Author Topic: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage  (Read 26992 times)

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #135 on: September 25, 2018, 06:11:04 PM »
Starting to look more and more like a car!
Um, it will fit through those doors when done?   :shrug:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Hello Chris,

Yes in both cases, looking more like a car and it will (barely) go through the doors when both are opened up.

I stood on the very rear of the Chassis and gave the Springs a good test and they seemed to work OK.

Back out in the shop to get a bit more work completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Online Kim

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #136 on: September 25, 2018, 08:41:35 PM »
The springs look pretty good on there, Thomas!

The springs are attached with 3 bolts, but it seems only the center bolt can actually be tightened up.  Do the outside two just keep it from rotating?  And do you have to locktite those nuts to keep them from falling off?

Interesting build for sure!
Kim

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #137 on: September 25, 2018, 09:33:54 PM »
The springs look pretty good on there, Thomas!

The springs are attached with 3 bolts, but it seems only the center bolt can actually be tightened up.  Do the outside two just keep it from rotating?  And do you have to locktite those nuts to keep them from falling off?

Interesting build for sure!
Kim

Hi Kim,

All three bolts will ( when I do the final hook-up ) be tightened. The center bolt pulls up tight (metal to metal), the two outside bolts will have a rubber washer sandwiched between the Spring and the "bracket". There will be almost no compression of the Spring in this area (4.75") the length of the bracket plate. The final hook-up all the nuts will be aircraft self-locking style. And yes, the two outside bolts are for alignment and added strength.

Thanks for following along and your input, have a great day.
Thomas

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #138 on: September 25, 2018, 09:41:40 PM »
Hello everyone,

OK here is one of those little project that wind up taking a half day to make. This is the Axle / Spring bracket that welds to the Axle and the Spring then bolts to it. The Engine Frame is held in place only by the two Springs on either side of the Chassis and the two pivot points. All of the “drive components” including the motor are mounted on the Engine Frame which is welded to the two Enclosed Axle Housings. Thus all of the combined weight is directly on the two rear Wheels. The Chassis and Body components weight is separate from the Engine Frame components and rest on both the Front and Rear Springs. I designed it this way for several reasons, one being it should produce a much softer ride.

It’s time to turn the lights off in the shop and have a glass of spirits.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Online Kim

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #139 on: September 26, 2018, 05:20:59 AM »
The Engine Frame is held in place only by the two Springs on either side of the Chassis and the two pivot points. All of the “drive components” including the motor are mounted on the Engine Frame which is welded to the two Enclosed Axle Housings. Thus all of the combined weight is directly on the two rear Wheels. The Chassis and Body components weight is separate from the Engine Frame components and rest on both the Front and Rear Springs. I designed it this way for several reasons, one being it should produce a much softer ride.
So, is this arrangement prototypical for these early horseless carriages?  Or are you just doing that way because it will give you a better ride?  Sorry for all the questions. I'm just quite intrigued with your build.  :)
Kim

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #140 on: September 26, 2018, 08:40:47 AM »

[/quote]
So, is this arrangement prototypical for these early horseless carriages?  Or are you just doing that way because it will give you a better ride?  Sorry for all the questions. I'm just quite intrigued with your build.  :)
Kim
[/quote]

Hello Kim,

You are not asking too many questions, I really appreciate the interest in my project. When I first started researching this era of “horseless carriages”, back in 2015, I was amazed at the ingenuity and ability of these early creators and builders. Most of the “automobiles” up to the end of the 1800's were of a chain drive design and there were various arrangements how the motor was connected to the driven axle. However, most had the motor mounted on the chassis and the driven axle mounted to the suspension system. This style of arrangement would allow slack in the chain when there was any up and down motion of the driven axle, like driving on a rough road. This caused a “popping” in the chain and occasionally the chain would break. If you look at some of the early photos you will notice that some of the driven sprockets were quite large and placed the chain close to the ground. As far as the design on my Buggy I believe it is unique and what I tried to do is eliminate as much of the bad elements found in a chain drive system and make improvements in other areas.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline bent

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #141 on: September 26, 2018, 06:24:36 PM »
Yup on that, the double/triple reduction keeps you from having a big ungainly sprocket catching in the weeds.  The unsprung motor/drivetrain mounting should also help keep the chains from dancing around too much.   :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to seeing how you put the front end together.  I'd probably weld a couple of salvaged bicycle front ends on there, but I have a hunch our wily Thomas will surprise us with something a bit more engine-e-ous.  :popcorn:

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #142 on: September 26, 2018, 06:37:51 PM »
Yup on that, the double/triple reduction keeps you from having a big ungainly sprocket catching in the weeds.  The unsprung motor/drivetrain mounting should also help keep the chains from dancing around too much.   :ThumbsUp:

I'm looking forward to seeing how you put the front end together.  I'd probably weld a couple of salvaged bicycle front ends on there, but I have a hunch our wily Thomas will surprise us with something a bit more engine-e-ous.  :popcorn:

Hello Bent,

Just a little more progress today. Cut the Front Axle longer than needed so that I could go ahead and weld the front Axle / Spring brackets to it. I will cut it to the correct length after the Spindles are made and ready to weld in place. As you can see, the front Axle is now bolted in place to the Springs. I will add a pair of draglinks to each side that will connect the Front Axle to the Chassis. Each link will have adjustable ends to fine tune the alignment.

All that is needed now to make this a full rolling chassis is the Rear Axle and the Front Spindles and of course the wheels/tires.  In the photos, the height of the Chassis is just one-inch lower than it will be when the wheels / tires are installed. Have not decided to make a Step or a Running Board for each side to make it easier to get in and out.

So what do you think my friend?

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #143 on: October 02, 2018, 12:20:18 PM »
Hello everyone,

Finally found a shop that could sandblast and primer the Chassis so I took all the parts over to Nacogdoches last Saturday. Here are couple photos showing it reassembled again with a coat of primer. Hopefully the tires and wheels will come in this week and I can get back to work getting the parts assembled to a stage-three rolling Chassis. In the meantime will work on the Press-Brake.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline crueby

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #144 on: October 02, 2018, 01:45:20 PM »
Wow, looking great!


What is a press brake? Other than a pedal you press ti brake, that is?


 :popcorn:

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #145 on: October 02, 2018, 02:05:27 PM »
Wow, looking great!


What is a press brake? Other than a pedal you press ti brake, that is?


 :popcorn:

Hello Chris and thank you,

The primer brings all of the parts together and does add to the appearance.

Press-Brake is a machine used to make bends in metal. The one that I am building is actually a Vertical Press, meaning the Punch and Die are set up vertically, with the Punch vertically above the Die. People nowdays use the term "press-brake" to describe both a Press and a Brake. Generally a Brake is used to bend sheet metal or the lighter gauge material and in most cases is manually operated. Whereas a Press is normally used to bend heavier materials and is either hydraulic or air operated. I will convert my concept drawing into a pdf. format and post it here later today.

Have a great day,
Thomas


Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #146 on: October 02, 2018, 02:23:34 PM »
Hello again Chris,

Attached is a pdf Concept drawing of the Press that I am making now. I sold my big 3-foot / 20-ton Press because I was not using it that much and needed the room in my shop, so I designed this one. I will have some parts to bend for the Buggy and other steam engine projects but most all bends will be less than 12-inches wide and no more than a 1/4-inch thick. The 8-ton bottle jack will provide all the power that I need to operate this Press, but I can install a 10-ton if needed, the design is built to handle 10-tons plus.

I am now milling the two outside plates that are a part of the punch. I hope to get started on milling the punch some time today. I have most of the other parts already completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas

Offline crueby

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #147 on: October 02, 2018, 03:17:16 PM »
Hello again Chris,

Attached is a pdf Concept drawing of the Press that I am making now. I sold my big 3-foot / 20-ton Press because I was not using it that much and needed the room in my shop, so I designed this one. I will have some parts to bend for the Buggy and other steam engine projects but most all bends will be less than 12-inches wide and no more than a 1/4-inch thick. The 8-ton bottle jack will provide all the power that I need to operate this Press, but I can install a 10-ton if needed, the design is built to handle 10-tons plus.

I am now milling the two outside plates that are a part of the punch. I hope to get started on milling the punch some time today. I have most of the other parts already completed.

Have a great day,
Thomas
Excellent, sure it will find a number of uses on the projects!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline bent

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #148 on: October 02, 2018, 09:42:31 PM »
Wouldn't think you'd need sandblasting since you started with such clean steel - or were you just looking to make sure all the slag got removed?  Either way, looks pretty slick in its primer coat.  Can't wait to see you mount the motor and wheels and take it for a test spin around the yard.  :)

Offline Ye-Ole Steam Dude

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Re: 1898 Automobile A.K.A. horseless carriage
« Reply #149 on: October 02, 2018, 10:17:34 PM »
Wouldn't think you'd need sandblasting since you started with such clean steel - or were you just looking to make sure all the slag got removed?  Either way, looks pretty slick in its primer coat.  Can't wait to see you mount the motor and wheels and take it for a test spin around the yard.  :)

Hello Bent,

Sandblasting removes all the weld residue that I could not get to and it gets all the factory oil and scale off the surface. The primer paint has a really great surface to adhere to and a later sanding and second coat of primer makes for a better final paint coat.

I am getting a bit anxious to start mounting the motor and drive train but I need to wait until it is a rolling chassis.

Have a great day,
Thomas