Author Topic: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).  (Read 2701 times)

Offline Gas_mantle

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A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« on: September 13, 2018, 11:02:05 PM »
Yesterday along with forum member Gary Ayres I paid a visit to the Museum of Science and Industry, unfortunately on the day their boiler had run out of meths was undergoing repair so the steamers couldn't be seen running, despite this it was a very enjoyable day and armed with a new roll of film in my Box Brownie camera I thought it I'd share what we saw.

Manchester was a major player in the industrial revolution and particularly in the cotton industry so the museum does have this as it's focus but there are areas devoted to aviation, computing etc.

As both Gary and myself are mainly interested in engines it made sense to head for the 'Power Hall' first, so let the tour begin :-

Firstly on the list was this Robinson hot air engine, it's quite a hefty looking beast for its modest 0.25 hp



Next was a replica of an Otto engine built in 1982





A Crossley gas engine,.





A National gas engine built 1900





A Bisschop gas engine of 1882





In amongst the gas engines were a few machine tools partly rigged up to a half built overhead line shaft. It looks like the intention is to have to tools running in the near future.







I can't remember what this chunky little fella was but I wouldn't want that flywheel dropped on my foot.



A Crossley oil engine.





Can't quite remember what this one is and forgot to photograph the info board  :(



 

Centre stage in the engine hall is this monster tandem Corliss engine rated at 500hp.















Next we move onto this rather nice V twin steamer, I think (but not sure) that this is the engine recently serialised in Model Engineer magazine.





Another National engine.





This rather mundane looking exhibit  had what I thought could be an interesting history. There wasn't any staff available to ask but reading the notice boards it appears it was one of a number of water pumps dotted around Manchester City centre. The idea was they supplied water at high pressure to a network of 35 miles of pipes under the streets, small businesses could be connected to this water supply and use its pressure to power their own machines. Next to the pump was a huge bank of cast iron weights that could be raised by water pressure during periods of low demand then later released to supplement the pumps during high demand.

I intend to try an find out a it more about this system I'm curious to know well it worked and how long it ran etc. I can see that it's a kind of forerunner to the National Grid before electricity came along but it does seem like a problematic system to me  :headscratch:







Moving on to more modern things are a couple of 20th century alternators





This workshop engine is nothing unusual but I thought rather attractive nontheless



A fairly routine 'A; frame engine.



A couple of photos a Grasshopper haulage engine - This engine was the inspiration for Stew Harts Potty Grasshopper.





The last engine was this Crossley gas engine, I'll rotate the video once I have figured out how to do it but for now you will have to watch it in bed. Developing a modest 1.5 hp it originally ran on coal gas but the museum curator said that when they first acquired it and tried to run it on domestic gas it proved to be unsuccesful. They now buy a 'special mix'  gas from a local bottle gas supplier who has now perfected the recipe.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZi9-M_mXnw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZi9-M_mXnw</a>

Since Manchester owes a lot of its history to the cotton industry it made sense to have a look in the textile area of the museum. I'm no expert textile machinery so I can't really comment much on the following photographs but hopefully they will give an insight into what the industry used.

This general view of the textile floor shows a lot of the machinery needed to turn raw cotton in to useable cloth, broadly speaking the machines are arranged so that the raw cotton would start at the top left in the photo then work through various carding machines along the left side toward the camera, the machine nearest the camera then starts to spin the yarn, working up the rightside away from the camera the next machine twist the yarn more tightly to the point it has the strength for weaving. Finally the last machine just about visible in the top right corner weaves the yarn into cloth.



A few other views show how things were built to last.









The last few images show part of a rather impressive looking machine that performs the secondary spinning prior to weaving. The machine shown is 1/4 of the width of the full installation that would have been used and operated by 3 adults and one child. Put simply the small bobbins at the front spin while the frame at the front moves forward on rails, doing this pulls the thread off the rear bobbins then on the return travel the frame winds the newly spun yarn onto the front bobbins.

The machine was largely automatic so the workers had to operate at the pace of the machine (and believe me it is fast). Essentially the adult workers were there to keep the machine fed with thread, change bobbins, deal with snapped threads etc.

Each machine had 1 child worker usually not older than about 7yrs and often as young as 5yrs who were required to crawl under the machine from the back while the frame was moving forwards then pick up loose debris / mess etc from the floor before the frame started it's return.

Seeing the machine demonstrated, I reckon a child would have about 10 secs to climb under, pick up the mess etc before the frame came back. As for the noise I found it intolerable after 30 secs, how on earth people put up with it during 12 or 14 hour shifts is beyond me







Well, that concludes my photographic walk through and a bit of history.

I really enjoyed the day, met a fellow forum member, learnt a bit of history then washed it all down with a couple of pints of the dark stuff  :)

Peter
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 01:06:10 AM by Gas_mantle »

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 11:37:42 PM »
Great photos! Thanks.

T and I were in Manchester 3, maybe 4, years ago. Had a great time.
Some of the pics look familiar but I remember a section (or different building) with a huge huge locomotive. I could be getting mixed up...we saw a lot of things on that trip.
I do remember we went to a textile mill (converted to a museum) that was fascinating. It included seeing the quarters where owners and workers lived.
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Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 12:22:14 AM »
A fine day well captured, Peter!

Amazingly well photographed, remembered and documented by yourself while I gazed around in bemused awe  :-)

I took a couple of detail shots, however, just to capture some aspects of the beauty of the engines close up. Will double check and post them in this thread if they are any good.

A couple of interesting stats learned on the day:

- at the height of the industrial revolution Manchester produced 70% of the world's cotton cloth.

- in 1912, Manchester produced 4,500,000 miles of cotton cloth.

That is:

FOUR.

POINT.

FIVE.

MILLION.

MILES.

!!!


Only one small difference of recollection: I *think* I recall that the head of water which was stocked up for the amazing hydraulic power network (which was a completely new one on me) was raised by a steam engine. Sort of makes sense to me - use a big  kickass steam pump to charge up the central 'battery' then let gravity acting on a heavily weighted ram distribute the energy across a wide geographical area...

However, I will google this to verify. But not this night...

 :ThumbsUp:

Offline Baner

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 12:46:13 AM »
Thanks for the tour! Excellent photos. Very interesting.

 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Dave.

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 02:24:35 AM »
Thanks for the great pictures Peter. Some of the textile machinery sure looks familiar from my days in the cotton mill. Nice memories.

Bill

Offline RonGinger

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 03:32:53 AM »
I visited the museum once. But it was very brief, we had barely entered when some kind of alarm went off and they made us all leave. It turned out to be a gas alarm and they closed the building for the est of the day. We were in London for an ME show and had taken one day to ride the train to Manchester to see the museum. I was a bit annoyed.

Offline Jo

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 07:02:10 AM »
I can't remember what this chunky little fella was but I wouldn't want that flywheel dropped on my foot.



It is a Robinson X Type Gas Engine, better known as a Chippy Engine  ;)

Jo
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Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 07:29:22 AM »

 I *think* I recall that the head of water which was stocked up for the amazing hydraulic power network (which was a completely new one on me) was raised by a steam engine.

Or perhaps more likely that the heavily weighted vertical ram was raised by a steam engine.

The info was all there at the museum; I just can't remember it exactly.

Still have to check it out online...

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 12:27:39 PM »
Hello Peter.

Many thanks for your pictorial tour of a museum that's fairly close but I have never visited.

I've attached a link for the membership to better understand how large towns and cities made, stored and used hydraulic energy before the advent of electricity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_power_network

If you get the chance I'd suggest a visit to the Anson Engine museum near Stockport Manchester. They have a huge collection of " Manchester made " engines most of which can be seen running. There's also a few steam engines too.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 12:40:15 PM »
Thanks everyone  :)

Graham, the info on the hydraulic network looks interesting and I'll read through it properly this evening. Funnily enough the Anson museum did get a brief mention by the man demonstrating the Crossley gas engine running (the one in the video). He said that the Anson museum also had a similar gas engine - I thought he said theirs was the oldest working example but can't be certain.

Offline Mcgyver

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 01:15:22 PM »
great photos, thanks for posting them!

Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 01:20:49 PM »
Hi Peter.

Yes indeed, the Anson has several of the Otto Crossley atmospheric gas engines on display but as to the oldest, I couldn't be certain.

They do have one of the largest engines of this class as a runner and have managed to reduce costs by using Propane for the main cylinder charge and Hydrogen for the " carrier flame " ignition system.

Going back to hydraulic power, the famous Tower bridge in London was raised using this system and was working well into the 20'th century.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »
I'll add the Anson engine museum to my 'must visit' list  :)  Manchester is fairly central to a few industrial museums and I'd like to have a look at most of them. Trencherfield mill at Wigan is next on the list.

As for the Crossley gas engine I found it interesting to watch when running and wondered if anyone has built a working model? I haven't yet seen one but surely someone must have built one?  Maybe that's one for Jason, to come up with a barstock version  ;)


Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 02:10:44 PM »
Well....

There are several working models of the Otto Langen original engine in various scales.

These engines were built " under license " by Crossley brothers of Manchester to Otto's patents.

I have, in the past considered a scale model but knowing their " idiosyncrasies " on the actual running part I decided not to embark. The thing is that many builders of scale gas engines actually fail to see a runner at the end of the project. This creates disappointment and a reluctance to try another one. Our readily available modern fuel gases like Propane are not ideally suited because the air to fuel ratio is quite critical. The old " Town Gas " was far more forgiving.

Cheers Graham.


Offline ShopShoe

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 02:15:32 PM »
FYI

There is also information on "Water Engines" and hydraulic power here:

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/waterengine/waterengine.htm

ShopShoe

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 02:48:29 PM »
Thanks guys  :)

Until visiting the museum I hadn't realised hydraulic power was used on fairly large scale operations, looking at it now with the benefit of an electric National Grid a water version sounds like a non starter but clearly it was reasonably successful. It would appear the Manchester network was still expanding as late as 1948 when there were 35 miles of under street pipes and it still operated in a reduced form as late as 1972 !

You really have to give the Victorians credit for coming up with a system that enabled them to wind up the Town Hall clock and power the Opera House curtains using under street water at 1100psi  :headscratch:

Graham, I hadn't really thought much about the fuel source needed for a model Otto Crossley engine but that along with the engineering challenges in building one explains why you don't see many  ;)


Offline Alyn Foundry

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 04:10:52 PM »
Well Peter.

If you thought that was interesting, how about another forgotten energy source, also used before electricity became the norm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trompe

Perhaps more up " your alley " as the compressed air was used to drive converted steam engines. This could almost be considered " free " energy as Mother Nature provides.

Cheers Graham.

Offline crueby

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 05:00:04 PM »
Well Peter.

If you thought that was interesting, how about another forgotten energy source, also used before electricity became the norm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trompe

Perhaps more up " your alley " as the compressed air was used to drive converted steam engines. This could almost be considered " free " energy as Mother Nature provides.

Cheers Graham.
Thats a slick system, simaler effect to water feed into a boiler from the steam flow itself. Never seen this before, intersting!

Offline kvom

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2018, 05:56:17 PM »
At the Henry Ford museum near Detroit I saw a small engine that was powered by home water pressure;  I believe it powered a washing machine although I may be mistaken about that.

I'm estimating that the grasshopper haulage engine's cylinder is about 3' high with a 6' diameter flywheel.  I'm trying to decide what scale my Muncaster should be in order for any brickwork to look correct.  Dollhouse brick is 1:12, so if I use that my engine's putative prototype would have an 11' flywheel.  My alternative, that I'll experiment with, is to make brickwork myself via engraving on aluminum with orange powdercoat; that can me made to any scale.

Is there any historical info on how large this type of engine could be?

Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2018, 11:36:56 PM »







Offline crueby

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2018, 11:40:31 PM »
Wonderful photos Gary! Those would be worthy of a tech calendar!

Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2018, 11:48:11 PM »
Thank you Chris   :)

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2018, 11:50:55 PM »
The close-ups are great! One doesn't get very many of those. I can see them hanging on a wall.
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Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: A visit to the Museum of Science and Industry (Manchester).
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 11:51:51 PM »
Thanks Carl   :ThumbsUp:


 

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