Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).

[90LX_Notch]

I am really considering  buying one of the clones of a Deckle single lip cutter grinder.  I am looking for honest opinions of the Chinese clones that are available. 

I can really see a need for one of these in my shop.  It would be the first brand new machine that I have ever purchased and would be a large sum of money for me to layout.  I don't expect Deckle quality; but I don't want to completely remanufacture it either.  I don't mind tweaking a few bugs.


-Bob

[steamer]

Hi Bob,

I have a Gorton 265, which is a d bit grinder....it was built oh maybe the 40's.   It's a piece of honest American Iron!....but....some of that iron went somewhere else.

I know I will need to rework the workhead.    It's worn and has some slop.   Hard steel spindle in a cast iron bore....simple as a rock, just....originally....very well done.     Boring it out, and making a sleeve that fits the spindle ...is no small task.   I've done that for the quil on my SB, and it was not the easiest job.   Ultimately, I will need to lap the hole in to make the spindle fit correctly....it seems most of the wear is there.

The spindle bearings are OK....though I think they're obsolete....but not really sure on that point.

the rest of it is pretty good!....and I have a full set of Gorton collets   ( 9N's I think)

The point is, it's a project..   Lots of old American iron that were glorious in they're day, are now worn.   I choose to rebuild it....but that's just me

Now our friends from across the way have on many circumstances been described as suppliers of machine parts kits....in need of work.  A fair assessment as far as I can tell.

It probably uses far more readily available tooling, and the parts are cheap, and making a new part shouldn't be too hard if one needs too....as the investment is low.

Now the latest sentiment aside, which if you've watched the coverage, people are not that happy with our Neighbors across the way,  it's a kit of parts that with some effort gets you a capability that you may not otherwise have in the shop, go for it....

Personally, the Gorton will be getting some love from me, much like my SB9, though I don't know if there will be any difference between the 2 units when done.....but that's just me

Dave

[Dave Otto]

Hi  Bob

I have one that I purchased from Shars last fall, it is like the one that Robin Renzetti has. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o</a>
I don't plan to make all the modifications to mine that he did to his, but I have made a few.
Stefan Gotteswinter also has some videos featuring his d-bit grinder, you probably know this but if not, they are worth watching.
To see what these two guys do with these machines is quite an education.

Over all I'm pretty happy with my machine but like lots of Chinese machines there are areas that leave a little, or a lot to be desired. I haven't had much time to work on mine except to make a better Loc-Line light mount, Vacuum nozzle mount and the Renzitti tool to remove the wheels; I can post some photos if you are interested.
It is quiet and smooth  and for the most part all the adjustments all work pretty well. The dove tails on the tool head don't fit very good and could be improved on. One of the first things that I need to fix when I have some spare time is to make a new draw bar for the 5C collets, the threads on the one that came with it re pretty awful. The tool head doesn't swing a full 90 degrees so I need to set it up and lengthen the track so I can get the tool head in alignment with the spindle axis.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this machine is a good starting point and with a little tuning can be made into a good usable tool. The accessories that come with it probably won't get much use from me, I have a nice drill grinder, and I won't waste my time attempting to sharpen end mills. The lathe tool holder has some possibilities but would also need some mods to be very useful.

I looked at the machine form Grizzly but at twice the price and all the accessories were extra, I decided that the made in Taiwan wasn't worth the extra cost. Also I really wanted the 5C machine for the increased versatility from the range of available 5C collets. The Grizzly machine was if I remember only available with the Deckel style collets. Keep in mind that the 5C machine uses the internal thread for the draw bar.

If you would like to chat more about this send me a PM or we can do it here; and if you would like to see the mods that I have done so far to my machine let me know and I will take some photos.

Dave

[steamer]

Hi  Bob

I have one that I purchased from Shars last fall, it is like the one that Robin Renzetti has. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o</a>
I don't plan to make all the modifications to mine that he did to his, but I have made a few.
Stefan Gotteswinter also has some videos featuring his d-bit grinder, you probably know this but if not, they are worth watching.
To see what these two guys do with these machines is quite an education.

Over all I'm pretty happy with my machine but like lots of Chinese machines there are areas that leave a little, or a lot to be desired. I haven't had much time to work on mine except to make a better Loc-Line light mount, Vacuum nozzle mount and the Renzitti tool to remove the wheels; I can post some photos if you are interested.
It is quiet and smooth  and for the most part all the adjustments all work pretty well. The dove tails on the tool head don't fit very good and could be improved on. One of the first things that I need to fix when I have some spare time is to make a new draw bar for the 5C collets, the threads on the one that came with it re pretty awful. The tool head doesn't swing a full 90 degrees so I need to set it up and lengthen the track so I can get the tool head in alignment with the spindle axis.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this machine is a good starting point and with a little tuning can be made into a good usable tool. The accessories that come with it probably won't get much use from me, I have a nice drill grinder, and I won't waste my time attempting to sharpen end mills. The lathe tool holder has some possibilities but would also need some mods to be very useful.

I looked at the machine form Grizzly but at twice the price and all the accessories were extra, I decided that the made in Taiwan wasn't worth the extra cost. Also I really wanted the 5C machine for the increased versatility from the range of available 5C collets. The Grizzly machine was if I remember only available with the Deckel style collets. Keep in mind that the 5C machine uses the internal thread for the draw bar.

If you would like to chat more about this send me a PM or we can do it here; and if you would like to see the mods that I have done so far to my machine let me know and I will take some photos.

Dave

Couldn't agree more Dave.

[90LX_Notch]

Thanks Dave and Dave.

D.P.- I hear you.  All my machines are old U.S. iron.  I've never seen a single lip cutter around here for sale

D.O.- Thank you for your reply.  I have seen Robin and Stefen's video's amongst others.  It seems as though these machines are not too bad right out of the box for grinding single lip cutters.  The accessories seem to be a disappointment.  I'm really leaning towards getting one. 

-Bob

[gerritv]

Deckel just went bankrupt so the used prices will no doubt go up. Alexander and Kuhlman are similar brands and age. OTOH the clones sometimes offer benefits such as 5C collets. While the E355/U2 ones seem to be good quality from Aliexpress, it is yet-another-collet rack you need to fill.

I have an Alexander, I bought a 16mm collet, and a matching ER16 chuck so I can mount a larger variety of bits. I now do 4 facet grinds on drills as they dull, no extra fixture requied (See one of Stefan's videos). Luis Ally is another YT source for what a clone might look like and do for you.

To grind square lathe bits, fit either a square 5C collet or 3D print an holder to go from square to round in a 5C. With some iamgination you might not want or need the extras.

Overall I suspect they are all more than capable, this grinder style is underappreciated IMO.

Gerrit

[rklopp]

I have a Taiwanese Victek U2 single lip machine gathering dust. It is in good shape. I have 6 fractional collets to go with. I’d let it go for $250, but I don’t want to deal with shipping, especially under COVID. I am in the SF Bay Area California.

I have a Quorn which is more useful to me.


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[RonGinger]

I  have an Alexander but only a couple collets and no source for more. I have thought about fitting some kind of ER holder. Gerrit, could you explain a bit more about how you did that please.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Robin & Stefan's videos convinced me that I had to have one so I spoiled myself & bought the Shars 5C machine about a year ago.

I had a couple snags right away but the customer service lady (Katie) was fantastic.  On the initial order I had specified that a forklift was available at my workplace for offloading.  After delivery, my employer received a $75.00 "liftgate" surcharge and promptly took it out of my check.  FedEx denied my claim after some email "tennis" so I then emailed Shars cust service to report that issue plus the wheel hub retaining screw had been WAY over-torqued on my machine at the factory.  The hub taper was seized so tightly that I finally had to carefully slice almost through it with an abrasive cut-off wheel to get it off.  She immediately sent me another wheel hub (n/c) and took over with the FedEx problem.  A week or so later, my employer received a reimbursement check.

I removed the original lamp bulb with its wimpy 24v PS & changed it to a much brighter 110v LED bulb that fit the original fixture (old eyeballs).  I also added a 3/4" Loc-Line to position a custom vacuum hose nozzle.

I've since purchased a 5C to ER16 collet chuck holder for it, a couple different types of diamond and CBN wheels along with extra wheel hubs so the wheels could be mounted & balanced permanently.  The Shars hubs are cheap and are well built.  It's a great little machine IMO!  My only issue is that I have only had the time to use it 4 or 5 times. 

[90LX_Notch]

Thank you for the replies gentlemen.  Each of your inputs are helpful. rklopp, if you weren't 3000 miles away....

-Bob

[gerritv]

I  have an Alexander but only a couple collets and no source for more. I have thought about fitting some kind of ER holder. Gerrit, could you explain a bit more about how you did that please.

Hi Ron, I added some posts to my original Alexander 2CGD thread. Are your collets the smaller diameter ones? One option might be to make a collet, with the ER16 chuck as part of it.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9053.msg219251.html#msg219251

Gerrit

[DICKEYBIRD]

I remembered something this morning:  A table-top BBQ grille cover makes a great cover when the machine is not being used.  I got 2 of these from Amazon (got an extra for my Darex tap grinder).  Mine were a couple bux cheaper so a more thorough search may save you a dollar or two.   They fit great! https://www.amazon.com/Brinkmann-812-1100-S-Discontinued-Manufacturer-65234R3FA328979/dp/B01MA0DWVA/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=brinkman+tabletop+grill+cover&qid=1589131778&sr=8-4

[Apprentice707]

I have a Chinese made cutter grinder I bought from Warco (UK) some years back. I use it for grinding lathe tools (HSS) and occasionally buck up the courage to set it up to sharpen end mills. It is not an easy machine to master and I feel it is not value for money given the difficulty I encounter in setting it up. The manuals that are available are poor translations of the Chinese. I am lucky in so much as my wife is a Malaysian Chinese and is able to read and write the language. Technical Chinese is not easy to translate and her eyes glaze over as she isn't familiar with the present Chinese writing system.

It is a shame that the Chinese didn't put as much effort into producing a Clarkson or Quorn tool grinder look alike, it would have been easier to use.

Good luck to all users of a similar machine.

[gerritv]

You can easliy find the Deckel S0 and Alexander manuals. They are substantially better in quality and presentation of information.

[Hugh Currin]

Old post but still relevant. I'm on the verge of ordering a Shars "single lip cutter". Has anyone received one since the thread started? Reviews? Do you like the 5C collet system for this?

Dave: I'd sure like to see the mods you've done to yours. I think the mods Robin Renzetti did are amazing. However, I don't have the time, nor patience and skill, to pull that off. But a few of the ideas look quite doable.

I've been working on a Quorn/Bonelle/Deckel design off and on for some time. The Bonelle is a bar stock version of the Quorn with many bells and whistles added. I like the "simplicity" of the Quorn so have simplified the Bonelle. Also am adding a Deckel style (dove tails) work holder. The Quorn / Bonelle look to be hard to adjust for cutting a radiuses on a tool corner. I'll probably finish this design, but may not build it.

I've decided it would be best to buy a Chinese single lip cutter. Buying one seems advantageous because I can use it instead of make it a multi year project. The Shars version is available and has OK reviews.

Thank you for any insight or further help.