how good are you really?

[zeeprogrammer]

Well the '3rd Time's Charm and Other Measurements' was a fun topic and I learned a lot...not just about machining but about our friends on this forum.
It's a great forum. Hard to find such friendliness and help.

What this is about...

I've done some home improvements. Laying floors, installing a kitchen, etc. I see all the boo-boos, all the fix-ups, etc. And when people come to visit...they don't see it.
They think it's a wonderful job. Or they're lying, but I do have a couple of friends/relatives that will tell me like they see it.

I know it's a lot about 'being too close' to the work.

I feel I've improved a lot on my latest project...and I get strokes, slaps on the back, good job...but I'm not as happy with my work as they seem to give me credit for.

I know...we're our own worst critics.

So I'm curious as to others' feelings. Do you ever get to the point that you feel you've done an excellent job? A superb work? Or do you feel it sufficient that you've improved?
It implies you can never reach perfection. You can only feel and experience improvement.
Maybe it's that occasional feeling of 'Yeah! I did it!".

I suspect the answer is obvious. You feel and experience improvement...and that knowing you can better, is what drives you on. I mean...sure...if you reach perfection, you're kind of done.

It sorts of relates to recognition. Something I'm very uncomfortable with. I was often recognized at work but never felt I deserved it. I can always do better.

Just some random thoughts. Probably a side-effect of once again celebrating my unbirthday. 

[Dave Otto]

I get a lot of satisfaction from my work, both at home and also the day job. I'm never completely happy (sometimes pretty pleased) with my work and feel there is always room for improvement. There is a lot of stuff I do that just flat doesn't matter, if it is to print or fills the current need, it is good enough. Most of the hobby projects are a different story though.

I feel that you are correct about being so close to the work that you agonize about every little imperfection. Most of them other people will never notice and after some amount of time you will probably forget about most of them too; except maybe the really bad ones. 

If we all spent our time here finding and pointing out all the faults with each others projects this wouldn't be a very fun place to hang out.

Just some of my thoughts.
Dave

[crueby]

I think you hit that nail on the head - first try even! Being the one who did the work, knows what the distances/sizes/etc were supposed to be, we see the flaws, mistakes, close-enoughs, all that. I does help motivate to try (key word, try) to do it better the next time. And whenever we think we are doing REALLY well, we see some museum exhibit, the Candy Hill book, something like that, and say "Oh....." and head back to the shop to try and do better.

And yes, the encouragement (and the banter) here really helps!

[90LX_Notch]

Almost every one of my engines have some mistake or boo boo in them.  I leave them there as a lesson that is reinforced every time I see them.  All I can do is learn from them and try not to repeat them.

-Bob

[90LX_Notch]

And whenever we think we are doing REALLY well, we see some museum exhibit, the Candy Hill book, something like that, and say "Oh....." and head back to the shop to try and do better.

Or.... George humbles all of us with his work.

-Bob

[toolznthings]

I try to follow the advice I've given to my son and daughter. Try to do your best. There will always be someone who does better or worse so learn from both. I happiest when I learn something new or accomplished a task that I have never done before. I'm always amazed at the talents of others and appreciate their skills, many examples here on MEM.   

[zeeprogrammer]

Some excellent observations....

If we all spent our time here finding and pointing out all the faults with each others projects this wouldn't be a very fun place to hang out.

and head back to the shop to try and do better.
And yes, the encouragement (and the banter) here really helps!

Almost every one of my engines have some mistake or boo boo in them.  I leave them there as a lesson that is reinforced every time I see them.  All I can do is learn from them and try not to repeat them.

I try to follow the advice I've given to my son and daughter. Try to do your best. There will always be someone who does better or worse so learn from both. I happiest when I learn something new or accomplished a task that I have never done before. I'm always amazed at the talents of others and appreciate their skills, many examples here on MEM.   

Proof we're not alone.

'toolznthings' particularly struck with me because I have a couple of daughters and have tried to teach them that balance. Do your best, learn, and don't drag yourself down because of the mistakes you make. We all make mistakes and mistakes are opportunities. (I should listen to myself more often.)

[b.lindsey]

Cletus must be cooking or he would have jumped in here with the southern take on things. All good comments but Toby Keith sings it best...."I ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.".  Thinking he might have had something else in mind though 

Bill

[zeeprogrammer]

That's a great song.
Only...the part that's "I'm as good once as I ever was" is sometimes questionable. But I'll continue to believe it.

[steam guy willy]

Just my pennyworth.......Perfection has no sons     

Willy

[Art K]

Well, what to say. Maybe no one's perfect. If I was to pull apart my engines I could show you the faults in them. Like moving the part before raising the cutting tool to clear on the Upshur. Or zeroing the Z axis on the face of the combustion chamber rather than the face of the head which is at a 15 degree angle for the valve cages. The intake and exhaust don't quite line up on VAL. I talked with the guy at the Tormach for last years tech days to figure that out. Do I know what I did wrong? yes. will I remember it next time? yes. Is it worth re-making the head to fix it? no.

They think it's a wonderful job. Or they're lying, but I do have a couple of friends/relatives that will tell me like they see it.

I do have to share a story in relation to this. A number of years ago I was in between jobs and taking a seminar that included the Meyer/Briggs personality test. It also included two days of group stuff discussing things. On the second day one of the women must have felt comfortable with us as a group. She had to share with us that she had left home that morning and got there and realized she wasn't wearing a pair of shoes. she had on that was blue the other black. Mind you it was navy blue. If she hadn't said anything NO ONE would have noticed, but since she did we all looked and sure enough not a pair. She was the only one who noticed. I suspect the things you see in your house and engine building are much the same, you are in it, and it's obvious to you, and unless you point it out, no one else will see the faults that are glaring to you. hope this is helpful.
I don't believe it I just wrote a novel
Art

[Baner]

In a previous life I used to do a lot of art: painting and drawing and so on. Art is a little more 'organic'  I suppose, than machining, and a bit harder to quantify as perfect. So whilst never being 'perfect', on two occasions I'd managed to achieve in a picture what I'd hoped to achieve, my own sense of perfect. Trouble was, I couldn't repeat it. It was stifling. Every subsequent picture wasn't as good as the previous one. It sucked all the enjoyment out of it. It was very hard to move beyond that. I think that is very common in the creative fields. It's half the reason I left art behind.

In machining, however, they make tools to measure perfection And they always tell me I'm not perfect, and I can't be perfect - which is exactly how I want to be. If the numbers are within tolerance I'm happy, but there is always that little bit more measurable precision to achieve that keeps me both anxious and excited every time I engage the power feed on a finish cut. And that is something that will never change. There is nothing subjective about a micrometer. I'll never be able to contrive a sense of perfect that isn't engraved on that barrel.

This is notwithstanding all the other facets of this hobby or engineering in general - or comparing my own work to some of the outstanding work presented in this forum.

There is no shortage of things I'm not very good at.

And that's perfect with me.

Dave.

[Johnmcc69]

We all started someplace. The bottom. I think it depends on the individual & their willingness to learn & then learn more. Don't let failure bring you down.
 My last "project" was helping an older gentleman restore an old (1957) tractor, rebuilt engine, re-wire, & fresh paint. This was his first real experience in getting this deep into an engine. I've rebuilt engines before, motorcycle, snowmobile, auto, & tractor. Kind of "winged" it...while working on his tractor, he asked a lot of questions that I couldn't answer "just always did it that way.." . Got home, hit the books, internet forums, & learned a lot myself. Came back the next day & explained to him what I learned & answered his qustions. We both learned. I used to hate wiring, didn't understand it, did some reading up on the basics, & now it's not that big of a fear to me. I still struggle, but I'm getting better. My painting skills could use some improvement...

 Self doubt is a killer, second guessing, ourselves being our own biggest critic..
I sweat the "small things"...I rebuilt a carb for a JOHN Deere model 40 today that was running poorly & tomorrow I install it, I'm already asking myself "what if that doesn't work". Especially when mr. Customer asks me..

 It IS about the journey, don't give up. If it doesn't work, find out why.

 Knowledge is power.

 John

[Jo]

The day I stop learning is the day they put me in the box and nail the lid on 

Jo

[Vixen]

It IS about the journey, don't give up. If it doesn't work, find out why.

That sums it up completely

Mike

[Stuart]

Jo is that with metric fasteners of imperious ones , but not for a long time I hope
Mike agree completely

When I get a day when thing don’t go so well I shut up the shop , go indoors have a cup of coffee ( don’t like tea and I cannot drink wine etc ) think about why it did not go to plan machine it in my mind until I have a better plan ( maybe a cunning plan like baldrick )

Then next day go and get it done

At 71 I am still learning ,do not be afraid to approach the task from a different angle ,hold the part a different way

So after 50 or so at model engineering I do make mistakes,dumb decisions or WHY but that’s life

It’s a good day when I wake up and get out of bed

Above all for us it’s a hobby and enjoy it , it’s not like we have to earn our corn doing it

Last comment be safe in your workshops and enjoy that you can

Stuart

[Vixen]

Each day we spend in our workshops, we learn a little and we grow in experience. We can then use our vast accumulation of knowledge and experience to make the same inevitable mistakes again....but with greater confidence.

As Stuart points out, the only achievement that really matters, is to wake up each morning.

Mike

[Stuart]

I like your comment  made me smile , but it’s so true
Instead of taking a hour to mess up I can now do it in five mins

[Vixen]

Zee asked the question "how good are you really?"

Perhaps this little poem will help remind us.

The Indispensable Man

Sometime when you're feeling important;
Sometime when your ego 's in bloom;
Sometime when you take it for granted,
You're the best qualified in the room:
Sometime when you feel that your going,
Would leave an unfillable hole,
Just follow these simple instructions,
And see how they humble your soul. 

Take a bucket and fill it with water,
Put your hand in it up to the wrist,
Pull it out and the hole that's remaining,
Is a measure of how much you'll be missed.
You can splash all you wish when you enter,
You may stir up the water galore,
But stop, and you'll find that in no time,
It looks quite the same as before. 

The moral of this quaint example,
Is to do just the best that you can,
Be proud of yourself but remember,
There's no indispensable man.

And that goes for all of us, both during our careers and also our remaining time on this tiny planet.

Mike

[10KPete]

I think I'll go back to bed now... nothing to top that verse.... good one.

Pete

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Great discussion: sure makes a man think. Here, I’ll give y’all a little music that fits the thread

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Dc5NtDyII" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Dc5NtDyII</a>

Whiskey

[Flyboy Jim]

Another interesting thread Zee.

One thing that jumped out to me is the concept of "perfect". I think that perfect is not always what we think of as "perfect".

Example: Let's say you have a ramshackle garden shed in the back yard that was poorly built, but functional. Lets say the siding on one part of one wall needs replacing. The siding on this building was poorly done (crooked, split, nails showing, etc). Okay........you replace part of the siding and do it pretty much perfectly (as we usually define perfect). Your perfect siding job is going to stand out like a sore thumb......where as "perfect", in this case, would of actually been doing the same sloppy job as was done on the rest of the building. 

In the case of machining............maybe "perfect" IS achievable if "perfect" is defined as being within tolerance.

Jim

[bent]

I had a boss once who said he hated the phrase "good enough".  He wanted us to strive to be better, which is not a bad thing.  Except when you are wasting time pursuing an ideal in one area (polishing that knob for the perfectly shiny finish) and ignoring the leaky fittings or worn bearings elsewhere.

Engineers deal in "good enough", we set tolerances and define the minimum and maximum acceptable conditions.  Form follows function, and what it looks like should be secondary to whether it is fit for purpose.  And I am not overstepping, I think, in saying that everybody on this forum is an engineer in the real sense - somebody who designs and builds engines.

But yeah, I'm my worst critic some times.

[zeeprogrammer]

Very enjoyable thread and wonderful contributions. Love the stories.

It's lots of fun and I hope it adds to our community. We're not just engine builders.

[steam guy willy]

The problem with accurate work is ...that once you make the first bit dead accurate ,all the other parts have to be dead accurate as well.....If you have a dead accurate 1" shaft then make a 1" hole the shaft won't go in the hole ?? !! so which part was the accurate 1" bit ??..........i think we should be told !! And as my mum told me    a lick of paint covers a multitude of sins !!
Willy

[crueby]

The problem with accurate work is ...that once you make the first bit dead accurate ,all the other parts have to be dead accurate as well.....If you have a dead accurate 1" shaft then make a 1" hole the shaft won't go in the hole ?? !! so which part was the accurate 1" bit ??..........i think we should be told !! And as my mum told me    a lick of paint covers a multitude of sins !!
Willy

Licking paint - that explains a lot!   
Thats why we get the first part made, to as close as we can get it, then spend lots more time getting the mating part to match it and run smooth. At least one of them is easy that way!

[Admiral_dk]

I make some very high quality constructions for my employer and no I can't show them here (secrets), but even then there are still room for improvements between production batches. As for all else, both at work, home and for friends, the biggest problem is the interval between solving the same kind of problems .... or to use a phrase from the English :   

Use it or loose it

For the same reason - I do enjoy helping my brother in law, as he has a lot lower level of acceptance than me and we like each others company => he is happy with the result and I feel good for helping and company = a win, win situation.

I have often abandoned my own projects if I don't have access to the tools I know how to get a result that satisfies me (or lack of knowledge on how to achieve the same with what I have) - another reason to hang out here, so I can learn and be inspired to other way to skin that cat 

[Chipswitheverything]

Zee has come up with another very interesting topic of discussion, and everyone's reply has been individual and different, reflecting the variety of experience, personality and probably all sorts of other things that a psychologist would value as a good starting point for a thesis!  Very good reading!

 I suppose my feeling would be, yes, I hope to do my best in this excellent hobby, but am prepared to filter what may be possible through the ( presently fairly considerable ) constraint of the time that I can spend with it.  Also, certain limitations of the equipment and the room that I actually have, against daydreams of what might be the ideal: - maybe feasible expenditure too.  And, needless to say, through limitations of skill and acquired experience of some processes, but certainly not of others.

If a hobby does not give a reasonable measure of satisfaction and pleasure to the participant,  I don't really see why anyone would want to pursue it for the long term.  Anyone who can only find fault with all that they produce, even though it may in fact be at a good standard of skill, will not get much fun from what was meant to be an enjoyable diversion from mundane cares and problems.
Not arguing for being happy with an effort that is under par, but I think it is reasonable to feel a certain degree of modest satisfaction when, say, a piece of machining that has given a bit of apprehension, in the end goes pretty well. Certainly, you wouldn't want to put it anywhere near a showcase with one of Mrs. Cherry Hill's wonderful models in it!, but you can accept that , for you, the result hasn't been too bad.  And that bit of remembered pleasure helps to send us back into the workshop to get on with another job, and , with a bit of luck, leads to the improvement that we hope will gradually come about.   Dave

[dvbydt]

Another brain exercise from Zee!
I love Dave's comment :-

"There is no shortage of things I'm not good at."

I'll go along with that!!

I am not good at cutting my losses if I get an idea. My latest engine posted on here had no drawings - it just evolved, so I kept on working at it till it worked.
Had it not worked I am reminded of Shakespeare's Hamlet :-

"For ’tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard"

Or in other words I would be up the creek without a paddle and a useless little engine!

There is a story of an Engineer who was asked if he could play the piano. His reply was "I don't know, I have never tried."
 My wife comment on this was that he could probably have told anyone who asked -  how it worked and even made a good try at building one.

Keep it going Zee, we all appreciate any insight into why we bother.

Ian

[zeeprogrammer]

Fascinating thread. I really enjoy the responses and I learn things, not just about fellow members, but about myself.

As a plus, it's given me another idea for a, hopefully, interesting topic. 

[10KPete]

I'm just so darned happy to be retired, alive and having fun. If I mess up a part, big deal. I've got a little time, I hope, to make another!

No worries, Mate!

Pete

[Kim]

My response is going to sound similar to others, but here goes:

I'm not that great, but I'm better than I was, and I feel that I'm continuing to learn new skills and improve existing ones.  So, I'm quite enjoying our little hobby.

However, I do find that if I spend more than 4-5 hours in my shop consecutively, I start feeling pressure to "get it done" and it starts to feel less fun and more like work.  So, I'm learning to stop before I get to that point.  It keeps it fun.  When it stops being fun, its work, and I don't want to work any more than I have to.  Especially for stuff I'm not getting paid to do!

And though I'm not that good, and I can see many imperfections in what I do, I treat those as things I'll do better NEXT time.  And I try to focus on the improvements I've made, and the additional complexity I've taken on.  Cause really, what fun would it be to have no where to improve?  Nothing more to learn?  I'd get board and find something else to do!

It helps keep it fun, which is important to me for a hobby
Kim

[gary.a.ayres]

I always focus on the mistakes and glitches. They come rushing to the front while the ok bits recede into the background. Other people saying 'it looks good to me' doesn't seem to make any difference because I know the errors are there.

However, there is a cure for this affliction: consume a couple of beers and a goodly amount of red wine and then go and look again. It's surprising the difference it makes.

 

[propforward]

Fun thread.

"How good are you really?"

Not nearly as good as I thought I was. That was humbling at first, but then I just embraced it and went with it. Learn new techniques, be honest about results. Sometimes I get a result that is every bit as good as what I would expect to get if I paid a machine shop to make something. Other times, not so much. Sometimes I scrap parts. That's embarrassing, maybe even a little annoying, but at the end of the day, I am really enjoying machining. It is challenging, rewarding, and the focus it takes gets my mind off other things and lets me unwind. So if I'm not all that "good" at it, I don't care a whole lot. I did, for a while, but now I'm all about having fun, and frankly I'm making progress and improving as a result.

Time away from the hobby can be important when a roadblock hits. Such is life.

So there.

[zeeprogrammer]

Well said, Stuart. We are kin.

[Flyboy Jim]

I always focus on the mistakes and glitches. They come rushing to the front while the ok bits recede into the background. Other people saying 'it looks good to me' doesn't seem to make any difference because I know the errors are there.

However, there is a cure for this affliction: consume a couple of beers and a goodly amount of red wine and then go and look again. It's surprising the difference it makes.

 

It's nice to see this thread surface again. It was interesting to go back and read what my "pearls of wisdom" were a year and a half ago. 

Anyway Gary, to add to your cure for the affliction....................give it some time. I've built things and knew where the errors were. However, some time later, whatever the project was, it looked good and I couldn't remember for the life of what the errors were! 

Of course, that said,............these days I have a hard time remembering what I ate for breakfast     ..................but I can remember all the kids names that were at my 1st grade birthday party! 

Jim

[gary.a.ayres]

Anyway Gary, to add to your cure for the affliction....................give it some time. I've built things and knew where the errors were. However, some time later, whatever the project was, it looked good and I couldn't remember for the life of what the errors were! 

Indeed, Jim. The cure I suggested is effective but only temporarily so. As you say, just giving it some space often helps achieve a more balanced view.

Acknowledge and learn from the mistakes (which often arise out of inattention, impatience or complacency)  but don't get so caught up in self-criticism that they get more than their fair share of the attention. Otherwise - as many have said above - it stops being fun, and where's the fun in that?

[Jo]

Sadly of late "good" only occurs in short bursts between much longer spats of "Why on earth did I do that"  or "what was I doing"  or more often of late "why can't I work out how to do this"   

The girls have told me I have something they call "baby brain" and NO its nothing to do with a mad desire for a baby  The symptoms are if I try to do something which requires any sort of concentration after an hour I find myself totally unable to think straight 


Maybe it is a symptom of having been retired for 18 months 

Jo

[zeeprogrammer]

The symptoms are if I try to do something which requires any sort of concentration after an hour I find myself totally unable to think straight 
Maybe it is a symptom of having been retired for 18 months 

Interesting. I've noticed the same problem.
We need a solution. Something other than (shudder) returning to work.

[gbritnell]

Ok here goes!
The question can be answered very simply or drawn out to great lengths.
Me personally in my life I have had the good fortune to have been exposed to many of the manual crafts, art, plumbing, woodwork, mechanics and not the least of which is machining. Whenever I was around someone who was doing something I took a great interest and asked a lot of questions.
I think for those of us that have had similar exposures it comes down to dedication to do the best in whichever discipline we enjoy the most.
 You have to take into account that in general today's culture doesn't expose the youth to the many manual arts that we were exposed to unless a parent passes along his knowledge.
 As far as mistakes, who doesn't make them? I don't know how many times I've made a part over with a head slap thinking "why on earth did I do that?" I guess where the dividing line between our satisfaction with a finished piece and the next person is where we choose to say "I'm happy with the part!" Warts and all. Some choose to redo a job or part until it's basically perfect. My response is whatever makes you happy. In this life it's all about happiness and whatever we can do to make ourselves, or others happy, then go for it!
 Everyone has had good responses to the original question so take a little from each and enjoy the day.
gbritnell

[Jo]

Something other than (shudder) returning to work.

Bad boy    No one in their right minds wants to go to work  especially after they have tasted the joys of retirement 


Now what was I doing 

Jo

[Mcgyver]

  I guess where the dividing line between our satisfaction with a finished piece and the next person is where we choose to say "I'm happy with the part!" Warts and all. Some choose to redo a job or part until it's basically perfect. My response is whatever makes you happy.

agreed.....its a hobby so creating a happy state is the reason for it all.  What is happiness?  My philosopher uncle would say something like its when pleasure overcomes pain.  Me, I think it was to do with striving and triumph; that sense of accomplishment.  that means at whatever level you are, somehow happiness is connected with pushing yourself slightly out of the comfort zone to do more. 

One chap I know presents his models with a long string of "It should be like this, but to heck that", "I couldn't be bother with this thing", " who has time for such and such".  The whole effort was a study in undershooting what he was capable of doing and knew was the 'right' way.   I wonder if he'll have much of a sense of happiness at its completion.  Maybe just because he gets to see the end of it lol.  Or perhaps it does make him happy.  I guess we really only know our own psychology, if that.

[propforward]

I always focus on the mistakes and glitches.

If someone wants to improve, then it is necessary to do this. Most of us here - myself for sure, and clearly you, get a lot of satisfaction out of making things, and seeing a general improvement as time and number of parts made progresses. But it's also important to acknowledge when something came out well. A critical eye, and then standing back and declaring that yes, this part came out as "good" and is what was wanted, and having a bit of understanding why it came out "good", is just as important as understanding why something went wrong.

I'm not a perfectionist, I've made parts that I ended up saying "good enough", moved on with the project and got it to a successful completion, only to find that next time I made a similar part, wonder of wonders, it came out much better than last time.

Most of all, as long as you get a sense of fulfillment / enjoyment out of it, then it's all good. I fly cut a piece of aluminum yesterday - that little act alone was very satisfying.

You can celebrate little successes like that with a fine ale or a red wine also.       

I've seen your stuff Gary, you make good parts, I think you should be proud of your achievements over all. I'm enjoying seeing your steam plant progress. 

[gerritv]

Life IMO is about learning. Learning is done by doing. Each day I try to learn something, apply it and then improve on that if I need that skill again.

I started machining as a hobby 6 years ago. I bit off more than my little machine could chew, but with persistence and trial/error got a long way in. Then I bought a larger lathe, and things improved again. Ditto with drill grinding, after 6 drills I can now consistently do a four-facet grind with my Alexander single-lip grinder. Thankfully the first ones were jobber length, one is now stub length but it cuts well.

So, how good am I really? Better than some, not as good as others but always good enough for me. And forever willing to learn how to improve. My whole life has been lived that way, all 71 of them. Best thing is that I am content.

Gerrit

[propforward]

I think I'm all out of wisdom. I didn't have very much to begin with. I just wish I was in my shoppe making chips. But I'm stuck at work, earning money to pay the shoppe heating and leccy bills. Oh well.

Better stop wasting time on the intertubez and get back to it.

[Don1966]

Ok here goes!
The question can be answered very simply or drawn out to great lengths.
Me personally in my life I have had the good fortune to have been exposed to many of the manual crafts, art, plumbing, woodwork, mechanics and not the least of which is machining. Whenever I was around someone who was doing something I took a great interest and asked a lot of questions.
I think for those of us that have had similar exposures it comes down to dedication to do the best in whichever discipline we enjoy the most.
 You have to take into account that in general today's culture doesn't expose the youth to the many manual arts that we were exposed to unless a parent passes along his knowledge.
 As far as mistakes, who doesn't make them? I don't know how many times I've made a part over with a head slap thinking "why on earth did I do that?" I guess where the dividing line between our satisfaction with a finished piece and the next person is where we choose to say "I'm happy with the part!" Warts and all. Some choose to redo a job or part until it's basically perfect. My response is whatever makes you happy. In this life it's all about happiness and whatever we can do to make ourselves, or others happy, then go for it!
 Everyone has had good responses to the original question so take a little from each and enjoy the day.
gbritnell

Well said George and I had similar exposer to different crafts. The quality of parts is up to the individual as to how perfect he or she wants them and they decide how good they are. It’s all about enjoying what you do and how much interest and time your willing to put into the finished product.

Don

[Roger B]

Indeed, I have always admired Don's (almost jewellery), George's and others fine attention to the finish of their models. However that is not my interest, I need to understand how it works and how I can make it work better. I make plenty of trial pieces but that is how you learn. Everyone has their own version of their hobby, all are valid 

[bent]

Wow, I like all of these responses.  Personally, I'm middlin', just good enough to get things to work, and look ok.  Some of the modellers who post here are making art, and jewelry...and I look on in awe.  Others are making 8-cylinder engines, and diesels, and other wildy complex machines from scratch...and again, I sit in awe.  I started making model engines from sheer curiosity, and then found a whole community of people doing the same thing, in various ways.  I'm currently just making stuff that I'm curious about, thus flame eaters and stirling cycle engines.

Jo, "The girls have told me I have something they call "baby brain" and NO its nothing to do with a mad desire for a baby  The symptoms are if I try to do something which requires any sort of concentration after an hour I find myself totally unable to think straight  "

Yeah, I'm getting that way as I get older (and nearer retirement?).  I find myself losing my desire to concentrate on something after an hour or two, and so have a laundry list of projects (and books to read, and websites to browse, and honey-do chores) that I can skip to.  This week, I have some 3-way valves and tubing to adapt to some differential pressure meters in the shop, so we can use one instrument to check two differentials.  A simple, dull little project, but I need to fabricate some brackets for the various installations, and that will probably kill an afternoon or two.  Then back to hydraulic design and planning for upcoming testing of a big 12" flow control valve...and maybe spending some actual machining time in my gargage and get the fan motor built...

[gary.a.ayres]

@ bent - I recognise that. The already-almost-endless-but-ever-increasing list of projects.It would be great to complete more than just a few of them in one's lifetime. I hate the thought of one day (hopefully not too soon) lying on my death bed wishing that I could finish my unfinished projects, but that - I fear - is highly unlikely. But at least we'll never be bored.

@ Jo and Zee - retirement? Does that even exist nowadays!? I guess it must for some lucky people, yourselves included. I semi-retired eight years ago, then - sick of working for The Borg - took early retirement this year, and now I'm self-employed and working twice as hard as I have in a decade. Which hopefully means that the wolf will stay away from my door but it also means that I spend much more time wishing I was in my shop  than I spend in it.  I'm sure I'm not alone in that...

@ Stuart - thank you for your kind comments.

gary

[awake]

Indeed, I have always admired Don's (almost jewellery), George's and others fine attention to the finish of their models. However that is not my interest, I need to understand how it works and how I can make it work better. I make plenty of trial pieces but that is how you learn. Everyone has their own version of their hobby, all are valid 

I have to admit to wanting the final product to look reasonably good, but I resonate with Roger's desire - for me the ultimate satisfaction is in figuring out how it works and being able to make it work. That tends to be true regardless of what "it" is - machine work, wood work, baking bread, making cheese ... clearly I have too many hobbies, and need to retire ASAP so that I can devote proper time to them all!