Author Topic: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine  (Read 3222 times)

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2019, 09:41:10 PM »
Hi all, Thanks for the info  Jason  on the Tom Senior carb , it states that it is a 2 lever device ..however on my engine there is only one lever near the bottom of the mixing pipe?? so is the top lever missing or is it a different model ??   Hi Brian , thanks and we shall see what happens when i come to start it...

Willy
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:44:42 PM by steam guy willy »

Offline Jo

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 08:00:04 AM »
Another similar engine: a Stuart 1/2hp Gas Engine.

These castings were advertised on the back of ME on 3rd April 1913 (623, Vol 28)

Jo
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:22:44 AM by Jo »
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Offline RayW

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 11:09:57 AM »
Stuarts made two very similar models, the 1/8 horsepower, which was ungoverned, and the 1/2 horsepower with flyball governor.
The smaller engine had a bore of  1 1/2" and a stroke of 2 3/4", and the larger one had a bore of 2 1/2" and a stroke of 3 1/2".
Attached is a picture of my 1/2 horsepower, which has featured previously on the forum.
Ray

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 02:42:29 PM »
Hi Jo and RayW thanks for the pics and info...so these look like engines intended for continuous hard work with the water jackets  etc ..I like the valve construction with the rotating wearing bushes  and the extra wide main bearings.  The more i look at my engine the more i appreciate good old fashioned engineering!! no plastic at all ,apart from the insulation on the sparking Cct. I wonder what these engines were actually used for ?? Ice cream equipment or coffee grinders and i suppose one could use potato alcohol when  'peak oil' arrives...Perhaps my engine is a 'model' of the 1/2 Hp one !!

Willy

Offline RayW

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 03:15:46 PM »
Hi Willy,

These were very much working engines, not models. One use in particular was for charging car batteries or accumulators. In the Stuart literature, it states that they could quote for complete plants with dynamo, etc.
Ray

Online Jasonb

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 03:39:40 PM »
Dynamo would also power a light bulb so you could see what you were doing on your treadle lathe on those dark winters nights in the '20s

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2019, 01:20:12 AM »
Hi All i have been looking at the web to find out about the Ford trembler coil sparking system.. so ...i have the trembler coil contacts working but no spark at the plug. this is indicative that the 100 year old condenser has failed. This means taking the old condenser out and replacing with a new 47 microfarad 400 V working item.  Unfortunately the local Maplin store has closed down so i will have to source one elsewhere ..... there is a photo of how someone else has fitted a new modern small capacitor , Also , i have made a base and reassembled the engine with the water tower in place, however it is very close to the carburettor which stops the starting lever moving to the fully open position. also i will have modify the extra long exhaust and silencer. It is the Doncaster  Exhibition this W/E and i will be going with the Norwich club...so ..if any body wants to meet up (once all the castings have been acquired) we could do that....
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 01:31:32 AM by steam guy willy »

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2019, 10:49:23 AM »
Hi All i have been looking at the web to find out about the Ford trembler coil sparking system.. so ...i have the trembler coil contacts working but no spark at the plug. this is indicative that the 100 year old condenser has failed. This means taking the old condenser out and replacing with a new 47 microfarad 400 V working item.  Unfortunately the local Maplin store has closed down so i will have to source one elsewhere ..... there is a photo of how someone else has fitted a new modern small capacitor , Also , i have made a base and reassembled the engine with the water tower in place, however it is very close to the carburettor which stops the starting lever moving to the fully open position. also i will have modify the extra long exhaust and silencer. It is the Doncaster  Exhibition this W/E and i will be going with the Norwich club...so ..if any body wants to meet up (once all the castings have been acquired) we could do that....

I do hope you've just missed out the decimal point ???

Got some here BTW if you want some   :headscratch:  0.47uF 400V  CPC # CA05385

https://cpc.farnell.com/vishay/2222-368-55474/capacitor-0-47uf-400v-5pk/dp/CA05385

Dave
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 10:59:39 AM by Bluechip »

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2019, 12:28:17 PM »
Hi Willy.

That's a very nice Tom Senior! I've never owned one but do have a carburettor sitting on a shelf.

The top screw you're referring to is the mixture control, the builder might have considered this as a more controlled operation over the lever action.

The lower lever is your " throttle " so I wouldn't be too worried about it not opening all the way as the engine could easily rev up to self destruction in the fully open position.

What I do like is the way the original builder has effectively converted the " Simpex " design into the
" Superior " format, and very nicely done too.

You could also consider using Propane as the fuel instead of " smelly " petrol by using a low pressure demand regulator. Being spark ignition finding the " sweet spot " is far less difficult than with " hot tube " ignition, I can tell you!!

Cheers Graham.


Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2019, 03:06:48 PM »
Hi Dave, thanks for the info and i have just ordered some from CPC...and thanks for your kind offer ! We used to have a Maplin store in Norwich ,...but alas no more.....

Hi Graham , thanks for the reply and info.. The engine is the property of the Norwich model engineers so i shall keep the fuel system as found !! So , were these engines supplied as kits or as ready made engines for battery charging or lighting and what was the original ignition system supplied with it  ? or did they spec using a model T ford trembler coil ?  Can one still buy modern trembler coils for these engines ? And i do like the workmanship that has gone into this engine !!. Do you know what the compression should be as one can do with a modern car engine . This engine turns very sweetly and which way round should the engine run ? Thanks for your interest in this project . I have had a very detailed and informative prognosis about the cooling tower operation from MJM on his thermodynamic  thread ...

Willy

Online Jasonb

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2019, 03:21:28 PM »
You can buy modern "buzz coils" which are just a small circuit board with a few components and a small coil on them about the size of a matchbox that are triggered by contact points or a hall sensor. You can also still buy the contacts that are on the top of your box (engineers emporium do them) and add an ATV coil and lawnmower condenser and you have a buzz coil which is what I posted the video of earlier.





Usual convention is top of the flywheel moves away from the cylinder.

They sold kits and complete engines, you could also pay to have various parts such as crank or flywheel machined if you were not upto doing those. Also complete electrical plants





As for fuel if you don't want the smell of petrol get some "Colmans fuel" from a camping shop or e-bay or Aspen fuel but that doe snot come in such small amounts.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 03:26:41 PM by Jasonb »

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2019, 04:02:18 PM »
Hi Jason  Thanks for all this info   IC is new to me so i do appreciate all this further knowledge I have ordered a new condenser/ capacitor so might have it running soon. I was also wondering about the exhaust box that came with the engine ..is this one what might have come with the engine ? or has it been home made ?? it is quite a lengthy set up ?

Willy

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2019, 05:53:26 PM »
Hi Willy.

It appears that Jason has answered most of the questions you asked of me, I'll try the rest.

Regarding compression ratios, early stationary engines weren't very high 3 towards 5:1 being common. Particularly where " hot tube " was used, pre ignition became a problem with the higher ratios.
If drawings were available this ratio could be easily found. I'm pretty sure the Stuart Turner " Sandhurst " had one of the highest compression ratios of all the range of small power stationary engines that were made throughout the 20th century.

Regarding ignition. The period literature mentions " coil " this would suggest, to me anyway, a standard coil and points system. But who knows really? At that time the " magneto " was in plentiful production and I've seen many small power engines fitted with a chain drive to one of the many types like, BTH, ML, Wico and Bosch.

I'm hoping that the new " condensor " will fix your trembler box troubles as yes, replacements are available but very expensive!

As to use, many of us forget that before the TV age Radio was King. There wasn't a " National Grid " early radio needed two different voltages. A strong 6 Volts for the valve/tube heaters and 90 Volts for the HT side. Many a little engine would be used to charge those batteries. I had a colleague in the electricity supply industry whose father supplemented his income by charging the local communities batteries using an Amanco " Hired Man " engine and Dynamo plant!

Finally, from the picture that you posted the exhaust " bottle " looks like a casting? Is it? If it is a casting its probably correct.

Cheers Graham.

Edit.

Having just re read their advertising material they mention " adjustable contact maker " as opposed to contact breaker so the coil is very likely to be the one you have.

G.R.C.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 05:58:46 PM by Alyn Foundry »

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2019, 03:09:43 PM »
Hi Graham, I have now been cleaning up the Points on my trembler box and was wondering if they are made from Platinum ?? I think that in the old days this metal was not so highly prized and was used extensively in relays and stuff ?  If so , is there lots of 'wealth' attached to all these trembler coil boxes that have been manufactured over the last 120 years ??

Offline Jo

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Re: Ford Wyvern type petrol engine
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2019, 03:45:09 PM »
Hi Graham, I have now been cleaning up the Points on my trembler box and was wondering if they are made from Platinum ??

No. It is likely to be a Silver Alloy.

Jo
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