Author Topic: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay  (Read 734 times)

Offline Caber

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5
Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« on: May 31, 2020, 02:55:31 PM »
I just bought the chassis of a Rob Roy on eBay for a lot less money than the castings cost. It looks reasonably well made however it is impossibly stiff. Having stared at it for a while I realised that the frames are a bit bent. It looks like it has fallen on its right side quite heavily, there is a ding in the rear buffer, the frame is bent at the right motion bracket as if it landed on that also the rear of the frame is displaced to the left.



So my first question is are the frames likely to be recoverable and able to be straightened, if so how would I set about that?

Second question is that as Rob Roy is basically modelled after a Caledonian Railway Pug it would seem a good position to start to build a Barclay. I have a fondness for them as I used to go Pug spotting in the early 1970s having missed mainline steam.

So my first question is are the frames likely to be recoverable and able to be straightened, if so how would I set about that?

I could make the tank and plate work look like a Barclay which would be a start.

If the frames are not likely to be recoverable then using the mechanical basics to build a Barclay on new frames seems a good possibility. To that end I have three significant questions:

1 All the appropriate Barclays seem to have inclined cylinders. Is it possible to build the new frames with the existing cylinder and valve blocks inclined as long as the radius to the crank axle is maintained?

2 After about 1902 Barclays used an 8 spoke pattern wheel with heavy square spokes. Can anyone suggest a suitable 3" diameter wheel casting that might be able to look right? The back of some wheel castings look almost right but tend to have more than 8 spokes.

3 I am currently thinking of using the Rob Roy boiler design, however if it is a more accurate model, the dome, clacks  and safety valve positions will need to move. I presume this shouldn't be a big issue, also the boiler is set lower in the frames in some older locomotives I assume this could be done with a shortened firebox?


The engine as received


Pugs as I remember them just think to be authentic I never have to clean the loco or worry about blowing glands or dodge plate work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online steamer

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10743
  • Central Massachusetts, USA
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 03:37:08 PM »
Welcome Caber!

Nice looking project you have there!   We are all very glad to hear that it has a new home with someone looking to get it running! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

When you have a few moments, do us a grand favor, and tell us a little about yourself, what you get onto in the shop, what part of the country are you from ect, so we can relate, and even if this day and age, dare I say get together in a distanced kind of way.

I'm from Massachusetts, but I'm betting you''re from the UK...

Again, Welcome!

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13493
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2020, 05:09:47 PM »
So my first question is are the frames likely to be recoverable and able to be straightened, if so how would I set about that?

The original frames are not complicated you could cause yourself no end of grief trying to work with "straightened" frames  :paranoia: so make a new set. Keep the old ones to check measurements and don't assume it was built accurately to the drawings   :hellno:

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Caber

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2020, 11:35:59 PM »
Welcome Caber!

Nice looking project you have there!   We are all very glad to hear that it has a new home with someone looking to get it running! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

When you have a few moments, do us a grand favor, and tell us a little about yourself, what you get onto in the shop, what part of the country are you from ect, so we can relate, and even if this day and age, dare I say get together in a distanced kind of way.

I'm from Massachusetts, but I'm betting you''re from the UK...

Again, Welcome!

Dave
Thanks for the replies! I am in Edinburgh , Scotland. I have had a very long term interest in steam engines and have collected a few stationary engines over the decades. I also have the basics of a workshop including a Myford ML7 which I am about to move along with other stuff into a nicer workshop space than where it currently is. Over the years I have done a number of projects including restoring  old Land Rovers and building a Locost sports car. This has taught me a fair number of skills, some more transferable than others. As I am rapidly heading for retirement I should have some time to get into the model engineering mind space for this project!

So I will need some guidance and help in what is reasonable in terms of my ideas and aspirations hence the questions!

Cheers! Kevan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Zephyrin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • near Paris, France
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2020, 08:29:36 AM »
If you are sure that the loco (gauge ?) was not stiff from the build, ran well before the accident, I will simply straighten the frame, knowing that getting these 3 axles with suspension and coupled by articulated connecting rods to run without hard points is a job that can be very time consuming...

making a new frame would certainly imply making new rods...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 08:34:04 AM by Zephyrin »

Offline Daggers

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 20
  • South Hampshire UK
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2020, 09:07:57 AM »
Hi Kevan,
Welcome to the forum, I am also a fairly new member but already benefitted from the wealth of knowledge available from the members.
I also finished a part built Rob Roy many years ago, a nice little engine which is very handsome when painted in the correct livery.
As far as your frames/rebuild are concerned I must first agree with Jo, proceed with caution, just because a part looks correct it may not  necessarily been made accurately. Disassemble slowly, take lots of photos, measurements, sketches and label everything. Inspect each part as you disassemble, keep a log.
If new frames are required you can cut new or use one of the available laser suppliers I.e www.modelengineerslaser.co.uk have frames and many other parts for the loco.
Almost any part of a engine can be redesigned, I have done this myself, but it does take a lot of careful layout work. When one part is changed it seems the ten other parts move, the knock on effect can be interesting.
Im not sure how you intend to use your loco but if you run your loco on a public track any boiler modifications would need to be drawn and submitted to the inspector. Safety first.
Looking at my wheel casting chart I cant see any wheel that matches your spec. Depending on your equipment it would be quite possible to machine from solid, takes time but it can be done. Look at youtube “go create hobby machine shop” he is machining a set of Lion wheels at the moment.
Hope this gives you some useable info, look forward to your build, remember we like photos.
All the best
Daggers
Daggers

Offline Caber

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 11:28:45 PM »
So this weekend I stripped the loco. In the course of this I discovered the stiffness was nothing to do with the bent frames but nasty gunge in the cylinders

It is like dried graphite grease so I presume it is a combo of the graphite’s yarn piston packing and whatever oil had been used previously.

Today I had a successful go at straightening the frames. After attempts at gentle persuasion I stuck them in the big vice and applied the hide faced hammer and made a bolt jack to push the frames out where they were narrower than they should be. They now look straight though there is about 5 thou difference in width over the length, I presume that is a workable tolerance.

I then stripped the paint sanded down a bit of rust and gave them a coat of etching primer and the insides a coat of signal red:)

I also found one of the crankpins is a bit loose In The leading wheel set. I think this might be a job for loctite.

I am still minded to turn this out as a Barclay however the wheelbase and overall length are too short for my preferred prototype . I also discovered just how much Martin Evans diverged fro the prototype Caley dock tank so what I end up with will hopefully be recognisably a Barclay but not an attempt at any specific engine

cheers Kevan:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Caber

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2020, 11:03:34 PM »
Bit of an update. It is now going back together however comprehensive de-bodging work is required as I go.



Currently working on cylinders cross heads and guide bars. There are alignment issues the previous builder “fixed” using spacers to get around inaccurately made and drilled bits. I am trying to sort some of these out while adding brakes and drain clocks.

I have managed some prototype research on this engine

A lot of the engineering solutions are way simpler than the ones Martin Evans applies to Rob Roy so I am using them where I can.

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Caber

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2020, 09:43:33 AM »
So,slow progress. I have been working on brake gear which is now progressing well. This has turned up further problems with the cylinders. The right one has a number of stripped holes for the rear cylinder cover screws. These are 5 BA. also some of the clearance holes in the cover are oversize and it is difficult to get the alignment correct that allows the piston and cross head to operate freely.

One idea would be to try and align everything with the screws that aren’t stripped then drill and tap 4BA through the stripped holes and use reduced head screws for these? Anyone see any problems with this approach?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Zephyrin

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • near Paris, France
Re: Rob Routledge Andrew Barclay
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2020, 11:57:37 AM »
This is due maybe to a poor concentricity in a place where the utmost is requiered.
while holding the cover in the lathe on a truly centered dummy piston rod, turn a small register in the cover if it is not present or too small (in this case you may have to soft solder a ring to have metal to turn) to get a snug fit in the cover. 
Centering with a ring of screws only is IMO haphazard.
once the cover is centered, it needs to be oriented for the position of the guides for the crosshead. You probably have to plug and redrill some of the holes ...