Author Topic: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.  (Read 932 times)

Offline geoff5269

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« on: June 07, 2018, 12:26:28 PM »
I bought an old copy of Model Engineer no 4038  1997 with this picture on the cover thinking there might be a build series inside, but there wasn't.
It was made by John Cogden of City of Sunderland M.E.S. and I thought it quite interesting with it's rotary valves.
Does anyone know if this is a published design or not.
Geoff

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11470
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 01:00:24 PM »
Its based on the 1893 Musgrave Non Dead Centre twin Cylinder inverted Compound Steam Engine at the Bolton Steam Museum.

I have not seen the design for the model published the museum may be able to help you. As it won a bronze medal it may well be a one off.

Edit: A similar engine with castings was available from Lothar Matrian (Matrian-damp@doton.net +49 231/71 49 88)  build published in ME 2009. The GA in ME 4350 page 513 is probably sufficient to build one out of bar stock if you cannot contact Lothar.

Jo
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:09:59 PM by Jo »
Usus est optimum magister

Online Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5724
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 01:42:20 PM »
Yes as Jo says if you can't get hold of him and I have heard people don't get anything from that e-mail address recently then the GA and the photos in the 3 part series should be enough to come up with something from scratch.

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11470
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 01:51:02 PM »
Some more pics of one of Lothar's Musgrave engines are here: https://matthes.the-steamers.ch/matthes25/index.php/multimedia/fotos/meine-modelle/18-musgrave-von-lothar-matrian

As Andreas has made one it might be worth seeing if he can help you contact Lothar

Jo
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 01:54:19 PM by Jo »
Usus est optimum magister

Offline steam guy willy

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 02:02:28 PM »
Nice engine ..cunning use of single crank for twin cylinders  Memo to self, btw ...'put some more hours into my engine build ' also It would be good to have a data base of these copies of engines that are in museums. !! Like the Bridewell ,Hedley Cambridge and Beeleigh... Also it would be nice to have videos of these model engines running under steam at the museums to show to the public .

Online Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5724
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 02:50:00 PM »
Maschinen im Modellau 06/2007 has an article about the engine by Lothar himself. If your German is upto it.

Offline Craig DeShong

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 233
  • Raleigh,NC. USA
    • Lauson small engines
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 02:53:37 PM »
Really neat design, if I ever build another steam engine I'll need to look into this further.
Craig

Offline b.lindsey

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12045
  • Dallas, NC, USA
    • Workbench-Miniatures
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »
Paul Jacobs also did a write up of this engine in the Steam & Stirling Engines Book 2, still available from Village Press. Paul had apparently made patterns and castings for his build, but I have never seen castings available for it. Even though utilizing castings, the drawings in the above book look detailed enough to fabricate from.

Bill

Online Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5724
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 03:18:19 PM »
Paul Jacob's one has been drawn and uploaded to Grabcad so you can download all the parts into your favorite CAD program :) Open up OK in Alibre and F360 for me including the full assembly

https://grabcad.com/library/musgrave-ndc-1-1/details?folder_id=1248518
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 03:21:30 PM by Jasonb »

Online Alyn Foundry

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
  • North Wales, Great Britain.
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 03:23:11 PM »
Hi All.

I may be able to help with the flywheel?

Picture of a " Victorian " era made pattern with individual cores to produce the square spoke.

It measures approximately 8 and 3/8" diameter and 7/8" deep.

Cheers Graham.

Online Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5724
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 03:24:38 PM »
Now that would make a NICE sized engine :)

Offline geoff5269

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 08:18:04 PM »
Well that is a wonderful response, I thought someone would know and it seems many of you like the look of this one.
I have something to go on now.
Thanks Geoff

Online Alyn Foundry

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
  • North Wales, Great Britain.
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2018, 02:38:08 PM »
Now that would make a NICE sized engine :)

It did!!

    ;)

Online Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5724
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2018, 03:10:21 PM »
Don't let Peter (Gasmantle) see that he will want one and I expect our resident Trolly Dolly will too.

Online Alyn Foundry

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
  • North Wales, Great Britain.
Re: Do you know this engine, Verticle Twin with rotary valves.
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2018, 03:34:24 PM »

It did!!

    ;)

Well....

That's the Alyn Number 1V, our only venture into the " Steam " market, in fact it's the only one in existence.

The engine was built from a set of Victorian/Edwardian patterns recovered from the Uppingham School workshops nearly 30 years ago.

All the wooden patterns have been converted into metal ones ( apart from the flywheel ) and I also have a horizontal base to make a 1H version.

Cheers Graham.