Author Topic: Something a bit different  (Read 2460 times)

Offline Jasonb

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Something a bit different
« on: November 07, 2018, 12:05:55 PM »
I happened to be watching one of Gil Garceau's videos of the recent Coolsprings show and there was some footage of old electric motors. I have seen a few models of generators but  not motors and thought that one could make an interesting subject.

The smaller motors and fan motors could be built 1:1 or something like the larger motor at the start would suit 1/4 scale.

Anyone think something like this would make an interesting project or have links to other models that I have not seen?

Video should start where the motors are but if not it's at about 16.30

frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube1]

Offline ShopShoe

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 02:06:50 PM »
Jasonb,

I would think making any of the early electric  motors or other electric apparatus would be interesting.

One of the projects I have been wondering about would be a large Ammeter or Voltmeter. In conjuntion with a large open rotary switch this would be just the right touch of Frankenstein's Lab.

There is also this Article from Popular Electronics 1965: "Amazing Apparatus of the Gay Nineties"

http://rfcafe.com/references/popular-electronics/amazing-apparatus-popular-electronics-january-1965.htm

Go for It!

--ShopShoe

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 02:30:23 PM »
I think it's a great idea, on a similar theme I've been thinking for sometime whether it would be possible to build a Van de Graff generator  :)

This web page has a few attractive designs (especially under the simple armature section), the technical detail is sparse but it may offer some inspiration.

http://www.sparkmuseum.com/MOTORS.HTM

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 04:28:10 PM »
Looks like a nice project for your fabrication skills Jason.

Bill

Offline MJM460

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 09:15:27 PM »
Hi Jason,

I am another who thinks that both motors and generators would make great subjects for models, especially those open frame designs.

So many opportunities in conjunction with steam or ic engines.  Engine drives generator which powers motors.  Gives a variable load for an engine, to show governors and so on.

MJM460
The more I learn, the more I find that I still have to learn!

Offline pgp001

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 11:52:41 PM »
I have the makings of some generators which came with a part finished Cole Marchent & Morley Uniflow mill engine that I bought a few years ago.
They were built by Arnold Throp & Peter Southworth as a bit of an experiment at the time, they were planning on serialising it in Model Engineer but it never happened for various reasons.

The stators are about 6" diameter, I think they will look just the job next to a mill engine model.



There is only one like it, and I have all the patterns and drawings as well. More photos here.
http://lister-engine.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=162&page=1

Phil

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 09:31:30 AM »
Wow, this is a pretty nice model !
I looked at models of electric engines and generators a few years ago, but most of them were small solenoid engines made with recycled coils from bells (what I did too!) but alas no useful information for modeling early large industrial engine, I hope you will find a nice model like this one to express your skills, I'm ready to follow such a thread !!

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 10:01:26 AM »
I will probably go for something along the lines of the Edison fan or the little C&C motor but not in any rush, I did come across something else while googling these early morors and that may get made sooner ;)

I also posted this on ME forum and this link was posted in one of the replies, some nice work and a workshop that would even have Jo drooling over

http://www.earlyelectricmotors.com/

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 04:01:01 PM »
I would also be interested in seeing more of this.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 08:18:14 AM »
As I said while looking around the net for these early electric motors I came across an image of a toy electric engine from 1908 and then found a video which says it dates from 1908 and would have cost $1.25 from the likes of Sears or Roebuck. It is not the same principal but looks like it will make a fun project.





After a bit of sketching last night with Alibre it seems to work, well at least on the screen it does! By moving the reversing lever one of the two spring wire contacts will touch the conrod and complete the circuit which draws the rocker towards the magnets. Time to start winding some wiresmiley


Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2018, 01:09:00 PM »
Well that did not take long to make yet another runner :pinkelephant:

With all the parts made I did a quick lash up of the wiring and tried it on the 6V battery.

Needs a few tweaks and tarting up but at least the basic mechanics all work. It almost runs on a 1.5V AA cell so hopeful that once complete that will be all it needs as the 6V is a bit too fast though speed can be regulated by altering how long the spring is in contact with the conrod.






Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2018, 01:14:47 PM »
Looks to be a good little runner   :ThumbsUp:

Have you ever considered making a retro style dynamo (something like the Stuart) for one of your engines to drive ?

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2018, 01:18:31 PM »
That turned out very well Jason and runs quite smoothly. Nice little project!!

Bill

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2018, 01:49:34 PM »
That's a great runner Jason.

Anyone ever thought of putting an adjustable timer on the power supply, to create a hit and miss effect solenoid engine? Just an idea to add a variation to this type of engine. A delay wiper circuit as we used to do for cars (before it was stock equipment on most cars, as it is today) might work. the pulse could be timed to give power every 4th turn or something.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2018, 03:18:24 PM »
Thanks, When I get round to making the Bi-Polar motor that is really no different to a dynamo, just that you drive the spindle to get lecky out rather than putting lecky in to get rotation out.

Don't think switching would work to make it a hit and miss, they only miss when not under load as soon as you put them under load they fire each time or as often as needed to maintain the set speed so you would need variable switching to keep the revs constant depending on load.

Offline Don1966

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2018, 04:08:46 PM »
Nice work Jason I have a few links for you the first is a mono pole motor I made years back and my collection of electric engines. http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1750.15.html


Don

Offline gerritv

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2018, 04:34:53 PM »
Jason that looks like a fairly straightforward project? Electric is all the rage so very timely :-)

Gerrit
Don't confuse activity with progress

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 04:47:26 PM »
Thanks for that Don and the link, those kits came up om ME forum where I also posted this.

Gerrit, I suppose electric does have the advantage that you can easily run it whenever you like as it does not need a compressor, steam of fuel so makes a nice little desk toy. I am thinking about getting a micro USB socket to put in the wooden base so it can easily be run off a phone charger etc. Though if I can get it to run off a 1.5V cell may just fit a holder for that.

It made a nice change to do something a bit different, I'm waiting on the bearing castings for the IF Allman so this made a fun little fill in project.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 07:53:38 PM »
All finished now and as you will see at the end I have brought this 110 year old design upto date.


Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 08:15:43 PM »
Very nicely done Jason. Looks and runs great!!

Bill

Offline J.L.

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2018, 09:23:54 PM »
Jason, this little engine is absolutely delightful.
Skillfully brought back to life!
John

Offline Kim

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2018, 10:51:39 PM »
Jason, that is really quite cool!  I've never seen an electric engine quite like that one!  A very smooth runner for sure.
Kim

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2018, 10:58:00 PM »
Very nice Jason!

Dave

Offline Bearcar1

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 07:37:57 PM »
Runs like a scalded cat!! That is very cool. Thanks Jason, for sharing. I gotsta go now and search through my files and find a good one to build.
 :happyreader: :zap: :lolb: :DrinkPint: Well, maybe not in that exact order…..


Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2018, 08:53:53 PM »
A very nice looking motor and it performs nicely too  :praise2:

I'm guessing that you used modern enamelled copper wire and "just" covered the outside of the coils with cloth for appearance  :thinking:

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2018, 09:23:19 AM »
Yes modern wire and cotton coated in shelac to get the look of the original, though I think it needs a coat of darker shelac.

Offline toolznthings

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Re: Something a bit different
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2018, 07:17:54 PM »
While we are talking electric motors. Here's some pictures of motors I made back in 2012/2013 that tested my sanity.  :insane:  Did a couple from scratch and got the inspiration for a couple from reprint books on old time projects for young boys. Made use of ball bearings ,etc. in the builds. Wound all the coils by hand and used what wire I had since this was all a guessing game. The tallest motor ( pictures 3 & 7 ) runs super fast  and I rewound the armature four times before I got it right.  :facepalm: All the coils are wound by hand. All the motors run at various speeds and really have no power to speak of. I use a 18 volt drill motor battery for power.

A real learning experience !!
Thanks for the visit !
Brian