Author Topic: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine  (Read 1230 times)

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1899
Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« on: April 16, 2019, 07:49:51 PM »
I will be picking up a set of castings at NAMES for this engine.  The origins are from Historic Models and Reproductions from whom I got the castings for the Joy engine.  The plans and castings are now owned by Downriver Tools.  From their website:

Quote
- Improved Green Automatic Cut-Off Engine

This horizontal steam engine castings and drawings kit is based on the original automatic steam cut-off engine design by Nobel Green in 1838. The model has a 1 1/2 inch bore, 3 inch stroke and the flywheel is 11 ½ inches diameter.

This engine, built by the Providence Steam Engine Company in Providence, Rhode Island, incorporated variable steam cut-off several years before George Corliss patented his famous variable cut-off Corliss valve gear.  Our model is based on a 150 HP, 17 inch bore and 36 inch stroke Improved Green Automatic cut-Off Engine that has been restored and preserved by the New England Wireless and Steam Museum in East Greenwhich, RI.

Green’s engine design used what has been known as a detachable valve-gear.  The detachable valve-gear varies the steam cut-off point by using the engine governor to raise or lower trip points that operate levers to open the steam inlet valves.  The higher the trip point, the longer the steam inlet valve stays open allowing more steam into the engine’s cylinder.   The detachable valve gear was designed by Frederick Sickels and patented in 1841.  Sickels was only interested in the marine applications of his valve gear and sold the rights to use his patent on land based engines to the Providence Steam Engine company.  Then, when George Corliss introduced his variable cut-off valve gear in the late 1840’s, the Providence Steam Engine Company sued Corliss for patent infringement.

The court battle between George Corliss and the Providence Steam Engine Company raged on for over 10 years and became a landmark court case over what can and cannot be patented.  In the course of the court battle, Corliss won an injunction preventing the Providence Steam Engine Company from building and selling the Green designed engine.  The court case was finally settled in Corliss’ favor and Corliss’ original patent was extended by the US patent office on the basis that the law suits had prevented Corliss from benefiting from his patent.

In 1869, the Corliss valve gear patents finally expired and the Providence Steam Engine Company began producing the Green engine again.  The Green Engine was given some minor upgrades and changes and then introduced as the “Improved” Green Automatic Cut-Off Engine even though it was basically the same engine Noble Green designed in 1838. 

Specifications:

Scale: 1 inch = 1 foot (1:12)
Cylinder: 1-1/2 inch bore x 3 inches stroke
Flywheel: 11-1/2 inches diameter
Overall size: 22-1/2 inches x 12 inches x 12 inches high

I suspect this will prove a good challenge.  The photo below is from their website and represents the only example I've seen running (twice at NAMES).  I don't know the builder's name, but he likes to surface grind as much of the parts as possible.  Mine will look a bit different color wise, and probably not as finely built.  I purchased the plans a year ago so I've had some time to get an idea where the problems will be.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 04:36:31 PM by kvom »

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8332
  • Rochester NY
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2019, 08:03:02 PM »
That should be a very interesting model.... Gotta go check the popcorn kernel supply...

Offline fumopuc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2305
  • Munich, Germany, EU
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 07:53:56 PM »

[/size]
Hi Kirk, here a model build from bar stock of one of our German forum member.

http://www.dampfundmehr.de/HP/green/im_bau/green_0.htm
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8332
  • Rochester NY
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2019, 09:12:33 PM »


Hi Kirk, here a model build from bar stock of one of our German forum member.

http://www.dampfundmehr.de/HP/green/im_bau/green_0.htm

That is a beautiful model! One bit I have never seen before is a part on the crankshaft next to the eccentric and the governor belt takeoff - looks to be hinged over to the base casting, and wobbles back and forth - some sort of oil pump? You can see it in one of the photos, and partway through the video at timestamp 1:15. Any idea what it is?

Offline Admiral_dk

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1269
  • Søften - Denmark
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2019, 09:19:01 PM »
I might be mistaken, but look later in the video where you see the bottom two valves controlled by an axel that only oscillates a few degrees back and forth ....  :old:

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8332
  • Rochester NY
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 09:24:54 PM »
I might be mistaken, but look later in the video where you see the bottom two valves controlled by an axel that only oscillates a few degrees back and forth ....  :old:


Aha! Thats it, that second eccentric drives  that axle in a small back and forth rotation. Clever!


Thanks!

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1899
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 04:04:32 PM »
I picked up the castings at NAMES.  Here they are laid out on the shop floor with a 12" rule for comparison (penny might have not been indicative):



A test fit shows that the flywheel can be mounted on my 10EE lathe, but it's unlikely I can use it to turn the rim, given that the crossfeed is limited.  I plan on doing it with an endmill on the CNC mill.

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6354
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 04:18:06 PM »
Look a nice set of castings.

I would have thought you only need about 3/4" cross feed movement at the most to do the rim. Upside down boring bar mounted on the side of the toolpost facing you usually reaches out far enough to do face & side, run in reverse.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 04:22:08 PM by Jasonb »

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1899
Re: Green Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 04:34:55 PM »
With the Joy engine 10" flywheels I was at the utmost to turn, and these are 11".  I probably need to make a custom tool holder.

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1899
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2019, 02:02:41 AM »
I have been studying the Solidworks model I got from Dennis Howe.  These are more informative than looking at individual drawings.  I spent the day assigning contrasting colors to the parts in order to see how they fit together more easily.  A zillion parts in this one.  A majority of the nuts are 3-48.

The operation of the exhaust valve is interesting as noted in a previous post.  Driven by an eccentric, the strap is connected to a pivoting part whose motion rocks the long exhaust rod *(second pic).  At the other end an oscillating linkage drives the "grate" valve, shown in the third.  Both halves of the valve have matching through slots that when matched together open the cylinder to the exhaust,  The use of multiple slots allows evacuation of more exhaust for an engine that might run a high speed.

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8332
  • Rochester NY
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2019, 02:05:54 AM »
Now that is some clever engineering in that engine! I can see why the 3D model made it much clearer, the individual parts would be meaningless. The gimbals on the eccentric follower is pretty neat!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline jeff l

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2019, 03:38:06 AM »
Just to clarify Downriver tools does not own Historic Models and Reproductions , they merely have the engines on their website to help sales .

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1899
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2019, 01:22:11 PM »
Thanks for clarifying Jeff.

I have scheduled a 2 day trip June 4-5 via Boston  to visit the NE Wire and Steam museum where an original engine has been restored.  I have an expiring SW airlines credit that will pay for most of the airfare.  I haven't been back to Boston since I spent 6 months contracting there 20+ years ago.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 01:47:38 PM by kvom »

Offline jeff l

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2019, 01:29:22 PM »
 Kirk ,The New England Wireless and Steam museum is on my must see list i hope to make the trip soon . I see from the photo of castings that you are missing the governor stand , castings arrived yesterday so I will get this casting out to you .Jeff

Offline RonGinger

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 226
  • Boothbay Maine USA
    • Pleasant Cove Models
Re: Greene Automatic Cutoff Steam Engine
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2019, 05:03:52 PM »
The New England Wireless and Steam Museum is well worth the visit. They have a couple big annual events, the SteamUp  is usually the first weekend in October. That day the big vertical boiler is fired up and several of the big steam engines are run.

Be sure to check ahead to see if they will be open when you want to visit- its a rather small place and not always open. The founder, who was almost always there, died a few months ago and I am not sure what the opening schedule will be.