Screw Machine length drill bits.

[Tin Falcon]

One of the struggles with small hobby machines is the limited Z axis. one way to get more from little machines is use srew machine length drill bits.  I wanted made in USA if possible and not too crazy money. Even though these are shorter than the standard jobbers length they are more expensive.
My first look was enco. enco brand import 115 pc set $182 that is three times the price of an import jobbers lenth set arg and not made in USA. and the hertel brand made in USA 118 degree oxide coated was almost twice again the money.  @ $350
so alittle more shopping I found these. I ordered them on the 15th.

http://www.discount-tools.com/mic-drillset27.cfm

The drill bit set was delivered as described shipped direct from the Florida USA manufacturer.
For whatever reason the shipment was a bit slow. Invoiced on the 15th shipped on the 24th received today. Item well packed and in good order.
One very minor problem for some reason a 1/2 in regular 118 degree bit was substituted for the expected 135 degree bit. not a serious issue. 

So from what I see a great deal on a great set of USA made drill bits. In a huot drill index.

so if you want a great set of bits at a great price About half off list) order a set.  if you are expecting next day or even 4 day to the east cost delivery it may not happen. Not McMaster Carr service but not MC pricing either.
communication could have been better but I did recieve what I ordered.
Tin

[ScroungerLee]

Thanks for that link.  Still a good bit of money at just over $200. But as you say made in the USA is more elsewhere.

Lee

[b.lindsey]

Tin...just an off the wall question, though I agree with you that screw machine length helps out for those of us using "smaller" machines...now for the question....given the smaller length of the drills, is the case also more compact that those for a full set of jobber length drills?

Bill

[Tin Falcon]

I think the outer case is the same the inserts that hold the bits are different the bottom stop is set higher.
choosing bits can be tough  good ones are expensive cheap can cost more in the long run . does one really need all 115 sizes probably not but having a full set keeps things organized and together.  One shop I worked in had at  lease a dozen on hand of all the sizes #60 to 1/2 and 3 or 4 indexes of 61-80.
it is fractional size jobbers that really suck up the space. so a fractional set could be the way to save space and not spend 200 on drills.


tin

[Tin Falcon]

Enco price comparisons here.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=22&PMITEM=302-2400
Tin

[Goldstar31]

It's interesting all this. Has anyone questioned why the USA and China have the identical looking item?

Or is there a place where the quality control actually putting the rejects into identical boxes - and selling them for what is obviously next to nothing--to the Brits?

Realise that before they hit the depots of Screwfix that they have attracted VAT at about 20% and have travelled 300 miles and more from another depot and from a container and from a ship and half way around the world.
Oh and Mr S or whoever wants his cut.

Well gentlemen? A bit beyond the normal Chinese carryout.

[steamer]

Hi Trev,

I guess I don't understand the question.   Is Quality Control sorting what for whom?

As far as I know....the stuff from China is that.....stuff from China....and I've been burned by HORRIBLE quality from China a time or two...and I avoid it if at all possible.

On the other hand....its available at a price that won't break the bank in most cases....which is a great facilitator to this hobby and the odd nut pops up that has exeptional quality....knowing Tin Falcon...if he says their good, I believe him.

I have a limited set of screw machine drills I used on my first mill which I built...which had a very limited throat between chuck and table...it was mighty handy to have the short length drills for this machine.  I suspect a mini mill has the same problem,,,which is why Tin brought it up as a thread in the first place I reckon.


Dave
 

[Tin Falcon]

It's interesting all this. Has anyone questioned why the USA and China have the identical looking item?

IMHO the answer is quite obvious. It is called imitation.
as far as quality control imho there is often none in import factories. The steel is Made the tools are ground and the stuff is shipped. sometimes it is good other times not good.
also there is  more to a drill bit than meets the eye . the home shop has no way of testing steel quality other than use it.
And I admit my first full drill bit set is IIRC import enco or maybe harbor freight do not remember had them for several years.  They work.

Like streamer said the reason I posted this thread is to point out the advantages of  screw machine length bits. My mini lathe is 7" ctc the mini mill also has seven inches of travel.  so if one can find a way to save an inch or two of space that is a big deal. a 1/2 in sm bit is a full two inches shorter than a jobbers bit.

We are all concerned about the economy and unemployment.  Will me buying one set of drill bits save an america company or even one US  job  no not likely but it is like voting . if enough people make the right choice it will make a difference.  if in the US buy america as much as you can . If in some other county support your local manufacturing as much as possible. 
I am not the tool police make your own choice as you see fit. just  do your best to make wise choices.

It comes down to confidence and trust. Michigan drill is an affiliate of Cushman one of the best chuck manufacturers in the world. I am confident they will deliver a quality product. If I buy Chinese bits they may be good they may be junk . IMHO it is not worth gambling  $190 on import tools when I can spend  $217 buy USA and know it will be good.
Tin

[Goldstar31]

TF, I was talking about 115 drills for under 50 US$! or ?30 sterling.
As  I am writing, Iam writing on a Chinese machine as you have written to me.

I was shopping today and bought a new weather station thing. My French one had lasted for years and was having battery corrosion and was finally beginning to leak from the outside use. We have had floods repeatedly- but we dont shout a lot.
OK, the replacement was from a German firm called Aldi which is known throughout Europe and the UK under various names -Aldi, Aldi Sud, Hofer. OK, I've dealt with them for many years.
I expected it to be possibly German but it turned out to be from next door Austria. I was wrong again and two Austrian firms were in the various blurbs- but it turned out to be Chinese. Fine, but when it went through the English Check out- it had a THREE year no quibble guarantee.  The price was under ?20 sterling.
I have a set of reciprocating saws. I have one here in England, I have one in Scotland at my cottage and another at my villa in Spain. They were bought at three different firms but all were Chinese and with three year guarantees.

On a sadder note, we have someone who is replacing car part for 'classic cars' which were made in England and they had a One year guarantee.  Today the British car industry is owned by the 'non British' The Brits went bankrupt or -- worse.

Today, I hear, I may be wrong, but the Yanks are bumping out an ailing home car industry!

If someone wants to ban me, so what?

[steamer]

Banning?

I didnt know we were arqueing....

No one is going to be banned....


Dave

[Goldstar31]

Some American Fora have what is known as 'certain inalienable rights' that can be counted on the fingers of an amputated hand


Thank you for the courtesy of Freedom of Speech

Norman

[Don1966]

Did I miss something here? I don't quiet understand this outburst of rights.

Don

[steamer]

Norman:

Freedom of Speech is encouraged here!  Make no mistake!

Freedom of speech is covered in the US as the first ammendment to the Constitution.   

Interestingly enough, many countries, Like Great Britian,  have a provision for it also...so it's not that unique.

It allows one to protest the activities...or lack there of,   of our government. With out retribution.

However.

This forum isn't the Government.     This is a privately owned forum of Model Engine Makers.

Truth and Safety and the exchange or ideas  are goals of this forum's spoken Freedom....but ...as this is a privately owned forum..it's granted to the members as a courtesy and responsibility.   The courtesy to treat one another with due respect...and the responsibility to the truth and safety.

It remains as long as each member extends courtesy and respect to each other.  That courtesy and respect is a fundamental principle of this forum.

I trust we all understand each other.   

Warm Regards,

Dave
     

[Mayhem]

Tin - good to hear that you found a good set at a good price.

One of the main issues with cheap drills is that they are often mild steel with a HSS tip welded on.  A lot of the time these are coated (?painted), so the join is not visible and sold as HSS drills.  Another issue is that the photo in the catalogue isn't always the same as the set they sell you.

I tend to buy a full set of drills, as often you are forced to buy a minimum quantity of single drills.  I recently worked out the cost of replacing broken/lost number drills and it was cheaper to buy a new set of good quality drills.  This isn't often an issue in the fractional and letter sizes.

[Mosey]

A couple of thoughts...

Good drills and a Darex  grinder last a lifetime if you don't abuse them, so it's probably good economics to buy the USA ones if affordable.

I understand that Ford and maybe Chevy are making excellent cars and competing worldwide, although I confess to a certain amount of schnitzellen in my garage.

My trivial problem with drills is how do you affordably store the dozens of loose extras rolling around in a drawer in an organized, sorted way? Is there some simple trick storage cabinet, little envelopes, etc.,??? after you spend hours sorting them into impossibly close sizes of numbered, fractional, metric, lettered, ugh.? After all, you need a hundred or more slots x 5 or 10 extras of a size.

[Alan Haisley]

A couple of thoughts...

Good drills and a Darex  grinder last a lifetime if you don't abuse them, so it's probably good economics to buy the USA ones if affordable.

I understand that Ford and maybe Chevy are making excellent cars and competing worldwide, although I confess to a certain amount of schnitzellen in my garage.

My trivial problem with drills is how do you affordably store the dozens of loose extras rolling around in a drawer in an organized, sorted way? Is there some simple trick storage cabinet, little envelopes, etc.,??? after you spend hours sorting them into impossibly close sizes of numbered, fractional, metric, lettered, ugh.? After all, you need a hundred or more slots x 5 or 10 extras of a size.

Mosey,
Check craft stores. I have found packages of various sizes of zip lock poly bags. Of course writing indelibly on them may be a problem but the modern label makers seem to use a glue that sticks well to clean polyethelene

[Mosey]

Thanks Alan, but that doesn't solve it for me, as I am posessed with the absolute need to have things all in little solid compartments, like drill indexes. It's a disease I'm afraid. I tried the little baggies, but I'm still pining for that cabinet. I search the flea markets perpetually for old thread racks, drill cabinets, etc. Keep searching.
Mosey

[b.lindsey]

Mosey,
Huot makes drill dispensers but it requires a separate cabinet for #1-60, fractional, and lettter sizes. They are around $110-125 from MSC but you could perhaps modify the labeling on one to hold the various categories unless you keep spares for all 115 sizes.  In model work I rarely use letter sizes and if you are much the same would only require two cabinets maybe one for # sizes and one for fractional. Still pricey but Huot is good quality...just depends on how posessed you are

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01691138?fromRR=Y

Bill

[Tin Falcon]

mosey:

Enco sells a wide variety  of Huot brand drill ,tap and mill file cabinets or storage units. The bad news is the one with 115 slots is about $ 400. each slot is large enough for a pacckage of each size. bit.
IMHO you do not need a spare of every size  only the sizes you use on a regular basis based on the screw sizes you use in the shop.
I have more drill bits can I can care to count. for now I am using  Plano lure boxes from wall mart. a bag with 4  3600 utility trays is $25 and you can get various trays as well in the fishing dept.

not perfect solution but better than dumped in coffee cans.
Tin

[mklotz]

Thanks Alan, but that doesn't solve it for me, as I am posessed with the absolute need to have things all in little solid compartments, like drill indexes. It's a disease I'm afraid. I tried the little baggies, but I'm still pining for that cabinet. I search the flea markets perpetually for old thread racks, drill cabinets, etc. Keep searching.
Mosey

They have some real solid medications for that level of OCD now.

Somewhere I've seen rolls of corrugated aluminum with a wavelength similar to that of corrugated cardboard.  Line a drawer with that and put one drill per corrugation.  With a bit of luck you'll be able to have your drills take up an order of magnitude more room than they would if stored conventionally.

[Alan Haisley]

Another possibility: my wife takes about 300 different medications per day. That means that every few weeks a little clear orange plastic pill vial becomes available. So far I am using them to hold some screws and nuts but they are certainly big enough to hold at least screw machine sized drills. I can't see needing anything for multiple bits over 1/4" and for the little ones they can hold a lot.
If you are in a hurry there are suppliers on the internet that will sell you a case of the things for $100-$200 or so and then you would have a thousand or so containers. (Looks like some suppliers will sell in less than case lots.)
Alan
 

[steamer]

Thanks Alan, but that doesn't solve it for me, as I am posessed with the absolute need to have things all in little solid compartments, like drill indexes. It's a disease I'm afraid. I tried the little baggies, but I'm still pining for that cabinet. I search the flea markets perpetually for old thread racks, drill cabinets, etc. Keep searching.
Mosey

Mosey,

I did this with my Taps under 1/2"
It has a screw machine drill for tap drill size and clearance drill size, the tap and a die all in little labeled boxes
It is handy to bring the little container to what ever machine I need it on.....then dump it all back in and put it in the drawer.





Dave

[steamer]

I believe I got the boxes from a company called "Timesavers" that sells to the clock and watch makers trade.

http://timesavers.com/search.html?q=storage+box&go=Search

Dave

[Dave Otto]

Lista makes some nice drawer hardware for their cabinets. The trays come in 3x3, 3x6, and 6x6; also in two different depths. The dividers also come is several different styles.


This is an old post office stamp cabinet that my dad purchased at an auction years ago. The beautiful oak construction was under a nice coat of government gray paint. I used a table saw to cut the dividers so they would completely  fill the drawer. They are 6x6 and snap together so the row across the back and one down the right side got cut to fit.



Here is another drawer with some of the trays holding dies. I want to do the other side of the drawer with the dividers to hold the broaches.


I purchased these items online but I can’t remember exactly where without doing some digging.

The drill bits are kept in Huot Drawer cabinets; I’m also a big fan of screw machine length drills. It is actually quite rare that I reach for the jobbers drills.

Dave

[Bluechip]

Plastic specimen tubes, similar to these ??

http://www.nhbs.com/plastic_specimen_tubes_tefno_162905.html

Got most of my titchy electronic bits in them.

And drill bits, although I've long ago abandoned fractional/number/letter sizes for metric by 0.1mm.

Dave BC

[Jo]

My guys your drawers are very neat. I have mine hoarded in old secretarial cabinets lined with some nice ridged industrial floor tiles to stop things rolling around.

At the back of the first draw you will see that I have just upgraded my metric taps storage to have taps of the same size kept together with best post office elastic bands. The boys are very nice as they use two colours of elastic bands on the post so I use one colour on the odd sizes and the other for even sizes.

In case you are wondering those little square boxes hold my coventry die head dies. I used it the first time today and it is lovely 

Jo

[Mosey]

Well, well, well.
It seems as though my affliction is epidemic. Very comforting, indeed. I do have those lista trays (ripoff other brand) but mine are fixed, not having those pop in dividers. Ok, here I come.
It's those library/secretarial cabinets with a thousand drawers that I lust for.
I have all of my usual taps in a molded plastic holder with the fines on 1 side, coarse the other, and the clearance and tap drills stuck in molded spots next to each tap, so I have it all in a single holder, and it goes to the machine.

I went down to my local "strangest hardware store in the world" one day, and cleaned out all of the never use em sizes to fill up my holder.
Marv, it is incumbent on you to remember where you saw the corrugated aluminum sheet, please.
The drills surplus comes about because I bought a cheap metal cabinet that had a drawer full of miscellaneous drill bits, dozens of them, no charge. Some are top quality, all US made. I keep all of my drills in Huot indexes, from #80 to 1/2", letter, number, and metric (you know, those funny sized ones from over there).
He who has the best tool storage wins.
This has been a fruitful thread, keep the ideas coming and thank you.
Mosey

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Mosey, I'm with you on Dave Otto's oak cabinet. I'm longing for an old oak dentist cabinet. The drawers are lined with some green stone material that is concaved to hold little tools and there's bunches of drawers.

Eric

[mklotz]

Marv, it is incumbent on you to remember where you saw the corrugated aluminum sheet, please.

I remember now where I saw the stuff.  It was a roll of corrugated aluminum lawn edging material in one of the big box stores (HD, Lowes, Osh, etc.).  About six inches high, one presses it into the ground to define the border between lawn and flower bed.  I'm sure a Google will turn the stuff up, perhaps in plastic as well as aluminum.


MicroMark has miniature aluminum corrugated roofing material - suitable for the tiny drills...

http://www.micromark.com/corrugated-aluminum-sheet-030-inch-spacing,9294.html

[Mosey]

Thanks Marv, I'm on it.
In the meantime, here is my tap rack for the ordinaries, a little drawer for the Balax's (or is it bollocks), with a home-made milled plexiglas insert, and the counterfeit Lista trays holding my horde of F1 goodies. I just need to fill up the F1 tray!

[Tin Falcon]

Tools for cheap LLC in Massachusetts USA

[http://www.tools4cheap.net/republic.phpurl][/url]
Sells republic brand Drill bit sets $220-$230 per set for the full 115 pc set.
Tin