The end of Fusion 360 for hobbyists

[Woodguy]

If not the end, certainly the beginning of the end we all knew was coming.  Received this today:

Effective October 1, 2020, functionality in Fusion 360 for personal use will be limited, and you’ll no longer have access to the following:   [/size]Probing, 3 + 2-axis milling (tool orientation), multi-axis milling, rapid moves, automatic tool changes [/color] [/size]Multi-sheets, smart templates, output options for drawings (print only). [/color] [/size]Download options from public share links [/color] [/size] Cloud rendering[/color] [/size] Export options including F3Z, DWG, DXF, IGES, SAT, and STEP [/color] [/size]Simulation and generative design [/color] [/size]Unlimited active and editable Fusion 360 documents (10 doc limit). [/color] [/size]Fusion 360 extensions[/color] [/size]These changes are being made to allow us to scale, align intended usage with the various offerings, support advanced capabilities for Fusion 360 subscribers, and stay true to our guiding principles of democratizing design for everyone. [/color] [/size]Fusion 360 for personal use is still free for those of you working on home-based, non-commercial design, manufacturing, and fabrication projects. [/color] [/size]For more information about these changes, please refer here and the FAQ.[/size] [/t][/t]             [/t]

[crueby]

Biggest hits for me are the loss of multi-sheet plans, and no pdf or dwg exports. They DO have a discount on subscriptions at the moment, but this is pretty short notice! I may be forced into buying in, I have a LOT of designs invested in it.Chris

[fumopuc]

Just working at my 4th axis project,  so it will hit me there for sure.
At the other side it is a professinal tool and may be worth to invest the yearly fee.

[Kim]

So, when it says "Limit 10 active editable Fusion 360 documents" does that mean you can have a maximum of 10 files opened at once?  Or does that mean you can only have ten Fusion 360 documents saved.  And if you want to create an eleventh a new design, you have to delete one from your cloud storage?

The first doesn't seem like too big of a limitation.  The second seems pretty sever...

Kim

[crueby]

So, when it says "Limit 10 active editable Fusion 360 documents" does that mean you can have a maximum of 10 files opened at once?  Or does that mean you can only have ten Fusion 360 documents saved.  And if you want to create an eleventh a new design, you have to delete one from your cloud storage?

The first doesn't seem like too big of a limitation.  The second seems pretty sever...

Kim

They cover that in the FAQ about the change. If you have more than 10, you need to archive some. Sounds like some switching in what is archived and what is active, but they say nothing will be deleted on you. They are vague as to what a 'document' is - a project, a single design file? They got a lot of pushback on this one in the announcement in the blog, the guy who does the blog is checking with the development team on it. Some mentioned that since you can archive/de-archive, and still have lots of documents, what is the point of this limit. I agree!
I went ahead and took a leap with the 3 year subscription on sale - lots of $, but I have so much that I use it for, and really need it for the magazine work I do, so it is worth it to me personally. Still think it sucks that they are giving such short notice - I got no email about it, did not know till I saw this thread (thanks WoodGuy! )

[Woodguy]

I wrote to the author of the email and got a response from a senior manager in marketing regarding a mistake in the email, Exports of F3Z WILL be allowed.  The 10 document limit does not mean the loss of any designs. All designs will remain in your account but all but 10 will be in an archived state.  I suggested that exports to STP format were important for collaboration but it is clear they only want you collaborating with other users of Autodesk products.

[crueby]

I'm glad you posted on this, I never got the email notification, probably since I am not subscribed to thier marketing emails though I do have an account there. Would have been a big surprise in a couple weeks.   

[steamer]

If you have a paid subscription...does it change?

Dave

[crueby]

If you have a paid subscription...does it change?

Dave

No - they are only changing what is included with the free one.

[RonGinger]

I always expected Autodesk would cut off the free version,  All the old sayings- No free lunch, you get what you pay for, etc.

Damn, I think I will go back to Alibre, at least it is a price I can afford for hobby use.

[fumopuc]

Hi everybody,
after reading some available Information at the Autodesk site, I can not see an "End" for hobbyists.
The CAD is still  100% available and all the functions which most of us are using, also.

[Jasonb]

They have already restricting it on some of the CAM side for several months, it is possible to purchase access for 1 day or 1 month if you don't want to go the whole hog with a subscription but could add up if you use those extensions a lot.

[Charles Lamont]

It seems there were just too many <sweary word>s using a free account for commercial work. They are probably more to blame than Autodesk.

[kvom]

It appears there are F3Z file converters; you might try to see if they're useable.

I use Solidworks for CAD, but export to DXF for CamBam.   Might be doable with Fusion if the converter works.

[Muzzer]

The main bummer is the recent loss of support for true multi-axis (ie simultaneous) milling. Now they seem to be taking "3+2" away, which sounds to me like indexed 4th axis etc. And there's me having just made myself a fancy new 4th axis. Hopefully it won't be long before alternative CAM packages come along with those features. Given the prevalence of 4th axis projects out there, there is certainly a ready demand.

Most of the other stuff I wouldn't miss although the inability to export F3Z ie save your work to another system would have been a bit mean. Presumably you'd need someone to export your work from the professional version or perhaps import/export via Inventor. Glad to hear it was a misprint.

There's still a lot of really good stuff in Fusion, not least the full, integrated CAD/CAM environment. Stuff like simulation and rendering really aren't a lot of use to amateurs. You'd have to wonder why people like us would ever spend their time / money on rendering images.

Even with a "professional" subscription, many of the features would remain truly unaffordable. Their existing "extension" model is used to charge for the more advanced CAM options (such as true simultaneous multi axis milling, part probing and "steep and shallow" toolpath) and the cost is something eye watering like $120/month. You can forget that for a lark.

[Woodguy]

I really want step files and I have asked them why they removed them.  F3Z files are in the personal license - the email was in error on that point.

[Muzzer]

Ah, I misunderstood. So you'd need to import and export as step or iges using one of the full Autodesk products. It does seem a bit mean but I had a similar problem with files I'd created using Alibre - no way to import them into Solidworks once I had no Alibre access / license. I forget the specifics but the local (Canadian) Alibre reseller was being a complete dick so I'd moved on, despite having paid for it.

The reality is that when you exchange models and assemblies between different manufacturers' CAD programs, you lose all the parameters, mates and properties. So I've found that 2D drawings are actually the most valuable resource and allow you to recreate work if you actually need to. Step files are just dumb bodies without all the design data.

[Johnmcc69]

"So I've found that 2D drawings are actually the most valuable resource and allow you to recreate work if you actually need to. Step files are just dumb bodies without all the design data."

 I would rather " recreate work" with the "dumb(3D) bodies" than 2D drawings. I have no problem getting measurements from 3D models "on the fly" & recreating the model, I've done this numerous times with model engineering & "non hobby" scenarios.

 It's a shame it's came to this situation with AutoDesk, but they just follow other examples of what's on the market. I was sorry to see Draftsight fall..

 Just when you get all warm & fuzzy with a computer program, (any program...) The bottom falls out.

 John

[Art K]

I have to admit that when I figured out Alibre enough to "feel competent" the learning curve was high enough that I didn't want to duplicate that effort. The reality is that I'm not really competent but able to accomplish what I need. I am now glad I didn't go the free route. But that was due only my lack of desire to learn a new system.
Art

[nj111]

In recent weeks I had been seriously thinking of trying the free version of Fusion 360, but probably not now, I'll carry on with a combination of Alphacam for generating CNC coding (including 3d work) and Rhino for 3D drawing. Both of which still running on XP and do everything I could ask for.

[Woodguy]

Further communication from the Marketing manager at Autodesk:


On Oct. 1, 2020, You can still export your designs as STEP file formats via Fusion Team. This workflow will remain valid until Jan 19, 2021. Our intention here was not to limit you from doing what you need to do, but to reduce the number of people abusing the offering type by using it commercially. We understand that STEP is an industry neutral format, however many businesses still rely on this format for downstream workflows, and may be mis-using Fusion 360 purely as a translator.

[Steamer5]

Sounds like it’s time to sharpen up my pencils again, Just when I thought I was making progress with Fusion.

Now the choice is, do I sacrifice several coffees a month to buy into Fusion, or look for something else.......AGAIN!

Oh another choice get my sons to do the drawings for me..........


Cheers Kerrin

[Muzzer]

It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of the CAD/CAM functionality will remain - for free. The sky isn't falling in by any means. Focus on figuring out what's free and what isn't. The alternatives will cost you actual money and often lack many of the features.

[Woodguy]

CAM with no rapids. Cutting speed only.

[Vixen]

Is there any reason why you cannot edit GOO rapid moves into the G code file? It may be more manual  input but it will keep the functionality
Mike

[Woodguy]

Some of those moves may not be so easy to identify - that's the problem.

[Muzzer]

CAM with no rapids. Cutting speed only.

Really? I haven't bothered to look into it yet but that would be plain ludicrous. Where did you get that from? At this rate I may be forced to look a bit closer....

[Muzzer]

CAM with no rapids. Cutting speed only.

Really? I haven't bothered to look into it yet but that would be plain ludicrous. Where did you get that from? At this rate I may be forced to look a bit closer....

EDIT - dear god, you were right. Some snivelling, thrusting MBA has played a blinder there. https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-design-validate/changes-coming-to-fusion-360-for-personal-use-blog-post-amp-faq/td-p/9750675/highlight/false

[Jasonb]

I suppose the lack of rapids will affect those with converted mills more due to their slower max speed than anyone running a high speed spindle. Given the same chip load a mill that is maxed out at 2000rpm will be feeding slower than something with a 10,000rpm spindle so the" new rapids" on the converted mill will be 1/5th of the faster machine

[steamer]

This may sound flippant, and I do NOT intend it to be....but right now I believe there is a deal to get fusion for  $297,    Considering the amount of time I'm spending with this package, and for the fact that I make "coin" with it, I bought it 3 or 4 months ago.   WE ....collectively, are using it a lot as well, we put a great deal of time and effort into our hobby, isn't it worth the price?....even at full price, of $500...?

I don't do enough FEA at my home shop to worry about buying the  FEA ....but it's there if I need to....but I can justify spending the asking price for the hobby arena......looking at what we spend in cutters as a comparison.....for the CAM

Am I along in thinking like this?

Dave

[Muzzer]

To some extent, yes it's not unreasonable to be paying for access - but the hike from zero to ~$500 is a problem for many users. It's particularly unfortunate for the young, students, makers, retirees etc who have little or no means to pay. For the rest of us, some of the critical CAM features have been moved into these "extensions" that would require further significant (and ongoing) outlay and redefine "unaffordable". The proposal to dial rapids back to feedrates seems petty and daft. I'm hovering over whether to cough up for the license but this would still leave me with a largely unusable 4th axis, as I still wouldn't be able to generate toolpaths for it.

They have built up a good user base and a lot of good will over the last 5 years, so blowing a lot of that on a money shot seems unfortunate. There have been a lot of bystanders predicting this kind of move for some time. There are many young (and current) engineers who will remember the impact of this behaviour for years to come, long after the Autodesk product managers have won and spent their performance bonuses.

[cnr6400]

I agree Dave. In my opinion if hobbyists can get usable 3D CAD for $500 it is a good bargain. Professional CAD such as Solidworks is about $7500 to get started and $2500 per year for maintenance and support and this includes new revisions.

Compare the $500 to what you might spend on a TV or high end kitchen appliances or a piece of exercise equipment - they are all expensive for what they are. Look at the value the CAD software brings.

In my experience with CAD over many years free software never stays free forever, and software firms come and go and are acquired etc.

[kvom]

I use CamBam, which has a cheap 1-time license, 3D toolpaths, and an involved used base.  For 2.5D machining, which I do almost 100%, it's hard to beat.  It does have some decent 2D drawing capacity as well.

For some rotary work there is a plugin to map a 2D toolpath to wrap onto a round surface.

For 3D machining, one would need a CAD program capable of outputting STL files.  Onshape might be a good option.

[Woodguy]

If you make money from it, then you should pay for it.


Some of you are comfortable with this second round of "bait and switch" but what happens in 3 years when the deal runs out?


Personally I don't do subscription services. I paid for  a 2 seat license for Alibre which is updated to December 2019 and that is my fallback though I confess to being a bit rusty in its use. The lack of integrated cam is unfortunate, but there are some alternatives and I will manage as I did before Fusion came along.




There is now a hint on the ME forum of something new in integrated cad/cam but so far only a hint. See the last post on this page: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=167916

[Woodguy]

Step files are back in the personal license - yipee!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7U5Pky6EIo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7U5Pky6EIo</a>