why do you quit

[zeeprogrammer]

So this is the question I was thinking about in the thread about "how good are you really?"...

My mom raised me not to be a quitter (or tried anyway).
Now mom didn't (seem to) make exceptions. If you quit something...you were a quitter and therefore less of a person.
But I've always struggled with the idea of continuing what appears to be a losing battle.
(I must admit, a large influence in my thinking was playing football in high school. I weighed all of 135 pounds and practiced everyday against a 250 pound hulk. I wanted to quit but mom wouldn't let me. I now have the left lobe of my liver atrophying because of an injury I took.)

The problem seems to be that point at which you think there's insufficient value in proceeding. Others may disagree.
The other problem is that point at which your friend/relative/etc. thinks there's insufficient value in proceeding. You may disagree.

For me, it's a real murky problem.

We've all had those times when we were ready to give up...gave it one more try...and had success.
We've also had those times when we were ready to give up...gave it one more try...and failed again.

I'm not sure this is a very good question. Very hard to answer. Very personal. But perhaps this elicits some interesting stories.

[b.lindsey]

My initial reaction Zee is that this shouldn't be about Mom or a friend or anyone other than ourselves. You are right, it's a very personal thing and we each have to define it in our own way. That point of diminishing returns can be tough to define, but I do think it can depend on the task or circumstances also.

Bill

[zeeprogrammer]

Quite so Bill. It's about ourselves.

I've started, and killed, many projects. Sometimes I realize it's more than I can chew (i.e. the time is too much), sometimes I realize I don't have the equipment and can't justify a one-time cost, quite often I simply lose interest (some other squirrel catches my eye).

Remember that PMR #7 I did? It's not finished. It won't be finished.

a) It isn't what I dream of.
b) I learned a lot that can be applied to another engine of more interest.
c) Sure, I believe I could have learned some more but the value versus time etc. wasn't there.
d) I crossed the line of discouragement (for that engine...not for machining...a big difference.)

I don't mean for this to be a 'beat myself up' or 'expose my inner self' kind of thread.

I'm looking for stories but it may be that the topic is not appropriate.

[Ian S C]

I have two projects that are "on hold", A Rhombic stieling Engine That in its current form is not too practical, it needs redesigning and rebuilding. the other one is a IC motor that really only needs the ignition wired up and I couyld at least see if it doesn't work, its cluttering up my work bench at the moment. that saying, I havn't quit yet.
Ian S C

[Kim]

Lots of thoughts on this one Carl.

1) I agree with Bill, it shouldn't be about Mom, or relative, or anyone else - it should be about how you feel about it.
1a) But having said that, some appropriate encouragement from your Mom, or others, from time to time, is invaluable to helping us all succeed.
2) If it's something your doing for fun, when it stops being fun, it's smart to stop.  Sometimes that's just temporarily (go take a break), but sometimes, the interest never comes back, so you don't go get back to it.
3) Some of us are wired so that we are completists.  Kind of like a perfectionist, but more of "have to get it done' even if its not perfect  (that's me).  I don't feel I 'did it' till I get it all done.  Not that I haven't quit things - I have.  I've never finished that 8" telescope mirror I started 20 years ago.  Just lost interest.  I never finished one of my big ship models that I made 32 cannons for (yet! - there's still time!).
3a) Some people don't have that completist need, and are more sane about stopping when something isn't fun anymore (see #2).

All in all, it's up to the individual.  What makes you happy.  Is it slogging through something even when it stops being rewarding?  Or is completing it enough reward to justify the slog?  There's a balance in there for all of us.  And its not for any of us to say where that should be for each other.  Just for yourself. And you know it when you see it.

Them's my thoughts.  Since you asked
Kim

[GordonL]

This is interesting to me because I am presently going though the process. I have been building an Atkinson Differential engine and now have more time trying to get it to run and building and rebuilding parts in the attempt than I have in the initial build. This engine is marginal at best. There is a problem with intake, exhaust and ignition port position as well as compression stroke. Others have built this engine and have it running, usually after a long hard slog but many others have just set it on the shelf or under the bench. Unless everything is in exact alignment it just does not run.

My present choice is to keep plugging ahead until I finally hit that magic point or do I try to modify the design to make it more dependable? In order to redesign it the best solution is to learn a 3D cad program which will allow me to animate the cycle and try changing various parameters to find a better solution. Learning a 3D cad program will require many hours of study to learn a program which will be of limited use after this project. I already use a 2D cad program which works well for 95% of my projects.

So do I just admit that I have already spent far too much time on this and admit defeat or do I keep plugging ahead? At 78 years old do I want to keep spend my limited remaining time on a frustrating problem or move on to more enjoyable projects?

Gordon

[Brian Rupnow]

Zee--You are certainly posting a lot of philosophical threads this month. I quit when either I reach a point where I can't get any better at something---or--when I get bored with something---or when I can no longer afford to do something. I have went through many hobbies/pastimes over the years, and I gave my absolute best to all of them. I too was raised by a father and mother who's mantra was "never quit anything". In the late 1950's to the early 1960's I played in a band, and was totally consumed by music. After getting married in the later 1960's, I found that my wife resented me being away at nights, playing for dances or performing in bars, and I gradually weaned myself off the music scene to preserve marital harmony. Then in the late 1960's I got very interested in drag racing and devoted a lot of time and money to designing, building and racing hot rods. That was a passion that stayed with me most of my life, until old age and arthritis made it too difficult to pursue. Somewhere in there I got caught up in the custom paintwork and body-work craze of the 1970's, and customized/painted many custom cars---some very radical stuff. Ten years ago I could see retirement coming, and so I bought a lathe and mill and decided to try machining--and you all know where that went. Somewhere in those intervening years, I bought a cottage on a lake and refurbished it, then sold it because I was too bored setting around a cottage doing nothing. I also built a beautiful house, (which ended up going to that same woman who resented me being out at night playing in bars.)  The only time you should quit doing something with no feelings of guilt, is when that "something" is hurting you. That can be financial hurt, emotional hurt, or anything that puts your life and happiness in jeopardy.

[ShopShoe]

There are those parents again. Both of mine nagged and cajoled and so on so I wouldn't be a quitter. But, and a very generous "but," they didn't force me or my siblings to undertake things that we absolutely had no talent and desire to do. In general, we did get raised to not be quitters, but we also got raised to evaluate our abilities along with what is desired to determine what to do and what not to do.

I have also had many interests and hobbies along the way, and in my mind I still have all of them. Unfortunately, I also am getting older and have to face more limitations in what I can do, and in what I have time to do. I currently have this thing about machining and making things from metal, but I don't do it very fast due to my own constraints and because I have to take time to do things for other people now. When I was in my twenties and thirties, I could just work in the garage most of the night, then get up at 5:30 or 6:00 to go to a job that required intense attention to details. Over the years it dawned on me that I was getting hurt more often: Nothing really serious, but working tired leads to lapses in concentration and mistakes on the project or worse, injuries.

So, Now I "hobby" when at full strength and when it is fun, then quit and rest, or take on an easier task or watch YouTube videos. this approach wroks for me, but it is slow: But I have to remember I'm the customer now and this customer can wait.

Back to what's in my mind: My projects are simpler, but the process is enjoyable. I have a long "to do" list for shop projects, but I'm only focused on what's next.

More rambling, I guess, but I guess that's philosophy.

ShopShoe

[Chipswitheverything]

Keeping to the model engineering aspect of Zee's latest conundrum for us, one of the things that I do rather like about the hobby is, that , much of the time, there is no need to get to the point of quitting something!
 
 If you have binned a project, or sold the bits, or more radically you no longer have retained a workshop facility, then I suppose that , well, you have given up! But usually it's an incomplete model or device that goes to the back of the bench, or a shelf somewhere, and gets looked at now and then, and thought about a bit.  You haven't given up!, indeed , you could just about get away with saying " I'm working on so and so, among other projects..."!

 This year I have just completed and got running  ( on air ) a little Stuart No 10 engine for which I bought the castings in 1969.  I started it then, as a very inexperienced but enthusiastic teenager, and then made a few bits every few years, with maybe the odd decade of mulling it over.  Still got to paint it, but not in a huge hurry!    The Stuart steam hammer that I wrote a few notes about a couple of years ago, was not much more of a rush job, castings given to me in '77, finished and painted in a mere 40 years of occasional flurries of interest. 
 I must say that in each case, when I homed in relatively recently on the model, pretty much intending to get it finished after such a long period of drips and drabs of component making, my enthusiasm for the build soon returned to what it had been years ago when the projects were started.   Dave

[AOG]

Quit, there is no quit. There is taking a break. There is changing paths. There is even changing expectations. But there is never ever quit.

“Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred”

Tony

[crueby]

I've had a fair number of projects over the years that got 'quit' upon, usually due to not liking the proportions or shapes that were made on a carving or model. Sometimes a project would sit there for a few weeks, interest in it gone, till I realized which parts just were not right, those sections torn off and redone. Others were just given up on due to not working (a small traction engine I started years ago was one, did not have the soldering skills needed yet, and could not get things to hold pressure at all). One, an Orrery, was abandoned in disgust halfway through when I realized I had made a major swarf-up in the math, and all the gears made to that point were wrong. Some of the failed projects got remade later on, some are still on the shelf as a reminder, others got scavanged for material or tossed in spring-cleaning.

[zeeprogrammer]

I had been thinking I hadn't posed the question very well, or there wasn't a lot of interest, and came in to 'quit' this thread. 

But the responses are wonderful, thoughtful, and enjoyable.

Some posts raise the question of what really is quitting. Good question!

I feel I never really finish anything. Part of the problem, I suspect, is whatever I'd set my expectations for.
Did I just want to get the engine to run? Or was I going for a show model, complete with display case?
Quite often I'm working on a problem, and once I 'see' the solution, I stop. I had my fun.

Thanks for contributing!

[chucketn]

Usually, I quit a project because it gets too far above my abilities. More often than that , above my budget. Then there's the endless discovery, that if you want to make X, then you need to make Y first and if you want to make Y, you need to learn Z, wash, repeat...
And then, other times, I quit a project 'cause... Ooh, shiny thing...

[dvbydt]

Another good one Zee!

Usually, for me, how good is good enough defines when I stop. Or an adverse opportunity/cost ratio  .

A word not often used is sedulous, or persistent, or dogged determination to finish a project.

Ian

[propforward]

I usually quit sometime between 6 and 9 pm, depending on how thirsty I am.

[Tin Falcon]

Zee one could argue that you are not quitting but simply distracted with life. Don Sandler  has a hard and fast rule one project at  a time.

when i first started this hobby I started minkin  . a model that is really too small for a beginner. then IIrc i stared the PMR 2 engine and busted a tap in the head then i finished Lucy in IIRC a week and then Webster alo in a week.  then i went back and finished minikin and then the pmr #2 and i have since finished other engines . these days mostly work house chores and a bit of addictive manufacturing.
I have too many projects started . I probably need to pick one and finish it then another....

[Maryak]

Quit................................


I liken it to banging you head on a brick wall................Its time to quit when it starts to hurt.

In our case its a hobby so quitting or continuing is a personal decision and you'll know it was the right thing if you feel better after the decision was made than you did before making it.


Regards Bob

[Tennessee Whiskey]

I know y’all just been dying to hear my spin on this  So ok Dr. Zee , here’s my take: Hell yeah I’m a quiter. I quit Babe Ruth baseball with a very respectable batting average, yet I realized the hardship it was placing on both of my working parents to get me to practice and games, I quit playing golf when a nice enjoyable 18 holes in 3.5 hours turned into a sitting on the fairway, drinking beer, waiting for the group in front to hit, which soon became 5-6 hours. I quit flying when 9-11 occured and as an all American, English speaking, redneck, I had to “declare myself” ( are you shiting me) I quit shooting skeet cause I had to drive over an hour to do it, I quit trying to play guitar because I found this hobby and I seem to have more mechanical rhythm that musical. I’ve given up on a woman or two before Lou, I gave up the hard drugs back in the day, so, at one time or other, I’ve pretty much quit everything. The one thing I won’t quit; is the desire to wake up every morning and have that “choice” . If you’re talking about machining; get over it and throw it in the bin, if you are talking about life; take a deep breath and savor it 

Whiskey

[zeeprogrammer]

If you’re talking about machining; get over it and throw it in the bin, if you are talking about life; take a deep breath and savor it 

Good one! 

This thread might have an altogether different feeling if the word 'quitting' was changed to 'stopping' (or 'pausing').
Many of the responses related to that.

[propforward]

I think people are too quick to compare abandoning something / quitting / stopping as failure, and similarly that failure is ALWAYS a bad thing.

It is not. Failure is merely a step in the learning process. At the best companies I have worked at, we always look for the means to "accelerate time to failure" on development projects. Why? Because the failure point is often how you figure out what you really need to do. It can be disheartening at times, but good leadership gets over that.

In the context of home model engineering, it means screwed up parts, or parts that aren't as good as you want them to be. I quit on one engine for 2 years, over a simple machining step, then came back to it and finished the engine. Other stuff got in the way too, but I took pause. That was over a relatively simple operation. Since then, I've taken a critical look at the parts I've made and decided I can do better, but can at least see the way forward.

There are other things I have attempted in life, where I was not enjoying the process, not getting the results I wanted, or it was taking too long and costing too much. Building my shoppe was one. I built maybe four or five of the frames needed for the walls. They were nice and square, and were used in the final shoppe. Great. Took me two weeks to make them. I hired a builder, he had those frames modified (I'd made them for 8' ceilings - should have been 9' - happily we made the effort to modify and go with 9'), and the remaining dozen or so frames built in two hours, the whole shop built, wired and sheetrocked in another 5 days.

So yeah, I quit on that one, and I don't care.

I don't believe anyone who says they "never quit". But I do accept that we shouldn't just give up on things without some sound reasoning.

Too long; didn't read.

Snooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooore.


 

No sleepy smiley in the smiley selection. FAIL!

[Tin Falcon]

Z this is apparently a struggle that is not relegated to the HSM hobby.
Many folks struggle with similar issues.
I ran across this article  on Hack a Day. thought i would post a link.

https://hackaday.com/2018/09/25/productivity-unfinished-projects-and-letting-go/

[Don1966]

Zee it not that we quiet we gain interest in other things. One thing I keep in mind is that this is a hobby and if I want to build sonething I will build it no rush no time limit because it is a hobby. My dad was a defeatist no positive thought you just can’t do it but we did just go show him we could but my dad only had a third grade education and a farmer. I do what I want when I want there is no rush if I start a project it really doesn’t matter how long it sits and waits for me to finish it my life doesn’t revolve around it or it being finished. When I do it will be completely finish but on my own time so no we are not quitters we just in life as it is and other things come into focus. If you stay in your shop day in and day other that’s fine some get additive to it and don’t stop while some of us just like to enjoy life along the way and that is where I am and enjoying it and will do projects as I choose to do do but I am far from being a quitter.

My two cents
Don 

[steamer]

Wot Don said  ^^^^^^^^^^

[10KPete]

Well said, Don! Very well said.

If only I could spend the uninterupted time in the shop I wanted. But there are other things in life I choose to participate in doing. So, no quitting, just stop and go.

Pete