Chris's Mann Wagon Build

[cnr6400]

Ethan's a good fit in the cab. His last name's not Oll, is it? 

Just noticed the shaft bearing hole in the trans housing behind the steer shaft and Ethan. Anything big and spinning end up coming out of that hole, that could interfere with the steer shaft or steering wheel? Just thinking ahead a bit, just in case.......

[ddmckee54]

Chris:

Regarding boring large objects on an itty-bitty lathe.  (I've got a Unimat and a Sherline so I know where you're coming from.)  Any chance you could set it up to line-bore vertically on your mill? I've seen you come up with some pretty ingenious set-ups.

Don

[crueby]

Ethan's a good fit in the cab. His last name's not Oll, is it? 

Just noticed the shaft bearing hole in the trans housing behind the steer shaft and Ethan. Anything big and spinning end up coming out of that hole, that could interfere with the steer shaft or steering wheel? Just thinking ahead a bit, just in case.......

Hey CNR,

The ends of the shafts from the transmissions dont move at all side to side, unless several somethings inside break!    The middle shaft has a long key on it, and there will be a set of gears on a 'tube' that slides on the key and shaft, to shift gears. There are three shafts/bearings down the side of the transmission - crankshaft up top, middle shaft with sliding gears, and lowest shaft that has the output gear and the chain sprocket to drive the rear wheels. The crankshaft will have a flywheel over on the 'passenger' side on the left - they put a cover over the flywheel so the passenger did not get pureed when going around a left corner!
Oh, and good to see your sense of humor is properly oiled up - never came close to thinking of that last name!      I had only used 'Ethan' since that is the name of the character, its part of the Penny Dreadful tv show (which I've never seen, but the figurine looked perfect for the truck).

[crueby]

Chris:

Regarding boring large objects on an itty-bitty lathe.  (I've got a Unimat and a Sherline so I know where you're coming from.)  Any chance you could set it up to line-bore vertically on your mill? I've seen you come up with some pretty ingenious set-ups.

Don

Hi Don - I've never tried any line-boring, but doing that on the mill would probably be more possible than on the lathe, the X/Y adjustment would be ideal for that sort of thing. Doing a 3" or 4" hole would really tax the rigidity of the Sherline though, wouldn't it? Probably be a whole lot faster to go the cylinder sleeve path, with stacks of brass plates. I'd want to hole-saw out the centers probably, would give me a couple stacks of discs usable for gears and things rather than 20 pounds of chips!Doing line boring does require a way to adjust the cutter distance from centerline, right? Some sort of screw advance, or just a set screw? Never looked into that tooling. Also, would need to get the hole started large enough to start line boring....   

[ddmckee54]

Chris:

I've seen the cutter adjustment done both ways, with an adjusting screw to adjust the cutter, and with a simple set screw that locked the cutter in place.  The Gingery Lathe book gave a good example of a simple line boring bar and how to use it.

Even if you use a pre-bored cylinder liner in a fabricated cylinder block of some sort, won't you still have to bore out the hole for the cylinder liner?

The old school engine boring bars that I've used, and seen used, had a frame that was bolted to the block centered over the bore.  The existing cylinder head bolt holes were used to mount the frame.  The boring bar slid up and down, and also turned, in bushings in the frame.  It was of a large enough diameter that flex was minimal.  Besides you're not trying to hog off large amounts of material, just bore out a few thou to a finished size.  I would imagine that really the low price boring bars didn't even have a motor, but were powered by an electric drill.  I've got my Dad's old Thor 1/2" drill that probably would have done the trick.  I think it turns at about 900RPM, and will about break your arm if the bit hangs up as it breaks through.

Don

[crueby]

Don,
I do have to bore the hole in the outer cylinder, but I am thinking that I could make that as a stack of plates, like 1/2" thick, that I could bore out on the faceplate (with the riser blocks on the lathe). Those parts would not need as fine a finish to the cut, plus it could be done with a shorter cutter with the cross slide up close. To bore out the full cylinder for a piston would require cutting a decent finish  four plus inches deep at a diameter around four or five inches. Doable, but not if I want a good finish on the sherline - it just doesnt have the oomph or the rigidity.
At this point I am just exploring alternatives - starting that build is months away at least. Fun thought experiments while waiting for paint to dry!
Chris

[cnr6400]

Hi Chris, just a thought, to avoid the 4"+ dia core out / boring - you could consider water jet cut plates for the stack. If you plan the job so you can leave it with a waterjet cutting shop, making it clear it is not a rush, just fit it in as time allows, and tell them what you are making, often you can get a very good deal. Waterjet gives clean, on-size cuts with no limitation on material or thickness. The local guy I use (for day job activities) can cut steel plates 4 x 10 feet and up to 9 inches thick for progressive die work - but has also cut 1/2" x 1/4" prototype parts in .005" shim stock, and pieces of polycarbonate for eyeglass lenses!

(with waterjet there is no issue with reflective materials like brass or aluminum as there is with laser cutting. With laser cutting the beam can reflect off such materials and damage the laser's focusing lens or the laser itself. Also with laser cutting there can be a super hard heat affected zone for a few thou back from the edge of the cut - waterjet cuts do not have this issue.)

[crueby]

Hi Chris, just a thought, to avoid the 4"+ dia core out / boring - you could consider water jet cut plates for the stack. If you plan the job so you can leave it with a waterjet cutting shop, making it clear it is not a rush, just fit it in as time allows, and tell them what you are making, often you can get a very good deal. Waterjet gives clean, on-size cuts with no limitation on material or thickness. The local guy I use (for day job activities) can cut steel plates 4 x 10 feet and up to 9 inches thick for progressive die work - but has also cut 1/2" x 1/4" prototype parts in .005" shim stock, and pieces of polycarbonate for eyeglass lenses!

(with waterjet there is no issue with reflective materials like brass or aluminum as there is with laser cutting. With laser cutting the beam can reflect off such materials and damage the laser's focusing lens or the laser itself. Also with laser cutting there can be a super hard heat affected zone for a few thou back from the edge of the cut - waterjet cuts do not have this issue.)

Now thats a neat idea! Thanks!

[crueby]

Some fun today - got the cab assemblies bolted onto the model (will need to remove the left side one to get working room on the transmission later). That and Ethan the driver let me trim the steering column to a good length:


Also made the cab steps...

Now, something I've been waiting for delivery on, I found an antique promotional mug on Ebay from a seller in Staffordshire, a Mann Patent Steam Wagon mug!

The elves love it, and have moved in...

Looks great with the model...

[cnr6400]

The wagon progress looks great! like the step and steering wheel fit. 

Re the shop elves- you kind of set them up for mugging for the camera this time....

Driver Mr Ethan Oll of Eagle Mountain Brewing looks content in the cab.

[crueby]

The wagon progress looks great! like the step and steering wheel fit. 

Re the shop elves- you kind of set them up for mugging for the camera this time....

Driver Mr Ethan Oll of Eagle Mountain Brewing looks content in the cab.

Ethan is sitting pretty still - I think he found a barrel of Eagle Mountain Stout in the storage room... The snoring is giving him away...

[kvom]

Left turn in traffic looks iffy. 

Did they have mirrors on the side?

[crueby]

Left turn in traffic looks iffy. 

Did they have mirrors on the side?

I haven't seen any mirrors in any of the old photos, could explain some of the photos of wrecks! Since there are no pedals for controls, the driver could stand while driving to look over the engine/transmission, and the ones without a tall cargo had windows in the back wall of the cab. If a passenger was on the left side, thier panicked scream would be a clue...

[deltatango]

Were steam wagons in the US left hand drive?

Comparing a steam wagon with a Model T leads me to the conclusion that pretty much everything else just had to keep out of the wagon's way. A "fender bender" with a Mann Wagon might leave a scratch or tow on the wagon but they'd be hard to find, as for the Ford...

David

[crueby]

Were steam wagons in the US left hand drive?

Comparing a steam wagon with a Model T leads me to the conclusion that pretty much everything else just had to keep out of the wagon's way. A "fender bender" with a Mann Wagon might leave a scratch or tow on the wagon but they'd be hard to find, as for the Ford...

David

Dont know about the left hand drive in US, would assume that was true by some point. I do know that Mann allowed the option to swap to left hand drive when ordering a machine, for countries where that was desirable.