candelabra, spinster, updates, and whatever else I think of

[zeeprogrammer]

Hi all. It's been a while.

I just wanted to provide a little update and ask a question about my latest wild hair...

As most of you know, I had surgery a few months ago to remove part of my liver that had atrophied due to an old injury. I'm fully recovered from that.
Next step is surgery on my shoulder but that won't be for a few months. I can't lift my arm in one direction. Doc says bone spur and calcium deposits.

You may also recall that while I was in the hospital, my grandson was born just down the hall from me.
When it was time for daughter to go back to work, we offered to provide daycare during the week. As much of a joy as it is, it feels like I'm back to work and looking forward to weekends off.  This will continue for several months.

I did manage a little machining. Miniature candelabras I'm giving the kids for Christmas. Picture attached.
I need to rework a part or two to remove some machining marks.
They could have been made from a single bar of 1.25" brass but I opted to make them out of parts. Partly to reduce the waste but also because I don't have the skills (yet) to make cutters for the round parts. So it was mainly turning, filing, threading, and tapping.

As for the wild hair...some of you may recall my Spinster project (a metal spinning wheel). I'm thinking of doing another larger (better) model.
The issue is the brass rim. A plate of brass of the required size is on the order of several hundreds of dollars.
One possibility is to buy an appropriate flywheel but I'm concerned about the look and I worry that unless it's brass, it's not heavy enough.
Another approach is to build it out of segments (I think Chris did a similar thing for his Marion).
I like the segment approach. I can do a similar thing as the original spinster with the hub and spokes.

What are the chances I can make it run true? Any other suggestions?

I have my doubts I could actually spin yarn or even spin threads together to make a larger thread. It's basically a dual-finger treadle but pulling the thread through and spinning the bobbin is likely too much. A backup idea is to mount the thing on a box with a motor inside and linked to the pedals. It may at least move properly then.

Again, this may just be a wild hair and end up as another unfinished project (like the Monitor, the Popcorn, et.al.). But it's fun in any case.
More likely I may do a couple of finger treadle engines for next year's Christmas (a more likely project for success). 

So hello again. I hope to keep a better presence. Perhaps I can live up to Chris's statement...I quote..."Ah, Zee has ruined us all...!    "

[b.lindsey]

Good to hear from you Zee. The candlesticks are lovely and I am sure will be much appreciated.

So what size flywheel would the larger spinster require? A segmented one could be made to run true if it's machinable once fitted together, but depending on size, a cast one may be a good option as well. Once we know the diameter, I know someone can point you toward some cast ones.

Bill

[mklotz]

Fill a brass tube with lead, bend into circle, and use that as the rim of the flywheel.  A copper tube would do as well and provide a color variation; copper might be easier to bend.

It's nice to see you back; I need a target foil for my sarcasm.

[crueby]

Neat spinner!  The segmented flywheel I did is on my Mem corliss thread. Worked out well.


Hope they get all your bits remachined and working again soon!

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Bill.

I don't have exact dimensions yet but I'm thinking 8" diameter and a 1/2" rim width (all -ish).

I have to do some drawing of other parts to see if the scale is workable. The smallest parts are the rings that are mounted on the flyer. Most likely they will be made from wire but I'm not sure how they'll be attached. Perhaps glued.

I'm hoping to make it look like a real spinning wheel. The original model is too blocky and the legs should be at an angle to the base. The spinning wheel is a major component and I want it to look really nice. I was fairly happy with the looks of the original but it can certainly be better.

Materials will be brass, aluminum, and stainless steel.

Just saw some new posts...

Thanks Marv. Keep in mind there is a groove along the rim to hold the belt that spins the spinner. Your sarcasm is most welcome. It helps people work their brains to produce come-backs. 

Thanks Chris. I'll check that out.

P.S. I saw a thread earlier about MadModder and some concerns about security. I've just noticed a 'Not secure' message next to the sites URL.

[Kim]

Hi Zee,
Great to hear from you!
Nice candle holders!  Thats a great idea!
Kim

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Kim.

You posted while I was catching up on your A3 thread. A very enjoyable read and good learnings for me.

Trying to catch up with everybody is impossible. There is so much great and interesting work here.
I don't mean to leave anyone out...but it's hard when I have just minutes at a time. (Even today I was surprised to find myself taking care of grandson.)

I was also reading Chris's Marion Valve Winding Engine thread.

I'm having no luck finding Chris's Stanley Steamer project. I know he promised so it must be here somewhere. 
If anyone can point me to it...I'd appreciate it. 

(He forgets I'm not that far away...and I personally know some of his elves.)

[crueby]

.......


I'm having no luck finding Chris's Stanley Steamer project. I know he promised so it must be here somewhere. 
If anyone can point me to it...I'd appreciate it. 

(He forgets I'm not that far away...and I personally know some of his elves.)

You forgot the alternate universe I live in (with the 37 hour days for better productivity). Over HERE it has been posted, but it wont show up in your silly universe for a while!   
And good, those double-agent elves have infiltrated your shop.   Muwhahahahaha!

[Art K]

Zee,
I knew there was a reason I was missing your banter. It's good to hear you are doing well after your surgery. And anxiously awaiting the next. A little sarcasm is good for the soul. Looks like you have some great projects going.
Art

[wagnmkr]

Would polished aluminum suit as a wheel rim? If you went with the 8" or so diameter, the mass would be there to keep up the spinning momentum. If the aluminum was polished it could be a nice contrast to the rest of the piece. Your double treadle arrangement would easily keep it all going.

Tom

[bent]

Wondering if you could bend a brass U-channel to form the rim.  Would need a set of rollers that would hold the sides true, unless you were okay with splayed legs.

[Flyboy Jim]

I was thinking a person could cut segments out of 1/4" sheet and then laminate two thicknesses together, staggering the joints and pinning them with brass rod. Much like a wooden wheel would be built.  Pockets for the spokes could even be milled into the segments before assembly. In fact the hub and spokes could be assembled and then the rim assembled over the spokes. 

Jim

[crueby]

I was thinking a person could cut segments out of 1/4" sheet and then laminate two thicknesses together, staggering the joints and pinning them with brass rod. Much like a wooden wheel would be built.  Pockets for the spokes could even be milled into the segments before assembly. In fact the hub and spokes could be assembled and then the rim assembled over the spokes. 

Jim

Sounds like that would work well. Good use for the rotary table.

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks all. Some interesting ideas.
I do want to stick with brass for both the inertia and looks.
I hadn't thought about staggering the joints. I need to think on that.

Daughter is bringing her spinning wheel over in a couple of days to let me take measurements. But it probably won't be until next year that I can start.

[Flyboy Jim]

I was thinking a person could cut segments out of 1/4" sheet and then laminate two thicknesses together, staggering the joints and pinning them with brass rod. Much like a wooden wheel would be built.  Pockets for the spokes could even be milled into the segments before assembly. In fact the hub and spokes could be assembled and then the rim assembled over the spokes. 

Jim

Sounds like that would work well. Good use for the rotary table.

I love my rotary table. I can't help but think that the world would be a better place if everyone had a rotary table...................or maybe a banjo! 

Jim

[kvom]

Glad to see you back at it.  Just had some surgery myself so sympathies there.   

FWIW, candelabras have more than one light.  That's a candlestick. 

[ShopShoe]

Spinning Wheel---

I seem to remember that Popular Science or Popular Mechanics ran a story on how to build and operate a Spinning Wheel somewhere in the 1960s or early 1970s. All of those old issues are online. I just mention that as maybe that lead goes nowhere or is not what you wanted. Anyway, I seem to remember that.......

I designed a brass flywheel that used segments in order to make it affordable, but I haven't made it yet. I think it should be workable.

--ShopShoe

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks guys.

FWIW, candelabras have more than one light.  That's a candlestick. 

 

Home from a trip back home.  Went down to Missouri to help my sister empty our parents' home. They've moved into a retirement facility.
Brought back loads of memorabilia and genealogy information.
I'm fortunate that I still have my folks and they are doing well enough that I can expect to enjoy them for some years to come.
Dad turns 93 this month and Mom is 91.

I've just about finished drawing the prototype spinning wheel.
Then I'll start on drawing a 1/3 scale model. However, I intend to modify it extensively so it appears more '19th century industrial engine'.
I'll post pictures once I have that. Might be a little while. Holidays are here and surgery on my shoulder is coming up.

The attached picture is where I'm at with the prototype drawing. I probably won't go much further.
It's missing one pedal, the bobbin, and the screw that adjusts the maiden for tension.
Part of the reason I won't finish it is because the Pittman Rods (?) connect to the pedals with a flexible tube and I have no clue how to draw that up.

As for the 1/3 scale model...

Imagine railings around the base that supports the flywheel.
Imagine the legs are more like a slanted plate with inner portions cut out.
Imagine steps leading from the bottom to the base and more steps leading from the base to the maiden.
Imagine some small scale people working on the machine.
Imagine oil cups on the posts holding the flywheel.
That kind of thing.
I also hope to set it on a box with a motor inside connected to a pedal from underneath. It should then be able to drive the system.
I hope.

[crueby]

Glad your trip went well, and you made sure to get the geneology papers, that can be irreplaceable if lost!

The spinning wheel project is looking good, I like the steampunk-style version with the little workers - maybe thats how Isambard Brunel wove his anchor cables!

[propforward]

Glad to hear from you Zee, and best wishes with all recovery. The candelabras look great!

[Art K]

Zee,
Good to see you back at it. How big a piece of brass are you talking about for the spinning wheel?
Art

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks guys.
I've started drawing the model but it will be very slow going since it's more design (change) than scaling the prototype.
There's some features of Cubify Design I have to learn (or get better at). Namely placing new axes and planes at various angles.
I don't expect to start machining until Spring.

How big a piece of brass are you talking about for the spinning wheel?

The prototype is 18" diameter and 1" width.
I'm trying to scale to 1/3.
So the flywheel should be 6" diameter by .333". I suspect I'll use .375". Neither dimension being critical...it's about looks.

I can't scale everything by 1/3. For example, the prototype crank is 3/8 rod. Scaling to 1/8 seems a bit small.

I've been trying to catch up with everyone but not saying much. What could I add? But there's certainly a lot of interesting and excellent work going on.

[zeeprogrammer]

Slow going. Holidays, providing daycare for new grandson, etc. etc.
Here's a couple of 'very' in-progress drawings.
Hopefully they give a flavor of what I was talking about earlier...or as Chris put it...'steam-punk-ish'.
Proportions on several parts are wrong and many things to work out but it hopefully gives you an idea of where I'm going.
Changing the scale is difficult. The flywheel is 6" diameter and I don't want to go larger. Making it smaller is obviously an issue too.

Any suggestions, ideas, positive criticisms are most welcome.

There's a number of difficulties...

1) I want oil cups and I'm hoping a 1/4" diameter glass is do-able. Not shown are oilers (amongst many other parts) on the bearings holding the spinner.
2) The base for the spinner has to be able to move up. The prototype used a hinge which I don't want. The distance needed is very small. Enough to provide tension on the string (not shown) while allowing the string to be removed from the whorl and bobbin. This is currently the most difficult problem.
3) The spinner posts are interesting. The front one has to tilt up and down. The right one has to have a slot so the flyer can lift up. But I'm thinking on an alternative. I expect many changes.

Once I have the parts properly drawn up I'll start a thread.
I suspect it won't be until March before I begin machining. (Shoulder surgery in January, recovery in February, and another trip home to visit the folks.)

[crueby]

I like it, the conrods to the treadle are a neat touch.




Small diameter glass tube is readily available from boiler sight glasses. Easy to cut to length by scoring with a file.




For adjusting the height, how about a threaded rod under the platform, raise with a nut.




Looking forward to seeing you start on making chips!

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Chris.

For adjusting the height, how about a threaded rod under the platform, raise with a nut.

That's along the lines I'm thinking but I'm thinking it requires at least two screws.
I've also considered a scissors kind of operation. A couple of guys (elves) turning a wheel that lifts the whole thing up.
Maybe have the screws connected by chain so turning one turns the other.
We'll see.

[zeeprogrammer]

Attached is an image of (what I believe is called) the maiden.
On the left are two spools (simulating those large spools of wire the utilities use) which will feed thread into the left end of the flyer, through that hole you see in the flyer's rod, to an eyelet and then the bobbin.

The flyer assembly tilts up (as shown) so the whorl can be removed and then the bobbin replaced.

Because it tilts up, the rightmost post has a half-bearing. Note that the oil cup is off to the side.
The flyer won't jump out because once the string/rope to the flywheel is installed then the bobbin and whorl are held down.

Much more work to do. A few dimensions are off and obviously the base needs work.

I'm interested in any comments or suggestions; particularly regarding the right-most post with the half-bearing.

On the prototype, the base is hinged in back to the top of a block that sits on some supports.
The purpose is to apply tension against the ropes by rotating the base.
I had hoped to avoid that and instead have the base raise straight up. But the distance involved is small.
I had hoped to avoid that and have the

There may be some concern about the whorl interfering with the right-most post as the flyer is rotated up.
A very small distance from the whorl to the right-most post is needed and shouldn't be a visual issue.

[zeeprogrammer]

Somewhat finished the model.
Animation of the pedals, crank, flywheel, and pittman rods works.

A few tweaks are still needed...
1) I'm not sure whether the stairs will be included. They're certainly not done.
2) If the flyer is lifted, it conflicts with the two feeder spools. Not a biggie. A stop might work.
EDIT: 3) I'm not sure about the railings either.
EDIT: 4) Would like to add some details to some parts like flutes(?) on the legs.

Still need to figure out how to put tension on the ropes that go between the flywheel and the bobbin and whorl.
Original model had the maiden hinged to a block that sat on top of the maiden posts. I didn't like that.
I thought about making it so the maiden would rise off that block but the distance needed is very small and I didn't like the look.
Another method I'm thinking about is an adjustable roller attached to the maiden. The downside may be additional load.

A few HO scale figures may add to the display.

Another thing to figure out is that I want the model on top of a box that houses a motor that will run the pedals.

But this is enough for now. In a few months I'll start a build thread and start machining.
In the meantime I need to re-arrange the shop and get past the shoulder surgery.

The model is intended as a gift to my daughter who enjoys spinning.

As a side note. I realized the original spinster model (which didn't work), didn't have a hope of working.
It turned out another link between the pedals and the pittman rods was needed.

[propforward]

These are fun models mr. Zee, what software are you using? You probably already said, but I haven't been active for a while and I'm catching up.

Hope you are doing well. I understand you have surgery coming up. All the very best with that.

[crueby]

Looks great, looking forward to seeing the build.

[Don1966]

Damn Zee miss this look like some awesome rendering bud. You plan on building another?



Don

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks all.

what software are you using?

I'm using Cubify Design. It was intended for use with a 3D printer but has nearly all the features I need.
The one missing feature I'd like to have is the ability to animate with cams.
Otherwise, it seems very similar to SolidWorks or Alibre as far as controls and what you see.

I'd like to try Fusion 360 but I'm not a fan of keeping my data in the cloud. I also had trouble getting used to controls.
If Fusion can animate cams, that may cause me to jump.

You plan on building another?

Yes, I intend to build this (or something that resembles this  )

[propforward]

I'm not a fan of keeping my data in the cloud.

Don't want to get off track, but I heartily agree.

I have solidworks professional (good lord the expense though................) so I haven't looked at Fusion 360. I've heard good comments about it, but I don't know much about its capabilities. Will for sure be interested in any updates you post, and looking forward to your build log for your new engine.

[crueby]

I've been using Fusion for several years, does everything I need (and a lot more). The animation of parts is something they are still developing, they can do rotating/sliding type movements where you pick the centers, so it can do eccentrics, but it will not follow a non-round cam. Also will not let you have chain go around a sprocket then off to the next sprocket. That may change in future releases. I like it a lot, but I have no experience with other CAD products to compare it to.

[gary.a.ayres]

The spinster looks ace.

 

[fumopuc]

I've been using Fusion for several years, does everything I need (and a lot more). The animation of parts is something they are still developing, they can do rotating/sliding type movements where you pick the centers, so it can do eccentrics, but it will not follow a non-round cam. Also will not let you have chain go around a sprocket then off to the next sprocket. That may change in future releases. I like it a lot, but I have no experience with other CAD products to compare it to.

Zee, Chris I have made this animation with Fusion360 two years ago already. Is it this you are thinking about ?
[youtube1]https://youtu.be/s11h-YNpG0o[/youtube1]

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Gary.

Thanks Achim. That's exactly what I'm looking for. You've just made the case for me to jump into 360.

Spinster will undergo some changes. I saw a part from Jason with a feature for the legs that I want. And Achim had some stairs that look really interesting although I'm not sure I'll do any stairs.

[fumopuc]

Hi Carl, I will have a look tonight, I still know that the German command in Fusion360 was "Kontaktsätze" in the joints menu. I will check it tonight and do a screenshot.


May be this is the right tutorial, better than my screenshot can explain. The relevant command is called contact set in English language.
[youtube1]https://youtu.be/V9-8q-jvsIE[/youtube1]

[youtube1]https://youtu.be/MMacd89kt9o[/youtube1]


Also nice top watch
[youtube1]https://youtu.be/NBQsc4FYaFM[/youtube1]


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQzwNG6l0o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQzwNG6l0o</a>

[MJM460]

Wow!  Who is going to be the first to build twin cylinder engine, preferably steam, using that geared motion?

MJM460

[zeeprogrammer]

Very nice Achim. Thank you!