Author Topic: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale  (Read 1856 times)

Online tghs

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30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« on: August 25, 2019, 02:48:37 PM »
seeing this all started with the 1900 navy plans, found the navy boat 1900 that had the hull and fittings plans, contacted a full size steam guy who has several on the engines.. he provided engine plans and boiler/ engineering drawings.. 1/6th scale was selected because the Stuart Turner compound launch engine kit could provide the engine cylinder block,, the navy engine was design onto itself framework and bed wise.. I made masters for the needed "navy" parts , molds made,waxes cast, brass castings made,, other brass boat parts made (soldering, milling, turning,) last Jan.. things made a big jump with the arrival of a LMS 3990 mill,,my shop space was moved taking about 2 months time but now I'm back up and working..
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Offline Vixen

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 03:26:58 PM »
Hello tghs and welcome,

You are setting the bar very high with this navy steam launch.  Very impressive, and excellent workmanship on the brass castings and waxes, Likewise, nice work on the sternpost and rudder.

Looks like you have a good set of lines and drawings for the hull. Do you have the full size launch nearby? You did not say which part of the world you are from or who's navy the launch belonged to.

Mike

PS    Ha ha, I have always wanted some "white oak futtocks" (second to last photo)
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 04:13:19 PM »
 I'm located in central North Carolina,, the boat is a US navy steam cutter,, in 1900 the navy printed a plan book to standardize boat building at the shipyards,, everything from 6ft work punts to 40ft steam cutters,, the rare book room at the university where I work has copy,, my full size steamboat contact has 2,, one that is unbound so he could send me flat copies,, (he is pushing me to do this correct) the only known existing example of this type of boat is a 40ftr  for the early version of the battleship New Jersey,, several years back it was restored to it's original fitment.. the restorers have been great about supplying me with any needed info.. this  "beast" has been in the planning for years..  most of the story can be found here..
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3018430-US-navy-28ft-steam-cutter
this will be a long term project, it wouldn't have got this far without the great help from others..
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Online crueby

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 05:43:17 PM »
Excellent work on the parts so far!!!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 07:48:20 PM »
Thanks for posting the project photos and information, this looks like being a most interesting build with a lot of character and prototype realism.  Admire the work that you have done so far.   Dave

Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 10:16:36 PM »
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 10:25:39 PM »
Do yourself a favor if you haven't already.    Draw a line above the shear parallel to the base line, and mark it as a building board line.    You can then build it upside down which will be much easier to work on and you can pick off the dimension to the board line from the plans when you make up your frames from many  many futtocks!....     8)

.....that's just the boatbuilder in me talking..........

Keep the post pictures coming!    I like it....   Alot!

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 01:26:26 AM »
it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models,  just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size)  and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..
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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 01:40:11 AM »
Beautiful work, thanks for sharing!

Dave

Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 04:03:00 PM »
it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models,  just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size)  and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..

There ya go.   Were they multilayered and "cold molded" in real life ( poor choice of terms I suppose) ?   or is that just a modern construction bent?

I assume you have it strip planked and then cold molded....   Nice shape!   It looks very fair! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 04:05:24 PM »
it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models,  just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size)  and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..

There ya go.   Were they multilayered and "cold molded" in real life ( poor choice of terms I suppose) ?   or is that just a modern construction bent?

I assume you have it strip planked and then cold molded....   Nice shape!   It looks very fair! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:

Dave

and the reason why I ask, is I know where some of the smaller more enigmatic engines might be....   If you're interested in specific detail....  I know where a K is...and I've only seen 2 ever. 
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 05:56:51 PM »
the pictured hull is a 1/16th scale (4ft) RAF whaleback double diagonal planked (the same method was later used on US PT boats) I've have detail photo's of the engines and many discussions with their owner on what changes will be required in the scaling down process.. the foot print will be close,, the frames will be a bit more robust,, the entire block/valves unit will be a little longer,, just a tad taller.. all in all it should be good scale live steam model.. planning on building the hull very close to the prototype in regards to methods and materials.. have 3 select eastern white cedar boards that will provide the planks, white oak for the frames and keel,, I may replace the ash with another pale wood as finding ash with a finer (scale) grain pattern has been tough..
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 06:00:25 PM »
That's great!   I really look forward to hearing and seeing more!.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
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Offline Vixen

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 06:17:57 PM »
I'm No boat builder so I may have this totally wrong. I am surprised at the use of ash wood on a boat, I have only used ash wood to build the frames for vintage car bodies, the wood frames were covered with either metal sheet skins or fabric. The ash frames were  used because ash was a light flexible wood, but it tended to wet rot after a few years due to the effect of rain water etc. So you can see my surprise at it being used in a marine environment. Hope you find a suitable replacement.

Mike
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 07:38:03 PM »
the ash was used as trim alternating with cherry,, it more importantly was used in the seating slats that were bent to follow the curve of the stern.. most of my 30ftr files are to large to post but some 40ftr info give you the idea,, all of the "trim" wood would have been kept in a good coat of waxed varnish..
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Offline Vixen

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 08:27:36 PM »
the ash was used as trim alternating with cherry,, it more importantly was used in the seating slats that were bent to follow the curve of the stern.. most of my 30ftr files are to large to post but some 40ftr info give you the idea,, all of the "trim" wood would have been kept in a good coat of waxed varnish..

The use of ash wood for trim and seating slats seems very sensible. Ash will steam bend easily and provide flexibility for the curved seating slats. It's a trim wood, not structural, and would be relatively easy to replace when necessary.

The last photo looks just like the inside of Boathouse #4 (small craft) at Portsmouth Dockyard here in the UK

Mike
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 08:52:55 PM by Vixen »
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2019, 08:36:14 PM »
Looks like Alex's boat.
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Online crueby

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2019, 09:17:36 PM »
I'm No boat builder so I may have this totally wrong. I am surprised at the use of ash wood on a boat, I have only used ash wood to build the frames for vintage car bodies, the wood frames were covered with either metal sheet skins or fabric. The ash frames were  used because ash was a light flexible wood, but it tended to wet rot after a few years due to the effect of rain water etc. So you can see my surprise at it being used in a marine environment. Hope you find a suitable replacement.

Mike
Ash does get used a lot in boats, fine as long as it is kept painted or varnished - it will soak up water very easily if left bare. It is great for bent parts, just soaking in water overnight will make it very flexible (does have to be straight grained to take a tight bend or it will crack along the grain). I've used it myself for ribs in small boats for decades, never had any rot issues.

Offline Vixen

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2019, 10:27:06 PM »
Ash does get used a lot in boats, fine as long as it is kept painted or varnished - it will soak up water very easily if left bare.

That's interesting. The ash frames of vintage vehicle bodies are generally left in the bare, un-painted/varnished condition. It's the ends and the joints which usually rot out first.
Sounds like vehicle restorers are missing a trick. However, vintage vehicles have become so valuable that they are rarely left out in the wet any more, so the rot problem no longer exists..

Mike.
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2019, 11:12:59 PM »
getting back to the nuts and bolts, hopefully I can get to work on the crankshaft this week as I'm still deciding on how to build the connecting rod bottom ends , either using 2 bolts as per Stuart Turner or the strap with wedges as in the prototype..
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Online crueby

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 01:29:30 AM »
Very interesting drawing - the piston heads look to be conical shapes rather than flat, do you know why they are that way??

Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2019, 02:57:25 AM »
If you're going to run it hard ....I'd probably go the Stuart route, but considering the level of detail that your working to, I think you need to do the strap. ....don't forget the box links...very important.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2019, 01:50:49 PM »
thinking of taking a good try at the navy type bottom ends (I have spare rod castings on hand) looks like navy idea was for quick in place bearing replacement, knock the wedges out-drop the "strap"- swap out the bearing blocks- "strap" up and wedge.. as it may not look as positive compared to nuts and bolts most likely held well.. and I will have the benefit of loc-tite type products..  been looking at the box type links and thinking that they offer me the "chance" to get a small rotary table for my mill.
  The cone cylinder head, piston and bottom, thinking the navy engineers moved the shaft gland unit "up" into the cylinder,, making for shorter frames and maybe block.. the US Navy at this time was a driving force in developing tech of the day.. one area was in advancing foundry work  (many castings most likely were more complicated than needed) the creation of the navy ordnance dept, so that no guns would be of foreign production..the "harvey" steel armour  process was developed with navy funding..
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2019, 05:03:09 PM »
thinking of taking a good try at the navy type bottom ends (I have spare rod castings on hand) looks like navy idea was for quick in place bearing replacement, knock the wedges out-drop the "strap"- swap out the bearing blocks- "strap" up and wedge.. as it may not look as positive compared to nuts and bolts most likely held well.. and I will have the benefit of loc-tite type products..  been looking at the box type links and thinking that they offer me the "chance" to get a small rotary table for my mill.
  The cone cylinder head, piston and bottom, thinking the navy engineers moved the shaft gland unit "up" into the cylinder,, making for shorter frames and maybe block.. the US Navy at this time was a driving force in developing tech of the day.. one area was in advancing foundry work  (many castings most likely were more complicated than needed) the creation of the navy ordnance dept, so that no guns would be of foreign production..the "harvey" steel armour  process was developed with navy funding..

The conical pistons were easier to cast and stronger, and as you said, made the engine a bit shorter and reduced weight and clearance volume.   A conical piston for a given thickness was stronger than a flat piston.   It was also easier to push condensate out of the cylinder with a conical piston than a flat piston.    The bearing straps allowed the engineers to keep their bearings tight without having to take a bearing cap off to remove a shim.    I'm sure keeping the engines silent was a good way to impress a senior officer, and likewise garnering a lot of attention if they knocked.   Reportedly, it was found that engineers were filing the slots in the links to get longer cut-offs, so they changed the links to box links, which beat that problem.
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 09:59:54 PM »
did some milling and turning to look at if the the navy strap and wedges will scale down by 6,, looks like the area for the wedge slot has enough material to work, this will cause some redesign from the castings and a soldering operation.. need to order up some brass and bronze but I have a list of other needs for the boat,, lots of other stuff to work on other boat and engine parts..
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2019, 01:36:14 AM »
I'd cut that from a much larger piece and from the center of that piece to keep it supported.   A few well placed holes to locate the bend radii, and you can machine the whole part complete and ready to slide on.   The square slots are the tough bits I think....I would make the keys first,  Mill the slots, and finish with a file or a die filer....of course if you happen to have a wire edm...well..

The LAST thing would be cutting the strap from the mother material....well   that's how I would do it anyway....

Watching along. :ThumbsUp:

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2019, 04:10:00 PM »
have done some more design work and ordered up some materials,, thinking they will look close to the prototype,, planning a built up crankshaft, loc-tite 603 and pins,, the webs have been machined  and just need drilling-reaming,, thinking that the connecting rod shaft sections (5/16ths shaft) could be centered drilled,, small cross shaft holes added,, the idea being that it would work as oiling points for the bottom ends,,plugs could be added to the shaft ends (one with small oil hole) making the work like reservoirs,, thoughs  ?
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2019, 01:05:22 PM »
forgot that I did make a wedge lock system a few years back (just a bit larger) did some drawing on the oil idea, as for navy late 1800's casting, photo shows a modern attempt to replicate the condensate pump.. that's not going to scale, have a simpler type in mind that will look correct from the outside..
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2019, 02:33:29 PM »
have done some more design work and ordered up some materials,, thinking they will look close to the prototype,, planning a built up crankshaft, loc-tite 603 and pins,, the webs have been machined  and just need drilling-reaming,, thinking that the connecting rod shaft sections (5/16ths shaft) could be centered drilled,, small cross shaft holes added,, the idea being that it would work as oiling points for the bottom ends,,plugs could be added to the shaft ends (one with small oil hole) making the work like reservoirs,, thoughs  ?

I'm looking for an illustration I saw some years ago for the lubrication technique used on the TBD boats with 4 legged triples.    They had this "pie tin" slinger on the side of the crank cheek that oil dripped into near the main, and centrifugal force would bring it out to the big end bearing....If I find it I'll post it....half the problem is remembering where I saw it   :lolb:

Dave
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2019, 02:52:43 PM »
This is the concept.
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2019, 07:02:38 PM »
milled, stacked and loctited the crank web stock,, the mill made quick work of drilling and reaming the shaft bores..

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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2019, 12:43:32 AM »
made some gauges the set the webs, drilled the con-rods shafts and started to put the crank together,, as the loctite can be unforgiving, will make a qauge for setting the web when they get placed at 90 degrees..
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2019, 01:01:39 PM »
1/2" space gauge made,, crank loctited up,, it will get pinned and finished next week..
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 01:45:33 AM »
looks more like a crankshaft,, mounted the main bearing tops,, clearances for the crank has been milled,, lots of chips on the mill today
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 04:28:14 PM »
drilled and reamed the base,, fitted the crankshaft,, lots of clean-up work on the base to be done along with some dremel machining..
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:07:48 PM by tghs »
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Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2019, 09:54:54 PM »
Important waypoint crossed - especially if it rotates freely  :cheers:

I'm sure that I'm not the only one following, even though you do not get many comments. So let me just say that I enjoy following your journey on this project  :popcorn:

Offline Johnmcc69

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2019, 10:07:31 PM »
 :popcorn:
 Yep, looking good!

 John

Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 12:49:53 AM »
the shaft bearings worked in fairly quick,, the bearing side vs the crank webs were tight fits.. lots of careful file work and several grades of fine lapping compound  has the crank feeling very nice..  I have more castings if I mess one up but quite some time was put in the base..
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Offline steamer

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 01:30:14 AM »
That is definitely looking the part!   The crank and it's bearings are a major milestone....

Dave
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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2019, 01:20:28 PM »
Nicely done!!  Still following along here as well, just haven't had the time to comment much lately.

Bill

Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2019, 02:13:50 AM »
started working on the navy type con-rods,, the split bearings are bored,, turned the rod sections (finally used my lathe dog that I've had for years)I use the tops of my castings they will get soldered to the rods,, the stirrup straps and small wedges should get interesting..
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Online crueby

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2019, 02:42:26 AM »
Great progress on the conrods, they are a very interesting style. And that looks like a[size=78%]  [/size]Unimat lathe, had one myself years ago.

Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2019, 03:08:37 AM »
it's been my ship modeling friend,, somewhat tricked out over the years,, extended rails-raising blocks- up-dated VS motor (very big improvement) I modded the milling post with a screw drive adjuster,, just ebayed the jig saw unit, going to make precision filer out of it..
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Online b.lindsey

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2019, 11:02:15 PM »
Great looking little lathe. My dad had one of those too, but when he was downsizing I passed on it since I had a unimat 3, which I still have. Probably should have kept it but that's water under the bridge now.

Bill

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2019, 01:32:59 PM »
the LMS shop mill is working great, so glad I added the DRO's,, milled the set of bottom-end bearing halves , a little hand filing has them fitting to the rods nicely.. feeling much better about this method..
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Online tghs

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Re: 30ft 1890's navy steam launch 1/6th scale
« Reply #45 on: Today at 11:45:14 AM »
cut and milled the stock for the bearing straps,milled the wedge slots in one and managed to break my only good 1/16th end mill :Mad:, have a 5 pack of new ones on order..  will work on few other parts for a few days while waiting,, then its a week of vacation,, Oct. will be a slow month in the shop,, weekend of the 12th is the 1/96th fleet gathering in Rocky Mount NC, around 100 RC model warships,, to add to this Halloween gets a little overdone at the house,, we've been told by the neighborhood that we are required to keep doing it!!!
« Last Edit: Today at 02:20:22 PM by tghs »
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