Author Topic: Workshop heating  (Read 8098 times)

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2019, 08:56:27 PM »
Mike you can get some very powerful quality Power Supply Units (PSU) from China at very good prices - I have an 48V 500W unit for CNC - and I'm sure it will be easy to find a 12-14.4 Volt one (a fully charged battery is 13.8V-14.4V) up to at least 1000W. So no battery needed - unless you want a completely uninterruptible system ....

Per

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2019, 09:13:19 PM »
Good evening Per,

I was looking at those, made in China, mains powered PSU's to eliminate the need for a battery. I was hoping the Michelko could give me an idea as to the current required. There is no need to overkill the size and cost of the PSU by guessing. I found several  6 amp (75 watt) units at reasonable prices. I just wanted to check if these would be adequate for the heater. I have just sent this question to the seller, they should know and should answer quickly.

I can see no need for an uninterruptible heating system.  :ROFL: If the electrical power fails; the lights go out and the machines stop, so I go indoors to reset the breaker and have a nice cup of tea.

Cheers

Mike
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 09:27:31 PM by Vixen »
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Offline michelko

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2019, 07:33:53 AM »
Hi Mike,
i shot some photos from the Installation so far. Will clean up this a bit after the testing Phase.
The heater draws some amps while starting and shuttuing down because of the glow plug.
Internet Research say arround 10 amps max. Ithink 6 amps are not enough
While These led Drivers are dirt cheap i purchased a 30 Amp , just to be on the save side.
While starting the voltage Drops to 11.3 V then goes up to 11.8V during normal Operation.
So far i fired 5l diesel without a Problem. Lets see how it performs in the future.
Obviously the exhaust has to go out the room. so i drilled a hole into the wall and hit the rainsill pipe hidden in the wall.
So i had to break up the wall and repair the pipe. Just be carefull where to make holes :(



Regards Michael

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2019, 09:51:35 AM »
Good morning Michael

Than you for taking the installation photos and for getting back to me. Everything is now a lot clearer and easy to understand.

I have also been searching the internet and also discovered the need for 10 amps (for several minutes) to drive the glow plug during start up and shut down. You have solved that requirement problem with the 30 amp LED driver from China. I will order one today.

I intend to mount the fuel tank on an outside wall, I smiled when I discovered where your fuel tank was installed. I also saw your reflection in another photo. Bad luck to hit the rain water pipe, I will be carefull.

Thanks again, I will report back with my diesel heater adventures in the New Year

Mike
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Offline Jo

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2019, 10:15:54 AM »
 :thinking: Would that work with 28 second burning oil rather than Diesel. It is a lot cheaper to buy.

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline michelko

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2019, 10:16:20 AM »
Hi Mike,
this is are realy nice chinese parts and not so bad quality. It was nearly just plug and Play.
we will see how Long it will stay functional.

Regards Michael

Offline michelko

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2019, 10:19:03 AM »
Off Course Burning oil will work as ist nearly the same material.
I also did a testrun with vegetable oil (ca. 0,5l with a bit gasoline) and that worked also nice.
The smell is a bit different but it ran without Problems. Don´t know how this will affect the Burning chamber.

Regards Michael

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2019, 03:40:31 PM »
:thinking: Would that work with 28 second burning oil rather than Diesel. It is a lot cheaper to buy.

Jo

Is that the same as kerosine or paraffin oil? Where can I buy it in small 4 litre cans? Most suppliers of heating oil have a minimum order of 500 litres, at the cheap price.

MIke
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 04:27:02 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Jo

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2019, 04:25:36 PM »
No, it is central heating oil and I have about 200 litres of it in containers where my tank sprung a leak 2 years ago  :thinking:

There are normally minimal order volumes from the guys with the tankers who deliver it.

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2019, 04:32:14 PM »
Thanks Jo,

Most central heating oil suppliers have a minimum order of 500 litres. Then it works out to be about half the price of pump diesel

However, in smaller quantities (4 litre cans) it appears to be far more expensive, like twice the price of pump diesel.

Mike

« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 08:02:36 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2020, 05:55:22 PM »
My Chinese 5kw Diesel burning heater which was ordered off E-bay ( £120 ish ), arrived just after Christmas. These diesel heaters are intended for motorhomes, trucks, boats etc and run off either 12 volt or 24 volt supplies. I followed Michelko's advice and also ordered a 12 volt, 30 amp LED driver PSU from E-bay (£16 ish).

The heater comes as a complete kit with most everything you need for the installation including hose clips and ty-raps. The installation was quick and straightforward, the only extras needed were a 30 mm core drill to drill trough the brick wall to vent the exhaust pipe outside the workshop and 80 mm hole saw for the hot air trunking.

As I said the installation was straightforward, in fact I did it twice.

My first attempt was to install the complete heater and hot air trunking out of the way in the loft space above the workshop. You can see the heater, the PSU and the long flexible aluminium trunking to take the hot air to discharge vents in the ceiling, at either end of the workshop.

The Exhaust pipes, heater unit and the hot air trunking give off plenty of heat. I also noticed there was a significant difference in temperature of the air ducting along their length. All this heat was being lost into the loft space, and was not contributing the workshop temperature. It should have been obvious, I suppose, but I did not have any previous experience to guide me.



To improve the workshop heating efficiency I moved the whole installation from the loft into the workshop itself, The cable loom and the fuel line were passed through hole in the ceiling and did not need to be disturbed. In all it was about half a days work. At the moment I have only a short length of hot air trunk leading to a tee piece. The hot air is directed to either end of the workshop. Time will tell if I need to add some additional trunking to improve the hot air distribution.






The Start up sequence is controlled by a single button press in the control panel. The Start up sequence takes about five minutes. It starts with power being applied to the glow plug, after a minute the fuel pump starts to deliver fuel. The fuel ignites and the heater ramps up to temperature; when stable the electrical power is removed from the glow plug which then remains hot due to the combustion process. Following the automatic start up process, the heater then adjusts the fuel flow to meet the demands of the thermostat setting, which can be increased or decreased by button pressing.

The Shut down sequence is also automatic with another button press on the controller. The fuel flow is increased for a short duration and the electrical power oa again applied to the glow plug, to burn off any soot etc.. Then everything shuts down and gradually cools.

In addition to thermostatic control, there is a second operating mode, where by you can directly control the fuel flow to the burner. It is possible to set the pump pulse rate as low as 1.6Hz, which consumes fuel at 0.11 litres/hour and produces approx 900 watts of heat. The flow rate can be increased in progressive steps up to a max pulse rate of 9.3 Hz, which consumes fuel ar 0.64 litres/ hour producing 5.0 Kw of raw heat. I find this Fuel Flow Mode give you best control of both the heating and fuel economy. It seems that after an initial higher power warm up phase, the workshop temperature can be maintained by reducing the fuel flow rate to give somewhere between 1.0 to 1.5 Kw of heat.

The real test will come during the cold months of February and March.

BTW, the instruction leaflet, which comes with the kit, is worse than useless. However there are many, many "How to do It" videos available on You Tube to help with the installation and the all important control unit.

Mike
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 06:47:41 PM by Vixen »
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Offline RayW

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2020, 03:22:52 PM »
I am pleased to report that the dehumidifier that I installed in my workshop a few weeks ago has really proved effective, with no rust re-appearing after several weeks on any of the bare metal surfaces, or on the test pieces of metal. I have two nice adjustable angle plates, both of which had rusted previously. I cleaned up one as one of the test pieces and there has been no evidence of rust on it since the dehumidifier started operating.
Ray

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2020, 07:51:04 PM »
Nice to hear that both you and Mike has improved the climate of the workshop  :ThumbsUp:

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2020, 04:46:32 PM »
Here is an short update on the performance and reliability of my Chinese diesel workshop heater.

When it works, it works very well. It can be set at a high output (equivalent to 4 to 5 kw) to quickly warm the entire workshop, then it can be throttled back to less than 1kw to maintain the temperature. They are quite noisy at the higher power setting, less so at the lower heat settings, however this is not much of an issue due my advancing deafness.

Fuel consumption is modest at the lower settings, even so, it is a chore to have to fill jerry cans at the local filling station and pay vehicle tax on the auto diesel. The heaters are supposed to work well on domestic heating oil but the 500 litre minimum order for home delivery, rules that fuel out.

Reliability is another matter. I have had to replace the 12 volt PSU which blew it's brains out during the summer. The original fuel pump stopped working after only a few months. The replacement fuel pump was good for a month or two and has also started to stick, resulting in a burner flame out and no more heat. I increased the supply voltage from 12.5 volts (equivalent to a good car battery) up to 14 volts (equivalent to a battery being charged). This increased the current supplied to the pump from 2.4 amps to 2.9 amps. The increased current coaxed the fuel pump back into life but the improvement was short lived; just a day or two. Now the second fuel pump is non functional.

Replacement pumps  for these diesel heaters are relatively inexpensive (£10 ish) and readily available on e-bay. But there are times when I wish you could pay a little extra and get a higher quality product. These Chinese diesel heaters are a copy of a well respected German design. A replacement fuel pump from the German manufacturer costs about eight times that of the Chinese copy, almost as much as I paid for the complete Chinese heater.

Have any of you diesel heater users had similar pump reliability problems and have you found a trustworthy supplier of replacement diesel heater fuel pumps?

Mike
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 06:40:03 PM by Vixen »
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Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2020, 06:28:17 PM »

Reliability is another matter. I have had to replace the 12 volt PSU which blew it's brains out during the summer. The original fuel pump stopped working after only a few months. The replacement fuel pump was good for a month or two and has also started to stick, resulting in a burner flame out and no more heat. I increased the supply voltage from 12.5 volts (equivalent to a good car battery) up to 14 volts (equivalent to a battery being charged). This increased the current supplied to the pump from 2.4 amps to 2.9 amps. The increased current coaxed the fuel pump back into life but the improvement was short lived; just a day or two. Now the second fuel pump is non functional.

Replacement pumps  for these diesel heaters are relatively inexpensive (£10 ish) and readily available on e-bay. But there are times when I wish you could pay a little extra and get a higher quality product. These Chinese diesel heaters are a copy of a well respected German design. A replacement fuel pump from the German manufacturer costs about eight times that of the Chinese copy, almost as much as I paid for the complete Chinese heater.

Mike

A little more on the diesel heater unreliability story. Winter is here and I need heat in the workshop.

So I bought a third fuel pump. It ran nicely for a few hours but would not start the next morning, just like the previous pumps

Time to stop and think  :thinking:

The three pumps had all run successfully then suddenly failed to pump. Three identical mechanical failure was too much of a coincidence. Was there a common denominater........Could my problem be the Diesel fuel itself. I had heard about diesel fuel developing waxy deposits which could block filters and stop trucks engines in realy cold conditions -10*C to -20*C, but we were nowhere near that, typically 0*C. I also discovered that they refineries change the ingredients in their diesel fuel according to the season to prevent the waxing problem. I had filled up my storage tank during the summer with 'summer' Diesel oil. Could that be a contributing problem??

The diesel heater's fuel pump is solenoid operated and squirts the fuel in small pulses controlled by the heaters micro controller. It is not a very powerful pump, unlike the motor driven pumps used on motor vehicles and was therefore more likely to stop functioning earlier if the fuel became thick and waxy.

I experimented and used a hot air gun to thoroughly heat the fuel pump, filter and exposed pipework inside the workshop in the hope it would melt any waxy deposits and thin the diesel oil. Success, the fuel pump stated ticking away supplying fuel to the heater, which fired up and stated producing warm air. After a few minutes the fuel pumps ticking sounded labored and eventually it stopped yet again. Been there several times before. But this time I noticed the incoming fuel from the outside tank was icy cold.

Sounds like I have found the cause for the heater unreliability. 'Summer' diesel fuel becomes too thick (due to waxing) to be pumped by these small solenoid fuel pumps. I need 'Winter grade'diesel in the storage tank, not 'Summer' grade. I then recalled a trick used by our NATO colleagues over in Norway. They often add a very small quantity of ISO propyl Alcohol (IPA) to their diesel fuel in the field, which supposedly reduces waxing even at extremely low temperatures. I have now added 5ml of IPA to each 5 litres to the 'summer'diesel fuel in the storage tank, that's only 0.1% IPA.

So far, it seems to have 'fixed' the fuel.  Only time and more cold nights will tell. Better go and buy some 'Winter' diesel and have the IPA ready, just in case.

Stay in and stay safe

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

 

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