Author Topic: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock  (Read 29596 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2018, 01:59:07 AM »
I've been kind of expecting that this would happen. The length of the valve stem (which has to be this long to allow for a spring and spring retainer) dictates where the rocker arm and pivot should go. The "cam follower bearing" is a bearing I happened to have already, which measures 0.864" diameter. The diameter of the cam follower bearing dictates where the rotary cam has to be. As a consequence of this, the governor will have to move to the left as far as I can take it.--I'll do that tomorrow.

Offline gbritnell

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1988
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2018, 02:18:56 AM »
Brian,
I'm curious! How does the governor interact with the exhaust valve? Will there be some sort of linkage and levers going up to the rocker arm?
The reason helical gears are used to drive the camshaft is because by using gears with a different helix angle you can get their diameters almost the same and still have a 2:1 ratio. If you used bevel gears you would first need to get one large enough to fit onto the crankshaft and then the cam gear needing to be twice as large would put the camshaft spacing way out from the crankcase.
gbritnell
Talent unshared is talent wasted.

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6682
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2018, 07:32:07 AM »
That's going to be a long linkage to get from governor to rocker arm, can you not move the whole governor rearwards, may even be able to have the large bevel gear past the back of the hopper so you don't need to cut clearance notches.

Regarding the liner, why not make it like the engine you bassed on the Bobcat/Jaguar with just a small lip that fits into a recess and then the head holds it in place. This is how most of the casting kit H&M engines are done.

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2018, 01:13:54 PM »
Thanks for your posts guys. As I said in my last post, I kind of expected this would happen. I have to move the governor to the extreme left side limits of the water jacket now so I can see what form the linkage will take.---Brian

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6682
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2018, 02:51:47 PM »
You could also save some length by ditching the bearing, a 1/2" dia steel roller will do as the cam follower.


Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2018, 06:32:48 PM »
It has been a very interesting morning, trying to find room for the governor up near the head of the engine.--And it wasn't until I had spent 2 hours moving it up there that I realized the governor works in reverse to what I needed.--So, the governor pivot was moved to the other side of the stem post centerline. This allows the governor to work the way I needed it to. I have attached two pictures--One shows the governor engaged and locking out the exhaust valve by preventing the rocker arm from rocking to close the exhaust valve. The other picture shows the governor disengaged, which allows the rocker arm to rock normally and open and close the exhaust valve.


Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6682
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2018, 06:54:28 PM »
You might find that round pin does not hold, usual to have a hardened steel plate with an angled notch for better location and matching angled end to the lever. Plate is slotted for fine adjustment


Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2018, 07:19:23 PM »
Thank you Jason. Any knowledge is good knowledge this early in the game.---Brian

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2018, 09:43:15 PM »
I haven't given up nor ran away. There is an amazing amount of farting around, making small bits, and fitting to this governor. I only have a couple of small spacers yet to make, and the "bump" which gets silver soldered to the brass part in the foreground, for the governor to push on when engaged. Everything else on the entire engine is just repeats of work I have done before, but I want to assemble and test run the governor first.

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2018, 06:50:04 PM »
Here's a new wrinkle on this type of governor. Obviously you need a spring like the yellow one to move the governor weights and associated bits back into the "not engaged" position when the engine slows down and the governor weights are no longer swung out away from the stempost by centrifugal force. However, I've had to add an extra threaded post and a couple of nuts to prevent the governor from moving too far into the engaged position. If the governor weights fly out at any more than a 40 degree angle, they get jammed there and won't come back into the correct position.

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6682
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2018, 06:59:42 PM »
Brian, could you not just have fitted a small hex nut or threaded sleeve to go on the red rod that fitted inside the spring to act as a stop. kill two birds with one stone rather than over engineer it.

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2018, 09:26:20 PM »
Jason--I thought of that, but look at the size of the yellow standard hex nuts on that red shaft. Even though I could have made smaller nuts that would fit inside the spring, they would be difficult to get at to adjust.

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2018, 01:21:38 AM »
If you remember, when I was first looking at this project I purchased a set of 2:1 ratio helical gears off Ebay. The cost was under $12 US funds, so I ordered them, figuring "What do I have to lose?". I went ahead and bought  a different set of helical gears from DeBolt for $75 US and they arrived promptly and they were fine. I've been deluged by a spate of "real work" to the point where I haven't been able to do any work on this new engine recently. Today my Ebay gears came in the mail, and I'm quite impressed. The Ebay gears are in the foreground, with the gears from DeBolt setting closer to the partly finished governor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-30T-15T-Metal-Helical-Wheel-Gear-90-Pairing-Bevel-Gearing-Set-Kit-Ratio-2-1-/262691511022

Offline Brian Rupnow

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Barrie, Ontario Canada
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2018, 06:22:46 PM »
Yesterday afternoon and this morning, I've finally found enough time to finish this governor. I must admit, I had serious doubts about this one working. However, Craig DeShong just completed a hit and miss engine that was bought as a casting kit, using the same design (I copied his) and he got stellar results. His engine runs beautifully. I haven't done anything yet on the actual engine, because I've built as number of previous internal combustion engines, and there will be nothing really "new" about this one----Except the governor.

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1496
  • Deep East Texas on Sam Rayburn Lake
Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2018, 06:37:15 PM »
Hello Brian,

Seems to operate very smoothly.

Have a great day,
Thomas