This engine has captured me. :pinkelephant:
Thanks Achim.It seems there is some wiring also. I would suppose a small e-motor to run the engine by a friction roller ?
Does anyone know what the brass bit is underneath (seen from behind)? A lubricator? But it seems to have a handwheel (seen from the front).
send her out
The included chart shows for a given diameter there is one thread pitch.
Look again Zee, 1/4" and above you can get two pitches 40 and 32 tpi.
We also sometimes use 26tpi just to confuse things more this is Brass or cycle thread but can be used on larger fittings.
But don't confuse 26 tpi brass with 26 tpi cycle
Nice to see that you have started on the Monitor. I have saved the files but have not printed them yet.I did a soft-soldered joint like that on a Hercules steam crane. The first few runs were OK but eventually the steam temperature melted the solder, and the steam pressure blew it all out of the joint. I ended up making new parts and silver-soldering them together.
When I come to that part most probably it will be a soft soldered job like I did on the Corliss.
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10009/CORLISS200360.jpg)
Vince
Bill - my luck held out. ;D
Jason - thanks. Well I think that confirms your thinking Dave.
1) The chamfer. I didn't see a dimension on the drawing. The drawing looked like 45 degree (90) but without knowing about the olive/nipple I didn't know why. I'd used what I believe to be an 82 degree (41 degree slope) but can remake the part (I have to make another anyway. The plan calls for two.)....Actually, I think I can simply run the center drill in to correct.
You can use what taper you have or just recut with the centre drill
3) What is the thread pitch on the inlet/outlet of those valves?
They are 1/4" x 40 both ends
4) Just making sure - CSK is countersink right?
Yep
5) 'zeenipple' :lolb:
I'm saying nothing :-X
For external threading - what should the rod be turned down to before using the die? I thought there was a formula but can't find it.
Turning to 5/16 for a 5/16 die did not go well. I had to shave a few thou off.
Now it could be that my measurement was off or that the die needs adjusting.
Which brings up another...how does one go about adjusting a die?
5/16" thread should go straight onto 5/16" bar, did you open te die up a little
And another thing, don't forget to slip the nuts onto the pipe before you solder on the nipples
I see you are still learning Alibre
Not me. I'm using CubifyDesign. The drawing was from Jason. (Is that what you were referring to?)
Have you considered drawing a partial cross section of the part and then revolving it?
Yes. I've done that for several parts.
BTW did you understand the dimensions :LittleDevil:
Thought I did. But your emoticon has me worried :-\
PS your Cubify is no good to us
Well gee. That's too bad. ;D
I know you can understand imperial ;)
Sorry Zee I missed it is Jason that has not progressed to rotating things :-X
Jo
:lolb:
Usual way is to make your nut first as you can't adjust the tap and then cut the male thread to suit
You will be pleased to know that I did revolve my balls
Personally I think it's too thick.
As for chamfer...I was originally going for double chamfer. I simply think it looks better and more usual.
The dimensions for this nut was 1/4" across flats (6.35mm - slightly larger than Jo's chart) and 3/32" length (2.38mm - slightly smaller than Jo's chart).
Personally I think it's too thick.
Oh...Jo...what is 'nut allowance'? Is that the amount of stud needed? i.e. the length of the nut plus some amount that the stud sticks past the nut?
Anniversary and now back out. Yeah, we're stupid
What material do you use for studs? And, for this model, any reason not to make nuts from brass or aluminum? (I'm favoring brass but want to draw it up and see if the color contrast is pleasing.)
I still wonder why the imperial plans call out BMS while the metric calls out aluminum.
Dave - thanks very much. It was really worthwhile to revisit that thread!
I'm still confused though on how you put the bevel on. Angle the compound? How do you calculate the distance (or depth of cut)?
I have just enough aluminum for the frame and no steel so if things go awry...
Swear three times if it goes wrong!
One thing to watch for in aluminum is sometimes you'll get a bit of metal sticking to the lead edge of the bit, especially without enough lube, which can cause the noise and heat since rather than the steel cutter edge you've got dull aluminum for the edge. Stopping and clearing that off will get it cutting clean again.
One thing I want to warn you about the use of WD40 is that it is highly flammable, so use it with caution.
You are really on a roll
Lots of pent up shop time you have been waiting to exercise
We need an emoticon of wiping your brow and saying 'whew'.
Or is it 'phew'?
Zee can I ask a question regarding cutting the slot. Did you take a datum off the sides or are you just relying on the marks you placed around before chain drilling? The reason I asked is because you have to know where your mill is locating itself to cut the slot accurately. Looking good buddy and I am just asking mind you......... :cheers:
BTW, pay attention to the ZR (Zee Ratio). Has anyone noticed that anytime Zee does a build, there are generally 2 pages in the post for every completed part? :lolb:
BTW, pay attention to the ZR (Zee Ratio). Has anyone noticed that anytime Zee does a build, there are generally 2 pages in the post for every completed part? :lolb:
He is way behind on the number of posts stakes
Perhaps re: Zee ratio...but what would we do without our color commentator :) Keep at it Zeepster, when you aren't around you are surely missed.
Bill
I'll try to email you some peanuts as a victory celebration
But I've been called to dinner.
Russian Vegetable Pie! :pinkelephant:
One of my favorites and she knows it's an easy way to get me to stop what I'm doing.
She has several tricks like that. :naughty: Fooey.
Delicious. Well worth the fun in a day or two due to the cabbage.
oh God , I'm starting to sound like you
Russian Vegetable Pie!How's the cabbage situation?
Delicious. Well worth the fun in a day or two due to the cabbage.
Visit nearby, well-equipped MEMer with workpiece taped to bottle of fine Scottish produce?
But, remember that I was a software engineer, this is a hardware problem!
If you take my place at the Saturday night dinner,
Thanks crueby. If I have you right, it seems you're talking about my second picture. I just didn't show the clamping. Right? (P.S. I did 6 axis robot controllers for a while. Now I design banknote validators. Yep...if any of you go to a casino or use kiosks...I could be the one taking your money. ;D )
(P.S. I did 6 axis robot controllers for a while. Now I design banknote validators. Yep...if any of you go to a casino or use kiosks...I could be the one taking your money. ;D )So you are the one to talk to about getting them to take my fake bills....
[EDIT:] After posting this I'm thinking it would have been better to put the one angle block on the far side. I only did climb cuts and all the force is towards the back.
[EDIT:] After posting this I'm thinking it would have been better to put the one angle block on the far side. I only did climb cuts and all the force is towards the back.
Zee you need to be super careful doing climb cuts with slitting saws - it usually ends in tears. I think I'm right in saying you should really only do conventional cuts with slitting saws particularly if your mill has any backlash in the feed screws.
Simon.
I can't help wondering what Verdi (or, better yet, Wagner) could have done with those corn-saturated lyrics.
I recognize it, but yes that still needs some work Zee :lolb:
Wow. Too much time sniffing the cutting oil... :stickpoke:
Yeah, I would go for the food too!! And where's the proof of the spacers...no pics and it ain't happened
...do I hear some music in the background??
Just trying to keep you honest!
I do have one. I think I've used it once. But then I haven't done a whole lot of machining.
Not sure how it would have helped here though.
I needed to turn down (basically just take off the crud) over about 3" on a 4" piece of rod.
Good reminder.
Steady rest comes in handy when boring or facing off the end of a long bar that is too large a diameter to fit through headstock bore. You may need it on the cylinders.
Don't ever change!!
Some of you are looking up "Oil Can Harry" and "Humphrey the Bear" aren't you?Wasn't he the brother of Howard The Duck? Third cousin of Charlie The Tuna.
Don't admit it.
the description of you on Cruebys' thread was meant to be complimentary
Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
Cletus
Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
Cletus
Looks like the storm has been getting to some of our "Society members" they been smelling the cork and nipping of the wine. :lolb: Mighty Mouse, Bugs Bunny, Humprey the Bear come on guys your telling your age........... :old: Hell I use to love watching Mighty Mouse.......... :lolb:Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
Cletus
Build some fans - we can be his 'Fan Club'.... :Jester:
Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
CletusLooks like the storm has been getting to some of our "Society members" they been smelling the cork and nipping of the wine. :lolb: Mighty Mouse, Bugs Bunny, Humprey the Bear come on guys your telling your age........... :old: Hell I use to love watching Mighty Mouse.......... :lolb:Now that's devotion, well that's one term for it :mischief: :censored:. You might as well add Stan, Don, Marv, and a couple of more and we can form a "Society" :lolb:
Cletus
Build some fans - we can be his 'Fan Club'.... :Jester:
Keep it coming.......... :lolb:
Don
Admit it - you watched Mickey mouse when he was still in black and white... Projected by candles...Yep! Black and white on an old Admiral TV. Actually it was the only TV I knew before leaving home. I was 10 years old before we owned one. Radio was my favorite listening.
Zee - bearings look good! Have you tried assembling them in the frames to see if it all lines up? When I got to that stage used a longer bar in place of the crankshaft (which was not made yet). Pass that and its time for your happy dance dive into a snowbank!
I remember when we got UHF. And you all remember the rabbit ears and tin foil.
Did I hear somebody is going to do a happy dance???
QuoteI remember when we got UHF. And you all remember the rabbit ears and tin foil.Tinfoil was to make your hat, not the antenna!
As it turns out, my table belt sander is long enough for the frames. It would be good to easily knock the crud off.
Looks good Zee and your making headway but I'm afraid all that snow will slow you down some.
Should have some updates on mine tomorrow
ZeeThose pictures are probably mine. I agree that it's not the best way to hold a round shank boring bar, but it worked OK. My lathe is a little larger than Zee's - I have a 9x20.
Been following along with your adventures...
One thing that strikes me from the last batch of pictures is the tool holder you have the boring bar in.
Can't quite tell from the angle of the picture, but does that tool holder have a groove along the bottom for the shank of the boring
bar to ride in? If not, with only two off-center screws holding it on a flat surface, it may well be moving around on you.
Cheers, Joe
I got the same A2Z QCTP and yes they have a habit of slipping. I made a round flat steel insert for the inside bottom. The swivel top has only a small surface to lock it with the bottom, this is aluminum to aluminum and slips and wares. Hasn't slipped since my insert.
I think zee is using an A2Z qctp, I have same one, had to modify it to keep it from twisting during cutoff or boring operations on my sherline. Zee, make a pen line at its base, when things change see if toolpost turned slightly. Drove me nuts till I figured out a fix for it.
I think zee is using an A2Z qctp, I have same one, had to modify it to keep it from twisting during cutoff or boring operations on my sherline.
I got the same A2Z QCTP and yes they have a habit of slipping. I made a round flat steel insert for the inside bottom. The swivel top has only a small surface to lock it with the bottom, this is aluminum to aluminum and slips and wares. Hasn't slipped since my insert.
Not sure how you are getting swarf in your shorts; but if you pick up and move shop is it going to help solve this?Pics of shop, not the swarf! :o
I guess you could just deliver the wine up stairs when required and tell the ladies to say out of my shop! :lolb: Well maybe not.
If you do move we would like to see some nice pictures.
Dave
On mine I added an aluminum plate to the bottom, out the side, with a slot to bolt through into the t slot. Could also put a horizontal slot for a hold down clip. Quick and dirty fix is to put a thin sheet of wet or dry paper underneath the post to give it some grip to the table. I asked a2z about it once, they said to put a sheet of notepaper under it. Does help, but crappy design work!
I got the same A2Z QCTP and yes they have a habit of slipping. I made a round flat steel insert for the inside bottom. The swivel top has only a small surface to lock it with the bottom, this is aluminum to aluminum and slips and wares. Hasn't slipped since my insert.Don...what do you mean by 'round flat steel insert for the inside bottom?
Zee I will take it apart and post some photos for you tomorrow. Did you enjoy your hot wings?
For the plugs to turn the outside - if they have a slight taper, you can use the tailstock to put some pressure on, and basically you are turning between centers. Or drill/tap the holes for the end caps, and use a bolt in the head end for a driving point. Just take light cuts so you are not putting a lot of pressure on it. Assume you are turning the outside down since the cylinder stock was oversized to what the plan calls for? If so, on next engine turn that down first on longer stock, one end in chuck, other on live center, then cut the cylinder blanks from that piece.
If so, on next engine turn that down first on longer stock, one end in chuck, other on live center, then cut the cylinder blanks from that piece.
Lost me on that, if the stock is already a little smaller than the plan calls for, why do you need to turn it down more? The bore is centered, the flats come in from the side. What is thete to turn?
If so, on next engine turn that down first on longer stock, one end in chuck, other on live center, then cut the cylinder blanks from that piece.
Perhaps Zee could convert this excellent advice into a mantra for entry into his shop notebook. Something like...
NEVER REMOVE A PART FROM ITS PARENT STOCK UNTIL ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.
Hmm, where have I heard that before?
Zee - back on the A2Z toolpost moving issue - a friend of mine had a simaler problem on his, saw what I had done, and did a variant on it - just did a single arc rather than the 4 that I did, is working very well for him. Below is a picture of his.
Lost me on that, if the stock is already a little smaller than the plan calls for, why do you need to turn it down more? The bore is centered, the flats come in from the side. What is thete to turn?
The outside of the cylinder is unfinished. I just want to turn it a tad to clean it up. Whether I did it first or not...the result is the same.
Right or wrong...I thought doing it this way (using the bore to center) would improve my chance of keeping the outside parallel to the inside.
Zee - back on the A2Z toolpost moving issue - a friend of mine had a simaler problem on his, saw what I had done, and did a variant on it - just did a single arc rather than the 4 that I did, is working very well for him. Below is a picture of his.
I think I'm missing something. Wouldn't the toolpost rotate on that plate?
That should be ignored by an optimizing compiler. :atcomputer:
One time saw a subroutine called fakeStuffHack()...That should be ignored by an optimizing compiler. :atcomputer:
It was. Otherwise I would have caught it when I wrote it. :Lol:
You guys lost me about 6 posts ago; but that's not to hard. :lolb:
double makeBloat[MAXINT][MAXINT]; // Make program look really big!
Zee, forget the marine engine and just build a steam powered computer!
What color is the sky in YOUR world? Mine is plaid.Zee, forget the marine engine and just build a steam powered computer!
I make good parts and bad parts. Very binary.
Not quite true...
I make good parts, decent parts, and bad parts. So I'm a floating output. :lolb:
I have no hysteresis. My folks didn't know about Schottky. :lolb:
Have I lost some more of you? Well welcome to my world when reading about your fantastic models.
I have no hysteresis.
You guys lost me about 6 posts ago; but that's not to hard. :lolb:It happens with these programmers Dave, they were lost 6 posts ago also. It's called a "bug" or "glitch".
Dave
Sometimes we fall into an infinite loop.More like embedded system fault, so corrective action is needed to get you to a stable state .
Without a watchdog...we're toast.
I've missed a couple days in keeping up with the forum and I'm suddenly 5 pages behind. I read them all and you've bored one hole. That's a pretty impressive feat!
Zee, your thread takes the cake (or maybe the cookie). I've missed a couple days in keeping up with the forum and I'm suddenly 5 pages behind. I read them all and you've bored one hole.
He can't -- no hysteresis.I have no hysteresis.
I'm surprised. I think you're absolutely hysterical. Oh, wait...
Zee, your thread takes the cake (or maybe the cookie). I've missed a couple days in keeping up with the forum and I'm suddenly 5 pages behind. I read them all and you've bored one hole.
... and a dozen people.
careful about marring the finish on the cover plate.
When the cover plate was being turned originally, that was the time to drill the piston rod holes since you know it would be concentric to the part you were turning.
Light cuts.
Happy to take warnings with this.
Light cuts.Do you have enough material for two new cylinders and covers?
Happy to take warnings with this.
Also, how do you propose to "turn both covers and cylinder as one" if one of the covers is held in the chuck?
Light cuts.
Happy to take warnings with this.
Do you have enough material for two new cylinders and covers?
Also, how do you propose to "turn both covers and cylinder as one" if one of the covers is held in the chuck?
It must be one of thebestlongest threads with the fewest made parts and most silly banter around!!
Drill the gland nut for the piston rod whilst it is screwed in the cylinder head.I have a problem with that. If the Setup is not exactly true when you screw the gland nut back in it could end up giving a offset to the cylinder cover. This could double the offset by the cover amount and gland amount of error depending where the nut sits in the cover.
Vince
Carl doesn't the cylinder cover have a register to keep it aligned with the cylinder bore? I don't have the plans in front of me to check.Yes at the stage he's at, I do agree that Chris's method would be his best option.
Yes Don that method would be asking for trouble and that's why I would prefer the method Chris used.
Vince
Carl doesn't the cylinder cover have a register to keep it aligned with the cylinder bore?
Yes at the stage he's at, I do agree that Chris's method would be his best option.
The guy you been calling crueby........
Chris = Creuby
Can't you use the same method that Chris used?
Ok Zee, this is how I would of made the cylinder cover. Chuck up a parent stock in the lathe, measure the thickness of cover after facing the stock, add some for facing later and mark with cutoff. Face front of cover or profile it to my liking. Drill the smallest diameter which is the shaft size to a depth pass the cutoff point. Drill for the gland nut and tap. Start cutting the back side of the cover pass the cutoff point so a mic can fit. Start cutting flange diameter slowly till it mic's to you bore diameter. Cutoff from parent stock.......turn around in Chuck and face off.
If you measured the bore properly to flange should fit nice and snug. You could also make you gland nut first and the drill out to cylinder shaft size. This would put it as true as I could get it.
If you have a problem with overhang in lathe cut enough to Chuck and make one cylinder cover at a time. Some waste yes but you get to do it in one sitting....
One big thing to keep in mid - the gland nut is there to compress the packing (or hold the o ring in place, depending which you use), it in itself doesn't have to be a tight fit on the piston rod. I like to have it bored a bit oversize to make sure it does Not rub on the piston rod.
Can't help but feel some people may get impatient with me. Sorry if that's the case.No, no buddy were are with you through this learning process, if we make you feel like that were are not doing something right. I do apologize for making you feel like we're are impatient with you, as that is not my intentions. Just trying to get you to think things through. I was once told when I was younger my hands were faster then my mind and it struck a nerve. I try real hard to reason things out before making the move by hand. And it has payed off in the long run and the teacher that told me this was one of the best teachers I ever had. Don't ever feel like anyone is impatient with you, it would mean we a not helping or teaching you.
The flange is the thin part of the cover. :old:
Can't help but feel some people may get impatient with me. Sorry if that's the case.No, no buddy were are with you through this learning process, if we make you feel like that were are not doing something right. I do apologize for making you feel like we're are impatient with you, as that is not my intentions. Just trying to get you to think things through. I was once told when I was younger my hands were faster then my mind and it struck a nerve. I try real hard to reason things out before making the move by hand. And it has payed off in the long run and the teacher that told me this was one of the best teachers I ever had. Don't ever feel like anyone is impatient with you, it would mean we a not helping or teaching you.
Don
Pretty soon Marv is going to jump in and talk (yell) to me about planning and thinking things through.
Re: Monitor Steam Engine
« Reply #375 on: Today at 03:45:26 PM »
Quote
Quote from: zeeprogrammer on January 31, 2016, 10:10:28 PM
Pretty soon Marv is going to jump in and talk (yell) to me about planning and thinking things through.
Would it make a difference if I did?
Pretty soon Marv is going to jump in and talk (yell) to me about planning and thinking things through.Would it make a difference if I did?
Off to see Chris.
Hope he likes my cookies.
Hey Zee, don't worry about the cookies, I got lots!Off to see Chris.
Hope he likes my cookies.
As I did. But I forgot the cookies. (Well I didn't forget...I don't have any! :cussing: )
So I looked/studied/investigated his approach.
I see that when he did (what I call the outer hub) he drilled/reamed for the piston rod and also did the drilling/threading for the gland.
I don't see the work done for the (what I call the inner hub but is now known to be as the flange). i.e. the part of the part that acts as a register to the cylinder's bore.
What am I missing?
I'm thinking I'm good to go to make the flange and drill/ream the piston rod hole. Leaving the gland to figure out (for which I have some Marv non-approved ideas).
Chris...I wish I could send you some real cookies...but T won't make them again until Christmas.
I left the inner hub a touch on the small side. No matter what, there will be some errors (tolerances in enginerspeak!) In the parts. So I leave the inner hub small and use the piston and rod find thier own center for the assembly, and tighten the hub bolts to hold it in place.
Even if you drill the gland nut as tightened perfectly, how good were the threads aligned in each piece? When the nut is a partial turn farther out with packing or o ring in place, how is it aligned then? Wont be same. Leave play in key places to let you adjust fit as assembled. Get it hot with steam, and prts too tight, it will bind up. Look at the SR71, it leaks like a puppy when on the ground
I'd expect no less, 14 pages of indecision for a perfectly completed part.
Oh! Did you make some progress Zee? I hardly notice with all the banter we been doing.
Nice! Keep the parts coming
and you can have another hopping stinkie, or whatever you call it...!
Nice work on the cylinder and heads Zee. The rhyming can use a little work though :) Fortunately, we aren't a poetry forum...preferring (so it seems) cookies, scottish produce, curry dishes, chicken livers, and the occasional bit of metalworking :stir:
Bill
Nice work on the cylinder and heads Zee. The rhyming can use a little work though :) Fortunately, we aren't a poetry forum...preferring (so it seems) cookies, scottish produce, curry dishes, chicken livers, and the occasional bit of metalworking :stir:
Bill
That's 'stinking hoppie'. A 'hopping stinkie' is when I run out of vodka and :rant:
The rhyming can use a little work though :)
Where are those child actors now? :Jester: :Jester: :Jester:
I was wondering, with this being the last season of the Downtown, are you anticipating any more shop time after the finally?
after the finally?
Bless yo heart, you have got a bad dose of it now don't ya. I know the cure, :old::lolb: are you kidding? Mickie and I watch it every week there is no cure. :facepalm: It's quality time they call it......, :slap:
Cletus
hm...rod that goes in the side to help turn the die,
Often called "tommy bar(s)"
and I want to knurl the body.
I haven't checked if my knurler will go to that size.
If you're grasping it when it grabs, you might not be so enthused about knurling.
I realized the other night that I don't have a die holder for the 1/2-40. It's 1 1/2" diameter and my die holder takes 13/16 or 1". So I sacrificed the spare stock I had in case a cylinder went bad (which could still happen)...
Better keep the 2 cylinders out of the sun, dont want them to go bad....
To your point, I can always knurl later if I think it would help.
Yup must be a geezer. Took the 32nd degree comment from other thread to confuse the others here! :stickpoke::lolb: :lolb:
On my die holders, I made holes for the tommy bars (sounds like someplace a cat would drink) every 45 degrees around so I could hold the chuck and turn the die for finer control.
Is the tommy bar short enough to not hit the lathe bed? Are there (at least) two tommy bar holes?The tommy bar is the same one that came with my purchased die holder. It won't be any longer since the inner diameter is the same as the original holder.
Are the screws located so as to correspond with the (presumed) dimples in the die edge? Will they close the (presumed split) die when tightened? Is there a screw positioned so as to force the die open if that is required?
If you do decide to knurl it, how are you going to hold it now that it's removed from its parent stock? Did you think about that?
I guess it's time to start volume four of the list. :-)
When you're at the nadir, the only direction is up.
Zee, you could have used co-ordinates to dril the holes and been able to clamp the cylinder to the mill table.
Regarding tommy bars I would remove them from teh die holder if you are threading under power unless you don't like your right thumb, also if its a double ended holder make sure the unused screws are not sticking out.
Hi Zee, yes that has happen to mine as well. It gets loose and you don't notice it and it messes up the threads. Just drill a hole close to it and tap it to fit the set screw or you could tap it larger and make a new handle.
I would thread it, the tommy bar would work but not that well on this. I made another bar with bigger threads on mine. Yea stainless is fine, all you need is something to hold the bit.Hi Zee, yes that has happen to mine as well. It gets loose and you don't notice it and it messes up the threads. Just drill a hole close to it and tap it to fit the set screw or you could tap it larger and make a new handle.
Thanks Don. I hadn't thought about a hole near it.
Say...is there any real reason for it to be threaded? Could it be used with a (there it is again) tommy bar?
I just saw that the threads are not 'starting' to strip. They ARE stripped. I can easily pull the handle out without rotating. Poo.
By the way...I asked earlier about using stainless steel bearing shaft instead of drill rod to make those drill bit holders for a collet. Thoughts?
For small threads, I do like Zee mentions, hold the tommy bar in one hole on the die holder, and clamp/release the headstock with the other hand.
For small threads, I do like Zee mentions, hold the tommy bar in one hole on the die holder, and clamp/release the headstock with the other hand.
? What do you mean clamp/release the headstock? I just turn it. (The chuck.)
Let's say I have some rod in the chuck that I'm going to thread.
Die holder goes onto the tailstock.
Start threading...
Whether I turn the die holder or the chuck...what's the difference?
Now I have a mini-lathe. I can wrap my hand around the chuck...basically turning it like a die holder.
Hm...I don't even know how to clamp the headstock.
Confused. And it's not even stinking hoppie time.
On my chuck, it is easier (for me at least) to hold the chuck/part in the headstock with left hand (what I meant by 'clamp'), turn the die holder with tommy bar in right hand, then let go with left hand, pull tommy bar back with right hand to starting position, and repeat.
Yes I'm still watching you from the shadows :lolb:
I knurled my die holder and I'm able to run all but the larger threads while holding it by hand. The knurls are not sharp and when I let go and it spins in my hand, it doesn't seem to remove any skin.
I find this tool very useful, may take some adapting for youre lathe but well worth the time
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Spindle_Driving_Handle___Myford_Lathes.html
It works on the same idea as a rawl bolt
Its is just an expanding mandrel with a pin that make it self releasing although thats just a luxury
Thats the advantage of been sinister handed :Lol:
Well worth the effort making one I use it often for threading
When Vati saw me do stuff like that he would mutter something that sounded a lot like, "Schusselig Stümper". Maybe we need a new Post-It - Sei nicht Schusselig".
No you have to remove it before powering up. The self extraction bit is to save having to give it a wee biff to release it
cheers
No you have to remove it before powering up. The self extraction bit is to save having to give it a wee biff to release it
cheers
No you have to remove it before powering up. The self extraction bit is to save having to give it a wee biff to release it
cheers
'A wee biff' - I like that phrase - wanted to do that to the back of coworkers heads sometimes.... and them to me I'm sure!
Oh - and adding to the post earlier about the drill jig - you may be tempted to use one of the existing cylinder caps for the jig, but since the holes in those are larger for bolt clearance, there would be too much error. Unless you have not drilled the caps yet - I forget, am too lazy to look back! - drill one cap with tap-size holes, use it for jig, then go back and drill them out larger for clearance....
Oh - and adding to the post earlier about the drill jig - you may be tempted to use one of the existing cylinder caps for the jig, but since the holes in those are larger for bolt clearance, there would be too much error. Unless you have not drilled the caps yet - I forget, am too lazy to look back! - drill one cap with tap-size holes, use it for jig, then go back and drill them out larger for clearance....
Drill jig? Earlier post? I'm also too lazy to look back.
Haven't drilled the caps yet. Plan was to use the rotary table and just go around with a slightly larger drill. 60 degrees per hole. Should just line up with cylinder holes.
You're scaring me dude. ;D What am I missing?
You mention drilling one cap with tap-size holes and using it for a jig. Why tap-size holes? Aren't they small to take a thread? And what jig?
Okay...I'm stopping right here tonight.
Well...not because of that. Is time for supper and 'stinking hoppies'!!!!!
The earlier post talking about kozos drill jig use, post 247...
Tap size holes, as in holes sized for tapping the cylinder, vs clearance holes in the caps. Go back about 5 posts...
After the S.H. wears off! In between the banter posts was some actual information, I know that is not allowed... :Lol:
Yes, 452. Where the heck did I get 247? Brain to finger connection is loose! :zap:To many left turns and Stinking Hoppies........ :lolb: :lolb:
Yes, 452. Where the heck did I get 247? Brain to finger connection is loose! :zap:To many left turns and Stinking Hoppies........ :lolb: :lolb:
Don :cheers:
:lolb: :lolb:
One has to be real careful on this forum. :ROFL:
The new Shay. The one book I don't have.
Well I wanted it anyway. Whether I need it or not.
The A3 loco book has same jig usage, almost every page starting with 15. For cylinder holes, check page 86. Very handy technique for matching holes.
Seems like reading for me doesn't make things stick. Have to do.
BTW According to your last post in that thread...you're not done. What's up? ;DThe build thread ended with installing oil lines, etc that it was tough to show in pics, all up underneath.
Sounds like you may be remaking one of the cylinders too Zee. Do you have the material left for that? Bummer in any event that it doesn't fit properly, but it happens to us all.
Bill
Sounds like you may be remaking one of the cylinders too Zee. Do you have the material left for that?
Practice makes prefect.
Wait, let me try that again..
Practise make perphect.
I'll keep trying! :ROFL:
Thanks for listening to my blather and for the help!
Thanks for listening to my blather and for the help!
I mean 'reading' my blather.
And you're doing it again. :lolb:
Bluster? Whose?
Can't be mine. I'd have to have something to bluster about. ;D
when you drilled the holes, did you spot drill first
The 1/4 to 1/2 is the size of the tap square Zee. That's a pretty good range but they do make smaller T handles. A quick tap handle is a pair if vise grips if you have a tap guide.
There are two types of t handle tap holders I've seen, the ones likke you show with round collets, other type grip in the square shank end like this one
My preference is the square shank style, fit a wider ranges and dont slip.
INMNSHO, a T-tap wrench without an integral guide pin is worthless.Yep, make it like this one. Just make sure to make the front hole large enough to except a collar that holds the tap. And make different size collars for the different tap shank sizes.
Of course, you could make an insert that would hold a tap for your die holder.
Many are center-drilled at the top of the shank to take a guide center but as soon as the tap bites, the tool will draw away from the center. They're a PIA to use. Get the type with a free-turning sliding pin as the guide.
Remember, the guide pin isn't just to initially align the tap. It serves to resist side pressure as the tap descends into the work. It's the inadvertent side pressure that breaks taps.
Of course, you could make an insert that would hold a tap for your die holder.
I see the idea of a collar (or Marv's insert) that could be used in the die holder. Neat idea.
That just leaves understanding how the die is held in the collar.
Make a square hole?
I see the idea of a collar (or Marv's insert) that could be used in the die holder. Neat idea.
That just leaves understanding how the die is held in the collar.
Make a square hole?
I presume you meant to say how the tap is held in the collar. With a square hole you only need something to keep it from falling out - setscrew or toothpick wedge. The hole walls will take the torque thrust.
My homemade tap wrenches ...
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/tap-holders-26298
use a hole to match the tap diameter to align the tap and a setscrew bearing on the tap square to resist the torque.
Jason's point is well taken. That's why I made the large wrench shown on the right in the URL mentioned above.
ZeeHi Stan, I've seen spiral flute taps but never tried them, thought they were for powered use or something. What is their advantage? Always used straight flute ones, what have I been missing?
I see guys hand guiding taps and cannot imagine doing that. Guessing that decades of practice might work. For me, the T-handle with extended guide rod to insert into a chuck or collet is the only way I've ever tapped on the lathe or mill. That way, I know it's going straight into the hole. I do find that spiral point (for through holes) and spiral flute (for blind holes) taps make the job easier and less of a butt-clenching experience. For anything 2-56 and smaller, I use form taps (Balax are my favorites) which do not create any chips. Tapping fluid (not coolant) is essential.
Marv - those tap holders look great - been looking to find something like that, was not sure how to design one - gonna have to make up a set! Is there something (grub screw in channel?) that keeps the free spinning post on the top end from coming out?
Thanks!
Thanks Jason. Good point.
Thanks Marv. Set screw. And thanks for the link to yourtapstap holders. I remember them.
My notebook mostly has tables and notes. It's time to print images and store them as well.
Thanks Jason. Good point.
Thanks Marv. Set screw. And thanks for the link to yourtapstap holders. I remember them.
My notebook mostly has tables and notes. It's time to print images and store them as well.
Paper is so passe. Do what I do...
Make a bookmark folder for each forum you visit. Bookmark good stuff and reword the bookmark title to something that will tickle your memory when you read it.
Those spring-loaded tap guides eat up a lot of Z axis room. OK on larger machines but not on Sherline-sized equipment or round column mill-drills.
I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.
Certainly not ideal, but years ago when I worked in a tool room/machine shop, I worked with someone who made a little "Tapping Block" to start small taps. It was just a block of steel about 1" thick with different holes drilled in it to clear the O.D. of the taps. It acts as a kind of guide bushing for the tap to start. Hold the block over the work piece, start the tap straight, & let the block guide the O.D. of the tap.
Like I said, not ideal, but easier than trying to start by just "eyeballing" it.
John
Those spring-loaded tap guides eat up a lot of Z axis room. OK on larger machines but not on Sherline-sized equipment or round column mill-drills.
Good point for mills. I was mainly thinking of using it on the lathe. Sorry for my unclarity.I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.
Yep. But I've converted my mill to CNC so the quill won't move on its own. Before that the quill (or tail stock) would freely follow the tap into the work once started. I did find that larger taps would slip in the drill chuck after going in a little ways.
So many options. :-)
Thanks.
Hugh
I don't bother with a sprung guide, can't see whats wrong with one hand on the quill lever and the other turning the tap, also more rigid.
A nut question...On the big engines I've looked at, they beveled the side against the plate, so the corners of the nut would not dig in. On most modern nuts they have gone to bevelling both.
When dealing with nuts that go onto manifolds or stems (i.e. a stem nut)...does one chamfer one side or both sides?
Is it a matter of taste or tradition?
Examples on the Monitor would include the piston and valve glands. Or the nuts used to attach the tubing.
Thanks.
No work on mine either today, been out multiple times clearing the driveway with the latest storm. Sounds like PA got hit too.
Or you could bribe my with some cookies......
We'll, if you're not referring me
Hi Zee,Yeah, both types were used on different locos, its also amazing how many varieties of valve linkages there were on locos over the years. There are some great websites with animations of a lot of them.
As the guys say it probably makes little difference. Would think long term that the aluminum will wear.... But probably not in your lifetime as the guys have said.
The saying for loco's is ........." slide valves wear in"........."piston valves wear out".......make sense? Slide valves get better with time as they basically lap themselves, we're as piston valves lap the bore bigger.
Still following & enjoying
Cheers Kerrin
Rubber bands weren't a great idea to hold the parallels. But they're many years old.
Twice something flew by my head and at first I thought it was a piece of my machine.
Been so long I lost track - did you get the other covers/cylinders all straightened out? Pics?
I usually do the foam thing but I couldn't find my usual stuff.
You may remember...
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/IMG_4495.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/IMG_4495.jpg.html)
I usually do the foam thing but I couldn't find my usual stuff.
You may remember...
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/zeeprogrammer/IMG_4495.jpg) (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/zeeprogrammer/media/IMG_4495.jpg.html)
I try to not remember many of the things you do. That was one of them.
I try to not remember many of the things you do. That was one of them.
Doubt that cookie tastes very good, looks awfully chewy!
I guess chocolate chip Rice Krispie treats wouldn't interest you either then.
No pics of the holes you didn't drill :lolb:
Yeah, it was odd.Be careful you don't lean too far, or the ghost might get you! :o
It just sort of slowed down and stopped.
...
I'm leaning towards the mill.
Have a couple of extra tipsy onions on me
I gotta get some of those type angle blocks, looks like they come in handy.
I gotta get some of those type angle blocks, looks like they come in handy.
Yeah I'd hardly used them. But looking at what the members do for setups is helping me a lot.
Used to be I'd think I was done if I couldn't use my vise.
Great place to learn.
Well 'L' is what I used.Zee use this spread sheet if you haven't already. It gives you the tapping drill size for 75% engagement for each different thread values you enter. Also in the sheet you can find the minor diameter for nuts at any thread engagement percentage you enter. Make sure you get the Rev1 sheet......http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,4655.0.html
That would imply the die was too tight.
But I'm not convinced.
Question: As I mentioned, one reference for 5/16-32 was 9/32. But the reference for 5/16-40 was 'L' (a slightly larger drill).
Why would a 32 thread be different from a 40 thread for the tapping drill?
In the one reference...9/32 was specified for aluminum and 'L' for steel. The 2nd reference didn't distinguish...it just said 'L'.
I'm thinking I should have used 9/32...but I don't know if that is/was the problem.
[EDIT] I would think the tables provide the information the calculation would do. As in this case...it seems too. That is, 'L'. If that's correct, and is the one I used, then what went wrong?
MATERIAL % DOT
MILD AND UNTREATED STEELS 60-65
HIGH CARBON STEEL 50
HIGH SPEED STEEL 55
STAINLESS STEEL 50
FREE CUTTING STAINLESS STEEL 60
CAST IRON 70-75
WROUGHT ALUMINUM 65
CAST ALUMINUM 75
WROUGHT COPPER 60
FREE CUTTING YELLOW BRASS 70
DRAWN BRASS 65
MANGANESE BRONZE 55
MONEL METAL 55-60
NICKEL SILVER (GERMAN SILVER) 50-60
Question: As I mentioned, one reference for 5/16-32 was 9/32. But the reference for 5/16-40 was 'L' (a slightly larger drill).
Why would a 32 thread be different from a 40 thread for the tapping drill?
Marv, what are the rules of thumb for the DOT percentage? I've got some tables that use different values for brass and steel, is there a set of good numbers to use for the metals we commonly use in the models? From what I've seen the harder ones use a smaller value. Have broken a few taps when using the brass value on stainless.
Thought you only got one hours play time or is T absent
And the drawings have a fillet at the inside corner of the 'L'.
Not that it's necessary but I think it would look better. Just not sure how.
I'm thinking of roughing out with an end mill and then taking a ball end mill to make the fillet.
Not sure if that's right or how it would work and not get bad machining marks.
Unless I get alternatives I'll practice on the part in the waste area.
Besides..it could be worse...I might not even have at least a mini-lathe and mini-mill.
We should feel sad for the soul who wants to machine but doesn't have any machines.
Sees ya.
I often get that finish with ball nose cutters.Always blamed my crappy mill
Operator error ??
No Zee, we wouldn't call you creeper. But then again we wouldn't call you Dave Otto either, looking at the pile up on your mill. But it's good to see the piccys buddy.........
Creeper, creeper, creeper :lolb: :LittleDevil: The devil made me do it Zee.
OK this is an old picture but I just wanted to prove that swarfless machining does not always happen in my shop!
I would hate for you guys to be talking about me behind my back.
OK this is an old picture but I just wanted to prove that swarfless machining does not always happen in my shop!
Thank you Dave! So nyah to you other fellows.
Still...even with all that swarf you're showing...it still looks clean. :)I would hate for you guys to be talking about me behind my back.
Uh...no one can see the PMs going around right? :paranoia:
I would have turned the bearings after boring the pedestals though
Stop with the notes. Make your version. ;D
Certainly don't take notes off me. Other than..."remember not to do that" "remember not to do this" :Lol:
I would have turned the bearings after boring the pedestals though
Didn't think it mattered much here.
The problem was...I thought I could sneak up on the bore dimension for a close fit. I don't know if this is a characteristic of other boring heads but, there was no sneaking up. No way could I adjust for a thou. Soon as I loosened it...things moved several thou. Could not get back to where I was. The dial has at least 5 thou of slop in it and it was difficult to feel where it was last.
Perhaps there's a method I'm ignorant of?
[EDIT] I mean concerning this. There are many methods I'm ignorant of. I'm told this nearly every day.
As with most things, accuracy and features don't come cheap.
Now a real model engineer
OK Chuck
bore on the mill and make the matching part to fit that opening
I give, I'll cut the "Chuck" out :naughty:
Zee what kind of boring head do you have?
On my smaller head, a Criterion; I never loosen it. I keep it snugged up just tight enough that I can still move it with an Allen wrench in the dial. And like any slide with a screw you need to take the back lash out of it. I never lock it down after dialing in the next cut; this may now be possible to do with your set up but I though that I would mention it. Wearing the Opti-Visor also helps when adjusting the next cut. :old:
i learned to use the two wrench simultaneusly, by that I mean the wrench in the dial and the wrench in the middle screw. I grip the screw wrench tightly in my fist and take out the back lash and hold it as I loosen the slide screw. That lets me feel when the slide screw releases its pressure enough and then turn the dial screw by just squeezing my fist.
Just saw your post Marv. No markings on mine or the packaging. But I believe China.
I'm okay with China. Sometimes good...sometimes not so good. Reminds me a lot of the old days when Japanese quality was made fun of. We'll see if Chinese quality improves with time.
What I find amazing is the quality of surgical tools coming out of Pakistan. Hemostats with smooth box joints, regular serrations and a nice smooth finish. Scalpel handles that actually work with standard blades and also have a nice finish. Beautiful tweezers, etc.. If the Pakistanis can manage it, why can't the Indians do the same?
To get a bit extra I sometimes simply remove the jaws :embarassed:
A tip from Bodge It And Scarper Inc
cheers
Thanks Chris.
Another question for you...
Plan uses a cylinder 2.25" diameter (1.125 radius).
This particular flat is cut 1" from center. That is, I'm supposed to take off 0.125".
But my cylinder is 2.20" diameter (1.10 radius)
Do I still take 0.125 off? Or should it be 0.10?
Does it really matter?
Verticalness, verticality, verticalityisityness, whatever, you get the idea! Check the tram. :Lol:
Not supposed to ferment the milk?! :cheers:Verticalness, verticality, verticalityisityness, whatever, you get the idea! Check the tram. :Lol:
You've either got some secret ingredient in those cookies...or you're not drinking milk with them. :lolb:
Given that the conn rod will take up some vertical misalignment and the slot in the valve arm will too, then being within a tenth or so wont matter much. You can always adjust the arm hieghts half a smidge if needed.
If the height of the cylinder bore's center changes relative to the parts that are connected to the piston rod...how much does it matter?
Hope it all continues to go smoothly.Don't bet on it Bill we get one piccy and three pages of banter and now he's getting started on food again. I can understand if he was a coonass like me because all we think about is food, but being a yank :lolb: I just don't get it. Oh! Did somebody say crawfish season ........eating some this week end........ :Love:
Bill
but being a yank
I don't see a lot talked about this...
maybe it will help others and maybe not...
When I do a setup, I take a dry run. That is, I move the cutter around to be sure I can reach everything and don't run into things.
(There's been times I've started milling only to find the holder colliding with a clamp.)
I've gotten a lot out of the thought process you're going through
All would be great if I could just get rid of these hiccups and avoid those darn toe stubs.
Keeping with the perennial OT nature of this thread and Marv's preposition story, I'll provide this:
A female college freshman upon meeting her high-society dorm roommater, asked "Where are you from"? The latter replied, "Where I'm from we don't end sentences with a preposition."
"Let me rephrase that question. Where are you from, asshole"?
Another one joins "the list".
Keeping with the perennial OT nature of this thread
No wonder not many pictures, all those spices are fogging the lens...
I'm sure that you are at the very top of the list Carl. Then again, you could be at the very bottom. Depends on the list.
I'm sure that you are at the very top of the list Carl. Then again, you could be at the very bottom. Depends on the list.
Bottom.
Best place. Easier to work up than to stay at the top.
Once at the top..where do you go?
Is that a bad/poor philosophy?
Enjoying your progress Zee.
Dave
...
The distance between the mounting holes on the cylinder is supposed to 1.188 but is closer to 1.22.
...
Oh yeah, and a fellow who keeps coming up with 'rules' that we need to write down on index cards with crayons.
...
The distance between the mounting holes on the cylinder is supposed to 1.188 but is closer to 1.22.
...
Oh yeah, and a fellow who keeps coming up with 'rules' that we need to write down on index cards with crayons.
A better use of your crayons than using them to mark out hole spacings.
Hertel is a quality tap but you need to use lubricant when tapping. WD40 is just deodorized kerosene so it's fine for aluminum. Using something is far more important than exactly what you use.
Haven't you yet built some small tap holders according to the design shown here...
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/tap-holders-26298
To make things easier you can safely go to 65% depth-of-thread in aluminum. [Probably in almost anything else on a model engine; very few model threads are stressed to the point of stripping.]
So Marv, lets see if I'm understanding this right.
For example: My tap drill size chart shows using a #38 (.1015) drill for the hole for a 5-40 tap. Does that give me a 100% depth-of -thread? Some % other than 100%? Then if I wanted 65% depth-of -thread I'd use a larger drill? Would I just take the called for normal size drill (.1015 in my example here)and increase that size by some percentage? And what percentage might that be?
Also would this work in other materials like brass and steel?
Lots of questions.
IIRC Alum only works with carbon steel taps. I've never had success with HSS taps and alum. Could be me, though.
I'm sure I've said this before but, form taps. (I've been happy with Balax)
Yes, you need a lubricant when tapping anything (perhaps not with Delrin)
Stan,I have to agree on the price Marv, but I bought a Mitutoyo caliper and had it returned for another and when I recieved the replacement it didn't work either. This was right out of the box and I tried to replace both with new batteries with no luck. All they would do is blink. So sent it back and asked for my money back.
Love it. Trouble is, if Starrett sold crayons, they'd cost $20 apiece. Mitutoyo crayons would cost $1 and last three times as long.
Marv...I don't know 'buchstaubiern'. That seems to translate to 'paper jam beers'?
Swapping the 'i' and 'e' gets me 'paper dust Irish'.
Karl (lassen wir richtig buchstaubieren),
Yes, you need to watch what you're doing and move the quill down when the tap wrench is about to escape from the guide pin. I have a tap wrench like yours and find it way too heavy for small taps. For those you need something with low inertia so you don't lose your tactile feel for what the tap is doing. With my small tap holders I can always feel when I've outrun the guide pin.
Jim,
There's a program on my page, DRILL, which will compute tap drill sizes for conventional and form taps as well as other good stuff. But, briefly,
TD = tapdrill size
MD = thread major diameter
P = thread pitch (tpi)
DOT = desired depth of thread expressed as a percentage
then
TD = MD = 0.013*DOT/P
Example: 1/4-20 thread with DOT = 55%
TD = 0.25 - 0.013*55/20 = 0.2143 which implies a #3 drill
Here are some suggested DOTs for various materials
MILD AND UNTREATED STEELS 60-65
HIGH CARBON STEEL 50
HIGH SPEED STEEL 55
STAINLESS STEEL 50
FREE CUTTING STAINLESS STEEL 60
CAST IRON 70-75
WROUGHT ALUMINUM 65
CAST ALUMINUM 75
WROUGHT COPPER 60
FREE CUTTING YELLOW BRASS 70
DRAWN BRASS 65
MANGANESE BRONZE 55
MONEL METAL 55-60
NICKEL SILVER (GERMAN SILVER) 50-60
Stan,
Love it. Trouble is, if Starrett sold crayons, they'd cost $20 apiece. Mitutoyo crayons would cost $1 and last three times as long.
Jim,I didn't know until today that my tapping chart that came with my Sherline equipment was based on a 75% DOT.
My chart shows #38 for 5-40 and #37 for 5-44 for 75% thread in aluminum.
If you use the #37, let me know how it goes.
All in all a good day today! :thinking:
So that begs the question of whether mm bits are sometimes used to bridge the gap between numbered bits or am I tuned into my own "fairytale" here?
If my figures were right, it came out to about .0910. So a #43 @ .0890 was about .020 to small and a #42 @ .0935 was about .015 to big. However, a 2.3 mm @ .0906 was "just right".
Love the crayons - is there a chapter in the Machinists Handbook on proper colors to use for different materials, tap vs clearance drilling, that sort of thing?! :Lol:
Goes with this plaque:
Speaking of drill bits, here's something I'm wondering about: I used Marv's formula to figure the DOT at 65% for a 4-40 tap. If my figures were right, it came out to about .0910. So a #43 @ .0890 was about .020 to small and a #42 @ .0935 was about .015 to big. However, a 2.3 mm @ .0906 was "just right". So that begs the question of whether mm bits are sometimes used to bridge the gap between numbered bits or am I tuned into my own "fairytale" here?Your math is a bit off, by a factor of 10. A #43 and #42 differ by only 0.0045" and the hole size actually made by drills can vary from -0.001" to +0.003". Larger number and letter size drills have greater difference in size, but they also have a wider tolerance for hole size, and the diameter for tapping is not as critical.
Jim
Speaking of drill bits, here's something I'm wondering about: I used Marv's formula to figure the DOT at 65% for a 4-40 tap. If my figures were right, it came out to about .0910. So a #43 @ .0890 was about .020 to small and a #42 @ .0935 was about .015 to big. However, a 2.3 mm @ .0906 was "just right". So that begs the question of whether mm bits are sometimes used to bridge the gap between numbered bits or am I tuned into my own "fairytale" here?Your math is a bit off, by a factor of 10. A #43 and #42 differ by only 0.0045" and the hole size actually made by drills can vary from -0.001" to +0.003". Larger number and letter size drills have greater difference in size, but they also have a wider tolerance for hole size, and the diameter for tapping is not as critical.
Jim
If you drill slowly or allow a drill bit to spin in a hole, it will tend to open it up by a couple thousandths, due in part to expansion from heating, and perhaps more because of runout, flex, and vibration and the side cutting action of the margins on the flutes.
Speaking of drill bits, here's something I'm wondering about: I used Marv's formula to figure the DOT at 65% for a 4-40 tap. If my figures were right, it came out to about .0910. So a #43 @ .0890 was about .020 to small and a #42 @ .0935 was about .015 to big. However, a 2.3 mm @ .0906 was "just right". So that begs the question of whether mm bits are sometimes used to bridge the gap between numbered bits or am I tuned into my own "fairytale" here?
Jim
Jim,
By now you've learned that any time you report a calculation in a thread it's a good idea to check it on a calculator. I'm reasonably good at mental arithmetic and I still do that, just as I check myself on a calculator in the shop where an error can have more serious effects.
Nevertheless, your original question is a good one. When you use my DRILL program to find the drill closest to an input hole size, it reports the closest as well as the two smaller and larger than the closest along with their difference from the desired size. For example
(2.20 mm) with size 0.0866 (-0.0044)
(2.25 mm) with size 0.0886 (-0.0024)
(43) with size 0.0890 (-0.0020)
***** (2.30 mm) with size 0.0906 (-0.0004) *****
(2.35 mm) with size 0.0925 (+0.0015)
(42) with size 0.0935 (+0.0025)
(3/32) with size 0.0938 (+0.0028)
As you can see, it includes metric size drills. A well-equipped shop should have a set of metric drills not just for this application but for dealing with metric machinery and metric threads.
and let Carl have his thread back!
Back from a business trip to Canada.
Had to drive via Rochester, New York.
I could have sworn I caught a whiff of mint chocolate cookie.
I must have been real close to cookie-land...and its crumbs. ;D
Good to be home. Now I have a whole lot of catching up to do.
Should have let me know you were going by, would have handed you a bag of cookies on your way by!
If you came up to Rochester and caught the Thruway over to Buffalo/Canada, you were only a couple miles away.
Oh well, have to eat your portion for you... :shrug:
Should have let me know you were going by, would have handed you a bag of cookies on your way by!
If you came up to Rochester and caught the Thruway over to Buffalo/Canada, you were only a couple miles away.
Oh well, have to eat your portion for you... :shrug:
Best be careful with the offers there my friend.
I suspect I'll be making that trip again (assuming I last long enough at my job).
In the meantime...enjoy my cookies. :lolb:
It wasn't until I was going through that area that I realized you might be close by.
If the opportunity comes up again I'll PM you.
(I try not to let people know on the forum when I'm on a trip. I don't so much worry about bad people. It's the pranksters on this forum that are the danger. I won't name them. I'm sure I needn't have to.)
Oops. Did I end that sentence correctly?
Initials are A, B, C, ... you get the picture.
Your cookies passed the QA test. Forgot to log the results, so had to retest with more. Yum.
I've just jinxed myself, haven't I?
Where's my lucky 'knock on wood' piece of wood?
Drat. Lost it. So unlucky.
I've just jinxed myself, haven't I?
Where's my lucky 'knock on wood' piece of wood?
Drat. Lost it. So unlucky.
You ain't lost it friend! It's parked right thar 'tween yer ear bones!! :lolb:
Rochester, NY, isn't that where the Dick Van Dyke show was supposed to be?
Sheesh.Why does this thread remind me of Gilligan's island??!
Must be me. I attract all (the wrong) kinds.
Yeah. New Rochelle, suburb of New York City.
And yeah, Rochester, Benny's sidekick.
Dick Van Dyke show...probably the best (and cleanest) sitcom of all time.
Although the Mary Tyler Show and Gilligan's Island are right up there.
As for the nineteen pages and a few pics...I now and forever disavow any responsibility.
We're all in this together. ;D
Dick Van Dyke show...probably the best (and cleanest) sitcom of all time.
Oh, and thanks for the Alien movie reference, that one scared the crap out of me. Friend (?) Of mine suggested seeing it, I thought it was just another scifi movie, was not expecting the horror side! Guy near us with huge bucket of popcorn left after the monster ate his way out of the guys chest. Kept waiting for the monster to come out of the cat at the end.
Golleeeeee.... and hot diggy dog Uncle Jed we done got us some piccys...... :lolb:
Mighty fine Zee and I should hope that your courage is going up with this challenge, seeing as you've make considerable progress. 8)
There's been the occasion where I forget to zip up. (One of my top fears on my two lists of fears.)
...that's still way better than forgetting to zip down!
I like the really high milk fat, vanilla bean, image that :lolb:. I will also admit to liking it with plain Lay's Potato Chips (crisps ) ,however, I don't think even I could cross it with tipsy onions :disagree: :facepalm:. Does T do her own corned beef, or is there a deli like I dream for here somewhere near?
Cletus
Oh yeah, machining, new end mills do make you feel good, don't they?
You've been hanging around Jo too much Zee.
It's nice to have a nightcap and peek in to see what progress is being made. Tonight though, I think I had a bit too much Irish because this steam engine has suddenly become very confusing
You could drill a hole before you cut teh slot to give a rounded end but you won't get teh saw to cut all the way to teh hole
Provided you have your vice clocked true and you keep the same face of the work against the fixed jaw milling from both sides should be fine particularly with a 2-flute cutter that won't get pulled to one side.
Depending on the material (especially for steel, for aluminum too sometimes if the alloy is one of the ones that likes to stick to the cutter edge), for long slots like that I will frequently drill a chain of holes down the length to remove the bulk of the material, goes pretty quick in the mill. Then come back with the end mill and connect the dots.
Jason...I'm still amazed how you caught that. I don't recall you had done the Monitor...what made you think something was wrong?
(Other than since it was me...there had to be something amiss.)
So, it's hot pepper pizza Friday with a stinking hoppie back, should we expect anything other than banter for the next few hours :shrug: :facepalm:Ah come on Dog, don't get him started on food again. Don't you thing we done ate enough. :lolb: Crawfish did some body say crawfish......... :Love: :lolb:
Cletus
Machinist-Birds - chuck up a pig and see what you can build! :ROFL:
For rounding corners like that I usually take it to the disc or belt sander, plate flat on the table and hand rotate it through 90 to take off the corner. Takes just a little coordination but goes quick.
For rounding corners like that I usually take it to the disc or belt sander, plate flat on the table and hand rotate it through 90 to take off the corner. Takes just a little coordination but goes quick.
I'll try that. I can practice on some scrap and see if I get what I want. Thanks.
For rounding corners like that I usually take it to the disc or belt sander, plate flat on the table and hand rotate it through 90 to take off the corner. Takes just a little coordination but goes quick.
I'll try that. I can practice on some scrap and see if I get what I want. Thanks.
That is quite a nice family shot there Zee. And a real picture too, not those out of focus virtual holes
For rounding corners like that I usually take it to the disc or belt sander, plate flat on the table and hand rotate it through 90 to take off the corner. Takes just a little coordination but goes quick.
I'll try that. I can practice on some scrap and see if I get what I want. Thanks.
On this thread I wait until there's about 5 more pages before looking in. Then I might find one page with a part being made.
When you say "round over" bit, what does this cutter look like? Is it like one of those carbide tipped router tool bits?
Fresh from shell crab?
I am going to make a start on this build.
I will even try to remember to take pictures.
Excellent! I don't know what equipment you have...but the smaller scale like Chris did might be the way to go. I will watch.
I will even try to remember to take pictures.:lolb: You need not worry about remembering. Loads of people here who won't let you. ;)
Those latest pictures a just down right impressive Zee. You have really come a long way my friend!!
I am thinking that I need to get some new batteries for my camera and find my tripod otherwise they will never happen
Batter dipped Kiwi birds?Those latest pictures a just down right impressive Zee. You have really come a long way my friend!!
Thanks Bill. With your help and many others on this forum.I am thinking that I need to get some new batteries for my camera and find my tripod otherwise they will never happen
Thinking? It's not a question. I have learned that without pics...people yell at you. I don't like being yelled at. I suspect you're the same.
So get the batteries, find the tripod, and get started!
And if you want to include some New Zealand cuisine...I'm up for it.
Batter dipped Kiwi birds?
C'mon. You can do better.
Thanks Don. Say, what are you up to? Building anything or still getting used to retirement? If it's the latter...be careful...one can get used to not being busy.No worry Zee I am always into something. Just getting things ready in the shop a taking time off to enjoy myself plus spring stuff in the yard and around the house. I will be into an engine build soon. I have all my material ready. There are still a few tools to finish nothing great just basic stuff plus a few gear cutters and gears to make. Thanks for asking buddy...
Two pictures...you are on a roll zee...keep it up!!! Well shaped aluminum too! That could still be some expensive shop time though :)
Bill
Bill
Tell Don that its not aluminum, its a new alloy called 'white brass', he'll like it more!
Found the issue I was having with Enco. Had to close and reopen the browser.
Windows doesn't seem to like having things open for too long.
Oh yea, try to fool the old coonass. Could be some alloy we find in the swamps :lolb: :lolb: but I still like it Zee......... :ThumbsUp:
Tell Don that its not aluminum, its a new alloy called 'white brass', he'll like it more!
Oh yea, try to fool the old coonass.
That was one Bill for each picture Zee... :Lol:
Looking Good Carl
How did you do the fillet around the post of the Front housing? Was it with a ball nose end mill?
Too many rpms or too fast feed speed?
That was one Bill for each picture Zee... :Lol:
So what happened to the other Bills in the posts with more than two pics? Or is it one Bill per 'worthwhile pic'. :Lol:
No doubt you gave me a 'gimme'. If not two.
Maybe Bill needs this T-shirt: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Funny-Duck-Tales-T-Shirt-John-Baron-ONE-BILL-TOO-MANY-Humor-Pink-NWT-Head-Shop-/191839460734?hash=item2caa85dd7eThat was one Bill for each picture Zee... :Lol:
So what happened to the other Bills in the posts with more than two pics? Or is it one Bill per 'worthwhile pic'. :Lol:
No doubt you gave me a 'gimme'. If not two.
Probably too many rpms. I tend to feed slow. But to be honest, I don't really know what 'slow' is in this world. Still learning.
Probably most machinists ultimately use the senses of feel, sound, smell, and appearance (especially chip formation) to determine optimum speed, feed, and DOC.
Looking good there Zee. Nice finish too. You are really making good progress!!
Bill
Those "needle" swarf bits can really be a problem, more so with steel than aluminum.
Looking good there Zee. Nice finish too. You are really making good progress!!
Bill
Hm...one Bill with 4 pictures posted. Which one was worth it?Those "needle" swarf bits can really be a problem, more so with steel than aluminum.
This was aluminum. And I notice that when I hit the cutter with WD-40...the chips change. More 'needly' as you say.
But what do you mean by 'really a problem'?
One problem I've had is boring a hole and trying to fit a shaft. Too tight so another pass without really changing anything and now too loose.
So.... what's for supper?
You are entitled to a few guilty pleasures Zee. Just don't advertise it !!
man someone has to tell that women what you been up to while she's gone....... :rant: Do you need someone to help you eat all that food I am available......
Well you can trust me...not sure about E and now D too
Sounds like some pretty good eats; no mention of what to wash it all down with? Stay out of the wine!
So if you are all alone we can expect some nice shop progress reports?
For the reamer, I get same chatter and squeal, have learned to advanced it so it is just touching the hole, then turn on the power as I advance it into the hole. No chatter that way, well maybe for a turn. Same on withdrawal, turn off the power before it is all the way out of the hole. And make sure to give it some oil before starting too.
On the drill that grabbed, check tip for material galled on. Or any dulling of the lead edge. Once it grabbs, you have a drill shaped big chip at the bottom of the hole, need to advance very slow till you cut that ragged part out.
And DON'T let your mind go astray on that last statement :lolb:
On a completely different note...haven't heard much from a few folks (I don't mean my thread...I have no expectations there. Just generally).
Marv? You around?
Arnold? Still busy?
Jo? Is it gardening time?
Rats. Busted my 1/8" end mill. :'(
Feed was too fast.
Time to go take care of daughter's cat.
Rats. Busted my 1/8" end mill. :'(That's what you get for eating good will T's away.......... :lolb:
Feed was too fast.
Time to go take care of daughter's cat.
That's what you get for eating good will T's away..........
Thanks Bill.
Chris...file an 1/8" slot?
Paul...I have double-ended 1/8" end mills but they don't have the reach, or rather, length of cut.
I've been considering Jason's suggestion to mill from both sides. But as he said, the vice has to be truly true.
Maybe that's where a bit of filing comes in. ;D
You're talking about cleaning up a slot, right?For a long one like that, make cut with hacksaw and clean up with the files. I like using a fine jewelers saw to cut down each side of a narrow slot an across bottom then use files to clean it up.
Not using a file to cut (file) a slot 3/4" long and 1/2" deep?
I have a couple of sets of small files. I like them.
Are you going to split the rear bearing or just the housing?
Are you going to split the rear bearing or just the housing?
Aw crap! I hadn't noticed the rear bearing was split too. I'd only done the housing.
Hm. Gotta think on this. Double hm. I don't know how to go about it.
I still don't know. :help:
How? Why is it split? How necessary is it?
Are you going to split the rear bearing or just the housing?
Aw crap! I hadn't noticed the rear bearing was split too. I'd only done the housing.
Hm. Gotta think on this. Double hm. I don't know how to go about it.
I still don't know. :help:
How? Why is it split? How necessary is it?
Is it split all the way through or just along one edge?
I was thinking of slitting an oversized piece of bronze and then soft soldering the pieces back together.
Then set it up in the 4 jaw and turn and bore to the required size and then separate.
But, here's the deal Phil; you're making parts, eating steak and steak fries, and drinking wine, and then you say you are still sicky and taking a nap, I thinks you is trying to shirt us
Regarding the bearings - doesn't the cap and bearing have a lubricator screwed into them? Then will hold the bearing in position.
OK, so we know a bit of machining is going on, and rather wonderful it is in all, but the steak and the steak fries? Really ... you know the rules ... no pics, it didn't happen (can't find the proper smiley).
I think the forum should approach a TV company ... "Iron Chef's Of The World and Model Engineering" . The "chef's have to create a weekly dining masterpiece, and beside their cooker they have a small machine shop where they have 6 weeks to turn out a metal masterpiece.
Methinks it would be a hit! Oh Ya ... the prize ... 1 week in Jo's garden, to sort out what she doesn't have time for, and the winner would get to fondle all the machines and the casting kits.
If I saw that on a set of plans, I'd tell myself that a 2x scale build would be perfect :ROFL:
...
Must find additional sustenance.
...
I can tolerate the the Broccoli but the Cauliflower defiantly is not going to happen.
Touch off the bottom of your cutter on your work piece; then drop 1/2 the cutter thickness and then 1/2 the diameter of your part. But you knew this, right? 1/32"is a big number, maybe you were busy coughing up a lung. :lolb:
I wish you were going to be at the show this weekend.
Hm...what was supposed to happen...I touched off the bottom of the cutter to the part. Went down the thickness of the cutter, then went down the width of the part minus the slot width divided by two. Should still be right. I must have used the wrong number somewhere. (Obviously.)
I like a good quiche. Get over it. :ROFL:
I'm sure that the new members are beginning to suspect that the "M" in "MEM" stands for "Monitor." with the three ongoing builds. Just to confuse them even more, Richie, my UPS guy, delivered some .125 plate which looks suspiciously like Monitor base frames.
But so far I've avoided those mid-western tombstones that begin with "hey watch me do this!"
But so far I've avoided those mid-western tombstones that begin with "hey watch me do this!"
Or "Look ma, no brain!", " How hard could that be?", "I could jump that!"... :lolb:
But so far I've avoided those mid-western tombstones that begin with "hey watch me do this!"
Or "Look ma, no brain!", " How hard could that be?", "I could jump that!"... :lolb:
Well exactly. For some reason it reminded me of several episodes as a kid that would have taken me out of the gene pool.
Once was dropping a punk into a box of black cats. And then trying to retrieve it until I saw a fuse go.
Not as bad as the kid that dropped a spark into a box of m-80s. He also survived but the owners of many windows were not happy.
But so far I've avoided those mid-western tombstones that begin with "hey watch me do this!"
Glad you were never a winner of the Darwin Award!
Retire now!
What will be under the floor? Tell the builder that you may want to put a 2100 pound Bridgeport on it.
Being serious here.
The "other" forum, a few years ago, had a thread when Vascon was building a new shop and planned some heavy machinery.
This thread is currently on hold for renovation.
So here's the story. Retirement is around the corner. Could be tomorrow...if they let me go or I get tired enough...or within 1 year, 10 months, and 20 days (or so) if the next project is interesting.
Do we (T and I) stay or move?
We're going the route of staying. Which means renovating the house so we can stay here until they bag me up and carry me away.
So we're adding onto the house. We're modifying the existing garage into a bedroom (so we won't have to deal with stairs as we decay) and adding a new garage. And behind the new garage? A workshop with windows!!! :cartwheel:
That means a whole lot of cleaning out and rearranging. It doesn't help that it's summer time which means sitting outside on the porch enjoying some wine and conversation with T instead of running machines and staying warm by the motor.
I don't expect any machine time for some time. But I hope to do some drawing and I certainly expect to keep in touch on the forum so we can all become decrepit together.
Nothing in stone yet. But that's the current plan.
Ah...that brings up a question that came up with the builder.
Please help.
What kind of floor to put in the workshop?
The builder suggests tile. I was thinking vinyl. Could be concrete.
I'm looking for pros and cons.
Thanks.
This seems ripe for a new thread. Otherwise, a future reader may think that Zee is building a 220V, cement Monitor.With picture windows.
This seems ripe for a new thread. Otherwise, a future reader may think that Zee is building a 220V, cement Monitor.
Post a sign for the miscreants. "The really good stuff can be accessed by wearing long sleeves, gloves and letting your hair hang free. Then, lean over this lathe and press the big green button to open the vault"
Hmmm, living out thegoldenleaden years in southeastern PA wouldn't be my choice
220 is an absolute.
Think about including an exhaust port/fan in the shop design.
The shop man-door should open outwards and be fitted with a chime (to announce visitors).
Think about rafter storage; maybe even a mezzanine.
Somewhere in here someoneiswas, I think, building an engine :) :) :wine1:
Post a sign for the miscreants. "The really good stuff can be accessed by wearing long sleeves, gloves and letting your hair hang free. Then, lean over this lathe and press the big green button to open the vault"
Attaching the welder to the door knob when you're away might work too.
When I'm king and the Farallon Islands have been converted to a prison, the mandatory sentence for theft will be 25 years and you're not allowed to return to the country when released.
The Farallons are 30 miles off the coast of San Francisco. Cold water and vicious currents plus the waters around the islands are breeding grounds for the great white shark. Swimming would be a life-changing experience.
The beauty of this island is that we wouldn't need guards.
Oh - Zee, another VERY important addition to your new shop - make sure there is a nice little apartment for the shop elves to live in! Stock it with cookies and beer, couch, small TV set, and hope some good elves move in. :DrinkPint:
It might be interesting to see how California's tourism business is doing since the time he ran away from Pennsylvania.
And just to be clear...I didn't run away from PA; I escaped!
If you do get Elves, watch out for those pesky Elves impersonators. ;)
Take a stand man. Put on a pair of overalls and a shirt with a pocket, get a big claw hammer and stand your ground. Now you can paint it pleasant earth tones and decorate in French country motif, but, DO NOT GIVE UP SPACE. I'm going to send in reinforcements >:D :lolb:
Cletus
Take a stand man.
bumzies.
New shop is getting smaller and smaller.
It would help if I had that muddy picture of you know who. :naughty:
Hello my friends. I hope I can still call you all that. I've been out of touch for a while.
Unfortunately, I still expect to be out for a while yet.
Firstly, I hope this finds you and yours all in good health and having fun. A belated Merry/Happy Christmas and my best wishes for the New Year.
The wedding was great. I should have a couple of pics soon. I mean really great. I managed to do a Viennese waltz with my daughter and then another with my wife. At my age and worthless body...it's quite a feat. Very fast.
And now to more important things...
We've been busy emptying out the 1st floor in preparation of the remodel. The digging started today.
A huge project. I don't recall if I'd mentioned what we are doing...
After fruitless searching for a home to retire to (less than two years away!!!) we decided to stay put and remodel the house so we can stay here comfortably until...how to put this...it's time to close shop permanently.
Bumping the 1st floor out 8 feet, adding a sun porch, converting the garage to a master bedroom (so we don't have to deal with stairs), and adding a garage...along with...yes...a workshop!!!
Digging started today! Very scary seeing all the huge equipment and the big holes.
The workshop looks like it will end up to be about 13'6" by 18'or 19'. I think that should be more than sufficient.
And two windows!!! No more basement for me. And it's all mine. Mine. None of this storing of canned veggies and fruit in my area anymore.
I can't wait for March/April. Then I'll order my mill and lathe. I'll have questions for you all.
That's it for now. Just a quickie note to let you all know I do think of you.
I will be back.
Yes yes. I'll have pictures.
Thanks for your patience.