Author Topic: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine  (Read 4408 times)

Offline ketan swali

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2019, 03:38:49 PM »
The boys on the Stirling Hot Air Engine stand always liked to use ball raced bearings, without any seals, or shields, removing almost all of the lubrication, to reduce as much of the friction as possible, in their assembly.

So, just out of curiosity Jo, is there a possibility you could consider similar?... example 4 x SR1212ZZ after removing the metal shields?
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Bearings/Ball-Bearings-Imperial/12-Bore
in which case, the OD bore in casting would need to be 'slightly' bigger, or

Metric 4 x 6701-2RS after removing the rubber seals?
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Bearings/Ball-Bearings-Metric/12mm-Bore
in which case, 12mm shaft to be considered, and the OD bore in casting would need to be 'slightly' bigger.

Keep in mind, the original full complement of rollers in B88 would have created the most amount of friction. The above method would mean that you could use whatever unhardened material you want for the 1/2"/12mm shaft, and have lower friction.
Ketan at ARC.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2019, 03:46:54 PM »
Interesting info Ketan, I wonder if just two would do? From previous experience your balls are quite smooth. ;)

t=7s

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2019, 05:53:36 PM »
Thanks for your input Ketan,

A friend has found some English  8) made needle bearings and I have ordered a 101.6mm  :lolb: dowel so I will give those a go  :ThumbsUp:

Jo

« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 02:19:43 PM by Jo »
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Offline ketan swali

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2019, 07:39:22 PM »
Jason,

Looking at your you tube video, it would suggest that two may do fine. The ball raced bearings I mentioned are thin/slim sectioned, so I suggested four after looking at the original B/BA88 widths which are double the width of the slim ball bearings I suggested.

Jo,

Glad you got it sorted. The English made (presumed to be made in England) are they B/BA88s?.... if so, would you mind having a look on the bearings to identify who the maker is please?. Just interested to know for my own knowledge. If it is marked RHP... then it was probably made by FLT in Poland or just near the end of the war in England for a limited period. If it is marked INA, they are based in Sutton Coldfield but didn't make these in the U.K.. They were made by their plant in Kindsbach (not sure of spelling) - Germany, which changed hands between FAG, INA and Torrington.... and then there were fakes or copies made in Italy, Russia and China, marked ENGLAND or Germany... but still good and some bad. Torrington only made these in the U.S. and Germany. So I am a little puzzled about the English made for this particular bearing.
Ketan at ARC.

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2019, 10:12:25 PM »
Hi Jo,
For the power cylinder you could consider a Westwood cylinder liner, have a look at WCL !A on their list with a semi finished bore of 50.17mm (Less 1.00mm for final finishing in bore) and it's 177.8mm  ~ 7" long. As you know I used a Westwood liner for my Rider Ericsson.

https://westwoodcylinderliners.co.uk/products/browse-by-size/

I donít know what they cost but cast iron is so much easier to machine, hone and lap.

Andy

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2019, 08:32:09 AM »
Thanks Andy, I've sent them an enquiry. The alternative is that one of the model traction engine companies has seamless steel tube available which you only pay pro-rata on length and no cutting fee :)

Ketan I will find out the manufacturer when I pick them up. I suspect they are ex-fast jet production line as funded on cost plus by the tax payer so unlikely to be a cheap make  ::)

Jo
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Offline ketan swali

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »
Thanks Jo
Ketan at ARC.

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2019, 02:16:31 PM »
That dowel turned up (with four extras I didn't order  :headscratch:) and it is 12.7mm diameter and 4 1/2" long   :Doh: Mr Silky had a look at it for me and turned it down to the required initial length of 101.6mm using a Sumitomo tipped carbide tool. When it comes to assembly I might get him to reduce it further.

I can report that the case hardening is good and is about 1mm thick  :ThumbsUp: and the sparks did fly when machining through it. The centre is a little softer. 

Jo
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Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2019, 06:13:24 PM »
Latest on the liner: No response from Westwood  :disappointed: But a very lovely man has picked up a suitable bit of seamless steel tubing that can be machined and I have borrowed a Delapena hone of the right size so Smelly can hone it for me  :ThumbsUp:

In the meantime I have continued on assembling Numero Uno of the Triples  :toilet_claw: So exciting.

To break the monotony I decided to bore the flywheel bracket for the needle rollers that I picked up. These are Koyo bearings made in USA  :headscratch: The book of words suggests mounting the bracket on a faceplate and boring to fit the bearings  :headscratch: Ok I'm game. With a 6.7mm spacer under the centre boss everything mounted nicely and both sides of the centre boss ran true  :) Because of the accuracy required for fitting the bearings properly I made a go/no go gauge marked up with too small, too big and the measurements that are acceptable and used this to aid the boring.

I'll have to have a think about how to hold the bracket to machine the other side. My reference surfaces are the bore and the machined face  :noidea:

Jo

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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2019, 06:23:10 PM »
These are Koyo bearings made in USA  :headscratch:

Why head scratching, I thought Ketan explained it.

Torrington used factories in Germany and US to make these type of bearings, Koyo bought out Torrington and still use the same factories.

Not English as you said.

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2019, 06:30:34 PM »
He said nothing about Koyo buying anyone out :ShakeHead:

Not English as you said.

You didn't expect my supplier to admit to any makes other than English, German or Swiss did you?  :lolb:


I am still short of a bit of 19mm square to make the water pump out of: My supplier weighed his in  :wallbang:

Jo
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Offline scalemodel

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2019, 10:42:40 AM »
Hi jo
Im abit late coming to the table but I'm so glad you have started this engine as ive got one on the bench part built which I want to finish off.
I started my engine 15 years ago when after building some stuart engines wanted something with a fire in it. Unfortunately my mind turned to model traction engines and the the rider got put in the cupboard, 15 years on 2 traction engines down I'm now worn out and skint, my mind has turned back to models I can pick ie model hit and miss engines and want to get my rider finished

Jonathan

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2019, 01:18:54 PM »
Welcome Jonathan, I will have to see if I can build your enthusiasm to build your model  :) Did you know it is possibly the last ever Southern Counties Traction Engine Group meeting at the end of the month  :( You are welcome to come along it is held just south of Newbury.


I have been avoiding fitting the Triples making some more swarf and clamped the bracket to a plate to machine the bosses to height and to skim off the bottom of the feet/bracket.

The other side of the feet seem to need about 5mm taken off so before I do that I am checking the alignment  :thinking: The centre of the cylinder seems to be 11.3mm over from the flywheel boss and 5.65mm ish over from the side of the bracket that clamps on the side. Time to go and measure again.

Jo
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Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2019, 02:52:37 PM »
Still thinking about it...

I have taken 2.4mm off of the back of the top bracket to bring it level with the back of the flat face on the cylinder. Then I decided to press in the bearings. Only to find that all the needles had jammed solid and where sitting at a slight angle after  :paranoia:

Having poked the shaft in and jiggled it about a bit I would swear the bearings were not moving they must be solid  :headscratch: All the dimensions were correct. I checked again 30 seconds later and they were all free and sitting square and supporting the shaft beautifully  :noidea:

While I am thinking about where to put the holes in the bracket I spotted that the raised bit on the casting around the bottom of the cylinder is all over the place  :disappointed: that will have to be sorted and I need to decide studs or bolts around the bottom of the cylinder :thinking: Lets have a measure up on the platform.

Jo
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Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2019, 04:22:20 PM »
While I am still not firing on all cylinders I found that that wobbly bit around the base of the cylinder was annoying me so the platform was mounted up in a vice and zeroed up on the hole for the cylinder. Using a 6mm ball end milling bit mounted in my boring head with Tgs head running in reverse that nasty wobbly edge was machined off. A small diameter abrasive drum on my Foredom was used to blend the new machined surface into the main platform surface  :)

I also drilled and tapped the three mounting holes for the platform to let it mount on the legs. I need to work out were the other mounting hole goes  :thinking: and I will need some studs  ::)

Jo
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