Model Engine Maker
Engines => Restoration of Model Engines => Topic started by: Jo on December 18, 2019, 04:01:22 PM
-
During a visit to my Supplier I mentioned that of late I have been building a number of Stirling engines but to date had not built a Heinrici did he have any castings for one :naughty: The answer came back no but he did have Westbury's original prototype for the one he published in ME back in the 1940's 8)
When my Supplier first acquired the engine from Mr Westbury's daughter it was in a sad condition and rusty :'( He had cleaned it up to remove the rust but it had not actually put it back together again :slap: So I have confiscated it so that I can put it back together and see if I can get it running.
There are also a pair of spare flywheel castings that I need to decide if it should have two flywheels or stick with just the one :thinking: And then it will need to be compared with the engine Mr Westbury published in ME all those years ago under the pseudo name "Artificer". I don't think this engine was ever drawn up.
Jo
-
Very nice Jo.
Wasn't this followed up by Reeves and sold as a kit?
I too have all the patterns and rights to produce a water cooled version of this engine, and....
A very nice cast Iron platform for it to sit upon.
You'll probably find that the second flywheel is needed to get it running properly, it'll be nice to see the
" skipping man " in action!! ;)
Cheers Graham.
-
I'll have to go and see if I have those MEs now.
have a feeling I saw some Heinrici castings on ebay within the last week it he who must be obeyed wants an extra Xmas pressie
-
Hi Graham,
I believe so but this is a very much smaller engine than the one Reeves sell this one is about 9" tall where as the Reeves on is nearly 2ft tall. It is rather sweet ;D
I'll have to go and see if I have those MEs now.
have a feeling I saw some Heinrici castings on ebay within the last week it he who must be obeyed wants an extra Xmas pressie
The article was in volume 83 towards the end of the year..
Was that what he was up to? :noidea:
Jo
-
Are you going to make the fountain to go with it, would look nice in the conservatory :LittleDevil:
Think I may have that volume.
-
I am looking to put the engine back together and get it running. Then I have to return it to its custodian :(
Jo
-
Interesting project Jo.
Looking forward to seeing it run. I just happen to have castings for this enigne, https://www.ajreeves.com/heinrici.html
Purchased long ago from a friend who was never going to do anything with them. Also came with a welded steel base, not sure if he made that or it came with the kit.
Dave
-
Dave, Reeves used to list the welded base so probably purchased with the castings.
-
I've just been having a fondle: This engine has a 9/16" bore on the power cylinder and a 1" stroke compared with the 1" bore x 1 3/4" stroke of the Reeves one.
Another one could easily be made out of bar stock :slap: With a fair bit of fettling to try to make it look more cast engine like :thinking:
Jo
-
I've just been having a fondle: This engine has a 9/16" bore on the power cylinder and a 1" stroke compared with the 1" bore x 1 3/4" stroke of the Reeves one.
Another one could easily be made out of bar stock :slap: With a fair bit of fettling to try to make it look more cast engine like :thinking:
Jo
Jo making a bar-stock cylinder? :o
Who are you and what have you done with Jo?!?!
:Lol:
-
When I started model engineering 30 years ago the Reeves Heinrici was the first model I built. A base wasn't available at that time so I welded up my own steel base. I also followed the Edgar Westbury articles that I think were in the early 1950's editions of Model Engineer.The model was built with a copper displacer and displacer cylinder following the plans. It ran extremely well but used to get hot enough for the cooling water to boil over. Julian Wood (Stirling Engine Society) kindly brazed up a replacement stainless steel displacer and cylinder which was a vast improvement. Now it will run all day on a small flame without the water needing to be changed.
Here are a couple of fairly recent pictures of the engine and a few short videos strung together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_Xeo16VYuM
Andy
-
Beautiful engines Andy!
Dave
-
Thanks indeed for the compliment Dave. The old Heinrici still has it’s original paint and it buffs up quite well. The square water jacket is an aluminium casting whereas one of my friends has an incomplete kit with a cast iron water jacket which we think could be sixty years old, it certainly looks like it.
Andy
-
Looking good Andy and I see your Ryder Ericsson got a good photo in the latest ME
-
That runs well Andy :) Your Heinrici is huge in comparison with this little prototype.
Having reviewed the condition of the engine I will have to get back to my Supplier as I know he likes engines to have their "original patina" to the extent that Golly still had the river silt on it and the broken connecting rod and he was not willing to have it cleaned up or a replacement rod made :(
Jo
-
Well if Eric won't let you do anything with it try and track down as set of these.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/stirling-hot-air-fountain-engine-534162365
I think this is the same one that Littlelocos bought the patterns for from paul Jacob's estate but as yet not back in production. There was talk of just doing the engine separately rather than the whole fountain.
-
I am not sure about wanting an indoor fountain.
The engine is back together. It has a very interesting baffle plate in that tatty looking stand. Just trying it with one flywheel on a tea light :)
Jo
-
Really does not look like many castings used in it, flywheel and the two A frame supports, flywheel(s) could be bought in or fabricated and A frames easy enough to make. Is the finned part cast? that could easily be turned from solid.
-
Ok after a few hours you can see that when the engine gets warm the hot cap is leaking and blowing the candle flame (sorry about the horrible noise from the radio :Doh: ) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVxwGOmpNhE
I feel that seeking to replace the hot cap with a solid one is going to be deemed as rather more than maintaining the "original patina" so I will have to build a copy myself to prove the design will work :embarassed:
Jo
-
Hi Jo.
Is it not something that a dab of hard solder will fix?
Cheers Graham.
-
It is but it is a question of if I do will the engine will not be original? I am waiting to ask the custodian of the engine.
Jo
-
Hi Andy.
I hadn't seen your post from yesterday, or the video. Very nice indeed.
I'm intrigued by the partial view of an air cooled horizontal engine, a Planck per chance?
We used to see one rallied regularly in the 80's. The feature that most " stuck out " was the use of an air filter housing from an old Ford being used as the heater shroud and chimney. It almost looked right, if you know what I mean?
Cheers Graham.
-
Hi Graham, it was a partial view of a 1907 Bing Hot Air engine that was on loan to me at the time, sorry to disappoint. I'll add a couple of pictures of it and a picture of a water cooled Plank that was on eBay a few years ago. I haven't seen a picture of the air cooled version.
Merry Christmas
Andy
-
The latest on this engine is that the previous Custodian and I have agreed that while the workmanship of the Engine suggests that Westbury may have made this engine the base makes its originality suspect. I now find myself the new owner of this engine and have been told I can do what I like with it :) :thinking:
In the meantime someone has been attacking delivery drivers again :ShakeHead: And I had a challenge extracting him from the parcel and he is now trying to convince me he has brought a casting fondling observation stool but it reminds me of something :noidea:
Jo
-
The latest on this engine is that the previous Custodian and I have agreed that while the workmanship of the Engine suggests that Westbury may have made this engine the base makes its originality suspect. I now find myself the new owner of this engine and have been told I can do what I like with it :) :thinking:
Jo
I am very surprised that Eric was prepared to break up his Westbury collection, he had gathered together most of the great man's collection. You must have caught Eric at a weak moment.
Mike
-
Yes he "had" all of Westbury's engines. Westbury's daughter gave them to him with the instruction to keep what he wanted and to pass the remainder on to the SMEE. It took a few years before the SMEE saw any of them as he was checking them out.. I think one of the members had to encourage him to pass them on in the end ::)
I think that horrible Aluminium stand is going to have to go :facepalm2:
Jo
-
In the condition it is in at them moment if Eric had given it to SMEE it would no doubt have been consigned to a dark corner never to come out again, at least if it is presentable and hopefully running there is the hope that it can attend a show or two and be seen by many. The original parts can be kept with the engine if need be then it could always be put back to present condition if someone wanted.
So who's set of castings are those Jo, I did not think the reeves one was Aluminium or have they been cast from other parts being aluminium? Also what size?
J
-
The latest on this engine is that the previous Custodian and I have agreed that while the workmanship of the Engine suggests that Westbury may have made this engine the base makes its originality suspect. I now find myself the new owner of this engine and have been told I can do what I like with it :) :thinking:
In the meantime someone has been attacking delivery drivers again :ShakeHead: And I had a challenge extracting him from the parcel and he is now trying to convince me he has brought a casting fondling observation stool but it reminds me of something :noidea:
Jo
Hi Jo.
Those castings are VERY familiar!!
Cheers Graham.
-
So who's set of castings are those Jo, I did not think the reeves one was Aluminium or have they been cast from other parts being aluminium? Also what size?
Those are Surus' castings and I have been told that I am not allowed to touch them again until Wednesday :embarassed:
Jo
-
I meant who produced then not who the new owner is as that's obvious, just need to hope he lets you machine them for him ;)
-
Graham is the supplier of the set of casting fondling observation stool casting sets ::) I am waiting for him to phone me about them...
If you read the original article by Westbury he suggests casting his model engine parts in aluminium.
Jo
-
Thanks for the call Graham :)
Graham has confirmed that he has the patterns/rights for Surus' new acquisition. The original patterns were done by a Stirling engine enthusiast "Andy Spooner". The castings are probably about 30 years old but by the colour of them we are not sure if they have been appropriately aged ::)
Jo
-
You're welcome Jo. :)
Those with a keen eye might have noticed the uncanny resemblance to R.L.E. flywheels!!
I was going to bring this kit out a couple of years after the Robinson but other things got in the way. Andy made a set of replacement flywheel patterns that were correct to that model, being slightly smaller in diameter and having a more flattened spoke.
The best part was the base. A lovely replication of the original Heinrici design complete with chimney stub.
At the time it was one of the most expensive castings being made, in Iron, of course. A special moulding box was needed to make it.
When I get a moment I'll root out the patterns Jo, perhaps we could sort out a couple of cast Iron wheels for you?
Cheers Graham.
-
Thanks for filling in the details of where the castings originate from Graham. Would be interesting to see the base moulding boxes, I suspect they are similar to the RMC type D that I recently got with the possible addition of a loose piece for the chimney stub.
Would be nice to try and replicate that base for the smaller Westbury engine though anything will be nicer than what it has at the moment
-
Good morning Jason.
I think you misunderstood my previous post a little. The pattern is, as is. It needed 3 boxes.
The " Drag " or bottom box to stand the " core " on and then a double " Cope " for the pattern to be moulded in sand. The middle Cope was specially made to the same height as the pattern then the top cope covered and provided closure.
The base is quite tall so there was a lot of labour involved in moulding. The pattern also doubled as the
" corebox " a neatly made plywood skin allowed the inside to be filled with core sand which provided the detail of the four arches. The chimney boss was indeed a " loose piece " that was " fished out " after the main pattern was removed from the sand.
I agree with your last sentence, if Jo made a pattern I'd be happy to cast it here.
Cheers Graham.
-
Not quite the same methods I was thinking as you have used a core, the Type E is done without a core with one half of the moulding box having a deep recess for the external and the other the protruding internal shape.
Agree a cast base for the Westbury would look good, I assume you are doing the aluminium casting yourself.
-
Indeed, Jason.
I still have just under a Ton of " milled " Mansfield Red sand here. It might be the very last !!
It's milled with a small proportion of Bentonite for extra " hold " but no Coaldust. We found that for doing Aluminium the Coaldust caused staining to the finished castings.
I'd be very happy to fire up the furnace for such a " special " job, ETW holds a special place in model engineering circles it would be nice to be involved.
Cheers Graham.
-
I've been hacksawing, holes sawing, tapping, screwing and smoothing out an embryo stand. More work still to go...
Jo
-
That looks so much better!
Maybe you should ask Santa for a vertical band saw for Christmas. ;D
Dave
-
Indeed it does look a lot better.
Knowing that you do have a vertical bandsaw I wonder why you used the hacksaw?
-
Because there is a huge heap of Oak logs in front of it which are inside hiding from the rain and I decided it would take less time to hand cut it than move the logs ::)
Jo
-
That looks a much neater base :praise2: Indeed sometimes using the hand tools is quicker than sorting out/setting up the power tools :)
-
That looks very nice Jo.
Just the minor repair to the " hot " end and the man will skip again! ;)
Eagerly awaiting the moment.
Cheers Graham.
-
It is not finished yet ::)
Jo
-
Today I received the drawings for the "stool" I now realise that those castings that turned up the other day may not be what I was told :ShakeHead:
It seems that Mr Westbury published two sets of Heinrici drawings one back in the 1940's which was lacking a few details which is reflected in the Reeves castings and in the Plans service drawings and the second which was published in 1964/65. Both the prototype and the set of castings ::) are of the later design with the multi part cylinder that also allows the engine to be build as an air cooled version. The non crank flywheel should have an integral pulley :thinking:
Jo
-
I knocked up some pieces of angle with curved insides for the base then did a bit more drilling, screwing, filling :paranoia:
I'm now declaring the base as replaced: just need to clean up the JB Weld once dry and paint it black :)
Jo
-
That almost looks like a casting Jo!! :)
All the very best for Christmas and the New year.
Graham and Jules.
-
Thank you Graham :)
Best wishes to your family too. :cheers:
Jo & :pinkelephant:
-
That looks the part
Quite an odd way it was done on the original, almost looks like the angles were an afterthought possibly when a few legs got broken, if original I would have thought they would flow better into the four feet
-
This is an engine Heinrici made with its original stand. Different stands were available depending on the intended fuel.
Jo
-
Yes I know what it is based on but they do look like an after thought that may have been added to the pattern if legs were getting damaged .
Also the right 1/4" circle profile rather than angle ;)
Something more like this would look like the stretchers between the legs were part of the original design.
-
That will look nice on your model when you build it. Are you going for the 1940 or 1964/65 design?
Jo
-
Well if I did one then probably neither as I quite like the look of the ones like you posted from Prestons that don't have the separate cylinder on the side. The brackets that support the rocker shaft look a lot more interesting and I like the general movement more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3uiJYCLjQc
-
Bit late for Santa to bring me these, maybe next year ;)
http://www.de.heinrici-heissluftmotor.de/html/einzelteile.html
http://www.de.heinrici-heissluftmotor.de/assets/applets/Seiten_aus_mim_05_08.pdf
-
That looks very desirable you will have to provide us with more details once you have the price.
Jo
-
Merry Christmas.
Before Gardner's of Patricroft went into mass production of the Robinson patent air engine they had built a small vertical " Beta " style engine with the " concentric " piston arrangement. Like the Heinrici's you've recently posted.
I'm unable to post a picture at the moment, but I did have the pleasure of seeing one at the Anson a couple of years ago.
This model might be one to consider scaling due to its rarity?
Cheers Graham.
-
Sounds interesting, hopefully you will be able to post a pic when you are able.
-
Not the best of views Jason.
If you're interested I can see if more are available.
Cheers Graham.
-
Works photo.
Courtesy, Anson Engine Museum.
-
Thanks for that Graham, a similar arrangement but Robinson look to have used a link from the crankshaft via a bellcrank rather than an additional crank pin off the flywheel that Heinrici did to move the smaller piston.
Jo's little helper will be disappointed to learn that the German castings are no longer available as they proved too costly but I think he may still sell the drawings, looking back at one of last years MiM mags there is an article about building one from the drawings and it is also covered in this thread on a German forum which Google translates quite well. Nice little water pump on it too.
https://forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29837
The few parts this chap cast could be fabricated and my CNC should make easy work of tehtwo brackets
-
Thanks for that Graham, a similar arrangement but Robinson look to have used a link from the crankshaft via a bellcrank rather than an additional crank pin off the flywheel that Heinrici did to move the smaller piston.
Jo's little helper will be disappointed to learn that the German castings are no longer available as they proved too costly but I think he may still sell the drawings, looking back at one of last years MiM mags there is an article about building one from the drawings and it is also covered in this thread on a German forum which Google translates quite well. Nice little water pump on it too.
https://forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29837
The few parts this chap cast could be fabricated and my CNC should make easy work of tehtwo brackets
By Robinson, I assume you meant Gardner Jason?
Yes, by elongating the crankpin the designer managed to bring the " gubbins " inboard making the engine look less cluttered.
I remember speaking with a volunteer from the Anson who did all the electrical work many years back. He told me that his grandfather had literally bankrupted the family business trying to develop a working hot air engine, they were located quite close to both Robinson and Gardner in the Manchester area. With such a simple principle you have to wonder what they were doing wrong?
Cheers Graham.
-
I've taken the Hot Cap off and found that it is similar to the 1965 drawings and has a thread on the end but it is used to thread it into the platform rather than on to the cooled cylinder. the cap has been silver soldered up and is now air tight :)
I have been giving it another spin. The engine needs to get rather warm before it shows any willingness to run. I think the next stage is to fit it with a second flywheel.
I also wonder if it would work better if it was pressurised :noidea:
Jo
-
That new base looks much better now it's painted Jo. :)
I did mention earlier that you'd probably need both flywheels for a run. ;)
Regarding " pressurisation " yes, this is used to improve the overall efficiency of the more modern Stirling cycle engines but you might have problems trying to keep a decent seal on the displacer piston rod and power piston.
Personally I'd persevere with fitting that second flywheel and looking for any tight spots that will definitely reduce the engines ability to run. Slackening the mains and a very light oil or WD40 as a lubricant usually does the trick.
Cheers Graham.
-
The flywheel castings took a while as they were of the stickiest/softest type of Gunmetal going :facepalm: I machined the sufaces where I could but a lot of it had to be fettled by hand.
The engine is now sporting a pair of flywheels and it would seem the original engine had a fractional under distance 12.7mm throw so the piston is just bottoming out, I'll sort that out in the morning ::)
Jo
-
Happy new Year Jo.
So you've put the original flywheel to one side and gone for the pair of new ones?
The engine looks very nice now it's sat upon the replacement base.
How about shimming under the support brackets initially? Unless the displacer won't let that happen?
Cheers Graham.
-
Thank you Graham, happy new year to you too.
So you've put the original flywheel to one side and gone for the pair of new ones?
Yes the bronze is a different colour on the new castings so it would have looked decidedly odd with the original.
I have considered shimming under the A frames but first I am going to check the power piston is tight on its rod ;)
Jo
-
Starts to look like a runner :ThumbsUp:
Stirling engines do not necessarily require much to do so ....
Still following your progress :cheers: :popcorn:
-
Thank you Per,
I have taken off the A frame to find as I suspected the power piston had unwound a bit from its centre causing it to bottom out in the power cylinder.
The engine is now back together and under strict instruction ::) I am now trying the meths burner Dave gave me. Initial thoughts are it will warm up much faster with the meths burner than my candle so the heat is on and I am keeping my fingers crossed ;)
Jo
-
Good morning Jo.
For me personally, this was the stage of most satisfaction. The first run....
I presume you tried a few revolutions with the transfer plug removed? It's a good way to find those tight spots.
Dave's Meths burner tank looks remarkably like the tank from an Aladdin " market " lamp!
Good luck, Graham.
-
Has it warmed up yet?
Certainly looks a lot nicer with the pair of flywheels rather than just the one. You will have to hurry up and get that kiln sorted then you can take a couple of casts from the A Frame bearing supports to make your own before it goes back to Eric.
-
Yes and proved that the threaded part of the hot end was leaking. On tightening it up the displacer hit again :facepalm:
Currently exploring a parcel that just turned up :-X
Jo
-
Latest on the attempt at running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1rF1-9FYYg
Or not running :(
Jo
-
Almost there :)
Does seem to come to a halt at the same spot, is there a bit of tightness there?
-
ALMOST!!
I noted a " squelching " noise, like air passing through an oily blockage.
Are things suitably " air tight "?
PTFE tape around the threaded portion of the hot end component might help.
Cheers Graham.
-
The noise is air escaping round the displacer rod: the guide is leaking :(
Jo
-
Try a smear of Vaseline Jo.
It should temporarily seal it long enough for a short run. ;)
Cheers Graham.
-
This morning Dave provided an expert finger to twirl the flywheels and off it went:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp5s1il4L44
and someone has some more castings to celebrate with :pinkelephant:
Jo
-
Very nice Jo.
He " Skips " again !! ;)
Cheers Graham.
-
Thank you Graham and for the castings :)
I still need to paint the flywheels red to match the original Flywheel and it is out of balance so the balance weight will also need to be fitted.
Jo
-
That's running very nicely and quiet too, bet you won't want to give it back, are you going to measure it up before it does?
Have you tried swapping the burner for the candle while it is going to see if that is enough to keep it ticking over?
-
I'm not giving it back :-X
Ill try it on a candle once the paint is dry...
Jo
-
That looks very nice Jo. Well done.
Glad to see the CHUK1 arrived safely (Give my regards to Dave). Bit sooner than you expected!!
Colin
-
Glad to see the CHUK1 arrived safely (Give my regards to Dave). Bit sooner than you expected!!
Thanks for picking those up Colin, Dave's visit today was unplanned they should have been arriving in about three weeks time.
Surus was very pleased with his new castings, especially his Sphinx nameplates, one of which he has snaffled off to his casting store to make up for the fact that I have the Sphinx casting set out in the Workshop. The down side is he has been reminded about them :facepalm:
Jo
-
Running nicely Jo :ThumbsUp: Terry
-
Great to see it running as it should :whoohoo: