making small washers

[mzt]

I cannot accept the idea of parting small washers from bars, something related to the waste metal being at least as
much as the finished item. The idea of a four piece punch and die did not appeal to me (but I could reconsider it, later).
Turning flat stock MAY work.

Started with these



 
And made this (to drill the strip at consistent distances)



 
And this, to hold the soon to be washers in the lathe, after deburring the strip and cutting it with scissors.



 
broke two M2 screws (then I picked the third from the ?quality screws? box)  and got these



 
Swarfs bin material. Sheet metal from petroil cans does not do.
A second attempt with 1mm brass gave better results, though I could not use the scissors to cut the strip, after
 drilling. I wish I had some brass sheet into the 0.4/0.6mm range.



 
Another attempt, with the 2.5mm mandrel (did not forget to take some pictures, this time)






 
Gave these:




They?re definitely off-centred, probably due to the drilled hole not being close fitting to the screw threads diameter.
A mandrel of this type could work better, but I had no time at all to make more  experiments.
 


Ideas?

Marcello

[tvoght]

Food for thought.

--Tim

[Arbalest]

I think you're approaching it in the right way. You just need to make them a better fit on the mandrel before turning.

[peatoluser]

That's similar to the way I usually make washers, although not that small.
the only difference in my method is I tend to turn a mandrel down so the washers slide over them, and depending on the size, drill and tap for a bolt or use a die to cut a thread and use a nut.
I rough cut them out with tin snips then teach them some manners with a 2lb. hammer first

peter

[Bluechip]

MZT

I used a contraption like this about 6 months ago to make some 2BA large dia. washers from 1/16" x 5/8" brass strip.

I don't know whether it would work down to M2 ??

The cone part self-centres the washer hole and grips it for turning/chamfering, although I doubt if it the grip would allow the corners to be taken off of a square bit ... maybe  ... maybe not.

Only does one at a time, bit boring if you want a lot.

Can't help with chopping the strip into segments ... I used my Hegner Multicut ...

No need to comment I'm no draughtsman, I knew before you did ...

Dave

[steamer]

Unless it was set up I think a set of dies might be hard to deal with at this scale.   Getting the parts off the die would be tough....though I am sure one of you very talented members will now show me how wrong I am ....

I mean a nicely made progressive die that cuts the ID and then the OD would work wonders here....and would save the step of snipping the blanks

but.....

I think if you were to perhaps make those mandrels ect a bit better fitting you might really be in business...but to do that , you need a very consistant hole in the shim...probably better consistancy than a drill can give you...so perhaps a hybrid solution would be best?

Punch the holes with a fixture very similar to the one you use to drill with.
snip or cut the blanks
Make a mandrel that is held in place with a live center in the tailstock?...might be easier to load and unload....

Maybe Try making the shims out of nice shim stock...it actually punches really nice...and it's a consistant thickness

Just muttering to myself....

[Arbalest]

I think it's also worth saying that with thin washers you need to ensure the blanks are on the unthreaded portion of the Mandrel. Simply using allthread or a bolt won't work very well.

[Arbalest]

Thinking about this a bit more you could try stacking several layers of the material between some thicker steel strip and clamping tightly together. Drill right through undersize and then ream. Probably be easier if you start with long strips, drilling through 4 or 5 holes and then cut into squares after unclamping.

[mzt]

Feedbacks

Make a mandrel that is held in place with a live center in the tailstock?...might be easier to load and unload....

Dave, How comes I?m reading this line this morning only?
If it can apply enough pressure, that would be the way to go. More experiments are in order, maybe tonite.

Anyway, I got curious about dies and their eventual use, so I made one.





From left to right, the base has a 2mm reamed hole, a 6mm shoulder (where the washers will fall when the die will be full of them)
and a second  shoulder 12mm dia. for the second item, which is bored 5mm. Next, a 5mm piece, reamed 2mm and a 2mm alignment pin.
The last item on the right is a less than 5mm rod I used to get the washers out of the die.




In the press, and it works!




Had to work a little to get that pin out of the stacked washers.




Things would probably get easier if I bored most of the 5mm die to clearance so the washers, once cut, would fall down.




The newly made mandrel made from 2mm rod with a 2mm reamed holder worked a little better than the previous one, but the M2
thread is not strong enough to apply any serious force when tightening a stack of washers.  Wanna talk about stripped threads? 
Will try putting a TS center in it, as Dave suggested.
 



Turned to size and polished, the washers have now a better look than on my previous attempt.



 

you could try stacking several layers of the material between some thicker steel strip and clamping tightly together. Drill right through..

Arbalest,
that?s a good idea, that would let me clean the burrs on the last strip only.

teach them some manners with a 2lb. hammer

Peter,
someday I will have get (or make) a true anvil.
Managed to make them washers flat in the press, but it was nowhere as much fun.

Dave (Bluechip),
I have seen a picture of a mandrel for making/finishing washers that featured a male taper coupled with a larger bore into the
holder to hold different sizes of them (within a range).



I have had it on the to-do-list for ages, but never got around making one.

---


Now I really gotta find some thinner brass plate. Bathroom threshold plates are made too thick , You guess how I know that.


Marcello

[mzt]

I made a mandrel to be held by tailstock pressure, had to make it longer than I wanted it to be because my last center
bit in small sizes was broken long time ago, and they were never restocked.






 

It worked OK, especially when put into use on fewer washers than shown in the photo. Replacing the washer to be treated
is now so quick that even doing them one by one is not a problem. Thank You, Dave.

I have finally figured out how I could make a punch and die to make the 2mm hole, instead of drilling.
Something like this should do (shown in section):




Where the upper portion would act as a guide for the 2mm dia. punch. Now I think of it, I should have some HSS rods in
that size, maybe 2.5 too.  Blunt drill shanks would do, too.

But I did not do any work on it as I cannot spend all my precious homeshop hours making tools: gotta make engine parts
at times! A base for Elmer?s #34 will do.
 

Marcello

[steamer]

Glad to hear it's working for you Marcello!......

[mzt]

Sounds like I got a bit sidetracked by that #34, 

Now, before it gets to the point of being in need with small washers, too, I made a small punch & die to
punch washer holes in 2 and 2.5mm dia and cut a couple of dozen of them into the 2mm i.d. / 5mm o.d.




Then, I made another set of set of dies to cut washers into 6mm o.d./ 2.5 i.d.
 








Marcello

[steamer]

I like it Marcello!

Who says getting sidetracked is a bad thing!

 

Dave