Author Topic: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock  (Read 28373 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2018, 04:13:30 PM »
I bought the two bevel gears because I like the style of governor used on the Bob Herder side shaft engine currently being built by Craig DeShong. I want to marry that style of governor to the circular cam disc as used on the Silver Angel engine. This will let my cylinder head be much closer to a "conventional" style of cylinder head rather than having to assemble two piece valves inside the cylinder head as Craig has done. I haven't put a lot of thought into just how I will do that yet, but I think it will be possible.


Offline Jasonb

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2018, 05:28:28 PM »
Brian, you missed George's comment that the "lobe" of the can should be radial to the axis not straight across. If you imagine that grinding stone on the other forum doing the cutting while the cam is rotated horizontally it won't give the cut you have shown. You also look to have a very short duration.



Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2018, 07:12:10 PM »
Jason--that cam I modeled was just a "show and tell" so people would know what I was talking about. I agree totally with what you and George are saying.---Brian
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 07:33:22 PM by Brian Rupnow »

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 12:08:18 AM »
I am going to try and use a CM10 sparkplug on this engine because they are available at any autoparts store. Anything smaller is generally more expensive and can only be ordered from specialty suppliers. With a 1" cylinder, I'm sure I can make it fit, because I have three or four other 1" bore engines, and there is just enough room in the cylinder head for two 3/8" diameter valve heads and the 10 mm sparkplug.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2018, 01:23:24 PM »
Just caught up with  his post Brian, looks interesting.  I'll be following  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Craig

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2018, 04:42:06 PM »
After watching many more videos of full size "Domestic Stovepipe" engines, thigs are beginning to come clearer. The Domestic Stovepipe engines have a circular disc cam, similar to the cam on the Silver Angel. It has a really nice governor set-up which rides on one flywheel and connects to the exhaust valve lockout lever with a long pushrod. The beauty of this style of governor is that you don't have to shell out any cash for miter gears to run the governor shaft. On the Bob Herder hit and miss engine like Craig DeShong is building, the sideshaft, running at 1/2 of the crankshaft speed has a conventional shaped cam to run the exhaust valve. The problem with that is that the pivot point of the rocker arm is rotated 90 degrees from "normal", which leads to a really strange cylinder head into which the valves must be assembled in pieces.---and--It costs an extra hundred dollars for bevel bears to run the governor shaft.  However--It looks really neat, with the exposed governor setting up on the side of the engine.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2018, 06:40:00 PM »
So without worrying about scale too much, we want a model of the Bob Herder hit and miss governor pivoting an exhaust valve lockout mechanism similar to that used on the Domestic Stovepipe engine. This will do it. That green colored link will have to have a spherical rod end on the right hand end to let things move without binding.



Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2018, 08:29:23 PM »
Hello Brian

The 3D "pictures" gives a very informative illustration of the workings of the governor  :ThumbsUp:

I'm as usually following your builds and this is no exception  :cheers:  :popcorn:

Per

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2018, 09:44:09 PM »
Thanks Per--I hope this will be a good build.---Brian

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2018, 05:19:54 PM »
This is an interesting model. I have remodelled the sideshaft governor to the correct size, and just for the heck of it positioned it in the approximate place it would go on the "Odds and Ends" hit and miss engine. The "odds and ends" engine has a 1" bore and 1 3/8" stroke, same as the sideshaft engine I will be designing. The side-shaft engine flywheels will be 6" diameter instead of the 5" on the Odds and ends engine, but all in all its fairly close to the same size. The governor doesn't "overwhelm" the engine visually.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2018, 08:42:54 PM »
Since I don't have my gears yet, the only part of the engine available to work on is the governor, which I now have modelled to scale. Nice rotary table work doing the very top part. I'm having a devil of a time to get a good picture. With shop lights off, its too dark, but not dark enough for the flash to work. With both spotlights focused on the part it all washes out. This is the third try with my camera.

Offline crueby

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2018, 09:55:09 PM »
I have same problem with my lights, usually will aim the spots a little to the side of the part to dim things, or hold up a piece of white paper as a diffuser.




 :popcorn:

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2018, 03:04:19 PM »
This morning I made up a pair of filing buttons. If you have heard of filing buttons and weren't sure what they are---I have to file a nice radius on both ends of the governor top. If it was a big piece, I would free-hand it on my big stationary belt sander. Being such a small piece, I wouldn't be able to do that and have it come out looking right. So--filing buttons are made up from 01 steel, having the correct outer diameter and center hole and flame hardened. They are assembled as you see in the picture with a piece of the correct diameter shaft (.093" in this case.) Now when I file the radii on the aluminum governor cap, the hardened filing buttons will stop me from cutting too deep with my file and ending up with wonky looking radii on the aluminum part.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2018, 10:33:46 PM »
The brass governor parts are very small, way smaller than my comfort level. I chose to make my governor weights from pieces that are machined, then silver soldered together. This of course required me to make a "one time use" welding fixture to position the parts for silver soldering. After the soldering is done, I may have to cut it apart to free the components, that is why it is a "one time use' jig. The solid brass ring will be cut into four pieces, two of which are silver soldered  to the "pivot ears" and two which will become scrap.


Offline crueby

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Re: Design and build side shaft hit and miss engine from bar stock
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2018, 11:06:04 PM »
I always, well when I remember, use some Nicrobraze to keep parts from sticking to jigs when silver soldering, works well and cleans off in pickle.