Author Topic: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss  (Read 4161 times)

Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 12:16:17 AM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.  Regarding the long reach drill, if you have the clearance, you can make a simple drill extension from bar stock.

-Bob
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My Engine Videos on YouTube-
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Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 12:21:53 AM »
Thanks also for those silently following alongÖ

I'm one.  ;D
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2018, 10:22:22 PM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.
-Bob
Yikes- Donít compare my speed with ChrisÖHe builds Ĺ a steam shovel while I contemplate drilling a hole! :ROFL:

Thanks also for those silently following alongÖ

I'm one.  ;D

Zee- you could never be accused of being silent on this forum  :lolb:

Moving onward with this buildÖ

I was at a bit of a loss on how to mill the top of the cylinder flat (in preparation of receiving the cylinder head).   Iím afraid a boring bar would chatter terribly.  I decided to mill it flat with an end mill, working around the top recess to the size of the head. 
Then I used a boring head and boring bar to make a smooth profile for appearances only, ;leaving a thou or two of clearance from the milled surface. 



Once that was complete it was time to drill these two bosses for receiving the side shaft.  From intuition (and a few horror stories Iíve heard) I knew these two reamed holes needed to be in precise alignment.  I started by using a center drill and then a drill (one size down from 3/8th inch) to drill the rear boss.



With this hole drilled, I fabricated a rod of the same diameter as the hole I had just drilled to hold a center drill, I then used this to center the hole in the forward boss.



I then used a long reach drill to drill the forward boss.



I followed this up by reaming the two bosses with a 3/8th inch ream.



Clearance for the helical gear mounted to the side shaft needs to be milled into this engine base. 



The clearance is more art than science, I just kept removing a bit of material till with a test fit, the gear clears.



The boss on which the ignitor mounts is milled to the proper length.



A few holes are tapped and drilled for mounting the governor.



With the exception of a few holes that need ďspottedĒ, the machining on the engine base is complete.

Craig

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 12:12:00 AM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.
-Bob
Yikes- Donít compare my speed with ChrisÖHe builds Ĺ a steam shovel while I contemplate drilling a hole! :ROFL:

 :lolb: :lolb:

Chis has help. All he has to do is bake cookies.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 01:06:55 AM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.
-Bob
Yikes- Donít compare my speed with ChrisÖHe builds Ĺ a steam shovel while I contemplate drilling a hole! :ROFL:
Chis has help. All he has to do is bake cookies.
 :lolb: :lols

Yea, I know.  I baked cookies for MY elves a while back; they tasted them and immediately went on strike.  I guess I'm not much of a baker.  :Lol:

Craig

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2018, 01:15:28 AM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.
-Bob
Yikes- Donít compare my speed with ChrisÖHe builds Ĺ a steam shovel while I contemplate drilling a hole! :ROFL:
Chis has help. All he has to do is bake cookies.
 :lolb: :lols

Yea, I know.  I baked cookies for MY elves a while back; they tasted them and immediately went on strike.  I guess I'm not much of a baker.  :Lol:

Crud. You and Chris have elves. I'm on my own. That says a lot about the kind of baker I am.  :ROFL: :ROFL:
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline crueby

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2018, 01:39:22 AM »
You work fast Craig.  This build is moving at Crueby speed.
-Bob
Yikes- Donít compare my speed with ChrisÖHe builds Ĺ a steam shovel while I contemplate drilling a hole! :ROFL:
Chis has help. All he has to do is bake cookies.
 :lolb: :lols

Yea, I know.  I baked cookies for MY elves a while back; they tasted them and immediately went on strike.  I guess I'm not much of a baker.  :Lol:

Crud. You and Chris have elves. I'm on my own. That says a lot about the kind of baker I am.  :ROFL: :ROFL:


 8)


Chris, the big elf on the end.
 :cheers:

Offline Myrickman

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2018, 12:27:06 AM »
Craig, yup machining the side shaft bearings is a bit of a plaid pincher to be sure. Looks like it turned out just fine. I'll be following along on your journey. Mounting the base on a support plate sure helps with keeping everything square and in alignment. Thanks for the nice build documentation. Paul

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2018, 10:28:24 PM »
Paul, Chris, Zee; thanks for your comments. 

Paul, I was delighted.  After drilling and reaming the two supports for the side shaft, a drill rod slid nicely through the two holes.  The alignment is spot on and I sure am relieved.     

With Florence the hurricane taking a bulls-eye on Raleigh Iíve been working in the shop, wondering if Iíll have a shop next week to play in. :help:

Actually, latest forecasts show the track moving to the south so we here in Raleigh might be spared the worst.  Sure feel for those folks in Wilmington and South Carolina that are in the current track; my thoughts are with you.  May the Lord protect you.

Though Iíve been working on the model, I havenít been taking pictures; I guess my thoughts have been elsewhere.  I did finish the base and cylinder, as well as the head.  Today I made studs and model nuts.



Craig

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2018, 08:12:25 PM »
With only a few power flickers today; I managed to make some progress on the Myers.  I make no excuse for my foul mood in yesterdayís post.  We were expecting a Category 3 hurricane here in Raleigh; that is a hurricane that drops trees on your house and removes the roof. Fortunately, the storm downgraded to a category 1 before making landfall, and the new track has taken it far from us here in central North Carolina.  Lots of storm and folks without power on the coast; many are friends of mine and Iím worried for them, but things could have been much worse.  Thatís the way with these storms, you just have to wait them out and hope for the best.

On to the Myers.

I was working on the valve guides today.  Due to the construction of the head on this engine, the valves are made in parts and then assembled into the head.  Iíll try to remember to take pictures of that when I fabricate the valves, hopefully starting tomorrow.

Here are a few pictures of the machined head, before I pressed the valve guides in place. 

 

The valve guides are made of stainless steel.  Here Iíve started fabrication by turning the valve guide extension.


With the extension sized properly, Iíve cut the part from the stock, turned it around in the lathe, mounted it by the extension I turned above and have faced it and have just finished center drilling in preparation for making the valve chamber.



Here Iím drilling the valve chamber.  All Iím trying to do is just remove stock.



In this photo Iím drilling the valve guide extension in preparation for reaming it to finished size.


Now Iím reaming the valve guide for the 3/16 in. valve stem.


With that finished, Iím finishing the valve chamber to the required size with a boring bar.



For a good press fit into the head, I need to size the outside of this valve guide to .5945 inches.  This will give me a press fit of Ĺ thousandths of an inch.



The last lathe operation on this valve guild is cutting the 45 degree valve lip.  Iím doing this by running the lathe in reverse direction and using the compound to cut the required bevel.



The valve guide needs an opening for the fuel/air mixture to enter the valve chamber, or the exhaust gasses to escape.  Iím doing this on my mill drill.



With the valve guide complete, Iím pressing it into the head with my hand press.  Iím using a piece of plastic to keep from deforming the bottom of the valve guide.  At Ĺ thousandth press fit, this isnít a hard press.   



After finishing both valve guides, here is a picture of the head with both valve guides installed.  Next Iíll be working on the valves.


 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:45:12 PM by Craig DeShong »
Craig

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 12:46:24 AM »
Feel like I have missed a week of progress Craig. This one is really moving along quickly and looks great. As for the storm, the coast is devastated as are some areas inland like New Bern. It seems to just be camping out in one place. Hope you are spared  the earlier predictions for Raleigh. Still waiting on the rain to start here in the Charlotte area.

Bill

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2018, 06:17:48 PM »
Florence (the hurricane) didnít leave us completely unscathed; we were without power for around 20 hours over the weekend.  Iím not complaining, things could have been a lot worse.

Getting back in the shop, once things (sort of) got back to normal, work proceeded on the Myers engine.

I commenced work on the valve stems.  These were cut from 3/16th inch stainless steel.  I started by cutting the two shafts to length and facing each end; then center drilling both ends to facilitate threading.  I then mounted the shafts in the lathe and sanded them lightly until the would move smoothly through the valve guides I made in the last post.

Once this was done I threaded the valve cap end.  Though the drawings called for 10-32 threads I have 10-40 tap and die; so I decided to use these slightly finer threads for the valve cap ends, hoping that this might center the valve caps into the stems better than the courser threads.



Once I cut the threads on the lathe, I followed this with the re-threading die to clean up the threads.



Once I finished threading the valve stems for the valve caps I turned to threading the other end of the stems for the valve lifter end.  I uses 10-32 threads on this end as specified in the drawings.



Once again, after cutting the threads on the lathe I followed up by chasing the threads with a re-threading die.  Iíve found that if I support the outboard end of the die with a drill chuck, pressing lightly on the die to keep it centered, I get a straight even thread without the die wobbling and cutting off center threads.



The completed valve stems.


Starting on the valve caps; Iíve chucked a piece of 5/8th dia. stainless and am taking a facing cut.



Now Iím turning the .300 shoulder for mounting to the valve stem.



Rather than part the piece off, Iím sawing it off with my cut-off saw.



Back on the lathe now and turned around Iím facing the top of the valve to the specified thickness.



Center drilling in preparation for the 10-40 threads



Drilling with a .166 inch drill.  I had significant difficulty in threading this piece with this size hole; I ended up going up to a .173 inch drill; still plenty of meat for threading.



Cutting the 10-40 threads with a hand tap.



Iíve mounted the valve cap to the stem, fabricated a 10-40 nut; and am sizing the outside diameter to .600 inches.  My thoughts in following this procedure is that Iíd get a valve edge and seat that were as ďtrueĒ as I could make with a valve fabricated in this way.  The valve must be made this way in order to assemble it inside the cylinder head as youíll see a few pictures down.



Now Iím cutting the valve bevel to 45 degrees.



With valves built in this manner I was expecting that significant lapping would be required for them to seat.  This proved to be the case.  This was a frustrating job.  And a few times some lapping compound found its way to the valve stem and when this happened, everything just seized up and I needed to disassemble, clean everything, and start again.  With patience, the job was completed and the valves seal reasonable well.


Craig

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 10:45:38 PM »
I was hoping to get to the crankshaft next; but the material I ordered hadnít arrived, therefore: on to the flywheels.

Most of you know the drill, but in case notÖ You want to concentrate on getting the inside rim of the flywheel to be as centered as possible.  If the center hub wobbles a little itís not noticeable but if this inside rim isnít centered, the flywheel appears to ďwobbleĒ as it spins.  Iíve placed my test indicator on the inside lip and Iím slowly rotating the flywheel by hand, attempting to find a ďhappy mediumĒ: itís a casting so you wonít get it to run true but you can get it more or less centered.


Iím using my 9 inch Southbend lathe to turn this flywheel.  Iíd love to use the 12 inch Grizzly but the big lathe has a slowest speed of 70 RPM.  It needs to run MUCH slower to use high speed steel tooling with these big flywheels at that speed.  My machinist friends tell me I need to acquire some carbide tooling but till then Iíll use the Southbend that has a slow speed (on back gears) of 35 RPM and I can use my standard tooling at that speed.  It does result in some ďcreativeĒ use of tooling as I push this lathe to its turning diameter limit.


Once I have the diameter to the 8.5 inches as specified in the drawings Iím starting to turn one of the flywheel sides.



Using the same setup, Iím center drilling the flywheel in preparation for machining the shaft mount.



Now Iím drilling the center.  Iím merely trying to remove stock with this operation.



Maybe Iím making this job overly hard; but Iíd like the flywheel mounting hole to be centered.  Therefore, Iím boring the center hole to a few thousandths under the required diameter.



Finishing the center hole with a 5/8th inch ream.



I thought Iíd clean up this inside lip so when the flywheel is painted no wobble can be discerned as the engine runs.



Castings are castings.  This particular casting has this shoulder where material just doesnít exist where it should.  I was hoping that once I faced the side of the flywheel, there would be excess ďmeatĒ to allow me to remove this void.  With the flywheel specified to be .900 inches in width, this isnít going to be possible.  The obvious solution is to reduce the diameter of the flywheel further until the void comes to the surface.  The 8.5 inch diameter is really a ďsuggestionĒ; a diameter .040 inches under isnít going to be a problem let alone noticeable.

 

I tried to turn the flywheel around on the faceplate so I could face the other flywheel side but the hub is too deep for the flywheel to mount flush on the faceplate.   Machining the ďotherĒ flywheel side on the turntable isnít ideal, but it gets the job done.


The last operation is broaching the flywheel keyways.  Here Iím using an 1/8th inch broach and my hand press to accomplish the task.



The completed flywheels.

Craig

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2018, 11:12:31 PM »
Craig--You're doing nice work there. That is a most unusual way to have valves designed, so they have to be assembled in the head. I have never seen that before.---Brian

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bob Herder's Meyers side shaft hit and miss
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2018, 10:45:07 PM »
Brian- I must say this is a first for me too.  Were I to build this engine again, I might think of a way to fabricate the valve and "top shaft" as one part, and the bottom shaft as another: then joining them somehow ???  Just thinking and talking here (which usually gets me into trouble) :headscratch:

Work began on the crankshaft.  Since Iím using A36 hot rolled steel, I first faced the sides of the piece so that I would get an accurate measurement from my test indicator as I aligned the piece.




After centering the crankshaft center as well as the throw center at the ends of the crankshaft, I turned an arbor to hold a crankshaft end for forming the connecting rod journal.



I planned to use my indexing head to form the connecting rod journal.  As I worked the piece, it was rotating in the collet, regardless of how tightly I fastened it.



I switched to using my dividing head and holding the arbor with the 3-jaw chuck.  This resolved the problem.



By rotating the piece and successively milling down I roughed in the journal.  I usually rough in the journals in this manner as it saves time and reduces the requirement to remove massive amounts of material by reaching into the cut with a lathe tool.



Before sizing the journal, I plained the two internal faces of the crankshaft throw as well as its outside edge. 



Now with a flat ground parting tool I sized the journal to within a few thousandths of the target dimension (5/8th inch).  I then finished the diameter with a file.



With the ďnerve wrackingĒ part of this job done, itís on to the simple matter of sizing the shafts, which is a job to start tomorrow.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 01:49:27 AM by Craig DeShong »
Craig