Author Topic: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine  (Read 19062 times)

Offline stevehuckss396

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #165 on: April 15, 2019, 02:03:13 AM »
I use diagonal cutters to split my rings. They work well and I have never had one break. Just need to take a few seconds to get squared up before squeezing. Here is a link to a pair so you can see what i'm talking about but any diagonal will work.

https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-70-01-110-Diagonal/dp/B005EXO71G
Do not be like the cat who wanted a fish but was afraid to get his paws wet.

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #166 on: April 15, 2019, 10:08:19 PM »
Thanks Steve. I hadn't thought of doing it that way. Something to try next time!

Steve   :)

Online Vixen

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #167 on: April 15, 2019, 10:34:19 PM »
Hello Steve

You've made some pretty rapid progress over the last few weeks. Well done, it looks great. Not too long before you fire it up.

Keep up the good work

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Offline yogi

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2019, 11:41:46 PM »
Fantastic progress Steve! 
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline bent

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #169 on: April 16, 2019, 03:42:03 PM »
That's looking great Steve! :popcorn:

Offline Roger B

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #170 on: April 16, 2019, 07:31:39 PM »
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: Like Steve Hucks I use what I call side cutters to split my piston rings.
Best regards

Roger

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #171 on: April 16, 2019, 09:25:26 PM »
Thanks Chaps, you are all very kind.

To be honest, I feel I am making rather a meal of it. No part is giving in without a fight and I am taking much longer than I should do. so far, I have managed to dig myself out of the various holes I have been in but I shouldn't have fallen in in the first place! Never mind. All a good learning experience.

Steve  :)

Offline TobyTetzy

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #172 on: April 18, 2019, 10:01:58 AM »
Hello Steve,

because you build a really nice engine. Very nice.
I looked at the engine on Kornmüller's homepage years ago.

Somewhere I had read that there were the cylinders in two versions. With and without core.
Yours do not have a core, how do you then do the water cooling, or do you refrain from it?

On Konrmüller's homepage was also something about the history of the engine. Unfortunately, there is nothing to see.

My research on this engine revealed the following.
The engine comes from a Daimler (DMG) airship engine B4L. This had an overhead camshaft.
Then Daimler built in 1909 the first aircraft engine B4F as a prototype.
This one had the gears lying inside.
This resulted in 1910 slightly modified D4F, with modified sump and external gears.
Below is a picture of the original.

ARGUS also built a similar engine. This was called Type 4 engine.
By the way, ARGUS also built the Schmidt-Argus-Pipe, Argus As 014, a blast jet engine that was used in the Fieseler Fi 103 (V1 rocket).
That's a sad story though.

Greeting Toby

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #173 on: April 18, 2019, 01:41:17 PM »
Steve, I am playing catch up again on your build but you are making some really great progress on a wonderful project. Thanks for sharing the trials and tribulations as well.

Bill

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #174 on: April 18, 2019, 08:10:49 PM »
Hi Toby!

That is marvellous! I haven't managed to find an original photo of the engine. Thank you so much for posting it. It explains a number of Heinz's features. I really couldn't understad why the breather was drawn the shape it has been and this explains it. What a wonderful find!

May I ask another question? Do you know what the makers plate would have looked like and where it was fitted? Little things like that really finish off a model.

Thanks again for the pic. You have made my day!

Steve   ;D :ThumbsUp:

Offline TobyTetzy

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #175 on: April 18, 2019, 10:09:20 PM »
Hello Steve,

Here are two pictures of the J4F engine.
It was the first aircraft engine built by DMG.
1908-1909
Type: In-Line, water cooling
Status: prototype
Power: 115-120 hp
Piston diameter: 120 mm
Preserved samples: no
On the first picture you can see the nameplate.

The sump has been reduced in the D4F (your Engine) to save weight.
The D4F was probably the first engine that was really built into a plane.
1909
Status: Serial number
Copies: unknown
Power 60 hp at 1,400 rpm;
Diameter / stroke: 110/140 mm;
Volume: 5.32 l;
Weight: 120 kg;
Preserved samples: no

In the E4F, the gears were placed in the oil sump.
E4F (F 1244)
1910-1913
Status: serial number
Number of copies: Unknown
Technical specifications
Power 70 hp at 1,400 rpm;
Diameter / piston stroke: 120/140 mm;
Volume: 6.4 liters.
Weight: 130 kg;
Copies received: Technical Museum, Munich (early version), Museum of Science and Technology, Berlin (later version).
Since the nameplate also looks quite good.

I'm still looking for drawings of these engines. Unfortunately, I have not found anything yet.
From the 6 cylinder Mercedes D.II / D.III there are many more drawings.
It is probably because the engines were built only from 1909 to 1913. After that, only stronger 6 cylinder Mercedes engines were used.
It's an interesting story of these engines, if you are concerned with it a little bit.

Greeting Toby

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #176 on: April 18, 2019, 10:51:54 PM »
Thank you Toby. They are fabulous pictures and just what I wanted. It is great to have the history too. I just couldn't track anything down before. What a wonderful thing this forum is!

I really must get on with it and make it go now!

Steve    ;D

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #177 on: April 20, 2019, 11:01:53 PM »
Hi Steve.  I'm one of the ones who has been silently following along.. this is an interesting project and is going to make a very nice model.  I'm commiserating as I read because you're having some of the the same problems I'm having with the Frisco.  Your work is just superb.  Can't wait to see it done and running.
Craig

Offline Lars

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #178 on: May 08, 2019, 03:16:53 PM »
Steve,

I just joined the site (I made an introduction on myself in the intro section) and saw your posts on the Mercedes engine. I am building one myself and it is great to see you progress !

I started work on mine 2 years ago (I do have a tendency to get distracted on other intreseting projects) and I just this weekend tried to start it. Unfortunately it did not start very well so I have alot of tuning in front of me, starting with a leaking exhaust valve that I will have to re-lap.

It is very interesting to see your approach. Very similar to mine on many steps! 

Keep up the good work!

Lars

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2019, 09:55:14 PM »
Glad you are enjoying it Craig. My work isn't superb, just adequate but it is very nice of you to say so. If I was good at this, I wouldn't dig myself into so many holes!

I like to show the tribulations as well (thanks Bill) as those are the learning points. It is nice if you can learn from someone else's mistakes rather than your own.

Welcome along Lars! This seems to be a fairly uncommon engine and it is nice to see another one. Yours does look good and I wish I had been able to ask you about the crankshaft before I did mine! Please could you post a few more pictures of it? Are you running on glow plugs or spark ignition? I am coming to that stage fairly soon but the drawings are a bit thin on detail. They do show a contact breaker and distributor but no clues as to how to produce the HT. I could really do with some guidance in that area. The contact breaker is a hall switch but I know it doesn't have the capacity to drive a coil directly so I should very much appreciate your thoughts. In fact, I shall make that a general question for all of my friends here. Someone will know!

On to an update. Slow progress again but some. I turned up the breather tube and sweated a piece of gauze across the top by first tinning the end of the tube and then just warming it whilst pressed onto the gauze.



I didn't completely block the gauze with solder and just trimmed the edges. so I was pleased with that result. I need to drill a hole for it in the top half of the crank case but the position is undefined on the drawing so will have to give it some thought.



Then the oil filler tube and cap. Another nice little milling exercise followed by a needle file to give it some shape.





Water pump next. This is a casting with a thoughtfully provided chucking piece.





After facing and boring, I mounted it in the four-jaw a bit eccentric and bored the water way such that it got wider towards the pump exit. Not quite a volute but giving the same effect.





In the model, the pump is mounted on the end of the crankshaft. The drawing shows two M2 tapped holes in the back but I cannot see what they might be for. They are aligned with the joint line between bush and housing and there is no way of getting a bolt through from the back. Lars, how have you mounted your pump?



Then the impellor, mounted in the dividing head to have the vanes milled.







Cam follower bushes next with a press jig to push them into the casing all the same amount.









And the followers, a relaxing turning job.



The exhaust pipes are mounted by screwing into the block and securing with a brass collar slotted for a C-spanner.







A perfect fit for my micrometer spanner!



Ever thinking about the next jobs, bending the exhaust pipes and the inlet manifold is going to be a real challenge. Both are 8mm dia and bent on a very tight radius of 12-18mm. I can see some difficulties here. Has anyone ever made a mandrel pipe bender in this size and published the drawings?

Steve  :)