Author Topic: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine  (Read 19766 times)

Online Jo

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #120 on: February 03, 2019, 08:02:24 AM »
 8) That's the hardest bit finished.

I'll have to have a think about making a proper bearing for when I get around to milling our one  :noidea:

Any chance of a copy of your cam milling table Steve  :)

Jo
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Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #121 on: February 03, 2019, 08:19:12 AM »
I make my camshafts out of O-1 drill rod and the lifters from 12L14. The lifters are the softer material and would wear before the camshaft. The camshafts are unhardened.

Thanks Steve. That is what I hoped you would say! Once the engine has run a couple of times, it will undoubtably become a dust collector on the shelf. Complete waste of time really!

Steve  :)

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #122 on: February 03, 2019, 08:21:59 AM »

Any chance of a copy of your cam milling table Steve  :)

Jo

No problem, I will send it on. Mind you, don't go doing anything with it until I have run the engine. I may have two clockwise cylinders and two anti-clockwise!

Steve  :)

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #123 on: February 03, 2019, 01:43:35 PM »
Some fantastic progress Steve. I am catching up from the post on finishing out the gears and forward. Learning a lot here from your posts and the contributions of others regarding the cams especially.

Bill

Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #124 on: February 03, 2019, 09:16:07 PM »
Glad you are enjoying it Bill. Don't just copy me though as I don't know what I am doing. I just make it up as I go along!

The time is ripe for putting the holes through the crank case, a job I have not been relishing. I started off by making up a boring bar. Of course, I didn't have a piece of 7/16" long enough so I turned a bit of 1/2" down. This was the excuse I needed to try the travelling steady. I have had it for years but not used it until today!





I set the crank case on the vertical slide and bolted it on making sure that the nuts were below the hole.



Then secured the sump using all of the bolt holes available.



Centred and the drilled through the first part with a nice new 5/16" drill.



I had previously made an extended centre drill for which I deliberately used 5/16" rod so that it would closely fit the hole. I very gingerly drilled the centre bearing by feel alone.



I drilled gently through, centred again and then used the extra long drill, kindly donated by a pal, to go right through.



As you can see, it did wander a bit.



Then I went through with the half-inch. This followed the hole as you might expect.



Then it was out with the boring bar. This followed the correct aligmment so if I bore it out enough, I will pull the exit hole back into line. However, it is proving to be a horrible thing to use, chattering terribly. Whilst trying to adjust the bit, I flicked it out and dropped it behind the lathe. Now, my housekeeping behind the lathe is not very good but as this is the only piece of 1/8" HSS I have, I had to find it. The space behind the lathe is now spotless! The HSS had bounced off the wall and landed back in the lathe bed and I found it after I had cleaned up. Oh well, it needed doing.



I shall persist with the boring bar but it is ghastly. The hole will end up oversize for sure but at least they will be in line. The next problem will be the camshaft hole (5/16"dia) and the only thing I can do with that is drill it through. I will start at the timing gear end as at least the gears will mesh properly.

Not enjoying this bit.

Cheers!

Steve    :disappointed:


Offline sco

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #125 on: February 03, 2019, 09:27:54 PM »
Steve,

Wondering if the boring bar is whirling - I would have the minimum hanging out of the chuck you can get away with and not too much end pressure from the tailstock centre and keep the speed down.

Thanks for posting the ups and downs of your progress as will be invaluable when I make a start on mine.

Simon.
Ars longa, vita brevis.

Online Jo

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #126 on: February 03, 2019, 09:32:54 PM »
Hi Steve,

For some reason that first pic reminded me of one you sent me many years ago where you had a long shaft (probably a bit of lorry  ::) ) held in a three jaw chuck and supported by that fixed steady with no tailstock and the bar hanging almost to your shed door.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you  :)

Jo

P.S. Spare bits of 1/8th HSS become available every time I break the ends off a small centre drill  :-X
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Offline Old Bill

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #127 on: February 03, 2019, 09:45:47 PM »
That would be this one I should think. An entire lorry steering column!



I was very concious of this one whirling so I turned it very slowly. Fortunately, I had only to clean up the bearing surface at the top. It was all successful but I did get a roasting when I posted it on another forum a few years ago.

This boring bar could certainly whirl so I have been running it slowly. I can't hold it any closer to the chuck as it needs the clearance to run the crank case right through.

I must be missing the point somewhere but I can't see it at the moment!

Steve  :)

Offline steamer

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #128 on: February 03, 2019, 10:30:32 PM »
Glad you are enjoying it Bill. Don't just copy me though as I don't know what I am doing. I just make it up as I go along!

The time is ripe for putting the holes through the crank case, a job I have not been relishing. I started off by making up a boring bar. Of course, I didn't have a piece of 7/16" long enough so I turned a bit of 1/2" down. This was the excuse I needed to try the travelling steady. I have had it for years but not used it until today!





I set the crank case on the vertical slide and bolted it on making sure that the nuts were below the hole.



Then secured the sump using all of the bolt holes available.



Centred and the drilled through the first part with a nice new 5/16" drill.



I had previously made an extended centre drill for which I deliberately used 5/16" rod so that it would closely fit the hole. I very gingerly drilled the centre bearing by feel alone.



I drilled gently through, centred again and then used the extra long drill, kindly donated by a pal, to go right through.



As you can see, it did wander a bit.



Then I went through with the half-inch. This followed the hole as you might expect.



Then it was out with the boring bar. This followed the correct aligmment so if I bore it out enough, I will pull the exit hole back into line. However, it is proving to be a horrible thing to use, chattering terribly. Whilst trying to adjust the bit, I flicked it out and dropped it behind the lathe. Now, my housekeeping behind the lathe is not very good but as this is the only piece of 1/8" HSS I have, I had to find it. The space behind the lathe is now spotless! The HSS had bounced off the wall and landed back in the lathe bed and I found it after I had cleaned up. Oh well, it needed doing.



I shall persist with the boring bar but it is ghastly. The hole will end up oversize for sure but at least they will be in line. The next problem will be the camshaft hole (5/16"dia) and the only thing I can do with that is drill it through. I will start at the timing gear end as at least the gears will mesh properly.

Not enjoying this bit.

Cheers!

Steve    :disappointed:

Bill Make sure the bit is ground so that the cutting force is ONLY pointed parallel to the boring bar.   It will cut much smoother if it does.

If you can put a steady on that bar to take 2 of the three bearings, and then move the steady on the other side and support the bar from there for the last bearing, it will help.



Dave
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!

Offline steamer

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #129 on: February 03, 2019, 10:34:58 PM »
This is what Im getting on about....like this

Not a great image, but you can see it ...The cutting force is directly along the boring bar, and it will cut much cleaner and with less likelihood of chatter...

Make sure it's got some outside relief so it doesn't rub...

If I'm telling you how to suck eggs...I'm sorry   please forgive me....I want to reach through the screen and help...but I can't ...arms not long enough.. 8)

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Offline Vixen

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #130 on: February 03, 2019, 10:35:36 PM »
Hello Steve,

By definition, the overall length of the boring bar would need to at least twice the length of the crankcase and as you have found, it is in great danger of whirling and vibration.

For my Mercedes W165 I was proposing to align and support the boring bar by running it through two bronze bearings bolted to the front and rear faces of the crankcase. This will reduce the unsupported length of a slender boring bar to the very minimum ie. the length of the crankcase.

This may be one answer to your problems. Other members may have different ideas and  may achieve different mileage.

Good luck

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Offline steamer

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #131 on: February 03, 2019, 10:37:45 PM »
The other thing you could do is steady the bar with a steady rest and bore the first one.  Put a close fitting bushing in the hole, and move the steady to the other side, and complete the other two holes.   The bush will support the bar.   Keep it lubed!...

Dave
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Offline steamer

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #132 on: February 03, 2019, 10:38:22 PM »
Mike beat me to it!!!     :lolb:
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Offline Vixen

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #133 on: February 03, 2019, 10:40:11 PM »
Dave,

You slowing down, or what? :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:

Mike
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Offline steamer

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Re: 1909 Mercedes Aero Engine
« Reply #134 on: February 03, 2019, 10:48:54 PM »
Dave,

You slowing down, or what? :lolb: :lolb: :lolb:

Mike

Evidently!    :old:
"Mister M'Andrew, don't you think steam spoils romance at sea?"
Damned ijjit!