What do you think about your shop equipment

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

Hello everybody,

What would you do? Here is a hypothetical question / situation. I know how hard all of us try to make each piece of equipment esthetically and cosmetically perfect which reflects the pride in our hobby. How do you feel about your shop equipment?

1) If you had a chance to buy a brand new lathe in perfect condition, not a scratch or mark on it as expected for a new machine for $3,000.00.

Or

2) Same machine from the same manufacturer but with some visible problems with the painted surface. This is a powder coated finish with large visual pieces missing, some large blisters with a cracked surface and of course not sure of more problems that cannot be seen. The dealer offers this machine to you for $2,000.00.

You can but do not have to give any reason, which one would you buy, #1 or #2?

Thanks for your input,
Thomas

[crueby]

I dont care much about surface finish (though its fun to be the one who puts all the nicks and scratches into it), though I would be worried about how it got that beat up - fall off the truck a couple times, another machine fall on it, what? If the powder coat was just botched, that is one thing, but if it got knocked about enough to chip it off, I'd worry about alignments and bends.

[b.lindsey]

Personally I would opt or the one in the near perfect condition. That could change however based on the type of machine and the price differential.

Bill

[zeeprogrammer]

Given my lack of experience in dealing with machine problems, I'd want to opt for #1.

Also, without certain information, I would probably opt for #1. Said information being things like a) same warranty? b) reputation of dealer to help with problems and c) assuming this isn't a machine that can be easily boxed up and shipped for repair...how close the dealer or their repair people are.

If I had the experience and felt the dealer backs up their products that would satisfy me...then I might go for the #2 and use the saved money for other goodies.

But...you kind of nail it with the 'esthetically and cosmetically perfect which reflects the pride in our hobby'...I'd still go for #1. If I couldn't afford it...I might look at something else.

In case I come across wishy-washy...it's #1.

That's just me.

[toolznthings]

If your limited on repair experience or the availability and cost of parts I would go for #1.  These are things to check on,
especially parts.

[Mcgyver]

I know how hard all of us try to make each piece of equipment esthetically and cosmetically perfect

We do? Not this guy.  I work hard to get my machinery mechanically perfect, as good or better than factory including reconditioning via scraping.  Its all functional but rarely would I bother to paint.  With chips and coolant the paint ends up looking like crap in year anyway so its just not worth it.  The exception is the little swiss machines, but they're more like decoration than real machine tools (did I just say that?  lol).

Stuff I make otoh, I strive for pleasing aesthetics. 

I'm putting a 10ee back together soon.....haven't decided whether to paint or not.  Bit of a waste of time on one hand, but they are one nice looking bit of machinery all dolled up

[propforward]

It would depend on the nature of the damage in option 2. If I felt it was just poorly treated surfaces before painting, I might well go for option 2. If it looked like it was from a drop, or some other major impact, then I would pass on option 2.

You can buy some good tooling for $1000, so I for sure would weigh up the cosmetic damage carefully. If I could convince myself it really was just cosmetic - I'd rather have the 1000 bucks in my bank account than theirs.

[Baner]

Like everyone else I'd want to know the damage was only cosmetic. If that was the case definitely #2. $1000 worth of tooling will last longer than the pristine paint job.

Dave.

[Kim]

Me too.  If the damage was only cosmetic, AND it still came with the same warranty as new (and if I trusted them to stand behind it) then I'd go for option 2.  I know I'd be putting dings like that in the finish the first time I dropped something on it (or more likely, as I'm setting it up in my shop).  So, I'd use that $1K for other cool gadgetry.

But of course, you do what makes you feel best about it.  We all have different things that float our boat in this hobby

Kim 

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

Hello everyone,

Thanks to everybody for your views. This is obviously a tough decision by the close opinions shared so far. When I pay with my hard earned money for something, I do expect to get a product that is 100% in all respects. I spend a great deal of time in my shop cleaning up and maintaining all of the equipment. I am one of those folks that clean a drill bit right after using it and before returning it to the holder.

Again thanks for sharing your opinions.
Have a great day,
Thomas

[Stuart]

Thanks nice to know I am not the only one that give the drill bits a brush off ,same with the lathe tools they get the brush off

Difficult to comment on machine condition unless you have hands on with some gauges , good paint is nice but mechanical condition is far more important in a used machine , yes I am aware that the paint work can give an indication of how it was looked after , but only if it’s the original paint job

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

Thanks nice to know I am not the only one that give the drill bits a brush off ,same with the lathe tools they get the brush off

Difficult to comment on machine condition unless you have hands on with some gauges , good paint is nice but mechanical condition is far more important in a used machine , yes I am aware that the paint work can give an indication of how it was looked after , but only if it’s the original paint job

Hello Stuart,

Your footnote "My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish" explains your view and I am right there with you.

I try and keep all my equipment and tools looking new and I think it is worth the small amount of effort.

Thank you and have a great day,
Thomas

[jadge]

The original question isn't really comparing like for like, in that the second offering not only has tatty paint but may be mechanically suspect. In that case I'd take the first, but if the second option was mechanically sound I'd take it instead. I don't give two hoots about how my machines look; they get worked hard to make parts, which is what it's all about. I clean ways and oil regularly but I never worry about cosmetic issues.

All my machines, apart from the CNC mill, were secondhand when I acquired them, so were less than perfect cosmetically. In some cases they have quite a lot of backlash too. But that doesn't matter, I can still make accurate parts, better than a thou if I'm careful.

The new CNC mill now looks quite tatty, although it is still in good shape mechanically. The look is mostly due to the paint not reacting well with flood coolant. Thats a manufacturing issue rather than a user one.

I expect people would have a blue fit if they saw my rather untidy workshop. 

Andrew

[steamer]

The cost of repairing a lathe, in time and money, can be non-trivial.     I've rebuilt my lathe, and posted the rebuild here...If I had to do it again, I'd do it, not because of the cost savings, but for the experience...then again.   If I was looking to use a lathe to make parts, I'd go option 1 every time.


Love my SB...but it was a lot of work.

Dave

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

The original question isn't really comparing like for like, in that the second offering not only has tatty paint but may be mechanically suspect. In that case I'd take the first, but if the second option was mechanically sound I'd take it instead. I don't give two hoots about how my machines look; they get worked hard to make parts, which is what it's all about. I clean ways and oil regularly but I never worry about cosmetic issues.

All my machines, apart from the CNC mill, were secondhand when I acquired them, so were less than perfect cosmetically. In some cases they have quite a lot of backlash too. But that doesn't matter, I can still make accurate parts, better than a thou if I'm careful.

The new CNC mill now looks quite tatty, although it is still in good shape mechanically. The look is mostly due to the paint not reacting well with flood coolant. Thats a manufacturing issue rather than a user one.

I expect people would have a blue fit if they saw my rather untidy workshop. 

Andrew

Hi jadge,

My fault that I did not make it clear, that the only problem was in the bad paint and not in the function/operation.

Thanks for you input and have a great day,
Thomas

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

The cost of repairing a lathe, in time and money, can be non-trivial.     I've rebuilt my lathe, and posted the rebuild here...If I had to do it again, I'd do it, not because of the cost savings, but for the experience...then again.   If I was looking to use a lathe to make parts, I'd go option 1 every time.


Love my SB...but it was a lot of work.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Well you have one of the best machines on the market in the South Bend and they are no doubt worth the time and effort to rebuild when needed.

Like you and the other hobbyist here on the forum, we do not build "machines/engines/etc" for resale but for our love of the challenge. And we most likely wind up making "things" a little better than what manufactures sell.

Thanks again Dave, I appreciate your opinion.
Have a great day,
Thomas

[Florian Eberhard]

Hi Thomas

Like it has been said, I would also make up the decisison by judging how the geometry and the general mechanical condition of the lathe is.
If the geometry on #2 is as good as #1 then definitely #2 - otherwise you would have to decide on what the problem was;
- Any misalignment of the tailstock that can't be adjusted
- straightness of the bed (which could be checked with a high precision spirit level)
- runout of the main spindle
- Any cracks?

Florian

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

Hi Thomas

Like it has been said, I would also make up the decisison by judging how the geometry and the general mechanical condition of the lathe is.
If the geometry on #2 is as good as #1 then definitely #2 - otherwise you would have to decide on what the problem was;
- Any misalignment of the tailstock that can't be adjusted
- straightness of the bed (which could be checked with a high precision spirit level)
- runout of the main spindle
- Any cracks?

Florian

Hi Florian,

Yes that would be a good assessment to consider especially for the physical condition. I do understand and agree that the "looks"/cosmetics is just that and it plays no roll in the accuracy. However, when buying a new piece of equipment I expect everything to be correct.

Thanks for you feedback and have a great day,
Thomas

[Brian Rupnow]

I would go for the number 1 option and pay the $3000. I would suspect that other things of a mechanical nature would be wrong with the poorly painted one. For a very large portion of my life I was poorer than dirt, and had to fix up old crappy machinery because that was all I could afford. Now I would gladly pay the price for the well painted one.---Brian

[Ye-Ole Steam Dude]

I would go for the number 1 option and pay the $3000. I would suspect that other things of a mechanical nature would be wrong with the poorly painted one. For a very large portion of my life I was poorer than dirt, and had to fix up old crappy machinery because that was all I could afford. Now I would gladly pay the price for the well painted one.---Brian

Hello Brian,

I understand 100% what you have stated. Sometimes it is money wise to pay the higher price.

Thanks Brian.
Have a great day,
Thomas

[Flyboy Jim]

The question I would have to ask myself is: How long will it take #1 to look like #2? i.e. Is #2 a new machine that had a poorly prepped surface that got like that from just sitting? If that's the case.......how long will it take #1, from the same manufacturer, to look the same way?

Jim

[steamer]

The cost of repairing a lathe, in time and money, can be non-trivial.     I've rebuilt my lathe, and posted the rebuild here...If I had to do it again, I'd do it, not because of the cost savings, but for the experience...then again.   If I was looking to use a lathe to make parts, I'd go option 1 every time.


Love my SB...but it was a lot of work.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Well you have one of the best machines on the market in the South Bend and they are no doubt worth the time and effort to rebuild when needed.

Like you and the other hobbyist here on the forum, we do not build "machines/engines/etc" for resale but for our love of the challenge. And we most likely wind up making "things" a little better than what manufactures sell.

Thanks again Dave, I appreciate your opinion.
Have a great day,
Thomas

No worries....it's a surprisingly  personal question, because we do what we do as enthusiasts.   If we were trying to make a buck....The extra grand is in the noise..   A couple of tight tolerance jobs done on a $3000 lathe and it's paid for.    If I was trying to make money I'd be out of my mind not to spend the extra 1000.

Dave