Educating the "Youngin's"

[AOG]

I generally take Z’s approach but in an extremely sarcastic tone of voice to let them know they’ve screwed up. I also take the opertunity to explain the problem in real world terms. If they don’t see the real world application they tend to think your just being a hard donkey. Believe it or not in my experience, this new generation has a respect for people who “keep it real” ie “do” instead of “talk about”.  Use that to your advantage.

My two cents

Tony

[zeeprogrammer]

Believe it or not in my experience, this new generation has a respect for people who “keep it real” ie “do” instead of “talk about”.  Use that to your advantage.

 

I do believe the newer generations are getting undeserved hard knocks. Much of the problem is simply us wanting them to be like us but there's no reason to think that another way, if not better, is just different.

Having said that...my minimum requirements for getting along with anyone is respect and empathy.
And there's actually more of that than we might think.
Too often, I let the action of one be an example.

[paul gough]

Abuse and punishment engender resentment; guidance and enlightenment engender respect. Obviously the child showed initiative in finding a method to produce the required hole(s). I cannot help wondering why a precision instrument like a surface plate did not have a fitted  wooden cover, or positioned in a more secure purpose based area. If there is time, the student might be shown how to scrape, as Johnmcc69 mentioned, though not necessarily to do the whole repair, as they would not be competent and would be diverted from other issues perhaps more engaging. I hope you don't find a micrometer being used as a clamp! Paul Gough 

[Jo]

Does he own a nice car? Maybe you should have told him to bring his cutter with him out to his car put it on the bonnet of his car and show you again what he was doing..... Let him explain why it was not a good idea to do it on his vehicle 

Then follow it up with a week of responsibility for caring for your surface plate until it was spot on again 

Jo

P.S. My nephew tried using one of my Micrometre's as a clamp Thankfully he didn't have enough strength to really damage it but I had to show him and repeat the instructions 5 times before he used it the right way. 

[steamer]

All good answers!    I did brief think of punching holes in his car hood....but I didn't....Yes there should be a fitted cover on the surface plate.    I don't think that would have stopped him though

I explained what the "Pink Rock" was and why what he was doing probably just disposed of $1000.   I told him I was upset, but I can't get mad at you because your ignorant.   You don't know...but you're about to find out!    I had him answer these questions:


Pennence:

Who was  Joseph Whitworth?
 
Who was Henry Maudsley?
 
What is the Whitworth 3 plate method?
 
Please Read  “The evolution of Precision Tools”  by Eric Weinhoffer   it’s a short read…
 
A 1 page response to the above will be sufficient
 
Have a good weekend
 
Dave


He did that, I'll share it when I have it to hand....and he appologized.   He also had his uhmm  Supervisor read his work....I told him     Good!..

It worked, I got through to him..and he's listening


Paul....I'll make a cover for it.

Dave

[steamer]

I guess it's time to learn how to "scrape"...

Oh I wish I had the time to wait for that!....Good answer!

[b.lindsey]

Our approaches were close then...though I admit I also had Jo's idea too as to doing it on his shiny new car hood (bonnet). Well not making him actually do it, but listening to his reasons for not doing so and then relate those back to the surface plate.  Hmmmmm… a pink plate too....pricey but nice!!  Looking forward to reading his "paper."

Bill

[Lew Hartswick]

Wellll!  I could point out that a Surface Plate should have a cover on it when not in use.  And that the introduction to the shop should insure that the "newcomer" is made to understand that the "device" under that cover is a PRECISION instrument.  But won't do it just now. :-)
   ...lew...

[Tennessee Whiskey]

I’m a wee bit late here, but: I agree Dave, they are intellectually smart and common sense stupid. I get what Zee is saying about us assuming they should know what we know, but, I can’t buy into that argument wholeheartedly. Now, thinking back to my youth and probably most of yours; would we have done something like that or recognized that the pretty pink stone could have possibly meant something and asked somebody( he wasn’t a first or eighth grader) . If my memory serves me correctly, I started a thread that became locked over the lack of common sense and basic education of our youth. And on this ninth day of August, I’ll once again say that, unequivocally, for the most part, it isn’t the kids fault, it’s piss poor parenting. I’ll guarantee you that had William been in that kids position, he would asked somebody if he could use the plate for that purpose, or what should he use: it’s all about their raising. On the other hand; I have a staff that is mostly in their twenties to forties, and they break and destroy stuff on what seems like a daily basis. I have started to post, in their break area, the invoices of the stuff they broke and had to be replaced, the utilities bill, and the workmans comp insurance bill: I then explain that these things are a given, and to insure profits to the point that they can get a raise, these costs must be kept down. So, what happens this morning: one of the older girls puts a $300 tomato slicer on the edge of a table, unsupported, and it fell to it’s demise. I guess it’s just me, but, sometimes I wonder if nobody gives a rat’s donkey about anything anymore. In the way I deal with it: let’s just say that the reason I drinks a wee bit 

Eric

[mklotz]

Wellll!  I could point out that a Surface Plate should have a cover on it when not in use.  And that the introduction to the shop should insure that the "newcomer" is made to understand that the "device" under that cover is a PRECISION instrument.  But won't do it just now. :-)
   ...lew...

Well said, lew.

Making the cover with a 45 degree inclined "roof" prevents it from becoming a work surface. and makes the warnings inscribed on the roof more visible.

Granite is often mildly radioactive so a warning along the lines of...

Radiation badges must be worn within 50 feet of this tool.

while not totally accurate, can work well to keep the ignorant at bay.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

Should there also be a Prop 65 label Marv? And oh yeah Dave, be sure when he turns in his paper, you reward him with some type of achievement award. I’m gonna shut up or this thread will be locked 

Eric

[Shadow]

Agreeing with all the above I may have added that the leather punch is now also ruined and the best backing would be the end grain of a wood block.

I service and repair microscopes. At the states largest hospital was a six headed scope the had the left side removed by me some time ago. Recently the right side was removed and was put somewhere. The scope was moved to a newly remodeled area next to the gross room and the right side was put on the left side with double the connectors and jammed together most likely by some of the resident doctors. There was a complaint that they were having problems seeing on the scope and I investigated. I was not able to rectify the problem. I found out later that it had been dropped on the floor. No one would tell anybody. Replacement parts were about $6K. I suggested that no one not trained be allowed to move microscope equipment. The decree came down from administration attaching my email. There is now only one other that can assemble scopes. After all, they are just a big Lego set aren't they?

[zeeprogrammer]

I get what Zee is saying about us assuming they should know what we know, but, I can’t buy into that argument wholeheartedly.

??? That's not at all what I said. Obviously the younger ones can't know what the older ones do. There's that whole 'experience' thing.
Anyone thinking they should know what we know would be more than silly.
What I said is that younger generations may be getting undeserved hard knocks.

End of reply.  I don't want the following rant to be taken as directed to anyone in particular (just to everyone in general  ).

I do believe there's a difference in what different generations think is interesting or important. Who are we to say what's important to them?
I do believe there's a difference in what different generations think because of the times they grow/grew up in.
As an example, just my having been a military brat, in Europe, seeing what WWI and WWII did, affected me. Today's generation...not so much. How can I blame them?

Who here didn't have grand-parents or parents that didn't agree with what you were doing?
I could (stupidly) argue that the only common thing between generations is the sound of 'tsk-tsk' from the older to the newer.

Every generation new technology is provided. The older generation may question it. The younger generation may embrace it. And the cycle begins again.

And then there's the thought..."We all forget what we didn't know.".

I suspect most of us, in looking back at our childhood, probably think we were dumb as rocks compared to what we've learned and experienced by now.

I may come across a little sensitive. It bugs me to lump an entire group of people together. I have two daughters...most people would say, because of their age, they are millennials and because of that, are thought of less. Well...I couldn't ask for better kids with a sense of responsibility, empathy, respect, kindness, drive,...etc.

And I know their friends. Same thing.

Remember the days when our generation started growing their hair out? Growing beards? Fighting for whatever freedoms we thought were being suppressed?

We all needed help as we grew up. And if you think you didn't...you've forgotten. All that can be said is you may have needed less.

As I said, this little rant isn't against anyone. I just get tired of people judging an entire group of people based on...whether the few or the many...but not all.

[kuhncw]

Well said, Zee.

I especially liked your comment about different things being important to different generations.

Chuck

[10KPete]

Well said, very well said Zee. 

Pete