Author Topic: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine  (Read 3970 times)

Offline Jo

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Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« on: October 22, 2019, 02:26:29 PM »
Back in the last Millennium or even earlier (early 1980's  ;) ) I can recall my friend Adam Harris who runs Camden Miniature Steam Services showing me a very expensive set of castings for a 3" Scale Rider-Ericsson Hot-Air Pumping Engine. While being very desirable I  was not allowed   to buy expensive castings by my EX-husband  :cussing: ).

Roll on 30 or so years and my young Apprentice was caught buying a set of said castings on Flea-bay  :) There had been a bit of a concern about the arrival of said castings as the seller thought he could post them using parcel-farce for £2.80 Thankfully the fact that it probably cost ten times that did not stop them arriving today or Surus pouncing on the delivery driver  :facepalm2:

I have been allowed to unpack them for him and we have a set of Adam's Rider Ericsson castings  :pinkelephant: Ok so we are missing the bronze bits and the cylinder liner but hey these casting sets are now over £750 or were when Adam sold them last so it looks like we might have a good buy   

Jo
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Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 02:37:16 PM »
Lets start with a bit of history:

John Ericsson patented his Hot Air Pumping Engine in 1890, the year such engines were first commercially produced. They were very successful for general pumping duties where their low power was not a drawback and the fact they had no boiler and could run on virtually anything was a positive advantage. The prototype of this model is an eight inch engine, the size refers to the bore, and in full size it could pump around 500 gallons an hour.

Adam Harris is not the designer of this model engine, he runs a very good book supply company (yes I know the name Camden Miniature Steam Services does not sound very book like  ::) ) and the drawings and a build article for this engine are in the American book "Steam and Stirling - engines you can build".

I know that Myers in USA does an excellent set of castings for a 1/4 scale Rider-Ericsson but these are not them  :hellno: No these are Adam's own and the one major omission in the UK set of castings is the lack of a casting for the firebox

Jo
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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 02:44:23 PM »
Looks like a nice set of castings Jo. One comment which applies to the Myers set as well...replace the tubing for the displacer piston and cylinder liner with stainless tubing unless you want to run antifreeze as a coolant in the case of the cylinder liner. The displacer piston can be subject to condensation as well and therefore some rust if not done with stainless (or perhaps aluminum).

Bill

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 04:27:22 PM »
 :thinking: I was thinking of making the cylinder liner out of cast Iron bill. I am not sure were I might get a piece of Stainless tube that sort of size.

What I thought was the Displacer cylinder is not it is too large a diameter so I will need to find something else for that as well. The drawings suggest a piece of copper tube but that is unlikely to be easy to find. I did find a piece of welded steal tube that could possibly be turned down to make that out of.

The displacer piston it came with looks like it has been used before  :headscratch:

Jo
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 04:32:42 PM »
Bit of my Scooby exhaust should do the trick.  ;)

If you grind down the seam on the inside you can buy a whole range of stainless exhaust pipe in short lengths. What is the diameter you need?

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 04:33:21 PM »
I was just saying that any part that comes in contact with water like the cylinder liner, or condensation like the displacer piston will rust over time. Steel or cast iron will work of course but you would need to mix antifreeze in the water or you will be pumping dirty brown water.

Bill

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 05:41:49 PM »
Hi Jo.

Your reference to commercial production of the hot air engine, was the date of 1890 for Ericsson?

AE and H Robinson were making hot air engines commercially from 1881.

The Alyn foundry Robinson patterns and production rights were bought from a gentleman named Andy Spooner, who also sold me the rights to a side by side water cooled Hienrici. His " trick " was to use scrap automotive shock absorbers for the cylinders and when emptied of oil the body makes a nice displacer piston too.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Chipmaster

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 05:55:36 PM »
I agree with Bill and Jason. I used a cast iron cylinder liner in my Rider Ericsson and could see corrosion was going to be a problem, as soon as I ran it the water turned murky brown so I used ForLife engine coolant. Fortunately a friend gave me a gallon years ago, it costs about £30 for 5 litres now.
As Jason said you should be able to obtain stainless steel tube from car exhaust fabricators for the displacer and its cylinder.

Andy

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 06:23:34 PM »
Just looked at what stainless tube I have on the shelf and the seam is almost non existent, I was thinking of my ERW stocks which have more of a seam.

As a bonus it comes with those numbers on it that you can understand

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 06:27:01 PM »
Thanks guys,

The date was a direct quote from both the article and Adam's sales literature Graham.


I'm going to have to look into options for the liner and the displacer cylinder when I am next allowed to see these castings.  Someone is currently installing them in his casting store with the promise that I will see them again on Thursday evening  :wine1:

I had noted that I can get 250mm long stainless tube locally for about £10 a bit, I wasn't sure if it was seamless. I don't want seamed tube for a cylinder liner  :hellno: but it will work for the hot end.

Jo
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Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 09:49:06 PM »
Nice castings Jo - I'm guessing that both you and Surus will have a lot of happy hours (at different times) from them  :cheers:

Quote
I don't want seamed tube for a cylinder liner  :hellno:

As the only thing I remember doing to with a seamed tube, is cutting them with a saw / cutter, for length and turning a thread on each end - I guessing here .... The seam has a different hardness and this is a pain in the proverbial when trying to be working on the thickness in a lathe (in- / out- side)  :thinking:

Offline Jo

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 08:48:33 AM »
Thanks Per,

Having a hard weld line down the side of the bore would leave a slight ridge which I cannot see even Honing taking out so best go with a seamless tube. I have about a metre of 60mm diameter Cast Iron so I am tending towards that unless I can find a piece of hydraulic tubing the right size.


A very nice man  :embarassed: sent me a set of paper patterns for the missing firebox. This box needs to be bent up and welded out of thin steel sheet. Having reviewed it I decide to modify the pattern slightly and add welding tabs.

I looked everywhere for a piece of 1.2mm steel to make a firebox out of but all I had was a piece of aged 1mm. The starting point required the removal of the brown protective coating. This the allowed me to spray it with spray mount and stick the pattern on it. I had been warned that cutting the pattern out would be difficult but as I had been using the Hagner successfully on the Triple cladding I decided to try using that. And other than breaking 6 blades  :Doh: we had success.

The corners need to be bent with a 16mm radi, to achieve this I used a piece of 28.6mm diameter steel and angle Iron clamped in the vice. This bent fairly well by hand except the ends which were a bit short so they had to be tapped over using a hammer.

So we have the outline of the firebox. Now I need to decide how to join it up: spot weld, rivet, arc weld, Tig Weld, or silver solder :noidea:

Jo
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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 02:23:17 PM »
Nice work on the firebox Jo. The myers plans also show a  fabricated firebox though they were apparently not updated once the cast firebox was added to the kit.

Bill

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 02:38:22 PM »
I've bored out quite  a bit of ERW steel tube with a weld seam and not found it a problem when using carbide inserts, though that won't cure the rust issue.

Then again, hundreads of hit and miss engines about that are water cooled and run iron liners and cast iron water jackets. Just swill a bit of tank sealer or similar about inside if you are worried or pump mineral oil.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Camden 3" scale Rider-Ericsson Hot Air Pumping Engine
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 03:04:41 PM »
T

I looked everywhere for a piece of 1.2mm steel to make a firebox out of but all I had was a piece of aged 1mm.


Jo

Hi Jo

That bit of steel sheet I was babbling about t'other night has been found ....  eventually ...   :facepalm:

It's approx. 460mm x 420mm x 0.8mm  .....  :shrug:

So it's now yours.   :ThumbsUp:

Unfortunately it's covered in blue paint and appears to be rust free.  So apologies for the amount of prep. it will need before use ...  :embarassed:

Dave