Author Topic: Stuart Victoria help needed  (Read 999 times)

Offline Ramon

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Stuart Victoria help needed
« on: May 15, 2018, 05:06:13 PM »
Hello guys - I'm really hoping someone can help me here

I visited a good friend this morning - the one who helped me install my mill a while back. Sadly he has not long with us due to the dreaded PC. He bought many years ago an old Stuart Victoria that is, lets say, built in a rather mediocre fashion that he would like to pass on to his son in law. It is not in running order though turns over well enough and despite some serious play in the valve linkage looks as if it should. He has asked me if I could get it running for him. I've taken a look - not good ::) but I'll try my best.

Typically I disposed of my well faded but readable, Victoria drawings, no more than a month ago on a clear up.

Before I make a calculated guess at what it should be can anyone tell me the following three things

Dimensions of the porting in the valve face - width of slots and spacing (I know they are cast in but the desired dimension as drawn)

The dimension of the cavity in the valve face fore and aft and the dimension of the valve face overall fore and aft

If anyone has a set of these drawings and could just post these dims I really would appreciate it.

Regards - Tug

PS I really hate to say this but time is of the essence - there's not long to get this done if you see what I mean :(
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Online Jasonb

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 05:15:08 PM »
Ramon, I can help you out with the Beam drawings which like several of the engines share the same cylinder etc so that will hopefully do you unless you get a better offer. Will e-mail them to you.

J

Offline Ramon

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 05:32:30 PM »
Thanks Jason but just to say - all sorted  :ThumbsUp:

Remembered after posting a friend had built one years ago so a call later I have all the info - thanks again

Ramon
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Online Jo

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 07:48:25 PM »
Hi Tug,

Cylinder and valve as requested..

Jo
Usus est optimum magister

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 07:55:47 PM »
Sounds like you have it sorted  :ThumbsUp:. Now, hereís what is ďcreepyĒ . I just started watching at about 3:00am this morning, a Victoria build by Keith Appleton, and gave thought to purchasing the castings. Gotta go, off to buy lotto tickets: this is an omen  :old:

Cletus

Online Jasonb

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 08:07:03 PM »
Well if you win the lotto you may just be able to afford a set of Stuart castings :Lol:

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 08:22:09 PM »
Jason, when I looked this morning, at closing exchange rates from yesterday, it looked like about $326 of our good old freedom dollars. I didnít check into the over the water shipping. If you look at the prices from PM and what few casting suppliers we have on this side of Harry and Meghan  :Jester:, it ainít all that bad.

Cletus

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 08:32:07 PM »
That seems cheap Cletus, in the UK after VAT is added the cost is £283 so with a bit more added to cover postage to a UK buyer it is about £300

Offline Tennessee Whiskey

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 08:37:36 PM »
I didnít figure in the VAT. Iíve never bought from the U.K , so didnít know if it was applicable. Todayís score has the pound at a 1.35 leader to our dollar

Cletus

Online Jasonb

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 08:44:06 PM »
Vat is not applicable in your case but don't know if you will have to add state tax when it gets to your end and whatever trade tarrif  the wise one has decided to charge

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 08:51:36 PM »
I've just tried a test as a potential USA buyer, the castings are £236 (no VAT) + postage at £60 so that's £296 unless there is an additional tax on goods at the other end.


Offline Ramon

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 08:55:58 PM »
Hi Guys

Thanks for your help Jason and Jo, much appreciated :ThumbsUp: Sadly, especially given the circumstances,  I don't think this attempt to help my friend is going to have a positive outcome.......

The valve cavity had been left as cast and under-size and was also offset to the outer fore and aft edges (also left as cast) and roughly 2mm too long :o - There was no way you could achieve an even opening at either end - it was one end of the stroke or the other only  :-\

Re-machined the valve but from here on it just got worse. Fitting the steam chest cover had the effect of tightening things up to create distortion and some terrible drag - I don't think this engine has ever run. Removing the two hold down bolts at the rear of the cylinder the wringing of the cylinder end as the flywheel is turned has to be seen to be appreciated.

I'm not sure what will happen to this one - in my opinion it would require completely stripping down to the component parts and rebuilding, probably having to remake many parts as it goes - unfortunately I'm not in the position to take on at this point in time - I fear my friend is going to be rather disappointed  :(

Whiskey - the Victoria is a very nice engine overall. The castings do seem expensive (to us over here) but the design is sound and runs well. Apart from the Flywheel however it would be very straightforward to make the major parts from solid. When I made my twin version I only bought the bedplates, cylinders, steam chests and flywheel - that was back when Stuarts were at Hendon and before everything took that first major price hike.

Thanks again guys :ThumbsUp:

Regards  - Tug




"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 09:10:38 PM »
Hi Tug,

Do you have photos of your twin Victoria ? I'd be interested to see it  :)

Offline Ramon

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 10:31:11 PM »
Hello Peter - I have just a few which I'm happy to post below. I sold the engine on quite a while back - maybe six or seven years ago so all I have are these pics of it that were took just before selling. Hope they are of use to you.

I ran it at shows on steam for several years  before turning to air - made for a much more relaxing time. Eventually I just got fed up displaying it and so it sat under wraps until I finally decided to part with it

Regards - Tug















"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Offline Gas_mantle

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 10:55:14 PM »
Thanks Tug, that's a superb engine - a Victoria on Steroids  :)

It's really some acheivement to make one like that from just a few basic castings then scratch build the rest to that level of detail  :)

Online Jasonb

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 07:25:01 AM »
That's nicely done with a lot of additional details as we should expect from you.

I wonder how much running it would actually get when passed onto his son in law after the initial couple of runs when first recieved, maybe a quick clean up so it can go into a glass fronted cupboard to help keep the dust off would be adequate.

Offline Ramon

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 10:39:31 PM »
Hi Guy's - thought you might like to hear of a reasonably positive outcome  :)

I went into the workshop this morning with a very despondent feeling not relishing the thought of having to tell my friend that this was a real no-no short of some serious work :(

Despite those misgivings I reassembled the cylinder as best the misalignment would allow and made a better air connection. Thanks to Jason and Jo and my friend Barry I'd machined the valve cavity to print as well as bringing it in to the centre of the valve and then to the correct length.
The eccentric was set and the valve brought to as near equal opening as possible - air was applied and much to my surprise (due to the witnessed distortion) a power stroke but no return. After some checking it transpired that the valve was actually thicker than the steam chest  ::) and was being held by the steam chest cover so this was reduced in height by about .5mm . With some encouragement on the flywheel however it began to turn over on about 20 psi  - 1-2 revs at first then 3-5 then a few more then suddenly it broke into a steady run. A satisfying knock as the valve operating layshaft not only rotates but twists in a wringing fashion in it's bearing but it was running steady enough. I let it run all morning, plenty of oil and tweaking the odd nut (all square nuts BTW - a real pain with conventional spanners if awkward to get at. Whatever, after a return visit this afternoon friend Phil is happy and son in law even happier  :)

All's well that ends well eh?



Thanks again for the help Jason and Jo

Regards - Tug

PS I meant to say - the governor is decorative only but is effective  :-\ Once the speed reaches 'enough' the balls hit the flywheel to produce a pleasant warning ring  ;D

BTW it was originally positioned on that outer hole - impossible for it to be driven from the pulley. Given all the misalignment there was no way that was going to be stripped to reduce the length of the bar - not this week anyway  ;)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 10:46:57 PM by Ramon »
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)

Online Jo

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 07:16:14 AM »
Pleased to hear its running Tug :)

Those boxes of Corliss bits behind look a bit like the storage area for my Corliss..... ah the Corliss that's another engine I am putting off until I retire  :stir:

Jo
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Online Jasonb

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 07:22:17 AM »
A good outcome all round, I'm sure both your friend and his S-I-L will be happy to see it running warts and all and you are now able to get back to sticking your toothpics in place without loosing too much time.

Just goes to show that steam engines can be quite forgiving subjects and there is no need to get stressed out over impractical accuracies to be able to get a running engine that you can enjoy.

Offline Stuart

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 07:53:48 AM »
Great out indeed given the circumstances

I know were you are coming from like me you like it correct ,and it grinds your wheels if itís not ,and you have to put it right.

Stuart
My aim is for a accurate part with a good finish

Offline Ramon

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Re: Stuart Victoria help needed
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 09:53:40 AM »
Morning Jo, Jason and Stuart,

The request to help on this came out of the blue and at not a very convenient moment but I could not refuse given the circumstances  - the engine is not in a state I would have liked to returned but the remit was just to get it working.

Apparently Phil bought in some 20-25 years ago - in 'going condition' (hmm :ShakeHead:) and never ever got round to working on it. I would hazard a guess that it was built by someone with limited knowledge and fairly small resources. That's not to knock it as if that was the case then the outcome was commendable. I would also hazard a guess that give the poor alignment that it was 'run in' via an external source which has lead to the excessive wringing and bending of the valve linkage.

Son in Law is well pleased - has no previous knowledge of engines but told me he intends to run it and show it so maybe we get a new model engineer out of it which would be a nice outcome if so.

Thanks again for your help - I can now get back on the 'toothpicks' (they are precision machined ones you know Jason  :Lol:) in a week or so

Regards - Tug
"I ain't here for the long time but I am here for a good time"
(a very apt phrase - thanks to a well meaning MEM friend)