Author Topic: One man's trash is another man's treasure  (Read 1574 times)

Offline TerryWerm

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One man's trash is another man's treasure
« on: June 06, 2020, 09:01:05 PM »
While working on a customer site out in South Dakota, I stumbled on a cast iron six spoke pulley about 18 inches in diameter, and weighs 40 pounds or so. During my first look at it, my first thought was, of course that it would make a beautiful flywheel as it has straight spokes that have rectangular depressions cast into them. It mounts to the shaft using a split-taper bushing which happens to be missing, but that is no big deal, they are easy to get. Anyway, I had the thought of designing an engine around the flywheel, but decided to leave it behind as I don't need another piece of iron cluttering up the garage. After more thought, I think I may just bring it back home with me next week. If I choose to get rid of it, I can always sell it for scrap. Photos forthcoming after I get back on site next week.

I am thinking that it would work great for a steam engine, and have given thought to a larger version of the MEM Corliss or maybe to an older design, such as a long stroke horizontal mill engine. The Corliss with a releasing valve gear and governor would greatly reduce the volume of steam or compressed air needed to run it for display compared to a mill engine with a cutoff predetermined simply by its design.

The MEM Corliss has a bore and stroke of 1.125" x 1.5" and I believe that doing a simple doubling of the plans or maybe 2.5 times original size to a bore and stroke of about 2.75" x 3.75 would be about perfect. The most daunting part would be the shear weight (over 50 lbs. before boring) of the cylinder block if made in that size. The guide and crankshaft support would also present some engineering challenges and would definitely have to be fabricated. I do have access to larger equipment than my own if necessary, but I believe that my own equipment would handle all of the parts except the base and the guide and crankshaft support.

Naturally, if I pursue this project, which I find very tempting, it will take me a while to scale up the drawings, but it would give me something to do in the evenings when I am out of town for work.

I just realized that a finished engine of this size would take two men and a small boy just to move it around! Building a copy of the MEM Corliss in its original size first might be advantageous as well. I have previously built a few smaller engines, though they were before I became a member here.

Any thoughts or advice before I even consider such a project?
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline crueby

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Re: One man's trash is another man's treasure
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 09:54:26 PM »
That would make for a very impressive model! You must have a much larger lathe/mill than I do....

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: One man's trash is another man's treasure
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 11:17:55 PM »
I personally only have a 10" Logan lathe, a Clausing 8520, and another horizontal/vertical mill of similar size (no idea what make it is, no name on it), but I do have access to a 36" Warner & Swasey lathe and a Bridgeport with a 10 x 54" table. I believe they would be up to the task.

I am not worried about being able to do the machine work, but rather how much waste I will create machining some of the parts for that engine in a manner that they would be done at the original plan size. For example, the crosshead guide would involve so much waste when machining from solid as to hardly make it feasible. So, I might have to figure out some other way to manufacture that part. Same with the block. I also don't think it would be worthwhile to make patterns and have the parts cast in iron at a foundry, at least not for one off items. The cost would be horrendous. I might be able to make the crosshead guide in two pieces,  but finding the necessary tube in the right size and thickness might be very difficult, especially for such a short piece.

There are many things to consider when scaling up an engine like this, which is why I brought it up. I think it would make a great discussion. Oh, and I am always open to advice!
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline 10KPete

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Re: One man's trash is another man's treasure
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2020, 12:50:01 AM »
Flywheel for a: Shaper, Punch press, wheel for a bump press, ....... ???

Pete
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline Mcgyver

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Re: One man's trash is another man's treasure
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2020, 11:49:18 AM »
There are many things to consider when scaling up an engine like this,

Two more to think about; where are you going put it, and secondly making big parts is more expensive and tedious than small parts.  The guys in the plant gave me homework last weekend, 3.5" bores in iron bushing made from cast bar.....8 of them.  What a bore! (haha, inadvertent pun)  It took forever.  Everyone's different but for me, the fun is solving the puzzle and the accomplishment having it come out correctly....sitting there for 6 hours making chips on the same operation is just tedium. 

And where do you put it?  I've a large Corliss project- 16" flywheel, 2" bore, 4" stroke.  If you make to correct proportions (they're a long engine) it gets quite large.  I picked this one up partially built (no plans) and hope to finish it....then what?  I'd need a mantle like this to put it on lol


Offline TerryWerm

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Re: One man's trash is another man's treasure
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2020, 04:18:30 PM »
Heck, I figured I could come over and keep it on that mantle of yours.   :Lol:     But you do bring up a valid point that most probably never consider. In my case, it would probably get added to the club collection at our local threshing association. It could run on steam three days a year and get laid up the rest of the time.

Yes, machining large parts can be tedious, to be certain, and the part that worried me the most in that regard was the crosshead guide, but I figured out a way to make it from four separate pieces. Boring the cylinder block from solid would be right up there too, so it would be best made from a casting for which the pattern and core would be quite simple. Not to mention that the weight of such a model would make it difficult to move around. I am at that age where building something in hernia scale does start to give one second thoughts. Building a live steam locomotive would be heavy, but at least it is on wheels!

Another issue is the flywheel made from a pulley. In the end it looks like...  well...  a pulley!  Not to mention that it would be mounted on a QD bushing that is proportionally way too big to look proper on the rest of the model.    Martin Model & Pattern has a 16" diameter six spoke, cast iron FLYWHEEL available for $130.  It would be money well spent if a person were serious about a model of such proportions. Additionally, compared to the cost for the rest of the materials for a model that size, the Martin flywheel casting would be cheap.

I do have to admit that I find it highly unlikely that I will tackle such a project, though it has been fun figuring out solutions to a few of the challenges that have come up thus far. Would it be impossible?  No.  Practical?  No again.

I do have the MEM Corliss on my "to build" list, in fact it is right at the top, but there are home repair and remodel projects that currently have a higher priority. When I start to have more shop time available, it will be better spent working on the smaller parts of the MEM Corliss rather than on the comparatively huge parts of the larger model. 

Many thanks for the input!
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

 

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