Author Topic: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine  (Read 1204 times)

Offline AOG

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AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« on: April 01, 2019, 02:30:15 AM »


This is one I have been wanting to make for a while. I remember reading Arnold’s build of this engine a few years ago. At the time I wasn’t up to the task but I think I’m ready. This is especially true because I’m cheating. I bought the gears premade.



Let’s get started. First up is the base. The blank was milled to size and mounting holes were drilled and counterbored from the bottom.



Then I milled the flywheel slot into the base. That took a month of Sundays. In hind sight I should have chain drilled the perimeter of the slot and cleaned it up with a mill.



Then the part was laid flat and I ran my shell mill over to top to clean it up.



That’s as far as I got this weekend. Till next time.

Tony


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Offline Kim

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 05:07:10 AM »
That's going to be a fun little engine, Tony!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim

Offline Xldevil

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2019, 06:11:59 AM »
Interesting engine.
Where did you get the gears?
Cheers,Ralph


Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 02:00:36 PM »
Interesting engine.
Where did you get the gears?
Cheers,Ralph

Would you believe Amazon? They have a few week lead time but they are available.

Tony

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 02:37:24 PM »
I always liked this one, never made it but will definitely be following along Tony. Great choice!!

Bill

Offline bent

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 04:23:17 PM »
That's not cheating, that's bowing to reality. Boston has been making gears a long time, and I've never made one.  I'd have to need something special before I'd go to the trouble of buying gear cutting tools.

This engine is on my someday list too, Tony.  Will be watching with interest. :popcorn:

Offline crueby

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 04:26:13 PM »
Gear cutters are handy things, but they would not make the internal tooth gears like you bought - anyone here ever make internal toothed gears? Wondering how they could be done...
Anyway, will be watching along, that is a very slick engine.

Offline Dreeves

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2019, 02:29:39 AM »
Those are some pricey gears. I had the engine mostly complete before I looked for the gears. Wow sticker shock.  Great looking progress.  Looking forward to seeing it run

Dave

Offline john mills

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2019, 03:08:01 AM »
the internal gear can be made on a gear shaper the cutter has a small number of teeth to fit in side it is like a pinion and is geared to give the right number of teeth like a pinion meshing with the inside teeth both rotate together as the cutter backs off from the cut returns to the top of the stroke then advances to cutting depth cutting on the way down .The one i used was made by Tos it was the same as fellows .it fed to depth in the first 1/4 turn did a complete turn then backed off and stopped ready for the next gear.the one i used was only small would cut about 6" dia gears  but it was quick 700  800 strokes a minute not taking long to cut a gear.I never had to cut an internal gear but the tools were there.it would cut right up to a shoulder  into a narrow grove like 1/32" 

Offline Xldevil

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2019, 09:20:06 AM »
Those are some pricey gears. I had the engine mostly complete before I looked for the gears. Wow sticker shock.  Great looking progress.  Looking forward to seeing it run

Dave

Less pricey German source

https://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1618/innenzahnkraenze-modul-05-bis-2

https://www.maedler.de/product/1643/1618/stirnzahnraeder-gerade-verzahnt
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 09:23:43 AM by Xldevil »

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 01:57:17 AM »
I didn’t get much work done this weekend so I’m his will be a short update. I worked on one of the bearing pillars. I squared up the blank an milled it to length. Then I drilled and tapped the mounting holes.



Then with it still square I drilled the hole that eventually will take the bearing bronze.



The sides were milled close to the lines.



The end was faceted for rounding over.



The part was taken to the final shape on the belt sander.



That’s it for this weekend.

Till next time

Tony


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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2019, 02:53:23 PM »
Coming along Tony, nice progress!

Bill

Offline AOG

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AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 02:40:39 AM »
This weekend has been three steps forward and two steps back. The fist thing I did was to make the large standard that will eventually hold the large gear. I squared up a blank and then drilled and tapped the mounting feet.



The part was flipped on it’s side and the bearing hole and the gear mounting holes were drilled. I deviated from the plans here. The plans call for 3-48 fasteners on the gear. I couldn’t find any so I am substituting 2-56 and drilled the holes accordingly.



The next change I made was to the shape. I liked what Arnold did on his so I roughly emulated his shape. First I notched the top in preparation for rounding over.



Then I milled down the sides close to the marked out dimensions.



The last bit of machining was to facet the top in preparation for rounding on the belt sander.



Then it was over to the belt sander to take the edges to the lines and round over the top. Here is a family shot taken after sanding.



Next up was to make the bearings. I turned the bronze to size and parted off two bearings.



I pressed the bearings into the standards. When the loctite cured I drilled and reamed the holes in the bearings.



That’s where I ran into problems. Somewhere along the way the drill drifted and I was left with this.



I pressed out the failed bearings and next week I will try again.

Till next time.

Tony


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« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:57:15 AM by AOG »

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 02:52:57 AM »
I had a little shop time this weekend so I worked on the cylinder stand. First I squared up the blank and drilled the mounting holes.



The part was flipped onto its side and the decorative center hole drilled out and reamed.



Next I milled out the waste stock on the sides.



The part was turned bottom side up and trimmed to length.



That left me with the following.



After some quality time with my files, here is the final result.



Till next time

Tony


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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 02:12:39 PM »
Bummer about the bearings Tony, but the cylinder stand turned out quite well.

Bill

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 03:22:14 AM »
Thanks Bill, now onto the cylinder itself. I started by squaring up a blank. It was inserted into the four jaw and taken to length.



Then the blank was offset in the chuck and the bore drilled and reamed.



Next the end was turned round.



The part was removed from the four jaw and placed on a mandril. Then it was held in the collet chuck and the other end turned round.



The blank was moved to the mill where the mounting holes and the exhaust port were drilled.



The part was rotated 90 degrees and I drilled the exhaust holes and milled the valve slots. I screwed up one of the slots and ended up filling it in with JB weld and remaking the slot.



Then the steam chest mounting holes were drilled.



The part was turned on end and notch cut into both ends of the cylinder.



Then the passage between the valve slots and cylinder end was drilled.



While drilling the other side disaster struck. the drill bit broke about 3/4 of the way through the part. Worse yet the drill was carbide so the alum trick wouldn’t have worked. I was tempted to trash the part and start again but I decided to try to save it. A trench was milled from the valve slot towards the end of the cylinder on centerline until the top of the drill was met. Then using my smallest punch the remains of the drill were drifted out. Now I have a hole in the wrong place and a big trench in my cylinder. The holes were filled with JB weld and I will try again after it sets. Thankfully Elmer uses a brass valve plate between the cylinder and the valve. If I can get the JB weld flat enough to seal I should be OK.

Till next time

Tony


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Offline bent

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 11:49:38 PM »
Argh!  That's the nightmare I have every time I go to drill cylinder passages...hope you can salvage the work you did already!

Offline AOG

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AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2019, 12:42:20 AM »
When last we left this build I had filled in the holes from my broken drill debacle with JB weld. The JB weld set and the excess was cleaned up leaving this.



the slot was recut and the port drilled. If you look at the picture you can see the remnants of the trench that was cut to get at the broken drill. I’m going to call that a successful save and move on.



The next step was to drill the cylinder cover mounting holes while the stock was still square.



With that completed the two of the sides were milled down to final dimension.



Then the corner between the two sides was faceted in preparation for rounding over.



The corner was rounded on the belt sander and all of the holes were tapped.



I’m going to end this with a family shot with the cylinder in it’s approximate final location. I need to order some longer 5-40 screws to finish mounting it to the base.



That’s it for now. Till next time

Tony


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« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 06:27:45 AM by AOG »

Offline crueby

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2019, 01:12:05 AM »
Nice recovery!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2019, 02:34:47 PM »
Nice save Tony, and that will all be hidden anyway. Gotta love JB Weld :)

Bill

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2019, 04:59:36 PM »
Thanks guys

Tony

Offline bent

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2019, 09:12:26 PM »
Phew!  Good fix!  Gotta love JB Weld. :agree:

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 02:32:58 AM »
This weekend I got the cylinder covers done. I started by turning down a length of bar to match the cylinder diameter. Then I drilled and tapped the hole for the gland nut.



Having learned from painful experience, I always drill any kind of center holes before turning the profile. If you do it the other way around and the center hole is big enough there may not be enough material to support the stress from the drilling operation. In this case it’s not really an issue but I try to keep good habits. That brings us to the next operation turning the profile.



Next the bar was taken to the mill and the mounting holes drilled. I drilled them deep enough to make both cylinder covers without having to go back to the mill.



Both covers were parted off. Then the bosses were turned to fit the cylinder.



The last thing I did was to clean up the top face of the second cover. Here is a current family shot.



Till next time

Tony




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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 02:52:57 PM »
Some nice progress there Tony!!  Keep it coming :)

Bill

Offline bent

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 05:43:49 PM »
Good tip on the tapping prior to machining the boss.  Keep up the good work, Tony!

Offline AOG

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Re: AOG’s version of Elmer’s number 5 geared engine
« Reply #25 on: Today at 02:19:28 AM »
This weekend I got the piston and piston rod done. I started with the rod end. First I drilled the end 3/32 to take the piston rod.



Next I profiled the end to make it more aesthetically pleasing.



Then it was over to the mill to drill the end and mill it to width.



The part was cut off of the parent stock and rounded over. Then the piston rod was cut to length and the end was threaded.



The piston rod parts were put aside while I started on the piston. I turned down the OD 5 thousandths oversize to allow for trueing up on the piston rod.



Then I drilled and tapped the center of the piston.



The piston was parted off and screwed onto the piston rod. Then the rod assembly was mounted in the collet chuck. I am using a silicone o ring on the piston for sealing. Normally I cut the groove in the piston to the SAE dimensions for the gasket I’m using. This leads to a good seal but a relatively large amount of friction. I was reading the model engineer’s handbook and Tubal Cain recommends a different set of dimensions more appropriate to the lower pressures that model engines tend to operate. I cut the groove to the recommended dimensions and then trued up the outside and brought it to dimension. That also took care of any burs thrown up by cutting the groove.



The assembly was removed from the collet chuck and tested in the cylinder. It certainly has less friction but we’ll see how well it seals after assembly. The piston was unscrewed from the rod and set aside. The last thing I did was to solder the piston rod to the rod end. Here it is after the pickle and before clean up.



That’s it for now. Till next time.

Tony


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