Author Topic: Crossley Otto Langen  (Read 5427 times)

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2019, 09:54:33 PM »
Thanks to all of you stopping by to see whatís going on.

This afternoon I continued my quest to make mountains of aluminum swarf :ThumbsUp: (and hopefully end up with a running model too :embarassed:). 

Iíve been working on forming the ďtop castingĒ (which on this model will be a simulated casting).  Lots of rotary table work so far on this part.  I thought I was taking pictures as I went along but when I checked the camera it contained only this one :shrug:.  Iíll need to be a bit more attentive in the future.  There is lots of work yet to do on this part before I can call it done.


« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 11:29:03 PM by Craig DeShong »
Craig

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2019, 01:18:03 AM »

More progress on this simulated casting that mounts to the top of the cylinder and supports all the mechanics.

I probably should have mentioned at the offset of forming this piece that Iím using some extra thickness of this material as a way to hold the piece securely in the vice and keep it square as I measure out and fabricate the piece.  My supplier didnít have a piece of aluminum one inch thick in the desired width so I obtained this 1 Ĺ inch piece.  Therefore Iím using the extra thickness for holding the piece and when itís complete Iíll mill off this excess thickness.

Today I drilled the holes that mount it to the top of the cylinder.



After drilling the holes it was time to mill in the supports for the vertical arms that support the main and secondary shafts.



Following that I milled the recess that fits over the top of the vertical column.

Craig

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2019, 11:10:08 PM »
Thanks for stopping by and following along.

Since the last post Iíve continued to work on the above part.  This is a platform on which all the mechanics attach, the two shafts mount, and the flywheels hang; this will be a lot of weight and at times stress.  As I continued to fabricate the part in aluminum I became increasingly concerned that the place where the vertical columns mounted was a weak point and subject to failure under load.  I redesigned the mount of the verticals but still felt uncomfortable with using aluminum for the platform and verticals.   I decided to upgrade the redesigned part to cast iron and subsequently ordered the required stock.

While Iím waiting for the cast iron to arrive I thought Iíd work on the top piece on which the rack guide mounts as well as the inboard journal for the secondary shaft.  Iíd prefer this to be cast iron also, but I dread making it with anything but aluminum, youíll see why below.  It shouldnít take near the stress as the other uprights, so Iím thinking (hoping) aluminum will be ok.

So you know that the finished part will (should?) look like, here is a rendering from the software.


This is one of the more ďfunkyĒ things Iíve tried to make so the journey is interesting.  The first task was to map out the steps I would take to fabricate the part.  This lead me down some blind alleys resulting in some re-thinking, since holding the part in the later stages would be tricky.  My final game plan seems to have been successful; I suspect other paths are also available.

My supplier only had round stock of the required size so I started with that.  Here Iím facing what will end up as the bottom of the part.



Next was to turn the round bottom of the part to the required diameter.  The bottom is only ľ inch in height so I didnít see the necessity of turning the entire piece to size.



Next I moved to the mill and after repeated passes with this 1 inch end mill, removed over half the stock.  Though much more material will be removed,  I now had a plane where the rack slide would mount as well as the beginnings of the inboard secondary journal mount.



Turning the piece 90 degrees in the vice I now removed more material, forming the right hand side of the rack guide mount as well as further defining the inboard secondary shaft journal mount.



While I had this setup I continued to define the secondary shaft journal mount.



Rotating the piece another 90 degrees in the vice, I removed stock in the front of the piece.




With this setup I was able to add more detail to this simulated casting.  Iíll say that itís very gratifying to start with a lump of material and as work progresses, see the required part emerge from the blank.




With the same setup I was able to drill the bolt mounts for the rack guide.



Rotating the piece the final 90 degrees allowed me to remove more unnecessary stock.



With the top of the piece still retaining flat edges, I could mount it upside down in my vice and drill the mount holes for the piece as well as form some cosmetic voids.  I also milled out the void where the rack passes through the part.



The piece is not done yet- but itís getting close.  I still need to drill a few holes on which the secondary shaft journal mounts and form the top of the rack guide mount into a taper.  This is going to be more ďartĒ than machining.  Iím hoping my belt sander will be of assistance on this.  Weíll see with the next post.  I have some time to figure this out while Iím waiting on delivery of the cast iron.

Craig

Offline Johnmcc69

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2019, 12:44:58 AM »
 :ThumbsUp:
That's a lot of carving! But looking great!
 :popcorn:
 John

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2019, 11:42:09 AM »
Talking about an intensive weight reduction - aka as converting stock into chips - not much left, but at least it looks good and you still have some good surfaces to clamp onto for the last opperations  :ThumbsUp:

OK - back to  :popcorn:  for me.

Best wishes

Per

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2019, 07:07:13 PM »
Craig, that is some amazing work! Reminds me of Michelangelo - looking at a solid piece of marble and seeing the statue inside it. :)

Question out of curiosity: did you consider cutting the first major section away using the bandsaw rather than milling it off? What would have been the pluses or minuses of doing it that way? Major pluses I can think of would be time (maybe) and having a chunk of stock left over (but may not be a particularly usable chunk); major minuses I can think of is that, when I've done something like this, I have been known to band saw just a wee bit too far ... !
Andy

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2019, 09:27:20 PM »
John, Andy, and Per; thanks for your comments.  It was a ridiculous amount of material to remove.  As I stated above, I would have hated to do it with cast iron.

Thanks to those of you silently stopping by the see this project evolve.

Andy; my band saw is a cut off saw.  Holding the piece would have been problematic.  Were it a real saw, that would have been different.  Thanks for the suggestion though; I eagerly welcome any and all input.
 
This afternoon gave me time to address the remaining work with this piece.  Here you see me boring a concave area on the left of the rack guide. 



After drilling and tapping the threads where the inboard secondary journal will attach all that was left was to form the curve on the rack guide.  I thought my belt sander would be a good tool for this but all it did was heat the part up to the point you couldnít hold it any longer  :o (even with dipping it in water every once in a while).  The work progressed much faster when I tried using a course file like any self respecting machinist would do  :hammerbash: and I ended up using files to finish the profile.  Itís not ďexactlyĒ the profile in the drawings, but it mimics the full size fairly well.


Now Iím left to wait on the cast iron to arrive so I can begin again on the top platform and verticals that support the axles.  Iím really thinking cast iron is required for this.  I can see someone trying to help me at a show sometime and innocently drag the model out of a vehicle by a flywheel. :facepalm2:  The shear stress on the verticals that support the flywheels would be astronomical.

Macmaster Carr is taking their sweet time shipping the cast iron. :'(  They waited all day Monday to fill the order and finally got around to it today.  I was wondering for a while if they were waiting for Alpha Centauri to explode, creating the cast iron for them. :lolb:  Itís supposed to show up later in the week. Maybe Iíll rummage around in my inventory and see if I have the material to start on the valve? 
Craig

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2019, 03:19:40 PM »
Andy; my band saw is a cut off saw.  Holding the piece would have been problematic.  Were it a real saw, that would have been different.  Thanks for the suggestion though; I eagerly welcome any and all input.

Hmm, I remember seeing the horizontal (cutoff) bandsaw. Mine that is of somewhat similar design has the capability to stand upright and work as a vertical bandsaw - it came with a cheesy stamped-steel plate that one could attach (only in the vertical mode), but I have made a heavier and smaller plate that can stay in place for horizontal or vertical. Mind you, guiding a piece of aluminum through the saw to make a cut like the one you would need is definitely a matter of extreme patience and, before long, burning hands! So usually I fixture a piece to use the horizontal mode for as much as I can. This may have something to do with the fact that I mentioned above, that I have been known to cut just a wee bit too far ...
Andy

Offline Roger B

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2019, 03:39:06 PM »
I'm following along watching the swarf mountain grow  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: That's a lot of carving  :)
Best regards

Roger

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2019, 02:38:11 AM »
Andy and Roger; thanks for your input.  Thanks again for those of you stopping by.

AndyÖ yes, very tedious.  It was just easier to mill off the unwanted part.  Maybe I donít have the patience you have! :thinking:

Today I thought Iíd sidetrack myself with the valve; it needs to be made anyway and I wasnít sure how long Iíd have to wait  for the cast iron so arrive.  Of course, as soon as I started on the valve, the cast iron was delivered. :Doh:

Here is a photo of the valve on the original.  This valve is a lot busier than my valve needs to be since it lights and then moves an internal carrier flame to ignite the charge in the cylinder.  I just need to be concerned with in-letting fuel/air and then exiting the exhaust.




Iím also reversing the motion of the valve.  On the full size the valve first moves down to inlet the fuel/air and light the carrier; then moves up to ignite the charge in the cylinder, then centers to exhaust the spent gasses.  My valve will first move up inlet the fuel/air, then move down to depress a push rod to energize a buzz box to fire the spark plug, then center to exhaust the spent gasses.

Below are software renderings of the valve Iíve designed.  As you can seeÖ it ďsort ofĒ looks like the full size. :shrug:  One change youíll immediately notice is that it lacks the cover for the pilot that lights the carrier flame.  I decided to omit the cover.



Here is an exploded view.



There is a plethora of parts that I need to make, so letís get started.  Here is my drawing of the valve frame.



I started with a block of cold rolled steel, cutting back the major step.



Next, I cut the major shoulders


Tomorrow Iíll continue on the fabrication of this piece.
Craig

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2019, 11:32:25 AM »
Hi Craig.

Nice work on bringing out the form from that billet, but you can probably guess the route I'd have taken!  ;)

Here's a link to N A Otto's patent for his " revolutionary " carrier flame ignition system.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US365701A/en

I hope it helps in the understanding of how these early engines were fired?

Cheers Graham.

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2019, 07:19:52 PM »
AndyÖ yes, very tedious.  It was just easier to mill off the unwanted part.  Maybe I donít have the patience you have! :thinking:

The nice thing about making suggestions is that the suggester doesn't have to stand there and implement them! :)

So, in the same spirit of helpfulness ... you do have that table saw sitting over in the corner. When I have needed straight but non-trivial cuts in aluminum, I have sometimes cut it in the table saw (e.g., cutting some 1/8" thick plate to a 12.5" square). A carbide-tipped blade handles it with ease ... but you surely do want very good eye production, and a long-sleeve shirt is a good idea as well - the "saw dust" that flies out when cutting aluminum can be a wee bit painful when it hits.

And of course, you want to practice good stock holding and guidance - kickback on a piece of aluminum is even worse than on a piece of oak. Given the shape and size of the block you started with, I'd probably not want to run it through the table saw just holding it by hand; I'd rather use something like a tenoning jig.

All of which to say, given the options, I might well have made the same choice to produce swarf. :)
Andy

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2019, 10:15:48 PM »
Graham and Andy; thanks for stopping by and making suggestions.  Thanks to you that stop by to see the latest.

Graham:  If I were you, with your wealth of knowledge in making patterns and in casting, I would not have hesitated to do such.  Unfortunately, I have no experience with pattern making, nor do I know of a foundry that would do ďone offsĒ.  I do recognize that there are a few parts on this engine that would benefit greatly from castings.

Andy:  You are a braver man than I. :praise2:  Cutting through, roughly a 1 Ĺ inch block of aluminum with a table saw, to me sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. :zap:  Maybe it can be done safely, but I lack the courage to try.  Iím over 70 and still have all my fingers; I accredit that to making conservative choices with the many years of wood working Iíve done. 

Onward with the model. 

I continued with then valve frame today, finished it, and then got a good start on another valve partÖ only to break off a center drill in the piece. :cussing:  From experience I know to just toss it away and start over. :toilet_claw:  No way can I get that hard chunk of center drill out.  It was time to turn the lights off and call it a day.


Before that evil occurrence I was working on the valve frame; here I was adding a bit more shape to the ears that are used to mount the piece on the engine.



After that I cut the channel that contains the valve parts.



And then added a bit more definition with this ľ inch end mill/



Time to begin forming the base.  The majority of the material was removed with a larger end mill, here Iím using a 1/8th inch end mill, basically, to form the radiuses.



Time to drill some holes.  The pushrod that energizes the buzz box passes through the smaller hole.  The larger hole mounts a spring retainer that holds the parts of the slide valve under tension.



Drilling the holes that the mounting bolts pass through to mount the valve to the engine.



Canít pass up a chance to use ALL my toys; here Iím using the rotary milling head to form these rounded shoulders.



Drilling holes for alignment pins that keep the parts of the valve in alignment.



After a few more odds and ends; here is the valve frame mounted to the engine cylinder.

Craig

Online Brian Rupnow

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2019, 10:47:29 PM »
Great thread Craig. I have cut aluminum plate with a carbide toothed blade in my table saw.--My recommendation is--don't do it.

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2019, 03:56:25 PM »
Beautiful work, as always!

Andy:  You are a braver man than I. :praise2:  Cutting through, roughly a 1 Ĺ inch block of aluminum with a table saw, to me sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. :zap:  Maybe it can be done safely, but I lack the courage to try.  Iím over 70 and still have all my fingers; I accredit that to making conservative choices with the many years of wood working Iíve done.

Braver, no. More foolish, very likely. :)

The first time I heard about cutting aluminum with a table saw I thought it sounded insane. I saw it done, and thought, "maybe." I tried it the first time with hesitation, and was surprised at how easily it cut. But as I said, the piece you are working on would make me pause - I would want to use something to hold it securely, like a tenoning jig, and I'd probably make several passes, 1/2" deeper each time.

And even then, I still might have gone the way of milling and swarf. I have a tendency to be overly parsimonious with materials, often forgetting that it might be much better to spend a little bit of money for another piece of stock than to use up a lot of time and effort in trying to save a usable scrap piece from the one I'm working on. As a starving student, that was a good habit ... maybe not so much now. :)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:00:19 PM by awake »
Andy