Author Topic: Looking for small water pump plans.  (Read 2279 times)

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Looking for small water pump plans.
« on: February 04, 2019, 08:15:17 AM »
Hi,

I've nearly completed a vertical engine similar to a Stuart no4 and now thinking of make a small boiler feedpump for it to power and be permanently coupled to.

Can any one point me in the direction of some plans to make something relatively simple but reliable in use?  I kinda thought about an eccentric driven piston pump similar to those sometimes seen on Stuart no9 engines but open to suggestions.

Thanks  :)

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12531
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 08:34:10 AM »
Almost every steam engine designed for work has one as part of the drawings.

The basic design is nothing more than a driven ram and a couple of one way valves - like the little one on Borderer.

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 01:01:28 PM »
Thanks Jo  :)

Ideally I was on the lookout from some basic plans that have dimensions so I could see what size the valve holes are and the stroke is compared to the bore. I think I could probably make one from guesswork but it would be useful to look at a proven design.

To be honest I'm not certain what size pump I need to keep my 5" boiler fed, I have a 3/8ths ram hand pump that I no longer use and I know from experience that hand operated it is inadequate but may suffice if it was constantly running to keep the water level static.

It may be worth rigging the hand pump up to a temporary eccentric on my engine output shaft to see what its realistic delivery rate is.

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6511
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2019, 01:32:45 PM »
You could base the size on the No9 pump which is 5/16" bore x 5/16" stroke or 8mm x 8mm if you prefer.

Harris's book "Model Stationary and Marine Engines" has a basic design that can be built to suit those sizes.

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 01:58:17 PM »
Thanks Jason, that kinda sounds a bit small but but I guess Stuart must have made the pump of a size capable of feeding a boiler appropriate to the engine. Really I think I need to experiment with the size by trying the hand ram I have.

It's all unknown territory to me at the moment - do you think a Stuart 10 would be capable of supplying enough water for a 5" dia boiler if its sole job was pumping water ?

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6511
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 02:08:38 PM »
Steam and therefore water usage really depends at the rate you are using it at  which will depend on speed and capacity of engine and whether it is under load or just running for fun.

It would probably be better to make a small steam pump with similar bore than to make a 10 and have that drive a separate pump.

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 02:18:10 PM »
Thanks, I guess the obvious thing is to try and make the 6" Southworth pump but at the moment I think that is beyond my skill. I have the castings for the 3" pump that I want to use on a smaller boiler but don't want to start it till I think I can build it properly.

Ultimately what I'm trying to do is have my boiler as a general use utility item with its own water tank and feedpump permanently fixed but use as little steam as I can in supplying water so that I have enough to run another engine(s).

Online steamer

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10231
  • Central Massachusetts, USA
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 02:40:58 PM »
Hi

For any boiler, ideally, you should have 3 ways to get water in the boiler, and one of those should be A  big juicy hand pump.   For small display boilers that are easy to draw the fire I would live with two means of feeding, but always have a reliable hand pump.   

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 03:02:34 PM »
Hi Dave,

The intention is to have some form of powered feed with a 5/8ths ram hand pump as a back up. At the moment the hand pump can deliver enough water but it's a pain if my engine is revving hard as my boiler is thirsty.  :headscratch:

Online steamer

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10231
  • Central Massachusetts, USA
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 03:14:06 PM »
Yup  hand pump is annoying, but if you didnt have one, and wanted practice before you made the  steam pump...make the hand pump. ....engine driven is primary is a good plan.

Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline AOG

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 03:36:03 PM »
Here is a separate pump that can be made from bar stock (one of Elmer’s). You could  scale it to meet your needs.

http://www.john-tom.com/ElmersEngines/49_donkeyPump.pdf

Tony

Offline kvom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 05:40:55 PM »
The axle pump on the Kozo A3 has a 0.4" stroke with a .25" ram, valves are 5/32 balls.  Everything is doubled for the 1.5" scale loco with a 6" boiler.

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 06:57:08 PM »
Thanks guys, that Elmers pump looks reasonably easy to make and is something to consider  :)

Offline Firebird

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1033
  • East Midlands UK
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 08:21:21 PM »
Hi Gas_mantle

This might be of some use to you, its a hand pump I built a while back and has been very reliable. I have recently used it to hydraulic test my loco boiler

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,336.msg2089.html#msg2089

Cheers

Rich

Offline Gas_mantle

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1333
  • North Yorks - UK.
    • My Youtube channel
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 08:28:22 PM »
Thanks Rich that's very useful, it's the kind of thing I'm after and should be fairly easy to convert to power operation  :)

Online crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8782
  • Rochester NY
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 08:45:51 PM »
Hi Gas_mantle

This might be of some use to you, its a hand pump I built a while back and has been very reliable. I have recently used it to hydraulic test my loco boiler

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,336.msg2089.html#msg2089

Cheers

Rich
Rich, thats a slick setup with the o-rings, had not seen that before, seems like it should hold better than the steel ball method on seats that are not perfect. Interesting!
Chris

Offline Firebird

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1033
  • East Midlands UK
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 09:53:05 PM »
Hi

Yes its a lot easier to get the O rings to seal than balls. It will pump a 100psi no problem and hold without dropping pressure

Cheers

Rich

Offline mnay

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 69
Re: Looking for small water pump plans.
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 07:34:11 PM »
the o rings are a great idea!!!!!
I have trouble with the balls sealing, especially after they sit unused for a month or two.
Mike