Author Topic: Edwards 5 Cylinders.  (Read 1980 times)

Offline glorfindel

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Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« on: January 12, 2019, 12:32:31 AM »
Hi, here is my Edwards radial 5 project.

I have made cylinders with 6061T6 and the sleeves with C12L14. I also 3d printed some of the parts for mocking up purpose.

I mostly follow the plan and adapting some parts to my taste/tooling.

First question: Can i get ride of the oil pump and use pre mixed rc fuel??

images will follow soon...

« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:38:21 AM by glorfindel »

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 12:41:12 AM »
Sorry, tapatalk is acting weird



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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 01:20:09 AM »
Sorry, tapatalk is acting weird



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As to eliminating the oil pump.....I wouldn't.   As I remember on that engine, it's a pretty simple plunger pump, and it was put there by an experienced model engine builder who designed it...so saying that I would say no.    Why?

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 01:22:23 AM »
Because i already got about 20 gallons of rc fuel with oil i  it. ;-)

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 11:55:02 PM »
Did the manifold today. No particular problems, jus a little bit worried about the small 2-56 tap.

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 12:34:28 AM »
Great start!

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline petertha

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 03:16:15 AM »
glorfindel, nice start on the engine.

Someone on another forum was asking about Edwards compression ratio. Since you have developed 3D CAD model, is it possible for you to determine? It looks like the design called for trimming the lips of the cylinder liner to achieve equal CR's across the cylinders. I noticed the link rod holes are phased equal 72-deg therefore the CR's would be a bit different purely by stroke geometry assuming identical rods & pistons. So this trimming would make sense to achieve both equalization & specific desired CR (within limits).

I cant answer your oil premix question directly but FYI I am building an Ohrndorf 5-cylinder radial of similar displacement. It uses conventional oil premix RC fuel as opposed to Edwards prescribed straight methanol & separate oil pump. My nose case chamber is sealed from crankcase with O-ring & has a splash oil bath to lubricate cam plates & planetary gears. On the rear of crankcase is the induction manifold plate assembly. Fuel mixture is drawn in from the rear carb, mists over the rear of the master rod assembly & then exits out the individual induction tube up to the head. I could provide some CAD pics if that helps visualize. Mine is not completed yet so I cant tell you how it runs. But its the same principle as his 9-cylinder. https://www.engineman.de/en/

I can share details of I would have to look at Edwards oil circuit more closely to compare.

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 03:31:47 AM »
glorfindel, nice start on the engine.

Someone on another forum was asking about Edwards compression ratio. Since you have developed 3D CAD model, is it possible for you to determine? It looks like the design called for trimming the lips of the cylinder liner to achieve equal CR's across the cylinders. I noticed the link rod holes are phased equal 72-deg therefore the CR's would be a bit different purely by stroke geometry assuming identical rods & pistons. So this trimming would make sense to achieve both equalization & specific desired CR (within limits).

I cant answer your oil premix question directly but FYI I am building an Ohrndorf 5-cylinder radial of similar displacement. It uses conventional oil premix RC fuel as opposed to Edwards prescribed straight methanol & separate oil pump. My nose case chamber is sealed from crankcase with O-ring & has a splash oil bath to lubricate cam plates & planetary gears. On the rear of crankcase is the induction manifold plate assembly. Fuel mixture is drawn in from the rear carb, mists over the rear of the master rod assembly & then exits out the individual induction tube up to the head. I could provide some CAD pics if that helps visualize. Mine is not completed yet so I cant tell you how it runs. But its the same principle as his 9-cylinder. https://www.engineman.de/en/

I can share details of I would have to look at Edwards oil circuit more closely to compare.
Yes, i did it in Catia and to have 8.5:1, as suggested, the lip must be .150". (Master rod)

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« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:35:21 AM by glorfindel »

Online rutje

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 11:56:44 AM »
good start.
I built also the radial engine based on the edwards plan.
I redraw it in 3d cad and modified it to metrical.
On recommendation from a experience builder I removed the oil pump. also 2 sections, 1 with regular oil in the cam section. In the other section the carburator is connected directly on the back of the 2nd section. so the methanol with 8% klotz will lube the inside. the intake for the 5 cylinders is connected on the back of the engine.

do you have plans to use this engine on a model plane?

regards,

Timo

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 12:38:13 PM »
good start.
I built also the radial engine based on the edwards plan.
I redraw it in 3d cad and modified it to metrical.
On recommendation from a experience builder I removed the oil pump. also 2 sections, 1 with regular oil in the cam section. In the other section the carburator is connected directly on the back of the 2nd section. so the methanol with 8% klotz will lube the inside. the intake for the 5 cylinders is connected on the back of the engine.

do you have plans to use this engine on a model plane?

regards,

Timo
No.

The funny thing is that i was in rc planes from 1995 to 2010 then get bored. I was one of the first to fly an rc jet here, with a Wren mw54 turbine.

I will use the engine in my classes for different projects next fall. My goal is to make it run before june 16 ;-)

Thx for the info about lubrification.



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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 05:56:41 PM »
Did another one, didnt like the finish on the first one.





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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 04:52:55 PM »
Hi guys. I have a question about the manifold cover.

Why did he offset the carburator????

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Offline petertha

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2019, 07:10:02 PM »
I haven't built one but the intake manifold collection tube housing / carb mount looks to be on center according to the plans rear view. Is that what you mean?
If you mean the alignment of the facets, that probably pertains to helping with intake tube bending & the flanges etc. but just a guess

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2019, 08:27:33 PM »
Look, the carb is not in the center of the manifold cover.

Why????

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Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2019, 09:24:59 PM »
Newer seen the drawings so I'm only guessing here .... is there a vane pump on the inside ?

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2019, 09:54:27 PM »
Newer seen the drawings so I'm only guessing here .... is there a vane pump on the inside ?
Nope.

But i think i got the answer. Look at the drawing, there is 2 intakes tube that are higher on the manifold ( to prevent hydrolock of bottom cylinders ) , i guess the offset in the cover is for centering the carbs vs the intakes tubes.

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Offline petertha

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 05:35:21 AM »
I think you might be right there. I always wondered about that. Without the elevated tube ends in the manifold, any fuel flooding from the carb would drain directly down the lower induction tubes & sit in the head ports until valve opened & then bad things happen. Makes sense.

On my radial, different induction path as mentioned previously. But that makes my liquid accumulation sump the master rod groove in the crankcase. At least only fuel vapor can go to heads, but I am making provisions for a drain plug in the bottom of crankcase.

Anyway good observation.

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 09:11:47 PM »
New parts.

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Offline Art K

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2019, 02:23:29 AM »
I have started following along. Amazing how much you miss when you travel. I have seen other builds on the Edwards radial 5 but I think they were on different forums. I have 2 radials on my bucket list the Kinner K5 in SIC and Jemma also in SIC, someday.
Art
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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 10:52:16 PM »
Did the pistons today. I changed the ring groove to 1mm( 0.039") instead of 0.0325" because i already had the 1mm grooving tool, so i adjusted the pattern.

I will make the ring 0.008" thicker.


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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2019, 12:16:59 AM »
Nice looking piston!    What lathe is that?

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2019, 12:27:20 AM »
Nice looking piston!    What lathe is that?

Dave
DMG 1250CTX mill/turn. A nice toy :-)

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2019, 12:32:51 AM »
LOL   :lolb:   Yeah Mori's usually are.    Sweet!

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 01:58:53 AM »
Honned the cylinders a little bit.

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 02:30:54 PM »
We got a little problem with the 1250 post-processor, so i decided to change the rocker shape to make it easier to program directly on the cnc.

I'm little bit lighter, same strengh.

Will try to cnc it this afternoon.

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2019, 09:33:15 PM »
Did the rockers today.

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Offline dieselpilot

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 02:32:25 PM »
Nice!  DMG 1250CTX :P

Online yogi

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2019, 06:51:56 AM »
Very nice!!!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Keep the pictures coming...  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2019, 05:09:43 PM »
Done.

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 03:32:17 PM »
Will do this one today

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Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2019, 03:46:17 PM »
Nice work on those rockers!!

Bill

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2019, 03:44:11 AM »
Nice work on those rockers!!

Bill
Thx, small parts are new to me lol!!!

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Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2019, 12:29:52 PM »
Cam ring and MasterRod are done.

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Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2019, 08:53:54 PM »
You keep on making some very nice part - admittedly with some tools most of us can only dream of - but still, a very nice master rod for sure   :cheers:

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #34 on: Today at 12:06:21 AM »
I've actually never seen a saw quite like that one.   That's pretty cool!...


Works well too

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline glorfindel

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #35 on: Today at 12:41:42 AM »
You keep on making some very nice part - admittedly with some tools most of us can only dream of - but still, a very nice master rod for sure   :cheers:
I've actually never seen a saw quite like that one.   That's pretty cool!...


Works well too

Dave
Thx guys, i'm very lucky to have access to those nice cnc.

It's a 5 axis mill, so tools are usually very long to be able to clear the table/vise in every positions.

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Online steamer

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #36 on: Today at 12:45:02 AM »
Yeah!    A 5 axis would be nice!!!!!   :lolb:

Keep it coming!  I'm diggin this

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline Art K

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Re: Edwards 5 Cylinders.
« Reply #37 on: Today at 01:33:38 AM »
I must admit that having a 4 axis Tormach is a blessing. I am able to do many things I wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Art
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