Author Topic: Possible next projects  (Read 4266 times)

Offline PJPickard

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2019, 11:21:32 AM »
Wow that Ward! Great that you have the prints, and great work on the 3D model. That would be my choice but I understand it is a long term project!

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2019, 01:23:20 PM »
It looks like the port faces on the Stanley could have been done with a shaper on the full size but the issue for the one off builder is the ports which would have been cored during casting and would be very hard to machine on a miniature let alone full size.

If you do go with "Big Marion" My personal thoughts are that the crankshaft bearing supports look to be on the light side and compared to the cylinder/trunk guide part of the engine they look small, if doing it as a mill engine then I also think a larger flywheel would be more in keeping, what looks like a 4" flywheel is quite small for a 1.5x2 twin, possibly drop the whole engine down and have a slot in your display base or model a brick or stone base which would also reduce the need to have the engine raised on those legs.

A lot of the RC truck and heavy plant model makers do use mini hydralic rams, it is a very popular hobby on mainland Europe particularly in Germany. Even some of the ready to run stuff is packed with functions that you could possibly transfer to yours rather than start from scratch
I think you are right about the bearings supports, they are 1/2" thick, but do look light for the size of the rest, should have more mass to them. The flywheel as drawn is 5" x 1", and is just a placeholder till I see what stock I can find. Probably will do a large built up spoked one like on my MEM corliss model.
On the excavator, I am using components from the robotics world, all off the shelf bits for the actuators and gears, Servocity has tons of that stuff plus ranges of gearmotors. I have a 9 channel radio won in the raffle at the Carmel submarine run last year. The only parts to be scratch built will be the shell of the machine.

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2019, 01:27:53 PM »
Wow that Ward! Great that you have the prints, and great work on the 3D model. That would be my choice but I understand it is a long term project!
Its really impressive to walk in the building and have five of those massive engines towering over your head! Down in the well at one end, where they left space for more engines if needed, there is a couple of small (by comparison) electric powered pumps that replaced all the rest of the building. At least they left the old engines, sad that the building with all the boilers is gone, collapsed in a blizzard decades ago.

Offline Elam Works

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2019, 05:19:00 PM »
Cutting the port faces on the full scale version.

-Doug

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2019, 07:27:07 PM »
Cutting the port faces on the full scale version.

-Doug
Excellent photo! Thanks!

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2019, 10:49:27 PM »
Hi Doug,
 That’s a great photo! I’ll show my dad as we had been trying to work out how that was done!
Have you any other photos you can share ?

Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2019, 10:57:29 PM »
Doug, does the cutter mover back and forth, as on a shaper, or does it spin as well?

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2019, 11:19:20 PM »
A lot of folks have forgotten just how useful a shaper is. It can do cuts no other common machine can do. A hundred years ago it seems every shop had one! I wish I did.....

Pete
Craftsman, Tinkerer, Curious Person.
Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline Elam Works

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2019, 11:28:19 PM »
Quote from: Kerrin
Have you any other photos you can share ?

Plenty; about seven 10 and 20hp Stanley engines that have passed through the workshop for various degrees of rebuilding. Plus plenty of other engine pictures found on the internet; research from when writing an article on the evolution of the 20hp engine. But this is a model engineering forum, not a full size engineering forum. Now if someone would get the proverbial thumb out and build a scale Stanley engine, I am sure I could find photos to illustrate examples of how they did it on the full size engines. I had in mind to do a 1/4 model myself, but not sure when I would be able to get to it. So next best thing is to goad someone else into building one and watch them do all the work. Live vicariously!

Quote from: crueby
Doug, does the cutter mover back and forth, as on a shaper, or does it spin as well??

The cylinder block is mounted in the mighty 24" Cincinnati shaper. If I hadn't cropped the view, you would have seen more of the clapper box. As you can probably see, the bit is tipped over so the entire port face cannot actually be done in one setting. The tool has to be tipped over the other way, the surface touched off and finished. Then you lap the faces. Originally, the port faces were slightly more proud and I think they were able to go in with a bull- or broad-nose tool and plane the surface in one tool setting (tool normal to the surface). There just being enough room for the radius of the tool to run off the end of the port surface. Stanley seemed to has designed many aspects of the engine for one or none rebuilding episodes. So the second time you cut the port face you need to angle the tool bit to get right to the ends of the port face and still be able to work through the access opening. On the third re-cut you are 'up the creek without a paddle' because the port face plane now extends beyond the circumference of the access port thread's minor diameter. There is really not enough room inside to back the tool off the surface and stop short of the threads, unless you had a tool bit that was almost zero thickness. Of course, maybe there was a lot more meat on the port face originally, and by the time we saw them they already had several re-facings. 

The cylinder bores are another area where Stanley was ungenerous. You get one light re-bore before you start to bore out the threads at each end for the cylinder heads. Usually though, by the time you have gone through two re-bores something else on the cylinder has broken (like the mounting ears), or the port faces are terminal.

-Doug

Offline Elam Works

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2019, 11:45:19 PM »
You may have already seen these two pictures that I found on the internet. I forgot that there actually is some room at the heel end of the cut. But not as much as first appears. Thinking back ten years, I think the problem was once you factored in the diameter of the tool holder (about an 1-1/4" dia. in this case) and the width of the tool bit (3/8") the toolholder would be rubbing on the side of the access port before the bit would clear the surface. That is if the bit were normal to the surface so that it could all be planed in one setting. Thought was perhaps Stanly had a 'T" head tool bit that reached out past each side to increase the effective cutting width in relation to the width of the tool holder. But then again if the port face were thicker, that might have been unnecessary.

-Doug

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2019, 12:12:25 AM »
Great info Doug - many thanks! Even though this is model construction not full size, knowing how they did it definitely helps out.   :cheers:


For the model version, I think I will still go with the separate center section idea, since at a smaller scale (not sure what scale yet, but it has to fit on my Sherline tools) the opening in the round port gets tight pretty fast, and as mentioned there would be no way to drill the ports themselves when starting with bar stock vs castings.

Current thinking on next projects order:
- RC excavator (farily short-term project)
- Marion-valved engine (slightly longer project)
- Stanley engine (involved, but nothing like Marion was)
- Holly pumping engine (long term project)
-
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 12:27:13 AM by crueby »

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2019, 12:54:14 AM »
Hi Doug,
 Thanks for the info, those 2 photos of the sectioned engine are great!

Now as to not posting more photos since this is a model site... :thinking: :thinking: oh yeah they would be for research for Chris’s build!  :naughty:

Here’s the one Dads been working on....

Cheers Kerrin

Get excited and make something!

Offline crueby

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2019, 01:54:59 AM »
Hi Doug,
 Thanks for the info, those 2 photos of the sectioned engine are great!

Now as to not posting more photos since this is a model site... :thinking: :thinking: oh yeah they would be for research for Chris’s build!  :naughty:

Here’s the one Dads been working on....

Cheers Kerrin
Interesting, that one has a screw on square port vs the screw in round port. I've read that Stanley changed their designs frequently, is this a Stanley or another brand? The screw on portal would be much easier to make...   :thinking:

Offline Elam Works

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2019, 02:16:45 AM »
The very early Stanleys (c1898-99) used a vertical engine under the seat, with a chain drive down to the rear axle (note the sprocket). This was the design that they sold to Locomobile, and I believe they continued building it with little change. Then when Stanley reentered the market they had a new layout with the engine horizontal and geared directly to the rear axle. Neatly avoiding all the patents they had sold to Locomobile! I don't know if these really early 'new' Stanleys c1902-03 had a cast frame, or they had already had the four-rod frame. Certainly they had the latter by 1905. The horsepower was jumping practically every model, 5hp, 6hp, 8hp; then finally when they got to 10hp the engine design standardized somewhat. From then on the design changed only in detail, and got scaled up to the 20hp and then 30hp engines. Last significant design change was after Stanley sold the firm (again) and the new company boxed the lower end in with a cast aluminum panel and sheet metal enclosure and changed from roller bar to trunk type crosshead guides. That would have been 1926-27.

-Doug

Offline Steamer5

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Re: Possible next projects
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2019, 07:42:19 AM »
Hi Chris,
 The engine comes from the White Steam car pictured back a bit. There are no markings on the engine to confirm this, however the owner is pretty certain that it is.
Unfortunately Dad didn’t take ANY pictures as he did the rebuild...... it came to him in bits, luckily the engine in the car is close to identical, so he had a great reference for the rebuild, although getting some of the internals sorted, with out taking the running engine apart was fun!

Doug,
 The background is fascinating! Keep it coming! I’m sure Chris will be as appreciative as me !


Cheers Kerrin
Get excited and make something!

 

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