Chinese 7x 8x 9x Lathe Opinions

[crueby]

Chris, thank's for the comments on the Sherline. Do you know how it would compare to the 7x machines as far a working steel?

Never used one, so I don't know. Bill or Jim, how about you guys?

[Flyboy Jim]

Chris, thank's for the comments on the Sherline. Do you know how it would compare to the 7x machines as far a working steel?

Here's where you get to do your homework. Check out build threads by Chris (Crueby), Bill Lindsey, and myself for builds using Sherline equipment. Most of Zee's builds were done with his Harbor Freight equipment. Others have already chimed in and I'm sure others will follow.

There's a complete machine shop education on these pages. I'm a relative newcomer compared to the vast experience a lot of the folks have here and this forum has been a major contributor to my success.

Also, as you start your journey, keep asking questions along with the research you do. I'm looking forward to following along.

Jim

PS: The only lathe and mill I've ever worked with is my Sherline equipment and if I had it to do over again, I'd buy exactly the same equipment.

[Bear]

Jim, I am going to get busy with my homework. This is going to be interesting. By the way, what length Sherline lathe do you have?

[crueby]

I've got the longer version of the lathe and mill, plus taller column in the mill. Thats key on the mill, you use a lot of height for drill, chuck, rotary table, chuck on that, even before the part height.

[Flyboy Jim]

Jim, I am going to get busy with my homework. This is going to be interesting. By the way, what length Sherline lathe do you have?

Similar to Chris, except I still have the regular length mill table. The longer mill table is on my "short list".

I spent hours, early on, reading build threads. Very educational and entertaining. 

Jim

[crueby]

Some thoughts on the selection process:

Some things to keep in mind when looking at different lathe brands/models. Most will spec the length of bed and the max swing over the bed. However, you really need to look at the swing over the carriage, since that will limit the diameter of a part you can turn down the side of. If it wont clear the carriage, you cant cut farther in than the reach of the cutter.


On the length of the bed, keep in mind the thickness of the chuck, plus the size of the tailstock and what its holding. A two inch thick chuck, 4 inch long tailstock, 2 inch drill chuck, and a 3 inch long drill bit (all numbers pulled out of the air), eat up distance on a lathe bed pretty quick.

Another is the diameter of the hole through the headstock - it is very handy to be able to work on the end of a part by choking up on it, having just a little of it protruding from the chuck and the rest inside the headstock tube.

Related is the capacity of the chuck, how large a diameter it can hold in its jaws before the outer ends of the jaws hit the bed. At some point (except with a gap bed lathe) you will need to reverse the jaws in the chuck to hold a larger diameter part. With the jaws reversed, you are holding on the steps on the back side of the jaws, which is not quite as secure as the longer inside edges you are normally holding with.

On the mill, the travel of the table in both directions is as important as the length/width of the table, as is where the center of the spindle is - that reach is the limit of how big a part you can reach to the center of.

All comes down to what you want to be able to build, and what the largest parts on it are. At first you are best off starting with smaller/simpler engines, but look forward to what you want to work towards - nothing as frustrating as getting a year or three in, and finding your machines are keeping you from building what you want more than your skill/knowledge level is.

[Bear]

I will keep all that in mind, Chris. Thank's.

[ShopShoe]

Bear,

You seem to be where I was when I was shopping for my first lathe.

I was constantly wavering between the sherline and the 7x mini-lathe, but ended up choosing the 7x 12 mini lathe because it could cut threads. It was variable speed and it had a full range of forward and reverse for the work, forward and reverse for the lead screw. The capacity was also a little larger than the Sherline and I definitely can turn steel.

At that time, the price of the 7x was much lower (Mine was $300 on sale, and adding milling attachment and 4-jaw chuck to the order only added another $100.), which made the price difference a consideration against the Sherlines with desired accessories and the 9x lathes I might have also purchased.

Nowadays, I might be considering other options because the starting price of the 7x lathes is closer to the next largest machines. Perhaps I would be considering one of the 8.5x machines with slightly larger capacity and power cross-feed instead. I have listened to the chatter about the 9x18 Chinese lathes being less than solid where the tool mounting is concerned and that they can't cut left-hand threads (something I have needed).  The 9x18, etc. machines do have a threading gearbox, but is limited in thread options. (In all fairness, there are also lots of those out there and a large user base and lots of mods, etc.)

Note also that I still have the 7x and still covet something larger. I have modified and rebuilt the 7x many times and have been able to relay on suppliers like Little Machine Shop to keep it going.

Had I gotten the Sherline, I am sure I would also be very happy with it and would probably have made more precise parts from the beginning and have had more time turning and less time repairing and modifying.

I have to echo what has been said above: You will need to get accessories and they will add to the cost of your investment. I am sure we can all create our lists of  some of these things if you are interested.

--ShopShoe

[Bear]

Thank's for the response, ShopShoe. Which 7x lathe brand did you go with? I am still going back and forth, and now I am at the point where I am thinking I should buy the least expensive 7x that I can find, have money left over for improvements and accessories and then maybe a mini mill.

[Flyboy Jim]

I hear good things about Taig lathes and mills, so they might be worth taking a close look at.

Jim

[Barneydog]

Hi,
I have a Seig C3 which I have had for many years. It has been ok but always needs attention and adjustment. Gib adjustment is rubbish so years ago i built my own adjustable gib system which makes it easier and quicker. If you traet the lathe as a pre-assembled set of castings and as a starting point you will be ready for all the limitations of these machines. Mine now has control board faults which i now have to sort. Years ago i had the chance to buy a secondhand denford which i did. Much bigger and stronger, no electronics to fight and rock solid. I use both lathes but tend to favour the denford. Looking back i wish i had bought the best and strongest lathe i could afford. Instead i bought the C3 without too much shopping around. I am looking at replacing the C3 and possibly the densord ghis year with one good lathe probably costing £2000-£3000.
MY ADVICE.....GO TO AS MANY SHOWS AS YOU CAN AND FEEL THE QUALITY AND BUY THE  BEST YOU CAN. BUY THE BEST VALUE AND CAPABILITY YOU CAN NOT THE CHEAPEST.

Cheers jules

[ShopShoe]

Bear,

My 7x Mini-Lathe is a Cummins (Now ToolsNow.com).

As I said above, the pricing is now higher on these lathes accross the board and the landscape has changed.

I would buy a Grizzly now, as I have purchased several things from them, including my mill, and I have not been disappointed in service and stocking from them. Their 7x lathe is comparable and price is not the highest of the suppliers.

I would also consider something from Little Machine Shop, as I have found their service to be good.

I am not associated with either company, just a customer.

For Cheapest, If you have a Harbor Freight near you, you might see if they have their 7x on sale. You could also order online from them and have it shipped to your local store. They used to offer that, but I haven't bought from them for over a year.

Please note: The newer models of the 7x Mini-Lathe offer Brushless motors with more torque and continuously variable speed from low to high. That's one of the reasons for a higher price on them.  The SEIG C3 (Older Model) has a motor with brushes to mess with and a Low-High lever on the back to change gearing along with the variable speed control for the motor. The older model is what I have and I think I could do with a little more power. I have also had to adjust and lube the gears as part of maintenance rituals. Others have reported issues with the brushed motors and their control boards. I have been lucky not to have to deal with those issues.

On to Mills: Since you brought it up, you will have to spend considerably more on accessories and tooling for the mill than for the lathe so start looking at your budget. Vertical height between the table and the spindle must be considered, as your setup for some operations will need a lot of room. For that reason, I considered a mill larger than the mini-mill. You will also find that some milling operations need more power and more stability, particularly if you want to machine steel.

--ShopShoe

[Bear]

Thank's,Jules. I understand what you are saying; but, I am now most inclined to go with a 7 x 12 made lathe (that I believe is made by Seig) sold by Harbor Freight. It is relatively inexpensive. They provide a 90 day satisfaction guaranteed policy. Buying this inexpensive one will let me see how much I want to put into the hobby. If it becomes such that I need a bigger lathe, I can always either sell the small one, and buy a bigger lathe, or buy a bigger lathe and keep the smaller one as well.

Also, with the money saved, I may also be able to get a milling machine (one step at a time), extra accessories for the lathe. It is also my understanding that many of these mini lathes may need some tweaking. I would rather do the tweaking on a less expensive lathe than a more expensive 7x.

Also, I may not be correct, but are not the compounds on these 7x lathes all about the same in rigidity, which I understand may be the weak point in the chatter one may encounter?? If that is the case, then a stronger motor or more features may not be able to eliminate chatter. Again, not certain that this is  a correct analysis on my part. Of course, another issue with these mini 7x lathes is that they all weight about the same thus creating limitations. So, per your advice, this lathe may be the best value for me.

As to shows, I will have to see if there are any in my area.

[Bear]

Thank you, ShopShoe. I was typing the last post while you were posting yours. I have looked at the Grizzly 7 x 12, and it looks very similar to the Harbor Freight, but a little more expensive; but it comes with more accessories. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, HF has that 90 satisfaction guarantee which is in my opinion valuable. Also, the shipping is only around $7.00. There my be some other comments in my post that might address some of what you mentioned.

[Bear]

Update. Still looking; I know there are Sherline owners here. How does the Sherline compare and contrast to the Taig. I sure would like to be able to see one of these in person to be able to visualize the size. Actually, I would like to see them in action in person.

I would like to be able to make model engines that require very tight tolerances  that I understand either of these lathe has the ability to undertake.  Basically, I desire precision over size; but, with the ability to make decent sized model engines.