Author Topic: Crossley Otto Langen  (Read 19626 times)

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2019, 03:59:35 PM »
Great thread Craig. I have cut aluminum plate with a carbide toothed blade in my table saw.--My recommendation is--don't do it.

Brian, I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience. I agree that the table saw is likely not the right tool for this particular job ... but there have been times when it has worked extremely well for me to cut larger sections of aluminum plate.
Andy

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2019, 04:24:10 PM »
It's a " doddle " !!

We used to cut 3/8"/10mm thick sheet for our pattern plates using an industrial version of the Black and Decker circular saw.

We just fitted a Carbide tipped blade in place of the usual HSS version, no coolant and let the saw " do " the work, don't force it, in other words.

I don't know how true the following statement is but Martin, a joiner by trade told me that the Black and Decker saw had been developed to cut open American aircraft that suffered a forced landing during the last war?

That aside, it saved us many hours of work getting those plates to size for final finishing on the milling machine.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2019, 03:09:28 AM »
Interesting rabbit hole on cutting aluminum with a table/circular saw.  I can’t see me needing to do this again for this project, so I’ll not add more to the discussion.  I do have a ginormous (yea- it’s a real word) block of aluminum I’m saving for the Regal engine I designed last winter.  Maybe I’ll need to address it then?

Today was spent repeating many of the steps I did yesterday when I destroyed the piece I was making by breaking off the tip of a center drill in the work piece.  It was my own fault; I was spinning that tiny drill center WAY too slow.

This piece I’m calling the valve “Back Plate”.  It doesn’t exist in the full size.  On the full size engine, all the work I’m executing on this back plate is done on the base casting however, since this piece is faced by the “D” valve and needs a smooth front surface I’m making it a separate piece so that it can be surfaced properly. 

In case you’re wondering, I’m thinking of using some “Permatex Gasket Sealer” to seal the joint between the “Valve Frame” I made up thread and the cylinder.  Also I’ll use a bit more Peramtex between that “Valve Frame” and this “Back Plate” for an air tight seal.  As I already stated; this engine operates on relatively low pressures and I’m thinking the Permatex will do this job admirably.

The “Back Plate” is filled with passageways and cut-outs to channel the air, fuel, and exhaust as required.  In this photo I’m tapping the air and fuel intake passageways.  The small hole below the two larger holes is a blind passageway I’ll plug with a set screw with some Locktite thread locker.




Here I’ve formed the acetylene gas inlets (the two small holes) and the air inlet to the immediate left of them.  Below the gas inet is the passageway into the cylinder and the small oval is the exhaust outlet.  A simple “D” valve controls access to these passageways.  This was exacting work, done with a 1/16th inch end mill.  The acetylene inlets are only .035 inches in diameter.  Doing this work was tedious and nerve wracking and it gave me an even better appreciation for the marvelous work George Britnell does on the “tiny” series of engines he builds.   





I designed the valve specifically so that this “Back Plate”, and the “slide valve" and “Front Plate” I have yet to make, can be made perfectly flat and smooth so there is minimal leaking in the valve.

My surfacing machine is a relatively new addition to my shop and it and I are still getting somewhat acquainted.  With use comes familiarity and here I’m surfacing the face of this “Front Plate”.



Finally, a photo of the valve so far. 

« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:36:59 AM by Craig DeShong »
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2019, 01:28:49 PM »
My apologies for the digression Craig.

I'm just thinking about how complex that part would have been originally, all those cores to create the different passages.

Yours is a neat solution at such a small scale, and thank goodness for modern metalwork adhesives!

Cheers Graham.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2019, 01:55:22 PM »
No apologies necessary Graham; as I stated above, any and all input is welcomed.

I was just thinking that if that piece (the "rack guide") were a casting it would just need the basic tapered outline; the secondary journal would still need machined regardless of how it was cast.  There would however need to be some provision made in order that it could be securely held while machined, and then that portion removed afterwards.  This is where guys like you, with your wealth of knowledge on pattern making probably know instinctively how to proceed, where I'd just be stumbling around in the dark. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 09:53:39 PM by Craig DeShong »
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline awake

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2019, 05:22:19 PM »
Whew! Intricate work indeed, beautifully done!
Andy

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2019, 09:01:44 PM »
Thanks for the comment Andy.  Also- thanks for those of you stopping by to see the build in progress.

I took a little side trip up to Western Carolina University yesterday.  Oystein Baadsvik, an international tuba soloist, was giving an artist recital at the University and the wife wanted to attend.  The trip was well worth the drive up and back and after hearing him there is no doubt in my mind that the tuba can be and is a solo instrument.  Also, the scenery was just gorgeous.  In case you’ve ever wondered why the Great Smoky Mountains are called such, I’ll submit this photo I took out the car windshield as proof.   



Now back to the build.  Today was a busy day and I made a lot of progress in making most of the remaining pieces for the slide valve assembly.   The day started with another fabrication with this 1/16th in end mill, cutting out the port in the slide member of the valve.



Then some shaping with the rotary milling head.  It’s capable of some really fine detail work (that's a 1/4 inch end mill in the photo) and I’m really fond of this tool, can’t ya tell?



Then onto the surface grinder to get the valve slide nice and flat.




Several other parts were made today but I won’t belabor the details, they were all fairly standard and routine.  What I will attempt to show is the operation of this valve.

In the photo below the valve slide is in its full upright position.  With the slide in this position the two acetylene jets have been opened as well as the air inlet to their immediate right.  Both these openings have been exposed to the opening under them which passes through into the cylinder.  With the slide in this position, the engine can draw air and fuel into the cylinder.  It will do this because the piston is also being raised a slight amount, resulting in a partial vacuum in the cylinder.   



Further in the cycle, the valve slide moves to its lowest position as in the photo below.  In this position the acetylene, air intake, and access to the cylinder have been shut off.  The engine will fire with the valve in this position.




At the end of the cycle, the valve is centered as shown below.  In this position, the port through to the cylinder is again exposed as is the vent for the exhaust.  This allows the piston to settle to the bottom of the cylinder and the spent combustion gasses to vent though the exhaust. 


I’ll note that the valve on the full size is much more complicated in that, while doing all the above, it must also allow for a fuel supply to be provided to an internal carrier flame (within the valve); it must allow for this carrier flame to be lit; and then that flame within the valve to be shut off from the atmosphere and exposed to the cylinder gasses so that the engine can fire.  You can imagine that the full size valve is ported much differently than I have done.

Below is a final photo with the valve mechanism sitting on a piece of scrap material.  It is complete with the exception of the bracket that connects it to the push rod that operates it.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:42:19 AM by Craig DeShong »
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline kvom

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2019, 11:33:04 PM »
wrt breaking off the tips of center drills, I'd suggest using a spotting drill from now on to avoid that problem.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2019, 08:02:38 AM »
+1 for spotting drills been using them for about 7yrs now and only use a ctr drill when I want to support work with tailstock ctr.

Offline john mills

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2019, 08:15:39 AM »
when I was at night classes learning CNC PROGRAMING we were told to use spoting drills  because centre drills break in those days we had to grind them because they worn't easy to get now they are available .most of the work i did was with hot work die steals i am certain centre drills would not survive . if some one tried they quickly would fail .when i was doing the programming or working on manual machines i have always had one set up in the machine,  over the last 40 years .at the start there was no cad  or cam programs viable to run at work machines run paper tape. I have always used 90 deg point .
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 08:21:46 AM by john mills »

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2019, 07:55:01 PM »
Thanks for stopping by to see the progress on this model.

It looks like the tide has come in in favor of spotting drills.  I hadn’t heard of a spotting drill till your suggestions up thread.  Looks like I’ll need to acquire a few and retire my center drills, thanks for the suggestions.

I’ve been carving on this piece of cast iron over the past few days.  I won’t say it was a difficult piece to make, but it had its intricacies.  I finished it up today and below is a few photos of it.  This is the platform that sits atop the cylinder to which all the mechanisms are mounted.  I’m very pleased with how it came out and in retrospect I’m thinking using cast iron as opposed to aluminum was a wise choice.

This is the top view



And the bottom view



Time for an assembly of all the completed parts so far and sanity check, everything lines up as it’s supposed to.



« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:46:24 AM by Craig DeShong »
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2019, 09:52:10 PM »
Thanks for stopping by to see the progress.

I decided to step away from the platform and address the mundane task of making the sub-base which closes the cylinder on the bottom and holds the spark plug and ignition switch.  In the photo below you see this base and the hole threaded for a standard 14mm spark plug.  The model is upside-down in this photo.



In the next photo below I show the ignition switch, activated by the slide valve through a push rod when it moves to the bottom position.  This switch is a momentary push button switch that closes to activate a buzz box to fire the spark plug.  All this is hidden in a wood base I’ll build for the model to sit on for stabilization and transport.



Now back to the more interesting work.

I thought I’d go ahead and address the rack and rack guide.  I was originally thinking of making the rack guide out of steel but I’m cutting it with a woodruff keyway cutter and I realized that it would be easier to fabricate in brass and I’m thinking the brass will hold up just fine.

Yikes :facepalm:… have you priced brass lately.  I was aghast at the outlay of funds I’d need to purchase a chunk of brass :facepalm2:, but then I realized there was a nearly INEXHAUSTABLE supply of brass… possibly within my reach  O:-)

Ok, this is on the QT; I’ll tell you but you’ve GOT to keep it quiet, ok?……..Ok?……. OK?.... good :whoohoo:.  Here’s the deal.  On the sly, I contacted Chris’s elves :embarassed: and asked if they’d be willing to pilfer some of Chris’s nearly inexhaustible supply of brass in exchange for a few mint chocolate chip cookies :LittleAngel: (those elves of his are really a push-over for mint chocolate chip cookies!).  And they said YES!!! :pinkelephant: :cartwheel: :whoohoo:

So the deal was accomplished on a dark, stormy, night :NotWorthy: and Chris NEVER SUSPECTED!!!! And he STILL doesn’t know. :o  So…. I’m not saying anything,  :-X the elves are sworn to secrecy, :-X :-X and if YOU don’t say anything (you won’t will you?), :-X :-X :-X Chris will NEVER KNOW!!! :cheers:

Anyway, with said piece of brass in my possession, I set about fabricating the rack guide.  Here’s a view right after I completed it.


Next, I’ll be addressing the rack.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:48:17 AM by Craig DeShong »
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline crueby

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2019, 10:43:28 PM »
...

Ok, this is on the QT; I’ll tell you but you’ve GOT to keep it quiet, ok?……..Ok?……. OK?.... good :whoohoo: .  Here’s the deal.  On the sly, I contacted Chris’s elves :embarassed: and asked if they’d be willing to pilfer some of Chris’s nearly inexhaustible supply of brass in exchange for a few mint chocolate chip cookies :LittleAngel: (those elves of his are really a push-over for mint chocolate chip cookies!).  And they said YES!!! :pinkelephant: :cartwheel: :whoohoo:

So the deal was accomplished on a dark, stormy, night :NotWorthy: and Chris NEVER SUSPECTED!!!! And he STILL doesn’t know. :o  So…. I’m not saying anything,  :-X the elves are sworn to secrecy, :-X :-X and if YOU don’t say anything (you won’t will you?), :-X :-X :-X Chris will NEVER KNOW!!! :cheers:

....



Those little swarf suckers!!!!  :hellno:   :cussing:    :censored:    :censored:


Now I have to confiscate thier little cell phones and change the password to the computer and router. Again.   :rant:




Sigh...


 :Jester:
Chris

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2019, 12:12:59 AM »


Those little swarf suckers!!!!  :hellno:   :cussing:    :censored:    :censored:


Now I have to confiscate thier little cell phones and change the password to the computer and router. Again.   :rant:




Sigh...


 :Jester:
Chris

Man, I BEGGED you guys not to tell..... there goes my cheap supply of brass :'(
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline crueby

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Re: Crossley Otto Langen
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2019, 12:20:34 AM »


Those little swarf suckers!!!!  :hellno:   :cussing:    :censored:    :censored:


Now I have to confiscate thier little cell phones and change the password to the computer and router. Again.   :rant:




Sigh...


 :Jester:
Chris

Man, I BEGGED you guys not to tell..... there goes my cheap supply of brass :'(
Better go back to your shop. Didn't you have a lathe in there?....   :LittleDevil:

 

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