New mill, to me that is!

[Art K]

Hi everyone,
I have been very busy at work lately, but took of Thursday morning (that time was made up this morning) to pick up a mill. I had to drive to Milwaukee to pick it up. Not only did I have to borrow my sisters Jeep to pull the trailer, which was borrowed as well. All things considered I would have liked a bigger trailer and truck but you work with what you have. Here it is all loaded and ready to go.

Here it is parked inside the shop at work. This will be its new home (not this particular spot on the floor) since I don't have room for it at home.

It is a Clausing Kondia, Proto trak made in Spain. My friend who works in the tool and die industry in Milwaukee, got me the best friend deal. New owners were cleaning up shop and getting rid of old equipment, I got it for the price he would have payed if his garage ceiling would have been taller, think near scrap price. Almost embarrassingly cheap. My plan since I have no room at home, is to use it at work for parts I make. It will be nice to not have to count turns on the dial...It does seem to be a 3 phase motor and 110 volts for the rest of the electronics. Does anyone know anything about that. I think the mill we have now is 3 phase but I'm not sure, Can I get an inverter to supply 3 from single phase? Any thoughts.
Art

[steamer]

The Kondia's are good machines    I got to use a few about 20-25 years ago and they are every bit as good as the Bridgeports.
Ours was 3 phase as well.    A appropriately sized VFD will make that work just fine.     1.5 HP?.....hard to remember.

The ones I used had chrome ways.....I suspect yours does as well   Nice feature!

Dave

[Art K]

Dave,
I did take a photo of the motor tag but I don't know what some of it means.

Some of it is obvious RPM, C.V.=3 phase, 60 hertz, 230 460 volts. But the A.10 5 is that 10.5 or 105 or some other metric measurement I don't understand. If the amps is 10.5 that fits with the outlet plug which has 20 amps 250 volts printed in it The other one is P. 5 5 what does that mean? Is that 5.5 hp? That does seem to be a lot for its size But who am I to know anything about that. Oh yeah it does say hardened ways on it. I sort of felt bad when I put on the chains around the base to hold it in place, it chipped the paint, there were no chips before that. It was the machine my friend worked on.
Art

[bruedney]

"But the A.10 5 is that 10.5 or 105 or some other metric measurement I don't understand. If the amps is 10.5 that fits with the outlet plug which has 20 amps 250 volts printed in it"

10 amps at 230v or 5 amps at 480V

[Hugh Currin]

Art:

I just bought two variable frequency drives (VFD) one for my mill and one for my lathe. The mill is 2HP while the lathe is 5HP and both are 3 phase. The ones I obtained take in 220V single phase and put out the same voltage in three phase. The drive can vary the frequency to change the motors speed. Can also soft start the motor and looks like a lot more. I've hooked up the VFD to the mill but haven't delved into the options other than to make it work. So far very pleased. I think this is the best way to get 3 phase when it's not directly available. The ones I got are from Invertek.

If the shop where you're putting the mill has 3 phase power can you just use that? Does the mill also plug into the wall for 120V? I'd expect it to pull 120V power for controls from the 220V 3 phase input. My lathe had a transformer to get 120V for controls and coolant pump. I'd suspect your mill would likewise derive 120V power from the 3 phase input. If so just feed it 3 phase and it'll take care of itself.

Exciting times.

...It does seem to be a 3 phase motor and 110 volts for the rest of the electronics. Does anyone know anything about that. I think the mill we have now is 3 phase but I'm not sure, Can I get an inverter to supply 3 from single phase? Any thoughts.
Art

[Hugh Currin]

Art:

I think the CV is the same as HP. That matches the current rating of 10A at 220V (or 230v). It can be run at two voltages, 230v or 450v (if I'm reading 450 correctly) with corresponding current ratings of 10A or 5A. Is that reading 50 or 60 Hz? I don't know what "P." is (55?). Someone here will let us know. I can't see from the name plate if it's single or three phase. A look at the wiring should answer that question.

Let us know. Thanks.

I did take a photo of the motor tag but I don't know what some of it means.

[kvom]

Any two of three leads of a 3P 220V will have 110V.  Unless the plug wires go directly to the motor housing, I'd suspect that the electronics power is accommodated already.  Should be obvious when you plug it in if the electronics are live.

Assuming the spindle RPM is controllable, there should be a VFD or similar between the power cable and the motor.

Post a picture of the plug. 

[Art K]

Thanks everyone, The motor outlet is a stand alone one and only connects to the motor. There is a separate cord for the electronics. If the present mill in the shop is 3 phase it is hard wired to a box on the wall. I think I like the idea of an inverter then it can go anywhere.
Art

[Hugh Currin]

Having a separate 120V plug, I'd suspect some add on electronics, not originally on the mill. Is there a DRO? Looking more closely at the pictures it looks like there are motors on the X and Y motions. Are those power feeds?

To run with a VFD you'll need to find a 220v supply. More common in the shop than three phase, but not as common as 120v.

Minor mysteries. Good luck.

[Dave Otto]

ProtoTrak is a US company based in CA https://www.southwesternindustries.com/ so it would have been a conversion added to the mill.
Nice score Art! I'm sure that you will enjoy it

Dave

[Art K]

Dave,
Thanks, it was a good score, and an opportunity I couldn't turn down. And yes Proto Trak does look to be an add on. Some nice castings for brackets holding things.
Hugh,
Yes there is DRO on the mill I just don't remember the brand right at this point in time, I can look at it at work tomorrow. The place in the shop where I would like to put the mill is right next to the lathe which uses 220 volts as well. I would have to unplug one to use the other. There is also an outlet for 110 right next to it. It may be difficult to place there though due to where the forks have to be placed to pick it up. I would like to put leveling pads on the four corners but they are rubber on the bottom & I don't think they will slide on the floor. But with the 1/2 inch cold rolled steel plates provided with the mill, they may slide and could turn it 90 degrees to locate the mill where needed.
Fortunately it came with 18, R8 collets 1/8-7/8"plus a 1/2" drill chuck and most importantly the Proto Trak manual and two formatted 3.5" floppy discs to save programs onto. Fortunately this being the machine my friend ran if I have questions he will know the answer.
Art

[Don1966]

Art your motor calculates to be a 5 HP MOTOR. SO so size your inverter to that.  Nice mill by the way!


Don

[Art K]

Don,
Ah, the P. 5 5 means five hp in 230 and 460 volts. I think I will have to check out Invertek as Hugh suggested.
Art

[Art K]

Kurt,
Sorry I missed you asking me to post a picture of the plug. Here it is, in case you cant read it, it says 20 amps 250 volts.

Hugh,
The DRO is ACU-RITE. says accurate to .0002" I did find the Invertek website and they appear to be in my neck of the woods, some where between Milwaukee and Chicago. I will have to call from work I think or email.
Art

[Muzzer]

Any two of three leads of a 3P 220V will have 110V.  Unless the plug wires go directly to the motor housing, I'd suspect that the electronics power is accommodated already.  Should be obvious when you plug it in if the electronics are live.

No - any ONE of the phases will measure around 100V TO NEUTRAL. The 230V refers to the voltage from one phase to another. Certainly, that should become obvious when (if) you plug it in like that(!)

The simplest solution to running a VFD in a US house is to take the 110-0-110 feed from the breaker box and run the VFD between the 2 lives. That feed is normally used in the house for clothes driers, stoves / hobs - and the "split" kitchen receptacles that have been required by modern building code for some years now.

Split receptacles have both phases present (and neutral), with one phase powering one outlet and the other phase powering its twin. That's so you can run eg a kettle and toaster together from the same outlet without tripping the breaker. You can even get a 250V receptacle to replace the std 110V split receptacle if you want to use a plug to connect a 220V load.