Author Topic: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine  (Read 3822 times)

Offline J.L.

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Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« on: February 14, 2019, 02:02:25 AM »
Jason B. suggested that a Southworth engine could be a nice alternative for my next diorama.

 Thank you Jason.

Blackgates Engineering in Dewsbury, England have acquired Southworth products and are planning to cast parts for a line of Lincoln engines.  Moulds have been sent to the foundry and should be available for sale in a couple of weeks.

I have decided to set the stage for one of the engines in a mill diorama while waiting.

The project begins with  one-half inch MDF floor, east, west and south engine room walls. It will be assumed that the boiler room is behind the south wall.

Offline steamer

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 02:04:08 AM »
 :popcorn:

I'm in!
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 02:31:03 AM »
Great John.!! Looking forward to it.

Bill

Offline crueby

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 02:59:36 AM »
Supply of popcorn kernels,  check!

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 06:17:25 AM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn: :popcorn:

Pete
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SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Online Kim

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 05:53:55 PM »
Sounds like another fun ride!  You'll all have to scoot over and make room for me too :)  :popcorn:
Kim

Offline Roger B

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 08:26:38 PM »
Glad you are under way again  :) Is that the table from the previous plan?
Best regards

Roger

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 10:21:53 PM »
Thanks guys.

It's good to be back in the saddle.

Roger, you've got a keen eye. Yes, that's the ange iron table that was going to be part of the colliery. I cut six inches off of it to suit the new diorama format. Phoenix rose from the ashes,


Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2019, 11:02:48 AM »
The top of all ll industrial windows seem to be either arched or rounded , I would think strength to be the determining factor.

To obtain a nice smooth arch over the window openings I drilled a pivot hole in a flat plastic bar and fastened it to a trim router.  The radius was four inches.


Offline pgp001

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 01:03:29 PM »
John

I have a set of castings stashed away for this engine as well.
Do you need any of the drawings or the build articles, I have them all as PDF files.

Phil

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 01:23:44 PM »
The top of all ll industrial windows seem to be either arched or rounded

The brick arch in it's various forms would be self supporting as no form of lintel was used in those days just wooden formwork known as a "centre" to support the bricks as they were laid.

Maybe I should say that I suggested the "Lincoln" range to John as they are more of a scale model than something like a Stuart No9 and should therfore be better suited to the setting he will place the engine in but not as involved as their corliss engines. There is certainly going to be more finer detailed machining required but I think the result will be well worth it. I have almost talked john into trying scratch building so there is hope for the project after this as it is getting harder to find any suitable casting sets.

J

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 03:00:23 PM »
Kind offer Phil.   Sending a PM.

Hi Jason,
Good information about laying the bricks at the top of a window over a form and a reassuring note about the choice of engine. Thank you.

The walls temporarily in place with their openings ...





« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 05:44:08 PM by J.L. »

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2019, 03:06:27 PM »
Thomas Saunders kindly gave me the brick stencils you have seen me use in the boiler room on the last diorama. This time I am going to use them in earnest and brick the entire engine room.

The speckle I use is pink. It is very easy to apply with a putty knife. You can see exacty what you are doing and you don't miss any spots, Of course when it dries, it turns white.

However, stencils are not made with gradual arcs for over the windows. Those I had to make myself from thin plastic. Jason described how they lay the bricks on end on wooden formwork called a 'centre'. The radiating look of the bricks I think, was well worth the extra effort.


Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2019, 04:29:41 PM »
The last pattern is really good and makes the previous picture look like the real thing  :ThumbsUp:

I am yet another follower of this thread  :cheers:    :popcorn:

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2019, 07:32:26 PM »
looking forwards to this...I'm sure it will be an interesting project !!!

willy

Offline scc

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2019, 09:09:04 PM »
Me too :popcorn:           Terry

Offline wagnmkr

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2019, 11:05:20 PM »
Glad to see those plastic templates being used John. The project is coming on very nicely.

Cheers

Tom
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sown up all wrong!

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2019, 11:12:11 AM »
Glad to have everyone aboard.
I've got to keep myself busy until those castings arrive.

Tom, I can't thank you enough for those templates.

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2019, 01:44:11 PM »
Coming along very well John. Those stencils really produce a fine result!!

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2019, 02:34:33 PM »
I agree fellows. The brickwork does look real when finished.

I have put a fire door in the south wall. It makes me think of my summer job days many years ago when I passed through such an opening at the Quaker Oats Company of Peterborough. Even some of the shcools I taught in had fire doors in the basement.

The boiler room is on the other side of that south wall. In many factories, I notice they build a separate boiler house not attached to the mill. It is set apart in the event of fire or explosion. Our fire door will be metal clad, but I'm sure of little use in such cases.

On December 11, 1916,  there was a devestating explosion at Quaker Oats that blew the east side of the factory into the river and ravaged the rest of the building with fire.  Recent photos can be found on Google ("The Inside Story of the 1916 Quaker Fire Released").


 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:57:26 PM by J.L. »

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2019, 02:36:30 PM »
Any idea when the castings will arrive John?

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2019, 02:38:35 PM »
Hi Bill,
No, not a clue. I hope I'm not just buildiing a glorified doll house!
John

Offline pgp001

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2019, 09:31:39 PM »
There are some casting for sale here if you get stuck.
http://www.myford-lathes.com/steam65.html

I just noticed that the currently available ones are in gunmetal, mine must be very early ones because they are all cast iron.
I much prefer iron to gunmetal because you can leave some bits unpainted and they are the correct finish, bare gunmetal does not look right on a scale engine somehow.

Phil

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2019, 11:04:20 PM »
Phil, I totally agree with you. Gunmetal just does not work for me either. The Bolton No. 7 con rod came with a gumetal casting. Can you believe that?
John

Offline J.L.

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The Firedoor
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2019, 12:28:22 PM »
The firedoor between the engine room and boiler room is metal clad - probably sheet tin. It would have been cut into panels and nailed to the wooden core of the door.

To represent these metal panels, I used a  3 in. roll of  silver sticky paper backed foil tape used by tinsmiths to seal duct joints. The panels were cut with a guillotine paper cutter. I attempted to represent the nails with dimples on the front side of the door, but gave up on that idea when I realized they would be lost in the priming and paiting processes.

Notice in the second picture that the top of the door is not parallel to the bottom of the door. It is angled eight degrees.

Edit: I just rolled white paint on the front of the door . The dimples I made around each pane to represent the nails.do show through on the front side.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 01:03:47 PM by J.L. »

Offline bent

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2019, 08:46:34 PM »
That is some neat brickwork.  And I like the idea of using the pink spackle too, lets you see where things have dried enough to move to the next bit.

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2019, 01:47:19 PM »
Thanks.

The door hangs on a track with steel roller pulleys.


Offline J.L.

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Firedoor Two
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2019, 08:35:05 PM »
This small photo (public domain) was inspiration for much of my diorama work with firedoors. The closer you look at the photo, the more you see. Notice that interesting window at the far end. This abandoned factory would be late  20th century.

My track bar is 1/8" x 1/4" x 12" cold rolled steel.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 10:17:37 AM by J.L. »

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2019, 10:15:53 AM »
The firedoor...

Offline wagnmkr

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2019, 01:06:25 PM »
Looking good as usual John ... that brickwork is nicely done. The sliding door certainly looks the part as well.

Cheers

Tom
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sown up all wrong!

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2019, 04:25:28 PM »
Thanks Tom,

Attention turns now to the east and west walls of the diorama. The window material is .30 plastic sheeting. Easy to score and snap, but the radii at the top have to be shaped on the 1" belt sander.

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2019, 12:55:04 AM »
The door looks fantastic John. Nicely done indeed.

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2019, 08:40:30 PM »
Thanks Bill.

Mullions on the right, muntins on the left - this work can cross your eyes!


Offline J.L.

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Ladders
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2019, 10:24:07 PM »
Each of the previous dioramas had at least one ladder on hooks or standing against walls. In close quarters, it would be something to wield a 12ft. ladder amongst belts and machines to get them near line shaft bearings. There would have to be several scattered around the mill floor.

I saw one vintage photo of a group of sober looking men looking at the camera with what looked like hundreds of belts rising in the background.

A pattern keeps the sides of the ladders parallel. The stringers were glued together at each end while drilling the holes.


 
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:36:28 PM by J.L. »

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2019, 11:30:10 AM »
The ladders looks great John - so I feel bad about mention that almost all ladders made from wood I've seen in my life looked like the unpainted one, except they would have been marked with stains and dirt from use ….

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2019, 07:45:46 PM »
Todays post finishes the setting of the stage for the Lincoln engine. The top ledger around the walls in photo one will seat the line shaft beams after the engine is in place.

The red arrow in photo two indicates that the east wall of the diorama is removable at this point. It will be taken out when the raised pedistal for the engine and all the railings around the pedistal are in place. I think it will give more access to what is to come.

No word on the castings from Blackgates yet.  :shrug:

John

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2019, 09:54:54 PM »
Looking great John. You will be ready for the castings whenever they arrive.

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2019, 10:17:47 PM »
Hi Bill,
Well, Blackgates hasn't come through for me yet, but today I received a 3" cast iron flywheel of quality from Martin Model & Pattern in Oregon.


Offline pgp001

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2019, 10:28:12 PM »
John

Just to whet your appetite whilst waiting, this is my casting set for the twin tandem compound version. Note these are an early set in iron not gunmetal.



I bought them second hand with only the flywheel missing, I since purchased one of those from Bob Potter before he passed the business on to Blackgates.

Phil

Offline Larry Sw

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 04:31:58 PM »
Hi John,
Just a little side note as I find your model making fascinating.
Most wooden ladders that I'm familiar with have been tapered
with the wider part at the bottom, for stability. On old wooden extension
ladders the upper sliding part was straight though.
I once had to climb all the way up a fully extended 36' wooden extension
ladder to paint the side of a building.  Boy did that thing bounce.  :(
I was much younger then BTW.

Larry S

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2019, 05:43:48 PM »
That's the opposite of my experience and I've climbed quite a few "pole" ladders on scaffolding. Wooden extensions would also need to be parallel so the wider lower one can guide the thinner upper ones.

The only common tapered type are those that were used by window cleaners as the pointed top allowed the ladder to rest on the narrow window mullions. But health and safety has stopped most using ladders around here. The old steeple jack's ladders also had a very slight taper to them

step ladders usually have a taper
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:59:21 PM by Jasonb »

Offline crueby

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2019, 08:03:26 PM »
The wood ladder we had when I was growing up (it is still at my mothers house, I still use it several times a year) had the straight upper extension, but on the lower section the bottom half did flare out at the base, but top half of it was straight, to guide the upper section. I would imagine that there were many combinations from different makers, these were all well before the ANSI standard ladder!

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2019, 09:30:52 PM »
Interesting discussion about ladders gentlemen. What I've wondered about is where the ladders rested at the top. On one model diorama, I built a wooden 'stand-off'  so the ladder stringers would not rest on the revolving line shaft. The boys could scurry up the ladders with their grease pots and lubricate the line shaft bearings.

I suppose they could have inset metal rails to the edges of the stringers for durability, but I don't think they would want the ladders to rest on the shaft.

An interesting time.

John

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2019, 06:20:56 PM »
Castings...?  :shrug:

Offline crueby

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2019, 07:26:22 PM »
Bummer on no castings yet - make up a little banner saying 'steam engine goes here' and send them a picture of that in the diorama?   :(

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2019, 01:10:32 PM »
Hi Chris,

I did send a photo of the diorama but was a little more subtle. I asked for the dimensions of the engine base while waiting to hear from them.

No response yet.  :-\

John

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2019, 01:46:18 PM »
Waiting is never fun!!  Hope you hear something son John.

Bill

Offline wagnmkr

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2019, 02:12:15 PM »
Sorry to hear the castings are taking so long.

Cheers

Tom.
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sown up all wrong!

Offline MHJ

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2019, 03:54:53 PM »
Hello John,

https://www.maidstone-engineering.com/models/casting-sets/lincon-mill-engine-cross-compound-12in-x-7-in-casting-set-drawings
gives the base size for the cross compound as 12" x 7 1/2". Hope this helps !
Regards,
H.

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2019, 08:50:55 PM »
Thank you!
Allowances for the railings and the location of the flywheel pit complicate the finished size of the raised bed. It would be guesswork without the castings.
Thought of that after I mentioned it.
Kind of you anyway.
John


Offline pgp001

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2019, 11:58:25 PM »
If there are any specific dimensions you need I could measure my castings for you.

Phil

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2019, 01:51:27 AM »
Thanks for the offer Phil, but I had specific modifications planned for the engine that would affect the sizing of the footprint of the raised bed until I had some parts assembled.

I am reather discouraged that Blackgates has chosen not to inform me of progress acquiring the castings since they took over the Lincoln line of products. I phoned and was assure by a second email inquiry that I would receive an email when the ordering of the castings would be possible.

The diorama will not proceed at this time. I have found a high end 1:24 scale metal pre-machined tender locomotive full kit to challenge me for the next few months. It will take me to another forum.

Participating here has been very enjoyable.

Cheers...John


« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 02:03:59 AM by J.L. »

Offline 10KPete

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2019, 04:03:23 AM »
Please keep on with this forum! We like all types of models.

Pete
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Retired, finally!
SB 10K lathe, Benchmaster mill. And stuff.

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2019, 01:58:47 AM »
Thanks Pete.

I have been hesitating to proceed with the model I have chosen to fill the void left with no castings for the Lincoln on this site.
The reason being that this site specializes in members machining castings or working from scratch. I have purchased a pre-machined kit that has every part and every bolt carefully laid out for assembly. It wouldn't involve the metal lathe or the mill at all.
 
 However, if that is understood and agreeable to the membership, that I build a parts made model,  I would reconsider and start a new thread.
 
The other site I mentioned is in Germany, where I built all of my architectural models in paper (card modelling). A special section was begun there  to allow models to be built in other materials.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 02:08:58 AM by J.L. »

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2019, 11:30:57 AM »
I would be curious to see it at least at some stages in the build and would also agree that it might not need a complete build series here, since the parts are pre-made - maybe some pictures showing all parts for a section like a boogie (truck) and a few of the stages in assembling it. Argh - not easy to decide detail level  :thinking:

In the end, it is your build and story + work assembling, taking picture, writing etc.

Offline Johnmcc69

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2019, 12:19:21 PM »
I think it may be quite beneficial to some of the members here to see how you prepare, assemble, & fit all the parts. Even just being a pre-machined kit, it allows new modelers a chance to get their feet wet & get a feel for how it all works.

 &....it takes away the frustrations of scrapped parts.  :Mad:

 John

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2019, 01:23:59 PM »
John, sorry that you have had the frustration with the engine castings, but your default project with the loco kit build is I'm sure, likely to interest many members, certainly myself, and it would be nice to follow your progress and , hopefully, enjoyment of that activity.   Dave

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2019, 01:58:41 PM »
I agree John, the loco build would be of interest to many so I too, hope you will start a new thread on it here.

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2019, 05:01:18 PM »
Thank you all for the support and encoruagement.
We will return here again when the Lincoln Cross Compound Mill Engine can be built into this diorama.

For now, it's off to Vehicles and Models.  :)