Model Engine Maker

Help! => Tooling Review => Topic started by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 02:04:17 PM

Title: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 02:04:17 PM
A Sticky Tale

How many times has this happened to you? It’s happened to all of us.

We’ve got a bone fragment to be sliced very thinly for microscopic analysis or a sample to be shaved precisely for your Electron Microscope.

But, how do you hold those pesky samples?

It’s always useful to look at some applications in other fields to see if they might be useful for our engines. Sometimes, a small part is “unholdable” except by some adhesive. I admit, I’m a glue-aholic. I love VHB tape, Super Glue, all varieties of Loctite and chewing gum.

Last week I was watching Tom Lipton’s weekly offering on YouTube when he showed an adhesive used in laboratories, silicon chip fabrication and other tech areas. He attached a penny to a round blank, chucked it up in the lathe and proceeded to face it down to almost nothing.

The stuff is called “Crystalbond 509.” There are other formulations, but the 509 is the strongest.

Here’s my recreation of Tom’s experiment.

Here it is in person. Hard as glass at room temp.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-1.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-1.jpg.html)

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-2.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-2.jpg.html)

After chipping off some small chunks.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-3.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-3.jpg.html)

A piece of 6061 on a hotplate with a few chips on top

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-4.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-4.jpg.html)

When the aluminum reaches 250º F., the Crystalbond melts.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-5.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-5.jpg.html)

A penny.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-6.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-6.jpg.html)

Pressed into the melted Crystalbond. The instructions suggest building up a fillet around the edge. I had enough CB that it formed a fillet.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-7.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-7.jpg.html)

Next, the instructions specify a 20 to 30 minute cool down.

Then, mounted on the lathe.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-8.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-8.jpg.html)

A light facing cut. Carbide insert; 1000 RPM.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-9.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-9.jpg.html)

There was no indication of movement or loosening so I went for a .020 cut.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-10.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-10.jpg.html)

After a few face cuts and the copper cladding was gone, it became difficult to tell if I was cutting the penny or had gone into the aluminum. I stopped.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-11.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-11.jpg.html)

A quick hit with a heat gun and the CB melted and a cleanup in Acetone (recommended solvent) removed any traces.

I could have gone thinner as there was no movement of the part.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/sshire/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-12.jpg) (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/sshire/media/Crystalbond/Crystalbond-12.jpg.html)

I can also see this for milling thin parts, etc.
This has earned a place in my adhesive drawer.
And yes, I've tried shellac. Not even in the same league.

A search for Crystalbond 509 should turn up multiple vendors.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: kvom on February 21, 2015, 02:09:37 PM
Great report Stan.  I've tried a number of adhesives for milling thin materials with limited success, so I'll give this a try.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: vcutajar on February 21, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
I like.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: b.lindsey on February 21, 2015, 02:34:08 PM
Looks like great stuff Stan, thanks for the review.

Bill
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: mklotz on February 21, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
Amazon has it...

http://www.amazon.com/Crystalbond-509-1-Stick-90g/dp/B00K33F1WQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424529929&sr=8-1&keywords=Crystalbond+509

$28 + $9.50 shipping for 90 gm
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 03:00:47 PM
Thanks, Marv
Based on what I've used, 90gm is a lifetime supply
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: philjoe5 on February 21, 2015, 04:11:25 PM
Stan, that's great information.  I've tried glues, double sided tape etc with variable success but this looks like a real winner.

Once the government discovers this, they'll hire thousands of lathe operators to reduce pennies to a thickness of 0.010" so that their metal content reflects their real value. :Lol:

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: mklotz on February 21, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
Note to self:  never decide anything with Stan by flipping a coin.

[Shaving two coins to half thickness and gluing head-to-head or tail-to-tail is the classic way to make two-headed coins.]
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 05:44:46 PM
I think Tom Lipton mentioned that on his demo. Worth a look
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: mklotz on February 21, 2015, 05:54:40 PM
I'm told (never tried it) that by drilling minute holes in the edge of a penny and immersing it in acid one can dissolve out the zinc core leaving the paper thin copper jacket, thus making the penny even more worthless than it was originally.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 05:58:50 PM
Now there's a project for your free time.

I was thinking of repeating the "penny on a lathe" to see if I could leave just the face relief. Like lace.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: philjoe5 on February 21, 2015, 09:36:36 PM
Quote
I was thinking of repeating the "penny on a lathe"

Do that Stan and you'll have given us your 2 cents worth :Jester:

Cheers,
Phil
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: Will_D on February 21, 2015, 10:22:33 PM
Lets take out the Magic:

Crystal Bond 'appears' to be a normal thermoplastic adhesive. It may have a high shear strength but so do other non thermo-plastic adhesives like CA or Expoxy. Both CA and Expoxy can be "debonded" by the application of heat or the correct solvent!
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 21, 2015, 10:59:19 PM
Agree, but...
Epoxy is not a viable option. Too difficult to release and remove. I've had marginal success with CA. I think the advantage with CB is that an uneven surface (like the penny) is fully supported.
I'm sure that this isn't the only thing that will work here. Just one more option.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: Dave Otto on February 22, 2015, 01:23:17 AM
Thanks for the tip Stan.

I remember reading about the shellac chucks but this seems much easier; I'm going to have this give this a try. I can see many uses for this on the CNC mill.

Dave
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: gldavison on February 22, 2015, 02:07:14 AM
Darn pricey stuff. How big is that 90g stick.


I am wondering if a hot wire will cut thin slices of this stuff. Seams is should. I would think this would make for less waste.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 22, 2015, 02:23:28 AM
About 1" in diameter by 8".
I put it in a plastic bag on tapped on the end to break off some tiny chunks which will live in the bag with the stick. The pieces I used were about the size of a grain of rice. The 90gm should last me for years.
It's about the cost of a decent end mill.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: PStechPaul on February 22, 2015, 03:15:28 AM
Is it also reusable by chipping or melting it off the workpiece and work holder in the chuck? Seems like some good stuff!
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: sshire on February 22, 2015, 04:06:32 AM
i did that, Paul.
When I removed the penny with heat, the CB , after cooling, chipped off the aluminum. I threw it in the bag.
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: krv3000 on August 01, 2015, 08:47:38 PM
ooo brill
Title: Re: Magic Sticky Stuff
Post by: Ian S C on September 02, 2015, 01:15:14 PM
A bit OT, when I got my new lathe, I took two pennies (NZ, same size as old UK), put them in the 3 jaw chuck and faced the tails side off each of them, then sweated them together.
Ian S C ::)
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal