Author Topic: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage  (Read 29266 times)

Online crueby

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #330 on: April 10, 2019, 03:01:35 PM »
Hello Chris @crueby,

As I expected a ton of good information from you. The diagonal bracing is a must and will be an easy addition to include. I like the idea of some sort of epoxy paint but will require me to do a lot of research. Reading through your reply has given me an idea for another approach to overall construction. I have to make a run into Lufkin this morning and will stop by the paint store and have a talk with them.

Thanks so much for all your help and time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
While there is epoxy paint, I was thinking of just brushing on epoxy resin to seal the wood and smooth it, then painting over that. The newer epoxies dont have any amine blush (wax forming on the surface) like the older ones did. I use the System 3 Silvertip epoxy now, it is thin enough to brush/roll on, and has zero amine blush. Without putting on the cloth (which you dont need in your build) there is no weave to fill, so even a single coat is helpful, two is better, and it sands fairly easily. Then you can paint with whatever paint you want. The 3M 5200 in the joints with the edge trim would seal that up, and keep the edge grain from soaking up any moisture while driving in the rain.
 :cheers:

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #331 on: April 10, 2019, 06:27:27 PM »
Hello Chris @crueby,

As I expected a ton of good information from you. The diagonal bracing is a must and will be an easy addition to include. I like the idea of some sort of epoxy paint but will require me to do a lot of research. Reading through your reply has given me an idea for another approach to overall construction. I have to make a run into Lufkin this morning and will stop by the paint store and have a talk with them.

Thanks so much for all your help and time.

Have a great day,
Thomas
While there is epoxy paint, I was thinking of just brushing on epoxy resin to seal the wood and smooth it, then painting over that. The newer epoxies dont have any amine blush (wax forming on the surface) like the older ones did. I use the System 3 Silvertip epoxy now, it is thin enough to brush/roll on, and has zero amine blush. Without putting on the cloth (which you dont need in your build) there is no weave to fill, so even a single coat is helpful, two is better, and it sands fairly easily. Then you can paint with whatever paint you want. The 3M 5200 in the joints with the edge trim would seal that up, and keep the edge grain from soaking up any moisture while driving in the rain.
 :cheers:

Hello Chris,

OK, did not know about this process but it sounds like a much easier and better approach. I will google System 3 Silvertip epoxy and read up on it. Sounds like this project is doable :cartwheel:

Stopped at the paint store but the main guy was not there so I will have to catch him on the next trip. They may stock the System 3 Silvertip epoxy.

Have a great day,
Thomas

PS: I sent you a PM

Online crueby

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #332 on: April 10, 2019, 06:35:11 PM »
Another great resource on glueing with epoxy is from the West System folks, they do a little magazine with lots of project tips:
https://www.westsystem.com/projects/
I have used their products a lot, but think the Silvertip is better at the moment. Great info from them here:
https://www.systemthree.com/pages/resources
You can find it a lot of places online, prices do vary a bunch place to place.

Offline bent

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #333 on: April 10, 2019, 07:17:57 PM »
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #334 on: April 10, 2019, 07:28:24 PM »
Another great resource on glueing with epoxy is from the West System folks, they do a little magazine with lots of project tips:
https://www.westsystem.com/projects/
I have used their products a lot, but think the Silvertip is better at the moment. Great info from them here:
https://www.systemthree.com/pages/resources
You can find it a lot of places online, prices do vary a bunch place to place.


Hello again Chris,

Saved both of the addresses in my favorites and will read up on them.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Online crueby

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #335 on: April 10, 2019, 07:34:04 PM »
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!
Add on the big racing slicks on the back, headers, velocity stacks...   :Lol:

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #336 on: April 10, 2019, 07:37:37 PM »
Leaving some of the wood as clear finish might look really good too; maybe just the edges/trim?

I was gonna post something about a plywood body and flames, but it seems inappropriate.  I like the Model T lines, and it goes with your name and logo, Thomas!


Hello Bent,

I love the natural wood finish and will see in time if that can be worked into the build. I had planned on the instrument panel, albeit really small and sparse, to be natural and hopefully with some Brass switches and gauges.

Don't hesitate about posting something here, flames included... :Lol: after all, with the gearing (sprockets and chains) it should do a blistering 35 mph. :whoohoo:

Have a great day,
Thomas


Offline bent

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #337 on: April 11, 2019, 06:15:03 PM »
35 mph!  You need to start engineering the roll cage and 5-pt. harness!  :ROFL:

Ooooh...oversize brass gauges and dials.  Sounds very cool.  Hmm...hard to find replicas though - lots of antique stuff on ebay going for ridiculous $.

Rock Auto has this antique-y gage, but 120 mph?  Of course you could calibrate it so 35 mph actual = 120 mph indicated...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8416388&jsn=336

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #338 on: April 11, 2019, 08:01:22 PM »
Hey Thomas, I guess I am one of the ones thatís been ďsilently following along, but man Iím digging your build. TBH, been wanting to do something like this since the frame on my first mini-bike broke (circa 1971)   :lolb: :lolb:  ifín a fella could come up with an instrument panel from a small Mooney airplane; would you be interested? Think I can gets some pictures by Monday. Enjoy the springtime  :cheers:

Cletus

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #339 on: April 11, 2019, 09:22:04 PM »
35 mph!  You need to start engineering the roll cage and 5-pt. harness!  :ROFL:

Ooooh...oversize brass gauges and dials.  Sounds very cool.  Hmm...hard to find replicas though - lots of antique stuff on ebay going for ridiculous $.

Rock Auto has this antique-y gage, but 120 mph?  Of course you could calibrate it so 35 mph actual = 120 mph indicated...
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8416388&jsn=336

Hello Bent,

I have seen ( but not lately ) some re-pops of old gauges in brass, guess I had better start looking again. The brass switches are still available through marine supply stores, bought some not too long ago they were a bit pricy.

In place of a roll cage, I will supply each passenger with a quart of shine....to be consumed prior to take off :DrinkPint:

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #340 on: April 11, 2019, 09:36:58 PM »
Hey Thomas, I guess I am one of the ones thatís been ďsilently following along, but man Iím digging your build. TBH, been wanting to do something like this since the frame on my first mini-bike broke (circa 1971)   :lolb: :lolb:  ifín a fella could come up with an instrument panel from a small Mooney airplane; would you be interested? Think I can gets some pictures by Monday. Enjoy the springtime  :cheers:

Cletus


Hello Cletus,

Are you talking about a Mooney Mite? I flew one of those little planes one time and that was a hot little baby and sensitive as all get-out. Don't go out of your way but would love to see some photos. Unfortunately none of the instruments would work  :thinking:, well it would be cool to have an Altimeter and a Turn Indicator on the dash  :lolb: :ROFL: That sure would get my passengers attention  :facepalm:

You need to build one of these Buggies for your place, but your machine should run on steam. When I first started working on the plans for mine, I seriously considered steam.

Thanks for following along and have a great day,
Thomas

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #341 on: April 11, 2019, 10:54:55 PM »
Thomas, I think itís from an M20 Mooney. Itís in my BILís estate and I can easily nab it. Headed that way this weekend and will get pictures.

Cletus

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #342 on: April 11, 2019, 11:22:13 PM »
Thomas, I think itís from an M20 Mooney. Itís in my BILís estate and I can easily nab it. Headed that way this weekend and will get pictures.

Cletus

Hello Cletus,

OK a big Mooney, if memory servers me right that is a four place aircraft. That should have all kinds of good instruments and radios. Looking forward to see the photos.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline bent

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #343 on: April 12, 2019, 10:25:15 PM »
You absolutely must have the turn/bank indicator.  Altimeter too, with a hidden switch you can throw to make it suddenly unspool at the same time the turn/bank indicator starts to roll wildly.  :Jester:

You could probably do a copper sulfate reaction to put a copper gleam on chromed gages.  Or do a little home metal spinning with brass sheet to make your own bezel ring to cover a modern chrome plated gage.  Or run a speedo cable up to a Watts governer style whirligig, with attached gage pointer for speedo readout, that would be cool too.  Or, one last idea would be a pitot-static tube rigged to a red-dyed kerosene slant-tube manometer (I think some of the early biplanes actually had these installed for airspeed indicators?).  Extra points if the pitot and static taps form part of the flying woman from a Packard/Rolls hood ornament.

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #344 on: April 13, 2019, 12:07:40 AM »
You absolutely must have the turn/bank indicator.  Altimeter too, with a hidden switch you can throw to make it suddenly unspool at the same time the turn/bank indicator starts to roll wildly.  :Jester:

You could probably do a copper sulfate reaction to put a copper gleam on chromed gages.  Or do a little home metal spinning with brass sheet to make your own bezel ring to cover a modern chrome plated gage.  Or run a speedo cable up to a Watts governer style whirligig, with attached gage pointer for speedo readout, that would be cool too.  Or, one last idea would be a pitot-static tube rigged to a red-dyed kerosene slant-tube manometer (I think some of the early biplanes actually had these installed for airspeed indicators?).  Extra points if the pitot and static taps form part of the flying woman from a Packard/Rolls hood ornament.

Hello Bent,

I would have to put a fan in front of the pitot-static tube to get any kind of a reading at my speed  :Jester:, however find me a Flying Woman hood ornament and I will install it.

Have a great day,
Thomas