Author Topic: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe  (Read 2057 times)

Offline Smudger

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9
Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« on: September 17, 2018, 10:42:01 AM »
Hello All
Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to build a stationary model engine from a casting kit with hand tools alone. I do not have a milling machine or a metal turning lathe.
Thanks for reading
Two burning. Two turning. A steady Watch

Offline b.lindsey

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Dallas, NC, USA
    • Workbench-Miniatures
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 03:32:36 PM »
Smudger, I would say that nothing is impossible but doing this without a lathe or mill or both would certainly be an uphill battle. In order for such an engine to work the level of precision required virtually dictates that machine tools be used...especially with castings. I suspect you would have far more luck using bar stock rather than castings where sizes are already closer to what is needed for things like the crankshaft etc.  Another option would be to think about building a "tin can" stirling type engine where hand tools would be sufficient. If you are serious about model machining as a hobby, then at some point a lathe and mill will be needed and the membership here can certainly make suggestions for that depending on your budget level. Hope this doesn't deter you but trying to build a working model from castings would simply be a very frustrating exercise which I fear would turn you off to this wonderful hobby.

Bill

Offline Tin Falcon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Down Jersey USA
Pre machined casting kits.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 11:17:30 PM »
@ Smudger

Quote
Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to build a stationary model engine from a casting kit with hand tools alone

Like bill mentioned nothing is impossible but i dot think anyone here would try it without at least  lathe and some sort of milling attachment or a shaper. If you read the old model making books lathes were crude in the late 1800s and a lot was done with chisel and file .

That being said there are four kits from castings I know of that come pre machined that can easily be assembled with hand tools.
and a variety of price points

https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engine-2am/  $ 98
https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engine-3/   $149
https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engine-8/ $ 179
https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/steam/steam-engine-7/  $289


One of these should fit the bill fit the bill



Stuart in the UK also has a full line of pre machined kits.
They seem a bit  pricey but the hours to build one  likely not too terrible.

https://www.stuartmodels.com/products/machined-kits

Another dozen choices price from around  200 GBP to 1200 gbp.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 01:27:14 AM by Tin Falcon »

Offline b.lindsey

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Dallas, NC, USA
    • Workbench-Miniatures
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 01:22:09 AM »
Tin, not sure why the topic got locked. I may have done it myself unintentionally. Anyway, I have unlocked it and merged your reply back into the original thread. Sorry for the confusion.

Bill

Offline Tin Falcon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Down Jersey USA
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 01:35:11 AM »
 @ Bill: No problem  just tying to get answers to this apparently young and anxious hobbyist.

And @ smudger IMHO a pre machined kit is a great way to get started in this hobby. You can buy a kit or two and assemble with hand tools without the expense and learning curve of owning an operating hand tools. .

Offline GailinNM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Albuquerque, NM, USA
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 01:38:56 AM »
Another source of pre-machined  kits is:
www.grahamind.com

Be sure to go to the downloads section for the brochures and in some  cases the  assembly manuals.

Full disclosure: I designed several of these kits in the 1980's and produced them until 2000 when I turned the business over to my son, Robert, who  still operates  it today.

Gail in NM
I would like to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am.

Offline Tin Falcon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Down Jersey USA
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 01:46:01 AM »
Gail : i considered adding a link to the kits your son offers but the OP did specify casting kits for whatever reason .  So he now has a few more choices to ponder.

Offline Vixen

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3075
  • Hampshire UK
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 02:00:33 AM »
Hi Smudger.

Thank you Bill for unlocking this thread

A long time ago there was a series of articles in Model engineer Magazine titled "Handmaiden by Tubal Cain". Tubal Cain was a highly accomplished model engineer of the time. As the name implies Handmaiden was a hand made (no machine tools) horizontal engine, a Stuart 10H. The series ran on alternative issues from June 1982 vol 148 and into vol 149. He built the engine entirely by hand, to prove it could be done without machine tools.

Ask the forum members if they have a copy of the ME series or you could contact ME directly on www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/

From your sign off, do I detect you spend a lot of time at sea?

Good luck

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9467
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2018, 07:01:48 AM »
I did reply on ME forum as this one had been locked and mentioned Handmaiden which was a slightly modified 10H to make it a little easier to make by hand



It is important to remember the likes of Tubal Cain served an engineering apprenticship and would have spent many months stood infront of a vice learning how to file and fit parts and would not have been let near a machine tool for at least a year or two. This plus a hacksaw was all that he used to make the engine plush some bought in nuts, bolts and the drain cocks.


Offline Vixen

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3075
  • Hampshire UK
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 09:35:38 AM »
Jason,
Sorry, I did not see your reply to this on another forum. I was not trying to steal your thunder

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline Smudger

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 10:00:46 AM »
Thanks everyone for the information plenty to think about and a lot more research needed. Most grateful for your help
Two burning. Two turning. A steady Watch

Offline Tin Falcon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Down Jersey USA
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 11:25:40 AM »
That kit is available from Stuart  for 89 gbp  ex VAT

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9467
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 11:42:53 AM »
Mike, no problem. As I said I would have posted here as that is where I saw the question first except the thread had been locked. Added the couple of photos to this thread too as I thought others may be interested to see what can be done with very little in the right hands, makes you wonder why some people feel the need for several Lathes and mills :LittleDevil:

Unfortunately I only have Vol 148 and not 149 which has the majority of the build in it.

Offline Vixen

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3075
  • Hampshire UK
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 11:58:29 AM »
Smudger, Jason

I find I have Model Engineer vol 148 and vol 149 hidden away in the spare bedroom.  These contain all the Handmaiden articles and more. That's 24 magazines in total, so quite heavy. I can wrap them up and post them to Smudger (first in line) if he /or anyone else covers the shipping costs. I also have the complete Model Engineer volumes 148 through to volume 169 available, yours for the shipping costs.

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline AOG

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 01:00:24 PM »
Another source of pre-machined  kits is:
www.grahamind.com

Be sure to go to the downloads section for the brochures and in some  cases the  assembly manuals.

Full disclosure: I designed several of these kits in the 1980's and produced them until 2000 when I turned the business over to my son, Robert, who  still operates  it today.

Gail in NM

I can’t recommend these kits highly enough. I built them before I had any machines and I had a lot of fun. Best of all they are pretty small and you can take them with you. I made several of them in hotel rooms while I was traveling for work. As an aside, thank you Gail for designing these kits. They were my gateway drug into this hobby. If it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t be here.

Tony

Offline Tin Falcon

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Down Jersey USA
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2018, 10:37:48 PM »
I can also attest to the quality of the PMR kits. they do need a little deburing and an arbor press or vise comes in handy for the couple of pressed parts. I have built two of the model 3s . excellent for the money and while a bit larger than the Graham models still portable enough.

Offline maury

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
    • Lone Star Engine Works
Re: Cleaning castings without a milling machine/lathe
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2018, 10:57:39 PM »
Smudger, I hope to encourage you to get into the hobby. It's very rewarding. I also have to relay some of my experience. When I first started out, a friend of mine showed me an ad for a new kit. The Little Kathy. The cutest little steam engine, and it was only $60 or so. This was a while back, at any rate, I decided to get one, he did too. I had no machine tools, and knew I would at least need a lathe. I bought a new Enco 9", had to save a bit, but I used that lathe for a lot of engines subsequently. If you don't have a lathe, get one, you can do a lot with a lathe. If you have questions, ask the board, everyone here is eager to help.

The problem with the lathe is it won't do everything needed to be done building an engine. I thought I could use my drill press and a xy table to substitute, cost you know. Boy was I wrong! I did complete the kit with my lathe and my kludged up drill press, but it wasn't all that pretty. It did run though.

The moral is, save up until you can get proper machinery. There is a lot of used stuff out there, and even if it's worn some, you can still do well making hobby engines.

I wish you luck, and hope you can build some really nice projects, patience is important.

maury
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."... Margaret Thatcher

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal