corner brick in several of the photos, I am assuming you did that for the sake of "realism" right ? :noidea: The planking looks great BTW!!
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
You have a very observant eye. ;)
Yes, that fault is quite purposeful. I noticed it early on, but thought that brick could very well have been dinged and broken by some object. So no attempt was made to repair it.
Thanks for asking.
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I like it John, just one more detail that adds to the entire diorama :)
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
I have mentioned how useful the tapping fixture has been when threading holes. I'm sure it has saved me quite a few taps from being broken.
It is seen here sitting on the table saw with its arm swung round to reach the holes. The base is heavy enough to allow this.
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So here are the tunnions in place. They were glued together and profiled before I received them. All that was required of me was to drill the holes and mount them.
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I have a similar but homemade tapping stand, but I use it mainly for smaller taps, and I turn the tap by holding the chuck. Gives a very good feel that better than turning with a tap wrench. For taps larger than 5-40 I normally use the mill to hold the tap with the same DRO coords as the drill. I can start the tap straight by turning the spindle and finish with a tap wrench.
The last time I broke a tap was when I tried to hold the part in one and and a t-wrench in the other.
Diorama is looking good. I suspect that the wood needs weathering and grease stains.
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Thanks.
I am puzzled why Stuart would allow a blatent error in piston groove depth to continue across many years of drawing changes. In the early days, graphited cord or yarn was used as packing in the groove on the side of the piston - 13/16". The dimension never changed even although o-rings came into use and were shipped as a standard item in every kit.
This o-ring is 1/8" in thickness, with an ID of a little less than 3/4".
Now if you put a 13/16" groove in the piston wall with a litte extra width for compression sideways, you are not going to get that piston in the 1" cylinder - with or without a ball peen hammer!
Too bad. The company shoots itself in the foot with such lapses attention to upgrading details.
John
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I thought that they supplied 3/32" nominal rings which have a 0.103" section as they fit the old iron ring groove with no modification
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Jason, the o-ring John has used is the one that came with the castings and was still in the shrink wrap when I originally got it. Perhaps it was an undocumented change over the years.
Tom
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Yes guys, it is a puzzling error. :thinking:
Early plans called for a 3/8" wide piston. When I bought my Victoria kit in 2014, it had changed to 1/4". Both set of plans kept the 13/16" groove depth dimension. The o-ring for Victoria did not fit either. I had to go out and buy a narrow silicone ring from a hydraulic supply store.
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I'm puzzled - you keep mentioning a 13/16" groove depth on a piston that is less than an inch diameter - how is that possible? :headscratch:
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Base dia of the groove is 13/16" so actual groove depth is 3/32" (1" - 13/16 divided by 2)
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Hi Jason,
No, I don't see that. The base diameter of the groove is 3/4".
John
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John, it was you who mentioned 13/16" back in post #145 and I thought that was where you got it from, my drawings show 13/16" which is for the CI rings and would just come withing the range of a 3/32" O ring.
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Jason, yes,in post 145 I mentioned 13/16" as the measurement on the drawing as you have shown with your photo. That's my whole point - it's wrong. Rings supplied now are at least 1/8" thick. So that's a 1/8" deep groove x 2 = 1/4" + 3/4" = 1 in.
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The collets and their square holders really came into use today. They allowed 1/2" round stock to be squared to 5/16".
The 3/16" piston rod with its attached piston can also slide in backwards to the collet.
I assume the thread length of the piston rod will have to be changed much later when it comes time to fit it to the connecting rod. There will be method waiting now to adjust and thread the rod.
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Adam sent me a picture earlier of a wooden slide valve model he found in a French museum. It is no wonder that such a simple thing as a little block of wood would be modelled and revered in a museum as an item of significance.
But that is exactly what the slide valve became. It was a device that allowed the direction of steam to change the course of history.
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Got your valve upside down, slope should go towards bottom not that it really matters
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Here is the model of the slide valve that John is referring to:
http://phototheque.arts-et-metiers.net/?idPageWeb=95&popUp_infosPhoto=1&infosIdPhoto=9054&interfaceParent=tableLumineuse&PHPSESSID=bbc086f1e36418b57966ff13304c950e (http://phototheque.arts-et-metiers.net/?idPageWeb=95&popUp_infosPhoto=1&infosIdPhoto=9054&interfaceParent=tableLumineuse&PHPSESSID=bbc086f1e36418b57966ff13304c950e)
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Thanks Adam. Haven't found out how to navigate to the picture yet on the site, but what a collection!
The cylinder and valve chest are coming along nicely now. The valve rod will be controlled by a yoke instead of the Stuart designed round cross bar in a square head. This will allow the position of the slide valve to be adjusted outside the valve chest as well as within.
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Hi John,
The link went to the photo when I first posted it, but now it just goes to the main page, sorry. :embarassed:
I'm just posting the photo instead.
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Thank you so much Adam.
This is a wonderful photograph. Look at the loving care that went into the making of the box and the brass knurled demonstration knob.
John
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Hi Jason,
You are right. It doesn't matter. As a matter of fact, as far back as 1993, there was no slope cast in the slide at all.
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What slope are you guys taking about and why?!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Nick,
Here is the slope. Good point. Why is this an issue?
Installing lagging to the cylinder proved a bit of a challenge. I wanted the brass bands to be in scale - no more than 3" wide. That made the fastening very small - #0-80.
I broke one tap in the cast iron trying to thread the very tiny holes. Fortunately there was enough thread at the top of the hole to receive a bolt. The broken tap will remain down there forever.
The bands were made from sample brass shim stock.
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Slope is not really an issue but it does dictate the position of the slot which is off centre (see drawing) so you could be limiting the adjustment available for the length of thread on the valve rod
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The cylinder is temporarily placed on the bed of the engine for a photo shoot....
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Great progress John. It should be running by next week :cheers:
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Good to hear from you. Thank you.
I will be lucky if I get the valve train running by next week! Your flywheel is ready to go to test that. Boy, does it run smoothly. :)
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I like the paint job John ... just what I had in mind.
Tom
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Did you change your mind about machining the lugs off? :stickpoke:
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That pleases me greatly Tom. :ThumbsUp:
Hi Adam,
As you know, Jason brought the fact to my attention that historically those lugs were usually not present on cast flywheels of the time. However, this wheel was beautifully turned and trued by Tom as is. We are both very happy with the result, so no, the lugs will stay in place.
Nicely done Tom. :ThumbsUp:
John
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I'm sure the two valve levers would have been cast. They would have been a pattern maker's delight. After casting, the filers would have to just clean up the forks and have the holes drilled. I say this because the parts are profiled in all cross sections.
Here we see them fabricated in brass without the use of a rotary table.
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Those look the part John, and as for the lugs on the flywheel, now that it is painted, they don't even take away from it in my mind, just another interesting feature.
Bill
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Thank you Bill. I appreciate your positive observation about the lugs.
I was a little apprehensive about trying to make each of the three rotating levers for the valve train out of a single piece of steel. I guess you could call the approach I took as rather amateurish, but it worked for me. Round bosses were turned, holed and milled with a flat to mate a joining member. A little tenon made joining the parts easier and stronger. The parts were soft soldered together.
The process was pictured in my last post as well.
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A work in progress...
These two photos are not the prettiest as they show all the dings and chipped paint as new parts are being fitted. Now that I know the parts will work properly in the valve linkage, I will take everything apart, prime, reprime and paint.
I suppose, since this is a diorama model and not a display model, I could just leave all the flaws. But I'm sure the foreman would have had his men out with their paint pot and brush from time to time touching up the dings. Maintenance with cast and forged iron was probably a constant task on a well maintained engine.
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There are close to forty parts shown here that involve the valve train.
I believe that back in the 1800's flanges were used to join sections of plumbing trees together. Hense the brass flange in the lower right corner of the photo. Today, I think unions are used.
Also, I notice in most period models of steam engines from England, that pipe elbows were cast with large smooth radii. I am not good at bending tubing in such a smooth manner with a large radius, so I cheat a bit historically and use bronze elbows from PMI.
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John for these sort of tight bends I have either modified small plumbing elbows or cross over fittings. Another option is to drill in from two sides of a block and then file the outside to look like a bend.
This
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Muncaster/DSC01346_zpsqx6ykn5j.jpg)
Becomes the bend you can see here
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Muncaster/DSC01374_zpsplxbowvr.jpg)
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Thank you Jason.
Your engine is stunning! I love that soft radius on that clean elbow.
Thank you also for suggesting a method of making them.
Jason, I knew I should have used brass fasteners and washers to fasten the brass bands around the lagging. You will note I used steel. Now that I have seen how handsome your fasteners look at the ends of the brass bands, I will have to change them.
As always, thank you Jason for your input. :ThumbsUp:
Cheers...John
P.S. I changed those set screws on the Benson.
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I think the saying comes from the Royal Navy, If it moves salute it, if it doesn't paint it. In a commercial workshop, thing would be getting a bit desperate if you had time to stop and paint all the dings and scrapes.
An example of the Navy, for a number of years our navy got second hand/refurbished(?)Leander class Frigates, I remember one, when it arrived in NZ it was considered not up to scratch, so they chipped off the extra paint among other things, 9 tons of it, it was a frigate, not a battle ship.
Ian S C
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. You enrich the thread.
John
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Things are moving ahead with just finger tighting to see where the inlet piping and globe valve will be located.
I know I am going to receive criticism about that rubber handle on that lubricator - and rightly so. 1890?
Nevertheless, we are still in the planning stage. I noted that this small lubricator is effective to a top bore size of 1", but I think it looks proportional for the size of the valve chest.
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Oh if you had not of told us I would have thought it was Ebony :-X
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Jason, at first I wondered why PMI would do something like that - i.e. use rubber instead of casting a nice little brass handle like you see on the pictures of the globe valve below. But quite a bit of torque is required to move the handle on that lubricator. The grip of the rubber certainly helps turn the tight needle valve in and out.
Here is the top half of the air intake plumbing tree...
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I think the black offers a good contrast to the brass and maybe even a bit of insulation. It all looks great.
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Yeah, just call it ebony John...we will never tell 😊
Bill
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Okay fellows.
Ebony it is. ;)
When I started drilling the hole down through the floor, I almost forgot that it wasn't a wood floor! :o
It is the little details that I enjoy so much with these dioramas. The hole in the floor begged a floor plate. Why not?
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Another nice touch John, looks so much better (and realistic) than just an open hole too.
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
Can anyone see a major switch that has occurred bwtween these two pictures? :embarassed:
I'm sure some of you have been sitting in the bushes waiting for the penny to drop for me and I would realize my error. :)
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.
Exhaust outlet. ?
Nick
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I can.
I presume you have had a rethink of your plumbing arrangements so things won't clash. Good job you did it before drilling any holes in the base though if you had said you decided to add an extra manhole we would not have known ;)
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Looks like the exhaust outlet has changed sides, though Nick beat me to it :)
Bill
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Very good gentlemen.
There was a lot of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when I discovered my error last Sunday.
But this is a hobby right? The only setback involved was the need to make a new cylinder cover when the cylinder was flipped over to put the cast outlet flange facing the back of the machine.
Today the exhaust system was installed on the accesseble side...
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So here we are with four 'to date' shots.
It might seem premature to install the red oak skirting at this time, but having the trim in place allowed for the installation of quick disconnect air coupling. The air line is in place now, but just finger tightened. I'm sure it will be pulled apart many times while testing and timing the engine.
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Hi John, you are going to wear it out by taking it apart and putting it back together again...
Looks really good.
Thomas
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Looking good so far John. The pedestal and beam will add even more!!
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
Yes, I am looking forward to placing the pedistal on its mount, but want to wait until I have some linkage connected.
That will be a special day. I was so pleased to learn from Tom, that he was planning as well to machine flutes into the column. He had purchased round nosed cutters for the job.
I guess great minds think alike... :Lol:
The task was well beyond my skill level, so I asked for assistance here. Here are two shots sent to me from the machine shop of the grooving process. I have learned that the job was set up with CNC technology, but that manual skill was also employed to maniuplate the cutter along the way.
The results were spectacular.
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That is going to look rather nice John. It is coming together very well.
Tom
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Thanks Tom,
You laid the groundwork for all of this work.
Kudos to you for the superb machining that made this project possible. :ThumbsUp:
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The fluting looks great and will add a lot to the model as well. It's one if those things that you don't notice unless it's not there. 😊
Bill
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The fluting looks great and will add a lot to the model as well. It's one if those things that you don't notice unless it's not there. 😊
Indeed. The White House and Monticello have always looked a bit unfinished to me as compared to the classic styles for just that reason.
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Looks great John :)
I really like the fluted decoration on columns etc so at the risk of asking a stupid question I'm curious to know how you decided how many / what spacing / depth of cut etc would give an aesthetically pleasing look ?
I'd like a some stage in the future to be able to do something similar but without seeing a plan or another fluted column I'd find it difficult envisage what would look suitable before making cuts.
I'm not that clued up on CAD software :-(
Peter
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I like the fluted column, but I'm sure it was within your skill level. Just a matter of having the needed equipment.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Kirk.
You are right. The proper equipment is essential for this kind of job. The lads at the machine shop where the work was done spent quite a bit of time planning the layout and the cutting of the grooves.
The grooves are not the same width as they progress up the column - each one is thicker at the bottom and is feathered out to a narrower width at the top. I think that is why they look so proportional - wide and strong at the bottom and light and delicate at the top.
They sent me the two photos you see above backed up with coloured paper by email before taking the column from the lathe. They wanted my approval before removing it and loosing register. I think they were very proud of the result.
Hi Peter,
As you can see from what I have written above, I did not flute this column. From what I gather, it was not just a case of laying out the number of flutes and offsetting the column to cut parallel grooves of equal depth along the pedistal.
My eyes glazed over when they began to explain how they did this Peter, so I'm sorry but I can't answer your questions.
I have no experience with CNC equipment.
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Hi, This is how i fluted my column on the Bridewell beam engine.....Not wanting to blow my own trumpet/flute my own column !! Tis was quite easy except you have to remember to withdraw the spindle before you re index the cutter!!!. The column was tapered by hand on the lathe and when the flutes were turned it then magically sorted the taper out.......!!Incidentally this was the first bar stock engine i made after making lots of kits. good work going on here, and one can rework kits to produce more to prototype models if you don't mind having a drawer full of random castings !! P.S. Mine was set up using Random bits of metal and finally a steel ruler !
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Thank you for sharing and including setup and completion shots. Kind of you. :cheers:
The only difference I can see in the fluting from what I have in my hands and your flutes are the width of the flutes - your cutter milled all the way along at the same thickness, where on my column the flutes seem to narrow as they travel upward.
This is a Stuart major beam. Right?
Thanks again.
John
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Hi Marv,
Sorry I didn't respond to your observation earlier.
I agree. The flutes make a significant difference. Did you know that the Greeks deliberately canted their columns outward from the centre one? I could be wrong, but I think the idea was to make them appear parallel when viewed from below as most mortals were expected to do as they looked up to their temples.
Imagine, the principle of parallax in Greek architecture.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks for the input Marv.
John
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If the column is tapered then cutting flutes from bottom to top at constant depth will also taper the flutes.
If column is straight then it's necessary to raise the bottom higher than the top using the tailstock.
In either case it's a good idea to test with some bar stock before attempting on the casting.
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FWIW, there's a program on my site for doing the calculations involved with generating tapered flutes. Its name is, surprisingly, FLUTE.
The sheet describing the mathematics involved is attached below. Basically, one specifies the radii of the flute at either end and the length of the flute and the program computes the required inclination angle and depth of cut.
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Hi Marv,
Sorry I didn't respond to your observation earlier.
I agree. The flutes make a significant difference. Did you know that the Greeks deliberately canted their columns outward from the centre one? I could be wrong, but I think the idea was to make them appear parallel when viewed from below as most mortals were expected to do as they looked up to their temples.
Imagine, the principle of parallax in Greek architecture.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks for the input Marv.
In addition to the canting, the diameter of the columns is not constant from bottom to top, this to make them appear cylindrical when viewed from below.
The columns on the Parthenon, and probably elsewhere, were constructed of individual cylindrical "drums" stacked one upon another and then carved in situ after the full height stack was completed. Now consider the difficulties involved in maintaining the correctly varying diameter as the workers carved down from the top of the column.
Each drum has a central socket on its top and bottom surface. A block of wood was fitted into these sockets during erection to aid in alignment. The existence of these blocks was only discovered during the ongoing restoration of the building. Many of the blocks, despite being several thousand years old, were completely undeteriorated. This is vivid testimony to the precision of the fit of each drum to its upper and lower neighbor; centuries of wind and rain have been unable to penetrate the hand-crafted join.
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If the column is tapered then cutting flutes from bottom to top at constant depth will also taper the flutes.
The problem with that is that the ridges between the flutes will then become thicker towards the top. To look correct the ridges should be constant width which is why the flute needs to be deeper at the bottom than at the top so you need to set the column at an angle when milling plus the angle of the taper.
I have not looked closely at Marv's calculations but suspect that is what his cals give.
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Greek columns .......i think the word we are looking for here is ..Entasis ,Imagine fluting that without CNC .....
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If the column is tapered then cutting flutes from bottom to top at constant depth will also taper the flutes.
The problem with that is that the ridges between the flutes will then become thicker towards the top. To look correct the ridges should be constant width which is why the flute needs to be deeper at the bottom than at the top so you need to set the column at an angle when milling plus the angle of the taper.
I have not looked closely at Marv's calculations but suspect that is what his cals give.
I am more in agreement with kvom here. Have done this numerous times albeit in smaller columns but if the columns are tapered then the circumference at the top is less that that at the bottom which also reduces the reduces the width of the ridges as well as the flutes.
The attached photo is from the Vickie build and shows this. To me it keeps things proportional as it should.
Bill
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It seems to me that if the ratio of flute width to column diameter at the level of flute width measurement is kept constant, then the size of the inter-flute ridges will remain constant.
Since my calculations take as input the flute width at top and bottom and the length of the flute, you should be able to keep the inter-flute spacing constant by choosing flute widths that agree with what I said above.
It's left as an exercise for the student to prove or disprove this lemma.
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Hi, i do know a Master Stonemason here in Norwich and i will ask him about all these variables as i am sure he will know exactly what is done in practice. this is something i have not really queried before, and have just done it....So it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.......
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Gentlemen, this is a most enlightening conversation regarding the calculations and processes involved in machining flutes into columns with proportional, pleasing results.
Now I know why it cost me a few dollars to have my column fluted!
I think the winning word gleaned form this discussion is 'entasis'. ;)
For a complete change of pace, I have begun machining the governor. In this first photo, I'm using the method of sandwiching the balls between two steel plates instead of chucking them in a collet on the lathe.
The Stuart 'L' shaped governor arms (photo 2) will not be used on this engine.
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For Ionic fluting which we are talking of here the width of the "unmachined" ridge between the flutes should stay constant (or so small a change at our scales it is not worth considering) the way to do this is to tilt the work by more than the angle of the taper so that the cut varies in depth along the length and leaves the ridge between the two constant. As you can see from the pic below the ridges are constant This will be how I do the column on the Otto and is what is shown on the drawings.
(http://c7.alamy.com/comp/CNPTFH/ionic-order-temple-of-athena-athens-CNPTFH.jpg)
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Should you also wish to have entasis on a turned column then this can be replicated on our machines by holding the bottom of an overlong column in a chuck or collet and then offsetting the tailstock which "bends" the column, then turn the taper and when you remove the tailstock and the column springs back the entasis can be seen if a straight edge is placed against the side of the column. An alternative approximationcan also be done by using the same method that is used for fishbellied columns and turn a slight taper on the top 1/3rd of the column and then blend by filing.
These ones were done using the bending method
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Muncaster/DSC01221_zpslb5ehfah.jpg)
And these the blended taper as it 28mm dia they were too thick to bend.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Cameron%20Steam%20Pump/IMAG3256_zpsc767df33.jpg)
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Thanks Jason,
I did not understand much of what you were explaining in the post above, but I think you summarized well the method of varying the width of the flutes automatically:
..."the way to do this is to tilt the work by more than the angle of the taper so that the cut varies in depth along the length and leaves the ridge between the two constant."
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I have consulted the Master Mason and he says there should allways be 24 flutes, the angles of the flutes ridges are 12 degrees and 3 degrees .ther is also entasis in a fluted column and the concordial angle is worked out by dividing the hight by 8 and reducing the vectors by one .8 was chosen as that is the ratio between footlength and body length. The diameter of the top is then calculated from the base......I shall try and elucidate further......I also got told off for using the F word...fibanachi !!! who only postulated but never made anything !! I am still a bit confused myself so will have to revisit him. also the lwidth of flute to ridge is 1 to 5...........It would be interesting to find out how the CNC person worked all this out ?
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Thanks Willy, I have since found a layout drawing that confirms your 1/5 to 4/5th ratio for a 24flute column which confirms what I said that the ridge between the two at 20% of the feature can really be ignored on our models and it is the groove width that matters the most.
This is a column drawn out using these proportions but just straight sided and the usual 5/6 dia at the top.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/c1_zpsamlgnrzg.jpg)
Now one thing we can't easily do that the stone mason does is to have a half circle at both ends of the groove as we tend to use one bull nose cutter for the whole length, this results in a shallower groove at the top if we are to make the groove narrower as can be seen on this plan view of the column
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/c2_zpsrlop0zab.jpg)
To cut this we need to use the full depth of the bull nose cutter at the bottom of the column, you can see the ctr of the cutter dia lays on the bottom circumferene line of the column.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/c3_zpspn8d1tqe.jpg)
But to get the width of the groove right at the top we need to use less than the full bull nose so the ctr of the cutter needs to be outside the top circumference of the column top
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/c4_zpslpnm5btr.jpg)
So as I said the cutter can not be run at a constant depth to the slope or constant to the column ctr line.
With a Full CNC macnine it would be possible to make many passes along teh groove with a smaller cutter to get a true shape as the masons do but even then depth would vary along the length of the column.
Right enough on fluting back to your build John ;)
3D pdf attached if you want to play with my column
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Thanks again all for all the enlightening information shared above.
This time, I am attempting to round the pivot points instead of leavng them square on governor upper and lower arms. Balls were turned on the lathe and flattened in the mill. This may seem logical and expected to most experienced engineers on this site and they may be rolling their eyes that I have just arrived at this discovery.
But I make no apology for being self-taught. I am enjoying the learning experience.
The fourth picture is just a set up to determine the length of the second lower arm. Just like turning candlesticks, it's not the first candlestick that is the challenge; it's the second!
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Just checking in to see what's new John. Nice looking governor assemblies !!!
Bill
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Balls were turned on the lathe and flattened in the mill. This may seem logical and expected to most experienced engineers on this site and they may be rolling their eyes that I have just arrived at this discovery.
But I make no apology for being self-taught. I am enjoying the learning experience.
Nor should you, John! I'm also self taught, or more accurately, forum taught! :)
And what fun would this hobby be if we stopped learning?
And your results speak for themselves - good looking governor!
Kim
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For those of us that are pinstriping challenged John ...
https://www.beugler.com
Bill
I've had one of those kits for 15 years now. I've yet to pluck up the courage to use it...
John
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Try it on some paper or scrap sheet metal John until you get the feel for it. I am no expert at it by any means but my freehand talents with a brush are nil.
Bill
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Thanks guys,
The assemblies come from Anthony Mount's governor design. They have been upscaled slightly to accommodate larger 5/8" weights.
The governor will be mounted on its own pedestal as it will be gear driven.
Looking forward to prototype designing here.
John
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Beautiful John!! Did you cut the worm gear yourself too?
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
No, I sent to England for a spiral worm gear the same as the one was used in the Benson engine. This single gear is cleverly cut in half.
Now, bevel gears such as the ones Jason used, would have kept the gears in line with the governor, but I liked the look of the spiral gears meshing so nicely.
They will mean more work in designing the pedestal as well.
A good challenge.
John
P.S. Jason, do I have your permission to show the picture of your setup?
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John are you driving the governor with a round belt or shaft? If a belt then you could just twist the belt 90deg like with the stuart governor. If a flat belt then you could probably go either way as the run is quite long so a twist in the flat belt will be OK.
Yes use whatever pics of mine you like.
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Thanks Jason. I don't intend to twist the flat belt at all.
Here is Jason's beautifully designed governor drive system I was mentioning. The bevel gears are in line with the governor's shaft.
Jason, I have a question. I notice on your governor arms and I've noticed on other builds as well, that the pivot bolts are facing clockwise on one side and counterclockwise on the other. Is that just aerodynamic thinking as one would think that the bolt head entering the rotation would always be facing forward? Cosmetic as best, but a nice detail to follow if it was the practise.
John
P.S. Love the pinstripe.
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Keeps things balanced if you have one bolt head and one nut and projecting stud either side of the ctr line. Not that it will make any difference to our models particularly at the slow speeds we tend to run than at.
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They will mean more work in designing the pedestal as well.
The centerline distances between the two shafts will need to be the same as for the Benson. Like you I had to order the gear from Pollymodels and cut it in two.
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Right you are Kirk.
Hi Jason,
Thank you for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. I replaced the slot headed screws with bolts. I think the workmen of the time would have a spanner in the back pocket of their coveralls instead of a screwdriver.
From what I've seem, slotted headed screws were used only for grub screws.
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And they used far less grub screws than we tend to, more things would have been keyed or pined in full size.
Governor is looking good, waiting to see what you come up with for the base and drive arrangement
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And they used far less grub screws than we tend to, more things would have been keyed or pined in full size.
SNIP
Agreed. As I'm an Army trained engineer, we had to make all sorts of old fashioned joints. One of the key ones, pun intended, was a gib and cotter shaft joint. I don't want to hijack the thread, but it's worth looking at this short animation to illustrate the principle. I had to make one at the end of my apprenticeship out of a self cast fork and 2" square steel bar, and it had to run between centres to within 0.004"!
I passed! :cheers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvFECxV16dY
John
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Thanks for sharing. That's what this is all about.
Over the years, designs have changed for the same machines. Case in point here would be the different ways to fasten linkage.
I like straddling the link 'on line' - second photo.
We are getting ready to gear up for the eccentric!
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Hi John
I started machining the valve face tonight, and the book suggests a light cut of around 1/32" to achieve the 7/8" measurement from the centre line of the cylinder. Did you have have to take off a lot more than that as it appears from this casting (from 1993) that I should take off about 1/10"!! I really don't want to spoil it so your help would be appreciated.
I look forward to your reply.
John
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I agree John, not that you need my two cents, but the second drawing looks much better to me, and looks good on the model too.
Bill
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John, I did not machine or polish the valve face on the cylinder I am using in this thread. Tom did. But I would think he was interested in removing a minimum amount of material to produce a clean, flat face. I am but a novice in stating this, but I do not see any advantage in removing a lot of iron and coming ever closer to those lovely rectangular cast in place steam valve openings or the distance necessary for the outlet valve hole.
This picture shows the first cylinder that came with Victoria. I thought a lot of material would have to be removed to bring the valve face flush. It was replaced. Getting a flush face was the concern, not 7/8".
John
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Thanks John, my unmachined cylinder looked just like that. I'll stick with Tom's approach and leave it with the nice smooth face it has now!
John
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You would need to machine off the correct amount otherwise it puts the ctr of the valve chest out of line with the pivot blocks for the valve linkage and before you ask I can't remember what I took of mine 30+ years ago.
Regarding the detail at the end of the valve rod, both types were used in full size and on reversing engines you sometimes find one of each to bring the two offset eccentrics into one plane on the expansion link as shown below. What you don't really see are these ends bolted on, they would have been bumped up to width in the forge, bolts are just to simplify construction on the model rather than cut from solid or solder on the end.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Fowler%20A7/PICT0103.jpg)
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You are quite correct. I just found some other examples and it looks like the man who wrote the book had a smaller casting than me!
I'll take off some more metal...
John
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I agree John, not that you need my two cents, but the second drawing looks much better to me, and looks good on the model too.
Bill
John, I was the one that machined J.L.'s cylinder. I took off as little as possible until I could get a good measurement. If I can remember correctly, I didn't do much more than a light skim a couple of times and it was to size. I left well enough alone at that point and just lapped and polished the valve face.
I believe it is very close to the 7/8" measurement.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for clarifying your treatment of the valve face for John. I knew you would be dead on with your work. :NotWorthy:
The further I go into this project, the more I am realizing just how many variables are going to come into play with all the linkaage. It really is a marvel that our forefathers created these complicated devices that ran so dependably for so long supplying fresh water to cities and performing all other manner of labour saving work.
Hi Jaon.
Your knowledge of these engines is incredible. Thank you for sharing. :ThumbsUp:
John
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I have an interesting aside to share. There are now two John's building the same engine. For me this is very spooky and coincidental.
When I was teaching at an elementary public school eons ago, my best friend's name was John. He taught Grade Four; I had a Grade Six class.
His last name? Madill :)
'Which one?" became a question often asked, until my handle amongst staff became" J.L."
This memory came to me today when Tom referred to me as J.L. when talking about John's inquiry.
I haven't been acknowledged as J.L. in years - except on this site.
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I agree John, not that you need my two cents, but the second drawing looks much better to me, and looks good on the model too.
Bill
John, I was the one that machined J.L.'s cylinder. I took off as little as possible until I could get a good measurement. If I can remember correctly, I didn't do much more than a light skim a couple of times and it was to size. I left well enough alone at that point and just lapped and polished the valve face.
I believe it is very close to the 7/8" measurement.
Tom
Thanks Tom, I've machined it to the correct measurement: I just had to take off more than just a light skim to get there!
John
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I think the length of the rod joining the eccentric strap to the lever controlling the sliding valve must be quite exact - and that does not mean the dimension indicated in the drawings!
So I have made a dummy wooden rod for testing when the time comes. Hopefully I can use it to get things right before cutting the steel bar. The correct length of wooden bar can become a pattern.
Jason indiated that the usual pracitse was to forge the fork at the end of the bar. I would then assume that the worked metal would be painted and since this engine will represent a working engine in a diorama and not a display model, I will paint the bar as well. I am thinking of machining the bar to represent a cast bar rather than a modern piece of steel bar.
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Usually they are left bright and finished well so I would not paint it or rough it up in any way.
There are a few ecceptions on the smaller beam engines where they had a more elaborate valve rod though this would more than likely have been wrought iron as cast would have been two weak and prone to fracture.
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Thanks Jason.
Good to know.
John
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Looking at the linkage picture, there are things other than the length of the rod that can throw the valve movement off. The two lever arms activated by the eccentric rod will produce different movements according to their angles relative to the eccentric rod and themselves. I would check those angles and the arm lengths.
If we assume that the outer lever's motion is supposed to be vertically symmetric, then the angle of the motion can be detrmined. The inner arm will clearly move over the same angle so it's range of motion vertically can be calculated and compared with the necessary valve motion.
Changing the length of the eccentric rod merely changes the angle of the outer lever's motion range since the eccentric throw won't change. Assuming the levers are attached to their common rod with set screws, you can effect the same angle change by repositioning the lever.
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valve Eccentric rod length should be set so that the arm on the cross rod moves equal angles either side of vertical, horizontal arms should then be adjusted so that they are horizontal when valve arm is vertical and actual valve adjusted on its rod so it is at the mid point when arms are vertical/horizontal. Any deviation from those will give uneven movement of the valve
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Wow fellows, That's a lot to digest. :o
As I said earlier, a lot of respect must be given to these engines and their creators.
John
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Jason's post means that the two arms need to be at 90 degrees to one another.
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The Polly worm gear intrigues me. Not only because it cleverly can be made into two gears, but because it is almost mezmerizing when in rotation. Now mind you, it's not historically correct at all. I don't think brass helical gears would be found in any engine house. Jason's steel bevel gears would be more appropriate for the tine.
Nevertheless, I'm enjoying the exercise. ;)
The first photo shows a 3/32" hole dia. brass bushing with its boss in the chuck. It is pressed half way into the 3/16" hole that came with the gear. Thus two gears for the price on one. The 3/32" bore fits the governor's spindle and the 3/16' bore fits the flanged drive pulley.
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Yesterday I discovered a potential booboo with my gears. On one I drilled the set screw hole in the collar too close to the gear, and the set screw was slightly touching the teeth of the other gear each time around. Had to file the end of the screw for clearance, but drilling the hole further away from the teeth would have been a good idea. If I have to disassemble the crankshaft in the future I'll drill another hole.
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I have a greater appreciation for the need to keep governor design suitable to the space where it will have to work. On Victoria, the tight 'L' shaped arms have arcs cut into them to keep the balls in a tight rotation circle (Photo 1). The governor in my hand (Photo 2) really makes the point of keeping the design' tight'. Centrifugal force will throw them all out but keep them from hitting flywheels, columns, etc.
I chose to use the Mount design for my governor (last post), but it was designed for open space. That's not the case with this beam engine.
In these sequential photos that follow, you can see that the base of my governor is being remade to draw the balls in tighter and make room for the gear below.
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The lad who made the follower or shoe for this governor did a great job. He even curved the end to ride the radius the groove. I found it wrapped tighjtly to its lever and rod with a little piece of masking tape.
It makes me sad a bit when I discover things like this. The fellow lovingly made that part and carefully wrapped it safely away for a day that never came.
Hopefully Tom and I can bring his dream to life.
The planning stage begins now to design holders to support the drive system for the governor. You will note that because there was no brass 'V' pulley in the curved cast mounting, a filler was employed.
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I've been doing some online research on governors, and just about all the u tube demos I've watched -running at a slow speed - had the governor running far too slowly to be even remotely effective. Sluggish is the correct word I think! Are you gearing yours up or are you 'governed' by the available bits??
Regards
John
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Hello John,
You ask a very good question. You are right. The RPM of a beam is so slow that the appearance of a governor seems simply cosmetic.
I can have the governor run at any speed I wish by increasing the diameter of the drive pulley that will be mounted on the crankshaft. Right now, the ratio will be 2:1.
I'm sure I will be making another couple of drive wheels until the governor runs nicely.
John, as you know, beam engines pumping water move the ram up and down very slowly - at about 12 revolutions per minute! You will get that feeling by having a look at the link I've provided.
This begs the question whether small scale model beam engines can run smoothly without hesiation at such slow RPM's. If that is the cae with compressed air as well, I hava a plan in mind to run my engine very slowly. ;)
Thanks for asking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBdJQYbGZJM
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My understanding is that the flyball governors we see on beam engines weren't intended to regulate the normal operating speed. They they are intended to prevent overspeeding in the event of a failure. From that perspective a scale governer will work just fine.
Tony
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I love all the old beam engine videos and how slow they run. I can't help but imagine how back then they managed those huge beams and flywheels when erecting the engines , or machined them to start with to such levels of precision.
Bill
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Looking through a couple of my books the rpm given for the smaller beam engines of which the Stuart is based is more than the big pumping engines at 40-60rpm compared with 10-15rpm. So the actual engines would have run faster in real life and as they could have been used with things like line shafting the loads would not have been constant so some means to maintain a constant speed was needed so the governor would have been used for this. a large engine always lifting the same volume of water per stroke would see a constant load so less likely to need governing. I think you will have a job to get the model to run at much below 40rpm and probably a bit more to look smooth.
as for the Stuart governor on the beam the supplied spring drive belts do tend to slip a bit which reduces the speed and makes for irattic rotation.
I must make a new video of mine as I only have a poor quality clip taken quite awhile ago and it is hard to count the revs due to the jerky images.
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Thank you for your informative reply Jason. I also think it will be a challenge to get the beam running smoothly with steady ease at slow revolutions per minute.
I have seen first hand the jerky and hesitatnt motion that can occur from using spring belts. They are easy to install, but not steady or historically accurate. On Victoria, I made my own leather belt and stitched it together with no overlap.
On this engine, I plan to follow your lead with flanged pulleys and flat belts. Your picture inspires here again:
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Something is needed to support one end of the helial gear shaft on the bed of the engine. Then I thought of a word I learned as a child in the early 50's while playing with my Meccano set - a trunnion!
Part 126 in the kits.
So here I am 50 years later thinking of and making a trunnion.
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...actually, two trunnions.
I think a 'U' shaped bracket made to look like a casting should fill the bill to hold the governor and allow its helial gear to mesh with what you see here.
A work in progress...
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Hi John, as with so many of us that are that little bit older, my glorious Meccano set was a wonderful early introduction to the world of mechanical principles and terminology: contrates, pinions, flanges, sprockets, racks... I'm sure that it was a big factor in heading me towards model engineering as I entered my teens. I wonder how many eight or nine year olds of the present day would know what a trunnion was..? Dave
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Started my mechanical construction using a Meccano Set handed down from my father, who in turn had it handed down from his brother who was fortunate enough to be born before WW1, and grew up before the depression of the 30's. I'm not over keen on the modern system that Meccano has of having a set to make one model, where as with the old sets you got the bits and it was up to you to design what ever you fancied at the time. My favourite cranes.
Ian S C
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Hi Dave,
My two boys played with 'Dad's' Meccano set pieces for awhile, but LEGO soon took over. You ae right about questioning what skills and knowledge about mechanics are being passed along with toys today.
Hello Ian,
Bring back memories...?
Your right about the versitility of the original sets. Once you built a model, the first thing you did was take it apart and start another one.
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Go On, you know you want to ;)
(http://www.alansmeccano.org/images/beamNEW01.jpg)
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Because i was poor i only had a TRIX set and when mother did the Hoovering and there was a clattering sound going up the tube i got a clout round the ear as that was one less nut or bolt gone. How i envied the posh kids !!! Also no bright colours and dad on the box had a cigaret not a pipe, but you did get extra holes!!!
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Gentlemen, we are showing our age...
Don't get me started on Meccano's dinky toys!!
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Not quite Stuarts but these two engines are the most beautiful I have ever seen.
http://www.papplewickpumpingstation.org.uk/
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age its all in the mind and creaking joints :Director:
well my meccano set was in a large wooden box not sure if it was a sliding lid but I do remember the meccano logo transfer on the lid it was app 3 feet by 18 inches by 4 inches deep but I may be off on the sizes a bit but it held enough to build the big drag line that was on rails
long time ago now say 60 years :old: ( yes I do look like that but two crutches )
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Back from memory lane to have a look at the governor and its mounting.
I think it's going to work!
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That looks splendid John :ThumbsUp:
Bill
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Super Sweet!!!
Pete
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That is spectacular!
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That looks amazing John! Excellent work, as always!
Kim
PS Your governor looks like some modern art piece when sitting in front of your card-stock models there! :Lol:
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Thank you gentlemen for the kind comments. We'll see just how fine things are when they are bolted down!
You have a sharp eye Kim. Yes, I've been bringing out some of my earlier card models to downsize the collection and left that one on the desktop at the back. It is Neuschwanstein Castle in Bavaria, Germany. Adam recognized the one in the corner that has been there for some time because he lives in Prague. It's Karlstein Castle in The Czech Republic.
Now that Mad King Ludwig's castle has been noted, I may just leave it there.
Thanks for commenting on it.
John
P.S. If you turn and face the wall behind the photo desktop, you will see the two completed dioramas.
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Hi John ... your work still amazes me every time I see it. It must be nearly time for another visit.
Tom
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Say John...you wouldn't be interested in taking in some boarders would you? Like for long term?
Fantastic stuff.
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:)
I've been a little eccentric today...
The steel sheeve was turned beautfully - but not my me. I did however drlll and tap a #2-56 hole for the set screw. :embarassed:
I am very glad I had professinal help with the strap. When two air holes were discovered, as seen in these photos, I don't know what I would have done. :facepalm:
But the pros felt that there was enough meat in the casting to continue.
You can see one hole right in the path of the groove. :???:
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I did add a little extra by milling a flat for a little PMR oil cup. The threaded hole had to go straight down, so it didn't allow any oil to reach the groove. And an angle hoe down from the top was not an option.
So a hole was drilled up from the groove at an angle to meet the oil hole . I knew I was home free when I felt the drill break through into the threaded hole. Compressed air confirmed the holes were connected.
The sheeve, otherwise almost impossible to lubricate externally, can now be oiled. :D
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John, I think a wee drop of JB weld would fix the holes in the castings.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Right you are. Cosmetic at most. But I won't mess with the bubble in the groove.
The black, socket headed bolt used to cut and hold the strap together (photo 1) was replaced with a more suitable scale model historic bolt. The finger wrench's diameter was reduced to allow it to draw the bolt head up tightly into the recess (photo 2).
Now that we have an eccentric, the length of the connecting bar was established. Remarkably the center to center distance of the finished bar mathced the drawing's diameter! :D
Preliminary adjustments put the parts somewhere in the ball game ::)
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Fits like a glove and looks great! :ThumbsUp:
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Thank you Tom.
I am very pleased with the purposeful look of the linkage. However Tom, it's amazing how just a little slop in fit makes such a difference. I tried moving the eccentric and noticed that it was moving but there was a time lag before it started to move the linkage. Reason? A rod was not snugged up against its shoulder.
Then I noticed that the linkage was in motion but the slide valve was not - it was also lagging. Reason? The square nut that fits in the bronze slide was too narrow in its slot. So it was moving before it bore against the side of the lug. Solution: easy - make the nut wider.
And so on.
Tom I would think our attenton to detail could send some hobbiests around the bend and give up enigne making. :insane:
Be well,
John
P.S. You are both invited for a visit any time.
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Very nice John. Every day brings you closer to another beautiful addition to your collection.
Bill
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Thank you Bill for your kind comments.
Boy, am I glad I stopped, stepped back and assessed some of the flaws that appeared when testing the eccentric for the first time.
I'm holding the valve stem and the slide valve nut in my hand. The head was part of the problem. I thought leaving the head with a few threads for adjustment was what was expected.
Not so as far as I can tell. It's threaded right up to its sholder and secured with loctite. The admustment is in the 1/2" threads that engage the nut.
Very pleased now with the action of the slide valve in conjunctipn with the ecentric.
I find the principle of turning rotary motion into horizontal reciprocal motion and then lever that linear motion into vertical reciprocal motion.
Fascinating to watch. :)
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When Tom machined the beam arms, he had it in mind to paint milled recesses in them a pleasing contrasting colour.
A beautiful job Tom!
Not only do the negative spaces add interest to the beams, they make them look as though they could very well have been cast.
I want to install the column and the arms now before more linkage and belting is added in front.
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I agree John, even she shallow recesses add interest to those two pieces eve when painted the same color which would have been more typical i suspect.
Bill
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John, my plan was dark cream main color (as was to be the whole engine ) and a contrasting light orange for the inserts. I like yours better as it hides my machining flaws. Bill is correct I think in that it would have been one color.
Tom
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Good discussion.
Tom, I don't see any flaws in those inserts. They are perfect in their placement and proportion.
I thank you for the idea of adding interest to a flat surface of metal like this. As I said pattern makers often embelished surfaces with bump outs in the pattern to save metal in the casting. You can see your motif in the back of the governor bracket in the first photo.
I must say I really think Stuart dropped the ball when they left those two arms hanging out there like an unfinished piece of girder work. Not so with the Major Beam. Its nice round bullnose completes the enclosure of the beam perfectly in my opinion.
So, I'm at the drawing board with this one... :thinking:
P.S. Closing the end of the arms will not impede the beam's travel.
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I'm getting more inspiration every time I look at your build!
John
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John, I have to confess ... I thought a lot about rounding off the ends of those arms like the Major beam. I even bought the material to do it. I did believe that it would have looked better, but I was talked out of it by a friend that is a bit of a purist. I was just interested in making a nice looking engine. It would have had another milled out slot around the front, same as the sides. Alas, the metal is now gone or you could of had it.
My suggestion ... follow your instinct and do it the way you want.
Tom
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Hi John,
Glad you are enjoying the build. John, much of what is happening with this build is being developed 'on the fly'. With prototype projects like this one (where the original drawings become a suggestion), anythng can happen.
J.L.
Hi Tom,
Again we are on the same page. I went downstairs last night before going to bed and found a sheet of Lexan plastic four inches wide and about two feet long. It is 3/8" thick - the exact height of the arms . :)
Now, can you see an arc cut out of that plastic with a rotary table and then set up vertically in the table to mill the recess you were talking about partially around its face? A 3" diameter circle would create the curve.
I wonder... :thinking:
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All the ones I have seen have been a semi-circle so something nearer to 2" would do. Though the stuart brackets for the watts linkage are not ideal in this sort of setup. The brackets could be done away with and all the vertical links shortened but it's quite a bit of work especially as some bits are already done.
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John, I was going to do it in one piece, incorporating the arms that are there with a round nose. If I remember right, I was going to use a piece of 2" cast iron rod as the former. The machining would of been done first, and then I was going to heat it and bend it round the former. Jason is correct ... I'm not sure if the linkage brackets would still be in the proper place.
Tom
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Good points Jason. You are dead on with your dimension of 2". :ThumbsUp:
But I'm not going for a semi-circle here. I just want a soft curve to close - hence the 3" overall diameter of the material. The arms with its bullnose will pass up through the floor of the gallery above.
Thanks.
John
Hi Tom,
Nothing will change with dimensions. I will have to incorporate lugs to run back along the inside of the arms for the fastening bolts. I have to pass behind the trunnion bolts in the bars.
Thank you both for your input. This is what makes designing interesting.
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Jason, you are right. :NotWorthy:
I went downstairs and put a 2" disk (they were used in clockmaking) between the arms - perfect fit.
Forget the soft curve. Your semi-circle is the way to go. It will look so much better. Notice how it also suits the round top of the cylinder cover below in the photo.
Jason... :NotWorthy:
John
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Why don’t you go the whole hog and make a support ( may need a fancy basket at the cylinder end ) like the Stuart major and the me beam that would give added support and fill in the void between the entablature and cylinder
Stuart
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I think a support may be a bit difficult in this case, teh large stuart and ME beam have the valve chest towards the cylinder but the basic beam has then right where the support would go. Add to this the above mentioned brackets which mean the semi circle end can't be concentric with teh cylinder all push things right out over the valve chest rather than above the cylinder.
This one has been done nicely
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b5/2f/16/b52f164f4c865d0aa29826a5e0f3a0eb.jpg)
and this one better shows how far back the semi circle comes
(http://www.steam-engines-for-sale.com/uploads/86_173_158_19_DSCF0838.jpg)
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Thank you for the close up photo of the semi-circular Jason. Now I can see clearly how meat is left on the inner surface of the join for the bolts.
Now that is a ship of the line!!! :o
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This might work...
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John, is the lexan piece just for a trial fit and to check appearance and design? If not I am wondering how you will paint it to match the arms. I do agree that it will enhance the overall look though. Still watching here.
Bill
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John you may find it easier to hold for machining the recess if you don't remove the middle until after.
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Hi Bill.
No, it will be the Lexan all the way. I checked the primer I regularly use and it is compatable with plastic and fibreglass.
Jason, the second attempt went much better. As you suggested working on the exterior circumference has gone well so far.
But I will not turn on the machine with that slot cutter in it until after lunch! :facepalm2:
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I thought you might use a regular end mill and have the rotary table set vertically, that way you will get the same radius at the ends of the hrecess that you have on the two bars
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Yes Jason, that was the original thought. However, with everything set up I decided to go ahead with the cut.
We are half way home...
P.S. Jason, I noticed tht the lugs that flair out and reach back for the two bolts come quite far up the curve before they are reduced to equal thickness of the bars.
This is good to know.
Again, your photo will help design the internal cuts now.
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The day started well with the cutting of the inner circumference of the bullnose. :)
In the first two photos, you will see the first cut has been made wider than the finished 3/16" bars. This is to allow for the 3/32" lugs that are needed to fasten the part to the bars.
The third photo shows the finished 3/16" thickness with the allowance back furthur for the lugs.
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Nearing the finish line...
But will the part fit? :shrug:
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Looking good John. My money is on it fitting perfectly :)
Bill
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Bill.
A coat of paint now will tell the tale.
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That's produced a highly convincing component with the paint treatment , John. "Plastic Fantastic"! Was the Lexan / Perspex material pretty abrasive on the cutter, though? Dave
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Looks good to me ... another vote here for an excellent fit.
Tom
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Thanks Tom. The part should be dry tomorrow.
Hi Dave,
No, I didn't notice any difficulties with the cutting of the Lexan at all. I used a two-fluted end mill throughout the entire project. Clean, crisp cuts all the way with the HSS bit.
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We have a closed entablature. :cheers:
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That looks way better to me. Nice job John!
Tom
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I would call that a 'Major' improvement!
John
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If you were going to go plastic, it would have been a chance to try a Shapeways printed part.
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Thanks Tom. I agree.
Thanks John for the 'major' compliment. :ROFL:
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Looks perfect to me John, and obviously the Lexan painted up well too.
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
Jason, I was seriously thinking of continuing that motif of a radius on each end of the grooves as they came around to match the rounded ends of each recess on the bars. To do this I was going to drill a hole into a thin piece of plastic such as a credit card and work the height of material down to the thickness of the recesses and cut the material in half through the hole thereby creating two little pieces that would have a concave half circle on their ends. They could then be glued onto each side of the semi-circle.
But you know, what I have now is not that bad. And when we walk up the stairs onto the beam floor, we may never notice this little change in design motif. ;)
John
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I had fully intended to use flanged pulleys for this project. However, I could not get the flat belt to keep from slipping. For me, this was a surprise. I am so used to having belts grab crowned pulleys without hesitation.
So I went to the V-pulley. The owner who made parts for the engine before Tom and I got our hands on the parts, had made very deeply grooved pulleys that were easy to redrill and ream for the new shaft diameters.
I was quite surprised to have the CA glue hold the O-ring you see in the little yellow circle. This was meant to be only a test piece of material, but look at it! It's holding! :o
I will however, search out an O-ring in good order just in case. The diameter is about 4".
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JL
You can buy kits of o ring cord with a cutter block and as you have used super glue to make custom o rings ,been aroid for many years
If you google “ o ring cord “ you can by it by the metre in many different sections 1mm up
Nice model coming along great
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A slight crown on the flanged pulley helps them grip the belt without having to put excess tension into it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/DSC00524_zpsbcapxeuq.jpg)
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And on a unflanged, crowned pulley keeps the belt on, it naturally moves to the greatest diameter(the middle). When I did the rebuild on a Stuart Turner S9, I fitted a crowned flat pulley, but I could not get it to drive anything worthwhile because of belt slip.
Ian S C
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John, I have some orings that you could cut to size if they are any good to you.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for the offer, but do you remember this first picture? That's when the guys got on my case about using three cables instead of belt for the takeoff drive pulley up to the line shaft? I kept them and used one here.
Hi Jason. How stupid of me. Of course! I think I got so caught up in flanging the pulley, I expected side friction to help drive the belt.
Crowning pulleys is certainly the way to go. Here is a look back at some crowned pulleys and belting from the machine shop build.
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This diagram is a great aid in setting the lever angles and understanding the action of the valve. Notice that the owner of the diagram marked the direction of the vlave stem for his own reference.
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If you have studied the diagram above closely you will see that the butterfly valve moves anti-clockwise to close. That means that the linkage is pulling the butterfly's valve to close it.
But in my design of the governor, the linkage pushes the lever instead. I've reversed the pivot point on the follower arm.
This afternoon I realized what had happened. The way I have set things up moves the butterfly valve the wrong way.
Fortunately, the maker of the valve did not rivet it in place on its axle. I pulled the valve out and reversed it. So now, the lever still pushes the valve,but closes it instead.
Man, I was lucky here. The whole design could have gone up in smoke!
Picture one shows the valve open. The second photo shows it closed after turning the axle clockwise.
So that little red arrow in the diagram would show clockwise rotation if I were to draw it.
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I've always wrestled with the function of governors. I know they are to control speed, but I was explaining the action of a governor all wrong to friends who asked. I thought that when a load came onto the engine; such as a log coming up the gangway and entering the circular saw, the engine took this load and slowed under the load. So, I thought that was when the balls dropped and opened the butterfly valve to allow more steam power to cut the wood.
Not so I guess. After this exercise, I realize that increasing speed closes the butterfly valve thereby regulating speed.
Of course, I've also heard often, that with model engineering all this talk about model governors is academic.
Cheers...John
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I don't think that you are wrong at all. I've mentioned before that model governors run at such slow speeds as to be useless. Now imagine a real steam engine running at its design speed, and the governor balls are being held in equilibrium halfway 'out' so to speak. The valve permits a constant load, constant speed, at this governor setting. Increase the load and the balls drop, opening the valve and increasing the pressure - within preset limits of course - and when the speed increases to the design speed, the balls return to their design position and maintain that speed. If the engine overspeeds, then the valve works the other way and slows everything up. Simples!
Unless someone knows otherwise that is... :cheers:
John.
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John you are basically right with your description of the engine running the saw.
As the log enters the blade there will be a slight drop in speed which will cause the balls to drop and this opens the valve allowing more steam to the engine so it then picks up but also has more power for the rest of the cut. As the log exits the saw the blade will pick up speed causing the balls to fly out which will then cut the steam until the engine reverts to tick over.
Think of the governor as regulating power not just speed. A bit like driving your car on a flat road you don't need much throttle but as that road goes up hill you increase the throttle to maintain the same speed. That is what the governor is doing - allowing more steam in to meet the power demand and keep the speed fairly constant.
I could point you to a very long thread which has a lot of theory in it and makes interesting reading, will find it later.
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It's not entirely true that governors on model engines are of little use. On the ST 9 that I rebuilt, I was able to get the governor to hold the engine to around 400 rpm over quite a wide range of load and pressure between 20 and 60 psi (air).
Ian S C
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Agreed, but there is a world of difference between a 400 rpm engine and a plodding beam engine, which is the subject of the discussion.
John
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Unless someone knows otherwise that is... :cheers:
I'm afraid it is not that simple; at least for governors where a throttling valve is directly controlled by a speed signal, as obtained from rotating balls.
Let's consider the case of the saw mill discussed. At low load the balls rotate at a position dependent upon the engine speed, and the throttling valve is also in a fixed position. As the load increases the engine speed decreases, opening the valve and admitting more/higher pressure steam to compensate for the extra load. So far so good. What doesn't happen under the increased load is that the engine speed then increases back to it's offload value. If it did, and the balls then moved out to their original position the valve would close slightly reducing steam, causing the engine to slow and so on. To summarise; an increase in load causes a stable decrease in speed.
Looked at another way there can only be one position of the valve for each position of the balls, and hence engine speed. But since the valve has to move to compensate for changes in load it can't be in two places for the same speed, but different loads.
The change in speed caused by a given change in load can be minimised by increasing the gain of the governor/valve system. In extremis if the governor is isochronous then there will be no speed change, but that implies infinite gain and that the position of valve is not determined by the position the balls. So the governor will be unstable.
In theoretical terms these type of governors can be modelled on the complex s-plane. Normally the governor response is modelled by two complex conjugate poles. For stability these poles must be in the negative half plane of the real axis. For an isochronous governor they would be on the imaginary axis, ie, the real part of the poles is zero. From a practical viewpoint if the gain is too high, friction and time delays will lead to hunting.
The only way to minimise speed changes with load is to let the governor control valve cutoff timing rather than throttling the steam supply. I understand that large mill engines (where speed control is important) used these type of governors.
I am currently working on the theory and practical design of the governors for my third scale traction engines. I hope these will be functional, but they are entailing significant changes to the published design, which would never have worked.
Andrew
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When I visited the electricity museum in Lisbon (a decommissioned plant), I was surprised to see that the governor on the turbine was rather small. Given that you want the frequency of the electricity to be constant, I believe speed control was the paramount issue.
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Very insteresting discussion gentlemen.
Here is the engine to date.
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Oh wow!!!! That is just gorgeous John. The beam will obviously add a lot more to it as well but it looks great even now :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Bill
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:praise2: :NotWorthy: :praise2:
Tom
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Great job JL, looks really nice.
Thomas
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Excellent. I hope mine comes near yours both in style and execution.
I am now much better acquainted with the theory and practice of governing full size engines.
John
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Thanks all.
A couple of items in the box of goodies Tom brought to me gave me an idea for some added interest with this engine. There was a beautifully machined eccentric, a piston with glands, a brass housing and some fittings.
Hmmm....
Why not a feed pump of some sort?
You will notice in the third photo that 3/4" of space was planned for this possibility when the outboard bearing was located and bricked.
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When I visited the electricity museum in Lisbon (a decommissioned plant), I was surprised to see that the governor on the turbine was rather small. Given that you want the frequency of the electricity to be constant, I believe speed control was the paramount issue.
In the UK the mains frequency varies throughout the day depending upon the grid load. The higher the load the lower the frequency. At the moment my supply is at 49.9Hz, earlier it was 49.7Hz. I understand the generators have to keep within ±1% of the nominal 50Hz. There used to be a requirement to keep the integral frequency error over 24 hours to as near zero as possible, so synchronous clocks didn't lose or gain. I don't know if this is still the case.
While steam turbines can use a throttling valve, similar to the Watt style governors, I think that most steam generation plants use a different method. To avoid losses through these valves large steam turbines pass the boiler steam through a nozzle giving isentropic expansion. The resultant supersonic steam flow is what drives the turbine. Speed regulation is achieved by having a large number of nozzles and turning them on and off depending upon the load. So a governor only has to open or close a valve, it doesn't need to drive a proportional valve in the steam flow. I assume that is why the governor was relatively small.
I seem to have dragged the thread somewhat off topic. :-[
Great looking engine by the way. Did you cut your own helical gears?
Andrew
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John, that is a feed pump, I believe for a Stuart #9.
Tom
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Hi Andrew,
Way over my head, but thanks for sharing.
No, I did not make the helical gears. I bought a single one in England (Poly Engineering). It is cleverly cut in half and a boss is added to make a pair.
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Thanks Tom,
I thought so. Unfortunately the housing can not be used on this engine, but that eccentric and piston with its glands can...
John
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When I got thinking about a feed pump design for the engine, I went back through the computer picture files and found some fond memories of the 2014 paper steam engine that got me started in this metal hobby.
But two pictures I posted here caught my eye. It showed the design of a little round pump housing that received its driving piston from the bottom of the eccentric strap.
The last photo shows it by itself. That may be my feed pump design idea.
I remember using Meccano here!
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John, if you are not sure of the internal details just shout and I'll see if I can find the sketch for this oneon teh right.
Most beam engines actually had the feed pumps run off the beam, you may be able to squeeze one in between crank and column to a similar design as that on the Benson.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Hit%20n%20Miss/PICT0338.jpg)
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Thanks for the great shot Jason. And thank you for the offer to research the little pump's internals.
My litttle feed pump will be a dummy.No steel balls required. ;) I know what you are saying about a rod being driven by the beam for pumping, but I just couldn't see that beautiful eccentric go to waste. I guess I broke the norm again.
The sheeve had a 3/8" bore hole. It was easy to bring it up to the crankshaft's 7/16".
I'm kind of hooked on making this pump.
I suppose I should be working on the beam! :slap:
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I was going to try to reuse the existing valve body that came with the eccenric assembly, but it is just going to easier to redesign the whole body.
Here is the eccentric fastened to the crankshaft. It looks rather narrow without flanges. It was originally meant to be kept skinny (1/4") so that it could squeeze in beside additional items on the shaft between the fywheeel and the bearing.
I've left more room than probably necessary between the flywheel and the outboard bearing, but I wanted room for the pump body furthur out. I will add flange bosses to each side later to beef it up and make it feel more at home.
A close-up shot like this and you know this is not a 'display' engine. Things will become more natural when we start to see a building go up around this 'working' beam.
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JL and Jason (or anybody): Did Victorian era steam engines use the same types of unions and els that are common today? The brass elbows JL is using on his piping is the same as I did on my loco.
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Hi Kurt,
I'm speaking off the top of my head with what I have seen. I think only flanges were used; a fixed flange on the device and a flange cast into the end of the sweeping curve of elbows and such. The two were brought together and fastened with bolts. I don't think threaded unions were even around back then.
I cheat when I use the PMR bronze elbows- even when I attach street elbows to flanges. I should be using the smooth curved elbows with the large radii. My bad.
Cheers...John
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Over here the threaded pipework is less common in all but the smaller (full) sizes and even then we would tend to use more bent pipes. Anything over 2" would more than likely have used bolted flanges so you need to base your model pipework depending on the scale of the model so that screwed 1/4" pipe on a 1/12 scale model is not really going to be right as it would not have been used on 1:1 3" pipe
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Jason is right. Threaded material developed will after the turn of the century.
I am way off base historically by using the threaded fixings and pipe on my models.
It is nice to reuse or alter material that someone has lovingly machined many years ago. It is like honouring their work by incorporating it into the project at hand. Tom and I were very lucky to come into possession of parts beautifully machined.
In the foreground of the first photo you will see the original ram with a cotter pin. I kept the 3/32" link that was fastened to the eccentric strap, but reduced the size of the ram and used a shoulder bolt to join up with the lever instead of the pin.
The second photo shows brass parts for a feed pump under construction.
But I need advice about the third photo. A 3/8" rod passes through the pump with ample length to determine the pump's height. But when it is cut off, it will extend about 1/4" above the pump body. I intend to drill a hole and set a 1/4" pipe into it.
Question: Given that I will be using modern elbows where should that pipe go? Return and go down into the floor?
Thoughts welcome.
John
P.S. That long stud sticking out of the governor bracket's base has to go!! Remember talking about what we often see in photos that miss our eye in passing?
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Plans for this feed pump have come to a crashing halt. :embarassed:
I do not think it will look attractive at all with the pump mounted so high. I overlooked the fact that the stroke of the ram must be perfectly in line with the centre of the driving axle.
That's why the original pump design was angled down so steeply on the #9.
Another learning experience.
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OOOOPS ... Sorry it won't work as planned John. I'm sure you will come up with something.
Tom
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Hi John,
Nice work......as usual!
On the pump front, how about using Daves idea.....scroll down to find the photo
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,4116.0.html
Cheers Kerrin
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It may work as you have it but with a short ram and much longer eccentric rod which will mean there is far less downwards push on the ram. Some form of Rod Guide as Kerrin suggests will also help the situation.
As to where your pipe should go then assuming it is a boiler feed pump then the pipe should head off in that direction.
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We're working on it Tom.
Hi Kerrin,
Thanks for the link to absolutely amazing work. I like the idea of creating a base for the pump to raise it and give it some mass.
Hi Jason,
Good suggestions. I really like the idea of a rod guide to stabilize the action of the ram, but I have gone back to using the original, shorter ram.
John
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We're working on it Tom.
Hi Kerrin,
Thanks for the link to absolutely amazing work. I like the idea of creating a base for the pump to raise it and give it some mass.
Hi Jason,
Good suggestions. I really like the idea of a rod guide to stabilize the action of the ram, but I have gone back to using the original, shorter ram.
John
Thank you for the kind words John, my project has been stalled since June. I'm hoping to have an update soon; actually for the first time in many weeks, I was able to spend some time working on the Pacific today.
Dave
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Dave, you certainly set the bar high with your superb work.
Enjoy getting back to moments of brilliance!
When I was working in the shop some time ago, I noticed I was bending over a lot to do fine work on the engine. I got a plastic egg crate and a sheet of wood and placed them on a rolling cart. This brought the work up to comfortable standing height. I made a high movable table about 24" square and 4 feet high as a result. Casters on the legs let the table be moved about easily to get better light from above, or move it out of the way if machines such as the table saw need to be used.
This morning I looked back at the hight table while getting a drill from a cabinet and thought a few shots with the model up higher might be possible.
In photo one you can see the metal lathe in the background.
In photo two, looking the other way, you can see the General wood lathe.
The third photo shows the mock-up styrofoam prototype design model sitting on a speaker in the background.
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I've had another go at making a stand for the feed pump...
Dave, making what would look like a cast base came directly from viewing your work. Thanks.
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I have tried to avoid the use of unions (photo 1).
This time I tried making mating pairs pf flanges at the same time by taking the three jaw chuck from the lathe to the drill press to make the bolt holes The jaws of the chuck can be used to eyeball the 60 degree orientation (photo 2).
Sometimes I wish I haden't choses to use only MTP threads on my pipes. You can't draw them up tight to a shoulder to camoflague the threading when attempting to make parts look like they were cast. Photo 4 was an exception. The street elbow drew up nicely.
Ready to prime....
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Excellent piece of work. Have you considered silver soldering items to improve appearance? This little steam manifold on my loco is made of several parts silver soldered together. Not difficult if you have the patience!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4418/37050758055_966a0011c0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ys3Pxn)DSCF0012-9 (https://flic.kr/p/Ys3Pxn) by inkaboat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28837250@N07/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/36862944456_7e46953e90_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Yase6S)DSCF0003-24 (https://flic.kr/p/Yase6S) by inkaboat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28837250@N07/), on Flickr
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Hi John,
I understand what you are saying about silver soldering material to surfaces to create nice fillets. But high build primer is about the extent of my game with painted parts.
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Looks pretty good to me: stick with the primer! :cheers:
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That turned out very well John. Still following along here.
Bill
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Looks good to me as well John. That is a super addition.
Tom
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Thank you gentlemen.
I am quite pleased with the smooth action of the pump's ram. As I said earlier, it is nice to encorporate items built earlier and put them to new use.
Tom, I think our lad would have been pleased. I was able to reuese everyrthing but the angled housing intended for a #9.
John
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Wow JL, that addition sure looks good.
Thomas
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Looks great!
I agree with you on the union fittings, they always give me grief to get a good seal. On one model I used the flange type fittings, with small o-rings between the plates in a groove, and that worked quite well. Think that I'll use that type more in the future!
:popcorn:
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Looks good John, even better when you have the strap up the right way ;)
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Thanks fellows.
Where is the water being delivered to from this pump? When I planned the building to house this engine, I assumed that the back wall would be the outside wall.
Well now, it appears that there is a boiler back there - just the way I had planned the Benson diorama. This changes things. I have made pipe covers to represent the lines going back to that boiler. The plates are now an afterthought. The men will just love tripping over them. If I had planned for them earlier they would have been mortised into the floor to be flush with the top of the planking.
I see a big double door back there recessed back into the wall leading into the boiler room.
P.S.The steam pipe under the floor will also look as though it has a pipe run as well.
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I made it clear early on, that for some elements of my models, I do not have the equipment or experience to make them accurately. Such is the case with several items upcoming. I did not make the con rod or the eight levers that will control the movement of the piston rod.
I guess the balance is to know when to step aside and get help to keep the project enjoyable and avoid stress or frustration.
Mind you that may still come when I attempt to run this puppy! :???:
So, here is the connecting rod with the little parts I was able to add.
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Fred, drilling and reaming that 7/16" central bearing hole made it so easy to machine the cast iron beam on the miling machine.
In the first photo of the unfinished beam installed, the crank is at six o'clock. The second; twelve o'clock.
Now, how does an arching beam lift vertically? :thinking:
That's what I intend to discover this week.
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Ah yes, the beam makes it look more complete, even though there are more bits to add i know. Looks great John.
Bill
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All eight levers that magically (?) control the movement of the piston rod measure 1 3/4" on centers. When I placed the first one between the beam's end hole to the hole in the top of the cylinder shaft, the lever was too long. That meant that the piston rod was too long.
In going back to the diagrams, I noticed that there is no dimenstion given for the length of the piston rod. Now I see why. You are on your own to determine its length specific to your machine. :happyreader:
I will have to make a new pistron rod that will allow the lever to connect properly.
I would think this could be tricky. You don't want the piston to slam down into the the cylinder's base or slam up against the piston's cap.
X-ray vision could be useful here. ;)
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Is this model to have the famous Watt's parallel motion linkage?
If it is, there are numerous descriptions and animations on the web, some of which even discuss the geometry, e.g...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_motion
Perhaps this (or similar if it's not Watt's linkage) would be helpful in working out the geometry for the model.
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Hi Marv,
Thank you very much for giving me a link where I can wrap my head around how these parallel motion levers operate.
Yes, the Watt's system is what will be employed.
Kind of you.
John
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John, there is a length given for the piston rod - top of piston to ctr of hole in the rod end = 3 9/16" Book does say that this distance can be adjusted by screwing the rod end up or down to get the piston central in the cylinder
Not sure what you mean by "the hole in the top of the cylinder shaft"
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Hi Jason,
A senior moment there. You are right. The diagram does show a dimension of 3 9/16" from the top of the cylinder face to the center of the cross hole in the piston rod cap. The printed dimension was far out from the part for these old eyes. I must have seen it earlier, because I made the part! :hammerbash:
Originally, I threaded the top of the piston rod sufficiently, but did not thread the mating threaded hole in the piston rod cap deep enough to let it thread down to the 3 9/16".
I also checked to make sure the con rod was 6 1/4" center to center.
You know Jason, the upcoming Watt's pivoting lever system could drive one to drink! :insane:
So another try today to get this teeter-totter working. :D
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Hi Bill,
Sorry I didn't acknowledge your earlier complimentary comment.
Thanks. The beam does make a statement. I am waiting for the day when I see in rising and falling slowly through the beam floor upstairs when we get the diroama made.
Cheers...John
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In most of the drawings I've seen showing cast beams, I've noticed that almost invariably there is a cast rib through its center joining the bosses. I would think it common practice in the pattern making shop to include one for strength and perhaps even appearance.
Here's a photo of one that may be a bit over the top with the number of ribs, but the principle of strength and stability is definitely there.
I'm using Bondo auto finishing putty here to create fillets to make the 1/16" square brass strips look cast - otherwise, they would look as though they had just been stuck on. :-\
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The drawing is more "Victorian" perhaps when beauty as well as function was important, but yours looks every bit the part too John and once cleaned up and painted will certainly look cast in as well.
Bill
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Yes Bill,
The paint went on today. Now I have to keep my hands off of it for 48 hours. Initially, it dries in minutes, but takes days to harden properly. I'm often been guilty of handling painted parts when they feel dry, but soon regret it.
So, in the meantime, the table saw has been cutting some walls!!! Each wall has to be designed to be totally 'break down', so access to the engine can be achieved instantly.
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While the paint dries ,(and before I step into attempting to attach the linkage for the piston rod), I cut the west and south walls for the diorama. Tom, you can clearly see your Corian base here.
The fasteners are designed for MDF so that threaded bolts can be used as in some knock-down furniture. The large fixtures are threaded in with a hex wrench.
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John, do you also glue those fixtures into the MDF or do they hold well enough on their own? Just curious.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
A good question. The sharp splines on the threads are very aggressive and will hold fast and stop your hex wrench! You have to drill a large hole (3/8") to have them engage without putting stress on the material around the hole.
There are two types of fixtures. The flanged ones on the left are metric threaded; the plain ones on the right in the first photo are 1/4 -20 threaded.
There is also another type of fastener (second photo) I will be using on the walls of the diorama. The walls are only 1/2" thick, so a metal cross dowel is used. The slot lets you rotate the dowel to engage the bolt coming to meet it that has been drilled in the end of the thin wall.
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The east wall is being laminated. It has a core of 1/4" hardboard and two outer skins of 1/8" hardboard, thus creating a recess all round the opening.
Hopefully I have anticipated its size properly when everything comes together later.
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Back to the links.
I have found that the model engineering #8-32 were very much out of scale for fastening the links. Theh were as thick as the link bosses.
A simple solution was to thread a piecce of 3/16" rod and make a cutting jig. The carriage was locked in place with the first nut cut, so that all subsequent nuts would be of the same thickness.
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Because the supplied nuts were exactly the distance indicated by the drawings, they were threaded onto the ends of the link axles and used as a guide for the parting tool.
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I am finding that the collar thicknesses indicated on the drawings are just not working for me at all.
I'll bet I'm not the first person to note this. It will be a lengthy, but interesting process to keep thinning the parts down so that they will pass each other without jamming. The thickness of the nuts may also have to be thinned.
Good thing I didn't throw that nut cutting jig away. ;)
I guess that's what they payed the fitters for with their files back in the day... :D
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The game begins with hooking up and getting everything aligned...
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When a nut is threaded onto each end of a pivot axle, I'm finding it very important to have them bear up against a crisp shoulder to stop them and not let them bind the links on the axle.
So I'm undercutting the threads at the shoulder so that a nut will draw up and stop. It is then easier to measure exactly how to long to make the free movement on the axle with a whisker of clearance.
When the nuts are put on each end of the axle and snugged up, they don't work loose and let the links rotate freely on the fixed axle.
Basic stuff for most, but I'm enjoying learning this stuff as I go along. ;)
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Geometry was never a strong suit for me in high school. In searching out an explanation for Watt's parallel motion, I understood the first part of the Watt's 1784 motion here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_motion
But apparently a much better system was developed in 1864. The moving diagram is excellent but the geometric explanation..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaucellier%E2%80%93Lipkin_linkage
Hopefully, I can get my linkage working today.
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Geometry was never a strong suit for me in high school. In searching out an explanation for Watt's parallel motion, I understood the first part of the Watt's 1784 motion here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_motion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_motion)
But apparently a much better system was developed in 1864. The moving diagram is excellent but the geometric explanation..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaucellier%E2%80%93Lipkin_linkage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaucellier%E2%80%93Lipkin_linkage)
Hopefully, I can get my linkage working today.
John,
I've mentioned it here before, but this is a good time to mention again, a charming little book on such linkages from 1877:
How to Draw a Straight Line: A Lecture on Linkages by: A.B. Kempe
It is availabe free online from Project Gutenburg:
http://www.subdude-site.com/WebPages_Local/RefInfo/eDocs/Math_edocs/docs/OnLinkages_A-B-Kempe_1877_63pgs.pdf
I thought you or others might enjoy it.
--Tim
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Thanks Tim.
Things need to be cleaned up a bit, but here are some shots of Watt's paralllel motion mechanical linkage.
I made a video of trying it manually by rotating the flywheel for YouTube, but alas something has gone wrong with my upload.
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It looks ... err ... parallel :lolb:
Good Job John. I wasn't looking forward to that part.
Tom
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Watt i find odd about his parallel motion is that nearly every engine i look at has the Radious reach rod in a different place !!! Watts parallel motion ? Is that a two seater privy ?!!!!!
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It sure is looking good John. Will be even better with the diorama framing it!!
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Thanks!
Here is a picture of those cross dowels I was mentioning to allow the walls to be quickly dismantled.
And also a sneak peek at those walls in the rough.
I must get bak to the engine now and put it back together!
Cheers...John
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Here is that test video I made of the linkage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPYA41Q-zmA
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Very nice and smooth working!
:popcorn:
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The model: exquisite
The video: delightful
The music: execrable
It's a genteel, stately British steam engine and deserves music appropriate to that description and era. Perhaps something by Parry or Elgar.
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Beautiful JL, that must make you most pleased.
Thomas
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Thank you gentlemen. Yes, the machine is coming together nicely.
Hi Marv.
I couldn't agree with you more. This test was just a quick shot to show progress, and I chose what was a quick, easy access, but you are so right. The music in the finished video will have to be just right. Your suggestion of Elgar or something stately, majestic and motivationg is a must!
Thanks for the Elgar. I don't know Parry - yet. Getting the right sound is so important. Unfortunately, when you get it, it's not available without copyright hoops.
We spent hours searching out the music for the 19th steam driven machine shop. Michael had access to a music video background music paysite where he had the option of choosing copyright free material.
Great comment.
John
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Your beam engine is looking terrific now John. The extra detailing and interesting ancillaries, and the radiused closure of the entablature, has taken the model into quite different territory from the unadorned, "out of the box" Stuart design. It's going to look spectacular in its engine house diorama... Dave
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Thank you very much for your comments Dave. Appreciated.
After reading Andrew Smith's page 31 of his book on setting the timing for the engine several times, the penny dropped and I understoood that there are two distinct parts involved; using the flywheel and then setting the eccentric.
These three pictures show the slide valve in the middle, the top port open in the second photo and the bottom port open in the third. All controlled only by the rotation of the flywheel through 360 degrees.
The slide valve looks a bit off to one side. I think that will be corrected when the studs are put in place to fasten the coverplate.
So far so good..
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Thanks for the Elgar. I don't know Parry - yet. Getting the right sound is so important.
Perhaps Hubert Parry's most widely known composition is the choral "Jerusalem". Every self-respecting Brit seems to know it as this sing-along from the 2012 Proms demonstrates...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=041nXAAn714
Stately as it is, it's probably not quite right for the video but Parry has many other works from which to choose.
If you Google
youtube Hubert Parry
you'll get a selection of many of his symphonic works that will provide a taste of his music.
Another British composer that might provide something appropriate is Ralph Vaughan Williams. His creative period was a bit later than the era of the engine but his music is timeless. As with Parry, Googling youtube and his name will take you to performances of his most often heard works.
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The position of the eccentric sheave is quite critical and on my last engine i left an extra flange on the side of the sheave with a grub screw to get the engine running sweetly. when this was achieved the inner part of sheave was drilled through to the crank shaft for a pin and the extra part removed. The sheave was then held in place with a pin under the eccentric strap. For future maintenance the sheave could be Loctited in place with a removable extended pin and then with the pin removed the hole could be tapped for a grub screw,The sheave is then heated up and removed from the shaft, then painted.
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I quite like Osbert Parsley myself.......and he is buried in Norridge Cathedral as well !!!!!
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Hi Marv,
I feel so stupid! I've sung 'Jeruselem' in my choir! I did not connect the composer. Sorry.
I don't think there will be a choir singing in the engine house though. :D
Getting copyright free composed material for the internet will be the trick.
Hi Steam Guy Willy,
You are right. Having that extra boss material 'outside' the width of the sleeve lets you rotate and adjust the sheeve so nicely. That's what Sturart planned as you can see in the first photo.
But when a governor is introduced that extra material is lost. The grub screw ends up in the sheeve. The second photo shows what has to be done to get at it! This is awkward, if you have things hooked up and want to make fine adjustments. You just hope the grub screw is visible when you take off the back of the strap! :???:
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The beam engine is complete:
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I am pleased with the little extras that add interest to the basic model.
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Tom, some parts of the engine were definitely tricky. You know I cheated with the eight links... :embarassed:
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It was nice Tom to use some of those extral little goodies in the box such as those #9 pump parts.
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As I suspected, the compressed air does not give the slow, elegent motion that is expected from a steam powered beam engine.
Plan B will kick in with the building of the engine house.
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Simply beautiful John!! Well, not simple but beautifully done and finished. The diorama will only add to it all the more!!! Well done :ThumbsUp:
Bill
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Gorgeous John! Your engine is beautiful. Yes, those extra efforts do add significantly to the overall look of your beam!
And as always, very nice picture.
Kim
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Looks good John.
You need to remember that this is a model of a small beam engine, only a 7ft flywheel so it is never going to run at the sort of speeds that a large pumping beam engine would have run at particularly with no load.
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Thanks all for your kind words and encouragement throughout the engine's construction.
The second half of the project has been anticipated for quite some time. I look forward now to some moel making with some softer material and less demanding tolerences. :D
Hi Jason,
Point taken. I've heard that model engines always prefer a load to make them work properly (and steam!).
Our beam will have not only slow startup motion for the benefit of video work, but an option of much faster motion as well.
I am designing a power friction drive system for the flywheel, but will let that design gel as the engine house is being made.
You are right. This is a small engine with only a seven foot flywheel, so I don't want the house to overpower it.
Cheers...John
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Hi Steam Guy Willy,
You are right. Having that extra boss material 'outside' the width of the sleeve lets you rotate and adjust the sheeve so nicely. That's what Sturart planned as you can see in the first photo.
But when a governor is introduced that extra material is lost. The grub screw ends up in the sheeve. The second photo shows what has to be done to get at it! This is awkward, if you have things hooked up and want to make fine adjustments. You just hope the grub screw is visible when you take off the back of the strap! :???:
Hi, A lovely engine and one is always at liberty to change some of the parts and castings to make it look more authentic. I do have a large pile of redundant castings that might be the basis for a hybrid !! A bit like that motor car in the Johhny Cash song.!!. Having the sheave and strap that way round actually gives you more 'meat' for the grub screw !! but is it a bit awkward drilling the hole for the grub screw ?
[/quote]
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Gorgeous is all I can say. It is so nice to see the engine finished and not still sitting under my bench.
It will be even better with it's wee house as well.
Tom
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Thanks Tom,
You made all of this possible.
Now our attention can go back to the engine house. A window will be added to the west wall. It is good to be able to go back now to the mock-up and determine these changes.
I think that when coming down the stairs a bit of light would be welcomed. It would also give some feeling of openness by being able to look outside as you came down.
The window is rectangular being 2ft. wide by 4 1/2 ft. high. But on the ouside, it will have a circular top halfway into the wall. If the window was circular all the way through., it would interfere with beamwork along the inner wall.
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:popcorn:
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Engine looks superb
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Let there be light!
Thanks Nick.
John
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Call in the masons...
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Still following along and admiring John. :popcorn:
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
The west wall of the engine house has been interesting to buid with its window and interior courses of capped brick.
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The exterior of the west wall going to be brick and stone I assume? If you do a brick arch over the window it's going to be interesting to see how you do it. I would imagine a brick arch would involve individually trimming a lot of itty-bitty bricks.
Don
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Hi Don,
I don't concentrate much on exterior wall veneer treatments. I guess we woud call my treatment today 'stucco' (photo 1). Not exactly historically correct to the time. I just could not afford the brick to veneer the external faces of my builds. But I do know about your vision of radiating bricks around an arch- perhaps even with a keystone.
Here is a simple early arrangement of brickwork around Victoria's base (photo 2).
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Earlier constrution photos showed the method of constructing a groove to house a sliding wall section that could be removed to access the engine' lubricator.
Here are some shots of its construction. I lucked out by finding styrene strips that were white through and through. Muntins and mullions had to be placed on both sides of the window.
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The east wall...
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John:
I was just wondering what the walls would look like. But I would have to disagree with you, a stucco exterior of the building is not historically incorrect. Maybe a painted, or stained, stucco wall with the window openings left natural and scribed to simulate stone. That way you'd still get your fitted stone and keystone look.
Don
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Thanks for the suggestions Don.
The focus will continue on interior details that set the stage for the engines.
The project to date...
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Excellent as usual John. Is that 1/12 scale?
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Yes, one inch to the foot. The window in the west wall is 4' high. The walls repreent 11' above the engine room floor. The future beam deck gallery will be up at about 8'. The walls above that floor will represent only 3' of wall. They would continue on up to the rafters about 16 - 20' above the floor below.
One reason for leaving 3' upstairs is so that when the stair railings come up, they will be level with the top of the model walls.
Thanks for asking.
John
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John, the reason I asked is that there some mylar templates available that take a flat surface and make it look like a brick wall. They are used with spackle/thinned drywall mud and when done, can really look the part. Much cheaper than the wee slips that you are using. I can bring them over for you to see if you are interested.
Tom
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Tom,
Thanks for the kind offer.
I'll email you.
John
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Its really coming together John. Looking forward to seeing the gallery go in as that should add even more interest to the diorama. Beautiful work as usual!!
Bill
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Hello John, Thank you and Tom for sharing all this. I have desired to build a diorama for over 40 years. A man in my local club Tom Alexander, now deceased use to make castings for shop machines . I am hoping his son will be taking over the foundry hobby and start selling these kits again.
If so I hope to build a diorama some day and power it with one of my model kits .
Keep up the good work, will be following along.
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Thank you gentlemen.
I am moving closer and closer toward the concept of being able to videotape this engine resting at 0 rpm while the camera comes up the stairs and sees it poking its head above the floor of the gallery and then sees the beam begin to very slowly move. To do this, I need more control over the power source.
A friction drive system is in the offing. I have the advantage of a deep flywheel pit where things can happen that will not be seen from above. The big questiion wil be to see if what I have in mind will have enough torque to drive all the moving parts where each one increases the overall resistance to the whole engine.
To get things going, I designed sliding horizontal bearing blocks to adjust wheel friction. Inspiration for these came from PMR's line shaft hangers.
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Will be interesting to see where you go with this John. What kind of camera will you use to "Walk" up the stairs into the gallery?
Bill
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Very nice bearings John ... just as you described to me.
Tom
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Thanks Tom.
Hi Bill,
The camera will be set up twice; once at low angle looking up the first flight of stairs to the landing, the second, on a boom looking down on the second flight coming up to the floor of the gallery. With a remote control,the camera can slowly zoom in on each part of the journey up with zoom controls giving the impression that we are ascending the stairs.
At least that's the theory... ::)
Long way off though... :???:
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If you're not already familiar with them, you should probably investigate the tiny cameras meant to ride on model trains, etc. such as this one advertised by Micro-Mark...
https://www.micromark.com/Wireless-Micro-Camera-System-with-Sound-2-4-Ghz
With such a device, the camera could literally walk the details of the diorama.
[If interested, search for better prices than those of Micro-Mark. They're ridiculously overpriced on almost everything they sell.]
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Yes Marv,
I've seen those little cameras. They would be great on a mounted device such as a locomotive as you suggest. You've seen camera men on the playing field at sports events walking with a video camera on a vertical stalk. Somebody invented a gyroscope that runs in a housing on the stalk of the camera the man holds as he walks or even runs! Steady as a rock!
I don't think I would have much luck steadily moving my hand up the stairs holding a mini camera between thumb and forefinger. But I appreciate your input.
I could see it mounted in the foreman's office on the machine shop diorama focused on the running line shafts through the window. ;)
The opening in the gallery floor of the engine house was cut with a small router, the milling machine and a drum sander chuck in the pillar drill press.
Here are two shots of the subfloor and framing so far. Things stop now until the stair openings are determined.
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Credit must be given to Tom for suggesting that a curve at the back of the opeining for the beam would look very smart to match the curved entablature arms.
Thanks Tom! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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It looks fantastic to me John, especially that perspective shot from below!!
Bill
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What can I say John ... I think that looks great! Well Done!
Tom
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Excellent :praise2: :praise2: :wine1:
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John:
Will the gallery floor be attached to the walls or will you be able to lift that out separately?
Don't forget you'll need to leave some sweepings and other stuff laying around on the floor like you did around the Victoria's machine shop.
Don
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Thank you for the compliments fellows. Much appreciated.
Hi Don,
Yes, the whole concept of the engine house is break-away. The gallery will be lifted out and the east, west and south walls can all be removed leaving the engine standing free.
When I was building the prototype for the diorama out of foam board, I would forget every now and then that I couldn't just glue a part against two walls! For example, the stair landing and second flight of stairs will have to be free of the back wall when disassembly is required.
Thanks for asking.
Cheers...John
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Don,
Here is a shot of the gallery under construction - removed from the model.
John
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Since you are building the diorama to showcase the engine I thought that the gallery would be removable. From a couple of the pictures it looked like it could be taken out - I thought I'd ask about it to be sure.
Don
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Hi Don,
Yes, being able to remove the the gallery floor is critical for fitting the stairs in place as will be seen later.
Here is the first flight of stairs and the landing. The post is fabricated to represent a cast iron post to which all the other parts can be bolted.
Things change as we go along. You can see that a beam has been removed above the window. That beam could possibly hit your shoulder as you ascent the stairs.
Cosmetic painting in the offing... ;)
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Because the west wall can be removed, it is easy to locate the mounting holes in the beamwork above for the second flight of stairs.
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Looks fantastic John. Don't forget the OSHA approved handrails on the stairs though :D
Bill
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Thank you Bill,
Yes, I was thinking 3/32" square brass for the posts with a 1/8" cap rail. I've left enough room so that they can slide by the post. I was thinking a black iron finish.
Thoughts are welcome for the design of the posts around the beam opeining. I would like to have the rails curve around each end. Lots of time to think about that one :D.
John
P.S. Let's change that to 1/16" square stock for the posts and 3/32" for the cap rail. It really is interesting to see how a tiny change in sizing affects the overall look of the project.
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This day has been coming for quite some time. But now, with the stair openings established, the floor can be planked.
You will note a little brass 'L' shaped piece of metal at the edge of the staiar opening. That sits on the cast iron post.
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Coming along well John. Once again all the little details really add to the whole!!
Bill
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Yes Bill, a lot of fun is had playing with those little details - a coil of rope here, a ladder rack there, some tools on a metal table...
Things get interesting now as we come around the curves with the planking:
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John, will the railing follow the curves of the oval cutout too?
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Yes, I'm thinking that back in the day, there may have been square cast iron posts with round profile sections except where the rails pass through. A ball on top? If holes were cast in the square sections, a round rail system would be possible.
I think I would bend round rails around each end of the opening unsupported. The opening is only about three feet wide.The rails coould probably span this curve without support.
So, six posts - three on each side? Glosss black paint - brass or black rails?
:thinking:
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Go for Brass Rails. I can visualize that.
Or I can see the rails and posts made of iron and everything but the rails painted, those might have been smoothed and polished. (Labor was cheap in those days?)
--ShopShoe
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Brass would look nice, but I suspect the black painted rails would be more authentic. But since labor was cheap, there could have been someone to keep brass rails polished up too. Your choice, neither would detract in the slightest from the diorama :)
Bill
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Brass would be a bit too much bling for me but painted posts and bare steel rail would still look Ok. And if you paint the posts nobody will know if you glue a ball into a depression on the top of the post :)
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Thank you all for your input on the gallery railing around the opening. One thing for certain will be painted posts - red! The Victorians loved accent colour and the engine's red wil compliment the whole project.
Here is the more utilitarian and lighther stair railings. I did not set off the smoke alarm, but found the paper master plan used to make the stairs very helpful in setting up the jig.
Here are the two sets of railings before being cleaned up and painted glossy black.
Cap rails will be added later. Strip brass has been ordered or I would have put them on now. I think they can be glued on with CA glue.
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Nice John, and not overwhelming either.
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
The lugs soft soldered to the rails made it quite easy to bolt the railings to the stringers.
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In this photo, the first set of raiing has been shortened. You can see all the clamps holding what was original with a newly placed post on the left. I am glad I did not throw the jig out before making this change!
The clamps keep everything in the same plane and prevent anything from springing while soldering.
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One step at a time...
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One step at a time...
Pun intended no doubt :) Looks great John!!
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Yes, 2/3's of a pun at best.
The stairs in place...
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Sometimes you don't think of things until you step back and have a look at what you have made. And step back I wouldn't want to do standing on the gallery near the stairs.
I have to make a wall around the opening now to keep somebody from taking a header into the stairwell!. ::)
I will make a low wall and paint it. The styrene strips come in handy for trim work. The wood is grooved panelling left over from the two previous dioramas.
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Incredible John. I would swear I was standing in a museum or and old pump house ...a testament to your skills and photography.
Bill
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Thank you Bill. You embarrass me with your accoldates.
The wainscot around the stairwell nears completion.
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No intent to embarrass John, I just really appreciate your attention to the details and find the whole process fascinating. I am sure I am not alone in that :)
Bill
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Understood and appreciated Bill.
Now work can begin on the south wall of the diorama. Here we see four beginning cuts made with the table saw blade that define the double door access to the boiler room. I woun't have to worry about fashioning hinges as the doors swing into the boiler room and forged hinges would be mounted on the boiler room side of the doors.
You can see the stair landing support ledger at the left. Boy it was tempting to glue that floor down earlier to get a better read on measurements when making the stairs.
This wall will also have seven courses of brick at the bottom.
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I just really appreciate your attention to the details and find the whole process fascinating. I am sure I am not alone in that :)
Me too - not that I can contribute with much here, but I'm impressed - both with the process and the results :praise2:
Best wishes
Per
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Thank you.
The south wall is now under construction. I am very pleased to have made the opening to the boiler room six feet wide. I will show it later in place.
This will allow a camera to shoot through the removed doors to at the back of the engine while it is running.
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Hi Tom,
Remember when you dropped a piece of green Corian off on my doorstep?
It has been put to good use. This is the last time we will see it. The south wall is nearing completion.
Actually, I might removed the wall once later to put a metal work table in the left corner here at the back.
Thanks again for the piece of material. :)
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You are welcome John and I am glad to see it put to good use. Carian is very useful material and I just used my last large piece to make something for the spinning wheel.
Tom
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Enjoy the spinning Tom.
Two projects are underway. The first two photo shows the tunnel leading into the boiler room floored, bricked and ready for the doors.
The second photo shows the wainscot walls around the stairwell. Those pins need some 1/12 scale pipe wrenches! ;)
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Here are the boiler room doors made from mahogany strips. I had intended to make the two doors in one piece and attach it as a single panel.
However, I have decided to cut the doors and fashion strap hinges to operate them.
That way, instead of removing the whole faux panel, I can swing each door open to let the observer see the engine running from the back.
I was able to find a copper tube in the scrap brass box for the hinge gudgeons. A 1/16" steel rod slips into it nicely.
A lucky day. :D
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More nice detail John. Still enjoying each update ;)
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
At first, I went on the internet to see if I could find cast strap hinges.
I did, but they were $13 a pair US and international shipping to Canada was $11.00 US.
Now,I've paid a lot of shipping costs and a lot for little individual items such as the broom in the Machine shop and the oil lamp in the Foreman's Office, but here, I decided to have a go at making my own hinges.
Now they are not as nicely detailied as cast ones would be, but they work!
Actually, the cast ones would be a bit too large anyway.
The first photo shows the copper gudgeons being notched.
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Working in real time here. Just screwed the doors in place...
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You did good John. I dare say those are superior to the cast ones as well!!! :ThumbsUp:
Bill
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The option of opening and closing the boiler room doors was a good move I think.
Thanks Bill. As you say, it's all in the details.
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Here are two photos of the project to date; one without the gallery and one with it in place. The capping is still not on the stair rail. The brass material is backordered apparently.
There is a backstory to the third photo... ^-^
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Lovely as usual John ... is the cap material brass?, and what size do you need?
Tom
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John, will your videographer friend be documenting this one as well?
Bill
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The gallery really sets it off, love it!
....
There is a backstory to the third photo... ^-^
So the next diorama is King Tut's chariot shop?! :Lol:
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John this is a fascinating thread / build !
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Thank you all for the positive comments.
Not to worry Tom, the strips will be here next week.
Bill, yes, I will be contacting Michael soon about videotaping - if I get the friction drive system working :D
When I was hanging the industrial lights in the machine shop, I was able to drop them down on conduit about a foot because the ceiling height was over 12' high. But the height under the gallery is only a little over 7 1/2' high.
I used the dollhouse lights again that were, I suppose, intended to hang down on chain over the dining room table. But this time, I shortened them up as much as possible to give headroom under the gallery.
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for the comment about the gallery. I am looking forward to seeing that beam slowly working through the opening.
But when operating, some may wish to see more of the engine's operation and remove the gallery floor temporarily.
What do you do with it? It can not be set down on a flat surface without compromising the stairs, lights or the stairwell walls. :shrug:
The answer was to make a separate cradle where the gallery floor could be docked. The cradle will also be handy when working on the railings around the beam opening.
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I removed the south wall to work on a cabinet under the stairs.
Cans of grease and oil must have been stored somewhere, and here was a logical spot.
Solder wire was used to make the oil containers look as though they had rolled edges at the top and bottom of their tin tops and bottoms.
Vintage labels were reduced in a printer to fit them.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
:cheers:
Pete
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Perfect place for it John. As always, very nicely done!!
Bill
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It strikes me that I could build the most accurately made beam engine in the world, but it wouldn't look anywhere near as good as yours!
John
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John ... it just keeps getting better!
Tom
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Thanks Tom.
Hi John. Thank you , but you must remember that I did not fabricate all the parts of this engine. Tom turned the flywheel, bored the cylinder and made the pillow blocks.
:embarassed:
And I had the help of a machine shop here and there.
Your engine is fantastic from your own hands. I admire your machining skills.
John
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The friction drive system is developing. A lot of missteps were made in the planning, but things are progressing now.
The first picture shows the diorama upended so that work can be done under the base of the model.
Originally, I was going to use a commercially made sewing machine friction pulley to drive the flywheel. You can see in photo two that the flywheel pit has been opened to expose the flywheel's rim. But I decided the commercial pulley was too small.
I made my own friction pulley using Pau Ferro hardwood with a brass boss and rubber 0-rings.
The brass bearings I made earlier were binding when screwed to the wood surrounding the frame of the diorama. So here we are with new pillow blocks and ball bearings! They will be mounted directly onto the Corian base.
The trick now will be to mount the assembly so that minor adjustments can be made to make the friction pulley bear against the flywheel.
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Mounting the pillow blocks has taken some fussing. I want the friction pulley axle to run free and effortlessly in its ball bearings when mounted. Then the pillow block mounting bolts will be loosened and the shaft pressed forward to make contact with the flywheel.
To achieve this, slotted holes have been milled into the pillow block mounting lugs.
While upended, I thought I would also show a picture of the air line with its quik disconnect from underneath. If this all works out, it will not be needed. ;)
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So John, maybe I am missing something....where is the friction going to come from if the friction wheel is running in the ball bearing pillow blocks? Is there some way to add drag to the shaft or what?
Bill
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I think the wheel is stuck to the shaft. the bearings are on the pillow blocks.
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Yes but the pillow blocks won't provide much friction :headscratch:
Bill
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They are not meant to. The "Friction" is between the O rings stretched around the pully and the rim of the flywheel.
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From what I understand, he is going to drive the friction wheel to move the flywheel simulating the engine working.
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Ah that makes much more sense then. I thought it was to give some "Load" to the engine. My error :)
Bill
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Right you are gentlemen.
At first, I was thinking that I would have to drill holes right up through the floor of the engine room to bolt the pillow blocks in place. This I did not want to do. Even with a button headed bolt in the floor above, the bolt head would be a detractor.
Epoxying riser blocks in place with studs extending up out of them was next in thought. But in the first photo, you can see that the #4-40 gun tap is cutting a very nice thread in the Corian. No glue necessary.
Jason, you are right; the O-rings will now be arranged to bear against the flywheel rim. However, I want to be able to increase the pressure incrementally unitl it is just right - and be able to increase the pressure if necessary as the engine wears in the O-rings.
Next will be such a mechanism.
By the way, the o-rings were trimmed in the metal lathe when they were mounted on the pulley to take off the 'slick' and moldng line on the rings and leave a nice, uniform grippy rubber surface.
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The diorama has been lying on her back for the better part of a week while the friction drive system has been designed below.
I wanted to be able to incrementally move the bearing blocks with equal pressure at both blocks - hense the threaded rods bearing against the side of each block.
It should work... We'll see tomorrow. :thinking:
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Sorry John, but I am still confused. I guess it will become clearer in time as this all comes together.
Bill
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It's too late now but it seems a spring loaded pressure arrangement could work well here. Like a phono turntable drive.
This diorama is just beautiful.
:popcorn:
Pete
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Sorry John, but I am still confused. I guess it will become clearer in time as this all comes together.
Bill
Pully with the o rings will be driven by an electric motor. Adjustable bearing blocks mean that it can be moved away from flywheel when running on steam or moved closer to add some load. It can also be used to rotate the flywheel (when the electric motor is running) at a slower speed than the model will run at so it looks more like a large beam engine doing say 20rpm.
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Thanks Jason. Well explained.
I like your idea of being able to move the pillow blocks forward to engage and withdraw to allow for steam or air propulsion.
In this project, I am only interested in advancing the blocks to engage so there is no mechanism to pull them back. The threaded rods could be considered simply 'push rods'. The threaded rod could be turned back of course, but it would not bring the block with it.
Something to consider if a designer wanted the option of both functions.
Jason, I am rather anxious about the amount of output torque the motor will require to drive the friction shaft. The motor will be directly connected to the friction axle (direct drive).
I will try a gearhead motor today.
Cheers...John
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One issue with operating the engine with an alternative power source will be that oil is not entering the cylinder. With steam and air, it is introcuced automatically.
Although not necessary, this photo shows how oil could be manually introduced into a horizontally mounted cylinder. But with the beam engine, the cylinder is mounted vertically and piping enters the steam chest from the side.
To get oil into the cylinder, I think the only way will be to lift the cylinder cover and manually squirt some oil into the cylinder.
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Thanks for the explanation Jason, I got it now. Just wondering though it the pulley with the o-rings on it might need some flanges...thinking the outer o-rings at least may try to work their way off the edge of the pulley.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Good observation, but the four O-rings are CA glued to the wooden pulley, They are not going anywhere. The circumference of the wooden pulley was coated first, then the O-rings slid on one at a time. When dry, more glue was introduced to the grooves between the rings and allowed to seep down between them bonding them together. As I mentioned, the pulley was then turned on the lathe to tidy things up and give the rings some 'tooth'.
Hi Pete,
Do you still have your turntable? Are you a lover of vinyl as well? ;)
Your suggestion of a spring operated tension system similar to the friction wheel under the edge of a turntable makes sense, but in this case a lot of force is required to bear against the flywheel - thus the bearing blocks that could be clamped tightly in place.
Edit: Now that I think of it, turntables went to direct drive. That's how the motor will be hooked up to the friction wheel axle.
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The motor...
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John a lot of early engines had "fat pots" which were like an oil pot that fitted to the cylinder cover for a vertical on on teh cylinder for a horizontal, Animal fat would be placed in them and as the engine warmed up so did the fat until it was liquid enough to be added to the cylinder. Something like that would solve your lubrication issues though an engine will run for a long time on a drop of oil.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Thompstone/DSC01837_zpspsallmcs.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Tidman%20Organ%20Engine/DSC00567_zpschpssq9h.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/Cameron%20Steam%20Pump/DSC03763_zpsa8szhexa.jpg)
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Oh my goodness Jason. :o
These are stunning photos!
Thank you for sharing and giving the information.
John
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John
I like the idea of a small geared motor. What is the torque and revs of yours please?
John
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Hi John,
These little gearhead motors are very easily found on the internet are very inexpensive. When I opening the packaging I was disappointed with the size of the little motor atop the gearbox. I looked like a little toy motor.
Boy,was I wrong. The torque is in the gearbox. You can order the motor in a wide choice of RPM's. I chose the highest - 100 RPM. It is a 12 volt DC motor John. I also bought the speed controller that is often featured with the motor.
If all works out, I should be able to simulate the bearm beginning to move and slowly coming to a pleasing, slow stroke. Hopefully, no external impetus, like your hand cranking the flywheel to get it going will be seen.
Thanks for asking.
John
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It has come time to attach this litle motor to the friction axle. I have been asking my wife to help me turn the diorama up onto its back to mount the bearings under its floor, but now, I'd like to be able to have it sitting upright whie adjustments can be made to the amount of tension to add to the friction pulley and at same time rotate the wheel in its proper vertical orientation. You can't really test things when the model is lying on its back.
Ergo the saw horses. Now all I need is a rolling mechanic's trolley to work under the model on my back. ;D
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I hope you have the diorama firmly anchored to those two boards spanning the horses. I wouldn't want to think that an inadvertent bump or jostle could land months of dedicated work in a pile on the floor. With a crawler bumping the horses themselves is also a possibility.
Another approach to consider would be to anchor the diorama to tall blocks placed on a table and slip a large mirror underneath. (My aged back can't tolerate crawlers so I tend to think of solutions like this.)
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Hi This is the oil pot as used in the1836 engine that is still running in the Ramm Brewery in Wandsworth.............
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Thanks for the photo.
I see the concern Marv. I'm getting up there when it comes to getting down and up again! :old:
The horses are high enough that I was earlier able to just reach under the floor of the model and loosen the pillow block nuts by feel to remove them.
I cut the axle to its correct length and did manage to get under the model on my back and reach up to refasten the blocks to their studs.
Tom, you were right when you suggested that the model could be simply raised if a wheel extended below the base of the diorama. I used maple dowels cut to 1/2" to put under the round feet.
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I am over the moon with this first trial! :pinkelephant:
The first synchronous AC motor I purchased is bring used here to establish friction contact. I gently pushed against the bearing block nearest the flywheel and away she went! :cartwheel:
It is a 25 RPM motor turning the engine over at 7.5 RPM.
The engine is soundless and the beam is beautiful to watch. Unfortunately, it is running a tad slow. I think 16 RPM was the top speed for pumping beam engines with large flywheels.
We will test next a second motor - a 100 RPM 12 volt DC motor that can be speed controlled.
Noise may be a factor. I have ordered a third 60 RPM DC motor of different design just in case...
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That is great news John, not that I had any doubts!! Obce you are happy with the speed, I hope to see a video of her running. The recent pictures of the diorama, even less the gallery, look great!!
Bill
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Your drive system reminds me of how we start our Ruston Hornsby HR-6 at the museum, we have a 2 cylinder lLisrer petrol motoer with one of the rubber tired wheels from a Bren Gun Carrieron its out put shaft that can be swung against the flywheel of the Ruston. first we charge the air cylinder for the Ruston, turn the engine over, and by that means start the Lister(saves cranking), there is then plenty of time to start the Ruston without the air. after the first start I often just use the air start, but as the Ruston lays idle most of the year it can be hard to get going at first. In later years than your diarama, the horizontal , 28hp Ruston would fit in the same possition as the beam engine.
Ian S C
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Thanks Bill. A video is definitely in the cards.
Thanks for the info Ian.
Now that I am going to try a 12 volt DC motor, I am using an AC adaptor.
Tom, remember that little tray of goodies that came with the kit? In it were several machined glands. I used one to make a female plug for the adaptor. The central brass pin was turned and pressed into a turned piece of Lexan plastic.
I just could not see an electrical cord attached to the model.
I know the sockets are readily available online, but I wanted to try making one myself.
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Looking very good John ... I told you that those "extras" would be useful.
Cheers
Tom
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Thanks Tom. You are right. Those little pieces are continuing to find use in this diorama.
We are building a steam engine. Any exposure to wiring, motors, speed controllers, in my opinion must be minimized. We are thinking in the 19th century with this build, not electrically driven machines. So I wanted to downplay any suggestion of an electric drive for this beam engine.
From above, you have no hint that there is a friction wheel hidden in the flywheel pit. So I am loathe to having a motor or a speed controler seen even from the back of the diorama. Plans are in place to build a cubpboard in the engine room that will conceal all evidence of an electric system.
Here we see a discrete port for the 12 volt adaptor plug. I did not like the look of the socket mounted in view on the outside of the exterior wall. :disagree:
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It's attention to that sort of "out of sight" detail that makes your dioramas so good, John.
I'm really enjoying this build...
Pete
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That's about as hidden as things can get John. Nicely done.
Bill
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Thank you Pete and Bill.
Your kind comments are very much appreciated.
Here is one final look under the floor of the diorama at the friction pulley with its axle and adjustable bearings.
John
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I am not yet satisfied with the choice of motor to drive this friction pulley, so anohter has been ordered.
In the meantime, my attention turns to oilers for the engine room. I was not aware of so many different designs. Pages 291 to 293 of Stringer's 1895 tool catalog were very helpful in determining 1/12 scale for the different models.
The Draper bent spout (FIG. 1042) shows an optional bent spout and gives it a length of 9 inches. Using a drafting scale and the printer, I was able to reduce the image 38% to get a spout length of 9 inches. :) I will do this also with the other images to get their sizing as well.
It should be a good challenge to make these oilers and arrange them on a table in the engine room.
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Definitely looking forward to this John. Looking forward to seeing how you make these.
Bill
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So am I Bill!
Here's the table...
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I started with the easiest one that does not have a handle - the Draper.
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That is really nice looking John!
You're attention to detail never ceases to amaze me.
I love the bench and the cans too!
Kim
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Thanks so much Kim. I must admit, the little detail items are as much fun to make as the engines!
The next design I'm trying are oilers that were used on railroads adapted for both locomotive and stationary engines. They were made of two heavy steel seamless drawn parts with a large nozzle.
Ours is brass, so I guess we can call it a 'special edition'. I used brass so that I could soft solder the handle to the handle strap. There are five parts to this oiler.
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Fantastic John!!! I love those :whoohoo:
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
This little fellow is in construction. It is not an oiler - it is an Perfection filler can. The Profection series involved a valve that could be operated with the thumb to control the flow of oil and prevent drips.
You can see the hole for the valve just ahead of the handle.
A bit of gap filling primer should close up that gap at the top of the spout.
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At that scale the primer should do the trick John. Cute little fellow too. You have been busy !!
Bill
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Yes, Bill, each day finds me in the shop.
Here you will find the finished oil filler sitting on the table. It has been 'aged' with some steel wool.
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Delightful. I love miniatures.
If Queen Mary's dollhouse needed a machine shop, I'm sure they would want you to build it.
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Thank you Marv.
My wife and I visited a dollhouse retail and supply outlet in Toronto last year. What an amazing place! You would not believe the cost of some of the Victorian hand made furniture. The supply of doors, windows and trim mouldings avaliable in basswood is also quite extensive. Quite a hobby.
The mailman delivered a package this morning. Timely - work on the machine room floor finished today.
But look at the small size of that output spindle. Ouch!
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Looks like a coupling and extended shaft may be in order, looks like a very sturdy motor though.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
I agree. The motor looks very capable of doing the job. It was advertised as a very high torque motor.
It looks like a coupling alone will connect us up to the friction axle.
You can see the mess I've made from two previous attempts with other motors. We should be able to clean things up with this new motor. Also, you will recall that we are going to build a cupboard or wall of some sort to hide all electrics at the back in the boiler room.
This engine could be running with friction only today! Two set screws in place and we should be good to go. :D
P.S. The motor held in the hand is soundless. You feel only some slight vibration. But when you hold it against the south wall, sound is transmittted. Rubber mounting washers should fix that.
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Hopefully the third time (motor) will be the charm John.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Close but no cigar.
I think it is time to step away from the drive system for awhie and go upstaris and work on the beam railing.
Also, I will later go back to the first AC motor that was perfect in every way except for such a low RPM. The other alternative is to gear it myself with a pinion and spur gear set. I'm sure a pulley and belt setup would slip.
The solution is out there - I just have to find it.
Here is the present hookup...
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Sorry for another dead end on the driving motor John. That kind of thing can be quite frustrating. But it will be equally rewarding when you get it worked out. And I have no doubt that you will get it to your liking soon!
I'm sure you'll get it worked out eventually!
Kim
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Thanks for the encouragement Kim. :)
The setbacks increase the resolve to get the system working nicely for museum, library and other display uses for the diroama where air compressors are not available or would not be appreciated!
Cheers...John
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What's the drive rpm your looking for?
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The solution is out there - I just have to find it.
I like your way of looking at this issue, John. My money is on you finding it.
Jim
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Jim. It's a learning curve.
Hi Hoitoen,
I am probably looking for a flywheel rotation of about 16 RPM. A 25 RPM motor attached direct drive to the friction axle moves the flywheel at 7.5 RPM. The DC motor you see in photo above is 75RPM - but not acceptable.
While the search is on, I've completed the wiring sysstem for the diorama's lighting. Everything is self-contained in the the gallery; battery, switch, wiring and lights. The battery is 12 volts DC (A23).
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You could check here. They have a large selection
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-geared-motors/4130622/ (https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-geared-motors/4130622/)
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Yes, many gearhead motors can be found on the internet.
A pump room must have at least a pair of pipe wrenches at hand - one to hold the pipe; the other to turn the fitting. Most often they are bought in pairs. I have two hanging on my tool board in the shop. You may note an interesting vintage wooden handled wrench mounted below them.
Castings are about the only way to go with these wrenches in 1/12 scale that have so many distinguishable features to them. This pair came from Cedar Rapids, IA in the United States. Nicely detailed....
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Those are nice little reproductions John, withour your finger it would be hard to distinguish them from the real thing :)
Bill
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I agree Bill.
The search is still on for a silent DC motor. Tom has kindly provided the controller, switch and rheostat for it. I think I may have to step up to a more expensive motor than what is available on Amazon and eBay.
Meanwhile, attention turns to the beam opeining in the floor of the gallery. There probably would have been trim pieces placed around the edge of the opeining to tildy things up. Boards would have been cut in angled pieces to curve around the ends of the openings.
Some segmented turning on the wood lathe provided these little pieces. If you look closely at the first picture, you will see two pieces of waxed paper. This made turning the ends for the opening without having to cut the resulting circle in half.
The single oak strip has been milled to close the opeining.
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The completed parts...
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Before...
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...and after.
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Beautiful John. That adds a lot to an otherwise "plain" gallery opening. I love it!!
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
I agree. That opening looked rather bland and unfinished. The edge of the trim also locates the posts.
Jason, you nailed it when you suggested that a ball could be placed in a dimple in the end of the posts. Those 'dimples' are actually the tailstock centres.
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Looking good
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Thanks Jason.
This photo shows the setup for the drilling of six post holes.
I have decided to not put a square flange on the bottom of the posts, but keep it simple and allow the square bottom section of the posts to sit directly on the floor behind the trim.
Steeling up the courage to drill that first hole... :???:
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The little balls on the top of each post are the icing on the cake John. What a neat and simple idea!!
Bill
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Looks very good John. That trim on the floor opening turned out particularly well.
Tom
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Hi John,
More delicious eye candy! Wonderful work
Cheers Kerrin
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Thanks fellows.
The straight sections of railing are cut from 5/64" music wire. But finding the proper bending material for the large diameter at each end was a challenge. Atttempting to heat and bend the steel wire was a dismal failure. Brass was not much better bent cold. It had a lot of 'spring back'. :???:
Then the lightbulb went on and I thought of house wiring - soft copper. It turns out that 12 gauge copper wire is 5/64" in diameter. Bingo! :D
A bending jig was made to bend the wire. The diameter of the large wheel was smaller than required so that the little spring back amount put just enough outward pressure to fit snuggly in the post holes.
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Here is one round rail section being tested. It is simply held in place at each side by a little bit of outward pressure on the post holes.
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I hate to even ask this, but are you going to put a post in the center of that curved section? It would seem to be an awfully long unsupported span if you don't.
Not to mention that it could be subject to damage from those curious giant fingers that are always attracted to models.
Don
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Now Don, that is a very good question. A couple of hours ago, the answer would have been 'no'.
I've been wrestling with that option while making the six. I've actually seen a curved steel railing go unsupported alll the way round to the side posts on a site featuring beam enignes in England. But it does seem to make sense to have one at each end. It would also keep them parallel when positioning them for gluing. Their bases might have to altered though to fit around the oak trim piece. A bit of the curved railing pieces will go into the two side post holes shortening them a bit. Probably have to bring the end posts bases into the trim a bit.
So the two new supports will be called 'Don's Posts'. ;)
Cheers...John
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That looks like a perfect bend to me John. Will there be another curved piece in the upper position as well?
Bill
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It's great, I agree it is going to be even better with the end posts. These little details really finish the model off nicely, it's something I've never been very good at, and to get it to look so good you still need put the same care and attention into these as the rest of the model. I am learning a lot - one thing seeing it done and another thing doing it mind you! Fantastic work John.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thank you gentlemen.
This afternoon, I painted the posts with their special paint. Brass is difficult to cover. It tends to flake at the slightest knock. Hopefully the high build primer underneath will help.
This paint takes a long time to harden. As I write, it is still off-gassing. It feels dry to the touch but it's not. I've heard that some of these formulated paints can take a week to harden properly. I guess that's why they use heat lamps in the auto refinishing paint booths. My impatience to get on and see how things look by handling parts that have not hardened properly has lead to fingerprints in the paint!
There will be a question on the floor for discussion when these posts and the black railings are in place. Should the posts be black as well? They would have been cast.
One point of note - I've knocked a couple of balls off the posts as they were being handled (not enough glue contact between the dimple and the ball).
So I mixed up some quick set epoxy and formed a ring around the neck of each post just under the balls. It turned out to be a good move, because not only did it strengthen the joint, it made the ball look like a casting flowing into the post. Just a bit of filing redefined the neck of each post.
Now to wait for the paint to dry. :)
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The east, west and south walls have been removed for some upcoming changes in the boiler room. Here's a rare glimpse of what the first flight of stairs look like without the surrounding walls...
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Nice John, just checking in to get my daily fix of the diorama. What is the status of the electric motor, any luck finding one more to your liking?
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Thank you for that nice comment. It's feedback like that that makes this forum so special.
I am awaiting another DC gearhead motor.
Here are two photos of the installation of an on/off reversing switch. Again, I'm trying to be subtle about the use of current to assist this steam engine.Those wires will disappear in a ventilated cupboard.
Bill, I would like to state again here, that this beam engine was designed to run on steam or compressed air. It has a functioning piston and a double acting slide valve. The only reason an 'electrical device' has been introduced is for historic and video purposes.
I believe the flywheel of these engines had to be either gently levered by crowbar acting on a fulcrum or rotated slowly by small barring engines to bring the slide valve into position where the engine could start itself.
Thus the friction system. I will be able to photograph the engine starting from dead stop with a speed controller.
The 'assist' will also maintain steady slow speed and allow the diorama to be used virtually anywhere where there is an electrical outlet.
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The potentiometer controls the speed of the engine.
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John, in the last two photos, is that upper cutout for the switch shown in the previous two photos?
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Yes, here are the two controls mounted on the buttress.
You can see the beginnings of the new boiler east wall to the right. The boiler room is being extended out another two feet (2 inches). You can see the leads coming through the added wall. Reason for extending the boiler room will become clear as we progress.
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Thanks John, looking forward to seeing the "expansion" plans :)
Bill
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You are welcome, Bill.
Things are starting to make sense now with all these wires coming through the east wall.
The control board is seen in the first photo; wired in the second.
The green motor block with two set screws is on the left; the power input block is on the right (+) and (-) . You will see two red lights on the left; one will light up when the motor is running clockwise (CW); the other when running counterclockwise (CCW).
The star shaped aluminum piece is a heart sink.
I know very little about control boards, but appreciated what they have to do! :o
Now we build a wooded louvered box to cover all this stuff up and get us back into the 19th century. ;)
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Splendid attention to detail as ever :praise2: :praise2: Still following along and enjoying :wine1:
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Thank you Roger. Good to have you looking over my shoulder.
Before I finish up with construction in the boiler room, I have to raise the diorama. Tom, you were spot on when you suggested the floor could be raised to accommodate a larger motor. I think you referred to the concept of a basement.
Here we see red oak being cut to lift the model. Adding this very strong oak will also protect the soft MDF walls and trim at the sides. It sort of finishes off the look. The Polylastomer feet will still be placed under the oak.
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Nice John, and definitely an addition to and not a detraction from the overall appearance!!
Bill
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John:
If you want to avoid the screams of "FIRE - FIRE" when the very un-19th century-ish red glow is spotted from the CW/CCW LED's on your control board, just paint over them with a couple of coats of flat black paint. It won't hurt them at all.
Don
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Thanks Bill.
Don, I have never really thought about that. You are right. The glow will definitely show through the louvres.
Maybe I need to install a fire bucket in the boiler room! ;D
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While I very much agree that you don't want to "see the light" ;) I wouldn't paint them John, as you might need them for debugging later - just put a piece off black tape over them, so there's no light when exhibited :ThumbsUp:
Oh - I should mention that I still follow and enjoy your build very much :praise2:
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Well, the glow from the louvered box may be of interest to some and a great segue to showing just what's 'under the hood'.
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That looks great John. Will be interesting to see how many even notice the "glow."
Bill
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That is a gorgeous addition John, and it really looks like it should be there.
Tom
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Thanks Tom.
Here is the boiler room wall sans motor. Cross bracing will be added between the doubled beams. Then we are at the corner of linger and wait for the motor.
Looking forward to revising the lighting under the gallery floor. :)
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Until recently, industrail stye lights with broad, green shades in 1:12 scale were not available. I happened to come upon them on a miniature distributor website in New England. They do not come with bases.
The lighting system on this diorama is self-contained. Battery, lights and switch are all attached under the gallery floor, thereby allowing the gallery to be completely removed.
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Still looking great John. That will be handy to have the lighting self contained on the underside of the gallery.
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
A change of plans is under way with the powering of the lights under the gallery. A single 12 Volt A23 alkaline battery is not sufficient to power four lights, so I am building a connecting block to fit up under the floor instead of a battery. Its mating plug will run down the back wall of the diorama to another connector. A DC Power Adaptor that has lots amperage will do the job when plugged in down at the back or side.
The original idea of being able to remove the gallery stands. Just unplug the connector and lift out the floor to reveal the engine. This will be helpful when it comes time to shoot video. ;)
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The lights are in place.
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That's very nice John, great atmospheric scene setting. No excuse now for your Victorian millwrights to not put in their 14 hour usual day ( with a few ten minute breaks ), just because it's winter and the days are short and dark ...! Dave
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What a great atmosphere John! The light fixtures sure add to the setting.
gbritnell
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Perfect John ! Can't wait for the final video, but the downer is it means the end of this fantastic build :-\
Bill
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Beautiful lighting, John!! Sure does set the atmosphere of an engine house..
:cheers:
Pete
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Looking wonderful and something else to aspire to on this really great forum ....Keep up the good wok !! :popcorn:
willy...............
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Thank you gentlemen. Your kind comments are appreciated and motivating.
I mentioned earlier that bending the radii for the ends of the railings was challenging.
I had to change the size of the rollers to account for the proper amount of spring back in the copper. The first picture shows the copper rod passing between the rollers; the second the copper sprung back to the correct amount.
The third picture show a piece of curved railing being tested. The lengths of straight railing may still have to be shortened to allow the copper to slip in half way through the posts at both ends.
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The railings are in place. They represent painted cast iron posts and black pipe.
Don, do you see your two end posts? Thanks for suggesting them. They helped keep the rails parallel.
I apologize for the blobs under the balls. I got carried away I guess when I was securing them with epoxy after a few had been knocked off. I should have taken more care to file the necks for a more gradual transition from the top of the squares to the balls.
I've said this before.Sometimes the unforgiving camera's eye sees what we miss at the time.
Nevertheless, I am happy with the railings as they now appear.
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Those look perfect John. It doesn't get any more realistic that that!!!
Bill
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John, it just, flat, doesn't get any nicer than that!!! More than worth the fiddling in my opinion.
Tom
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Fine work, John, mighty fine! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Pete
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Very impressive, John! You have nothing to be worried about here. It is beautiful!
Kim
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Hi John,
Those two extra post just make that railing!
Its just getting better & better!
Cheers Kerrin
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Very impressive John. Well done! :ThumbsUp:
Those end posts and curved railing really came out nice.
Jim
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Thanks all.
The search is still on for an electric drive assist. Compressed air currently is the motive force for the engine.
Here are some interesting shots of the diorama while focusing on the ladder - the last item to be made by me on this diorama.
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Another fine detail John. Those lights under the gallery will make for some excellent photo ops too casting shadows and a warm glow over the entire diorama :)
Bill
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Yes Bill, the lighting was well worth the extra work of changing the style and number of lights under the gallery.
The 12 volt DC lighting system is far more stable now with constant amperage from a 115 volt AC power adaptor.
The power for the motor is also converted from 115 volts AC to 12 volts DC.
Photo one shows the duplex for all this 'under the table' wiring.
Photo two shows the lighting AC adaptor and the motor voltage transformer plugged in.
Photo three shows everything ready to go.
I'm holding one of the 12 volt plugs in the last photo.
When the table is turned right side up, that power transformer will sit in its custom made shelf.
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Neat arrangement John, and all will be hidden too. Any leads on another motor yet?
Bill
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Thanks Bill and thanks for asking about the motor situation.
I have found a spot in Quebec that sells robot supplies. They have two motors of interest. I've ordered one, but if it doesn't work out, I can return it free of charge and apply a credit towards a second one that may be better.
I've learned that there are really only two manufacturers of high end hobby motors that are well made and have a very good reputation in the industry. A lot of the motors I've been trying are at the lower end and cheap.
I have been into this project for some time now and don't want to drop the ball at the finish line.
By the way, I love the sound of the engine's exhaust breathing when driven by air. I may suggest a sound track of this sound when the video is made using the electric assist.
Happy 2018!
John
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Thanks Bill.
Yes, there is a 12 volt DC Faulhaber Coreless gearhead motor that may just do the job.
The first photo shows the power plug that takes converted power from under the table to the control box.
The second photo shows power being fed up into the lighting system under the gallery.
Cheers...John
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To Date:
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Gorgeous John!! I love it :whoohoo:
Bill
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Looks Wonderful John ... Stay Warm!
Tom
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Very impressive JL........one little point..........50+ years ago as an apprentice working on British built water hydraulic extrusion presses......the Tool Shadow Board for each specific machine was say 15ft long x 5ft high
Each and every sized open ended standard and flogging spanner were there for every conceivable sized AF hexagon nut size fitted on the machine.............4lb & 14Lb hammers were also on the Board
Stillsons..[adjustable Pipe Spanners] were kept on a separate shadow board......
Any apprentice found using a Stillson on any part of the machinery would have been severely reprimanded :hammerbash: and his employment training record card so recorded.......
Any AF nut found mechanically damaged by Stillson marks would have created such furore, anger :Mad: and investigation
You show a pair of Stillsons on the engine top plate and yet so many machined AF hexagon nuts with perfectly unmarked faces ......just wondering should the Stillsons not be shown on the lower engine plate near some steam pipe unions......and at least 3 pair of appropriately sized AF open ended spanners substituted upstairs on the top plate
The use of an Adjustable Spanner [Shifter - as shown] was also frowned upon :hellno:......
Derek
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Interesting obervations Derek,
In this photo you will see two open ended spanners aside the pipe wrenches. I also have two much longer handled 'track rail' spanners made for the diorama. They must have been used when joining rail sections for leverage when joining plates with nuts and bolts.
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Ahah.........open enders :ThumbsUp:.....one must not let ones nuts be marked [with the Stillsons bite I mean]....... :Lol:........Derek
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I got caught up with this fine build this morning. :ThumbsUp:
I am particularly interested in how you best resolve your motor issue. My Colibri project will require a DC motor operating from 12V battery power for display at shows. Currently I don't know what kind of torque it will require or the speed. The wood version needs only 3.5 inch-pounds of torque, so I'm hoping my metal version won't be too many multiples of that. As for speed, the reduction is 8:1. If the entire motion is 30 seconds, then I'd need 16 RPM, but I'd like to be able to vary the speed to fit.
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Hi Derek.
Of course you are right about not using a pipe wrench on a square or hex nut. Good point about not having them upstairs. However, those are not Stillson wrenches - thery are Trimo wrenches. Stillson wrenches had wooden handles. I didn't know this. They are so famous, I guess everyone calls a pipe wrench a Stillson.
In Charles Strelinger& Comapny's 1895 catalog, they make a point of this;
"A good many prefer it [Trimo] on account of the fact that it ha no wooden handle.
If you have the catalogue, check out pages 183 - 183.
Cheers...John
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Hi Kirk,
I've made a few trips to the post office to return quite a few 12 volt DC gearhead motors in the past couple of weeks. I've learned a lot and realize you get what you pay for. I have found a German manufacturer that makes a high end coreless motor with encoder (which you do no not need to hook up), ball bearings and an enclosing case.
More about that later.
You are right. You will want to control the speed of the motor to top it out at about 16 - 20 RPM. That means a gearmotor and a potentiometer.
If you look at the pictures I have posted in the tread you will see a control board given to me by Tom that has an attached potentiometer and reversing switch.
You are also right about torque. I just realized that when driving the engine externally, a vaccuum is being created with each stroke of the piston. Something to consider. You can open the drain cocks or take more drastic measures and remove the 0-ring around the piston. Shame to do that though, because we are making real steam engines that operate as they should on steam or air. But, if you are serious about displaying the engine in public where compressors or boilers are not close at hand, having the engine run easily under your control may be something to consider.
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Another option I have done when motor-driving an engine hooked to a boiler is to remove the water full plug on the boiler, and open the throttle to let air flow through the boiler and pipes.
:popcorn:
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Hi Chris,
Excellent suggestions. I must make sure the steam valve is open.
Thank you for offering these suggestions.
John
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On page 36 of this thread, Ian mentioned the use of a rubber tired wheel from a Bren Gun Carrieron being used to rub up against a flywheel as I am doing with this beam engine. :atcomputer:
I am nearing the end of this thread and was thinking that it would be nice to have the option of using either compressed air or a motor to drive the model. As I have designed the model now, it's one or the other. Both are possible, but I'm getting ready now for an electric motor to drive the flywheel with a friction wheel rubbing up against the flywheel as Ian recalled. To operate the model as a model steam engine again with compressed air, the friction wheel would have to be manually disengaged below the floor of the model. Not an easy task.
But what if the friction wheel and the motor were on a sled? :thinking: Ian mentioned swinging the tired wheel aside.
Both motor and friction pulley could be mounted on rails under the model and moved in and out towards or away from the flywheel. Two nice brass handwheels mounted on threaded rods could be mounted on the side of the model to move the sled in or out.
Being able to operate the model anywhere is a big bonus, but, in my opinion, there is really nothing like the thrill of opening a valve and breathing life into the engine.
John
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Or put an idler wheel between, and have that idler able to pivot away? That would also let you adjust the pressure as the rubber tire wore down, while keeping the motor rigidly mounted.
:thinking:
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Don't quite understand that Chris.
I would think the motor would have to move with whatever is being adjusted.
John
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Don't quite understand that Chris.
I would think the motor would have to move with whatever is being adjusted.
John
Motor has a wheel on the shaft. That drives a second wheel that pivots on an arm around the motor shaft center, so it can engage/disengage from touching the flywheel.
Here is a sketch:
(https://s5.postimg.org/p88syi1xz/motor.jpg)
The motor (blue) drives a wheel (green). An idler (red) on a pivoting arm (black) swings the idler into/out-of contact with the flywheel (yellow). You could put a wing nut or somethiing to keep the pivotting arm in position at the left end.
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Chris,
I understand now. Makes perfect sense to design it that way. However, it will not work the way I have things set up now. The motor (blue) is connected directly to the axle of the friction pulley (red). That's why I was saying they would have to travel together toward or away from the flywheel.
However, in another life, your design would be the way to go! Simple lever action on the black connecting levers would adjust pressure.
Thanks for the explanatory diagram. Boy, you were fast with the diagram.
Cheers...John
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Too bad you don't have a jacking gear or barring holes to take advantage of with your gear motor.
Ya' know... your operators NEED some way to bar that engine into the proper position for starting. They NEED a safe way to get that engine rolled over. Besides if you are using a gear/sprocket on your gear motor you won't wind up with tire tracks on the flywheel. And the flywheel's chipped paint would be both period correct AND authentic. C'monnn... all ya gotta do is drill/file about a bazillion little holes around the perimeter of the flywheel. How long could it take?
Don
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Don, I'll take the tire tracks. A little touch of very fine steel wool will do the job as needed.
BTW, I discussed the need for a bar or a barring engine earlier in the thread when justifying the use of a motor.
Recently we have been discussing ways to reduce resistance and the amount of torque required to drive an engine with a motor. Yesterday, I thought I would test the free movement of linkage to the piston rod on my engine. Much to my chagrine I found that three of the links controlling the piston were overly stiff.
Aha... I'd found something to fix to reduce resistance. But, you see, in my effort to prevent the nuts from loosening earlier in the build, I had used a tiny bit of loctite to fasten them. You guessed it. The Loctite had migrated into the holes in the links bonding them together.
How do you release red Loctite? A discussion on an internet forum had several solutions or no solution. But two fellows had had success using a soldering iron! It worked like a charm. The heat could be localized with no damage to surrounding areas; areas that were even painted.
So there you go. Lesson learned.
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Releasing the grip of the loctite is easy, just some localized heat and you can break its grip. The tough part (as deiscussed in the other thread) is cleaning off the residue - scraping works, methylene cloride will disolve it too.
Looking forward to seeing how the new motor works!
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JL.....I was experiencing an issue with deflection of the 4.0 diameter output shaft of a 12 volt speed reducer shaft driving a piston pump at ~~ 50 RPM
To counter this, I installed miniature Plummer blocks with 4.0 mm diameter S/S shielded bearings pre installed ...directly on the outer end of the output shaft as below..........deflection problem totally eliminated and motor speed reducer whine greatly reduced
Derek
https://www.smallparts.com.au/store/partstab/housingsbearingpillowblockminiature/housingsbearingpillowblockminiature/a/1/
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Hi Derek,
Great minds think alike. In the first photo you will see two ball bearing blocks holding a 5/16 in. axle. The coupler for the motor shaft ( 6mm) can be seen attached at the end. So llke your setup, deflection is avoided with bearings on both sides of the flywheel.
Hello Chris.
Yes, heat was the trick. As you can imagine I was so glad to be able to remove the gallery to get at those links! I set it on a display table outside the shop to keep it out of harm's way (photo 2).
BTW, that's the apse of Cologne Cathedral in the background.
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Hello Everyone.
Something weird is happening to my email inbox. I am receiving hundreds of notices stating that I have had a response from members on the site.
Much earlier, I did indicate that letting me know if someone replied to my thread was acceptable, but I never got any responses. I had to physically go on the site and look to see if there was a response.
Now a constant stream of emails of such responses are appearing. Has something been changed with the site?
John
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Hello Everyone.
Something weird is happening to my email inbox. I am receiving hundreds of notices stating that I have had a response from members on the site.
Much earlier, I did indicate that letting me know if someone replied to my thread was acceptable, but I never got any responses. I had to physically go on the site and look to see if there was a response.
Now a constant stream of emails of such responses are appearing. Has something been changed with the site?
John
Ade put up a notice earlier - he fond a problem with the email server, and after fixing saw that it was sending out thousands of PM notices tht should have gone out long ago. Once the flood is past, it should be good again.
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Some of them nay go back quite a way too John. It should stop soon once things get caught up.
Bill
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Chris,
What do you think of my new power source - me!
:ROFL:
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Morning JL......if what I am thinking :headscratch:...is that you as a person would hand crank the engine to the correct take off point.....is an excellent idea
In a scenario of you demonstrating the starting engine ...say to a group of students,...your commentary could be ..."that a scale person performed this task manually by using the winding mechanism to rotate the engine for the pre-starting position".... "a small notice plate could also display a simplified text as to the requirement of the pre-starting position"
It would add at touch of realism and intertwine scale and a human requirement .....
Derek
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Hello Derek,
You have given me the perfect segue to express how I feel about manually cranking this engine. Goodness knows, a lot of time has been spent researching motors and controllers to give that slow, realistic look to this diorama. But being able to manipulate the engine by hand has so many teaching moments.
The teacher in me is seeing exactly what you have expressed. I can see holding the crank in front of students and saying something like:
" Now watch the engine's crank until it is at six o'clock. (I turn the crank and stop when the crank is exactly at the bottom).
"What do you notice about the beam?" Did you notice anything else happening?"
"Now let's continue until the crank is at twelve o'clock". (I continue to rotate the hand crank behind the diorama until the crank is at the top.)
"What do you notice now?"
"Notice what the eccentric is doing as I slowly rotate the flywheel."
Derek, when this engine is videotaped, my videographer will be able to turn the camera on with the flywheel at dead stop, and slowly begin to move.
I still have the option of going to electricity down the road, but the sensory feedback of cranking the engine manually from behind is quite fun.
Thanks for your comment.
John
P.S. Now I have to find music to accompany this slow, majestic event as it develops. That will be the hard part.
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JL...rotatory encoders, press button to pre-position, press button to steam :killcomputer: & rotate and recorded messages :Director: are fine for fixed exhibits in Technical Museums
You could have a few different explanatory versions......one for 7 YO youngsters, one for technical students......the same one as offered to 7 YO's could be offered to seniors & pensioners like many of our :old: members here ...however I am sure there will be some that ask.....but why? :headscratch:
I certainly believe you are going down the best path with personal engine hand winding and spoken presentations to those viewing :ThumbsUp:
Derek
PS....during our monthly Public Running days at Live Steamers, we often get small groups of people requesting access to our steaming bay areas where our members will provide detailed example and explanation of adding water to the tender, setting the fire in the boiler....thru to raising steam and entering the track system ...........essentially no different to what you are considering
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Thanks Derek,
The diorama is in its closing phase now. Here are some shots from the boiler room, a picture of an exterior wall with the credit plaque, a shot of the name plate and a final view of the engine room without the gallery or second flight of staris.
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Stunning as always John. Who did the name plate for you or if you did it how was it done?
Bill
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Thank you Bill,
The brass nameplate was engraved here in Peterborough by Austin Trophies. I actually taught the owner when he was in Grade Six!
I will mention the company in the video credits.
Thanks for asking.
John
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The construction phase of the project comes to an end with these closing photos.
Now for the book and the video...
Thanks all for the encouragement, support and help with the building of this Stuart beam enigne diorama.
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Another one i hate to see end John. Thanks so much for the closing pictures, especially the ones with the lights adding a warm glow to everything. And thanks too for taking us along on the journey!!!
Bill
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Oh John! It's beautiful, just beautiful. Congratulations on a wonderful build and thank you for taking us along.
Pete
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Another beautiful diorama, John. Just amazing!
Kim
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John, what can I say ... absolutely GORGEOUS!!! I have to tell you that the finished pics brought a tear to my eye. In my current state, with mostly non functioning hands, it would never have got done.
Cheers
Tom
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That's phenomenal.
The "night" photos are fantastic:
"The mighty Steam Engine is shut down for the night, resting for another day tomorrow. The tools have been put back in their places and the floor has been swept. All is ready for another day..." (except for the little worker standing in the back, looking at the engine and thinking about what needs to be done while he smokes his cigar.)
--ShopShoe
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No question, John, you've done it again. It's a miniature treasure. Bravo.
Frankly, I'm surprised that some museum hasn't offered you an outrageous salary to do models like this for their permanent displays. Seriously, send the Royal Ontario Museum some of your pictures and the URLs for your diorama threads.
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Another wonderful diorama John. Like Bill, I hate to see it finished. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
Jim
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Thanks everyone for the kinkd words.
At this point in time, video plans are on hold.
However, the book recording the build has been completed. 'Apple' does a wonderful job of producing picture books that allow text to tell the story as the pages turn.
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That looks wonderful John!! I have missed seeing your updates though and getting my daily diorama fix :)
Bill
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That looks tremendous!
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Absolutely gorgeous! What more can be said.
gbritnell
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great work and thanks for posting it all. The diorama really creates the right tone for the engine, so much more pleasing than just looking at a model.
I've a set of castings for one aging.....with this inspirational thread, perhaps I'll have to do more than make the engine
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It has been a few years since a post was on this thread. I posted on the 19th Century Machine Shop diorama page that John had recently passed.
I was absolutely floored when I got an email from John's wife, Hazel, that John had left this diorama of the Stuart Beam Engine to me, with the wish that I become the custodian of it.
I went to visit with Hazel today and brought the diorama home. Now I just have to figure out all the wee tricks he has built into this, and figure out the electrical system he has in it, and try to make it work.
I know, at one point, he had a hand crank system on it, so I need to make a crank, as the original has not been found. I need to find were the crank was attached. I will be re reading the thread to find out all the wee secrets.
Tom
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Con gratulations with a fantastik gift from John :praise2:
I'm sure he feldt that you would do it Justice and appreciere it too.
Shame about the missing handle - but at least it's a very minor detail, that you should be able to replicate or at least use a socket wrench.
Per
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Thanks Per. I had a lovely visit with John's wife and we shared a lot of good memories.
I have had a quick inspection and given the diorama the once over. If I want the engine itself to be electrically powered, there is a lot to do. The whole friction drive section was taken out for some reason, so it would have to be totally replaced. I no longer have any machine tools of any kind, so the engine will be run on air power only. I will do some testing of that next week, but for now I will just do a little dusting, and sit and admire John's handiwork. Perhaps I could borrow some of Chris's shop elves to get into the wee spaces.
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Thanks Per. I had a lovely visit with John's wife and we shared a lot of good memories.
I have had a quick inspection and given the diorama the once over. If I want the engine itself to be electrically powered, there is a lot to do. The whole friction drive section was taken out for some reason, so it would have to be totally replaced. I no longer have any machine tools of any kind, so the engine will be run on air power only. I will do some testing of that next week, but for now I will just do a little dusting, and sit and admire John's handiwork. Perhaps I could borrow some of Chris's shop elves to get into the wee spaces.
Its great that the model is going to a good home and will be preserved. A box of shop elves are on the way (have plenty of cookies ready, I sent it slowest parcel post... :Lol: )
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Thanks Chris ... I will get right on the cookies!
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Its great that the model is going to a good home and will be preserved.
Yes, absolutely. A stunning diorama and wonderful model - so good that it is going to someone who will enjoy it and look after it.
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I am fairly new to the forum and this is the first time that I have looked through this thread. That has to be the nicest Stuart Beam engine that I have seen. He seems to have unlocked the model’s potential. Beautiful workmanship and creativity. He was a real artist.
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Thank You for the lovely comments. They would have meant a lot to John.
Your beam engine is coming along well and is going to be a good'n as well.
Tom