Author Topic: Zee Needs Popcorn  (Read 57313 times)

Offline gary.a.ayres

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #210 on: July 25, 2018, 06:15:51 AM »
Steam chest looks good!

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #211 on: July 26, 2018, 12:56:53 AM »
Thanks Gary. Brushing off the body isn't so much a problem as the stuff that adheres to the sole.

I was reading Thomas's thread on installing the DROs onto his new mill and the drilling/tapping adventures he had.
It made me think about taps again.

Taper, Plug, Bottoming. For some sizes...not all 3 seem available...or not at a price I'm comfortable with.

Lately...in brass...I haven't bothered with anything but bottoming. Seems to work just fine.

So what's the deal? Why bother with a taper tap at all?
Is it all about getting it straight?
Why not plug then bottom?
Or just go to bottom?
Or is it the quality of taps I'm getting? Some of the bottom taps look chamfered for 2, if not 3, threads?

Just something whirling around in the old head.

Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline crueby

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #212 on: July 26, 2018, 01:13:21 AM »
Good questions. I have been using the taper ones, assumed that it would start straighter (experience show mostly -er, not always straight). Found that if I need it bottom tapped, it works fine to follow the taper with one of the broken off taper taps I kept. Works fine for the couple of threads.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #213 on: July 26, 2018, 01:31:56 AM »
I should be a a bit more clear. Threading into a blind hole would certainly seem to call for a bottoming tap at some point.
Threading into a through hole...not so sure. A bottoming tap isn't necessary (unless there's not enough space for the tap to get through it all.)
I guess I'm questioning the need for a full set of taps.
Isn't a plug and bottoming tap enough?
What does a taper tap bring to the party?

Speaking of parties...less than a week to Jo's retirement party.  :pinkelephant:

For Eric...and less than 24 hours to my next (nightly) "I"m retired party!".


Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #214 on: July 26, 2018, 02:03:38 AM »
Did I miss something Zee. Did Jo announce her retirement and I missed it??

Bill

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #215 on: July 26, 2018, 02:19:51 AM »
Did I miss something Zee. Did Jo announce her retirement and I missed it??

I can't address whether you missed something Bill... ;D

I believe Jo is retiring the 31st, next Tuesday.

I intend to party that day regardless.

P.S. Check the shout area.
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #216 on: July 26, 2018, 02:46:04 AM »
I guess I missed it too?

Dave

Offline b.lindsey

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #217 on: July 26, 2018, 02:54:56 AM »
Ah yes, I don't normally have that turned on. Now we can focus on Cletus  :whoohoo:

Bill

Offline Kim

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #218 on: July 26, 2018, 04:54:48 AM »
Hi Zee,

For cutting taps, you can get a three types of taps (plug, taper, and bottoming) for reasonable prices from Victor: https://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Hand-Taps-NC-and-NF/1250.html

I'm sure they're low cost import taps, but I've used them and my experience has been OK.
I prefer the forming taps.  I feel that you have more support for the whole tap w/o the flutes, and I've broken far fewer of them (though I have broken one before). Victor doesn't sell form taps.

Kim

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #219 on: July 26, 2018, 05:02:33 AM »
Thanks Kim! I hadn't come across them before
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Online Jasonb

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #220 on: July 26, 2018, 07:02:26 AM »
The taper tap will remove the metal is several shallow depth cuts eg it takes about 6 turns until cutting fill depth, a plug will try to take it all of in one go so meeds more effort which with a small tap can break it.

If you are tapping straight after drilling so the spindle is above the hole then the Spiral Flute taps are good as they bring the swarf up out of the hole so no risk of packing it in around the tap, one will do as they only have a short lead taper.





Online steamer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #221 on: July 26, 2018, 11:05:32 AM »
And don't forget the Gun tap,   It is fantastic for through holes, especially in tough materials, as it pushes the chips forward ahead of the tap

( do an image search and you'll see what I mean.     2 flute)

Dave
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Damned ijjit!

Online kvom

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #222 on: July 26, 2018, 12:28:03 PM »
Or you could use form taps that create no swarf at all.

Offline zeeprogrammer

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #223 on: July 26, 2018, 01:45:45 PM »
The taper tap will remove the metal is several shallow depth cuts eg it takes about 6 turns until cutting fill depth, a plug will try to take it all of in one go so meeds more effort which with a small tap can break it.

I should have realized that.

The spiral taps look interesting.

Whew...loads of choices.

@Kirk: Form taps would require more effort right? How are they in 303 stainless?
Carl (aka Zee) Will sometimes respond to 'hey' but never 'hey you'.
"To work. To work."
Zee-Another Thread Trasher.

Offline Kim

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Re: Zee Needs Popcorn
« Reply #224 on: July 26, 2018, 02:43:23 PM »
I would think form taps would work just fine in 303.  Here's a little blurb from the MSC site on the form taps (I added the red highlighting).
Kim

Quote
Where to Use Thread Forming Taps
Materials particularly well suited for thread forming include aluminum, brass, copper, lead, stainless steel, carbon steel, cast steel, leaded steel and zinc. In general, any material which produces a stringy chip is a good candidate for cold forming threads. If the chips are powdery, the material may be too brittle. Forming taps generate threads without producing chips. The threads produced are much stronger than those created by cut taps because of the displacements of the grain of the metal in the workpiece. Cutting taps produce chips which may interfere with the tapping process.

Thread forming taps are also known as: Fluteless Taps, Roll Taps & Cold Forming Taps.

Major Advantages to Thread Forming
1. Chipless Tapping – no chip removal problems in blind holes
2. Stronger Threads – the grain flow of formed threads follows the contour of the thread in steel and stainless steel, resulting in greater thread strength
3. Better Thread Gaging – forming taps create their own lead therefore the possibility of producing oversized threads is greatly reduced
4. Stronger Taps – the absence for the need for flutes results in a stronger more solid tap
5. Longer Tap Life – forming taps last 3 to 20 times longer because they have no cutting edge to dull
6. More Efficient Production – longer tap life, less tap breakage and faster tapping speeds (up to 2x faster than cutting taps)
7. Ideal for Non-Lead Screw Tappers – The ability to form their own lead makes forming taps well suited for NC machines or other machines without lead screws

Guidelines For Using Thread Forming Taps
Pre-Tap Hole Size - Thread forming taps require a larger pre-tap hole size than a cutting tap. Tapping with too small of a pre-tap hole size results in excessivetap wear, torque and possible tap breakage
Lubrication - Forming Taps require good lubrication. Cutting oils are generallypreferred because of their lubricity compared to water soluble coolants
Styles - Standard, pipe and STI
https://www.mscdirect.com/basicsof/thread-forming-taps

 

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