Author Topic: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock  (Read 26713 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« on: November 14, 2018, 05:44:19 PM »
I have spent enough hours this summer frittering away my shop hours on flame-sucker engines, Sterling engines, and clutches. My plan for the coming winter is to design and build a side-shaft hit and miss engine from bar-stock. I have built enough engines now that the only really "new" thing will be the gears that run the side-shaft, and the governor that controls the "hit and miss" action. I hope to purchase gears, bearings, etcetera from commercial dealers so that when I eventually have a running engine, other people will be able to buy the same parts from the same dealers. The engine will be water cooled, with a horizontal cylinder, 1" bore and 1 3/8" stroke. The intake will be an atmospheric valve with no cam to actuate it. Probably about 90% of this engine will be similar to parts I have machined before on the Kerzel and the "Odds and Ends" engine from Philip Duclos. I don't plan on using a Viton o-ring for a piston ring, because although they create a wonderful seal on the piston, I think they have enough residual "drag" that they prevent the engine from having very many "miss" cycles. In fact, I hope to use no rings at all, but will lap the piston into the cylinder for an air tight fit like I did on my marine engine. I hope to aim for a compression ratio of about 4.5:1. Ignition will be the Dodge points and condenser that I have used on all of my other i.c. engines. Both piston and cylinder will be grey cast iron, and the flywheels (2-of) will be 6" diameter. I am still doing research on the cam and governors, and haven't fully decided what I will use. Whatever it is will no doubt be a copy of someone else's successful design.---Brian Rupnow

Online crueby

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 06:56:01 PM »
Sounds like a great plan.

Just refilled the popcorn jar....
 :LickLips:

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2018, 07:25:32 PM »
Hello Brian,

Count me in, this should make for a perfect winter project.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline gbritnell

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 07:54:19 PM »
Hi Brian,
The problem you'll run into is finding the helical gears. Stock Drive Products only sells 45 degree helical gears so getting a 2:1 ratio within the size constraints of the flywheel and base will be nearly impossible.
The really neat thing about helical gears is that by changing the helix angle the tooth count for a given diametral pitch changes so as on my little engine one gear has a helix angle of 30 degrees and one 60 degrees. This way to get the 2:1 ratio to run the cam the gears come out almost identical in diameter. After Chuck Fellows came up with his helical gear cutting fixture I have made quite a few helical gear sets and as I am want to do when I am learning something new I read a lot of information on helical gears and how to develop them.
They aren't really that hard to make, they just take a little practice and patience. I know that there are 2:1 gear sets available because they were sold with some casting kits so maybe you could chase down those casting providers and see where they got theirs.
gbritnell
Talent unshared is talent wasted.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2018, 08:01:51 PM »
I have been in touch with Craig DeShong who is currently building a side shaft hit and miss engine from a casting kit. He tells me that his helical gears came as part of the casting kit he purchased. He did tell me that the gears were from "Martin" in the USA and gave me a part number that was on the package. I haven't really had time to chase this down with Martin. I did order a set of helical gears of Ebay, but God knows what I will actually get. I looked at the pdf about making helical gears posted by Chuck Fellows and the information posted by you, but it looks pretty daunting.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 08:56:59 PM »
I have checked out the two part numbers for the helical gears from "Martin" in USA that are on the engine being built by Craig DeShong. The 12 tooth helical gear is part #BS1612-2 and sells for $38 USA. The 24 tooth helical gear is part #BS1624-2 and sells for $63 USA. That comes out at $101 American money and $133 Canadian money. Ouch!!! Maybe it's a good thing that I'm rich instead of good looking.

Offline Dave Otto

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Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 09:13:07 PM »
Thanks Dave--That is a much better price.---Brian

Offline gbritnell

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 09:24:04 PM »
The gear centers would seem to be a little wide for an engine with a 1.00 bore.
Talent unshared is talent wasted.

Offline kuhncw

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 11:32:45 PM »
Brian, I sent you a PM.

Chuck

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 11:47:31 PM »
Chuck--I answered you, but when I tried to send it the whole damn thing disappeared.  I am dickering with a Canadian company right now to supply the gears, but I'm not sure of the outcome yet. Thanks for letting me know.---Brian

Offline kuhncw

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 11:51:17 PM »
Ok Brian,

No problem.  Let me know if interested at some point.

Chuck

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 01:31:57 AM »
Chuck--I just sent you a private message.---Brian

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2018, 01:42:52 PM »
And as it unwinds--the part numbers I got from Craig DeShong are for straight tooth bevel gears, not helical gears. I think he may have mistakenly given me part numbers for the governor gears on his engine, not the helical gears. The prices I gave in an earlier post were for straight tooth bevel gears, not helical gears.--I will still probably have to buy those gears, as I do intend to have a governor on the new engine I design. DeBolt has a set of helical gears with the right ratio and a reasonable size, but I can't reach anybody at DeBolt.--I sent DeBolt 3 emails yesterday and they were all answered with an email from Paul at DeBolt with no message nor attachment. I called them this morning and left a message, but I can't do much now until I hear back from them. I don't even want to start the design of the engine till I get these gears figured out.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2018, 02:28:56 PM »
We're good!!! I just got a phone call from Paul Debolt at Debolt Machine and he is still in business and plans on staying in business. I ordered the helical gears from him, and I also ordered the "Martin" straight tooth bevel gears that will run the governor from the Canadian company I was dealing with. I won't do anymore design work until I have these gears in my hands. Chuck--I'm sorry about all the back and forth we've been doing. I won't be buying your gears after all, but I do appreciate that you made the offer to sell them to me.--Brian